thou knowest not which as before was answered thee makes for their imagination of a Purgatory but if the Papists hold that some Believers are free from all Sin and perfected in this Life therein they outstrip thee and the Priests who would exclude all Believers from perfection and freedom in this Life Pr. Ye say that all men have a like Light and Grace some do attain to salvation others not which proceedeth not from any difference of Grace given by God but that others have better improven the Light given to all which improvement must indeed come from free will Ye hold Merit You are not so ingenious as Papists An. Concerning Grace being given alike to all if thou intendest in measure or quantity thou hast vainly made repetitions without ground against us but as for the improvement of the Grace it comes not from free will as falsly thou hast said but from the capacity the creature is put into by the Grace it self for mans will is not made free of it selfe but by the Grace or Power of God which worketh in man to will and to do But and if somes not attaining of salvation is because it s either from a difference of the Grace given by God or for want of sufficient Grace given by him according to thy Doctrine then this charges the fault upon God as being partial and the occasion of some mens destruction contrary to that saying of the Prophet He willeth not the death of a sinner but rather his return c. Pr. That the Light that Christ enlighteneth all men with is sufficient for the knowledg of the mysteries of the Kingdom is contrary to Scriptures An. Nay It is not contraâ—y to the Scriptures that the Light of Christ in men is sufficient for the knowledg of mysteries of the Kingdom savingly in that t is sufficient for believing leading out of darkness and to receive the Light of Life And they from whom God hath hid those mysteries are such as disobey the Light and shut their eyes against it as Christ said Their eyes have they closed c. least they should see and be converted and I should heal them All which doth evidence the defect and fault not to be in the Light of Christ but in them that disobey it Pr. The natural man cannot know the things that are of God he hath no sufficient Light to know that which he cannot know An. That therefore he hath no sufficient Light is no true consequence for then by this none have Light sufficient whilst in the natural state which all are in before they are made spiritual thy consequence had onely held to prove the Light insufficient if thou couldest have proved that they that are in the fallen and natural state cannot be changed nor restored into a spiritual state but this were gross to affirm for as man is natural he cannot know the things of the Spirit buâ— the spiritual man doth Pr. The Jewes that had the outward meanes shut their eyes against it neither doth it mean of the Light of Christ within except onely the Light of nature An. The Jews had not onely an outward meanes but also an inward Light the good Spirit of God given to them though they Rebelled and the Word nigh them in their heaâ—ts c. which was not a Light of nature Herein thou hast greatly erred And would Christ have reproved any for shutting their eyes against that which is natural and insufficient and made that the cause of their not being converted and healed See Mat. 13 15. Thine and the Priests darkness and ignorance in this matter How great is it Pr. The Kingdom of God being Righteousness Peace Joy in the Holy Ghost no man that hath not the Sanctifying Spirit hath it or had it within him no peace nor joy in the wicked An. The Kingdom of heaven was in the Pharisees or Jews as Christ said The kingdom of heaven is within you Luk. 17.21 when they were unsanctifyed though they were not come into it nor to attain to the righteousness and peace of it for that 's attained to by such as are translated out of darkness into the Light for all that have a true Light and Seed in them are not in it Pr. The Light of the Scriptures is a Light shining in a dark place 2 Pet. 1. An. The Light that Peter directed them to was the more sure Word of prophecy 2 Pet. 1. And was that the Scriptures of the Prophets Or did that Light come from them or from Christ If so then Why were they not directed to the Scriptures of the Apostles Or Were the Scriptures of the Prophets more sure then the Apostles writings Surely the Light which leads to the day star arising in the heart thou art exceeding ignorant of and thy darkness may be felt Pr. How gross Pelagionisme is that the same Light which was Sanctifying to others that obeyed was Condemning to Judas and Cain Is Gods revealing of those things and hiding of them the same Sanctifying Light and Illumination An. God who reveals those things to the obedient that he hides from the disobedient this plainly contradicts thee and thy former words for God is still the same Light and it is the Spirit of Truth that Sanctifyes and Justifyes the Righteous or Obedient that reproves the world of sin c. And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men love darkness rather then light c. Joh. 3. So in this matter thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the Scriptures Pr. Where there are many Words of God being taken together they are called the Word of God An. Thou mightest as well say that many words and one word are both one Where provest thou thy assertion For in contradiction to this presently after the Scriptures call Christ the Word of God in some places and sure the Scriptures and Christ are distinguished they are not Christ. Pr. K. 8.46 That there is no man liveth and sinneth not It doth not say there is no man liveth and hath not sinned An. He that abideth in Christ the second Covenant sinneth not but is redeemed out of that state in which there is no man that sinneth not and John said If we say we have not sinned we make him a liar c. 1 Joh. 1.10 Pr. Their begetting is in order of nature before their faith An. Wheâ—e provest that Is begetting in the unbelief then and not in the Faith whereas the Word which begetteth is the Word of Faith and profits not where t is not mixed with Faith within Pr. Those of your way have held out to the world that to have Hebrew Greek and Latine is a mark of Antichrist An. Thou hast often wronged those of our way as thou hast in this wherein thou art answered at first Pr. Those who tell us of a faith in Christ without the Scriptures have no Light in them Secondly There are many things which we think and desire against the Law
which the Light within would never have discovered if there had not been the knowledg of the Law contained in the Scriptures An. Are all unbelievers then and have no Light in them but who have the Scriptures Thy blindness in this is detected before And What contradiction is it to tell of some having no Light in them when before thou hast confessed all men to have a natural Light or the Light of a natural Conscience in them Secondly And was it the Scriptures or the Law as it is in the Letter that discovered to Paul his sins and desires or the Law inward For he had the Law outward before he knew or was turned to the Law in his mind or was clâ—arly convinced in himsâ—lf Pr. Did ever the Prophets or Apostles try the Doctrines of persons deluded by Satan with the Spirit without the Scripture Deut. 13. An. The Prophets and Apostles had the Spirit and knew its sufficiency before they gave forth Scriptures and these were not deluded by Satan as falsly thou hast accused us to be An. Have not some of your way been so blasphemous as to aver Jesus Christ to be a type as to call themselves the Messiah to whom Hosanna should be said An. I know none in our way that either calls themselves the Messiah or that own such a thing but coâ—fess to Jesus Christ as bâ—ing the substance and the end of types shadows and figures but as for those whom thou hints of about their saying Hosanna they were not in our way but testified against and some of themselves came after to see confess and repent of their error so to upbraid us with any one 's failings or miscarriage espetially when t is both disowned and testifyed against by us this is both unequal and unjust and wouldest thou be so dealt by if I should go to reckon up how many drunken and whoreing Priests thâ—re be and should charge all of you and your whole Kirk with their wickedness Wouldest thou take it well Which indeed I might better do whilest such are owned and upheld as teachers of others among you thâ—n thou mights accuse us with persons and actions that are cast out from amongst us Pr. What is the Rule whereby the motions of the Spirit are to be tryed whether they be such or the motions of Satan and our deceitful hearts Ye answer the Spirit is the Rule but this cannot be for the Spirit hath given the Scriptures Secondly Neither is that place which ye cite to the purpose Viz. The Anoynting teacheth all things for though he teach it is by this Rule An. Yes The Spirit of God is sufficient a Rule sufficient both to try the motions of Satan and your deceitful hearts it searcheth all things The Lord searcheth the hearts and tryeth the reines telleth unto man his thoughts And if the Anoynting within teacheth of all things Must the Scriptures be a Rule to the Anoynting that thou seemest to tye it to the Scriptures Or Is not the teaching of the Anoynting Scripture as well as it was in them that spoke Scripture from it Or Must not people believe the Anoynting till they have searched the Scriptures to try it by them If so then when the Anoynting would tell and shew them their perticular states and thoughts and motions which the Scriptures do not tell them nor perticularly charge upon them then they are not at all in such cases to believe nor follow the Anoynting according to thy Doctrine and what is this but to set up the Scriptures above the Anoynting and the Letter above the Spirit which is a gross error and bespeaks great ignorance Pr. In the Synod at Jerusalem Act. 15. the Apostles searched the Scriptures for what they determined before they said it seemed good to the holy ghost and us An. Where provest thou that they searched the Scriptures for what they determined before they said it seemed good to the holy ghost and us Doth not this plainly confute thee that what they said was from the holy ghost And Was not its teaching their Rule then And What Scripture had they then to forbid Circumcision as they did Nay Had they not Scripture raâ—her for it If then they had not Scripture to forbid it they should not have dâ—nied or forbid it nor have believed the holy ghost in this case by thy Doctrine what silly work hast thou made on 't and How hast thou broken the neck of thy own cause Pr. The gift of discerning of Spirits was a peculiar gift given but to some but this was not for tryal of Doctrine None who had that gift of discerning of Spirits did try any Truths or Doctrine or practice but by the Scripture An. This is a strange Doctrine that they must onely try Spirits by the gift or Spirit of Truth and not any Truths or Doctrine Whether is greater the tryal of Spirits or of Doctrines Whâ—reas the Spirit searchâ—th all things and is a Spirit of true Judgment that giveth true understanding but according to thy false Doctrine that none who had discerning of Spirits did try any Truths or Doctrine or practice but by the Scriptures Then by this when the Apostles in their Epistles writ divers things that were not before in the Scriptures they were not to be believed by them in the Churches that had the gift of discerning and when the Spirit of Truth shall lead to speak or prophesie concerning a perticular Place People or Nation that which they have no Scripture for this therefore is not to be believed for want of Scripture to prove it by Thy ignorant and sottish stuff which also excludes all those Books and Prophesies of the holy men of God spoken of which are not recordâ—d in the Bible And those of our Friends which foretold of the late calamities befallen the City of London both that of the â—lague and that of the Fire which were both fore-seen and fore-told yet they had no Scripture to prove it but alass such as thou are silly and shallow in these matters being but as those Seers and Watchmen that are blind who would insinuate into people that both Prophesying Visions and Revelations are ceasâ—d and lay all upon the Scriptures and then how know you the Doctrine contained in them to be true without the Spirit Pr. Ye say Must the Scriptures be the Rule to discern or try false Spirits when they speak Scripture Ans. When the Devil spake Scripture to Christ he confuted him by Scripture which shewed he had perverted them and so he confounded the Scribes and Pharisees alwayes An. But could not Christ discerne the Devils spirit without the Scriptures What gross error and ignorance is implyed and couched in this thy impertinent answer Thou tellest us Christ confuted him by the Scripture which was when the Devil brought Scripture words to back his Temptations withal which is not an answer besides the Devils tempting Christ in these words Command that these stones be made bread and Cast thy self down
taken from him by a greater then he We have peace with God but are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was Elias We are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ. Aâ—l passions are not sinful passions for passions are sufferings for it could not be that Paul and Barnabas were subjects to the like sins with those Idollaters Act. 14.13 14 15. when subject to like passion with them Here is another Arminion and Popish error that believers may fall from Grace A believer may fall Peter and David sinned foully Surely their sinning so foully was not in the Faith but when they were turned from it which required their repentance That Peter and David fell from Faith is an Arminion and Popish error Evil works come not from Faith Then the evil works they did were out of and against the Faith and had they stood in the Faith they had been kept from those evil works Peter and David had their failings Viz. till deaâ—h Eliah an old Prophet subject to like passion as we are c. Christ said to Peter I have prayed for thee that thy Faith fail not When thou art converted strengthen thy brethren Doth signify when he should be fully recovered And surely Peter was so converted or fully recovered as to strengthen his Brethren before his decease and like passions were like sufferings which may relate to sickness Jaâ— â— 13 14. or other afflictions for Paul and Barnabas were not subject to the like Sins or Idollatry with those heathens Act. 14.15 It is not sad Doctrine as you say but comfortable that as believers may fall as Peter and David whereas he doth not fall wholly away but hath still the Seed of Grace remaining in him p. 24. The sad breach that Peters fall made on his Soul did weaken his Grace and cloud his comforts very much There are remains of sin within us which we are to mourn for If sin did very much cloud his comforts and be the cause of mournings as it was both to David and Peter then for you to plead for sin term of life cannot be a comfortable Doctrine unless to such as be hardened in sin and take pleasure in it Which improvment of the Light within must indeed come from free will and consequently ye hold Merit We must put on the whole armour of God and war against sin pa. 23. Do not they improve the Light who war against sin and this is not of or from mans will in the Fall but from the power that converts and works in him to will and to do There are remains of sin within us while we live here which we are to mourn for The kingdom of God is Righteousness Peace Joy in the holy ghost Twenty sixth Page Therefore sin which is the cause of sorrow hath no place in the kingdom of God which the Saints attain to here Faith is an habit and an imperfect creature Saving Faith is given of God and is a saving enlightning of the Soul to know Christ Faith is a Sanctifying Light What strange Doctrine is this that an imperfect creature is a Saviour an Enlightener a Sanctifier and doth the Kirk of Scotland receive this for Orthodox The Gift of God is perfect and every good and perfect Gift comes from God Those who tell us of a Faith in Christ without Scriptures have no Light in them pa. 28. Twenty sixth Pag. The Jewes wilfully rejected the Light and shut their eyes against it wicked men who rebel against the Light have the Light of a natural Conscience and the common work of the Spirit Then they had the Light and the work of the Spirit is not natural but no Light in them excludes natural Light as well as spiritual from being in them whereas in that Isa. 8.20 it should be no morning in stead of no Light Jesus Christ bid them search the Scriptures for to find him in them They might have Life by the true spiritual knowledg of Faith these who believed and had Life did own the Light within and who denieth that is Christ sheweth by the Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within Now Supernatural Knowledg Light within Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within is confessed but another while imediate teaching power c. is denied by those who think to find Christ in the Scriptures but Is that Christ that suffered at Jerusalem to be found in the Scriptures How blind are you Priests of Scotland The Child of God cannot sin Totally and Finally There is no man liveth and sineth not Those for whom Christ hath given himself he Redeemeth from all iniquity How from all iniquity and yet sin so much contended for by you These all for whom Christ died cannot be meant of each individual person of the world how are they lost if he came to save them this argueth defect of wisdom to foresee want of power to effect his intention pa. 31. He died for all some have wilfully rejected the Grace given that wilfully trample under foot the blood of the Son of God There is neither defect of wisdom nor want of power in Christ but wilfulness and rebellion in man that lets he died for all his Grace is freely tendered that they may believe and be saved But this is not by absolute compulsion and force as if therefore he were absolutely intended to save all but Love and Good Will is shewed towards all many wilfully reject and trample upon it as is confest Motions of Satan and our deceitful hearts are to be tried it is comfortable Doctrine that a believer may fall as David and Peter Those that got a new heart from God and his fear put in them they do not depart nor revolt It is the deceitful hearts that are comforted with such Doctrine that is for falling as David and Peter did and not the new heart in which Gods fear is put The Scriptures do reveal the Mysteries pa. 27. Jesus Christ sheweth by the Spirit of Revelation and Wisdom within pa. 30. The Scriptures testifie of the Mysteries but then Christ by that Spirit within Reveales them The Scriptures being many words of God taken together they are called the Word of God pa. 25. The Scriptures calleth Christ the Word of God in some places Christ the Word was before the Scriptures or the Words besides one word is not many words nor many words properly to be taken for one word Is not the Father distinct from the Son and the Spirit in the personal Subsistance pa. 31. Both the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are a Spirit pa. 33. Both â—or all a Spirit and yet distinct in personal Subsistance Where learned you this Doctrine Not from the Scriptures Ye do not own what the Scriptures assert but your own blasphemous fancies Viz. about the Deity three Persons distinct in the personal Subsistance pa. 32. Ye say ye own what the Scriptures of Truth assert of the God-head That there are three that bear record in heaven
The Principal Controversies BETWEEN The Litteral Presbyters of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ CALLED QUAKERS Truly Collected Stated and Opened in a particular Reply herein specified for general Information and undeceiving the deceived By an earnest Contender for the most Holy Faith which was once delivered to the Saints G. W. 1 Tim. 6.20 Avoiding prophane and vain babling and oppositions of science falsly so called 2 Pet. 2.12 But these as natural bruit Beasts speak evil of the things they understand not c. Vers. 13. Sporting themselves with their own deceivings Vers. 14. Having Eyes full of Adultery and that cannot cease from sin Printed in the Year 1672. A Brief Introduction Reader HErein is asserted the real sufficiency of Divine Illumination and Inspiration together with the Doctrine of the Saints Perfection in Christ and his Universal Light and Grace to Mankind and thereby the real Use and End of the Holy Scriptures made known and the pretious Truths therein Owned and Vindicated from the gross Errours Perversions Absurdities Reproaches manifest Confusions and Contradictions of some Rigid Presbyters of Scotland to whom this Tract containes a brief Reply in many short Paragraphs which was thus occasioned Viz. Some of the Presbyterian Priests or Teachers in Scotland having some years ago writ a great bundle against us the People of God called Quakers in a way of slighting and deriding some things of Truth which above ten years ago I wrote in Answer to a Paper containing a pretended Answer to 26 Queries of Geo. Fox's Junior with some Queries written by one Edw. Jamison in whose Name with two more the said bundle against us was conveyed in Manuscript to divers hands as a pretended Answer to mine which providentially after a long time was brought to my hands about four years ago which then I perused and collected the principal Heads and Passages in it both of Doctrine seeming Argumentation and their Objections which I have here inserted in their own very words as I have their Book in Manuscript to evince and I wrote a Reply to each particular for the clearing the Truth and to manifest his and their abuse thereof and their gross perversion of the holy Scriptures together with their self Contradictions which are very apparent and easie to be seen by any unbyassed And not only their weakness and defection appears but their enmity against the Doctrine of Perfection both as it relates to the truly Sanctified and to their Faith and graces which these Presbyters accuse not only with Imperfection but with Sin Their darkness against the Light of Christ within Their cruel partiallity against the free extent of Saving Grace their sinful unbelief against the Sufficiency of the Holy Spirits teaching their gross ignorance and scorn against Divine Inspiration and Immediate Teaching in these dayes their carnal mindedness for their Traditional Ordinances of men against the Spiritual Dispensation of the Gospel and New Covenant wherein the Antitype of all even the enduring substance and heavenly things themselves are enjoyed by the clear sighted Children of the day beyond and above all Types Shadows and outward Representations or Memento's whatsoever These and the like things are spoken to in my following Reply A Coppy whereof was sent into Scotland for those concerned soon after it was written whereof as I am informed Edw. Jamison had a Coppy but since I had no further Answer nor Reply from him And now since some of our Friends in Scotland considering that there would be a service in making the following Reply more Publick and knowing that the said Edw. Jamison with divers more of his Brethren are of contentious and boasting spirits and yet seem not ready or willing to take notice of such things as pinch them while not made Publick as in this Case divers of our Friends in Scotland have hereupon desired the Printing and Publishing of this my Reply And in Answer to their Requests I have given them my first Copy thereof to divulge desiring that all who Read it may weigh the things therein contained and that they eye and have regard to that Light of the Son of God in their Consciences which manifests those things that are reprovable and is able to endue the Creature with a Right Judgment between those things that are of God and those things that differ and so to try all things and hold fast that which is Good London the 22th day of the 6th Mon. 1672. From a Real Friend to all who desire to know the Way of Life and Peace George Whitehead THE PRINCIPAL CONTROVERSIES BETWEEN The Litteral Professors of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ called Quakers c. Here are the Doctrines and Principles of some of the Presbyterian Priests of Scotland Collected out of a great Bundle in Manuscript Subscribed Edw. Jamison with other two Names on the outside viz. Oswald Harland Edward Orde Together with the Heads of many of his corrupt Reasons and perverse Arguments against the Truth and Scriptures which are here detected and the People of God called Quakers vindicated from his and their Aspersions Calumnies and false Accusations therein The Priest YOV Have renounced Learning as Antichristian Answer That 's false For not Learning in it self simply considered do we renounce but the absurd and corrupt Idolatrous Use of it by men of corrupt mindes who have not Learned of Christ but in their Antichristian Spirit deny his Immediate Teachings Priest Absurd arguings against clear and abundant Scripture-Proofes which have been held forth by far more able than I am Therefore that my Answers have not Converted you is not to me either Strange or a Disappointment Answer False again I argue not against clear Scripture c. but against thy abusing and perverting of it as will yet further appear and much unprofitable labour thou mightest have spared and forborn whilst thy end was not to convert us what was it for to insult and boast over us And yet art far short of some that have dealt with us if we were conquered and confuted before hadst thou a mind to shew thy vallor over us thou hast missed of this end also Priest I have born witness to the Truth against your way Answ. Thou hast born witness to his work who is the Father of Lies against the Truth as will further appear to the shame of thee and thy confederates Priest There can hardly be brought any absurdity grosser for defence of your Cause then it self c. Answ. Then it was gross and absurd in thee to make raise and forge so many absurdityes upon our Cause as thou hast done though they be very groundless light frothy and frivilous as in this sequel will appear and become more obvious to the impartial spectators Priest The Light the Spirit Kingdom within are taken in a dangerous unsound sence by Quakers in an enthusiastick sence as communicate without Scripture Answ. It s both dangerous and
which gave them forth and to him whom they testify of to wit Christ by whom they are to be fulfilled unto the true believer that reads them in a right mind and Spirit Secondly But where having Life in them Viz. in the Scriptures is laid down as following believing This is an error depending upon the former and a contradiction to the Scripture that saith That believing ye might have Life through his name he doth not say in the Scriptures nor by searching them but through his name of whom they testify and those to whom these things were written that they might beleive that Jesus is the Christ c. and have Life through his name They were in some measure prepared by the Spirit or Light of Christ allready manifested to receive those things which tendâ—d to the furtherance of their Faith and confirmation of their Belief concerning Christ that they might have life through his name Pr Whoso holdeth this denieth them really and interpretatively Answ. Is this thy proof of thy false accusation against us of denying the Scriptures that we deny them interpretatively so then our denying the Priests Interpretations upon Scripture which are not Scripture must be deemed a denial of Scriptures as if they were either the same or of equall authority with Scripture or when they tell us of finding Life in the Scriptures we must take it for granâ—ed that they mean in their Interpretations upon them whereby in many things they contradict plain Scripture as hath been proved any times so however when they bid People search the Scriptures for Life Eternal in them they intend they should take their meanings along with them and believe as they say and so people must run into an implicite Faith if they take things on their Authority and Credit for by their meanings and Interpretations they can sit as Judges over Scriptures and tell people they must give the sence and reconcile them and over the Ligâ—t and Spirit within and tell them its but an Enthusiastick Fancy but who are not so Ignâ—ble as to receive a Belief or Faith from them on such a dark implicite and slender account as this of Priests But wait in the Light of Christ within for a right understanding of things that are Spiritual relating to Faith and Salvation Such find they have cause from the certain demonstration and testimony of the Spirit of Truth within to believe Christs Light and Spirit rather then the Priests meanings and private Interpretations wrestings and perverting of Scriptures Priest It is not about the expression of the Word of God that debate should be kept up if in a sound sence granted that they are called the Words of God Answ. So Then the Scriptures are granted to be words of God why then holdst thou debate against us but to shew thy cavilling Spirit For the Word was that from whence words and Scriptures procâ—eded and came to the Prophets and Messengers of God before they spoke the words to Write them Priest Ye deny that Faith cometh by hearing of the Scriptures which is the Word of God for that we receiving them by Faith are saved which is plainly asserted Joh. 5.39 Answ. We deny that Faith comes barely by hearing the Scriptures for if it did so come then all that hear or read Scriptures must have Faith and hear the Word but we see the contrary and Christ told the Jewes they could not understand what he said because they could not hear his words and yet they could hear Scriptures and him speak outwardly to them But this is a mistery hid from such as thou art and there were those whom the Word Preached did not profit bâ—cause it was not mixt with Faith in them Priest Your selves acknowledg that they are the words of God then this or that perticular saying is the Word of God seeing there is a singular where there is a plural Answ. But Singular and Plural differs and though there be a Singular included where there is a Plural is it therefore good Logick to say that Singular includes Plural or they are both one Or to saâ— that because there are Words of God in the Scriptures and where there are words in the Plural there must needs be a word in the Singular therefore these words are the Word and so are the Scriptures Is this thy Lâ—arning and Logick Surely thou art so far from knowing the Word which lives for ever and was before either the Scriptures or words in it were given out that thou art yet as one senceless and confounded in thy expressions and cavilling against â—ruth Priest The Scriptures in the Bible are called the Word of God Mark 7.13 Answ. This is a very general expression of the Scriptures in the Bible being the Word of God when they do not say so of themselves whereas all the Scriptures in the Bible are so far from terming themselves the Word of God in such an eminent expression that they cannot all be truely termed his Words there being in many places Recorded both words of Wicked men and Devils though the Historical part that relates these things be true as to the narration of them And they Mark 7.13 that made the word of God of none effect by their Tradition and rejected his Commandment did really act contrary to the Word within which Moses preached and against the Law of God without so that 's no proof of the Scriptures in the Bible being called the Word Priest That which maketh wise to Salvation or maketh the man of God perfect c. is inspired of God that is the Word of God which maketh wise profiteth 2 Tim. 3.15 Answ. Here again hast thou fallen short of proof of thy matter for where it is said All Scripture is given by Inspiration of God c. Is is added So it 's All Scripture given by inspiration But if that must be called the Word of God in thy sence then it may be read All the Word of God is given by Inspiration of God How will that sound and signify Or All the Word of God given by inspiration of God c. See thy ignorance and impertinency for though we grant that all Scripture given by Divine Inspiration is profitable to the man of God for the making Wise to Salvation but it is through Faith which words through Faith I find theâ— to have taken little notice of if any or of his being the man of God first that knows the profit of the Scriptures which are given by Inspiration that he may be Perfect which the Priests deny in denying Perfection and that he may be thorowly furnished And many things were written and directed to the Saints and not to the world c. But what thou concludest from hence doth not follow Priest Is there any Prophesie almost or Book of the Scripture but it calleth the things contained in them the Word of God Thus saith the Lord c. Answ. For as was hinted there are many things written in the Scripture
what his thoughts are and searcheth the heart who both can and doth spâ—ak what he pleaseth both of things declared in Scriptures and without them as he sees meet to the perticular states of men and persons and so to lay so much upon Scriptures which belongs to God and Christ and is properly their Work is unsound And Whâ—re provest thou the Scriptures search the thoughts And wherâ— say they so of themselves when they do not speak and direct to any perticular Person and shew him his thoughts and actions perticularly which the Light doth And the Spirit of Truth reproves and convinceth of the several evils whereof persons are guilty It s the Lord that sets their sins in order before them Priest It is false That any have a sincere supernatural Faith of the Scriptures that are ignorant of Christ c. They testify of him Answ. So then they must have some knowledg of Christ and from thence have a supernatural Faith of the Scriptures But how doth this agree with much more of thy work about searching the Scriptures for Life Eternal in them for begetting Faith c. Priest The foundation of the Saints and houshold of God are the Phrophets and Apostles Jesus Christ being the cheif corner-stone Eph. 2.20 Answ. Were not the Prophets and Apostles of that houshold of God If they were then they were their own foundation according thy to assertion here but thou hast wronged the Scripture for it was the foundation of the Propheâ—s and Apostles mark of the Prophets and Apostles they were built upon Christ Jesus the cheif corner stone Priest By the Prophets and Apostles that are the foundation is meant their Doctrine contained in the Scriptures not the persons Answ. Their Foundation was before their Doctrine or Scriptures Another foudation can no man lay then that which is already laid which is Christ But sure the Prophets and Apostles and Scriptures were not he Priest The Scripture makes known inward sins of thoughts and lusts Rom 7.7 Is able to makâ— the man of God perfect if they did not search into the thoughts of the heart discovering who are blind and carnal How can they make Wise unto Salvation Doth not the Scriptures make us Wise unto Salvation Therefore Are they not able to save us Christ as the principle cause of our Salvation is said alone to save us Answ. Thou meanest Christ as the principle searcher or the Spirit but the Scriptures as the instrument and then thou shouldest have said Christ makes known inward sins the Spirit searcheth all things And God Judgeth the secrets of men by Christ according to the Gospel without the knowledg of Christ there 's no supernatural faith of the Scriptures nor can any be made Wise unto Salvation but through that Faith And that Christ and the Spirit makes use of speaks and opens things contained in the Scripture many times Who denies that For then he speaks and opens those things immediately and thus the Law was made convincing to Paul not before it came thus and if on that account they be the instrumental cause then its Christ or the Spirit by hâ—s own speaking or teaching and openings that is the searcher and saviour And then it were most proper to lay the stress upon him as the searcher and Saviour and not thus often tell of the Scriptures being the searcher of the thoughts and of having in them Life Eternal lest also that ignorant persons go Idolatrously according to the tendency of much of thy matter to put them in the place of Christ or seek to make them the Saviour seeing that Christ the principle cause of our Salvation as thou confessest is said alone to save us and if he alone save its sufficient people be directed to him for that end for in him all sufficiency is who can now immediately speak matters contained in the Scriptures as well as when they were first given by inspiration And it is the inspiration of the Allmighty that giveth the true understanding without which the right use and end of the Scripture is not known Priest The Scriptures of Truth not I make four Saviours Viz. The ingrafted Word Faith Scriptures Timothy c. Answ. To us there is but one God one Christ one absolute Saviour one Faith c. Priest There is a Faith of the Scriptures that is historical this is not sufficient but this Faith may be of Christ as well and yet they not be saved but who has saving unfeigned Supernatural Faith of Scriptures cannot waâ—t it of Christ. Answ. Well Then this saving Supernatural Faith of Scripture and of Chrâ—st must come fâ—om a Supernatural Light or Christ who is thâ— Light and Author of Faith Priest How shall they believe without a Preacher sent Joh. 20. verse last They must have the Scriptures who have the knowledge of Christ for without this they cannot be kept from hell Answ. Who must send them if there be no immediate Teaching or Revelation now How provest thou thy Call from Scripture and that thou art Comissionated by Christ to Preach Thou shouldest rather have said they must have Christ who truely know the Scriptures and without him they cannot be kept from hell Priest In thâ—se Commandments written is our Life Deut. 30.15 16. Answ. The Word and Commandment was nigh them in their hearts that they might obey it and walk in the Commandments and live see Verses 11 12 13 14 15. how herein thou hast diminished and wrested Scripture and that Word which was nigh in the heart the Apostles preached It doth not say in the Commandments written is your Life Priest But that all Nations have the knowledg of Christ It s in an Enthusiastical Bible c These places He enlightens every man that cometh into the world and hath no respâ—ct of Persons are far wide from this conclusion therefore all have the knowledg of Christ all the Turks Jewes Pagans c. Oh! What monstrous horrid Doctrine c. Answ. It is not our Assertion nor Conclusion that all Nations or People have the knowledg of Christ herein hast thou abused us and our Principle for though he enlightens all they all do not walk in the Light nor believe in it But all Nations and People that come ever to know Christ and be saved must walk in his Light Who is the Way the Truth and the Life Priest Christ as he is God equal with the Father hath planted some Light of a natural conscience in every man of the world Answ. In him was life and the life was the light of men And he was that light which enlighteth every man that comes into the world who is not natural nor his Light that shines from him in the Conscience And God is Light who enlightens the World and gave his good Spirit in the dayes of old to the Rebellious and sent his Son a Light into the World That whosoever believes on him might not perish but have eternal life And here is the power and
of Envy who were not sanctified for such a work Pr. Your reason that wâ—thout Christ we can do nothing is to be meant in a Supernatural way Answ. Is not that in a Supernatural way which is without Error and Jangling and good and acceptable to God Pr. If they believe them to bâ— true do they not know them Answ. No All that believe them to be true do not know them for thou hast granted an historical Faith of Scripture Pr. He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Joh. 6.44 Answ. But all that have read and heard Scripture have not heard nor learnd of the Father nor come to Christ. Pr. None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. Answ. This is according to what I say and overthâ—ows very much of thy matter according as hath been largely proved before Pr. He will lead believers into all Truths this is the meaning That is he will keep them from a total and final defection from Truths necessary to Salvation and lead them into Truths which are thus necessary c. Answ. This acknowledges in part to the truth of what I have said also to the Spirits leading into all Truth yea into all Truths necessary to Salvation And then the Spirit of Truth is sufficient for us to depend upon for this leading and preservation Pr The Disciples all of them except Judas had received the Sanctifying Spirit Answ How hast thou excepted Judas from the Sanctifying Spirit when he had part of the Ministery which his transgression was the cause of his falling from Pr. They were all ignorant of the Resurrection and mistook the nature of Christs Kingdom as if it had been of this world Luk. 24.21 Act. 1.6 The Galatians who had received the Spirit yet were they led into Error Answ. If they that had received the Spirit might erre in these matters much more they that had no Sanctifying Knowledg which contradicts thy former of their preaching of Truths without Errors Pr. He did not tell them ye erre not having the Spirit but not knowing the Scriptures Answ. The Scriptures they could not truely know without some Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ as before confest or of the power of God to salvation so their ignorance of the Scriptures in a Supernatural sence was from their ignorance of the power of God which unvails the heart to read and understand them Pr. For what ye say we plead for sin it doth more duely fall on the Doctrine that saith believers may totally fall as you say Peter by his denial did and David likewise by c. Answ. Nay To say there are believers that may fall from Grace who are not yet come to an established and grown state in the Truth and Power of God is no pleading for sin as your Doctrine contending and disputing for sin in all term of Life especially whiles we exhort all to watch and look dilligently to Grace received and withal warn them c. that such a falling away may be prevented for it was no pleading for sin in the Apostles to warn the Churches by the example of some that fell or of such as made shipwrack of faith and a good conscience or of such as drew back to perdition denied the Lord that bought them and such whose latter end was worse then their beginning But to charge us with saying that Peter and David fell totally this is a slander and forgery against us as there are many more in thy bundle Pr. If our peace stood in our inherent Righteousness c. in our good works c. Answ. Inherent Righteousness are thy own words obtruded upon us in thy own sence as imperfect and so in that sence not Gods nor Christs for in Gods Righteousness received in Christ by faith our peace stands and of this the true believers are pertakers in them they being in that living Faith the Righteousness whereof is not devided from it Pr. Davids Peace stood not in the freedom from all sin but in that God did pardon his sin and did not impute the same Rom. 4.6 7 8. Secondly If none ever had or shall have Peace here on earth but such as are in this Life free from all sin then you alone may boast of it c. Answ. He whose Transgression is forgiven The man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity in his spirit there is no guile Psa. 32.1 2. And David bid Mark the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace And blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity c. And in this state stood Davids Peace contrary to what thou hast Erroniously spoke of him here Secondly And what thou hast said of our being free from all sin that we alone might boast of it this thou dost not believe of us and therefore hast ironically Scoffed and Jeered contrary to thy own thoughts and intentions And in implying none on earth free from all sin hast again erred and art herein sufficiently confuted allrâ—ady thou having herein implyed none here ever born of God none here to abide in Christ or come to perfect Holyness or to be washed from all sin by the Blood of Christ So thy Doctrine is contrary to the Apostles Pr. For none either of the Prophets Apostles or Saints that we find in Scriptures ever were thus quallified for Peace Answ. This seems to be a large and general charge against the Prophets and Apostles who generally contrary to this Doctrine testifyed unto the Peace of God which is perfect which attends the Righteousness or heavenly Image of God which is also perfect and known in the new Covenant whereby he takes away sin and establisheth his people in Righteousness and the Prophets could testify that the Lord was their Righteousness who wrought all their works in them and to the true Apostles Christ was made wisdom righteousness sanctification so thou you have shewn your selves ignorant of the Scriptures and of the Prophets and Apostles states and quallifications and what sin or sins they all had which they or any of them were not freed from before death is not yet proved by any of you who are found in the work of the old accuser of the Brethren Pr. Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children c. except ye had made appear that Pauls Will and Affections and Mind were perfectly against sin Some stain and inclination to sin by the contrary corruption still remained in some degrees in his Will Mind and Affections c. Answ. This is a sad accusation against all Gods Children againe and what is this but a pleading for sin and tending to strengthen the hands of evil doers What all the faculties of Gods Children having sin and corruption in them The Priests were wont to tell of a Regenerate part What part is it No faculty clean sad newes Thus to accuse Pauls Will Mind and Affections as having
they can serve him no longer Pr. They may mean and understand that the perfect holiness of both Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrestion which is nothing differing from that which I say I do not say that the Body in the grave is capable of holiness till it be raised Answ. If this doth nothing differ from what thou sayest it s very strange didest not say a little before upon his dying What 's done upon his dying Is he made wholy free from Sin yea or nay If thou meanest onely the Soul that that 's onely freed from Sin at death or upon dying and not the Body till it be raised as thou sayest Then what becomes of the Sins and impurity of the Body in the mean time or the defilments and pollutions thereof Doth it dye with the Body seeing the Soul is pure when it ascends to God Or if the Body be not capable of Sin in the grave Then where is the being of unholiness and corruption to be done away so long after death as is imagined Or to say that perfect holyness of both Soul and Body is not till the Resurrection how long after death you know not Doth not this make for the Papists imagination of a Purgatory For if the being throughly purged from all unholiness be not till after death it must be some where but this your Doctrine is contâ—ary to the Apostles who said How can we that are dead unto sin live any longer therein And being made free from sin c. He hath washed us from our sins in his own blood c. Pr. From Pro. 24 16 It cannot be so properly said The godly fall seven times into trouble and riâ—e again Answ. Yes The godly falls into many troubles and afflictions but God delivereth them out of them all And he is with them in six troubles and in seven he will not forsake them And its plain from that of Pro. 24.15 16. that the just mans falling sevâ—n times and rising again is of another nature then the wickeds falling into mischief for in verse 15 16. its said Lay not wait O wicked man against the dwelling of the righteous spoyl not his resting place For a just man falleth seven times and riseth up again but the wicked fall into mischief It is not said as many of you have wronged the Scripture that the Righteous man sins seven times a day yea some of the Priests and Professors have not onely said so but have also said that the most Righteous man that is or ever was sins seven times a day which is a deceit and corruption put upon Scripture Pr. As for my saying a day it was a mistake of the citation of the place though it s not contrary to sence for Christ saith to Peter that he should forgive his Brother seventy times seven times which implyeth that a Brother may offend in the day time A. If he who is a Brother may offend in the day time Doth it therefore follow that all the godly or brethren do fall into sin seven times a day And wilt thou to serve thy perverse and corrupt end say in that a Brother may offend seventy times seven therefore he Sinneth seven times every day all his time Surely thy implicite consequence is a mistake and error and thou hast wronged the Scriptures as well as thy citation of the place mentioned But we see thou wilt stand by the Devils Cause though thou comest never so feebly off yea and fall with it Pr. I grant that the Child of God cannot Sin totally and finally and whoso doth it is of the Devil Answ. Herein again thou hast wrested and added to the Scripture as often before Totally and Finally are thy own words and not the words of John who affirmed That he that 's born of God sinneth not neither can he To say he that commits Sin Totally and Finally is of the Devil Is this all the distinction of the Devils Servants and Children from the Children of God How miserably hast thou pleaded Gods Childrens cause Surely they have no Reason to be beholding to thâ—e but may justly exclude thee for wronging of them Pr. In the sence ye imply it that he who Sinneth at all or in whom their 's any defect thus none living then ever knew or saw him Those who are commended for knowing him Sinned Secondly Job cursed his day David what sad falls he had is known Jeremiah the Apostles all of them Answ. That he that Sinneth and is of the Devil and that he that Sinneth not who is of God are two contrary births and that which is born of the spirit is spirit as that which is born of the flesh is flesh which if thou knewest the difference of and were seperated from the evil and joyned to the good thou wouldest not go about to confound them nor grosly to pervert the Scriptures and to accuse Gods Birth or Child as thou hast done Secondly And why doest thou not tell us of their deliverances as well as their falls and of their conquest which by dâ—grees they obtained in their Life time But this would make against thee and thy ill cause for Sin and Sathan whose work thou art in Pr You say a Believer is free from all Sin which we suppose you meant of a Believer from the very instant that he begins to be a Believer as ye said that the Spirit cannot be united unto Sin Answ. Nay It is not our Principle that a Believer from the very instant that he begins to be a Believer is free from all Sin thy supposition herein and much of thy matter grounded upon it is false thou hast gone about to overthrow our Principles when thou art yet to learn what we hold in this matter For a man is a Believer whilst in the faith he is warâ—ing against Sin and waiting to obtaine victory over it and to come into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God The victory is not obtained at the very first beginning of Gods work in a Soul but by degrees through Faith which purifies the hearts of them that believe and receive power in the Light of Christ and Spirit of Life to become the Children of God and of the Light which hath no unity with Sin nor can have with persons but as they forsake Sin and come out of it Pr. As you contradict your self so you do the Truth For can Sin be in any man and the actions flowing and the man not be Sinful If Sin be in a man doth it not defile him Answ. If the actions of Sin be flowing from a man he is sinful but there is a time when the Beleiver warreth against Sin and can say as Paul did It s not I that Sins but Sin that dwelleth in me And there 's a time wherein there be Sins that do easily beset and when Sin is presented in the Temptation when it is not yeilded unto but withstood and by degrees overcome by Faith in the power