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A20660 A disproufe of M. Novvelles reproufe. By Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinitie Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? 1565 (1565) STC 7061; ESTC S116516 309,456 442

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that euery one of them had he saide licence to vse the iudgement of his libertie and power Which worde pro licentia M. Nowel mangleth S. Cipriā yow guilefully lefte oute of youre translation showing youre selfe thereby to be no simple translatour but a crafty falsefier Now if they had licence in that councell of theirs euery man to saie frelye his minde if S. Cyprian saide that notwithstanding he was their archebishop and bishop off them all yeat for the present time he did renounce that auctoritie as in this sense his wordes are to be taken what maketh that against the auctoritie of the B. of Rome Dothe not the B. of Rome saye asmuch to all his fellow bishoppes in all general councelles Had not you the same offer made vnto you in the laste councell of Trent to haue bene quietly harde and no man by tirannie to haue bene compelled In saluo cōductu cōcilij Trident. to the necessitie of obeing If this answere satisfie you not let S. Augustine teache you the true vnderstanding of this place Who expounding August li. 3. ca. 3. cōtra Donat. these wordes of S. Cyprian Seing euery bishop hath according to the licence c. against the Donatistes writeth thus Opinor vtique in his quaestionibus quae nondum eliquatissima perspectione S. Cypriā expoūded by S. Austen discussae sunt Nouerat enim quantam sacramenti profunditatem tunc omnis ecclesia varia disputatione versabat liberum que faciebat quaerendi arbitrium vt examinata veritas panderetur I thinke verilie that is to saie that S. Cyprian meaneth in those questions which be not yeat by manifest examination discussed For he knewe what a depe misterie it was that was then tossed in the whole churche with ambiguouse disputations and made it free for euery one to searche and enquire that the truthe being examined might be reuealed Thus you see M. Nowell that youre falsehoode in leauing out in youre translation the worde pro licentia wil not helpe you S. Augustine by this worde liberum faciebat VVherein one bisshop cannot be iudged of another he gaue them licence expounding the meaning of S. Ciprian and telling vs beside that this place of bishoppes libertie whereby euerie one maye thinke what he will and can be iudged of no other is while thinges be not decided but remaine in doubte And therefore if you haue no other doctours or councelles to present to the pope but these yow did like a wise man to tarie at home That you saie that neither the texte of the scriptures nor the fol. 27. b. 7. interpretation of doctours nor iudgementes of councelles can haue any credite against the pope and bring Pighius to proue it that is a manifest lye For when Pighius saieth that for the A lye 22. moste parte there is nothing done in generall councelles but that the bishoppes comming together giue their consent to that which the Apostolike See decreed before he saieth not that it is so allwaies that it can be no otherwise As though the time of deliberation during the Apostolike See vpon the reasons of the councell might not be moued to decree that which otherwise it hath not determined he saieth not that against the pope neither the texte of the scriptures nor the interpretation of doctours nor iudgementes of councelles b. 24. can haue any credite And therefore moste impudently againe I tell yow yow haue belyed Pighius The councell is no councell if it lacke the auctoritie of the heade No generall councell without a head the B. of Rome And therefore you haue Pighius at no such aduantage because he saieth that the onely iudgement of the See of Rome is more sure then the iudgement of an vniuersall councell of the whole worlde which if it be true VVhy councelles be called then were it you saye for bishoppes to come to councelles a vaine thing Not so M. Nowell For although before God and with good men the iudgement arrested vpon by the see of Rome be certeinly true and can not deceiue yeat because men ignorant in the scriptures and lawes of the churche some of thē sometimes because heretikes for the repressing of whome councelles be most cōmonly called for the moste parte be not thus persuaded the pope vseth to communicate with the generall councell concerning decrees to be made The which being with generall consent approued and confirmed by the pope bothe the weake or vnlearned catholike maie be fully persuaded and the stubborne heretike with his owne weightes quite ouer weighed while bothe to the one and the other suche vniforme consent can not but argue the merueilouse grace and assistence off the holie gost An other cause maie be for that the pope by this meanes will be certified by the bishoppes off euery countrie what circumstances what maners of people in eache place maie require the decrees according to the nature of diuerse diseases to be losed slacker or streined harder For although he be so priuileaged that in making lawes for the churche he can not erre yeat hath he not the spirit of prophecie to knowe being absent all the offenses and imperfections in the churche Beside this where as otherwise it might euer be doubted whether the pope made any suche decrees or no in places farre distant from Rome hereby all suche occasion is taken awaie the bishoppes off euery countrie being present who be able to make faithe hereof to their subiectes Last of all this calling together of councelles is not in vaine while Christian princes being present and hearing all thinges debated promise the rather their assistance for the execution of suche thinges as shal be concluded And thus is this pelting obiection of youres answered Now to the next Pighius yow saye teacheth that to the see of Rome the ordering Nowell fo 28. a. 7. defining and determining of all questions and controuersies is giuen by Christe c. And the same dothe M. Dorman to teache in the 62. leafe b. out off pope Innocentius epistle That which I haue there affirmed I haue by the auctoritie Dorman not of Innocentius alone which yeat to anie reasonable Apud August epist. 90. 91. 92 93. man might seme inough considering that they were no babes to whome he wrote but euen by the auctoritie also of those fathers of the two councelles of Carthage and Mileuite especially of S. Austen expressely affirming that he answered them to all their questions euen as was right and for the bishop of the apostolicall See mete sufficiently proued Answere yow to it when yow shall be hable In the meane season it is true that I saide that the auctoritie of the B. of Rome is the fundation of all true religion the comfort and staye of the catholikes c. Against the whiche fewe wordes couched in lesse roome then fiue lynes yow haue not in fower leaues and more brought truly so muche as one worde but in the whole
and mine were so like in substance / that M. Iuell in one shoulde answere bothe / and that therfore his furder trauell shoulde be nedelesse whereas yowe knowe / that my seconde proposition the whole conclusion of my booke / haue no maner of agrement with any argument handled in D. Hardinges boke Yow haue heard the effecte of M. Nowelles smoky preface / wherin all his labour taken is bestowed to this end / to excuse the not speedy answering of the whole brotherhod / his own parcell answering / his so large earnest answering to so meane a man as I am / finally to deface me and other that haue written / by moste lewde / foolishe / and vntrue surmises Which neuerthelesse he aduoucheth so confidently / as though he had bene present at Louaine and priuey to all our doinges / and thoughtes / yea and to more then euer we thought toe Wherein how vaine he hath shewed him selfe to be / if nothing had bene saide allreadie / euen this that he hathe of M. Rastell / whome he affirmeth to haue had his booke lienge by him readye made foure yeares at Louayn whereas yeat he hathe bene Nowell in his praeface 3. side 35 Calfhill in his epistle to M. Martiall and praeface to the reader scarse on this side of the seas halfe foure yeare / at Louain whē he printed his booke not foure full monethes were alone sufficient to declare This deceitfull dealing of his / by defacing vs to the world / liked so wel hym that came nexte after him to wrighte / that he thought his parte not to be wel plaied / vnlesse he endeuoured also inforced him selfe to doe the like And for this cause forsothe ruffling in the figure of Ruffinis●us he calleth M. Doctor Harding * How muche better woulde this name haue becōmed M. Iuell that of a catholike became an heretike of an heretike a catholike of a catholike an heretike againe Apostata at my name he scoffeth calling me worthy Man who gaue but a Dor. M. Rastelles because it laye not so open to his scoffing spirite / he depraued vttrely / calling him Rascall But o I woulde it might please almighty God / who hathe bestowed vpon him whome he so calleth / so bountifully so manye excellent giftes of vertue and learning / that they were bothe thoroughly knowen to the worlde for suche as they are Then shoulde M. Rastell to speake the leaste / be founde to be as farre in all respectes from all base and vile condition / as this shamelesse man is him selfe from all honesty and Christian-like behauiour in so calling hym To M. Stapleton this painted poppet threateneth drye blowes / yeat wisely vnder an if / and in the name of an other The booke of Staphylus he compareth to a Ruffians sworde al to be hacked / calling by the waie a moste learned and graue councelour to the late Emperour Ferdinandus / Ruffian In dede there was a rude blacke * Iacobus Smidelinus smythe / that did the best he coulde to breake the edge and to leaue so●e gashes in this sworde / but those litle nickes that he made / the * Staphyl In defens Apol●g Calf fol. 17. b. 33. owner therof grounde out so conningly againe / that the edge of it was after more sharpe then euer it was before Lest al this should not be inough to discredite vs / last of all he chargeth suche of vs as being in Louain haue ben of newe colleage / withe the smoky styrres blowen in Scotland the fyry factions inflamed in Fraunce the Pholish treason condemned in England the popishe conspiracy attempted in Ireland Commeth not this thinke you of a high wit / and a greate discoursing heade Thankes be to God it is yeat no horned beaste that assaulteth vs thus cruelly He chargeth vs with gaping for bishoprikes / but surely if hym selfe laboured not ambitiously to be chiefe councelour to some lorde of misrule at Christmas / he woulde neuer haue stremed so farre the streightes of his simple brayne / as by this moste singuler discourse vpon these late troubles and treasons which beside him selfe neuer a man I beleue in England coulde haue dreamed of to giue a moste vndoubted experiment / what wonders he were able to worcke by his witte / if he listed to bende it But this is the lewdenesse of oure aduersaries / when to the doctrine that we defende they are able to saye nothing / to deface as muche as in them lieth our persones by vntrue surmises / by false and sclaunderouse reportes / by all meanes directe or indirecte For this they are once as it should seme by their doinges persuaded howe trulye God he knoweth that they shall be able to write nothing so absurde / that shall not with some get credite / and finde frendely entreteinement Wherfore this is good Readers the common request of vs all vnto yow / that reiecting vttrely these vaine / vntrue / and impertinenent exceptions of oure aduersaries / whereof youre eares be longe since full / it may please yow to haue a diligent eye to the matter it selfe / and not to suffer youre selues to be thus shamfully abused / and caried from thence to suche sciendre considerations as are these whether the writers be yong men / or olde many in conference / or fewe alone whether they wright in shorte space / or take long leisour whether they translate or make of their owne For surelye they that propose these exceptions / as it is an euident argument that they mistrust their cause / so seme they not to sauour of the spirite of humilitie / which seketh nothing but the honour and glorye If S. Cyprian writing this epistle to Cornelius the B. of Rome M. suell in his Replye fo 228. beginneth to ●hrincke from his chalenge name him either the high prieste or christes vicair generall in earthe or vniuersall bishop or head of the vniuersal church c. then may M. Harding seme to haue some honest colour for his defence For these respectes therfore I saie / and other which here for good causes I conceale / it hathe ben thought good to requier yowe / to signifie to vs / whether yowe will ratifie the doctrine conteined in that boke made against the crosse / lest after yow flee to the Praetor his exception Quod nomine meo gestum non est raiū nō habebo It is reason that we demaunde / and it is lawe Consulte youre lawier so well knowen in Oxforde for his three giftes of heresye / frenesy and Ialousy / and he will tell yow no lesse When we vnderstande youre minde herein / yowe shall knowe more of oures It woulde doe well that yow declared it at Powles crosse / from whence we are contented to take notice the rather / because we trust yow will saie nothing there / but that whereto yow will stande hereafter Faultes escaped in printing Leafe Syde Lyne Faulte Correction 23 a 25
preache Foxes testimonie of Saint Frauncis he thought to imitate the same in him selfe and his disciples and left of shoes 〈◊〉 but one coate and that of Vile clothe in stede of a latchet to 〈◊〉 and of a girdle he toke aboute him an hempen corde and ● appareled his disciples teaching them to fullfill for so he speaketh the perfection of the ghospell to apprehende pouertye and to walke in the waye of holye simplicie He left in writing to his disciples and folowers his rule which he called Regulam euangelicam i. the rule of the ghospel as though the gospel of Christ were not a sufficiēt rule to all Christian men but it must take his perfectiō of frātike Fraūcis Hetherto this frātike fox Now whether these be iust causes to storme and toke on as he dothe against this blessed saincte for either these be the causes or he giueth none at al let the wise and godly reader iudge Whereas he calleth him frantike for calling his rule the rule of the ghospel what woulde he haue sayed of him if he had termed it a rule of mannes inuention which nowe rageth so for calling it the rule of the ghospell But he quarelleth with him because by this rule giuen by him to his disciples it shoulde seme that the ghospell off Christe were not a sufficient rule c. O fonde man By that meanes might he also call S. Paule frantike for writing Folowe Philipp 3. me brethern and marke them whiche walke so as we haue giuen yow the example As thoughe the example of Christe were not sufficient but it must take his perfection in saint Paule For euen as S. Paule willed the Philippenses none otherwise to folowe him then as he folowed Christe so did saint Frauncis giue no other rule then Christe had giuen before as the title of his rule it selfe dothe declare And as S. Paule willed them to folowe him because he folowed Christ so deliuered S. Frauncis to those that would folow him that rule of Christe to be embrased in suche sorte as he had giuen them the example before This fox runneth on his course and spareth not with his taile to caste his vrine in mennes eyes For he addeth This Frauncis as he was superstitiouse Fox counteth it superstition to cast awaye worldly Goddes in casting all thinges from him euen also the girdle girding a coarde aboute him so in outewarde chastising of him selfe so streight he was to him selfe leauing the ordinarye remedye appointed by God that in winter season he couered his bodye with yse and snowe He called pouertie his ladie he kept nothing ouer night Merueile not nowe good reader if M. Nowell call religiouse men popishe schismes and sectes if he charge them with forsaking the religion and name of Christe when thow hearest the abandoning and casting awaye of worldly gooddes the embrasing of pouertie the free committing of a mannes selfe to Goddes prouidence without carcke or care what shall become of him on the morowe according to Christes owne counsell the chastising off Matth. 19. 6. the bodye to make it seruiseable to the spirite vsed by saint Paule when I saye thow hearest all this expressely called superstition ceasse to merueile anye longer Of this blessed 1. Cor. 9. saincte S. Frauncis I coulde saie muche listed I to make impertinent discourses Although of his vertue and holynesse there can be no greater testimonie then that his ennemies them selues can finde nothing to obiect against him but that which Chirste and his Apostles taught and practised and euerye good man shoulde wishe to be in him selfe For which cause Henricus Pantaleon an heretike as M. Fox is but yeat of a more calmer spirite speaking of him in hys Chronographie vseth these wordes S. Franciscus Asisius Pag. 95. Hispanus sanctitate eruditione illustris in Italia claret S. Frauncis a spaniarde of the towne of Asisium famouse for his holynesse and learning florisheth in Italie Wel yow see good readers what Nowelles oure vnhappye age that can abide nothing that well is hathe brought furthe Yow see what foxes Sathan the maister of the game hathe vnkenelled in oure countrie of England to destroye oure Lordes vineyarde Yow are not ignorāt what flesheflies and canon crowes haue builded their neastes euen in the churche off God Oure Lorde graunte vs as we see them and knowe them so to flee them and auoide them But now to returne to M. Nowell some man maie happely aske me what answere I make to the scripture noted here in the margēt forbidding expressely that we call not men oure fathers on Fol. 54. b. 31. Matth. 23. earthe which these ordres of religiouse men doe To this I answere with Euthimius Theophilact and S. Hierom vpō this place that we are not by these wordes forbidden to Euthimius Theophilactus Hieron in ca. Matth. 23. call them that begot vs either to the worlde by the fleshe or to God by the spirite fathers The wordes of Euthimius are these Hoc dixit non prohibens vocari patres eos qui iuxta carnem genuerunt c. This Christ spake not forbidding them to be called fathers who haue begotten other either carnally or spiritually but that we might knowe who is chiefely and as the verie first cause to be called oure father For that father of oures is god only that is in heauen they that begette vs after the fleshe or after the spirite be worckers together with God and ministres rather of oure natiuitie He saieth therfore call none youre father in earthe as youre chiefe father and first cause of youre being for that father is but one which is in heauen With Euthimius agreeth Theophilact saing of this place Nō vt neminē patrem vocent sed ne ignorent quem principaliter patrem vocare oporteat Not that we shoulde call no man father but that we shoulde not be ignorant whome we ought specially to call fathers S. Hierome moueth this verie obiection vpon this place Howe then the monckes of Aegipt and Palestina were called fathers how S. Paule contrary to this precepte 2. Cor. 5. forbidding aswell the name of maister as of father called him selfe the maister of the gentiles To the whiche he answereth agreing with Euthimius and Theophilact that there is one principall maister one speciall father that all other be fathers and maisters but not properly Thus called S. Paul the Corinth His children and him selfe 1. Cor. 4. their father Thus called the monckes in S. Austens time their heades fathers Thus call those of S. Benedicte Lib. de morib eccl cathol cap. 31. his ordre S. Benedict their father because Christ wrought by him as an instrumēt this spirituall birthe in them Thus doe the Cistertians Carmelites Chartusians Franciscans with the rest Emongest whome I can not but note how warely and wisely yow passed ouer the Augustines left yow shoulde either haue bene driuen to make S. Austen the auctor of a popishe and schismaticall