cannot ordinarily depose princes euen for a iust cause yet hee saith that the Pope may change kingdomes and take them from one and giue them to another not as he is princeps Ecclesia politicus but as hee is summus princeps spiritualis when they hinder religion taking that course which bringeth detriment to mens soules will not otherwise be reclaimed 111 Vpon this declaration made by this Examinate vpon such apparant grounds and collections as he could not denie it was demanded of him what his iudgement was as touching the contents of it Whereunto he answereth that he hath elswhere sufficiently opened his mind in that behalfe where he hath often said that in his iudgment the Pope iure diuino hath no authoritie inherent in him or not inherent directly or indirectly whether it be termed spirituall or temporall or a mixt authoritie or howsoeuer it is or may be called to depose kings either for heresie or Apostasie or for any other cause whatsoeuer or to release their subiects from their obedience or to authorize them to beare armes against them or to excommunicate the subiects of any such kings that refuse to enter into any such disobedient rebellious and traiterous courses but continue their faithfull and loyall subiects notwithstanding hee should tell them neuer so confidently that such their former kings being by him deposed were no longer their kings or any other allurements or perswasions whatsoeuer to the contrary Whereunto this Examinate now addeth that in his iudgement it is a vaine conceit and repugnant to the Scripture for any to affirme that the Pope hath any power authoritie or iurisdiction either potentially or actually ordinary or casuall to deale with kings or princes or with their subiects as is aboue mentioned or to holde and maintaine that kings and soueraigne princes haue their regall authoritie from the Pope or that they are to him as the rulers and Iudges amongst the Israelites were to Moses or that hee hath any authoritie at all as he is Christs vicar and S. Peters successour to deale with kings and princes for any cause or at any time further then concerneth the health of their soules and the maintenance of the Catholicke faith by admonitions perswasions and good counsell and if those will not serue then by the spirituall censures of the Church and by S. Peters keyes only and not so neither but when it is apparant that such spirituall censures may in deede and truely turne to edification and not to destruction and that they may be vsed without hurt or danger of Catholickes either in their bodies goods or liues All further proceedings of the Pope with kings and soueraigne princes as the chiefe pastour of their soules this Examinate saith hee doeth vtterly dislike and prayeth from the bottome of his heart that hereafter they may neuer be practised 112 But heere this Examinate being put in mind of his own words aboue specified wher he acknowledged the Pope to haue casualiter some authoritie in temporalibus without the limits of S. Peters patrimonie though the same were not inherent in him and thereupon required to declare his meaning therein he saith that he neither had nor hath any other meaning then this that when any questions or controuersies arise amongst Kings Princes and such other great persons as they cannot amongst themselues compound but yet are contented to referre the decision or compounding of them vnto the Pope vnto whome they are all subiect in Spirituall matters hee the said Pope may lawfully in this Examinates iudgement vpon this occasion and so casualiter intermedle and deale in the said questions and controuersies and order them for the establishing of vnitie friendship and concord betwixt the said parties although the particulars so questioned or controuerted be meerely and altogether of temporall conusance And also this Examinate further saith that the Pope may so deale as he thinketh when any King Prince or other great person will bee content for the strengthning of his owne purposes in some especiall matter to desire the Popes approbation of it For example the King of Fraunce hauing left his former wife and married another had by her a Decretal lib. 4. cap. 13 qui filij sunt legitimi sonne and a daughter and being as it seemed in doubt that his sonne after him might in that respect receiue some preiudice in his Title to succeede him he the said King entreated the Pope for the legitimation of his issue whereunto hee yeelded the deciding of any mans right or interest to a Kingdome no wayes properly belonging to the Pope but casually as here it hapned when the King was contented to referre it vnto him and might haue done it himselfe but that he thought when the Pope ioined with him that which they did together would bee of greater force 113 This will appeare more plainely by Innocentius his owne words in an other suite of the same nature made vnto him where a Gentleman of Montpeliar hauing likewise put away his wife and married another by whom he had children Ibidem in glossa was encouraged by the example of the King of France to labour to the Pope of the legitimating of his children in like sort quatenus eis natalium obiectio ceu exceptio non noceret quo minàs sibi succederent that the exception against their birth might not hurt them but that they should bee his heires But Innocentius denying his suite amongst some other reasons why hee so did vsed these that the King of Fraunce had no superiour in his Kingdome in Temporall causes but this Gentleman was a Subject that the King of Fraunce might without any mans hurt referre the said matter to the Pope which this Gentleman could not doe in his cause that the King did neede the consent of no man for the approouing of that which the Pope had done on his behalfe whereas if he the said Innotentius should legitimate this Gentlemans children it would not availe him without the assent of the King or Lord his superiour that the King had power in that point to submit himselfe to the Popes iurisdiction which this Gentleman had not and that the King might in some mens opinions of himselfe haue legitimated his said sonne and daughter without any assistance from the Pope So as this Gentlemans cause was farre vnlike the Kings Hereof Innocentius himselfe did write to the said Gentleman in this sort Insuper cùm Rex superiorem in temporalibus minimè Ibidem Per venerabilem citatur à Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. lib. 5. cap. 3. recognoscat sine iuris alterius loesione in eo se iurisdictioni nostrae subijcere potuit in quo videretur aliquibus quòdper seipsum non tanquam pater cum filijs sed tanquam Princeps cum subditis potuit dispensare tuautem nosceris alijs subiacere vnde sine-ipsorum forsan iniuriâ nisi praestarent nobis assensum in hoc subdere te non posses That is Moreouer inasmuch as
first three hundred yeres after Christ likewise his vtter dislike of sundry assertions propounded vnto him Sect. 49 some whereof maintaine contrary to Tertullians relation how Christians stood then affected that in those dayes armes might lawfully haue beene borne against the Emperours if the professors of the Name of Christ had beene able and some as touching sundry other vnsound and vncatholike matters in them contained concerning the losse of Kingdomes c. vpon excommunications Sect. 39 and also his opinion of the time when the deposing of Kings and absoluing their subiects from their alleageance were first made adiuncts to excommunication for ought he hath read Sect. 52. But yet he is contented as he saith a little further to enlarge himselfe according to the motion propounded and to that end affirmeth that hee doeth concurre in iudgement with these authors following and so out of his pocket-notes set downe their words in this maner 60 Apostoli nihil vi gerebant tantùm vtebantur gladio spiritus neminem agebant in exilium nullius inuadebant facultates Haec omnie Erasmus non minùs disertè quà m verè That is The Apostles did nothing by force they onely vsed the sword of the spirit they draue no man into exile they entered vpon no mans possessions All this saith Erasmus no lesse elegantly then truely Costerus in fidei demonstrat pag. 96. Si aliqui Reges cum populo se tradiderunt Romanis Pontificibus vt traditur de Anglis nihil ad nos Non tamen opinor quòd Angli vllo modo permitterent Pontificem destituere suum Regem alium constituere nunquam enim aliquem Romanorum Pontificum hoc facere permiserunt That is If any Kings with their people haue subiected themselues to the Bishoppes of Rome as it is reported of the English but vntruely as this Examinate hath before shewed that toucheth not vs. And yet I doe not thinke that the English would by any meanes permit the Pope to depose their King and constitute another for they neuer suffered any of the Bishops of Rome so to doe Iohan. Maior in 4. Sentent distinct 24. quaest 3. De ratione potestatis laicae est poenam ciuilem posse infligere vt sunt mors exilium bonorum priuatio c. sed nullam talem poenam ex institutione diuiná infligere potest Ecclesiastica potestas imò nec incarcerare vt plaerisque doctoribus placet sed ad solam poenam spiritualem extenditur vtpotè excommunicationem Reliquae autem poenae quibus vtitur ex iure purè positiuo sunt That is It is of the nature of lay power to bee able to inflict ciuill punishments as are death exile losse of goods c. but the Ecclesiasticall power cannot by the diuine ordinance impose any such punishment nay not imprison as the most Doctors doe hold but is extended to spirituall punishment alone as Excommunication The other punishments which it vseth are meerely out of positiue Law Iacobus Almain de Dominio naturali ciuili in vltima editione Gersonis pag. 696. 61. Here this Examinat being tolde that although he hath to some good purpose repeated what he had formerly said and a litle more enlarged himselfe then before in that hee hath acknowledged that what the Pope can doe more then Excommunicate he hath it ex iure purè positiuo meerely by positiue Law yet considering that he made no scruple to shew his dislike of the opiniō touching the Popes pretended authoritie in temporalibus directly in the 20. Sect but seemed loath to deliuer his iudgement concerning the other opinion of the Popes authoritie in Temporalibus in ordine ad Spiritualia indirectly in order to things spiritual it was further vrged against him that if he be indeed of Bellarmines minde in the points by him cited out of his booke it seemeth to be impossible that he this Examinat being a graue and learned man should thinke that that which Bellarmine hath said vpon very weake and simple grounds God knoweth for proofe of the Popes indirect authority in ordine ad Spiritualia is of sufficient force and moment to ouerthrow all that hee hath written before in his second third fourth and fifth Chapters of his said booke one of them being countenanced for offending too much with the word directè his arguments being in effect simple and absolute because it is most apparant to euery man that will not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe that hee the said Bellarmine hath giuen the Pope such a blow and deadly wound by many his so sound and substantiall arguments against his pretended direct authority as all the courses how indirect soeuer that can be deuised by the finest wits will neuer bee able to salue and cure it And therefore this Examinate was required very strictly herein to expresse himselfe more clearely 62 Whereupon this Examinate saith that he must indeed needs confesse and acknowledge that he hath wished with all his heart that either Cardinall Bellarmine had not intermedled with that question of the Popes authoritie in temporalibus indirectly or els that hee had bene able if it haue any trueth in it to haue handled it more pithily and throughly that the weakenes of his arguments for that point compared with the positions set downe by this Examinat out of his said booke as is aforesaid hath beene an especiall cause as he thinketh why many of later times doe so earnestly labour to refell them as foreseeing that if the Popes authority in temporalibus to depose Kings c. should stand vpon this point viz. that he had it but indirectly the same would be subiect to great hazard considering the oppositions in these dayes to the Church of Rome and that therefore insomuch as the thing it selfe viz. whether the Pope hath any authoritie at all to eradicate and depose Emperours and Kings for any cause which is aimed at on both sides aswell by them who affirme that he hath such an authoritie directly as by those who say hee hath it not directly but indirectly is notwithstanding left as yet vndetermined by the Church hee this Examinate desireth that hee may not bee further vrged to interpose his opinion otherwise then he hath done already in matters of so great moment and difficultie 63 This onely as appertaining hereunto he saith that he is much grieued to see the Popes Supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall so much entangled with these pretences of another supreme authority in temporalibus to be held directly and immediatly of Christ or indirectly per accidens and by a certaine consequence as if otherwise Christ should not haue sufficiently prouided for the necessitie of the Church nor furnished the Pope with abilitie to discharge his duetie considering that without these deuises so much insisted vpon though with very great vncertaintie to the great in dangering of the Popes vniuersall charge ouer all Churches in Spiritualibus Saint Peter and his successors did sufficiently prouide for the necessitie of the Church when the
doeth auow it from his heart that hee doeth abhorre detest and abiure as impious and hereticall this damnable doctrine and position that Princes which be excommunicated by the Pope or are depriued by him of their kingdomes by this pretended authoritie in Temporalibus either directly or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia whether the said authoritie be termed spirituall or temporall or mixt or howsoeuer it is or may be termed may be deposed or murthered by their subiects or any other whatsoeuer notwithstanding any commaundement direction or aduise directly or indirectly giuen to the contrary by any manner of person whosoeuer and notwithstanding any exposition or declaration of the Popes interpretatiue will that if any in zeale by reason either of the said Excommunication or depriuation or of them both wil either aduenture to take vp armes against such a King or to lay violent hands vpon his person the Pope is bound by his office to approue it because the same did tend to the execution of his Sentence and to the promoting of the end he aimed at 82 That hee also doeth beleeue and is in his conscience resolued that neither the Pope nor any person whatsoeuer hath power to absolue him of this oath or of any part thereof whereby he might truely thinke himselfe discharged in any one point of his Allegeance before by him professed and that therefore hee doeth renounce all Pardons and Dispensations in that behalfe 83 And that lastly hee doeth plainely and sincerely acknowledge as in the presence of God and vpon his Allegeance to his Maiestie that what hee this Examinate hath deliuered and is here set downe in this his Examination the same doeth conteine his true iudgement so farre as his learning reacheth without any equiuocation or mentall cuasion or secret reseruation whatsoeuer and is to be vnderstood according to the expresse words as they are set downe and according to the plaine and commonsense and vnderstanding of the same 84 But heere againe it being obiected that albeit he this Examinate hath very well discharged his duetie as well in his expressing his iudgment in the points aboue propounded vnto him that of the Popes Supremacie in causes Ecclesiastical some other touches of certaine things not appertaining to the oath of Alleageance excepted yet forasmuch as the same doeth depend vpon this vncertaintie whether the Pope will define it to bee a matter of faith and accordingly then to be acknowledged by Popish Catholickes that hee may depose Kings and deale with their subiects as is aforesaid and that thereby his Maiestie and all other Christian Kings and Princes as their occasions fall out shall still rest vnassured of the loyaltie of their subiects and of their owne safeties it was necessary that hee this Examinate should also cleare this point for answere whereunto he saith as followeth 85 That hee did not imagine any such matter would haue bene propounded vnto him because it is well knowen to all that bee learned that no man can iudge before hand de futuris contingentibus of future contingents and therefore he desired that he might be forborne 86 But hereunto this reply being made that although there can bee no certaine iudgement de futur is contingentibus soil contingant vel non contingant whether they shall happen or not happen yet of a certaine and determinate thing propounded what might be thought of it if it should happen there may before hand a direct and sure iudgement be giuen For example it is futurum contingens whether euer any King and Parliament in ENGLAND will make a Statute to restore to the Pope his Supremacie here as fully as euer he had it and yet it is not to bee doubted but that he this Examinat if he were now asked whether in his iudgement such a Statute were lawfull and iust or not and might accordingly be put in execution he would out of question answere before hand affirmatiuely and euen so it being told this Examinate that hee might doe in the case propounded after some deliberation thus he answered viz 87 That as hee writ vnto the Cardinall although it should be determined to be a point fidei formaliter of faith formally that the Pope might deale with Princes as is aforesaid and were accordingly so to be receiued in thesi in the generall position yet this question propounded in hypothesi by way of particular supposition an Papa habeat potestatem deponendi Regem nostrum rebus in co statu quo nunc sunt permanentibus apud nos whether the Pope haue power to depose our King matters continuing with vs in the state wherein now they are he this Examinat saith now as he writ then that the determination of this question touching his Maiestie should only be of that which is fidei materialiter of faith materially quia esset determinatio de quaestione quae in rebus creditis accidit proinde non diceretur determinatio de fide sed de tali materiâ because it should bee the decision of a question which hapneth about things beleeued and therefore is not to be said to bee a determination touching Faith but concerning such or such a matter wherein because as hee hath before obserued out of Syluester and Couarruuias the Pope may be deceiued hee this Examinat saith that in his iudgment let them define at Rome what they list in this matter yet if the same should be offered to be practised against his Maiestie it ought not to bee entertained receiued or obeyed by any of his Maiesties subiects the same tending not to edification but to destruction 88 Against this answere such exceptions being taken as are before set downe after some further enforcing of them with many circumstances and repetitions of sundry points by him before acknowledged hee was at the last content further to enlarge himselfe in maner hereafter ensuing affirming viz That in his iudgement the Pope will neuer determine it to bee a matter of faith for Catholickes to beleeue that hee hath authoritie to depose Emperours or Kings to absolue their subiects from their Allegeance and to authorize them either to disobey them or to beare armes against them because hitherto when it might haue beene better done and with lesse scandall and inconuenience it hath not beene so defined notwithstanding that the Popes themselues in their owne persons and the citie of Rome it selfe haue bene in greater danger and perill then they now are and this Examinatis fully resolued that the present Pope and the Cardinals his assistants are as graue wise and prouident now to foresee what euill and inconuenience might grow to the Church by such a resolution as euer any of their predecessors were in times past 89 That he is fully perswaded that as it doth tend to the expressing of the supereminent excellencie of the iustice of God to say that he cannot doe any thing that is vniust and of the great honour and dignitie of Kings and Princes to affirme of them
the vineyard of the Lord had taken deepe roote and that the spouse of Christ which at the first had no papps became to bee of mature age and that all that while for the space of 350. yeeres the said power did lie in Martyrdome and blood vntill afterwards the foundations were laid and the walles were built vp and that then the same began to shew it selfe in blessed Syluester and his Successors But withall he addeth that the vse and exercise of the Popes said actuall and casuall authoritie and iurisdiction is not great in the Pope That if we consider the Idem ibidem pag. 89. Popes care of spirituall things he is so occupied in them being heauenly matters as hee can scarcely intende to those things that bee terrestriall That in Kings and Emperours the vse of temporall power is more frequent because the matters that they deale in are not heauenly but terrene Mary saith hee their swords notwithstanding Idem ibidem pag. 98. and all their temporall power are at the Popes commaundement in that hee is the Lord of the whole Christian world to whose iurisdiction all other iurisdictions are subiect and referred as to the first fountaine from whence they flow And in another place likewise he saith that the preseruation both of particular and vniuersall iustice belonging to the Popes Idem ibidem pag. 105. 106. office for asmuch as he cannot be attentiue to such terrene affaires lest applying himselfe to these small matters hee might leaue celestiall things vndone hee dealeth in such sort with Emperours Kings and Princes for his owne assistance as Iethro taught Moses who following Iethroes counsell did appoint Iudges to deale in temporall causes that hee might more freely apply himselfe to those that were spirituall he the said Pope hauing notwithstanding in himselfe power and authoritie to correct the errours of such Emperours Idem ibidem pag. 98. Kings and Princes and to iudge of their excesses as there should bee cause For saieth Mancinus further though Princes are free within their proper territories Idem ibidem pag. 120. and may freely vse their power and authoritie yet they haue their boundes and limits which they must not passe and there is a meane in the vse of it which they are bound to obserue but if they exceede their measure and passe their line then it is the part of Christs vicar in whom is the top of both authorities to take knowledge of their proceedings and to remedie them and that in matters of greater difficultie and weight Appeales doe therefore lie from all Kings to the Pope as when mens rights are ouerthrowen they are to flie to the supreme Iudge whose office is to iudge such causes 109 So as this Examinate saith hauing thus deliuered truely the effect and substance of Mancinus iudgement touching this point set downe by him the said Mancinus at large and with great varietie according to their opinions who concurre with him concerning the Popes inherent authority and iurisdiction ouer all the world directly in causes temporall it doth appeare what his and their conceit is of the casuall practise of that great authority And he confesseth it to be this in effect viz that Emperours and Kings holding their authority as from the Pope they are to him as Moses his Iudges and rulers were vnto him and that therefore when it happeneth or falleth out casualiter that the Pope holdeth it fit to depose any King from his Crowne and kingdome to absolue his subiects from their Allegeance to authorize them to beare armes against their King so deposed to command them vnder paine of Excommunication so to doe in that being deposed he is no more their King or otherwise when hee holdeth it conuenient to correct and punish any other Kings for dealing vniustly with their subiects vpon complaint made vnto him as vnto the chiefe Iudge if they persist in so doing he may so deale and proceede with them euen as Moses might haue done vpon any complaint brought vnto him in some such like cases against any of his Iudges and rulers deputed vnder him And furthermore that if a King so deposed by the Pope will needs keepe his Kingdome still if his subiects notwithstanding the Popes commandement to the contrary will not be induced to beare armes against him nor to withdraw their obedience from him but will still honour obey and serue him or if other Kings will so far contemne the Popes authority when vpon Appeales made vnto him they doe persist in oppressing their subiects so as the Pope is driuen vpon their contempts to take the like course with them then in those and the like cases saith Mancinus and others the Pope being the highest Mancinus ibidem pag. 232. Bishop and Christs vicar and glistering with regall dignitie may without all doubt if hee will moue armes proclaime warre and excite men himselfe to battaile and it is also generally by these men held that the Emperour and all other Christian Kings and Princes are at the Popes commandement and beck to draw their swords and to vse all their forces for the putting in execution of his said Sentences to the suppressing of the said obstinate Kings and the transferring of their kingdomes vnto some others 110 Here this Examinate being asked what difference there was betwixt these mens opinions who hold that the Pope may thus proceede with Kings and princes by vertue of his authoritie in all temporall causes directly but casualiter that is in such cases as are aboue expressed when casually they happen and the other side who although they deny that the Pope hath any such authoritie directly yet they affirme as it hath beene oft aboue mentioned that he hath power to depose kings and to transferre kingdomes in ordine ad spiritualia indirectly per accidens by a certaine consequence incidently secundùm quid secundariò per consecutionem accessorily and casualiter that is when such occasions are offered hee this Examinate answoreth that he must needes confesse there is no difference at all betwixt them in respect of their iudgement touching the lawfulnesse of the Popes authoritie to proceede casualiter as is aforesaid with such obstinate princes but onely this that the one part supposeth this authoritie to be inherent in the Pope as hee is Christs vicar which the other denyeth but saith notwithstanding that he hath it though not inherent in him yet indirectly by a consequence because all kings and princes when they are baptized doe promise and vndertake inclusiuè that they will for euer maintaine the Church be obedient to the Pope and at his commandement for the suppressing of all such persons whosoeuer as shall oppose themselues against the Catholicke faith Insomuch that Cardinall Bellarmine Bell. de Rom. Pon. lib. 5. cap. 6. euen in the same Chap. where hee remembreth the Popes dealing in temporall causes incidenter cà sualiter incidently and casually although he acknowledgeth that the Pope as hee is Pope
the king doth acknowledge no superious in temporall causes hee might lawfully in that matter without any mans preiudice submit himselfe to our iurisdiction wherein as some hold he might by his owne authority not as a father with his children but as a prince with his subiects haue himselfe dispensed but you are knowen to be subiect vnto others and therefore without some iniury peraduenture vnto them except they should yeeld their assent you cannot in this case submit your selfe vnto vs And this is that casuall authoritie this Examinate saith which he attributeth to the Pope out of S. Peters patrimony in other Princes kingdomes for his dealing in those causes that are temporall and doe not otherwise belong vnto him to intermedle with as he is Christs Vicar but as they are compromitted and referred vnto him 114 It was here againe required of this Examinate that he should a little further open his mind in this point whether in his iudgement the subjects of any Christian king may lawfully referre any temporall causes especially such as either concerne the commonwealth or their king vnto the Popes determination without the kings consent because it is held by many as it hath been formerly touched in part out of Mancinus that they may when otherwise they can receiue no such ordinary course of Iustice as they thinke they ought or when they account it most expedient for the Commonwealth To which purpose sundry examples are alledged and amongst them this particularly of the proceeding once in France with their king Hildericus king of France reigning as it was thought vnprofitably and Pepinus in his gouernement vnder him greatly contenting the Realme the chiefe of the Nobilitie in their desire to remoue him and aduance Pepinus vnto his place being not ignorant that if they could procure the Pope who was then in these Westerne parts of great reputation to concurre therein with them it would greatly surther their designement and the better content both the people and the Clergie did send an Embassage 1◠Maior disi 24. quaest 2. 〈…〉 to Pope Zachary then Bishop of Rome desiring to know of him an ille deberet regnare qui otio torpebat an ille qui aestum dieiportabat whether he ought to reigne who was altogether idle or he that did indure the heate of the day To whom the Pope answered quòd posterior regnare deberet that the later ought to reigne Whereupon the Nobilitie deposed Hilderick and created Pepinus their king 115 Now forasmuch as this example is commonly vsed for an argument that the Pope may thus deale casually in temporalibus and that thereupon it is ordinarily concluded that the Pope by such a casualty may depose kings and set vp others in their roomes if hee this Examinate should meane that such a reference or compromitting of a cause to the Pope by one side without the assent of the other as it is not likely that Hildericus was euer willing to commit to the Pope his title to the kingdom whether he should remaine king or one of his subiects should get it from him were a lawfull occasion offered for the Pope to deale casually in temporalibus as an Arbitrator that which hee hath before said of his meaning how the Pope might deale in such like causes casualiter doeth crosse that which formerly he hath deliuered or rather indeed is flatly repugnant vnto it And therefore he this Examinate was vrged to explicate this difficulty 116 Whereunto for answere he saith That in his opinion this was a needelesse doubt in that his words before were plaine when he deliuered the answere of Innocentius to the Gentleman of Montpeliar hee this Examinate hauing neuer heard of such a kind of compromitting a cause to any by one part without the consent of the other and that therefore he holdeth it as vnlawfull for the Pope in such a kind of reference as aboue is specified without the Kings consent to take any temporall cause into his hands to be ordered by him as it was for him to haue made legitimate the children of the said gentleman as is before mentioned which Innocentius acknowledged he might not doe And as touching the example alledged for the deposing of Hildericus this Examinate further saith that he concurreth in iudgement with Iohannes de Parisijs Io. Maior Iacobus Almain Adam Blackwood with diuers others Blackwood apol pag. 201. 202. who writing of that fact say that it was not lawfull that the Pope did yeeld to an iniury and was not ignorant the example to be pernicious so to let slacke the raines to the people for the changing of Scepters and to preferre a stranger with the iniury of their own lawfull king that this fact being singular ought to obtaine no force of a law that wee are to liue by lawes and not by examples that we ought not so much to regard what is done as what ought to be done 117 That the Nobility of France sent to the Pope because the Vniuersitie of Paris did not then Ioh. Maior in lib. 4. sent dist 24. apud Gersonem flourish insinuating that if it had they had gone no further but relied vpon their iudgement that where it is said that Zacharie did depose Hildericke it is thus to be vnderstood viz that he was aliqua causa motiua a certaine mouing cause why the Noblemen of France deposed him that from such particulars quae ex deuotion ad Ecclesiam non debito juris fiunt which are done of deuotion to the Church and not by any right of law nothing is to be drawen in consequence as neither from many other examples where Emperours did chuse the Bishops of Rome and likewise that some Bishops of Rome had beene deposed by Emperors and as the Ecclesiasticall historie reciteth many Bishops did referre their complaints to Constantine ex quibus nullum potest sumi argumentum from which examples no argument can be drawen 118 That the Canon Alius dist 15. q. 6. which Iacobus Almain de potest Eccles laicâ quaest 2. cap. 8. Magna glossa Canon Alius dist 15. q. 6. saith that Pope Zacharie deposed the king of France and placed Pepin the father of Charles in his roome is thus to bee vnderstood Zacharias deposuit Regem id est deponentibus consensit Zacharie deposed the king that is gaue his consent to them that deposed him that then there was no Vniuersity at Paris the same beeing afterwardes erected in the dayes of Charles the great and that thereupon there being few learned men in France they had recourse to the Pope sic deposuit id est consensit vti possent deponere sic non deposuit authoritatiuè that so he deposed Hildericke that is he gaue his consent that the Nobilitie of France might depose him and that the Pope did not depose him by any authority 119 That the Pope did neuer depose the king of Ioh. de Parisiis de potest regia
Papali cap. 13. France except that which Zacharie did in the deposition of Hildericus may bee expounded deposuit id est deponentibus consensit sicut exponit glossa Zacharie deposed the King that is hee gaue his consent to those that did depose him as the glosse doth expound it that from such singular facts of deuotion to the Church or to the person or of fauour or for some other cause and not in right of law arguments may not bee made that whereas it is read in histories that Boniface obtained of Phocas the Emperour that the Church of Rome should be the head of all Churches because the Church of Constantinople did write herselfe so it might bee collected by such a like argument that it appertained to the Emperour to transferre the primacie of one Church to another as likewise whereas Isidore saith that Constantine the Emperour did decree that the See of Rome should hold the principalitie ouer the foure chiefe Sees Antioch Alexandria Constantinople and Hierusalem God forbid that thereupon we should say that the Church of Rome hath her Primacy ouer Churches and the disposition of them from Emperours So as this Examinate saith that which was done as touching the deposition of Hildericke the king of France doth no way alter his opinion before shewed touching the Popes authoritie in temporalibus casualiter when they are lawfully referred vnto him as in the Sect. 113. he hath specified 120 Here this Examinate was put in minde of certaine wordes of his in the said 113. Section where saying that the Pope as hee is Christs vicar could not otherwise deale in temporalibus casualiter then as here he hath said he seemeth to insinuate that in some other respect hee might deale in temporall causes with Kings for the deposing of them and proceeding with their subiects as hath bene before diuers times mentioned And the rather it so seemeth in that he hauing before cited out of Mancinus how the Pope hath authoritie to proclaime warre and so become a man at armes did let that point passe him without answere vnto it 121 For satisfaction whereof this Examinate saith that in his iudgement it is as lawfull for the Pope to make warre within his own Territories which he holdeth as a Temporall Prince when he is driuen thereunto through the disobedience of his subiects or in their defence against other Princes as it is for any King or ciuill State so to doe vpon such or the like occasions and that Iacobus Gretzerus saith well if this Examinate doth rightly vnderstand him to this purpose and to the iustification of all in effect which this Examinate hath set downe throughout the whole course of this his Examination touching his deniall of the Popes authoritie either directly as he is Pope or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia as he is Summus Princeps spiritualis the Supreme spirituall Prince to depose Kings and release their subiects from the oathes of their allegeance c. where he writeth in this sort Cogit Pontifex Romanus poenis externis spiritualibus vt Excommunicatione Gretzerus defens controuers Bellar. colum 1404. item poenis externis temporalibus corporalibus quà ipse est Princeps politicus quà Principum politicorum opem implorare potest vt haereticorum petulantiam licentiam poenis temporalibus compescant that is That the Bishop of Rome hath authoritie to compell men by outward spirituall punishments as by Excommunication and also by outward temporal and corporal punishments as he is himselfe a ciuill Prince and as he may implore the assistance of other ciuill Princes that they may represse by temporall punishments the wantonnesse and liberty of heretikes 122 And this Examinate also further saieth that for ought he can Iudge whereas some exceptions were taken to the Popes sending of certaine small forces into Ireland about the yeere 1580. to assist the Earle of Desmond Cardinall Allen in answere of them doth politically iustifie that his fact where hee writeth in this manner The chiefe Bishops of Christs Church our supreme Pastors in earth by Gods prouidence and by the graunts of Card. Allens answere to the English Iustice pag. 144. our first most Christian Emperours and Kings and by the humble and zealous deuotion of the faithfull Princes and people afterwards haue their temporall states dominions and patrimonies whereby they most iustly holde and possesse the same and are thereby lawfull Princes temporall and may most rightfully by their Soueraigntie make warres in their owne and other mens iust quarrell as occasion shall vrge them there vnto 123 By reason of diuers particulars deliuered by this Examinate in this his answere to the last doubt propounded vnto him it was first demanded of him whether in his iudgement the Pope hath authority to command any king being held for a Catholicke to take armes against any his neighbour kings deemed by him for heretickes for the suppressing of them by temporall coertions when the Pope shall iudge it fit because it might seeme very strange for any man to conceiue that Christ euer gaue to S. Peter any iurisdiction authoritie or power in fauour of religion to set kings together by the eares It might haue some probabilitie that if a king who disalloweth of the Popes supremacie and of many other corrupt points of popish doctrine should send his forces into any other temporall princes dominions to make warres of purpose to abolish the Popes authoritie and plant there the reformed religion by him professed then in this case the Pope might sollicite some other kings adioyning to oppose them selues make warres against him But to imagine that when a King proceedeth no further then to order matters in his owne kingdome by the aduise of the States thereof both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall as it shal be iudged by him and them most expedient any Bishop or Spirituall person whosoeuer may take vpon him to proclaime or excite warre and thrust other kings to assaile him by force in his owne kingdome and countrey euery such conceit wanteth authoritie in the new Testament and hath no example for many yeeres in the purest and best times of the Church and besides it is repugnant to that which this Examinate hath before deliuered For kingdomes being neither founded vpon faith nor grace how can they be shaken vnder pretence that either of them is impugned Christianitie may well be thought to binde a king who reckoneth himselfe subiect to the Bishop of Rome in spirituall causes in them to submit him selfe vnto him but to command him to make warre and thereby hazard peraduenture his owne kingdome or spend the blood either of his owne Subiects or of the subiects of any other Christian King when the Pope thinketh good is a very bloodie and an vnchristian opinion 124 Vnto this question and the parts thereof this Examinate saith that he beleeueth that all Christian Kings and Princes are bound to doe what they can for the maintenance of the Catholicke faith
necessary for preseruation of the Realme from vniust vsurpation of Tyrants and auoyding other inconueniences which they had proued and might easily fall againe by the disorder of some wicked king Vnto this report as it seemeth and to some other idle conceits a Polonian of late hauing relation and making mention of the purpose aforesaid of king Henry the second and of king Iohn he writeth this Examinate saith in this sort speaking of the Parliament and of the oath of Allegeance Illud impiè legislatores per iusiurandum extorquent à Stanisla Cristanouie Examen Cathol fol. 34. Catholicis vt negent posse à Pontifice Regem deponi de ipsius Regnis ditionibus disponi Si enim honorariè piè tributarium regnum Pontifici quare disponere quare refractarium inobedientem Principem deponere nequit That is The law-makers doe impiously by an oath extort this from the Catholicks to denie that the King may be deposed by the Pope and his kingdomes and countries by him disposed of For if by an honourable and pious graunt the kingdome haue become tributarie to the Pope why may he not dispose of it why may he not depose the Prince being refractarie and disobedient 19 Concerning the which aforesaid assertions touching both the said kings this Examinate affirmeth they are vntrue Henry the second neuer made any such accord with Alexander the 3. as is aboue mentioned for ought this Examinate could euer reade in any Chronicle of credite He sware to Pope Alexander that he for his owne part would not depart from him or his successors Ro. Houeden Annal fol. 303 quamdiu ipsum sicut Regem Catholicum habuerint so long as they should entreate him as a Catholicke king And touching king Iohn inasmuch as his fact that way is of some more probabilitie but of as little trueth and that from the said reportes of them both Stanislaus Cristanouic doth inferre that the Pope may depose his Maiestie being but a tributarie King vnto him he this Examinate by taking his oath that the Pope had no Imperiall or Ciuill power ouer the king to depose him did thereby discharge his conscience for the iustifying of a trueth against the said false reports that of king Iohn being as vntrue as the former Which this Examinate saith he doth the more boldly affirme because he hath one of no small account in that he died for the Popes supremacie to take his part therein besides some other rules of regalitie in that behalfe Thus Sir Thomas More writeth against the author of the Beggers Supplication in king Henry the 8. time If he the authour of that supplication Sir Tho. More supplic of soules pag. 296. say as indeede some writers say that king Iohn made England and Ireland tributarie to the Pope and the See Apostolike by the grant of a thousand markes wee dare surely say againe that it is vntrue and that all Rome neither can shew such a grant nor neuer could and if they could it were nothing worth For neuer could any king of England giue away the Realme to the Pope or make the land tributarie though he would And this to bee agreeable to this Examinates owne iudgement hee doeth acknowledge as he saith with all his heart hoping that the same shal no way preiudice his constant resolution as touching the Popes supremacie nor offend any that loueth the Crowne and State of England 20 And as concerning his relying vpon his Maiesties words in the sense approoued by the Magistrate when he this Examinate tooke the oath of Allegeance and insinuating to Cardinall Bellarmine that the summe of it was accordingly Summum Pontificem non habere Imperialem ciuilem potestatem ad libitum ex suo appetitu deponendi Regem nostrum that the Pope hath not an Imperiall and ciuill power to depose our King when he pleaseth and at his owne appetite he hopeth likewise to giue therein some reasonable contentment For which purpose he saith it is to be obserued that there is an opinion long since broached by the Canonists which hath begun of later times to be more stiffely and with greater heate prosecuted and maintained then heretofore concerning the Popes authoritie in causes temporall the authors whereof doe with great confidence affirme that the Pope is as directly Lord of the whole world in temporalibus in temporalties as hee is the head of the vniuersall Church in spiritualibus in matters spirituall and that hee hath directly as souereigne an authoritie in respect of such his worldly dominion ouer all Emperours Kings and Princes to dispose of them and their kingdomes when occasion shall require as hee hath in regard of his spirituall supremacie ouer all Bishops and Cleargie men to aduance and depriue them when hee thinketh it conuenient and that they deserue it The chiefe patrons of this opinion are noted by Cardinall Bellarmine to be these Augustinus Triumphus Aluarus 〈…〉 Pelagius Hostiensis Panormitane and Syluester to whom this Examinate doeth adde Henricus Gandauensis Redericus Sancius Alexander Alensis Celsus Mancinus Tho. Bozius Franciscus Bozius Isidorus Mosconius Card Baronius Laelius Zecchus and Alexander Carerius who nameth diuers others as principall defenders of that opinion and 〈…〉 is himselfe so violent therein as hee doeth in effect anathematize all that do oppose themselues against it not sparing Cardinall Bellarmine himselfe against whom forasmuch as his drift is principally throughout his whole booke hee was much to blame this Examinate thinketh to entitle it to be written aduersus impios politicos nostritemporis haereticos against the wicked politickes hereticks of our time With this Carerius 〈…〉 such as are on that side doe resolutely concurre insomuch as they doubt not this Examinat consesseth to renew againe the long disliked and impugned assertions of the old Canonists and to publish them now vnto the world more eagerly then heretofore as aboue he hath touched for sound and Catholicke doctrine they saying 21 That Dauid did foretell that the Priesthood of 〈…〉 Anno 57. pag. 432. Christ should be according to the order of Melchisedech That when Christ being a King and a Priest receiued all iudgement of the Father that is most full iudiciall power hee ioyning the same with his priesthood did institute in the Church a Regall priesthood Bar. Ibidem pag. 433. translating in suos that is to S. Peter and his successours all the power hee had of his father That Franc Bezius de temporall Ecclesiae Monarchia in praesat ad Clemen S. except there should bee one supreme Monarch in the Church in all things the vnitie of the Church could not be preserued for seeing the Church by diuine institution doth consist of a Kingdome and a Priesthood is it were otherwise there should bee in the same absolutely one Monarch of the Kingdome and another of the Priesthood That if for the auoiding of the dissensions about sacred causes one supreme head is appointed
Blakwell to frame his owne answeres according to his owne minde to offer vnto his further consideration sundry other speeches of his said authors and some others of the like authoritie the same being as pertinent to his purpose as the former by himselfe alledged where they say as followeth 27 That the supreme Iurisdiction temporall Franc. Bozius de temporali Ecclesiae Monarchia lib. 1. cap. 3. fol. 52. Idem lib. 1. cap. 7. fol. 98. throughout all the world doeth belong to S. Peters successors so as one and the same is the Hierarch and Monarch in all things That Christ left the Church to be gouerned by the best forme of gouernment but the best forme of gouernment is the absolute Monarchie euen in all temporall things therefore Christ left his Church so to be gouerned That the keyes of heauen Idem lib. 2. cap. 14. Idem lib. 3. cap. 1 fol. 394. were giuen to Peter therfore of all the earth That the right of dominion and prelation of infidels may iustly by the sentence and ordination of the Church be taken away because Infidels by reason of their infidelitie do deserue to lose their power ouer the faithfull That the Church hath receiued that power ouer Idem ibidem cap. 14 fol. 530. nations which Christ according to his humane nature receiued of the Father but Christ receiued absolutely of the Father all power in temporalibus therefore the Church likewise receiued it by participation of his fulnesse That the supreme power coactiue in all Idem ibidem cap. 16. fol. 537. temporall things belongeth to Ecclesiasticall persons by the diuine lawe reuealed and expressed in the Scriptures That kings anointed with holy oyle are called Idem fol. 676. Idem lib. 5. fol. 823. as vassals of the Church That by reason of the supreme Monarchie in all things temporall lawes may be made by the Church and kingdomes taken away for iust causes 28. That kings and principall Seculars are not immediatly of GOD but by the interposition of holy Tho. Bâ—zius de iure status lib. 1. cap. 6. fol. 37. Idem ibidem fol 52. Idem lib. 3. cap. 5. fol. 277. Church and of her chiefe Bishops That warlike and militarie compulsiue power is giuen to the Church ouer kings and princes That if it be found sometimes that certaine Emperours haue giuen some temporalties to the highest Bishops as Constantine gaue vnto Syluester this is not to bee vnderstood that they gaue any thing which was their owne but restored that which was vntustly and tyrannically taken from the said Bishops That Christ committed to Saint Peter the carrier of the keyes of eternall life the right both of the Idem lib. 4. cap. 1. fol. 319. terrene and celestiall Empire as Pope Nicholas saith from whom we haue it that he is without doubt an hereticke that taketh away the rights of the terrene and celestiall Empire committed by Christ to the Church of Rome and saith it is lawfull so to doe and for that he shall be an hereticke in such his assertions 29 That the Pope is called vniuersall iudge king Isidor Mosc de maiest militant Ecclesiae pag. 27. Idem pag 77. Idem pag. 95. of kings and lord of lords That the Pope is consecrated as the great Priest and crowned as a king because he hath both powers That the Pope doeth vse his power after two sorts either absolutely or ordinarily absolutely when he derogateth from lawes in abolishing them ordinarily when he vseth lawes Whence this rule is giuen that the Pope vseth the Counsell of his Cardinalles when he will liue by his lawes But if hee will vse the plenitude of his power then he disposeth of matters without the Counsell of his Cardinals sith his power is of God and not of the Colledge of Cardinals That not onely all faithfull people but likewise Infidels Idem pag. 96 and euery naturall creature is subiect to the commandement of the Pope he is to bee worshipped of all men and for this cause he receiueth of all the faithfull adorations prostrations and kissings of his feete That Idem pag. 92. vnto the Pope as to the Pastor of the Church and the Bishop of that holy See and by reason of his Dominion and excellencie is giuen adoratio duliae the worship giuen to Images and Saints That the Bishop of Idem pag. 99. Rome in signe of his Empire and kingdome doth vse vpon his head a Regall Diademe and in token of his Priesthood and Pontificall Maiestie a Miter That Idem pag. 677. Emperors and Kings may bee compelled to keepe their oathes taken in their coronation and confirmation in that by vertue of such an oath they are made the Popes subiects 30 That by the law of God and nature the Priesthood doeth ouer-top the Empire and both Iurisdictions Henrie Gandauen apud Carer pag. 128 ouer spiritualties and temporalties and the immediate execution likewise of them both depend vpon the Priesthood both by the law of God and of nature That Antoninus apud Carer pag. 130. they which say the Pope hath dominion ouer all the world in spiritualties but not in temporalties are like the Counsellers of the king of Syria who said The Gods of the mountaines are their gods and therefore they haue ouercome vs let vs fight with them in the plaines and valleyes where their gods dwel not and we shall preuaile against them 3. Reg. 20. That the sonne of God hath declared the altitude of the Ecclesiasticall power being as it Aug. Triumph apud Carer pag. 130. were founded vpon a rocke to be aboue all principalitie and power that vnto it all knees should bee bowed of things in heauen in earth and vnder the earth or in Idem ibidem pag. 132. hell That secular powers were not necessarie but that Princes might performe that through terrour of discipline which the Priest cannot effect by power of doctrine and that therefore if the Church could punish euill men Imperiall and secular principalitie were not necessarie the same being included potentially in the principalitie Apostolicall 31 That there are diuers powers of men giuen by Carer de pot Rom. Pont. pag. 142. God and diuerse authorities all which doe depend vpon the highest authoritie meaning the Popes and thence as the starres from the sunne doe receiue their light That the Imperiall power concerning the administration Idem pag. 145. of temporall matters doeth proceed from the Pontificall power as the light of the Moone doeth from the light of the sunne That as God is the supreme Idem pag. 150. Monarch of the world and the gouernour of all temporalties productiuè gubernatiuè by producing and gouerning them though of himselfe he be not temporall and of the world so it must be confessed that although his Vicar the Pope hath originally and of himselfe the dominion ouer all temporalties yet he hath it not by immediate execution but doeth by his
creatures as God the Father is but this kingdome is eternall and diuine and doeth not take away the Dominions of men nor agreeth to the Pope that Christ as man is the spirituall king of all men and hath a most ample spirituall power ouer all as well faithfull as Infidels that this spirituall kingdome of Christ after the day of Iudgment shall be sensible and manifest and that the glory of this kingdome was begun in Christ our head quando à mortuis resurrexit when hee arose from the dead that this Spirituall kingdome is not a temporall Kingdome such as kings enioy nor can be communicated to the Pope because this spirituall kingdome presupposeth the resurrection that Christ as man might if he would or had thought it expedient haue taken to himselfe a Regall authoritie but hee would not and therefore did neither receiue nor had either the execution or authoritie or power of any temporall Dominion or kingdome that all kingdomes are gotten either by succession or by election or by the sword or by gift but Christ had no temporall kingdome by any of these meanes that Christ did neuer execute any Regall authoritie in the world that Christ came to minister not to be ministred vnto to bee iudged not to iudge that hee should haue receiued such a Regall authoritie in vaine hauing neuer any vse of it it being a vaine power quae nunquam redigitur in actum which is neuer brought into act that Christ did not cast out of the Temple the buyers and sellers of Oxen and Sheepe by any Pontificall or Regall power sed more Prophetarum zelo quodam diuino but after the maner of the Prophets by a certaine diuine zeale that kingly authoritie was not necessarie for Christ nor profitable but plainely superfluous and vnprofitable that the ende of Christs comming into the world was the redemption of mankind to which end spirituall power was onely necessarie and not temporall that that power meerely temporall was vnprofitable for Christ is apparant because he was to perswade men to contempt of glory delicacies riches and of all temporall things wherewith kings of this world doe most abound that all the places almost of Scriptures which speake of the kingdome of Christ must needes be vnderstood of his spirituall and eternall kingdome but temporall kingdomes are not eternall that Christ was not a temporall king of the Iewes but a spirituall king of the Church that although the Pope is said to haue that office which Christ himselfe enioyed when he was among men yet those offices cannot be ascribed to the Pope which Christ had as God or as hee is now an immortall and glorious man but onely those and yet not all of them which he held as a mortall man that Christ because he was God and man habuit quandam potestatē quam dicunt excellentiae had a certaine power of excellencie as they call it whereby he gouerned both faithfull and Infidels whereas hee committed his sheepe onely that is the faithfull to the Pope that Christ as hee was man had power to institute Sacraments and worke miracles by his owne authoritie which power the Pope hath not that Christ could absolue men from their sinnes without Sacraments which the Pope cannot doe that Christ doeth communicate that power to the Pope which might bee communicated puro homini to a meere man which was necessarie for the gouernement of the faithfull so as without impediment they might obtaine the kingdome of heauen 56 That these places and authorities Data est Idem ibidem cap. 5. mihi omnis potestas in coelo in terrâ Matth. 8. All power is giuen vnto me in heauen and earth Christus beato Petro vitae aeternae clauigero terreni simul coelestis Imperij iura commisit Christ committed to S. Peter the key-carier of eternall life the Nicol. Pap. epist. ad Michael rights both of the terrene and celestiall Empire Ecce duo gladij Luc. 22. Beholde here are two swords doe no way preiudice the former doctrine that the Popes power to decide temporall suits and questions Can. caus 11. quaest 1. Quicunque litem was granted vnto him by Theodosius ex pietate non ex debito of deuotion not of duetie that Christ for the preseruation of humilitie ordeined that the Pope should haue need of the Emperours defence in temporalibus Idem ibidem cap. 10. and that the Emperour also should need the Popes direction in spiritualibus and that therefore he left the Empire to Tiberius and bestowed the Popedome vpon Peter 57 That as touching the temporall principalities Idem ibidem cap. 9. which they haue indeed the same were giuen to the Bishops of Rome and other Bishops by godly men such as Constantine Charles the great and Lewis his sonne were that although it were peraduenture absolutely better that the Bishops of Rome should onely intermeddle with spirituall matters and kings with temporall yet through the malice of time experience teacheth it to be both profitable and necessarie that as in the old Testament the high Priests were long sine Imperio temporali without a temporal gouernment and yet in those last times religion could not haue consisted and bene defended except the high Priests had bin likewise kings as in the time of the Maccabees euen so it hath come to passe with the Church that she who in the beginning did need no temporall principalitie doth now seeme to haue need thereof necessarily 58 All the premisses being in this maner alledged out of Bellarmine in effect word for word by this Examinate it was told him that except he could be content to open and enlarge himselfe further then after this sort forasmuch as Bellarmine notwithstanding all that this Examinate hath repeated out of him for the expressing of his owne iudgement doeth afterward clearely attribute such an indirect powre to the Pope ordine adspiritualia in order to things spirituall as doth giue him authority when he thinketh fit to deale with Emperours and Kings as if all the world were at his commandement directly or indirectly it forceth not for the eradicating of them deposing of them absoluing their subiects from their obedience and plotting against them by his firebrands and Assassins as times and places may serue his turne as it hath beene touched Sect. 35. and 45 hee this Examinate should leaue the matter worse then when hee began and shew most manifestly that when he tooke the oath of Alleageance hee did dally and dissemble aboue measure otherwise then became any dutiful subiect liuing in a case so neerely concerning his Maiesty and the State of the Kingdome 59 Vnto this point this Examinate for his answere saith that he maketh no doubt but that he hath sufficiently so opened his minde and enlarged himselfe as that there can bee no question of his sincericie toward his Maiestie in that hee hath twice Sect. 4. 47. shewed his iudgement touching the practise of the primitiue Church for the
maner the same was giuen vnto him directly saith the one side indirectly saith the other 69 That hee verily supposeth that Cardinall Bellarmine being so worthy and eminent a man for iudgement and learning hath not been so peremptorie in the handling of the two said points whether the Pope hath the said surmised authoritie directly or indirectly but that hee hath left vnto himselfe some sufficient warrant and libertie to varie if there be occasion in the said third point viz. whether Christ gaue to S. Peter any such authoritie at all or no. For whereas hee the said Cardinall doeth plainely affirme that Papa vt Papa ordinariè Temporales Principes deponere Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 6. etiam iustâ de causâ non potest tamen potest regna mutare vni auferre alteri conferre tanquam summus Princeps spiritualis si idnecessarium sit ad animarum salutem That is The Pope cannot as he is Pope though there be iust cause by his ordinarie power depose ciuill Princes yet as he is the supreme spiritual Prince he may translate Kingdomes and take them from one and conferre them vpon another if need so require for the sauing of soules he saith in effect nothing else though couertly but that the Pope hath no power at all to depose Kings For S. Peter neither did nor could transferre any authoritie vnto his Successor but ordinarie for which cause it is commonly held that the rest of the Apostles could not deriue the plenitude of their power to their successors as S. Peter did because the same in them was not ordinary as in S Peter but extraordinary Extraordinaria enim potestas non transit in successorem For an extraordinarie power doeth not descend vnto the successours And at this point this Examinate saith he did aime as farre as he durst presume in his letter to the Cardinall where hauing cited his words abouesaid Non potest Papa vt Papa c. hee writ after this sort Verba iuramenti sunt Papam non habere authoritatem deponendi Regem disponendi de regnis dominijs Maiestatis suae Et communis intellectus apud Magistratum ad nullum alium conceptum propendet quà m ad hunc viz. Papam vt Papa est Nam non potest pertingere ad illum conceptum viz. tanquam summum Principem spiritualem Et cùm proponitur iuramentum suscipiendum illius sensus cognitus à Magistratu restringitur ad ordinariam potestatem Nam qui proponunt iuramentum illi remotissimi sunt à cogitatione extra ordinariae aut indirectae potestatis in Papâ residentis That is The words of the oath are that the Pope hath not authoritie to depose the King and to dispose of his kingdomes and Dominions And the common vnderstanding thereof doth with the Magistrate incline to no other conceite but to this viz. the Pope as he is Pope For it cannot reach vnto that construction viz as he is the supreme spiritual Prince And when the oath is exhibited to be taken the sense thereof apprehended by the Magistrate is restrained vnto an ordinarie power For they that minister the oath are as farre as may bee from the thought of any extraordinarie or indirect power residing in the Pope Besides it is apparant that the Pope is not otherwise the highest spiritual Prince but as hee is Pope so as what he cannot doe as Pope he cannot do as the chiefe spiritual Prince And out of question Carerius hath gotten an aduantage Carer depot. Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 8. of the Cardinall by reason of his said former assertion where he the said Carerius laboureth to prooue that Christi vicarius propriè dicitur Papa Christs vicar is properly called the Pope and doth presse it hardly to this effect that either the Pope is not Christs vicar or else that hee doeth iudge inferiores Potestates vt Papa as he is Pope 70 That the contents of the 39. 66. 68. and 69. Sections of this his Examination being well weighed and considered together with diuers other points by him set downe in the said Examination his answere this Examinat saith againe to the Cardinals letter touching the clause most excepted against doeth reach as farre as by the oath of Allegeance was intended For whereas saith this Examinate if the Pope should haue any authoritie to depose and eradicate Kings he hath it not by vertue of his power to Excommunicate but must haue it of necessitie either as he is supposed to be Dominus in temporalibus directè the Lord of temporalties directly or Dominus in temporalibus indirectè the Lord of temporalties indirectly and that Cardinall Bellarmine is peremptorie that the Pope cannot depose kings by any ordinarie iurisdiction that he hath as he is Pope and Carerius with all his vpholders on the other side are as confident resolute that if the Pope hath not ordinarie authoritie as he is Pope to depose kings he hath no such authoritie at all for as much as what hee this Examinate hath before affirmed how in his opinion as hee saith the Pope hath no authoritie to depose Kings either as he is Dominus in temporalibus directly or indirectly the same is nothing else then what he deposed vnto when he sware that in his conscience the Pope neither of himselfe nor by any authority of the Church or See of Rome or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authoritie to depose the King c. And because also that whether he should haue had authoritie to depose Kings or not he must haue had it by some imperiall or ciuill authoritie either as hee is Dominus in Temporalibus directly or indirectly considering that to be Dominus in temporalibus in any of the said two respects is to haue an imperiall and ciuill authoritie hee this Examinate saith that these points well weighed it is plaine that when hee writ to the Cardinall Summum Pontificem non habere imperialem ciuilem potestatem deponendi Regem nostrum that the Pope hath not an imperiall or ciuill power to depose our King he told the Cardinall in effect as much as if he had said vnto him that the Pope hath no authoritie at all to depose his Maiestie 71 That for the further clearing of his this Examinates relying vpon his Maiesties speeches in Parliament when he tooke the oath of Alleageance and his mentioning of it likewise to the Cardinall he this Examinate saith that except it be thought a fault to answere truely to a matter propounded when he speaketh not all the truth that doeth thereunto appertaine which were a strange conceit the order neither of Schooles nor of any iudiciall Courts in the world binding any man to proceed further in his answere to any question or interrogatorie then the same doeth leade him hee this Examinate seeth not hee sayth what can be subiect to any iust reprehension in his answere to the Cardinals letter the substance thereof being
grounded vpō this conceit that he this Examinate in taking the oath of Allegeance had sworne against the Popes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall 72 For answere vnto which erroneous conceit hee this Examinate sayth that when hee writ that hee tooke the oath in this sense viz. That the Pope had no imperiall and ciuill authority to depose his Maiestie the same is true whether it be attributed to the Pope either directly or indirectly also when he writ That the Pope had no imperiall and ciuill authoritie to depose the King at his pleasure and vpon his appetite the same also is as cuident though the Pope had as great authoritie as they pretend hee hath who say he is Dominus in Temporalibus directly that where hee this Examinate hauing cited diuers authours to this effect that the Pope hath authoritie indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia did thereupon inferre that the Pope could not depose his Maiestie because if he should so doe he should vse that his authoritie non ad spiritualia promouenda sed euertenda not to the furtherance of spiritual matters but to the ouerthrow of them and therupon did adde that he held nothing els therein quà m quod vbig Theologi in suas conclusiones compegerunt then what was generally concluded amongst Diuines he said as he thinketh therein also truly for that the cōmon opinion is that the Pope hath no authoritie ad destructionem to destruction So that albeit he might as he saith haue answered to euery point of the Cardinals letter more throughly yet that which he writ being sufficient to answere it he thought it his best course to write as he did 73 It being heere againe obiected that notwithstanding he this Examinate hath very well declared his iudgement to any mans contentment who is ignorant of the new deceitfull shifts of equiuocation yet because Cardinall Bellarmine holdeth that albeit the Pope cannot depose a king by his ordinary authority directly as hee is Pope he may neuerthelesse mutare Regna vni Bell. de Rom. Pont. lib 5. cap. 6. auferre atque alteri conferre tanquam summus Princeps spiritualis alter Kingdomes and take them from one and giue them to another as he is the highest spirituall Prince as hauing authority in temporalibus in ordine ad spiritualia forasmuch as yet it may well be doubted whether he this Examinate when hee saith that the Pope hath no Imperiall or Ciuill authority nor any power in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depose and eradicate kings to absolue their subiects of their allegeance or to authorize them to beare armes against them hath not this or some such like cuasion viz. that it may truely be affirmed that the Pope hath no such authority to bee termed properly either Imperiall or Ciuill because whether he hath it in temporalibus directly or indirectly yet the authority in it selfe being employed for the deposition of Kings c. is to bee named according to the end wherefore it is so vsed which being for the good of the Church that is spirituall the said authority is not to be called a Temporall but a Spirituall authoritie whereby all which hee this Examinate hath hitherto said may be eluded and made frustrate by this or some such shift viz The Pope hath no Imperiall and Ciuill authority to depose the king that is he cannot depose him by his Ciuill authority as it is Ciuill but as it is Spirituall and againe to the same effect the Pope hath no authority in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depose kings verum est the authoritie which the Pope hath in Temporalibus to depose kings is to be termed Ecclesiasticall and not Temporall as it is truely called when Kings and Princes doe vse it to an end which is Ciuill he this Examinate was vrged to expedite this difficultie with some reasonable plainnesse and perspicuity 74 Whereupon this Examinate being grieued as he professed that nothing would be accepted in satisfaction of his duetie as he feareth said that assuredly there should be no defect in his sinceritie howsoeuer the same might be wrested and therefore to the said obiection briefly answereth That although hee doeth acknowledge that there are some who say that when Boct. Epon Heroie Ecclesiastic quaest pag. 185. the Pope doth inflict Temporall punishments for the better preseruation of his Spirituall authority nullâ dicetur vti Iurisdictione temporali sed merè spirituali cùm totum hoc ad animarum salutem coelesteque regnum referatur he shall not therein be said to vse temporall Iurisdiction but merely Spirituall sith this whole action hath respect to the saluation of soules and to the kingdome of heauen yet because the most that write after this sort doe qualifie their speeches therein with a quasi or dici potest or magis or aliquo modo it is apparant that their meaning is not that such a temporall authority vsed to a spirituall end is in very deede and in trueth a meere spirituall authoritie 75 Besides he this Examinat further addeth that to his vnderstanding the deposing of Kings and the exciting of their subiects to beare armes against him will hardly be raunged amongst spirituall actions In summe therefore this Examinate saith that in his iudgement the Popes spirituall authoritie ought not to be extended beyond the power of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen and of the censures of the Church properly so called and that the Pope hath no authoritie at all in temporalibus either directly or indirectly to depose Kings c. by what name or title soeuer the said power when he putteth it in practise in ordine ad spiritualia in order to things spirituall as he the said Pope supposeth may bee termed whether spirituall or temporall or whether the end hee aimeth at by such his proceedings with any King or Prince be spiritual or supernaturall that is bee pretended to bee vndertaken for the good of the Church and promoting of Christianitie the same in this Examinats iudgement as hee saith being neither Apostolicall nor agreeable to the practise of the most worthy Bishops of Rome in the Primitiue Church and for a long time after nor auaileable in truth to the Catholicke Church but rather hurtfull and great hinderances thereunto 76 And here this Examinate further saieth that the premisses considered viz vpon what vncertainties the maintenance of the Popes authoritie not to excommunicate but to depose Princes doth consist hee confesseth that hee cannot chuse but acknowledge that he much wondreth and in that cogitation is also exceedingly grieued that euer Gregorie the seuenth or any Pope since did in their Excommunications of certaine Emperours Kings and Princes take vpon them in the same to denounce them deposed from their kingdomes to release their Subiects of the othes of their Allegeance and to authorize them no longer to obey their Soueraignes vnder paine of Excommunication as also that many men aswell Emperours Kings Princes and their
subiects haue thereby receiued great detriment especially subiects who haue spent their liues as supposing the cause was iust which they vndertooke this in the meane while being indeed their case that as what they did therein was in truth wicked and rebellious so when either that which they took in hand had not good successe or when afterwards the Pope and such Princes grew to an agreement they were euer for the most part reputed according to their deserts for Rebels and Traitours vnder pretence of some thing or other that was amisse in their proceedings and that therefore he hopeth that in time all Catholickes will hereafter by other mens harmes learne to beware and not bee drawen to any disobedience against their Soueraignes vnder any pretence whatsoeuer 77 The authours of the late most wicked and barbarous treason commonly termed the Gun-powder treason had as this Examinate verily thinketh some intendment to haue aduanced thereby the Catholicke cause for that his Maiestie did still persist in the same course which was held by the late Queene his predecessor or by what other inducements this Examinate knoweth not Howbeit as this was their iust reward here that they were condemned and executed for traitours so doe they worthily reape amongst all discreete Catholikes and wise men abroad in other Countries nothing but shame and infamy to the memorie of their owne names and posteritie which this Examinate wisheth from the bottome of his heart may euer be the successe of all manner of persons whatsoeuer that shall imagine or seeke to contriue any hurt to his Maiestie the Prince or any other of his Highnesse posteritie or to the present state of this kingdome vnder any colour or pretence of conscience religion fauour towards the Bishops of Rome or any thing els whatsoeuer Only this Examinat here addeth that as he doth very well approue that Catesby with his fellowes should bee chronicled for traitours by any or wheresoeuer so he disliketh that the said Cristanouic also who is aboue named should endeuour after a sort to qualifie their offence by casting an vntrue and shamefull scandall vpon this whole nation where after a long discourse to prooue that English men haue from time to time conspited against their kings not for religion but in respect of their owne rebellious nature he concludeth thus with relation to the said Gun-powder traitors Causam tenes lector coniurationum Anglicanarum quarum furorem falsò religioni Stanista Cristanouic exam Cath. fol. 18. Catholicae legislatores tribuunt that is Thus Reader you haue the true cause of the English conspiracies the furie whereof their Law-makers doe falsly impute to the Catholique religion And againe Non ergo Catholicum sed Anglicanum ingenium Reges Ibidem Angliae non sinit securos esse that is It is not therefore the Catholique but the English humor which will not suffer the Kings of England to liue secure For as this Examinate saith what this fellow affirmeth of English men may bee as well iustified of any nation in Christendome if such a rash iudgement might be grounded vpon such like arguments as he hath vsed But here this Examinate remembring his drift wisheth in his heart that it might be neuer forgotten by any Catholiques or other English men whosoeuer what guerdon commendation and infamous renowme they may iustly expect that for any cause whatsoeuer as is aforesaid shall attempt any thing against their Soueraigne 78 Thus farre this Examinate hauing opened his iudgement vpon such occasions as were ministred vnto him he vsed sundry speeches how much it troubled him that either his Maiestie or the State should doubt of his sinceritie and Allegeance and therefore for a conclusion and as it were to adde his seale to all that before he hath said he further affirmeth viz That he doeth truely and sincerely from the bottome of his heart acknowledge professe testifie and declare in his conscience before God and the world that King Iames his Soueraigne lord is iure diuino and by the positiue lawes of this realme lawfull and rightfull King of this realme and of all other his Maiesties Dominions and Countries both de facto and de iure and that it was not lawfull either for his Maiesties Subiects to haue withstood him by force from being their king nor euer can be lawful for them now that he is their king to rise vp against him or seeke by any wayes or meanes to hurt him either in his health or in his regall estate although he denieth the Popes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall and seeketh as he may to suppresse all those that dissent from him in those points of Religion which hee imbraceth and though likewise they his said subiects being either Catholikes or Protestants had sufficient numbers forces and ability so to doe without any scandall to the Catholike cause and without any danger to themselues either in their goods or liues 79 That the Pope iure diuino by the lawe of God neither of himselfe nor by any authority of the Church or See of Rome or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authority either directly or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia whether the said authoritie bee termed spiritual or temporall or mixt or howsoeuer it is or may be termed to depose the King or to dispose any of his Maiesties kingdomes or dominions or to authorize any forreine Prince to inuade or annoy him or his countreys or to discharge any of his subiects of their Allegeance and obedience to his Maiestie or to giue license or leaue to any of them to beare armes raise tumult or to offer any violence or hurt to his Maiesties Roial person State or gouernment or to any of his Maiesties subiects within his Maiesties dominions 80 That he doeth also affirme from his heart that notwithstanding any declaration or Sentence of Excommunication or depriuation made or graunted or to bee made or graunted by the Pope or his successours or by any authoritie deriued or pretended to be deriued from him or his See against the said King his heires or successours or any absolution of the said subiects from their obedience hee will beare faith and true alleageance to his Maiestie his Heires and Successours and him and them will defend to the vttermost of his power against all conspiracies and attempts whatsoeuer which shall bee made against his or their persons their crowne and dignitie by reason or colour of any such sentence or declaration or otherwise by reason or colour of any authoritie or power ascribed to the Pope in temporalibus directly or indirectly in ordine ad spiritualia whether the said authoritie be termed spirituall or temporall or mixt or howsoeuer it is or may be termed and will do his best endeauour to disclose and make knowen vnto his Maiestie his Heires and Successours all treasons and traiterous conspiracies which hee shall know or heare of to bee against him or any of them 81 That furthermore he
that Reges non possunt esse serui Soueraignes cannot bee vassals so it doth no way derogate from the high dignitie and calling of the Bishop of Rome but rather doth greatly aduaunce it to say that because hee cannot erre there are therefore many things which hee cannot doe For example euen in the point questioned as the Pope cannot determine it to be lawfull vnder any pretence whatsoeuer for a man to commit adultery with his neighbours wife no more can he determine it to bee lawfull vnder any pretence whatsoeuer for any of his Maiesties subiects to beare armes against him both of them being against the morall law of God which the Gospel doeth in no one point preiudice Nor as he cannot by any determination or resolution vpon any pretence whatsoeuer make a sonne to bee no sonne during the life of his father no more can he make the borne subiect of any king not to be his subiect so long as the king liueth 90 That he is also altogether of this opinion that whereas the defining of the Popes said vndetermined authoritie to depose kings c. standing vpon this issue that either he hath indeede no such authoritie at all or else that he hath it as being dominus temporalium directè the lorde of temporall things directly or as dominus temporalium in ordine ad spiritualia indirectè the lord of temporall things in an order vnto spirituall things indirectly forasmuch as such a determination must of necessity include the condemnation of the opinion either of Cardinall Bellarmine and of that strong side that taketh his part which may breede some further trouble or of Cardinall Baronius and those that ioine with him being many and increasing dayly more and more with great confidency that they haue the trueth which no doubt will bee found inconuenient considering that their positions doe much more tend to the honour of the Church of Rome then those that are mainteined as peremptorily by the other side he this Examinate is of this opinion as he saith that there will neuer be any such determination as hath bene obiected or at least that it will not bee for many yeeres yet to come whilest there is so strong opposition concerning the manner how and in what sort Christ gaue Saint Peter that authority if he gaue it him at all viz whether directly or indirectly immediatly or by a certaine consequence except it may bee held to be sufficient leauing both the sides mentioned contending amongst themselues without any certaine grounds firme reasons impregnable testimonies either of Scriptures or Ancient Fathers first agreed vpon by the Church and concluded so to define as is imagined which this Examinate is fully assured the Pope and Cardinals being men of such excellencie and wisedome will neuer attempt 91 That although it may peraduenture bee confidently giuen out as it hath bene vntruely by many already that the Pope to haue authoritie to depose kings c. is defined at Rome to be held as a point of faith thereby still to keepe on foote the ancient opinion since Gregorie the seuenths time of the Popes authoritie in that behalfe for the good of Christian kings and Princes that they might be the rather induced to continue in some awe and feare if they did not their dueties belonging to Christianitie yet hee this Examinate thinketh it very necessary that no Catholicke should giue any faith to that report except he may see the same authentically so confirmed and euident as the Canon lawes in a case of such importance doe require which this Examinate is fully perswaded they shall neuer see or that if any such thing should happen to fall out this Examinate is verily perswaded it will not bee a generall resolution touching the Popes authoritie to depose kings c but onely to the point in question nowe amongst Catholickes here in England that it is not lawfull to take the said oath of Allegeance and then this Examinate further saith that the same will bee built vpon this false ground that the oath of Allegeance doeth include the oath against the Popes supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall as he foreseeth already by the Cardinals letter vnto him and by the said Cristanouic who hauing set down the said oth at large writeth thus Quod iuramentum De Primatu Regis in spiritualibus And what oath Of the kings Supremacy in causes spiritual that therfore if any such resolution come authentically as is aforesaid the same as all Catholickes are to iudge of the Popes sinceritie being procured by surreption and false suggestions ad destructionem to destruction no Catholicke is bound to be ouer-ruled by it but the same notwithstanding euery Catholicke may safely and lawfully take the saide oath of Allegeance if according to the Statute in that behalfe made hee be required so to doe 92 That also whatsoeuer may fall out at Rome either touching the said oath of Allegeance or the Popes authoritie in temporalibus without any mention of it therin whether he hath it directly or indirectly the same will not be more amply set out and declared then it was before by Boniface Bonifac. de maior obedientia vnam sanctam the 8. where he writeth in this sort In hac eiusdem potestate duos esse gladios spiritualem viz temporalem Euangelicis dictis instruimur Nam dicentibus Apostolis Ecce duo gladij hîc in Ecclesiâ scil cùm Apostoli loquerentur non respondit Dominus nimis est sed satis Certè qui in potestate Petri temporalem gladium esse negat malè verbum attendit Domini proferentis Conuerte gladium tuum in vaginam Vterque ergo est in potestate Ecclesiae spiritualis scil materialis That is We are warranted by the wòrds of the Gospel that in his power were two swords the one spirituall the other temporall For when the Apostles saide Beholde here are two swords meaning in the Church sith the Apostles spake it Christ replied not it is too much but it is enough Assuredly whosoeuer denieth that the temporall sword is in S. Peters power he doth not wel marke the speech of Christ saying Put vp thy sword into the sheath Therefore both swords are in the power of the Church as well the temporall as the spirituall And a little after Veritate testante spiritualis potestas terrena instituere habet iudicare That is Trueth it selfe testifying that the spirituall power is to order and to iudge earthly affaires according to the prophet Ieremies words Ego constituite hodie super gentes regna caetera quae sequuntur I haue set thee this day ouer nations and kingdomes c All which particulars notwithstanding for the setting out of that Constitution purposely made against the king of France Clemens the fift shortly after made another constitution to the empeachment of the former wherein he writeth thus Nos Regi regno per definitionem declarationem bonae memoriae Bonifacij Papae 8
come together determine any matter or make any Lawes without the Kings Royall assent nor continue any longer together after the King doeth dismisse them it is apparant that they haue no authoritie either to iudge the king a tyrant or to remooue him and that much lesse any priuate persons his naturall borne subiects haue authority to rise vp against him whatsoeuer may bee pretended vnder any colour cause or glosse whatsoeuer That amongst the three orders which deposed the Pag. 213. late Queene of Scotland there were scarse any but three thecues three traitours to their countrey and three murtherers with their abettors resembling the three-formed monster with the lions head breathing out fire the belly of a goate and the taile of a dragon 104 Whereunto this Examinate addethout of the said M. Blackwood that which hee himselfe hath set downe before in effect in the beginning of his Examination and may wel serue for a Theologicall conclusion of this point Quotquot instituto Christi vixerunt c. As many as since Christs Pag. 241. time haue liued according to his institution did neuer decline the gouernement of Tyrants and much lesse did resist them by force they followed therein their Prince Christ himselfe who although hee could haue withstood the iniuries of the people of the high Priest and of Pilate the lieutenant with many legions of Angels yet hee yeelded himselfe to death that hee might thereby confirme that which he had taught in his life time viz that an iniurie is to be borne gently and mildely and not by force to be repelled And againe Pag. 242. Paulus simulatque c. As soone as Paul became a Christian souldier his seditious and bloody spirit being changed into the desire of peace and quietnes he honoured Agrippa Foelix and Lysias the Roman Proconsuls in respect of their offices vt doctrinam suam exemplo vitae sanciret that he might ratifie his doctrine by his example of life To this purpose this Examinate saith he could alledge much more in his desire to shew the freedome of his iudgement from such mens imaginations as are named in this obiection but the remembring onely of Catharinus vpon the 13. to the Romanes together with the premisses may as he hopeth giue sufficient contentment 105 Whereas this Examinate speaking of the Popes authority in temporalibus indirectly Sect. 63. did adde these other equiualent phrases to the word indirectly viz per accidens and by a certaine consequence but refused to insert there the word casualiter and vpon some other occasions did let fall from him that the Pope had no inherent authoritie in temporalibus either directly or indirectly in ordine adspiritualia or per accidens or by any consequence but that which he had he had it casually forasmuch as this word casually may so bee vnderstood as that it may quite dash and ouerthrowe all that formerly hath been said by this Examinate for the clearing of his Allegeance to his Maiestie he was straightly vrged to open this mystery sincerely and truely Theeues haue no ordinary power to spoile houses that are well guarded or rob men by the highway side who are strongly accompanied but they haue oftentimes casually power to doe both as when they finde either houses weakely prouided for or men in their iourneys not sufficiently furnished And it was told this Examinate that hee might haue the like causion in behalfe of the Pope that then hee hath authority to depose kings and deale with them as in the Oath of Allegeance is prouided for to be preuented when hee may haue power so to doe casually that is when he may either by his owne forces or by the forces of any other or by any practises of his agents secretly or by any hap or casualty when kings least suspect it or are altogether vnprouided to resist it that then he may work or procure their vtter ruine and destruction Which were to make the Pope the scholer of Machiauel taking vpon him at some times to play the lion and at other times to become a foxe alwayes practising mischieuously against those Kings that offend him as casually he might be able to effect his designements by praying vpon them or deuouring them 106 Whereunto this Examinate answering saith God forbid God forbid that euer he should haue such an imagination against his Maiestie or that euer he should haue intended by the word casualiter to haue sought for such an euasion as aboue is pretended and besides hopeth that the Pope will neuer giue occasion for any of his Maiesties subiects to resemble him either to a lion or to a foxe which this Examinate saith vpon the occasion giuen hee could not omit to obserue But being heere pressed to come to the point as touching this word casualiter after some long debatement of sundry particulars thereunto appertaining which will appeare by his answers he saith as followeth 107 That hee must indeed confesse the word casualiter to bee diuersly vsed by sundry writers and that some doe take it in that sense which might iustly beget the former obiection and collections They which hold that the Pope is the Lord of all temporalties throughout the world directly doe affirme that such his authoritie and iurisdiction is as really and actually inhering in his person being Christs Vicar as is his supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall but yet the practise of it they hold is but casuall out of S. Peters patrimony And on the other side as they which maintaine that the Pope hath no authoritie in temporalibus directly but indirectly in ordine adspiritualia amongst other phrases which they haue to expresse their minds besides indirectly per accidens and by a certaine consequence they likewise say that he hath it incidently secundùm quid secundariò per consecutionem and accessoriè so when they speake of the practise of that authoritie out of the bounds of S. Peters patrimony they doe also vse the word casualiter For the better manifestation of which particulars this Examinate saith he doth acknowledge that Celsus Mancinus agreeing with the rest who pleade for the Popes inherent authoritie doth write thereof in this sort 108 The Popes Iurisdiction saith Mancinus may be taken either for that which hee hath potestate aut Cels Mancinus de iuribus principatuum pag. 94. actu potentially or actually and actually in two sorts either ordinarily or casually If the authoritie and Iurisdiction of the Pope be taken for that which hee hath potestate potentially it extendeth it selfe ouer all the world but if his actuall Iurisdiction be taken not ordinarily but casually forasmuch as it onely hath vse in the Christian world it is said to bee as great as the whole Christian world and ordinarily as great as is S. Peters Patrimonie Againe speaking of this Idem ibidem pag. 89. great and regall authoritie so inherent in the Pope hee saith it did lie hid in the first Bishops of Rome in the Primitiue Church vntill
whether the Pope doeth require them so to doe or not against any that doe endeauour to suppresse it But he holdeth that such their duetie bindeth them no further then so to maintaine religion within their owne kingdoms if need be and not to make warre in that respect against any who doe containe themselues and their proceedings aforesaid within their owne bounds and doe not seeke by force to suppresse in any other Countries that are adiacent vnto them the Religion there established otherwise then in his owne But withall he addeth that he holdeth it to be the duetie of all such Catholike kings to do what they can with any King auerse from the Pope for the winning of him vnto his Holinesse by perswasion and by euery other good meanes but in no wise by the sword or by solliciting his Subiects to rebellion or to make a part of his owne Kingdome against him or otherwise to endanger his Person Crowne or State Besides for as much as this Examinate saith he beleeueth that the Pope hath no inherent authoritie in himselfe in temporalibus out of S. Peters patrimonie and that the regall authoritie is not deriued from the Pope or held immediatly of him hee doeth not find how the Pope as he is either a Spirituall or a ciuill Prince hath authoritie to command the sword of any Kings otherwise then by entreatie and in the cases by him this Examinate aboue specified or that they are bound by force of their Baptisme to obey him if so he doe command them 125 Secondly were it granted to this Examinate that the Pope as a Ciuill Prince might lawfully haue sent his forces into Ireland as is aforesaid and denounce warre when he thinketh it expedient against any King as Cardinall Allen hath written yet it is fit that this Examinate should open himselfe in his dutie to his Maiestie whether in his iudgement when the Pope will needes take vpon him to play the temporall Prince and become a warriour hee holdeth it to bee at such times more lawfull and agreeable to the Scriptures either for the Pope or for any of his instruments to perswade the Subiects of any King with whom hee contendeth that because hee is a Protestant as that generall name is growen in vse and denieth the Popes supremacie and embraceth the Religion reformed and purged of sundry grosse errours and points of superstition and is thereupon either by name or in generall termes by vertue of some other Buls Excommunicated or because he seeketh to alter the ancient Religion which formerly they or their forefathers did professe therefore it is lawfull for them nay that they are bound in conscience to renounce their obedience vnto him and to assist the Popes forces then it is lawfull for the Emperour or some other Kings whose predecessours had made the Pope a Ciuil prince by bestowing vpon him so large possessions when they haue resolued of a warlike course against him to perswade his Subiects and authorize them to ioyne with them and to beare armes against him vpon these or any other such like suggestions viz that the Pope abused his place and behaued himselfe otherwise then of ancient times his predecessours had done that it was neuer the meaning either of their former renowmed Emperours or of any other Kings or of the most famous Romanes and Italians their Noble progenitors who once gouerned the chiefest part of the world that thereby he should take courage and boldnesse to encounter as hee did with them their successours or to tyrannize as his custome was ouer them his pretended Subiects and ouer their sometimes so glorious a Citie and that therefore if they would ioyne their forces with theirs they would restore them vnto their ancient honours and libertie 126 To this question this Examinate saith that it is a point of State how and when Princes may make warres but he is sure that they ought not so to doe except the cause be iust Againe he cōfesseth that as some hold the Pope may depose no secular Prince though he abuse his authoritie in perniciem Christianitatis fidei to the destruction Iacob Almain de potest Ecclesiasticâ Laicâ Quaest. 1. cap. 9. of Christianitie or of the faith but may onely declare him worthy to be deposed and therefore forbid his subiects vnder paine of Excommunicatiō to performe any dutie vnto him wherby in effect hee looseth his kingdome when no man doth regard him so they doe thinke that in the same sort if the Pope doe abuse his authoritie Idem ibidem Quaest 2. cap. 8. in detrimentum Reipublicae to the detriment of the Common wealth the Emperour may depose him vnder paine of confiscation of all his temporall goods which hee holdeth of the Emperour and of the king as a vassall and that by vertue of such a Sentence giuen by the Emperour they to whom it appertaineth shall in the end bee compelled to remoue him from his authoritie of the high Bishopricke But of these and such like points this Examinate saith he wil not take vpon him to iudge onely hee acknowledgeth that so farre as his reading and learning stretcheth hee doth in his conscience verily beleeue touching the said question to him propounded as here ensueth 127 That neither the Pope hath any authoritie to depose the Emperour nor the Emperour to depose the Pope they may deale one with another for reforming of abuses but they ought not to proceede to such extremities that as hee hath before oftentimes said that the Pope hath no authority at all by any waies or meanes whatsoeuer giuen vnto him Iure diuino to depose any Protestant king or Soueraigne Prince nor to absolue his subiects from their Allegeance nor to authorize them or command them to beare armes against him so neither may hee lawfully when he commeth or sendeth as a Ciuill Prince his forces and men of warre to assaile any such king in his owne Countrey though he take that course in defence of Religion seeke to perswade the subiects of such a King to rebell against him by ioyning their forces with the Popes or if hee or any of his instruments so doe suggesting that otherwise they shall incurre the Popes curse yet they the said subiects ought not to regard it but remaine still as firmely bound to obey their King and take part with him as if the Pope had neuer conceiued any displeasure against him 128 That therefore hee must needs confesse the positions following to be very vnsound and repugnant vnto the Scriptures and the ancient Catholicke doctrine which is alwaies to be preferred before mens new deuises be they for their learning and places neuer so eminent in the Church 129 It is godly and honourable to fight in such order Card. Allen. a True defence pag. 103. and time as we are warranted in conscience and law by our Supreme Pastours and Priests 130 In warres that may at any times happen for religion Card. Allen. letter to Stanley pag.