to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
his kingly authoritie but he traueled full godly in suppressing Idolatrie by his kingly authoritie as though his kingly authoritie stretched no furder than to trauell in the execution of seruing the priestly authoritie But the Scripture is most euident that his kingly authoritie and godly trauell was not in executing the Priestes commaundement but the priestly authoritie traueled in the seruice and executing of the Princes commandement For as he destroyed all their Idols and places of Idolatry and abolished or depriued as Uatablus expoundeth it the false priestes of their priestly dignitie so he commaunded by this his kingly authoritie all the true priestes both the high priest Helchias and vnder him the inferiour priestes and porters to trauell likewise in bringing out to him all the Idolatrous vessels and he summoned or gathered togither all the Priestes And all that there is done is named to be done by him that is to say eyther by him selfe or by his appoyntment and commaundement through his kingly authoritie both in abolishing the false worship and in establishing and directing the true worship of God not onely in generall but also in perticuler yea in the chiefest spirituall matters ouer all the Clergie and the high Priest so well as all his other subiectes and all this was done of him by his kingly authoritie But what then saith M. Stapleton to all this as it were with a phillip to ouerturne al the matter with his Masters what then Forsooth M. St. then it was not his godly trauell in a seruiceable execution of the priestes commaundements but his godly trauell in commaunding them their godly trauel in a seruiceable execution of the kinges commaundements And then it was not onely in suppressing Idolatrie as you limite it but in refourming establishing directing appointing the whole true worship of God besides And then was this his kingly authoritie by the which he did all these things though many of them were Moses Dauids yea the Prophetes former ordinances and Gods commaundement long before yet were they done here by the kinges owne authoritie which in the last example of Ezechias concerning Dauid ye would not admitte bicause it was Gods appoyntment by the hande of his Prophetes Such as were many of these things like wise and yet now ye graunt they were done also euen by Iosias his kingly authoritie And then I pray you what so great a difference finde ye betwéene these twaine the King doth it by his kingly authoritie that here ye confesse and the King doth it by his owne authoritie that there ye denied is not the kinges kingly authoritie the Kinges owne authoritie and yet is all his authoritie from god It followeth then to your what then by your owne confession and the manifest Scripture that this his owne kingly authoritie of Iosias was next vnder God the chiefe and supreme ouer all the Priestes Leuites Singers Porters or any other so well as the people in all abolishing of false religion and in all commaunding and directing the true worship and religion of God which are the principall causes ecclesiasticall And what then say you to this M. Stapleton doth it not cléerely proue the Bishops assertion against M. FeckenhaÌ„ for al your counterblasting it with your bigge what then Thinke ye it proues he did no more then than you will suffer Princes to do now abusing them with the title of good catholike Princes and bereauing them of their good catholike and princely authoritie that by the examples of these good catholike princes they ought to take vpon them and your Pope vsurpes it from them And yet you say to abase the doings of Iosias so do good catholike Princes also to plucke downe the Idolles that ye and your brethren haue of late set vp and yet none of them tooke them selues for supreme heades in all causes spirituall The question is not nowe Master Stapleton what those your good catholike Princes as ye call them take them selues to be whome you haue spoyled and make beléeue what it pleaseth you to tell them that their kingly authoritie reacheth no furder but to be seruiceable trauelers and executioners of your commaundements But the question is here what these Princes mencioned in the holy Scriptures tooke them selues to be which appereth by their appointinges and coÌ„maundinges of their Clergie in their functions that they tooke them selues for their Clergies supreme gouernours in these matters And so ought al good catholike princes by their examples to estéeme of them selues and of their high calling and charge in ecclesiasticall causes and trauayle by their godly supreme gouernment to discharge the same Where ye say therefore so do good catholike princes meaning those that submitte themselues with all the gouernment of religion and all ecclesiasticall matters to your Pope and his prelates not medling them selues therewith as did Iosias and these other godly Kinges whome we sée to haue medled with the gouernment and direction thereof it is apparant false and their doinges herein are no more alike than blacke is like to white than to commaunde directe and appoint others is like to be of the same parties in the same matters commaunded directed and appointed themselues than gouerning is like seruing than one contrarie is like to another And yet you say for ye care not what ye saie as did king Iosias so do your good catholike princes now But what is that they do plucke down the Idols say you that you and your brethern haue set vp Whether we our bretheren or you and your bretheren haue set vp Idols let it fal out betwene vs as it shall hereafter we shall come to the reckening onely stande you to this M. Stapleton that the plucking downe of Idols belongeth to Princes by their kingly authoritie and that so they ought to account of them selues their authoritie which if they had done and diligently executed this their kingly authoritie your shifte of Images and Idols had not auayled you for euen to your moste famous Images shrines and pilgrimages hath foule idolatrie bene committed as the chiefe of your brethren them selues are fayne to confesse and crye out vpon and yet durst your princes neuer pull them downe nor you would euer haue suffred thâ—… so to do for your lucre lay muche therein but caused the Princes to mainteine and enriche suche Images as you dayly did set vp As for the Idols that we should haue set vp who séeth not we haue so little set vp any that we reiecte for Idols those which ye call your Images and professe that neither they nor any other thing besides God nor God in them or by them is to be worshipped but God alone and that in spirite and truthe and so receiue his playne simple worde and sacraments But if as ye sayde before those Princes pull downe our heresies and those are the Idols that we set vp except this presupposall should be graunted you that those be heresies which we mainteine
vvere in times past the Leuitical priests yea rather sith the Apostle treating of the Ministers of the nevve Testament conferring them with the olde Leuites sayth that they ministred death and the letter that killed but these minister the spirit which quickneth and righteousnesse and therfore the ministers of the nevve Testament are more vvorthie than the olde Leuites vvhat maner of king shal vve thinke him to bee vvhiche contemning the ministers of the nevve Testamente calleth himselfe the supreme head of his Christian kingdome and that immediatly vnder Christ This comparison Maister Saunders of the ministers of the olde and nevve Testament rightly vnderstood wée acknowledge The nevve is more vvorthy than the olde but the vvorthinesse and glory of the nevv ministration that saint Paule speakes on is spirituall and not outvvard glory For although the ministers of the olde Testament had outwarde glory and some of them by especiall calling had the visible supreme and ciuill gouernement although seldome yet the ministers of the nue testament are by Christ as your owne selfe haue confessed flatly forbidden it Vos autem non sic but you shall not be so And therefore where ye woulde haue them of no lesse dignitie meaning of outvvard glory and gouernment or else your example holdes not they are of farre lesse dignitie therein notwithstanding in a spirituall and invvarde glory they are againe of a farre greater dignitie than the olde Which spirituall dignitie if any King shoulde contemne you might then well demaunde vvhat maner of king he were and we woulde answere you hée were a wicked King but as these are two distinct dignities the spirituall dignitie of the minister and the visible supremacie of the King so may they be and are with vs well and godly vsed both of them Where both the Prince hath the outward dignitie of supreme head or gouernour vnder Christ and yet the ministers spirituall dignitie is not onely no whit contemned but hath his honor yelded due vnto him And therefore we denie not that which followeth For if he acknowledge not the Ministers of Christe ouer him he can not be blessed of them VVherevpon neither can he be pertaker of the sanctifying spirite whose ministers they are We graunt Maister Saunders that the Prince humbly receiueth their blessing and is partaker of the holy spirite of God whose ministers they are in these actions Wherein the Prince acknowledgeth them to represent God and is vnder them But what hindreth this that in other respectes they againe are vnder him and he their supreme gouernour but Maister Saunders procéedeth saying Dauid cryeth and nowe ye kings vnderstande and be ye learned ye that iudge the earth apprehend discipline least the Lorde waxe wroth and ye perishe oute of the right waye But if kings must be learned then so farre forth they must be vnder For he that is learned is learned of some maister and is scholler to him of whome he is learned the disciple is not aboue his maister but in that thing that he learneth of his maister of necessitie he is inferior That kings ought to be learned we gladly confesse and are glad that you confesse it althoughe againste your wylls for ye would rather haue them altogither vnlearned whom ye haue so long detained in blindnesse But why woulde ye haue them nowe learned forsothe bicause you would onely be their maisters and so they shoulde be still your vnderlings not onely in learning suche ill lessons as you woulde teache them but vnder pretence of teachers to be their gouernours too True it is in that the teacher teacheth he is aboue and in that the learner learneth he is vnder â—…ut the teacher is not aboue nor the learner vnder in other things Thoughe Moyses learned of Iethro yet in gouernement Moyses was aboue him Thoughe Dauid learned of Nathan yet in gouernement he was aboue him Thoughe Ozias learned of Iudith yet in gouernement he was aboue hir And so all princes that are taughte of their schole maisters their scholemaister maye be the better in learning but he is the worser in authoritie And thoughe he be the maister in knowledge yet he makes euen his knowledge wherby he is maister to serue the Prince also Yea although the Prince be not his maister in learning yet in all causes of learning the Prince hath a generall supreme gouernement to sée by his lawes euery kinde of learning maintayned in his order to forbid naughtie artes to be learned to appoint such suche an order methode to be taught or learned as learned men enforme him is good and easie to the attaining of learning to appaynt scholes and learned scholemaisters for learning and to giue them lawes statutes and stipendes for the maintenance of learning all this may the Prince doe by his supreme authoritie ouer all learned persons and in all causes of learning althoughe he himselfe be altogether vnlearned and can not one letter on the booke Althoughe woulde to God all Princes were learned not as the Papistes woulde haue them but as Dauid was and exhorteth all Princes to bée And thus as thys sentence makes nothing in the worlde for him so hys example thereon makes verye muche againste him But for all thys argumente be thus simple he wyll loâ—…de vs with further proues saying Sithe therefore it is sayde to the Apostles Go teache ye all nations and sith vnder the names of nations the kings of them are comprehended and Byshops and Priests haue succeeded the Apostles in the office of teaching truely in the offyce of teachyng the Byshoppe is greater than his king so farre is it off that the king can be the Bishops hed in all things causes VVhich title notwithstanding is not onely of these men giuen to a king but also by publique decree of late in Englande giuâ—…n vnto a Queene To reason froÌ„ teaching to gouerning is no good teaching M. SauÌ„ders If ye teach this doctrine theÌ„ your Pope should haue little gouernment for God wot he teacheth little being often times vnlearned and alwayes to proud to teache If ye say he teacheth by others so caÌ„ a prince too And though he could himselfe teache and would also teach the truth and not suppresse it yet sith ye say he succedes the Apostles but in the office of teaching he is no furder superior than he teacheth by your owne reckoning Neither would this superioritie be denyed him of any that he ought to teache if he in dâ—…de succeded the Apostles But if the succession of the Apostles consist in teaching as here ye confesse then hath not the Pope to crake muche of succeeding Peter and Paule that teacheth not as Peter and Paule did as woulde to God he did and all priests or Bishops else Whiche if they did and taught truely this woulde augment and not diminishe the Princes supreme authoritie yea and the Quéenes too Maister Saunders for in gouernement before ye
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the
nor there in his humaine nature as Christe himselfe hath testified Which as it dasheth this your case yée put so it confuteth an other chiefe errour of yours that affirme yée haue the humaine nature of Christe closed vp in a boxe and that yée eate him vp or kéepe him vp till he waxe mouldie and then you burne him vp Is this the best honor you can affoorde to Christe being conuersant heere in earth in his humaine nature If it be true that you say he is present how chance yée serue him thus is it bycause he appeareth not in his likenesse but looketh rather like a wafer if it were Christe indéede howsoeuer he loked can you finde in your hearts thus to order him But you will saye that is an other matter answere to this presupposal We speake nowe of Christ appearing in his owne likenesse How say you if he were conuersant in earth as he was shoulde hee not ouer Christian Kings haue superioritie in temporall causes so vvell as in ecclesiasticall that might promote his Churche I answere if this were admitted to be true that Christ againe were conuersant on the earth Christian Kings ought no doubt to giue him all superioritie and be vnder him in all ecclesiasticall and temporall causes that might promote his Churche acknowledging all the power they haue to procéede from him But that Christ if he were againe on the earth woulde raigne ouer Kings and in his humaine nature rule Kings in their secular causes or that he woulde thinke this a way to promote the Church or that he would depose Princes and make their subiectes reuolt from their obedience or that he woulde cease their kingdomes into his handes and make Kings to kisse his féete to leade his Horsse to holde his sturrops or that he would weare thrée Crownes and Princely roabes of gold frette with perle and stone or that he would kepe suche a princely porte and pompe as passed all other Princes which things your Pope pretending to be his Uicar in the absence of his humaine nature doth this would be harde for you to proue M. Saunders although your case were graunted that Christ personally in his humaine nature vvere conuersant in earth againe For if he would haue had any of these thinges he might haue had them when he was here on earth as your selfe confessed in the Chapter going before saying This in this kinde I vvill speake as the chiefest argument that Christe vvhile he vvas here in earth and fulfilled all the lavve and all righteousnesse notwithstanding he would gouern eccl. matters only as a Priest and by no means as an earthly king For he openly refused to administer an earthly kingdome therfore fled when he saw the people go about to do this thing that they might make him a king he denied that he was appointed a deuider betwene the brethreÌ„ Are not these your own wordes M. Sand I knowe you wrest them to an other purpose whiche there is answered vnto But howe serue they not here against your selfe â–ª trow you Christe is now become of an other mynde than he was when he was here on earth if he be still of the same mind then would he not take vpon him if he were here againe on earth the estate of an earthly King nor gouerne in secular causes But trowe you your Pope pretending to be his Uicar would suffer this seese the temporalties he possesseth the kingdomes he hath gotten the honor that is giuen him or any thing else that in eccl. secular causes vnder pretence of the Churches promotion he vsurpeth ouer all kings Christian no he would rather handle Christ worsse if he could lay hands vpon him then euer did the Iewes he wold not onely crucifie Christe againe but burne him cleane to ashes for an hereâ—…ike rather then he would lose this honor or any iote thereof But and if Christe were here againe conuersant on earth in his humaine nature woulde he suffer the Popes intollerable pride and errours would he allowe him to abuse his name as thoughe he were his deputie and Uicar generall I trow not Not that I thinke he séeth it not or suffers it not or hath not by his prouident iustice ordeined that Sathan should set vp such an Antichrist to delude strongly the Children of vnbeleefe and to exercise vnder the Crosse of Christ his litle elected flocke But that if Christe should so come as he here supposeth surely I woulde thinke the cause of his coÌ„ming to be euen to destroy spiritu oris eius with the breath of his mouth this man of sin not to mainteine him in his pompe muche lesse himselfe to take the like vpon him Not that Christe is not a king ouer the house of Iacob not that his kingdome is not eternal as the Angel said to Marie not that he should not subdue al earthly kingdoms to his spiritual kingdome but that his kingdome is spiritual not earthly the subduing of earthly kingdomes is with a sword that conquereth the soule of man that is the word of God with a force from aboue subduing the will of man that is the spirite grace of God and not such a subduing of their kingdomes that it dissolueth their polycies estates or deposeth their kings maketh the people take Armes and exerciseth â–ª in secular causes an earthly Kings authoritie M. Saunders pretendeth this is to promote the Churche of Christ but suche promotion confoundes deuotion and hath poysoned the Church of God as they say a voyce was heard what time Constantine although falsly is supposed to haue endowed the Church with such royall honor Hodie venenum intrauit in ecclesâ—…n This day entered poyson into the Church But Christ hath flatly forbidden it and tolde his Disciples when they asked such promotion that they knewe not what they asked But afterwarde they knewe and founde the saying of Christ to be true that their promotion lay in their affliction and not in their kingly honor And thus we sée the falsehood of the maior forged vpon this fained presupposall whiche is not to be graunted and yet if it were graunted it would fall out to the vtter ruine of the Pope all his Prelates Such ill lucke hath M. Sand stil to light on such examples as he coÌ„ceineth to make for him but being a litle better examined make most of al against him Now to the minor that Christ hath giuen to his Ministers in the visible ministerie all the povver necessarie to saluation that he should haue himselfe in his humaine nature Where find you this M. Sand I thinke it will be ouer hard a matter for you to proue that all the povver necessarie to saluatioÌ„ that he shoulde haue himselfe in his humaine nature in the visible ministerie he hath giueÌ„ it al to his ministers Al power saith Christe is giuen to me in heauen and in earth this is spoken in respecte
a. Stap. 48. The papistes shiftes from Priestes to Peophets and from Prophets to Priests for the Popes primacie How highely Popâ—…sh priests esteeme of theÌ„ solues Deut. 13. 3. Reg. 22. 3. Reg. 18. Math. 7. 1. Pap. 25. 1. Par. 23. 1. Par. 24. 1. Par. 25. 1. Par. 26. Both the chiefe prophets and cheife priestes vnder the appoyntment of the king 2. Par. 29. Stap. 48. a. Carolus Magnus an vnlike match to Dauid Stap. 48 â–ª The lawe of King â—…uo Priuileges of Princes to the clergie well or yll vsed The Pope and his prelates like the Iuy Stap. 48. b. Stap. 49. a. The Queenes Ma estie by the Papists shamefully 〈◊〉 Win. Pag. 9. a. Cap. 12. Stap. 48. b. The example of the supreme gouernment of K. Salomon Salomons dedeposing the high priest Stap. 48. b Salomons example deposing Abâ—…athar applied by the papists to Queene Mâ—…rie deposing the archbishop Cran. Fol. 44. b 45 b. 47. a. 48. b The difference betwene Q. Maries and king SalomoÌ„s doings Stap. 49. â—… Stap. 49. â—… Stap. 49. a. Master Stap. question and dilemma Stap. 49. a. The difference of the phrase for the princes sacrificing and the princes de posing Abiathat The question and the dilemma returned on the papists Sup. fol. 217. a Stap. 4 9. â—… The highest priest a traytor A traytor The Bishop of Rome a traytor to the â—…mperor of Rome Stap. 4 9. a. 3. Reg. 2. Stap. 4 9 a. The ministerie and executing of Gods sentence debarreth not the princes supremacie Stap. 49. â—… The issue 〈◊〉 question Master Stap. graunteth the Pâ—…ince to be chiefe ruler in some ecclesiasticall causes What the authoâ—…tie of depâ—…sing the Pope implieth A difference betweene the chiefe â–ª ruler of ecclesiasticall causes and the chiefe doer of them The example of king Iosaphats supreme gouernment Cap 13. Sta. 50. a. Sta. 50. a. Wherein christian Princes must go beyondâ—… kâ—…ng 〈◊〉 hat 2. Par. 20. Sâ—…a 50 a. Iosaphat direc ted ecclâ—…siastical matters not by the commandement but by the aduise of the prests Sta. 50. a. Sta 50. a. Sta. 50. a. Sta. 50. a. Psalm 2. Sta. 50 a. In cle si Rom. N 22. de prebendis Supra 205. a. Stap. 50. a. b. Sta. 50. b. Stap. 50. b. How contemp tuously the papistes esteeme of the examples of the scriptures 2. Par. 17. Preachers sent of the prince Lyra in 2. patal 17. The princes progresse about religion Lyra in 2. paral 19. Vatablus Lyra. Iustices of the peace Lyra. Stap. 50. b. Sâ—…apl 51. â—… The princes forme and order in proceeding Stapl. 51. â—… Stap. 51. â—… Religion only proceedeth froÌ„ God the preaching proceedeth from the ministers the direction and ordering from the Prince Stapl. 50. b. The Papistes denie not only the Princes go uernment of ecclesiasticall matters but also of ecclesiastical persons Supra pa 47. â—… Stapl. 5â—…â—… King Iosaphat did not deale sclenderly in ecclesiasticall matters but as his chiefest charge 2. Paral. 19. Lyra in 2. Paral 19. Nothing ecclesiasticall or temporal exeÌ„pted from the chief ouersight of the Prince no not of the cases Deut. 17. that the Papists chiefly boast vppon Stap. 51. â—… The iniuÌ„ctioÌ„â—… of princes for the obseruatioÌ„ of ecclesiastical matters and threates of displeasure for the breache of them Lyra in 2. Paâ—…al 19. The king iudged ecclesiasticall causes in that his debiâ—â—e iudged them 2. Paral. 19. Stap 51. b. Diuine matters not excluded from the kings office The priest the princes commissioner 2. Paral. 17. Stap. 51. a. Lyra in 2. Paral. 19. Vatablus Sta. 50. a. The prince commandeth the Priest. Fol. 52. a. The example of king â—…zechias supreme gouernment in ecclesiastical causes 4. Reg. 18. 2. Pat. 29. Stapletoa Caput 14. Fol. 52. b. Lyra. Ecclesiasticall matters by K. Izechias newly established To be readie and seruiceable to fulfill Gods determination debarreth not the Princes supreme gouernment Ezechias executed Gods commaundement and the clergie the coÌ„maundement of Ezechias Lyra in 2. Par. 29. 2. Par. 29. Lyra in 2. Par. 29. Lyra. Iniunxiâ—… 〈◊〉 Praecepit renouationem diuini cultus Imagines Idololatriae multas The popishe fond destinction of â—…mage and Idoll 4. Reg. 18. The Princes predecessors disposing debarreth not his supreme gouernment The subiection to Gods commaundement embarreth not the Princes supreme gouernment The doing it by the handes of the prophets or any other embarreth not the Princes supreme gouernment Stap 53. â—… The asking counsell of others debarieth not the Princes supreme authoritie in the doing 2. paâ—…al 30. Lyra in 2. Par 30. Sâ—…ap 53. â—… Ezechias did many things neuer so done before â—… Paâ—… 30. Lyra in 2. Paral. 30. Lyra in â—… Paral. 3â—… 2. paral 31. The commendation and application of K. Ezechias Stap 59. a. A proper shifting answere muche vsed by M. St in these examples Supra 50. b. Stap. 53. a. Daniel 7. Apoc. 12. Gal. 1. The name of ministers 1. Cor. 4. 3. Reg. 18. Daniel 14. Stapl. 53. a. The popish priestes now not like the true prophetes The Papistes shifte from Priests to Prophetes Fol 53. a. The example of King Iosias his supreme gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiasticall causes Sta. Caput 15. Stapl. 53. a. b. 4. Reg. 23. 2. Par. 34. 35. Lyrâ—… Iosias trauaile by his kingly authoritie Stap. 53. a. b. The trauailes of good catholike princes Whether we or the Papists let vp Idols Sta. 50 a. How the popish prelaâ—…s vsed christian Princes Howe the Q. Highnes follo with the ensample of Iosias 4. Reg. 23. Monkes and Nunnes celles pulled downe Sta. 53 b. Stap. 53. b. Master Stap. stragleth from the marke and calleth on the Bishop to kepe him to the marke The issue in question betvvene the Bishop and master Fecknam Sup. â—…ol 136. a M. Stap. settes vp ix â–ª nevve markes both differing from M. Feck and the Bâ—…shops issue and also from his ovvne former marks and yet cryes oâ—…t on the B. for straying from the question The Papistes play like the Lapvving The issue Stapl. 53. b. M. Stapletons first falâ—… marke The kings agnising the high Priest in the old testament inferreth not that they agnised him their â—…npreme gouernour St. fol. 53. b. St. fol. 53. b. M. St. second false marke The conferring of the Q Maiesties doing with these auncient and godly kings The Papistes vaunt of 1000 yeares antiquitie The Papistes dare not stretch their crake of antiquitie to Christe or to 1500. yeareâ—… and vpvvarde Galat. 1. Stap. 54. a. M. Stap. thirde false marke In the proofe of the supreme gouernment the proofe of euery particuler fact is not necessarie The issue betweene the B. and M. Feck The taking an othe The othe to the Pope The high priest in the olde law did not as the pope doth novv The kingâ—… in the olde lawe charged their clergy on their priesthood for eccl. matters Sta. 54 â—… Stap. 54. â—… M. St. fourth false marke The Prince abandoneth not godly bishops though he abaÌ„ don the Pope The abandoning of the
¶ The Supremacie of Christian Princes ouer all persons throughout their dominions in all causes so wel Ecclesiastical as temporall both against the Counterblast of Thomas Stapleton replying on the Reuerend father in Christe Robert Bishop of VVinchester and also Against Nicolas Sanders his Uisible Monarchie of the Romaine Church touching this controuersie of the Princes Supremacie Ansvvered by Iohn Bridges The Princes charge in his institution to ouersee the direction of Gods lawe DEVTER 17. After he shall be settled in the throne of his kingdom he shal write out for himself in a volume the copie of this Law taking the same of the Priests of the Leuitical tribe and he shal haue it with him reade it al the days of his life that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and keepe the wordes and ceremonies of him which are written in this law c. ¶ PRINTED AT LONDON by Henrie Bynneman for Humfrey Toye 1573. · HONI · SOIT · QVI · MAL · Y · PENSE · E. R ¶ To the moste high and moste excellent Princesse Elizabeth by the grace of God Queene of Englande France and Ireland defender of the Faith of Christ and in earth next vnder God of the Church of England and Ireland in all Ecclesiastical and temporall causes the supreme Head Gouernor ALbeit most Gracious Soueraigne I might be vvoorthily noted of presumption in dedicating these my trauailes to your Maiestie as vvel for the basenesse of my skill calling as for the vnreuerent demeanour of the aduersaries that here I ansvvere vnvvorthie vvhom your Highnesse should deigne to loke vpon yet bothe bicause the matter entreateth moste of a Princes estate and that vpon the chiefest point therof belonging in general to al Christian Princes but in especiall to your Maiestie against vvhom they chiefly direct their malice and in maintenaunce vvhereof your Maiestie direct your gouernement and herein haue giuen a mirror to al christian Princes to folovv and be partakers in their common vveales of the lyke blessings wherwith God hath beautified your Highnesse and established youre authoritie I thought it therfore not vnfit setting my self and them aside with all such by matters as incidently fal out in disputation betvvixt the Bishop and master Feckenham of me these my aduersaries â–ª to conâ—…ecrate this argumente of Supremacie to youre moste excellent Maiestie as to vvhom chiefly in your dominions next vnder Christ it dothe pertaine VVhich your Highnesse so nobly maintaines by practise of godlie gouernment hovve euer we by the vvord and argument do defend it There is no controuersie at this day betvvixt vs and the enimies of the gospel more impughed thaÌ„ this one of the Supremacie nor more bookes compiled more libels scattered more vaunts made of truth on their partie more sclaunders deuised of oure doctrine and your Maiesties Title more secrete conspiracies and open treasons against your Royal person and state of the Realme than our aduersaries make only for this Supremacie Shall Sathan then vse al this double diligence in promoting the pride tyrannie of his Antichrist the man of sinne the foreigne vsurper of all Christian kingdoms and shall the children of god be negligent in defence of the kingdom of Christ of the Lordes anoynted of the dutifull office and lavvfull authoritie of their naturall Soueraigne â–ª Other meanes I graunt may be had to suppresse their furious dealing And God bee blessed therefore that hath furnished your Maiestie vvith povver couÌ„sell authoritie lavv vvisedome learning vertue courage and al other Princely habilities â–ª suffiâ—…iet to maintein your Highnesse Title protect that portion of Christes Church vvhich he hath committed to your most Gracious gouernment in peace and truth prosperously 〈◊〉 your enemies VVherein as your Maiestie hath euer most zâ—…lously sought and set forth the glorie of god â—…e hath so glorified you again as he hath promised 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 glorificabo that your highnesse may say as king Dauid sayd â–ª he hath deliuered you out of your enimies hands and defeated all their purposes he hath established you a kingdom here on earth in peace and righteousnesse and hath prepared in heauen a Kingdom for you in glorie and eternitie Novv although this be so cleeâ—…e that euen the enimies themselues coÌ„fesse God vvorks vvith you God fights for you God hath takeÌ„ your hart into his handes that haue taken his quarel into yours yet sith the 〈◊〉 do mutteâ—… sclander your Highnesse to take suche kind of GouernmeÌ„t on you as vvere not coÌ„petent as the Pope had vvont to do your Highnes is furthest from if this your claime be not proued to be grouÌ„dedon Gods vvord if those enuious be not coÌ„â—…inced by euident argumeÌ„ts of the seripture al the foresaid prosperitie is couÌ„ted but earthly blessings and such as other vvorldly Princes haue All the due authoritie is 〈◊〉 but extorted violence neither is the mouth of the adoersarie stopped neyther is the mind of the subiect satisfied And therfore vvhen al is don â–ª there is no better meanâ—… to may 〈◊〉 this Title than euen by learning 〈◊〉 for to me it to the vttermost and to fight vvitâ—… the vveapon of Gods vvord for it vvhicheâ—…s sharpeâ—… to vvoâ—…nde the aduersaries heart and conscience than any tvvo edged svvord But some vvil say this is sufficiently done by otherâ—… learned labours vvhen both in the dayes of your Maiesties Father of most renoumed memorie euen the best learned of our aduersaries did not only confesse it but vvrote so effectually in defence therof that shamefully aftervvard reuolting their guiltie conscieÌ„cebore vvitnesse against themselues nor they coulde euer ansvvere their ovvne vvritings And also after that in the godlie gouernment of youre Highnesse blessed Brother many other more excellent fathers in vvriting did confirme it And novv lastly in this your Maiesties happie Reigne diuers famous and lerned men to the further confirming of the godlie and confounding the enimie therein haue vvritten vppon this argument Yet sith oure aduersaries haue neuer doone thervvith but sette on a freshe lyke to him that vvhen in vvrastling he was euer cast of pride and vainglorie vvoulde neuer acknovvledge that he had any fall I thought good to make euident to all your Maiesties subiects euen to the enimies themselues the places vvhere they shamefully fel and lie stil in their errour rather than to vvrastle vvith such vvarblers And yet if they start vp again to trie a further pluck vvith them and by the strength of Gods inuincible truth so to ouerthrovv them that as fast as they boast cauill and sclaunder the truth of our cause and the goodnesse of your Maiesties quarell shall shevve it selfe the cleerer although the simplier handled A number of other vvhom I knovve coulde haue done it farre better vvho may also at their discretions further trauaile in it And in deede vvhere the most of this vvas done a good vvhile sith it vvas layde aside thus long expecting if any other vvould attempte it
the disputation at VVest Anno regnâ—… Elizabeth 1. Which being so fresh in memorie all men can witnessâ—… agaynst him 12. a. b. He likeneth it to the Anabaptists disputations ibid. The fourth Chapter of 13. leaues togither besides that it is almost all impertinent talke is full of shamefull slaunders of many noble vertuâ—… and learned men the Duke of Saxonie the Laâ—…graue of Hesse the Loâ—…le Cobham sir Roger ActoÌ„ Luther Zuinglius Caluin Beza c. to deface them and the professors of Gods worde with tales of â—…umultes cruelties disobedience and rebellions 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. That the ciuil gouernmeÌ„t of Christian Princes stretcheth no further than the ciuil gouernment of heathen princes 29. b. That the O. Maiesties title is not competeÌ„t for hir highnesse and that the auouching of the othe is the eâ—…payring of hir worldly estate 27. a. That the othe bemyreth them which receyue it 30. That it is an vnlawfull oth like to wicked K. Herods 30. That the plague raigned at London to plague the straunge proceedings of the Parliament 33. b. That the Bishop of Winchester bicause he required the othe of dâ—…ctour Bonner therefore sought his bloud ibid. That our Bishops are no Church Bishops ibid. That the Quéenes Maiestie taketh on hir a pretensed regiment 42. That mariage in ministers is filthie 42. â—… That of late yeares lay men durst aduenture to take the guidiâ—…g of the arke and go before the Priestes and not suffer the priestes to go before them And durst alter the state of Christian religion agaynst the will and minde of the Bishops and the whole clergie 46. a. That we attribute to the Quéenes maiestie to alter religion 47. b. That lay men haue not onely put to their handes to sustaine the Arke as Oza did but haue also of their owne priuate authoritie altred chanÌ„ged the great and waightie points of Christes Catholike Religion and in a maner haue quite transformed ouerthrowne the same so haue as a man might say broken the verie Arke itselfe all to fitters 47. b. That wesay that Princes doe heaâ—… the suprâ—… gouernment in all ecclesiasticall matterâ—… to decide and determine â–ª what religion meere soueraigntie 48. b. That the Prince enacteth a new religion 50. a. That the decision of matters of religion aâ—… made Parliament matters ibid. That wâ—… labour to confounde the spirituall and secular power ibid. That the Quéenes Maiestle enacteth a newe religion by force of supreme authoritie contrarie to the commaundement of God. 53. a. That hir highnesse hath altered and abandoned the vsuall religion a thousande yeares and vpwarde customably from age to age receyued and embraced 53. b. That she hath abandoned generall Councels 54. a. That Princes nowe make Bishops by letters patents for such and so long time as please them for terme of yeares monethes or dayes ibid. b. That shee inhibiteth them to visitte their flockes and to preach ibid. For 4. or 5. leaues togither he doth nothing else but slauÌ„der the Protestants with â—…mbers of Heresies that he â—…aisly layeth to their charge But this is answered at large and those herestes with many other returned on the Papists That a thousande in Englande haue taken the othe to theyr great damnation 73. 2. That the Prince and his successors are made absolute gouernours without any limitation or exception 73 â–ª That the Bishop buildeth a newe supremacie on the wicked working of wretched Heretikes 77. b. That the Bishop is of the opinion that the Grecians were of denying the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the sonne Wherwith he â—…laundereth the Bishop only bicause hée cyteth â–ª Emanuell Paleologus the Emperour of Gréece out of Nicephorus by the name of a Christian Emperour â–ª where Nicephorus himselfe the Papists that set Nicephorus out cal this Emperour Christianissâ—… The most Christian Emperour ibid. He compareth the reaimes of Boheme Fraunce Scotland Germanie to lerusalem destroyed by the heathen Romaines and to Constantinople captiue to the Turkes 82. b. That the Quéene taketh vpon hir all maner of gouernment and authoritie in all things and causes ecclesiasticall 82. b. That the Quéene taketh vpon hir by hir owne supreme authoritie to enact matters of religion to approue and disproue articles of the faith to determine doctrine to excommunicate and absolue ibid. That the statute and the othe implyeth and concludeth all these particulars 83. a. That by the statute is flatlye excluded all the authoritie of the whole body of the catholike Church without the realme ibid. That the statute implyeth that if a Turke or any hereticke whatsoeuer shoulde come to the Crowne of England all maner superioritie in visiting and correcting Ecclesiasticall persons in all maner matters should be vnited vnto him ibid. That the Quéene taketh on hiâ—… to be a supreme gouernour ecclesiasticall ibid. That hir supreme gouernment giueth hir power in all doubts and controuersies to decide the truth and to make an ende of questioning ibid. That by vertue of this statute the Queenes Maiestie hath iudged determined and enacted a newe religion That she taketh on hir the preaching of the worde the administration of the sacraments binding and losing ibid. That the statute is thus generally conceyued 83. b. That the statute is generally conceyued and not generally meaned ibid. To all these slaunders we may aunswere in a 〈◊〉 with his owne wordes These besuch slaunderous reproches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the person son whome ye burthen them withall so farre from all suspition of any such foule matter c. that if you were sued hereof vpon an action of the case as you well deserue no lesse or rather in déede you deserue farre sharper punishment for reporting thus of your most gracious soueraigne and all the estates of the Reaime whome thus vnsubiectâ—…ke ye slaunder His owne obiection for scoffes I pray you call to remembraunce what a scoffing and wondring he maketh 407. His. 3. common place of scoffing and scorning In the Prefaces YOu woorke your matters so handsomly and so perswasiuely pag. 6. VVhat a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you 7. A marueylous kinde of new and false arithmetike 8. Is not this I pray you an important and mighty argument 11. Your owne deare brother Bale the chiefe antiquarie of Englishe Protestants 13. Your hote spurred ministers 14. No newes for a man of your coate 14. VVhose bolde as blynde Bayarde 14. Ye tell your reader in great sadnesse 16. Ye bluster excedingly and are in a vehement rage 16. VVith the like felicitie your brother Iewell c. layde full stoutly and confidently c. with great brauery 81. It pittieth me in your behalfe 19. Maister Iewel hath led vs this daunce 19. Your faire peece of worke 23. Your poore honouâ—… should say honestie 23. The chiefe maisters of the religion 28. Parliament Bishoppes 32. In the aunswere to the Bishops Preface THe holy Brotherhoode of Geneua â—… b. This noble blast so
meanes was deliuered as also M. Crispine shuld haue ben but that death preuented him only M. Moreman stubbornly persisting in his errours remained still in the Tower. In this conference M. Feckenham promised to preache as the Bishop truly charged him Of which conference and promise there be yet many on lyue both worshipfull and honeste men to witnesse the same and proue you a lyer M. Stapleton so impudently to denie it You had nothing to say to the contrarie The. 32. vntruth more slaunderous as may wel appeare by this your booke It appéereth thereby right well in déede and shall further appéere that you also had not any greate thyng else to to saye to the contrarie neyther excepting these and suche lyke your brabbling common places For answere I say they ought to take vppon them such gouernment as doth the Quéens maiestie The. 23. vntruth employing a contradiction to youre former aunswere made to Mayster Feckenham as shall appeare The answere is here cited for an vntruthe but for triall it is referred to appeere in an other place on the other side of the leafe in the counterblast and there being cited also bicause nothing is proued but by M. Stapletons hearesay of an other contrarie answere the matter is there againe further deferred to be hearde an other daye when Maister Stapleton shall be occasioned to entreate more at large hereafter vpon the matter wher at the Calends of Gréece it shal be proued both an vntruth and to implie a contradiction The contradiction that he would enforce is betwéen a suborned answer forged to be made in the bishops name which he neuer made and this present answere which the B. maketh so that in déede there is no contradiction at al in his answere bicause the one of them is of their owne making not of his As for the vntruth of the Bishops answere standeth only on M. Stapletons bare saying that it is false and deceyuable And ye must wel weâ—…e that M. Stapl is of suche indifferencie and credence that he would not saye it on his worde if it were not so and therefore in any case ye must beléeue him or else ye marre his reckoning The. 34. 35. 36. 37. vntruths bicause they are the whole matter throughout the eight chapter wherwith he chargeth the Bishop in the answere to the chapter they are at â–ª large answered Besides a number of Master Stapletons vntruthes detected Moyses was not the chief priest or bishop The. 38. vntruth for Moyses was the chiefe Priest as shall be proued Howe this promise shall be proued or the Bishops saying improued to auoyde anticipations repetitons thou must resort to M. Stapletons proues and the answer thervnto The charge of chiefe gouernment ouer Gods people bothe in causes temporall and ecclesiasticall was committed to Iosue The 39. vntruth Iosue had not the supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes but Eleazarus had it Whether he had it that commaunded Eleazarus in ecclesiasticall matters or Eleazarus that obeyed his commaundement is easie to iudge And notwithstanding any thing that M. Stapleton bringeth beside his bare allegatioÌ„ Iosue had the supreme gouernement therin To Eleazar only belonged the administration of things belonging to the Priests office The. 40. vntruth For beside in all thinges to be doone of Iosue Eleazar should instruct him If this were beside the administration of things belonging to the Priestes office then to administer instruction in any thing vnto the Prince was not the Priests office For if it were belonging to his office why saye you it was beside being conteyned in it But sée your fonde reason the Bishop saith he had not the supreme gouernement but the administration of things belonging to his office yes say you he should instruct the Prince Ergo he had the supreme gouernment of him Neither had he say you that supreme gouernment as his office or belonging to him but besides and not belonging thervnto whyle the questioÌ„ is whether this supreme gouernement belong to the Priests office or to the â–ª Princes office but your self withal exclude it from the Priestes office And thus to nick vp on the score apace ye speak it séemeth ye can not wel tell what Dauid c. the supreme gouernour ouer all estates both of the laitie and of the clergie in all maneâ—… of causes The. 41. vntruth Dauid was not suprme gouernour in all maner causes but suffered the Leuites in Church matters to liue vnder the rule of their high Priest. As though these two might not bothe agrée verie wel togither except it were in such an vsurper as is your Pope As for the Quéenes Maiestie hir hyghnesse claymeth no suche Papaliâ—…ie but suffreth the inferiour ministers to liue vnder the rules of their superior Bishops yet hir supreme gouernment to ouersée that all of them obserue their rules in their vocations is no whit empaired Salomon deposed Abiathar The 42. vntruth for Salomon of his owne authoritie as your argument runneth deposed not Abiathar but executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Your selfe confesse the Bishops wordes M. Stapleton nor ye can for shame denie them the Scripture is plaine for them and therfore ye runne from them to the Bishops sense and say not his wordes but his meaning and argument is vntrue therein for he dyd it but not by his owne authoritie but executed Gods sentence as thoughe these were contradictorie to execute Gods sentence in doing it and to doo it by his owne authoritie when all authoritie of any Prince commeth likewyse from God and he is Gods minister and executer thereof and yet withall it is hys owne authoritie bicause the authoritie is giuen him of God thereto Althoughe herein chalenging the B. of one vntruthe ye vtter two vntruthe your self together on a clap First ye say he executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Where the texte that afterwarde ye cite fayth not so but to fulfill the wordes of the Lorde whiche he spake ouer the house of Hely in Silo which wordes of the Lorde we fynde out in thâ—… 2. and. 3. chapters of the first booke of the Kinges where the whole story is at large set out and deteâ—…s your falshoode The wordes that doe threaten Hely and his posteritie in the. 2. chapter were pronounced by a Prophet in déede but he is not named the text only sayth Venit auteÌ„ vir dei ad Hely ait ad eum haec dicit Dominus And there came a man of God to Hely and sayd vnto him thus sayth the Lorde c. This Prophet pronounced and was Gods minister therein among other things euen this deposition of Abiathar But this man of God was not Samuell who was at that time as yet but a childe The seconde time was in the next chapter by God him selfe that called Samuell thrée times and the
togither of such matters as he noteth in the B. for vntruthes which I referre to his common place theron Thirdly where the B. speaking of the occasion of M. Fe. wrangling in his conference with the B mentioned hys shrinking from his confederates in the conference at W. in the. 1. yere of the Q. maiestie Herevpon though he coÌ„fesseth saying I might now passe forth to the residue of M. Hornes booke yet must he not in any wise let slip this occasion of digression for otherwise he should want matter to sâ—…uffe vp his connterblast And so at large entreth to proue that they were vneuenly delt withall for proofe wherof he alledgeth diuers reasons First they were disaduantaged to be put to the profe of that wherof they were in possessioÌ„ I answer they were in possession of possessions in â—…éede not of the truth vnlesse they had it in their possession of imprisonmeÌ„t Secondly they gaue ouer the disputatioÌ„ not bicause they had not or did not shevve suffycient euidence but bicause they were very muche strayted for shortnesse of tyme and so belike coulde not finde it out Thirdly it was a fruitlesse and superfluous enterprise to dispute of those three matters only whether the seruice may be in the mother tong VVhether any one realme may alter and change the rites and ceremonies in the Church make new VVhether the masse â–ª be a sacrifice propiciatorie seeing that the. 1. and. 2. question be no questions of fayth And the 3. dependeth vpon the questioÌ„s of transubstantiation the reall presence vvhich ought first to haue bene discussed and then this as accessorie therevnto What a nuÌ„ber of starting holes the papists had to auoide the disputation they were farre better armed to find excuses to giue it ouer than prouided to go throughstitche therwith But had they had such euidence ready as ye pretende M. St. what néede they finde fault with the time although they had as much time as their aduerfaries had to prepare them selues And if they were strayghted for shortnesse of time to dispute onely of three matters and those as ye say not the weightiest neither why complayne ye of their questions to haue bene but three onely in so many and weightie matters as nowe stande in controuersie Could they dispatch so many great matters in so straight a time and would they whine to be straited for only three lesse matters Ha M. St. this is to broade before But ye wrythe the excuse an other way not so muche for the number as the lightnesse of the matters to be dependant and accessory to other questions aâ—…d to be no matters of fayth How light so euer ye woulde séeme to make them now ye haue made theÌ„ as waightie an other time before But let theÌ„ be as light as ye would haue them lesse to did ye not agrée on them yea did you not your selues deuise them vnwitting to the other parties Did ye not prepare for them might ye not the easelier haue answered vnto them these are but childishe excuses let vs heare what more ye haue Fourthly it was made before lay men as Iudges Yea there M. St. ye hitte the nayle on the head Ye woulde be disputers and Iudges too your selues His example of the Anabaptists disputation at Monster which he likeneth to this at VVestminster I passe ouer to his raylings and slaunderous common places Fifthly they should haue bene suffred to haue replied to their aduersaries which they could not be suffred to do If ye had put in disorderly ye had said true But would they haue kept the order by them selues deuised and agreed vpon they might haue replied at the full the doing was not in hucker mucker inowe heard it that can tell And your owne other excuses do plainly argue not that ye coulde not be suffred but that ye could not for the time or would not for the matter and néeded not pleading possession and thought not good for bicause of the Iudges with such other excuses that as your selfe confesse moued you to giue ouer the disputation Which howe it agréeth with this fifth excuse that ye could not be suffred to replie is easie to discerne and to take a lyer tardie in his owne tale Sixtly last say you surely amoÌ„g al other concerning the supremacie of the Prince in causes eccle c. there shoulde haue ben much more mature deliberation Deliberation is good in al things M. St. but wilfull prolonging foding on the time is neither good nor godly chiefly in Gods matters wherein we are bidden hodie si vocem 〈◊〉 andieritis nolite obdurare corda vestra But when would your deliberation be ripe M. St it appeareth by these your excuses that your selfe would be rotten or euer it would be ripe Ye would go to it with ripe deliberation that is to say as a beare goeth to the stake ye would aduise your self long or euer ye would willingly come to try your doctrine religion by disputation if ye could otherwise chose Howbeit by your owne tale these matters néede no such long protracting the time béeing so few so light as here in your excuses you pretend they be Yea but surely say you among al other things coÌ„cerning the supremacy of the Prince in causes ecclesiastical c there would haue ben much more mature deliberation Why M. St. here was neither al causes nor the cause of supremacie debated But onely as your selfe say three accessarie matters and matters nothing touching faith And therefore ye ouershoote your selfe once againe to put in this excuse But what is your small drift of all these excuses forsooth this The Popes legate should haue bene president at the disputation of these matters and then it had bene a formall disputatioÌ„ Then the Catholikes had ben indifferently delt withall Then would ye haue refused no controuersie Then would ye not haue complained of the straightnes of time Nor desired furder delaye Nor refused either to haue answered or replied if the Popes legate had bene president at it But who seeth not that this is no indifferencie but what argument bring ye to proue that the Popes legate should be president thereof Especially considering say you that aboue ten hundreth yeares past in disputations of matters of faith whereto the Catholikes were prouoked in Aphrica the saide Catholikes required that at the saide disputations should be present the Legates of the sea of Rome as the chiefe and principall sea of Christendome Ye forget M. St. that in Aphrica likewise the Catholikes refused the B. of Rome his anthoritie and detected his falshoode in forging of Canons therefore Wel let that now go as forgotten And let vs sée your argument which in effect is this Aboue ten hundreth yeres past when the sea of Rome florished in more perfect religion and faith the Catholickes of Aphrica in their disputations of faith required that at the sayd disputations should be present the
Legates of the sea of Rome as the chiefe principall sea of Christendome Ergo We now in all our disputations of causes Ecclestastical especially concerning the supremacie should acknowledge the Pope by his Legates to be president thereof This argument followeth not M. Stapl. reasoning from that tune to this from their requiring to our submission from Aphrike to England from presence to presidence from certaine questions to all questions from matters of saithe to these in hande which your selfe say are nons From the chiefe and principall sea then to the vniuersall supremacie that the Pope claymeth now in all which pointes there is no sequele and therefore your argument is starke naught nor all your vayne excuses will hide their frowarde disobedience or strengthen the weaknesse of their naughtie cause in the saide disputation But let vs now saith M. St. returne to M. Horne for these matters were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 M. Stapleton looked quite besides his marke The third Diuision THe third Diuision sheweth the cause and occasion why M. Feck deliuered this his treatise to the Bishop not as he pretendeth to be resolued at the Bishops handes for he had sayd before that the matter it selfe was grounded here pointyng to his brest that shall neuer go out But beyng charged of the B. herefore that he had neither conscience nor constancie M. Feckenham shewed and deliuered this his treatise to the B. to shew what he had suffred for the same and how it was grounded and setled in him long before Which argueth first his falshood in pretending to haue offred the booke before to the B. as scruples by him to be resolued in And also his furder falshood in setting forth of his owne bald resolutions to his scruples vnder the B. name To the former parte M. Stapleton replieth it is an vnlikely tale and referreth it to his score of vntruthes Where it is answered vnto The later parte for the resolutions he leaueth it to a place more apropriate where the matter shal be more conueniently and more fully discused And this is all that he saith for the cléering of M. Feckenhams false title The fourth Diuision MAster Feckenham in the beginning of his treatise propounding one chiefe purpose and entente as he saithe of this Othe to be for a more sauegarde to be had of the Queenes royall person and her highnesse most quiet and prosperous raigne Offreth to sweare thus muche that her Highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this Realme and of all other her Highnesse dominions and Countries according as the expresse woordes are in the beginning of the sayde Othe And offreth yet furder to sweare That her Highnesse hath vnder God the souerainetie and rule ouer all manner of persons borne within these her Highnes realmes of what estate either Ecclesiasticall or Temporall soeuer they be To this the B. of Winchester answereth that this beyng one chiefe entent of the Othe as is graunted whosoeuer denieth the chiefe parte of the Othe what soeuer in wordes he pretende in his deedes denieth withall the chiefe entent therof But M. Feckenham doth thus Ergo How soeuer by woordes he would seeme to tender her Maiesties safetie his deedes declare his meanyng to be cleane contrarie The Minor that M. Feck denieth the principall parte of the Othe he proueth thus The principallest parte of the Othe is the Q. Highnes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall so well as Temporall but about this M. Feck dalieth with dominions and persons denieth the causes which is the matter it selfe wherein the gouernance doth consist Ergo He denieth the chiefest parte of the Othe The Maior that the gouernance in Ecclesiasticall causes is the chiefest thing that the Othe doth purporte is euident The Minor as it appereth by this nice daliance of M. Feck so the B. furder proueth it by this his treatise by his deepe sighes grones desiring a change and ascribing to the Pope this principall parte of the Othe M. St. to counterblast these the B. arguments bloweth apace with bothe his chéekes With the one breathing out dispitefully all riffe raffâ—… that he coulde gleane togither to deface as he thought the protestantes with disobedience With the other he laboreth to qualifie the disobedience of the Papists namely of M. Feckenham But before these two partes wherein the most of his replie consisteth he prefixeth yet one page declaring first that this parcell of the Othe is no parte of the Princes royall power and wherefore the Papists refuse the same First saith he There haue bene many kings in this realme before our time that haue raigned vertuously quietly prosperously most honorably and most victoriously which neuer dreamed of this kinde of supremacie and yet men of such knowledge that they could soone espie wherein their authoritie was empayred and were of such courage and stoutnesse that they would not suffer at the Popes handes or at any other any thing done derogatorie to their Royall power This argument standeth vpon the opinioÌ„ of Princes heretofore and is framed thus What soeuer the noble and prosperous Kinges to fore tooke to be so or tooke not to be so the same was and is so or was not and is not so But many noble and prosperous Kings heretofore tooke this kinde of supremacie to be no parte of their royall power Ergo It was not nor is any parte thereof The Maior which God wote is very fonde and weake he would furnishe and strengthen with their wisedome and stoutnesse if it had bâ—…ne iniuriouâ—… to their authoritie they were so wise they could soone espie it were so stoute they would not suffer it But who seeth not that they could not very soone espie it in that palpable darknesse of poperie and that worldly politike wisedome is no good proofe of soone espying the spirituall wisdome of God and his worde and of their dutie in setting forth thereof This knowledge was not so clerely espied then as thanks be to God now it is being pulled froÌ„ vnder the bushell wherewith it was couered and the Angel of darknesse being stripped out of that shape of the Angell of light that when he was cladde withall be bleared many wise Princes eyes And though many of them were coragious stoute yea espied to what belonged vnto them attempted also to get it yet who seeth not that the Popes tirannie ouermatched them And yet suche Princes were there many wise stoute and vertuouse that dreamed not as you say but well saw this their authoritie and tooke it on them and withstood the Popes vsurpation Which improueth your Maior that ye would séeme to cary away so cléere And withall ouerturneth your argument by the like Some Princes thought it was no parte of their royall power Ergo it was not Some Princes thought it was parte of their royall power Ergo it was Neyther of these argumentes ye sée doth holde for still the matter is where it was who thought so or who
And herein hath the Quéenes highnes followed as ye say both her Fathers and Brothers faith also But ye wring al to that faith wherein he was before beguiled as though she should follow him in that he was deceiued not wherein he founde out forsoke the deceyuers that you with your painted wordes might likewise deceyue her Highnes now as they deceâ—…ued her Maiest father then But sée how God turned their deceyt agaynst them selues That where your Pope to flatter K. Henrie withall ascribed to him this title as it were the prophecie of another Caiphas Defender of the faith the King espying the falshood of the Pope became the very defender of the true faith in déede abolishing the Pope the very impugner peruerâ—…er therof and so as you say truer than ye wist M. Stap. atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthy title and stile yet remaining in her Highnesse of the defendour of the faith Neither as you faintly say this title onely remayneth in her Highnes but the thing that the title doth entende her highnesse is in very déede not in a â—…aked name the defender thereof And hath defended her subiects not from foreyne power of straungers onely brought in by the Papistes and from all bodily iniurie and oppression of Popish firebrandes or any other tirannie but defendeth euen our faith from all errours heresies superstitions and Idolatries And this it is for a Prince to be a defender of the faith in déede which argueth a plaine supremacie Now after M. Stapl. hath thus flattred and on his knees humbled him selfe to obtayne a placard of their disobedience vp he starteth once againe and geueth another fling at vs to reuerse this crime of disobedience on vs thinking so to excuse this disobedience of the Papistes thereby And first he setteth on those whome he calleth round cap Ministers howbeit if he remembred that within this hundreth yeres and vpward the popish priestes themselues did weare round cappes he would not be so hastie to giue that nick name He asketh who are those that haue preached with a chaine of golde about their neckes in steade of a tippet Assoyle your question your selfe M. Stapl. I know no such protestant What slaunderous reporte you haue heard of any singuler person I know not no such order is alowed Although it be common among your popish Cardinals Bishops Abbottes Deanes Canons and other beyonde the Seas so to ruffle as ye speake not onely with a chayne of golde but with hatte and feather cappe and agglets rapier and cloke hawke and houndes ruffians fooles wayting on them and oftentimes in complete harneys on a great courser or on a palfrey with a courtisane behinde them thus go the chiefest of your fleshly spiritualtie belike they learned it of that royster Pope Iohn 13. howbeit no Pope doeth amende this disorder Upbrayd not therefore such petit and perticular things to vs which is so great and so common a fault with you But Master Stapleton will go more certainely to worke and charge the Protestantes ex scripto wyth their owne writings VVho are those I pray you sayth he that write sint sanè ipsi Magictratuâ—… membra paries ciues ecclesiâ—…dei imo vt ex toto corde sint omnes precari decet Flagrent quoque ipsi zelo pietatis sed non sint capita Ecclesiâ—… quia ipsis non competit iste 〈◊〉 Let the Magistrates also be members and partes and citizens of the Church of God yea and that they maye bee so it behoueth vs all wyth all our heart to praye Let them bee feruent in the godly zeale of Religion but they may not be heades of the Churche in no case for thys supremacie doth not appertaine to them These are no Papists I trow M. Horne but your owne dere brethren of Magdeburge in their new storie ecclesiasticall by the which they would haue all the worlde directed Yea in that storie wherof one percell Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Queenes maiestie that beare the worlde in hande they are the true and zelous schollers of Luther Thus triumpheth M. Stapleton against the wryters of the storie of Magdeburge The effect of his argument is this These wryters do say that Princes may not be heades of the Church Ergâ—… no prince ouer all Ecclesiasticall persons causes in his owne dominions may be supreme gouernour Howe euill this argument followeth is easie to perceyue and the better in behâ—…lding howe impudently master Stapleton wresteth these wryters But he forceth not thereof bicause they be his aduersaries For that which they write not simplie agaynst the supremacie of princes in Ecclesiasticall causes but agaynst suche supremacie of princes as the Pope vsurped that wresteth he as spoken agaynst such supreme gouernment as the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and vseth The writers hereof hauing set forth two â—…nsamples of that age the one of a godly princes gouernmet by Constantinus Pogonotus the other of a wicked tyrant by â—…eraclius to declare what kinde of supremacie they disalow Thâ—…y she we that this is the scope of the matter iste est scopuâ—…res ê™ magistratibuâ—… politicis non sit licitum cudere formaâ—… religionuÌ„ in perniciem veritatis ita vel coÌ„cilietur veritaâ—… meÌ„daâ—…ium vel vtraque simul sopiant id quod tandem â—…um habet exitum vt regnent errores veritas crucifigatur sepeliatur This is the â—…cope of the matter that it is not lawfull for politike magistrates to coyne formes of religion to the destruction of the truth so that thereby truth and falsehoode should be reconciled togither or both of them togither quayled VVhich at the length commeth to this ende that errors raigne the truth is crucified buried And so followeth the sentence that M. St. citeth let the magistrates also be mebers c. but let them not be heades of the Church Whereby appeareth plainly what maner of heades they meane And this they do not once nor twise setting forth the doings of the wicked â—…yrant Heraclius for ensample that was altogither led by affection and not indifferent to heare â—…ither party nor called in counsell lerned and faithfull men nor called any synode to trie the matter nor serched the truth diligently but being puffed vppe with pride and deuising oâ—…ely with a flattring Monke that after set vp the false fayth of Mahomet determineth in a corner of a moste weightie controuersie and afterwardes will haue the matter neuer called into question This Emperour they call Architectum religionis and demaund what man well in his wittes woulde alowe such attempts processe and executions concluding it is not lawfull form as religionum conflare c. To make newe formes of religions and obtrude them to the Church without all kind of godly honest modest and comely gainsaying refuting therof All this and much more say they of that kinde of supreme gouernement in
now Luther can take no place amongst vs he obiecteth another vnto vs one Andreas Modrenius And yet his saying also maketh God wote ful little for the Papists herein Who saith there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and supreme head in the whole Church in all causes ecclesiasticall What conclude ye M. St. herevpon Ergo it must be your Pope or no christian prince And here as though all these were not yet sufficient testimonies ye bring in Caluin But since ye doe it but to fill vp your booke with that common allegation of your side which being also not omitted of M. FeckeÌ„ham is to be referred to be propounded and answered vnto in his proper place I therefore remit you thither Onely to that ye say he so spitefully handled King Henrie the eyght as hee neuer handled the Pope more spitefully I aunswere this is but your spitefull lie to deface the Protestantes Else why doe ye not proue the same And as for your Pope it is euident also he neuer handled him spitefully but onely reproued his vyces and errours by the worde of god But howe spitefullie your Pope and popishe Prelates so farre as they coulde handeled him and howe spitefully they handle all Protestantes that they maye once sette their spitefull spirituall fingers vppon all the worlde doeth sée And yet the silie Protestantes muste beare all the blame it is not ynoughe for them to beare the iniuryes This lesson ye learned of the Diuell of Dowgate to bite and whine also or rather ye doe as Esops Woolfe did chalenge the poore Lambe for troubling his water and to misuse him spitefully but thys mercifull Woolfe deuoured this spitefull Lambe He vrgeth vs farther in great outcryes with a sentence of one Anthonie Gilbie our own Countriman The summe of his argument is this Anthonie Gilbie an Englishe man speaketh verie vnreuerently and vnreligiously of King Henrie the eight Ergo the Protestantes now in England whatsoeuer they pretende and dissemble in wordes in heart mislike the Quéenes maiesties gouernment How doth this follow M. St and yet ye wrest Anthonie Gilbies sentence also He speaketh not of this supremacie neyther but in plaine wordes of such a supremacie in England as the Pope chalengeth all ouer Christendome Though therefore he be greatly to be blamed for his vnreuerent speach and for his vnaduised mistaking of hys Princes lawfull authoritie yet is he not to be belyed as though he spoke of all kinde of supremacie in all princes simplie It is a shame as they say M. St. euen to belie the Diuell But sée how the matter falleth out Ye haue brought Anthonie Gilbyes sentence agaynst vs and the Quéenes maiesties authoritie Haue ye not wel holpeÌ„ your self if this sentence also make flat agaynst your pope For if as he sayth therin truely Christ ought onely to be the head of the church the placing of any other displaceth him then is not the pope the head also but the placing of him displaceth christ But the Pope chalengeth to be the heade of the Churche also which our prince doth not Ergo not our prince but your Pope displaceth christ And thus thinking to beate vs ye still make a rodde for your owne Popes tale And here sodenly calling to mind how far he hath straied in forraging out these sentences he returneth a little to the Bishop setting on him for calling the Pope the Papists god in earth the archeheretike of Rome and that M. Fec would haue him reigne in the Queenes place Besturring himselfe with a heape of arguments to defende his Pope Besides his scoffes raylings and other rhetoricall floures quoted in his common places But first for his Pope sayth he VVe make no God of the Pope and sometimes perhaps no good man neyther In déede M. Stap. ye should haue more than both your handes full to make your Pope sometimes a good man â–ª ye néede not put perhaps to the matter It would pose him selfe and all the Diuels in hell and that oftentymes to worke such a miracle on him as that man of sinne that childe of perdition and aduersarie of God to become a good man. But yet I say beware howe ye speake such buggishe words of him as not to be a good man. Whose wil is law whose law is all power in heauen in earth in hell Nowe can this be an ill man Beware least this come to his eares M. Stap. and withall that ye make him not a God in earth Are not you of theyr religion that beléeue and confesse this principle 〈◊〉 deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope Yea and as some say he is Plusque deuâ—… If ye be beware his thunderbolt If ye be not whie defende ye him and his errors against the truth of God whie forsake you your most vertuous Prince to follow a straunger and that an yll man but you answere And yet we reuerence him for his office and authoritie that Christ so amply and honourably gaue him for preseruation of vnitie and quietnesse in his Church That ye reuerence him in déede and that is more adore him to is manifest But the patent of that his office and authoritie that ye crake Christe so amplie and so honorably gaue your Pope ye shewe none nor where nor how nor when he gaue it Only ye tell vs of the endes wherefore he gaue it For the preseruation of vnitie and quietnes in his Church But if these were the endes M. St. he hath forfeited his patent long ago That not onely disagreeth from the expresse wordes and commauÌ„dement of Christ but swerueth one Pope from another And how chance he setteth his own scholemeÌ„ his Canonists at no better vnitie his Thomists and his Scotistes his sects of Religions at no better quietnes than a tâ—…ade a snake togither how chance he agreeth no better with his Bishops his own colledge of cardinals How chance he falleth out so often with Emperours and kings setteth Princes their subiectes by the eares togither why fighteth he so fast with both his swordes like king Arthures dubble sworded knight why had he rather at this day that al christendome were in a broyle so much blâ—…ud were cruelly shedde than he would relent one inche of his honour one penie of his filthie gaine one iâ—…te of his errors Idolatries false dectrines that eueÌ„ are coÌ„fessed of his own secte giue place to the worde of God is this his preseruing of vnitie and quietnes in the Church of Christ or had he any such patent giuen him hath he not lost and lost it againe and will ye still reuerence and adore him for it Secondly where the Bishop calleth your Pope the arch-heretike of Rome Your wisedome say you with like truth also appeareth in that ye call the Pope the Archeheretike of Rome naming no man and so your wordes so liberally waÌ„tonly cast out do as well comprehende
S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyrs and Bishops there as any other The summe of this argumâ—…t is this The Pope now aliue or to come for the B. speaketh of one that they would haue raigne in the Queenes place is called an archeheretike Ergo S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyres are called archheretickes His answere to this is thus I promise you a well blowen blast and handsomly handled I answere ye againe M. Stapl. I promise ye this is a well made argument and handsomly answered Ye bragge much for your Pope of S. Peter and S. Clement and other holy martyres Your Pope doth well M. Stapl to bragge of them for that is all the neerenesse that he coÌ„meth to them S. Peter and those Martyrs were as like your Pope and he as like them as Caiphas was like to christ If they saw his deings and his craking of them they would neuer crake againe of him but call him archeheretike to But he may crake of these holy martyrs as the Earle of Warwick craked in king Edward the fourths daies that it was a iolier thing to make Kings than to be him self a King and so may your Pope bragge that it is a iolier matter to make martyrs than to be a martyr him selfe He can make saintes he saith I beléeue it the poore saintes féele it dayly whose stoles he dippeth in their bloud So like is he to s. Peter S. Clement other holy Martyrs that where he is none him selfe as were they yet in that defect he will reâ—…oÌ„pence God with store of martyrs of his owne making And for this resemblaunce if the Pope be now touched S Peter by by is touched and he that speaketh generally of the Popes now a dayes if he name not one certaine Pope casteth out his wordes wantonly at S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyrs of the old time But and ye had not bene wantonly disposed M. St. your self you might wel haue perceyued whom the B. meant nothing the old Bishops of Rome of whome whether S. Peter were euer any or no is an other question and ye are well stripped out of that Lions skinne But he spake plainely of such Bishops as now vsurping the sea of Rome ye would haue to raigne in the Queenes place But let not the matter go so M. Stapleton VVith like finenesse say you ye call him archehereticke that is supreme iudge of all heretickes and heresies to I answere with the like finenesse ye take that for graunted that is chiefly denied By this fine Sophisticall figure Petitio principij your finenesse M. St. will hurt you euery boy in the scooles would hisse out such fine reasoning Ye call him archeheretike say you that hath already iudged you and your Patriarches for archeheretikes I wiste as well might the fellon at the barre in VVestminster hall to saue his life if it might be call the iudge the strongest theese of all And doubtlesse had he a Prince on his side his plea were as good as yours is Let go the Prince M. Stapleton that is to much trecherie and more than felonie though ye liken vs to the fellon to resemble the Quéenes most excellent Maiestie to an abbettour of theeues and fellons then I will answere your I wiste with an other I wiste I wiste as well the strongest theefe of all might crie stoppe theefe by any true man to saue the pursuite from him selfe and his crie were as good as the Popes crie that we not he are the archheretikes and doubtlesse hauing such confederates on his side as you to helpe to crie so with him the theeues crie might séeme more true than the true mans Especially if as you would haue the matter go that the theefe should be made iudge in his owne case to when would this theefe condemne him selfe trowe you do ye not perceyue M. Stapleton that your comparison fayleth of the indge in VVestminster hall against a fellon when saw ye there a iudge sit and giue sentence in his owne cause him selfe beyng on the one side the principall partie what Iustice or lawe call you that you should therefore let VVestminster hall alone and say at Rotâ—… in Rome or in the Popes coÌ„sistorie and where he will siâ—…te as Iudge on him selfe and vs There in déede he hath Iudged vs to be the archeheretikes but euen this vniust doyng sheweth him selfe to be the very archeheretike Otherwise if his cause were good he durst come downe from the bench and pleade with his aduersaries the truth or falshood thereof Which till he do he plaieth the parte of an archetyrant also Now say you where ye say we would haue the Pope to raigne here in the Queenes place proceedeth from your like truth and wisedome For albeit the Popes authoritie was euer chiefe for matters Ecclesiasticall yet was there neuer any so much a noddie to say and beleue the Pope raigned here the Pope and the King being euer two distinct persons farre different the one from the other in seuerall functions and administrations and yet well concurrant and coincident togither without any imminution of the one or the others authoritie I answere with the like truth and wisdome as ye reasoned before so ye frame also this reason Ye say say you we would haue the Pope to raigne in her place Ergo ye say we would haue the Pope to be King. Hereupon ye make your distinction of raigning and hauing supreme authoritie and so ye conclude there was neuer any so much a noddie to say and beleeue the Pope raigned here First your argument is faultie for putting the case ye will not for shame say that ye would haue him King here yet if he tooke from her a principall parte of her royall power did he not then raigne in her place though he claymed not to be King and since ye vaunt of wisedome what a wise distinction is this of raygning and hauing supreme authoritie to bleare the simples eyes with woordes for so farre forth as he claymeth the supreme authoritie which he doth in all supreme matters as are Ecclesiasticall and that ouer her so well as any other so farre foorth he claymeth to raygne ouer her Nowe this being a parte of her royall power deth he not clayme to raigne euen ouer the principall parte and so is King thereof But say you who was euer so much a noddie as to say he raygned here Sir this noddie is euen your Pope that maketh this clayme you your selfe for him Do you not here say although you greatly lie therin that he was euer chiefe for matters Ecclesiasticall and do not all your complices say that he raigneth for spirituall matters both here all ouer Christendome Yea I wil go further for the temporalties to I pray you sauing the reuerence of your noddie who raygned heere when for certayne dayes the Popes legate kept the crowne of Englande from king Iohn and gaue it
sticke at that ye will not sticke and make that false that ye graunt true or else ye proue master Feck not to be ignorant contrarie to his defence and all the rest of your owne défence of him as we shall sée your wordes afterwarde In the meane time let vs sée howe pretily ye shift off the matter onely bicause the Bishop names Tho. of Aquine a schole Papist for the diuision of Ignoraunce thinking ye haue gotten a wonderfull aduauntage thereby for the Popes supremacie But nowe sayth M. Stap. the verye authour brought forth by master Horne so fullie and effectually dischargeth M. Feck of all three and chargeth M. Horne with the worst of them three that is wilfulnesse and malice as he shal winne small worship by alleaging of S. Thomas For S. Tho. sayeth plainely that we are obliged and bounde vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to beleeue that the Pope is the onely supreme heade of the whole Church Nowe fearing as not without good cause that the B. would in this matter reiect the authoritie of this Thomas whom our Thomas calleth a late latine writer and to much affectionate to the Pope as it were by preuention He can not well reiect his authoritie sayeth he vsing it him selfe And why so Sir I pray you must euery one that citeth him in any one poynt receyue and admit his authoritie to in euerie poynt Is it lawfull for the Sorbonistes the Scholemen and the whole rabble of the Papistes yea for Thomas Stapleton him selfe to accept Thomas of Aquines authoritie in some poyntes and to reiect his authoritie in other some poyntes and is it not lawfull for the Bishop or anye other to vse the same libertie The Sorbonistes affirme of this Thomas Illa doctrina non potest esse in omnibus sic approbata c. That doctrine can not in all thinges be so approued that conteyneth many thinges erronious in fayth but as they say the foresayde doctrine of Saint Thomas not onelye in the matter of the absolute necessitie of a creature c. but also in manye other thinges conteyneth manye matters erronious in fayth And againe Non oportet credere c. VVee muste not beleeue that the doctrine it selfe is in no parte thereof erronious or hereticall wherein are conteyned manye contrarieties and repugnancies yea euen in the matter perteyning to the sayth â–ª but manye suche contrarieties and repugnancies are conteyned in the doctrine of Saynt Thomas Agayne 〈◊〉 dicunt aliqui c. And some saye for thys that manye maye denye the glosses of the decrees and Decreâ—… when the glosse doeth openlye denye the texte and lykewyse some saye of the ordinarye glosses of the Byble that notwithstanding seeme to bee of greater authoritie when they are alleaged for authoritie than is the Doctryne of Saint Thomas The sixte example maye bee giuen of certayne Doctours whiche are not canonized Saintes as the venerable Anselme Byshoppe of Cant. Hughe of Saint Victor and certayne other whose sayinges or wrytinges are in certayne poyntes founde erronious and yet theyr doctrine seemeth to bee no lesse authenticall than the doctrine of Saint Thomas sithe they are of the skilfull in their scolasticall actes alleaged for authoritie nor are wonted to bee denyed but their sayinges reuerently to be glosed and expounded whiche notwythstanding the Schoolemen are not woont to doe on the sayinges of Saint Thomas and therefore it seemeth presumptuous so to extoll hys Doctrine ouer them and other Doctours that wee maye not beleeue and affirme that hee erred in fayth euen as other also haue erred And after this as likewise before reckoning vp diuerse errours these spéeches are common Ista locutio est de virtute sermonis falsa multum impropria c. This speech in the force of the wordes is false and verie improper Ista doctrina multos errores continet c. This Doctrine conteyneth manie errours Uidetur multipliciter erroneum c. It seemeth diuerse wayes erroneous Deficit in multis c. If fayles in many poyntes Non est verum c. It is not true Et breuiter haec alia multa erronea falsa impropriè dicta videÌ„tur multis in praedicta doctrina contineri quae tamen ex taediâ—… pertransimus And briefly these and many other erronious false improper sayings seeme to many to be conteyned in the foresaide doctrine the which notwithstanding we ouerpasse for tediousnesse And from hence they discend to manifest errours in diuinitie And in conclusion write thus of him They say also that in verie many places of his doctrine he erred by reason of this that he applied to much the principles of philosophie or rather certaine wordes of Philosophers to the conclusions of Diuinitie Thus say the great Censors of the Popish doctrine agaynst Thomas of Aquine so well they agrée togither in vnitie of doctrine obiecting discorde vnto vs Yea the whole swarme of Papists not excepting our Thom. St. here him selfe vnlesse he be returned to the truth since he wrote his booke reiecteth and condemneth Thom â–ª of Aquines iudgement and authoritie in one of the most necessarie matters of Christian religion namely the doctrine of iustification For expounding this sentence of S. Paule Arbitramur hemâ—…neÌ„ iustificari absque operibus legis Arbitramur enim nos c. For we being taught of Christ thinke sayth Thomas according to the truth of the Apostle that euerie man whether he be Iewe or Gentile is iustified by faith Actes 15. By fayth purifying their hearts that without the workes of the law and that not onely without the ceremoniall works which did not giue grace but also without the works of the moral commandements according to that saying to Titus 3. Not of the works of the righteousnes that we haue wrought The reason is presumed that we are saued for our merits the which he excludeth when he sayth not of the works of the righteousnesse which we haue done But the true reason is the onely mercy of god There is not therefore in them the hope of iustification sed in sola fide but in fayth alone VVorkes are not the cause that any bodie is iust before God but they are rather executions and the manifestings of righteousnesse Where Tho. of Aquine thus according to Gods worde speaketh the truth as in this poynt here of iustification the Bishop and all other faythfull receyue his iudgement and admit the same with better reason than the Papists reiect it But where as in many other poyntes he swarueth from the truth though the Papists saint him neuer so much yet there all true saintes with good reason refuse him As in this that master Stapleton citeth out of him who confesseth him selfe that Thomas being a late latine writer wrote partiallye in this poynte bycause hée was to muche affectioned to the Pope and shall we beléeue such an affectionate wryter in hys partiall affection Or shall we beléeue master Stapleton no
ye alleage that the king as soone as he is chosen shall bestowe his studie vppon the reading of the Deuteronomie VVhere Moses sayth that in doubtfull causes the people shoulde haue their recourse to the sayde Priestes and to the iudge for the time being meaning the highe Priest of whome they shoulde learne the truth and are commaunded to doe accordingly euen vnder paine of death All this ye say the Bishop wilily and sleightly slipt ouer and yet in the verie sayde Chapter it was euen the next to that he alleaged Alacke master Stapleton that euer yée should for shame haue thus ouerslipt your selfe Were ye not halfe a sléepe when ye made this slippe For I will not recharge you so harde wyth wylinesse and sleight but with palpable grosnesse and marueylous negligent ignoraunce in a student of diuinitie to beate so much vppon a text as you doe here charging your aduersarie wyth wylinesse sleight vnfaythfulnesse vnskilfulnesse leauing out curtalling and ouerslipping and your selfe shewe so little skil or regarde in citing your text that eyther ye know not or ye care not what commeth before what commeth after what commeth next what commeth not next nor nere it Ye saye that the sentence of the Priestes and the Iudges iudgements on doubtfull cases commeth euen the next to that the Bishop alleaged in the verie sayde Chapter Turne your booke to the Chapter once againe M. Stap. reade the wordes that come next yea all the wordes that follow in that Chapter Nor his heart shall be lifted vp in pride aboue his brethren neyther shall he turne to the right hande or to the left that both he and his childe may raigne long time ouer Israell Doth not this follow next and is not this the last sentence of the sayde Chapter Then if it be in that verie Chapter it commeth not as you say next vnto it but must néedes go before and so doth it Neyther yet the next before for there commeth betwene them fiue or six periods at the least And as they are two diuerse places so are they two sundrie matters Ye charge therefore the Bishop amisse with wilie and sleight ouerslipping where nothing is ouerslipped though the former sentence be not alleaged And ye falsely ioyne them togither saying The King shall bestow his studie vpon the reading of the Deuteronomie where Moyses sayth that in doubtfull causes c. When as Moses there sayth not so Ye falsely say it commeth next to it which it doth not but goeth before in another matter and diuerse sentences betwene What a foule ouerslippe was this of you that could prie so narrowly to séeke a slippe ouer a slipper in anothers footing where was not so muche as any tripping awrie and your selfe vnawares haue slipt into a foule lie ouer the sloppes and all But if we let slippe this as but a grosse ouerslippe yet maye we not so let slip M. Stapletons slipperie and false exposition for all he sayeth that their priestes can not expounde the scripture amisse For where the text sayth the people sholde haue their recourse to the priestes and to the iudge for the time beeing meaning sayth M. Stapleton the high priest In déede so doth his popishe glosse interline it and yet euen Lyra that woulde shift of the matter as much as he might for his Pope with his morall or rather marre all gloses hereon both noteth in his margin that these be twaine summâ—… sacerdos iudex the high Priest and the Iudge And sayth in his casibus c. In these and the like cases they must runne vnto the higher Iudges that is to say â–ª to the high Priest and to the chiefe Iudge of Israell And althoughe sometime it chaunced that one person had both these offices as appeareth by Hely who was both chiefe Iudge and chiefe Priest yet for the most part as they are distinct offices so were they commonly in distinct and seuerall persons And to proue this further by the penaltie which as you say was vnder the paine of death the which iudgement apperteyned to the Iudge but ordinarily it was not lawfull for the high priestes to iudge any man to death as euen the wicked priestes to cloke their murther when Pilate sayde vnto them Accipite eum vos c. Take you him and iudge him according to your law coulde replie like to the papisticall Priestes that post of the bodyes death to the temporall power Nobis non licet quemque interficere It is not lawfull for vs to kill any man but the Iudge that this place speaketh of should ordinarily condemne to death the refuser Ex indicis decreto moriatur homo ille Let that man die by the iudges decree Ergo he meaneth not that this ordinarie Iudge shoulde be the high priest Besides this the very text is plaine in making this distinction to the Priestes and to the Iudge not to the Iudge meaning the priest Againe The commandement of the high Priest and the decree of the Iudge Which fully importeth that he meaneth not the one by the other but expresseth two diuerse persons and two seuerall offices distinctly Wherfore master Stapleton apparantly wresteth the text thus flatly to say that he meaneth the high Priest by the name of Iudge to proue that his Pope hath no péere but all iudgement remayneth in him alone in euery difficult matter of religion And here againe appeareth another of his false and purposed ouerslippes Moses sayth he doth say that in doubtfull causes the people should haue their recourse to the priests Whie doe ye here master Stapleton forget your former marginall censure of leauing out anie materiall partes of the sentence telling vs of doubtful causes but not telling vs what those doubtfull causes were and speake as doubtfully as though they were matters of doctrine religion and ecclesiasticall ordinaunces which are the matters in question betwéene the partyes when this place speaketh onely of decyding a difficult or doubtfull matter betweene bloud and bloud plea and plea plague and plague in matters of stryfe But none of these specifications what maner of doutfull causes hée ment woulde you expresse for feare it woulde then bée to soone espyed that this sentence made nothing at all for the supreme iudgement of your Pope And yet after these two sleightes the one of remoouing the ciuill Prince or iudge from this iudgement with the Priestes and ascribing all to the Priestes alone to make it serue your purpose the better The other by slipping ouer all these doubtfull causes in the sentence expressed as thoughe it were simplie spoken wythout anye specification to make it serue for the Priestes absolute iudgemente in all ecclesiasticall ordinaunces When ye haue wyth thys dubble sleyght and wylinesse thus wrested the Text then come yée in ruffling lyke a lustye Rutterkin and swappe mée downe hereon this iolie marginall note An other sentence in the sayde Chapter by master Horne alleaged that ouerthroweth all his boast God saue al
master Stapleton here is no small boast I trowe We had nowe néede to beware betymes for feare the Bishoppe be here quite ouerthrowne since that master Stapleton maketh so prowde a chalenge Let vs therefore take héede to hys argument on thys place VVhiche place sayeth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayde that the King and others shoulde receyue not onelye the letter whiche as Saint Paule sayeth doeth kyll but the true and syncere meaning withall wherein standeth the lyfe of the letter as the lyfe of man wythin hys bodie yea the eternall lyfe whereof by following lewde lying expositions of holye wâ—…itte wee are spoyled at the Priestes handes Is this the conclusion of all this great crake M. St. that the B. should be quite ouerthrowne by this sentence what one word is here not only of this sentence but euen of your owne well weighed and considered conclusion theron which hath come nere vnto much lesse ouerthrowne the Bishops assertion Which if ye would haue ouerthrowne ye should haue concluded agaynst it and thus haue reasoned Moses sayde to the people of Israell if any hard or doubtfull thing in iudgement rise vp with thee betwixt bloud and bloud plea and plea plague and plague in matters of strife within the Citie c. Go to the Priestes and vnto the Iudge that shall be in those dayes c. Ergo a Christian king ought not to chalenge or take vpon him any such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall matters as doth the Queenes maiestie This conclusion in déede quite ouerthroweth the Bishops assertion But who séeth not that this sentence is to farre fetched to inferre any such conclusion And therfore master Stapleton thoughe this was his buttâ—… on whiche his eyâ—… shoulde haue béene fixed and brought his proues to haue improued this yet durst he not once touche or come nighe it for very shame for if he had he sawe that euery boye in the scholes would haue hissed out his argument And therefore wilyly weighing and considering howe he might make it séeme to serue to some purpose that he had craked on so much This place sayth he well weighed and considered serueth to declare that I haue sayd that Kings and others should receyue not onely the bare letter but the true and sincere meaning withall c. at the priestes handes And is this all that this place serueth to M. Stapleton for I dare say you haue well weighed and considered the matter that from so great a boast are so sodenly fallen into so déepe a consideration of the bare letter killing and the true quickening sense therof Wheras that text if ye would but meanely weigh and consider it once againe neyther talketh of any killing letter or liuing sense at all but of certaine doubtfull cases of strife nor can serue to confirme those sayings of Christ and Saint Paule without manifest wresting of it But to what purpose doe ye so well weigh and consider that whiche is nothing in question and that which is in question denyed and you should proue without any weighing or considering ye take it for confessed Who doubteth of this that Princes should not onely receyue the bare letter but the true sense and meaning withall at the priestes handes This Princes in déede should do which if they had alwayes done they shoulde not haue receyued so many of their lewde lying expositions as they haue done here to fore at the priestes hands who herein deceyued princes and gaue them not the true meaning and sense togither with the copie of Gods worde but debarred Princes of copie thereof of letter sense and all féeding them wyth the vayne fables and lewde lying expositions of theyr owne deuisings Wherefore Lyra noteth here vppon the Hebrue glosse Hic dicit glossa Hebraica c. Here sayth the Hebrue glosse if the priest shall say vnto thee that thy right hande is thy left hande or thy left hande is thy right hande this saying must be vpholden which thing is manifest false For the sentence of no maner of man of what authoritie so euer he be is to be vpholden if it conteyne a manifest falsehoode or errour And this appeareth by this which is set before in the text They shall iudge vnto thee the truth of Iudgement and afterward is set vnder And they shall teach thee according to his lawe whereby it appeareth that if the Priestes speake that which is false or swarue from the law of God they are not to be heard Thus sayth Lyra in confuting the Hebrue glosars of their hye Priests that sayde they could not erre and therefore what soeuer they taught must be beléeued And do not your Papistes say the same of the Pope and your selfe holde the same of your Priestes expositions that theirs alwayes muste be taken for the true sense else wherto bring ye out this conclusion In doubtfull cases of bloud and ciuill actions of strife the highe Priest and the chiefe Iudge muste determine a finall sentence Ergo Princes muste receiue not the letter of the scripture but suche sense as the Popish priestes and the Pope shall determine for the true sense in all controuersies of religion For this is the ful drift of your reason though ye dare not for shame speake so playne But this argument the more it is wayed wayeth lyke a fether in the winde and therefore ye turne the conclusion into generall words and say Ergo Princes and others muste receiue at the Priestes hands not onely the bare letter that killeth but the true and sincere meaning therof withall Which coÌ„clusion is not in controuersie but on both parts graunted they oughtso to do the Priests to deliuer to their Princes and others the worde of God and the true sense therof and the Prince and others oughte so to receiue of them the same word of God and the true sense thereof and not the priests owne deuises and expositions But since that none haue euer done more coÌ„trarie to this rule sythe it was first giuen by Moyses then haue the Popishe priestes had not Christian princes great néede to beware of Popishe Priests gloses and follow the councell of Lyra in reiecting them as other good Princes haue done to displace those false glosing priestes and place faythfull disyensers of Gods mysteries in their roomes and ouersée that their people be not deceiued in receiuing at the priests handes quid pro quo And for this cause the priest shoulde deliuer to his prince a perfect copy of the law which M. St. wickedly termeth the bare letter that killeth and thereto wresteth S. Paule wresteth this sentence of the iudiciall law among the Iewes for their time in the foresaide ciuill controuersies to be a simple rule for all christian common weales in all ecclesiastical causes excluding quite al iudgement from the prince including it in his Pope Priests alone iumbling the Prince and the people togither vnder the priests absolute determination
means or instrument in this cause of Salomon where your Pope by his figure as you say the high priest is so nere touched with an example of depriuation There contrary to that ye tolde vs before the highe Priest him selfe must be the represser and the Prince but the meane or instrument And thus it séemeth ye care not what ye say for you or agaynst you so ye maye shift of the matter in one place though in another ye speake quite contrary And thinking to beare your selfe out with your masters authoritie yée make your master partaker of your shame besides the shame that they haue for their shamefull shiftes receyued alreadie at the Bishop of Sar. and master Nowels hands But here thinking to be euen with master Nowell for confuting this vnlike similitude vsed also as newe freshe stuffe by master Dorman But Lord sayth he howe master Nowell here besturreth him selfe Nowe when the Reader should looke howe here master Stapleton would besturre him selfe to bring ought against master Nowell he dare alleage nothing it was but a copie of his countenance He fumeth and he fretteth with master Dorman sayth he who shall coole him well ynough I doubt not In the meane while I will aske master Horne and master Nowell to one question Yea forsooth master Stapleton I like your witte nowe better than before demaunde what you will but chalenge not the combat so fast as ye did ere while cumber not your selfe with more aduersaryes than ye néede ye shall finde more ease in the ende Go to therefore and propounde your question Master Horne sayth say you a little before that Iosue sacrificed burnt sacrifices and burnt offrings that king Dauid sacrificed burnt and peace offrings that Salomon offred sacrifices VVere trow ye Iosue Dauid and Salomon priests If so then how bring you their ensamples to proue any thing for Kings and Queenes that are no Priestes If not then this phrase is verefied in that they caused the Priestes to whome the matter pertayned to offer sacrifices And so whereas M. Horne sayth of Iosue that he sacrificed burnt sacrifices which is agreeable to the latine obtulit holocausta master Nowell sayth he commaunded sacrifice to be offred Thus farre your question to the Bishop and your dilemma thereon To the question I aunswere that neither Iosue Dauid nor Salomon were priestes if not say you then by your owne words and master Nowels this phrase is verefied that they caused the priests to offer sacrifices I graunt ye master Stapleton and it was graunted to you many tymes before by the Bishop what inferre ye herevppon And why then I pray you M. Nowell say you turning your speche to him may not this phrase also be taken after the said sorte that Salomon deposed Abiathar in procuring him by some ordinarie way to be deposed for his treason as master Cranmer might haue bin though he were deposed and burnt for his heresie Here is a matter farre fette or euer the inconuenience breake out In the ende thanks be to God this is the worst conclusion and why may not this phrase also of deposing be taken after the said sorte of sacrificing I aunswere that to reason from may to must either must or may be but a mustie reason I had thoughte this déepe question and this lustie dilemma vppon it woulde haue concluded with a necessitie this phrase of deposition muste be so resolued as the other of sacrifice and commeth it now in like a poore hedgecréeper with a perchaunce that it maye bée so resolued parturiunt montes nascitur ridiculus mus the mountaynes trauaile out there péepes a mouse But nowe since ye conclude no furder but that it may be so what if one would doubte of your may bird and like a good simple plaine dealing man wold bluntly say to your may Perawnter yea sir perawnter nay sir and bid ye reason more substantially than to stand on a peraduenture that it may be so But since ye will nedes know why the one phrase may not be vnderstoode like the other I will not only shew you why they may not but also why they must not The phrases on the one parte of Iosues Dauids and Salomons sacrifices mighte not be done personally by them bycause they were no priests but it must haue bin done by the priests bicause it was the priests especiall office appointed of God But in this other case of deposition Salomon not only might either commaund or execute personally or by his deputie but of dutie ought to haue deposed that naughtie high priest bicause on the one parte it was no especiall or any part at all of the priestes office appointed by God to depose their high prest nor the inferiors cold depose their primate on the other parte only the king could do it did it and ought to do it bicause it appertayâ—…ed to his royall estate and was appointed by God thereto And thus ye sée the phrases are not alike neither may nor must be resolued the one by the other as ye say in your coÌ„clusion SalomoÌ„ deposed Abiathar in procuring him by some ordinarie waye to be deposed for his treason What some ordinarie way should this be that ye tell vs thus generally he mighte procure If it were for the lower to depose the higher it was no ordinarie way If it were by the other priests it was by the lower If it were by some Prophete it was extraordinarie and yet ye pull downe the Prophetes and all vnder the priests especially vnder the high priest If it were by the princes procurement ye say the prince is also inferior durst any inferior at an other inferiors commaundement or procuring attempte to depose their superiour yea their supreme your Pope wold giue ye little thankes and he hard ye harpe on that string master Stapleton By what ordinarie way then shuld it be done who shoulde haue done it who shoulde haue procured it Can ye deuise any excepte the ordinary power that God gaue the Prince had byn the procurer doer and all thereof Nowe that ye haue put foorthe youre question made youre dilemma lapte vp youre conclusion and nothing still serueth your turne but more againste you shall I be so â—…old as to demand of you agayne euen your owne questioÌ„ and adde another dilemma of your owne wordes thereto VVere trow ye Iosue Dauid and Salomon priests If so then howe say ye here this phrase they sacrificed is verefied in that they caused the priests to whom the matter perteyned to offer sacrifices And why vse ye all the shiftes ye can to abase their doinges If no Whie sayde ye then thrée leaues before of Iosue If yee will haue your examples to proue confirme then as Iosue circumcided so let the prince baptise and as Iosue sacrificed vpon an aultar so let the prince in cope and surplesse celebrate your holy communion Did Iosue circumcise and sacrifice personally him selfe and was no priest I speake
the marke many tymes than from it But séeing ye deale so vneuenly with the Bishops other shottes for all your bellowing short shorte it hittes not the Butte it commes not home ye giue all standers by suspition of falâ—…e ayme in this shotte and therefore let vs measure it once againe The deposing of Abiathar saye you doth not employ that Salomon was chiefe ruler in all ecclesiasticall causes I pray you who was then chiefe ruler in all ecclesiasticall causes Abiather say you And wherefore he bicause he was the highest Priest or Byshoppe therefore the chiefe rule of them was in him Doth it not then followe if he depose him in whome is all the rule that all this rule is yet restrayned vnder hys higher rule that deposeth him For the more manâ—…fest ensample of our time If I aske in whom the chiefe rule of all ecclesiastical causes is now in the Pope say you wherfore say I bâ—…cause say you he is the hiest Priest or Bishop and therefore he hath the â—…yest rule of all ecclesiasticall causes Well say I if the Emperouâ—… nowe woulde go aboute to cite the Pope to iudge him and tell him he is the childe of death for not acknowledging his olde obedience to him and so deposing hym bydde him departe and meddle no more with that Byshoprike the Emperour can not doe this say you for then the Pope in all ecclesiasticall causes shoulde be the Emperours inferiour if the Emperour might depose 〈◊〉 bicause when he is deposed by the Emperour from all his chiefe rule all his chiefe rule is translated from him and so were hée vnder the Emperour and all his chiefe rule at the Emperours disposition to giue to another But thys saye you were suche a fowle inconuenience as the lyke can not bée And therefore the Emperour can not depose the Pope but the Pope the Emperour This is your common reasoning Wherein doe ye not sée howe the graunting of the deposition of the chiefe Priest inferreth a hyer rule and authoritie in the deposer ouer the deposed in euerie prerogatiue that the partie deposed had before he was deposed But then will ye say the Prince that deposed the highest Priest may not he doe all those matters that the priest might haue done if hée bée the chiefe ruler of them It is one thing master Stapleton to be the chiefe ruler in and ouer all those ecclesiasticall causes that the partie deposed myghte haue done and to bée the chiefe doer or executioner of them For example the Prince maketh an Admirall or chiefe ruler ouer hys Seas a President or Deputie ouer hys Marches a chiefe Iustice or Chauncellour ouer hys lawes c. These Officers agayne the king deposeth the deposition of them is an argument that in all those thinges the King is the chiefe ruler And although the King can not doe anye of those thinges that belong to their Offices yet is that no impayring of hys chiefe rule ouer them and all thinges in theyr offices And therefore hée transferreth the doing to them that better can or wyll doe those offices And so likewyse in the chiefe office of priesthood admitting there were such an one now in all ecclesiasticall causes though the prince can not do all those ecclesiasticall actioÌ„s nor any one of them yet grant the prince that he may depose that chiefe priest to whome the doing of them appertaineth ye graunt with all that he is the chiefe ruler of all those ecclesiasticall things so farre forth as the rule of ouersight gouernance and directing stretcheth vnto which is aboue the ministeriall executing Nowe as youre selfe haue confessed the prince is the causer and the prieste the executor and doer which likewise his name importeth and therefore is called minister whiche name though the prince haue also yet he hath it as your selfe haue likewise confessed in a higher respecte bicause he is Gods especiall minister to ouersée directe dispose and depose all other ministers And thus graunting the ensample euen but of this one facte of Salomon for our princes to followe to depose in their realmes any one whatsoeuer highest or lowest priest it not only hitteth home the butte yea and the pricke to set vp by master FeckeÌ„ham but this one facte of Salomon and the like of christian princes now employeth a chiefe rule of ouer sight and direction though not of executing in al ecclesiasticall causes besides whatsoeuer appertayneth to the parties office that may be so deposed as Abiathar was by Salomon The vntruth that ye note in the end of this ensample is orderly aunswered in your beadrolle The. 15. Diuision TThe Bishop in this diuision alleadging the example of king Iosaphat chiefly of two visitatioÌ„s set forth by him 2. Paral. 17. and. 19. how he reformed religion through out all his dominions appointed preachers and setters foorth of Gods lawe and Iudges in all causes aswell ecclesiasticall as temporal coÌ„cludeth his supreme gouernment herevpon To this Master Stap. counterblasâ—…eth As M. Doctour Harding and M. Dorman haue written so say I that yee are they which frequent priuate hilles aulters and darke groues that the scripture speaketh of VVherein you haue set vp your Idols that is your abhominable heresies In that ye say master Stapleton As they say so say I ye shewe howe well ye haue learned your lessons thus one of another to say what soeuer your master sayd before you and take your bare so saying for proufe good inough But as ye fondly flatter your selues with your owne sayings so more fondly ye obtrude them as principles to your aduersaries that will by and by bid ye either proue them or else will they still estéeme them as they are for mere lying sayings of a knot of thrée false confederates the master his two schollers to outface delude the manifest truth withal And if these your masters sayings and yours hap to become wordes of course then beware you on whose side they are lykest to light that haue mainteyned so open Idolatrie and diuerse false worships of God that he did neuer institute After this master Stapleton drawing néerer to the matter admitâ—…eth this example of King Iosaphat VVee also confesse sayeth he that there is nothing written in the holye Scripture of Iosaphat touching his care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters but that godly Princes may at this day do the same doing it in such sort as Iosaphat did Holde ye here master Stapleton and we aske no more of you Ye haue here frankly confessed two things First the care and diligence that Iosaphat had aboute the directing ecclesiasticall matters Which care and diligence was the Bishoppes first proposition nowe twise alreadie graunted by you what followed thereon ye haue heard before alreadie Secondly that godly Princes may at this day doe the same doyng it in such sort as Iosaphat did Herevpon I conclude this argument As Iosaphat did in directing ecclesiasticall matters so doth the Queenes maiestie
and therfore good reason that yours giue place to his senior the popish later base born religion of your Romish church to thâ—… first most auncient true religion of that Alpha Omega Iesus Christ himself Master Stap. hauing now set vp these two false markes like to one being out of his way that after he is once ouer his shooes in the myre careth not howe he benâ—…yre himselfe but running deeper through thicke and thinne cryeth this is the way to haue other to followe him so rusheth on master Stapleton still further from the issue and yet taketh euerye thing in his way to bée hys marke and directorie Setting vp the perticuler factes of those Princes that chalenge and take vppon them this supreme gouernement that the selfe same factes must be founde in the ensamples of the olde testament or else hée sayth the Bishop strayeth from the marke VVhat euidence haue ye brought forth sayth he to shew that in the olde lawe anye King exacted of the Clergie In verbo Sacerdotiâ—… that they shoulde make none Ecclesiasticall lawe without his consent as King Henrie did of the clergie of Englande Is this the marke master Stap. betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham to proue in their supreme gouerments euerye selfe same perticuler fact yea the circumstances about or concerning the fact to be all one in them that clayme this gouernment nowe and those that claymed it then since bothe the states the times yea all the ceremonies of religion of the Iewes then and ours nowe are nothing like and trow ye then the princes perticuler doings must be like and euen the same and euidence must be giuen out of the one for euery fact of the other or else their supreme authorities be not alike The issue betweene them is not so straight laced but requireth onely any such gouernment some such gouernment yea he it al suche gouernment to I meane not all suche actions in the gouernment but the supreme directing gouernance authoritie or powre are proued both alike in either princes estate so well ouer eccl. persons in all their functions then or now as ouer the temporall in theirs For by this rule wheras that most famous prince king Henry the eight did sweare also to his obedience all his temporall subiects in ciuill causes as other Princes likewise haue done and do it would be harde to alleâ—…ge an euidence thereof out of the old Testament and yet their supreme gouernments therin were not therefore vnlike As for the ministring of the othe is but a circumstance to confirme the matter and not the matter itselfe And if king Henry were by the obstinate and craftie malice of his popishe clergiâ—… then constrayned for his more assurance to take an othe or promise of them on the honestie of their priesthoode which God wâ—…t was but a small holde as it went then in the moste of them and that no king of those ancient yeres mentioned in the olde testament béeing not moued by the wickednesse or mistrust of his clergy tooke the like othe or promise of their priestes honestie or fayth of their priesthoodâ—… then what is this to or from the matter why their supreme authorities shoulde not be alike in bothe Do not you also say for your side that the highe Priest had suche supreme gouernment then as your Pope â—…othe chalenge now ouâ—…r all eccl. causes â—…nd dothe â—…ot your Pope nowe exacte of all his clergie in verbo â—…acerdotij by the worde of their priesthoode that they shall make no eccl. law without his consent May we not then returne your owne words on your selfe VVhat euidence can you bring foorth to shew that in the olde lawe any highe Priest exacted this of the clergie vnder him And if ye can not as ye can not dothe not then this your wyle reason and newe marke ouerturne the false clayme that your Pope claymeth of such supreme gouernment now as the high Priest had then But his clayme is false his gouernment nothing like For the high priest then tooke not vpon him to make eccl. lawes as doth now your Pope but only obserued such eccl. lawes as God had made to his hande till time of the Pharisies corruption who not content with Gods lawes had deuised besides many fond lawes of their own inuentions when there wanted amoÌ„g them this kingly authoritie To the which so long as it continued the high priest al other obeyed receyuing and obseruing such eccl. constitutions as their godly princes made vnto them So did Aaron first receiue the eccl. coÌ„stitutions of Moses So after him did alâ—…re residue admit the eccl. constitutions of Dauid the rest of the foresaid princes their priests made none of theÌ„ selues without the Princes consent But the princes ordâ—…ined diuers eccl. orders partly with the aduise and consent partly without yea agaynst the wil coÌ„sent of their clergy now then and yet those godly princes exacted of them euen as they were true priests as the stories of Iosaphat and Ezechias mention how they charged their priests euen in that they were the Lords priests which is all one with that you alleage in verbo sacerdotij that they should do suche things as they appoynted them to do And is not this good and authenticall euidence for king Henries doings but that the priests appoynted any suche ordinance without their princes consents will be harde for you to bring the like or any â—…uidence at all for your Popes exacting And if as ye conclude herevpon this exacting to make no eccl. law without his consent be to make the ciuil magistrate the supreme iudge for the final determinatioÌ„ of causes ecclesiasticall then your Pope hauing no such euidence for him by this your marke is no supreme iudge for suche finall determination but it â—…latly proueth agaynst you that the Princes should be the supreme iudges therein And if the exacting of consent importe suche supreme authoritie as héere ye confesse then whereas not onely these ancient kings but also the ancient christian Emperors in the confirming of your Pope exacted that none shoulde be a lawfull Pope to whome they gaue not their consent it argueth that those Emperours were the supreme Iudges for the finall determination of the Popes ecclesiasticall election Which afterwarde when ye come to the handling therof ye renie affirming that although his consent was necessarie to be required yet it argued no suche supreme iudgement in the matter And thus you care not may ye for the time shuffle out an answere howe falsly or how contrary ye counterblast your false The nexte marke is yet further wyde from the issue and more fonde than any of the other for abandoning his Pope and generall Councels VVhat can ye bring foorthe sayth he out of the olde Testament to aide and relieue your doings who haue abandoned not onely the Pope but generall Councels also and that by playne acte of Parliament And
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
or not receiue any generall Councell And yet might the Pope reforme vs well inoughe for any thing before rehearsed Now surely M. St. and for any thing heere rehearsed by you the matter is well holpe vp and full clerkly haue ye answered your owne obiection â–ª For first where ye say If any generall Councell be made to reforme our misbeleefe Your obiection hangeth altogither on your accustomed presupposall threaping this kindnesse on vs that hauing reâ—…ected your Pope we must néedes be in misbelefe and so reason forward à petitione princâ—… that we muste be reformed therin Where otherwise denying first this your presupposall vrging the contrary that the misbeléefe were on your party in admitting the popes claime al other his errors then must ye begin a little higher to proue vs in misbeléefe or else ye caÌ„ go no further the fat is in the fire al your trim deuised incoÌ„uenience agaynst this clause of the act is dasht But bicause it were great pitie that so good an heades inuention in forecasting so great a peril should not be herd throughout let vs winke at your misbeleefe in déeming misbeleefe in vs and suffer you to tel on your tale misbeleuing now with you that we are in misbeleefe what followeth VVe must be reformed say you And good reason say I. But tell on If any general CouÌ„cel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we will not receiue it who shal force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue or not receiue any general Councell Your argument M. St. after your woÌ„ted maner staÌ„deth al on ifs If we be in misbeléefe we must be reformed if a general CouÌ„cel be made to reforme vs we ought to receiue it if we wil not receiue it who shal force vs if we wil not be forced we be at libertie if we be at libertie we may reiect it if we reiect it we continue in misbeléefe if we continue in misbeleefe we shall be condemned One if as is aforesayd for an Oliuer to his Rouland set against his first if â—…f we be not in misbeleefe had turned off al the other ifs But hauing admitted we were in misbeléefe is there none other remedie M. St. but néedes a generall Councel must be called for vs are we so obstinate or is there none other meanes yes thankes be to God where we haue bene in déede in misbeléefe we haue bene reformed by our godly Princes and that without a generall Councell Which I speake not to the disprayse or dispising of generall Councels although when they were better kepte than they be nowe seldome they haue had good sequele as the auncient fathers complayne on them but I speake agaynst the Popishe Councels nothing lesse than generall nowe and nothing lesse than reforming any errours but violently so maynteining them that true generall Councels suche as in the olde tyme reformed errours can not nowe be summoned And the Pope feareth hindreth and stoppeth by all his practises nothing more than a very frée and generall Councell suche as the foure first generall Councels were Of which sorte admitting there wer any called now admitting also we were in arror since that Councell would by the onely worde of God for so did the auncient generall Councels conuince our errour we mighte well be reformed thereby euen by these clauses that ye alleage For suche a Councell where our Prelates them selues â–ª aswell as any other of Christendome mighte fréely debate the matter were no forayne power to vs or to any other Realme in Christendome since euery Christian Realme shoulde haue his frée powre and libertie therein alike to proue or improue by the worde of god And the clause of the statute abandoneth not but admitteth and receiueth all such Councels either past or to come that shall with suche fréedome by Gods worde conuince vs of any heresie or error that we misbeléeue vpon To say therefore that by these clauses of the Acte we set our selues at libertie to reiect simply all generall Councels it is but the libertie of your slaunderous tong disposed to bestowe a liberall lye vpon vs No M. Stap. we exempte not our selues from the authoritie and determination of any suche general Councels â–ª But as we are ready to admit them with all Christian reuerence so we hartily pray to God once to sende suche an one as by the infallible worde of God might frankly and truely determine whether our Princes we or your Pope and you mainteine these heresies errors and misbeléefe that ye say we do The drift of your argument is this there must be one to force vs wherby ye meane your Pope Wherein ye rightly conclude in déede for his parte that he is a forcer that is to speake playne English a violent Tyrant perforce to extorte of men to yéelde to his partiall Councels But euen for this cause also we worthily reiecte hym and his force with his enforced conuenticles as no generall or frée Councels nor orderly called wherwith he hath by the fourme of olde Councels no more to doe than other Bishops haue But now where ye say yet might the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Whether the Pope mighte reforme vs or no or howe he might do it by any his owne authoritie ouer vs or otherwise is not yet M. Stapl. séene But what the Pope hath done is manyfest How he hath not reformed but deformed not only vs heretofore and other places but euen his owne Court and him selfe also Let him first reforme him selfe his Cardinals his whores his Stewes his simonie his ambition his pride his tyrannie with other his innumerable abhominations in life and doctrine who by his clayme from Christ and Peter should be an ensample and paterne of all godly reformation and theÌ„ let him moue the question how we may be reformed This were a more formall waye for him and for you also M. Stap. sithe you will néedes bée writing to write to him hereof ment ye to haue your countrey reformed in déede not deformed by him And wheÌ„ he hath reformed himself in al these things theÌ„ write you ouer to your countreymen vnreformed that the Pope might reforme vs well inough for otherwise we can not but thinke he woulde reforme vs ill inough that can not or will not once reforme him selfe But I think I set ye to long a day to write ouer to vs of his reformation Ye might tary M. Sta. til the Kalends of Gréece or euer ye sée the Kalotes of Rome reformed by him or any vice or error besides Well say you and yet he might reforme vs wel inough for any thing before rehearsed Dâ—… ye not sée M. Stap. how fondly ye haue answered al your foâ—…de warbling for if he might still reforme vs for all those clauses rehearsed why rehearsed ye them since they were not agaynst him why haue ye made suche a doe agaynst them that by them we abandon him his
ecclesiastical liuings titles were any Byshop or any member of Christs Church or no euen by your ecclesiastical Canons of which one beginneth NoÌ„ omneâ—… episcopi sunt episcopi al Byshops are not Bishops c. 2. Q 7. Likewise Bernard the Canonist saith Spiritualis gladius ex leui causa non tantum per alios c. the spirituall Sworde mouing and nourishing warres of a light cause not only by other but also by it selfe contrary to right is become a souldiers Sword. Erasmus saith the Popes them selues are rather the successors of such as Iulius Caesar of Alexander Xerxes Croesus and of mightie theeues than the Apostles successors And that there are none so pernicious enemies to the Churche as the wicked Popes that suffer in silence Christe to growe out of knowledge and tie him to gainefull lawes and deflowre him with wrested interpretations and murder him with their pestilent life Call ye these spirituall byshops or rather as Christ said théeues and robbers painted sepulchers rauening wolues or as he called Iudas the Deuill him selfe For why beeing thus degenerate from the office of a Bishop should they haue the name of bishops as their owne law saith Si repriueris nec nomeÌ„ habere mereris It thou want the thing â–ª thou deseruest not the name And as Christe him selfe doth say If the salte haue lost his saltnesse what shal be seasoned therwith it is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out to be troden downe of men These are the spirituall Pastors of the popish Church yeathe Popes them selues being worsse than lay men and yet will be Lordes of all ecclesiasticall liuings lay mens liuings too But I will reserue this matter till ye be disposed to commune furder thereon for they touch néerer the ouerthrows of your Popes claime more decipher the hauiour of his Clergie than they come néere the issue of the Princes gouernment The sixte marke that ye set vp is this VVhat good induction can ye bring from the doings of the Kinges of the old lawe to iustifie that Princes now may make Bishops by letters Patents and that for such and so long time as should please them as either for terme of yeres monethes weekes or dayes What an impudent and too too shamefull a sclaunderer you may be marked to be appeareth by this marke M. St. If Bishops haue their letters patents from the Prince for their Bishoprike had they them not also froÌ„ Princes euen in the most popishe time but that they are made for suche termes as ye write you wilfully belie your Soueraigne The Prince in deede at all times if they do not their dutie and so shal be thought vnworthie may orderly remoue inhibite or punish them And of this the Bishop hath alleaged good proofe in the old Testament And yet if there were no proofe of it there what matter can ye make thereon that your Popes did not practise who licenced deposed restrayned limited and that for such and so long time as should please them As Florobellus saithe of the Pope Item facere potest Praelatum ad tempus He can also make a Prelate for a time And can ye finde such bulles of leade from the doings of the high Priest of the olde lawe If ye can not this marke ouerturnes your Popes supremacie more than it commeth any thing nere the Quéenes The Seuenth marke VVhat good motiue can ye gather by their regiment that they did visit Bishops and Priestes and by their lawes restrayned them to excercise any iurisdiction ouer their flockes to visit their slockes to reforme them to order or correct them without their especiall authoritie and commission thereunto yea to restrayne them by an inhibition from preaching which yee confesâ—…e to be the peculiar function of the Clergie exempted from all superioritie of the Prince This marke hath two partes For the former so farre as ye say true the Bishop hath gathered good motiues by their regiment that they did visite Bishops and Priestes and by their lawes restrained them to exercise any iurisdiction ouer their flockes to visit their flockes to refourme to order and correct them without their especiall commission therevnto for what else was their ordeyning and allowing them their commaunding ordering appointing and directing them Except ye meane hereby for ye spâ—…ake it very subtlely that the Bishops could do none of those functions that belonged to their office after they were appointed therto by the Prince but that for euery thing they must haue a speciall commission and than it is a captiouse sclaunder the Prince doth not so But what belongeth to the Prince herein and what to the Bishop in either of their Iurisdictions is to be considered in the fourth booke Sauing that still ye will augmeÌ„t your counterblast by the way of preuention Your other parte of this marke is a manifest sclaunder The Prince restrayneth no Bishop nor preacher with any simple inhibition from his office of preaching but Secundum quid inhibiting your popish seducers from preaching their traditions and erroneous doctrines such false Prophetes as Christ biddeth vs beware of If ye would preach the onely truthe ye might haue good leaue to preache it Now to stoppe the mouthes of false Idolatrouse Priestes the Bishop in these examples hath brought good proofe hereof no preaching is simplie forbidden but Papistes sectaries and other of noughtie or suspected life or doctrine and therefore where in the margine ye biddâ—… your reader Note here is nothing for him to note but your notorieâ—…se lie and your notable argument that ye make thereon Preaching is the peculiar function of the Clergie exempted from the Prince Ergo The Prince hath not authoritie to restrayne a noughtie preacher nor to inhibite him from preaching false doctrine Proue your argument a little better M. Stapleton and then bidde vs note it els is there litle to note in it but much to note in you For your Eight marke say you VVhat thinke ye that ye can persuade vs also that Bishops and Priestes payed their first fruites and tenthes to their Princes yea and that both in one yeare as they did for a while in Kinge Henries dayes Verely Ioseph would not suffer the very heathen Priests which onely had the bare names of Priests to paie either tythes or fines to Pharao their Prince yea rather he founde them in time of famine vppon the common store This marke Master Stapleten of paying first fruites and tenthes to the Prince is bothe wide from the Bishops marke and mere frinolouse For supposing they payde none yet this supreme gouernement still remayned entiere and whole to the Prince nor the paying it to the Prince maketh him supreme gouernour any whitte the more It was an order taken ye know in the time of your Popes superstition and that not long since neither vnder pretence of helping the Church in hir warres against the Saracens but in very déede
ye can not denie it Would God yet ye could blushe and be at the least ashamed of it But why wishe I shame in so shamelesse maiden Priestes if ye can be maydens that neither haue maidenhed nor shamefastnesse in you are ye not those Locustes that S. Iohn saith should come out of the bottomlesse pitte hauing on their heads as it were crownes like vnto golde and their faces were as it had bene the faces of men and they had heare as the heares of women that is to say a shew and countenance of maydenly virginitie hauing notwithstanding tayles like Scorpions Surely Eneas Siluius your Pope called Pius 2. did not for nought so commonly vse this sentence that where the Fathers not without great consideration at the first forbad Priests to marry and to keepe them selues single they should now not without a greater cause suffer them to marrie In the which wordes he not onely noteth the popish Priestes abominations but also that this forbidding of marriage is not of any commaundement of Christ but merely of mens prohibition but such prohibition as were much better reuoked euen by the best learned Popes opinion as the writers of his life do note that euer satte in that sâ—…ate Of the same iudgement was Erasmus who seing the abhominable life of the popish Priests abosing the simple vnder the nâ—…e of virginitie â–ª Muâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª c. Many causes faith he â—…o persuade a change of the lawe of single life in ecclesiasticall persons And when your Sorbonistes of Paris stamped hereat and wrote against him boasting as you de of the excellencie of virginitie shining in holines Erasmus answered them Qui tractâ—…nt c. They that lay those that medle with the diuine mysteries and the administration of the heauenly worde chastitie doth most become them they say true and godly and I allow their iudgement very well but they do consider what the thing it selfe requireth I consider â–ª what the imbeâ—…ilitie of men requireth Many discommodities I graunt might follow if wiues were permitted vnto Priestes but such discommodities as either the Church or the carefulnesse of Princes might easilie with certaine constitutions remedie But now in so corrupt manners of men their most silthie single life hath farre more greuous discommodities Would to God so many as are priests would turne their minde to cleannesse Thus saide Erasmus of your birginly Priesthood not onely with whâ—… but euen with S. Paule we say it is better marry than to liâ—…e in such wicked burnings and viciouse liuing Yea although the partie had neuer so much vowed virginitie before yet if he could not keepe his vowe but burne in lust it were farre better for him to marry and his mariage as S. Angustine saith is perfect matrimonie And not whoredome as you your Papistes slaunderously do terine it â–ª But no meruaile if ye slauÌ„der our Matrimonie that not onely liue your selues in such wicked demeanour he such stalions as the Prophete cried out of that neighed after their neighbours wines rather than with the honest care of Matrimonie ye would haue any of your own since as ye defiled others â—…eddes so ye accoumpt and write of all matrimonie as a polluted state For so saith Durandus and so ye say all Matrimonium tollis puritatem maculat corpus Matrimony taketh away cleannesse and deâ—…ileth the bodie Whereas the Scripture calleth it Cubile impollutum An vndefiled bedde and an honorable estate And yet for simple fornication it is a common question moued among you whether it be a mortall sinne or no. So fauourable ye are to wickednesse and so harde to Matrimonie To liue in Matrimonie is with Papistes to liue after the â—…eash Which what is it els with S. Paule but to liue in sinne to offende God to deserue death Sâ—… secundam carnem vixeritâ—… moriemini If ye liue after the flesh ye shall die Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non pofsunt They that are in the flesh can not please God. And therefore they reason that Priests may not liue in Matrimonie But to sorsweare Matrimonie to liue a single life how soeuer he liue it Si non caste 〈◊〉 cauâ—…e If not chastely yet closely This with Papistes is virginitie this is an excellent life this at Gods handes deserues a speciall rewarde This hypocrisie of fained virginitie this defacing and destling of honorable matrimonie bicause we crie out vpon we are 〈◊〉 Bicause we reprehends your forced single life that compelleth Priestes not to marrie whether they will or no oâ—… whether they haue or no the gifte of virginitie which is not of them selues but a gift and that of God and that a rare gifte as Christ saith and as experience hath proued a most rare gifte among your votaries we are therefore Iouinians Bicause we preferre marriage before such vncleane virginitie as the honorable necessarie and vndefiled meanes to auoide fornication Bicause we say virginitie I meane not Popish virginitie but true virginitie is in it selfe no such vertue as you make it of especiall rewarde but in respect of auoiding some hinderances as also Matrimonie in respects of auoyding greater cuils therefore we are Iouinians and make them both alike But what say we herein that euen your Schoolemen say not â–ª Durandus aforesatde vppon this selfe same question whether virginitie be to be preferred before matrimonie Aliquod est 〈◊〉 c. Something is good in it selfe something accidentally or inrespect of another thing that is bicause it remoueth an euill or inconuenient thing After the firste sorte meate is good to the bodie After the seconde forâ—…e medicine is good VVee must say therefore that virginitie is not good after the first sorte but after the seconde which appeareth three wayes First thus to abstaine from that that is conuenient in it selfe and good can not of it selfe be good But by virginitie we abstaine from Matrimonie which of it selfe is good therefore virginitie of it selfe is not good Iâ—… which woordes omitting his contradiction to his owne tale he maketh in it selfe Matrimonie to be better than Uirginitie But what stande I on Durandus when all your Priestes incurring therein worse contradiction make Matrimonie a Sacrament but Uirginitie they make none If therefore we be louinians be not you louinians to yâ—… rather per syncopen be ye not louinians as good virgin maydens as euer Iupiter was But to supplie that wantes in you ye presse vs with S. Hieroms authoritie To whome though â—… might fully answere ye with the learned censureâ—… of Eramus on that S. Hieromes 〈◊〉 against 〈◊〉 yet for your furder satisfiyng your deâ—…â—… will referre ye to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excellent learned father and euen fellow student with S. Hierome one also that had written against 〈◊〉 Whereby ye may sée how farre S. Hierome ouershotte him selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hâ—… 〈◊〉 saith Ruffinus to Hisrom speaking of Iouinian did first
ordinary succession that ye crake of ye haue neyther succession of Bishops nor Bishops at all according to the beginning and the Apostles orders Which as it is now twice alreadie proued so is it easie to see by conference of the Apostles rules and principles of a Bishop with your Popishe Bishops orders quite contrarie thereunto Where therefore ye crake and bragge so often of succession although it be nothing in the person succéeding except it be in the doctrine succeeding also yet euen for the person ye neither can alleage any ordinarie succession but degenerate succession nor ye haue any certaintie of that beginning thereof that ye pretende no not of the Bishop of Romes beginning and succession from Peter whiche not onely examined by the infallible Scripture will so encomber you that ye can neuer make any conuenient answere therevnto but be fast in the same myre that ye say the Donatistes were Tenthly ye say The Donatistes finding fault with Constantine Theodosius and other Catholike princes ranne for succour to Iulianus the renegate and highly commended him and doth not M. Iewell I pray you take for his president against the Popes primacie Constantius the Arrian against Images Philippicus Leo Constantinus and such like detestable Heretikes by generall Councels condemned do not your selfe play the like parte in the Emperour Emanuel as ye call him and in other as we shall hereafter declare By this rule should Hosius Staphilus M. Harding M. Dorman and your selfe also be Donatistes that take argumentes from your aduersaries yea from Heathen men So might ye make S. Paule a Donatiste also Ye had néede therefore make your comparison more aduisedly And thus might ye haue fitte it very well The Donatistes finding faulte with Constantine Theodosius and other Catholike Princes ranne for succour to Iulianus the renegate and highly commended him And doth not M. Stapleton M. Harding and other popish Priestes finding fault with their most Christian and naturall soueraigne Ladie â—…unne ouer to Louaine and to Rome to a foraigne Apostaticall vsurper and highly commende him this had bene a fitter and truer proportioÌ„ M. St. of the twaine And what do you herein that your graunde Captaine the Pope him selfe did not Pope Boniface ran to the cruell and detestable tyrant Phocas that most trayterously had murdred his naturall Emperour and first obtayâ—…d of him this title of Primacie that neuer any godly or lawfull Prince did graunt before this traytour Phocas one vsurper to another vsurper a good beginning of so good a claime Againe did not Pope Gregorie the third stirre vp all Italie to rebell against the Emperour and he and after him Pope Zacharie ran froÌ„ their naturall Prince to the Princes of Fraunce Germanie and Italie highly commending them that mainteyned them selues against their soueraigne Lord and Emperour and after that bereued him of the Empire of Rome also did not Pope Stephan teach the nobles of Fraunce to forsake their liege King and to run to Pepin an vsuper whom you highly commende as one of your chiefest Patrones Did not Pope Leo the fourth run from the true and lawfull Emperour to his Tygerlike vnnaturall mother Irene the vsurper whom he highly commended for maintayning Images and do not you M. St. euen here for the same only cause runne vnto and highly commende hir hir Councell crying out of the lawfull Emperours calling them detestable and condemned Heretikes bicause they abolished the worship of Images but I reserue the examining of these Donatisticall doings and the trayterouse practises of your later Popes to your seuerall counterblastes thereon In the meane season by this it appereth who be more Donatistes we that alleage an example by writing of those Emperours were they as ill or worse than ye call them or your Popes that runne in déede froÌ„ their naturall Princes to detestable murderers and trayterous vsurpers Thuâ—… had ye fitteâ—… your coÌ„parison ye should liuely haue shewed who had bene the very Donatists the Protestants or the Papists Eleuenthly ye say Nowe who are I pray you Donatists for the defacing and ouerthrowing of aultars for villayning the Chrisme and the holy sacrament of the aultar whiche they cast vnto dogges whiche straight wayes by the ordinance of God fell vpon them and being therein Gods ministers made them feele the smart of their impietie It were a tragicall narrâ—…tion to open the great and incredible crueltie that the Donatists vsed towarde the Catholikes especially their horrible rauishment of religious Nunnes And yet were they nothing so outragious as your Hugenotes haue bene of late in Fraunce and the beggerly Guets in Flaunders namely about Tourney First here master Stapleton ye shewe your selfe a Donatist after your first note in corrupting the fathers wordes as though those holy Uirgins were suche Nunnes as your popish Church mainteyned Againe ye corrupt Optatus wordes in telling vs of the sacrament of the aultar as though there haâ—…ged in his time such a God in a Pire ouer the aultare or as though there were then any such altare to make the people conceyue by your tale telling a great antiquitie in your later vpstarted â—…olatrie and superstition And this ye do in seuerall letters as though they were the proper wordes of Optatâ—… wherein ye shew your selfe a Donatist Secondly it is not alike to compare the rooting vp of Idolatrie and abolishing of naughtie superstitious customes which euen your Popes as I haue shewed before allow not to the naughtie doing of the Donatists for the outrages of souldiouâ—… if any such were And put case there were any such as 〈◊〉 doubt to slaunder the Gospell ye aggrauate many lies will make a mountaine of a mole-hill yet me thinâ—… ye shoulâ—… remember that if crueltie be a rule of a Donatist your selues that shewe farre passing crueltie and horrible outrages to the poore Hugenotes and beggerly Guets as ye terme them hauing made them beggers and made as many beggerly Papists to suche is the papists loue to their owne side but chiefly their immortall hatred to the Protestants murthering them by heapes burning sacking tormenting yea euen the Carcases of the deade and sowing salt on the grounde for spite with infinite other vnnaturall and vnspeakable cruelties besides your secrete practises Me thinks this might haue béene remembred also But hem quoth sir Harry harpe no more on that string for then were you Papists double and treble Donatists Although ye were worse than Donatists herein also that so much peruerted altred abused prophaned hypocritically all those things that ye mention And abused with so much filthie abhomination euen those your religious Nunnes that many of your side were ashamed complayned thereon and therefore God hath iustly rooted them out â–ª Twelfthly say you The Donatists sayd of the Catholikes Illâ—… portant multorâ—…m imperatorum saerâ—… Nos sola portamus Euangelia They bring vs many of the Emperours letters we bring them the only Gospels
to content you Io. Langus in his Preface Dedicatorie to Ferdinandus hath these wordes Uirtutes vero Maiestatis â—…uae c. I purpose not here to rehearse otherwyse of your Maiestyes vertues both for that I haue to small habilitie for so great a woorke and better it were not to speake at all of a matter of weight than not to bee able to prosecute it as the worthinesse of it requireth And also for that Nicephorus in hys Preface when hee consecrateth the trauayle of thys Hystorie to Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure of Constantinople for so beeing mooued by coniectures I take him to bee he liuely expresseth as it were in a Glasse the moste of those selfe same vertues Besides this where Nicephorus in the beginning of his Preface Dedicatorie doth call the Emperour to whome he dedicateth his woorke Pricipem omnium Christianissimum atque humanissimum A moste Christian and moste curteous Prince Herevppon Iohn Langus maketh his first marginall note Uidetur is esse Emanuel Paleologus This Prince seemeth to bee Emanuell Paleologus And after that in the same Preface he addeth another note thereof Emanuels nato praedones Turcae Constantinopoli eiecti sunt VVhen Emanuell was borne the Turkishe spoylers were driuen out of Constantinople And againe Imperatoris Emanuelis infantiâ—… The infancie of Emanuell the Emperour Lykewise another Successor eius in Imperio Constantinopolitanâ—… Emanuel filius His successour in the Empire of Constantinople was Emanuell his sonne Another Diuini numinis erga Emanuelem gratia fauor The grace and fauour of the diuine Godheade towardes Emanuell Another Tribâ—…untur Emanueli praecipue Imperatoriae virtutes The chiefe vertues of an Emperour are ascribed to Emanuell Another PalatiuÌ„ Impâ—…riale ib idem ab Emanuele constructum The Emperours Palayce was buylt by Emanuell Another Eam videlicet Constantinopolim per Emanuelem Christiani retinuerunt The Christians helde it that is to say Constantinople by Emanuell And yet another Dedicatur Ecclesiastica hystoria Imperatori Emanueli veluti corona capiti cius imponitur The Ecclesiasticall hystorie is dedicated to the Emperour Emanuell and is set on his head as it were a crowne Nowe master Stapleton might not all these notes vpon the Preface made by Langus a learned Papist moue the Bishoppe to name the Emperour Emanuell Paleologus and cleare the Bishoppe of vnfaythfull dealing and raysing of mystes And if he were deceyued he was deceyued for that he gaue to muche credite to suche famous Papistes as Lazius and Langus the Doctours of the faculties of Sorbone and of Louayne that take vppon them Censoriam potestatem To haue the authoritie of Censors in allowing and approouing the moste of all youre Bookes If therefore ye blame the Bishoppe for this except ye will shewe your selfe ouer partiall ye must needes condemne all these for the same Nowe master Stapleton hauing as he thinketh about this name gotten a great triumphe pretending to driue awaye the myste and cleare the coastes doing nothing him selfe but trampling in the duste and raysing vaine smokes aboute bare names letting the matter alone vnaunswered the more to dimme the Readers eyes telleth vs howe this Andronicus the elder sonne to Michaell after hys fathers death summoned a Councell of the Gretians wherein hee and they anulled and reuoked that hys Father had done at the Councell at Lions namelye concerning the proceeding of the holy Ghoste and for the whiche Nicephorus Maister Hornes Authour beeing also carryed awaye wyth the common errour as with an huge raging tempest dothe so highly aduaunce this Andronicus And so withall ye see vppon howe good a man and vpon howe good a cause master Horne hath buylded his newe supremacie to plucke downe the Popes olde supremacie For the infringing whereof the wicked working of wretched Heretikes is with him here and else where as we shall in place conuenient shew a goodly and a godly President as it is also with maister lewell for to mainteyne the verye same quarrell as I haue at large in my returne agaynst hys fourth article declared What yée haue there declared at large or at briefe Master Stapleton is not our matter nor I haue it to sée and I recke not to looke for I déeme it by this If I iudge amisse GOD forgiue me Onely herein all the worlde maye sée what a iollie bragger ye bée Ye are euer telling vs of youre Forâ—…resle youre Translations your Replies your turnes and returnes besydes thys your Counterblast nothing muste bée forgotten of all your clerkly Pamphletes If yée wante good neighbours ye will not spare to commende them to vs your selfe As for mée I will for this once returne your returne emptie to your selfe and aunswere onelye your presente quarrels The effecte whereof is to deface the Bishops allegation as grounded vppon the doyngs of an Heretike and auouched oute of the sayings of an erronious authour And to this purpose first ye threape vpon the Reader the Prince to haue beene Andromens the elder and not Emanuell And yet for all ye woulde make it so cleare a case ye sée the Doctours doubt as they say and all your owne Doctours and that the chiefe in iudgement Secondly ye woulde make the facte and doings that are commended by Nicephorus in this Emperour to be about the anulling and reuoking of that Michaell had done at the Councell of Lions namely concerning the procéeding of the holy ghost wheras all your Doctors abouesaid name it chiefly to be for expelling of the Turkes and preseruing of the Christians in Constantinople besides his other vertues For the which cause not onely Nicephorus so highlye commendeth him but also Lazius Langus and all your foresayde Sorbonistes and Louanians And yet you to make the Emparor and the matter odious say that it was the denying of the proceeding of the holy ghost for the which Niceph. doth so highly aduaunce this Andronicus Wherein as ye slaunder them both so thirdly doe ye great wrong to Nicephorus to slaunder him with so great an hereste and saye that he was caried away with the common error as with an huge raging tempest But I doubt it will rather séene M. Stapleton your selfe were caried awaye with so huge a raging tempest eyther of the heate of some cholericke passion or some melancholicke enuie so cankered against the Bishop and the truth of his cause that it maketh you freat and rage euen against Nicephorus also For and ye were not caried away in the huge raging tempest of such a sustian fume a man might then be the bolder to pull you by the sléeâ—…e and gently demaunde if ye finde any thing in this Nicephorus wherefore ye shoulde so sore chalenge him of this heresie or wherefore he shoulde so highly commende this Emperour for this heresie I thinke ye woulde be better aduised and mollifie this sharpe chalenge of heresie in Nicephorus Many superstitions and fabulous tales there be found of manye thinges in Nicephorus I graunt but for my owne part I finde not
that any euer noted him of heresie in this point And I thinke my opinion therein to be more true than yours for proofe whereof I will be reported by such witnesses as I thinke you will not except against euen by your Colledge of Diâ—…es in Louaine Who affirme in their censure vpon this authour that Pâ—…a solum religiosa com â—…endat c. Nicephorus coÌ„mendeth only godly and religious things Nicephoâ—… historia ecclesiaâ—…â—…yois mandâ—… c. not only the ecclesiastical historie of faith and religion may be printed but with much and publike profite of the Church This coulde not haue bene true but an euident false lie if that the author as you saye had so highly aduaunced the Emperour for restoring and maintaining of that heresie Moreouer in the verie title of the boke priuileged by the Emperour Ferdinand he is entituled with this Epithete scriptor verè catholicus â–ª a writer Catholike indeede and so likewise by that name of a Catholike writer he is highly commeÌ„ded to the Emperor Ferdinande both by Lazius a catholike and Langus a catholike as you accept the name of catholike who traÌ„slated him out of Greke into Latine at the said Emperors commaundemeÌ„t Who also in plain speach to the Emperor affirmeth Volumen Nicephori de vera synceraque pietate conscriptum esse the volume of Nicephorus is writteÌ„ eueÌ„ of true sincere godlines But what néede we cite all these against you when that herein ye coÌ„troll your self in your fourth boke of this counterblast for although ye there saye he is no Papist nor a Latine but a Grecian infected also with their schisme yet notwithstaÌ„ding ye grauÌ„t he is in al other things catholike thus ye mollifie the matter with the name of scisme dally with Nicephor there which is yet somewhat gentler than to make him an heretike an high aduancer of heresies as here ye do And there yée promised to stande to his arbitrement about you Popes praises why then so storme ye at him here for his iudgement in the Princes praises But still I sée we must beare with you so must al your doctors especially sith ye be here caried awaye in so huge a raging tempest of your furie against the allegations of Nicephorus here cited by the B. And good cause ye had to kick and winch thereat for they rub ye a litle on the gall and therefore you not onely slaunder Nicephorus being the author but fourthly also and wherevpon you chiefly stande most 〈◊〉 ye reuile the Emperour calling his doinges wicked working and his person a wretched heretike whom notwithstanding this your railing not onely Nicephorus commendeth for a most godly Prince but also LaÌ„gus in his owne preface and his other notes to the Preface of Nicephorus giuing him as great a praise saying he was an Emperour flourishing in all vertues and many ornamentes Againe An Emperour begotten by the verye prouidence of God. Againe Godlynesse and religion was from the beginning of his Empire his greatest care And that to him were giuen the chiefest vertues of an Emperour â–ª Againe In this Emperour being absolute almost in all vertues and ornamentes is portrayed apaterne of a most excellent Prince Yea that he was another Noe another Moses Againe This was the Emperours chiefe prayse that he attayned all the whole vertues of the best auncient Princes And that the Emperours godlynesse and religion is commended chiefly among his other vertues Thus doth your catholike LaÌ„gus in his notes vpoÌ„ Nicephor preface set him out coÌ„trary to that you say was a wicked worker and wretched heretike But wherto in the end do you so reuile this emperor forsoth euen to this end by him not only to deface the B. allegation but also to dashe dawne the Princes supreme gouernment as though it consisted altogither or chiefly herevpon For so you make your conclusion of this part saying And thus withall ye see vpon how good amaÌ„ vpon how good a cause M. Horne buildeth his new supremacie to plucke downe the Popes old supremacie As for the newnesse of this supremacie and likewise the oldnesse of your Popes supremacie is nowe M. Stapleton no coÌ„uenient place to discusse it hath partly ben touched before shal God willing be examined more herafter In the mean seasoÌ„ good leaue haue ye to crake of old vpbraid new at your pleasure so long as you bring no new but old rotteÌ„ proues therof though here ye alledge neither new nor old at al you wil neuer I perceiue leaue your old fashioÌ„s ye threap on the B. that he buildeth this supremacy on this emperor No M. St. the B. buildeth on no such grouÌ„ds but on the word of god It is you that build the Popes supremacie on meÌ„s donatioÌ„s the most of your Popish doctrines traditioÌ„s of meÌ„s inueÌ„tioÌ„s The grounde of the Bishops argument as ye haue hearde was out of Gods worde that the Prince is Gods minister only he shewed it out of S. Augustine and Chrysostome and exemplified it by the example of Constantine wherein this ministerie doth chiefly consist With whome sith Nicephorus doth so agrée in the description of a Princes chiefe ministerie were Nicephorus otherwise an heretike or were he not in this he sheweth himselfe none and were it Andronicus or Emanuell and were he an hereticke in that point or were he sounde the Bishop medleth not withall nor groundeth or buildeth vpon him Onely he setteth forth Nicephorê° iudgemeÌ„t either what this Prince was or what he ought to be And proueth the the things which he commeÌ„deth him for whether he deserued such commendation or no let other examine are the principall pointes of a Princes chiefe ministerie And what hath the B. done here that your Catholike Langus doth not commending this Emperor to Ferdinandus likening Ferdinandus vnto him saying of him that either he was Sicut â—…um c. Such another as our historier depainteth him out in his ornaments in the moste part of all vertue to bee worshipped most like your Maiestie or else in the person of him declaring that he ought to be such an one as he described which is the maner of some Philosophers and also of Historiographers composing orations and bookes of great Princes he hath confirmed so many and so great ornamentes of your Maiestie foreseeing as it were euen then in his minde that his worke hereafter being turned into Latine shoulde at length be published vnder that Princes name whom he in Greke had most truly adorned with his prayse If it were lawful thus for your Langus to apply these Emperors prayses to the Emperor Ferdinand may not the Bishop apply them in general as a paterne of all good Princes duties and therfore where ye scoffe at this calling it in scorne a goodly and godly president setting your moâ—…kes aside I maye well aunswere with Langus whatsoeuer the Emperours iudgement or the Emperours life were or the author also of these
commendations these vertues so highly coÌ„mended are both a goodly and godly president for all Princes to set before them Thus much therefore to the former winde of your counterblast Now to the later which after all these long discourses draweth somewhat néerer to the matter in admitting the authour Nicephorus his testimonies and the Emperours doings and answering to the Bishops allegations thereon The effect whereof is to improue all that is alleaged as insufficient to inferre this supremacie And it is quartred into foure partes Firste prâ—…supposing this Prince to be Andronicus all 〈◊〉 doing about to be the reuoking of Michâ—…els yelding to the Pope at the Councell at Lions he 〈◊〉 to proue that not 〈◊〉 but the Priestes though wicked had the chiefe â—…uperioritie Secondly he 〈◊〉 against the gathering and sorting of the Bishops 〈◊〉 Thirdly he entreth into the inualiditie of the allegacions And fourthly here vpon he maketh his triumph and 〈◊〉 thanks for the victorie In the first parcell sayeth M. Stapleton But now M. Horne what if these hereticall doyngs do nothing releeue your cause nor necessarily induce the chiefe superioritie in all causes and perchaunce in no cause Ecclesiasticall concerning the finall discussing and determination of the same verily without any perchaunce it is most plainly and certainely true it doth not For euen in this Schismaticall councell and hereticall fynagog the Bishops played the chiefe parte and they gaue the finall though a wrong and a wicked iudgement VVho also shewed their superioritie though vngodly vppon this mans Father in that they would not suffer him to be enterred Princelike them selues much more worthy to haue bene cast after their decease to the Dogges and Rauens vppon â—… durtie doonghill What those Priests were worthie we haue your worthie iudgement M. Stapleton whereby we perceiue your Priests can erre although they be Massemongers and by your former sayings Reuerent worshippers of Images too But all will not helpe they are adiudged to be cast on a dâ—…rtje doonghill to be deuoured of Dogges and Raues bicause they would not suffer â–ª Michael Paleologus their Emperour who notwithstanding intruded him selfe by violence to be enterred Prince like I pray you M. Stap. be an vpright iudge What then are those Priests much more worthy that would not suffer their liuing Princes to vse their princely authoritie what are those Popes more worthie â–ª that haue not onely not suffred their predecessours to be enâ—…orted Pope like but haue pulled them out of the ground againe and hacked and mangled them What are those prelates worthie that haue caused the Priestes and the people to renounce their obedience to their sworne Princes I thinke ye will not say these should be â–ª call out on durtie doonghils and yet their faulte is as much as the other it is to be feared least they shal be cast out into vtter darkenesse â–ª But ye do a little to much charge the Gréeke Priestes with the whole burden of this crime It was not onely they as Uolaterane saith but it was the whole nation as Baptist Egnatius writeth as is also noted in Laugus his margine Ex qua tuntam â—…nuidiam â–ª c. VVherevppon he gotte so great enuie of the Greeke notion that neither they performed the obsequies of the dead also denied him the place of his Sepulchre But you applie it onely vnto the Priestes that their superioritie might the more appeare For which purpose you direct all your tale to sette foorth their superioritie euen in such as ye call wicked and hereticall doings whereas the Princes claime is not for any such superioritie in wicked doings but onely in Godly and Christian causes Ye driue all the matter to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghosts proceeding and to Andronicus cealing therein against the dealing of his Father In 〈◊〉 thus do the last editions of Nicephorus Printed at Paris 1562. and 1566. whether truely or no is doubtfull to say referre al to Andronicus and euer in the place of Emaâ—…el put Andronicus and for driâ—…ing away of the Turkes put in the anulling of the doings at Lions Councell Which sentence soeuer be the truer either the former which the Bishop followed or the later which you follow yet caÌ„ you not go so round away with the matter but that euen Michael which yéelded to the Pope mangre all his Priestes and made them perforce while he liued to acknowledge the Pope shewed therein a superioritie â—…uer them which I thinke ye will not call a tiranâ—…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gaue it ouer to the Pope And his sonne in doing the contrarie euen in the Councell ye mention sheweth also a supreme dealing therein And that supreme dealing that you most stiffly denie to Princes to wâ—…te the calling of Councels the Patriarch did it not but the Prince 〈◊〉 as your selfe haâ—… confessed before that he after his Fathers death suâ—…moned a Councell of the Grecians And so sayeth Langus in the Margine of the Preface Imperatoriâ—… istius ductu c. By the guydance of this Emperour in the Councell the Easterne Bishops contrarie to the Westerne decreed that the holy Ghost proceeded onely from the Father But not long after by his Nephewe Iohn Paleologus being Emperour in the Synode at Florence holden in the yeere of the Lorde 1439. the Grecians accorded to the determination of the Latines in so much that they professed the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne when they were perswaded that the Latines beleeued God the Father to be the onely cause of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and that they accursed the being of twoo beginnings or two causes in the consubstantiall Trinitie Which sentâ—…nce as it sheweth the 〈◊〉 to be called by the 〈◊〉 â–ª so it sheweth the cause of the Gréekes diâ—…ision 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 in this 〈◊〉 aboute which here and in your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…e make so much a do to haue bene rather of misunderstanding the one of the other than any such 〈◊〉 â–ª as ye here â—…o often charge them â—…aunder Niâ—…phorus reâ—…ite this Prince and afterwardes 〈◊〉 â—…o vs also And withall it sheweth that this controuâ—…rsie was not so much tho matter betweene them as was the reâ—…enting vnto the Popes obedience which the Greeke Church could neuer abide and to say the sooth they of all other had chiefe cause â–ª for the Pope was the chiefe ruine 〈◊〉 their Empirâ—… But to returne to my purpose In this Councell the Prince hath this point of supremacâ—…e that he sumâ—…oned and guided it â–ª which M â–ª Stapleton espying dareth not fully affirme â–ª that thiâ—… doing maketh â—…atly againste the Princes supremacie but he cometh fâ—…intly in with what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 And what if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shalt we 〈◊〉 haue larkes â–ª what 〈◊〉 â—…id â–ª phie on Deuill with his shifting if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou be the 〈◊〉 of God. And what if it do not necessarily enduce the chiefe supeâ—… in all causes
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
holy ghost that ye terme with an vnclean an impure mouth pure religion were in their chiefe citie of Constantinople in the time of Constantinus sonne to Iohn nephew to Andronicus your Emanuels father euen about VVhitfontide at which time the Catholike Church in true and syncere fayth concerning the holye ghost keepeth a solemne festiuall day of the holy ghost sodenlye by the wicked Turkes besieged and shortly after the Citie and the whole Greeke Empire came into the Turkes handes and possession VVherein God seemeth as before to the Iewes so afterwardes to the Grecians as it were with pointing and notifying it with his finger to shew and to notifie vnto all the worlde the cause of the finall destruction aswell of the one as of the other people What is all this to the purpose M. Stapleton what maketh this against the Bishoppes matter or to further yours except to lengthen your tale although it séemeth that your tale is false neyther you agrée with your selfe therein it is false bicause at that time the great Turke besieged and wonne the Empire of Gréece the Grecians had forsaken this heresie yea and that more is acknowledged the Popes supremacie wherein the question lyeth whether in so doing they fell into another or no for after their agréement at Lions councell by Michaell Paleologus and their reuolt agayne vnder Andronicus the elder Iohn the sonne of Emanuell nephewe to Andronicus the yonger whom before ye mentioned came to the councell at Florence that was called in spits of Basill councell and agréed with Pope Eugenius whome Basill Councell had deposed and so continued in agréement with the Pope till in Constantinus reigne brother to this Iohn the Turke besieged and ouercame them And so your tale is false that say they rested in this opinion till their captiuitie Whereas a good while before they had quite forsaken it after they fully vnderstoode the Latines opinion theron which before they did not Secondly ye agrée not with your owne tale for both in your Preface and hereafter in many places ye ascribe the captiuitie of them chiefly to their not acknowledging of the Pope and so doth Uolaterane which is as false as the other For at that time they were fully agréed with him And here as one that had forgotten his former tale you ascribe the chiefe cause of their captiuitie to the heresie against the holy ghost and so make your proportion betwéene the Iewes bondage at Easter and theirs at Whitsontide at what time is celebrated the solemne feast of the holy ghost And thereon ye take vppon you as though ye were of Gods secrete counsayle to tell vs howe God poynted out the matter wyth hys finger But where to is all this so farre fetched about how is it brought into the purpose For M. St. will haue nothing here that is nedelesse and farre from the matter forsooth this must be presupposed that the Grecians are the B â–ª dearlings â–ª and that the Bishop is of the same opinion bicause he alleged Nicephorus as is before said And her vpon he maketh his marginall note a good aduert sement for M. Horne to consider the cause of the destruction of Constantinople Where by this rule he may saye it is a good note for Langus for Lazius for the Sorbonistes of Paris for his owne Doctors and good maisters at Louaine where he professeth himselfe a student in Diuinitie to beware the same for they haue commended Nicephorus to all the worlde and they allowe his doctrine for pure religion in all pointes not excepting this and therforeal the Papists be belike the Grecians dearlings and denie the proceeding of the holye ghost from the father and the sonne so is it a fitter admonition for the Popish catholikes than for the B. or any other Protestant whose faith in this point and all other concerning the holy ghost the Papistes can not blemish And yet by your leaue M. St. the Papistes be not very sounde in all pointes concerning the holy ghost as I shall shewe you further when you require the same and therefore they had more néede of the twayne to beware of this ensample But since M. Stapl. will so faine haue this cause considered of the Grecians captiuitie I graunt him this their errour might worthily be noted a sufficient cause or any oter errour or naughtinesse of life might well deserue the heauy hande of God and the scourge of such a tyrant as the Turke But whatsoeuer they or we to whome God be mercifull at Gods handes doe deserue not entering into Gods iudgement but speaking of men the most likely and chiefest cause of this Empires decay is euen the verye Pope him selfe his ambitious treacherie first spoyled and diuided the Empire into twaine and made all the West part forsake their sworne obedience And hath also so spoyled this part of the Empyre in the west that besides the bare title of the Empire of Rome the Emperour God wote hath little or nothing the Pope in effect hath all And where the Emperor of Rome had wont to be Lorde to the Bishop of Rome and to other Bishops besides The Bishop of Rome is nowe Lorde to the Emperour of Rome and to all other Princes besides and to attaine to his triple diademe ouer all Princes he hath neuer ceased to stirre and moue such garboyles as all Christendome hath lost onely the Pope hath woon therby and the barbarous nations haue ouerrunne all Europe Asia and Affricke No maruayle then if at the length Christian Princes powers being diuided and weakened with continuall warre and chiefly set on or maintained by the Pope especially against the Grecians the Turks at the last haue ouercome the Empire being destitute of forrein ayde and of themselues giuen to wanton effeminatenesse Although thus much I may iustly note they euer well ynough defended and maintained them selues till they acknowledged obedience to the Pope who was the first cause of their ruine Which done they neuer throue after but were in short time besieged cleanâ—… ouercome When they had once giuen their soules captiue to the tirannie of the Pope their bodies not long after became thrall to the slauerie of the Turke Which séemeth rather to be Gods iust plague vnto them wherein to vse your owne wordes as it were with pointing and notifying with his finger he sheweth to all the worlde to beware of these two aduersaries the spirituall enimie the Pope and the bodilie enimie the Turke Thus M. Stapleton your néedlesse admonition toucheth your selfe and your Pope nearer than ye were a wist Neuerthelesse not so content making as though you had as in déede ye haue ouershotte your selfe you pretende to drawe nearer home But what speake I of Greece say you wee neede not to run to so farre yeares or countries the case toucheth vs much nearer the Realme of Boheme and of late yeares of Fraunce and Scotlande the noble Countrie of Germanie with some other that I
the truth in this poynt and in so manie other Where in yée shew your selfe not onely discontented subiectes but in heart verie rebellions nor repining onely with discontented stomackes but with open sayings writings and other seditions attemptes agaynst the obedience ye owe to our gracious Prince and Countrey Ye call hir gracious but God defende hir gracious person from your vngracious practises and from all such Iudas kisses of hollow hearted flattring Papistes For howe vngraclously ye minde hir highnesse and your Countrey all that heare your sugred wordesnowe speaking as though that butter would not melt in your mealy mouth and read your common place withall collected of your most shamefull and notorious slaunders that ye rayse vpon so gracious a prince and your natiue Countrey would meruayle how that dubble tongue of yours coulde speake such contraries But ye are a Merchant for the nonce ye studie Louaine diuinitie that is to say to beare fire in one hand water in another to laugh in ones face and strike him with a dagger to the heart as Ioab did with Abner and Amasa But let vs sée how trimly ye cloke this geare I dare say neuer a Frier in Louaine can play the sinoother hypocrite For besides say you that we ought absolutely to obey God more than man and preferre the truth which our sauiour him selfe protesteth to be encouraging all the faythfull to professe the truth and giuing them to wit that in defending that they defende Christ himselfe before all other worldly respectes whatsoeuer What a godly pretence of zeale is here to God were it not for pure loue they heare to God master Stapleton promiseth for them as theyr spokes man they would obey their Prince Nowe surely this séemeth to procéede of an holy zeale But what is that they meane here by this absolute obedience to God God may be absolutely obeyed and the Prince also next to God conditionally be obeyed as the chiefe setter foorth of Gods absolute obedience God in his holie worde neuer spake any thing against obedience to the Prince whereby any Hypocrite might pretende a scruple of disobeying God if next vnder God he obeyed his Prince but God in his worde commaundeth vs so to obey him What meane they then to alleage God for theyr disobedience Forsooth here is a mystery ye must vnderstande by God the Pope for so he is called Dominus deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope ▪ and their obedience to the Prince herein is flatte agaynst this Gods obedience And bicause master Stapleton and his fellowes are priests of this Gods making they must therefore disobey theyr Prince And this is the very matter So Thomas Becked died for Gods cause and what was that forsooth the franchisies of the Popes Church For all that is for the Pope and Popery and the Popish priests honours is only for God for Christ and for the truth when it is for the Deuill as soone as indéede it is for him the Authour of all such hypocriticall disobedience and for their owne filthie lucre But God is a good God he must beare the name of all ▪ The Papistes being thus by theyr Attourney master Stapleton excused of theyr Disobedience least this shoulde not be thought sufficient There is yet behinde one other proper waye of excusing themselues and that is to fall in accusing the Bishop that therby the papists may be thought the more excusable Beside all this I say sayth master Stapleton whosoeuer will but indifferently consider the matter shall see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Queenes Maiesties gouernment by the statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembing silence than the Catholikes doe by open and plaine contradiction Ye charge the B. here with abridging the Queenes Maiesties gouernement by dissembling silence This is your former quarrell M. Stap. yet could ye hitherto proue nothing omitted concerning the verie gouernment it selfe and therefore ye wrangled about other clauses of debarring the gouernement from any foreine person and of vniting the gouernment to the crowne of Englande which bicause the B. set not downe as parcels of the gouernment which ech man séeth are none ye chalenge him of dissembling silence and do as one that either hath nothing else to saye or that this is some such notable triumph that ye thought good to end your first booke therewith as it were a gyrde to the Bishop and a pricke fastened in the Readers minde to cause him mislyke of the Bishops dealing and suspect the whole cause thereby This indéede were somewhat oratorlyke if it were not so apparant an vntruth that euery body might behold the falshood therof the malice of you and the impertinencie of the quarrell But as you thereby are able crie it out as fast and as lowde as ye will to proue nothing in word or déede against the Bishop and therefore run to byous quarrels of silence and abridging in effect so your selfe while ye would excuse your selfe as not discontented nor repining subiectes accuse your selfe without any dissembling at all And are not ashamed to confesse that ye withstande hir Maiesties gouernment by open and plaine contradiction Though therefore your accusation of the Bishop be to any indifferent man to consider the matter no excuse of your disobedience yet any that shall indifferently consider the matter yea though he were som what partiall on your side sith so openly and plainely ye dare open your contradiction thereto will holde you altogither vnexcusable and iudge you on your owne mouth But let vs sée why ye are thus importune with the Bishop to accuse him so often nowe in the ende of this booke whether ye haue any newe matter to lay to his charge that ye haue not yet vttred how truly ye accuse him For say you whereas the statute and the othe to the which all must sweare expresseth a supreme gouernment in all things and causes without exception M. Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this generall decree and amplifying that little which he giueth to the Queenes Maiestie with copie of wordes full statutelike he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the statute the principall cause ecclesiasticall ▪ And what is that you aske forsooth iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessarie in the Church than that the supreme gouernour thereof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truth and to make an ende of questioning this in the statute by M. Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of all things and causes ecclesiasticall this is absolutely the chiefest Why M. St. are ye nowe of a contrarie opinion to that if ye be remembred that ye were before for then ye reasoned that omission and silence was no deniall but concluded the contrarie Qui
tâ—…cet consentire videtur for he that holdeth his peace seemeth to consent Howbeit I crie you mercie the case is altered For there ye defend your client here ye oppugne your aduersarie And belike ye haue some priuiledge from Rome euer to turne the matter so as may best serue your turne But and it were not for this your priuiledge surely I woulde further aske ye howe chaunce so soone ye haue forgotten your late vaunt and euen in this leafe wherin ye crake that ye walke not in generall wordes but restrayne your selfe to particulars now stande quarrelling about the generall words of the statute and mocke the B. for particulars if ye shalâ—… laye forth your priuiledge to doe this when ye thinke ye may get some aduauntage thereby yet I thinke your priuiledge stretcheth not both to wrest the state of the question in hande and of the issue to the statute and to wrest and belâ—…e the statute as ye please and thereof to gather what false conclusion ye lyst For first ye do the Bishop wrong â—…th Maister Feckenham hath set vp his issue to be prooued Anye suche gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes to driue the bishop from thence to the wordes of the statute that expresse it in all ecclesiasticall causes Herein ye offer the bishop wrong For by this issue betwéene them though the Bishop in euery Prince continually alleage not ensamples in euery Ecclesiasticall cause but nowe and then in all nowe and then in some for your Popes daily encroched on Princes and at length got the mâ—…st of all yet hath the Bishop proued and satisfied the vertue of this issue Any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes Howbeit ye do him further wrong to chalenge him here for leauing out any poynt of gouernment in any Ecclesiasticall cause that euen the statute giueth hir maiestie that is to say A supreme gouernement in all things and causes Doth not the bishop set downe this M. St hath he not specified euen the same wordes oftentimes already and doth not his particular specifications coÌ„teine as much here also Nâ—… say you he leaueth out the principall cause ecclesiasticall and most necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall Soft M. St. stay here or euer we demaund what this cause should be I demaunde only now why ye say supreme gouernour Ecclesiasticall is this your honestie in handling the statute doth the Quéene take vpon hir to be a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall or doth the statute giue this title to hir maiestie A supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall the statute saith A supreme gouernor in all Ecclesiastical causes â–ª And is there no differeÌ„ce betwene an ecclesiastical gouernor a gouernor in eccles causes but you vse this your false captious speach to make that people beleue the slaÌ„der that ye raise on hir Maiesty as though she toke vpon hir to bean ecclesiasticall person to be a B. and a minister of the worde sacraments and by hir chiefe gouernmeÌ„t ouer bishops chalenged to be a chief or head bishop of Bishops like vnto your Pope And so hauing raised vp this slauÌ„der on the Quenes maiestie the statute ye chalenge the Bishop for omitting a principall ecclesiastical cause But what is that you aske forsooth iudgement say you determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise Here againe M. Stapl. ye speake as captiously for if by this iudgement ye meane an authoritie aboue the doctrine of Gods worde as all your side maintaineth that the word of God receyueth his authoritie of the Churches iudgement â–ª which Church ye call the Priestes and is authenticall bicause they haue ratified it so to be otherwise it were not true nor good then in déede as the Bishop hath set downe no such iudgement determining or approuing of doctrine neyther so coulde he haue done for the Quéenes Maiestie â—…keth no such supreme gouernement vpon hir nor such supreme gouernement is due to any other than to God alone who hath by Iesus Christ his sonne already fully determined in his holy worde what doctrine is good and true â–ª And what doctrine soeuer is besides that is neyther true nor good whosoeuer take vpon him to iudge determine and approue the same be it eyther your Pope or your Church neuer so much yea were it an angell from heauen â—…e must 〈◊〉 helde accursed But if ye meane by iudging determining and approuing of doctrine such authority as only acknowledgeth giueth testimonie admitteth alloweth setteth forth and strengthneth the doctrine of Christes onely worde not aâ—… ruler ouer it but as seruant vnto it and the reiecting or abolishing of all other doctrine against or besides that wordâ—… then hath the bishop not left out this ecclesiasticall cause in the statute though not iudging in that maner that the ecclesiasticall gouernour Bishop or Minister doth in his sermons or debating thereon but for so much as belongeth to a supreme gouernour And so sayth the bishop The gouernment that the Queenes Maiestie most iustly taketh on hir in ecclesiasticall causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the eccl. state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting foorth of true religion buitie and quietnesse of Christes Church visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schisâ—…es abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer Marke these words a little better M. Stap. and I trust you shall sée it was you that ouershot your selfe and lefte out good attention béeing caried away in a cocke brayne â—…ume with too hastie a preiudice And that the bishop left out héere no part of such iudgement determination and approuing of doctrine which is true and good which is otherwise as belongeth to suche a supreme gouernour as groundeth himselfe on Gods iudgement â–ª determining and approbation What do ye thinke is true religion no good doctrine with you If it be the bishop hath not omitted it Can he care and prouide for it direct and set it foorth without iudgement without the determining of it to be good and true without the approbation of it On the other side are errours and heresies no false nor naughtie doctrine with you if they be then the bishop named them and thinke ye the visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting can be without a iudgement and determination agaynst them Then sithe he in playne spéeche ascribeth all this to the Prince which fully answereth all this that ye call for if as I sayd ye vnderstande this iudgement determining and approuing a right ye shewe what a very continuall wrangler ye be where no cause at all is giuen But incontinent ye declare what ye meane by this iudgement of doctrine For what say you is more necessarie in the Churche than that the supreme gouernour therof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truthe and
force of his royall power oâ—… else a woman also might bothe teache in the Churche and also remitte sinnes and baptise orderly and solemnly and minister the sacrament of thankesgiuing For sithe bothe by the lawe of nations it is receyued that a woman may be admitted to the gouernment of a kingdome and in Moses lawe it is written when a man shall dye without a sonne the enheritance shall passe to the daughter but a kingdome commeth among many nations in the name of enheritaÌ„ce And sithe Debora the Prophetesse iudged the people of Israell and also Athalia and Alexandra haue reigned in Iurie it appeareth playnly that the kingly right appertayneth no lesse to women than to men VVhich also is to be sayde of children bicause according to the Apostle the heire though he be a childe is Lorde of all And Ioas began to raygne when he was seuen yere olde and Iosias reigned at the eight yere of his age But a childe for the defecte of iudgement a woman for the imbecillitie of hir kinde is not admitted to the preaching of Gods worde or to the solemne administration of the Sacraments I permit not sayth the Apostle a woman to teache For it is a shame for a woman to speake in the Churche and the same Apostle sayth that the heire being a childe diffreth nothing from a seruant But it is not the ecclesiasticall custome that he which remayneth yet a seruaunt shoulde be a minister of the Churche Sith therefore in the right of a kingdome the cause is all one of a man of a woman and of a childe but of like causes there is like and all one iudgement but neither childe nor woman and therevpon neither man also that is nothing else but king can do those things in his kingdome which of other ministers of the churche of God are necessarily to be done therfore it commeth to passe that neither the same king can rightly be called the supreme gouernour and head of the Church wherin he liueth All this long argument standeth stil on the foresayd principle that a supreme head or gouernour must be such a person as may do all the actions of all the offices belonging to all the parties gouerned But this is a false principle as alredy is manifestly declared therfore al this long driuen argument is to no purpose The Prince for all this may stil be the supreme head or gouernour ouer all Ecclesiastical persons so well as temporall in all their ecclesiasticall causes so well as in temporall although he himselfe can not exercise all ecclesiasticall functions nor doe himselfe all the ecclesiasticall actions of all ecclesiastical persons For else he might also be debarred of all supremacie ouer all ciuill and temporall persons in all their ciuill and temporall causes bicause he can not himselfe exercise all the ciuil and temporall offices nor do himselfe all the ciuill and temporall actions of all the ciuill and temporall persons neyther And so shoulde â—…e cleane be debarred from supremacie in either power nor haue any supreme gouernment at all Nowe taking this your false principle pro confesso â–ª after your wonted maner ye would driue vs to an absurditie as ye suppose by bringing in more examples of a woman and a chyld reasoning thus A pari from the like A woman and a child may be as well a supreme gouernor as may a man and hath as good right thereto But a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiasticall Ergo A man can not be a supreme gouernour neither in causes Ecclesiasticall For to this conclusion the force of bothe the promisses naturally driueth the argument I know ye clap in a paire of parenthesis saying in your coÌ„clusion neither a man also that is nothing else but a king But sith these wâ—…r des ar neither in the maior nor the minor the coÌ„clusion is plain â–ª that a man can not be a Supreme gouernor in causes Ecclesiasticall And I pray ye then tell me who shall be the supreme gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes if neyther man woman nor chyld may be wherby are not only excluded ciuill Princes but youre Popes are debarred from it Pope Ioane and Pope Iohn also For if they vse that order in the election to haue a Cardinall féele that all be safe yf the Uersicle be sayde Testiculos habet howe can the quyre meryly syng in the responce Deo gratias If hée be founde to bée a man he can not be supreme gouernoure Maister Saunders therefore muste néedes mende thys argumente or else the Popes for whome he writes this boke wyl con him small thanks except that they be Eunuches But Master Saunders not marking the sequele of hys conclusion fortifieth the parts of his argument To confirme the maior A woman and a childe may be as wel a supreme gouernour as a man he citeth the lawe Num. 27. he citeth ensamples Debora Athalia and Alexandra for women For children he citeth the Apostle Gal. 4. and the ensamples of Ioas and Iosias But these proues are superfluous sith the controuersie is not on the maior but on the minor Which minor is the point in controuersie and denied of vs that a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical To confirme this minor for a woman he alleageth that she can not be admitted to preache the woorde of God remit sinnes nor baptize orderly and solemnely nor administer the Lordes Supper bothe for the imbecillitie of hir kinde and for Saint Paules prohibition of teaching in the Church For a chyld he lykewise can not do the same things as well for defect of iudgement in his nonage as for Sainte Paules witnesse that he differs not from a seruant But the Churches vse is not for seruantes to doe these things and so not for children to do them Here for confirmation of his minor master Sanders rusâ—…s to his false former principle that if the woman the chyld be supreme gouernors in these things then muste they be able themselues to do these things But they cannot do these thinges themselues Ergo they can haue no supreme gouernmeÌ„t in them But this reason is alreadie taken away and therfore al this argumeÌ„t falles We graunt it is true that neither women nor children can do these things And therfore the Papistes are to blame that suffer women to bapatize and to saye or sing in theyr quyres theyr ordinarie seruice and reade the Lessons Wee graunte them also that no men neyther but suche as bée lawfully called therevnto maye themselues exercise and do these things but doth this fellow they may not therfore haue a gouernment ouer those that doo them in their orderly doing of them if this were true then take away all their gouernement ouer all lay persons and all ciuil causes too For neyther women can nor ought them selues to do all that men béeing their subiects can and ought to
lay in them to haue a king or no and not rather in these kings that had subdued them who althoughe they appointed or suffered petit rulers ouer them yet woulde they not suffer them to haue a king But whyle they had kings we reason of those kinges authoritie But what reason haue you else for this is a very slender one But this say you in this kinde I will make my principall reason that Christ when he was in this worlde and fulfilled the whole law and all righteousnesse yet notwithstanding he would in thinges ecclesiasticall onely that the Priest and by no meanes that the earthly king should gouerne This were a principall reason in déede if you could proue this M. Saunders but as yet you haue not proued it and I thinke it will be harder than you wéene for you to doe Now to proue it you reason thus For he openly refused to administer an earthly kingdome and therfore fled when he sawe the people go about to make him a king And he denied that he was ordeyned to be a deuider betweene the brethren But if so be that after the perfecte reason and minde of Moses lawe it had at least beene comely either the Churche or the Bishop to be gouerned of an earthly King Christ would not haue left that thing vnfulfilled For it was no harde matter for him to haue administred a earthly kingdome for some very little time the which when he did not neither yet omitted he any thing that can iustly be desired to the perfect gouernement of his Churche It hath neuer beene at any time or yet is of any perfection that an earthly king shoulde arrogate to him selfe any power in ecclesiasticall matters besides this that with his sworde he shoulde defende and fight for that whiche is defined by the Prieste â–ª sentences And is this necessarie in the Churche M. Saunders that the Prince may do thus much with his sworde But I pray you where dyd Christ thus muche as to fight for the Priests decrees with a sworde If your reason be good you muste shewe this or else why reason you from the factes of Christe whyle he was héere on earth if you can shewe as you promised that Christe woulde that the Priest and by no meanes the prince shuld gouerne in eccl. matters this were to the purpose But this you shew not but would windelace it in with a bought that if Christ would haue had Princes gouerne in ecclesiasticall matters he woulde haue bene a Prince him selfe but he would neuer be a Prince and yet if he had would he might therefore he woulde not haue Princes meddle in matters of his Church sithe he woulde not meâ—…le in matters pertayning to their gouernement If this were a good reason I might reuerse it thus that sithe be medled in their matters when he had tribute to be paide to Cesar when he bad his Disciples not feare them that kill the body when he called Herode Foxe when he tolde Pilate he had no power but that was giuen him from aboue therefore they agayne might meddle in his matters bicause he medled in theirs This is as good a reason as yours But ye say Christ tooke not a kingdome vpon him nor woulde deuide lands yet he tooke vpon him all things necessarie for his Churches gouernment what shoulde you conclude hereon Ergo the Princes gouernment is not necessarie in Church causes is this the direct coÌ„clusion Nay M. Saund. either the coÌ„clusion takes away the Princes gouernmeÌ„t froÌ„ the Church of Christ or else which it doth in déed it hitteth your Pope if you marke it well who pretending to follow Christ taketh an earthly kingdome vpon him and deuideth landes which Christ refused to do The argument is thus Christ did al that was necessary but Christ did not take vpoÌ„ him a kingdome Ergo he thought it not necessary This is flat agaynst the Pope but nothing agaynst christian Princes The coÌ„clusioÌ„ is good for it was not necessary for Christ in his person yet for christian Princes it might wel be necessarie It is necessarie for christian Princes as your selfe coÌ„fesse to vse the teÌ„poral sword in the churches defence and yet Christ him selfe did neuer vse it Except you wil say he vsed it after a sort when with a materiall whip outwarde violeÌ„ce he draue the byers sellers out of the temple But then I replie that herein he exercised for the while eueÌ„ the office of a Magistrate shewed not onely his owne zeale power of his kingdome but also a paterne to al Magistrates Princes with what zeale power they shâ—…ld exercise their authoritie in reforming abuses in the church of god Although Christ him self did not personally handle the sworde as they personally may do Neither yet did Christ all those thinges that his ministers did ought to do It is necessarie for the ministers to baptise yet Christ him selfe that we read of did neuer baptise any he could haue don it if he had thought it necessarie What shal we say with M. Sand he did al that was necessary but he did not baptise Ergo to baptise is not necessarie This therefore is a wrong principle that Christe must haue done euery thing personally him selfe that is necessarie to be done in his Church True it is that if Christe neither did it nor taught it to be done by him self nor by his Apostles but would the contrarie as M. Sand sayth then the argument were good so it confuteth a nuÌ„ber of Popish traditions that were neither done nor taught by Christ nor his Apostles but rather that contrary But as for this gouernment of Princes as M. Sanders him selfe confesseth was practised in the olde lawe whiche lawe gaue the Prince his charge therin And Christ testiâ—…eth that he came not to breake the lawe but to fulfill it And althoughe he became not a Prince him self which might haue seemed to haue made â—…or the Popes purpose but rather condemneth it in his ministers yet both he him self his Apostles obeyed the Prince then ruling which now the Pope denieth statly to do But ye say Christ his Apostles obeyed them not in eccl. matters Neither was it reason M. San. both bicause Christ him selfe was the law maker his Apostles were the first teachers of it Princes then were Infidels But to reason now from the like state in the princes that now are christiaÌ„â—… to giue in all things like authoritie to Bishops paâ—…ors with Christ and his Apostles is as farre from reason on the other side Neither yet do we debarre from Bishops and Pastors that superioritie ouer Princes that is giuen by Christe and his Apostles to them and their successours of the administration of spirituall and ecclesiastical things neither do we as M. Saunders sayth giue the gouernement of the Churche of Christe to an earthly Prince For bothe the Prince is Christian and not
to him selfe without Gods permission If this be true that héere you say M. Saunders as it is moste true if Samuels words do so sounde in your eares as though he had sayde Saule coulde not be king ouer Gods people except the Lorde anoynted him If the Lorde reserue this prerogatiue to him selfe to appoynt Princes and giue kingdomes where he onely pleaseth howe then is this true that kings and kingdomes are so vnder the Churche that she may freely dispose decree of theÌ„ as she pleaseth Although the Church be the Lordes spouse and wyfe yet is she not hir selfe the Lorde nor the Lorde is ruled by hir but she by the Lorde neither hathe he giuen hir this prerogatiue but as you héere confesse it is a thing belonging onely to him And therefore by your owne confession Kinges and kingdomes are not so vnder the Church that she may dispose and decree as she thinketh good of them And as your owne witnesse thus beateth your selfe in your owne example So to consider this example further Saule was appoynted King of God and thoughe at the firste he was a good King yet afterwarde he became bothe a tyrant in lyfe and an Apostata in doctrine by which occasion he was a great offence to the Churche of god What nowe did the Churche of God saye she had suche freedome ouer him and his kingdome that she might freely dispose and decree thereof as should be profitable for the whole â–ª mysticall body Surely to the Churches iudgement it appeared more profitable if this ill Kyng hadde béene deposed and some other godly man placed in hys steede muche more if Dauid hadde beene placed â–ª whom GOD likewyse had anoynted to be their king Dyd the Churche this No coulde they haue done this No they had no suche fréedome but they let Saule alone and committed the case to God who at his good oportunitie as he onely sent the king so he only tooke him away and sent them another For onely God transposeth kingdomes and not the Churche as he him selfe testifieth who is the best Iudge we can appeale vnto saying Per me Reges regnant Kinges rule by me and not by my Churche And so confesseth Daniel He chaungeth times and ages he translateth kingdomes and establisheth them His Church therefore hathe not the free disposition of them But sayth master Saunders God anoynted Saule to be the Prince not by him selfe but by his Minister wherefore whosoeuer ruleth ouer the Christian people whiche is no lesse acceptable to God than was the people of the Iewes he besides the right that he receyued by the consent of the people ought also to acknowledge his power to be of Christe by his Ministers if so be that he be suche an one as worshippeth the fayth of Christe VVherevpon to this day all christian Kinges are anoynted of some christian Bishop or some other minister of God referring therein their principalitie not onely to the people and so vnto God But referre it besides by the Ministers of Christe to Christe whose Ministers they are Your argument is this The King is anoynted of God. But this is done by the ministerie of Gods Prophetes or Ministers Ergo Not onelie God but his Ministers haue the free disposing and decreeing of Kings and kingdomes Your conclusion is not in so playne English but colourably you fetche the matter about the bushe saying therefore they muste referre their principalitie not onely to the people and so to God but referre it besides by the ministers of Christ to Christ whose ministers they are What néede this nice daliaunce and circumquaques M. Saunders that almoste men can scarse tell what you meane but that you meane some fal shode If you meane they shoulde referre it to the Ministers of Christ that is an vntruth If you meane they must refeâ—…e it so to Christe by his Ministers that it takes the authoritie of the Ministers that is another vntruthe If you meane it muste be referred to Christe that worketh it by the ministerie of his Ministers howbeit there is no suche necessitie neither in the making of Kinges althoughe it be orderly and ordinarily done by their ministerie yet what serueth this to the purpose Speake playnely man and say the king is made king by the Bishops Ergo the Bishops may dispose and decree of him and his kingdome and may depose him and giue the kingdome to another as they shall thinke good â–ª For this is your playne drifte But we denie your argument for by the like you mighte make euery mans baptisme and sayth to hang of the free disposition decreeing and alteration of the Minister sithe these things are receyued by the Minister but the force of them dependes not on the minister And much lesse that bicause suche a Bishop crowned the King therefore he may rule the King and haue free disposition to decree what the King shall doe and whether he shall continue King or no. No M. Saund. and if he had the authoritie to make the King yet the King beeing made it followeth not that he may marre him too But the moste that you can make of the Minister in the Kings Coronation â–ª is but Causa sine qua non that he can not well be made without him and yet in very déede it is not so muche and therefore this is but a slender argument But sée how you runne héere craftily from the Church to the Bishop your argument was of the Church and your conclusion is of the Bishop Wherby you meane that your Prelates only are of the church â–ª Which as it is most false so is it rather to be examined whether you be any ministers or parts of the churche at al if you speake of the churche of Christ. For as was shewed before neither the church â–ª nor the spirituall Ministers of Christ â–ª did euer take vpon them this deposing of kings and disposing of kingdomes that you chalenge Samuel whome you cite had béene a gouernour by an extraordinary calling béeing the laste Iudge before the Kings but after he had â–ª anoynted and declared Saule to be king he neuer tooke vpon him the publike gouernment of the kingdome And though God sent him to tell Saule how God would cast him off and though also God had him anoynt another yet would he not medâ—…e in the gouernmeÌ„t nor depose Saule nor incite Dauid or the people to depose him althoughe God had caste him cleane off but onely mourned for him If you can shewe any example of the contrarie I am sure we shall heare it but as yet we heare of none You tell vs of an elegante sentence of Pope Leo to the Emperour Leo. But as there is no greate elegancie in it so it maketh nothing to this purpose and the purpose that it maketh for is rather for the Princes gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes than agaynst it Howbeit to alleage a Pope for the vsurpation of the Pope is
euery ecclesiasticall cause What this supreme gouernement is Why kings Queenes are called Nourishers and Nurses of Gods Churche Stâ—…p 67. â—… M. Stâ—…p grantes to CoÌ„stantine this supreme gouerment and denieth it to the Queenes Maiestie M. Stap. goeth now about by wrangling to defeate all his former graunt The princebeing called Metaphorically as it were a Bish. maketh no breach into the offico of a Bishop What these vvordes Bishop and nourse betokeÌ„ although in deede the Prince be neyther nourse nor Bishop Stap. 68. a. Stapl. 68 b M. Stapl. false translation of Constantineâ—… wordes The sentence of Constantine and the true meaning therof Euseb. de vita Const. li. 4. Hovv M. Stap. vnderstandeth invvard things and outvvarde things hovv vve vnderstand them in Constantines sentence The matter maner of eyther Bishoprik Stapl. 29. b. As M. StapletoÌ„ vnderstandes this sentence the Turke is as good a bishop as a Christian â–ª Prince Procuration execution of Churche matters The Papistes vvould haue Princes to bee bâ—…t the Priests proctours and executioners â–ª at the moste Fol. 69. a. The Bishops allegatioÌ„s ouâ—… of the nevve Testament 62. b. Stap. 69. a â—… Sta. graunteth the Bish. argument Stap. 69. a M. Stapletons diuinitie Stap. 69. â—… M. Stapletoâ—… vp braydyng the Bishops diuinitie see what good diuinitie he hym selfe maketh M. Stapl. Logike Matth. 22. The nevv Testament confirmeth the figure of the old Testament That subiectes may paye tribute â–ª but they ought not All humanitie iâ—… destroied by by M. Stapletons good diuinitie Stap. 69. a The captious questions of the Iewes The flatte and generall aunswer of christ M. Stapl. dea leâ—…h as captiously as the Iewes An externall Prince An infidell Prince Luc. 2. Stap. 69. a. b By the name of Cesar Christe compreheÌ„deth all princes Christes aunswere a general commaundement Stapl. 69. b. M. Sea. manyfest vntruâ—… Stap. 69. B By M. Stapletons exposition of Christes Sentence not all obediencâ—… to Princes 〈◊〉 seâ—…e at libertie but all obedience to God. The one parte of the sentence bindeth asmuche as the other Matth. 22. M. Stapletons Grammer The iudgemeÌ„t of the writers of this sentence cleane contrarie to maister Stapleton Lib. de fug in persecution In Matth. 22. tract 21. The same saith M. Stapl. Orig. ibid. In. 20. Luc. homil 38. In Mat. câ—… 23. In regula Monachorum In Matth. 22. homil 71. In Luc. lib. 9. cap. 20. Contr. FaustuÌ„ Manichaeuâ—… lib. 22. ca. 74. In. 22. Math. Lyra in Matth. 22. M. Stapletons contradictions Stapl. 69. b. Stap. 70. â—… This admonition godly and necessarie Stap. fol. 70. What a proper determination M. Sta. maketh of Christes sentence Stapl. 70. a M. Stapleton measureth our doings by his owne The practise of the Popes with christian princes Sta pag. 70. â—… The Bishoppes further testimonies of the newe Testament with the fathers iudgementes theron The order of M. Stapletons ansvvere Stap. pag. 71. b M. Stapletons maner at firste to graunte aooÌ„ after by some wrangling distinction to reuoke his graunt M. Sta. graunteth the Prince hath the ouersight as well of the first as the second table Stapl. pag. 72. Stap. pag. 72. M. Stapletons shifte of the court of conscience Melancth v â–ª supra The Prince dealeth neither with the fyrst nor secoÌ„d table in respect of the court of conscience but of the outwarde facte Stap. pag. 7â—… Stapl. 7â—… b. M. Stapl. after his pinching taketh cleane away his own graunt M. Stapleton woulde proue contradiction to MelancthoÌ„ Stap. fol. 72. b M. Stapl. subtile and false translating Stap. fol. 73. a. M. Stapletons cauill agayoste Mast. Nowell Christian Prin ces clayme not supreme goâ—…ement without limitation but the Pope clamyeth it Stapl. 73. â—… The acte of parliament Sta. pag. 73. â—… Stap. pag. 73. a Stap. pag. 73. a What maner of authoritie the othe of the supremacie requireth M. Stapletons quarell at the Bishops interpretation of this word godlynesse lib. 1. de trin cap. 14. S. Augustines exposition The exposition of other fathers Chrysost. in 1. Tim. 2. bomil 7 Ambâ—…osius in 1. Tim. 2. Hâ—…ymo in 1. Tim 2. Glossa interlineata â—…ytanus Hugo Card. Stapl. 73. b. Stap. fol. 73. b Stap. fol. 73. b. Sta. 73. b. The cause why the Apostles taughte obedience so earnestly Stap. fol. 72. b Stapl. fol. 73 b A distinction betweene the the Princes person or vices and his estate or office Chrysost. in Rom. Stapl. 73. b. The Pope claimeth superioritie in ciuile and temporall matters The Pope oughte to bee the Emperours subiect by M. Staplet owne graunt Chrysosto in Rom. 13. homil 23. Why the Prince is called gods minister Stap. fol. 73. b. Chrysost. homil 4. de eo ê™ scripsit Esa. Howe M. Sta â–ª citeth Chrysostome The facte of Czias whâ—…me the Papists alleage maketh agaynst themselues not against vs. Wherein the Pastor being the ministâ—…r of God surmouÌ„teth the Prince being also the ministâ—…s of God. Wherin againe the Princes ministerie surmounteâ—…h the pastours ministerie The sentence that the Papistes cite out of Chrysostome for their priestes maketh cleane against them Priestes mariage Chrysosto dâ—… verbis Esa. homil â—… Stap. fol. 74. a M. Stapletons argument The answere to the argument Stapl. 75. a. Stap. pag. 75. a Stap. 74. b. Fol. 75. a. Stapl. cap. 19. fol. 75. b Iohn 9. Constantine chaunged religion Tertull. The Queenes highnesse hath not altered but restored the olde and former faith What Bishops the Queenes Maiestie hathe deposed Stap. foll 7â—… b Why the prince is called the minister of God. The worde of doctrine Stapl. 75. b The Princes best ministeris and seruice Stap. fol. 75. b M. Stapletons shifting ansvvere Stap. 75. b. Stap. 75. b. Nicephorus iudgement of the Princes supremacie Stap. fol 76. b M. Stapletons Miste M. Stapletons inâ—…ect â—…e agaâ—…nst the homilie of images Matth. 23. Anthropol lib. 23. Lascaris The contention betweene the greeke and Latine churche for images Stap. 76. b. In the homilie against idolatrie Baruch 6. Stapl. 77. b. The Bishop of Sarum and the author of the homilie discharged of M. Stapl. chalenge Petrus Crinit l b. 9 cap. 9. de honest diâ—…c Te Papistes offended at our Homelies Bedes Homelies Sta. 79. a. b Mistaking the name of an Emperour Langus in prâ—…fa Niceph. Anthropolog lib. 23. The Papisteâ—… themselues call this Emperour as the Bishop did Stapl. 77. a. What a bragger M. Stapl. is Nicephorus selaundered â–ª lib. 4. cap. 8. fol. 468. b How M. Stap. reuileth the Emperour Praefat Langi in Eccl. histor Niceph. Stap. 77. b. Whereon wee buyld the Prin ces supremacie and whereon the Papistes buyld the Popes supromacie Langi Epist. ad Ferdin M Stapletoâ—…s order Stapl. 77. b M. Sta. burdeneth the Greke priests to farre The supremecie of the Greeke Emperours The Grecians opinion in the holie Ghostes proceeding Math. 7. Stapl. 77. b. 〈◊〉 77. b Stapl. 77. b. Stapl. 77. b. Stapl. 77. b â–ª Stapl. 78â—… Pag. 17. b. The Bishops proues
that M. Stapl. passeth so slightly ouer proue the full matter M. Stapleton letteth go the principall mat ter and quarels at the margin Stapl. 77. a. The englishing of the worde supremus The last taken for the chiefest The proportion betweene the stay of an anchor and the staye of a Prince Sadliâ—…g â—… Cowe Beggerly shifts Stapl. 78. b Nicephorus his amplification Stap. fol. 78. b The force of a metaphore 2. Tim. â—… Stapl. 78. b. 1. Tim. 8. M Stapletons order to this diuision Stapl. 79 b Stapl. 80. a. Stapl. 80. a Comparison of learning betweene bishop Gardineâ—… bishop White and Bishop Horne Sta. 80. a. Prouer. 12. Wherfore Nicephorus dedicated his ecclesiastical historie to the Emperour Prefa Niceph. The princes exact iudgement and censure in ecclesiastical matters The Princes reformation of the priestes and of the Churche Stapl. 80. b 79. â—… M. Stapl. inconstancie and contradiction Stapl. 80. b M Stap. grauÌ„teth the good regiment of magistrates to be the spring of true religioÌ„ Prosperitie religion ioyned in a Prince Prâ—…fa Niceph. Stap. 80. b. Stapl. 85. â—… The Grecians fell into the Turkes captiuitie after this submission to the Pope The Papistes haue as muche cause or more to beware by the Grecians captiuitie than the ProtestaÌ„ts The Pope the chiefe cause of the Greke emperours decay The Pope also the chief cause of the Weast Emperours decay The Greeke church neuer became captiue to the Turke till they became thrall to the Pope Stap. 81. a The countreys that obeyed the Pope become thrall to the Turks cap tiuitie Stapl. 81. â—… Blearing the readers eyes How M. Stapl. answeres the Bishops allegation Cyril epi. 17. â—…om â–ª 4. Wherein the Emperoures chief care consisted Obscuritie 2. Cor. 2. Stapl. 8 â—… â–ª b Generalities Particularities Cyril epi. 17. tom 4. The discussing and debating Ecclesiasticall matters argueth not the supreme gouernement of theÌ„ How the Papistes elude the examples of christian princes Stapl. 81. b Stapl. 81. b. M. Stapl. false and subtile translation Principalitie of priest â—…ode Priesthoode sprong not froÌ„ Peter Gal. 2. The Papistes saye S. Iames sayd the 〈◊〉 Masse Peter no massing priest What manner of principalitie of priesthoode Valentinian ment Concil tom 1. The Epistle of Placidia to Theodosius The Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius Theodosius Epistle to Valentinian Wherein the Emperour had the gouernement of the councell The Emperor decreeth the decree of the Councell No appeale after the Emperours decree Stapl. 82. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Act. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Pag. 19. b. M St. order to this diuision Stapl. 82. b. cap. 20. The state of the question Supra pag. 136. Stap. 82. b. The supreme authoritie the Papistes grauÌ„t to Princes and in what sense they graunt it Stap. 82. b. What state of the question M. St. setteth downe The oth of the supremacie The othe and the statute slaâ—… deâ—…ed by the Papistes Supreme gouernmeÌ„t is not all maner of gouernement How the ministers are higher or inferiour Stapl. 83. a. Stapl. 83. a. The statute eâ—… cluding any forain persons authoritie excludeth net the authoritie of the whole churche Gala. 3. Coloss. 3. Ephe. 2. What authoritie it is that the true catholike church hath Iohn 15. Stap. 8â—… a M. Stapl. quarell for vniting the supremacie to the crovvne M. Stapl. at the ende of his booke woulde leaue a scruple in the readers head of misselyking the state The answere to M. Stapl. inconneâ—…ence of a Turke or an heretike to haue this supremacie Difference betwene a Turke and an heretike What a Turke would doe if he had the crovvne Iob. 34. Psalm 147. The Princes certain and pre sente righte oughte not to be forsakeÌ„ for feare of vncertain inconueniences that may be doubted to come Difference betwene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie The Statute cleared from M. Stap. inconuenieÌ„ce Howe muche the Papistes regarde the crowâ—…e of 〈◊〉 How well the Pope wisheth to England Whether M. St. inconuenience wold not fall oute if the clause of supre macie were vnited to the Pope What the lawe respecteth in the statute Stapl. 83. a. b. Stapl. 83. b Stapl. â—…3 b. Stapl. 83. b. The excuses of the Papists Stapl. 83. b The Papistes pretence of zeale to God to disobey their Prince The absolute obedience to God hindreth not the conditionall obedience to the Prince What the Papists meane here by God. Hovv Thomas Becket died for Gods cause Sta. 83. b. The accusation of vs. Stapl. 83. b The B. charged for omitting the Principall ecclesiasticall cause Cap. 63. b M. Stapletons contradiction M. Stap. wold driue the B from his issue The Prince and the statute slâ—…undered Difference betwene ecclesiasticall gouernour and gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes How iudgement in ecclesiasticall causes is ascribed to the Prince how not Gal. 1. The statute slaundred The Popishe churche claymeth superioritie in iudgeging of doctrine aboue the Pope Stap. 48. a. Stap. 48. b. Math. 12. The original of bothe powers Lib. 2. cap. 1. pag 56. M. Saunders beginneth with contradictions to himselfe Saund. pag. 57 Saund. 57. Saund. 57. sand pag. 57. Supra pa. 108. Difference betwene the ciuill power of heathen and christian Prin ces Maister Saunders contradictions Saund. pag. 57 The kingdom of Christe in this world but not of this worlde Ecclesiasticall power Saund. pa. 57. How the royal power submitteth it selfe to the Ecclesiasticall power The distinction of In of Stapleton fol. 29. a. b. Deuter. 17. Saund. pa. 57. The vse of both powers M. Saunders contradictioÌ„ Supra pag. 791. Howe Hâ—…lie had the ciuil and ecclesiâ—…sticall power Howe Noe Melchizedech and Abraham had both powers Sâ—…und pa. 56. Howe Moyses had bothe powers How the Machabees had them Howe Samuel had them Speciall consecration Sauâ—… pag. 57. Ozias example Supra pag. sand pag. 57. Supra pag. 670. sand pag. 57. 58. The ende of both powers Math. 10. 1. Tim. 2. How farre the ende of the ciuill power stretcheth Supra pag. 117. M. San. maymeth S. Paules sentence Supra pag. 669. Killing the â—…o dy is not the proper ende of the Princes power An ill Priest killes the soule Platina de sententijs Pij 2. Pag. 80. M. Sanders contrarieth him selfe sand pag. 58. What superiour power we ascribe to the Prince Saund. pa. 5â—… M. sand order in this chapter sand pag. 58. M. Saunders Definition of a gouernour M. sand examples to coÌ„firme his definition M. sand definition false M. sand examples insufficient Diuers instances against M. sand exaÌ„ples The instance of an Embassadour M. Feck tale of a gentleman defending that mustard was good with all meate The instance â—… of woman sand pag. 58. Maister Saunders exceptioÌ„ The vvill and povver of a king restrayned by lavve The similitude of a mannes body Sand. 58. Matth. 28. Iohn 20. 1. Cor. 11. Num 27. Iud. 4. 4. Reg. 11. Gal. 4. 4. Reg. 11. 4. Reg 22. 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Gal. 4. M Saunders argumeÌ„t standeth all
will néedes haue it so and hath prepared himself onely to aunswere the deposition of the high Priest as the highest and principallest matter be it so let vs go forwarde with him and sée his aunswere thereto Although hereafter he must remember that if the placing and displacing of prelates be a matter of such importance as in déede it is to this present purpose that the answering of it includeth diuerse other weightie poyntes also then the inuestiture of Bishops is not so impertinent a matter as nowe and then he will sée me to make it being vrged therewith He must remember also that making all other obiections to rest on this as chiefe if he answere not this then both all the other be vnaunswered and this being a chiefe matter doth quite ouerthrow all his counterblast besides and brings his pope to his olde obedience yea in case also of lyke deposition to Abiathars Wherefore it standes him now in hande to answere well and surely vnto this obiection To go therefore like a profounde clerke déepely séene in the doctours the more authentically to worke he first presseth vs with the authorities of his good masters This thing sayth he Master Dorman and Master doctor Harding say employeth no more superioritie than if a man should say Queene Mary deposed Master Cranmer But Queene Marie was not the chiefe but an accessorie instrument for the furtherance of the execution Ergo Salomon in deposing Abiathar was not the chiefe but an accessorie instrument for the furtherance of the execucution Ye are much in Master D. Hardings debte already master Sapleton for much good stuffe that ye haue borrowed of him especially this example of Quéene Mary and Bishop Cranmer which I perceiue ye like full well therefore ye will borrowe it once againe and bicause master Dorman borrowes it out of him also ye will borrowe it of both neuerthelesse so that they haue the praise thereof that vsed it before you And therefore to gratifie your masters againe mulus mulum scabit for one mule as the latine prouerbe saith rubbes another mule you euer referre vs to their high authoritie saying I say with master D. Harding I say with master DormaÌ„ D. Har. sheweth master Dor. and master D. Harding affirme M. D. Harding noteth M. D. Harding toucheth and here master Dor. and master D. Harding say it imployeth no more Thus ye thinke to saue your credite with them to obiecte their credence and authoritie to vs But in thus doing either ye shewe a great arrogancie in them or an extreame flatry in your selfe with no lesse folly to frame your argument on their bare sayings and obiect it to vs for good authoritie they being parties aduersary besides God wotte their litle estimation euen among your selues Although herein taking witnesse thus one of another what is it else than to aske your owne fellowes if you say true or no Let go therefore your masters authoritie and if ye will néedes alleage them alleage their reasons if they haue any and tel vs not they say iâ—… imployes no more but proue you or alleage their proues that it employes no more Ye vrge the doings of Quéene Marie how litle they imployed but ye take pro concesso and not to be denyed to your Master that their doings were alike â–ª wheras they were most vnlike and quite contrary Quéene Mary ye say was but the accessorie instrumente therein to the high prieste which is ye say the Pope but Salomon deposing the high priest that as ye likewise say was the figure of your Pope how could he be an accessorie instrumente to the high priest when he sat vppon him gaue indgemente against him and deposed him was the high priest the principall doer of it against him selfe and Salomon but his accessorie instrument indede your high priests beare princes so in hande that no body can sit in iudgement on them or depose them but they must do it them selues or else it can not be done Abiathar neuer learned that knacke but was iudged and deposed of his prince for all he was the highest priest nor the prince was his instrument thereof for then had he not bene deposed at all he would not haue made an instrument to Salomon to depose him selfe But Salomon did it against the will of Abiathar being a traytor to him nor he did it as the other priestes accessorie instrumente for aâ—… the other priests were inferiour to their high priest and the inferiour your lawe saith and good reason to can not depose the superiour Ergo he was accessarie instrument to no liuing creature herein but did it by his owne royall authoritie and therfore by this royall authoritie he was supreme gouernour ouer the priests yea the highest priest and all Nowe contrariwise Quéene Mary did not depose the highest priest which you say is your pope of Rome and not the Archbishop of Caunterbury excepte ye will translate your primacie froÌ„ Rome to Canterburie She wrongfully deposed the archbishop of Cant. or rather as ye say was but an accessorie instrument to the furtherance of the execution For so in very déede ye vsed hir while your Romish Pope his legats and prelats were the doers thereof she sate not on hym in iudgemente nor gaue sentence agaynste hym as did Salomon againste Abiathar and had she done so as ye woulde not haue allowed hir dooing so would ye not allowe him to be the highest priest And if ye will néedes haue it that their doings were alike then as King Salomon deposed by his princely authoritie the chiefe Bishop so after your account that the Byshop of Rome is the chiefe Bishop she should haue deposed the Bishop of Rome which she did not but set him vp in hir realme euen aboue hir selfe where he was before put downe so that these doings being in euery point contrary how are King Salomons doings with the high priest Abiathar like to the doings of Quéene marie to Bishop Cranmer and therefore this is but a shifting aunswere of your Masters olde stuffe and you are but their accessorie instrument to burnish it a freshe which ye doso yll fauouredly that your master or you can take little honestie by it Ye alleaged this comparison of Q. Mary out of your Master once before that Quéene Mary redressed religion but by the meanes of the Priests What is the meane wherby one doth any thing but the accessorie instrument whereby he doth it And what is the accessorie instrument but the meane But the Priestes ye say are the meane for the Prince to doe it by Ergo the Priestes were but the accessorie instrumentes to the Quéene Which if it were any abasing of the Princes superioritie whie is it not an abasing of your Priestes And as ye make these shiftes thus in the ende fall out against your cause so can ye not agrée in your owne tales to your selfe In the ensample of Dauid the Quéene was the represser and the Priests were the
and Sathan neyther of a kingdome in the sense of a Polycie gouerned by a king but in the sense of the spirituall giftes of christ In whiche sense euery faythfull man woman and childe is not onely a member of his kingdome but is a king Howbeit he is not a king in that sense that Christ denied his kingdome to be of the worlde that is to be a Magistrate and gouernour of Gods people which estate is onely graunted vnâ—… Princes and as flatly â—…ebarred from any ecclesiasticall person as from any other priuate man. Siâ—…he therefore we say not that other kingdomes oughte to be vnder the Ministers of the Church of Christ than those that already beleeue in Christe or at any time haue beleeued truely this is most foolishly obiected to vs that Bishops haue no power ouer Christian kings and their kingdomes bicause it is written the kingdome of Christ which is committed to his Ministers for the parte whereby he worketh heere is not of this world For we seeke it not of those kingdomes that are of this worlde but of those which althoughe they be in this worlde yet by fayth in Christe they haue lefte to be of this worlde M. Sand â–ª still wrestes of purpose this worde the worlde to sinne and to the state of the vnfaythful As though Christ onely ment My kingdome is not a kingdome of sinne and such as are the kingdomes of those Princes ouer whome the Prince of darknesse raygnes Whereas the wordes of Christe are playne that his kingdome is not suche a kingdome as ruleth in worldly glorie whether it were of the faithfull kinges or the vnfaythfull For the Iewes that would haue made him a king dyd not doubte of this that he would become a tyrant or an vnfaythfull Prince they hoped he would be a better Prince vnto them â–ª than he was that then oppressed them they trusted he woulde gouerne them as Dauid Salomon and other godly princes had done they reckoned that their Messias shoulde rule in all worldly glorie as a moste mightie king But this opinion Christe denieth in his fléeing from their offer And so he sayde to Pilate If my kingdome were of this worlde my ministers would fighte for me that is I could not by tyrannie but by worldly and lawfull power and force maynteine my kingdome Neyther did his Disciples when they desired suche preheminence in his kingdome thinke his kingdome was a kingdome of sinne or a rule of vnfaithfulnesse but thought of a very worldly gouernment shining in all might and glory which they tooke to be good and lawfull and him to be most worthy of it And this is that that Christ reproueth in them affirming that neither he nor they shoulde raigne in suche sorte as worldly Princes do whether they were faithfull or vnfaithfull Princes Not that Christ gouerneth not the faythfull Princes For they obediently submit their earthly kingdomes to his spirituall kingdome yea and to the ministers of his kingdome too in thinges belonging to the ministerie of his spirituall kingdome But that the Ministers of the spirituall kingdome of Christ haue suche power ouer any Christian Prince that beléeueth in Christ that they may take his estate from him that they theÌ„ selues may rule in his estate that they may make him holde his estate of them that they oughte not to be subiect to his estate this is the thing that M. San. laboreth in and would bring all kings and their kingdomes vnto that either haue the faithe of Christe already or at any tyme haue had it as Ierusalem Syria Gréece Asia Egypte Africa and diuers other countreys so well vnder the Turke and Saracens as all Christian kingdomes in the worlde to be subiecte to the Popes authoritie to receyue or forsake their kingdomes at his pleasure But this and suche other worldly glory of rulâ—…g kingdomes is flatly debarred by Christes saying My kingdome is not of this worlde neither all the wisdome of the worlde can coâ—…nteruayle this sentence how foolishly soeuer we seeme to M. Sanders to obiect it But this is his olde song all are rooles and doltes with him that obiecte any thing agaynst the Popes worldly wyse Dominion But this foolishnesse we néede not be ashamed of that is the decrée of Christ who is the fathers wisedome If therefore wee see suche a kingdome as is dedicated to Christe thus gouerned that the King by abuse of the sworde whiche he carrieth carrie away the Christian Citizens into moste greeuous sinnes yea into schismes and heresie if he say Christe is but a creature if euery where he permitte diuorces if he affirme vsuries to be lawfull shall it be a wicked deede first after one or two admonitions to remoue this King from the felowship of the faythfull and then if he yet amende not him selfe by the helpe of other Princes to expel him vtterly from the gouernment of his kingdome If a Christian King were suche an other wicked King as héere you imagine you aske if it were a wicked deede thus to order him I answere you it were a wicked deede For and he were ten times more wicked that excuseth not the Bishops treason to incite other to expell him None of the auncient godly Bishops did euer attempt that treâ—…heris agaynst such wicked Princes were they Arians Tyrants or whatsoeuer they were til the later Popes did set abroche this trayterous practise For a Bishop beeing but a subiect althoughe he is not bounde to obey the Princes vices yea he is bounde bothe to disobey the vices and to reproue the Prince for them and to terrifie him with the threates of Gods wrathe althoughe it coste him his life for his labor yet is he not bounde to rebell or cause other to rebell or to practise conspiracies with other agaynst his Prince wherby effusion of Christian bloud ensueth Yea he is bounde to the contrarie to obey his ciuill gouernment and not he to abuse his estate also bicause the Prince abuseth his estate but to vse all lawfull meanes he can to reforme him committing the rest to God who placed him and whom he representeth in his calling thoughe he swarue from him in his ruling As for the Bishops haue no suche calling to depose him nor any suche ruling as worldly Princes good or ill do exercise And therfore if they take this vsurpation vpon them thoughe they oughte not to depose Princes yet ought Princes to depose them especially béeing infected with those vices that M. San. suâ—…niseth are in these Princes Haue not Popes made schismes when two or thrée or foure at once striued for the Papacie haue not Popes maynteined Christ is a creature â–ª as Liberius that was an Arian and a sinfull creature yea alyer as Leo the tenthe obiected to Bembus Quidmibi narras de Christo fabulas VVhat tellest thou me the fables of Christ Hath not the Pope not onely permitted diuorces for many other causes
than God permitteth but also by force and agaynst the consent of bothe the parties seuered those that God hathe ioyned and ioyned those that God hath forbidden to be ioyned Dothe not the Pope maynteine the greatest vsuries that be to wit the Iewes to pill and poll the Christians and al for his own lucre besides his most filthy and vnlawfull gayne by fornication Doth not the Pope by the abuse of the sword keyes that he saith he carrieth carrie away the Christian citizens into most greeuous sinnes yea and say he may carrie away with him at the world to the diuel no maÌ„ must be so hardie as to say sir why do you thus Shal it now be a wicked deede to remoue the Pope from the felowship of the faithful after one or two admonitions then if he amend not him selfe that all Christian Princes helpe to expell him vtterly froÌ„ the vsurpation of this his worldly kingdome But M. Sa. not séeing these vices in his holy father surmising the worst in Princes supposeth we will answere his obiection thus But one wil say no power is giueÌ„ vnto the Church of punishing or of remouing the kings froÌ„ their office therfore if the kings wil not of their own accord be ameÌ„ded they are altogither to be born withal neither caÌ„ any other thing be lawfully attempted agaynst them This truely do many preache Who they be that preach this I know not I think it but your slaunder Ill will neuer sayde well And yet whosoeso preacheth this preacheth farre better than you do whose sermon is all of treason rebellion As for vs we preache this that the preacher or spirituall pastor may in suche extremities vse a spirituall punishment of denouncing the sentence of Gods wrath agaynst him But to punishe him with bodily punishment or with expelling him from his kingdome is no more belonging to the Bishop than to put him to death The state of some kingdomes are such I grauÌ„t that the Princes regiment is but conditional and he so wel bounde to the electors of him other péeres or estates in his Signiorie as they to him and either parties sworne in his Coronation not onely to obserue those conditions but to persecute or remoue the violater of them In suche cases what those Electors Péeres Estates may do howe they may or may not do it is an other matter But that eueÌ„ in these estates the Bishops caÌ„ do it do it in that they are Bishops this we denie M. Sand and as yet you haue not proued it But I doubte not but that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe whether they be lambes or lambes dammes or rammes and that to this purpose that he shoulde strengthen that that is weake that he should heale that that is sicke that he shoulde binde vp that that is broken that he should bring againe that that is caste away that he should seeke that that is loste so that he rule not with austeritie and power You doubt not M. sand but I doubt of this that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe The eccl. power is both necessarie and profitable But the Prince is a pastor and the people are his sheepe And yet by your owne confession the ecclesiasticall power is not giuen to the Prince Had you marked this you mighte haue doubted that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the pastor ouer his sheepe Agayne the power of the sworde and putting to death malefactors is a necessarie and profitable power But the Bishop is a pastor and the people are his sheepe And yet by your own confession the power of the sworde and putting to death is not giuen to the Bishop Had you séene this also you might haue doubted that euery necessarie and profitable power is giuen to the Pastor ouer his sheepe This lacke of doubting made you toâ—… rashe of déeming and to pronounce your sentence ouer general And as you sée in these two cases a flatte exception that you wil gladly reuoke so we muste driue you to graunte the other powers also pertayning to a King whiche notwithstanding they are necessarie and profitable are yet not giuen vnto a Bishop although he be a Pastor I pray you remember Vos autem non sic if it will not make you sicke to remember it The duties of good pastors that you cite out of Ezech. 34. God we graunt hath giuen them power thereto But the Popish pastors are as farre froÌ„ all these points much farther than the Iewishe pastors were of whome the Lorde coÌ„playneth saying VVo be to the pastors of Israel that feed theÌ„selues are not â—…he sheepe fed of the shepherds ye did eate the milk were clad with the wol â–ª that that was fat ye killed but my flock ye fed not â–ª that that was weak ye streÌ„gthned not that that was sick ye healed not that that was brokeÌ„ ye bouÌ„d not vp that that was cast away ye brought not in that that was lost ye sought not but ye ruled them with bitternesse with power how this directly toucheth the Pope and his Prelates euen the popish enterlined Glosse doth testifie Hoc proprie c. This properly is spoken of the pride of Bishops which shame with their works the dignitie of their name for humilitie taking pride who thinke they haue gotten heauen and not a burthen Whose loytring idlenesse whose vaine glorious pride whose bitter tyrannie more than kingly power was so intollerable that it was maruell that euer you durst for shame recite this place But you thought it serued to your purpose that you might vnder the name of sheepe punishe driue out Princes at your pleasures But this place giueth not Pastors power to weaken them that be strong to make them sicke that be hole to breake that that is bound vp to caste out that that is brought in to leese that that was sought for to kil deuour both the fat the leane both the Prince the people to rule with biâ—…ternesse with power al which by your popes practise is don by your exposition is defended For is not that to rule with bitternesse if ye expel your Princes froÌ„ their kingdomes can ye be any bitterer to them what earthly power can ye clayme higher than to seaze vpoÌ„ rule their kingdomes or to haue theÌ„ rule them after your rules whom you will appoynt to â—…olde them in chiefe froÌ„ you This place of Ezechiell giueth you not suche power but condemneth in Pastors the vsurpation of it But what will not impudencie wrest to serue his turne Moreouer to the minde and to reason power is giuen ouer all the members of the body insomuche that it biddeth that rotten member to be â—…ut from the body of the which it may be feared least it should infect the other members