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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69753	The generall demands, of the reverend doctors of divinitie, and ministers of the Gospell in Aberdene, concerning the late covenant, in Scotland together, with the answeres, replyes, and duplyes that followed thereupon, in the year, 1638 : reprinted in one book, by order of Parliament.	Forbes, John, 1593-1648.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.	1663 (1663)	Wing C4226; Wing C4225; ESTC R6298	125,063	170

forgotten to many wise and ancient Pastors and Professors who did also finde an unwonted flame warming their own breasts the plots and workings of the Adversary have wrought against their own Projects and have served for our ends more then all that have been thought or done by our selves that we may justly say what they devised for evill the LORD hath turned to good many thousands conveened diverse times in one place have been keept in such order and quietnesse without the smallest trouble in such sobernesse and temperance without excesse or ryot that hardly can History furnish a Paralell and what effects there be already throughout the Land of Piety in Domesticke worship in observing the exercises of Religion in publick of soberness in dyet and apparell and of Righteousnesse and Concord we trust shall be sensible by the Blessings of GOD upon us and shall be examplary to the Posterity These we present unto you and unto all as a Commentary written by the LORDS own Hand wishing again that neither ye nor others be found fighting against GOD. Who so is wise and will observe these things even they shall understand the loving kindnesse of the LORD Psal. 107. 43. LORD when thy hand is lifted up they will not see but they shall see and be ashamed for their envy at the People Isai. 26. 11. Master ALEXANDER HENDERSON Minister at Leuchars Master DAVID DICKSON Minister at Irwin DUPLYES Of the MINISTERS and PROFESSORS of ABERDENE TO The second Answeres of some Reverend Brethren CONCERNING THE LATE COVENANT If thou take forth the precious from the vyle thou shalt be as my mouth Let them returne unto thee but returne not thou unto them JEREM. 15. 19. Honour all men love the Brotherhood feare GOD Honour the KING 1. Pet. 2. 17. To the Unpartiall READER IT may be you have not as yet heard the true relation of our proceedings and carriage towards those two reverend Brethren who came lately hither to recommend to us and our People the late Covenant We declare therefore to you that we hearing of their comming and intention and being of a contrary minde resolved that before we should give consent that they should preach to our people we would propone to them by way of certaine Demands the chiefe reasons which made us to be averse from their proceedings promising to admit them to our pulpits if they should give us satisfaction concerning the late Covenant We intended not to print these Demands at the first but afterwards considering how much our people might be confirmed by them in that pious resolution which they have to continue in the obedience of the Lawes of this Church and Kingdome concerning Episcopacy and those things which were concluded in Pearth Assembly we thought good to put them to the Presse but determined not to make use of them by divulgating them except we saw that our people stood in present need of them which indeed came to passe for upon Fryday the twenty of Iullie last these reverend Brethren came to this Town and having that same night received our Demands in writ they returned their Answeres unto them on Saturday following late in the evening but they came no● to our hands who replyed unto them untill Sunday in the morning Neither had we leasure to reade or consider untill both the Sermons were ended in our Churches Wherefore we did meet together that day at foure houres afternoone that we might peruse them And at that same time hearing that these reverend Brethren had preached in audience of dyverse of our people conveened in the court of a Noble-man his lodging not having obtained our consent thereto and in their Sermons had used a forme of answering to our Demandes which they did publickly reade affirming that they had given full satisfaction to us in a written copie of their Answeres which they had sent to us and by that means had laboured to disswade and draw our People from their obedience unto the Articles of Pearth and the Lawes of this Kingdome ratifying them we knowing how insufficient their Answeres were to give satisfaction to any who would duely ponder our Demands gave licence to the Printer to devulgate them and the next day did write our Replyes to their Answeres intending to put them to the Presse on tuesday But we were earnestly entreated by a noble Man to send backe to them the copie of their Answeres that they might revise and perfect them and also to delay the printing of our Replyes untill Fryday following Which we willingly granted But wherefore this was desired of us you may conjecture seeing they neither added nor diminished nor altered any thing in their Answeres Upon the next Friday at night we gave our Replyes to the Printer and to these reverend Brethren who returned not to this Citie untill Saturday following we sent a copie of our Replyes in write on the LORDS Day unto which we received not their Answeres untill they came from the Presse to wit on Tuesday the fourteenth of August that is eyghteene dayes after they had received our Replyes What successe these Brethren had in their Sermons which they preached here upon two severall LORDS Dayes it is sufficiently known neither have they reason to talke so much of it as they doe in their Preface to the Reader The first of these dayes some few who were thought to be that way inclined before subscryved their Covenant But the next LORDS Day they scarce prevailed with any at all And a great many who heard them both these dayes professed that they returned from their Sermons more averse from the Covenant then they were before Now good Reader we present to thee our Replyes to their second Answeres which for shortnesse cause we have called Duplyes we pray you consider them unpartially And if you reap any benefite by perusing them let it no● be ascrived unto us but to the invincible force of divine Trueth We conclude with Zer●babell saying Blessed be the GOD of Trueth And let all the People shout and say Great is Trueth and mighty above all thinges To our Reverend Brethren Mr. ALEXANDER HENDERSON And Mr. DAVID DICKSON THat your Answeres Reverend and Deare Brethren have not in any degree satisfied us we impute it not to your weaknesse whom we know to be able Men and much exercised in the matters debated betwixt us but we impute it to the weaknesse of your cause and to that inabilitie which is in all men as well as in you to beare out against the Trueth We are sory that ye are not so respective and favourable in your judgement of us for ye plainly declare in your Preface that ye suspect us of prejudice and that for two reasons The first is that our Demands which yee conceived had been meerely intended for you were published before your comming in Print as also that our REPLYES were Printed before we received your last Answeres to them When●e ye conclude that wee were rather aiming at victory moved

Majesty we do heartily thankfully acknowledge them to be truely conforme to his Majesties gracious declaration in that his last Proclamation And indeed it becommeth both you and us to think s● of them Neither do we take upon us to harbour in our breasts any uncharitable suspition concerning the intētions of those others of whom ye speak seeing they stand or fall to their own Master and the thoughts of their hearts are unknown both to you and us and in a matter uncertaine it is surest to judge charitably Yea we have ma●●y pregna●● Arguments to perswade us that those reverend Prelates and their Associates had no such intention as ye judge 8. Ye make mention of three wrongs done by us to you the one in the Warning whereof ye have an answer already given in our 12. Duply where ye did use great exaggerations then either the intentiō of the warner did merit ●● became your chartiy and profession And by your repetition of it in th●● place ye show that ye have too great delight to dwell upon such expostulations wheras theologicall reasons of the matter in controversie would better become you in such a Disput. The second wrong is that as ye alleadge we have wronged you in with-holding our hand and help from so good a cause of purging Religion reforming the Kirk from so many gross abuses and opposing all those who have modestly laboured for Reformation But certainly the wrong is done to us by you in that ye do without warra●● of Authority obtrude upon us and those cōmitted to our charges the swearing of an Oath which is against our own consciences and because of our just refusall opposition ye do wrong us also in misinterpreting our pious and upright meanings and in making and stirring up collaterall and personall quarells against us and threatning us therwith Thus if GOD by his special grace did not uphold us might we be driven by worldly terrours to do against the light of our own consciences 9. The third wrong wherwith ye charge us and for the which ye do infinuate that we may fear trouble is as ye alleadge in our speaches in publick and private and in our missives c. Hereunto we answer ●● in our former Replyes that whensoever it shall please you to specifie these speaches we hope to give you and all peaceably disposed christians full satisfaction and to clear our selves of that imputation so that none shall have just reason to work us any trouble In the mean time if our ing●nuity would permit us as it dothnot to think it a decent course to make use of hearkeners and catchers of words and to wait for the haulting of our Brethren some of your own speaches might be represented unto you wherein ye would finde weaknesse 10. As for these owtward or externall Arguments which ye bring here to prove your Covenanting to be the work of God from the success of your enterprize from the multitude of subscrivers and from their contentment from their good carriage which we wold wish in many of them to be more charitable and peaceable and so more christian then it is we cannot acknowledge to be a Cōmentary written by the Lords own hand as ye pretend in approbation of your Covenant unless ye first clearly show us the text or substance of your Covenant to be written in the holy Scriptures in all points therof especially in those points wherin ye and we do controvert and which only at this time can be pretended against us seeing we make oppsition only in those points And we wish heartily that leaving these weak nots of Trueth to the Papists chief acclaimers of them amongst christians that we speak nothing of aliens from christianity ye would be pleased to adhere with us into the holy Scriptures as the only sure perfect rule of true Religion and the heavenly Lamp which God hath given us to show us the way of trueth peace wherin the GOD of Trueth and Peace direct all our steps for JESUS CHRIST our Saviour who is our Peace To him be Glory for ever Amen JOHN FORBES of Corse Doctor and Professor of Divinitie in ABERDENE ROBERT BARON Doctor and Professor of Divinitie and Minister in ABERDENE ALEXANDER SCROGIE Minister at old Aberdene D. D. WILLIAM LESLIE D. D. and Principall of the KINGS Colledge in ABERDENE JA SIBBALD D. of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE AL ROSSE D. of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE FINIS Lōd edit ann 1616 pag. 200. 201. XII Tabularum fragmenta de officio consulis Regio imperio duo sunto iique praeeundo indicando consulendo praetores judices cōsules appel lantor militiae summum jus habento ne mini paren to Salus populi suprema lex esto a Quid ergo turbamini volens nunquam vos deseram coactus repugnare nō novi Dolere potero potero slere potero gemere adversus arma milites Gothos quoque La●rhymae mea arma sunt Talia enim munimenta sunt sacerdotis Aliter nec debeo nec possum resistere b Non ego mi vallabo circumfusione populorum Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus Tradere Basilicam non possum sed repugnare non debeo Interest enim quibque causis quibusque authoribꝰ homines gerenda bella suscipiant ordo tamen ille naturalis mortalium pa●i accomodatus hoc poscit ut suscipiendi belli authoritas atqu● consilium penes Principem sit Aug. Lib. 22. contra Faustum Cap. 75. Hugo Grorius de jure belli pacis l●b 1 cap. 4. num 6. Averroe● 5. Metaphys comment 6. See Hugo Grotius de Iure belli pacis Pag. 66. where he citeth sundry anciēt Authors Rivet in his Iesuita vapulans Cap. 13. Ambrose in obitum Val●tiniani See Doctor Field in his 3. book of the Church Cap. 32. Altare Da mascen p. 828. and 853. Re-examination of the Assemblie of Pearth pag. 227. In regulis juris in sexto Reg. 42. Gregorie Nazianz. Orat. 40. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Upō these wordes Nicetas his Interpreter speaketh thus Baptismum suscipe quamd●u minime circum te pugnant is qui te baptismi aqua tingere parat qui poecuniarum tuarum haeres futurus est Ille videlicet studiose age●s atque contendens ut ea quae ad vitae exitum necessaria sunt suppeditet hoc est ut te salutari aqua tingat dominicum corpus impertiat hic contra ut testamento haeres scribatur Consilium Nicenum Can. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Balsamon his wordes are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Altare Da ma●cen p. 341. disp against the English Popish Ceremonies Part. 3. Cap. 1. See thē Dispute against the English Popish Ceremonies part 3. cap 7. sect 5. The late Confession of Helvetia cap. 27 Confession of Bohem. cap. 15. English Confession art 15. Cōfession of Auspurg art 15. art 7. Confession of Wirtemberg art 35. Confession of Sweveland cap. 14. Calvin Institut lib. 4. cap. 10. §.

better then ye have hither-to done 3. What the most honourable Lords of His Majesties Privy Counsell have done concerning the Kings Majesties last Proclamation is not sufficiently known to us and farre lesse upon what Grounds and Motives they have as you say rescinded their Approbation of the late Proclamation 4. His Majesties Religious and Righteous Disposition hath been to us and is a maine ground wherefore we rest and relye upon his gracious Proclamation perswading our selves that he intendeth not nor never intended any Innovation in Religion 5. We shall labour by all meanes to eschew every thing which in the least degree may wrong you our Reverend and worthy Brethren As for the Wrongs already done by us to you as yee pretend when-so-ever it shall please you to specifie them we hope to give you full satisfaction and to cleare our selves of that Imputation 6. The worke of GOD towards any Nation how strange and wonderfull so-ever it seem to be is never contrary to his Word and therefore we feare not to be found fighting against GODS Worke so long as we fight not against his Trueth revealed in his Word That all-seeing LORD knoweth that we mentaine his Trueth according to the light of our Consciences and are ready to joyne Heart and Hand with you for the Purity and Peace of this Church in every lawfull way course as sincere lovers of Trueth and Peace And now Brethren before we conclude againe we entreat you and all others our deare Countrey-men especially our reverend Bretheren of the holy Ministrie to judge charitablie of us and of our proceedings at this time and in particular of these our Demandes and Replyes which GOD is our witnesse neither hatred of any mans person nor love of Contention nor any worldly respect but only the Conscience of our Calling hath drawn from us And as for our Arguments for not Subscriving which are taken from our due subjection and obedience to our Soveraigne and his Lawes we protest and declare that they ought not to be so interpreted as if we intended to accuse you or others our dear Countrey-men of Disloyaltie towards our most Gracious KING or as if our purpose were to lay any such Imputation upon you for they are only used by us to show what the wordes of the Covenant seem to us to import and how we conceive of them as also what maketh us so to conceive of them We doubt not reverend Brethren but ye know that as we owe to you and to your Proceedings the favourable judgment of Charitie so we ought to judge of those thinges which we are to sweare and subscrive with the strict and inquisitive judgement of Veritie and consequently we ought to ponder duely and to propound particularly and fully to others especially to those who requyre our Oath and Subscription and undertake to satisfie our Consciences there-anent all the doubts and reasons which make us unwilling or afrayde to give our Subscription thereunto IOHN FORBES OF CORSE Doctor and Professor of Divinitie in ABERDENE ALEXANDER SCROGIE Minister at Old ABERDENE D. D. WILLIAM LESLIE D. D. and Principall of the KINGS Colledge in Old ABERDENE ROBERT BARON Doctor and Professor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE IAMES SIBBALD Doctor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE ALEXANDER ROSS Doctor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE THE ANSVVERES OF SOME BRETHREN OF THE MINISTERIE TO THE REPLYES Of the Ministers and Professoures of DIVINITY in ABERDENE CONCERNING THE LATE COVENANT 2. CHRON. 15. 15. And all Juda rejoyced at the Oath For they had sworne with all their heart and sought Him with their whole desire and He was found of them To the Christian READER THat you may know our Proceedings how we are brought upon the Stage and contrary to our expectation are put in Print Comming to ABERDENE on Fryday the after-noon we received the Demands of our reverend Brethren that night late and for the greater expedition without delay we returned our summarie Answeres on Saturnday at night On the LORDS Day following we desired to expresse our selves to the People in presence of the Ministerie but the Pulpits and Kirks were altogether refused and therefore in the most convenient place we could have sub dio and at such houres as were vacant from the ordinary exercises of publicke Worship we delivered our Message in the audience of many After our last Sermon towards Evening we found that our labour was not in vain in the LORD for dyverse persones of speciall note both for place and wisdome with willing heart and great readinesse of minde did publicklie put their hands to the Covenant Having the weeke following seene some parts of the Countrey where besides the Presbyteries Alforde and Deere who had subscrived before the Moderator and dyverse of the Presbyterie of ABERDENE the Presbyterie and People of Turreff after they were satisfied in some scruples did also subscrive we returned the next Saturnday to ABERDENE where finding that some others had subscrived that weeke we resolved to preach upon the morne That night we received a Replye unto which before our returne home we have made an Answere All these we desire may be unpartially considered if it shall please the LORD that any light shall come from our Labour unto thy Minde let it bee as●ryved not unto us who neither had time nor helps for such a taske but to the brightnesse of the Trueth and Cause it selfe and to the Father of Lights to whome be all Glorie To our Reverend Brethren The Doctors and Ministers of Aberdene THat our Answeres reverend and beloved Brethren have not given you full satisfaction as it may be imputed to our weaknesse in the defence of so good a cause so it may proceed also from your own prejudice against what could be said by us which we have some reason to suspect for two causes one is that your Demands which we conceived to have been intended meerly for us and were sent unto us from you in write were published before our comming in Print like as ye have now printed and published your Replies before ye had seen our Answeres unto that which we received from you last in write we having promised to the bearer to returne an Answere shortly ere we departed the Countrey This may seem rather to be a seeking of victory from prejudice then a search of veritie for satisfaction The other cause of our suspicion is that the groundes of our Answeres to you have proven satisfactorie to others who for Age and gifts of Learning and Understanding are pryme men in this Kirke and Kingdome and to whom modestly will not suffer you to preferre your selves But whether our weaknesse or your prejudice be the cause must be now judged by others to whose view ye have brought us whom therefore we with you heartilie desire unpartially to consider our first and second Answeres wishing and hoping that partiality prejudice and all worldly respects and feares laide aside the naked Trueth shall

it according to your own grounds none of you will say that ye have sworne the perpetuall approbation and practise of these things which ye esteeme to be indifferent whatsoever bad consequent of Popery and Idolatrie Superstition or Scandall should follow thereupon we speake here only of things indifferent in your own judgement for ye have declared before that ye thinke the Ministration of the Sacraments in private places no more indifferent therefore can not forbeare the practise of these although your Ordinary and other lawfull Superiours should will you to doe so wherein Pearth Assembly for which you stand is wronged by you two wayes 1. That ye differ in judgement from them about the indifferencie of the five Articles and next that at the will of your Ordinary and we know not what other lawfull Superiours ye are ready to forbeare the practise of these things which the Assembly hath appointed to be observed What Oaths ye have given at your admission we know not because there is no Ordinance made Civill or Ecclesiastick appointing any such Oath and because the Prelats who arrogated that power presented to the intrants diverse models of Articles to be subscrived dealing with some more hardlie and with others more favourably according to their own diverse motivs considerations For some immediatly after Pearth Assembly without any warrand from the Kirke or Parliament were made to sweare at their Admission that they should both in private and publick maintaine Episcopall Jurisdiction and in their private and publicke Prayers commend the Prelates to GODS mercifull Protection that they should subject themselves to the Orders that presently were in the Kirke or by the consent of the said Kirke should be lawfully established The word lawfully was not in the Principall first subscrived as we have learned and if it had been exprest it is all one for the Superiours were judges to this lawfulnesse and unlawfulnesse We will not labour to reconcile every Oath given by Ministers at their entry with the present Covenant but wish and exhort rather that they may be recalled and repented of as thinges for which they can not answere before a generall Assembly To the Fourteenth IF the words of the Covenant be plaine concerning the meere forbearance and speake nothing of the unlawfulnesse no mans thoughts can make a change 2. By this Reply ye wrong your selves in forging from the words of the Covenant impediments and drawing stumbling blockes in your own way to hinder your subscription ye wrong the subscryvers in changing the state of the question and in making a divorce betwixt Religion and the KINGS Authority which the Covenant joineth together hand in hand and most of all ye wrong the KINGS Majesty in bringing him upon the stage before his Subjects in whose mindes ye would beget and breed suspicions of opposing the trueth of making innovation of Religion and of dealing with his Subjects contrary to his Lawes and Proclamations and contrary to the Oath at his Coronation We are not here seeking inscitiae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or starting hole of ignorance or of the smallest disloyalty of affection but would willingly decline that for the present which neither his Majesties wisdome nor the prudence of Statsmen nor the modesty of good subjects will allow you or us to dispute The Crowns and Scepters of Kings would be more tenderly touched then the ordinary subjects of Schoole disputes The naked naming and bare proposall of certaine suppositions such as some are made by you can not but reflex upon Authority and sound harsh in the eares of all his Majesties good subjects who wish that he may long and prosperously reigne over us 3. His Majesties most honourable privy Counsell hath proven more favourable to this cause of maintaining the reformed Religion then many Pastors whom by reason of their place and Calling it beseemed to goe before others and although according to their wonted custome they gave warrand to make his Majesties Proclamation yet on good groundes remonstrated unto them by the Supplicants they willingly refused their approbation thereof hoping that his Majesty should be moved to give greater satisfaction thereafter and this is not our saying but a publicke doing before many honorable witnesses of which number some were directed unto you whose report ye have no reason to call in question 4. It becometh us to judge charitably of the intentions of our Superiours and most of all of the intentions of our dread Soveraigne Yet if that hold good which the supplicants have offred to prove that the Service Booke and Canons containe a reall innovation of Religion we must judge otherwise de conditione operis of the matters contained in the Booke then de intentione operantis of his Majesties intention although the intention of the Prelates their Associates the Authors contrivers of the Bookes be most justly suspected by us 5. It is no delight to us and can be but small comfort to you to mention the wrongs which by you are done to us all who have joined in this Covenant and doe adhere to the Religion as it was reformed in this land in your estimation writings we are Rebellious perjured hereticks schismaticks blind guydes seducers miserable interpreters ignorants shal such men as these be your reverēd Brethren Is this your meeknesse and charity Is this the duety ye expect from us But setting these aside ye have wronged us in with-holding your hand and help from so good a Cause of purging Religion and reforming the Kirke from so many grosse abuses and opposing all those who have modestly laboured for Reformation Your speaches in private in your chambers beds of sicknesse and in your missives and in publicke at tables and in Synods which are come to our knowledge we wish rather should be remembred and repented of by your selves then be recited by us who desire not to worke you any trouble 6. Although there be a perpetuall harmony betwixt the Word and Works of GOD far contrary to that which we finde to be amongst the Children of men yet often it commeth to passe that the Word and Warnings of GOD which we heare with our ears are not believed till we behold with our eyes the plaine Cōmentaries thereof in His Works Many Proofs and notable Documents have been observed of the Finger of GOD in the Worke in hand the Characters of the great Works of GODS more then ordinary Providence since the beginning are legible here Then did the LORD begin this work when the Adversary was raised to a great hight and become intollerably insolent The beginnings were small and in the eyes of the World contemptible such as use to be the beginnings not of the works of men but of the Magnificke works of GOD the power of GOD sensible in the hearts of many and manifested by the joy the tears and cries of many thousands at the solemne renewing of this Covenant hath been a matter of admiration and amazement never to be

speach bewrayeth you For seeing ye answere onely to that which we said concerning the last of these two periods we collect that by the recovery of the liberty and purity of the Gospell as it was established before the fore-said Novations ye mean the reducing of the Policy of this Church unto that estate in which it was before Pearth Articles and Episcopacy were established And hence we inferre as we did before that in that part of your Covenant ye condemne and abjure Pearth Articles and Episcopacy as contrary to the Purity and Liberty of the Gospell 4. Ye seeme to answere that in that part of your Covenant ye condemne not Pearth Articles and Episcopacy but those abuses corruptions which have accompanyed them such as the Superstitious observing of dayes cessation from work on those dayes Feasting Guysing and the grosse abuses which have entered in the Sacramēt upon kneeling before the Elements and that in respect of these abuses we who allow Pearth Articles and Episcopacy may sweare without prejudice of our cause to recover the Purity and Liberty of the Gospell as it was established and professed before these Novations 5. But first let any indifferent or unpartiall man who knoweth the state of our Church judge whether or not it be lykely that your Vowe of the recovering the Liberty and Purity of the Gospell as it was before Episcopacy and Pearth Articles were introduced importeth onely an intention of removing of the consequents of Pearth Articles and Episcopacie and not of the removing of those things themselves Truely we are perswaded that they who know the state of this Church and your mind concerning these things will think this your Glosse of your own words to be violent and excogitated for eluding our Argument 6. Secondly Who can thinke that ye and others contryvers of the late Covenant who condemne P●arth Articles and Episcopacie as much as ye doe the consequents of them have only vowed to remove their consequents and not remove themselves 7. Thirdly is it possible that any can promise and vow to labour for the curing of so many and so great pretended deseases of this Church we meane these abuses which ye say have accompanyed Pearth Articles and Episcopacie and in the mean time promise and intend nothing concerning the removing of the causes of them 8. Fourthly how can we without great prejudice of our cause acknowledge that these grosse abuses mentioned by you have entred in the Sacrament by kneeling before the Elements ye should have said at the receiving of the Elements for seeing kneeling at the receiving of the Sacrament is confessed by us to be a matter indifferent if in our Oath we acknowledge these grosse abuses to have entred in upon kneeling it will probably follow in the judgement of some and in our judgement who recommend this Oath unto us it will follow infallibly that kneeling for the evill consequences thereof ought to be removed Doe ye not here cunningly deale with us For although ye urge us not as ye say to sweare and promise the removing of kneeling yet ye urge us by your own confession to promise the removing of these abuses occasioned by kneeling which being acknowledged by us ye will then take upon you to demonstrate that kneeling it selfe ought to be removed for ye hold it for a Maxime that things indifferent being abused and polluted with Superstition should be abolished We cannot sufficiently marvell how yee who are of this minde can say to us that we who allow Pearth Articles and Episcopacie may sweare to recover the liberty and purity of the Gospell as it was before c. For ye meane that we may doe so without prejudice of our cause But we have already shown that according to your judgement and doctrine if we sweare that which ye would have us to sweare our cause shall be much prejudged yea utterly lost 9. Fiftly How can we sweare to remove those grosse abuses entered in upon kneeling as ye alleadge seeing we thinke that no such abuses have entered in upon it Yea our People try them who please will show that they are as free from all erronious conceits concerning that holy Sacrament as any living in these Congregations where kneeling is daylie cryed down 10. Sixtlie as for these abuses and corruptions reckoned up by you as the consequents of the observation of Festivall dayes to pass by that which before we marked concerning Kneeling to wit that the granting of this were a great prejudice to our cause some of these are not abuses at all as cessation from work Again some of them have not come in upon the observation of the Articles of Pearth as Guysing and Feasting ye mean excessive Feasting for otherwise it is not an abuse which onely fall forth on Christmas Festivitie For sure we are that these abuses have not come by the anniversary commemoration of CHRISTS Nativitie in the which by the ordinance of Pearth Assembly all Superstitions observation and Prophanation of that day or any other day is prohibited and appoynted to be rebuked This the reverend and learned Bishop of Edinburgh in his defence of the Act of Pearth Assembly concerning Festivities Pag. 63. proveth because sayeth he we have lacked preaching upon Christ-mas-day these fifty seven years bygone in our Church yet Ryot Prophannesse Surfet and Drunkennesse have not beene wanting 11. Seventhly as for Superstitious observation of dayes whereof hitherto we have had no experience we marvell that ye can reckon it amongst the consequents of the observation of dayes seeing in your judgement it is all one with the observation of dayes For ye think the observation of any day except the LORDS Day to be in the own nature of it Superstitious and Will-worship 12. As for the last part of your Answere to our Argument concerning the foresaid period of time where ye alleadge that many corruptions of Popish and Arminian doctrine have entered in the Kirke c. we aske you Whether ye designe here another period of time then ye did before or if ye design onely this self same period of time in the which both the foresaid practicall abuses and these Doctrinall corruptions have entered into this Church accompanying as ye alleadge Pearth Articles and Episcopacy Or last of all If ye design no period of time at all If ye take you to this last professing that ye have here designed no period of time then ye answere not our Argument wherein we particularly and expresly posed you concerning that period of time unto which your words cited oft before have reference If ye design the same period of time then look how ye can escape our preceeding Arguments concerning that period of time 13. But if ye design an other period of time then we aske you Whether it be prior or posterior to the period of time already mentioned to wit the time preceeding the bringing in of the Articles of Pearth Ye can not say that it is posterior to it for ye complained

your second Answer to that Demand this fault should have been amended But contrary to our expectation we perceive not only that ye are insensible of the grievous injurie done to us by the calumnious reportes of others but also that ye have busied your own wittes to enquire as ye say in matters to search and to try our wayes and to expisca●e what ye could against us by the unfriendly testimony of some who perhaps are displeased with us as Achab was with M●ca●ah for the freedome of our admonitions Charity ye know thinketh no evill 1. Cor. 13. 5. and covereth a multitude of transgressions Prov. 10. 12. 1. Pet. 4. 8. But uncharitable inquisition and prying into other mens doings not only discovereth those infirmities unto which GOD will have every one of us subject for humbling of us but also bringeth even upon good men a multitude of undeserved Aspersions Brethren we intend not to give you a meeting in this for our resolution is not to be overcome of evill but to overcome evill with good Rom. 12. 21. And we are glad to suffer this for his cause whose Trueth we mantaine pitying in you this great defect of Christian and Brotherly compassion and praying GOD not to lay it to your charge Wherefore we will not search and try your wayes as ye have done ours but we will reflect our thoughts upon our selves and see whether or not we be guilty of these things which ye here reprehend in us 2. Ye say first That we have taken an ample testimony to our selves But what we pray you have we testified of our selves but this onely that in sincere and zealous profession of the Trueth we are not inferiour to others and according to our measure have striven to be faithfull in all the dueties of our Calling Ye have indeed put more into our Apology and say that we have praised our selves from our frequency of Prayer extraordinary Humilations and holynesse of Life and Conversation c. For as ye are loath to speak any good of us so ye would have the Reader believe that we speak too much good of our selves But in this as ye wrong us so ye make the Reader to see how negligently ye have read and considered our words For whereas in the second part of our Reply we told you that we have other meanes and more effectuall then your Covenant to use for holding out of Popery mentioning in particular extraordinary Humiliation frequency of Prayer amendement of life diligence in Preaching and searching the Scriptures c. Ye imagine that we doe arrogate to our selves some singularity in using these means not considering that it is one thing to say that we may and ought to use these means and another thing to say that we are singular and eminent above others in the diligent use of them 3. Next Whereas ye say that ye were desirous rather to hear that testimony at the mouths of others as if ye had never heard our Pains and Labours for the Trueth commended by any who knoweth not but in this case in the which we stand for the present it is lawfull and most expedient to men to vindicate themselvs and their fidelity in their Callings from the contempt and calumnies of others We have in the Scriptures notable examples of GODS dearest Saints who in such cases yea in other cases also without any derogation to their singular humility did fall out into high expressions of their own vertuous and pious carriage Who ever spake so humbly of himself as Paul who calleth himself lesse then the least of all Saints Ephes. 3. 8. yet elsewhere he sayeth that he was not a white behind the very chiefest Apostles and that he laboured more abundantlie then they all 1. Cor. 15. 10. 2. Cor. 11. 5. 4. The defects which by your strict and curious Inquisition ye think ye have found in us may be reduced into two points One is that we are too sparing in our paines in Preaching and that we often fill our places with Novices The other is that the small pains which we have taken are not fruitfull And to prove this ye say that Popery hath no lesse increased in our City under our Ministerie then any time before since the Reformation As for the first of these to omit that which modesty will not permit us to speak either of our own paines in teaching or of yours it is very well known that in the case of sickness and extraordinary imployments in our callings which but seldom doe fall foorth to us it is both lawfull and commendable to see that our places may be filled either with some actuall Minister or failing of that with able students of Divinity approven by publick Authority whereof your selves can not be ignorant in respect of your frequent Peregrinations from your Stations 5. As for the next point Although it were true yet the Parable of the seed sowen in diverse sorts of ground and the dolorous complaints which these most painfull and thundering Preachers Eliah 1. King 19. 10. Isaiah 53. 1. Paul Gal. 1. 6. and 3. 1. yea of CHRIST himself Matth. 23. 37. and Luke 19. 41. 42. made of the hard successe of their laboures may learne you to be more beninge in your censures of us then ye are In the mean time it is known to his Majesty to the Lords of secret Counsell and to all the Countrey here as also it is evident by many publick extant Acts of the said secret Counsell and of our Diocoesian Assemblies that we have been as diligently exercised in opposing of Popery as any Ministers in this Kingdom Neither hath our successe herein been so badde as ye have given it out for since our entry to the Ministry here scarce hath any man been diverted from the trueth to Popery some Papists have been converted to the profession of the Trueth and others who were incorrigible have been forced to depart from this Countrey Yea we think that our successe in dealing with the Papists had been undoubtedly greater if they had not been hardened in their Errour by your strange and scandalous Doctrins repugnant to Scripture and sound Antiquity 6. That which ye say in the second part of your Answer concerning the powerfull effects of your Covenant meeteth not with that which we did object concerning the unlawfulnes of it For that which is not in it self lawfull can never be truely profitable to any And Solomon hath told us that their is no wisdome nor understanding against the LORD Prov. 21. 30. 7. As for the last part of your Answer we have so often told you that your fear of the inbringing of the Service-Book and Canons is causelesse and ye have so oft denyed this that it were folly to wearie the Reader any more with this matter In the mean time we tell you that if your Covenant be unlawfull in it self as we still think it to be your fear although it were justly conceived will never free your