kepe it in their chests nor that it shulde be sent home to new maryed men and wemen to be receyued in seuerall nor that it shuld be ministred to babes and infa◅tes that knewe not what it ment nor that Inchaunters or Necromansers shoulde therby auaunt their detestable practises nor y t men shoulde therby discharg them selues from slaunder nor that it shuld be hanged before mens brestes and caried about as a shielde against the Deuel nor that it should be ministred vnto dead men or women ◅losed vp in theyr mouthes layd with them in theyr graues But y t such as bare the name of Chryst trusted to be saued by his bloude shoulde communicate together solace them selues in the remembraunce of his death This Christ himselfe hath instructed vs ▪ do this he saith in remembraunce of me Thys is the very true lawfull vse of the holy Communion of Christes body and bloud and all others are abuses We se therefore that albeit the sacrament be an holy thinge and an heauenly mistery yet that notwithstanding it may many waies be abused But what nede we so manye proues in a thinge that is so euident Saint Paule hymselfe saw the abuses thereof in his tyme. S. Paule hymself euen in the beginnyng of the Churche wythin forty yeares after Christes death withnesseth that euen then there were abuses crept into y ◠sacramēt and therfore repro◅eth the Corinthians And for redresse therof calleth them backe to the example fyrste institution of Christ. That same selfe thyng sayth he that I receyued of the Lord that I delyuered vnto you in suche sort as I had receyued it Let that be a paterne for you to folow Summe man perhappes wil heare reply notwithstanding the sacrament in it self either through the wickednes or through y e foly of man may be and haue benabused yet neyther was there euer nor can there be any such abuse in the masse For it standeth of foure special parts godly doctrine godly consecration godly receyuinge of the sacrament and godly prayers In conclusion it is so heauenly so godly a thing that no foly or wickednes can enter into it These thinges good brethern I know haue ben oftē times spoken out of such places as this is stoutly auoutched in your hearing And therfore after that the masse had ben once abolished by y ◠noble prince of godly memory kind Edward the sixt the next prince for that she knew none other religion aud thought well of y e thyng that she had ben so lōg trained in would nedes haue it put in vre again through all her dominions it was forthwith restored in lyke māner in all points as it had ben vsed before without any kynde of alteratiō or chaung as I beleue that theyr verye doinges therein might stand for proufe sufficient that neyther the masse it selfe nor any parsel or point therof had euer ben abused But alas what if they that most of all other defend the masse thēselues fynd faultes and abuses in y e masse Mark I pray you what I say what if the very mainteyners and proctours of the masse confesse plainly vnto the worlde in theyr bokes openly printed set abrode y t there haue ben be abuses errours in the Masse Albertus Pigghius the greatest piller of that parte in a litle trea◅ise that he writeth of the Masse hath these wordes Quod si qui abusus in rem sacratissimam saluberrimam irrepserunt vt irrepsisse plerosque non diffitemur scimus ad quem ad quos pertineat eosdem corrigere That is to say if there haue certein abuses crepte into y ◠holy and holsom thing that is the Masse as I graunt there haue crept in very manye yet we know to what man men the redresse thereof doth apperteine Here Pigg◅ius graunteth simply wythout colour that diuerse abuses haue at sundry tymes priuily crept into y ◠Masse And yet I beleue he was no such enemy to the cause that he would euer haue graūted somuch specially against y e same self thyng that he defended vnlesse he had knowen it perfectly to be true It any man doubt of this man Albertus Pigghius and knowe not hys authority nor what he was let hym vnderstand y t when I speake of him I speake of all for thys is he that all the rest haue chosen to follow as their captain The greatest learned mā as it is supposed and as he hymselfe thought that ◅uer wrote in y ◠quarrell He hath founde out errours and abuses in the masse and is not abashed opēly to confesse the same Of these errours I haue intended sumwhat to intreate at thys tyme not of all for that would be an infinite labour but of so many and so ta◅eforth as the tyme shal suffer me I wyll not here enter to speake eyther of transubstātiation either of the real presence eyther of y ◠sacrifice eyther of the comen sale or vtteraunce eyther of the superstitious ceremonies of the Masse which are for the most parte both verie vayne and also in maner wythout number Of these thinges I am content to disaduauntage myselfe at thys tyme and bryefly to touche two or thre pointes as of the latin tong wherin commenly the masse hath ben vsed of the Communion vnder one kynd of the Canon of the adoration of the sacramente and of the priuate masse And of these things I intēd to speak although not so largely and with so manye words as y ◠cause would require yet by Goddes grace so simply so truely that who so will be moued with truth or reason shal sone perceiue there hath ben abuses in the Masse And if there were but one of these abuses in it yet were it worthy to be spoken of and to be amēded But if we shall plainly see with our eyes that all the er rours disorders besyde a great number els whyche I wyllingly passe by haue ben in the masse O good bretherne let vs not then thinke that so many godly men in these our dayes haue spokēagainst it without cause First as touching y ◠vnknow◅n and straung tong y t hath ben vsed in the Masse S. Paules counsel and commaundement is in generall that what so euer is done or sayd in the congregation shoulde so be done and sayd that the hearets may haue confort thereby yelde thankes vnto God and saye Amen But the same saint Paul saith if thou make thy prayer in y ◠congregation with thy spirite or noyce of a straung wordes howe shal the vnlearned man thereunto saye Amen For he knoweth not what thou sayest For not withstādig thy praier perhappes be good pet hath the other no cōfort or profit by it And therefore he saith ▪ farther I had leuer vtter fyue words in the congregation wyth vnderstanding of my meaning so that the reast may haue instructiō therby then ten thousand wordes in a straunge knowen tong Saint
to be sente you an other answeare whiche vpon beâ—…ter aduise I thought good to staye I ment in both one thinge but my first was somdeale sower and woulde haue bene as bitter as a medicine or in tyme of Lent penaunce I striue with nature the les to offende you and so I trust you see cause to forgiue me if in any parte of my writing I seeme ouer â—…ager 24. Martij Henricus Cole ⧠The answere of Jo. Bisshop of Sarum vnto D. Coles second letter IN your second letters I finde manye wordes to litle purpose It had bene better for you to haue alleaged one sufficient authority wherby I mighte haue learned that I loked for For in my Sermon at Powles and els where I required you to bring forthe on your parte eyther sum Scripture or sum olde Doctour or sum auncient Councell or els sum alowed example of the Primatiue Church For these are good groundes to buylde vpon And I woulde haue merueiled y â— you brought nothing al this while soning y t I knew ye had nothyng to being But nowe for asmutche as you seâ—…e shiftes and will not cum to answere I count him vnwise that knoweth not your meaning Ye aske why ye shoulde be called obstinate Doubtles I haue a better opinion of you and trust ye be â—…ot so But if a man withstand an open trueth hauing nothinge wherwith to â—…efende him selfe I remit him to your owne iudgement whether he may be called obstinate or no You put me in remembraunce of mine office that for asmutch as I am a Bishoppe I shoulde be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ready to yelde accoÌ„pte of suche thinges as I teach I thanke God so I doo and haue done hitherto to my power bothe priuately and openly But if this be my dewtie required at my handes what priueledge haue you that you only may not alow one poore sentence to the confirmation of your learning â—…ou wold haue men thinke I flie answearinge bycause I am a Bishop This in logique is called Paralogismus A noÌ„ causa vt causa I alleaged the place audience where I spake not only mine office for that I thought it might appeare sum want of discretion to call y e doctrine into questioÌ„ which I knew was grounded vpoÌ„ god des worde and authorised and set forth by the â—…uenes Maiestye by the assent of the whole Realme But as touching my callyng I am not only readie to answeare any man in any thing that I professe but also vpon sufficient allegation as I haue promised very well content to yelde vnto you But I beseche you what reason of your faith in these maters gaue you sâ—…time when ye were inplace Scriptures doctours councelles ye had none as it now appeareth by your silence Therfore y e ground of your petswasion must then needes be Nos habemus legeÌ„ secunduÌ„ legeÌ„ c. You knowe what foloweth for as truely as god is god if ye wold haue vouchsaued to folow either y â— scriptures or y â— auncieÌ„t doctours Councels ye wolde neuer haue restored againe the Supremacye of Rome after it was once abolisshed or the priuate Masse or the Communion vnder one kinde â–ª 〈◊〉 â–ª It geueth you that I shoulde rest vpon the negatiue and 〈◊〉 put you to your proufes Wherin notwithstanding ye alleage against me the custome of the Schooles yet ye know Christ vsed the same kinde of reasoning in his schoole As wheÌ„ he said to the Pharisees Hoc Abraham non fecit thys thyng Abraham neuer did And agayne when he answeared them in the â—…ase of matrimonie A pâ—…incipio non fuit sic it was not so from the beginning he stode only vpon the negatiue â—…herein if the Pharisies had ben able to 〈◊〉 but one affirâ—…atiue eyther that Abraham had donne so or that the lawe of diuorse had bene so from the beginninge Christ w t hys negatâ—…ue might sone haue ben confounded Euen so when the Bishoppe of ConstaÌ„tinople had taken vpon hiâ—… to be â—…alled the vniveâ—…sal bishop of the whole Churche which title after warde the Bishop of Rome began to 〈◊〉 to himself for the 〈◊〉 of the same had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 disâ—…quieted and shaken the 〈◊〉 world but wheÌ„ the Bishop of Constantinople first begaÌ„ to vse this stile Gregorye being then the Bishop of Rome confounded hym only with the negatiue Nemo said he decessorum meorum hoâ—… profano vocabulo vti voluit none of my predecessours woulde euer vse this 〈◊〉 and lewâ—… name Lib. 4. Epist. 80. And â—…gain Epist. 92. Sancti ante legem Sancti in lege SaÌ„cti sub gratia omnes perficientes Corpus Domini in meÌ„bris sunt constituti At nemo se vniuersalem dici voluit The holye men before the law the holie meÌ„ vnder the lawe the holie men vnder the grace of the Gospel altogether making vp one bodie of the Lord are placed amoÌ„gest his members but none of them wold euer suffer hym self to be called vniuersall I haue chosen especially these exaÌ„ples bicause they seeme to serue me to double purpose Thus Gregorye reasoned theÌ„ as we do now only vpon the negatiue And if theÌ„ the Bishop of Constantinople had ben able to proue but one affirmatiue y â— any Bishop of Rome afore time had vsed y t stile or that euer any man other before the Law or vnder the lawe or vnder y â— Gospel had suffred him self to be called vniuersall Bishop then had Gregorie ben confounded But as touching the custome of the Scholes I trust ye haue not yet forgotteÌ„ that Aristotle geueth order to y â— opponeÌ„t in many cases to require an instaÌ„t as I do now at your hand And what is y â— els but in the deniall to defende the negatiue to driâ—…e the aduersarie to auouch the affirmatiue But y â— wil ye not do ye know why although ye dissemble it But sooner ye require to see our groundes And what better grouÌ„d can we haue on our side theÌ„ y t D. Cole the chiefest maÌ„ on y â— other side caÌ„ find no grounde to stande against vs He that will make any innoua tioÌ„ saye you must giue a reason of his doinges O maister Doctour this reason fighteth 〈◊〉 against your selfe For you haue 〈◊〉 and put awaye the most parte of the order of the primatiue church and yet ye neuer gaue anye good reason of your doinges You saye you are in possession No ye were sumtimes you are not now And when you were ye had no right title nor good euidence no more theÌ„ they that sumtime sate in Moses chayre or they that sayd Nos sumus filii AbrahaÌ„ we are the children of Abraham and thereby claymed theyr possession Therfore ye were possessores malae fidei and for that cause ye are now iustly remoued Now if ye thinke ye haue wroÌ„g shewe your euidence out of y â— doetours the Councelles or Scriptures that ye may haue your right and reentre I
places euen into mine own dioces yet not vnto me therby to discredit me in corners at my â—…irst cuming wherof I haue the greater cause to complain of your doynges ye made answere not onlye that it was your own but also y â— it was much abridged that y â— originall was twise asmuch Yf it be so the fault is your own that would so vnaduisedly bestowe your writinges As for my part as they came to me not by your sendinge but by very chaunce euen so did I cause them to be copied out iustly and truely without adding or diminishing of one letter and according haue I made out mine answere to the whole Nowe forasmuch as I vnderstand there 〈◊〉 certeine both honorable and worshipful y t would gladly haue our doinges to the print and so published these shal be to desire you for the bettering of your own cause to send me your own copie ful and large as ye say ye gaue it out at y e first y t I may do as I shal thinke good and you haue no cause to to think your self iniuried if I answer one parcell of your letters and not to the whole I pray you let me here from you with expeditioÌ„ for I mean plainly therfore haue caused the print to staie vpon your answere Thus I bid you farwell From Shireburn y e xxii of July An. 1560. Io. Sarum VNto this Letter D. Cole beynge bisides by messenger â—…arnestlye required would make no answere one waye or other Therfore vpon hys refusall it was thought good to answere his Letters as they were ⧠The Reply of the Bishop of Sarum to the Letter aboue written which D. Cole contrarie to euen dealing had geuen out and sent abroad not to the said Bishop to whom he wrote it but priuely and secretly vnto certain of hys own frendes THere came to my haÌ„bs of late by chaunce a Scroul set forthe in short broken sentences conteining an answer to the second Letters that I had sent vnto you before which as by certain familiar Phrases by that date by the subscription of your own name by other tokens appeared to me to be yours So by the vsinge ordering of thesame I had sum cause to think it shold not be yours especially for that beyng as it appeared writteÌ„ vnto me it was sent priuely abroad vnto others and not to me For I thought y â— you being a maÌ„ of this age credit would not haue bene ashamed of your own writinges or would haue concealed them froÌ„ him to whom you had directed theÌ„ or haue soght for a false light to set forth your matters in as MarchauÌ„tes sumtimes vse to do y â— better to vtter their sorie wares Moreouer I saw y t your words throughout were heaped vp with tauntes scornes and were somwhat to much steined with cholar to haue proceded froÌ„ a sober graue man as I euer toke you to be Thus being vncerteine of the trueth herein after I had sent ofteÌ„times to you to know whether you would auouch it for your own or no could neuer get word froÌ„ you by reason y â— you shifted your self would not be fouÌ„d I thoght it good to staie my selfe from answering vntil I might get certein knowledg of the authour At the last after I had assayed many waies could by no meanes hear froÌ„ you hauing no 〈◊〉 continuaunce in the Citie to staye the vntrue reportes which I herd werscattered by suÌ„ of your freÌ„ds I could not but before my departure hence make out mine answer vnto you as hauig cause to thinke the letters that were brought me should be his in whose name they were geuen abroad Firste where you haue made your answers seuerall set them so far of from the parcelles of my letters I gesse you did y t of very purpose that your reader might see your answer but not see what it was wherunto you answered Therefore I haue ioyned my sayinges your simply plainly both together without coulour or shadow that the indiffereÌ„t reader may haue all before his eyes and 〈◊〉 be y â— better able to iudg aright ¶ Sarum IN your second Letters I finde many words to small purpose It had bene 〈◊〉 better for you to haue alledged one sufficieÌ„t authority wherby I might haue learned that I loked for ¶ Cole IT liketh you thus to say that your Readers may thinke you touch me very sore where you discouer a great vntrueth in your wrytynge 〈◊〉 my purpose was to be taught to this mark onely I shot You for lack of good matter ansâ—… I speak not to the purpose not to your pur pose but to mine How oftentimes must I 〈◊〉 you I come not to teach but to learn The Reply of the Bishop of Sarum COntrarie to y â— Rueles of Rhetorik I sie you begin to 〈◊〉 and to enflame all your affections euen at the first Sobernes were much fitter for a doctor But your heats be such y t your freÌ„des haue shewed me you must be born w tal I neither discouer nor couer any vntrueth in my writing but as you know only vtter y â— very trueth For at Paules Crosse I required you or any of you to shewe the groundes of your religion if you had any that by indifferent conference the trueth the better might appear And this had bene to your purpose if ye had ment plainly to mine to But you run away in the myst and 〈◊〉 the net lest happely ye should be takeÌ„ and so purposly go about to blear your readers 〈◊〉 to couer the truth and hauing in very died nothing to alledg for your self yet ye make a countenaunce as though ye lackt nothig And so I grauÌ„t you folow your purpose and not mine Where you say ye cum only to learn and not to quarell he must niedes be your very frende y â— will beleue you Nowbeit the pretence of a learner may kepe your credite for a while saue you froÌ„ shewig what ye can say And therfore I read you vse it still But by your scoffes scornes it may pppeare you cum to controlle soner theÌ„ to learn God send vs both humbleâ—…esse of hart that we may content our selues to be taught ¶ Sarum IN my Sermons aswell at Powles Crosse as els where I required you to bryng forth of your parte eyther sum Scripture or sum olde Doctour or sum â—…ncient generall Councell or els sum â—…llowed example of y ◠〈◊〉 church For these are good groundes to builde vpon And I would haue merueiled that you broght forth nothing al this while sauing that I knewe you had nothing to bring ¶ Cole YOu require that is daungerous for me â—… you knowe Thereply Sarum 〈◊〉 it be daungerous to you bicause you stande bounde why do you not put it ouer to sum other of your syd that is not boâ—…d This shadow wil serue well before your â—…endes that will wink when you bid them
syde against theyr Princes But as I then neuer liked theÌ„ that drew their sword against their souerain eueÌ„ so now I pray god coÌ„fouÌ„d theÌ„ whosoeuer they be y t shal first begin the same What lawe ye ministred vs in those dayes I remit it vnto you that are a lawier But I am well assured ye shewed vs neither diuinitye nor humanitye But I pray you what law had ye to imprison sutche euen as had broken no lawe and so to kepe them in your cole houses in stokes and fetters with all extremitye and exueltye vntil ye had made a lawe for them and to do with them as Cyril saieth the Jewes did with Christ primum ligant deinde causas in eum quaerunt â–ª prius captuÌ„ habent quà m accusatum First they bind him fast saith Cyrill and theÌ„ they deuise matter agaiust hym They lay handes vpon him before any man accuse him What law had ye to burne the Quenes subiectes handes w t candelles or torches before they were condemned to dye by any law What law had ye to ascite a man to appeare peremptoriè at Rome within lxxx dayes and yet that not withstanding to kepe him still in prison in Oxforde and afterwarde for not appearinge at hys day at Rome to condemne hym there as obstinate Or what law had ye to put the same man to death against the expresse wordes of your own lawe after he had subscribed vnto you and was founde in no relapse I trust ye can say some what herein For that you being then a lawier and in commission had the execucion of y t law But I beleue when ye haue searched your bâ—…kes through ye shall fynde ye had not so much law as they that sayd Nos habemus legem secundum legeÌ„ debet mori Sarum WHere ye say our doctrine is yet in doubt I assure you to vs it is most certain and out of doubt But if ye for youre part be yet in doubt reason and charity would ye had been better resolued and qyut out of doubt before ye had dealt so unmercifully with your brethren ¶ Cole I Doubted more theÌ„ I do now ye geue me good cause to be well confirmed The reply Sarum THis is a faire shift of retorike when other help faileth you Euen thus the Pharises after they had ben loÌ„g in a mammering and in doubt of Christ at the last were fully confirmed and out of doubt and saied vnto him 〈◊〉 scimus te habere daemonâ—…um As if they shoulde then haue sayed vnto Christ as you say nowe to vs we doubted more before then we do nowe for nowe ye geue vs good cause to be well confirmed â–ª But if I haue confirmed you bringynge such proufes as ye are not able to answer how then thinke ye haue others cause to be confirmed at your handes that haue vsed suche extremity and yet ar able to bring nothing at all ¶ Sarum YE are bounde ye say and maye not dispute yet are ye not so bounde as ye haue bounde others But when 〈◊〉 wer at libertie and a 〈◊〉 disputation was graunted and offered at Westminster before the Quenes maâ—…esties moste honorable councell and the whole state of the Realm I pray you whether part was it that then gaue ouer And yet the ye knowe ye were not bounde onlesse it were to â—…lence because ye had nothing to say ¶ Cole AT Westminster we came to dispute were answered that there was non appointed wher we refused not to write neyther But when our boke could not be read as yours was we refused not vtterly to dispute but onely in the case if oure boke could not be suffered to be red as indiffereÌ„tly as yours was Now hardely weigh whether ye haue indifferently reported that we vtterly refused to dispute with you or no. The reply Sarum YE could not lightly haue gotten so many vntruethes together without sume stâ—…y Where ye saye ye were answered there was no disputation appointed at Westminster if I should aske you who made you that answer I rekeÌ„ ye would be to siek For I trust ye haue not yet forgotten that ye your selfe were the first man that began to dispute there that day spake there an whole houre together without interruption But I marueil ye say not that we of our part gaue you ouer and refused to dispute Ye say ye refused not to wryte your allegacioÌ„s and answeares as ye had promised to do and earnestly required it might be so and yet contrary to your request and promise ye could not begotten as ye know to writ one line Ye saye your boke could not be read as ours was yet ye knowe ye had no boke there to be read at all as we had As for the indifferent ordering and hearing of the matters I remit that to them that wer the orderers of it of whom ye can not in any wise complain but both your own and the hearers consciences must nedes accuse you The order of the disputaâ—…ion was that both partes shoulde the fyrst day bring in their assertion al in writing and that the nexte day eyther party should answer the others boke and that also by wrytig which was your own request as it wil apperre by your protestation sent to the councell in that behalfe The first day ye came without any boke at all contrary to the order taken and also as I haue sayd to your own request The second day ye refused to procede any father and stode onely vpon this point that onlesse ye might haue the last word ye would not disput For ye said whosoeuer might haue that wer like to discedere cum applausu for these very wordes two of your own company vttered in latin euen by the same termes as I do now Otherwise ye sayd ye would not dispute Which answer was so vain that not onelye y â— rest of the hearers but olso y â— Bishop that theÌ„ was of Yorke your own frend fouÌ„d faulte with it and was ashamed of it bad you procede In conclusion contrary to al meÌ„s loking for onely vpon your refusall the disputacion was sodenlye broken of And I am contente to stande to the iudgement of all the heaâ—…ers herein whether I haue reported indifferently or no. ¶ Sarum YE say ye remayne still in the faith ye wer baptised in O maâ—…ter doctour stande not to much vpon that point Ye know ye haue already forsaken a great number of thinges that were thought necessary when ye were baptised And yet besides that how many tymes haue sum of you altered your faith within the space of xx yeres Remeber wel your self who wrote the boke de vera obedientia against the supremacy of Rome Who commended it with his preface Who set it forth in solemne SermoÌ„s Who confirmed it with open othe ¶ Cole VVHat one thinge am I gone from ye saye muche and proue little Ye meane the 〈◊〉 Bishop of winchester who repented at the
⧠THE TRVE COPIES OF THE LETters betwene the reuerend father in God Iohn Bisshop of Sarum and D. Cole vpon occasion of a Sermon that the said Bishop preached before the Quenes Maiestie and hir most honorable Counsel 1560. ¶ Set forthe and allowed according to the order appointed in the Quenes Maiesties Iniunctions ¶ Cum gratia priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis per septennium THE COPIE OF a letter sente from D. Cole to the Bishop of Sarum vpon occasion of a Sermon that the saide Bishop had preached in the Courte before the Quenes Maiesty IT ruâ—… 〈◊〉 I shall not needâ—… many wordes to make my entree with you You hauâ—… made so large and gentill an offer that my request beynge employed wythâ—… the compasse of the same shall haue an answere I hope to my comforte Where in these Articles you seeme very resolute as it is thought so well armed that you haue whâ—… withto persuade any reasonable maÌ„ to be in them of 〈◊〉 opinioÌ„ may it therfore like you to sende me the chiefe places in these â—…atters not written for that were to mutche paines for you but noted or as they terme it coted whiche where they be And I promise you by y t â—…aith I beare to God I shall yelde fo farre as you shall giue me cause I wold wishe it might please you to write herein againe for talke will not so well further that you should herein entende Yf happely it shall lyke you to wryte any more then the places whiche ye accompte will throughly proue your opinion I pray you do it rather dialecticè then otherwise For the weght of these matters more requireth learning then wordes Yf the places that you haue in these Artiâ—…les be but such as are already answeared by learued men on our side or but suche as Caluine Bueer or other of the protestauntes haue laide for them selfe then I trust you will laye more weght or reason to them For suche as they be in them I haue already sene I repute them percase somwat able to do with yonge folke or the simple and vnlearned people other I wene weigh them no better then they be worthy Yet one thing more I long muche to be answeared in why ye rather offer â—…othe in your Sermon yesterday in the Courte at all other times at Powles Crosse to dispute in these iiii pointes then in the chiefe matters that lye in question betwixte the Church of Rome and the ProtestauÌ„tes Yt semith to me farre the nearer way to compasse that you would so faine winne if ye began not with suche matters which we deny not but a generall CouÌ„sell might take order that they shoulde be practised as ye woulde haue it Mary the Article of the presence of Christes Body bludde in the Sacrament the article of our Iustification the valewe of a Christian mans good workes whether the Masse â—…sed in the churche of Rome be tolerable yea or no yea whether that y e masse be not a verye sacrifice acceptable to God in dede and good bothe for the quicke and the dead whether any Scripture forbiddeth a manne to deâ—…re the blessed Apostles and Martyrs in heauen to pray for vs whether it be lefull to honour them and whether it be lefull for vs and good for them to prayâ—… for all christian Soules I wene if ye â—…ad the vpper hande but in one of these questions the world might wel thinke we were smally to be trusted in all the â—…est For we make a platte and playne answere to them without if or and. So do we not whether the Seruice ought to be in Englishe or not Or whether the people ought to receaue in bothe kindes or no. Or whether any priuate â–ª Masse ought to be saide in the Churche or no. I haâ—…â—…eoparded to wade this farre with you for no worse purpose then I haue vttered at the beginning For of trouâ—…h if you shew me good cause why I shal yelde as I haue promised Mâ—… aduenture in this case syalbe so taken I trust as no aduaÌ„tage be sought against me as for breache of any parte of my 〈◊〉 one way or other Wherefore I pray you constrewe my doynges by the meaning I had in them I haue here set in writynge the 〈◊〉 that you haue so gentelly ofâ—…d â—…o â—…e resonable in suche sorte in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…y 〈◊〉 ported 〈◊〉 your mouth 〈◊〉 me 1. Whether there remayne any substance of Bread and Wyne after the consecration done as the Churche appointeth 2. Whether it be tolerable that y â— people should receaue vnder one kinde or no 3. Whether it be any offeÌ„ce before God that the common Seruice shoulde be saide in a tonge that the people vnderstandeth not 4. Whether it be any offeÌ„ce before God a Prieste to saye Masse onles one or other receaue with him 18. Martij Henricus Cole The Bishop of Salisburies answere vnto the letter afore written I Perceyue by youre letters that ye were not present your selfe at my Sermon in the Court but only herde of it by the reporte of others And where you desire to be answered in certain pointes touchinge the same considerynge both my calling and also the place where I spake I staÌ„de in doubte whether I may safely wythoute further licence geue a rekening of my doctrine being vttered before the Prince the Counsell and the whole state of the Realme specially to a subiecte and sutch a subiecte as mistiketh all Sermons and yet will not vouchesaue to heare one Notwithstandyng forasmuche as I am persuaded that you charitably desire to be resolued â–ª I can also charitably be contented as a frende with a frende or a scholar with a scholar to conferre with you herein reseruinge alway my former protestation Touchingâ—… y â— quotations of the special points groundes that I stand vpoÌ„ if you had herde y â— maner of my doctrine your selfe I be leue you would not haue required theÌ„ For your reporterhath altered the whole forme of my speakyng For I stoode only vpon the negatiue which as you saide when time was in the disputation that should haue ben at Westminster is not possible to be proued My offer was this that if any one of all those thinges that I theÌ„ rehearsed could be proued of youâ—… side by any sufficient authoritie other of the Scriptures or of the olde Doctours or of the auncient Councels or by any one allowed example of the primitiue churche that then I woulde be content to yelde vnto you I say you haue none of al those helpes nor Scriptures nor CouÌ„cels nor doctours nor any other anâ—…iguitye this is the negatiue Now it staÌ„deth you vpon to proue but one affirmatiue to y e contrarie and so to require my promisse The articles y â— I said could not be proued of your parte wer theâ—…e â–ª That it can not appeare by aâ—…y authoritie other of the olde Doctours or of the auncient CouÌ„cels that there was any priuate masse in the
whole Churche of Christ at that time Or y t there was then any communion ministred in the church to the people vnder one kinde only Or y t the commen prayers were then pronouÌ„ced in a strauÌ„ge toÌ„ge that the people vnderstoode not Or that the Bishoppe of Rome was then called Vniuersalis Episcopus or Caput Vniuersalis Ecclesiae an vniuersall Bishoppe of the whole world or els the head of the vniuersall Churche Or that the people was then taught to beleue that in the Sacrament after the coÌ„secration the substauÌ„ce of Bread and wyne departeth awaye and that there remayneth nothing els but only the accidentes of Bread and wine Or that then it was thoughte lawfull to say x. xx or xxx masses in one churche in one day Or that the people was theÌ„ forbidden to praye or to reade the scriptures in theyr mother tonge And other â—…o Articles a great number I rekened vp then at Poules Crosse which it were loÌ„g now to rehearse And if any one of all these articles can bee sufficiently proued by such authoritie as I haue said as ye haue borne y â— people in haÌ„de ye can proue them by I am well content to stande to my promisse â—…f you saye these are but smal matters in comparison of others yet as small as ye wolde haue theÌ„ seeme now â–ª sum men haue felte no small smarte for them And where you merueile why I began not rather with the reall presence with Justification with the valew of good workes with the sacrifice of the Masse wyth praying vnto sainctes with prayinge for the dead althoughe in deede it maye seeme very mutche for me to be appointed by others what order I shoulde take in my preachinge yet to answeare the truth why I passed by these maters at the first and rather began with other the cause was not for that I doubted in any of the premisses but only for that I knewe the matters that you â—…ue questioÌ„ of might at least haue sum colour or shadow of the doctours But I thought it best to make my entree 〈◊〉 such thinges as wherin I was well assured yâ—…â—…lde be able to finde not so mutche as any colour at all And if ye will firste graunt this to be trewe as I beleue you will notwithstandinge the people haue ben longe told the conâ—…rary afterwarde I am well content to trauel with you father in the rest Further I merueile mutche ye write y t touching a priuate masse or the receiuing vnder one kinde or the commeâ—… prayers to be had in an vnknowen tongue or otherwise ye are not resolued to answear precisely without if or and â–ª For where ye saye ye are coÌ„tent to be ordered herein by a generall Councell first I woulde 〈◊〉 what general Councel of any antiquitie euer decreed any of those matters against vs 〈◊〉 perhap â—…es ye wil say the councel of CouÌ„stauce that of late yeres pronounced oâ—…y against Christ himselfe â–ª and all the primitâ—… churche that it shoulde be a 〈◊〉 disorder if the people should commâ—… cate vnder both kindes And haâ—…g no 〈◊〉 couÌ„cel that 〈◊〉 was to alledge in these matters I maruâ—… how ye can iustly say ye are altogether ordered by couÌ„celles And yet farther woulde I learne what warrant any general CouÌ„cel can haue to decree any thinge contrary to goddes word Where ye say ye haue sene maister Caluines and maister Bucers reasons haue founde them very weake and not able to moue any other then yonge 〈◊〉 and vnlearned people me thinketh that answeare is so commen and so general that it maâ—…â—…erue our tourne as well as yours For we haue reade Coclaeus Eckius Pigghius 〈◊〉 and such others haue found such reasoÌ„s and answeares in them as I beleue you your selfe are not mâ—…che moued withall Where you saye that maister Caluâ—…es anâ—… maâ—…ster Bucâ—…rs reasons haue benne answeared I graunt in deede they haue 〈◊〉 answeared but not so muâ—…che by learninge as by other meanes as you knowâ—… But your reasoÌ„s haue 〈◊〉 answered by reason 〈◊〉 â–ª as now God be thanked the whole worlde knoweth But to conclude as I began I answeare that in these articles I holde only the negatiue and therfore I loke howe you will be able to affirme the contrarie and that as I said afore by sufficient authoritie Whiche if ye do not you shal cause me the more to be resolued others to stande the more in doubt of the rest of your learning 20. Martij Io. Sarum â–ª ⧠D. Coles seconde Letter to the Bishop of Sarum I Shall for this tyme passâ—… ouer all other partes of your answeare and renew my former suite vnto you in most hartye and humble wise desiring you to giue eare vnto me in the same Remember â—…or goddes sake howe I began with you not for other entent then to be instructed why I shoulde be accompted obstinate for standing in coÌ„trary opinion with you Nowe when I weighe your answere sent me lately in writinge I thinke you do mistake my doyng supposing that the same coÌ„meth not of such grounde as it doth My letter sent to your declareth in my first entree with you what my meaning was and wherof it proceded I hearde by reporte of manie that bothe at Powles other where ye openly wished that one man thinkinge otherwise then you do would charitably talke with you whom you would with like charitie answeare and â—…ndeuour to satisfye And although yoâ—… had not so protestâ—…d yet is it the parte of a common and publike preacher to performe no lesse when occasion is geueÌ„ With whyche cause I was moued to write as I did entendinge if I might to learne of you that I knew not and that coulde by learning perswade a man not wholy vnlâ—…arned to yelde therunto according to the wordes of my writinge and â—…rotestation But I â—…nde not this meanynge in your writiÌ„g sente vnto me wherin you shâ—…e your selfe â—…isposed only to defede your teaching as confessed and take fâ—…r trew nâ—… to giue any accâ—…pte thâ—…rof or to satisfye any y â— doubteth And there you 〈◊〉 me allâ—…age to the contrarye and â—…proue your saying which neither reason nor lawe can driue me to Râ—…ason â—…icause the doctrine being yet dâ—…btfull and standinge vpon proufe the teacher shoulde firste approue it vnto suche as doubte Which the custome of learning in all vniuersities proueth true Where the oppenâ—…t when â—…atter is â—…enied as your doctrine is by vs alleageth â—…or y â— parte which he would haue sâ—…me â—…rew Anâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…ou to disproue that doâ—… 〈◊〉 which lonâ—…e time hath benne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more when any man professed a râ—…formation of doctrine as you dâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath euer alleaged causes wlâ—…y they so did 〈◊〉 so take â—… hande â–ª to proue that they taught â–ª agaiâ—…st such as did and woulde thinke otherwise But bicause you aâ—…e aâ—… Bishop and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…tche an 〈◊〉 ye doubt 〈◊〉 â—…ou ought 〈◊〉 shewe cause of y
â— you 〈◊〉 or no and therfore ye spake by 〈◊〉 Where at I do â—…utche 〈◊〉 for the person 〈◊〉 the place maketh â—…ereuce wâ—…o shoulde proue or disproue â–ª The greater personage you beaâ—…e the lesse cause haue ye to be put to answeare You haue not yet I wene all forgot the trade in â—…reforde which you and I were broughte vp in In scâ—…oles of philosâ—…phie a maister of arte is the highest degree where the maister is rather put to oppose theÌ„ to answeare And like wise in diuinitie in ordinarie disputation y â— doctour opposeth the meaner maÌ„ answeareth â–ª And what reasoÌ„ should leade you to to think y â— a Bishop should not rather shew cause of y e he teacheth the any other Saâ—…et Paul requireth in a Bishop that he be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a man before all other meete and able to teche And it is a reule in Bishops that they be â—…eady to giue an accoÌ„pte of theyr beleue And maâ—…ye reasons are there why it should be so You can not say I am an heretique or obstinate and therby put me of For I offer to yelde in all that ye proue to me I stand in place and case to learne and you a man appoynted to teache I come for no other purpose but to learne more then I knowe I come to you for councell in those pointes ye seeme very resolute in I meane you no harme nor guile Cast me not of for Goddes loue as men doe beggers when they mynde to doe them no good Yf ye haue Scriptures Councels c. with you I desire to know them Yf ye haue none lette me my felowes alone in your Sermons We trouble you not nor giue you cause to deale so vnmercifull with vs as some of your side dothe as thoughe we were the most vnreasonable men in the world By lawe vpon good groundes no manne shoulde be put to reason where matters are once agreed on I and my felowes are in bandes to auoide sutche kinde of reasoning as ye woulde put me to Wherein wise men se when ye opeÌ„ly prouoke vs to disproue that ye teach ye fare as if you should saye to one that is bounde hande and foote come strike me thou darest We are as I sayde in place of learners ye in place to teache We are defendauntes and ye y â— plaintifes We continew in the faith we professed sithe our Baptisme ye pretende a chaunge in the same We haue with vs an Aposticall churche ye haue none yet approued We make no innouation for In rebus nouis constituendis saieth y â— law euidens debet esse vtilitas and all new attemptes are to be suspected Ye seeme to mistike in manner all y â— hitherto hath ben receiued But ye saye ye bringe vs againe to the Primitiue Church It is a fowle fal in reasoning to bring that for proufe which lieth yet in questioÌ„ or plainly denied We are in possession ye come to put vs from it Ye meane to drawe vs to you we desire to knowe cauâ—…t why What reaâ—… 〈◊〉 adeth you to put a negatiue in quâ—…n therby to greuâ—… your aduersary yet haue you none of me for I seke on you to be taught where in Lawe a person 〈◊〉 aâ—…ted can be put to no more but to defede Wher a negatiue implieth in it a yea or affirmatiou there the plaintife is put to his proufe But I protest once agayne I come not to dispute but to learne â—…u will happely say that both â—…ur side and yours hath already saâ—… eueÌ„ so muche in the maâ—…ers y â— be in quâ—…stion betwirte vs that as ye can say no more for your parte thâ—… hath ben 〈◊〉 alâ—…eady no more can we neither and 〈◊〉 as good neuâ—…r a whit as neuer the bâ—…â—…f the reasons that Caluâ—… Bucer otâ—… Protesrants dothe make can not 〈◊〉 you what auaileth any moâ—…e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the case be suche in dâ—…de that 〈◊〉 parte can go further but all is sâ—…yd thâ—…t maketh for eyther parte then eyther lâ—…t both partes let other alone vntill suche a generall Councell be assembled as ye will agree to stande by whiche will not be I trow whiles I liue nor seueÌ„ yeares after for oughte I se yet And yet I se other folke thiâ—…ke that not reasonable because the chiefest poinâ—…es we striue on are already determined And here it boteth not to saye as ye do of â—…e Councell of Constance slaunderouâ—…y till ye had proued that â—…e saye I am som what bould with you in this terme but pardon me I pray you thys case requireâ—…h the same It boteth not I say to saye thâ—… Churche hath walked in blindnes so as ye make none accompte of suche determination Remember ye haue not yet proued the errour of one generall Councell Yf 〈◊〉 be as you saye all is saide y â— can be then you and I now shoulde do well to weighe the reasons of bothe sides â—…ere if ye saye what weghtes or balauÌ„ce will ye weigh them by let vs hardely do herein as men do when the queÌ„stion is whiche of two pieces of gold or two pieces of cloth is best then they take a fine pece of Golde or Clothe and that y â— goeth nerest the best that ought to be so taken for best Let you and me weyghe your mennes reasons ours by the fathers weghtes aud balance see who reasoneth most like S. Augustine S. Basil S. Cyprian TertulliaÌ„ Ireneus and â—…ionysium the Councelles suche other weghtes fit for that purpose Thus we see there is yet good cause ynough why men may soberly learne one of an other And if it misfortune y â— for lacke of insight we can not agree whiche balance wegheth heauiest let vs borow eyes of our neighbours And if ye begin handsomly with me I mistrust not but men shall at length get more libertie for so good a purpose when good meaning is well knowen By this ye see I meane no guile nor attempt no new practise Yf ye refuse me at this request fore see what may be thought You are not all withont enemies pardie Sum will percase constrew ye refuse Conscientia imbecillitatis c. Well if ye sende worde yeare at a pointe wil goo no further theÌ„ I pray you that of all this incouÌ„ter there grow no farther breache of amitye or harm other wayes I mean and deal plainly and trust vpon your open promis to go harmeles againe from you as I began Here repeting again my former protestation that I am not nor wil be against any Article that learning or reason can she we I ought to beleue beyng ready without malice to heare and take what may be alleaged to driue me to that yâ—… teache and desiring you here withall to constrew my sayinges by the intent I bad in them and also to tender my suite I shal here make and ende and trouble you no further onles I see more coÌ„forte at your hande I had once made readie
require you to no greate paine one good sentence shal be sufficient You would haue your priuate masse the Bishop of Romes Supremarie the Commen prayer in an vnknowen tongue and for the defence of the same ye haue made no sinal adoo Me thinketh it reasonable ye bryng sum one authoritie beside your owne to auouche the same withall Ye haue made y â— vnlearned people beleue ye had al the Doctours al the CouÌ„celles fiften huÌ„dred yeres on your side For your credites sake let not all these great vauÌ„ts come to naught Where ye say ye are in place of a learner and gladly cum to be taught you must pardon me it semeth very hard to beleue For if you were desirous to learne as you would seme ye would cum to the Church ye would resort to the lessons ye would abide to hear a sermon for these are the Scholes if a man list to learn It is a token the scholer passeth 〈◊〉 for his Boke y e wil neuer be brought to Schole Ye desyre ye may not be put of but y t your suit may be considered And yet this half yere long I haue desired of you of your bretheâ—… but one sentence and still I know not how I am cast of and can get nothing at your handes You call for the speciall proufes of our doctrine whiche would require a whole Boke where as if you of your part could vouchesaue to bring but two lines the whole matter were concluded Yet lest I should seme to flie rekening as ye do or to folow you in discourtesie I wil perfourme sum part of your request although in dede it be vnreasonable Agayust your new deâ—…se of traÌ„substantiatioÌ„ besides many others whom I wil now passe by ye haue the old father doctour Gelasius whose iudgement I beleue ye will regarde the more bicause he was soÌ„time bishop of Rome which See as you haue taught can never 〈◊〉 And is alleaged in the decries his wordes be plaine Non desinit esse substantia panis natura vini It leaueth not to be the substance of bread and the nature of wine But to auoid this authoritie sum men of your side haue ben forced to expound these words in this sorte Non desinit esse substantia hoc est non desinit esse accideÌ„s It leaueth not to be the substaÌ„ce of bread y t is to saye it leaueth not to be the accidence or the fourme or the shape of Bread A very miserable shift Euen as right as the Scholie expoundeth the Text. Dist. 4. Statuimus id est abrogamus Yet doctor Smith of Oxford toke a wiser way For his answear is that Gelasius neuer wrote those wordes and that they hange not together and that there is no sence nor reason in them Here haue you that after the coÌ„ secration there remaineth the sub stance of bread and Wine Now bryng ye but one doctour that will say as ye saye that there remayneth only the accidentes or shapes of bread and wyne and I will yelde As touching a priuate Masse Gregorie saieth in his dialogues that before the time of the CoÌ„munion the Deacon was â—…oute in his time to crie vnto the people Qui non communicat locum cedat alteri who so will not receaue the Communion let him departe and giue place to others To breake the ordinaunce of Christ and to communicate vnder one kinde only your own doctour Gelasius calleth it SacrilegiuÌ„ And Theophilus Alexandrinus sayeth Si Christus mortuus fuisset pro Diabolo non negaretur illi poculum sanguinis â—…f Christ had died for the Deuil the cup of the bloud should not be denied him That the CoÌ„men prayers were vsed in the commen tongue you haue S. Basil S Hierome S. Augustin S. Chrisostome Saint Ambrose and the Emperour Iustiniam the places be knowen You see I disaduantage my self of many thinges that mighte be spoken For at this present I haue no leisure to write Bokes Now must I needes likewyse desire you forasmuche as I haue folowed your minde so far ether to bryng me one olde doctour of your side or els to giue vs leaue to thinke as the trueth is ye haue none to bryng You desire vs to leaue 〈◊〉 agaynst you and no more to 〈◊〉 so 〈◊〉 with you in the pulpittes O maister Doctour call you this vnmercifull dealyng when you were in authoritye ye neuer coulde call vs other then â—…tours and heretiques and yet besides all that vsed our Bodies as you know We only tell the people as our 〈◊〉 is that you withstand the manifest trueth and yet haue nether Doctour nor Councell nor Scripture for you and that you haue shewed such extremitye as y â— like hathe not ben sene and nowe can giue no rekenyng why Or if ye can let it appeare You saye our doctrine is yet in doubt I answere you to vs it is most certein and out of all doubt But if you for your parte be yet in doubt reason and charitie would ye had bene quite resolued out of doubt before ye had dealt so vnmercifully for it w t your brethern You are bound you say may not dispute yet god be thaÌ„ked you are not so bound as ye haue bouÌ„d others But I wold wish y t Quenes maiestie wold not only set you at 〈◊〉 in that behalf but also commaunde you to shewe your groundes But when ye were at liberty â–ª and a free disputatioÌ„ was offred you at Westminster before the Quenes most honorable couÌ„cel the whole estate of y â— Realm â–ª I pray you whether parte was it that then gaue ouer And yet theÌ„ you know ye were not bound Ye say ye remayne still in the faith ye were baptised in O good maister doctor stand not to much in that point You knowe ye haue alreadie for saken a great number of suche thinges as were thought necessarie wheÌ„ ye were Baptised and yet be sides that how many times haue suÌ„ of you altered your faith within the space of twenty yeares Remember your self who wrote the Boke A. De vera obedieÌ„ â–ª tia against the Supremacie of Rome B who commended it with his preface C who set it forth with solemne Sermons D who confirmed it with open othe You haue ecclesiam Apostol â–ª cam ye saye and we haue none Nowbeit in all these matters that we nowe entreat of we haue as you know must needes confesse the olde doctors church the auntient Councelles Church the Primitiue church S. Peters church S. 〈◊〉 Church and Christs Church and this I beleue ought of good right to be called the Apo stelles Churche And I 〈◊〉 mutch that you knowing ye haue none of all these yet should say ye haue ecclesiam Apostolicam Where ye say ye make no innouation it is no marueile for in manner all thinges were altered afore to your hands as may most â—…uidently appear by all these matters that be nowe in question betwene vs wherin ye
nowe and coÌ„quere the reste of your affectioÌ„s to I doubt not but we shall sone agrie Here I leaue putting you â—…sones gently in remembrance that beyng so often and so openly desired to shew forth one Doctour or Councell c. in the matters afore mentioned yet hitherto ye haue brought nothinge and that if ye stande so still it must niedes be thought ye do it Conscientia imbecillitatis for that there was nothing to be brought â–ª 20. Martij Io Sarum â–ª Doctour Coles answere to certaine parcelles of the Seconde Letters of the Bishop of Sarum set forthe in such sorte as it came from the Author 8. Aprilis Anno â–ª 1560. IT liketh you thus to say that youre readers maye think you touch me very sore where you discouer great vntrueth in youre wryting For my purpose was to be taught to this marke only I shot You for lacke of good matter answer I speak not to the purpose not to your purpose but to 〈◊〉 Howe oftentimes must I tell you I cum not to teach but to be taught You require that is daungerous for me to do as you know Well railed you shall finde that we haue more then all you shal be able to answere when time shall require These wordes glistered golde like and discloseth in you no will to satisfye my demaund I wene for lack of stuffe You say mutch and proue nothyng your trueths be so open that none seeth them but your own side I haue no priuiledg when reason lawe shal wil me to do it you shal finde it now I stande bound to the contrarie as you know I must nedes think sum parte of your writings made by sum smatterer as here for a shewe of skill in Logique brought in a place of Logique out of al purpose How frame you this to your purpose and you shall finde me therin trew As I shal happely make you to se if you driue me to it So did I to Your doctrine against transubstantiation is yet to be proued and no man bound to beleue it And yet beynge as trew as you would haue it seme yet may you enfurme the weak willyng to learn That you are required that you refuse make large offer to no purpose We brought more then ye were able to answer al were it no Scriptures nor Councelles nor Doctours This argument woulde I fayne see proued Stout and bolde asseueration maketh no prouf in the lawe Here is againe one place that I rekeÌ„ ye put not in your selfe for it maketh quite against you For Christe proued y â— Pharises were not Abrahams children and that a man may not put away 〈◊〉 wife for euery cause Two purposes against your selfe Gregorie proueth a negatiue 〈◊〉 none of his forefathers euer vsed y â— title As one might say that you preach is â—…aught byâ—…ause men in times paâ—…e taught not so â—…his parte of Gregorie serueth no whit to disproue the Soueraintie as Driedo will teache you if you vouchsaue to reade him Yf you read again y â— place in Aristotles Topikes you shall there see y â— better to vnderstaÌ„d it He speketh it where men dispute Dialecticê in suche sorte as we do not therâ—…ore it serued not your purpoâ—…e But I tel you yet once agayn I cum not to dispute but to learn Ridetur chorda qui semper aberrat eadem â–ª D Cole will 〈◊〉 it when it 〈◊〉 to his turne In the end of this writing ye shall finde mine answer to that you here say The last answere When you meddle w t lawe you shew your skill I am still in possession of all that euer I thought if you put me out of possession by force I ought to be restored Had not the Priestes in the olde lawe good title to sit in Moses chaire What you forget your self yes perdie The Lawe accompteth no man Malae fidei possessorem after that he hath continued in possession an hundred yeres But I pardon you for mistaking y â— law it is not your facultie I enter no suit against you it were â—…oly to shew mine euidence vntil 〈◊〉 may serue take place I craue only to be â—…nformed which I can not 〈◊〉 PatieÌ„tia When I commence law against you then this speach may serue you to â—…unt purpose Why I cum not to your Sermons This question is captius and yet you are not herewith diâ—…harged why you â—…ould not enstruct me As mâ—…n 〈◊〉 theyr 〈◊〉 so thouse they 〈◊〉 teacâ—…ers S. Augustine S. Chrisostome c. Sermons tende more to teache then to conuince We stand not in case like what nede so much of one thing All that I required may be couched in six lines and for aught that I see yet in lesse to It is no disconrtesie to refuse to doo that wherwith I might forfeit my recognisaunce I se well ye write much read litle Gelasius is ful answered by Tapper â–ª in articulo de transsubstantiatione You alledge his wordes otherwyse then you finde them wyich fault I trust groweth on ouersight Shew what they are that it be not thought y t you deuise this of your owne phantasie This glose you mislike bicause you vnderstand not to glosers meaninge It may stande ful wel Soft and fayr you haue not rede the answere Reede Roiarde and you shal see more At my cue I shal be redy for you Ye haue better stuffe thaÌ„ this I trow For this is sumwhat weak The decries where you learned thys of Gelafius telleth you howe you should vnderstand it Theophilus shal be answered when I cum to dispute with you Whether the Grek the Latin tong were then vnderstand of the common people remaineth yet vpon prouf Well I trowe S. Basil c. proueth not very well â–ª Here I remaine stil in doubt I praye you take good leisure write affectually I wis you know I may not nor y â— case I stand in requireth it not You â—…porte I said if c. Men of your side vsed theÌ„ selfes tray â–ª terously to Quene Marie as none of vs do nowe Not manifest vntil it be better proued You had but the Law you require more theÌ„ any Law wil beare against vs. I doubted more then I do You geue me good cause to be well confirmed At Westminster we came to disput and we were answeared there was none appointed where we reâ—…used not to write neither But when our Boke could not be redde as yours was we refused not vtterly to diâ—…ute but only this case if our boke could not be suffred to be red as indifferently as yours was Now hardly weighe whether you haue indifferently reported that we vtterly refused to dispute with you or no. What one thing am I gone from you say much proue litle You meane the olde Bishop of â—…ynchester who re peâ—…ed at the hour of his death And whear you mean I condescented to the Prâ—…macie of king Henry at my first cuÌ„ming home or I had laboured
were woÌ„t to haue it in their coÌ„mon disputatioÌ„s in y â— paruise Scholes in Oxford yf it serue only for them y â— dispute dialecticè ye as ye pretend be are the person onely of a lerner cum not to dispute why theÌ„ did ye alledge against me the custome of the Scholes the disputation oâ—… maisters of art in the vniuersities ye knowe they vse there to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dialecticè none otherwise And that I spake herein I spake onely vpon occasion of your own wordes Howe shall I thinke ye remember your Aristotle if ye so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your own letters ¶ Sarum BUt that ye wil not do and ye knowe why 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But 〈◊〉 ye râ—…quire to se our groundes And what better ground can we haue on our side then that Doctour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 man on the other side can 〈◊〉 no ground to stand against 〈◊〉 ¶ Cole RIdetur chorda qui semper aberrat eadeÌ„ Doctor Colâ—… proue it wheÌ„ it 〈◊〉 to his turn Thereply Sarum SEing for lacke of Doctoures ye answere me with Poetes it shall do well to answere you again with the same Decies repeâ—… placebunt And yet when ye come so often with the pretence of desire to be taught and of your reâ—… if I liste to 〈◊〉 as ye do why may not I as wel say to you Ridetur chorda qui semper aberrat eadem As for the prouing herof ye do wel to take a day In the mean season geue others leaue to think the trueth ¶ Sarum HE that wil make any Innoâ—…arion say ye must geue a reason of hys 〈◊〉 O master doctor this reason 〈◊〉 most against your selfe for ye haue misliked and put away the most part of the order of y â— Primitiue church and yet ye neuer gaue good reason of your doinges ¶ Cole IN the end of my 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The reply Sarum ANd there shall you fynde the Reply ¶ Sarum YE say ye are in possession No ye were sometime ye are not nowe and when ye were ye had no right title or good euidence to claime by No more then they which sometime sate in Moses chaire or they y t saide Nos sumus 〈◊〉 Abrahami we are the children of Abraham therby claimed their possession Therfore ye were possessores 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and for that cause ye ar now 〈◊〉 and orderly remoued ¶ Cole VVHen ye meddle with 〈◊〉 ye shewe 〈◊〉 I am 〈◊〉 in possession of all that euer I taught and if you put me out of possession by 〈◊〉 I ought to be restored Had not the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the olde lawÌ„ good title to sit in Moses chaire What ye forget your self yes perbie The 〈◊〉 â—…ccompted no man maloe fidei possessorem after that he hath continued in possession an â—…ored yeres But I pardon you for mistaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is not your 〈◊〉 The Reply Sarum I Haue not so litle skil in y e law but I vnderstand what are malae fi dei possessores And as now gods name be praised it is wel knowen y t ye haue been they ye are put out of possessioÌ„ not by violence of maÌ„ but by y e very force of gods trueth which so deuoureth consumeth 〈◊〉 error falshed as Moyses 〈◊〉 deuoured swalowed vp the fained serpeÌ„ts of y t Sorcerers If ye claime to be restored be not agreued to shew your euidence Where ye say the Bishops and Priests y t wer in Christs time had good title to sit in Moyses chaire I graunt you they had euen as good title as ye had to sit and beat rule in the Church of Christ. And therfore your example misliketh me neuer a whyte 〈◊〉 ye knowe Christ called them Fures latrones theues and robers and saide vnto them Vos ex patre diabolo estis ye are y â— children of the deuil Ye say the law accompteth no man possessorem malae fidei y t hath continued in possession one hundred yeares Which thing notw tstanding I can be content to gauÌ„t you to be true in the ciuile law yet is it not true in the law of God that as ye know is proued by diuers authorities eueÌ„ in your own decrees Dist. 8. There is alleged s. Augustin whose words are these Veritate manifestata cedat consuetudo veritati Nemo cousuetudinem rationi veritati praeponat quia consuetudinem ratio veritas semper excludit After y â— trueth is once found out let custom geue place vnto the truth Let no man set custom before truth and reasoÌ„ for reason and trueth euermore put custom to silence Likewise S. Gregory and his wordes are these Si consuetudinem opponas adâ—…uertendum est quod Dominê° dicit Ego sum via veritas vita non dicit Ego sum 〈◊〉 Et certè quaelibet consuetudo quantumuis vetusta quantumuis vulgata veritati omnino est postponenda Yf ye lay custoÌ„ for your selfe ye must remember that Christ faith I am the way the trueth and the lyfe he saith not I am custó And doubtles any custom be it neuer so auncient neuer so commen yet muste it nedes yelde to the trueth Likewise S. Ciprian whose wordes be these Si solus Christus audiendus est â—…on debemus atteÌ„dere quid aliquis ante nos facieÌ„dum putarit sed quid qui ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Neque enim hominis consuetudinem sequi debemus sed veritatem Dei cum per Esaiam Prophetam Deu â–ª loquatur dicat sine causa colunt me docentes mandaâ—…a doctrinas hominum If onely Christ must be herd we may not wey what anye man hath thoght good to do that hath been before vs but what Christ â—…ath first done y â— is before all men For we may not folowe the customes of man but the trueth of God specially for that God sayeth by the Prophet Esay They worship me in vain teaching the commaundementes and doctrines of men Thus ye see euen by youre own decrees that custom against the trueth is a very simple grouÌ„de to build vpon And like as ye vse to say Nullum tempus praescribit Regi Som thynketh of good right â–ª cye ought as well to saye Nullum tempus praescribit Deo Otherwise Antichrist shall cum and sit in possession of the holy place and beare himself as if he were God that God knoweth howe many hundred yeres together And yet at the last he shal be but. Antichrist sit he neuer so high For prescription of an hundred yeares can not make the falshode be to the trueth nor can any prescription be auaylable in your own lawe onlesse it haue bonum titulum and that in Religion must nedes be the word of God Which word forasmuche as ye haue not to alledge as ye your selfe knowe no man better all the face of your prescripcion is but vayne And therfore ye were as I said possessores mà lae fidei And ye
people vnderstode not the Greke tong nor the common Latin people y â— latin tong then woulde I sain knowe what tong they vnderstode I can see no greate cause why they shuld forgeat their own tong and learn another But Arnobius in his tim called the latin tong Sermonem ItaluÌ„ because it was vsed throughout all Italy S. Ambrose in his tyme preathed to the people of Italy in latin and as it is to be thought the people vnderstode him S. Augnstin in his sermons to y â— commen people in Aphrica hath diuerse times these wordes Nunc loquar latinè vt omnes intelligatis Now wil I speak latin saith saint Augustin to the commen people that ye may al vnderstand me S. Gregory in his sermons vsed the latin tong to the people I trow he spake not al in vain I marueil why ye doubt not aswel whether the commen Greke people vnderstod Demosthenes or Aeschines or the commeÌ„ latin people vnderstode Cicero or Hortensius when they spake vnto them in their mother tong Now that the coÌ„men prayers in S. Basiles S. Ambrose S. Augustines tym were in the commen bulgare tong marke howe well it maye be proued S Basil saith thus of the vsage of the commen prayer in his tym ConiuÌ„ctus sonus virorum mulierum paruulorum tanquam fluctus fecieÌ„tis littora in nostris ad Deum precibus excitatur In our praiers y t we make to God we raise vp such a souÌ„d of the voices of men wemen childreÌ„ praying together as if it wer y â— noise of the waues beating agaiÌ„st the sea bankes Wherby it appeareth that in S. Basiles tym men women and children sang in the Churches altogether Chrisostom of his tym sayth thus Ne mireris si in sacris nostris populus cum sacerdote colloquatur Maruil not saith he if that in our prayers the Priest and the people talke together Augustin of his tym saith thus Non est opus loquutione cum oramus id est sonantibus verbis nisi forte sicut Sacerdotes faciunt significaÌ„dae meÌ„tis suae causa non vt deus sed vt homines audiant We nede not saith he to vse words or sound of voice wheÌ„ we pray onlesse it be as the Priestes do to declare their meaning not to the enteÌ„t that god may therfore heare them but that they may be heard of men But because ye be a doctoure of law I would not haue you forget Iustinian the Emperour the first compyler of your lawes He if ye be remembred commaunded the Bishops that they should set forth the commen prayers in opeÌ„ voice and that as he sayeth Vt maiori deuotione audientium animi efferantur That is that the mindes of the heares may be striken w t more deuocion He thought then that y â— vnderstanding of y â— praiers should enkendle deuocion in the hartes of y â— hearers For I beleue he had neuer heard say that ignoraunce shoulde be the cause of true deuocion as ye boldely auouched in the disputtacion at westminster in the hearinge and wonderinge of the most part of the honourable and worshipful of this realm I know not by what secrete Reuelation ye learned this first For your owne Counsels say Ignorantia mater est cuuctorum erroruÌ„ That is to say ignoraunce is y â— mother of all maner errours And the same words ye haue alledged in your own decrees Distin. 38. are very agreable vnto Christes wordes in the Gospel Erratis nescientes Scripturas ye are in errour because ye vnderstand not the Scriptures Origenes one of the oldest doctours of y â— Church saith thus Tormentum est Diabolo si quem videat legere sacras literas possidet enim omnes qui versantur in ignorantia It is a skourge saith he a torment to the deuell if he se any maÌ„ read the Scriptures for he hath power vpon all them that 〈◊〉 in ignoraunce S. Cyril saith Pueri nostri legunt sacras literas ex eo fiunt religiosissimi Our childreÌ„ saith he read scriptures and therof they be cum deuout and holy And what needeth mo allegations your owne Doctour Lyra saith Si populus intelligat rationem sacerdotis melius reducitur in Deum maiori deuotione respondet Amen That is if the people vnderstande the Priest they are better brought to God and with more deuotion they answer AmeÌ„ It muste needes be a miserable cause that is grounded only vpon ignorance for no man hateth the light but he that doth euel Christ said to the Pharisies this is your time and the power of Darkenes yf the people had vnderstandyng of the truth they wolde not suffer you thus to leade them into error as ye do and haue done But I remember Plinius wryteth y t notwithstanding the Lyon be a maruelous fierce courragious beast yet if he may once hodwinck him or make him bliÌ„d ye may lead him whither ye list Thus much by the way I thought good to put you in remembrance for that the strangenes of your doctrine so required yf ye had asmuch to shewe of your syd I beleue of your courtesy ye wold not hyde it ¶ Sarum YE se I disaduaÌ„tage my self of many things that might be spoken for at this present I haue not 〈◊〉 to wryte Bokes ¶ Cole I pray you take good leysure writ affectually The Reply Sarum A Doctour of Lawe and a man of wisedoÌ„ should bring more learning and fewer skornes ¶ Sarum NOw must I needes desire you forasmuche as I haue folowed your mynd so far eyther to bring me one Doctour of your syde or els to giue vs leaue to thinke ye haue none ¶ Cole I wis ye know I may not 〈◊〉 the case I 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 it not The reply Sarum I wis ye know ye can not therfore ye do best to say ye may not ¶ Sarum YE desyre vs to leaue talking against you and no more to deale so vnmercifully with you in the Pulpittes Alas maister doctour cal ye this vnmercifull dealing what was then your dealing when ye wer in place if ye remember ye could neuer vouchsaue to call vs other then Schimatikes Heretikes or Traitours in yâ—…ur Pulpittes And yet besides al that ye vsed our Bodies as ye know We only tel the people as our dewty is that ye withstand the manifest truth and yet haue neitherscripture nor doctour nor councel for you And that ye haue shewed suche extremitye as the lyke hath not bene sene And nowe can geue no rekning why or if ye can let it appeare ¶ Cole YE misreporteme I said 〈◊〉 men of your syde 〈◊〉 sed theÌ„ seltes traiterously to Quene Mary as none of vs do now not manifest vntill it be better proued ye had but the Law ye require more then any Law will 〈◊〉 against vs. The reply Sarum IF they wer Traitours why did ye burne theÌ„ as Heretikes The matter woulde bee to odious to shewe what hath ben wrought by men of youre
houre of his death â—…nd where ye meane I condesceÌ„ded to the 〈◊〉 of king Henry at 〈◊〉 first comming home or I had laboured the matter ye dyd the â—…ke your selfe For in Quene Maries tyme â–ª ye subscribed to the 〈◊〉 sume of them we are entred to talke in 〈◊〉 youre no les blame then mine There be in this town that both saw yoâ—… subscryb and can bryng forth youâ—… hand The Reply Sarum YEs I thinke ye are gone froÌ„ one thing at the least besides pardons and pilgrimeges I ment not D. Gardiner to pul him out of his graue to tormeÌ„t him being dead as ye did master Bucer master Fagius in Cambridg Doctour Peter martirs wyfe in Oxon. others mo but onely that I woulde not haue you builde to much vpon your constancy which hitherto hath â—…en foâ—…nd to be 〈◊〉 as the pleasure of the prince But he repented him ye saye when he saw he shoulde nedes dye I trust he did so for he had good cause so to do But if he repented himselfe of his boke y â— he had written so stoutly against y â— pope why did he not recant it in all his lyfe tyme why did he not reâ—…oke hys errour openly why helde he hys peace why disseÌ„bled he so depely for the space of xx yeares together â—…e say it was onely at youre first comming home from Italy that ye condescended to the Prymacie of king Henry Here muste I put you in remembraunce that ye continewed therin still all king Henries time out euen vntill the death of king Edward and y â— cumming in of Quene Mary And yf her grace had continewed out to haue entitled her selfe y â— Supreme head of the church of England as she did a great whyl after her first entry and y â— as it is to bethought without burthen of her conscience I doubt not then but ye woulde haue talkt better with your selfe continewed so still At this meane whyle ye came to the churche ye sayed and heard y e coÌ„men praiers ye ministred and receiued the coÌ„munion and in all your doinges bare your selfe as any other subiecte of this realm And thus held out as I said for the space of xxyeres I may say to you this was a good long cumming home Therfore I may well thus conclude â—… ye must nedes confesse the same y t either ye deceiued the people then by your example and conformitye of all your doinges allowing that religion for good whiche in youre conscience ye knew to be nought or els that ye be a dissembler and deceyue the people nowe making them asmuche as in you lyeth by your example to thynke this relâ—…gion to be nought whiche in your coÌ„science and knowledge ye find to be godly and good So y t what soeuer iudgement ye haue now or hertofore haue had of this religioÌ„ it must nedes appeare that eyther ye be nowe or els haue ben a deceiuer of the people But after ye had laboured the matter better and as ye saye had red the doctours I pray you what doctour found ye y â— euer told you either that y â— Pope ought to haue the supremacy of y â— who le church or y t the Prince in his own church ought not to haue it But I haue subscribed ye saye aswel as ye and my hand is to be seene and there be sume that sawe me when I did it These proufes were nedefull if I had denied the fact But I haue coÌ„fessed it openly and vnrequired in the mides of the congregation The argumeÌ„ts that ye made were so terrible ye concluded altogether with fyer fagot I confesse I shoulde haue done otherwyse But if I had not done as I did I had not bene her now to encounter with you if ye should now be apposed with y e like conclusions I doubte not but ye woulde be glad to do as bothe ye your selfâ—… and your felowes haue done heretofore ¶ Sarum YE haue Ecclesiam Apostolicam ye saye and we haue none yet ye knowe in all these matters y t we now entreat of we haue the olde doctours churche y â— auncient councels church the primatiue church S. Peters church Saint Paules church and Christes church And this 〈◊〉 beleue onlesse ye can brig me good reason to the coÌ„trary may be called y â— Apostles church And I marueil muche that ye hauing as ye know none of all these churchs or any shadow or token of thâ—… yet shold so boldely saye ye haue Ecclesiâ—… Apostolicam ¶ Cole TO this and sume part of the Article ye shal be answered in the ende of this writing as I before sayed ¶ Sarum WHere ye say ye make no innonatioÌ„s it is no maruell for in a maner all thinges were altered to your hande as may most euidently appeare by all these matters y t be now in question Wherin ye haue vtterly chaunged and abolished the order of the Primatiue church and do nothing els but y â— coÌ„trary And what euident profit the Church of God hath gotten by it I thinke it a harde matter for you to declare ¶ Cole VVHat nedeth so much of one thinge Thys serueth you to seme to say to much The Reply Sarum â–ª THis answer is so shorte that it concludeth nothing ¶ Sarum YE would haue the matter turned ouer to sume suche generall councell as we woulde be contente to stand vnto Howâ—…it that ye think will not be in your time Notwithstanding this I dare boldely saye suche a councell wil be a great whyle before 〈◊〉 shall finde any doctour or olde councel to serue your purpose But if there neuer be suche a councell yet trueth will be trueth notwithstanding For y â— couÌ„cell can not make falâ—…hed trueth but that thinge that it taketh for trueth it certifieth only to be true ¶ Cole I 〈◊〉 ¶ Sarum BUt what redresse can there be 〈◊〉 for at such a councel wheras no maÌ„ shall be iudg or suffered to speak 〈◊〉 way or other but onely such as be openly and iustly accused and found faultie And whereas he that is himselfe moste out of order shal be head and reformer of the whole ¶ Cole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excuses men laye how 〈◊〉 let 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The reply Sarum YE knowe that in youre owne law there was euermore Exceptio iudicis incompetentis And by what lawe can ye fynde that a man maye be a competente iudge in his own cause if the indifferent vsing of the matter maye be tryed by experyence in thys youre laste generall councell holden at Trydent ye knowe that not one man of oure syde notwythstandynge there wer a great nomber of them there seute thether of purpose by theyr Prynces coulde be suffered to sit amonge the rest or to haue a voyce or to yelde a reason of hys faith And y â— Pope Iulius third gauâ—… out vnder his bryeue that none of them all shoulde be heard there vnlesse it were â–ª as he sayed to recant their errours And notwstandinge Pighius himself
disputare The Pope hath a right y t no man maye withstand of wiche ryght no man may dispute Haue ye forgotten that is written in your decretales De translatione episcopi in the glose Papa naturam rerum immutat substantiaâ—… vnius rei applicando alteri Et de nullo potest facere aliquid Et sentetiam quae nulla est facit aliquam Quia in his quae vult ei est pro ratione voluntas Nec est qui illi 〈◊〉 cur ita facis That is he changeth the nature of thyngs applying the substantiall partes of one thing to another And of nothinge he is able to make sumwhat And that y t is no sentence he maketh a good sencence For in any thinge that he willeth his wil standeth in steade of reason And there is no man that may say vnto him why doest thou thus Haue ye forgotten the wordes of your owne councels Papa non potest iudicari the Pope can not be iudged And the same fortefied wyth a good reason oute of the wordes of the Prophet Esay who spake in the parson of God Quia scriptum est Nunquid gloriabitur securis aduersus eum qui secat cum 〈◊〉 shall the axe boaste himselfe ageinst hym that heweth wyth it Or haue ye forgotten that Nostiensis your owne doctoure wryteth Papa est omnia super omnia The Pope is al and aboue al whych words S. Paule speaketh only of Christ. So reuerently the doctoures of your syde vse gods holy Scriptures Yet I passe by a great a nuÌ„ber of the lyke sentences to the same purpose Thus ye se if ye tak part with GersoÌ„ a great many of your own frends wil fall out with you and ye wil be in hasard to be called an heretike Ye se by this that the councell of Constance Basil beinge both generall as Pighius saith decred a falshead and were in errour as ye your selfe must nedes confesse as well as Pighius if ye wil staÌ„d to your own doctryne And therfore Cardinalis Caietanus one of your own syde saith y t both these councelles were afterward iustly abrogate I thynke for that they were thought to haue decreed amisse And so both Gerson and ye by the iudgement of all your brethren remain still in errour And when ye haue sought out y â— bottome of your learning I beleue it wylbe harde for you to find any good sufficieÌ„t cause why a generall councell may not aswel be deceiued as a particuler For Christes promises Ecce ego vobiscuÌ„ sum and vbicunque duo aut tres conuenerint in nomine meo ibi sum ego in medio illorum are made aswell to y â— particular councel as to the generall Howbeit whether the councell may erre or no ye know it avayleth you but little to stand greatly to the defence of councels in these points onlesse ye had sum couÌ„cell to make for you But lyke as the Romaines in old tymes worshipped theyr god Uulcanus wyth al godly honour and yet woulde neuer vouchsaue to geue him a chappel within their towne euen so ye as it appeareth can content your selfe to honoure the councels and to haue them euer in mouth yet wyll ye not vouchesafe to take theÌ„ neare to you and to be ordered by them And therefore these wordes of yours are onely of office and of course that the very countenaumce ye geue the matter might make your reader beleue that ye haue all the councels of yoursyde wâ—… haue none Bnt alas what reuerence or regarde haue ye to the councels The councell of Nice appointed iii. Patriarches to rule the hole churche eche of them wythin hys precinctes of lyke authority Ye haue broken this councell geueÌ„ al y â— who le authority to one alon The councell holden at Eliberis decreed that ther shold be no kind of Image of any thing y â— is worshiped painted in the churche Ye haue broken this councell â–ª and filled your churches ful of Images The councell of Antioch decreed that such as came into the church and heard the Scriptures read and abstained from the communion should be excommunicate froÌ„ the church Ye haue broken thys councel and nether do ye read the Scriptures in such sorte as y â— people maye perceyue them nor once eâ—…horte them to the communion The councell of Charthage commaunded there should nothynge be rede in the church but only the Scriptures of God 〈◊〉 haue broken this councel and red such Legendes and fables vnto the people as ye your self know were ma nifest and open lyes The councell of Rome vnder Pope Nicolas commaundeth that no man 〈◊〉 present at y â— masse of a pryest whoÌ„ he knoweth vndoubtedly to kepe a concubine and that vnder y t â—…ayne of 〈◊〉 yet he whom ye would se fayn haue to be taken for the head of your churche not onely hath broken this councell but also for a certein ordenary tribute to be yerely paied geueth hys Priestes free licence and dispensacions vnder hys great seal â—…ly to kepe concubines without coÌ„trolment And what nede we 〈◊〉 examples 〈◊〉 make the couÌ„celles wey as ye wil wheÌ„ ye list as heauy as golde again when ye list as light as fethers Pope Julius the second called a councell at Rome onely to ouerthrow the counceil of Pisa. And the whole order of S. Dominiks freers cried out shame vpon the councel of Basil for that the Bishops there had taken part with the Scotistes against the Chomistes touchinge originall syn in our Lady The councell of Paris was scott at and iested out of all partes and vntill this daye kept of no parte For our Doctors of England sayd it had no power to sayle ouer the See â–ª Egidius of Rom saith it was to heauy to clim ouer the Alpes Thus muche for that ye seme to stand so 〈◊〉 to the defence of councels hauing in these points not one couÌ„cel to al ledge for your self Sarum YE presse me sore that if I write you not a boke of my proufes it wil be thought I do it conscientia imbecillitatis By lyke ye haue forgotten why ye withall your companye not long sence refused to enter into disputacion w t vs at Westminster Doubtles the greatest part thought it was as it was in dede conscientia imbecillitatis And what thinke ye is there now thought in you y â— being so often required yet can not be won to bryng so much as one pore sentence in your own defence I haue before alledged a few reasons of my part which by order of disputacion I was not bounde to do Now let the worlde iudge whether of vs both flyeth conference â—… Colo. I haue answered to thiâ—… already What order of 〈◊〉 dischargeth you of proufe Yet remember I came not to dispute but to be taught The Reply Sarum YE haue answered me by saying nothing whiche I thinke ye would not haue done if ye had any thynge els to answere from proufe in thys matter I am
sufficiently discharged by the lawe of impossibility For as ye sayd opeÌ„ly at Westminster and once agayne I put you in remembraunce of the same because it is your own law it is impossible to proue a negatiue All your helpe is in the shadow pretence of learning wherby it appeareth well ye flye disputation â—…e were best to get some better cloke to hyde you vnder for these be but fyg leaues and couer not your shame â—… Sarum I Proteste before God brynge me but one sufficient sentence or authoritye in the matters I haue required and afterwarde I will gently and quyâ—…tly conferre with you farther at youre pleasurs Wherfore forasmuch as it is Gods cause if ye meane simply deale â—…mply betray not your right if ye may saue it by speaking one worde ¶ Cole IF ye refuse to enstruct me vnlâ—…sse I bring somâ—… proufe of my part ye bid me to my coste Ye bit â—…e to a â—…east where whil I should take on me to proue your doctryn naught I were lyke to forâ—…eit my recognisance whiche ye guylefullye allute me vnto Thereply Sarum YE hyde your selfe vnder youre Recognisaunce and thinke ye walke inuisible as the Oystriche wheÌ„ he hath once touched his head vnder a little bough though the rest of his body whiche is great large stande open and vncouered yet he thinketh no man can espâ—… him Although ye be sanded set a ground yet ye kepe vp the sail stil as if ye had water at your will â—…e say ye may not dispute lest ye should forfeit your recognisauÌ„ce I would wysh you to remeÌ„ber your selfe and to let the people vnderstand the trueth â—…e knowe ye are not bound in Recognisaunce for disputinge with any man but for that being required to disputacions by the Quenes most honorable councell the place appointed great and worthy audience assembled to y â— same ye gaue ouer as ye know vpon the sudden and would not dispute at al. And therfore for your disobedieÌ„ce tonteÌ„pâ—… ye were bound in recognisance But I pray you were ye thus bound in Quene Maries tyme â—…o as well as now Or if ye were not bounde how happened it that ye neuer durst alledg one auncieÌ„t doctor in these matters al y t while Remember your own wordes 〈◊〉 said a little before that ye brought more theÌ„ we were able to answer notwithstandinge it were as ye sayd nor Scriptures nor couÌ„cels nor doctours And farther I pray you were all y â— rest of the doctours of your syde Pighius Eckius Hofmasterus BuÌ„derius c. bouÌ„d in Recognisaunce aswel as ye Or if they were not bound why were they sodeinty of theyr doctoures that in these matters they coulde neuer vouchsaue to alledge one Loke better vpon your Recognisaunce I can not beleue ye should be so free to scoâ—…e to scorne more then eyther diuinitye or good humanitye woulde beare wythall and onely be forbydden to do that thyng which of al good reason ye ought most to do Or y â— ye shoulde be restrained from the alledginge ofs Augustin S. Hierome s. Ambrose S. Chrisostom s. Basil. c. and haue a priueledge only to alledge Aristotle Horace y â— decrees the decretales the Glose Gerson Driedo Royard Tapper suche meÌ„ as I neuer could haue thoght had been canonized and allowed for doctours of the church Augustus Cesar on a tyme as he was passing through Rome saw certain straung women luling apes whelpes in theyr armes what sayd he haue the women of these countries none other childreÌ„ So may I saye vnto you that make so much of GersoÌ„ Driedo Royard Tapper haue y t learned meÌ„ ofyour syde none other doctors for alas these that ye alledge are scarcelye worthy to bee allowed amongest the blacke garde Hilarus sayeth vnto the Arrians Cedo aliud EuaÌ„geliuÌ„ shewe me sume other gospel for this that ye bringe helpeth you not EueÌ„ so wil I say to you Cedo alios doctores shew me sum other doctoures for these that ye bringe are not worthy the hearing I hoyed ye would haue cume in wyth sum fresher bande It must nedes be sum myserable cause that can find no better Patrones to cleaue vnto I know it was not for lacke of good will of your part ye would haue brought other doctours if ye could haue found them ¶ Sarum THe people must needes thinke â—…m what of your silence and mistrust your doctrine if it shall appeare to haue no manner of ground neither of y â— counsels nor of the doctours nor of the Scriptures nor any one allowed exaÌ„ple of the Primitiue church to stand vpon And so your fyftene huÌ„dred yeres whith the consent of antiquity and geneâ—…ality shall come to nothing ¶ Cole GOd wote I passe little in these matters what the pore sely soules deme of my doings Wherin ye haue no cause to complain syth they ve edified towardes you Wyse men I doubt not see what iust cause I haue to do as I do The Reply Sarum NOwe God wote then are the pore sely soules litle beholden to you that haue been so long and so worshipfully maintained by the sweat of theyr browes and nowe seyng them as ye say deceyued perish before your eyes ye caÌ„ hold your peace and let al alone Saint Paule sayd Quis infirmatur ego non infirmor quis offenditur ego non vror Cupio Anathema esse à Christo pro fratribus meâ—…s And so would ye say to ifye were so sure of y â— matter as s. Paul was or if ye had the spirite of S. Paul Wise men ye say know that ye haue iuste cause to doe as ye doe Doubtlesse for he y t can fynde nothinge to saye hath a reasonable cause to holde his peace And yet I thinke a meane wise man may see y t by y â— vertue of your recognisaunce ye might as well haue aliedged s. Augustin s. Hierom as Royard Tapper But ye know the matter is such that if ye once cum to allegations whatsoeuer ye say it will be the worse As for my part so that both the wyse the vn wyse may see your errours and howe litle ye haue to say for your selfe I passe not greatlye whether yeconfesse the same by speking or by holding your peace For qui tacet consentire videtur as ye youre selfe are wont to â—…ay O master doctour deale simply in gods causes say ye haue doctours when ye haue them in dede when ye haue theÌ„ not neuer lay the fault in your Recognisaunce ¶ Sarum WHere ye saye I am not altogether wythout enemies I assure you who soeuer he be that is enemie vnto me I for my part am enemy vnto no maÌ„ but onâ—…ly wyshe that gods trueth maye beknowen of all men But he that is enemy vnto me in this behalfe I feare me is enemy vnto sum other whoÌ„ be would be loth to name ¶ Cole YE woulde beare â—…olke in hanbe that they
to answer many thiÌ„gs in one Wherein your wordes because they came flowing down in aboundaunce lyke a Streame they caryed away a great deale of â—…ime and baggage with them First where ye graunte that ye of your syde haue varied and do yet vary from the custome of the Primitiue churche I can not but commend your plaines therin in telling the trueth But where then is your antiquitie becum where be your auncient doctoures Where be the fiftene hundred yeares that ye haue so much talked of If ye woulde graunt the same in the pulpit opeÌ„ly before y e people that we require the vse and order of the Primitiue churche and that ye of your parte maintain your priuate masse your supremacy your vnknowen prayers and the most parte of your religion contrary to thesame that our doctrin is olde and that yours is new If ye woulde but graunte this simply plainly before the people we woulde desyer no more at your handes But ye say further that the examples of the Apostles and doctours vinde you not that in theyr tyme the church was but an infaÌ„t and that many thinges that were good for her in that age would be hurtfull to her in this age And therto notwithstanding your recognisaunce ye alledge S. Augustin and S. Ambrose wherin I haue cause sumwhat to 〈◊〉 at your doinges that nowe can so franckely bring in your doctoures to so smal purpose afore in matters of weght touching the greatest part of the contencion y t standeth â—…etwene vs durst not once name one doctor for feare of youre Recognisaunce At the last ye conclude that it were an error to say we are bouÌ„d of necessity to folow the vse of the Primitiue churche To make you a full and a clear answer hereunto I must nedes vse this distinction There were sum orders in y e Primitiue church commaunded by God and sum other were deuised by men for the better trainyng of y e people Such orders as were commaunded by God may not be chaunged in any case only because God commaunded theÌ„ For as God is euerlasting so is hys worde and commaundement euerlasting Of the other syde suche orders as haue ben deuised by men may be brokeÌ„ vpon sum good consideracion onelye because they were men that deuised theÌ„ For as men them selfe be mortall so all theyr wisedomes and inuentions be but mortall As that the communion should be vsed in the mornynge or at night That womeÌ„ should cum to the church ether couered or opeÌ„ faced wherin ye say Saint Peter toke order That the ministers goods shoulde be all in comen or otherwyse c. These other lyke were things appointed and ordered by men and therfore were neuer vsed in all places of one sorte But as they were brought in by men so might they be dissolued brokeÌ„ by men In these things I graunt the exaÌ„ples of y e doctours or Apostles bynd vs not In these thinges it were an errour to saye we are bounde of necessitie to folow the vse of y e Primitiue church These and other like thinges they be that S. Ambrose speaketh of whom ye at Westminster alledged in the case ye then entreated of directly making against youre selfe And we when we heard you name him first marueled muche what ye ment to medle with hym aboue al others For as touching y t commen prayers to be had in a straunge tong whiche matter we had then in haÌ„d S. Ambrose semeth of purpose to controlle both you your brethren in maner one whole chapter through wrytinge vpon y t. xiiii chap. 1. Cor. And farther the examples that he vseth in the place where ye alledged hym are these That the deacon in the Primitiue churche vsed to preache and in his tyme preached not and that women in the Primitiuâ—… churche vsed to baptyse in his 〈◊〉 baptysed not and that in 〈◊〉 â—…tiue church the Sacrament of Baptysme was ministred at all tymes indifferentlye without difference of dayes and that in his time it was ministred onely vpon certain daies And yet in your church contrary to the order of s. Ambrose both women baptise deacons preach and children are baptised euerye day without difference of tyme. Thus ye would seme to folow S. Ambrose and yet alledge hym in suche places where youre selfe moste of all varye from hym But perhaps your mind was occupied or ye had not theÌ„ leysure to marke hym better Hetherto I thinke we agree y t touchiÌ„g such things as haue been ordeyned by men we are not bouÌ„d of necessity to the order of y t Primitiue church But of the other parte I say y t such thinges as God 〈◊〉 coÌ„mauÌ„ded precisely by hys word may neuer be broken by any custome or consent And such be the thynges y t we now require at your hands not deuised by men but commauÌ„ded by God to last for euer Onlesse ye wil happely say as Montanus did that God hath reuealed both mo thinges and also better thinges vnto you then euer he did vnto his Apostles or els as Manicheus said that the Apostle sawe nothing but onely in speculo in aenigmate or as your doctour Siluester Prierias saith Indulgentiae non habent authoritatem ex verbo Dei sed habent authoritatem ab Ecclesia Romana quia maior est Pardons sayth he haue no ground of gods worde but they haue theyr grouÌ„d of y e church of Rome which is a great deale more The cup which ye haue takeÌ„ froÌ„ the people is not a ceremony but a part of the Sacrament And as good right as ye had to take that part away so good right had ye to take away also the other and so to leaue the people nothing atal And therfore y t old father Gelasius saith aut integra percipiant aut ab integris arceantur ether let theÌ„ receine y e hole SacrameÌ„t y t is to say vnder both kindes or els let theÌ„ be put from y e hole By which words of the olde doctor Gelasius it may appeare y t onlesse both partes of the SacrameÌ„t be receiued together the Sacrament is mangled not whole Again to pray in such a tong as the people may vnderstande and therby be edified is not a ceremony to be changed at mans pleasure but the commaundement of God for Paul wheÌ„ he had spoken long therof concludeth at the end Si quis est Propheta aut spiritualis sciat quod quae scribo domini sunt praecepta If any maÌ„ be a Prophet or spiritual let him wel knowe y e the things y e I wryt are the commaundemeÌ„ts of God Prayer in y t vulgare knoweÌ„ tong S. Paule saith is the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t of God and not an order taken by man Again for any one man to take vpon him to be vniuersal Bishop of the hole churche S. Gregorye sayth it is both against the Gospel of Christ and also against the olde canons and aâ—…cient orders of the churche
sumus panibus bene nobis erat malū non vidimus That is We wyll not heare the word that thou spekest v◅to vs in the name of y t lord but we wyll do euery thinge that shall procede oute from our owne mouth as to burne incense to the Quene of Heauen and to offer vp Drinke offerynges vnto her as both we haue done and oure fathers and our kinges our princes in the citie of Iuda and in the streates of Hierusalem For then had we plentie of victualles and were wel and felt no euyl We remember when the Gospel of Christ was preached by S. Paule at Ephesus the deuels mouth was therby stopped all his force and power taken from him yet there was a great n◅ber that rose vp against Paule violently withstode his doctryne and cryed out wyth mayn voyte agaynst him Magna est diana Ephe siorum Great is Diana the Goddesse of the Ephesians Euē so in these dayes notwithstanding the comparisō may happely seme somwhat od◅ous where as the holy Communion is restored to the vse and fourme of y ◠primitiue church to the same order y ◠was deliuered and appointed by Christ and after practised by the Apostles and continued by y e holy doctoures and fathers for y e space of fyue or sixe hundred yeares throughout all the whole Catholick churche of Christ without exception or any one sufficient exāple to be shewed to the contrarye yet are there sum this day that refuse it and shun it vnaduisedlye and wilfullye run hedlong to the Masse of a good zele I hope but not according vnto knowledg For alas they vnderstande not what ▪ they do they know not neither the communion neyther the Masse neyther wil they harkē or inquire to come to knowledg And so in y t middest of the light they remayne stil in darknes Wherfore as I said afore I haue thought it nedefull to intre at sumwhat herof at this tyme haue good hope through Goddes grace so to laye forth the whole matter not with eloquence of words but w t simplicity of the truth y t it maye be plaine both vnto thē that haue forsaken the masse for what cause and howe iustly they haue forsakē it and also vnto them that as yet delite in it what maner of thinge it is that they delyte in I knowe sum man wil saye for as much as y ◠sacrament is a holy thing the ordinaūce of Christ the high mistery of his death of our saluation to remain in the church for euer Therfore it cannot possibly be abused all that we speake this day in this behalfe we speak of malice and not of truth True it is the sacrament is an holy thing y ◠ordinaunce of Christ the mistery of our saluation yet is there nothing so good no ordinaūce so holy no mistery so heauenly but through y ◠foly frowardnes of man it may be abused The Serpent that was set vp by Moises in the wildernes was an holy thinge for it was a sacrament a figure of Christ hanging on the crosse yet was it abused The Gospell of Christe is an holy thynge yet S. Paule sayth to the Philippians there were sum then that preached it for malice and contention doing therby seruice not vnto Jesus Chryste whō they professed in their mouth but vnto theyr owne bellye And thus beyng holy in it self yet was it shamefully abused And what thing is there s◅ holye as the name of God and yet what thing is there so often taken in vain or somuch abused But to cum neare to our purpose the sacrament of Baptyme is an holy thinge yet hath it ben abused and that in the churche of God yea euen at the beginnynge of the churche euen when the Apostles of Christ were yet a lyue and the bloude of Chryste as yet fresh greene before theyr eyes In S. Paules tyme there wer sum that baptised for y ◠dead after that there were sum that baptised such as wer alredy dead sprinkled thē with water in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy gost laied their handes ouer them called thē by their names as if they had ben alyue Whyche thing was reproued forbiddē in the councell of Carthage Others there were that baptised childrē before they were borne beynge as yet in theyr mothers womb Which thing is mencioned and reproued by S. Augustin All these as may sone appeare were gre◅t abuses Thus the sacrament of Baptisme not withstanding it were a holy thing yet was abused The sacrament of the brekinge of Christs body the sheading of his bloud is an heauenly mistery and an holy thing yet hath it oftē tymes ben abused and that in the Primitiue churche when the religion of Chryste semed to be in hyghest perfection In the time of Tertullian and of S. Ciprian which was athousand and four hundred yeres ago wemen commenly toke the sacrament home with thē in theyr napkins layed it vp in theyr chests and receiued a portion of it in the morning before other meats This was an abuse of the sacrament therfore was it brokē In S. Ciprians and S. Augustines tyme yong babes as sone as they were Baptised receyued the Communion But that was a great abuse For by the doctryne of S. Paule the holy misteryes ought to be geuen vnto none but onely vnto suche as be able to vnderstand the meanyng therof to sudge the Lordes body and to declare his death And therfore now infantes when they be baptised receyue not the Communion In the tyme of S. Hierom sum portion of the holy Communiō was sent from the churche to the newe maried man and to his wyfe to be receyued at home This was a disorder of the sacrament and therfore now is not vsed S. Ireneus sayth that one Marcus a necromanser was wōt to enchaunte the cup of the sacrament of Christes bloud so that the liquour should seeme to increase multiplie from a litle to growe to a great quantitie This also was an horrible abuse of Christes holy sacraments Summe of late tyme haue receyued the communion for theyr purgation to cleare them selfe againste sum notorious slaunder And then the priest chaunged the wordes which comenly be vsed at the ministration and said thus Corpus domini nostri Iesu Christi sit tibi ad purgationem Sum others haue vsed to hang the Sacrament as an Agnus Dei before theyr breastes for a protection against the assaultes of the deuel all other wordly enemies S. Benet ministred the communiō vnto a woman that was dead it may well be thought that other did so as well as he For it is forbidden by generall consent in two counselles th one holden at Antifrodorum the other at Carthage No man can lightly denye but these were greate abuses For Christ appointed not the Sacrament of his laste supper that wemen should beare it home
and crieth vnto them Sursum corda Lift vp your heartes according to y â— doctrin of s. Paule Si vna surrexistis cum Christo ea quae sursum sunt quaerite vbi Christus est sedens ad dexteram patris If ye be risen again with Chryst seke for those thinges y â— be aboue where as Christ is sittinge at the right hand of his father And again Nostra 〈◊〉 est in coelis vnde Saluatorem expectamus Our conuersation or dwelling is in heauen from whence we loke for our 〈◊〉 Therfore S. Augustine speake the wordes y t I before alledged Nemo manducat nisi prius adoret No man eateth Chrystes fleshe but fyrste he doth worship it The eating therof the worshipynge must ioyne together But where we eate it there must we worshyp it Therfore must we worshyp it syttyng in heauen So sayth the olde doctour father s. ChrisostoÌ„ Vbi cadauer ibi aquilae Cadauer do mini corpus est Aquillas autem nos appellat vt ostendat oportere illum ad alta contendere qui ad hoc corpus accedit Aquilarum enim non graculoruÌ„ est haec meÌ„sa That is to saye Where soeuer is the carcase there be the Egles The carcase is Christes bodye vs he calleth the Egles to declare that whosoeuer wil approche neare to that bodye must geat a lofte For this is a banket for Egles y â— soare a high not for Iayes y t kepe the ground Christes body is in heauen Thether therefore must we direct our hartes there must we feede there must we refrcshe our selfe there must we worship it So sayth S. Hierome Ascendamus cum eo in caenaculum magnum stratum ibi accipiamus ab eo sursum caliceÌ„ noui testamenti Let vs get vp sayth S Hierom wyth him into the great dyninge chamber that is already prepared and there let vs receyue of him aboue the cup of the new testament So sayth saint Ambrose Non super terram nec in terra nec secundum terram te quaerere debemus si volumus inuenire We maye not leke for the neither vpon y e earth nor in y t earth nor about y e earth if we list to find y t. And to coÌ„clude so sayth Eusebius Emissemus Exaltata mente adora corpus Dei tui That is lyfting vp thy minde vnto heauen there worshyp and adour the body of thy God Thus did the olde Catholike fathers worship y â— bodye of Christ. Thus may we also worship it safely and without perill But to geue Goddes honor to y â— sacrament is a thing both latelye brought into y â— churche vnknown straunge to the auncieÌ„t doctors and as the scholemen and the greatest mainteiners of it haue them selues confessed an occasion of idolatry and full of daunger For what if the priest happen not to coÌ„secrate what if he leaue out of the words of consecration neuer speake theÌ„ as it is known that sum priests haue done manye yeares together Or what if the priest haue no intentioÌ„ or mynd to consecrate what case standeth the pore people theÌ„ in Or what thing is it that they worshyp Chrystes body cannot be there without coÌ„secration Consecration there can be none as they them selues haue taught if there misse ether pronuÌ„tiation an vtteraunce of y e words or elles purpose to coÌ„secrate intenton And howe can the people know w t what intentioÌ„ or mynd y priest goth to the masse Or whether he hath duly pronounced the wordes Or whether he hath coÌ„secrated or no And knowinge none of these things which in very dede is not possible for theÌ„ to know how can they be wel assured y t it is the body of Christ y t the priest holdeth vp wherunto they fall downe geue godly honor Thus by theyr own learniÌ„g y e people must nedes stand stil in doubt neâ—…er knowe certeÌ„li what they worship O good people think not y t I imagin these things of my self Our own aduer saries y t stand against vs in thys cause euen the famoust and best learned of them al haue sene and wrytten and confessed the same Alexander a Bishop of Rome wryting vpon the master of y e sentences taketh vp the mater on this sorte for as much as y e priests purpose his priuie 〈◊〉 about y â— consecration cannot be knowen y t therfore no man ought to worship the sacrament when it is holden vp but with this condition si ille consecrauerit That is If the Priest hath consecrated That is to say when ye se y e â—…acrament lifted vp ye must saye or thinke thus w t your self If this priesthath coÌ„secrated theÌ„do I wor ship it If he hath not consecrated theÌ„ do I not worship it This saith Alexander a Bishop of Rome But Thomas of Aquine leaueth the mater a litle more at large â–ª He saith Ista conditio non semper actu requiritur satis est habere habituÌ„ That is to say It shall not be nedefull at euery tyme to saye or to thinke thus whensoeuer ye knele down to worship but it shal be sufficient if ye haue a certein redines in your mynd to say or to thynke so Yet Holcot writynge likewyse vpon the master of the sentences saith thus Laicus adorat hostiam non consecratam ista fides sufficit illi ad saluationem tameÌ„ est erronea The lay maÌ„ saith he as it may sumtymes happen worshyppeth a wafer y â— is not consecrate This faith is sufficient vnto hym to his saluatioÌ„ and yet is it a false faith and erronious And farther he coÌ„cludeth in this sort Homo potest mereri per fideÌ„ erroneam etiaÌ„si coÌ„tiÌ„gat vt adoret diaboluÌ„ By these words we may se such as wil not content theÌ„ selues to be ordred by Gods wisdom how daungerously they runne headlong at the last Holcot was not the wurst learned man amongste them Yet to vpholde the erroure that he had once taken in hande to defende he was dryuen to confeâ—…se that a maÌ„ maye meede at Goddes hande by an erroneous and false fayth yea althoughe he worshyp the deuell This is the certeÌ„â—…y of y e doctrine that y e people of God of long tyme hath ben led in In y e highest heauenliest point of religioÌ„ y t is in y e worshippinge of God they them selues know not what they do It is true of them that Chryst saith to the woman of Samaria ye worship ye know not what Alas â–ª is this the honour y t is due to Christ Is this the worshipinge of God in spirit truth Is this y â— seking of Christ inheaueÌ„ But sum man will say these be 〈◊〉 and light maters and proue nothynge Such reportes I know are geueÌ„ abrode of all that is preached and taught this day that what soeuer is spokeÌ„ by any of vs is light and childish and not worth y â— hearing But the reporters hereof are