Thes ii shall be destroyed Wherfore those people vnto whoÌ„ God hath geueÌ„ so great graces to haue such princes and Lords which employ their power which God hath geueÌ„ theÌ„ to the edifying of the holy citie of God the ruine of Babilon hys enemie do submit the temporal sworde which they haue receaued of God to the sword of Iesus Christ his word employ it only to serue him haue good occasioÌ„ to render thaÌ„kes vnto God for yâ— great benefit which he hath bestowed vpon them to pray vnto him effectuously to coÌ„serue maintain such princes daily to encrease his graces in theÌ„ folowing the councell of S. Paule in his exhortation which he made to the Christians concerning that prayers which should be made in the Church I do warne you then saith he that before all thinges men make request prayers supplications render thankes for all men for kings and for all others which aro ordeyned in dignitie to the end that we may lead a peaceable life in all feare of God and honestie for that is good and agreable before God our Lord. ¶ VVhat Councell they ought to follovve vvhich haue princes that are tyrauntes and enemyes to the Gospell and of the preparacion to the crosse for the same T. THis Councell is very good But what sayest thou of them which in stead of suche princes haue cruell tyrauntes who being dronke with the cup of the great whore of Babilon do persecute furiously the poore childreÌ„ of God do dayly bathe their bloudie sworde in the bloud of the poore shepe of Iesus Christ D. Let them pray hartely to God that it may please him to appease their rage and fury and that he will so chaunge their hartes that where they haue bene persecutours they may become true feeders of the flocke which God hath committed vnto them to saue and defend them froÌ„ the rage of that cruell beast whose marke they haue to long worne In the meane time because it is more to be feared that manye of the Princes Lordes and Magistrates which haue alreadye tasted of the worde of God and layde handes to hys worke shoulde not loose their taste and waxe colde or shoulde rebell agaynst Iesus Christ in proces of tyme then there is of hope according to mans iudgement and the face which the worlde sheweth vnto vs at thys present that those whiche resiste the truth will embrace it receaue maintaine it therfore it is very nedeful in these latter daies the euery maÌ„ make ready himself betime to the crosse We haue the experience herof very plainly in many places D. It is not to be maruelled at For Sathan is continually most busted about those personages that ar most excellent And also there is the corruption of our nature and the fauour or feare of men which peruerteth many Therfore he that will be of the children of God let him alwayes haue in hys â—ath x. Luke ix minde these worthy sentences of Iesus Christ of his Apostles Who soeuer wil be my disciple let him geue ouer himself beare his crosse continually after me and followe me ii Tim. iii. Actes 14 Iohn 16 And againe who soeuer will liue holily in Christ he muste suffer persecution Againe men must enter into the kingdome of heaueÌ„ by many tribulations The time shall come that he which shal put you to death shal thinke he doth God seruice For we shoulde greatlye deceaue our selues if that we should promise to our selues in this world any rest and any estate or peaceable raigne abounding in all kinde of pleasures voluptuousues and a continual peace without any trouble or afflictioÌ„ For we may not thinke that the kingdome of Iesus Christ is any such raign for so much as his kingdome is not of this worlde Therfore he that woulde haue such Iohn 6. 19 an one let him seke it at that hand of Antichrist for hys kingdome is in dede of this world And further when we are in this sort disposed I know no better meanes theÌ„ to trauaile with all diligence to vnderstand aryght the will of God by his word and to amend our life according to yâ— rule therof desiring him earnestlye to geue vs true vnderstanding a hart to follow the same then welcome be what he shal send ¶ Of the studye of holy Scriptures and of the decree vvhiche vvas made in the Councell of Nice concerning the same and of the excellencie and authoritye of the Bible and of his decrees T. I Find your CouÌ„sell your resolution very good for my part it semeth vnto me that you haue spokeÌ„ that which is the most sure our dutie is to enquire with al diligence by al meanes of the will of God by his holy Scriptures D. It is the Councell yâ— Iesus Christ himself geueth which saith Search you that Scriptures let vs followe yâ— example of those of Beroa of whom it is spokeÌ„ in the Actes of the Apostles They Iohn v. Actes xvii Rom. xiiii i. Cor. iiiâ— were not like to a rable of obstinate persons which wil not heare at all nor like vnto a number of vayne people which lightly do allow al that euer is set forth vnto them without taking any deliveratioÌ„ and not prouing that spirites whether they be of God or no For they heard S. Paule then they searched the scriptures to sée if it wer so as Paul had taught And wheÌ„ they saw that he spake according to the Scriptures they receaued his doctrine as the doctrine of God T. Here was a good order o proceeding D. It is certayne for we must euery one of vs answere for himself in proper person before the iudgement seate of God not for others nor yet by attornyes Wherefore if others will not do their duetie but will tarye for a Councell let not vs fayle to do our duetie to followe better Councell if we may attaine vnto it And if a CouÌ„cell be of value why do we loke for new councells Why do we not cleaue vnto the olde which are holden longe since ought to be of greater authoritie then the new If we beleue not obey the auncient Councells why shall we beleue obey the new let vs rather obeye the Councell of Nice which did ordeine yâ— there shoulde be none among the Christians but they should haue Bibles to learne in them the will of God theÌ„ to that in the which Antichrist his Doctors haue forbiddeÌ„ the coÌ„mon people to haue them to rede theÌ„ in their natural tonges against the determination of the ChristiaÌ„ Councel For the boke of the Bible is the true boke of the true and lawful Councells and of the eternall ordinaunces of God wherefore S. Augustine not without good cause sayd that the authoritie of the scriptures is much greater then all the vnderstanding of man is able to comprehend know how subtill fine and perfect so euer it be with
dayes gyuyng vs such meanes introductions to the true vnderstādyng of his most sacred worde as he hath not of many ages done to any nation let vs now therfore call vpon the name of our mercifull and mighty God desiring him to strengthē vs to searche out this truth and then in dede to practise the same in our lyues least that he should in his iustice take that excellent Iewell of his worde from vs and gyue it to a nation that shall bryng forth the fruites therof I hūbly beseche that good God in the bowelles of his mercy for hys Christes sake that he will so direct our lyues that by our good example such as he hath not as yet called to the true knowledge of his woorde may embrace and receyue the same and so profite therin that in the ende we may be all of one sheepe folde vnder the charge of our great shephearde Iesus Christe So be it ⧠The content of the first Dialogue Intituled of the holy Inquisition Dependaunces or the Accessories THe principall ende whereunto I tende in this Dialogue is to procure men to searche and to enquyre of the will of God by such meanes as he hath gyuen vs in his holy worde sacred Scriptures to the end the they may know how to frame gouerne them selues according to the same and that they gyue thē selues to that study before all other thinges in the most diligent and earnest wise that shal be possible for them to do without any delay at al And that they do therof very well consider seyng the great mischiefes and inconueniences into the whiche men may fal for not so doyng and the great profite and commoditie that may come vnto them if they do so diligently employe them selues in the studie therof as they ought to do And for so much as the harte of man is so froward that he will in no wise be gouerned accordyng to the rule of the will and worde of God and yet for all that he will in no wise acknowledge and confesse the same openly but searcheth all excuses and colour that may be foūd to couer and hide his hipocrisie and wickednes I do shew playnly a nōber of the principal and chief excuses and coulour that men alledge at this present to hinder and empeach them for cōming to God and to procure their owne health and saluation After that we will speake of such as arme them selues for their defence with their predecessours with antiquitie with the nomber and outward apparance of the world and of those that thinke that their ignoraunce shall excuse thē and of the diuersitie of ignoraunces and of the simplicitie and malice that may be in thē and of their obstinacie and persecutions and of the negligence of all men in matters of Religion I will also speake of those that couer them selues with the obedience that they doe owe to their princes make them their shieldes and their Gods and of the meane that both the princes and people should kepe in suche affaires There shal also be mention made of such as excuse thē selues by meanes of their great busines moreouer of Epicurians and mockers of Gods word Beside these there shal be mention made of suche as are of opinion that all natiōs shal be saued euery one in his law I will also say somwhat of the certayntie of Gods word and of the constancie and assurednes of his will and of the law And afterward in the Dialogues following I wil speake of those that dwel vpon Counsels and wil shewe vpon what Councel we ought to dwell I haue intitled this Dialogue the holy search or enquest bycause that in it mencion is made not onely of that inquisition whiche falsly is called holy the whiche is made by the ministers of Antechrist which wrongfully are called the tryers of the faith and worcke continually against the true Christians that will acknowledge and confesse none other doctrine or Religiō to be Christiā but onely that doctrine whiche Iesus Christe hath taught whiche is the holy enquirie of the knowledge of Gods word necessarie for the soules health of all true Christians It may also be named the Accessories for so muche as I do set forth in this same the shiftes by the whiche men haue bene accustomed to wage the lawe with God and to excuse thē selues and couer their rebellion whiche they haue committed agaynste hys Maiestie The first Dialogue is entituled the holy Inquisition or the Dependaunces Of the blindnesse and disorder that is among men in the matter of Religion and of their Saluation Tymothe Daniell THe more that I do consider the great disorder that is in the world in al estates and chiefly in the matter of Religion the more I do meruell Daniel And truely for my parte I meruell not at all although the disorder be great but I meruell greatly to see that it is no gretter albeit it wer a hard matter to adde any thing therunto Tymothe Why sayest thou so Daniel Bycause that men are so blind and wicked as though they had determinatly conspired agaynst their owne saluation and health and to thrust all euen heauen and earth into disorder confusion ruine they could do no worse then they do Of the Authours and causes of all order and disorder amonge men and of the goodnes of God and of the ingratitude malice of men T. I Would be very glad if thou wouldest declare and opē vnto me somewhat particularly the causes herof D. I first aske thee who is the authour and cause of all good order T. God onely who hath created and made all thinges and hath set an order amongest his creatures suche as he knoweth to be meete for them D. And who is the authour and cause of all disorder T. The deuill aduersarie to God and to all his creatures who continually employeth all his forces to ouerthrow and confound the whole order whiche God hath set amongst his creatures D. Seyng that it is so and that men estraunge them selues from God and flee from his councell as much as in them is and on the contrarie endeuour them withal their power to ioyne them selues to the deuill pleasuryng in nothyng so much as to folowe his councels and therfore doost thou meruell if all be in disorder and extreme confusion Hast thou not rather occasiō much more to wonder at the great goodnes and inestimable suffraunce of God how he can endure so long not onely on so greate an ingratitude but rather so great a furie and rage wherwith men are fylled by the whiche they enforce them by all meanes possible vtterly to destroye them selues and to hasten their destruction and to make it more fearefull and horrible T. It is very true And the whole beyng wel cōsidered it semeth that we haue made a league with Satan our mortal enemy to ayde him to destroy our selues and to hinder the goodnes that God of his grace beyng moued of his owne onely
wyckedly employing them in all that he maye to the hynderaunce and losse of hys mayster and to make warres agaynste hym at whose handes hee hath receaued them D. Then consider thou wel whether the Christian be worthy of great blame that hath no vnderstanding of Christianitie nor of that occupation wherof he beareth the name What honour is this man worthye of that hath the knowledge therof and abuseth the same and doth not onely not practise the same in life but conuerteth the giftes that he hath receaued of God into weapons wherwith to make warres agaynst him and agaynst his owne saluation to what end serueth this knowledge T. It serueth to his more speedie condemynation and to encrease his iudgement more and more ¶ Hovv much necessary the study of the vvord of God is for all men during this life hovve apte and hovv vvyse so euer they be D. FOr this cause it is more then necessary that we studie continuallye in the scole of the Lorde Fyrst there to learne how to iudge betwene the good and the euill that which pleaseth or displeaseth God that which is for our saluation dampnation which we can not do vnlesse that we haue our mindes lightened by the worde and spirite of God for so much as there is in vs whiles that we dwell in our owne naturall lyfe nothing ells but ignorance darknes And when we are once thus taught it is then nedefull that we geue our whole desire vnto it which can not be for 1. Cor 12. so much as it is wholye peruerted and corrupted hating that which is good and louing that which is euill if it bee not also reformed forced vrged continuallye to the same by that very meane Wherefore to conclude for so much as we haue alwaies ignorance within vs and that most commonly we doe not that good which we knowe we haue alwayes neede of this teacher to instruce vs in that wherof we are yet ignoraunt and put vs in minde of that which we forget after that we haue learned it and to cause vs to practise that which we doe alreadye knowe T. And in thys sort thou doest conclude for a full resolution the al men how wise so euer they be haue alwayes neede to learne in thys scoole euen to the death and that both the learned and ignorant shal alwayes fynde inough ther to learne D. It is so For there are formes so highe in that schoole that no lyuing man shal euer be able to attayne vnto them Wherefore when we may be in that schoole yea although it be in the most low formes we ought not a litle to esteme it but to thinke it a great grace of God whose good wil and pleasure it is to accept vs into the number of hys schollers ¶ Of the desired ignorance and of such as are vvillinglye ignorant T. FOr so much as thou hast spoken of formes and orders of scholers I woulde fayne know in what place thou wouldest place this kinde of mē of whom we haue not yet spoken among whom when they haue bene required to go to heare the word of God I haue seene some of them refuse it saying that they wil not heare it fearing least that after they haue heard it knowē the will of God by the same they should be more faultie in as much as they did not obey the same D. It is not possible to finde such men that bare so shameleslye once to open their mouthes in such sort T. I speake that which I haue heard with mine own eares But how manye thinckest thou that there are who when they haue knowen that the word of God is wholye contrarye to their affections and that it teacheth nothing but that which is good and holy they will for that cause in no wyse heare it for so much as they feare to heare that which shall not like them and y◠they desire not at al to know those good things that they may learne of the same and laste of all to do them when they haue vnderstoode knowen them D. The ignorance of such is an affected voluntarie ignorance much lesse worthye of pardon then is that of those of whom we spake before For these men where they should studye to auoyde ignorance and to become wise in the knowledge of God seeke meanes as much as in them is to be still ignoraunt and to flie the knowledge of God without the which they are not onely vnworthy to be accompted Christians but vnworthye to be accompted men These mē put them selues in great peryl they are of the number of those that the Psalmiste speaketh of which stoppe their eares as doe the Psal 57. Aspes and Serpentes against the voyce of the inchaunter fearing that being inchaunted by the word of God they should lose their poyson and their serpentiue and deuelish nature the which they would still possesse T. It is very true ¶ How that the publicatiō that God hath made of his vvord and the declaration that he hath geuē of himself and of hys vvill euen from the beginning maketh the ignoraunce of men to be vvithout excuse D. IF that the subiect of any prince be taken and haue offended the prince his lawes after that they haue beene published lawfullye by sounde of trompet through out the whole countrye shall he then say that he was ignoraunt of them and so be excused ▪ T. I thinke not so for that shoulde make men carelesse for the searche of the vnderstanding of the princes lawes and then would euery man alledge such excuses and by these meanes the lawes should haue no place and the maiestie of the prince be had in contempt all hys lawes and ordinaunces should be but a mockerye and the publication of them shoulde be no more auaylable then if they were not published at all for the publicatiō is for none other purpose but to take away all occasions by the which men may pretend ignoraunce D. But if that the prince were aduertised that such a man had bene admonished to hearkē to the publication of his lawes and ordinaunces and that he woulde nothing vnderstande thereof but did all that he coulde possible because that he would heare nothing of thē to the entent that he might be the more voide of constrainte to obserue them shoulde that be an excuse for him towards his prince T. No but should make him more inexcusable more worthy of blame for the contempt in the behalfe shoulde be very great not sufferable D. Then if it be so that a prince can not endure to haue his maiestie so contempned dispised May God which is the Soueraigne prince of all princes endure it toward his maiesty after so great a proclamatiō of his wil as he hath cōtinually made vnto men euen frō the beginning of the world doth daily by maruellous meanes ¶ Of the meanes by the vvhich God hath and doth declare himself dayly to men
from them declaryng playnely in what perill they put them selues that folow such guides ¶ Of the care that euerye man ought to haue to knovve the vvay of saluation and hovv they ought to bevvare of false Prophetes and seductors of the people T. THen we ought not to be so carelesse but that we must enquire of that same waye by the whiche we shoulde passe to the ende that we mighte easely knowe if that in stede of leadyng vs in the ryght waye they should leade vs wronge D. It is very true and also we ought not to be so rashe and foolish that we should sodenly take guydes and conductors without hauyng any knowlege or testimony of them For if we should but passe thorow a wood or some other passage whiche were hard and difficill we woulde not take a man at aduenture to be our guide of whoÌ„ we could not assure vs least that in stede of guidyng vs the right waye he should bryng vs into the lappes of theeues to cut our throates as it happeneth oftentimes to many T. Yet not withstandynge thys way which we must passe is the moste daungerous of al for there nedeth no greate straying to loose vs all D. Therfore it is more nedefull to take good hede in this matter then in any matter els And for this cause are we so often warned in the holy Scriptures not onely by the Prophets and Apostles but also by Iesus Christ our Lorde to take heede of false Prophets which Math. vâ—â— Actes x Roma xvi Phill. 3 come to vs in sheepes clothing and within are rauening Wolues This admonition is not geuen vnto vs without cause T. That is doubtlesse ¶ Hovv that the admonitions vvhich are vvritten in the holy Scriptures agaynst the false Prophets do make them to be vvithout excuse that suffer them selues to be seduced by them D. FOr so much then that we are all aduertised and that the spirit of God hath geuen vs so many markes and signes wherby to knowe these false Prophets we may no more pretende ignoraunce in thys poynte for our defence then in the other matters wherof we haue already spoken For the case is not lyke with a Christian in matters of Christian religion as it is in other artes and sciences for that it sufficeth any man because he caÌ„ not learne all artes and sciences to learne one or two and to be excellent in some one science But the substance of religioÌ„ is of an other nature it is an arte it is a science and occupation which al men ought to vnderstand although all men may not be of like excellencie in the knowledge of the same nor yet be sufficient to execute the office of a Prophet or of an Apostle or of a pastour and Doctor in the church yet at the least euery maÌ„ is bound to knowe so much as he may vnderstand how to frame and gouerne himself according to the wil of God to know how to embrace that which is good and to refuse that which is euill and to knowe how to kepe himself from false Prophets and seducers for he that caÌ„ not do this shall paye for his ignoraunce as it hath bene sufficiently proued by the reasons before alledged Wherefore euery man hath great occasion before al other things diligently to coÌ„mend himself to God in these affayres with certaine affiaunce to be heard for he speaketh not this in vayne seeke you shall find aske and it shall be geueÌ„ vnto you knocke at the doore and it shall be opened vnto you for he that seeketh findeth Mat. 7. and he that asketh receaueth and he that knocketh at the doore entreth For the Lord is nere vnto those that call vpon him in veritye Beside this it is earnestlye requyred of euery Psal 144 man to seeke out diligentlye those that are good teathers least that in steed of the shepeheard we followe the Wolfe trymmed lyke a shepeheard which wil deuoure vs for we may not through our negligence attempt God And if we do this hauing a sincere and true care for the glorye of God and for our own saluation God will not leaue vs without the conducte of his holy spirite and without prouision of his goodnes according as it shall be nedefull for the saluation of euery man for that which Iesus Christ hath spoken shall remayne alwayes true to wit that he that wil Iohn vii do the will of God shal vnderstand of his doctrine whether it be of God or no. ¶ Of suche as alvvayes excuse them by theyr great busines and can neuer fynde conuenient tyme to hearken to the vvorde of God and to laye their handes to his vvorke T. I Am of your opinion but there are yet an other sorte which seme to haue more reason are better affected toward the word of God then are those of whom we did euen now speake But yet when I consider their workes I can not commend them There are that will soone graunt vs all that wherof we haue heretofore disputed they will confesse that we must enquyre of the wil of God in his word They will well allowe the doctrine of those that do truelye preach the word of God and follow the same and employe them selues in the busines of the Lord but yet for all that they wil not be ouer busie in it but wil find a thousand excuses They will alledge an infinite number of empeachmentes and empedimentes which let them Tere is amonge these men a number of mockers which say we must let God alone with the matter and that he will well accomplyshe his worke without vs. D. I do well vnderstand of what kinde of men thou speakest they are of the number of those which our Lorde Iesus Christ telleth vs of in the passage of those Math. xxâ—i Luke xiiii conuited gestes to the mariage of the which the one excused himselfe by his farme the other by his oxen newly bought and the other by his newe maryed wife to be shorte euery one had such plentye of excuses that not one of theÌ„ came to the mariage of those that were bidden but that of necessitye straungers were called And as touchyng those men which say that God will well bring his works to passe without them they say truth for God nedeth not any man to accomplishe any of his workes For when he setteth vs to worke it is not for neede as though he coulde not doe all that pleaseth him to do without vs. But when he calleth vs into his workes he doth it to doe vs honour in that we honour him making vs the ministers of his grace And therfore we shoulde bee the more diligent to take the matter in hand which if we do not he will assuredlye geue vs to vnderstande that he hath workes to do the which he will not do without vs to wit when he shall punysh vs for our slothfulnes and ingratitude T. Thou sayest very well for we must needes be there in
of mouth and doth put vs oftentimes in mynde therof by the ministerie of his worde ¶ VVhat libertie God hath gyuē in the vsage of ceremonies and of the meane that must be kept in the same T. IT shall then accordyng to thy opiniō be lawful for mē to dispense with ceremonies and with ciuile lawes and to chaunge them at their pleasures D. My purpose tendeth not to such an ende For when I do declare for what cause God hath left in this greater libertie vnto men then in the rest wherof we haue spokē I wil not therfore say although it be lawfull for God to chaūge all those thyngs at his pleasure according as he doth know it to be mete for the health of man that man should chalenge to him self such a licēce but contrarily when they haue receiued any ordinaunce of God be it ceremonies or such lyke they ought not at all to chaunge any thyng therof vntill that God him selfe which onely hath libertie so to do do it as we see it hath come to passe by the ceremonies which were obserued in the Church of Israell whiche were abolished by the commynge of our Lord Iesus Christ for that they were not ordained to serue but onely vntil that time Besides this in that in the which God hath gyuen no certaine and expressed ordinaunce but hath left those things in our libertie as indifferent we may vse that libertie whiche he hath left vnto vs gouernyng the same alwayes according to the rule of faith and of charitie If ther be then any questiō as touching the ceremonies ordeined in the law of Moses we must then haue regard vnto that parte of them whiche was abolished by the commyng of Iesus Christ whiche may not now be obserued without renouncyng of Iesus Christe as thoughe men douted whether he had accomplished or no that whiche was figured by them Yf there be any question of Sacramentes ordayned by our Lord Iesus Christe and of the ceremonies and of the discipline whiche he hym selfe hath ordeyned we muste then take good hede that we chaunge no iote thereof or to adde or diminishe in any thing that toucheth the substaūce of such thynges If there be question of mans traditions and of the auncient Canons Decrees it is requisite to cōsider wherin and how they do agree with the word of God also how they may serue to the edification of the Church or how they may hinder the same For there are many I say euen of those whiche are not contrarie to the worde of God whiche were good for a tyme which not onely would not serue at this present but woulde do greate hurte bycause the tyme doth not nowe require that whiche it then dyd when they were decreed And therefore if that of the verye Apostles touchynge the abstinence from bloud and from strangled fleshe whiche was decreed in the Counsell at Ierusalem was abolished in tyme conuenient when the vsage thereof was no more necessarie in the Churche howe muche more reason haue wee to doe the lyke of others that are of suche qualitie when that the tyme and the edification of the Churche shoulde require it T. I agree well to all thys But there is beside these an other sorte of people of whome wee haue not yet spoken whiche seeme to haue more reason then the others of whome wee haue nowe made mention but it maye bee that wee haue spoken ynoughe for one tyme it shall be beste that wee leaue them vntill an other tyme. For I doe not doubte but wee shall haue occasion to discourse sufficientlye of them D. Who are they I beseche thee T. They bee those that wayte for a Councell D. And bycause that we haue happened vppon thys matter of the Councel I am wel content that we put it ouer to an other tyme for it doth well merite that men looke narowly vnto it for so muche as many men depende vpon them ¶ The contentes of the second Dialogue named the waitinge for the Councell or the Nevvtrall Gospellers to vvit suche as vvill deale betvvene the true false Religion doctrine BYcause that the lookynge for a generall Councell to appease the troubles that are in Christendome in causes of Religion doth feede and entertayne many poore ignoraunt men in vayne hope and doth let thē from the diligent searchynge out of those thinges that belong to their saluation I haue determined fully to entreate of the matter in Dialogues folowing in whiche I will playnely declare what hope the Christians may haue of a Coūcel and what they may thinck wil come of it and how hard it wil be to assemble it and what issue or what good or euil we ought to looke for of it and what profite the lawfull Councelles maye bryng to Christiantie and whiche is the true Councell vpon the which the true Christians ought to repose and to instructe theyr consciences And in handling of these matters I wil touch chiefly in this Dialogue what hope wee maye haue in such affaires as wel of their part that are called Prelates of the Church as of the parte of the Christian princes as they haue gyuen vs well and sufficiently to know by examples and by experience that we haue had already of the Councell of Trent And after that there is some thing sayd of the Interim and of such soliciters worckers as will ioyne Iesus Christ Antichriste together in stede of Christiās make Samaritās of the opinion of such as say that the Coūcel cā not erre which is also continued in the other Dialogues folowing in the which I do a little paint set forth the maner of proceding whiche the Papistes obserue in their Councels and I do cōpare it with that whiche God did vse in his Councel that he helde with his people first in the moūt of Synay and after that in the hill of Sion I do shew also what preparatiō ther ought to be for the doctrine of such Councels and how that those two Councels conteine all the doctrine of the old and new Testament how they do so agree together that they both tend to one vpon whō onely it behoueth vs all to stay Wherupon also I make mention of the agrement and difference that may be betwene the old and newe Testamēt betwene Moses and Iesus Christ betwene the law the Gosspell and the law which is called the lawe of grace and the law of rigour of the abolishing also of the vsage of the law of Moses and of the vengeance of God which is prepared agaynst those that will not willingly receyue the Decrees Canons of this great and godly Councel and shall abuse his worde and of the great grace whiche he hath offered to men in his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord which things shal be entreated of euery one in his place And as touching this present Dialogue I haue intituled it the waitynge for the Coūcell or the newtrals in respect of the
without some iuste cause or lyke a man that dyd not knowe what the matter meant but like a man of great vnderstandyng and one well exercised in those matters T. At the least he lyued in such a tyme and bare such office as of reason he ought to haue had great experience ¶ Of the hope that men may haue of the Councell in these dayes and of those that there shal assemble and of the issue thereof D. NOw if Councels had such issue in those dayes that Nazianzene had iust occasion to make such complainte what hope may wee haue in these dayes of suche lyke remedie For first of all what hope may we haue to assemble a Coūcel onely yea and if it might so come to passe that one might be assembled what goodnes might we hope for of it For whoe shall assemble it who bee they that shal be there assembled Who shall there preside Who shall make the determinacions and conclusions of it and who shall execute them Yf a man would reforme or suppresse a stewes to whom wouldest thou gyue such a charge Wouldest thou gyue it to the master of the stewes and wouldest thou that he should haue the chief auctoritie in that reformation and that his bawdes and ruffiēs whoremasters and whores should gyue their voyce and sentence and that all should be done accordyng to their will and minde Might not mē haue great hope to haue some good resolucion and reformation in such a case of such a Councell T. It should be a greate mockerie euen lyke as to make the wolfe to be keper of the shepe D. Doubtles no more is there any likelyhode considering the state of thinges at this day in Christendome to haue any Councel much more honorable For if the Pope and his ministers haue their auctoritie whiche they haue had in time past euen sith they haue vsurped that tyranny whiche they now exercise ouer the Church that they pretend to haue there thou mayest easelye vnderstand what successe men may looke for For it is a thing most certayne that suche men wil neuer agree to haue a councell holden vnlesse they know it to be for their profitte and that they may there rule at their pleasure euē as they now pretēd to do in their Coūcel of Trent For if they did not think to reigne rule there at their pleasure it would haue beene a hard matter euer to agree thē therevpon or to haue drawen them thither And if they may obtayne this it shall not be a Councel but a coniuratiō conspiracie against God as was the councel of Annas and Cayphas of the Scribes and Pharisies and of the priests of the lawe and of the councell of Ierusalem against our Lord Iesus Christ This shal be a Councel to establishe more stronglye the seate of Antichrist and his tyrannie agaynst the Church and wholy to abolishe the course of the Gospel and to fill the whole earth with the bloude of the innocentes Martyrs which shall susteine the truth and rather die then to renounce Iesus Christ T. Certaynly for my part I thinke it to be the onely mark wherat they shoote For what may we looke for at the handes of him of all his race which hath bene a murtherer and homicide from the beginning of the worlde we nede not to doubte whether the Antichrist the sonne of perdition and all his generation which make warres againste the truth be the very naturall and lawful children of thys great murtherer father of lies Wherefore it must needes come to passe that they worke the workes of their father and that they put in practise those artes and sciences which they haue learned in his schole ¶ Of the meanes that the enemyes of the truth doe vse for the maintenaunce of their kingdome and their false religion and of the hope which they haue geuen by their Councel of Trent for the reformation of the Christian church D. AT the least they do declare right well by their threatninges howe well they are inclined to followe that occupation For in dede what coulde they do without that in so muche as the sworde of the worde of GOD is not to maintayne their cause and deuelyshe estate they can not finde one more meete then is the materiall sworde and the fire and fagots There is the Bible which they haue for their defence with the which the tyrantes and executioners furnyshe them T. Their librarie is euen meete for their studie D. By these meanes the Christianitie shall be in worse estate then now it is and there shall bee lesse hope of reformation of it thē before was And without passing any further and without going from their councell of Trent they haue already geuen vs a fayre testimonye of the good will that they beare to a true Christian reformation by those goodlye determinations which haue beene concluded not long since in their sessions of that worthy coniuration and conspiracie of Trent T. The matter is plaine and therfore doest thou no wrong to such a councel rather to cal it a conspiracie to resiste the truth then a councell to maintaine it ¶ Of the daunger into the vvhich they put them selues that attend onely vpon the councell without seeking any other reformation both in them selues and in the church D. ON the contrary if they should know that their tirannie mighte haue no place then woulde they finde all the meanes possible to inuent how to let it that there should bée no councell at all holden or if there muste nedes be one to hinder in all matters all the good that might otherwise procede And in this sort what shall become of thē this meane while that depend onely vpon the councell without hauing anye other care of religion or of the reformatiō of the same And if they had none other care at all they should die in their ignoraunce and doubt where in they are and so should go to holde a councel in hell where I doubt not but that they should finde Popes inough to procede ther Cardinals Bishops Priestes and Monkes to hold there a goodly generall councell better furnished of such personages then any that a mā might now finde in Christendome if they holde it in suche sort as they haue alreadye begonne that such personages do there rule if these men which attend for a councell be alreadie in errour they shall there be more confirmed therin and shal be in worse state then before If they haue receaued any light of the word of God it is greatly to be feared least it should be clerely put out in them being blinded with the apparence of the authoritie which men geue to councells ¶ Of the hope that men may haue of those Christian princes vvhich do reigne at this present for to reforme the church by the meane of a generall councell and of the negligence and vvante that is in that behalfe euen in those churches vvhich glory of the Gospell T. YEt
no fayth For fayth may haue none other regard obiect subiect nor foundation but God in Iesus Christ his only truth Yf it haue any other foundation if it be builded vpon men and vpon the opinion that men shall haue of them it shal chaunge as men do and as the opinion doth that men haue conceiued It shall fall when they fall it shall be inconstant variable and subiect to chaunge euen as they are For she shal not be builded vpon Math. xxii i. Pet. ii Ephes ii i. Cor. iii Math. xvi the liuely stone whiche is Iesus Christ and vpon the sure foundacion of the Prophets and Apostles vpon the which the true Church must be builded if it will endure agaynst the gates of hel and the whole hellish power otherwise how may it be a faith For these vices are as contrarie to fayth as is the fire to the water Wherfore such as dwel vpon mē in this sorte and do not discerne of thynges nor proue the spirites whether they be of God or no according to the Coūcell gyuen by Saint Iohn What assurance may they haue Iohn iiii in their consciences Whylest they are at rest and that they be not assayled by temptacions nor wakened by the iudgement of God and that they do haunt among such as are of the same religion that they are of it semeth vnto them that their faith is very sure strong but when they shal find thēselues assailed with diuers temptacions compassed roūde with great daūgers that God shal a litle astoone their cōsciences with his iudgemēt they shall then finde what stay they haue of mē that there is no perfit assuraūce nor true quietnes of cōscience but in the true faith engendred in the hartes of mē by the very persuasion of the word spirite of God And if it should happē that they should be cōuersāt amōg men of an other Religion what would they then do T. Yf they should be in Turckie they would as well receyue the lawes of Mahomet refuse the Christian Religion as the Turckes do for they haue euen the same reasons and argumentes to do it as otherwise they haue to accepte or refuse that whiche they haue already receiued or disalowed They would euē do the lyke if that they were among the Iewes or any other nation whiche should hold any other religion then the Christian D. It is not to be doubted ¶ Of the honor that is devve to good and true teachers in the Churche and of the meane that vve ought to kepe to the ende that vve do gyue neither to much ne yet to little credite to men hovv perillous a thing it is to trust to much to a mans ovvne iudgemente T. IF the matter be as thou sayest to what purpose do the good doctors serue which haue receiued so many excellent giftes of God for the edifying of his Churche D. I say not these thynges to despise or condempne them for we should be to much vnkynde towarde them if we should condempne or despise them considerynge they haue taken so greate payne to make the holy Scriptures more playne and easie vnto vs and that by their laboure wee haue had greate commoditie They haue sweat to delyuer vs from a greate deale of payne and trauayle and haue greatlye holpen vs with their labour and made the way more plaine for vs. Also we should be to outragious against God if that we should despise them blasphemyng the giftes of hys holy spirite whiche he hath bestowed among them Wherefore thincke not that I do alow the iudgement of certaine rashe men or fauoure a nomber of puffed prowde spirites who without any regarde condempne all men esteemyng none but them selues Bycause they haue knowē that the worlde hath bene seduced by gyuyng to much credite to the iudgementes of men and haue bene to lyght of credite not enquiryng of the truth by the witnes of the holy Scriptures they haue gone so farre on the other syde that they are no lesse to be blamed then those whome they do condemne For if it bee perillous to credite to muche the iudgementes of men so is it also daungerous if that we gyue not that credite that we ought to do to the iudgementes of those which gouerne them selues accordyng to the worde of God T. It is a very hard matter to kepe measure and meane and so to do thinckyng to auoyde the one sorte of extremitie and perill that wee fall not more daungerously into the other For if I gyue no credite to the iudgemente of others but will dwell wholly vpon myne owne and vpon my oppinion wherin am I more worthy of prayse then they whō I do condempne Am not I a man as they are D. There is no doubt but if I do folow onely mine owne iudgement fantasie I folow the iudgement of men for I am no God any more then other men are If the others be to be blamed bycause of their ouer muche lightnes negligēce raysh belife follie so should I also feare that I be not subiecte to greater blame through follie pride selfe will false persuasiō of my selfe T. Here is no smal daūger but before all other things we ought to feare least we stand to much in our owne con trust to much to our owne iudgements vnderstanding despising the iudgementes of others to be to much gyuen and wedded to our own willes For this vice is meruellous daungerous is the chief fountain and cause of all heresies and Scismes whiche are the most daungerous pestilences that may happen into the Church D. Therfore haue I sayd these thinges to the ende that we mighte know how to folow that moderation the which S. Augustine hath folowed without giuing more or lesse vnto men then faith Christian charitie may endure yelding alwayes to God to the canonicall Scriptures that honor which we do owe vnto thē taking good hede that we gyue no more to Councels to men then to them what apparēce or shew so euer they haue For they that come to Councels are men And in that they are men they are chaungeable subiecte to errors and vntruth They do conclude accordynge as the spirite is by whom they are gouerned If they be led by the spirit of God they wyll conclude in the fauour of the truth yf they be led by the spirite of error as were the Prophetes of Achab agaynste Miche they will maynetayne and confirme lyes i. King xxii And by these meanes they that shal followe them shall bee in very good case ¶ Of the difference that men ought to put betvvene the doctrine and vvritings of the Apostles and Prophets and of those that came after them and the cause therof T. I Do confesse that those which come to the Councels are men but a man may replye that in a lawfull generall Councell they are guided by the holy Ghost and that he will not suffer them
of the God of the earth whiche gouerneth that Councell by his holy spirit albeit it he remayn stil enclosed and hiddeÌ„ in the secret chamber of his brest and harte and of his authorised Apostles vntill the tyme conuenient Then his Legates whiche are the first borne of his children and creatures declare the will of their holy father and their God T. Here is a goodly order of procedyng ¶ Of the prudence that is required in the disputations of the Councels of the Papistes and hovve daungerous it is for those that behonest to be there D. IN the meane tyme it behoueth those that dispute to haue good regarde in what maner and forme they frame their argumentes silogismes and how they propone their disputacions For if they do not conclude accordyng to the maner forme and shape of that conclusion whiche is already made betwene the holy father and his Legats or if they cast not their conclusion in the same moulde they will forth with gyue them to vnderstand that they are not sene at all in that Dialectica and Logicke whiche is required of them Wherof it foloweth that either their conclusions are despised as those of vayne men whiche speake in the aire or els if they do somewhat presse or touche the honor of that God whiche raigneth in that same Councel the daunger is very great for those that shall make any such coÌ„clusions For afterwards they must nedes of force dispute with fagots executioners and fire For that is the last refuge whereunto these worthy pillers of mother holy Churche haue their recourse the God in whom they haue greatest hope to witte the God of the Chaldees and Persians as we haue sene by experience in the persons of Iohn Hus and Hierosme of Pragne at the Councell holden at Constance about an huÌ„dred or sixe score yeares passed For he that agreeth not to the conclusion of that Antichrist and of his spirite the same doth sinne agaynste the holy Ghost wherefore the sinne is not to be forgeuen there may be neither Pardon nor Indulgence found wherby to purge the Church sauing onely by fire T. Surely here is a goodly procedyng and very meete for the Vicar of Iesus Christe and his Apostles ¶ Of the resolutions and conclusions of the Papisticall Councels and vvhat personages they are that haue voyces in theÌ„ and vvhat scoole masters the Bishops haue there vvhat order they do there obserue D. NOw when the disputacioÌ„ is ended they must needes come to the resolucion and finall conclusion whiche is not done openly nor by the consent of all but is done in the Conclaue in a secrete place where none are admitted to come but the Popes Legates the Patriarches the Bishops and the generals of the Monckes These do there conclude what soeuer pleaseth them without hauyng any regarde at all to any thyng that hath ben debated of in the Councell but to that wherunto euery one of them pretendeth those who haue seÌ„t them thether And for so much as the greatest part in maner of the Cardinals and Bishops that do there assemble together to make vp a nomber are ofteÌ„tymes but well fed and fatte beastes shodde and horned fatte Asses Mules loden with benefices they must haue some kepers Muletters to gouerne and to direct them And bycause they are in such matter much lyke vnto litle children they haue nede of scoole masters to instruct teache them to supplie their ignoraunce T. And who be those Asse kepers muletters that thou speakest of D. They are often tymes a certayne nomber of hooded Moonckes and bellye Dyuines whiche often tymes are in maner as ignoraunte as their scollers as veri Asses Mules as the Asses Mules that they gouerne lead sauing that the one sorte is more heuyly laden theÌ„ the other with benefices that the one sort haue a litle more sence knowledge the others more farmes Lordships but their coÌ„sciences are all one T. Then are these meÌ„ to the Cardinals Bishops in stede of the holy ghost by whose inspiratioÌ„ they speake being instructed by theÌ„ D. It is true but this holy Ghost is but a litle portioÌ„ a depeÌ„dance of the vniuersall spirite of the holy father of the whiche the Legates are filled For all these hooded belly diuines pretend none other thing but to fish for some Mitre Crosse some good be nefice or fatte prebend wherfore they are there as kitchine dogges wayting for some soope These are the dumme dogges of whom the Prophet Esay doth speake T. Then Esay xâ—â— they do not greatly care whether they do barcke at the wolfe and byte him or no. D. They are not there for any such purpose for their beyng there is onely to flatter to please and to procure their worldly honor and profite and to haue their portion of the pray whiche those wolues do gette And therfore they teach the Nouices to set their sayl accordyng to the wind which they seedoth blow and accordyng to the spirite by the whiche they know that the Legates are gouerned those who sent thyther both theÌ„ and the Bishops to the end that there might be there agremeÌ„t of spirites that all those particular spirites might agree resolue with that vniuersall spirite which doth there preside wherfore they haue not at any tyme so great dissention and diuision but that they may well say in their conclusions It hath semed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to witte that holy Ghost whiche presideth ouer them ¶ Of the matters of discorde that may be in the Councels of the Papistes of the causes of the agreement that is amoÌ„g them hovv daungerous it is for those that do maintaine the cause of the truth T. I Thincke for all that they haue not alwayes the best agremen of the world among them D. Yf there be any discorde of opinion among theÌ„ it is not coÌ„monly for any matter that concerneth the honor of God the edification of hys Churche the saluacion of the Christian people but rather for their ambitions and honours preheminences benefices particuler affaires For in maner al those that come thyther are assured the one of the other and there is nothing in the world that they haue lesse care for then for God for the honor of his Church and the saluation of their owne soules of the Christian people wherfore in this respecte they feare not one an other For there are seldome any other there but Scribes Phariseis Saduces HerodiaÌ„s Hipocrites and Epicures Glottons Dronckardes Whoremasters Sodomites Players HuÌ„ters with such like very ignoraunt in diuinitie of very filthy and detestable life should be al excoÌ„municated accursed and depriued from their offices if they should be iudge according to the rigor of the auncieÌ„t Councels of their owne decrees whiche do excoÌ„municate Ex concil Carthag Dis 23. Qui
an end of the play D. The day wheron this is done all they of the towne where they are gathered to Coūcell must make a feast The Cardinals and Bishops doo assiste al there in their sieges seates clothed with their robes decked as it were bridegromes For it is there that the play must be plaide in deede And for so much as they haue had frō els where before that tyme not frō thence the inspiracion of their holy ghost that they be already resolued in that that they go about they do not then at all cal for their belly diuines hooded men whom before that tyme they had for their scoole masters but in such sort as they cal the rest of the hearers for there they nede thē not Notwithstandyng this to the end that they may giue all men to vnderstand that the determinaciōs whiche they haue brought thither already framed by them without the spirite of God before that euer they came thyther do procede frō God and from his holy spirite they begyn with inuocation of him to witte with a faire blasphemie to oultrage the grace of him and to renounce Iesus Christ our Lorde by whom it is gyuen for they sing a faire Masse of the holy Ghost with such ceremonies and so great mockeries and foolish toyes that the litle children would be ashamed to see it For the Masse must be Episcopall now there are many mysteries and ceremonies in such Masses moe then in those that are song by simple Curates and Priestes Ther is there also harmonie chauntyng and great store of Musicke euen as there was in the solempne feast holden at Babilon by the commaūdement of Nabuchodonosor to cause hys greate golden Image to be honored There is also a gaye and pompouse procession in the whiche all the players that playe in that play are clothed and disguised accordyng to the partes that Dan. iii they playe Then do they crye out for the holy Ghost with whō they would not haue to do notwithstandyng with very great desire Veni creator spiritus to the ende that he may come and inspire them to do that whiche is all ready done when this is done euerye mans opinion is asked of those thinges whiche are there proponed Vpon the whiche euery man playeth his part accordyng as he hath learned it and aunswereth accordyng to the conclusion which is al ready made Those whiche haue better memorie then the rest and do trust thereunto pronounce their sentence by hart the others reede it accordyng as it hath ben gyuen them in writyng in the cedules that their scoole masters and instructors haue made for them In the whiche often tymes there happeneth great inconueniences For there are some that haue so grose heades and haue so euill studyed their rolle that they are maruelously troubled to reede it a right And often times it is sene that diuerse of thē haue one kinde of Billet for so much as one scoole maister hath made them al hath geuen verye one theme to hys disciples ¶ Of the order that the Bishoppes do obserue in geuing their consent in the Councels and of the ende and of the curses of the same T. IF the worst happen it can not be denied but that ther is great vnitie of spirite among those mē for so much as they speake all by one spirite But is there nothing els D. Those that wil make no long discourse are discharged by one word of two sillables and a bowed downe head to vnderstand placet which signifieth it pleaseth mee For if ther were one syllable more which should be displicet signifieng it displeaseth me the answer would be very perilous When this is concluded the holye ghost without whose councel they haue determined and done all that euer they would and whom they haue greuously offended and blasphemed hath notwithstanding determined and concluded all those thinges according to their sayinges Wherefore they must be accompted euen as though they had proceded from the mouth of God And if there be any one that wyll say agaynst it he is excommunicated anathematised and accursed Therfore when their sentence and finall conclusion is in this sorte published they then frame the fourme of their excommunications anathematisations and cursignes wherewyth they thundder and lighten horriblye against all their enemies And not being contented wyth that to the ende that their thundrynges and lightninges should not seme to be without vertue and force men must come to fyre and weapons to mayntaine and defend these holy determinations T. This maner of proceding is very meete and worthy of such men as do embrace it D. Yet notwithstanding it is the very maner order that they do obserue at this presēt For it must nedes be that after this feast of Nabuchodonosor the furnace must be warmed also T. Then I do not greatly maruel if that Christendome receiue final fruit of such councels if they be holdē in none other sorte ther is no great hope to be had of them D. And good cause why for their holy ghost is to muche burning and of fire greatly different from him that was sent to the Apostles vpon the day of Pentecost T. Therfore I am wel Actes ii content that we leaue them that we speake of that councel of the which we began to talke and let vs see what order was there obserued without any more beholding that Tridētine play so magical bloody D. It shal be the best T. Seing that thou art of that opiniō I wil not suffer thee to be long at rest before I return to thee to hear thee speak of so woorthye a matter D. I trust by the helpe of God it shal not be all together without fruit ¶ The sum of the. 4. Dialogue intituled the resolution of the Councels to vvit vvherin the finall resolution of al Christian Councels and of Christian doctrine is had ALbeit that the little titles which I make of the principal pointes which are entreated of in this Dialogue may sufficientlye aduertise the readers of those matters that are therin handled of the fruit that maye come thereof yet notwtstanding I haue thought it good to aduertise them in the beginning of euery Dialogue of the effect of euery of them cōprehending in general y◠which afterward is debated of in particular Concerning this present Dialogue I do declare in it in what sort god gaue his law to his people by his seruant Moyses to what ende how it ought to be vsed what councell he helde by meane therof in the mount Synay what things ought to be considered therin And after that I do shew in what sorte thys general Councel doth lead vs vnto the other which foloweth being holden celebrated in the mount Sion in Ierusalem how those councels conteine in them al such doctrine as is necessary for the church of God Wherfore I haue named it The resolucion of the Councels wherein there is
Math. 25. 24. Iohn v. there set in the glorious throne of this maiesty with all hys heauenly Angels and all his Patriarckes Prophetes and Apostles to hold a Councel for to heare the last appellatiōs and to reuoke al the vniust sentences that haue bene geuen against his and against his truth which they haue folowed by the wicked decrees and Councels of tyrantes and of his aduersaries and condemne those which haue condemned that innocents and to absolue such as haue bene vniustly condempned It shal be he himself that shal pronounce the sentences the blessings and the cursses by the which the great beast and the great whore sitting vpon the same al those which haue borne the marke of the beast and those whiche haue bene dronken with the wyne of her fornication shall Apo. 17. 18 be condempned and the innocentes deliuered whose bloud she hath shedde through the ayde of the red Dragon in the which she hath died her garmēts of purple and scarlet Thē Apoc. xvii the beast and all his false Prophetes and adherents shal be throwen into the deepe pitte and into the fornace of fyre and brimstone which shall neuer bee quenched which shall greatly differ frō that in the which this cruel beast did roste Apoc. xx and burne the children of God in a fyre which is forthwith consumed into ashes wherefore we haue no occasion so to feare it nor yet the executioners which light it least the thynking to flee it wee fal into that euerlasting fyre and be deliuered into the handes of the hellish tormentors to be tormēted with them and by them euerlastingly and to be shut out from the company of this great kyng Iesus and from all his heauenly Courte to dwel eternally in the kingdome of darkenesse in that hellish Court and company so curssed and execrable ¶ Of the sanctification and preparacion that God did require of hys people vvhen he vvould giue them his lavv of the same that is required of vs to prepare vs to receyue hys vvoord T. SEing that it is so we ought then to geue good eare to vnderstande what is commaunded vs in that law Exo. xix and to heare it with great honour and reuerence D For that cause God before he discended into the mount commaunded that his people shoulde bee sanctified to receiue him and that they should prepare them selues twoo dayes before and that they shoulde washe their clothes and that they shoulde come neare no woman wherein he declared that al vnclēlynes and filthines abhorred him y◠to draw neare vnto him and to heare and vnderstand his voyce it was requisite to bring thether a hart and a minde seperated and free from al earthly thinges and wholye dedicated to him and rapte in him For he hath no respecte to apparel but by his outwarde cleanlynes and honestye he would giue vs to vnderstande what the inwarde ought to be and would vs to vnderstand that if a foule and a filthy garmente doo offend and loath a man then by greater reason hath he iust occasion to be offended with our hartes with out filthy souies and consciences being vile and infected with sinne And for so muche as they be suche and that the law was geuen to warne vs thereof and that we ought to seeke for our cleannes in him he commaunded that cere monie In like sorte because that mariage is his ordināce and that it is honorable in al estates and the bed vndefiled we may not therfore thinke that he condemned it when he Gene. 12 Math. xix Heb. xiii i. Cor. vii did forbid the people to be conuersant with their wyues for the space of two daies For if it wer not holy and honest he would no more suffer it in other dayes then in those daies but in shewing vs that it was expedient for vs to abstaine euen from those pleasures which were lawfull and whych he himselfe doth permit vnto vs when we will be occupied in meditaciō and prayer and in the hearing of his word in other holy thinges to the end that we should be wholye voide separate frō al earthly thoughts affectiōs to y◠end y◠thei might wholy giue them selues vnto him he giueth vs perfectly to vnderstand how much more necessarye it is to abstaine frō al vnlawful pleasures frō al filthynes villany It is also y◠cause why that S. Paul doth permit those i. Cor. 7. that are maryed to refrayn from lying together for a certayne time so that it be by the consent of both the parties to exercise them selues in fasting and prayer ¶ Of the fastinges and abstinences and of the differences of daies and meates vvhyche they obserue in the Popish churche and of their originall and foundation and of the defaulte that therin is T. I Do thynke also that for the lyke purpose it was ordayned in the olde tyme to faste the Aduente the Lente the Vigiles and the fowre Imbers and to abstayne from certayne meates the Fridayes and Saterdayes for to dispose and prepare men throughe abstinence the more willinglye to heare the woorde of GOD and to prayer and to the communion of the Sacramentes as well on the Sondayes as on other holye dayes and chiefely on the moste solempne dayes as on Christmas daye Easter and Whitsondaye D. It is lyke to bee true But al beit that it maye bee alledged that thys was ordayned for a good entente yet notwithstandyng there was a greate faulte in so doyng because that those which were Authours of suche traditions were so hardye not onelye to geue suche lawes to the Churche by their owne authoritie wyth oute the expressed woorde of GOD but also to make them perpetual and by them to put difference betwene daye and daye and betwene one meate and the other and to make the Churche subiecte to those obseruations whiche are more then Iewyshe and those whiche haue added vnto it the opinion of deserte and haue bounde them vppon the payne of deadlye synne yea and haue done worse for they haue defaced and blotted the benefytes of Iesus Christ causyng men by these meanes to truste and to put the hope of theyr saluation in meates and dayes and in their workes where they oughte onelye to put it in Iesus Christ ¶ Of the sobrietie abstinence and honestye that is requyred of the Christians in their assembles in the Church T. ANd if that those men haue commytted a faulte on their parte oughte not we also on our syde to take good heede least that we takyng in hande to amend thys faulte shoulde fall into an other extremitye as many do euen at thys day D. You saye verye well for if we thinke the superstitious abstinences of the Papistes worthye of blame let vs not thynke to correcte them by gluttonye and dronkennesse and other dissolutions but let vs endeuoure oure selues to brynge them to a true sobrietie abstinence and Christian chastitie Wherefore at what soeuer tyme
cause of this blasphemie for S. Peter in his i. epistle 3. chap. cōmaundeth vs to be alwayes readye to render reason to all that shall demaund vs of the fayth hope that we haue And again S. Paul Colo. 3. chap. Pro◠10. b let the word of God dwell plenteously in you but what answere make they to that which are more folish then the very fooles in dede Blessed is euery symple one he that walketh surely But that is the cause of all euills for that that many know not how to alledge aptly the testimonies of the scriptures for in this place we may not vnderstād the symple for the foolyshe and for him that vnderstandeth nothing but for him that is not craftye and melicious For if it shoulde be so vnderstode it should be superfluous to say be ye wyse therefore Math. 10. b as serpentes and symple as doues S. Ambrose vpō the 2. epistle to Tymothe 3. chap. sayeth All scripture geuen by inspiration from God c. It is manifest that all Scripture wherof God hath declared himselfe to be author is profitable For it is geuē to that end that it shoulde profite the ignoraūt reforme the deformed drawing the wicked into al good workes for by profiting a litle and litle in newnesse of lyfe it maketh the mā of God c. The law of the Lord is perfect restoring or conuerting soules the testimonye of the Lord is Collo 3. b Psal 19 Psal 119 faythful and sure it geueth wisedome to the ignoraunt The statutes of the eternall are righteous reioysing the hart the cōmaundement of the Lord is pure and doth lighten the eyes And againe Thy word is alampe or lanterne to my fete a light to my steppes The Prophet Esay in his 8. chap. sayth is there any where a people that asketh not councell of hys God Should men turne frō the liuing to the dead If any man want light let him loke vpon the law the testimonie whether they speake after this meaning The lyght of the Ezech 20. c morning shall not be geuen vnto them Moreouer the Prophet sayth Say to the childrē in the desert walke not in the ordinaunces of your fathers obserue not al their statutes be not defyled with their idoles I am the Lord your God walke in my ordinaunces and kepe my statutes and do thē Eccle. 1 a Itē the fountayne of wisedome is the word of the soueraign Lord God the entre into the same are his eternal cōmaūdements And agayn Search the scriptures for in them you thinke you haue eternall life and they bee they which beare Iohn 5 Iohn 20 g witnes of me And Iesus did many other thinges that are not written in this boke in the presence of his disciples but these things ar writtē to the end that you should beleue that Iesus is the annoynted sonne of God that in so beleuing you may haue life thorow his name The holy scriptures are In what recommendacion God hath his Word full of the lyke sayings The auncient fathers are full of the worthines of the scriptures S. Augustine in his 56. sermon made to the brethren that were in solitude sayth he that maketh none accompt of the reading of the holy scriptures sent from heauen ought not onely to feare that peraduenture he shall not receaue euerlasting rewards but also that he shall not escape the euerlasting punyshmentes for it is so daūgerous vnto vs not to read the deuine precepts that the Prophets with great sorrowe exclame cry out for that cause haue Esay 5. c Ose 4. b 1 Cor 14 my people bene brought into captiuitie because they had no knowledge for he that is ignorant shall be ignorant out of all doubt he that in this world maketh none accompt to seke to know God by the holy Scriptures God wil not vouchsafe to know him in the ioyes euerlasting we ought to be a feard to heare after that the gates shall be shut with the folyshe virgins I know you not I haue none acquaintaunce Math 25 ◠with you you that worke iniquitie depart you frō me what meaneth this I knowe you not I am not acquainted with you how knoweth he not those that he sendeth to the fyre There is neyther of thē spoken without cause for as it hath bene already sayd suche as woulde not in thys world seeke to knowe hym by reading the Scriptures GOD will not acknowledge them at the day of iudgement We ought also not to heare negligently but with attentiue eare fear that which is written in Salomō he that turneth sayth he his eare Prou 18 ◠frō the hearing of the lawe his prayer shal be abhominable wherefore he that will be heard at Gods hand muste fyrste heare God For how woulde he that God shoulde heare him when he doth so dyspyse hym that he maketh none accompte of the readyng of hys commaundementes Saint Hierome in the proeme of his Commentaries vpon Esaye to Eustochius sayth therfore I yelde vnto thee and to hym by thee that whiche I do owe obeyng the commaundement of Iohn 5. f Math. 7 ◠Christ who fayth searche diligently the Scriptures Seeke and you shall finde to the end that it be not sayd to me as it was to the Iewes ye erre not knowyng the Scriptures the power of God the wisedom of God and truly after S. Paul if Christ be the power and wisedom of God he that knoweth not the scriptures the same knoweth not y◠power of God nor his wisedō To be ignoraūt of the Scriptures is not to know Christ c. S. Chrisostome in the Homelie 29. vpon Benefis sayeth There is neyther griefe of body no◠mynde in the nature of man but it may haue medicine of the Scriptures c. These are sayinges of great importance and are true They are no Legend lyes They are confirmed by the word of God whiche is the infallible truth Then if man know not God as he ought to do but by the Scriptures that none can be saued but by the knowledge of God and Christ Thē must it nedes folow that ignoraūce of the Scriptures bryugeth with it damnation I haue alledged here mo sayinges of the fathers then I would haue done nothyng so many in number as I could haue done but bycause the great swarme of aduersaries say that it is not lawfull or expedient that euery man should read the Scriptures but rather that the people should be ignoraunt affirmyng ignoraunce to be the mother of deuotion I could haue aūswered it to the full by the woorde of God alone whiche woorde I thincke to be most sufficient but bycause these kynde of men before named wil not accept Christ to be a true man of hys word except he haue some of the doctors fathers for witnesses Seyng nowe that it hath pleased our good God in mercy so to deale with vs as he hath in these our
compare it with the age of that lyfe whiche lasteth for euer D. Yet doo we learne Artes and Sciences and occupatiōs in nomber in maner infinite whiche can stand vs in no stede but onely in this miserable and wretched life And on the contrarie we haue but one to learne whiche is able to leade vs out of all the miseries and wretchednes wherin we are here wrapt and to make vs happy for euer and yet we make none accoumpte therof but fiee from it reiect it and persecute it Howe shall we nowe be able to excuse our selues We will ryse three or foure houres before daye yea at mydnight We will ryde runne day and night both by sea and lād with great paine and trauayle and oftentimes in great daunger of lyfe and Heb. 1. Act. x. all this wil we do to gayne a little péece of money But although that God doth send vs his Prophetes his Apostles yea hys owne sonne and that hee doth teache vs by the mouth of hys seruaunts which is hys own mouth through the which he speaketh to vs dayly in hys Church and doth present vnto vs hys giftes and graces in our own houses yea euen in our beddes and tables Yet notwithstandinge we wyl not vouchsafe once to receaue hym we will vnderstand nothing of him nor yet learn any thing of him Shal we then alledge our ignorance and excuse our selues by it Our Lord Iesus Christ did very well vnderstande of thys sycknes and of the daunger thereof wherefore he sayde to those people that did follow him more for their bellye then for any spiritual doctrine Employ your selues and traueil not for that meate that perisheth but for that which endureth Iohn 6. into eternal lyfe the which the sonne of man shal giue vnto you When he nameth by the name of meate hys doctrine which is the doctrine of saluation and the saluation which he bringeth vnto vs by meanes of the same the which we can finde in none but in him onely He therefore geueth vs plainly to vnderstand how much this doctrine and this health are necessary for vs and how earnestly and diligent lye we shoulde labour for them for so muche as they are thinges that are much more necessary to eternall lyfe then is the bodely meate for the corporal lyfe and it is so muche more precious as is the soule more precious then the body ¶ Of the diligence that is in men to do euyl and of their negligence to doo vvell T. THou sayest nothng at all of such as employe theyr whole study and trauayle to do euyl If euery one of vs would take so great trauayle in the searche of this holy worke wherof thou speakest as doth the theefe to rob or the whore in the vse of her whoredome we should accomplishe a goodly woorke The theues rise vp in the night put them selues in great daunger and take very great paynes to cut mens throtes and we wyll not once lift vp our heade from our pillow to waken vs and to open our eyes to beholde and consider those thinges that appertayne to our saluation Satan our mortal enemy is so dillgent and continually lyeth in wayte to find meanes howe to ruinate and destroy 1. Peter ◠vs and we of our part are vtterly slothful and negligent in arming our selues againste his ambusshes and assaultes wherby we might auoyde hys snares Wherefore all thinges wel considered I see verye small reason wherewith to excuse men For there is no man but maye fynde meanes sufficient to attayne to this knowledge of God If that we were so careful of the eternal life as we are of this present lyfe and would as wyllinglye seeke for the one as for the other for ther is nothing that might ayde vs in that behalfe but God hath geuen it vnto vs. ¶ Of the vices that make men ignoraunt of God and of hys truth and hovv the seruauntes of God continually bring accusation agaynst them D. SAynt Paule was not ignorant of thys and therefore although he saye that he hath obtayned mercy for hys 1. Tun. 1. persecuting the Churche of God throughe ignoraunce yet doth he not excuse hymselfe by the same nor letteth to shew the greuousnes of hys synne calling hymselfe the greatest of synners a blasphemer a persecutor a man full of violence and oppression and acknowledgeth hym selfe woorthye of deathe and eternall damnacion If God of hys great mercye and grace had not succoured hym whereof he shoulde not haue needed if that he had not synned or if that hys ignoraunce mought haue excused hym For howe good so euer hys meanyng was or howe greate so euer hys zeale was towarde the lawe of God yet notwithstandyng his ignoraunce was not wythoute a great portion of that negligence and carelesnesse whyche is naturallye in men as touching the knowledge of God and godlye thynges nor wythoute some portion of the pride rashnes wylfulnesse presumption and arrogancie of the Phariseis and of the leauen of hipocrisye and superstition which are verye great vices from the whych euen those that are most perfect and holy cannot well shyft them although they doo not appeare vnto men T. If then thys doth happen to such as are of the most perfect sorte as to Saynt Paule what shall become then of a sort of glorious and arrogant hipocrites which are much more full of hypocrisy then of good conscience and haue a greater care for their owne glory and profyt then for the glory of God and the edification of hys church and haue such an opinion of their owne knowledge iustice and perfection that they thinke that no man may amende or correct any iot thereof For there be very few such ignorant ones amongst the persecutors of the church as was saint Paule before his cōuersion D. Ther is no doubt of that Saint Peter doth also impute vnto ignorance in the sermon that he made in Hierusalem Act. 2. vpon the day of Pentecost that which the Iewes cōmitted against our Lord Iesus Christ in the deliuering of Math. 17. Iohn 18. him to death preferring of Barrabas before him yet not withstanding doth not he let to lay it greatly to their charges as very murtherers of the true autor of life and verye sonne of God T. I perceiue by that thou sayest that God requireth of vs very great diligence and a great humility abiection and despising of our selues and that our negligence slothe presumption and arrogancye and our vayne glory and opinion that we haue of our selues are most commonly the cause of our damnable ignorāce D. It is euē so ¶ Of such as doo contemne the knovvledge of God euen as though they dyd knovv all thinges that appertaine to true Christianitie and also of the knovvledge that men maye attaine vnto in this life and hovv to encrease it T. I May well vnderstande by these what excuses those men may alledge that saye when they are wylled to enquire of the wyll of
God and of his woorde and in what sorte they should liue that they wyl vnderstand and knowe no more in that behalfe then they do already know for that they do already knowe as muche as they ought to knowe euen as though a man in thys whole lyfe tyme were able to come to suche perfection of knowledge and vnderstanding of godly thinges that nothing mought be added therunto D. Saynt Paule who was taken vp into the thyrde 2. Cor. 1◠13. heauen and did there vnderstand of thinges of the whych it is not lawful for any man to speake was neuer of that opinion For he doth declare that all that euer we may vnderstād vpon the earth of those matters is nothing els but 1. Cor. 13. as we should behold a thing in a glasse or in a darke cloud or mist Wherfore whilest that we do liue in this world we must thinke that we are alwayes lyke vnto little children as touching thys godly vnderstanding and that we haue neede to profit and increase in the same dayly euen as doo the little children that are at the schoole and that we shall neuer see it as it is vntyl that we be with God and see him face to face and know him as he hath knowen vs. For if ther be no man of so excellent a spirite that euer maye attayne vnto the perfect vnderstanding of humaine and visible thinges nor yet of one of those sciences that appertaineth vnto this earthlye lyfe howe great presumption is it then for mā which is wholy created ignorant as touching godly things so muche to challenge to him selfe the knowledge and vnderstanding of those thinges of the which the Angels themselues cannot perfectly vnderstand T. Surely it is a great presumptiō of vs if we thinke that we be more perfect then are the Angels ¶ Of the true knovvledge of God and of the true maner hovv to knovv hys vvyll and of the contemplatiue and actiue knovvledge of the same D. OF the other parte there is one thing to be considered in the knowledge and vnderstanding of the wil of God which thing fewe men doo note That is that we may not iudge of that science and knowledge as wee doo of diuers humane sciences of the onelye knowledge wher of many men hold them well satisfied wythoute anye further practise of the same For thys godlye knowledge consisteth not onelye in contemplacion requiring nothing but contemplatiue teachers to instruct the mynde of man but requyre also the wyll and actiue Teachers and practisers And for thys cause Christ doth not say onely hee that wyll knowe but he that wyll doo the wyll of hym that sent me he shall knowe of my doctrine whether it be of God or Ioh. 7. whether I speake of my selfe For there are that for curiositye and for some other affection that they haue that are desyrous to know the wyll of God but not to that ende to direct their lyues according to the same And therefore our Lord Iesus Christ declareth playnlye by these wordes that there is nothyng that letteth men from the knowledge of the truthe of God but onelye the wante of the feare of God and of good wyll to obey and honoure hym Wherefore it followeth that there is no true knowledge of God but onely that whyche is ioyned wyth thys good and prompt wyll and that none can iudge of the Lordes doctrine but those that are of suche a mynde T. If the matter be so a man may not thinke that he vnderstandeth or knoweth anye thing althoughe he haue all the holye scriptures by hart and that he can deuise and discourse thereof at pleasure lyke an Angell if he haue not the effecte of that doctrine imprinted in hys hart and that hee bee as it were clothed wyth the same in such sort as he may put the same in practise at all tymes ¶ Of the true study of the holy scriptures and of the true fruite that commeth of the same D. THat is verye true For if it were sufficient to haue onely a bare knowledge of Gods woorde and so beholde it in the ayre wythout hauing of the wyll reformed by the same the deuill shoulde in thys sorte exceede al men in religion For hee hath knowledge and vnderstandyng inoughe if that he had a wyll according to the same And therfore it is not onelye needefull for vs to heare the word of God and to studye the same for to vnderstande that that is contayned in that same doctrine and then to proceede no further and to make it as it were a studye of Philosophye contemplatiue But we doo chiefly neede to wrap and clothe vs therein and to put in vse and to practise in our lyues that whych we doo vnderstande and knowe or els to what ende doth our knowledge and vnderstanding serue For to what ende doth a manne learne an occupacion Is it for that he wyll neuer vse it or els onelye to talke of it wythout practising the same Wouldest thou thyncke hym perfect in anye occupation that neuer did practise the same nor neuer declared hys experience by anye peece of hys woorke T. No truelye D. Wouldest thou then thinke hym to be a good Christian that onelye doth boaste hym of the name and knowledge of Christianitye wythoute the declaryng of the same by hys woorkes T. No in deede ¶ Of suche Christians as are ignoraunt of the vvorde of God and of those that abuse theyr knovvledge in the same D. ANd nowe whyche thynkest thou more woorthye of blame eyther hee that doth knowe no occupacion and woorketh not or els hee that hathe a good occupacion and hadde rather to loyter and to be slothfull and idle then to woorke at hys occupation T. Thys last man whiche doth moste abuse the gyfte of God Wherefore if I shoulde see suche men in necessitye I woulde not verye wyllynglye geue almes to hym that hath had so small care to learne some occupacion whereby he myghte iustlye lyue muche lesse to geue vnto hym that had rather fast and become a begger then to woorke and trauaile for hys lyuing when he maye D. And howe wouldest thou handle hym that hath a goodlye wyt and is well exercised and very excellent in some occupacion and doth trauayle in the same wyth all diligence but not to doo anye thyng wherby the glory of God or the wealth of hys neighbour might be auaunced but rather to let and hynder both the one and the other and to lyue in all villanye and filthines T. I would iudge hym woorthy to be hanged or at the least to be whipped For if the others be worthy to be accompted vnprofitable and wicked this kinde of man is much more woorthye to be so accompted of in as muche as he is not Matth. 24. and. 25. onelye content to hyde in the earth the talentes that God hath geuen hym and so to keepe them wythout yeldyng any profyt of them but that woorse is hee bestoweth them
the same and more occupyed in other affaires chiefly princes whiche are dayly troubled with busines vpon busines from all partes T. That is very true D. This is also to be considered That althoughe God be bound to no sorte of men or estates but that he may distribute his giftes and graces to whom it pleaseth him yet for all that the matter is so that he hath a great regarde to that holy Ministerye whiche he hath ordeyned in hys Churche Wherfore he doth commonly more adorne with his giftes and graces those whiche he hath iustly and lawfully called to the same then any others In like sorte that for the loue of the same he doth bestow often tymes goodly and excelleÌ„t Num. 14. Iohn 11. 18 gifts eueÌ„ vpon those that are euil to the end they shal serue in his Church of the whiche he hath continually a singular care we haue manifest example hereof in BalaaÌ„ and Caiphas for althogh he wer as euil a maÌ„ as the erth doth bear that the gift of god did profit him nothing as touching him selfe yet notwithstanding for the loue of him whose persoÌ„ he doth represeÌ„t as s Iohn doth right wil giue vs to vnderstaÌ„d Iohn xv God to honor this holy ministery ordained in his law hath made him to Prophecie Althoughe he haue reproued that man all his couÌ„sels T. This is worthy to be coÌ„sidered D. Then if princes and al other men do this honor to those that are skilfull in any thing to demaunde their aduise and couÌ„sell and in that behalfe to be gouerned rather by them then by any others they should do great dishonour not onely to the Ministers of God but also to their ministery to God which is auctor therof if they esteme theÌ„ lesse in their estate and do make lesse accouÌ„pt of their counsell then they do of the counsell of others whiche are not of like price ¶ Of the dishonour that those kynde of men doo vnto God vvhiche doo not vouchesafe to enquire of his vvill at the haÌ„des of his Ministers and vvhat authoritie the Ministerie of the Churche hath ouer all men T. THey would not do them so great honor as did the ancient PagaÌ„s and Idolaters here to fore to their false Prophetes For bycause they did holde them for true Prophetes yet in their error they had thys reuerence towardes God that hardly durst they enterprise any thyng that was of importauÌ„ce chiefly in things that appartained to Religion without inquiringe of the will of their Gods at the handes of their Prophetes D. Thou sayest truth And therefore it should be a great dishonor reproch to those that are Christians if they do not God and his Prophets so great honor at least as did the Pagans and Idolaters to the deuill and his Ministers thincking to honor God and his seruauntes And beside this yf ther were none other reason but onely this which is to wit that God hath willed that his Church should be gouerned by the ministerie of his word which if it wer not but only to obserue the order that God him selfe hath appointed yet is it requisâ—te that all men both great small submit theÌ„ to that holy ministery to that order which god hath established in the same as al the good kinges princes of the people of God haue alwayes done notwithstandyng they haue ben maruelously endued with the giftes of God Was ther euer prince kyng or Prophet more excelleÌ„t then Dauid whiche was both a king and a Prophet T. I thincke not D. Yet notwtstaÌ„ding wheÌ„ he would gyue order for the building of the teÌ„ple for that offices ministeries appartayning to that seruice of God he did take in haÌ„d nothing wtout the aduise of the Prophetes of the Lord namely of NathaÌ„ by 2. Sam. 7 i. Chro. 17. whoÌ„ he vnderstode that the Lords wil was that the teÌ„ple should not builded by him although he had determined and purposed it but by his sonne Salomon In like maner Moses Exod. 1â— that great and excellent Prophete did he contemne the counsell of Iethâ—o his father in law whiche was of farre meaner estate then he ¶ Of the meane and order that princes should kepe in iudgement of thinges appertaining to Religion and to the reformation of the same T. ALl those things do confirme the opinioÌ„ of those that wil coÌ„mit all things yâ— touch Religion to those that are called meÌ„ of the Church without dealing therin theÌ„ selues D. Yf thou diddest wel vnderstaÌ„d me I did not coÌ„clude that princes other men should so addresse theÌ„ to the Ministers of the Church in matters of ReligioÌ„ coÌ„science that they should not deale therin so far as their office should require and to take good hede to what kinde of men they came least that in stede of commyng to the true Prophetes of God and Ministers of Iesus Christe they should addresse them to false Prophetes and Ministers of Antechriste as often tymes it happeneth T. This matter is perillous D. Therefore as those men are greatly to be blamed that make none accoumpt of the true Ministers of God and of hys Churche but wyll gouerne the Churche and determine of those thynges which appertayne to the reformation of the same folowing their own fantasie and opinion or els as though they had to determine of some worldly policie euen so on the contrarie part these kinde of men are greatly to be blamed whiche will not deale in it at all but suffer others to determine of it euen as it pleaseth them and are ready to execute that whiche others shall appoynte without hauynge any consideration of the thynge them selues But euen as shall please the others without due examynyng and vnderstandynge what they do For as the firste sorte vsurpe a greate tyranny ouer the Churche and ouer the Ministerie of the same lyke vnto that of the Antichriste who hath plucked to hym selfe the authoritie to dispose of the Churche at hys pleasure in lyke maner this laste sorte do wronge to them selues and do frame and establishe a derye daungerous tyrannye both agaynst them selues agaynste the whole Church and do confirme Antechriste in the possession whiche he hathe all ready vsurped ouer them For albeit that a iudge before he gyue sentence and before he wyll execute the same do aske the aduise and counsell of hys assistauntes yet doth he not gyue hys iudgemente accordynge to theyr sentences vntil he haue wel examined and vnderstood them Otherwise he should put him selfe in greate daunger and hys office should not be greatly differyng from the office of a hange man For the hange man doth not assiste in the counsell of the iudges he gyueth no sentence he hath no voyce nor medleth with theyr processe or causes of those that are delyuered into hys handes he hath nothing to do but only to execute that which is gyuen hym in charge But a iudge hathe farre other authoritie and greater charge
them selues to the true reformation of God and woulde yelde vnto hym that obedience which of right they owe him but they would euery of them rather haue such a reformation as shoulde please their fantasie which should not displease thē at all but entertain thē in their pleasures And therfore it is no maruell if all frame not well that men be so euill matched oftentimes in all gouernmentes and that one be a hindraunce to the other And it is not greatly to be maruelled at if the ministers doe seldome finde good Magistrates and good people yelding to the ministerie of the worde of God such obedience and duetye as they ought to doe Moreouer it is not to bee maruelled at if the Magistrates finde very seldome true and faithfull Ministers of Iesus Christ diligente in theyr ministerie towardes the church of God who withoute flatterye will francklye shewe both them and the people theyr faultes which are subiecte to them as they oughte to doe and doe loue and reuerence them as their fathers And doe we maruell if the people haue more often Pastours and Magistrates tyrauntes which doe deuoure them and destroye them then good Ministers and Magistrates which woulde be vnto them in stead of fathers and desire more the honour of God and the saluation of hys people thē their own glorye and profitte For it muste needes come to passe that the offring must be like to the Saint as saith the prouerbe and that God do punyshe men in suche sorte the one by the other to the ende that they maye learne to knowe in them selues by the iniurye which others doe to them and by that which they commaunde of them what iniurye they doe to God and how he maye be pleased by them If then it be an hard matter to set good order in the church when either the Ministers Magistrates or people be other then of right they ought to be what discipline may we then hope for whē they shall be all in leage together to resiste against God and to make warres agaynst his worde and to destroye all good discipline T. That doth yet more often happen then the contrarye ¶ Of the difficultie that is in the vvorlde at this day to assemble meete men for a lavvfull councell and of the example of the auncient Christians concerning their fath tovvards the doctrine of the Apostles D. THē if it be so difficulte as nothing is more to set good order in a small countrey or little towne by meanes of these empeachmentes yea euen in those places where there is moste light of God and moste hope of reformation what will it then bee when it shall come in question for all Christendome and for all the worlde how harde a matter will it be to assemble so manye peces so euill gathered together and the one so contrary to the other If those which receaued the Gospell in the tyme of the Apostles seing the diuersities that then were in the religion and the resistance that was made against the doctrine of the Apostles woulde haue beene contented to abstayne from receauing of it vntill such tyme as a generall councell had bene called where had they then bene become When should they haue beleued the Gospell For who should haue assembled ordayned it Shoulde the Romaine Emperours haue done it which wer enemies and persecutours of the Christian religion which then were the most mightie princes vpon the earth Or ells Pilate and Herode Annas and Cayphas or ells the Scribes and Pharisies the Doctors and the Priestes of the Iewe or ells the Philosophers and the Prophets of the Paganes which were all aduersaryes to the Gospel what conclusion might men haue loked for at the hands of such men How should the Apostles and their adherentes haue bene receaued among those mē and of what weight or value should their voice haue bene How longe shoulde men haue wayted before that all these men would haue agreed together vpon any good determination for the doctrine of true religion That would not haue bene done before the day of iudgement ¶ Of the hindraunce vvhich the Christians doe cause in the reformation of the church more then all others and of the ende vvhereunto the suppostes of the popishe church tend vnder the title and name of a Councell T. THe world is not in these dayes as then it was For we haue now nothing a do neither with the Iewes nor Paganes nor yet with the Turckes And seyng that wee haue to doe but Christians with Christians the hope is the greater D. I know not But at the least I desire it for my part but I feare least the pure truth of God will worse be endured of those which glorie of the name of a Christiā then of the Iewes and Turckes For all those that beare the name of Christians are not for all that Christians for for so much as it is an other matter to be a Christian in name onely and to be one in dede and name together This fareth muche like the testimonies whiche we haue already brought sorth of auncient customes touchyng the aunciēt Samaritanes of whome it is writen that they feared the ii Reg. xvii Lord and yet notwithstandyng they serued continually their Idolles and afterward in this same passage he sayth that they did not feare the Lord. T. I was in mynde to desire thee to agree these two passages when thou diddest alledge them but that I was loth to breake of your tale D. It is an easye matter to agree them for the one expoundeth and declareth the other It is sayd that they feared God for so much as they made a certayne profession of the law but for so much as they dyd it not in dede but mingled theyr auncient superstitions and Idolatries with it it is sayde that they feared not the Lorde as it is declared folowyng But let vs come to the Samaritanes of our tyme for truly we doe not see at all more cruell persecutours of the Gospell then are those whiche are Popishe Christians But to what ende thinckest thou that the Councell of Trent is continued and that they haue newlye confirmed and approued all those determinations and resolutions that haue passed In the same Thou mayest well assure thy selfe that those worthy fathers whiche trauaile there tend to none other ende but to confirme and establishe agayne all theyr aunciēt errors to the end they may haue a more better coulour to defende and maintayne them here after and to persecute the children of God and to bathe all Christendom in the bloud of poore Innocentes and true seruaunts of God do they not apparantly shewe that they will not admitte any reformation whiche is comformable in any one pointe to Gods truth and that they haue no care neither of peace ne yet of the vnion of Christendome but onely how to maintaine their most filthy damnable estate and to oppresse by their tyrannie all true Christianitie and vtterly to destroy it
For if they were desirous to hear vnderstand the truth to bring into the rightway those which they hold for heretikes Scismatikes why do they not there admit thē and franckly safely receiue them to heare their reasons to shewe thē by the word of God if their cause haue good foūdation in the same their errors wherin they say that they are But they passe not for that for they wil not heare their iudges nor endure that the word of God shal iudge thē knowyng well that by it they are already condempned but will be iudges ouer it and condēpne it as their aduersary Truly their doings must nedes be good their conclusions good their condemnatiōs lawfull In so much as they are both iudges parties witnesses euen as their predecessors were against Iesus Christ they haue their hangemē executioners ready at hād to execute their sētences What differēce is there betwene such a Coūcell a conspiracie of theeues whiche sweare together to take in hand some enterprise to cut mens throtes What authoritie ought such a Coūcell to be of What prophets are there what doctors what Christiā princes how may then al christēdō lawfully receiue for resoluciō determinatiō of the christiā doctrine for a true reformatiō of the church the cōclusiō y◠shal be had in such a cōspiracie of the enemies of God of al Christianitie There is no man of sound iudgement that will agree to this for it is in a maner such a cōspiracie as was that which Salomon discribeth of those which said Let vs lay ambushes to shed blud and let vs lye in waite for that innocent without cause It is a cōspiracie like vnto that of the false Priests false Prophets Prou. i Iere. xviii enemies of Ieremie which sayd let vs go let vs woūde and smite with the toung for the Sacrificers shall neuer want wisedom It is much like to y◠which the Papistes say The Coūcels cā not erre And if it be lawfull to cōstrayne mē by force that feare God which great strokes of swordes by warres murders sheding of bloud with great store of fagotes mighty fiers as these worthy fathers do I leaue to thy iudgemēt what edificatiō what peace vnion such a Coūcell may bryng to the church of Iesus Christ to al christēdom ¶ VVhat Councell the true Christians ought to folovve in wayting for the generall Councell T. WHat shall we then do if this hope be taken from vs D. Though we haue no occasiō at al to cōceiue any good hope of the Coūcell of Trēt yet will I not therfore say that al hope is taken frō vs foreuer but I will onely say that we liuing in this hope should be occasioned to stay without any further inquiring of the wil of God without the assuring of our consciences in his worde And whē such matter hath bene in question I haue alwayes bene thus resolued in my selfe Either there shal be a Coūcel holdē or els there shal be none holdē Ff ther non holdē I am thē deceiued in my waityng for it if there shal be one holdē I know not whether I shall liue vnto that time or no or at the least to see the end conclusiō therof And in the mean time if I dye not being wel resolued in my cōscience of religion I shall dye in great disquetnes of conscience and in great perill of my saluation as thou mayest wel vnderstand by those matters whiche haue already ben debated sufficiently and at large betwene vs. Wherefore I had rather in the meane tyme to assure my selfe folowyng the admonition of our Lord Iesus Christ whiche sayth Be vpon your garde watche and praye and Mat. 24. 25. Luke 12. do like that good seruaunt that is alwayes ready looketh for hys master not knowyng what houre he shal come We are well assured that he shall come but we neither knowe the day ne yet the houre Wherefore let vs lyue alwaye in such estate as becommeth Christians to be when he shall come and then shall we neuer be sodenly taken ¶ Of those vvhiche vvould agree the doctrine of Iesus Christ and that of Antichrist together and of the forme of doctrine compounded to such an ende called Interum and of the vanitie of the authors of the same T. IN dede it is the most sure but in the meane tyme it is a harde matter to finde any kynde of Religion wherein a man may so well continue in wayting for the generall Councell as that whiche men call at this day the Interim D. Thou hast now put vs into a very large fielde I would gladly that these foregers of Interim should declare vnto me the very cause why they do call thys newe forme of Religion whiche they haue forged by the name of Interim T. Thou doest well vnderstand y◠Interim signifieth in the Latin toung in the meane tyme or whilest D. I do know that very wel yet notwithstanding I would gladly know what they meane by this worde in the meane time or whylest T. They meane as I thinke y◠that maner of lyfe hath ben set forth onely to that end that men should lyue according to the same in matter of Religion whilest they away◠for a Councell in the which more ample and more certaine determination in matter of Religion or els an other reformation more perfect shal be had D. Is not that a very wise Councell I would desire no more but the title of this worthy maner of reformation to declare the great vanitie of the authors of the same For either it is builded vpon the word of God or els it is agaynste it If it bee agreable to Gods worde there nedeth not eyther whylest or vntill for it shal be alwayes good and holy Yf it be agaynst it and if it endure but one hour it shal cōtinew ouer long for so much as what so euer thynge it be that is agaynste God the same ought to haue no place neither for shorte nor longe tyme. For it fareth not with gods kingdom as it doth with worldly kingdomes neither with Gods lawes ouer the whiche we haue no power as it doth with mans lawes For when a king is dead there is a certayne time betwene the decease of the dead kyng and the creation of the new kyng which is called enter raigne whiche is a tyme betwene both whiche is properly called neither raigne nor kingdome for so much as there is as yet no kyng chosen as head of the same and mē can not say that there is vtterly no raigne or kingdom for so much as the lawes and countrey stande in their full power and effecte sauyng onely that they haue not as yet their kyng appointed chosen And the like is when a cheife Magistrate dyeth in a Seigmorie Nowe this can haue no place in the kyngdome of God for the king thereof neuer dyeth Wherfore as he
would maintayne by their Councells to put them selues in order to serue and obeye the liuing God and Iesus Christ his sonne our Lord. And without seking proofe further of to shewe by the same what hope men maye haue of their obey saunce towardes the determinations of a good Christian Councell there needeth no more but to beholde howe they doe endeuour them selues at thys present and heretofore haue done to obserue the statutes and ordinaunces of the auncient Councels of the which they do so much glorify yea euen of very those which wholy haue bene made for their purpose For there is no one thing which is concluded in thē according to the word of God but that they thē selues do first transgresse it and doe obserue not so much as one point therof vnlesse it be such as are cleane contrary to the word of God For euen as they make lawes at their pleasure so may they dispense with them at their pleasure for so muche as they are Gods vppon earth And therefore doe feare neyther GOD nor man what so euer he bee but doe permitte to them selues all that whiche their earthlye God and Sathan the God and prince of this worlde doth permitte vnto them now if it be hard to amend and frame 2. Cori 3. Ioh. 1◠14. that wicked by that meane of a good Councell it shal thē be more harde to shutte vp close that mouthes by the meanes of a wicked Councell for the children of God who can not be ouercome euen by very death but in dying do ouercome I doe saye it shall be no lesse difficile to abolyshe and wype oute truth which is the daughter of the inuincible and immortall God ¶ VVhat fruite the Church maye receaue of lavvfull Councells and vvhat mixture there is in her of good and bad and vvhat is her office tovvarde the one and the other T. I Do willingly consent agree to all that thou sayest but how so euer it be the auncient Councells haue not yet bene without fruite for at the least they haue geuen some repose to the church for a certayne tyme and haue armed the faythfull against the heretiques as we doe see in Lib. 7. cont Donat. Lib. 1. cont Donat. Saint Augustine for he doth arme himself against the Donatistes with the vnion of the holy vniuersall church and of the authoritie of the full Councell as with a buckler thinking that the full and lawfull Councell is the consent of the whole church I do not denye but what so euer Councell is holden there may yet continue still in the church many hipocrites which will sceme to agree with it and yet for all that in the meane tyme they will nourishe their poyson in their hartes But the church leaueth such to the iudgement Matth. xiii of God For euen as our Lorde Iesus Christ doth playnlye shewe it in his parables she can not be without hypocrites so long as she shall continue vpō this earth vpon the which she can not be so pure but that she shall alwayes be myxed with good euill But it is inough for the church to teach simplye and plainly that which euery man is bound to beleue and then the true children of the church do beleue simplye and constantly that which their mother teacheth them and that vnfaynedly and obey her without any gayne saying The hipocrites which are not her lawfull children but misbegotten and bastardes maye well through their false shewe deceiue and abuse men but not God they may deceiue the espouse but not the bridegrome wherfore she holdeth her well contented when she hath done that which she is able to do to wit to teache the true doctrine to correcte by discipline such as be faultie to the ende that she may bryng them into the right way and that she may entertaine them euery one in his place and vocation or els if they be so peruerse wicked and incorrigible that they will not chaunge theyr oppinions and if they can do no good with such kind of men yet will they endeuour them selues at the least so well to prouide for others that they shall not be able to hurt them nor to trouble their peace and vnion in the mean time she leaueth the iudgemēt of the hart to god and it is sufficient for her to entertaine her shepe and lambes in peace and to let the wolfes that they scatter not the flocke ¶ VVhat prayse is due to good princes Magistrates which employ them selues in the reformation of the Church and vvhat fruite it getteth by their labor and office as vvell for the cause of the faithfull as of the hypocrites and of the chaunges that happen in Religion accordyng to the princes that raygne T. I Say not the contrarie or otherwise when the Churche is troubled and scattered we should reiect the meanes whiche God hath gyuen to repayre it whiche we may not do wtout tēpting of God Wherfore I do very wel alow the goodwil and diligence of such as trauail faithfully in the procuring of a lawful Councel or Synodes such as are requisite in the Churche of God and I Iudge those princes worthy of great prayse which accordyng to the example of Ezechias ii Reg. xviii 22. 23 2. Chr. 29. 34. Ezech. iii. and Iosias do endeuour them selues to reforme those Churches that ar within their liberties and countreys For allbeit that many dwell still in their olde skins yet do they their duety for their part They glorifie in their offices they do assure entertayne the good in peace They are a means to make strong those that are weake and do discharge their soules from the bloud of such as perishe throughe their own default and not in that that they haue not done their duety And therfore I deny not but that of lawful Councels there commeth often tymes great profite for a certaine tyme for the pollice and outward peace of the Church but I say that they ar not sufficient thorowly to appease the troubles that are in Christendome and to edifie perfectly the inwarde man to quiet the conscience in deede and to gyue it true quietnes and assuraunce if nothyng els They are vnto the wicked as the authoritie of the sword and of the Magistrate may wel stay their hands feet but they cā not alter nor chaūge Prou. 10 their heartes whiche onely God hath in his hād euen as the diuision of waters and enclineth them to what part he wil. We haue the example hereof very playne in Ezechias and Iosias of whom we haue already spokē whilest these good kynges lyued all errors abuses Idolatries and superstitions were abolished outwardly and put away from among the people of God and the Churche was well reformed but it was not clearely plucked out of the harts of them all but was secretly nourished vnto that tyme that occasion was offred to declare them selues as experience doth witnesse For as soone as they had chaūged
those thinges whereof we haue alreadye discoursed to that purpose and because I will not be to tedious vnto thee D. Feare not to demaunde of me for there is nothing that I doe more willinglye T. I know that wel but I should be to much discourtese and rude if I shoulde haue no regarde nor spare thee more then thou wouldest spare thy selfe Moreouer it is not suffiiâ—ent for me to heare onely as doe many scholers whiche charge them selues with moe lessons then their capacitie may endure doing nothing but heare without profitting or learning of any thing D. Thou haste reason in that that thou sayest ⧠The effect of the thyrd Dialogue intitled the authoritie of Councells making mention of the auncient doctors and decrees I Doe conteyne in this Dialogue following the matter of Councels concernyng theyr authoritie alledging many examples of auncient hystories by the which I doe shewe the greate contrarietye that hath beene betwene many Councels and many decrées and Canons as wel of them as of Romishe Popes There is in the same also mention made of the libertie geueÌ„ to Christians for to reforme the abuses that shall happen in religion and of the duetie that euery man doth owe to the same and of the attent of them that do attend vpon those that are called the prelates of the church Likewise of the lawefull assembles that are made in the name of Christ and of the gift of Prophecie and of the promise of God and to whom and vppon what condition Moreouer of the authoritie of the true and lawfull Councels which must be holdeÌ„ to be the very rule and lyne to rule all others and what proceeding and order the Pope and his do obserue in theirs And as touching the rest euery man may the more easely vnderstand the other poyntes and matters thâ—t therin are entreated of by the litle summes or titles by the which we haue packed theÌ„ together shortly declaring them in order euen as we haue done in the Dialognes going before It is easye to iudge by thys som why I haue geuen thys title to thys Dialogue ⧠The thyrd Dialogue intitled the authoritie of Councells ¶ Of the asistance of the holy Ghost in lavvful Councels and of his giftes and of the perpetual conseruation of the truth in the church Tymothe Daniell IF thou haddest tyme I woulde verye gladlye that thou wouldest continue those matters of the which we did discourse at our laste departure of the one from the other D. I am readye when so euer thou wilte be ready to heare And therfore declare what thou haste to saye as touching the writings of the auncient Fathers and Doctors what difference there ought to be put betwene them and the decrées passed and determined in the lawfull Councells T. When these good fathers and auncient doctors do teach or write any thing in particular they may more easely erre being as particulars theÌ„ when they are assembled together at the Councel in the which the spirit of God doth assiste in greater effecte and vertue in so much as the giftes graces which he hath geuen to euery member of the body of Iesus Christ are all there together euen as it were in one perfecte Roma xii i. Cor. xii Ephe. 4 i Sam. 10 body Wherefore the one helpeth the other and euery man feeleth the more presently the vertue of the spirit of God in himself For if Saule which was forsaken of God dyd prophecie among the Prophets after that he was come into their companies in such sort that it became a common prouerbe among the Hebrewes and it was sayd is not Saule also amongest the Prophets Is it not more like to be true that God will geue the spirite of prophecie to them that come together to the Councell for his glory and for the edification of the Church For where is it that the promises by the which God doth promyse his perpetuall assistaunce and an euerlasting course of truth to his church shoulde haue place if not in such a company Hath he not sayd behold my couenaunt which I haue made with them My spirit which is in thee and my wordes which I haue put into thy mouth shal Esay iix not depart froÌ„ thy mouth nor froÌ„ the mouth of thy seede foreuer And agayne he will geue you an other comforter the spirit of truth to the end that he tarye with you And he shal Iohn xiiii lead you in the knowledge of all truth D. I will not vtterly denie al that thou saiest if they come together to that end that thou speakest of But al Synedes Seanes and Councels haue not alwayes ben assembled in the name of Iesus Christ The examples which are in the ecclesiasticall hystoryes doe witnesse the same and the Canons and decrees which haue bene ordayned and concluded in them For oftentimes they repugne the one to the other as much as do the fyre and water ¶ VVhat thynges there are to be desired in Councells yea euen in those Councells vvhich haue beene moste excellent and lavvfull of all those that haue bene celebrated and holden since the tyme of the Apostles T. I Would very gladly that thou wouldest proue by some examples worthy of fayth that which thou now sayest D. Euen those same that haue bene most lawfullye assembled although thei haue ordained established very good things founded vpon the word of God and that they haue mightelye defended the cause of the truth that God hath not suffered them to erre in the chiefe pointes in matters that are properly the very substance of religion and do concerne the articles of the fayth necessarye vnto saluation yet doth it not follow for all that but that they may haue erred in some thinges that they may haue made constitutions that somtime are more contrary to the word of God theÌ„ coÌ„formable And without seking any further we nede but to examine the Canons decrées ordinaunces of the Councell of Nice which is accompted the chiefe of all next to the Councell of the Apostles of all that reste consequently which men thinke to be that most perfect certayn most worthy of credite and it shall be easye to iudge if euery of theÌ„ hold in al respectes the Apostolike maiestie authoritie how farre of they are oftentimes froÌ„ the puritie of doctrine which was in the primitiue church For God would not do vnto others that honour which he hath done to his Prophets Apostles to the end that the humaine authoritie should not be coÌ„parable to the deuine which ought alwaies to be preferred How many lawes constitutions may men fynde made in these Councels which draw more nere to mans wysedome or to Iewishe and Paganishe supersticion then to the simplicitie of the doctrine of the Apostles I speake of the verye same that haue bene decreed by those Councells that are best allowed in the church of God and Christ and are worthye to bee esteemed
with Ma 18. 28 you to the end of the worlde if he promes to be in the myddest of two or three by more apparant reason ought we to beleue that he is in the middest of a whole Councel D. But we must note vpon what conditions he promiseth to bee among them First he sayth that if we do agree together vpō the earth if we be of one accorde of one consent of one hart and of one spirite if we be carefull to kepe vnitie of spirite throughe the band of peace if we be one body and one spirite as we ar called into one hope of our vocation as there Eph. 4. is one Lord one fayth and one Baptisme one God and father of al. And besides this if we be gathered together in his name to wit in his vertue and force and not in the vertue and power of mē for his honor and glori and not for ours neither yet for our ambitiō for the edificatiō of his Churche and the health of poore soules not for our profite aduaūcement but wishing veritie to haue the victorie and not we now let vs see if it be easie to obserue all these condicions what hope we may haue in our tyme of a Councell that shall obserue all these pointes without the whiche in dede he can not be called a Councell but rather a Synagoge of Sathā and can bring no commoditie to Christendome but rather hurte and destruction how is it possible to haue him such an one as he ought to be consideryng that those whiche should procure it feare nothyng more then to haue a Councel such an one as he ought to be T. It is easie to iudge by that that hath ben already sayd ¶ Hovve that the holy Ghost is neither subiect nor bounde to any kinde of person or estate D. THere is yet one thyng more very well worthy to bee noted whiche is that our Lord Iesus Christe did not say when a generall Councell shal be gathered together or all the estates of Christendome or the Pope the Cardinals and Bishops or els a great assemble shall be had I will be in the middest of them but he sayd he would be in the middest of them yea although they wer but two or three so that they were gathered together in his name In the whiche he doth playnly declare that he will be bounde neither to menne yet to estates neither yet to the multitude but how smal so euer the nomber be of what estate so euer the men be he will be in the middest of them prouided that they come together as they ought to do For all though the promesse of Iesus Christ be made to his whole Churche yet doth it appartaine in no wise to hipocrites false Pastors and false Christians whiche are not in any wise true mēbers of the same whiche is the body of Iesus Christ but are members of Sathan and of his Synagoge And therfore onely must it extend to the true members of the Churche among whome these thynges may be practised which S. Paul setteth forth to the Churche of the Corinthes sayng let two or three Prophetes speake and let the rest iudge And if any thyng be reuealed i. Cor. iiii to any other of the assistantes let the first holde hys peace There is no man but may easily vnderstād that this cā not be obserued but in the true Church of Iesus Christ among those that haue the gift of the spirit of God which is not gyuen to carnal men and straungers to Christian doctrine but to such as are spirituall and those whiche call vpō the name of God in truth for the spirituall man may iudge ◠Cor. ii of spirituall thynges and not the carnal how is Christ then in the middest of his and doth assiste thē by his holy spirite in so much as they are gathered together in his name other wise he will be in no companie although the whole worlde were gathered together with all her pompe if it be not assēbled in the name of Iesus to such end as hath ben already declared Wee haue a manifest example by the small assemblees of the Apostles and of the primitiue Churche and by those of the great Synagoge of Bishops of Priestes of Scribes and Phariseis and of the Councels of the Iewes for it is written of such It shall be gyuen to euery man that Math. xx◠Ose iiii hath and he shal become plentiful but he that hath nothing euen that whiche he hath shall be taken from him And in Ose bycause thou hast refused the knowlege I haue also refused thee to the end thou shouldest not sacrifice to me and bycause thou hast forgoten the law of thy God I will also forget thy children And therfore he sayth yf you abyde still in my worde you shall be my disciples and shall knowe the Iohn xvii◠truth Then he promiseth not to be among them whiche by a false title shal be assēbled in his name to gyue new lawes and ordinaunces to the Churche concernyng Religion but to obserue and kepe those whiche he hath gyuen and to vse the keis which she hath receiued of him in such sort as he him selfe hath ordeined For the Church nedeth none other lawes but euen those which she hath receiued of him and therfore math 16. 1◠the Councell of Gangers hath accursed all those which continue not in the law of the Lord and do dayly make new ordinaunces T. This is very reasonable and doth well agree with that whiche is written of the Lord happy are those Psalm cxi◠whiche continew without spot in the way whiche walke in the law of the Lord happy are they which do enquire of the testimonies of the same D. And therefore Christ doth say searche you the Scriptures yf any man do loue me he will Iohn v Iohn xiiii i. Tim. iiii kepe my worde And S. Paul to Timothe Geue attendance vnto readyng T. These are very good aduertisementes ¶ VVhat assembles the faithfull do make and of the auncient Decrees concernyng the celebration of Councels D. IF there were no question but to holde Councels and Synodes among the faithfull whiche haue professed the Gospell and to gather them together to agree them yf they haue any difference among them as there was in the primitiue Churche in certayne pointes bycause the one did not well vnderstand the other it were but an easie matter as it was for the apostles their disciples but that could not content the world Such meetinges and assembles are very good to entertaine the Churches in peace and in the vnion of the doctrine and of the Christian discipline for that cause it was decreed in the v. Canon of the Councell of Nice that their should be yearely in euery prouince two Councels of Bishops the one a litle before Lent the other about the Autumne which thing is now no more obserued in the Popish Churche then are other good thy
witnesses onely which notwithstanding ought to haue some authority but before the eyes of all the people which were in no small number For before that time in their comming out of Egypt they were about sixe hundred thousand men valiant Exod. xii and able to weare weapons beside the women and children and a great number of other people T. Then was ther a great number of witnesses D. Yea and that of such witnesses as did see the thing with their own eyes and did heare it with their own eares If Moyses had come to the people and should haue sayd that God had spoken to hym and that he had geuen him the lawe which he presented to the people in Gods name ther is no doubt but y◠he shoulde haue found mockers and euill speakers and a great number of rebels and Mutiners in so great a people to haue scoffed at Moyses and to haue mutined rebelled against him saying that he had bene a lyar and a craftye and deceitful man which would couer him selfe with the name authority of God to erect a tyrannye ouer that people and to deale with them according to his pleasure T. It is not vnlike by that that happened after that this was done for if Core Dathan and Abiron with their adherentes which Numb xvi were thē selues witnesses of al these maruels by the which God did authorise the ministerye of Moyses durst to conspire and rebell againste Moyses and Aaron and did finde such a number of followers after suche an authorising of their voeation what woulde haue become of them if that God had not so armed them with his authority ¶ Of the declarations and aduertismentes that God did gyue to the people of Israel before he gaue them hys lavv by Moyses D. ANd therfore God did first commaund Moyses to declare vnto the people the workes which he most marueilously had done as well in the lande of Egipt as in the Exod. xix going forth out of the same by the which he did shewe hys great power in ouerthrowing the force of the Egiptians through his wrath and deliuering his people from their tiranny through his mercye to the ende that they might the better vnderstand of what power he was to punishe those whiche shoulde rebell agaynste his lawe and to shewe mercy vnto those that should submit them selues thereunto and how woorthye he was both to be feared and loued and in what reputacion they oughte to haue his seruaunt Moyses by whose hand he had done these greate woorkes and afterward to cause his people the more to loue hym the better to encourage them to heare his woord to obey his law he doth renew the auncient promises which were made to them and to their fathers and more strongly doth confirm and establish them declaring vnto them the great honour the great profyt and the great wealth that should happen vnto them if that they did obey their God serue him according to his wil and lawe After that he had made all these declarations he then gaue them to vnderstande how he was determined to shewe him selfe and to speake vnto them and to geue vnto Moyses in their presence hys law according to the which he will be honored and serued and then he declareth the cause and the reason why he wyl do it To the end sayth he that the people doo heare whilest I speake to thee and also that they beleue thee for euer T. These are godly admonitions ¶ VVhat tokens God gaue of his presence in the mount Synay vvhen he did geue and publish hys lavv D. IT cannot then be sayde hers that these thinges were fayned and that Moyses did vniustlye make them beleue that God did speake vnto him and gaue him that law Exod. xi◠whiche he brought to the people and yet that there was no suche thing at all For the people did see the cloude in the which God spake vnto Moyses to declare therby his maiesty To wyt that he is the chiefe King and Prince of heauen and of earth vnto whom al creatures must obey And forsomuch as God doth more manifest his presēce his glory his power and his maiesty in the heauen in the ayre then in any other of his creatures he tooke the cloudes for to declare his maiesty and soueraigntye that he hath ouer al. But he was not yet contented with this but before he would discend into the mount Synay in the thick darck cloude he caused the thunder to burst out in a marueilous sorte in the ayre whose crackes were heard al ouer made a horrible and a fearfull noyse He did also sende foorth the great lightnings in such sorte that at the ayre was lighted and was fylled with great fyres which were sene in al places very terrible On the other syde the people did see all the Mountayne in a smoke as it had bene of a great fyre or of a burning furnace They hearde also the cornet and the trumpet found which did ring with a marueilous violēce made a very feareful noyse in such sort as ther was neither great nor small that was not wonderfully afrayde did not tremble with great horrour and was not as it wer halfe dead for feare All that whyle the whole mountayne was couered with the great cloud in the which God spake with a mighty voice in the hearing of al the people and did pronounce from his own mouth the verye same woordes which he had written with his owne finger in the two tables of stone the which Moyses did afterward bring down from the mountayne of Synay and of the talke whiche he had with God in the same hyll ¶ Of the signification of the signes vvhich God dyd geue in geuing his lavv and of the reasons vvhy and hovv much they are agreable vvith the nature of the lavv T. WHat was the meanyng of al that for it was not done without cause D. It serued for the more strong cōfirmation of the thinges whereof we haue already spoken for there was none of them but that they did knowe ryght well that there was neyther illusion nor enchauntmente in those thinges and that they were done by no power of man but of God wherefore they serued againe as a new seale for the confirmation of the ministerye and vocation of Moyses of the maiesty and power of God to saue hys to destroy his aduersaries for by that he did declare that he was the God of nature and that he did dispose of her euen as it pleased him and that he dyd all that he woulde as well in heauen as in earth And therfore he would him selfe euen from his own mouth preach vnto his people he would also ring to the sermon that he would make vnto them and prepare them and make them hedefull to heare him He had then for his belles for his Musike the Cornet and trumpette to cause them to heare his voyce and to
truth wittingly 14. 15 Of such as do resist the truth and persecute it through ignoraÌ„ce 1516 How that the want of the knowledge of god his truth 15. 17 Of the great care and diligence that is in men 17. 18 Of the diligence that is in men to do euyll 18. 19 Of the vices that make men ignorant of god of his truth 19. 20 Of such as do contemn the knowledge of God 20 21 Of the tru knowlege of god 22. 22 Of the true study of the holy scriptures 23. 23 Of such Christians as are ignoraÌ„t of the word of God 23. 24 How much necessary the study of the word of God is 25. 25 Of the desired ignorance 26. 26 How that the publicatioÌ„ that God hath made of hys word 27. 27 Of the meanes by which god hath and doth declare him selfe dayly to men 27. 28 Of those that cloke their rebellion agaynst the woord and wyll of God 28. 29 Of those whiche coÌ„mit idolatries to their princes 30. 30 Of the offices of good princes and good subiectes 31. 31 How those men obey the deuill not their princes 32. 32 Of lawfull lawes of Christian Princes 33. 33 Of vnfaythful seruantes to Princes of their councels â–ª agaynste God 34. 34 Of the iudgement of the Christian doctrine and by whom it must be reported 35. 35 Of the causes why the Princes shuld enquire of the wil of god at the mouth of his ministers 37. 36 Dishonour done to God by suche as vouchsafe not to enquire of his wyl at the handes of his ministers 38. 37 What meane and order Princes ought to kepe in iudgmeÌ„t of thinges apertaining to religioÌ„ 39. 38 Howe men ought to haue greater care for matters appertayning to religion 41. 39 How that men make more accouÌ„t of their promises then of theyr consciences 42. 40 Of the care that ought to be had to know yâ— way of saluatioÌ„ 44. 41 Admonitions in the holye Scriptures against false Prophetes 45. 42 How great busines letteth yâ— hearing of the word of God 46. 43. Meanes to aduaunce or hinder the busines of men 48. 44. Mockers and haters of the Gospel and wil seme no. 49. 45 Of Epicurians amoÌ„g the Christians their diuersitie 50. 46 Testimonies of Epicurians of Gods prouidence iustice against their false opinions 51. 47 Light of gods worde geuen to meÌ„ the nature of the same 52. 48 The authoritie of holy scripture 53. 49. Diuelish peruersitie of EpicuriaÌ„s their agreement with the doctrine of Mahomet 56. 50 Of mans traditions 57. 51 How we ought not to do yâ— which semeth good onely in our owne sight and opinion 58. 52 Of the workes that are done to a good intent 60. 53 To vnderstand whether god haue ordained sundry religions or no 61. 54 Of the causes of the diuersitie of the positine lawes 62. 55 Of the agreemente of the positiue lawes wyth the Ceremoniall lawes 63. 56 What libertie God hath geuen in the vsage of ceremonies 65. 57. ⧠The second Dialogue OF the reasons which cause manye to desire and wayte for a Councell 68. 1 Of the difference that is in Christendom in matters of religion and what it doth 69. 2 What profite the Church of God may receiue of Councels and of their issues 70. 3 Of the hope that menne may haue of the couÌ„cel in these daies 72. 4 Of the meanes of the enemies of the truth for the maintenance of their kingdoÌ„ false religioÌ„ 73. 5 Of the dauÌ„ger into the which they cast theÌ„selues which atteÌ„d onelye vpon Councels 74. 6 Of christiaÌ„ princes to reforme the Church by meane of a generall â—oâ—â—cell 75. 7 Of 〈◊〉 negligence and want that 〈◊〉 â—he ministers of the church 76. 8 Of the empeachments of men in yâ— reformatioÌ„ of the church 78. 9 How difficulte it is to assemble a lawful CouÌ„cel at this day 79. 10 How the Christians hinder the reformation of the Church 81. 11 What Councel the true christians ought to follow 83. 12 Of such as woulde agree the doctrine of Iesus Christe and that of Antichrist together 84. 13 The Interim maye not be receyued neither into the Churche of christ ne yet of Antichrist 85. 14 Of such christians as be Newters and indifferent 86. 15 For what cause the Interim hath his name of an aduerbe 88. 16 The profite that those that be instructed in Gods word may receiue by the Councels 89. 17 We oght not to be the disciples of meÌ„ but of Iesus Christ 90. 18 The word of God dothe authorise it selfe 92. 19 What goodnes men may receyue of a good CouÌ„cel and what euil of an euil Councel 93. 20 What the good Councels may do to the wycked 94. 21 What frute the church may receue of the lawful Councels 96. 22 What prayse is due to good princes and magistrates 97. 23 Hipocrisy of such as depend vpon meÌ„ in matter of religion 98. 24 How we are disciples of men and how of Iesus Christ 100. 25 Of the nature and vertue of true fayth 101. 26 Of the honor that is due to good true teachers in the church 103. 27 Of the diffâ—rence of the apostles prophets and of those that came after them 105. 28 The Councell of S. Auâ—â—â—â—yne concerning Councels 〈◊〉 â—â—itings of the Fathers 〈…〉 ⧠The third Dialogue intituled The authoritie of Councels OF the assistance of the holy ghost in lawful Councels 109. 1 What is to be desyred in CouÌ„cels those which are most excellent 111. 2 Of the weakenesses which wer in the Councel of Nice 112. 3 Of the contrarieties betwene the bishoppes ministers that haue bene in many aunciente Councels 113. 4 Of the contradictioÌ„s of the popes and their decrees 114. 5 Of the contrarietie of the decrees of many Councels 116. 6 Of the contrarictie of certain couÌ„cels concernyng the difference of meates 118. 7 Of the decrees of the Councels of Constance and Basle touchyng the Lordes supper vnder bothe kyndes 119. 8 Contrarietie in many CouÌ„cels coÌ„cernyng Images 120. 9 Of the Councel of Carthage concerning the Baptisme administred by heretiques 121. 10 OpinioÌ„ of the papists concerning general and particular CouÌ„cels 122. 11 Of the abuses and errors whiche haue ben broght into the church 122. 12 Of those that would haue the prelates of the church to correct the abuses that therin are 124. 13 Thinges of them selues sufficiently resolued without resolution of the Councel 125. 14 The liberty of Christians in reforming abuses 127. 15 The passages which the Papistes alledge to authorise their Councels 129. 16 The holy ghost is not bounde to any kind of persoÌ„ or estate 1â—9 17 Of the asseÌ„bles of yâ— faithful 131. 18 Of the Councels of the hereticks condemning the CouÌ„cels of the faythful 132. 19 The contradicions of the auncieÌ„t Councels declare that the councels may erre 134. 20 No hope for the ChristiaÌ„s to haue a lawful Councel 136. 21 What praiers men ought to make for their
Princes 138. 22 What Councel they ought to follow that haue princes whych ar enemies to the Gospel 139. 23 Of the studi of the holy scriptures and of the decrees of the CouÌ„cel of Nice coÌ„cerning the sam 140. 24 Of the true Councels which excel al the rest in authority 142. 25 The authoritye of Princes Popes concerning councels 143. 26 Of the maner of the proceedyng of the Papistes in their Councels 144. 27 Prudence required in dispuâ—aâ—ion in the papistik councels 145. 28 Resolucion of the papistical councels 146. 29 What discords may be in the councels of the Papists 147. 30 Of the Popes practises for his determination and conclusion of Councels 149. 31 Of the ignorance of the popish byshops 150. 2 Of the final conclusion and resolucion of the Councell of the Papistes 151. 33 The order of the bishops in giuing their consent in the papisticall Councels 153. 34 ⧠The fourth dialogue intituled The resolution of Councels Of the charge whyche God gaue vnto Moyses 155. 1 The allowing of the old testament is the allowing of the new 157. 2 For what cause God did allowe confirm wyth such authority the ministery of Moyses 158. 3 Of the subtilties of the PagaÌ„ law makers false prophets 159. 4 Of the testimonies that God hath geuen to Moyses of hys vocation 161. 5 Of the aduertismeÌ„ts that God did giue to the people of Israel 162. 6 What tokens God gaue of his presence in the mouÌ„t Synay 163. 7 Of the signification of the signes which God dyd gyue in gyuing hys law 164. 8 Of the vsage of the law 165. 9 For what cause God woulde feare the people of Israel by those signes whyche he gaue in the mouÌ„t Synay 165. 10 Of the trumpet whiche did sounde in the mount Synay 166. 11 Of the last and generall iudgemeÌ„t of God 167. 12 Of the sanccifitation that God required of hys people when hee would geue hys law 169. 13 Of fastinges and of differences of meates which the papistes vse and of their original 170. 14 Of the sobrierie abstinence honesty that is required of the christians 171. 15 Of the Counsell that was holden in the mount Syon 172. 16 Of the manifestation of God in Christ 174. 17 Of the last scale and of the last declaration and contirmation of the doctrine of God 176. 18 Of the examinacioÌ„ of the true christian doctrine 178. 19 Of the vengeaunce of God against those yâ— despise the gospel 179. 20 Of the difference that men do commonly put betwene the lawe of rigour the law of grace 1â—0 21 Of the difference and diuersitie of the lawes of Moyses of their nature 181 22 Of the abolishynge of the lawe of Moyses and of the olde Testament 183. 23 Of the difference that is betwene the faithful vnfaithful 184. 24 Of the benefyt of Iesus Christ â— of the good thinges that we receiue by hym 185. 25 In what sort we ought to vnderstand that the law is not ordayned for the iust and the faithful but for the vniust faithles 185. 26 Of the cause for the which the vnfaythful remayne styl subiect to the law 187. 27 Of the commoditye that the faithfull maye also haue of the lawe 187. 28 Of the agreement of the lawe and the Gospel 189. â—9 Of the bookes of the great and â—â—neral councels of God 〈…〉 FINIS ✚ Imprinted at London by Ihon Day dwelling ouer Aldersgate beneath Saint Martins ⸫ ¶ Cum gratia priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis per Septennium ¶ These bokes are to be solde at his shop vnder the Gate
the whiche Pilate dyd very well knowe And therefore he woulde not condemne Iesus Christe vpon the onely reporte of the Iewes when they had brought hym vnto hym all ready condemned in theyr Counsell nor was forthwith preste to commaunde hym to be executed as an euill doer accordynge to their desire but did diligently enquire of the causes for the which they would haue hym to be condemned gyuing them playnely to vnderstande that he woulde not be their hangemen but woulde do the office of a Iudge whiche is duely to examine the cause And if he see the sentence of hys assistauntes to be vniuste he oughte not to folowe it but to reiecte it accordyng to the authoritie that God hath gyuen hym and he ought to put in vse that whiche is written in the lawe to Exod 10 that same purpose Thou shalte not folowe the multitude to do euill for if he gyue sentence contrary to ryght and equitie he shall make aunswere for the same before God For if he know it be vniuste and do consent and agree to it or els do dissemble the matter or els thorowe negligence he hath not sought to vnderstand the truth of it he can not excuse hymselfe but that he is greatly culpable before God T. That is very true ¶ Hovve men ought to haue greater care for those matters that appertayne to Religion then for any others and the reasons vvhy D. MOreouer the case in matters of Religion is not lyke to that of other matters or of other artes sciences occupations and estates For wheÌ„ there is question in matters of Religion we haue not a matter in hand of a péece of money or of a péece of lande or for an other man whiche toucheth not vs at all But a matter of the greatest importance that may be and toucheth all men in generall and in particular so neare as nothynge in the worlde doth so nearely touch them Yf there were question of a péece of an earthly inheritaunce or els of our honor fame we would not so greatly put others in trust but that we wold put to our own haÌ„d would know in what sort the matter should passe And further if it wer a matter that touched our life we would not slepe the matter but would be so much that more carefull we would leaue no meane vnsought for that myght stand vs in stede T. ExperieÌ„ce teacheth it plainly D. Nowe in this matter wherof we speake the question is of the greatest honor or dishonor that euer may happeÌ„ vnto vs here is the questioÌ„ of a maruelous great honor glory or els of an extreme shame confusion whiche we shall once receaue before the face of God before al meÌ„ which euer haue ben are or shal be this questioÌ„ is of an eternall inheritauÌ„ce to wit of Paradise or els of hell here is the questioÌ„ of our death or of our life not onely teÌ„poral but eternal Wherfore I do gretly maruel of those that haue so great trust in the sond fayth of their Curates Priestes Monckes Byshops and Prelates whiche coÌ„mitte theÌ„ wholly into their handes both body and soule T. There are no small nomber of those that do so ¶ Of those men that make greater accoumpt of their purses then of their consciences and of the dauÌ„ger into the which they cast theÌ„selues that coÌ„mit such charge to false teachers and they them selues to haue no great regard to the same D. I Would gladly vnderstaÌ„d of those meÌ„ if they would in the like sorte trust theÌ„ with their purses neuer aske theÌ„ any accoÌ„pt nor neuer haue regard to their gouernmeÌ„t T. I do not beleue it For there is no prince nor other that committeth the charge of his affaires to others but that somtime he will know in what sort they are passed done D. TheÌ„ their purse is dearer vnto theÌ„ theÌ„ is their coÌ„scieÌ„ce or their soule or els that inheritauÌ„ce of the kingdom of heaueÌ„ for they put their trust in such coÌ„mit the whole charge of their coÌ„sciences soules to those that they would hardly trust for a couple of crownes they esteme very sleÌ„derly that price which our Lord Iesus Christ hath payed for theÌ„ whiche is much more precious i. Pet. â— theÌ„ all the gold all the siluer that euer was in the world T. They do trust as I haue already said that these men shal aunwere for theÌ„ D. It is very true that they shal auÌ„swere but so much the worse for those for whoÌ„ they shall aunswere for so much as they shall not by meanes therof be acquited of the det for if it must needes be shall that they aunswere for default of that debt whiche they owe to our greate Lorde whiche shall not be payd vnto him according as their office doth require it shal be theÌ„ for that the same is lost The Lord speaking of this matter saith by his Prophet Ezechiel that he Ezech. 3. 33 wil require at that haÌ„ds of the shepherd the bloud of the shepe which shal perish through his default it foloweth theÌ„ that the shepe shal be lost whose blud the lord wil require WheÌ„ a murderer hath slayne a man is taken vpon the same he must Examplâ— satisfie the iustice with hys own lyfe yet notwithstandyng the payne whiche he shall endure shal be small recompense to hym that is slayne Wherfore I do not thinke that those men whiche make so small accoumpte of the lyfe of theyr soules woulde lose their bodely lyfe for such a price T. I am of your oppinion D. If a man do vs wrong either in spoylynge vs of our worldlye goods or els in vsinge any violence agaynste our personnes and we endure the same patiently for the honoure of God this same shal be no losse vnto vs before God but a great profite for God hath promised great rewarde to those that shall suffer wrongfully In this behalfe none shal sustayn the losse but he onely that Mar. v hathe done the wronge for he hathe hurte hys soule and there is no hurte that can so hurte a man as can that hurte But in thys matter whereof we doo nowe speake the soule is not onely hurte but slayne wherefore the losse can neuer be recouered And therefore I would wishe that such as are of that opinion should well consider that whiche Iesus Christ sayd let them alone for they are blynd and leaders of the blinde If the blynde leade the blynde both shall fall into the dyke He doth not saye that the blynde guyde Mathe. 15. shall alone fall into the dyke but he also that shal be led by hym wherefore that councell is best to be folowed whiche Iesus Christe hym selfe doth gyue in that behalfe in the same passage or texte he doth not say Folow such leaders and if they lead you wronge they shall endure the punishement for you â—nd you shall go free but he gyueth expressed commaundement to flee
principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of ⧠The second Dialogue intituled the waiting for the Councell or the Newtralles Of the reasōs vvhich cause many to desire vvait for a Councel and of the trouble that the difference vvhich is in Christendome in matters of Religion doth bryng to simple and ignoraunt consciences Daniel Timothe D. THou doost well remēber where we left as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell T. Yea in dede D. Will these men tary to beleue in God to serue him and to enquire of his will vntill the tyme that the Councell hath ben holden and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation of that which thou hast said that if they should serue God truly it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof why do they then tary for a Councell T. Bycause they say that in so great diuersitie of opinions as at this present day is in Christendome in matters of Religion they know not whiche to folow in surety For they see that some teache after one sort the others after an other that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions as betwene white and blacke and betwene fire and water That whiche one aloweth an other disaloweth that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine and for true seruice of God an other condempneth it as heresie or els as superstition hypocrisie Idolatrie and Apostasie And besides this ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance great vnderstanding and great authoritie accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side then of the other men heare their discourses men read their writtinges bookes there are goodly reasons of both partes which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures and by all meanes possible In this cause what shal a poore man do whiche feareth to offend God and hath a good desire to serue him accordyng to his wil but he may not wel attain to the knowlege therof bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God the other sayth it is not the will of God ¶ Hovve that the difference that is in Christendome in matters of Religion should not stay men from the diligent enquirie of the vvyl of GOD but shoulde rather prouoke them thereunto T. I Confesse that these differences which are in Christendome engender great trouble in the poore consciences of many but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible of the will of God and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him but they should the more earnestly be moued and prouoked to do it to ridde them selues with as much speede as they myght out of suche troubles For why least they tary in it if they haue any feare of God in what trouble shall they lyue and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate without hauynge some thynge certayne and resolued in my mynde whereunto I myght assuredlye staye T. For thys they require a Councell for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined that there shall bee a generall and a sure determination throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte and may know wherunto to trust D. It semeth vnto me that their hope is very slender if they haue no better hope then this I maye not deny but their desire is good we all ought to desire the same if there were any hope to se it come to passe that with spede for the soner it were that better bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of the soule thē of the body for if the medicine of the body come not in tyme to hym that is sicke that sicke person is not in daūger but onely of his bodely life but if the medicine of y◠soule be to long deferred ther is daūger of eternall death wherfore I do greatly feare that manye doo perish in tarying for those medicines T. There is much to be feared and also to be doubted in this matter ¶ VVhat profite the Churche of God may receaue of Councelles and of theyr issue D. THe Sinodes lawfull Coūcels is one of the best remedies that mē may haue to take away cōtrouersies in religiō it is the remedi wherunto in like cases that Apostles their true successors al that aūciēt church haue oftētimes had their recourse for albeit that the Coūcels haue no authority nor power to giue vnto the churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith but only to hold maintain y◠doctrine which is reueled by the holy Scriptures yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose in so much that they be as publike witnesses vnto it to succor the infirmitie of the simple weake also such as shall come after vs by the confessiō which is made of the same by thē by the publike testificatiō y◠there is declared by the perpetual cōsent of the Church of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end that the aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues better meanes much more meete for such a purpose then we haue at this presēt yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine that in their Coūcels which they desired And such vntowardnes was there that they did alway not onely not apease the differences abolish scismes heresies which troubled the Church but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples it were easy to do but we will not now enter into such matter I will cōtent me for this time to alledge onely touching this matter that testimonie the Gregory Nazianzen which was Master to S. Hierom did giue writting to Procopius of the Coūcels of his tyme whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time if I must nedes sayth he write the truth I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good or rather that they haue more encreased the euil then quenched it Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene touching this matter Which semeth to me somethynge harde for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue hath not ben such as was to be desired yet notwithstandyng Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels