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cause_n good_a great_a let_v 3,168 5 4.0636 3 true
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A96167 An answer to W.R. his narration of the opinions and practises of the churches lately erected in Nevv-England. Vindicating those Godly and orthodoxall churches, from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their church way, by the said W.R. in his booke. Wherein is plainely proved, 1. That the grounds of his narration are sandie and insufficient. 2. That the maner of his handling it, unloving and irregular. 3. That the matter of it, ful of grosse mistakes & divers contradictions. 4. That the quotations extremely wrested, and out of measure abused. 5. That his marginall notes impertinent and injurious. / By Thomas Welde, Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in Nevv-England. This is licensed and entred according to order. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1644 (1644) Wing W1262; Thomason E3_18; ESTC R2769 70,175 76

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in_o christ_n jesus_n lead_v thou_o by_o the_o hand_n into_o all_o truth_n and_o peace_n thou_o t._n w._n the_o reader_n may_v take_v a_o short_a view_n of_o some_o particular_n in_o w._n r._n his_o narration_n as_o they_o be_v make_v to_o appear_v in_o his_o book_n by_o the_o page_n and_o line_n as_o follow_v unfound_a passage_n untrue_a relation_n falsify_v quotation_n page_n line_n page_n line_n page_n line_n 4_o 25_o 1_o 15_o 17_o 6_o 5_o 20_o 2_o 21_o 18_o 20_o 6_o 7._o 24._o 37_o 5_o 20_o 19_o 14._o 24_o 7_o 5._o 15_o 6_o 23_o 20_o 24_o 8_o 28_o 20_o 3._o 32._o ult._n 24_o 35_o 9_o whole_a page_n 25_o 2_o last_o 25_o 18._o 23_o 18_o 26_o 39_o 10_o 25_o 23._o 31._o 40_o 24_o 39_o 37_o whole_a pag._n  _fw-fr 26_o 5_o 29_o 17._o 28_o 38_o whole_a pag._n  _fw-fr 32_o 3_o last_o 36_o 28_o 51_o whole_a pag._n  _fw-fr 57_o 16_o 40_o 15_o 56_o 9_o 58_o 1._o 2._o 27_o 52_o 1._o 9_o 26_o 57_o 5._o 10._o ult._n 59_o 22_o 53_o 2._o 11._o 22_o 59_o 6._o 33_o 60_o 23_o etc._n etc._n 54_o 3._o 10_o 60_o 11_o 61_o 38_o 58_o 33_o 62_o 11._o 25._o ad_fw-la fin_n 62_o 11._o 25._o ad_fw-la fin_n 61_o 21._o 26_o 66_o 4_o last_o 63_o 1._o 9_o 64_o 1_o 9_o 25_o 67_o 6._o 12._o 22_o 64_o 14_o 65_o 13_o ad_fw-la finem_fw-la 68_o 4._o 7._o 12_o 67_o 25._o 18_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n in_o w._n r._n his_o narration_n that_o carry_v a_o face_n of_o contradiction_n i_o propound_v they_o to_o his_o review_n in_o his_o own_o word_n sense_n and_o page_n thus_o they_o stand_v that_o sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o the_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n only_o narration_n p._n 35._o art_n 5._o &_o vide_fw-la p._n 38._o art_n 4._o the_o church_n do_v and_o may_v mutualiy_v partake_v each_o with_o other_o in_o the_o sacrament_n p._n 37._o art_n 31._o p._n 10._o art_n 7_o that_o they_o conceive_v some_o to_o be_v true_a christian_n whether_o they_o be_v in_o church_n estate_n or_o no._n p._n 33._o art_n 1._o whosoever_o become_v not_o a_o settle_a member_n of_o a_o church_n they_o account_v he_o wicked_a profane_a and_o a_o graceless_a person_n p._n 29._o art_n 1._o p._n 12._o art_n 12._o new-england_n he_o say_v concern_v the_o judgement_n &_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n general_o in_o new-england_n that_o they_o may_v and_o do_v constitute_v new_a church_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a state_n p._n 20._o last_o line_n p_o 49._o art_n 2._o &_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o marg._n before_o they_o do_v enter_v into_o church_n estate_n notice_n be_v first_o give_v thereof_o to_o the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o christian_a state_n p._n 21._o art_n 4._o and_o by_o a_o law_n of_o the_o state_n none_o can_v enter_v without_o such_o knowledge_n give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n p._n 21._o art_n 2._o that_o they_o may_v and_o do_v set_v up_o new_a church_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o and_o against_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o church_n p._n 49._o art_n 2._o and_o latter_a end_n of_o margin_n notice_n be_v give_v thereof_o to_o the_o neighbour_a church_n that_o such_o as_o please_v may_v be_v present_a p._n 21._o art_n 4._o that_o the_o church-covenant_n be_v that_o whereby_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o society_n be_v unite_v to_o christ_n p._n 12._o art_n 1._o many_o be_v within_o the_o church-covenant_n that_o be_v not_o within_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n and_o so_o not_o unite_v to_o christ_n p._n 14._o art_n 3._o that_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n be_v of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o way_n in_o discipline_n without_o any_o material_a difference_n p._n 1._o art_n 1._o they_o be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o way_n but_o sometime_o of_o 2._o contrary_a way_n sometime_o of_o 3._o several_a way_n at_o once_o and_o that_o in_o very_o material_a point_n p._n 10._o art_n 8._o p._n 16._o art_n 8._o p._n 13._o art_n 3._o and_o 4._o p._n 27._o art_n 11._o objection_n 1_o but_o we_o in_o new-england_n go_v different_a way_n so_o the_o contradiction_n come_v from_o ourselves_o not_o from_o he_o answ_n no_o for_o we_o be_v all_o of_o the_o same_o way_n and_o differ_v not_o in_o any_o material_a point_n as_o himself_o plain_o say_v chap._n 1._o art_n 1._o 2_o his_o narration_n speak_v what_o the_o church_n in_o new-england_n do_v general_o as_o title_n p._n 1._o now_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o they_o can_v general_o go_v two_o way_n at_o once_o objection_n 2_o but_o our_o writer_n say_v so_o and_o he_o speak_v according_a to_o they_o answ_n then_o let_v he_o make_v this_o appear_v and_o that_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o do_v for_o his_o quote_v author_n speak_v the_o self_n same_o thing_n a_o answer_n to_o vv._n r._n his_o narration_n of_o the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n late_o erect_v in_o new-england_n a_o answer_n to_o the_o preface_n it_o will_v grieve_v a_o tender_a heart_n to_o hear_v this_o man_n call_v god_n and_o his_o conscience_n to_o witness_v how_o high_o he_o honour_v and_o love_v those_o that_o be_v in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o and_o by_o to_o assault_v with_o horrible_a 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themselves_o as_o i_o be_o inform_v by_o they_o that_o by_o some_o manifestation_n of_o their_o judgement_n and_o practice_n they_o may_v clear_v themselves_o from_o misapprehension_n and_o mistake_n so_o that_o if_o they_o do_v it_o not_o themselves_o be_v like_a to_o suffer_v most_o 3._o this_o they_o make_v performance_n of_o in_o their_o late_a apology_n so_o far_o as_o may_v satisfy_v in_o a_o rational_a way_n but_o if_o he_o expect_v more_o where_o lie_v the_o fault_n 4._o if_o they_o do_v not_o this_o so_o soon_o as_o he_o will_v have_v have_v they_o let_v he_o know_v the_o extreme_a distraction_n of_o these_o time_n and_o the_o public_a service_n of_o some_o of_o these_o brethren_n who_o be_v employ_v by_o the_o state_n for_o a_o good_a space_n together_o may_v just_o hinder_v great_a thing_n than_o this_o now_o see_v what_o little_a cause_n the_o narratour_n have_v to_o cast_v such_o a_o blot_n on_o the_o name_n of_o his_o honour_a brethren_n as_o he_o call_v they_o he_o say_v many_o w●re_o draw_v aside_o their_o church_n and_o ministry_n slight_v neglect_v desert_a yea_o contumelious_o and_o scornful_o reproach_v as_o antichristian_a babylonish_n false_a and_o null_a etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o such_o contemptuous_a speech_n &_o reproachful_a carriage_n cast_v upon_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o church_n here_o neither_o be_v or_o ever_o be_v allow_v by_o we_o yea_o our_o own_o example_n practising_n write_n do_v and_o we_o hope_v ever_o shall_v bear_v witness_n against_o such_o loose_a and_o lavish_a spirit_n and_o practice_n and_o can_v any_o man_n then_o just_o impute_v they_o unto_o we_o 11.3_o psal_n 11.3_o may_v we_o not_o say_v with_o the_o psalmist_n if_o the_o foundation_n be_v cast_v down_o what_o have_v the_o innocent_a do_v 2._o they_o be_v not_o alone_o in_o these_o reproach_n ourselves_o also_o be_v fellow-sufferer_n with_o they_o herein_o from_o divers_a sectary_n now_o in_o london_n who_o usual_a tone_n &_o dialect_v these_o word_n he_o mention_n be_v &_o not_o the_o voice_n of_o independent_o that_o some_o of_o our_o way_n contrary_a to_o our_o promise_n and_o paction_n have_v impetuous_o both_o in_o pulpit_n and_o press_n labour_v to_o promote_v the_o popular_a government_n &_o to_o make_v all_o man_n disrelish_v and_o abominate_a the_o presbyterian_a way_n answ_n 1_o a_o sad_a complaint_n if_o true_a but_o to_o show_v how_o far_o from_o this_o spirit_n and_o practice_v we_o have_v be_v consider_v first_o how_o loath_a we_o be_v to_o appear_v in_o the_o case_n who_o though_o we_o have_v book_n of_o this_o subject_a ready_a for_o the_o press_n yet_o by_o joint_a consent_n suppress_v they_o
art_n 10._o ●sw_n ●sw_n consider_v first_o 1_o the_o gift_n grace_n and_o ability_n of_o discern_v that_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n above_o any_o minister_n now_o live_v who_o as_o they_o be_v able_a to_o preach_v with_o less_o time_n of_o study_n so_o to_o dispatch_v and_o turn_v over_o weighty_a business_n with_o more_o speed_n and_o dexterity_n than_o we_o be_v 2_o the_o extraordinary_a wonderful_a and_o visible_a stroke_n of_o god_n upon_o the_o spirit_n and_o heart_n of_o man_n that_o hear_v peter_n at_o that_o time_n the_o meeting_n the_o language_n their_o understanding_n of_o it_o god_n assistance_n of_o peter_n and_o blessing_n on_o the_o word_n all_o extraordinary_a such_o a_o day_n such_o a_o sermon_n such_o effect_n as_o never_o be_v before_o nor_o like_v to_o be_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n so_o the_o power_n of_o god_n be_v remarkable_a in_o their_o conversion_n so_o also_o in_o their_o expression_n and_o demonstration_n of_o it_o so_o that_o there_o need_v little_a trial_n when_o god_n speak_v himself_o from_o heaven_n answer_v to_o chap._n vi_o he_o report_v to_o recite_v such_o thing_n only_o as_o most_o need_v answer_n and_o let_v the_o rest_n pass_v art_n 1._o 2._o that_o we_o hold_v that_o christ_n have_v invest_v with_o all_o power_n any_o that_o be_v in_o church-fellowship_n that_o though_o they_o be_v all_o illiterate_a yet_o they_o may_v make_v &_o examine_v all_o their_o officer_n &_o unmake_v &_o depose_v they_o when_o they_o see_v cause_n so_o to_o do_v and_o preach_v expound_v and_o apply_v the_o word_n with_o all_o authority_n yea_o and_o do_v it_o without_o any_o reference_n at_o all_o to_o their_o officer_n as_o officer_n when_o they_o have_v they_o ●nsw_n ●nsw_n if_o i_o do_v delight_n in_o retort_v i_o can_v say_v of_o these_o word_n as_o he_o of_o holland_n minister_n apology_n they_o be_v a_o mere_a gull_n for_o almost_o so_o many_o word_n so_o many_o mistake_n the_o narratour_n shall_v have_v do_v well_o first_o to_o have_v prove_v all_o the_o church_n and_o minister_n in_o new-england_n man_n out_o of_o their_o wit_n and_o void_a of_o common_a sense_n and_o then_o he_o may_v more_o easy_o have_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v they_o hold_v and_o practice_v such_o a_o congery_n of_o absurdity_n and_o impossibility_n for_o else_o many_o of_o they_o there_o be_v well_o know_v to_o be_v learn_v godly_a and_o sober_a man_n no_o wise_a man_n will_v believe_v he_o that_o they_o can_v hold_v that_o 1._o illiterate_a man_n can_v examine_v pastor_n fitness_n 2._o depose_v they_o at_o pleasure_n 3._o prithee_o expound_v and_o apply_v the_o word_n with_o all_o authority_n 4._o and_o that_o without_o any_o reference_n to_o their_o officer_n at_o all_o 5._o and_o which_o be_v m●st_o strange_a that_o christ_n himself_o have_v invest_v these_o illiterate_a one_o with_o all_o power_n to_o do_v all_o these_o thing_n for_o 1._o it_o be_v a_o receive_a practice_n among_o we_o that_o when_o any_o combine_v into_o a_o church_n there_o be_v one_o at_o least_o of_o they_o endue_v with_o able_a part_n of_o humane_a and_o divine_a learning_n that_o either_o have_v be_v a_o minister_n in_o our_o native_a country_n or_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v one_o among_o they_o who_o usual_o and_o frequent_o preach_v to_o they_o after_o they_o be_v unite_v so_o that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v not_o man_n illiterate_a ☜_o ☜_o and_o w._n r._n himself_o know_v this_o to_o be_v true_a for_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o 32._o quest_n 42._o which_o be_v very_a page_n he_o here_o quote_v direct_o say_v this_o in_o so_o many_o word_n 2._o that_o those_o illiterate_a man_n do_v examine_v their_o minister_n ability_n and_o that_o we_o hold_v they_o ought_v be_v another_o great_a mistake_n for_o so_o we_o shall_v put_v man_n upon_o a_o work_n beyond_o their_o reach_n which_o be_v idle_a whereas_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o if_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o such_o man_n as_o they_o intend_v to_o call_v into_o office_n be_v not_o well_o know_v to_o they_o they_o use_v to_o call_v in_o the_o help_n and_o assistance_n of_o elder_n in_o other_o church_n to_o survey_v their_o ability_n and_o to_o inform_v they_o therein_o that_o thereby_o as_o well_o as_o by_o their_o own_o experience_n of_o they_o and_o discern_v of_o their_o gift_n they_o may_v be_v able_a to_o give_v in_o their_o suffrage_n for_o election_n when_o the_o time_n come_v 3._o for_o their_o unmaking_n and_o depose_v they_o again_o when_o they_o see_v cause_n we_o hold_v and_o profess_v it_o a_o thing_n most_o injurious_a to_o jesus_n christ_n himself_o in_o heaven_n &_o to_o his_o minister_n on_o earth_n and_o such_o a_o thing_n as_o not_o only_a christ_n will_v summon_v church_n at_o the_o great_a day_n to_o answer_v unto_o but_o our_o church_n there_o will_v also_o expect_v satisfaction_n from_o they_o for_o it_o if_o they_o shall_v thus_o depose_v minister_n as_o he_o say_v when_o they_o see_v cause_n unless_o christ_n himself_o shall_v see_v good_a cause_n to_o allow_v their_o fact_n to_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o his_o own_o word_n we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o hold_v this_o that_o we_o protest_v against_o such_o practice_n and_o to_o show_v how_o wary_a we_o be_v in_o this_o point_n no_o church_n dare_v trust_v she_o own_o judgement_n but_o our_o manner_n be_v as_o his_o quote_v author_n speak_v answer_v to_o 34._o q._n of_o p._n 41._o our_o practice_n be_v in_o removal_n of_o minister_n to_o have_v counsel_n and_o assistance_n from_o sister_n church_n 4._o whereas_o he_o say_v also_o that_o we_o hold_v that_o man_n illiterate_a shall_v preach_v with_o all_o authority_n which_o be_v a_o work_n and_o a_o task_n for_o the_o able_a minister_n to_o perform_v be_v as_o far_o from_o we_o as_o any_o of_o the_o other_o for_o though_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o in_o some_o case_n some_o able_a judicious_a experience_a christian_n may_v humble_o &_o sober_o when_o necessity_n require_v as_o in_o the_o want_n of_o minister_n &_o 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this_o expression_n of_o he_o be_v contrary_a to_o his_o own_o narration_n in_o art_n 8._o where_o he_o say_v that_o some_o of_o the_o act_n we_o ascribe_v to_o our_o minister_n in_o office_n be_v to_o declare_v unto_o their_o people_n the_o mind_n of_o god_n and_o to_o moderate_v in_o church-meeting_n yet_o here_o he_o speak_v clean_o contrary_a to_o himself_o and_o the_o truth_n also_o ☞_o ☞_o 6._o for_o he_o to_o add_v that_o we_o hold_v that_o christ_n have_v invest_v these_o illiterate_a man_n with_o all_o power_n to_o do_v all_o these_o thing_n so_o far_o beyond_o their_o power_n and_o all_o ordinary_a possibility_n contrary_a to_o all_o rule_n and_o to_o his_o own_o institution_n be_v to_o put_v upon_o we_o one_o of_o the_o gross_a absurdity_n that_o ever_o be_v hear_v of_o even_o to_o make_v christ_n cross_v himself_o and_o to_o be_v a_o patron_n of_o confusion_n in_o his_o own_o house_n by_o invest_v they_o with_o all_o power_n to_o oppose_v his_o own_o rule_n of_o order_n 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verbal_a declaration_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n for_o if_o they_o be_v object_n 3_o subtle_a hypocrite_n they_o will_v deceive_v you_o with_o golden_a word_n as_o marg._n art_n 5._o 1._o it_o may_v and_o do_v satisfy_v our_o own_o conscience_n answ_n if_o we_o do_v use_v all_o mean_n we_o can_v to_o find_v out_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n whether_o grace_n be_v in_o they_o or_o no_o it_o they_o yet_o deceive_v we_o it_o be_v their_o sin_n not_o we_o 2._o god_n who_o often_o take_v the_o wise_a in_o their_o own_o craft_n 1_o cor._n 1.19_o lay_v open_v such_o hypocrite_n while_o they_o seek_v to_o deceive_v other_o as_o frequent_a experience_n have_v show_v we_o in_o the_o very_a act_n of_o their_o trial_n 3._o those_o that_o be_v sound_n do_v manifest_v the_o sweet_a smell_n of_o their_o grace_n by_o such_o declaration_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o bootless_a object_n it_o seem_v a_o thing_n impossible_a to_o such_o good_a soul_n as_o know_v not_o the_o time_n &_o manner_n of_o their_o conversion_n or_o have_v forget_v it_o to_o give_v account_n thereof_o satisfy_o to_o a_o multitude_n see_v also_o their_o manner_n of_o inquiry_n be_v strict_a and_o the_o matter_n inquire_v into_o the_o spiritual_a soul_n point_v answ_n 1._o we_o wonder_v we_o confess_v to_o see_v a_o christian_n a_o minister_n of_o god_n thus_o to_o speak_v if_o it_o seem_v so_o impossible_a for_o some_o christian_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n in_o they_o 3.15_o pet._n 3.15_o what_o mean_v peter_n to_o direct_v all_o believer_n to_o be_v always_o ready_a to_o give_v a_o answer_n to_o every_o man_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o they_o if_o they_o must_v give_v this_o answer_n to_o all_o even_o to_o persecutor_n themselves_o as_o the_o text_n intend_v of_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o hope_n be_v it_o impossible_a that_o these_o good_a soul_n shall_v render_v account_n to_o their_o godly_a brethren_n who_o in_o a_o love_a way_n demand_n it_o and_o for_o their_o own_o good_a too_o 2._o what_o if_o they_o know_v not_o the_o time_n order_n &_o manner_n of_o their_o conversion_n yet_o if_o they_o can_v give_v any_o evidence_n of_o christ_n now_o in_o they_o by_o the_o working_n of_o his_o spirit_n for_o present_a though_o they_o know_v not_o how_o christ_n come_v at_o first_o into_o they_o its_o sufficient_a object_n if_o a_o account_n of_o their_o grace_n must_v be_v give_v be_v it_o not_o better_a to_o have_v a_o set_v and_o stand_a rule_n write_v and_o record_v without_o variation_n in_o all_o the_o church_n ibid._n answer_n answer_n will_v he_o have_v we_o make_v a_o new-england_n primer_n a_o set_a form_n this_o be_v a_o way_n indeed_o to_o bring_v all_o to_o a_o formal_a course_n and_o to_o teach_v every_o one_o though_o no_o grace_n or_o experience_n at_o all_o of_o christ_n in_o his_o heart_n to_o learn_v by_o rote_n this_o form_n and_o then_o all_o be_v well_o w._n r._n be_v as_o we_o hear_v even_o now_o first_o for_o common_a prayer_n and_o then_o for_o overture_n and_o show_v and_o now_o you_o have_v he_o for_o stand_a form_n you_o shall_v see_v he_o go_v further_o anon_o be_v not_o your_o finger_n singe_v enough_o yet_o with_o such_o formality_n it_o be_v time_n to_o cease_v object_n through_o your_o strict_a examination_n multitude_n of_o our_o english_a in_o n._n e._n that_o be_v repute_v godly_a be_v keep_v out_o of_o church-order_n and_o themselves_o and_o little_a one_o little_o better_a than_o heathen_n marg._n on_o art_n 6._o ●●sw_n ●●sw_n many_o for_o want_v of_o examination_n of_o themselves_o and_o trial_n by_o other_o that_o go_v in_o common_a view_n for_o sound_a one_o possible_o and_o that_o not_o without_o good_a cause_n upon_o due_a trial_n may_v be_v find_v too_o light_a when_o weigh_v in_o god_n balance_n and_o its_o better_a for_o such_o to_o be_v discover_v here_o then_o hereafter_o to_o their_o eternal_a ruin_n 2._o many_o do_v keep_v out_o of_o church-order_n upon_o sundry_a 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object_n 7_o though_o otherwise_o godly_a keep_v out_o from_o your_o church_n marg_n to_o art_n 9_o 1._o if_o man_n opinion_n be_v such_o as_o destroy_v faith_n or_o the_o power_n of_o holiness_n answer_n as_o many_o in_o new-england_n late_o be_v though_o now_o lay_v prostrate_a by_o the_o light_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n or_o such_o as_o do_v direct_o cross_v and_o eradicave_a the_o fundamental_n of_o our_o church_n government_n and_o the_o person_n that_o hold_v these_o till_o opinion_n be_v factious_a and_o turbulent_a it_o be_v no_o wonder_n though_o we_o be_v slow_a in_o admit_v such_o as_o we_o know_v will_v destroy_v either_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n or_o our_o church_n peace_n but_o if_o they_o d●ffer_v only_o in_o some_o inferior_a point_n as_o you_o speak_v and_o be_v of_o sober_a spirit_n it_o be_v know_v we_o admit_v such_o and_o live_v in_o peace_n together_o with_o they_o 2._o we_o never_o know_v man_n of_o sour_a and_o cynical_a disposition_n natural_o 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untrue_a as_o harsh_a for_o as_o we_o wait_v on_o god_n to_o afford_v and_o on_o he_o to_o receive_v light_n so_o we_o be_v as_o glad_v when_o he_o be_v inform_v therein_o &_o be_v ready_a to_o open_v our_o church_n door_n wide_a to_o receive_v he_o some_o other_o thing_n more_o slight_a i_o pass_v by_o in_o his_o marginall_n on_o this_o chap._n for_o brevity_n the_o substance_n of_o all_o which_o may_v be_v refer_v to_o some_o or_o other_o of_o these_o head_n answer_v to_o chap._n four_o he_o say_v art_n 1._o 2._o 6._o 7._o that_o we_o account_v a_o public_a vocal_a and_o express_a covenant_n to_o be_v the_o only_a absolute_a necessary_a constitute_a form_n of_o a_o true_a church_n without_o which_o no_o true_a church_n nor_o true_a member_n but_o all_o 〈…〉_o concubine_n ●sw_n ●sw_n he_o utter_o mistake_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o question_n for_o those_o author_n he_o quote_v declare_v not_o what_o it_o be_v that_o make_v a_o true_a church_n but_o a_o ●v●●_n congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o be_v refine_v according_a to_o the_o platform_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o to_o such_o a_o church_n say_v they_o be_v require_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n and_o that_o they_o do_v intend_v only_o such_o a_o church_n be_v plain_a 1._o because_o there_o be_v in_o the_o description_n of_o that_o church_n they_o mean_v such_o particular_n as_o himself_o lay_v it_o down_o art_n 6._o as_o can_v belong_v only_o to_o a_o pure_a church_n as_o 1_o that_o they_o walk_v in_o all_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n 2_o accord_n to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n 3_o in_o one_o congregation_n all_o which_o we_o know_v every_o church_n though_o true_a do_v not_o ergo_fw-la 2._o if_o we_o hold_v that_o to_o every_o true_a church_n
business_n as_o in_o the_o sight_n &_o presence_n of_o god_n with_o fast_v &_o prayer_n at_o least_o shall_v stop_v man_n mouth_n from_o speak_v ill_o of_o they_o and_o their_o way_n yet_o w._n r._n fail_v in_o his_o deal_n with_o they_o in_o divers_a point_n which_o i_o desire_v to_o advertise_v he_o of_o in_o the_o spirit_n of_o meekness_n in_o that_o offensive_a phrase_n say_v those_o person_n come_v now_o to_o be_v church_n he_o well_o know_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o word_n it_o do_v not_o become_v gravity_n and_o holiness_n to_o give_v such_o deride_v word_n nor_o ludere_fw-la cum_fw-la sanctis_fw-la god_n hear_v all_o our_o word_n and_o see_v the_o scope_n of_o our_o heart_n therein_o but_o if_o he_o mean_v innocent_o in_o it_o i_o shall_v be_v sorry_a that_o i_o once_o name_v it_o he_o speak_v twice_o both_o in_o art_n 6._o and_o 8._o of_o the_o messenger_n of_o the_o magistrate_n s●nt_v to_o the_o gather_n of_o the_o church_n ●nsw_n ●nsw_n but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o 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less_o charity_n ●ns_n ●ns_n here_o be_v many_o unwise_a and_o uncharitable_a passage_n lay_v unjust_o to_o our_o charge_n and_o all_o those_o without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o but_o only_a h._n w._n i._o w._n &_o who_o know_v where_o to_o consult_v with_o they_o as_o 1._o that_o any_o slander_n by_o yea_o all_o comer_n may_v question_v or_o object_n 2._o and_o that_o even_o what_o they_o please_v 3._o if_o any_o fail_n be_v in_o their_o life_n they_o be_v present_o and_o open_o declare_v before_o all_o the_o country_n which_o thing_n be_v nothing_o so_o for_o 1._o none_o may_v speak_v a_o word_n but_o sober_o and_o orderly_o and_o 2._o not_o without_o leave_v desire_v and_o grant_v 3._o nor_o how_o much_o he_o will_v nor_o what_o he_o please_v but_o thing_n very_o weighty_a and_o necessary_a and_o 4._o not_o of_o any_o fail_n to_o their_o disparagement_n for_o if_o they_o be_v unsatisfied_a with_o any_o of_o they_o in_o point_n of_o discipline_n or_o matter_n of_o fact_n they_o be_v first_o to_o deal_v with_o they_o in_o private_a see_v they_o know_v before_o both_o the_o person_n that_o be_v then_o to_o join_v and_o the_o time_n and_o occasion_n of_o that_o day_n meeting_n and_o i_o be_o confident_a never_o a_o godly_a sober_a man_n will_v write_v other_o wise_a it_o be_v little_a wisdom_n or_o charity_n i_o be_o sure_a for_o he_o to_o affirm_v thing_n so_o contrary_a to_o the_o truth_n that_o if_o the_o m_o ssenger_n be_v unsatisfied_a with_o any_o of_o those_o that_o be_v about_o to_o enter_v into_o church_n fellowship_n they_o be_v forbid_v to_o enter_v into_o church_n estate_n answer_n answer_n this_o be_v as_o wide_a as_o the_o rest_n for_o the_o messenger_n never_o arrogate_a to_o themselves_o such_o power_n to_o this_o day_n nay_o they_o profess_o express_v against_o it_o constant_o in_o such_o meeting_n as_o to_o forbid_v their_o entrance_n into_o church_n estate_n the_o most_o they_o do_v at_o any_o time_n in_o this_o case_n be_v to_o desire_v leave_n to_o be_v faithful_a in_o interpose_v their_o counsel_n and_o that_o only_a when_o they_o see_v very_o great_a cause_n and_o withal_o leave_v they_o to_o their_o christian_a liberty_n now_o have_v answer_v to_o the_o article_n we_o will_v speak_v something_o to_o those_o of_o the_o marginall_n on_o this_o 5._o chapter_n which_o be_v not_o touch_v already_o he_o tell_v we_o mar._n to_o art_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v too_o many_o here_o who_o run_v the_o same_o church-course_n with_o we_o that_o hold_v that_o the_o magistrate_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o the_o first_o table_n but_o 1._o he_o know_v or_o may_v know_v at_o least_o that_o this_o opinion_n be_v utter_o against_o our_o judgement_n practice_n and_o establish_v jaw_n in_o new-england_n answ_n therefore_o it_o no_o way_n concern_v we_o 2._o nor_o do_v it_o any_o whit_n reflect_v upon_o our_o cause_n which_o he_o be_v too_o ready_a upon_o this_o or_o any_o occasion_n to_o disgrace_n for_o none_o be_v more_o dependent_a upon_o magistracy_n than_o those_o they_o call_v independent_n from_o who_o principle_n they_o never_o suck_v that_o dangerous_a opinion_n therefore_o he_o do_v not_o well_o to_o give_v such_o by-blow_n to_o innocent_a person_n and_o way_n 3._o if_o this_o shall_v be_v a_o blot_n to_o our_o cause_n that_o some_o of_o our_o churchway_n hold_v ill_a opinion_n let_v he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o none_o of_o his_o way_n be_v gross_o taint_v with_o popish_a and_o arminian_n leavin_n or_o else_o blot_v out_o this_o margin_n he_o say_v margin_n to_o art_n 2._o it_o seem_v to_o he_o we_o have_v little_o less_o than_o a_o compound_n presbytery_n set_v up_o among_o we_o and_o church-canon_n in_o act_n though_o not_o in_o rule_n and_o give_v his_o instance_n for_o this_o 1._o as_o it_o be_v say_v he_o a_o agreement_n among_o the_o church_n and_o minister_n that_o no_o church_n shall_v be_v set_v up_o there_o without_o the_o knowledge_n of_o other_o church_n there_o be_v a_o compound_n presbytery_n 2._o that_o no_o man_n shall_v preach_v or_o vent_v any_o new_a or_o uncouth_a tenant_n until_o first_o he_o have_v communicate_v they_o with_o his_o fellow_n minister_n a_fw-la very_a good_a canon_n 3._o that_o such_o as_o be_v to_o enter_v into_o church_n estate_n do_v use_n to_o meet_v together_o before_o hand_n to_o acquaint_v themselves_o in_o private_a with_o each_o other_o spiritual_a estate_n a_fw-la canon_n 1._o do_v canon_n bound_v people_n to_o obedience_n answer_n so_o far_o only_o as_o they_o please_v to_o agree_v unto_o they_o and_o no_o further_o these_o canon_n be_v a_o agreement_n 2_o do_v presbytery_n consist_v of_o whole_a church_n for_o he_o say_v as_o it_o be_v a_o agreement_n of_o church_n as_o well_o as_o minister_n its_o little_a less_o than_o a_o compound_n presbytery_n if_o minister_n and_o people_n both_o do_v rule_v who_o shall_v be_v rule_v over_o by_o this_o presbytery_n 3._o he_o answer_v the_o thing_n and_o contradict_v himself_o both_o at_o once_o for_o he_o say_v art_n 2._o this_o give_a notice_n to_o magistrate_n and_o church_n of_o a_o church_n to_o be_v erect_v be_v by_o a_o law_n of_o the_o general_a court_n and_o can_v be_v as_o he_o say_v in_o margin_n and_o agreement_n of_o church_n therefore_o no_o ecclesiastical_a canon_n suppose_v many_o godly_a minister_n in_o london_n shall_v agree_v among_o themselves_o that_o every_o one_o shall_v preach_v down_o the_o superstition_n of_o that_o they_o call_v christmas_n and_o promise_v each_o other_o that_o till_o they_o shall_v give_v in_o their_o reason_n to_o the_o contrary_a they_o will_v not_o preach_v for_o or_o against_o discipline_n will_v w._n r._n call_v this_o agreement_n a_o presbytery_n or_o a_o canon_n let_v he_o see_v then_o how_o extreme_o wide_a he_o be_v in_o the_o other_o if_o church_n say_v he_o send_v deputy_n or_o messenger_n to_o represent_v themselves_o and_o to_o act_v in_o their_o room_n why_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n as_o well_o marg._n to_o art_n 6._o ●nsw_n ●nsw_n if_o church_n send_v their_o messenger_n or_o choose_v man_n to_o confer_v and_o consult_v only_o in_o a_o synod_n in_o their_o name_n without_o any_o authority_n of_o conclude_v and_o determine_v of_o matter_n or_o much_o less_o bind_v their_o church_n to_o what_o they_o determine_v of_o which_o be_v our_o case_n in_o new-england_n as_o we_o have_v say_v i_o know_v nothing_o against_o such_o a_o practice_n but_o if_o synod_n do_v more_o and_o go_v further_o his_o allegation_n be_v to_o no_o purpose_n if_o so_o much_o time_n say_v he_o be_v spend_v in_o join_v seven_o or_o eight_o person_n together_o into_o one_o church_n how_o much_o time_n will_v be_v requisite_a to_o join_v 3000_o together_o but_o the_o apostle_n go_v a_o short_a way_n marg._n to_o
and_o write_v in_o the_o margin_n cold_a comfort_n to_o christstian_a parent_n and_o cold_a charity_n to_o their_o infant_n ●nsw_n ●nsw_n 1._o it_o be_v cold_a comfort_n indeed_o if_o that_o he_o say_v be_v true_a but_o bless_v be_v god_n it_o be_v not_o so_o for_o though_o such_o infant_n be_v not_o as_o yet_o member_n of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a church_n there_o yet_o he_o know_v we_o account_v they_o and_o their_o parent_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o england_n witness_v our_o writing_n in_o print_n discourse_n of_o covenant_n pag._n 36._o etc._n etc._n therefore_o he_o much_o forget_v himself_o to_o say_v we_o account_v they_o to_o be_v without_o the_o visible_a church_n 2._o to_o say_v we_o esteem_v they_o as_o child_n of_o turk_n and_o heathen_n be_v a_o most_o uncharitable_a and_o groundless_a censure_n unworthy_a of_o his_o pen_n or_o our_o practice_n to_o which_o we_o answer_v before_o the_o lord_n forgive_v he_o such_o hard_a speech_n for_o his_o quotation_n ans_fw-fr to_o 33._o q._n 20._o 21._o and_o ans_fw-fr to_o 9_o pos_fw-la 61._o 62_o if_o they_o will_v afford_v he_o the_o least_o word_n or_o show_v for_o either_o of_o these_o particular_n i_o will_v take_v the_o blame_n for_o ever_o let_v any_o please_v to_o peruse_v they_o but_o he_o forget_v the_o law_n in_o israel_n of_o amerce_v and_o stripe_v the_o man_n that_o bring_v a_o ill_a report_n upon_o a_o virgin_n of_o israel_n i_o must_v mind_v he_o of_o it_o answer_v to_o chap._n viii_o this_o chapter_n be_v spend_v especial_o the_o margin_n in_o invective_n against_o the_o strictness_n of_o our_o church_n covenant_n that_o restrain_v man_n that_o they_o can_v have_v elbow_n room_n and_o be_v at_o loose_a end_n when_o they_o please_v i_o will_v gather_v the_o strength_n of_o all_o he_o speak_v in_o this_o chapter_n into_o some_o objection_n and_o very_o brief_o answer_v they_o object_n a_o member_n say_v he_o can_v remove_v from_o a_o church_n without_o our_o consent_n seek_v and_o obtain_v art_n 1._o ●ns_n ●ns_n it_o cross_v the_o nature_n of_o all_o covenant_n in_o the_o world_n for_o to_o dissolve_v the_o covenant_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o other_o and_o shall_v this_o engagement_n so_o solemn_a so_o sacred_a so_o deliberate_a be_v loose_v at_o pleasure_n by_o a_o man_n removal_n when_o &_o whither_o he_o please_v &_o it_o may_v be_v also_o not_o without_o apparent_a sin_n without_o acquaint_v the_o church_n withal_o &_o get_v approbation_n from_o they_o the_o church_n may_v be_v partial_a in_o their_o own_o cause_n may_v not_o some_o of_o other_o church_n object_n 2_o be_v consult_v withal_o rather_o than_o this_o pag._n 32._o marg._n shall_v a_o man_n infringe_v this_o covenant_n answ_n deprive_v the_o church_n of_o her_o proper_a right_n and_o lay_v she_o under_o blame_n of_o partiality_n upon_o a_o mere_a supposal_n that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v partial_a let_v this_o church_n be_v first_o consult_v withal_o rather_o than_o any_o other_o and_o good_a reason_n too_o for_o the_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o she_o and_o if_o it_o appear_v she_o be_v indeed_o partial_a then_o let_v the_o counsel_n of_o other_o church_n and_o minister_n be_v call_v in_o which_o be_v never_o yet_o deny_v any_o member_n and_o i_o hope_v never_o will_v be_v but_o what_o need_v a_o man_n consult_v with_o the_o whole_a church_n what_o if_o his_o reason_n be_v secret_a object_n 3_o etc._n etc._n the_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o the_o whole_a answ_n reason_n speak_v the_o whole_a aught_o to_o untie_v the_o knot_n but_o if_o there_o be_v some_o case_n extraordinary_a where_o the_o ground_n of_o removal_n may_v not_o safe_o be_v divulge_v to_o all_o as_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v possible_a so_o to_o happen_v let_v the_o party_n but_o intimate_v so_o much_o to_o the_o church_n and_o desire_v that_o some_o two_o ot_fw-mi three_o faithful_a man_n be_v entrust_v and_o what_o hinder_v if_o the_o church_n covenant_n bind_v so_o fast_o than_o as_o the_o disciple_n say_v of_o marriage_n object_n 4_o it_o be_v not_o good_a to_o touch_v this_o covenant_n pag._n 32._o 1._o a_o gracious_a sp_z irit_n count_v it_o no_o bondage_n but_o freedom_n answ_n to_o be_v constant_o under_o the_o sweet_a yoke_n of_o christ_n in_o gospel_n duty_n and_o such_o and_o no_o other_o be_v the_o particular_n of_o our_o covenant_n ah_o 21.5.6_o ex._n 21.5.6_o let_v none_o be_v weary_a of_o this_o but_o all_o be_v as_o the_o servant_n in_o the_o law_n that_o may_v have_v go_v out_o free_a yet_o love_v his_o master_n well_o choose_v rather_o to_o abide_v with_o he_o for_o ever_o 2._o yet_o it_o any_o man_n be_v desirous_a and_o steadfast_o bend_v to_o depart_v the_o church_n never_o hold_v he_o against_o his_o will_n though_o she_o see_v little_a or_o no_o weight_n in_o his_o reason_n and_o i_o hope_v it_o be_v not_o the_o case_n of_o marriage_n so_o easy_o to_o be_v dissolve_v but_o if_o the_o church_n be_v not_o satisfy_v with_o his_o reason_n he_o go_v away_o tacit_o accuse_v object_n 5_o slander_v yea_o virtual_o cast_v out_o and_o curse_v sure_o i_o be_o this_o be_v accuse_v slanderous_a and_o curse_a language_n ans_fw-fr 19_o deut_n 22._o ●_o 19_o not_o fit_a for_o a_o sober_a &_o grave_a man_n by_o that_o law_n in_o israel_n w._n r._n will_v go_v near_o to_o be_v amercy_v and_o stripe_v for_o this_o defamation_n what_o will_v he_o have_v they_o do_v when_o they_o can_v be_v satisfy_v with_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o departure_n must_v they_o needs_o act_v against_o light_n and_o conscience_n and_o say_v they_o be_v satisfy_v when_o they_o be_v not_o especial_o when_o they_o see_v a_o brother_n haply_o run_v into_o evil_n or_o danger_n by_o such_o a_o removal_n all_o they_o can_v do_v be_v through_o indulgence_n to_o suspend_v their_o vote_n and_o leave_v he_o to_o his_o own_o liberty_n and_o yet_o they_o will_v neither_o accuse_v or_o slander_v he_o much_o less_o curse_v he_o or_o cast_v he_o out_o these_o be_v word_n fit_a for_o nothing_o but_o retraction_n and_o repentance_n if_o man_n be_v once_o ●●tred_v into_o covenant_n he_o be_v so_o rivet_v into_o it_o that_o he_o can_v hardly_o object_n 6_o ever_o get_v out_o of_o it_o but_o must_v continue_v in_o it_o though_o perhaps_o against_o his_o conscience_n ibid._n answ_n to_o my_o best_a remembrance_n i_o never_o hear_v of_o or_o know_v any_o godly_a church-member_n that_o repent_v of_o this_o churchway_n &_o desire_v upon_o that_o ground_n to_o make_v a_o retreat_n 2._o if_o any_o shall_v be_v convince_v in_o his_o conscience_n as_o you_o say_v that_o there_o be_v sin_n in_o it_o and_o shall_v after_o all_o mean_n of_o information_n use_v solemn_o profess_v and_o make_v it_o appear_v ingenuous_o that_o he_o dare_v not_o in_o conscience_n proceed_v on_o in_o those_o way_n i_o know_v no_o church_n that_o will_v detain_v he_o object_n 7_o how_o shall_v this_o man_n thus_o dismiss_v without_o the_o church_n approbation_n and_o letter_n of_o recommendation_n be_v receive_v into_o any_o other_o church_n answer_n answer_n how_o many_o line_n do_v he_o spend_v to_o no_o purpose_n about_o untie_v this_o knot_n and_o when_o he_o can_v unloose_v it_o ☞_o ☞_o for_o that_o he_o know_v not_o our_o practice_n there_o he_o fall_v out_o extreme_o with_o we_o and_o our_o way_n as_o harsh_a and_o rigid_a i_o have_v read_v of_o harpia_n a_o lame_a woman_n in_o seneca_n who_o still_o complain_v of_o the_o roughness_n of_o the_o way_n that_o make_v she_o limp_v but_o faw_fw-we not_o her_o own_o lameness_n to_o be_v the_o cause_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o make_v application_n but_o unloose_v his_o knot_n by_o tell_v he_o though_o a_o church_n can_v see_v cause_n enough_o to_o commend_v such_o a_o person_n as_o we_o speak_v of_o to_o another_o church_n for_o his_o departure_n from_o they_o as_o be_v not_o clear_a in_o it_o themselves_o yet_o he_o be_v a_o godly_a man_n and_o of_o a_o good_a conversation_n in_o the_o general_a they_o may_v and_o do_v use_v to_o commend_v he_o for_o his_o godliness_n etc._n etc._n and_o in_o prudence_n conceal_v any_o suppose_a error_n or_o infirmity_n in_o his_o departure_n from_o they_o and_o upon_o such_o a_o testimony_n he_o be_v receive_v and_o so_o need_v not_o be_v leave_v as_o a_o heathen_a answer_v to_o chap._n ix_o the_o first_o thing_n meet_v we_o be_v a_o contradiction_n for_o here_o he_o say_v in_o plain_a term_n ☞_o ☞_o that_o we_o in_o new-england_n conceive_v man_n may_v be_v true_a christian_n whether_o they_o be_v in_o church_n estate_n or_o no._n but_o chap._n 7._o art_n 1._o he_o affirm_v absolute_o that_o whosoever_o be_v not_o a_o settle_a member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v account_v by_o we_o profane_a and_o wicked_a answer_n