to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
c. VVe say ye be they that haue contemned Christs sacramentes we saye further that not onely the generall Councell of Trent but that the whole Church hath condemned your opinions These woordes of course are answered in their places fol. 56 a He telleth vs we would mayster and rule oure Princes bicause we limit their rule to Gods worde and that wée referre the interpretation of Gods woorde to oure selues that wee make therof a welshe mans hose Whiche woordes of course are answered in their places and are so manifest the dooings of the Papists and so farre from touching vs that it is maruell with what face he could reherse suche things But such is the propretie of impudencie to obiect that to other wherein he is most culpable him selfe fol. 70. VVe plainly say this kind of supremacie is directly against Gods worde so he sayd before and so let him say sâ—…il so long as he doth but say so and can neuer proue it These and suche like his sayings good reader as thou séest them but mere words of course so thou shalt fynd them swarme thorow â—…ut all his booke and if any of them be not answered for thou séest I cut them off for breuitie sake answere then them as thou thinkest good easy answer God wote may serue them and his owne wordes serue for all returned on him selfe 〈◊〉 nomine de 〈◊〉 fubula narratur change but the name and the tale is tolde of thee Fol. 31. b. In the meane season for these and all his other wordes of course I will say to him againe as he sayth to the Bishop Neither vvill I thanke you for bringing to our hands so good stuff to proue our principal purpose by but say herein to you as S. Aug. sayd in the lyke case to the Donatists alleaging the workes of Optatus by whiche they were euen confounded and the catholikes cause maruellously furthered Neâ—…mmen ipsis â–ª c. Neyther doo wee yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God for that they shoulde bring foorth and vtter eyther by talke or by alleaging all those thinges for our matter the truth forced them not any charitie inuited them And so truly M. Stapleton that you haue alleaged all this and other lyke wordes of course when they are 〈◊〉 compensed to you you are euen so confounded by them that it had ben better for your cause ye had not so muche vsed them but that ye brought suche good stuffe to our handes the truth of our cause forceth you not any good will to our cause or to vs moued you Maister Stapletons ovvne vvords returned to him selfe for all these his Common places MOderate your penne better reporte your authors more syncerely translate your allegations more truely laye downe the whole sentence without concealing of such matter as ouerthroweth your purpose say no more than ye fynd in stories slander not your betters deale more aduisedly and vprightly séek not out so often bymatters starting holes quarell not somuch about trifles of letters syllables escapes in printing raile not so bitterly scoffe not so LuciaÌ„like boast vaunt not with such defacings of persons and outfacings of the matter leaue your vain rhetorik of Copia verboruÌ„ and rolling on a letter vse not as ye cal them so many words of course let your tale hang better together without so many contradictions so shall your vntruthes be fewer an other tyme but so wil your cause I assure you M. Sta come starke naked feble and miserable And al your great volume as bare â—…ield as Esops pulde crow as partly may appere by this pretie farâ—…el of some such yeur sentences and ordinarie phrases in a part of the foresayd poyntes and may further be considered what a full and sufficient booke they might make vp of them selues if al the residue throughout all the foure bookes were gathered togither and sorted in their troupes and orders of these your common places But these only shall suffise for this your first booke for a viewe of the rest to shew what good diuinitie of Louaine your volume is most â—…arced withall and what as ye say they shall looke for at your handes Master Stapletons Beadroll and collection of vntruthes vvith a plain and brief ansvver to euery one of them so many as are noted in his fyrste Booke His ovvne chalenge of the Bishop for vntruthes YOur answere is so fraighted and stuffed with falshodes your vntruthes do so swarme and muster all along youre booke that for the quantitie of your treatise you are comparable to Maister Iewell youre vntruthes amounte to the number of sixe hundred fourescore and odde they be so notorious and so many that it pitieth me in your behalf Crocodili lachrymâ—… to remember them but the places be euident and crie corruption and maye by no shifte be denied If my curiositie in noting them displease you lette the vttering of them fyrst displease your selfe then ye will the lesse be displeased with mee You knowe maister Iewell hath led vs this daunce be not angrie Maister Horne if we followe the round 1. Preface pag. 19. The ansvvere to the collection of vntruthes VVinchester If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting foorthe and publishing the booke than he durst playnly vtter Stapleton The first vntruth slaunderous concerning master Feckenhams meaning Bridges Lo euen at the first striking vp of the round what a passing notorious vntruth is here to bee the captain ringleader to all this bande ye may well M. Stapl. not pitie it but pitie youre selfe and be ashamed also to haue so cried out of suche notorious vntruâ—…hes and here to beginne your daunce with this to haue vs look for the lyke to folow the rounde Howe vntrue this is let eche man hardely coniecture and your selfe shew that M. Feckenham durst not say all that he ment oftentimes in excusing him and euen your next vntruth will somewhat declare this further 2 But seing his chief end and principal purpose entended as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke was to engraffe in the mindes of the subiects a mislikyng of the Queenes Maiestie as thoughe she vsurped a power authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters wherto she hath no right 2 His chiefe ende was farre otherwise as shall appeare You so chalenge this to be an other vntruthe that denying it to be his chiefe ende ye durste not saye but couertly confesse that an ende and purpose of him it was thoughe not the chief end Wherin ye proue that that ye chalenged before for an vntruth to be a truth that he ment more than he durst playnly vtter And yet howsoeuer ye woulde couer his and your meaning here both he in his booke and you in yours also durst plainly vtter that ye mislike hiâ—… Maiesties claime of this supreme authoritie and playnly laye to hir charge vsurpation Howe subiectlike let all true subiectes iudge And sitâ—… this his and youre bookes are
valiantly and skilfully blowne 3. a. VVorthy for this great prowesse to be if all other thinges fayle a prelate of the garter 2. a. The iolie policie of this man. 4. a. The wise trade this man keepeth 4. a. VVhat if now sir M. F. woulde reuell with like rhetoricke 4. b. These things hang togither like Germains lippes 5. a. In the first booke MAister Grindall and M. Iewell your pewfellowes 7. b. This glorious glittering pecocks tayle 7. b. Ye are a Bishop of this sewte 8. a. Your Apostles Luther and Caluin 8. a. Ye are yoked or as ye pretende maried 8. a. Ye liue in pretensed matrimonie with your Madge 8. b. Ye keepe your saide Madge 8. b. M. Cranmer his pretie conie his nobbes 8. b. Your brittle bulwarke of actes of Parliament 9. a. Luther your first Apostle 9. a. I beseech ye good sir. 11. b. This is your fine and singular inuention 12. a. VVe must plucke ye by the hornes ibid. Yea forsooth who seeth it not and withall what an honorable Prelate ye are 12. a. This man bloweth his Home a wrong 15. a. Their Euangelicall broode 15. a. Zealous Gospellers 17. a. A brother of your Gospell 17. b. The holy brotherhoode went to their drudgerie so he calleth the singing of the Psalmes 18. b. The zealous brotherhoode 19. a. The Gospellike zeale of this sacred brotherhoode 19. a. Vnder pretence for sooth of your Gospels zeale 91. a. Theodore Beza Caluines holy successor 20. b. Your deare brethren the Calui◅ists 21. ◅ Your poore honestie 21. a. M. Horne his euangelicall brethren 21. b. Caluin your greatest apostle 22. b. The Patriarches of the new Euangelicall brotherhode 22. b. A new sect of Lay head makers 22. b. The feruent brethren 23. a. Your protestant fellow of the bestrace 23. b. I promise you a well blowen blast and handsomly handled 24. ◅ Your wisedome your finenesse there was neuer a new brother ib. Such a noddy 24. a. Your holy brethren so feruent in the worde of the Lorde 25. a. Master Iohn Knoxe the newe Apostle of Scotlande 25. a. A zealous brother of Caluins schoole 25. a. Your holy brethren of Geneua 26. a. Lo good M. Horne 26. a. The Englishe brethren 26. a. This noble and clarkly worke 26. a. The Gehennicall I should say Geneuicall Church ibid. This good brotherhoode men no doubt well worthie c. To whom the Queenes Maiestie is who doubteth deepely bound and they worthy to be so well cherished at hir handes as they are 26. a. These good brethren with their newe broched diuinitie 26. a. His owne good brethren 27. a. Here is a worshipfull reason 28. b. This is as great a cause to woonder at as to see a goose go barefoote 28. b. Now will he play the worthy Logitian 28. b. M. Horne walkes like a bare footed man vpon thornes 30. b. His great cunning and skilfulnesse 32. a. As if M. Horne were a lay man and a painter 32. b. Full worshipfully concluded 32. b. Blyndly and lewdly harping 33. b. Howe proue ye it good sir. 33. b. No gramercie to you sir. 33. b. A pitifull case 33. b. Hearken wee to M. Hornes blast 34. a. By the way I trowe of some meritorious supererogation 35. b. To bynde M. Fecknam the deeper to him for his exceeding kindnesse 35. b. O gentle and louing heart 35. b. Nowe good M. Horne 36. a. This your clerkly booke 35. b. Your poore wretched soule 36. a. Your brethren of Geneua 39. a. These fellowes c. ruffle vs vp a blacke sanctus 39. a. Go on I say in Gods name M. Horne prosecute your plea stoutly God sende ye good speede 40. b. Your clerkly and honest dealing to your high commendation ibid. That ye may keepe your Madge 42. a. It may perhaps be in some ordinarie glose of Geneua his notes 42. b. A full messe of notorious vntruthes ibid. Ye haue fyne dishes and daintie cates comming after ibid. M. Horne a very good simple plaine man in his dealings 43. a. Any of the good brethren 43. b. This is but a childishe and boyishe rhethoricke 46. a. M. Nowell the schoolemaister 46. a. Let the Prince in a cope and surplusse celebrate your holy communion 46. b. Ye iumble and iarre 46. b. M. Nowell here besturreth himselfe 49. a. His ridiculous dealing were worthie to be laughed at 50. b. Your newe Geneuian Bibles 50. b. You haue shotten like a blinde man. 55. a. I thinke his wits were not his owne 56. a. VVhat an hotch potch he made 56. a. The excellent pregnant wit and great skill of this man. 56. b. Such a special grace the man hath giuen him of his master the deuill 56. b. Good sir may it please you fauourablie to heare you and your masters honourable pedegree and of their worthie feares and prowes 56. b. For your more honour and glorie I adioyne the Emperour Iulianus the Apostata 57. a. b. The race of your worthie generation 57. b. After long and honourable succession your Patriarches Luther and Caluin haue learned 57. b. Their goodly doctrine 57. b. Your newe Gospell 57. b. Your noble progenitours 57. b. Your Apostle Luther 58. a. Your Apostles Luther and Caluin 58. b. His owne deare brother Sleydan 58. b. Your Apostle Luther 59. a. Your Hugonotes and the beggerly Guests 59. b. Germaine Lutherans Frenche Caluinistes and Flemishe Guetts 59. b. Master Foxe his holy canonization 60. a. Bicause we should keepe their day a dubble feast 60. a. A stoute Confessor in this mad Martyrologe 60. a. Master Foxe playeth the wilie Foxe and sprinckleth with his false and wilie taile his filthie stale 60. b. Master Foxes authoritie verie large and ample in this his canonization 60. b. By a cunning Metamorphosis 61. a. VVill yee see the craftie dubling of a Foxe walking on the eather of the hedge 61. a. So fine and subtile a blast of an Horne a man shall not lightly finde againe among all the Horners in Englande I suppose 61. b. But yet by your leaue sir this horne hath a foule flaw 61. b. A verie blind betell blunt shift of yours 62. a As ye blindly and bluntly ghesse 62. a. Ye dreame it is spoken but in your dreame 62. a. VVhich surely is so forcible as will not beate downe a verie paper wall 62. a. These your great Canno◅s 62. a. Your rottē weake hold vnderpropped with your great sampson postes as mightie as Bulrushes 62. b. Your good Logike your lawe and like diuinitie 62. b. But now good sir c. Lo then good sir. 62 b. Vnlesse master Horne become sodenly so subtile ▪ 63. b. His deare brethren and master Foxes holy Martyrs 6◅ b. Your Apostle Luthers opinion 66. a. Your holy martyrs 66. a. A blessed martyr in master Foxes holy Kalendar 66. a. A lie and more too by a sillable 66. a. His huge monstruous martyrologe 66. b. Good stuffe I warrant you 66. b. This worthie Kalendar 66. b. This huge martyrologe 66. b.
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
alleaged c. and all thinges else that is here alleaged yet all will not reache home 68. a. VVhich aunswere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in c. 68. b. VVhich I am assured all Catholikes will graunt 68. b. Giue to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar and to God that beloÌ„geth to God â–ª which later clause â–ª I am assured doth much more take away a supreme regiment in all causes ecclesiasticall than necessalily by force of any wordes binde vs to pay yea any tribute to our Prince 69. b. VVe plainly say that this kinde of supremacie is directly against Gods holy worde 70. a. VVhat can ye conclude of all that ye haue or shall say to win your purpose 74. a. I say that if Saint Augustine were aliue he woulde say vnto you as he saide vnto Gaudentius 74. b. Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor all the residue which ye reherse of this Constantine c. can import this superioritie as we shall there more at large specific In the meane season I say it is a stark most impudeÌ„t lie 75. b As I haue at large in my returne against master Iewels fourth article declared 77. b. VVhat honour haue ye got what honour haue you I saye wonne by this or by the whole thing it selfe 78. a. And shal we now M. Horne your antecedeÌ„t being so naught the consequent ye will hereof inferre nay pardie 79. a b. VVell I will leaue this at your leasure better to bee debated vpon betwixt you and master Foxe 80. a. Ye are a verie poore sielie clearke farre from the knowledge of the late reuerende fathers Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner 80. a. That I may a little roll in your rayling Rhetorike hearken good master Horne I walke not and wander as ye doe here c. I go to worke with you truely plainly and particularly I shewe you by your owne Emperour and by plaine wordes 81. b. Hitherto ye haue not brought any one thing worth a good strawe to the substantiall prouse of your purpose 82. a. I am right well assured ye haue not proued nor neuer shall be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue 82. b. I walke not in confuse and generall wordes as you do 82. b. To all these facings and crakes though many of them be particularly aunswered as occasion requireth these his owne wordes may suffise for aunswere All men knowe that your great vauntes are but wordes of course to saue your poore honestie 1. Pref. pag. 23. Bicause he quarelleth so much with the Bishop as for other things so for his Rhetorike as also Doctour Harding and his fellowes vpbrayde likewise vnto Bishop Iewell his Rhetorike and master Dorman to master Nowell I haue therefore set downe as one of his chiefest common places a briefe note or two by the way to shewe wherein our master Stapletons flourishing Rhetorike doth most consist His obiections of Rhetorike AS for your Rhetorike ye woorke your matters so handsomly and so perswasiuely c. what a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you 1. Pref. pag. 6. 7. His chiefest floures of Rhetorike partly nothing but copia verboruâ—… an heape of needlesse wordes partly nothing but rolling on a letter With which Rhetorike thou shalt 〈◊〉 his whole booke so poudred that it should be superfluous to trouble thée with any exacter collection of theÌ„ being in effect nothing else but â—…rs bahlatiua Only I will giue 〈◊〉 a light taste thereof throughout his whole volume and the rest thou 〈◊〉 continually finde as thou readest his Counterblast His fift common place of flourishing Rhetorike IT is the Castle of your Profession the Key of your Doctrine the principal Fort of all your Religion the piller of your authoritie the fountaine of your iurisdiction the ankerholde of all your proceedings 1. Pref. pag. 1. Your cause is betrayed your doctrine dissolueth your whole Religion goeth to wracke the want of this right shaketh your authoritie stoppeth your iurisdiction and is the vtter ship wracke of all your proceedings 2. Haue I not grounded this worke c. haue I not posted it c. haue I not furnished it c. haue I not fenced it c. haue I not remooued all c. an outward shewe and countenance a gay glorious glistring face a face I say all is but a face and a naked shewe 3. Most miserably and wretchedly pinched pared and dismembred Most shamefully contaminated depraued and deformed 12. A mishapen lumpe of lewde and lose arguments 5. VVith like good Logike ye lay forth 6. The truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed 8. T. Turkish trecherie L. Lauashing language 14. B. Bluster and blow F. Fume and freat R. Raile and raue as L. Lowdlyas lewdly as B. Beastly as boldly c. ye B. Bluster not so boysterously as ye L. Lie most lewdly 15. A H. Happie happe for master Horne that happed c. S. Such slender circumstances to M. Minister him matter of such T. Trifling talke 6. b. A prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate 7. b. You will happly forsake and abandoÌ„ Saint Augustines authoritie with the olde C. Canons and Councels and 〈◊〉 vnder the defence of your B. Brittle Bulwarke 8. b. A pretie legerdemaine played and a leafe put in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the parliament c. what Parliament haue your preachers 9. a. b. O poore and siely helpe O miserable shift c. This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togither heauen and earth 9. a. VVhie good sir make ye such post haste what are you so soone at the ende I see your haste is great VVhat will you leape ouer the hedge ere ye come at it And I might be so bolde I woulde faine demaunde of you the cause of your hastie posting Perhaps there is some eye sore or somewhat that your stomacke cannot beare Grieueth it you to heare Doth it appall you to heare c. Doth it dasell and amase you to heare c. Doe yee take it to the heart Master Horne â–ª Is it a corsey to you Is there yet any other lurking sore priuily pinching your stomack I trow it nipped you at the very heart roote 212. b. 213. a. b. VVhie master Horne can your eares paciently abide all this can your stomacke digest all this master Horne can ye suffer can ye suffer How chaunce we haue not at the least for your comfort one pretie nippe 287. a. A rascall rablement of monstruous hereticall names A rablement of straunge monstrous hereticall names This rascall rablement of huge monstrous names 317. It is so it is so master Horne c. You can not you may not you shall not c. You sawe you sawe master Horne you master Horne 430. Your horrible dissention glistreth so cleare crieth so lowde and blustreth so great that so long as we haue
the people ignorant least they should discerne them And ye haue sayd of your hypocritiall errours of your â—…ayned myracles and legends of lies latebunt quam diu pâ—…rerunt vâ—…lebunt apud â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mendaciâ—… The ignorant people will ostéeme such lying to â—…es And therfore we may well returne your conclusion on your selfe that ye be those false Prophets and lying masters such as Saint Peter spake of bringing in wicked and damnable sects God giue them grace which are deceyued by you so well to knowe you as we that do examine your writings haue good cause to know you And thus your wordes of course fathered as ye call it in a luskie lane of some indiuiduum vagum a certaine Protestant of late dayes and for witnesse hereof aske your fellow if it be not so howe well in euery poynt they appeare that as they say the foxe was the first finder to be your owne tootoo open sayinges and doynges to charge vs withall a Gods name hardily let all the worlde be iudge His obiecting of stragling from the matter fo 4. a. Of false alleaging his Authours wordes fol. 5. b. Of omitting and concealing circumstances fol. 7. a. Of deepe silence to aunswere the pith of the matter fol. 8. a. Of obiecting fleshly pleasures fol. 8. b. Of quarelling that our Bishops be no Bishops fol. 9. a. b. Of passing good maners for misreporâ—…ing n. a. Of obiecting conspiracies and sedition fol. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. Remoue them with a writte of returne to the Papists themselues and then they are fully answered This lo at the least sayth M. St. fol. 37. b. heresie worketh in the Church that it maketh the truth to be more certenly knowne and more firmely and stedfastly afterwarde kept so sayth S. Augustine the matter of the Trinitie was neuer well discussed till the Arrians barked agaynst it c. This is truer M. St. than eyther ye wene or would The experience whereof is dayly to be séene in the Papists defending their errors and impugning the truth in their subtile practises in their tyrannicall inquisitions and cruel torments yea euen in this yours and your fellowes volumes striuing to obscure and deface the truth but all these steps notwithstanding the truth is and shal be more and more set forth the Popish errors â—…sse and lesse begutle vs and the kingdome of Antichrist detected and forsaken Fol. 40. a. M. St. telleth vs that S. Greg. Nazianzen saith Verum est ê™ vnum est mendaciuÌ„ auteÌ„ est multiplex The thing which is true is alwayes one like vnto it selfe whereas the lie the cloked and counterfeyt thing is in it selfe variable and diuerse By the which rule here giuen of so learned and graue a father I am here put to knowledge that the Papists not being content with the onely worde of God alwayes one and like it selfe but ioyning thereto mens variable and diuerse vnwritten verities That the Papistes being not content with the true spirituall worship of one God alwayes one like himselfe not with one mediator Iesus Christ but yéelding spirituall worship to Saints and Saints pictures besides God and making other variable and diuerse mediators to God besides Christ that the Papists being not content with the only merites satisfaction of Christs death always one and like itselfe â–ª but deuising variable and diuerse Masses Diriges Pilgrimages and satisfactions besides being not content with the flat scripture alwayes one and like it selfe that testifieth only faith in christ to be the meanes of appreheÌ„ding our iustification but adding variable diuerse infinit workâ—… of their own to deserue their iustification by being not content with the only title profession of Christianitie alwayes one 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 but sâ—…tting vp variable diuerse feas professioÌ„s religions names besides be but cloked counterleyy liers â–ª as Greg Nazâ—…n hath most truly said And thus ye sée M. St. how you citing falsly this sentence to proue the â—…variable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe on â–ª the thumbes Fol. 40. b. Let the King sayth master Stapleton reode on Gods name not onely that booke but all the Bible beside it is a worthie studie for him but let him beware least this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him c. What wordes are here that we say not also yea his permission of Princes to read and studie the Bible â–ª is our most earnest prayer and exhortation And they whatsoeuer they would seeme nowe to pretende bicause they can no longer keepe it vnder their bushell it is full sore agaynst their heart that Princes should read or studie it Otherwise why suffred they not Princes to giue them selues to so woorthie and commendable a studie heretofore And nowe that they can kéepe it in no longer who it is that turneth this sweete honie of Gods worde into poyson is easie to iudge Whether hée that giueth bread to the hungrie bringing forth the whole loafe of the onely pure wheate and willeth them that are to be fedde therewith to sée to view to féelâ—… the whole and in seasonable time breaketh it to his fellow seruants before their faces that they may fully refresh their hungrie seules or he that beateth his fellowe seruaunts hydeth the loafe from them and if he must néedes giue them some mingleth the pure wheate with his owne branne and that worse is with Darnell and more of that by thrée halues than of the wheate and will néedes haue the receyuer blindfolded nor will suffer him to take it in his owne handes but by gobbet meale thrust it into his mouth nor will let the partie sée what in this sort he crammes him with as though he were worse than the Capon in a coupe and yet for all this will beare him in hande it is the true bread Whether of these twaine be the likelier to giue this poysoned bread no man that hath any witte but will giue a shrewde ayme As for false translations false dangerous and damnable gloses wherewith master St. sayth we haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasant wine most soure vinegar it is so euident on his owne part that the Papistes haue so vsed the Scripture and that so shamefully that it séemeth he is past shame that he dare once mencion it and yet he obiecteth it to vs that admit the expresse scripture without any gloses at all Take heede to your selfe Maister Horne for I say to you that you and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion manie and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie Blot out these wordes Maister Horne and put in Maister Stapleton and then it is truely sayd Although wée not only say it but proue it also And therfore you and your felowes M. Stapleton had nede to take hede thereto fol 42. a. VVe say you are wicked deprauers of religion c. VVe say ye are as great enimies as euer the Church of Christ had
chiefly directed to dissuade hir subiects myndes to whome in hucker mucker ye sende these bookes ouer from the acknowledging of the sayde hiâ—… Maiesties supreme authoritie maye it not truly be sayde men maye iustly gather this as youre chiefe ende Is not euery wriâ—…ers chiefe ende to persuade his reader in his principall matter is not this here youre principall matter to improue the taking vpon hir of this authoritie If ye haue any chiefer ende or more principall purpose that is better than this cléere your self and shew it Uerâ—…ly our chiefest end in writing hereof is to persuade hir subiectes that by your deceiuings stand in any mammering to a godly liking of the sayd title as most dâ—…e and lawfull to hir highnesse estate And if yours be not the contrarie hereto let your doings be according and we shal like it the better But see here M. Stapleton how soone ye folter in your numbers and misse in your tale at the fyrste beginning of all ye haue scored vs vp in your marginall score two vntruthes when ye come to counting them twaine afterward in your answere ye recken vs vp thrée saying of the second in your score This is an vntrue and false surmise of Maister Horne as are the other two here also reckning vp that that ye counted for the first And thus wée knowe not whether we haue euen or odde 2. or 3. Wherby all your reckening is marde and false counted Is this your daunce M. Stap. in beginning to trip the round when one lye tumbles out so proprely in the necke of an other But hoysta God blesse them they fallout faire Howbeit as they say it is a good horse that neuer stumbled thoughe it be an euill signe to stumble yea to fall downe right at the first setting out I make proofe by the continuall practise of the Church in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir The thirde vntruth you neuer proue the like gouernment namely in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes The truthe or vntruthe of this being referred to the triall in the sayde practise will soone pull backe this thirde dauncer from hopping in your rounde And as for your self ye are a false piper M. Stapleton thus soone vnto your liâ—… to pipe a wrong rounde harping on an other issue than was required of the B. to proue Wherin as your greate falshood â—…hal appeare so your selfe do here halfe graunt this to be no vntruth daring not flatly say the Bishop neuer pro ued the like gouernment which the Bishop only here affirmeth but you denie it in a respect namely say you in al ecclesiasticall things and causes â–ª which the Bishop here affirmeth not nor it is his propre issue in question demaunded of Master Feck and yet he proueth euen that also I haue put into englishe the authors myndes and sentences The fourth vntruth for he wrongfully alleageth both the wordes and meanings of his authours He bringeth no instance at al wherby to proue this that he sayth which til he can do it must go for a lie of his owne making wherby he measureth other mens translations by his owne corrupting his authors wordes sentences mindes and all as is alreadie declared This title is so replenished with vntrue reportes The fyfth vntruth in wrongfully charging M Feckenham for the title of his treatise Whether Master FeckeÌ„hams treatise had a true title or no lette others déeme Maister Feckenham made a treatise entituled by the name of An ansvvere to the Queenes Maiesties Commissioners and the same by writing be deliuered to the Bishop of Winchester and afterwarde sent abroade the sayd Treatise entituled by name The declaration of suche scruples c. as Maister Iohn Feckenham by vvryting did deliuer vnto the Lorde Bishop c. when he neuer deliuered any suche entituled treaâ—…ise vnto him Is this then vntruly or wrongfully donâ—… to charge him of the title of his treatise His sixth and seuenth vntruth trifling denials You. c. not without the helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised wrote and purposed to deliuer this booke to the Commissioners The eyght vntruth slaunderous Neither doth the Bishop flatly affirme it but only sayth as may be gathered whervpon M. Stapl. can not iustly gather a flat asseueration one way or other â–ª to conclude his vntruth Neither doth M St. improue it any way thoughe â—…e himselfe and that verie often without any coniecturing of the matter and yet can he gather no iust coniecture therof doth boldly charge the Bishop with the helpe of other Which so often as he doth he shoulde remember that this vntruth returneth on himselfe In al which points ye were so answered that ye had nothing to obiecte but seemed resolued and in a manerfully satisfyed The. 9. vntruth M. Feck was neuer so answered And in his couÌ„terblast he saith had not the B. put in these wordes In a maner otherwise it had passed al goodmaner honestie too so vntruly to make report the contrary being so wel known that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one poynt of religion neither in Courte nor yet in mannour nor else where Ye are a mannerly man I perceyue mayster Stapleton and as full of good manners or honestie it appeareth as an egge is full of oatemeale Belike ye haue bene brought vp neyther at courte nor mannour but at Hogges norton as they saye for otherwise what good manner or honestie is this to chalenge youre better of so heynous vntruth and proue nothyng at all agaynste hym but saye the contrarie is well knowne when your selfe knowe it not at al but speake without the booke For shame M. Stapl. learne better maners to referre it to them that were present at the hearing of both parties and then shal ye hazard your honestie and truth a great deale the lesse and shewe your nourture to be the more Wherevpon I made afterwarde relation of good meaning towardes you to certayn honourable persones of the good hope I had conceyued c. The. 10. vntruth incredible VVhat good meaning coulde he haue to him when he would haue him reuolt from the religion by him receiued and professed at Baptisme to reuolt from the faith of Christes catholike churche c. Why Master Stapleton is this incredible that the Bishop hoping of his conformitie in making relation thereof to the honourable might not haue therin a good meaning yea admitte the truth whiche he professeth were as false as you woulde haue it séeme to bée mighte he not for all that haue a good meaning Saule had a good meaning ye wot when he did full ill And how say ye to your Scholemen that speake so muche good of a good meaning yea euen in ill causes But as the Bishop meant wel to him so the cause was good also and your cause naught how well so euer ye meane in an
ill matter Ye meane well I dare say for ye good man when ye talke of reuolting from the religion by him receyued at baptisme and the faith of Christes catholike churche meaning your popishe religion and churche and manie times ye wishe the Bishop to acknowledge it but he and all godly wise men doo sée howe you are deceyued in your well meaning by euill and false assumptions takyng that for Christs catholik church which is not nor the popish faith is that faith which we professed at baptisme but a degenerate faith Nor Master Feckenham was baptized if he were rightly baptized in the name of the Pope or the Popes religion Which if you doe meane your selfe meane not so well to him as you pretende Now for the vntruth of the Bishops well meaning to M. Feckenham be the cause as it be may this way or that howe dare you so boldely anouch that it is incredible the B. shoulde meane him well Beware M. St. ye presume not to sit in Gods seate the hart of man which for meaning is only knowne to God and the meaner Quiâ—… enim hominum scit quae sunt hominis nisi spirituâ—… hominis qui in eo est For what man knoweth the things that are of man but the sprite of man that is within him A certaine friend of yours standing by and hearing what I had declared then to the honorable in your commendation did shortly after reporte the same vnto you The. 11. vntruth There was no such reporte made Any aâ—…nswere were néedlesse but that the facing of this man is shamelesse that denieth so boldely he knoweth not what The right honorables God be praysed be yet aliue to whom the Bishop reported it the stander by at the same time as those right honorables can tell was a Gentleman named M. White of Southwicke whome since God hath called away which openly to M. Feckenham in the hearing of the Bishop and all other present declared that he hearde the Bishop speake to the honourable in his comendation Al this notwithstanding 〈◊〉 in M. StapletoÌ„ like another suborned Stilpho that neyther was there nor as he confesseth in his Prâ—…face Pag. 24. had any skil of the priuate doingâ—… betwéenâ—… them and yet he steppeth in as boldely as though he had benâ—… the chiefe 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 denieth that there waâ—… any such reporte at all But to vse his owne termes what is impudencie if this be not Doubting that youâ—… confederats should vnderstand of your reâ—…olte 12. which they euer feared hauing experience of your shrinking from them at 13. Westminster in the conference there The. 12. vntruth slaunderous The. 13. vntruth notoriously slaunderous Here in your score are notched vp two seuerall vntruths in your answere bothe these two by contraction are but one vntruth â–ª and thus ye can not kéepe your tale Yea But this saye you incomparably passeth and farre excelleth all your foresayd vntruthes and so belike it maye goe well for two it selfe But wherefore is this so passing an vntruthe The bishop sayd his confederates feared his noueltie hauing experience of his shrinking from them To this you replie and say In what one point of religion did he shrinke from his companie and in the ende ye come in asking further VVhat shrinking in religion call ye this as though the Bishop had charged him with shrinking from them in religion Which if M. Feck had done then would they no longer haue feared it being alreadie done but they were afterward afrayd of his shrinking in religion séeing his shrinking from them in that so péeuishly they stacke to their obstinate refusal wherin your self coÌ„fesse they refused to obey the Queenes highnesse coÌ„mandement And the lesse matter ye wold make it the lesse ought they to haue shewed such disobedience had they ben good subiects as they preteÌ„d or had they in déed stuck to their cause But they shronke froÌ„ their cause which of likelyhood they suspected Howbeit M. Feck seing not so much in it as they he as you say for his parte thought it not good to disobey the Queenes highnesse commandement and so therin shranke from them This Master Staple your self confesse and so or euer ye wist ye clere the Bishop of this incomparable vntruth Ye semed in our conference before had resolued The. 14. vntruth that M. Feck should giue vp his treatise in writing after he was resolued by M Horne And in his counterblast How vnlikely a tale is this that Maister Feckenham should either bee resolued by Maister Horne or beeing resolued shoulde then giue vp his matter in writing for none other cause than M. Horne reporteth I durst make any indifferent man iudge yea a number of M. Hornes owne sect there is no apparance there is no colour of this matter and therfore I wil be so bold as to adde this to his other vntruthâ—… This vntruth springeth of two causes the one the vnlikelyhod of the matter the other M. StapletoÌ„s boldnes for he wil be so bold as to score it vp But I pray you M. Sta. is euery vnlikelyhood an vntruth with you ye are ouer bold that dare so affirme Were ye present there Did ye see the dealing can ye tel the coÌ„trary No â–ª How dare ye then say it â–ª write print it to all the world that it is an vntruth Is this sufâ—… proof to say it is vnlikly to be Ergo it is not to presse this vnlikelyhood the sorer there is no apparance say you there is no color in this matter In déed here ye say truer thaÌ„ ye are aware there is no colour nor apparance â–ª but the very truth it selfe in that the B. sayd neither yet an vnlikely truâ—…h therin Nay say you I dare make any indifferent man iudge yea a number of M. Hornes owne sect that it is not lykely that M. Feck should be resolued or should giue vp his treatise in writing â–ª after he was resolued by M. Horne What man if you remember you but of youre own of your maister D. Hardings inconstancie and other a number euen of youre owne sect ere this ye may find likelyhod inough of M. FeckenhaÌ„s resolution yea euen in himself in K. Henries dayes and therfore bewarâ—… whom ye make iudge in the matter of this vnlikelyhood But setting like or vnlyke apart may a man be so bold as to say that your selfe so boldly charging the B. with an vnlikely vntruth make a manifest vntruthe for the B. said not aâ—… you tel the tale that M. Feck was resolued or that he wrote his treatise after he was resolued but that he seemed resolued these were the bishops words And so he likewise said before that he semed resolued in a maner fâ—…lly satisfied that he semed openly to haue little matter to stand in but that he was resolued that is to say fully persuaded the B. might haue some cause for all his hope to dout knowing that
false Knowledge therfore is not alwayes taken so precisely to be onely of true things but graunting you this precisenesse that knowledge is only taken to be true thingâ—… yet you do yll herein bicause ye take after your ordinarie custome Pro concesso controuersum that to be graunted that is in question whether your or our part be true or false héerin Yea why maye not we saye and that wyth greater reason that you take the truthe for falsehoode and falsehoode for truthe And so you nor any of your syde notwithstanding all youre great bragges and thys your clearkly booke haue anye true knowledge VVell maye ye saye as ye doo moste falsly and to youre poore wretched soule as well in this as in other poyntes moste dangerously beleue the contrarie but know it yee can not vnlesse it were true for knowledge is only of true things and as the Philosopher sayth Scire est per causas cognoscere Do ye know whose words al these be and yet ye sée how they serue our turne far better than yours M. Sta. bycause our cause resteth on the truth which is the infallible worde of God Deus est verax God is true yours is grounded on the doctrines of men Omnis auteÌ„ homo mendax but euery man is a lier And therfore is it lesse maruel sith ignorance and falsehood knowledge truth are al one that ye account somuch of ignorance make it to be the mother of deuotion that ye kepe down the people in ignoraÌ„ce which conspireth with falshood cannot abide knowledge that is linked with truth as ye haue loÌ„g kept the truth vnder a bushel so yet you caÌ„not abide that it shuld come to the knowlege of the people perceiuing the sith knowledge hath begon to spring in the world our cause withal as the truth hath florished yours hath drouped as that falshod wherfore your freÌ„â—… haue cried out vpoÌ„ al good letters séeing that their cause hathe had no greater enimie than knowledge is no greater maynteyner than ignoraunce Qui male agit odit lucem nec venit ad lucem ne opera eius arguantur He that doth euill sayth Christ hateth the lighte nor commeth to the light lest his workes should be reproued Next vnto this you note a rabblement of vntruthes but ye neither number them in youre Calendar but onely marke them with a starre in the forbead nor in youre replie say any more vnto them than this I will not nor tyme will serue to discusse them but why woulde youre will and your time serue you to chalenge them for vntruths and not serue you to discharge your chalenge and your owne truth in prouing them so to be but go to I see there is no remedie wée must tarie your leysure vntil that youre will come on you and that your tyme will serue you Many horrible erroures and superstitions of Monkerie The. 29. vntruth reprochefull and slaunderous This was so vntrue that all the world rang of it and the Papists themselues cried out theron Although ye were in the Tower in king Edwardes tyme that was not for any doubte of the supremacie for that ye still agnised but for other poynts of religion touching the ministration of the sacraments The. 30. vntruth This was not the cause of his imprisonment as shall appeare Here in his beadroll thoughe ye sée he denyeth it â—…latly yet in his counterblast where he toucheth the same he dare not be so impudent But saith as I vnderstande so that if hée be chalenged of rash dealing to affirme that for an vntruth that he stammereth in no will he saye looke my beadroll and ye shall fynde that I denyed it flatly and boldly withoute any stammering at the matter If againe this bolde flatnesse be proued a â—…atte lie â—…ushe will he saiâ—… I referred it in saying it shoulde appeare to my counterblast where I declare no further than I vnderstode by my freendes let it light on them if it be a lie thus cunningly Maister Stapleton hath handled the matter But a manifeste lye it is that he maketh howsoeuer he auonch or mollifie the same For this was a special cause of his imprisonment as those can tell that be yet liuing who were sente to him and to others to persuade them therein And by whome soeuer hée vnderstoode it it is but M. Stapletons and his misseinformers lye And where he would excuse the matter bicause he was examined in the matter of Iustification doth it follow therfore he was not in also for the matter of the sacrament being principally then in controuersie The Bishop only said be was in for other pointes of religion and namely touching the Sacrament but sée howe pretily M. Stapl. would bleare the readers eyes with quarelling at this half point of the sentence least the reader shoulde marke wherin the Bishop principally charged M. Feckenham that hee had confessed this article of supremacie all King Edwardes dayes and so knewe and acknowledged it then contrarie to his pretence of ignorance nowe therin And this digresseth not from the matter in hand But from this M. Stapleton slippeth in great silence and sayeth not a word therto but dalieth about other matters to finde the readers play And so by his owne rule confesseth by not denying the verye poynt in hande that M. Feckenham all king Edwards time though he were in the Tower yet euer hee agnized this title then that he refuseth nowe Wherevnto also you agreed and promised to professe and preache the same in open auditorie wheresoeuer you should be appoynted Wherevpon a right worshipfull Gentleman procured your deliuerance The. 31. vntruth slanderous He was not deliuered vpon any promise of recantation but to bee disputed withall Here M. Stapl. maketh muche adoe to conuince the Bishop of an vntruth and to make it seeme more probable he citeth diuers honourable and worshipfull to witnesse and al nothing to the purpose in hand excusing M. Feckenham of that wherwith no bodie charged him and answering nothyng but by silence consessing that that he was charged withal The bishop made no mention of any conference or disputation had with M. Feckenham after his departure oute of the tower but of that conference whiche was with him maister Moreman and maister Crispine whyle they were in the Tower. When at their owne suite to the councell they desired to haue some learned men with whom to conferre especially about the sacrifice of the Masse the ministration vnder bothe kyndes and the ministration vpon a table and not an altare And at this their sute Master Storie the Bishop then of Chichester and Maister Roberte Horne then parson of All Hallows in Breadsteat now bishop of Winchester were appointed by the honourable counsel to deals with them which they did by the space of a moneth at sundry tymes till that Master Feckenham did â–ª consent with them in all these thrée poyntes and so by maister Hobbies
fourth time dixit Dominus and Samuelem the Lorde sayde or as ye call it pronounced vnto Samuell c. confirming all that he had pronounced before by the former Prophet As for Samuell béeing straightly charged by Hely the hye Priest not by the way of prophecie pronounced those words of the Lords to him or to any other but onely shewed him al that God had sayde Indicauit ei vniuersos sermones non abscondit ab eo And Samuell tolde him euery whit of the â—…ayings and hidde it not from him And therefore where ye say he onely executed the sentence pronounced before by Samuell Gods minister as though God had prophecied it by the mouth of Samuell as he did in the chapter before by an other and as ye say in your Counterblast published before by Samuell the Leuite the texte mentioning neither the pronouncing nor publishing of this sentence by Samuell at all but onely the fore sayde maner of priuate telling to Hely what he heard God pronounce it is but an vntruthe in your selfe to tell your tale so to your aduauntage that it might séeme that Salomon was but the executour of some solemne sentence published and pronounced before by Samuell commaunding or mouing king Salomon to obey that senteÌ„ce and so to depose Abiathar And héere appeares also your other vntruthe that Salomon shoulde doe it to this ende and intent to fulfill this prophecie Which in déede he fulfilled in the dooing but it was not fulfilled by him alone king Saule had fulfilled a greate parte of it before in causing to be killed wickedly the whole familie of Hely excepte onely this Abiathar that escaped by flighte Whiche cruell facte of Saule proceeding onely of méere malice agaynst Dauid and furder agaynst them as Dauids abettours fautours was the onely cause of this tyrannie and not to fulfil Gods prophecie Neither coulde he pretende it and yet he fulfilled the same when he fulfilled his wicked luste But Salomon that deposed Abiathar the onely remaynder of Helies stocke and his sonnes after him had good and righte cause to depriue him and all his posteritie of thys dignitie bicause he was as your selfe confesse a traytour to him For which cause Salomon deposed him and layde this cause to his charge onely not that he must execute Gods sentence of punishing his fathers offence and yet in doing the one he perfourmed the other also Bothe of these Princes were executours of Gods sentence that wrought by his secrete Iustice what soeuer he purposed yea as well by the euill deede of Saule as by the righteous déede of Salomon And things foretolde in the scripture came not to passe bicause they were foretold but bicause they should come to passe therfore they were foretold God did foretell what he would do to that house yet he named not by whom so that none could pretend to do it bicause God had foretold it but when God had done it by suche instruments as he purposed good or bad then the writers of the scripture by the instruction of the holy ghost bicause of the certenty of Gods prophecie doe say it was done to fulfill suche or suche a thing So when Herod had killed the innocents sayth S. Mathew tunc adimpletuÌ„ est theÌ„ was fulfilled that which was spoken by the Prophet Ieremie of which kinde of spéeche as well in factes of the godly as the vngodly we haue many ensamples Though therefore the wordes of the Scripture be Eiccit ergo Salomon Abiathar vt non esset sacerdos domini vt impleretur seâ—…mo Domini quem locutus est super domum Heli in Silo And so Salomon cast out Abiathar from being the priest of the Lorde that the Lordes wordes might be fulfilled which he spake vpon the house of Hely in Silo yet doe not these wordes import that Salomon did it of this purpose to fulfill that prophecie as you woulde make the reader to vnderstande by youre guylefull translation saying And so Salomon put out Abiathar c. to fulfil the words of the Lord as though the cause why he did it was that when the cause was Abiathars treason and therfore he tolde him before he was â—…ilius mortis the childe of death id est sayth Lyra morte dignus pro conspiratione coÌ„trame â—…rdinationem Dei patris mei that is to say Thou art worthie to suffer death for thy conspirâ—…cie against me and the ordinance of God and of my father Here is the verie cause why Salomon deposed him although also he fulfilled therein Gods secret iustice whiche the holie writer considering wrote vt adimpleretur that the Lordes woordes might be fulfilled c. And thus whyle yée would charge the Bishop with one lye euen your self discharge him and you committe a couple for failing to menâ—… the matter withall Neyther the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued in any thing pertayning to their office from that the king commaunded them The 43. vntruhe those woordes are not in the Scripture alleaged These wordes make a heynous quarell at which wordes also in his Counterblast he stormeth saying He hath swarued lewdly from the text added wordes more than is exprest and that with suche homely shiftes an yll cause must be furthered And when all is done it is but a little parenthesis placed in the middle of the text by the way of explication tâ—… declare wherein the king commâ—…ded them and they obeyed in their offices nexte before set out howe the king ordeyned according to the disposition of Dauid his father the offices of the Priests in their ministeries and the Leuites in their orders to prayse God and minister before the Priests according to the custome of euery day and the porters in their diuisions porte by porte for so had Dauid a man of God commaunded and neither the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued from any thing that the king commaunded Thus lyeth the texte worde for worde Wherein the Bishop placing this parenthesis â–ª what did he that any most exacte interpreter might not do M Stap. héere escrieth it for so horrible a cryme yea and an vntruthe of his bedroll withall wheraâ—… first there is no vntruthe at all in the parenthesis and himselfe in the same chapter confesseth for Princes a great deale more that they may not onely commaunde the Priests to do those things that appertayne to their office but cause them to do them which is a manyfest proofe of the Princes supreme authoritie 〈◊〉 them so that vntruthe in this parenthesis was there none Nor any other faulte at all sauing that M. Stapleton was frowardly disposed to picke a quarell at the forme and print of the letter not at the matter as though those wordes were pretended to be the wordes of the texte wherein he himselfe though there were some negligence in the printing dothe yet excuse the Bishop of this faulte of any suche addition of wordes For twice in his Counterblast mentioning those
wordes he circumscriâ—…eth them with a parenthesis and seuereth it in the poynting as the bishop did from the text which is argument inough to any but to contentious quarellers who will euer busie themselues to séeke as they say a knot in a rushe that it was not put in as the expresse words of the text but as the opening of the sentence To returne therefore his owne wordes to him selfe with suche homely shiftes an ill cause must be furthered and with suche patit quarels a good cause must be bayted at and chalenged for lewde swaruing and homely shiftes And yet his manifest swaruing from text letter sense and all without either difference of letter or of poynting must be neither lewde nor homely shifte at all but good and Cathelike translating with him Iosaphat vsed his Princely authoritie in the reformation of religion The. 44. vntruthe The scripture termeth not any suche princely authoritie Here M. Stapleton standeth altogither on the terme of the Scripture â–ª would to God alwayes the Papistes would thus not in termes so muche as in the truthe of matter be leueled by the scripture But here he dothe it euen as the deuill obiected scripture vnto Christ not to shewe any regarde onely aboue all other to the authoritie of the scripture but to picke a quarell with the Bishop althoughe vntruthe he can finde â—…one The Bishop aâ—…ouched not that this very terme is here in the scripture nor he stoode vpon termes and therefore though the scripture termeth it not yet hath the Bishop committed no vntruthe He onely sayd that losaphat hath â–ª no small commendation in the scriptures for that he vsed his Princely authoritie in the reformation of religion If you can improue the sentence and effect of this then hardly chalenge the Bishop for an vntruthe But this can ye not doe and therefore ye flée to termes and let the matter alone whiche is the principall and is manyfest in the Scripture that he vsed his princely authoritie in those thinges that he dyd yea and your selfe confesse that he vsed care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters that he reformed religion that he commaunded and appoynted the ecclesiasticall persons the high Priest and all other so well as temporall in their ecclesiasticall functions This your selfe haue graunted and confessed bothe in sentence and in termes also and the texte is sâ—… playne ye coulde not denie it But did he direct refourme commaunde and appoynt â–ª and all without authoritie so to doe and what authoritie had hé besides his princely authoritie Ergo euen by your owne confession he refourmed religion by his princely authoritie â–ª as the Bishop sayde And therefore euen your selfe that accuse him acquite him also of this vntruthe He did commaunde and prescribe vnto the thiefe Priests c. The. 45. vntruth There appeareth not in the scripture any suche prescription made vntò the chiefe Priestes That it appeareth in the scripture â–ª it is most euident and your selfe haue confessed it in your Counterblast cap. 13. fol. 50. to the which place where it is aunswered I remitte the Reader At the commandement of the king concerning things of the Lorde The 46. vntruth Those words coÌ„cerning things of the lord are no words of the text but falsly added to holy scripture Ye are very hastie in nicking on your score M. Sta. and so hastie that ye haue no leasure or will take none to examine your text The olde translation hath in deede iuxta maÌ„datuÌ„ regis imperiuÌ„ domini according to the coÌ„mandement of the king and the coÌ„mandemeÌ„t of the Lord. But the Hebrue text hath as those that are skilful in that tongue can tell â—…edibrei â–ª Ieâ—…oua which â—…atablus noteth to signifie In vel de rebus Domini In or concerning the things of the Lord euen as the B. saide so that he is clerely acquited by suche learned interpreters as your skill M. Stapleton â–ª will not easily confute And when ye haue coÌ„futed them then score vp this for an vntruth Although eueÌ„ then ye could not wel charge the B. therwith but the Hebrue text it selfe and Uatablus that so expoundeth it And yet you note it so bitterly for falsly added to holy scripture not marking the common practise of your owne side ordinarily to adde and to subtracte what ye please from the holy scriptures and when ye please make them not ouer holy neither howesoeuer here to aggraâ—…ate a quarell agaynst the Bishop ye thought good to terme them holy scriptures But nowe to admit that those were not the wordes of the scripture but onely the exposition of the wordes yea and that there was a negligence in the printing or copying out thereof whereby the words were printed in seuerall letters like the texte were this M. Stapl. so heynons a faulte where in effeâ—… the matter is moste true and all one with the text Did not the king commaunde them to sanctifie the Lordes house Did they not obey and come when they had so done and make an accounte to the king of all that they had done saying to him VVe haue sanctified all the house of the Lorde and the shewbread table with all the vessels thereof and all the furniture of the temple c. and see they are before the altar of the Lorde Nowe that all these things were things of the Lorde or that they obeyed the kings commaundement and made relation of al their doings to the king concerning these things of the Lorde This M. Stapleton medleth not withall nor dare denie it which is the matter in question and fully proueth the Bishops assertion agaynst M. Feckenham that they obeyed the kings commaundement concerning things of the Lorde So that in the matter of the Bishops saying there is no vntruthe â–ª as euen M. Stapleton him selfe can not denie the scripture is so playne And beeing true it argueth most expressely the vntruthe to remayne in M. Feckenham and M. Stapleton with their coÌ„federates that denie the Clergies obedience to their Princes and the Princes authoritie of commaunding them concerning things of the Lorde which the scripture heere alloweth Nowe what dothe M. Stapleton to saue his poore honestie as hâ—… termeth it but casting a cloude before the readers eyes lest he shoulde consider this he quarelleth after his maner at the printe and not so content crieth out of wordes falsly added to holy scripture where if the wordes had béene misprinted onely in a wrong fourme of letter yeâ—… the sense is all one the matter is moste true and the wordes them selues of the learned Hebritians are euen so expounded so farre are they from all false addition to holy scripture as M. Stapleton most falsly dothe exclayme According as Dauid had disposed the order by the counsell of the Prophetes The. 47. vntruthe Holy Scripture falsified and maymed as it shall appeare Bicause he appealeth in this vntruth to his Counterblast where he sayth it shall appeare in
Apostles Peter and Paule doe playnely declare The. 57. vntruthe The Apostles neuer declared any such matter So saye you in déede â—… Stapleton but the Bishops proofes out of Chrisostome and sainct Augustine do playnly declare they did The. 58. vntruth Of misunderstanding sainct Augustine bicause besides this bederoll he also chargeth the Bishop therewith at large in the Counterblast it is answered seuerally in the answere of the. 18. chapter Not meaning only the transgressors of the seconde table in teÌ„porall matters but also agaynst the offendours of the first table in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes or matters The. 59. vntruthe Sainct Augustine meaneth not to teach suche gouernement of Princes in ecclesiasticall matters as you teache but onely to punishe Heretikes and by the same to mayntayne the Catholike fayth decreed by the Clergie not by the ciuill Magistrate Belike ye can tell better what sainct Augustine meant than be could him selfe But S. Augustine is playne he néedeth no suche interpreter Remember your owne note maledicta glossa quae corrumpit textum Cursed be that glose that corrupteth the text S. Aug. interpreting the mynd of the Apostle to be that the authoritie power of Princes hath to deale in ecclesiastical causes so wel as in teÌ„poral The. 60. vntruth Saint Augustine neuer wrote so Ye shoulde haue tolde out the sentence of S. Augustine that the B. citeth which fully proueth it and then haue improued it as an vntruth if ye coulde whiche although ye do not yet in the margine of that sentence ye crye out lustily and say where is there in all this master Horne that the Princes haue to deale in ecclesiastical causes so well as in temporall For sooth master Stapleton euen here at your hand in this present sentence wherein S. Augustine proueth and your selfe also graunt so muche that the Princes authoritie punishethe so well abuses in eccl. causes and faultes againste religion as it doth ciuill or temporall causes but it punisheth all external faultes and abuses in al ciuil and temporal causes that by his supreme authoritie therein not as an others executioner Ergo it punisheth al external abuses and faults in all ecclesiasticall causes and religion and that by his supreme authoritie therein and not as the clergies executioner Eusebius c. vnderstanding the ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate to be about Gods religion and eccle causes so well as temporall The. 61. vntruth Eusebius neuer vnderstoode any such ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate In what things Eusebius vnderstoode the ciuil Magistrats ministerie to consist the B. set downe Eusebius his owne wordes to proue that he vnderstood it so you say he neuer vnderstoode it so but ye set downe neuer a worde neyther here nor in your Counterblaste to proue the contrarie which tyll ye shall be able to do the Byshoppes vnderstanding of Eusebius by his owne wordes is no vntruthe Eusebius saythe that in preaching by hys decrees true godlynesse in setting foorthe the religion of the moste holy lawe and the most blessed faythe the Princes ministerie consisteth in these things so wel as any other or before al other as his best ministerie But these things are not ciuill matters but spirituall and ecclesiasticall Ergo his ministerie by Eusebius vnderstanding consisteth so well in ecclesiasticall or spirituall matters as ciuill or temporall This moste Christian Emperoure did rightly consider as he hadde bene truely taughte of the moste Christian Byshoppes of that tyme that as the Princes haue in charge the mynisterie and gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall The. 62. vntruth impudent and shamelesse concluded but no whit proued And in his Counterblast I say it is a starke and most impudent lye that ye say without any profe Constantine was taught of the Byshoppes that Princes haue the gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall ye conclude after your manner facingly and desperately vvithout any proufe or halfe proufe in the worlde Here are wonderfull boysterous wordes Master Stapleton but greate boast and small roaste as they say For all this hyghe chalenge standeth on I saye and so in déede it appéereth to be your saying but hadde it not béene your saying Master Stapleton I woulde haue thought it hadde béene some cotqueanes cryaleyson and I woulde haue answered a wispe a wispe for setting aside your foule language what vntruthe is here concluded or what concluded that is not proued The Prince hath the setting foorthe of true religion of Gods moste holy lawe and the moste blessed faythe but these thinges are not ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall the Prince hath to puâ—…te awaye and ouerthrowe all euilles that presse the vvoorlde but none presse the worlde more daungerously than superstition Idolatrie erroures heresies scismes sectes and false religion all whiche are no ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall matters The Prince dothe these thinges not as an executioner of an others ministerie but all the dooing hereof is the ministery properly beloÌ„ging to his owne office yea it is his best ministerie Ergo he dothe all these thinges with as muche or more full and proper authoritie of his office â–ª as he dothe any other ciuill thing But his ministerie in ciuill things is by his supreme authoritie vnder God therin whose minister S. Paule calleth him This is the Bishops conclusion moste playne and true all your blackemouthed Rhethorike to the contrarie notwithstanding For this cause also Nicephorus c. compareth Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure to Constantine For this cause the. 63. vntruthe as shall appeare There is no doubt some great cause that moued you M. Stapleton to put this in your bederoll of vntruthes that the Bishop sayd for this cause And if you were asked for what cause ye doe so it séemeth it would be harde for you to render any and therefore ye take a wise and a short way to tell vs it shall appeare But here ye shewe none nor any at all here appeareth And where it shoulde appeare there appeareth none also except this be sufficient reason onely to denie it and say it is no cause at all For these wordes onely appeare there VVhere ye say for this cause also c. this is no cause at all but is vntrue as of the other Emperour Constantine and muche more vntrue as ye shall good reader straight way vnderstande What cause I pray you is here alleaged and yet this is all that ye say vnto it sauing that as ye sayde before it shoulde appeare referring vs there hither here ye saye as the reader shall straightway vnderstande it And yet neyther straight way nor crooked way ye speake one worde more of the matter but goe about the bushe medling with other matters and not with the truthe or vntruthe hereof any more And so it appeareth nusquam and the reader shall vnderstande it nunquam Neyther is it any maruell if ye can not lette the reader to
and with diffinct letter which he doth not here but Paraphrastically expoundeth the texte Wherein if he doe wreste the meaning of saint Paule ye shoulde hardly note that for an vntruthe â–ª S. Paule there nameth not religion that is true but that this worde godlynesse which saint Paule nameth comprehendeth not religion as the Byshop saythe that is your owne vntruthe But this matter is debated more at large in the answere to your Counterblast chap. 18. diuis â–ª 22. where is shewed bothe by the Fathers and by your owne chiefe writers that sainte Paule by this word godlynesse meant true religion Here ye set another blasing starre vpon these words that the Byshop sayth This woulde be noted with good aduisement that Sainte Paule himselfe sheweth playnely prosperitie amongste Gods people and true religion to be the benefites and fruites in generall that by Gods ordinance springeth from the rule and gouernement of Kings and Magistrats vnto the weale of the people This would be noted say you howe ye racke saint Paule he nameth not religion at all he dothe not attribute religion to the rule and gouernment of the ciuill Magistrat but peace and tranquillitie only in godlynesse Ye durst not note this for an vntruth M. Stapleton but for a racking or wresting althoughe this is but your peeuish difference If he racke saint Paules meaning he telleth an vntruth of saint Paule although this dothe cleare the B. of racking also that ye durste not playnely note and score it vp for an vntruth yet as the B. saying is most true so it nothing swarueth from the meaning of sainte Paule For aâ—… the B. proueth by Chrysostome that by this worde godlynesse is meant religion and the inwarde peace of the mynde and conscience and not only the outward peace of the body So Saint Paule maketh these to bee the benefites fruites and endes that by Gods ordinaunce wee receyue from the rule and gouernement of kings and magistrates in whiche saying S. Paule is not racked but it is you M. Stapleton that racke Saint Paule â–ª for he sayth not tranquillitie and peace only in godlinesse yâ—… may put your only in your pursse Saint Paule sayth in godlinesse and purenesse The whiche knot and fastening togither of religion and prosperitie incoÌ„mon weales the most Christian and godly Emperours Theodosius Ualentinianus did wisely foresee The. 68. vntruthe They sawe no suche confounding of the two functions spirituall and temporall as you imagine This vntruth is directed against the Byshops imagination ye go verie neare the B. M. Stapleton that where hée sayth no suche wordes as you chalenge ye will créepe into his heart and fetche iâ—… from thence ye haue a goodeye sighte that can see what the B. imagineth But wisdome wil think this to bée a fonde toy of your own idle imagination for the Byshops words import no such confusion as ye talke of hée telleth howe godlynesse and prosperiâ—…e are lincked togither in common weales so that the one cannot be well without the other that the Prince is the knitting togither of both these and this he saythe the Emperours sawe and that they sawâ—… it he bringeth good proufe theire own manifest words set downe at large eyther proue this an vntruth M. Sta. or else the B. hath made nene it is but your vntrue sclaunder fonde imagination I haue proued c. That such like gouernment in Churche causes as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir dothe of duetie belong vnto ciuill magistrates The. 69. vntruth Such like gouernement you haue not nor euer shall be able to proue The B. saith that in this first booke he hath hitherto proued it by the scriptures the Doctours and some Emperoures This you denie that he hath done and set him a long day to proue it Nowe the truth or vntruth of this the reader must hang in suspence til be haue read the prâ—…s ouer what they bee and then in the name of God lette himiudge whether the vntruthe lyghte on the Byshoppe or on Master Stapleton In the meane season â—…ytherto the Reader maye haue a taste what shame is in this impudent mannes â—…ace what truthe in his cause and what folly in hâ—…s heade thus to the wide worlde to score and sette out suche thinges for vntruthes as beeing neuer so little rypped vp are moste apparante truthes and to make suche a tryumphante gambolde and pyping vp of a round as hee doth thereon But leâ—…te hym daunce his â—…yll and nicke vp still on the score in the ende hée will runne so farre in the lashe that no man will credite a worde of his mouthe MeÌ„daci non crâ—…ditur ne iurato quidem A lyer is not beleeued no thoughe he svveare ⧠To Master Stapletons first Preface OR euer Master Stap â–ª enter into his counterblast he prefixeth two Prefaces the first to the B. the second to the Reader The first bicause it is only a packet trussed vp of all such accusations as he layeth to the Bishops charge through out his whole counterblast and so is to be aunswered in their proper places I minde not therefore to follow Master Stapletons vaine that saith Decies repeâ—…ta placebunt to spende the time and trouble the Reader more than néedes in answering to them here that are to be answered in their places seuerally and are already many of them noted before in his Common places The effect and conclusion of this preface in the ende is this That the Bishop must néedes make a full reioynder A full reioynder I say saith he and perfect to all and euery parte of this reply and put in Master Stapletonâ—… whole answere not omitting any one line or sentence either of the text or of the margine or els the truth is not on the Bishops side or els he waÌ„teth learnyng or els he buildeth on no good fundation nor the cause he groundeth on is sure or els all men vvill laugh him to scorne for his faire piece of vvorke so shamefully broken of or els M. Feckenhams scruples are most learned and inuincible reasons or els the othe can not be takeÌ„ with out manifest periurie or els Master Horne must retract his most haighnouse heresies or els which I should haue set before all that the B. hath saide is but vvoordes of course to saue his poore honestie and but waltham talke or els as he obiecteth foolishnesse to the B. so M. Stapleton may proue as wise as walthams calfe and thus as he saith to the B. for this time I take my leaue of you Vale resipisce so may I for this your first Preface take my leaue of you Master Stapleton Uale sape ⧠To Master Stapletons seconde Preface THe seconde Preface is directed to the Reader and is coÌ„triued in thrée partes The first sheweth the reasons why he tooke vppon him to answere the Bishop The second how by what order he procéedeth in his answere The thirde is an earnest admonition
replie vvill declare Hovv vvell so euer he hath played his partes full ilfauoredly you begin to plaie yours M. Stap. thus to wrangle about the partes of opponent and answerer The B. playeth not the opponent but you playe the Marchant The B. not in playe but in truth good earnest as M. Feckenham pretendeth to 〈◊〉 requireth to be satisfied answereth to his requestes by the foresayde proues that here ye confesse he bringeth forth The partie opponent as in the other scruples still is M. Feckenham But be he opponent or defendaÌ„t as either of theÌ„ in respects may be either if he bring those proues that ye graunt he doth ye haue litle occasioÌ„ to make a playe scoffe at the matter Neither doth this blemish the truth froÌ„ whom he had it wher with ye would séeme as it were with an awke blowe to foyle the B. learning that he founde out these prooues not all by his owne studie but by the helpe of his friends Which as you M. Stapleton for your owne parte were faine to confesse right now so is there no cause ye should measure the Bishops knowledge by your owne defecte But herein ye do but as the residue do this is the fashioÌ„ of all your coÌ„péeres Where truth faileth you â–ª at the least to winne a credite of learning to your selues like prowde Pharisies ye dispise al other besides your selues To which purpose as M. Stapl. would staine the Bishops godly and learned labour herein at the least that all might not séeme to be his owne but gathered by others to his hands so in the telling of his owne well ordered péece of worke he setteth out euery point to the vttermost to coÌ„mende the better vnto vs his great learning industrie and perspicuitie He telleth vs solemnly how to the first parte he replieth in three bookes how he hath deuided eche booke into seuerall chapters what he hath noted at the toppe of eche page But he telleth not what common places he hath set out in eche line He telleth how he hath exceedingly lightned the matter and what recapitulations he hath made thereof To the second parte he telleth vs it shall appeare but when he telleth vs not both what strong and inuincible arguments M. Feknam right learnedly proposed as most iuste causes of his said refusall And also vvhat â—…ely shiftes and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maynteine that obstinately vvhich he once conceaued erroneously And thus forsoothe nothing to the prayse and setting forth of him selfe M. Feckenham nor to the blemishing of his aduersarie hath M. Stapleton deuided the content of the Bishops answere and his counterblast thereto Now thinking with this preiudice of both their labours he hath sufficiently affectionate the Reader to his partie thirdly he entreth into a generall fore warning of him the effect whereof is to forsake this religion which he beginneth with this earnest adiuring of him Novv good Reader saith Master Stapleton as thou tendrest thine owne saluation â–ª and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of heauen so consider and vveigh vvith thy selfe the importaunce of this matter in hande What hope of saluation M. St. can the Popish doctrine bréede that alwayes doubteth as much of damnation as it hopeth of saluation haÌ„geth wauering betwene dispayre hope admitting no certentie of faith or trust to grouÌ„de vpoÌ„ The attenâ—…ion that ye desire in the Reader we as earnestly desire the same also neither that he come to reade attentiuely with any preiudicate opinion on either parte as you would haue his minde foresâ—…alled on your side but euen with indifferencie as he shall finde the matter in hande to leade him so to weigh and consider the importance thereof euen as he tendreth and verely hopeth his ovvne saluation And as the Reader shall do this for his parte so let vs sée how you do for yours and of what great importance your arguments are to sturre vp this earnest attention in the Reader The first argument that ye make is this First vvithout authoritie is no religion Then if this Religion vvhereby thou hopest to be saued haue no authoritie to grounde it selfe vppon vvhat hope of saluation remayning in this religion canst thou receyue Now as though the Maior were in controuersie and the pointe we sticke vpon he first solemnely strengthneth it with the authoritie of S. Augustine For no true religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receaued vvithout some vvaightie force of authoritie As for the Minor which determineth nothing but hanging on a conditionall pinne maketh no directe conclusion too or fro We graunt him that iâ—… our religion haue no authoritie no hope of saluation can be grounded thereon But then he replieth If it haue any authoritie it hath the authoritie of the Prince by vvhose supreme gouerment it is enacted erected and forced vpon thee other authoritie hath it none Ergo For want of sufficient good authoritie it is no true Religion Ye desired right now M. St. euen as the Reader tendreth his ovvne saluation to consider and vveighe vvith him self the importance of this matter And is this all the importance of your first argument against our Religion that the Reader should weigh coÌ„sider so déepely What is here alleaged besides a bolde and manifest slaunder forced vpon the Reader by the authoritie onely of your bare woorde Which the more the Reader shall consider and especially thus your beginning for an handsell of good lucke to the residue he shall the better perceaue the falshood and impudencie of your whole cause dealing For to set one If against another If the reader better coÌ„sidering weighing with himself shal finde this religioÌ„ not to be of so late enacting erecting forcing but enacted erected and forced of God in his holy woorde shall not this coÌ„sideration detect you to be a malicious slauÌ„derer if the reader with al shall vveigh the peise of your argument that the Prince hath a supreme gouernment in all Ecclesiasticall causes Ergo the Religion that the Prince sets forth hath noâ—…e other authoritie but of him shal be not finde it like the father of it as light as a thing of nought But exhorting the Reader to vveigh and consider the matter not considering nor vveighing what ye say your selfe ye blunder on in your Ifs and say If then that supreme gouernment that hauing none other authoritie enacteth erecteth and forceth a Religion vpon thée be not due to the laie Prince but to the spirituall Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the vvhole spiritualtie thou â—…eest thy ReligioÌ„ is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede Here whether he be ashamed to set it downe or thinketh it so cléere it néedeth not recital but is inferred of the Maior he leaueth out the Minor of his argumeÌ„t But that supreme gouernment is due to one chiefe spirituall magistrate only and to
all their actions of their offices or vocations Ye conclude not a like M. Stapl. but subtilly and falsely ye alter the state of the conclusion if ye made your argument aright ye should make it thus as the Prince intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his temporall subiects offices or vocations so he intermedleth not in the seuerall actions of his Ecclesiasticall subiectes offices or vocations This is the right illation of the sâ—…militude and thus it maketh nothing against vs Which you espying in the place of intermedling thrust in gouerning concluding â—…alsely bicause he is no intermedler in the one that therefore he is no gouernour of the other But the â—…urder ye wade in this similitude the more ye labour against the streame For as although the Prince intermedle not with the Fathers the Masters the Schoolemasters the Pilotes seuerall actions in their offices or vocations yet he ought to ouersée that euery one of these and all other his subiects do their owne proper actions belonging to their vocations and offices dutifully yea not onely to make lawes for them all as subiectes but also for their seuerall estates and degrées besides not for him selfe to exercise but for them to worke in their vocations so the Prince beyng likewise gouernour of Ecclesiasticall persons so well as of any other aforesaide although he intermedle not with the seuerall actions of their vocations yet ought he to ouersée them that euery Ecclesiasticall estate do their proper actions dutifully and also to make Lawes and Orders not for him selfe but for them in their degrées and vocations to exercise and obserue the same And thus your similitude euery way maketh quite against you M. Stapl. how be it you will proue it better ye say For the better vnderstanding whereof it is to be knowne that before the comming of Christe Kings were there many but Christian Kings none Many coÌ„mon wealths were there but no Christian common welth nor yet godly coÌ„mon welth properly to speake sauing among the Iewes but cluill and politike The ende and finall respect of the which ciuill common wealth was and is vnder the regiment of some one or moe persons to whome the multitude committed them selfe to be ordered and ruled by to preserue themselues from all inwarde and outwarde iniuries oppressions and enemies and furder to prouide not onely for their safetie and quietnes but for their wealth and abundance and prosperous maintenance also To this ende tendeth and reacheth and no furder the ciuill gouernment And to the preseruation tuition and furderance of this ende chiefly serueth the Prince as the principall and most honorable person of the whole estate whiche thing is common as well to the Heathenishe as to the Christian gouernment Is this all that ye will aforde christian Princes M. Stap. what a heathenish doctrine is this to make Christen princes and Heathen princes gouernment all one What if Christen princes as they haue right good cause beginne to startle at this that ye make their estate no better before God than is the great Turkes And what if one should answere that ye not onely sclaundered reprochfully all the estates of Christendome nowe liuing or that shal be or haue bene since Christes comming but also wickedly deface all the godly Kings and rulers before Christes comming Melchisedeck Dauid Salomon c. beléeuing in Christ to come as Christen Princes now beare the title of Christ already come And yet dare you saie that before the comming of Christ Kinges were there many but Christian kinges none Doâ—… ye dallie on the tytle and name of Christian or meane ye the tytle and effecte of christianitie if ye meane so as ye must néedes meane if ye meane any thing materiall to the purpose ye are very iniurious not onely to those Kings but to their subiects yea to their common weale also And yet ye say further their common wealth was but ciuill and politike and vvente no further than outwarde peace tranquillitie welthe and prosperous maynteinance which is the onely ende of their gouernement and that it reacheth not any iote further What if one should bidde you looke further in the scripture and so ye should finde it stretche somewhat further than to be common with the great Turkes gouernement What if a man should presse you with your owne wordes afterwarde that yet catche it more than one inche further for assisting of the Churche vvith the temporall svvorde which the great Turke the great Chan the Persian Sophie doth not but drawe their swordes agaynst it What if a man should referre this among your contradictions What if he should ioyne another withall that where yet ye confesse the Iewes common vvealth was godly before Christes comming and other common wealthes were not godly and yet the ciuill gouernement of Christian princes reacheth no further than the ciuill gouernement of heathen princes and one finall ende is common to bothe and so eyther the Heathens common vveales were godly also or else the Iewes were vngodly too yea what if the heathens coÌ„mon vveale and heathen Princes fell out to be in better estate of the twayne if only quietnesse vvealth abundance and prosperitie were the onely and finall ende of bothe if ye were well vrged in all these thinges thinke ye M. Stap. these your principles would be able to defende you yea lastly if one woulde denie these your Heathen and Turkishe maximies bring ye any thing to proue them than your owne bare saying that it is to be knovvne But no true Christian knovveth it M Stap. nor will euer acknowledge this which with suche bolde impudencie ye grounde vppon that christian Princes gouernement reacheth no further than ciuill and outvvarde safetie vvealth abundaunce and prosperitie and is common asvvell to heathen as to Christian princes Neuerthelesse M. Stap. taking it for a rolled case and out of question rolleth vp the matter as graunted And as he hath thus determined the boundes of Christian Princes gouernement so as it were by commission from his holy father he descrybeth the Popes kingdome But ouer and besides sayth he yea and aboue this is there an other gouernment instituted and ordeyned by Christ in a spirituall and a mysticall body of such as he graciously calleth to be of his kingdome â–ª which is the kingdome of the faythfull and so consequently of heauen wherevnto christian fayth dothe conduct vs In whiche spirituall body commonly called Christes catholike Church there are other heades and rulers than ciuill Princes as Vicars Parsons Byshops Archbyshops Patriarkes and ouer them al the Pope VVhose gouernement chiefly serueth for the furtherance and encrease of this spirituall kingdome as the ciuill Princes doe for the temporall That there is another mysticall body the kingdome of the faythful directed by an other spiritual gouernement this is a true principle M. Stap. and truer than you wéene or would haue it But as you are deceiued and would deceiue others with the title of that
infidelitie beeing expelled and the furie of discorde remooued I shoulde reuoke the people to the knoweledge of faythe and to the â—…eloweshippe of the Catholyke Churche who serued errour vnder the name of Religion Lo master Stapleton here ye sée farre other endes of the ciuile gouernment of Christian Princes than as you most falsely and iniuriouslye alleage to preserue them from all outwarde iniuryes oppressions and enemyes and further to preserue them for theyr safetie and quietnesse for theyr wealth abundaunce and prosperous maintenaunce and that it tendeth and reacheth no further And that thys is common as well to the heathenishe as the Christian gouernement Fye for shame master Stapleton that euer suche heathenishe woordes shoulde procéede out of your catholyke lips But ye are halfe ashamed I sée and woulde mollifie the matter so muche as ye can with a proper qualification that those thinges which these godly Princes did although they did them yet therein were they no more but Aduocates and so saye you All good Princes doe and haue done ayding and assisting the Churche decrees made for the repression of vice and errors for the maintenance of vertue true religion Not as supreme gouernors themselues in all causes spirituall and temporall but as faythfull Aduocates in ayding and assisting the spirituall power that it may the sooner and more effectually take place As ye bring this shifting distinction of Aduocate to late M. Stap. hauing before quite debarred the Princes Ciuill gouernement of goyng anye iote further than ye there did bounde it to meddle no further wyth ayding and assisting the spirituall power than a Saracene doeth ayde and assist it gyuing Princes no more leaue to be Aduocates thereof than ye make the Turke or Souldan saying this theyr so limitted gouernement is common as well to both Heathen as Christian euen so this your office of Aduocateshippe came to late into the Churche by manye yeares to debarre anye of these forenamed Princes in theyr owne supreme gouernement aboute 〈◊〉 matters to make it sownde as though they onely had béene the ayders assisters or Aduocates vnto others and not them selues the doers Whereas on the contrarie they were the verye doers thoughe not of those actions that appertâ—…yned to the Ministers offices yet of the gouerning and directing bothe the Ministers and their actions yea and the principall ouerséers and supreme rulers of them as euen their déedes and wordes before rehearsed plainly declare As for thys shyft of Aduocation was long sithence after theyr tymes deuysed Whiche office of Aduocateshippe séemeth to bée deâ—…yued from this fonde errour of the Papistes that the seculer power is immediately and primarelye as they terme it in the Pope but he hath not also immediatelye the exercise or execution of it but gyueth that to the Prince and so the Prince becommeth the Popes Aduocate or rather his executioner And thus was first say they Carolus Magnus Pope Adrians Aduocate executing the Byshoppe of Romes will agaynste Desiderius King of Lumbardie Wherevpon Charles was made Emperour by the Pope notwithstanding Michaell the Emperour was then lyuing at Constantinople Propter hoc dicunt sayeth Dante 's Aligherius quòd omnes qui fuerunt Romanorum imperatores post ipsum ipse Aduocatâ—… Ecclesiae sunt debent ab Ecclesia aduocari For thys thyng all that were Emperours of Rome after hym and hee hym selfe are Aduocates of the Churche and oughte of the Churche to be called vpon Lupolous de Babenberge also telleth that Pope Zacharie declarauit c. declared or pronounced that Childericus Pepins master shoulde be deposed and Pepine be made the King of Fraunce whome when Pope Steuen the seconde annoynted with his sonnes Carolus and Carolomanus French Kings Ipsos specialiter elegit sayth Lupoldus ad sedem Apostolicam defendendam Ex hac electione putoque reges imperatores Romanorum sint vsque in hodiernum diem ecclesia Romanae aduocati de qua Aduocatia loquuntur iura canonica He chose them especially to defende the Apostolicall Sea. Of this election I thinke it commeth that Kinges and Emperours of the Romaynes are euen to this daye the Aduocates of the Romayne Churche of whiche Aduocacie speake the Canonicall lawes Thus you sée the originall of your deuised Aduocateship commeth nothing neare the examples of the sayde godly Princes béeing themselues supreme gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters before your Aduocateshippe was first hatched No reason therefore the Punie shoulde debarre the Seniour And yet it is but a sielie shift of your Canonistes descant rather detecting the vnlawfull encroching of the Pope than defeating anye parte of the Princes authoritie in this hys supreme gouernement As for those Princes Carolus Magnus his sonnes and other Emperours since theyr tymes were nothing suche Aduocates as your Pope and you woulde nowe pretende that is to say to be your onelye executioners But as these stories testifie euen these Aduocates also were the chiefe directours and supreme gouernours of all those things they did Yea the Pope hym selfe so well as anye other Byshoppe in theyr territoryes was subiecte to them They ayded and assisted the Byshoppe of Rome I graunt when he humblie aduocated then he called vppon them for ayde and assystance agaynst the wrongers of him But the Pope by commaundement called them not and they obeyed his calling and so became his aduocates which is cleane contrarie to an aduocates office And therefore once agayne your argument is nought They were aiders and aduocates Ergo not supreme gouernours But M. St. will further proue by his former ensamples why this supreme gouernement can not appertayne to the Prince For this supreme gouernement sayth he can he not haue vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man no more than can a man be master of a shippe that neuer was a mariner A maior that neuer was a citizen Hys principal gouernement resting in ciuill matters and in that respecte as I haue sayde he is supreme gouernour of all persons in his Realme but not of all their actions but in suche sense as I haue specified and least of all the actions of spirituall men especially of those which are most appropriate to them which can not be vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man. You frame your similitude very vnproportionably M. Stap â–ª from the master of a shippe or the maior of a citie to a Prince or supreme gouernour Either of these béeing particuler offices vnder a supreme gouernour that maketh lawes euen both for maiors in cities and masters of shippes also â–ª And albeit no argumeÌ„t builded on similitudes is firme to proue or improue any controuersie though rightly applied they may lighteÌ„ the matter to him that assenteth but not enforce it to him that denieth notwithstanding your similitudes as they proue nothing so they nothing lighten but more obscure the matter yet if these your similitudes were admitted froÌ„ maior and pilot to supreme gouernour what true conclusion can ye inferre vpon
sticke at that ye will not sticke and make that false that ye graunt true or else ye proue master Feck not to be ignorant contrarie to his defence and all the rest of your owne défence of him as we shall sée your wordes afterwarde In the meane time let vs sée howe pretily ye shift off the matter onely bicause the Bishop names Tho. of Aquine a schole Papist for the diuision of Ignoraunce thinking ye haue gotten a wonderfull aduauntage thereby for the Popes supremacie But nowe sayth M. Stap. the verye authour brought forth by master Horne so fullie and effectually dischargeth M. Feck of all three and chargeth M. Horne with the worst of them three that is wilfulnesse and malice as he shal winne small worship by alleaging of S. Thomas For S. Tho. sayeth plainely that we are obliged and bounde vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to beleeue that the Pope is the onely supreme heade of the whole Church Nowe fearing as not without good cause that the B. would in this matter reiect the authoritie of this Thomas whom our Thomas calleth a late latine writer and to much affectionate to the Pope as it were by preuention He can not well reiect his authoritie sayeth he vsing it him selfe And why so Sir I pray you must euery one that citeth him in any one poynt receyue and admit his authoritie to in euerie poynt Is it lawfull for the Sorbonistes the Scholemen and the whole rabble of the Papistes yea for Thomas Stapleton him selfe to accept Thomas of Aquines authoritie in some poyntes and to reiect his authoritie in other some poyntes and is it not lawfull for the Bishop or anye other to vse the same libertie The Sorbonistes affirme of this Thomas Illa doctrina non potest esse in omnibus sic approbata c. That doctrine can not in all thinges be so approued that conteyneth many thinges erronious in fayth but as they say the foresayde doctrine of Saint Thomas not onelye in the matter of the absolute necessitie of a creature c. but also in manye other thinges conteyneth manye matters erronious in fayth And againe Non oportet credere c. VVee muste not beleeue that the doctrine it selfe is in no parte thereof erronious or hereticall wherein are conteyned manye contrarieties and repugnancies yea euen in the matter perteyning to the sayth â–ª but manye suche contrarieties and repugnancies are conteyned in the doctrine of Saynt Thomas Agayne 〈◊〉 dicunt aliqui c. And some saye for thys that manye maye denye the glosses of the decrees and Decreâ—… when the glosse doeth openlye denye the texte and lykewyse some saye of the ordinarye glosses of the Byble that notwithstanding seeme to bee of greater authoritie when they are alleaged for authoritie than is the Doctryne of Saint Thomas The sixte example maye bee giuen of certayne Doctours whiche are not canonized Saintes as the venerable Anselme Byshoppe of Cant. Hughe of Saint Victor and certayne other whose sayinges or wrytinges are in certayne poyntes founde erronious and yet theyr doctrine seemeth to bee no lesse authenticall than the doctrine of Saint Thomas sithe they are of the skilfull in their scolasticall actes alleaged for authoritie nor are wonted to bee denyed but their sayinges reuerently to be glosed and expounded whiche notwythstanding the Schoolemen are not woont to doe on the sayinges of Saint Thomas and therefore it seemeth presumptuous so to extoll hys Doctrine ouer them and other Doctours that wee maye not beleeue and affirme that hee erred in fayth euen as other also haue erred And after this as likewise before reckoning vp diuerse errours these spéeches are common Ista locutio est de virtute sermonis falsa multum impropria c. This speech in the force of the wordes is false and verie improper Ista doctrina multos errores continet c. This Doctrine conteyneth manie errours Uidetur multipliciter erroneum c. It seemeth diuerse wayes erroneous Deficit in multis c. If fayles in many poyntes Non est verum c. It is not true Et breuiter haec alia multa erronea falsa impropriè dicta videÌ„tur multis in praedicta doctrina contineri quae tamen ex taediâ—… pertransimus And briefly these and many other erronious false improper sayings seeme to many to be conteyned in the foresaide doctrine the which notwithstanding we ouerpasse for tediousnesse And from hence they discend to manifest errours in diuinitie And in conclusion write thus of him They say also that in verie many places of his doctrine he erred by reason of this that he applied to much the principles of philosophie or rather certaine wordes of Philosophers to the conclusions of Diuinitie Thus say the great Censors of the Popish doctrine agaynst Thomas of Aquine so well they agrée togither in vnitie of doctrine obiecting discorde vnto vs Yea the whole swarme of Papists not excepting our Thom. St. here him selfe vnlesse he be returned to the truth since he wrote his booke reiecteth and condemneth Thom â–ª of Aquines iudgement and authoritie in one of the most necessarie matters of Christian religion namely the doctrine of iustification For expounding this sentence of S. Paule Arbitramur hemâ—…neÌ„ iustificari absque operibus legis Arbitramur enim nos c. For we being taught of Christ thinke sayth Thomas according to the truth of the Apostle that euerie man whether he be Iewe or Gentile is iustified by faith Actes 15. By fayth purifying their hearts that without the workes of the law and that not onely without the ceremoniall works which did not giue grace but also without the works of the moral commandements according to that saying to Titus 3. Not of the works of the righteousnes that we haue wrought The reason is presumed that we are saued for our merits the which he excludeth when he sayth not of the works of the righteousnesse which we haue done But the true reason is the onely mercy of god There is not therefore in them the hope of iustification sed in sola fide but in fayth alone VVorkes are not the cause that any bodie is iust before God but they are rather executions and the manifestings of righteousnesse Where Tho. of Aquine thus according to Gods worde speaketh the truth as in this poynt here of iustification the Bishop and all other faythfull receyue his iudgement and admit the same with better reason than the Papists reiect it But where as in many other poyntes he swarueth from the truth though the Papists saint him neuer so much yet there all true saintes with good reason refuse him As in this that master Stapleton citeth out of him who confesseth him selfe that Thomas being a late latine writer wrote partiallye in this poynte bycause hée was to muche affectioned to the Pope and shall we beléeue such an affectionate wryter in hys partiall affection Or shall we beléeue master Stapleton no
as to receyue it what soeuer hath not his authoritie out of the Scriptures And what so-euer wee finde not in the Scriptures we may vse them euen as we list our selues Why may we not say as S. Augustine saide Quia Canonicum non â—…st non me astringit Bicause it is not the Canonicall Scripture it bindeth me not to beleue or receyue it but of this matter furder as ye giue furder occasion Thirdly your argument of proportion from a Parliament to London fayleth standing on your olde and vayue presupposals that we haue graunted or must graunt you that your Popish Church is the true Churche That Christian realmes haue the same respect to your Popish church that a Citie in any Realme hath to the whole estate of the same Realme and againe that your Popes violent Councels are as frée lawfull and generall and enact onely as Godly decrées and constitutions to the directing of the true Churche as the Parliaments of a realme be frée lawfull and generall and enact godly lawes and constitutions for their policies and estates All these things beyng nothing proportionable we must graunt you to be true and fitte or else this your argument and your former crake neyther barell better herring may go togither a Gods name The rest of your counter blast to this diuision as it is nothing materiall so it is eyther altogither wordes of course or else a petit quarell that ye lappe vp all the matter withall bicause the Bishop called this sentence a sentence of the Holy Ghost In maleâ—…lam animam non 〈◊〉 sapientia VVisedome shall not enter into a frowarde soule which bicause it is mere impertiuent and friuolous I haue reiected it to your common places Discorde on our doctrine can ye gather none thereon but you would faine sowe discorde where none is and yet ye boast of vnitie But if ye remembered setting all other discordes aside how well as is afore sayd your Sorbonists and your Louanists and you Thomas Stapleton agrée euen with your owne swéete S. Thomas of Aquine and how your tale agreeth with it selfe how it excuseth and accuseth M. Feckenham ye should then sée who they be that as ye say in place of vniforme tuning ruffle vs vp a blacke Sanctus who they be that chaunging their shapes like Proteus haue so often altred their religion and whether they touch M. Feckenham and you or any of your chiefe Masters yea or no. The ninth Diuision THe Bishop hauing by Thomas his distinction of ignorance answered M. Feckenhams argument descendeth to cope with M. Feckenham in his issue and to proue the same by all the sayd meanes that he requireth And first to the issue whiche was That any Emperour or Empresse King or Queene may claime or take vpoÌ„ them any suche gouernment in spirituall or Ecclesiasticall causes The Bishop answereth that they ought to take such gouernment Ergo they may lawfully do it For his antecedeÌ„t that they ought he referreth to the foure meanes of the issue that M. Feckenham would haue it tried by M. Stapl. picking by quarels of other pretended answers made by the Bishop before falsely surmising that he then denied or mollified the woordes of the othe and that now he answereth without any molliâ—…iyng or restiaint that the Queene ought to take vpon hir such kinde of regiment these answeres he calleth so â—…arring variable diuerse and so contrary the one to the other that if the one be true the other must be false and so concludes they be false and deceiueable both of them But M. St. this is a false and a deceiuable point of your owne deuising from the which I perceyue by the tenour of your whole counterblast ye will neuer iarre nor varie one iote except God sende you hereafter better grace and iudgement than thus still to ground your self and your writings on manifest lies and forgeries and then presuppose them in your nodâ—…le for manifest principles and truthes Thus do ye all your booke ouer so ye play here First ye ground your selfe on a forged answere that the Bishop should before haue made imagining it must néedes be true bicause you say ye certainly vnderstande that M. Feckenham hath so reported to some of his friendes that the Bishop made then another resolute answere This is all that ye all age for proofe of it ye haue it but by heare say at the hande of some partiall tale bearer some tolde you that M. Feckenham told some that the Bishop tolde him that this was his resolute answere and you beleue it for a certentie and write it solemnly in your booke to deface the Bishop as it were with doubble and contrary answering your selfe in the meane season answering nothing to the argument nor to the Bishops present and printed answere And therfore I neede returne no other answere to you than that one tolde me that another told him that he told you that ye were to light of credence to beleue euery flimme flamme tale and to rash of Iudgement to clap downe such tales in your booke of whiche ye had no better proufe than that all the worlde should see claw me claw thee two false marchants néede no broker they say The tenth Diuision THe Bishop entring into his proufes of the issue that Princes ought to take vpoÌ„ them such gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes as the Queenes Maiestie doth chalenge and take vppon hit among other properties belonging to the Princely office to beginne with all auoucheth out of Deut. the 17. and the 13. with some expositoures vpon the same that the Prince is commaunded to haue by him the booke of the lawe to reade in it diligently to this ende that he himselfe may learne the feare of God and cause his subiects to become Israelites by his princely authoritie redressing the peruersnesse of such aâ—… swerue from the ordinances and ceremonies appointed of god The which beyng true the conclusion consequently followeth thereuppon M. St. answere to this argument resteth on foure faults that he findeth with the Antecedent which he calleth vntruthes so reckoneth them vp also in his score but bicause they are the principall materiall pointes whereon his answere dependes I thought it more fitte to note them here But first after his scoffing craking maner he saith to the Bishop Go on I saie in Gods name M. Horne and prosecute your plea stoutly God sende you good speede And so he doth eueÌ„ such as ye the honestie of your cause deserue c. But all these his fromps and vaunts I ouerpasse and referre them to his common places and will onely answere to that which he chargeth the Bishop withall which is no lesse than infidelitie and vnskilfulnesse And to beginne with the later bicause he saith it is the least matter and noteâ—…h it for the former vntruth Your vnskilfulnesse saith he whiche is the least matter standeth in that ye say the King is commaunded to haue by him
master Stapleton here is no small boast I trowe We had nowe néede to beware betymes for feare the Bishoppe be here quite ouerthrowne since that master Stapleton maketh so prowde a chalenge Let vs therefore take héede to hys argument on thys place VVhiche place sayeth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayde that the King and others shoulde receyue not onelye the letter whiche as Saint Paule sayeth doeth kyll but the true and syncere meaning withall wherein standeth the lyfe of the letter as the lyfe of man wythin hys bodie yea the eternall lyfe whereof by following lewde lying expositions of holye wâ—…itte wee are spoyled at the Priestes handes Is this the conclusion of all this great crake M. St. that the B. should be quite ouerthrowne by this sentence what one word is here not only of this sentence but euen of your owne well weighed and considered conclusion theron which hath come nere vnto much lesse ouerthrowne the Bishops assertion Which if ye would haue ouerthrowne ye should haue concluded agaynst it and thus haue reasoned Moses sayde to the people of Israell if any hard or doubtfull thing in iudgement rise vp with thee betwixt bloud and bloud plea and plea plague and plague in matters of strife within the Citie c. Go to the Priestes and vnto the Iudge that shall be in those dayes c. Ergo a Christian king ought not to chalenge or take vpon him any such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall matters as doth the Queenes maiestie This conclusion in déede quite ouerthroweth the Bishops assertion But who séeth not that this sentence is to farre fetched to inferre any such conclusion And therfore master Stapleton thoughe this was his buttâ—… on whiche his eyâ—… shoulde haue béene fixed and brought his proues to haue improued this yet durst he not once touche or come nighe it for very shame for if he had he sawe that euery boye in the scholes would haue hissed out his argument And therefore wilyly weighing and considering howe he might make it séeme to serue to some purpose that he had craked on so much This place sayth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayd that Kings and others should receyue not onely the bare letter but the true and sincere meaning withall c. at the priestes handes And is this all that this place serueth to M. Stapleton for I dare say you haue well weighed and considered the matter that from so great a boast are so sodenly fallen into so déepe a consideration of the bare letter killing and the true quickening sense therof Wheras that text if ye would but meanely weigh and consider it once againe neyther talketh of any killing letter or liuing sense at all but of certaine doubtfull cases of strife nor can serue to confirme those sayings of Christ and Saint Paule without manifest wresting of it But to what purpose doe ye so well weigh and consider that whiche is nothing in question and that which is in question denyed and you should proue without any weighing or considering ye take it for confessed Who doubteth of this that Princes should not onely receyue the bare letter but the true sense and meaning withall at the priestes handes This Princes in déede should do which if they had alwayes done they shoulde not haue receyued so many of their lewde lying expositions as they haue done here to fore at the priestes hands who herein deceyued princes and gaue them not the true meaning and sense togither with the copie of Gods worde but debarred Princes of copie thereof of letter sense and all féeding them wyth the vayne fables and lewde lying expositions of theyr owne deuisings Wherefore Lyra noteth here vppon the Hebrue glosse Hic dicit glossa Hebraica c. Here sayth the Hebrue glosse if the priest shall say vnto thee that thy right hande is thy left hande or thy left hande is thy right hande this saying must be vpholden which thing is manifest false For the sentence of no maner of man of what authoritie so euer he be is to be vpholden if it conteyne a manifest falsehoode or errour And this appeareth by this which is set before in the text They shall iudge vnto thee the truth of Iudgement and afterward is set vnder And they shall teach thee according to his lawe whereby it appeareth that if the Priestes speake that which is false or swarue from the law of God they are not to be heard Thus sayth Lyra in confuting the Hebrue glosars of their hye Priests that sayde they could not erre and therefore what soeuer they taught must be beléeued And do not your Papistes say the same of the Pope and your selfe holde the same of your Priestes expositions that theirs alwayes muste be taken for the true sense else wherto bring ye out this conclusion In doubtfull cases of bloud and ciuill actions of strife the highe Priest and the chiefe Iudge muste determine a finall sentence Ergo Princes muste receiue not the letter of the scripture but suche sense as the Popish priestes and the Pope shall determine for the true sense in all controuersies of religion For this is the ful drift of your reason though ye dare not for shame speake so playne But this argument the more it is wayed wayeth lyke a fether in the winde and therefore ye turne the conclusion into generall words and say Ergo Princes and others muste receiue at the Priestes hands not onely the bare letter that killeth but the true and sincere meaning therof withall Which coÌ„clusion is not in controuersie but on both parts graunted they oughtso to do the Priests to deliuer to their Princes and others the worde of God and the true sense therof and the Prince and others oughte so to receiue of them the same word of God and the true sense thereof and not the priests owne deuises and expositions But since that none haue euer done more coÌ„trarie to this rule sythe it was first giuen by Moyses then haue the Popishe priestes had not Christian princes great néede to beware of Popishe Priests gloses and follow the councell of Lyra in reiecting them as other good Princes haue done to displace those false glosing priestes and place faythfull disyensers of Gods mysteries in their roomes and ouersée that their people be not deceiued in receiuing at the priests handes quid pro quo And for this cause the priest shoulde deliuer to his prince a perfect copy of the law which M. St. wickedly termeth the bare letter that killeth and thereto wresteth S. Paule wresteth this sentence of the iudiciall law among the Iewes for their time in the foresaide ciuill controuersies to be a simple rule for all christian common weales in all ecclesiastical causes excluding quite al iudgement from the prince including it in his Pope Priests alone iumbling the Prince and the people togither vnder the priests absolute determination
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
priests and Leuites in their offices and functions ecclesiasticall in appoynting howe the Arke shoulde be borne For sacrifising and blessing for ordeining Psalmes singers instruments officers and all other things for the setting foorthe of the diuine seruice and Gods true religion Whiche argueth that he was their supreme gouernour in all ecclesiasticall causes Master Stap. first for a briefe summarie answere to these doings of Dauid clappeth downe this marginal note Dauid in all these matters determined no doctrine nor altered any religion agaynst the Priestes willes of his owne supreme authoritie This note is bothe malicious and slaunderous as though we ascribed to the Quéenes Maiestie or she tooke vpon hir such authoritie and that of hir owne sway and wil against all hir Clergies minde and counsell to determine and alter what religion pleaseth or displeaseth hir This is the Popes clayme and tyrannie and not oure Princes or any other godly Princes dooing And yet this note is partly false for king Dauid agaynst the will of hys idle Priestes caused the misordering of the Arke to be reformed And did many other thinges about Religion to the which the Priests obeyed And determined doctrine also euen by master Stapl. owne confession in this Chapter The first argument that master Stapl. maketh is this Bothe M. Dorman and M. D. Harding affyrme that the proceedings of king Dauid are nothing preiudiciall to the ecclesiasticall authoritie in redressing of disorders before committed or doing suche thinges as are heere rehearsed Ergo They inferre no supreme gouernment ouer causes ecclesiasticall This argument standeth altogither vpon the authoritie of his good masters M. Dorman and M. D. Harding from whome he boroweth his stuffe For the moste of his owne surplusage is but his common places of descant on them And as they be so great in his bookes so he reasoneth as Pythagoras schollers had wont to reason of their master 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he sayde so Ergo it is so and thus argueth M. Stap. Bothe M. Dorman and M. D. Harding affirme it Ergo it is true But what do they affirme That the proceedings of king Dauid in redressing disorders before committed or doing suche things as heere are rehearsed are nothing preiudiciall to the ecclesiasticall authoritie Why M. Stap. who sayth against them or you herein king Dauids procéedings in deede were nothing preiudicial to the ecclesiasticall authoritie of persons ecclesiasticall they executed all their functions still belonging to their authoritie And bicause his procéedings in redressing suche disorders and all other things that he did declare moste plainly his supreme gouernement in setting foorthe and directing Gods true religion and yet were no preiudice to the Priests ecclesiasticall authoritie it followeth ther vpon that the supreme gouernment in setting foorth Gods true religion in correcting repressing ecclesiastical disorders in reducing and directing good orders and al other doings here rehearsed that ye confesse king Dauid did are no parte of the Priestes ecclesiasticall authoritie for then in doing them he should haue done things preiudicial therevnto and therfore they are no parts therof but of king Dauids royal authoritie And this while fondly ye woulde as it were ouerpresse vs with suche great mens authoritie as is M. Dorman M. D. Harding or euer ye be aware ye make them flatly giue verdite agaynst you with vs A Gods name bring their authoritie so agaynst vs as oft as ye wil neither M. Dorman nor M. D. Harding will giue ye great thanks therfore But for all this ye will bring vs more of D. Hardings stuffe As master D. Harding say you noteth king Dauids proceedings in redressing disorders before committed or doing suche things as are heere rehearsed do no more employ a supremacie in him then the reformation of religion made by Queene Mary But that ye wot well employeth in hir no suche supremacie Ergo No more do those procéedings in him This argument staÌ„deth wholly vpoÌ„ his M. D. Hardings authoritie alone bicause he hath noted that the one dyd no more than the other that their doings were alike héerein But the doings of the one inferre no supremacie Ergo the others neither But if we might be so bolde as to denie this your maior or rather your maxima or principle that ye build vpon of D. Hardings comparison in making king Dauids doings to be none other but such as were Quéene Maries Where were then your argument M. St ye talked righte now of Impar congressus Achilli Troilus the match betwene Troilus Achilles was vneueÌ„ but here is a gret deale more inferiour match betwéene K. Dauid Q. Mary Yea their doings were so little alike that they were cleane contrarie For although she were a princesse of famous memorie yet herein your popish Prelates made hir so beléeue them that she durst not redresse disorders in the Clergie at al but suffred the Pope and his prelates to reduce their false religion Nor she retayned the estate that belonged to hir of supreme gouernment but vtterly renounced it And therfore that reformation or rather deformation was not made at all by hir nor in hir name but by the Pope and his Popelings she only permitting it â–ª But if ye meane as ye speake that it was made by hiâ—… in dâ—…de as your Massers words are Queene Mary did it by the meanes of the Priest so that she was the doer and they were but the mâ—…anes she was the maker and they but hir instruments then your similitude goeth agaynst you and proueth a supremacie in hir as was in Dauid But ye speake colorably to make in suche a 〈◊〉 some proportion in speeche of a similitude For in very déede what soeuer ye say the matter went so that your popishe byshops and priestes were the doers of all And she good Lady was but your instrument and meane whereby ye killed Christ in his members as did the high priestes kill Christ in his body vnder Pontius Pilate I speake not to compare hir béeing hir selfe a noble Christian Prince to him béeing a heathen tyrant but to shewe how you abused hiâ—… authoritie as the Iewes did his But as for king Dauid as he did those things in redressing disorders and all other noted by the Bishop whiche your selfe can not denie so he was the principall in the dooing of them and he reformed euen the Priestes them selues And thoughe in some thinges he vsed the Priestes as meanes yet what dothe this infringe his supreme authoritie and not rather proue it And thus your other argument from D. Hardinges authoritie by D. Hardinges owne confession that they were but the meanes and king Dauid and Quéene Mary the doers of suche ecclesiasticall matters once agayne maketh quite agaynst you and your master D. Harding also and establisheth the Princes supreme gouernement ouer the priests and all I areade ye beware since ye stande so muche vpon your masters woordes héerein that if ye alleage hys authoritie any more
euen the name of Ministers as euen your selfe do M. St. other where how soeuer here it came vppon you to pretende to bestow a reuerent speach thereon But the Apostles thought not scorne of the name but willed men so to estéeme them as the ministers of God and the dispensers of his mysteries but as your papall Bishops and Priestes be nothing like Gods ministers so least of all are they like the Prophets that were then except ye meane the prophets of Baal that maintayned idolatrie and pleasant leasings to maintayne them selues at Achabs table and fill their paunches with the chéere of Beel and the Dragon The Lords prophets they be not like neither in preaching propheciyng or ought els And yet saith M. Stapl. they be the onely ministers of God now in spirituall matters as prophets were then in the like Why M. Stapl. were the prophets then onely gods ministers in spirituall matters if ye say no how doth your tale hang togither why say ye they are onely Gods ministers now as Prophets were then in the like since the Prophetes were not onely Gods ministers then as ye pretende for your Bishops and Priestes to be onely now If they were not onely then no more be yours only now admitting they were in the like If ye say yea they were onely then Gods ministers as the Bishops and Priests be now what were the Bishops Priestes and Leuites then that were no prophetes were not they Gods ministers in spirituall matters also if yea then were not the Prophets in the like to your Bishops and Priestes that are as ye say only gods ministers now Make your tale for shame hang better togither and withall tell what you meane by this dubble shuffling Ye tolde vs before that your Bishops and Priestes now are like the Bishops and Priestes then and that not the Prophets but the Priestes had that prerogatiue which ye haue so often craked vpon your generall rule of iudgemeÌ„t whereby ye vrged then a supremacie not in the Prophets but in the Bishops Priests And now seing that ye caÌ„ not proue it in these examples where the Bishops Priests obey the Princes ordinance as his inferiours ye shift of the matter to the Prophetes say now your priests prelates succéede are like the Prophetes let go the former claime of priests But these are but your shifts for if the Prophets had this supreme gouernment then the priests had it not If it appertained to the hie priestes chayre so long as the priesthoode of Moses continued then it belonged not to the Prophetes and thus ye contrary your selfe But in very déede neither of theÌ„ both had it but the Prince vnder god They were both Gods ministers in their diuerse functioÌ„s and yet subiecte to their Princes as for the popish Bishops and priestes are like to neither of both The. 17. Diuision THe Bishop with the like example of Iosias concludeth his collection of the Princes in the Old Testament and herevppon maketh in effect this reason All these doinges of these kinges are commended as acceptable seruice and right in the sight of God But the clayming taking vppon them the supreme gouernment ouer the ecclesiasticall persons of all degrees the ruling gouerning and directing them in all their functions in al manner causes belonging to religion were the doings of all these kinges Ergo For Princes to clayme and take vppon them the like supreme gouernment is their right and acceptable seruice in the sight of God. The counterblast of master Stapleton to this diuision is thrée folde First to the example of Iosias Secondly to the argument Thirdly by setting vp newe issues and markes to improue all that the Bishop hath hitherto exemplified as vnsufficient to proue the issue To the first part sayth Master Stapleton King Iosias traueled full godly in suppressing Idolatrie by his kingly authoritie VVhat then so doe good catholike Princes also to plucke downe the Idolles that yee and your brethren haue of late set vp and yet none of them take them selues for supreme heades in all causes spirituall This is all that he aunswereth to the example of Iosias First where the Bishop sayd Iosias had the like care to the foresayde Princes for religion and vsed in the same sorte his Princely authoritie in reforming all abuses in al maner causes ecclesiastical To this aunswereth master Stapleton He traueled full godly in suppressing Idolatrie by his kingly authoritie As though this were a full aunswere denying or graunting the Bishops assertion or as thoughe besides the suppressing of Idolatrie he did nothing else Where as the scripture is plaine how hee also redde the lawe before all his subiects how he made the couenant with God that all hys subiectes shoulde walke after the Lorde and obserue all hys commaundements testimonies and ceremonies Howe hée sware them all to kéepe this couenant Howe he commaunded them to kéepe suche a solemne passeouer as was neuer kept by any of all the kings before him How the Priestes appoynted not themselues but he appoynted them in their offices Howe they exhorted not him but howe he exhorted them to prepare themselues sayth Lyra dutifully to celebrate with deuotion the solemnitie of the passeouer Howe he commaunded the arke to be set vp in the Sanctuarie and to beare it no more on their shoulders Howe he commaunded theÌ„ to minister to the Lord and to his people Israel How he commaunded theÌ„ to prepare them selues according to the houses of their auÌ„cesters in their orders aâ—… Dauid had appointed them How he coÌ„maunded them to minister in the sanctuary by their families and Leuiticall courses How he commaunded them to be sanctified and then to offer the passeouer How he commauÌ„ded them also to prepare or sanctifie the residue of their brethren And when al things were prepared how the Priestes kept their stations and the Leuites were in their orders according as the king had commaunded them And so saith the text after it hath reckened vp the manner of the Priests Leuites singers and porters ministeries all the seruice or worship was orderly accomplished in that day to keepe the passeouer and offer their burnt offrings vppon the aultare of the Lorde according to the commaundement of Iosias the King. All these things M. Stapl. were done by his authoritie and commaundement But all these thinges are matters and causes ecclesiasticall Ergo his authoritie and commaundement stretched furder than in suppressing Idolatrie yea â—…uen ouer the chiefest matters ecclesiasticall But all this had M. Stap. quite forgotten and therefore we must beare with him though he answere the Bishop only with this Iosias traueled full godly in suppressing Idolatrie by his kingly authoritie Wherein we sée also how doubtfully he speaketh for when he perceyued it could not be denied but that which he did he did by his kingly authoritie yet would he not say that he suppressed Idolatrie by
his kingly authoritie but he traueled full godly in suppressing Idolatrie by his kingly authoritie as though his kingly authoritie stretched no furder than to trauell in the execution of seruing the priestly authoritie But the Scripture is most euident that his kingly authoritie and godly trauell was not in executing the Priestes commaundement but the priestly authoritie traueled in the seruice and executing of the Princes commandement For as he destroyed all their Idols and places of Idolatry and abolished or depriued as Uatablus expoundeth it the false priestes of their priestly dignitie so he commaunded by this his kingly authoritie all the true priestes both the high priest Helchias and vnder him the inferiour priestes and porters to trauell likewise in bringing out to him all the Idolatrous vessels and he summoned or gathered togither all the Priestes And all that there is done is named to be done by him that is to say eyther by him selfe or by his appoyntment and commaundement through his kingly authoritie both in abolishing the false worship and in establishing and directing the true worship of God not onely in generall but also in perticuler yea in the chiefest spirituall matters ouer all the Clergie and the high Priest so well as all his other subiectes and all this was done of him by his kingly authoritie But what then saith M. Stapleton to all this as it were with a phillip to ouerturne al the matter with his Masters what then Forsooth M. St. then it was not his godly trauell in a seruiceable execution of the priestes commaundements but his godly trauell in commaunding them their godly trauel in a seruiceable execution of the kinges commaundements And then it was not onely in suppressing Idolatrie as you limite it but in refourming establishing directing appointing the whole true worship of God besides And then was this his kingly authoritie by the which he did all these things though many of them were Moses Dauids yea the Prophetes former ordinances and Gods commaundement long before yet were they done here by the kinges owne authoritie which in the last example of Ezechias concerning Dauid ye would not admitte bicause it was Gods appoyntment by the hande of his Prophetes Such as were many of these things like wise and yet now ye graunt they were done also euen by Iosias his kingly authoritie And then I pray you what so great a difference finde ye betwéene these twaine the King doth it by his kingly authoritie that here ye confesse and the King doth it by his owne authoritie that there ye denied is not the kinges kingly authoritie the Kinges owne authoritie and yet is all his authoritie from god It followeth then to your what then by your owne confession and the manifest Scripture that this his owne kingly authoritie of Iosias was next vnder God the chiefe and supreme ouer all the Priestes Leuites Singers Porters or any other so well as the people in all abolishing of false religion and in all commaunding and directing the true worship and religion of God which are the principall causes ecclesiasticall And what then say you to this M. Stapleton doth it not cléerely proue the Bishops assertion against M. FeckenhaÌ„ for al your counterblasting it with your bigge what then Thinke ye it proues he did no more then than you will suffer Princes to do now abusing them with the title of good catholike Princes and bereauing them of their good catholike and princely authoritie that by the examples of these good catholike princes they ought to take vpon them and your Pope vsurpes it from them And yet you say to abase the doings of Iosias so do good catholike Princes also to plucke downe the Idolles that ye and your brethren haue of late set vp and yet none of them tooke them selues for supreme heades in all causes spirituall The question is not nowe Master Stapleton what those your good catholike Princes as ye call them take them selues to be whome you haue spoyled and make beléeue what it pleaseth you to tell them that their kingly authoritie reacheth no furder but to be seruiceable trauelers and executioners of your commaundements But the question is here what these Princes mencioned in the holy Scriptures tooke them selues to be which appereth by their appointinges and coÌ„maundinges of their Clergie in their functions that they tooke them selues for their Clergies supreme gouernours in these matters And so ought al good catholike princes by their examples to estéeme of them selues and of their high calling and charge in ecclesiasticall causes and trauayle by their godly supreme gouernment to discharge the same Where ye say therefore so do good catholike princes meaning those that submitte themselues with all the gouernment of religion and all ecclesiasticall matters to your Pope and his prelates not medling them selues therewith as did Iosias and these other godly Kinges whome we sée to haue medled with the gouernment and direction thereof it is apparant false and their doinges herein are no more alike than blacke is like to white than to commaunde directe and appoint others is like to be of the same parties in the same matters commaunded directed and appointed themselues than gouerning is like seruing than one contrarie is like to another And yet you say for ye care not what ye saie as did king Iosias so do your good catholike princes now But what is that they do plucke down the Idols say you that you and your brethern haue set vp Whether we our bretheren or you and your bretheren haue set vp Idols let it fal out betwene vs as it shall hereafter we shall come to the reckening onely stande you to this M. Stapleton that the plucking downe of Idols belongeth to Princes by their kingly authoritie and that so they ought to account of them selues their authoritie which if they had done and diligently executed this their kingly authoritie your shifte of Images and Idols had not auayled you for euen to your moste famous Images shrines and pilgrimages hath foule idolatrie bene committed as the chiefe of your brethren them selues are fayne to confesse and crye out vpon and yet durst your princes neuer pull them downe nor you would euer haue suffred thâ—… so to do for your lucre lay muche therein but caused the Princes to mainteine and enriche suche Images as you dayly did set vp As for the Idols that we should haue set vp who séeth not we haue so little set vp any that we reiecte for Idols those which ye call your Images and professe that neither they nor any other thing besides God nor God in them or by them is to be worshipped but God alone and that in spirite and truthe and so receiue his playne simple worde and sacraments But if as ye sayde before those Princes pull downe our heresies and those are the Idols that we set vp except this presupposall should be graunted you that those be heresies which we mainteine
But followeth it thereon that they agnised him to bee their supreme heade or gouernour This woulde require to bée prooued with some better Logycke As for these examples argue all the contrary that though the Prinâ—…s agnised alway one to be the chiefe Priest and also agnised all other inferiour Priestes Leuites Porters Singers in theyr offices yet all those highe and lowe whatsoeuer acknowledged agayne the supreme gouernement of commaunding appoynting ordring directing and ouerseeing them to doe all their duties dutifully to appertayne not to themselues but to theyr soueraigne Princes And the Princes as theyr seuerall examples witnesse tooke it vppon them in commaunding appoynting placing and displacing all and euery one yea the highest Priest himselfe And therefore where ye say to the Bishop I pray you good M. Horne bring forth that king that did not agnise one supreme heade and chiefe iudge in all causes ecclesiasticall among the Iewes I meane the highe Priest wherein lyeth all our chiefe question Yee haue not yet done it nor neuer shall doe it And ye coulde shewe anie it were not worth the shewing For ye shoulde not shewe it in anie good King as beeing an open breache of Gods lawe giuen to him by Moses as this your doings are an open breache of Christ and his Churches lawe and giuen to vs in the newe Testament These be but your crakes and outfacings master Stapleton The Bishop hath done it euidently that ye require and the scripture is manifest in all these Kings ensamples Nor they were any wicked Kings nor breakers of Gods law giuen by Moses or any other But euen Moses and all the rest were mainteiners of Gods law giuen to them and therfore are worth the shewing Your conclusion that our doings are an open breache of Christ and his Churches lawe giuen to vs in the new Testament I maye well ouerpasse without aunswere dismissing it to your common place of slaunders not onely of vs but of Christ and his Churche and his newe Testament also till ye shewe in what place of the newe Testiment Christ and his Church whom ye ioyne togither in this law making did make and giue vs this law that either our godly Christian Princes should not haue this supreme gouernment ouer their dominions or that your Pope should haue it ouer all the vniuersall Churche And when ye haue proued this proue also this your first new marke to be the verie state and issue here in question betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham or else agnise with shame your selfe that ye runne at randon loosely and altogither vnfruitfully haue employed yours and your Readers labour for all so lyke a Faulconer ye crie marke marke neuer so muche Your first false marke béeing thus reared vppe yée sette vppe a seconde muche lesse lyke the issue betwéene them but much more lyke the malicious slaunders among you saying Againe what president haue ye shewed of any good King among the Iewes that with his laitie altered and abandoned the vsuall Religion a thousande yeares and vpwarde customably from age to age receyued and embraced and that the high Priest and the whole clergie gainsaying all such alterations If ye haue not shewed this ye haue strayed farre from the marke Whether this be the marke or no or whether maister Stapleton of purpose straggle from it the conference of the issue wyth this will soone declare there is no néede to fette the highe Priestes iudgement as in a doubtfull matter Euery childe maye sée not onely howe farre they differ but also what an heape of slaunders on a plumpe he burdeneth like an vngracious subiect his most gracious soueraigne withall As for the Quéenes Maiesties most godly doings are very well confirmed by these examples And in proufe thereof the Bishop euer kept him closely to hys marke that the supreme gouernment which hir Maiestie taketh on hir is none other but such as they before did take on them Hir highnesse hath abandoned olde inueterate errors crept in besides and contrary to the worde of God she saw the ensample in these godly Kings before hir whose doings therein she followed Hir highnesse hath by the aduice and instruction of hir godly learned Clergie reformed religion according to Gods word although the Popish clergie were negligent and gainesayde the same she sawe the ensample in these kings before hir how by their godly learned prophets aduice and instructions according to Gods word they reformed religion although the Priests Leuits were negligent or withstood the same And this hitteth home the marke Any such gouernment syth both their supreme gouernments be so like And therfore in that you charge hir maiestie otherwise is nothing â—…eare the marke but is your owne reprochfull and very trayterouâ—… slaunder The ioly number of a thousande yeares and vpwarde of your vsuall religion is but your common vaunte and what if I sayde your outfacing lie also to deceyue the simple with a countenance of antiquitie the noueltie and late hatching whereof is dayly the more ye striue the more discouered to be nothing so auncient as ye pretende of a thousande yeares and vpwarde Of which number the most part the originals béeing well boulted out may come backe againe halfe a thousande yeares and more downwarde with shame ynoughe But I sée master Stapleton ye haue hoysted vp your Religion so hie that it staggreth againe and higher for falling downeright ye can not get it It hath béene ye say the vsuall Religion a thousande yeares and vpwarde that is a fayre tyme master Stapleton God saue it But what meane ye by this indefinite terme vpwarde Meane you it hath continued a thousande yeares and a little more Alacke Master Stapleton I am sorie for it and for your paynes taking till your armes ake to lyft it vp so highe and yet it commes too too short to be any true Religion For if it be the true Religion of Iesus Christe whie say yee not boldely man it is the vsuall Religion of fifteene hundreth yeares and vpwarde But eyther your armes are too shorte or your heart fayles you to lifte it vpwarde so highe for then the worde of GOD woulde soone controll you and beate it downe agayne And therefore you are contente with a lower sayle to crake that your Religion is yet a thousande yeares olde and vpwarde But as that is a false crake so is it also a vayne crake and serues not the turne yea admitting it were so old as ye boast 1000 â–ª yeares and vpward yet ought it of all godly Princes to be remooued and pulled downe againe except it be the Religion of fiftene hundreth yeares and vpwarde Eâ—…amsi Angelus docuerit aliud Euangelium quà m quod accepistis anaâ—…hema sit Althoughe an Aungell from heauen should teache any other doctrine than you haue receyued let him be accursed The Religion that the Quéenes Maiestie hath set forth thankes be to God therefore is the religion of 1500. yeares and vpward
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
and profitable to the soule yet vvill he not that any should be constrayned Thus sayth Alfonsus of Aerius opinion for fasting and not as you say master Stapleton that he made no dyfference betvveene him that fasted and that fasted not Whereas Aerius made a great difference and Alfonsus cleareth him of that you accuse him But howsoeuer Alfonsus in the other poynt wherin you let him go frée accuseth Aerius by S. Augustines testimonie if he altogither contemned all maner of fasting ordeyned by the Churche then are we cleared from béeing charged with him for we refuse onely the superstitious necessitis of the Popishe Churches lawes As for the true Churche of Christe if vpon any occasion some lawes of fasting should be made by hir toll vs where we haue sayd we would contemne them Yea it is apparant we yéelde obediently to those lawes of fasting ordeyned by the Quéenes Maiestie and hir realme the Churche of Englande whiche be not superstitious fastes nor binding the minde of the faster with any necessitie of conscience but made for the necessitie and policie of the Realme and state of our countrey And if the whole Church of Christ ordeine like lawes for fasting we shewe hereby how little we would with Aerius despise the same but we with the word of God and with the true Church of Christ in the Apostles times in the Primatiue age and in the auncient fathers dayes reiect all suche superstitions in fastes as the Popishe lawes and customes â—…o burden the Churche withall And thus dothe euen S. Augustine that noteth Aerius writing to Casulanus agaynst one Urbicus in Rome who would haue it obserued for a lawe and made a foolish booke theron that men should fast on Saterday and other dayes saying that Peter did so whom he calleth as the papistes do the head of the Apostles the porter of heauen and the foundation of the Church when he conuicted Simon Magus S Augustine improueth this tale by Peters concorde with all his fellow Disciples that vsed no suche faste And after long prouing and improuing he concludeth thus Si autem quontam huic quantum potus c. But bicause I thinke I haue answered this as sufficiently as I could if ye aske my sentence hereon I reuoluing it in my minde do see that in the Euangelicall and Apostolicall writings and in the whole instrument that is called the new Testament fasting is coÌ„maunded But on what dayes we shoulde not fast and on what dayes we should fast I finde it not defined by the commaundement of the Lorde or of the Apostles And by this I deeme that fasting agreeth fitter not in deede to obtayne righteousnesse which fayth obteineth wherein is the beautie inwarde of the kings daughter c. Howbeit in this fast or dinner on the Saterday nothing seemeth to me heerein to be kepte more safely and quietly than that he which eateth dispise not him that eateth not nor he which eateth not dispise not him which eateth For neither if we eate we shall abounde neither shall we want if we do not eate That is to say while we keepe companie with those among whome we liue and with whome we liue to God without offence taking in these things For as for that the Apostle saythe is true it is ill for the man that eateth through offence so is it ill for the man that by offence doth fast c. Thus farre saint Augustine agaynst the precise appointing of fast on the Saterday in whose time it was frée for euery Church to vse hir owne custome Yea as he concludeth with aunswere of Ambrose hereon VVhen I am at Millaine I fast not on the Saterday when I am at Rome I fast on the Saterday And to what Church ye come keepe the order thereof if ye will neither giue nor take offence Thus we sée first how the fastes of the Church of Rome were no such lawe to all other Churches to receyue from hir their order or dayes of fasting or else they had bene Aerians for then had both S. Augustine Ambrose to béene Aerians by master Stapletons rule and by the Popes obtrusion of his Churches fastes to all other Churches nowe But the Church of Millayne euen vnder his nose besydes those of Affrick were at that time of contrarie orders Secondly as it was of Saterdayes fast so was it also for Fridayes fast or any other daies or day as appeareth by Saint Augustines generall rule in appealing to the Scripture and there finding no day at all appoynted As he sayth afterward againe Sed quoniam noÌ„ inâ—…enimus c. But bicause we finde not as I haue rehearsed aboue in the Euangelicall and Apostolicall writings which properly perteyne to the reuealing of the newe Testament that on any certaine dayes it is euidently commaunded we should keepe fastes c. Thirdly that what dayes soeuer they did kéepe fast they did it not as any meritorious act to obteyne righteousnesse thereby For this was the difference that the Papists put betwene him that fasted and that fasted not which is a thousand partes worse heresie than was that of Aerius I aske none other witnesse herein than euen one of your owne side Frier Ferus who inueying agaynst the Phariseys for ascribing righteousnesse to their sacrifices and ceremonies But wee sayth he do all things preposterously placing righteousnesse in these things which of themselues are neither good nor bad neglecting those things wherein true righteousnesse consisteth But one errour draweth on another For from hence followeth first that we make to our selues a greater conscience of the transgression of the Churches or Monkishe decrees than of the transgression of the diuine precepts Secondly hereon it commeth that we easily iudge other that obserue not the same as here did the disciples of Iohn VVhen Paule notwithstanding teacheth let no man iudge you in meate or in drinke or by reason of a feast day c. Item he that eateth not let him not iudge him that eateth c. To conclude it is farre an other thing to doe the worke than to put a trust in the worke It is good to fast and to keepe the Churches decrees but to put a trust in them is not only not good but wicked For this cause therfore Christ required not fasting other bodily obseruations he exacted not of those that are his or prescribed ought at all of these things not that he iudged such things of theÌ„selues to be euill or vnlawfull but that they should not â—…all thither againe that is to were to a trust of workes from whiche he woulde haue them most farre The which surely had chauÌ„ced if he had exacted any such thing of those that are his as nowe we perceyne is committed in the Churches constitutions For euen as sone as euer these coÌ„stitutions began to be giuen men began also therwith to trust in them And so by little little we haue
greatest reasons M. St. for your ceremonies Here if ye say for all this proportion betwéene your doings and theirs yet are not we so straightly bounde from the fathers traditions as they bicause the Iewes otherwise had ynowe commaunded them and verie fewe in the newe Testament are left to vs Christians Chriso stome telleth you that Christes Disciples ought to keepe the doctrine of God not of men For otherwise Christ blaming the Pharisers for kéeping the doctrine of men if he had suffered his Disciples to kéepe any doctrine of men they woulde haue replyed that wherein he reprehended them hée himselfe was culpable If nowe the Disciples bée bounde to this rule are not your Priestes also Yea are not all Christians bound thereto not to worship God with doctrines of men As for the doctrine of Christ to be euen as full yea and much fuller than was theirs for all it hath not your ceremonies Chrisostome sayth Omnia enim Euangelium continet c. For the Gospell conteyneth all things both present and to come the honor of God godlinesse faith yea al things are shutte vp togither in the worde of Preaching c. For euen as the cryer proclaymeth to all that be at the assemblie euen so sayeth hée doe wee publikely preache After this sorte that we adde nothing but preach onely those things whiche wee haue hearde for that is the vertue of the cryer to prosecute all things truely that he is trusted with not to put to nor alter nor take away anie thing Whiche is so haynous a faulte that from hence as Saint Ambrose sayeth the Deuill gat the first holde when our first mother Eue did but a little alter in telling the wordes of God to the serpent Whervpon we learne sayth he that we ought to ioyne nothing to the commaundement no not to make vs the more warie For if thou puttest too or drawest away any thing it appeareth to be a kinde of transgression of the commaundement And that the pure and simple forme of the commaundement is to be kepte vve muste followe the fashion of witnesse bearing Commonly a witnesse while he putteth too some thing of his owne de uising to the manner of the deedes doing he stayneth with a peece of a lie the whole credite of the witnesse For heere at the first shewe what offence hath it that the woman added Nor ye shall touche any whitte of it for God had not sayde ye shall not touche but ye shall not eate But for all that heereon came the beginning of the fall For the wordes that shee added eyther shee added them as superfluous or adding them of hir owne shee thought that the commandement of God was but halfe perfecte as you speake of Gods worde and the infancie of Christes Churche in the primitiue state therof while it was yet without your additions The treatise therfore of this present lecture teacheth vs that we ought not to withdraw any thing from the commaundements of God nor adde thereto For if Iohn gaue iudgement on this writing If any sayth he shal adde to these things God shall adde to him the plagues that are written in this booke and if any man shall minishe of the wordes of this booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life howe muche more muste no man withdrawe from Gods commaundements This sayth S. Ambrose to all your vnwritten verities and loades of ceremonies all beyonde and many agaynst the worde and commaundement of god Therefore I may safely for al doctrine say with S. Aug. if it be his senteÌ„ce VVhatsoeuer ye heere alleaged out of the scriptures let that sauour well vnto you whatsoeuer is besides the scripture flye it least ye wander in a cloude Lâ—…t vs not make saythe he religion of oure owne fantasies for what truth soeuer it be it is better than all that we can deuise after our will who soeuer be the deuyser howe wyse howe holye howe greate soeuer he were We muste despise him as S. Augustine saythe on this versicle Effusus est contemptus super principes c. VVhye were they contemned bicause they declared an other thing who are contemned those that are accursed For whosoeuer shall declare any other thing than that ye haue receyued let him be accursed c. Are they Princes are they learned are they great are they precious stones VVhat wilte thou call them more are they Angels and yet if it were an Angel from heauen that should declare ought vnto you besides that ye haue receyued let hym be accursed And are your Priests or Pope more priuileged héerein than are the heauenly Angels if he be a Prince as he pretendeth by his crownes if he be learned as he sayth his brest is the closet of all learning thoughe indéede many Popes haue béene as simple Clerkes as euen the simplest minister in all Englande whose lacke of learning so often ye rayle vpoÌ„ if he were neuer so great as he calleth him selfe Pontificem maximum the greatest Byshop were he a precious stone him selfe as in his Pontificalibâ—…s he is all to be dashte with precious stones Yea were he an angell that came from heauen as he is but a man that came from earth yet for all this if your Pope make ceremonies and establish them for necessary doctrine of religion besides the word of God then is euen he all you that so maynteyne them before God accursed and so to be counted as accursed howe faste soeuer wyth Booke Bell and Candle he curse other that forsake him and his accursed ceremonies And haue not we then good cause to refuse them séeme they ueuer so plausible But as S. Augustine sayth of mans doctrine The saying of man seemeth to haue reason for it as the Papistes alleage many goodly reasons for them tyll it be layde to the diuine knowledge but when the lye that is mans doctrine omnis homâ—… mendax euery man is alyer shall approche to the truthe it is deuoured and perisheth euen as towe layde to the fyre And all the opinions of falshoode which now are called Idols bycause they be feigned and forged shall be vtterly wasted away And this is their verye destruction that as Gamaliell sayde they be not of God Demaunde of them this question for their doctrines An ex Deo sint an ex hominibus whether they be of God or of men and ye shall pose them as Chryst posed the Phariseis For euen as Ise melteth at the rayes of the cleare sunne so these ceremonies waste away and léese their estimation whersoeuer the word of God beginneth to take place and are maynteyned onely where the worde of God is kepte in hucker mucker and the people in ignoraunce beléeuing these ceremonies to be of as muche yea of muche more force than the worde of god And therfore as Eckius Piggiâ—…s Câ—…ingius Peresâ—…us Canus Fisher Petruâ—… a Sâ—… Cocleuâ—… Catharinus Hosius Alphonsus
all in you that he confessed to be so great and grieuous a sinne in him Now and there were no other place in the scripture to proue it sinne but euen this were not this plaine ynough that the Apostle sayth NesctebaÌ„ concupiscentiam esse peccatiâ—… nisi lex dixisset non concupisces I had not knowne coÌ„cupiscence to be sinne but that the law said thou shalt not lust Wherin he nameth it not onely sinne for that ye count no sufficient argument but say it is so named for that it commes of sinne and disposeth and inclines to sinne therefore is called improperly by the name of sin but the Apostle addeth a strong reason to proue it sinne in very déed bicause by the flat commaundement of God it is forbidden therefore it is a transgâ—…ession of Gods commaundement and displeasing God for otherwise God would not by his law forbid it Which expresse law against concupiscence when S. Paule regarded better than it appeareth you dothe then coÌ„fessed it to be sin which before he knew not by ignorance of the law Although your ignorance be of wilfull malice that will neither know Gods law nor your owne transgression of it nor all these euident confessions of the Apostle obiect S. Aug. against the Messalians to vs and yet are you both agreeing with the Messalians and flat agaynst S. August your selues For what could Saint August write more plaine than this Sicut coecitas cordis c. EueÌ„ as the blindnesse of tâ—…e hart is both sinne wherewith we beleue not in God and the punishment of sinne wherwith a prowde heaâ—…t is punished with worthie correction the cause of sinne when ought is committed by the errour of a blinde heart so concupiscence of the flesh against the which the good spirite doth lust is both sin bicause there is in it a disobedience against the rule of the mind and the punishment of sinne bicause it is giuen for the deseruings of the disobeyer and the cause of sinne by the defection of the consenter or the contagion of him that is borne In which wordes as he plainely speaketh both of the state of the birth before baptisme and of the consent defection and deseruings after baptisme so he maketh concupiscence not to be sinne it selfe onely but also the punishment and the cause of sinne Neither is S. August alone herein for S. Hierom doth not onely call it sinne but least ye shoulde dally about the name he sayth Habitans in sua carne peccatum hoc est vitia corporis desideria voluptatis c. But if my outwarde man do that he would not and worke that whiche he hateth hee sheweth the commaundement to bee good and that he worketh not that which is euill but sinne inhabiting in his flesh that is the vices of the bodie and desires of pleasure the whiche for the posteritie and ofspring is euen grafted in mennes bodyes Thus maketh he concupiscence not sinne inhabiting onely but euen verye vice it selfe engrafted in vs speaking not onely on himselfe but euen on Saint Paule also And are you better â—…ordâ—… all these What procéedeth this vpon but plaine arrogancie ioyned with obstinacy to conceale your shame and flatter your selues in your sinfull burning lusts which rather than ye would with humilitie acknowledge and confesse ye spare not so to exalt your selues that ye deface the glorie of God so to vaunte your pâ—…ra naturalia your frée will and merits that ye quite take away euen the death of Iesus Christ and to establishe your owne righteousnesse ye disdaine to be subiect to the righteousnesse of God and making vs beleue we had no sin at all while we were infants newly regenerate to deceyue our selues and to haue no more truth in vs than is in you Go now Master Stapleton and boast that we be Messalians or rather clere your selues of their Heresies besides that ye be not onely Messalians but Missalians or Massalians which is a great deale worser Heresie Your next obiection is of Images And bicause say you ye shall not say I suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and most notable persons of your auncestrie how say ye to the Emperors Philippicus Leo CoÌ„stantinus coÌ„demned with their adherents by the 7. generall CouÌ„cell at Nice that villained by defacing breaking and burning the Images of all the holy Hallowes of Christ Christs too If your guiltie conscience M. Stap. do misgiue you that ye haue hitherto charged vs falsly and haue suppressed concealed and obscured our true auncestours and in stead therof haue obiected Heretikes it were some token of grace and repentance in you that ye say yet now at the length ye will not suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and notable persons of our auncestrie Where ye aske vs what we say to these thrée Emperors Philippicus Leo Constantinus that ye say villained Images whatsoeuer we say to them Master Stapelton some good fellowe perhaps will say this to you that if they bée suche most notable persons ye might haue spared such villainous language except it be naturall to you to vse villaynes Rhetoricke on chiefe Princes and most notable personages But I will not meddle with your well nurtured termes onely I desire you as ye pretend not â—…o suppresie conceale nor obscure indeede the chiefe and most notable persons of our auncestrie whereby ye meane the auncient Emperors If ye will not in very déed how chaunce ye name but these thrée for taking away of Images why suppresse ye the names of the Emperors Ualens Theodosius that made a plaine decrée agaynst all maner of Imagâ—…rie of all the holy Hallowes of Christ as ye call them Christes to and yet your seuenth generall Councell condemned theÌ„ not yea your selfe as after shal appéere do highly coÌ„mend them What ment ye to suppresse the name of Carolus Magnus commended likewise highly euen by your selfe and yet he abolished all Images also Why name ye Philippicus Leo Constantinus onely and tell not of all the other Emperors before these after these euen til the time of Theodorus Lascaris that yelded to your Pope herein at Lions Councell therfore the Gréekes depriued and expelled him for his labour Syth then so many chief and most notable persons of the auncient Emperors of which your self graunt some to be as godly as notable being before that CouÌ„cell were not condemned by it being as ye say our auÌ„cestors herein are altogither quite suppressed concealed obscured is not this very partiall and vnfaithfull dealing in reiecting our honourable pedegree M. St But I see you will neuer leaue your lying Nowe where ye say these thrée Emperors were condemned by the seuenth generall Councell at Nice True in déede they were so euen as you condemned all Godly Princes at your last Trident Councell that abolishe your Idolatrie What maner a Councell it was and what maner of reasons they haue in it for the
Deuill afrayde of them the Diuell he is as soone M. Stapl. No no he delighteth in Idolatrie Excuse this Idolatrie that I haue shewed was committed to them and then tell vs he feareth them Which except ye caÌ„ do euen as he ruled the HeatheÌ„ Idols so that he ruled yours his very practises declared He feareth not deceipt iuggling knackes craftie coÌ„ueighaÌ„ces forgeries feigned miracles but rather is the ruler of them But many of your Images yea the most famous Images that could sweat frowne smile nod moue goe speake c. were wrought by such craftie legerdemaines as the vices and deuices of them haue since bene openly séene at the pulling downe of theÌ„ Which argueth that the Diuell feared them not but ruled them as he did the Heathens Idols Ninthly The Diuels mainteyned their Idols the same couet to throw downe our Images I answere this is in effect all one with the other For Quem â—…etuuni oderunt queÌ„ oderunt perisse expetunt VVhom they feare they hate whome they hate they wishe to perish But as is shewed he feared them not but delighted in theÌ„ Ergo he hated them not nor coneted to throw them downe but mainteyneth them with all his might and mayne with all his crafte and illusions and maketh such sturre against the worde of God and the setters forth thereof for them that neither the Priests of Baal made the like against the Prophets nor Alexander the Coppersmith against Paule and other Heathen Idolaters against the Christian martyrs as your Pope and you his Priests do against the Gaspel and the Protestants to mainteyne the worship of your Images And to say the truth ye haue greater losse by the decay of the worship of them than euer the Coppersmith which had gaines for making the Images of Diana had losse by S. Paule for speaking against them Infinite was the gaines that came toombling in by your Images And all this fat is in the fire by throwing them downe If then Images mainteyned such filthie lucre their maintenance must néedes be of the Diuell And God by his worde is the very ouerthrowe of them as he was before of the Heathen Idols Tenthly to be shorte their Idols were dedicated by Infidels to an Heathenish purpose our Images be dedicated to a verteouse intent Therefore our Images being so farre different from the heathenish Idols are iniuriously called Idols I answere First this common argument of good or verteouse intent is not sufficient for to make a difference herein Especially the Heathen euen in worshipping their Idols hauing likewise as good an intent and verteouse as téemed vnto them as your good verteouse intent séemeth vnto you They thought they did well and so do you this verteouse intent as it serueth you both so it serueth all Idolaters But you ought to make a distinctioÌ„ of good in déede good in apparance els ye are more vnskilfull than the Heathen that made a difference betwéene Reuera bonum that quod videtur bonum That that is good in deede and that that seemeth good This distinction herein ought you to haue made not stande on the intent which was in theÌ„ as good as yours as they thought for they purposed not to do ill but good though they did ill and not good And why bicause they did not order their purpose by Gods purpose yea by Gods commaundement not onely in the worship of Images which he statly forbiddeth but euen in the worship of God himselfe We must not doe that which séemeth good in our owne eyes but that which God hath commaunded wée shoulde do and in no poynt swarue therefrom If we doe swarue the heathens good intent will no more beare vs out than it did the heathen no more than it did Saule or Uza no more than it shal do those that Christ saith shall kil the Prophetes of God and thinke they do God good seruice All these are a like in good intent and vertuons purpose but not in good matter nor vertuous cause Wherein you fayling togither with them your intent maketh so little difference of your Images froÌ„ their Idols that it maketh them more alike And therefore the conclusion for any of these tenne poynts alleaged may well be inferred your Images are not iniuriously called Idols Thus much to answere one of your muttring Libels that ye scatter among the simple people whining that we slaunder you with the terme of Idols for Images By this little let them iudge whether we slaunder you or no for Idolaters and whether they be Idols or no and howe faint and faigned shiftes ye make to finde out difference betwene their Images and yours Wherein also ye would bleare the simple for who denieth but that there is a difference of the one from the other but not such as may make eyther the one or the other no Idoll If they were no such Idols they were as yll if not worse but were they not so yll yet yée proue not them no Idols for all this Well you haue spoken of the difference and nowe might I if I had not béene ouerlong already requite your tenne differences more than with twice tenne likenesses of your Images and theirs to proue them Idols both But you will say all this is an outroad neither properly your matter Be it so for once if you will although in déede it be not but is directly to your quarrell of Images Yet to draw nearer to your charge of Iulianus the Apostata for the Crosse. If ye affirme that in Iulianus time the Christians worshipped the Crosse then as he slaundered those Christians so doe you slaunder them Helene that ye say founde out the Crosse worshipped it not Epiphanius that saw the picture of Christ in a place proue to be worshipped rent it in péeces Cyrillus that aunswereth this slaunder of Iulianus obiecting to them that they worshipped the Crosse doth he graunt that they worshipped it He sayth no suche thing he onely mencioneth how they had it as a memoriall of Christs death and to moue them to thinke of mortifying themselues And where had they it in their Churches had they Roodlofts to set it in set they it on an aultar had it any sensing to it créeping knéeling capping crouching praying offering to it if there had bene any such matters we should by some of your side haue heard of it ere nowe No M. St. there was no such Idolatrie then as your Romish Church hath nowe farre passing the Idolatrie euen of the Emperor Iulianus He was an open enimie to Christ for his sake to his Crosse to all that was his but you are priuie enimies and hypocrites that vnder the pretence of friendship and honour as it were with Herodes pretensed worship Iudas kisse salute Christ his Crosse rob him of the price that he paid vpon the Crosse spoyle him of his glorie bereue him of his people Thus do you that
carnal sold vnder sinne bicause I wot not what I do For what I would do that I do not but what I hate that I do If I do now that which I would not I graunt to the law that it is good So then now it is not I that do it but sinne that dwelleth in me For I know that in me that is to say in my flesh dwelleth no good thing To will is present with me but I finde no meanes to performe that which is good For I do not that good thing which I would but that euil do I which I would not Finally if I do that which I would not then it is not I that do it but sinne that dwelleth in me doth it I finde then by the lawe that when I would do good euill is present with me I delight in the lawe of God concerning the inwarde man but I finde another lawe in my meÌ„bers rebelling against the lawe of my minde and subduing me vnto the law of sinne which is in my members O wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me froÌ„ this bodie of death I thanke God through Iesus Christ our Lorde So then I may selfe in my minde serue the lawe of God and in my flesh the lawe of sinne Lo M. St. this is all the will that S. Paule felt confessed to be in him selfe while he liued euen in respecte of the inward man But God wot this is farre from free will. If then the will of the Saincts of God be thus hindred by the flesh that it can not freely will nor worke what shall we thinke of the will of the fleshly man forsoth saithe S. Paule Animalis homo non percipit â—…a quae sunt spiritus Dei The fleshly man vnderstandeth not those things that are of the spirite of God for they are follie to him neither can he perceyue them bicause they are examined spiritually But what will hath man in that whereof he hath no perceyuing Yea is he not rather altogither vnwilling to that which séemeth follie to him and for this cause the flesh striueth and rebelleth against the spirite He hath therefore no will to any goodnesse at all Where are then those Pura naturalia the pure naturall qualities of inclination conuersion and wil in man of himselfe to moue God with all that you and your Schoolemen crake so much vppon The question here is this whereas our first parentes before their fall had in them selues free will to haue sinned or to haue not sinned and misusing them selues their free will to sinne lost them selues and their free will to haue not sinned also whether after this corruption of mans nature it hath yet free will will to good or not to sinne as it had before it fell To this question if ye had as I said mounted so high as the Apostle he would haue answered you that we were dead in sinne Cum mortui essetis in delictis peccatis When ye were dead in offences and sinnes but a dead thing hath no will at all When therefore we were dead to sinne we had no will at all to goodnesse He would haue answered you that we are not able of our selues to think any good thought at all but if we haue a will to any good thing we must néedes thinke some thought thereon we are not therefore of our selues sufficient to haue a will to any good thing And if we haue any good will this coÌ„meth not of our selues but of God not of old Adam but of new Adam it is not a naturall vertue of man but a supernaturall gifte of god Deus est enim qui operaturâ—…n vobis velle perficere pro bona voluntate It is God that worketh in you both to will to performe it according to his good will. If then it be Gods gift Quid gloriaris quasi non acceperis why boastest thou O proud Papist as though thou receiuedest it not of God but thou hadst it of thine owne to moue God as thou saist Ex congruo ex parte liberâ—… arbitâ—…ij of congruitie to deserue heauen for thy workes in consideration of thy free will. If ye had mounted thus high M. Stapl. you may sée how S. Paule woulde haue pulled downe this surmounting pride of yours But had ye sâ—…oonke by him neuer so frée and mounted vp to Christ he would haue tolde you in playne speach that ye were but thornes briers ill trées of your selues on which no grapes nor 〈◊〉 nor any good fruite can be gathered That ye were but flesh and that nothing but fleshe could come of fleshe and that flesh and bloud reuealeth not christ He would for your frée will say vnto you as he said to the craking Phariseis â–ª Uox ex patre Diabolo estis desideria patris vestrâ—… vultis facere You are of your father the Diuel and your will is to do the lusts of your father This is all the free will that he ascribeth to man of him selfe And if he haue any better will it is not but of him that saith Sine me nihil potestis facere without me ye can do nothing We can not do nor will ought that good is without him Yea we are before he giue vs a will thereto so vnwilling that we are euen drawne thereto Nemo venit ad me nisi pater meus traxerit eâ—…m No man coÌ„meth to me saith Christ vnlesse my father draw him Omnia traham ad meipsâ—… I will draw all things to me We came not theÌ„ of our own free will if we were drawne to him Ensample of this draught eueÌ„ in S. Paule himself I grauÌ„t our vnwillingnes is changed to an obedient willingnesse to a frée will also We are frée in respect of deliuerie froÌ„ the chaines of darknes bondage of sinne Sâ—… vâ—…s filiuâ—… liber auerit vere liberi erâ—…is If the sonne make youâ—… free then are ye free in deede but this is the fréedome of the spirit the spirit helpeth our infirmities which infirmities yet hinder the fréedome of this will euen in the Saincts of God as I noted in Sainct Paules complaint before Yea euen Christ our Sauiour who tooke our infirmities without sinne in his agonie to his Father sayde Non sicut ego volâ—… sed sicut tâ—… vis Not as I will but as thou wilt subduing his owne will for our ensample to his fathers will and will you wilfull Papistes crake of your free will But if ye let passe Christ also as ye vse to do and fetching a furder race of all mankinds mounting so highe as Adam the first man of all you should there haue founde in déede this your frée will. But there ye should haue séene it lost againe and in his loines all our free willes with all and him selfe and vs also Sauing that a second Adam hath founde vs quickened vs and made vs free againe of
tale with you Ye do wel to call your answere a tale for ye haue hitherto tolde a faire tale and a well told tale and therfore I pray ye M. Stap. tell on your tale till ye haue redde vs out this worthy chapter And sée that the residue of your tale be accustomable as yâ—… say to this ye haue hitherto tolde vs. The. 19. Diuision THe Bishop for that M. Feck with the Donatists refuseth the proues of the olde Testament â—…or Princes supreme gouernment ioyneth with Saint Aug. agaynst the Donatists and the Papists alleaging out of S. Augusâ—… many sentences first to proue this to be the verie dutie and speciall seruice of Princes vnto God to haue an especiall care diligence and ouersight to see Gods lawes and true Religion set forth and kept and to punish and remoue all things to the contrary Secondly to confute this refusall of the Donatists and Papists besides the foresayde proues and examples hée alleageth oâ—…te of Saint Augustine the examples of the King of Niniue of Darius of Nabuchodonozor and others prouing thereby that the Histories and testimonies cited out of the olde Testament are partly figures and partly Prophecies of the power dutie and seruice that Kings shoulde owe and performe in like sort to the furtherâ—…uce of Christes religion in the time of the newe Testament Master Stapletons aunswere to these testimonies is thréefolde First he laboureth to restraine all the testimonies of Saint Augustine onely to punishing of Heretikes Secondly he laboreth to proue that these testimonies make agaynst vs Thirdly he goeth about once againe by the Bishops illation on these testimonies to clere master Fecâ—…enham of the crime that the Bishop charged him with for refusing the examples of the olde testament The first part he parteth againe in thrée First he gathereth a contract and summe of all these testimonies to the which he yeldeth Secondly he sheweth that this was his olde and former opinion Thirdly he limitteth all the matter only to punishment And first of all he sayth â—…o now haue we mo testimonies out of Saint August to proue that for the which he hath alleaged many things out of S. Aug. already and the which no man denieth For what else proueth all this out of S. Aug. bothe nowe and before alleaged but that christian Princes ought to make lawes and constitutions euen as M. Horne him selfe expoundeth it fol. 12. b for the furtherance of Christes religion Are ye afrayde M. Stap. to be oppressed with the number of testimonies What man and your cause be good the mo the merier they say but bicause your cause is noughte the fewer belike with you the better fare althoughe by your leaue ye make a pretie lye in the beginning to say that he alleageth these testimonies of S. Augustine to proue that for the whiche he hathe alleaged many thinges out of S. Augustine already For the abouesayde allegations were directed to detecte the Donatistes in refusing the Princes authoritie and the examples of the olde Testament and to sée howe like to theirs your dealings to Princes and your refusall of the same examples were But these testimonies present are to confirme the Princes authoritie and the examples of the olde Testament for Princes agaynst both Donatistes and Papistes deniall of their authoritie and refusall of thexamples But let this passe sithe whatsoeuer those or these be ye say no man denieth them For what else say you proueth all this out of S. Aug. bothe nowe and before alleaged but that Princes oughte to make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion this thing no Catholike deâ—…ieth Meane ye playne dealing and speake ye in good sadnesse M St dothe no Catholike denie nor no man denie that Princes may make lawes for the furtheraunce of Christes religion How chaunce then you runne from the obedience of your own naturall most gratious soueraigne that maketh so godly lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion denie that she hath authoritie to make any lawes and coÌ„stitutions in that behalfe but that she must onely be obedient to your Popes and his Priests lawes and constitutions And for this matter ye compile the moste of your works And now ye say no maÌ„ nor catholike denieth it By this rule you be no catholikes that ye crake so much of Nay ye be no men neither for it is moste euident that ye chiefly denie this thing And your selfe in your Preface make it to be the moste principall controuersie of all other and most to be denied If ye be a true Catholike and a true man deale playnly For no doubt ye meane that there is a padde in the sâ—…rawe Ye haue a knacke in your budget whereby ye thinke ye may well graunt this whiche for shame in open wordes ye dare not denie but graunte And yet ye thinke we shall haue no more holde by your graunte than he that holdeth a wette Ele by the tayle For in the ende ye come in with suche a qualification as all the worlde may perceiue a flatte deniall thereof And yet at the firste blushe no man woulde thinke but that the matter betwéene vs and you were full concluded We say all the authoritie that the Quéene hath is onely to this ende in effecte that she oughte thereby to make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion This say you no man denieth but that they oughte to make lawes and coÌ„stitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion Héere you agrée with vs to a simple playne dealing mans iudgement Ye are become a Protestant I hope But what will your good masters at Louaine and your friendes with vs say to you when they shall heare of this graunt they wil affirme with one voyce that they vtterly denie it and aske ye howe ye haue defended master Feckenhams quarell Tushe will you say to them holde your peace sirs all is wel inough there was no remedie but I must néedes grasit to S. Augustines words they were so manyfest and so pressed that there was no helpe but to graunt it yea and to beare downe the matter that no bodie denied it But I haue such a distinction for it that they shal be neuer the néere for all my graunt Did ye neuer réede may ye say to them the practise of Arrius that wheÌ„ he was so vrged that he could not denie it he yelded to the true beleuers and wrote also as I haue done deposing that he beléeued as he had written but when his coÌ„plices herefore exposâ—…ulated with him he declared to them that for all the shewe of his grant in wordes in déede he had graunted nothing He saide he beleeued as he had written and looke here quoth he pulling a paper out of his bosome contayning his Heresie this is the writing to the which I referred my wordes And so may you say to your friendes M. Stap. true in
Cesar then Emperour and stretch no furder If it determine nothing but money If it inferre no necessitie or dutie but only giue licence how then did these Fathers alleage vrge this sentence against these Princes and how do you alleage them against the Bishop do ye not sée how ye speake against your selfe but I forbeare you till ye come to your appointed place Although furder here I might admonish you since ye reherse here no wordes of those authours but referrâ—… yourselfe to another fitter occasion not to stande dalying in so often preuentions and rehersalls and all to no purpose but onely to encrease your volume Much lesse to triumphe therevppon till ye haue sette downe some proufe either of them or of other to confute the Bishop for els ye do but triumphe before the victorie and such commonly in the ende do lâ—…se the victorie For hitherto ye haue alleaged nothing against the Bishops allegation and yet say you This ill happe hath M. Horne euen with his first authoritie of the newe Testament extraordinarily and impertinently I can not tel how chopped in to cause the leaues and his booke and his lies to make the more muster and shewe This was an happie happe for you M. Sta. to ruffle in your Rhetorike that it happed the B. to haue so ill an hap by alleaging this sentence for hereby ye haue shewed first your truth honestie That where the Bishop citeth two plaine sentences out of the new Testament together to coÌ„firme his assertioÌ„ you say he alleageth here but one Where the Bishop citeth this of Cesar the later of the twaine you quite omitting the other say this is his first authoritie of the new Testament Good happe haue you M. St. to haue chopped in two lies so round togither to make the more muster of lies in your booke but happie man happy dole they say With the like happinesse haue ye founde out this grammar rule that Reddite is ye may giue But chiefly this happie new Diuinitie to refuse your Princes lawfull authoritie that necessarily by force of any wordes ye be not bounde to pay so much as any tribute to your Prince All these happes was it your hap first to finde out And therefore all your side haue good cause M. St. to count ye an happie man. But M. St. not content withall these happes stormeth yet against the Bishop for adioyning these wordes Admonishing not withstanding all Princes people that Cesars authoritie is not infinite or without limites for such authoritie belongeth only to the King of all Kinges but bounded and circumscribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde This M. St. calleth a foolish and a friuolous admonition without any cause or ground grounded on M. Hornes fantasticall imagination and not vpon Christ as he surmiseth Is this M. Stapl. a foolish and a friuolous admonition a groundlesse fantasticall Imagination to say that the Princes authoritie is not infinite but circuÌ„scribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde what would ye haue had the Bishop to say that it had bene infinite without any boundes such as onely belongeth to God but how would ye then haue triumphed at the matter and in déede ye had had good cause Where now ye haue none but that ye be disposed to quarel at euery thing be it neuer so well spoken Neyther was it without cause or grounde syth the wordes that immediately are ioyned so togither make an expresse limitation that the former part of the sentence is bounded with the later parte that the Prince ought to haue such due belonging to him as hindreth not the yéelding of that due that belongeth to god And therfore the Bishops admonition was not onely godly and true but grounded on Christes wordes yea and comprehendeth them also and was no lesse necessarie for the Bishop to haue vsed both for that it maketh a distinction of that supremacie that your Pope chalengeth intruding and incroching on those things that are only due to God and not suffring his authoritie to be limitted by Gods worde and woulde rule Gods worde and go beyonde the boundes thereof And also for that to the ignorant simple of your side ye slauÌ„der the B. and other setters forth of gods word yea the Quéenes maiestie her self to take on hir and we to yelde to hir such an absolute and indefinite authoritie as taketh from god from his word from his ministers that authoritie that belongeth vnto them Which syth it is your vsuall lying and malicious slaunder to sturre offence to the simple to bring the Prince and Preachers in obloquie and the authoritie in suspition and hatred it was not a friuolous fantasticall imagination as your fantasticall braine imagineth but a most necessarie cause for the B. to haue giuen that admonition to shew what authority we allow in the prince the Prince taketh on hir agréeable to that that Christ coÌ„mauÌ„ds to render Nay say you it is not grouÌ„ded vpoÌ„ christ VVho willeth that to be giuen to Caesar that is Caesars and to God that is Gods but determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Caesar but onely payment of money And yet if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded it doth not determine that neither thoughe the thing it selfe be most true Doth this M. St. determine nothing but money yea not so much as that neither whie what doth it determine then nothing say you if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded In déede M. Stap. if we considered as you haue sayde it would be a very meane determination of any thing And yet if you would better haue considered euen that you haue sayde ye shoulde haue found this your saying to haue bene sayde without your considering cappe For then ye tolde vs that thoughe it forced not that we ought to pay tribute yet it forced that we might pay it which inforceth yet somewhat more than bare nothing And euen héere present ye say that Christ determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Cesar but onely paymeÌ„t of money And by by ye say it doth not determine that neither And so ye tell vs it dothe determine nothing and yet it determines something and that something it doth determine and yet it dothe not determine it If we consider it as you haue sayde it howe would ye haue vs consider it master Stap. when your selfe so inconsiderately haue saide suche contradictions Besides this as repugnant as the rest before ye sayd his wordes imported onely that they might which is not to will a thing to be done but to permit or licence that a thing may be done or may not be done And héere ye playnly say he willeth that to be giuen to Cesar that is Cesars and to God that is Gods. But Christes willing a thing to be done is his commaundement that it be done and not a licence that may or may not
worlds end and neuer to be altered added vnto or taken from all suche nouelties besides or contrarie to the olde and former fayth hathe the Q. highnes god be thaÌ„ked therfore remoued as CoÌ„staÌ„tine did and all Princes ought to do and hath called vs agayne to the religion of the most holy lawe as a most diligent defender of the olde and former fayth from the Popishe corruptions in faith that haue sprong vp since And as ConstaÌ„tine deposed such Bishops as obstinately mainteined those later errours and not the olde and former fayth except on their repentance submission they were by him restored so hath our most gracious souer aigne deposed such Popish Bishops and Pastors as obstinately defended and mainteined their later errours Wherin she hath shewed hir selfe a moste diligent defender and recouerer of the oldest and formost fayth of the Christians Thus as hir doings swarue not héerein from Constantines â–ª as you pretende so hath she no lesse right and authoritie in hir dominion than Constantine had in his and all Princes ought to haue in theirs béeing all as S. Paule sayth Gods ministers in this behalfe To the which senteÌ„ce of S. Paule with Chrysostomes and Eusebius iudgement theron full coldely ye say If S. Paule call the ciuill Magistrate a minister bicause through feare he constrayneth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrine as by your saying S. Chrysostome construeth it we are well content therwith Now well ye be content therwith as your obstinate refusal of this the Princes ministerie the stormes counterblastes ye rayse agaynÌ„st it do declare so also that ye be not halfe pleased with Chrysostomes construction theron how well soeuer ye would seeme to be contented appeareth in this your pinching wringing of Chrysostomes sentence by the Bishop cited For neither the Bishop cited him as you say he doth neither you cite Chrysostome fully nor rightly whiche argueth ye are not very well contented therwith Chrysostome sheweth not that the prince is called the minister of God onely bicause through feare he constrayneth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrine but also he speaketh of honoring coÌ„mending or aduancing whereby he prepareth mens mindes to be the more apte to receyue the worde of doctrine Which phrase of Chrysostome the worde of doctrine ye could not also abide least ye should haue ouerturned thereby all those points of doctrine that are not contained in the worde of God whiche neuerthelesse ye terme godly doctrine though God in his worde hath not allowed the same but are the traditions and commaundements of men And thus making what doctrine it liketh you godly or vngodly and reseruing to your selues the authoritie thereof ye say ye are well content that the ciuill magistrate be a minister bicause through feare he coÌ„strayneth that is to say ye make him serue your turne to hang to draw to burne to racke to banish to emprison and to force men to embrace what doctrine you appoint and tell him is godly doctrine This ye be well content withall This ye call his best ministerie And that this is his setting forth of Christes true religion that this is his preaching the same with his imperiall decrees and proclamations But if once he take vppon him carefully to examine by the worde of God whether those doctrines and that religion that ye pretende to be godly and the old and former faith be so or no and finding them cleane contrary he remoue them by force coÌ„straine his subiects to embrace the doctrine of Gods worde and so prepare them to receyue the truth by punishing the wicked and obstinate seducers by placing in their roumes and honoring the godly setters forth of the worde of doctrine then in no case ye are well content therewith but raile at and sclaunder the doings of such a Prince and deuise al the trecheries that ye can to his destruction Neuerthelesse would ye well consider what here once againe M. St. you haue grauÌ„ted That the best ministerie and seruice of the great Constantine rested in the setting foorth of Gods true religion Then if the setting forth thereof be the Princes best ministery and seruice may he not Iudge of his best ministery and seruice yea how shall he set forth that whereof he shall not iudge Of other partes of his ministerie he may iudge and may he not Iudge of his beste ministerie are the setting forth of ciuill lawes properly a part of his office bicause they be a good parte of his ministerie is the setting forth of true religion being the best parte as ye are content to call it no parte at al thereof or not rather if it be his best ministerie it is the best part of his office also And seing the setting forth of true religioÌ„ is not properly a ciuill matter but distinct therefrom then doth the beste parte of the Princes office consist in the ministerie of an ecclesiasticall matter and that of such an one as containes the ouersight of all other matters ecclesiasticall For as in true religion they are or ought to be all coÌ„teyned so in the setting forth of theÌ„ is coÌ„tained their ouersight direction For how can he well set forth any thing that he ouerâ—…eeth not nor directeth which ouersight and direction being the supreme gouernment that the Quéenes Maiestie only claymeth and we ascribe vnto hir how haue ye not graunted withall M. St. that this supremacie ouer all causes Ecclesiasticall aboue all other things belongeth to hir Maiestie But for all this that he him selfe hath graunted or the Bishop hath inferred saith M. Stapleton Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor al the residue which ye reherse of this CoÌ„stantine with whose doings ye furnish hereafter sixe full leaues can importe this superioritie as we shall there more at large specifie This is alleaged out of place ye say M. St. for Constantine But who seeth not that this is but a pelting quarrel the Bishop on good consideration order declareth both by Chrysostoms exposition Constantines example how this sentence of S. Paule that the Prince is Gods minister stretcheth not only to his ministerie in ciuil but also in causes Ecclesiastical But this is alleaged out of place â–ª say you It is no meruaile M. Stap. if it séeme out of place with you for all is alleaged out of place that hauing any place displaceth your assertion And thus pretending it is alleaged out of place ye passe it ouer post vs offâ—…il an other time when ye wil declare it more at large ad Calendas Graecas when ye shall haue more leasure But sir had ye any leasure at this time ye might better haue satisfied your Reader to haue fully answered here to that is here obiected and not thus to dallie off the matter till another time But there is no remedie the reader must haue pacieÌ„ce and waite your furder leasure Neuerthelesse when ye shall M. St. vouchsafe to méete
to content you Io. Langus in his Preface Dedicatorie to Ferdinandus hath these wordes Uirtutes vero Maiestatis â—…uae c. I purpose not here to rehearse otherwyse of your Maiestyes vertues both for that I haue to small habilitie for so great a woorke and better it were not to speake at all of a matter of weight than not to bee able to prosecute it as the worthinesse of it requireth And also for that Nicephorus in hys Preface when hee consecrateth the trauayle of thys Hystorie to Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure of Constantinople for so beeing mooued by coniectures I take him to bee he liuely expresseth as it were in a Glasse the moste of those selfe same vertues Besides this where Nicephorus in the beginning of his Preface Dedicatorie doth call the Emperour to whome he dedicateth his woorke Pricipem omnium Christianissimum atque humanissimum A moste Christian and moste curteous Prince Herevppon Iohn Langus maketh his first marginall note Uidetur is esse Emanuel Paleologus This Prince seemeth to bee Emanuell Paleologus And after that in the same Preface he addeth another note thereof Emanuels nato praedones Turcae Constantinopoli eiecti sunt VVhen Emanuell was borne the Turkishe spoylers were driuen out of Constantinople And againe Imperatoris Emanuelis infantiâ—… The infancie of Emanuell the Emperour Lykewise another Successor eius in Imperio Constantinopolitanâ—… Emanuel filius His successour in the Empire of Constantinople was Emanuell his sonne Another Diuini numinis erga Emanuelem gratia fauor The grace and fauour of the diuine Godheade towardes Emanuell Another Tribâ—…untur Emanueli praecipue Imperatoriae virtutes The chiefe vertues of an Emperour are ascribed to Emanuell Another PalatiuÌ„ Impâ—…riale ib idem ab Emanuele constructum The Emperours Palayce was buylt by Emanuell Another Eam videlicet Constantinopolim per Emanuelem Christiani retinuerunt The Christians helde it that is to say Constantinople by Emanuell And yet another Dedicatur Ecclesiastica hystoria Imperatori Emanueli veluti corona capiti cius imponitur The Ecclesiasticall hystorie is dedicated to the Emperour Emanuell and is set on his head as it were a crowne Nowe master Stapleton might not all these notes vpon the Preface made by Langus a learned Papist moue the Bishoppe to name the Emperour Emanuell Paleologus and cleare the Bishoppe of vnfaythfull dealing and raysing of mystes And if he were deceyued he was deceyued for that he gaue to muche credite to suche famous Papistes as Lazius and Langus the Doctours of the faculties of Sorbone and of Louayne that take vppon them Censoriam potestatem To haue the authoritie of Censors in allowing and approouing the moste of all youre Bookes If therefore ye blame the Bishoppe for this except ye will shewe your selfe ouer partiall ye must needes condemne all these for the same Nowe master Stapleton hauing as he thinketh about this name gotten a great triumphe pretending to driue awaye the myste and cleare the coastes doing nothing him selfe but trampling in the duste and raysing vaine smokes aboute bare names letting the matter alone vnaunswered the more to dimme the Readers eyes telleth vs howe this Andronicus the elder sonne to Michaell after hys fathers death summoned a Councell of the Gretians wherein hee and they anulled and reuoked that hys Father had done at the Councell at Lions namelye concerning the proceeding of the holy Ghoste and for the whiche Nicephorus Maister Hornes Authour beeing also carryed awaye wyth the common errour as with an huge raging tempest dothe so highly aduaunce this Andronicus And so withall ye see vppon howe good a man and vpon howe good a cause master Horne hath buylded his newe supremacie to plucke downe the Popes olde supremacie For the infringing whereof the wicked working of wretched Heretikes is with him here and else where as we shall in place conuenient shew a goodly and a godly President as it is also with maister lewell for to mainteyne the verye same quarrell as I haue at large in my returne agaynst hys fourth article declared What yée haue there declared at large or at briefe Master Stapleton is not our matter nor I haue it to sée and I recke not to looke for I déeme it by this If I iudge amisse GOD forgiue me Onely herein all the worlde maye sée what a iollie bragger ye bée Ye are euer telling vs of youre Forâ—…resle youre Translations your Replies your turnes and returnes besydes thys your Counterblast nothing muste bée forgotten of all your clerkly Pamphletes If yée wante good neighbours ye will not spare to commende them to vs your selfe As for mée I will for this once returne your returne emptie to your selfe and aunswere onelye your presente quarrels The effecte whereof is to deface the Bishops allegation as grounded vppon the doyngs of an Heretike and auouched oute of the sayings of an erronious authour And to this purpose first ye threape vpon the Reader the Prince to haue beene Andromens the elder and not Emanuell And yet for all ye woulde make it so cleare a case ye sée the Doctours doubt as they say and all your owne Doctours and that the chiefe in iudgement Secondly ye woulde make the facte and doings that are commended by Nicephorus in this Emperour to be about the anulling and reuoking of that Michaell had done at the Councell of Lions namely concerning the procéeding of the holy ghost wheras all your Doctors abouesaid name it chiefly to be for expelling of the Turkes and preseruing of the Christians in Constantinople besides his other vertues For the which cause not onely Nicephorus so highlye commendeth him but also Lazius Langus and all your foresayde Sorbonistes and Louanians And yet you to make the Emparor and the matter odious say that it was the denying of the proceeding of the holy ghost for the which Niceph. doth so highly aduaunce this Andronicus Wherein as ye slaunder them both so thirdly doe ye great wrong to Nicephorus to slaunder him with so great an hereste and saye that he was caried away with the common error as with an huge raging tempest But I doubt it will rather séene M. Stapleton your selfe were caried awaye with so huge a raging tempest eyther of the heate of some cholericke passion or some melancholicke enuie so cankered against the Bishop and the truth of his cause that it maketh you freat and rage euen against Nicephorus also For and ye were not caried away in the huge raging tempest of such a sustian fume a man might then be the bolder to pull you by the sléeâ—…e and gently demaunde if ye finde any thing in this Nicephorus wherefore ye shoulde so sore chalenge him of this heresie or wherefore he shoulde so highly commende this Emperour for this heresie I thinke ye woulde be better aduised and mollifie this sharpe chalenge of heresie in Nicephorus Many superstitions and fabulous tales there be found of manye thinges in Nicephorus I graunt but for my owne part I finde not
that any euer noted him of heresie in this point And I thinke my opinion therein to be more true than yours for proofe whereof I will be reported by such witnesses as I thinke you will not except against euen by your Colledge of Diâ—…es in Louaine Who affirme in their censure vpon this authour that Pâ—…a solum religiosa com â—…endat c. Nicephorus coÌ„mendeth only godly and religious things Nicephoâ—… historia ecclesiaâ—…â—…yois mandâ—… c. not only the ecclesiastical historie of faith and religion may be printed but with much and publike profite of the Church This coulde not haue bene true but an euident false lie if that the author as you saye had so highly aduaunced the Emperour for restoring and maintaining of that heresie Moreouer in the verie title of the boke priuileged by the Emperour Ferdinand he is entituled with this Epithete scriptor verè catholicus â–ª a writer Catholike indeede and so likewise by that name of a Catholike writer he is highly commeÌ„ded to the Emperor Ferdinande both by Lazius a catholike and Langus a catholike as you accept the name of catholike who traÌ„slated him out of Greke into Latine at the said Emperors commaundemeÌ„t Who also in plain speach to the Emperor affirmeth Volumen Nicephori de vera synceraque pietate conscriptum esse the volume of Nicephorus is writteÌ„ eueÌ„ of true sincere godlines But what néede we cite all these against you when that herein ye coÌ„troll your self in your fourth boke of this counterblast for although ye there saye he is no Papist nor a Latine but a Grecian infected also with their schisme yet notwithstaÌ„ding ye grauÌ„t he is in al other things catholike thus ye mollifie the matter with the name of scisme dally with Nicephor there which is yet somewhat gentler than to make him an heretike an high aduancer of heresies as here ye do And there yée promised to stande to his arbitrement about you Popes praises why then so storme ye at him here for his iudgement in the Princes praises But still I sée we must beare with you so must al your doctors especially sith ye be here caried awaye in so huge a raging tempest of your furie against the allegations of Nicephorus here cited by the B. And good cause ye had to kick and winch thereat for they rub ye a litle on the gall and therefore you not onely slaunder Nicephorus being the author but fourthly also and wherevpon you chiefly stande most 〈◊〉 ye reuile the Emperour calling his doinges wicked working and his person a wretched heretike whom notwithstanding this your railing not onely Nicephorus commendeth for a most godly Prince but also LaÌ„gus in his owne preface and his other notes to the Preface of Nicephorus giuing him as great a praise saying he was an Emperour flourishing in all vertues and many ornamentes Againe An Emperour begotten by the verye prouidence of God. Againe Godlynesse and religion was from the beginning of his Empire his greatest care And that to him were giuen the chiefest vertues of an Emperour â–ª Againe In this Emperour being absolute almost in all vertues and ornamentes is portrayed apaterne of a most excellent Prince Yea that he was another Noe another Moses Againe This was the Emperours chiefe prayse that he attayned all the whole vertues of the best auncient Princes And that the Emperours godlynesse and religion is commended chiefly among his other vertues Thus doth your catholike LaÌ„gus in his notes vpoÌ„ Nicephor preface set him out coÌ„trary to that you say was a wicked worker and wretched heretike But wherto in the end do you so reuile this emperor forsoth euen to this end by him not only to deface the B. allegation but also to dashe dawne the Princes supreme gouernment as though it consisted altogither or chiefly herevpon For so you make your conclusion of this part saying And thus withall ye see vpon how good amaÌ„ vpon how good a cause M. Horne buildeth his new supremacie to plucke downe the Popes old supremacie As for the newnesse of this supremacie and likewise the oldnesse of your Popes supremacie is nowe M. Stapleton no coÌ„uenient place to discusse it hath partly ben touched before shal God willing be examined more herafter In the mean seasoÌ„ good leaue haue ye to crake of old vpbraid new at your pleasure so long as you bring no new but old rotteÌ„ proues therof though here ye alledge neither new nor old at al you wil neuer I perceiue leaue your old fashioÌ„s ye threap on the B. that he buildeth this supremacy on this emperor No M. St. the B. buildeth on no such grouÌ„ds but on the word of god It is you that build the Popes supremacie on meÌ„s donatioÌ„s the most of your Popish doctrines traditioÌ„s of meÌ„s inueÌ„tioÌ„s The grounde of the Bishops argument as ye haue hearde was out of Gods worde that the Prince is Gods minister only he shewed it out of S. Augustine and Chrysostome and exemplified it by the example of Constantine wherein this ministerie doth chiefly consist With whome sith Nicephorus doth so agrée in the description of a Princes chiefe ministerie were Nicephorus otherwise an heretike or were he not in this he sheweth himselfe none and were it Andronicus or Emanuell and were he an hereticke in that point or were he sounde the Bishop medleth not withall nor groundeth or buildeth vpon him Onely he setteth forth Nicephorê° iudgemeÌ„t either what this Prince was or what he ought to be And proueth the the things which he commeÌ„deth him for whether he deserued such commendation or no let other examine are the principall pointes of a Princes chiefe ministerie And what hath the B. done here that your Catholike Langus doth not commending this Emperor to Ferdinandus likening Ferdinandus vnto him saying of him that either he was Sicut â—…um c. Such another as our historier depainteth him out in his ornaments in the moste part of all vertue to bee worshipped most like your Maiestie or else in the person of him declaring that he ought to be such an one as he described which is the maner of some Philosophers and also of Historiographers composing orations and bookes of great Princes he hath confirmed so many and so great ornamentes of your Maiestie foreseeing as it were euen then in his minde that his worke hereafter being turned into Latine shoulde at length be published vnder that Princes name whom he in Greke had most truly adorned with his prayse If it were lawful thus for your Langus to apply these Emperors prayses to the Emperor Ferdinand may not the Bishop apply them in general as a paterne of all good Princes duties and therfore where ye scoffe at this calling it in scorne a goodly and godly president setting your moâ—…kes aside I maye well aunswere with Langus whatsoeuer the Emperours iudgement or the Emperours life were or the author also of these
holy ghost that ye terme with an vnclean an impure mouth pure religion were in their chiefe citie of Constantinople in the time of Constantinus sonne to Iohn nephew to Andronicus your Emanuels father euen about VVhitfontide at which time the Catholike Church in true and syncere fayth concerning the holye ghost keepeth a solemne festiuall day of the holy ghost sodenlye by the wicked Turkes besieged and shortly after the Citie and the whole Greeke Empire came into the Turkes handes and possession VVherein God seemeth as before to the Iewes so afterwardes to the Grecians as it were with pointing and notifying it with his finger to shew and to notifie vnto all the worlde the cause of the finall destruction aswell of the one as of the other people What is all this to the purpose M. Stapleton what maketh this against the Bishoppes matter or to further yours except to lengthen your tale although it séemeth that your tale is false neyther you agrée with your selfe therein it is false bicause at that time the great Turke besieged and wonne the Empire of Gréece the Grecians had forsaken this heresie yea and that more is acknowledged the Popes supremacie wherein the question lyeth whether in so doing they fell into another or no for after their agréement at Lions councell by Michaell Paleologus and their reuolt agayne vnder Andronicus the elder Iohn the sonne of Emanuell nephewe to Andronicus the yonger whom before ye mentioned came to the councell at Florence that was called in spits of Basill councell and agréed with Pope Eugenius whome Basill Councell had deposed and so continued in agréement with the Pope till in Constantinus reigne brother to this Iohn the Turke besieged and ouercame them And so your tale is false that say they rested in this opinion till their captiuitie Whereas a good while before they had quite forsaken it after they fully vnderstoode the Latines opinion theron which before they did not Secondly ye agrée not with your owne tale for both in your Preface and hereafter in many places ye ascribe the captiuitie of them chiefly to their not acknowledging of the Pope and so doth Uolaterane which is as false as the other For at that time they were fully agréed with him And here as one that had forgotten his former tale you ascribe the chiefe cause of their captiuitie to the heresie against the holy ghost and so make your proportion betwéene the Iewes bondage at Easter and theirs at Whitsontide at what time is celebrated the solemne feast of the holy ghost And thereon ye take vppon you as though ye were of Gods secrete counsayle to tell vs howe God poynted out the matter wyth hys finger But where to is all this so farre fetched about how is it brought into the purpose For M. St. will haue nothing here that is nedelesse and farre from the matter forsooth this must be presupposed that the Grecians are the B â–ª dearlings â–ª and that the Bishop is of the same opinion bicause he alleged Nicephorus as is before said And her vpon he maketh his marginall note a good aduert sement for M. Horne to consider the cause of the destruction of Constantinople Where by this rule he may saye it is a good note for Langus for Lazius for the Sorbonistes of Paris for his owne Doctors and good maisters at Louaine where he professeth himselfe a student in Diuinitie to beware the same for they haue commended Nicephorus to all the worlde and they allowe his doctrine for pure religion in all pointes not excepting this and therforeal the Papists be belike the Grecians dearlings and denie the proceeding of the holye ghost from the father and the sonne so is it a fitter admonition for the Popish catholikes than for the B. or any other Protestant whose faith in this point and all other concerning the holy ghost the Papistes can not blemish And yet by your leaue M. St. the Papistes be not very sounde in all pointes concerning the holy ghost as I shall shewe you further when you require the same and therefore they had more néede of the twayne to beware of this ensample But since M. Stapl. will so faine haue this cause considered of the Grecians captiuitie I graunt him this their errour might worthily be noted a sufficient cause or any oter errour or naughtinesse of life might well deserue the heauy hande of God and the scourge of such a tyrant as the Turke But whatsoeuer they or we to whome God be mercifull at Gods handes doe deserue not entering into Gods iudgement but speaking of men the most likely and chiefest cause of this Empires decay is euen the verye Pope him selfe his ambitious treacherie first spoyled and diuided the Empire into twaine and made all the West part forsake their sworne obedience And hath also so spoyled this part of the Empyre in the west that besides the bare title of the Empire of Rome the Emperour God wote hath little or nothing the Pope in effect hath all And where the Emperor of Rome had wont to be Lorde to the Bishop of Rome and to other Bishops besides The Bishop of Rome is nowe Lorde to the Emperour of Rome and to all other Princes besides and to attaine to his triple diademe ouer all Princes he hath neuer ceased to stirre and moue such garboyles as all Christendome hath lost onely the Pope hath woon therby and the barbarous nations haue ouerrunne all Europe Asia and Affricke No maruayle then if at the length Christian Princes powers being diuided and weakened with continuall warre and chiefly set on or maintained by the Pope especially against the Grecians the Turks at the last haue ouercome the Empire being destitute of forrein ayde and of themselues giuen to wanton effeminatenesse Although thus much I may iustly note they euer well ynough defended and maintained them selues till they acknowledged obedience to the Pope who was the first cause of their ruine Which done they neuer throue after but were in short time besieged cleanâ—… ouercome When they had once giuen their soules captiue to the tirannie of the Pope their bodies not long after became thrall to the slauerie of the Turke Which séemeth rather to be Gods iust plague vnto them wherein to vse your owne wordes as it were with pointing and notifying with his finger he sheweth to all the worlde to beware of these two aduersaries the spirituall enimie the Pope and the bodilie enimie the Turke Thus M. Stapleton your néedlesse admonition toucheth your selfe and your Pope nearer than ye were a wist Neuerthelesse not so content making as though you had as in déede ye haue ouershotte your selfe you pretende to drawe nearer home But what speake I of Greece say you wee neede not to run to so farre yeares or countries the case toucheth vs much nearer the Realme of Boheme and of late yeares of Fraunce and Scotlande the noble Countrie of Germanie with some other that I
the truth in this poynt and in so manie other Where in yée shew your selfe not onely discontented subiectes but in heart verie rebellions nor repining onely with discontented stomackes but with open sayings writings and other seditions attemptes agaynst the obedience ye owe to our gracious Prince and Countrey Ye call hir gracious but God defende hir gracious person from your vngracious practises and from all such Iudas kisses of hollow hearted flattring Papistes For howe vngraclously ye minde hir highnesse and your Countrey all that heare your sugred wordesnowe speaking as though that butter would not melt in your mealy mouth and read your common place withall collected of your most shamefull and notorious slaunders that ye rayse vpon so gracious a prince and your natiue Countrey would meruayle how that dubble tongue of yours coulde speake such contraries But ye are a Merchant for the nonce ye studie Louaine diuinitie that is to say to beare fire in one hand water in another to laugh in ones face and strike him with a dagger to the heart as Ioab did with Abner and Amasa But let vs sée how trimly ye cloke this geare I dare say neuer a Frier in Louaine can play the sinoother hypocrite For besides say you that we ought absolutely to obey God more than man and preferre the truth which our sauiour him selfe protesteth to be encouraging all the faythfull to professe the truth and giuing them to wit that in defending that they defende Christ himselfe before all other worldly respectes whatsoeuer What a godly pretence of zeale is here to God were it not for pure loue they heare to God master Stapleton promiseth for them as theyr spokes man they would obey their Prince Nowe surely this séemeth to procéede of an holy zeale But what is that they meane here by this absolute obedience to God God may be absolutely obeyed and the Prince also next to God conditionally be obeyed as the chiefe setter foorth of Gods absolute obedience God in his holie worde neuer spake any thing against obedience to the Prince whereby any Hypocrite might pretende a scruple of disobeying God if next vnder God he obeyed his Prince but God in his worde commaundeth vs so to obey him What meane they then to alleage God for theyr disobedience Forsooth here is a mystery ye must vnderstande by God the Pope for so he is called Dominus deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope ▪ and their obedience to the Prince herein is flatte agaynst this Gods obedience And bicause master Stapleton and his fellowes are priests of this Gods making they must therefore disobey theyr Prince And this is the very matter So Thomas Becked died for Gods cause and what was that forsooth the franchisies of the Popes Church For all that is for the Pope and Popery and the Popish priests honours is only for God for Christ and for the truth when it is for the Deuill as soone as indéede it is for him the Authour of all such hypocriticall disobedience and for their owne filthie lucre But God is a good God he must beare the name of all ▪ The Papistes being thus by theyr Attourney master Stapleton excused of theyr Disobedience least this shoulde not be thought sufficient There is yet behinde one other proper waye of excusing themselues and that is to fall in accusing the Bishop that therby the papists may be thought the more excusable Beside all this I say sayth master Stapleton whosoeuer will but indifferently consider the matter shall see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Queenes Maiesties gouernment by the statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembing silence than the Catholikes doe by open and plaine contradiction Ye charge the B. here with abridging the Queenes Maiesties gouernement by dissembling silence This is your former quarrell M. Stap. yet could ye hitherto proue nothing omitted concerning the verie gouernment it selfe and therefore ye wrangled about other clauses of debarring the gouernement from any foreine person and of vniting the gouernment to the crowne of Englande which bicause the B. set not downe as parcels of the gouernment which ech man séeth are none ye chalenge him of dissembling silence and do as one that either hath nothing else to saye or that this is some such notable triumph that ye thought good to end your first booke therewith as it were a gyrde to the Bishop and a pricke fastened in the Readers minde to cause him mislyke of the Bishops dealing and suspect the whole cause thereby This indéede were somewhat oratorlyke if it were not so apparant an vntruth that euery body might behold the falshood therof the malice of you and the impertinencie of the quarrell But as you thereby are able crie it out as fast and as lowde as ye will to proue nothing in word or déede against the Bishop and therefore run to byous quarrels of silence and abridging in effect so your selfe while ye would excuse your selfe as not discontented nor repining subiectes accuse your selfe without any dissembling at all And are not ashamed to confesse that ye withstande hir Maiesties gouernment by open and plaine contradiction Though therefore your accusation of the Bishop be to any indifferent man to consider the matter no excuse of your disobedience yet any that shall indifferently consider the matter yea though he were som what partiall on your side sith so openly and plainely ye dare open your contradiction thereto will holde you altogither vnexcusable and iudge you on your owne mouth But let vs sée why ye are thus importune with the Bishop to accuse him so often nowe in the ende of this booke whether ye haue any newe matter to lay to his charge that ye haue not yet vttred how truly ye accuse him For say you whereas the statute and the othe to the which all must sweare expresseth a supreme gouernment in all things and causes without exception M. Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this generall decree and amplifying that little which he giueth to the Queenes Maiestie with copie of wordes full statutelike he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the statute the principall cause ecclesiasticall ▪ And what is that you aske forsooth iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessarie in the Church than that the supreme gouernour thereof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truth and to make an ende of questioning this in the statute by M. Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of all things and causes ecclesiasticall this is absolutely the chiefest Why M. St. are ye nowe of a contrarie opinion to that if ye be remembred that ye were before for then ye reasoned that omission and silence was no deniall but concluded the contrarie Qui
force of his royall power oâ—… else a woman also might bothe teache in the Churche and also remitte sinnes and baptise orderly and solemnly and minister the sacrament of thankesgiuing For sithe bothe by the lawe of nations it is receyued that a woman may be admitted to the gouernment of a kingdome and in Moses lawe it is written when a man shall dye without a sonne the enheritance shall passe to the daughter but a kingdome commeth among many nations in the name of enheritaÌ„ce And sithe Debora the Prophetesse iudged the people of Israell and also Athalia and Alexandra haue reigned in Iurie it appeareth playnly that the kingly right appertayneth no lesse to women than to men VVhich also is to be sayde of children bicause according to the Apostle the heire though he be a childe is Lorde of all And Ioas began to raygne when he was seuen yere olde and Iosias reigned at the eight yere of his age But a childe for the defecte of iudgement a woman for the imbecillitie of hir kinde is not admitted to the preaching of Gods worde or to the solemne administration of the Sacraments I permit not sayth the Apostle a woman to teache For it is a shame for a woman to speake in the Churche and the same Apostle sayth that the heire being a childe diffreth nothing from a seruant But it is not the ecclesiasticall custome that he which remayneth yet a seruaunt shoulde be a minister of the Churche Sith therefore in the right of a kingdome the cause is all one of a man of a woman and of a childe but of like causes there is like and all one iudgement but neither childe nor woman and therevpon neither man also that is nothing else but king can do those things in his kingdome which of other ministers of the churche of God are necessarily to be done therfore it commeth to passe that neither the same king can rightly be called the supreme gouernour and head of the Church wherin he liueth All this long argument standeth stil on the foresayd principle that a supreme head or gouernour must be such a person as may do all the actions of all the offices belonging to all the parties gouerned But this is a false principle as alredy is manifestly declared therfore al this long driuen argument is to no purpose The Prince for all this may stil be the supreme head or gouernour ouer all Ecclesiastical persons so well as temporall in all their ecclesiasticall causes so well as in temporall although he himselfe can not exercise all ecclesiasticall functions nor doe himselfe all the ecclesiasticall actions of all ecclesiastical persons For else he might also be debarred of all supremacie ouer all ciuill and temporall persons in all their ciuill and temporall causes bicause he can not himselfe exercise all the ciuil and temporall offices nor do himselfe all the ciuill and temporall actions of all the ciuill and temporall persons neyther And so shoulde â—…e cleane be debarred from supremacie in either power nor haue any supreme gouernment at all Nowe taking this your false principle pro confesso â–ª after your wonted maner ye would driue vs to an absurditie as ye suppose by bringing in more examples of a woman and a chyld reasoning thus A pari from the like A woman and a child may be as well a supreme gouernor as may a man and hath as good right thereto But a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiasticall Ergo A man can not be a supreme gouernour neither in causes Ecclesiasticall For to this conclusion the force of bothe the promisses naturally driueth the argument I know ye clap in a paire of parenthesis saying in your coÌ„clusion neither a man also that is nothing else but a king But sith these wâ—…r des ar neither in the maior nor the minor the coÌ„clusion is plain â–ª that a man can not be a Supreme gouernor in causes Ecclesiasticall And I pray ye then tell me who shall be the supreme gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes if neyther man woman nor chyld may be wherby are not only excluded ciuill Princes but youre Popes are debarred from it Pope Ioane and Pope Iohn also For if they vse that order in the election to haue a Cardinall féele that all be safe yf the Uersicle be sayde Testiculos habet howe can the quyre meryly syng in the responce Deo gratias If hée be founde to bée a man he can not be supreme gouernoure Maister Saunders therefore muste néedes mende thys argumente or else the Popes for whome he writes this boke wyl con him small thanks except that they be Eunuches But Master Saunders not marking the sequele of hys conclusion fortifieth the parts of his argument To confirme the maior A woman and a childe may be as wel a supreme gouernour as a man he citeth the lawe Num. 27. he citeth ensamples Debora Athalia and Alexandra for women For children he citeth the Apostle Gal. 4. and the ensamples of Ioas and Iosias But these proues are superfluous sith the controuersie is not on the maior but on the minor Which minor is the point in controuersie and denied of vs that a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical To confirme this minor for a woman he alleageth that she can not be admitted to preache the woorde of God remit sinnes nor baptize orderly and solemnely nor administer the Lordes Supper bothe for the imbecillitie of hir kinde and for Saint Paules prohibition of teaching in the Church For a chyld he lykewise can not do the same things as well for defect of iudgement in his nonage as for Sainte Paules witnesse that he differs not from a seruant But the Churches vse is not for seruantes to doe these things and so not for children to do them Here for confirmation of his minor master Sanders rusâ—…s to his false former principle that if the woman the chyld be supreme gouernors in these things then muste they be able themselues to do these things But they cannot do these thinges themselues Ergo they can haue no supreme gouernmeÌ„t in them But this reason is alreadie taken away and therfore al this argumeÌ„t falles We graunt it is true that neither women nor children can do these things And therfore the Papistes are to blame that suffer women to bapatize and to saye or sing in theyr quyres theyr ordinarie seruice and reade the Lessons Wee graunte them also that no men neyther but suche as bée lawfully called therevnto maye themselues exercise and do these things but doth this fellow they may not therfore haue a gouernment ouer those that doo them in their orderly doing of them if this were true then take away all their gouernement ouer all lay persons and all ciuil causes too For neyther women can nor ought them selues to do all that men béeing their subiects can and ought to
estate being higher and so high that God reserued it to himselfe they distrusted the former estate as inferior and desired a visible king among them So that this which you wold draw to the dispraise maketh in deede more to the praise of a kings estate Neither do we denie Gregories sentence in respect of the spirituall prelacie but the question nowe is of the outwarde gouernment of Priests or Princes Which Gregorie not onely acknowledged with most humble obedience calling the Emperour and kings of Italy his Lords soueraignes and lowly bowed himselfe vnto them but also that more is so much detested the claime that the Pope makes now that he calleth the vser of it a fore runner of Antichrist And where ye haue this shift that he condemnes such titles of vniuersal Prelacie in the sea of other Bishoppes but not of his owne this is a false shifte he condemnes it in hys owne Bishopricke of Rome so well as in anye other For where Eulogius the Patriarke of Alexandria had saluted him with suche stiles he answereth Ecce in praefatione c. Beholde in the preface of the Epistle the which you directed vnto me who forbad it ye thought to set in the word of a proud calling naming me vniuersall Pope the which I beseeche you that your most curteous holinesse wil no more do so Bicause that which is giueÌ„ to another more thaÌ„ reaâ—…oÌ„ requireth is subtracted from your selues I seeke not to be aduaunced in titles but in maners Neither counte I that honour wherein I know my brethren leese their honour For my honour is the honour of the vniuersall Churche My honour is the sounde force of my brethren TheÌ„ am I honored wheÌ„ to euery particular person the honor that is due vnto him is not denyed For if your holynesse call me vniuersall Pope he denyeth himselfe to be in that he calleth me vniuersall but God forbid this Let those wordes goe that puffe vp truth and wounde charitie Thus sayth Gregorie and this is cited euen in your owne decrées not onely about the word Vniuersall Pope but vpon these titles Princeps SacerdotuÌ„ vel summus sacerdos the chief of the priests or the chiefe or high priest or any other such titles So farre was this Pope Gregorie then from the pride of the late Pope Gregories that haue bene since for he both acknowledged himselfe to be but equall to other Bishoppes and him selfe and all other Byshops to be vnder their naturall Princes The testimonie therefore of Pope Gregorie is but wrested to vrge suche superioritie of Byshoppes as shoulde deâ—… their Princes supreme gouernmente Now M. Saunders hauing thus as he thinketh fully confyrmed his proues for the superioritie of Priests in the olde Testamente abouâ—… Kings gathereth altogether and knites vp hys conclusion saying VVherefore sithe the institution of Priests proceeded from the good wyll of God and from his free mercie but God graunted not the dignitie of a king but in his anger at the peoples petition lesser consideration is worthily had of the king than of the people both bicause he is made king onely for the peoples cause and also onely at the peoples petition But the Priests although they be made for the peoples cause yet neither onely for the peoples cause but muche more for the honour of Christe Neither onelye at the petition of the people were they made but rather of the free mercie of God and that for that eternall predestination of God whiche was ordayned aboute oure saluation in the tyme appoynted to be brought to effect Ye make your comparison and your conclusion hang illâ—…oredly together Maister Saunders your comparison is of the Princes and the Priests estate and ye conclude that therefore lesse consideration is worthily to be had of the king than of the people How chaunce ye say not of the king than of the Priests but belike ye thoughte that that was oute of controuersie the Priests were so farre aboue the people that much lesse consideration is to be had of the people than of the priests But maister Saunders your beast sacrificed said not so nor your authors Philo and Iosephus but sayde he was made equall to the people But say you the king was made for the peoples cause I graunt ye maister Saunders and was not the priest so too yea doe not your selfe sayâ—… he was made for the peoples cause also if this then argue an inferiorship as in déede it doth in respecte of the ende doth it not argue the priest to be inferior too and lesser consideration to be had of him than of the people that is to say of the Church of God But saye you the King vvas made onely for the peoples cause and the priest was made for the honor of Christ also for the eternall predestination of God vvhich vvas ordained about saluation in time appoynted to be broughte to effect And I pray ye Maister Saunders was not this another cause of making the King also dyd not his estate make to the honour of Christe and represent Christ so well as the Priestes estate was not he called Christus Domini The Lordes annoynted so well as the Priest yea and better to then by your leaue For Christ was not onely figured in the kings estate so well as in the Priests but also toke his humanitie of the race of the kings and not of the Priests and so is called the sonne of Dauid not the sonne of Aaron the king of the Ievves not the priest of the Ievves And though in respect of his priesthoode he was the onely sacrifice of our redemption whereby our sinnes are taken away Christus mortuus est pro peccatis nostris Christ dyed for our sinnes yet notwithstanding resurrexit pro iustificatione nostra he rose for ouâ—…â—…ustification by his kingdome by his power by his victorie by his resurrection by his ascention by his sitting at the right hand of his father in al which his kingdome is contained so that it comprehendeth both our PredestinatioÌ„ and our saluation too And therefore we are taught by Christ to saye let thy kingdome come and not let thy priesthoode come And not onely all our estate in this life and the life to come but all the grace and mercie and iustice and power and glory of God is attributed not so muche to the priesthoode as to the kingdome of Christ. But ye saye God was angrie with the peoples request when he made the kings estate I graunt you Maister Saunders and tolde ye the reason before out of Lyra and the texte is plaine bicause God him selfe was king vnto them which doth not abase but so much the more aduaunce it But now when Maister Saunders hath thus extolled the Priests gouernmeÌ„t of the old TestameÌ„t he abaseth theÌ„ again by comparison of Bishops of the newe Testament saying Sith therefore the Bishops of the Churche of Christ are of no lesse dignitie than
vvere in times past the Leuitical priests yea rather sith the Apostle treating of the Ministers of the nevve Testament conferring them with the olde Leuites sayth that they ministred death and the letter that killed but these minister the spirit which quickneth and righteousnesse and therfore the ministers of the nevve Testament are more vvorthie than the olde Leuites vvhat maner of king shal vve thinke him to bee vvhiche contemning the ministers of the nevve Testamente calleth himselfe the supreme head of his Christian kingdome and that immediatly vnder Christ This comparison Maister Saunders of the ministers of the olde and nevve Testament rightly vnderstood wée acknowledge The nevve is more vvorthy than the olde but the vvorthinesse and glory of the nevv ministration that saint Paule speakes on is spirituall and not outvvard glory For although the ministers of the olde Testament had outwarde glory and some of them by especiall calling had the visible supreme and ciuill gouernement although seldome yet the ministers of the nue testament are by Christ as your owne selfe haue confessed flatly forbidden it Vos autem non sic but you shall not be so And therefore where ye woulde haue them of no lesse dignitie meaning of outvvard glory and gouernment or else your example holdes not they are of farre lesse dignitie therein notwithstanding in a spirituall and invvarde glory they are againe of a farre greater dignitie than the olde Which spirituall dignitie if any King shoulde contemne you might then well demaunde vvhat maner of king he were and we woulde answere you hée were a wicked King but as these are two distinct dignities the spirituall dignitie of the minister and the visible supremacie of the King so may they be and are with vs well and godly vsed both of them Where both the Prince hath the outward dignitie of supreme head or gouernour vnder Christ and yet the ministers spirituall dignitie is not onely no whit contemned but hath his honor yelded due vnto him And therefore we denie not that which followeth For if he acknowledge not the Ministers of Christe ouer him he can not be blessed of them VVherevpon neither can he be pertaker of the sanctifying spirite whose ministers they are We graunt Maister Saunders that the Prince humbly receiueth their blessing and is partaker of the holy spirite of God whose ministers they are in these actions Wherein the Prince acknowledgeth them to represent God and is vnder them But what hindreth this that in other respectes they againe are vnder him and he their supreme gouernour but Maister Saunders procéedeth saying Dauid cryeth and nowe ye kings vnderstande and be ye learned ye that iudge the earth apprehend discipline least the Lorde waxe wroth and ye perishe oute of the right waye But if kings must be learned then so farre forth they must be vnder For he that is learned is learned of some maister and is scholler to him of whome he is learned the disciple is not aboue his maister but in that thing that he learneth of his maister of necessitie he is inferior That kings ought to be learned we gladly confesse and are glad that you confesse it althoughe againste your wylls for ye would rather haue them altogither vnlearned whom ye haue so long detained in blindnesse But why woulde ye haue them nowe learned forsothe bicause you would onely be their maisters and so they shoulde be still your vnderlings not onely in learning suche ill lessons as you woulde teache them but vnder pretence of teachers to be their gouernours too True it is in that the teacher teacheth he is aboue and in that the learner learneth he is vnder â—…ut the teacher is not aboue nor the learner vnder in other things Thoughe Moyses learned of Iethro yet in gouernement Moyses was aboue him Thoughe Dauid learned of Nathan yet in gouernement he was aboue him Thoughe Ozias learned of Iudith yet in gouernement he was aboue hir And so all princes that are taughte of their schole maisters their scholemaister maye be the better in learning but he is the worser in authoritie And thoughe he be the maister in knowledge yet he makes euen his knowledge wherby he is maister to serue the Prince also Yea although the Prince be not his maister in learning yet in all causes of learning the Prince hath a generall supreme gouernement to sée by his lawes euery kinde of learning maintayned in his order to forbid naughtie artes to be learned to appoint such suche an order methode to be taught or learned as learned men enforme him is good and easie to the attaining of learning to appaynt scholes and learned scholemaisters for learning and to giue them lawes statutes and stipendes for the maintenance of learning all this may the Prince doe by his supreme authoritie ouer all learned persons and in all causes of learning althoughe he himselfe be altogether vnlearned and can not one letter on the booke Althoughe woulde to God all Princes were learned not as the Papistes woulde haue them but as Dauid was and exhorteth all Princes to bée And thus as thys sentence makes nothing in the worlde for him so hys example thereon makes verye muche againste him But for all thys argumente be thus simple he wyll loâ—…de vs with further proues saying Sithe therefore it is sayde to the Apostles Go teache ye all nations and sith vnder the names of nations the kings of them are comprehended and Byshops and Priests haue succeeded the Apostles in the office of teaching truely in the offyce of teachyng the Byshoppe is greater than his king so farre is it off that the king can be the Bishops hed in all things causes VVhich title notwithstanding is not onely of these men giuen to a king but also by publique decree of late in Englande giuâ—…n vnto a Queene To reason froÌ„ teaching to gouerning is no good teaching M. SauÌ„ders If ye teach this doctrine theÌ„ your Pope should haue little gouernment for God wot he teacheth little being often times vnlearned and alwayes to proud to teache If ye say he teacheth by others so caÌ„ a prince too And though he could himselfe teache and would also teach the truth and not suppresse it yet sith ye say he succedes the Apostles but in the office of teaching he is no furder superior than he teacheth by your owne reckoning Neither would this superioritie be denyed him of any that he ought to teache if he in dâ—…de succeded the Apostles But if the succession of the Apostles consist in teaching as here ye confesse then hath not the Pope to crake muche of succeeding Peter and Paule that teacheth not as Peter and Paule did as woulde to God he did and all priests or Bishops else Whiche if they did and taught truely this woulde augment and not diminishe the Princes supreme authoritie yea and the Quéenes too Maister Saunders for in gouernement before ye
lay in them to haue a king or no and not rather in these kings that had subdued them who althoughe they appointed or suffered petit rulers ouer them yet woulde they not suffer them to haue a king But whyle they had kings we reason of those kinges authoritie But what reason haue you else for this is a very slender one But this say you in this kinde I will make my principall reason that Christ when he was in this worlde and fulfilled the whole law and all righteousnesse yet notwithstanding he would in thinges ecclesiasticall onely that the Priest and by no meanes that the earthly king should gouerne This were a principall reason in déede if you could proue this M. Saunders but as yet you haue not proued it and I thinke it will be harder than you wéene for you to doe Now to proue it you reason thus For he openly refused to administer an earthly kingdome and therfore fled when he sawe the people go about to make him a king And he denied that he was ordeyned to be a deuider betweene the brethren But if so be that after the perfecte reason and minde of Moses lawe it had at least beene comely either the Churche or the Bishop to be gouerned of an earthly King Christ would not haue left that thing vnfulfilled For it was no harde matter for him to haue administred a earthly kingdome for some very little time the which when he did not neither yet omitted he any thing that can iustly be desired to the perfect gouernement of his Churche It hath neuer beene at any time or yet is of any perfection that an earthly king shoulde arrogate to him selfe any power in ecclesiasticall matters besides this that with his sworde he shoulde defende and fight for that whiche is defined by the Prieste â–ª sentences And is this necessarie in the Churche M. Saunders that the Prince may do thus much with his sworde But I pray you where dyd Christ thus muche as to fight for the Priests decrees with a sworde If your reason be good you muste shewe this or else why reason you from the factes of Christe whyle he was héere on earth if you can shewe as you promised that Christe woulde that the Priest and by no meanes the prince shuld gouerne in eccl. matters this were to the purpose But this you shew not but would windelace it in with a bought that if Christ would haue had Princes gouerne in ecclesiasticall matters he woulde haue bene a Prince him selfe but he would neuer be a Prince and yet if he had would he might therefore he woulde not haue Princes meddle in matters of his Church sithe he woulde not meâ—…le in matters pertayning to their gouernement If this were a good reason I might reuerse it thus that sithe be medled in their matters when he had tribute to be paide to Cesar when he bad his Disciples not feare them that kill the body when he called Herode Foxe when he tolde Pilate he had no power but that was giuen him from aboue therefore they agayne might meddle in his matters bicause he medled in theirs This is as good a reason as yours But ye say Christ tooke not a kingdome vpon him nor woulde deuide lands yet he tooke vpon him all things necessarie for his Churches gouernment what shoulde you conclude hereon Ergo the Princes gouernment is not necessarie in Church causes is this the direct coÌ„clusion Nay M. Saund. either the coÌ„clusion takes away the Princes gouernmeÌ„t froÌ„ the Church of Christ or else which it doth in déed it hitteth your Pope if you marke it well who pretending to follow Christ taketh an earthly kingdome vpon him and deuideth landes which Christ refused to do The argument is thus Christ did al that was necessary but Christ did not take vpoÌ„ him a kingdome Ergo he thought it not necessary This is flat agaynst the Pope but nothing agaynst christian Princes The coÌ„clusioÌ„ is good for it was not necessary for Christ in his person yet for christian Princes it might wel be necessarie It is necessarie for christian Princes as your selfe coÌ„fesse to vse the teÌ„poral sword in the churches defence and yet Christ him selfe did neuer vse it Except you wil say he vsed it after a sort when with a materiall whip outwarde violeÌ„ce he draue the byers sellers out of the temple But then I replie that herein he exercised for the while eueÌ„ the office of a Magistrate shewed not onely his owne zeale power of his kingdome but also a paterne to al Magistrates Princes with what zeale power they shâ—…ld exercise their authoritie in reforming abuses in the church of god Although Christ him self did not personally handle the sworde as they personally may do Neither yet did Christ all those thinges that his ministers did ought to do It is necessarie for the ministers to baptise yet Christ him selfe that we read of did neuer baptise any he could haue don it if he had thought it necessarie What shal we say with M. Sand he did al that was necessary but he did not baptise Ergo to baptise is not necessarie This therefore is a wrong principle that Christe must haue done euery thing personally him selfe that is necessarie to be done in his Church True it is that if Christe neither did it nor taught it to be done by him self nor by his Apostles but would the contrarie as M. Sand sayth then the argument were good so it confuteth a nuÌ„ber of Popish traditions that were neither done nor taught by Christ nor his Apostles but rather that contrary But as for this gouernment of Princes as M. Sanders him selfe confesseth was practised in the olde lawe whiche lawe gaue the Prince his charge therin And Christ testiâ—…eth that he came not to breake the lawe but to fulfill it And althoughe he became not a Prince him self which might haue seemed to haue made â—…or the Popes purpose but rather condemneth it in his ministers yet both he him self his Apostles obeyed the Prince then ruling which now the Pope denieth statly to do But ye say Christ his Apostles obeyed them not in eccl. matters Neither was it reason M. San. both bicause Christ him selfe was the law maker his Apostles were the first teachers of it Princes then were Infidels But to reason now from the like state in the princes that now are christiaÌ„â—… to giue in all things like authoritie to Bishops paâ—…ors with Christ and his Apostles is as farre from reason on the other side Neither yet do we debarre from Bishops and Pastors that superioritie ouer Princes that is giuen by Christe and his Apostles to them and their successours of the administration of spirituall and ecclesiastical things neither do we as M. Saunders sayth giue the gouernement of the Churche of Christe to an earthly Prince For bothe the Prince is Christian and not
intreaties rather thaÌ„ with terrors The condition pleaseth a publike calling forth of the people is made by the Kings coÌ„maundement to whom the King maketh an oratioÌ„ persuadeth the people to receiue the faith of Christ moueth them to submit their neckes to Christ the priest reioyceth that the King not yet baptized is becoÌ„e an Apostle of his owne natioÌ„ so the King is baptised What condition is here made by the Bishoppe vnto the King of giuing ouer his realme deposing himselfe which might haue done more hart thaÌ„ good In what couâ—…nant did the people here binde themselues to looâ—…e the libertiâ—… of chosing their King or promise to forsake their King if their King forsake the faith here was no such bondage â—…red â—…ther to the King by the Bishop and the King thought good to offer none such to the people but with gentle persuasions to allâ—…re them So that these presupposals of these Bishops speaches vnto these Princes are vtterly false and forged onely to driue in the readers heads a surmise of seme suche conditionall admission to the Christian faith in these elde Princes dayes whiche was nothing so nor so And yet by these colourable presupposals he enforceth his matter with a question aying Can the Bishop to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of Baptisme and giue the sacrament of thanksgiuing Why M. SauÌ„ders here was no such condition moued yet Remigius gaue Clodoneus the sacrament of Baptisme â–ª In deede the sacrament of that kâ—…giuing he gaue not then vnto hym neyther was it necessarie till he were instructed in the mysterie of it And therefore this is as fondly added in this case to the Sacrament of Baptisme as your case of Baptisme is craftily and malicioâ—…sly deuised to bring Princes in bondage vnto Bishoppes But this King thoughe he and his people submitted their neckes to Christe yet did he not thus submit himselfe and his people to the Bishoppe The long promiseth to 〈◊〉 one God but not to 〈◊〉 eyther the Bishop of Remes or the Bishop of Rome â–ª These knackes and conditions of bondage for Princes to promise and â—…weare obedience to the Pope and to his Bishops yea to sweare to depose themselues and become pâ—…uate men if they forscke this consâ—…rained obedience is of later times as the Popes power and tirannie hath growne and hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Christian Princes great huâ—…lie but lâ—…s in manye Christian kingdomes But yet it neuer went thus for as it now should do â–ª if M. Saunders might haue hie minde for it was neuer vrged in their Christâ—…dome before This pasieth the slauerie of the Spanish InquisitioÌ„ that no Prince nor people shuld be christened except they swere to these exceptioÌ„s In the olde time when the Prophetes anoynted kinges they tolde them of the blessings of God to come vpon them and their posteritie to sitte in their seate after them and that God woulde buylde them an house to continue if they serued him and walked faythfully in his wayes And if they should do the contrarie howe God woulde rende the kingdome from them and giue it to another Of suche promises and threates that the Prophetes tolde the kinges we reade and of the promises that the kinges made agayne to God we reade but that any Prophet compounded with the king before that he shoulde renounce his kingdome or that any king tooke either their circumcision or their kingdome on suche condition or that the king reuolting from his promise either voluntarily or by compulsion deposed him selfe or was deposed of the Bishop Priest or Prophet of God these thinges yâ—… can not shewe vs but these thinges ye shoulde shewe vs if ye will make good your sayings and directly proue your purpose You tell vs heere a tale of a tubbe in the name of these kinges Bishops that they neuer dyd nor I thinke dyd euer thinke of any such deuises But go too let vs nowe presuppose with M. Saunders euen as he imagineth A King would be baptised The Bishop sayth VVe are glad most deare sonne that thou desirest to be made a citizen of the kingdome of heauen but this thou oughtest to knowe for certayntie that the case is not like in the kingdome of heauen as it is in the worlde for in the Churche thou muste liue so that thou make captine thy vnderstanding to the obedience of fayth But thou how greater thou art in the worlde mayest so muche the more hurte the Churche of God if thou shalte abuse the righte of thy sworde to the defence of heretikes contrarie to the Catholike fayth No otherwise therefore thou mayest haue entrie into the Churche than if thou shalt promise that thou wilte persist in that fayth and defende that Churche with all thy force which beeing receiued from the Apostles is continued by the successioÌ„ of Bishops vntil this day dispersed through out all the world But if it shall chaunce thou doest otherwise thou shalt not refuse but shalte go from the right of thy kingdome and promise to leade a priuate life M. Saunders nowe presupposeth that the king hearing the Bishop thus beginne to indent with him will beginne his answere to the Bishop thus I am ready to acknowledge the Christian fayth Why M. sand is not this inough if the Bishop séeke something else besides the acknowledging of the Christian fayth Surely he neither séeketh the glory of God nor the Princes saluation nor the encrease of Christendome but his owne sucre authoritie Well the Bishop will haue him graunt to all the residue of his conditions or else he will not baptise him Heere agayne he presupposeth the king to say further But I neither promise that I will with my sworde defende the Catholike fayth neither will I for whatsoeuer I shall do giue ouer the right of my kingdome Ye tel the kings tale parcially M. San â–ª you should make it flatly to denie that whiche the Bishop exacted of him to do Which was to promise to defend not the faith but that faith that Church c. Which the king denieth to make promise vnto the Bishop on suche condition Yea saith M. sand saucely steppeth in for the B. can the B. to this man thus affected minister the sacrament of baptisme c. And why not M. San. if the bishop be not worse affected him selfe than this man is for you graunt your selfe that he is wel affected towards the christiaÌ„ faith would acknowledge it which is al one with defending it And if the bishop be not content with this promise hath not the king good cause to suspect him he telleth him of bondes conditions to be made to renounce the right of his kingdome if he perâ—…e not in that faith with al his force if he defeÌ„d not that church that was receiued from the Apostles continued by successioÌ„ of B. till this day and iâ—… dispersed throughout all the world May not here the king
that the Kyng should be obedient to the disposition of the humaine minister of Christ which is the question nowe in hande And yet whether it signifie this mysterie that you say it onely doth or no may be called into question For if it hath such a significatiō it is a very darke mysterie And me thinks it might more easilye signifie other things For oyle sometimes signifieth mercie sometimes plentie sometimes remedie against poyson sometimes it is referred to the Priesthoode sometimes to the kingdome of Christ somtimes to the mysticall members of Christ as they are Kings Priests with him so that the anoynting with oyle which espetially was vsed to Priests and Kings who therefore are called the sons of oyle is applyed to sundry significations and not onely to the incarnation and humaine nature of Christe And yet is there no suche necessitie of anoynting Christian Kings as was of the Iewishe Kings For they had commaundement so to doe and it was a ceremoniall figure of diuerse things in christ Which commaundement and ceremonies Christian Princes are not bound vnto It is cropen vp of a custome I cānot tel how to imitate the Iewes herein But as for the nature of a Kings estate he is neuer a whit the lesse King if he wante the anoynting with oyle and as the Papistes superstitiouslie doe vse it it were muche better away But the Papistes make a great matter of anoynting Kings with oyle yea sayth Maister Saunders they were wont to be annoynted no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes as thoughe they shoulde be so anoynted still And true it is in one sense that they shoulde no other wise be so annoynted still that is to say neyther of them shoulde be anoynted No say you should not the Priestes be annoynted ▪ We are In deede you be Maister Saunders and all your order But the Apostles and Disciples of Christe were not and therefore your order is differing from theirs and all godly ministers should differ from yours be ye shorne or be ye anoynted But if it be true that you say kings should be no otherwise anoynted than you howe chaunce then ye are anoynted otherwise than kings as your glosse doth reason that vpon the King is powred oile but vpon the Bishop is powred Chrisme Kings are anoynted on the righte shoulder but Byshops and Priestes are annoynted vpon their heads but the heade is better than the shoulder and Chrisme is better than oyle Ergo Bishops and Priests are superior vnto Kings Were not they which anoynted their pamphlets with such greasie argumentes to perch vp their balde crownes aboue the imperiall crownes of their natural Soueraignes worthy by the Princes commaundemente to be well anoynted with vnguentum baculinum to make them acknowledge their due subiection if they rather deserue not sharper instice but let vs procéede vnto M. Saunders other arguments Let vs put the case that Christ himselfe is at this day conuersant in the earth as he was conuersant in times paste Can any man doubt but in that he is man al Christian kings ought to be vnder his gouernment both in all eccl. and in those secular causes that may promote the cause of the Chruche for he shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and there shal be no ende of his kingdomes If therefore earthly Kings are parte of the house of Iacob Christ shall raigne ouer them and shall subdue their Kingdomes to hys spirituall Kingdome But whatsoeuer power was necessarye vnto Christe to eternall saluation he transformed the externall and and visible ministerie thereof vnto the Apostles when he said as my father hath sent me so I send you The Apostles therefore and their successors doe no lesse rule in spiritual causes ouer Christian Kings so far as the visible Ministerie than Christ himselfe is in truth ouer them so farre as the holy power of his humaine nature VVherevpon sayth Epiphanius Christ hath giuen a kingdome to those that are placed vnder him that it should not be sayde he proceedeth from little things to greater The throne of Christ abideth and of his kingdome there is no ende and he sitteth vpon the throne of Dauid so that he hath translated the kingdome of Dauid together with the Bishoprike and hath giuen it vnto his seruaunts that is to the Bishops of the Catholike Church Beholde so well the priestly as the Kingly power is communicated to the pastors of the Churche of Christe that by that meanes Christ shoulde be declared to raigne for euer yea euen as a spirituall and heauenly man And this truelye dothe that annoynting testifie that the Kings receyue of Priests The argument is thus If Christ himselfe were conuersant in earth in his humaine nature as he hath bene he shoulde haue ouer all Christian kings all eccl. and secular power in those things that might promote the Church But Christ hath giuen to his ministers in the visible ministerie all the power necessarie to saluation ouer Christian kings that belongeth to himselfe in his humaine nature Ergo he hath giuen his Ministers in the visible ministerie all ecclesiasticall and secular power in those things that maye promote the Church First this argument standeth vpon another presupposal which as it is no lesse false than the other so is it more impossible being flat contrarie to the worte of God and to the will of christ He puttes a case that Christ woulde come againe and in his humaine nature be conuersant vpon the earth as he was from his natiuitie till his death Good Lord M. Saūders is your cause so bad and false that you are still driuen to these shiftes to put the cases of false and forged presupposals if your cause were good it woulde stand of it selfe you might go plainely to worke and neuer reason vpon suche deuised cases as you knowe and beleue shall neuer be true except you be a Millenarie indéede as you gaue before a shrewde suspition of that heresie to think Christ shall come againe and here for a thousand yeares in all worldly might and glorie raigne in the earth and then go dwell in heauen But perhaps you wil say what wil you let me to put what case I lyft when the sky falles they say we shal haue Larkes True M. Saunders we can not let you to put what case you lyst be it neuer so absurde and repugnant to the truth But is this the rediest way to boult out the truth to put the case of an euident vntruth and to imagine that to come that neuer shall be to inferre that vsurpation of your Priestes that is and ought not to be But sée howe sone your argument is ouerturned For if your case be not admitted then is all your labour loste and you haue wonne nothing for your Priestes But the Scripture is manifest that this shall neuer come to passe And that the heauens containe Christ til the day of Iudgement he is neither here
that M. Stapl. passeth so slightly ouer proue the full matter M. Stapleton letteth go the principall mat ter and quarels at the margin Stapl. 77. a. The englishing of the worde supremus The last taken for the chiefest The proportion betweene the stay of an anchor and the staye of a Prince Sadliâ—…g â—… Cowe Beggerly shifts Stapl. 78. b Nicephorus his amplification Stap. fol. 78. b The force of a metaphore 2. Tim. â—… Stapl. 78. b. 1. Tim. 8. M Stapletons order to this diuision Stapl. 79 b Stapl. 80. a. Stapl. 80. a Comparison of learning betweene bishop Gardineâ—… bishop White and Bishop Horne Sta. 80. a. Prouer. 12. Wherfore Nicephorus dedicated his ecclesiastical historie to the Emperour Prefa Niceph. The princes exact iudgement and censure in ecclesiastical matters The Princes reformation of the priestes and of the Churche Stapl. 80. b 79. â—… M. Stapl. inconstancie and contradiction Stapl. 80. b M Stap. grauÌ„teth the good regiment of magistrates to be the spring of true religioÌ„ Prosperitie religion ioyned in a Prince Prâ—…fa Niceph. Stap. 80. b. Stapl. 85. â—… The Grecians fell into the Turkes captiuitie after this submission to the Pope The Papistes haue as muche cause or more to beware by the Grecians captiuitie than the ProtestaÌ„ts The Pope the chiefe cause of the Greke emperours decay The Pope also the chief cause of the Weast Emperours decay The Greeke church neuer became captiue to the Turke till they became thrall to the Pope Stap. 81. a The countreys that obeyed the Pope become thrall to the Turks cap tiuitie Stapl. 81. â—… Blearing the readers eyes How M. Stapl. answeres the Bishops allegation Cyril epi. 17. â—…om â–ª 4. Wherein the Emperoures chief care consisted Obscuritie 2. Cor. 2. Stapl. 8 â—… â–ª b Generalities Particularities Cyril epi. 17. tom 4. The discussing and debating Ecclesiasticall matters argueth not the supreme gouernement of theÌ„ How the Papistes elude the examples of christian princes Stapl. 81. b Stapl. 81. b. M. Stapl. false and subtile translation Principalitie of priest â—…ode Priesthoode sprong not froÌ„ Peter Gal. 2. The Papistes saye S. Iames sayd the 〈◊〉 Masse Peter no massing priest What manner of principalitie of priesthoode Valentinian ment Concil tom 1. The Epistle of Placidia to Theodosius The Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius Theodosius Epistle to Valentinian Wherein the Emperour had the gouernement of the councell The Emperor decreeth the decree of the Councell No appeale after the Emperours decree Stapl. 82. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Act. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Pag. 19. b. M St. order to this diuision Stapl. 82. b. cap. 20. The state of the question Supra pag. 136. Stap. 82. b. The supreme authoritie the Papistes grauÌ„t to Princes and in what sense they graunt it Stap. 82. b. What state of the question M. St. setteth downe The oth of the supremacie The othe and the statute slaâ—… deâ—…ed by the Papistes Supreme gouernmeÌ„t is not all maner of gouernement How the ministers are higher or inferiour Stapl. 83. a. Stapl. 83. a. The statute eâ—… cluding any forain persons authoritie excludeth net the authoritie of the whole churche Gala. 3. Coloss. 3. Ephe. 2. What authoritie it is that the true catholike church hath Iohn 15. Stap. 8â—… a M. Stapl. quarell for vniting the supremacie to the crovvne M. Stapl. at the ende of his booke woulde leaue a scruple in the readers head of misselyking the state The answere to M. Stapl. inconneâ—…ence of a Turke or an heretike to haue this supremacie Difference betwene a Turke and an heretike What a Turke would doe if he had the crovvne Iob. 34. Psalm 147. The Princes certain and pre sente righte oughte not to be forsakeÌ„ for feare of vncertain inconueniences that may be doubted to come Difference betwene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie The Statute cleared from M. Stap. inconuenieÌ„ce Howe muche the Papistes regarde the crowâ—…e of 〈◊〉 How well the Pope wisheth to England Whether M. St. inconuenience wold not fall oute if the clause of supre macie were vnited to the Pope What the lawe respecteth in the statute Stapl. 83. a. b. Stapl. 83. b Stapl. â—…3 b. Stapl. 83. b. The excuses of the Papists Stapl. 83. b The Papistes pretence of zeale to God to disobey their Prince The absolute obedience to God hindreth not the conditionall obedience to the Prince What the Papists meane here by God. Hovv Thomas Becket died for Gods cause Sta. 83. b. The accusation of vs. Stapl. 83. b The B. charged for omitting the Principall ecclesiasticall cause Cap. 63. b M. Stapletons contradiction M. Stap. wold driue the B from his issue The Prince and the statute slâ—…undered Difference betwene ecclesiasticall gouernour and gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes How iudgement in ecclesiasticall causes is ascribed to the Prince how not Gal. 1. The statute slaundred The Popishe churche claymeth superioritie in iudgeging of doctrine aboue the Pope Stap. 48. a. Stap. 48. b. Math. 12. The original of bothe powers Lib. 2. cap. 1. pag 56. M. Saunders beginneth with contradictions to himselfe Saund. pag. 57 Saund. 57. Saund. 57. sand pag. 57. Supra pa. 108. Difference betwene the ciuill power of heathen and christian Prin ces Maister Saunders contradictions Saund. pag. 57 The kingdom of Christe in this world but not of this worlde Ecclesiasticall power Saund. pa. 57. How the royal power submitteth it selfe to the Ecclesiasticall power The distinction of In of Stapleton fol. 29. a. b. Deuter. 17. Saund. pa. 57. The vse of both powers M. Saunders contradictioÌ„ Supra pag. 791. Howe Hâ—…lie had the ciuil and ecclesiâ—…sticall power Howe Noe Melchizedech and Abraham had both powers Sâ—…und pa. 56. Howe Moyses had bothe powers How the Machabees had them Howe Samuel had them Speciall consecration Sauâ—… pag. 57. Ozias example Supra pag. sand pag. 57. Supra pag. 670. sand pag. 57. 58. The ende of both powers Math. 10. 1. Tim. 2. How farre the ende of the ciuill power stretcheth Supra pag. 117. M. San. maymeth S. Paules sentence Supra pag. 669. Killing the â—…o dy is not the proper ende of the Princes power An ill Priest killes the soule Platina de sententijs Pij 2. Pag. 80. M. Sanders contrarieth him selfe sand pag. 58. What superiour power we ascribe to the Prince Saund. pa. 5â—… M. sand order in this chapter sand pag. 58. M. Saunders Definition of a gouernour M. sand examples to coÌ„firme his definition M. sand definition false M. sand examples insufficient Diuers instances against M. sand exaÌ„ples The instance of an Embassadour M. Feck tale of a gentleman defending that mustard was good with all meate The instance â—… of woman sand pag. 58. Maister Saunders exceptioÌ„ The vvill and povver of a king restrayned by lavve The similitude of a mannes body Sand. 58. Matth. 28. Iohn 20. 1. Cor. 11. Num 27. Iud. 4. 4. Reg. 11. Gal. 4. 4. Reg. 11. 4. Reg 22. 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Gal. 4. M Saunders argumeÌ„t standeth all