against it so long and coulde not preuaile Theo. First heare how well they did like it and then how long they did impugne it The Pragmaticall constitution made by the authoritie of the Councell of Basill the Bishops of Rome that came after detested as a pernicious heresie and not one of them the Synod of Basill once dissolued did euer allow the same Which well appeareth by the message that Pius the 2. sent to Lewes the 11. for the repealing of this constitution as the king himselfe reporteth writing backe to the Pope in these wordes We haue consented to those thinges which were aduertised vs in your name by your Legate a latere to wit that the Pragmaticall sanction grieued and iniured both you your See as being made in the time of sedition schisme subuerting all right all law by taking what authoritie they list frō you And this besides which the same Legate in the name of your holines affirmed that whereas by this Pragmaticall constitution the authoritie of your supreme Seat in the Church is restrained a castle of libertie prouided for the Prelats of our Realme vnitie conformitie towards your Seat as other kingdoms obserue is refused the foresaide law is to be remoued abolished out of our Realme as made by inferiour Prelats against your See the mother of all Churches By these perswasions and with vrging a former promise Pope Pius the 2. a great fauourer and expresse defender of the Councell of Basill before his promotion though after blinded with ambition of all others he most detested the pragmaticall sanction called it heresie wan the kinges good will and had his letters to the Senate of Paris for the repealing of this law but neither the kings Atturny nor y◠Bishops would cōsent therto Yea the Schole of Paris feared not to resist the Popes proctor appealing to the next general Coūcell This wisedom and freedom the Clergie men of Fraunce and students of Paris shewed and vsed in maintaining the Pragmaticall sanction against diuerse Popes from the yeare of our Lord 1438. till the yeare 1516. which Leo the 10. that in our dayes wrested it out of their handes is forced to confesse We weigh with our selues howe many treaties haue past betweene Pius the 2. Sixtus the 4. Innocentius the 8. Alexander the 6. and Iulius the 2. Bishops of Rome our predecessors and the most christian kinges of Fraunce for abolishing a certaine constitution called the Pragmaticall bearing great sway in that kingdom and though Pius the 2. by his Legats sent to Lodouike the 11. perswaded him with so many reasons that the king himselfe by his letters Patents did abrogate the said Pragmatical sanction as autorized in the time of seditiō diuisiō yet neither the said abrogatiō nor the Apostolike letters of Sextus the 4. made vpon concordates with the Ambassadours of the said Lodouike were receiued by the Prelates and Ecclesiasticall persons of Fraunce neither would the saide Prelates and Clergie obey them or giue eare to the admonitions of Innocentius and Iulius aforenamed but woulde needes sticke and cleaue still to the said Pragmaticall sanction And when vpon agreement with Frauncis the French king Leo the 10. in a Councel at Rome did abrogate the said constitution pronoūced it vtterly void the whole Uniuersitie of Paris in the yeare 1517. appealed from the Pope and his assembly to a generall free Councell Their wordes be worth the hearing Because he which is Gods Vicar in earth whō we cal the Pope though he haue autority immediatly frō God yet is not therby free frō sin neither hath receiued licence to sin so that we must not obey him if he decree any thing against the diuine precepts but rather may lawfully resist him c. And wher as the coūcel of Basil made many good holsom decrees for the increase of Gods seruice health peace of others which Charles the 7. a most religious aduācer excellent preseruer of the worship of God Ecclesiasticall honor in that famous coūcel of the church of France held at Burdeux caused to be recited cōmanded to be kept inuiolable as euer since they haue bin kept obserued c. But now the Romanes eger on their own lusts gains perceiuing by this meanes siluer gold not to come out of the kingdō delphin of Frāce as before it did as they wish it should spiting these laws haue oftē practised to haue them abrogated by the Bishop of Rome which hitherto by Gods helpe hath bin withstood vntill Leo the 10. came who fauouring the Romanes more than he should in a certaine meeting at Rome which is we know not how but surely not in the holy ghost gathred against vs hath decreed we know not vpon what reason the said holsom statutes to be abolished opposing him self against the catholike faith authority of sacred generall councels hath condemned the holy councell of Basill c. Therefore in these writings we appeale from our Lord the Pope not well aduised frō his infringing the sacred coūcel of Basill the Pragmaticall sanctiō to the next councel that shal be lawfully freely called So far your own fellowes in this very age wherin we liue durst did resist your holy father And least you should think y◠only scholers not Bishops were of this opiniō the prelats of France not past 7. yeares before this appeale in a coūcel at Tours gaue their ful resolution to Lodouike the 12. that it was lawfull for him to forsake the Popes obedience to despise the Popes curses An. 1510. the French king gathered a councel at Tours where he proposed these questions whether it were lawfull for the Pope to wage war with a Prince for no cause whether such a Prince defending his own might inuade the beginner and withdraw himselfe from his obedience The councel answered the Pope might not the Prince might do that which was demāded that also the Pragmatical sanction was to be kept throughout the Realme of France neither need the king to care for the Popes vniust cēsures if he cast out his thūderbolts This answer of the councel the king sent to Iulius who when Peters keies would not preuaile drew out Pauls sword with the shedding of much christian blood sought an vnchristian reuēge The French mē saith Erasmus which with their blood gate Iulius so many notable triūphs by his means with the spilling of a great deal more blood were thrust out of Italy as though that were too litle followed with all kind of reproches if death had not preuēted Iulius we had seene that most florishing kingdom vtterly ouerthrowen Phi. They gat nothing you see by withstanding the Popes keies Theo. Christendom hath gotten lesse by wtstanding the Turke yet that doth not make his cause good but Lodouike the 12. did herein no more than Philip the
faire king of France also did before him put the Pope to the worse Phi. What did he Theo. He not only contemned the Popes Buls curses but clapt his Legat by the heels sequestred himselfe his whole realm from his obedience at length caught the Popes own person kept him in prison til he died Phi. Durst he be so bold with his holines Theo. How bold the king of France was a frier as you bee shal tel you Bonifacius the 8. minding to send an armie to Hierusalem hoping to get Philip of France to furder the matter sent the Bishop of Apamea to the king who when he perceiued he could do no good began to threaten king Philip that he should be depriued of his crown if he did not satisfie the Popes request was therfore by the commādement of the king cast in prison Which done Bonifacius a mā aboue measure arrogāt pretending that Philip had violated the law of natiōs would needs be reuēged sending the Archdeacon of Narbon into Frāce forbiddeth Philip to take any more of the church reuenues wheras before the king that Bonifacius could suffer had one yeares fruit of euery vacāt church which we cal the kings due farther he denoūceth that the crown of Frāce is deuolued to the church of Rome by Philips cōtumacy adding that if Philip refused this he would pronoūce both him those that fauored him heretikes moreouer he appointed the bishops certain Abbats with the diuines Canonists a day to appeare before him at Rome withal declareth the charters grāts bestowed on the Frēch by the bishop of Rome to be void This message done by the Archdeacō with pride enough Philip set the Bishop which was kept in ward for his lewd wordes at libertie and charged him with speede to depart the Realme the next spring the Prince gathered an assembly at Paris rehearsing the iniuries that he had receiued at Bonifacius hands asked first the Bishops of whō they held their lands reuenewes then turning himselfe to the Nobles you my Lords saith he whom do you take for your king ruler both answering without staie that they helde inioyed all those things by his Princely lawes but saith the king Bonifacius so dealeth as if you the whole Realme of Fraunce were subiect to his See For the Empire of the Almanes which he thrise denied Albert hath he now giuen him and also the kingdom of Fraunce But we thanking you for your fidelitie good will trusting to your helpe doe promise to defende the libertie of our Lande The Councell risen the king by open Proclamation forbad all men to carrie gold siluer or any other thing out of his Realme a paine set for the breakers of this Edict besides watch ward was appointed at euery passage port to apprehend those that came in or went out of his Countrie And not long after a second Councell of Bishops and Nobles were assembled at Paris where they discussed Bonifacius claime to the kingdom of Fraunce the Fathers affirming that Bonifacius was vnworthie to be Bishop for that he was an homicide and an heretike whereof they had witnesses present Therefore with one consent they concluded that Bonifacius ought not to be obeyed vnlesse he first cleared himselfe of that he was charged with After this king Philip taking the pride of Bonifacius in very ill part sent some to intimate his appeale against the iniuries of Bonifacius who belike meaning to gratifie the king caught the Pope in his fathers house at Anagnia whēce the proud Prelate was led to Rome cast in prison where within foure twentie daies he ended his life either by violence or else for griefe of hart Thus died Bonifacius like a dogge that went about to strike a terrour into Emperors Kings Princes Countries Commonwealthes rather than any religion which assaied to giue kingdoms take them away to aduance men and pull them downe at his pleasure Wherefore it was truely saide of him he entered like a Foxe craftily liued like a Lion furiously died like a dogge shamefully Phi. This is but one mans iudgement Theo. Yet a man of your owne side and if our English Monkes do not deceiue vs it was the prophesie of Caelestinus his predecessor who sayd to him Thou hast entered like a Foxe thou wilt raigne like a Lion shalt die like a dogge but the truth of the storie is it that I seeke for and that in effect a few circumstances altered is confessed by the best of your writers and this they adde which I would haue you marke that the king not only withdrew his obedience from the Pope but also restrayned his subiectes from sending or going to Rome So Sabellicus Philip offended with Bonifacius by open Edict forbad all French men to go to Rome or to send any mony thither So Platina The king meaning in part to reuēge the wrōgs which the Pope had done him made a law that none of his Realme should go to Rome or send mony thither So Paulus AEmylius The Bishops and prelats of France were commaunded by Bonifacius to appeare at Rome by a certaine day The king suffered no man to depart out of Fraunce which you thinke much her Maiestie should at this present in a far better cause commaund within her dominions Phi. One Swallow maketh no summer Theo. One such Sommer is able to mar the Popes haruest but herein the king of France is not alone the kings of England haue done the like Phi. Which of them Theo. I could easily name them but I need not The ancient Lawes Liberties of this Realm permit no man to go out of this land nor appeale to Rome without the kings consent Phi. Uery ancient I promise you those lawes were first made by king Henrie the 8. about fiftie yeares since Is not that great antiquitie Theo. The lawes that I speake of are 500 yeares old and were in full force vnder William Rufus and Henrie the 1. the Sonnes of William the Conquerer Phi. Did they restraine their subiectes from going to Rome Theo. Whether they did or no iudge you When Anselmus Archbishop of Canterbury asked leaue of William Rufus to go to Rome the king replied that no Archbishop nor Bishop of his realm should be subiect to the Pope or court of Rome especially since hee had all those liberties in his kingdom which the Emperour had in the Empire And for this cause was Anselmus conuented by the king as an offendour against the State And to this accusation did the most of the Bishops except the Bishop of Rochester giue their consentes And for that he ventered ouer the Seas to Rome without leaue All his goods cattels were seased to the kings vse all his actes proceedings in the Church of England reuersed himselfe constrained to liue in banishmēt during the life of king
ministers of Christs spouse and kingdom no more than his Apostles were if so much and your commission is no larger than theirs if it be so large and yet the Apostles themselues had no power to depose Princes but submitted their bodies and liues to the powers which God had ordained and taught Christes most deare spouse his very bodie mystical to do the like and shee did so not offering any example of resisting and deposing Princes for a thousand yeres after shee first receiued at her husbands mouth a charge to honour them and in earthly things to obay them As for your Episcopall power ouer Princes if that be it you seeke for and not to take their kingdomes from them I tolde you before if they breake the Law of God you may reproue them if they heare you not you may leaue them in their sinnes and shut heauen against them if they fall to open heresie or wilfull impietie you may refuse to communicate with them in prayers and other diuine duties yea you must rather yeeld your liues with submission into their hands than deliuer them the word and sacraments otherwise than God hath appointed farther than this if you will go to the temporall punishing and finall displacing of them from their thrones and to the discharging of the people from the oth and obedience towards such Princes which is the right intent of your Romish censures as your owne woordes import though your cause were neuer so good as yours is starke naught you then turne religion into rebellion patience into violence wordes into weapons preaching into fighting fidelitie into periurie subiection into sedition and in steede of the seruantes of GOD which you might bee by enduring you become the Souldiers of Satan by resisting the powers which GOD hath ordayned Phi. Your threates were somewhat if the Church had not first deposed them Theo. Pull not out your owne eyes with your owne handes The Church hath no such Commission from Christ. Shee can not discharge smaller dueties as of children to their Parents and wiues to their husbandes much lesse greater as subiection othe and loyaltie to Princes Say if you dare that the Preceptes of subiection and submission vnto Princes in the sacred Scriptures doe not binde Bishoppes as well as others If they doe then marke what mockeries you make of the woorde of God Let euery soule and therefore euery Bishoppe bee subiect to the higher Powers that you will haue to stande vntill the Bishoppes depose them and take their power from them You must bee subiect the Bishoppes you meane as long as they list For if they like not their Prince by your Doctrine they may displace him Submit your selues to the king as excelling all others but you will bee sure to excell him and when you see your time to make him the meanest amongest the people Giue vnto Caesar the thinges that bee Caesars but if Caesar anger you you take from him goods Landes Scepter sworde life and all O worthie interpreters of Gods heauenly will A fewe such glozes will helpe Christ himselfe out of his kingdome such cunning you haue to defeate the commaundementes of the holy Ghost and to spoyle innocent and Christian Princes of their Crownes when you lyst to displace them Phi. They bee your foolish additions and not ours Theo. Auoyde the textes which wee bring without these or the like constructions and take the whole cause for your labour Well you may florish with the name of the Church where I say the Bishoppes and require some causes before Princes shoulde bee deposed which I referre to the discretion of the deposer but in effect your answeres must bee as I report them For what if the Pope offer open wrong to Princes of his owne Religion as hee did to Philippe the Faire King of Fraunce to Frederike the second Germane Emperour and to many others Who shall reuerse his definitiue sentence by your doctrine but himselfe that either for shame may not or for pride will not relent from his error Phi. Therefore wee referre the right of deposing Princes to the Church because wee woulde bee sure to haue it done by Lawe order and iudgement Theo. And that solemne proces of Lawe order and iudgement in your Church which you crake of when all is done is nothing els but the Popes pleasure for hee will bee tied neither to Councell nor Canon farther than standeth with his liking his Decrees be Canons and a reason of his fact may no man aske him by your Lawes and therefore Princes haue a warme sute to depend on such Lawes orders and iudgements As for the Church of Christ she neuer tooke any such thing vpon her neither did shee euer make any Decree that Prelats might depose Princes She endured as well heretikes and Apostataes as Pagans and persecutours many hundred yeeres to the glorious triall of her fayth and eternall reward of her patience Onely Gregorie the 7. Bishop of Rome more than a thousande yeres after Christ in the heighth of his pride and furie gaue the first onset to depose his Lord and master and others after him were easily led to followe his example but to this day neuer christian king nor Realme acknowledged or obeyed that power in the Pope which yet he doth wickedly chalenge as you do wilfully defend Phi. It may please the gentle readers to enforme their consciences partly by that is sayde before and specially by that which followeth Where they shall finde that streight vppon the first conuersion of kinges to the faith as the good and godly haue euer obeyed the Church and submitted themselues to ecclesiasticall censures and discipline so the euill and obstinate could neuer orderly discharge themselues from the same without euident note of iniustice tyrannie and irreligiositie and were either in fine brought to order penance or else to confusion both temporal and eternal Theo. Hee must be very gentle that will enforme his conscience with your bare surmises other enformations you giue none That which is said before is to small purpose that which followeth is to smaller Neuer good nor godly king obeyed the Popes sentence of deposition and besides the Pope neuer Church Councell nor Pastour offered any such wrong to Christian or heathen Princes What you call orderly discharging of themselues I knowe not the wisest and worthiest Princes that those dayes bred neither dissenting in fayth from the Bishop of Rome nor then doubting of his Pastoral headship ouer the Church such was the blindnes of their times yet openly despised and vtterly resisted his arrogant censures in depriuing Princes and howsoeuer by warres conspiracies and treasons hee tyred some of them God giuing Princes for the neglect of his trueth and number of their sinnes into the handes and power of Antichrist yet others bridled and kirbed your holy father himself in such sort that he had small ioy of his enterprise Of their eternall confusion
or the order of those thinges which were doone by reason Platina in these wordes runneth so on heade against the rest And therefore you shall pardon vs for receiuing a man of meane iudgement and one that writeth verie negligently of these affaires before the rest that purposely and largely treated of those matters as neere as they coulde get the knowledge or come by the likelihood of those actions These bee your presidentes for the depriuing of Princes betweene sixe-hundreth and a thowsande yeares after Christ. Other or better you haue not and these you see bee verie slender Phi. Wee coulde alleadge more but you will shift them as you doe these Theo. Wee shift not when wee reproue the partiall and corrupt reportes of your owne fellowes by better and elder testimonies Moe if you haue you neede not spare Philand Philippicus was depriued of the Empire by the Bishoppe of Rome and so was Childerike of the kingdome of Fraunce Theoph. Your Law doeth not sticke to boast that Zacharias deposed Childerike King of Fraunce and placed Pipine in his roome Philand So hee did Theo. Who sayth so besides you Philand Platina sayeth Eius authoritate regnum Franciae Pipino adiudicatur By Zacharies authoritie the kingdom of Fraunce was adiudged vnto Pâ—pine And Frisingensis affirmeth that Pipine was absolued by Pope Steuen from the othe of allegeance which he had giuen to Childerike and so were the rest of the Nobles of Fraunce and then the king being shauen and thrust into a Monasterie Pipine was annoynted king which you thinke much the Pope shoulde doe in our dayes Theoph. Sette aside your helping and interlacing the Storie and I see no cause why Zacharie shoulde bee thought by his Apostolike power to haue deposed Childerike Philand Deposed hee was Theoph. But neither for religion nor by the Popes Consistorie Philand For the cause of his deposition I will not greatly striue Our Lawe sayeth hee was deposed Pro eo quod tantae potestati inutilis erat for that hee was vnfitte for the kingdome but sure Pope Zacharie deposed him Theoph. Sure you bee deceiued Pope Zacharie was then of no such accompt that hee coulde depose Princes Hee was consulted whether it might lawfully bee doone or no but farther than so the Bishoppe of Rome did not in open sight intermedle with the matter whatsoeuer his priuie practises were though many of your Monkes and Bishops to grace the Pope doe make it his onely Act. Philand In all these cases our Stories are against you and no reason wee credite you to discredite them Theoph. I desire you not to credite mee and giue me leaue to doe as much for you but if your owne Stories make with vs I see no cause you shoulde discredite them Philand We doe not Theoph. You may not Then touching the persons which did the deede Sabellicus sayth Proceres Regni populi amplexi Pipini virtutem pertesâ—que regis amentiam Zacharia Romano Pontifice prius consulto regis appellatione Childerico adempta vt spes etiam regni adimeretur in clerum detondent Pipinum regem creant The Nobles Commons of Fraunce or Germanie imbracing the valour of Pipine and hating the foolishnesse of their king hauing first consulted Zacharie Bishop of Rome tooke from Childerike the name of a king and to cutte him from all hope of aspiring to the crowne they sheere him a Monke and elect Pipine for their king Blondus saieth I finde in Alcuinus Paulus and diuerse others which wrote the Actes of the Francks that the Nobles and CommoÌ„s of that Nation duly considering the worthines of Pipine sottishnes of Childerike consulted Zacharie the Bishop of Rome whether they should tolerate so folish a king any loÌ„ger defraud Pipin of his deserued princely honor when the Bishop made answere that he was best worthy to be king which could best discharge the dutie of a king the FraÌ„kes with the publike consent of the whole Nation pronounced Pipine for their king and Childerike was shorne and made a Monke Nauclerus saieth The Franckes elected Pipine for their king by the publike consent of the whole Nation which is all one with that Blondus sayeth They declared or pronounced him for their king And this is the reason that your owne gloze limiteth your Lawe in this sort Deposuit id est deponentibus consensit Zacharie deposed Childerike that is he consented to those which deposed him Phi. The most of our Stories saie hee did it Theoph. Your Stories are very forwarde to attribute euerie thing to the Pope that may any waie increase his power And it may be the Pope had an oare in that boate more than euerie bodie well perceiued For Pipine was the man on whome the Pope wholy relied and whose power hee afterwarde vsed to quaile the Lombards and defeate the Grecians that the Pope and Pipine might diuide the spoyles of the West betweene them And therefore I can bee soone induced to thinke that a maine plotte was layde first to make Pipine king of France and then by his helpe to turne the Greeke Emperour out of Italie that the Pope might haue share of the reuenues of the Empire as not long after it came to passe but that the Pope then claymed any power to depose Princes and giue kingdomes or that the better sore of your owne stories staie on any such pretences you shall neuer shewe Zacharie being consulted made answere what the Germanes by Gods Lawe as he thought might doe but he did not appoint them by sentence or censure what they should doe Philand Howe shall wee knowe that in this diuersitie of reportes Theoph. You shall heare Zacharies answere to the Legates that were sent about this matter and that you may safely trust Philand I mistrust not his owne wordes Theop. You neede not hee woulde fauour himselfe as much as hee might with any good coulour When Volorade and Burcharde were sent to Zacharie to vnderstand his iudgement his answere was I finde in the sacred storie of the Diuine Scriptures that the people fell awaie from their wretchlesse and lasciuious king that despised the counsell of the wise men of his Realme and created a sufficient man one of themselues king God him selfe allowing their doinges All power and rule belong to God Princes are his ministers in their kingdomes And rulers are therefore chosen for the people that they shoulde follow the will of God the chiefe ruler in all thinges and not to doe what they list Hee is a true king that guideth the people committed to his charge according to the prescript and line of Gods Lawe All that hee hath as power glorie riches honour and dignitie he receiueth of the people The people create their king and the people may when the cause so requireth forsake their king It is therefore lawfull for the Franckes and Germanes refusing this vnkindely monster Childerike to choose some such as shall bee able in warre
and peace by his wisedome to protest and keepe in safetie their wiues children parentes goodes and liues I will not examine the Popes diuinitie in that hee sayth Princes haue their powers of the people which the Scripture sayeth they haue of God this is plaine hee claimeth no power to depose Princes but alleadgeth an example that the people may chaunge their king when hee is not able for frensie or follie to do the duetie of a king And by that concludeth it lawfull for the Germanes to refuse that simple idiote which had the Scepter by succession and elect an other Phi. Though you holde the Pope may not yet you confesse the people may depose their Prince Theo. I tell you not what I thinke but what Pope Zacharie sayde to the Germanes Phila. Doe you like or dislike that hee sayde Theo. I shoulde haue asked you that question but because you preuent mee you shall heare what I saie Zâ—charie toucheth not the causes for which Princes may be deposed but the persons by whom it must bee doone if it bee needefull to doe it and that is by their owne Realmes and not by tribunalles abroade as you suppose Phi. Then it may bee doone Theo. When it shoulde bee doone the whole Realme must doe it and not the Pope Phi. But neither hee nor they can doe it except you first assent that it may be doone There can bee no deposers if Princes bee not deposeable Theo. There may fall extremities when Princes are not able to guide themselues much lesse their Realmes Phi. What be those Theo. I named them before frensie follie As if the right heire to any Crowne be a naturall foole or he that is inuested in the Crowne waxe mad and run besides him selfe In either of these two cases any Realme by publike consent and aduise may choose an other Phi. What vnlikely cases you bring vs which neuer yet fell out in proofe Theo. Yeas that they haue Childerike of whom we spake euen now was deposed by the Germanes for a foole And Charles the 3. the last Emperour of Pipines line Gods iustice requiting his children with the verie same measure that he met before vnto his master was deposed by the same people for * a bedlem As also when Iustinus the yonger was * distract of his wits Tiberius was placed in the Empire Philand You make Childerike a foole because you woulde auoide the Popes power to depriue Princes Theophil If you made him not a foole when you putte him from his right vnder that pretence I doe him no wrong Your Stories blaze him for a frantike foole Blondus and Nauclerus saie they did it Pensantes Regis amentiam considering the madnes of the king Sabellicus addeth thereunto * Regis deliria ineptias the follie and frensie of the king Gaguinus saith he was * homo vecors bellua a verie sotte and a beast and for that cause his title in your Stories is Childericus stupidus Childerike the foole whether hee were or no God knoweth but this wee see they handled him like a foole and the Pope had information against him that hee was Deneger monstrum a monster and not a man and therefore were the causes which they alleadged for this deposition true or no wee greatly care not They pretended a cause sufficient if it were true and the Pope confessed it lawefull for the whole Realme to displace such a Prince as was both vn-fitte and vn-able to beare the sworde Philand But Stephen absolued Pipine from the othe of alleageaunce which hee had giuen vnto Childerike Theoph. High time to absolue Pipine from his othe three yeares after Childerike was deposed and hee placed in the kingdome Regino whence that fable first came of Stephens sicknesse at Paris and his recouerie by a vision of Sainct Denis saieth not a worde of any such absolution but onely that Stephen confirmed Pipine and his two sonnes as lawfull kinges of France and adiured the Nobles not to choose them a king of any other line so long as Pipines race indured The rest is added by Monks and Friers in fauor of the Pope as infinite other thinges are in the accidentes of euerie Age. Howbeit absoluing from others if they be lawfull and good is a greater matter than we yet beleeue your holy father may deale with The wauering of your Stories in the cause of Childerikes deposition for sometimes they vrge a defect in Childerike sometimes they pleade a right in Pipine without the king and aboue the king as hauing the regiment of that Realme and all publike affaires committed to him and his for the space of fourscore yeares by way of inheritaunce before hee sought the crowne this wauering in the cause and curious seeking for absolutions and confirmations maketh many men suspect that your pretences against Childerike were not all true But whether Pipine had better interest to the Crowne of Fraunce than Childerike by reason the Mareschal of the Palace was become the kinges master in so much that the king coulde not commaunde his owne diet but at the Marshals pleasure and was gouerned and ouerruled in al things by him as a boy by his tutor which is the constant report of all your witers touching the state of the Germane kinges when Pipine aspired to the crowne or whether Childerike were an idiote and the last of his house as for the better strength of Pipines title your stories auouch I will be no iudge Childerik I say was deposed by the Nobles and commons of his nation and the Pope being consulted whether it were lawfull for them so to doe made answere they might but added no word of his diuine power to dispose kingdoms to his liking And this for Childerik may suffice For Philippicus the answere is easier Hee was a rebell and slue his Master in the fielde and therefore without any farther cause the Romanes might refuse both his name his reigne To this vsurpation when hee added as they thought impietie it was no maruel to see them so earnest against him But in this as in many other things your later Stories stray from the former The elder sort of Historiographers as Beda Regino Marianus Frisingensis Vrspergensis say The people of Rome decreed that neither his name nor letters nor coyne shoulde be receiued the later as Blondus Sabellicus and Nauclerus haue chaunged their tune and say The Bishop of Rome did it at the clamor and petition of the people Sigebert as indifferent betweene them saith the Bishop and the people ioyntly did it So handsomly you can hammer thinges when they come to your fingering and such credit your Stories deserue when the case concerneth your holy Fathers authoritie These bee all the examples you doe or can bring for the space of a thowsand yeares after Christ where Princes were depriued of their crownes by the Bishop of Rome and these how litle they make for your purpose
hee did but recâ—uer his own out of their handes for the which Blondus chargeth him with rebellion and periurie Cuspinian therefore a man of your Religion verie truely noteth him other Italian writers in this case for mere flatterers Hauing repeated the same fact that Vrspergensis before did testifie Thence sayth hee sprang the first occasion of enmitie betweene the Prince and the Pope Although the Italian writers doe say that Frederike the Emperour after the death of his mother Constantia which kept him in tune and would not suffer to growe to these passions did the worst hee coulde against Honorius the third Gregorie the ninth and Innocentius the fourth handled Rome which had nourced him vp as if she had beene his stepmother But those flatterers of the Bishop of Rome wil haue al thinges lawful for the Pope inuesting him with both swordes and making all Emperours but his seruauntes This was Frederikes wicked rebellion against Honorius that Blondus expresseth in so great wordes to winne his owne by force of armes out of their handes that inuaded him and to requite them with the like and such quarels can your holy father pick to Princes when he is disposed to spit his venyme against Princes Gregorie the nynth vpon lesse cause shewed more furie Hee did excommunicate Frederike the seconde for that hee staied his expedition against the Turke till hee had recouered his health and when the Prince sent his Embassadours to make faith thereof he would not so much as heare them or see them And after in the absence of the Prince whiles he was fighting against the Turke the Pope inuaded his Land and caused the souldiers that shoulde haue aided him against the Turke to be spoyled and stopped of their iourneie a fame to be spred that the Emperor was dead the Almanes that returned froÌ„ Ierusalem to be slaine least they shoulde notifie the Princes life and welfare Phi. These be horrible lies deuised by such as would haue the Pope in hatred with all men Theo. They bee true tales and truer than those which some of your side haue coigned to claw the Pope with Your own fellowes confesse as much as I say Phi. Germanes perhaps in fauor of their Emperors Th. If you refuse the Germanes of your own religion as welwillers to their Princes how shall we receiue your Italians that were more than partiall to their Popes Yet this aduantage we haue ouer you the elder and sincerer Stories euen of your Romish profession and deuotion make with vs in these matters Nauclerus discussing the causes of Frederikes excommunication repeating what Antoninus a Florentin writeth in the soothing of Gregories fact addeth But surely by the epistle of Gregorie which hee wrote to the king of France with this beginning Out of the Sea is the beast asceÌ„ded it is conuinced that Gregory at this time did not excoÌ„municate Frederike for these causes which Antoninus pretendeth but for that Frederik staied longer with his souldiers from succouring the holy land than the terme which he had vowed by oth and was enioyned by the Pope vnder the paine of his curse To the which the Emperor answered that he was vniustly excoÌ„municated for so much as he entred the iourney within the terme besides the death of the Lant-graue one of the chiefest that should aid him a dangerous sicknes constrained him to take laÌ„d again so by his euident infirmity ought to be excused Phi. The Emperor fained himselfe sicke that the Pope vnderstood by the letters of Bishops that were in his traine Theo. That was the Popes replie to salue his doings but why did he not voutsafe to heare or see the Archbishop of BrundusiuÌ„ others whom the Prince sent to make faith of his sicknes why did he not expect the Princes purgatioÌ„ by oth or otherwise that his excuse was not fained What seruant was euer so disdayned by his master if he were honest but his reasonable defence was heard And our holy father forsooth wil not expect no not admit the Emperour of Christendome to make faith of his corporall infirmitie Phi. We tell you he was not â—â—cke Theo. We tell you that was harde for you to know harder to proue You should haue called his messengers to their othes or haue sent some to feele his pulse if you had suspected him for a moicher In the meane time the worlde seeth the frantike pride of that wicked Pope who not only denied audience to the Archbishop other the kinges messengers would not so much as admit theÌ„ to his sight but condemned accursed the sick Emperor for not passing the seas to sight against the Turke And here see the right vaine of your Romish iustice Your holy father did hinder the prince secretly what he could by rebellions vprores froÌ„ going against the Turk yet did excommunicate him for not going Phi. Did the pope hinder him Theo. Look your own stories The yeare before which was 1226. The Lombards saith Nauclerus as it was thought at the suggestion of Honoriuâ— the Pope entred a league amoÌ„gst themselues with the cities nâ—ere adioyning against Frederike the 2. which continued many yeares by the name of the Lombards league a verie great annoiance to the Romane empire and a manifest impediment of the iourney to Ierusalem because the expedition which Frederike had promised to make into Syria was kept off a long time by this occasion Phi. This was but a thought Theo. The league was apparent the instigation was secrete This confederacie if the Pope had not fauored he should haue assisted the Emperor with his keyes cursinges which were euer ready against Princes but neuer against those that troubled them yet if you thinke the Pope was no dealer in this conspiracie read what Vrspergensis writeth of them the next yeare after his sicknes when the Prince was taking his voiage to Ierusalem In the yeare of our Lord 1228. The Emperor minding to accoÌ„plish his vow and appease the Pope sailed to the Land of Iurie and that yeare before his going he had indicted a generall meeting of his Princes at Rauenna from the which he was hindered by the messengers Legates of the Pope For they of Verona MillaÌ„ suffred none to passe through their coasts but spoiled the very souldiers that were to go against the Turk that as they affirmed by the authority of the Pope which alas is a shameful thing to speake of After Frederiks departure as if the former wronges had not bin spitefull enough the Pope taking occasion of the Emperours absence addressed a maine armie into Apulia and tooke the Emperours countries from him who was then in the seruice of Christ a most horrible thing to speake subdued them to his own vse hindered the souldiers that were going against the Turke the most he could from passing the Seas as wel in Apulia as Lombardy
othe you haue taken to the Empeire can yeeld to them and they intend to send oratours to the Pope and to the Colledge of Cardinals to request them to cease from this course If they refuse your Princes are resolued to meete at Rens vpon Rhene there to deliberate with you for the farther resisting of these practises Phi. If these electors were so earnest for Lodouik how hapned they choose Charles the fourth against him Theo. The Pope wan the Duke of Saxonie with monie as Conrade of Maidenburge craketh and so with a newe Archbishoppe of Cullen whome the Pope intruded the former incumbent yet liuing Charles sonne to the king of Bohemia and nephew to the Archbishop of Treuers was chosen who were easily induced to consent to the election of one so neere them in blood but neither would the Princes of Germanie receiue him nor durst hee medle with the Empire so long as Lodouike liued For when Ludouik called the Nobles togither vpoÌ„ the choice of Charles asked theÌ„ whether of the twaine they would haue to beare rule ouer them The whole assemblie without any staie cried out that Lodouike was their Soueraigne and their Emperour appointed by God and that they woulde continue in his obedieÌ„ce And there detesting the persidiousnes of those few that made this new choise defieng Charls in the worst words they could giue with great zeale they renewed their oth to Lodouike and promised him their helpe to reuenge that wickednes And so Charles hated of all the Germanes for the breach of his oth to Lodouike and no where receiued as Emperour was conueied into Bohemia Neither durst he come out of his hoale or take the gouernment vpon him so long as Ludouike liued Nauclerus likewise confesseth that Ludouike gathering the imperiall cities togither at Spires fouÌ„d them very earnest on his side so that none of the cities of Rhene Sueuia or Franconia any whit esteemed the new election of Charles or the Popes processe In this state they stood defending their Prince and neglecting the Pope till the death of Ludouike who being well in health and verie pleasaunt at a feast where he met the Dutchesse of Austria as soone as he drank of the cuppe which the Dutchesse reached him presently felt himselfe sicke as Cuspinian sayeth feeling a griping at his hart suspected himselfe to be poisoned and getting on his horse to ride abroade was stroken with a palsie and fell from his horse and gaue vp the Ghost After his death the Bishop of Mentz the Marquesse of Brandenburge the Palatine of Rhene with the Duke of Saxonie that newly succeded coÌ„cluding the choice of Charles to be voide sent a solemn message to Edward the third king of England inuiting him to take the Empire But hee with thankes refused it Not long after they choose Gunter who the same yeare was poysoned with a potion his Physition also dying within three dayes whom the king commaunded to drinke before him Phi. This was not the Popes doing Theo. Whose doing it was we know not but thus they were made awaie that withstood the Pope And so was king Iohn of his Land vppon whom your holy father and his religious adhereÌ„ts shewed the fulnes of your Romish deuises You forced a disordered election vpon him and when he would not like it you depriued him of his crowne and offered the same to the king of France and to his heyres for euer with full remission of his and all their sinnes that would take weapon in hande to driue king Iohn from his Realme And after you had assembled a mightie force against him you counselled him rather to resigne his crowne into y Popes handes and to take it againe of him in farme than with fire and sword to be chased out of his land and loose both his kingdom and his life And by this cunning when you had gotten the kings graunt to subiect himselfe and his crowne to the church of Rome you restrained him cursed the Frenche kinges sonne souldiers whom your selues had incited to this pray for not leauing off when you willed them and loosing all their labour and charges when you were once seased of that you sought for In the end when you saw him so much in the Popes fauour that he preuailed against his Barons and Bishops as he would himselfe you sent him packing with poyson which a Monk tempered for him in the Abbeie of Swinesteade not farre from Lincolne Phi. That he was poysoned is not true as also that Stephen LanghtoÌ„s election to the See of Canterburie was disordered and as for the rest I see no cause why you should mislike Theo. That he was poysoned is witnessed by Caxton Hemingfoord and others Matthew Paris and Matthew of Westminster in fauour of the Monk that did it themselues being Monkes say he surfited with eating Peaches and drinking sweet wine which also the rest affirm but those they auouch were poisoned Polydor bringeth both reportes as finding them both written There are saith hee which write that a Monke of Swinestead prouoked with certaine wordes which king Iohn spake tempered poyson with wine and dranke thereof himselfe before the king to get him to doe the like and so they both departed this life almost at one instaÌ„t Of Stephen Langhtons election to the See of Canterburie we need no better witnes than yâ— Monke of S. Albons that was then aliue had no fansie to king Iohn as may â—e seene by his writings Phi. Will you stand to his opinion in this cause Theo. Historiographers vse to declare what was doone not to decide what was wel or euill done I take the fact as he reporteth it let the reader be iudge of the cause Some of the Monks of Canterburie choose their Subprior to be Archbishop in the night without any solemne forme without the kinges consent and without the greater part of the conuent the rest choose the Bishoppe of Norwich in the day time the king being there and consenting to their election which was celebrated before sufficieÌ„t witnesses Both parts presenting their electes to the Bishop of Rome after long discussing the Pope pronounced either election to bee voide and disabled both the contendours to bee chosen to that See And knowing what good an Archbishop might doe him in furthering his collections exactions in this Land he commanded the Monks there present vpon paine of excommunication to make choice of Stephen LaÌ„ghton before they departed the place And when the Monks answered they could not celebrate an electioÌ„ that would be canonical without the kings coÌ„sent the rest of their couent the Pope catching the word out of their mouthes said know ye that in elections made here with vs the assent of Princes is not wont to be expected Wherfore in vertue of your obedience vnder the daÌ„ger of our curse we coÌ„mand you to choose him whom
Polydore that king Iohn desirous to eternise the memorie of this good turne made himselfe beneficiarie to the Bishop of Rome with this prouiso that the kings of England after that should receiue the right of their crowne only from the Pope But the kings that followed neuer obserued this forme neither do the Chronicles of England report any such submission Wherfore it is certain that all those burdens were laid on the person of king Iohn that offended and not on his successors Phi. For heresie George king of Boemland was excommunicated and thereupon by the forces of the king of Hungarie at length actually depriued Theo. For the mislike of your Romane vanities your holy father plaied his part with George king of Boemland 1466. yeares after Christ as he had done with other Princes before deiecting him from his kingdome by presumptuous iudgement at Rome and inticing the Princes that were neighbours in hope of his kingdom to inuade him with armes to ioine with the Bohemians that rebelled against him Which offer Mathias king of Hungary first imbraced a proud vnthankfull crafty fraudulent ambitious man as Frederike the 3. then Emperor of Rome complained of him in his embassage to Cazimire king of Pole might well appeare by his behauior to king George who had him in hold when he was chosen king of Hungarie might haue depriued him both of kingdom life would not but yet that inhumane aspiring head of his did not preuaile For George persisted died king of Bohemia notwtstanding the Popes curses Mathias forces and after his death was Vladislaus Cazimires sonne chosen to the kingdome and not onely helde it in spite of Mathias and the Popes grant to him none else but also succeeded Mathias in the kingdom of Hungarie Phi. Yet the Pope gaue the kingdom of Bohemia to Mathias Theo. Hee might haue giuen him the kingdom of Constantinople or Persia with as much right as he did this but howe that gift was esteemed euen by those that otherwise depended on the church of Rome the choice of a new and the next king did declare Phi. Also Iohn Albert had halfe his kingdom of Nauarre taken from him by Ferdinandus surnamed Catholicus of Aragon for that he gaue aid to Lewes the 12. being excommunicated by Iulius the second Theo. The driftes of Princes intertaining the Popes Buls and admitting his keyes so farre as they make for their profit do not proue the Popes power to be good or their persons states to be subiect to his censures by Gods Law Philip the 2. king of Fraunce was earnest to execute the Popes Bull against king Iohn spared no cost for the preparation of the warre The cause was he hoped to get the Crowne of England for his paines but Lodouike his sonne Philip the 4. this Lewes whom you name neither reuerenced nor regarded the Popes Buls which made against them but shewed a manifest contempt of his censures with open Edicts seuered themselues their people from his obedience So Ferdinand king of Spaine when by violent suddain inuasion he had gotten that part of Nauarre which bordered vpon him was content for the keeping of it to pretend the Popes Bul against Lewes the 12. but Charles the fift the next king of Spaine could let his soldiers surprise Rome and desposse it in most cruel maner abusing illuding the Priests Nonnes Bishops Cardinals with all military despites furies keepe the Pope fast lockt in prison till he paied 400000. pounds for his ransome and consented to such other conditions as they listed to prescribe Phi. It was not Charles wil that Rome should be sacked or the Pope thus handled it was the Germanes rage for want of pay Theo. Charles coulde doe litle if he could not dissemble He neither rebuked his armie nor inlarged the Pope nor recompensed any part of the Pillage which his soldiers as well Spaniards as Germanes had committed in Rome leauing nothing behinde them that was worthy the taking And so long though his consent did not appeare yet he made his aduantage of their act and secretly supported them by his protraction to take the whole spoile of the citie Phi. The variance betweene the Pope Charles was for temporal matters Theo. So Lewes the 12. contended with Iulius the 2. for temporall dominion therefore the king of Nauarre ayding the French king in a ciuill quarell was nothing so much to be blamed as Charles but the trueth is Ferdinand had cast his eyes on that kingdom confining so neere lying so commodious the ancient desire of the kings of Spaine to be Lords of Nauarre being wel knowen as Guicciardin confesseth for that cause when he could deuise no better title he took hold of the Popes Bul colouring his iniurious ambitioÌ„ with a semblaÌ„ce of Romish deuotion Phi. It is holden at this day by the same right Theo. This was no right other I knowe none the king of Spaine hath to it besides the sword by the which it was gotten not yet 73. yeares since Phi. Wil you dispute his title Theo. I am not so curious in an other mans common wealth let the Princes whom it concerneth trie their own titles yet this is certaine that neither the kings of England France nor Spaine would suffer the Pope to dispose their kingdoms or any part of their dominions against their likings Phi. For like causes and namely for that he was vehemently suspected of the murther of the blessed Bishop S. Thomas of Canterbury was Henrie the second driuen by Alexander the third to order and penance Theo. The strife betweene the king Thomas Becket then Archbishop of CaÌ„terburie is reported before not now to be iterated The lawes liberties of the church for the which he resisted the king were nothing else but the rescuing of malefactors if they were Clerkes from due punishmeÌ„t exempting themselues from the kings subiection which be quarels of their own nature wicked irreligious therefore well you may call him BLESSED because you be consorted in the same quarell with him against God your Prince otherwise his pride was intolerable his contention with the king detestable his end miserable Phi. Are you not ashamed to staine the glory of that worthy Martyr Theo. First proue him an innocent before you make him a Martyr Phi. Who euer charged him with any crime Theo. The very cause he stood in was crime enough besides his resisting the prince which S. Paul pronounceth to be damnable Phi. Do you make it damnable to defende the liberties of the church Theo. To dreame that the statelines of Popes and licentiousnes of Priests was the perfection happines of Christs church and in that leâ—de conceit to neglect your othes resist the powers which God hath established is a triple damnation Phi. That we do not Theo. That he
was loth to sit iudge in his owne person for that he was not acquainted with the Church Canons which were then brought in question but at length when he saw no remedie himself sate in iudgement both after the Pope and after the Councell and heard the whole matter and ended it for euer This inferreth that at the first when he refused he wanted not power to commaund but skill to discerne more requisite in a iudge than the former Yea at the first when he durst not sit iudge himselfe for lacke of experience hee shewed his soueraintie by making delegates to heare and order the cause So sayth S. Austen the very next wordes For that Constantine durst not be iudge himselfe of a Bishops cause eam discutiendam at que finiendam Episcopis delegauit he made delegates of the Bishops to discusse and determine the same And againe causam Ceciliani iniunxit eis audiendam he gaue foorth a precept to the Bishoppe of Rome and others for hearing of Cecilianus his matter Now to delegate the Bishoppe of Rome with others and to giue fresh iudges after them is an argument of greater authoritie than if the Prince in Person had beene iudge in the cause Did not Constantine receiue that appeale which the Donatists made from Meltiades and assigne them other iudges His Epistle to Chrestus Bishoppe of Siracusas in Sicile whom he willed to be present at the Councell of Arle for the ending of the same matter is an euident proofe that hee did At the first sayth Constantine when this schisme beganne I wrate my letters and tooke this order that certaine Bishops comming from Fraunce the parties in strife called for out of Africke the Bishop of Rome being also there in their presence this quarrell should be throughly considered and pacified Mary for so much as they will not agree to the sentence there giuen but goe forward in their outragious dissention I must take care that the strife which should haue caulmed of it selfe at the first decision at least may now bee composed by the meeting of many Hauing therefore charged a great number of Bishops out of diuers coastes to assemble by the kalends of August at Arle I thought it not amisse by letters to require you that you fayle not to be with them at the time place appointed that by your vprightnes with the good aduise and full consent of the rest which shall then there meete you vpon diligent hearing what either side can say whom we haue commanded to be likewise present they may be reduced from the schisme yet during to religion fayth and brotherly concord as in duetie they be bound When Meltiades and his collegues sayth Austen to the Donatists had pronounced Cecilianus innocent and condemned Donatus as authour of the schisme raised at Carthage your side came backe to the Emperour complained of the iudgement of the Bishops against them The most patient mild Emperour the second time gaue them other iudges namely the Bishops that met at Arle in Fraunce Certes the taking of an appeale made from the Bishoppe of Rome and appointing other iudges after him and besides him strongly concludeth the Princes authoritie to bee farre aboue the Popes euen in causes ecclesiasticall or as you terme them spirituall Will you lastly say that Constantine sate not iudge himselfe in this matter as well after Meltiades as after the Councell of Arle S. Austen is flat against you Your men sayth he speaking to the Donatists appealed from the Bishoppes at Arle to the Princes owne person and neuer left till the Emperour himselfe tooke the hearing of the cause betweene them both and pronounced Cicilianus innocent and those his accusers to be malitious wranglers And againe the Donatists appealed from ecclesiasticall iudgement that Constantine might heare the cause Whither when they came both partes standing before him Cecilianus was adiudged to bee innocent the Donatists ouerthrowen To proue this I will bring you sayth Austen the very wordes of Constantine taken out of his letters where hee witnesseth that vpon iudiciall hearing of both sides hee found Cecilianus to be cleare For first declaring how the parties were brought to his iudgement after two iudgements of Bishoppes alreadie past there saith Constantine I fully perceiued that Cecilianus was a man most innocent obseruing the dueties of his religion and folowing the same neither coulde any crime bee fastened on him as his aduersaries had in his absence suggested And shewing what followed vppon this iudgement Then did Constantine sayth hee first make a most sharpe lawe to punish the Donatists His sonnes continued the same read what Valentinian read when you will what Gratian and Theodosius decreed against you Why wonder you then at the children of Theodosius as if they shoulde haue followed any other president in this cause than the iudgement of Constantine which so many Christian Emperours haue kept inuiolable Though Constantine bee dead yet the iudgement of Constantine giuen against you liueth For when Emperours commaunde that which is good it is Christ and no man els that commaundeth by them Lay these thinges together and marke the consequent First the Bishoppe of Rome and his assessours were appointed by the Prince to meddle with this matter as his delegates Next vppon complaint of their partiall dealing the Prince commaunded others leauing out the Bishoppe of Rome to sit in Fraunce to conclude the same cause Thirdly the Donatistes still appealing the Prince called for both sides hearde them in his owne person gaue small iudgement with Cecilianus and discharged him as innocent therewith made a penall edict against the Donatists Fourthly these princely proceedinges of Constantine the Church of God receiued with honor and vsed with gladnesse the Christian Emperours imbraced as vertuous and confirmed as religious S. Austen alleadgeth them as substantiall proofes for the Catholikes and effectuall iudgements against the Donatistes Now speake vprightly whether in this case the Prince were not superiour to the Pope yea supreme gouernour of Ecclesiasticall persons and causes To Theodosius the elder Damasus Siricius Anastasius as I shewed before made grieuous complaints one after an other against Flauianus for entring and possessing the See of Antioch contrarie to the Canons of the church The prince sending for Flauianus heard his answere and admiring the courage and wisedome of the man willed him to returne to his countrie and feede the flocke committed to his charge notwithstanding the Bishops of Rome for the space of seuenteene yeares before would neither acknowledge him for a Bishop nor communicate with him Of Arcadius his son Innocentius the Bishop of Rome requested a Councel for the trial of Chrysostoms cause but his petition was denied his messengers sent awaie with reproach as troublers of the West Empire Chrysostom banished farther off and this edict giuen forth by Arcadius the East Emperour against those that taking part with Innocentius and fauouring
the Popes vasall Phi. Better so than worse Better farmer to the Pope than prisoner to the French and in that offer to my iudgement the Pope shewed fauour to king Iohn Theo. Such fauour a thiefe sheweth when he cutteth off both hands and letteth the head stand Phi. Compare you the Pope to a theefe Theo. I did him no wrâ—ng if I shoulde except you thinke it lesse sinne to robbe a King of his Crowne than an other man of his goods Phi. The King was content and so long it could be no robbery Theo. So is any man by the high wayes side content rather to yeelde his purse than loose his life and yet that is fellonie Phi. What right hath a theefe to an other mans purse Theo. As much as the Pope had to the Crowne of England when he forced King Iohn to yeeld it Phi. Of that we will not dispute Theo. You should but shame your selues if you did Phi. But since that surrender he hath better title to this Realme Theo. No more than he had before King Iohn was borne and that was none at all Phi. The whole Realme of England with that of Ireland with all their right and appertinentes were giuen to Innocentius and his Catholike successours and the king bound his heires and after commers for euer to doe homage and fealtie to the Bishop of Rome Theo. A faire paire of indentures but somewhat too short to conuey a Kingdom The King by an oth might make himselfe thrall during his life as perhaps he did but tie his Realme crowne to that perpetuall bondage by his single deede or chart hee could not It is wel knowen the Kinges of this Realme can not doe lesse thinges than the selling or giuing of their crownes away without the consent of their nobles commons Phi. He had the consent of his Barons Theo. That is not true The deed saith with coÌ„mon counsel or aduise of our Barons meaning such as were then by chaunce about him at Douer but the most part of his Barons detested that act and the Kinges that came after him neuer tooke them-selues bound in honour law nor conscience to respect that priuate submission of their predecessour Phi. May not a King subiect his Realme to whome hee will Theo. I thinke Lawyers will say no as well as diuines sure I am the Barons of this Realme thought no. For when the Popes Legate spake to the French king that his sonne might not disquiet king Iohn being now fendarie to the church of Rome the king of Fraunce answered The kingdom of England neither was is nor shall be S. Peters patrimonie No king nor Prince can make away his Realme without the assent of his Barons that are bound to defende the Realme and if the Pope goe on to vphold this errour he giueth a most pernicious example to all kingdomes Then all the Nobles of England for to Fraunce were they fled to accompanie their new king whome they had chosen in king Iohns place with one voice cried they would stand to maintaine this article euen with the losse of their liues that a king or prince caÌ„not at his pleasure giue or subiect his kingdome to any other to make the Nobles of his Realm seruants So that his Barons neither consented he should nor liked that he did subiect his realm to the Bishop of Rome so far were they from consenting that in words they reuiled in deedes resisted both the king the Pope and vtterly despicing the curses and comminations that came from Rome they brought in Lodouike the French kings sonne to take the crown of England from the Popes lease For when the Pope had sent first a generall and after a speciall excommunication to curse them by name that went about to take the kingdom from his vasal They said euery one of them that those buls were of no force chiefly for that the ordering of temporall affaires did not appertaine to the pope since the Lord gaue Peter his successors no power but to dispose Church matters Why theÌ„ said they doth the insatiable greedines of Romanes encroach vpon vs What haue the Bishops of Rome to do with our wars Behold they wil be the successours of Constantine not of Peter And in somwhat homely termes out vpon such shriueled ribalds as are neither valiant nor liberal yet will rule the whole world by their excommunications like ignoble vsurers and Simonistes as they are Euen so the Barons Wo be to thee the outcast of kings the abomination of English princes coÌ„fusion of English nobilitie Alas England England til this time the Queene of Prouinces but now in subiection and vnder the rule of base seruants and strangers where as nothing is viler than to be in seruitude to a seruant We reade that other kinges and princes haue striued euen vnto death for the libertie of their Landes but thou Iohn of mourneful memorie to al ages hast deuised and contriued that thy Realme being anciently free should become bound and thy selfe of a most free king a seruile tributary farmour vassall And of thee O Pope what shall we say which shouldest shine to the world as the father of holynes the myrror of godlines the tutor of righteousnes keeper of truth that thou consentest commeÌ„dest defendest such an one But for this cause doest thou maintaine the waster of English wealth and extinguisher of English nobilitie depending on thee that all may be plunged into the gulfe of Romish auarice This was the Barons complaint against king Iohn for intiteling the Pope to the crown of England though they added other things as occasions to the warres called the Barons warres I meane the lawes liberties of king Edward yet this was the ground of their grief as you may collect by their words this respect made them refuse their king and elect an other and neuer leaue pursuing him till they brought him to his end And as for the kings that came after him set his own sonne aside who to make himselfe strong against Lodouike that possessed halfe this Realme did homage to the church of Rome for his kingdome and tooke an oth for the payment of the thowsand markes granted by his father thereby to continue the Popes censures against all those that affected his crown or molested his Land not one of them euer recognised this subiection or represented this yearly pension to the Bishop of Rome but kept him off at slaues end from infringing the roialties of the crowne oppressing the liberties of the Lande more than any Realme christian of the West parts that we read Insomuch that Polydore no meane aduocate of your side concludeth this subiection and pension touched personally king Iohn and not his successours that should raigne after him By reason of king Iohns deliuering his Crowne into the Legates handes receiuing it againe as his gift It is a fame saith
heretiks from the beginning of the world to this day haue beene hampered So that your eye sight was not vp when you tooke a prayer for a iudgement a fourme of imprecation for a sentence of depriuation a curse precedent for an execution that should be subsequent Phi. This was the right and power of S. Gregorie and this hath been the fayth of christian men euer sith our Countrie was conuerted and neuer subiect called in question much lesse accused of treason for it til this time and lest of al made or found treason by the old lawes in K. Edward the thirds raigne as is pretended howsoeuer by their new Lawes they may and do make what they list a crime capitall Theo. Gregorie cursed them and prayed against them that should disorder or alter his grant made at the Princes motion with the consent of al the prelates in Italie with the good will of the Romane Senate and the fauourable iudgement of al the Bishops of France This is not it that is called in question You beare armes against your naturall prince and encourage her subiects that by Gods law should obey her to take her crowne from her when the Pope willeth them This Gregorie neuer spake of neither did England at any time frō the first receiuing of the faith to this day euer acknowledge any such right or power in the Pope to depose princes Much lesse then was this the faith of christian men euer sith our Countrie was conuerted as you brauely but falsely boast Phi. In K. Iohns time the Prince realme were of this opinion which wee are now Theo. They were not Some bishops Monks offended with the King for the losse of their goods fled the realm tooke part with the Pope against the King the Barons for other causes loued not their King as appeared by their departure frō him in Normandie before this trouble began by their general rebellion against him when the Pope had not only released him but also did vphold him to the vttermost of his power And though he had lost the hearts of his Nobilitie before now of his Clergie by turning them out of al their liuings yet was there no conspiring against him in those fiue yeres in which hee stoode excommunicate And to him for defence of himself his land came threeskore thousand able men of his own subiects wel furnished besides an infinite number that were sent home againe for want of armour and a fleete greater than that which the King of Fraunce had against him Phi. If his armie were so great and his people so sure why would he not trie the field with the king of France Theo. He saw the strife was but for the admittance of a bishop better to slip his right in so small an iniurie than to put his owne state and welfare to the doubtful successe of battaile Phi. The storie saith he was afraid lest he should bee left alone in the field bee forsaken of his own nation nobles Theo. So Pandulfus told him to afreight him make him yeelde the sooner but the Pope himself cōplaineth of the contrarie that the Barons of Englād by a peruerse order did rise in armes against their king after hee was conuerted and had satisfied the Church who assisted him when hee did offend the Church And yet I am of opinion they would easily haue forsaken him not for respect of your Romish censures but for their extreme detestation of his odious and tyrannous gouernement which they shewed after his reconciliation to the See of Rome more than they did before and obeyed neither King nor Pope so long as he liued and enioyed the Crowne This realme therfore in the time of King Iohn assisted their Prince against the Pope and when the king had submitted himselfe and rented his Crowne at the Popes handes they resisted both Prince and Pope and elected an other Afore that and since that this realm neuer confessed or beleeued any right or power in the pope to depose Princes Phi. They neuer made it treason to be of that beliefe til this miserable time in which wee lyue Theo. Richard the second very neere two hundreth yeres agoe made it death for any man to bring or sende within this realme any summons sentence or excommunication from Rome against any person for the cause of making motion assent or execution of the statute of prouisours which barred the bishoppe of Rome from giuing reseruing or disposing Bishopricks and benefices in this land To impeach the Kings lawes or to defeate him of his smaller inheritances as aduousons Patronages by censures from Rome was death in those dayes what thinke you would they haue sayd to him that shoulde haue brought a bull to depriue the Prince of his crowne or a warrant to rebel against him to take his life from him as you doe in our dayes And because you stand so much on the word treason why should not the statute of Edward the thirde recensing Treasons extend directly to your doings It is there numbred among treasons to compasse or imagine the death of the King to leuy warre against him in his Realme or to bee adherent to the Kinges enemies in his Realme or to giue them ayde and comfort within the realme or else where If al wars waged against y◠prince within the Realme that is by subiects are treasonable howe shoulde your warres for religion against your soueraigne be iust and honourable If to ayde or comfort the kinges enemies within the realme or else where be trayterous conspiracie how can you stirre vp forraine power to assault the realme perswade the people of this land with armes to displace the prince and not incurre that crime Phi. Doe wee set straungers to inuade or subiects to rebell Theo. You be adherents and instruments to him that doth Phi. You meane wee bee of the same faith with the Church of Rome If that bee treason then wee are traytours Theo. We talke not of your fayth but of your woorkes Beleeue what you list so you meddle not with ayding nor comforting inuasion nor rebellion Phi. We doe not Theo. You commend them and allowe them that wil doe either yourselfe in this place defende their enterprise to be godly iust and honorable Your fellowes before you in their printed bookes openly did celebrate them as Martyrs that lost their liues in the North for bearing armes against the Queene What greater comfort can you giue to rebels and enemies than to animate and encourage them with praises promises defences and honors both in this worlde and the next It is more pernicious to fire the heart than to warme the hand to minister courage than to giue drinke to them that shal fight against the Prince In all actions the perswaders and enducers are equal with the doers and executours Why then should you not bee within the
compasse of king Edward the thirdes statute for ayding and comforting the Queenes enemies within the realme or elsewhere Phi. You must vnderstand that wee neuer will any man to take armes but for the catholique fayth and at the commaundement of the supreme magistrate against one that was but is no Prince as being iustly deposed Theo. And you must vnderstand that the statute of Edward the third doeth neither allowe the Pope to depose the Prince nor licence the subiect to beare armes for religion against his soueraigne and therefore your warres for religion be trayterous insurrections against the Prince by the Lawes of Edward the third notwithstanding your newe found glozes that you first depose them and after resist them and pursue them with armes by the warrant of holy Churches iudgement and censure Phi. Edward the third neuer ment that to obey the Pope aboue the prince should bee treason Theo. It is not for you now to appoint his meaning His woordes are that to giue ayde or comfort to the Kings enemies and such as leuied warres against him in his realme were it the Pope the French King or whom ye will shoulde bee treason Hee had before his eyes the example of King Iohn vpon whome the Pope set the King of France with all his power for not obeying his censures from Rome he knew hee could not bee defeated of his Crowne without warre and so long as his owne subiects were trustie to him hee feared not the French nor any other that should inuade him To make himselfe therefore assured of his owne people against all men Spanish Scottish French Romish or any by whome the deede might bee doone and yet to decline the enuie of naming the Pope hee with his whole realme by their publique lawe without exception of Person or cause made it treason to giue ayde or comfort within the realme or else where to any whatsoeuer that should warre vpon the king perceiuing the generall would include the Pope or any other that hee shoulde incite against the King as well as if they were distinctly named Phi. You suppose the Prince and the people did secretly conspire against the Pope where as in those dayes they did honour him as the Soueraigne father and Pastour of their soules Theo. Howsoeuer they embraced the religion which hee professed it is euident the King and the whole realme in open Parliament made a generall consociation to repell prouisions and impetrations of ecclesiasticall dignities and offices from Rome and bound them-selues eche to other with all their might in common to withstande citations suspencions excommunications and censures comming from that Consistorie for matters decided in the Kings Courts or pertinent to the Lawes and royall liberties of this Realme and the commons did not sticke in parliament likewise to promise King Richarde the second to stand with him in all cases attempted by the Bishop of Rome against him his Crowne and his Regalitie in all points to liue and die The consociation against the procurers bringers and executours of prohibited processe from Rome was this The King the Prelates Dukes Earles Barons Nobles and other Commons Clerks and Lay people be bound by this present ordinance to aide comfort and counsel the one and the other as often as shall neede and by all the best meanes that may bee made of word and of deede to impeach such offendours and to resist their enterprises and without suffering them to inhabite abide or passe by their Seignories possessions landes iurisdictions or places and be bound to keep defend the one and the other from al damage villanie and reproofe as they should do their owne persons and for their deed and businesse and by such manner and as farreforth as such prosecutions or processe were made or attempted against them in especiall generall or in common The complainct and offer of the Commons to king Richard was this Of late diuers processes be made by our holy father the Bishop of Rome and censures of excommunication vpon certaine Bishops of England because they haue made execution of the kings commandements notwithstanding processe from the Court of Rome for the contrarie to the open disherison of the Crowne and destruction of our Soueraigne Lord the King his Law all his Realme so as the Crowne of England which hath beene so free at al times that it hath beene in subiection to no realme but immediately subiect to God and to none other in all things touching the regalitie of the same Crowne should be submitted to the Bishop of Rome and the Lawes and statutes of the realme by him defeated and destroied at his will in perpetual destruction of the king our soueraigne Lord his Crown and regalitie and of al his realme which God defend Wherefore they al the liege commons of the same realme will be with our sayd Soueraigne Lorde the King and his saide Crown and his regalitie in the cases aforesaide and in all other cases attempted against him his crowne and his regalitie in al points to liue and to die This was the auncient loue and faith of the Commons of this Land toward their Princes against the Bishop of Rome euen by name and this if you were true English or good Christian men you would rather exhort the people vnto than as you doe wish them to take weapon in hand to pull the Prince from her throne because the Bishop of Rome hath sent out his calues to disclaime her Phi. Euer sith the said S. Gregories time or thereabout all Kings in Christendome speciállie those of Spaine Fraunce Pole and England take an oth vppon the holy Euangelistes at their Coronation to keepe and defend the Catholike faith and ours of England expresly to maintaine also the priuileges and liberties of the Church and Clergie giuen by King Edward the confessour and other faithful Kings their auncestors Theo. That Kinges should take an othe to defende the Catholique fayth assist the Church of Christ wee doe not repine onely your collection is foolish if you thinke that by Catholique fayth is by and by ment your late Romish fayth or that the church can haue no priuileges nor liberties except the Pope may deale and distribute kingdomes to his liking The Princes othe in the Lawes of King Edwarde the confessour was to keepe nourish maintaine and gouerne the holy Church of his kingdome with all integritie and libertie according to the constitutions of his Fathers and predecessours But in our dayes you will not suffer the Prince to gouerne the Church of her kingdome and the Church libertie which you seeke for is a wicked impunitie for sinne and a plaine contempt of all Christian authoritie Phi. S. Thomas of Canterburie putteth his Soueraigne Henry the seconde in memorie thereof both often in speach and expressely in an epistle written to him in these woordes Memores sitis confessionis qâ—am fecistis posuistis super altare apud
but hee should deny God Hee sinned not against the king when he constantly went forward in the exercise of prayer to God Daniel therefore doeth rightly defend himself that he did no wickednesse against the king in that being bound to obey the preceptes of God he neglected the kinges commaundement to the contrary Then follow your wordes that Princes loose their right to be obeyed when they presume to commaund against God and that wee were better defie their edictes to their faces than obey them when they waxe so froward that they will put God from his right and sit in his throne Phi. For declaration of this text and for cutting off all cauillation about the interpretation of his wordes your brother Beza shall speake next who alloweth and highly commendeth in writing the fighting in Fraunce for religion against the lawes and lawfull king of that countrie saying in his Epistle dedicatorie of his new Testamēt to the Queene of England her selfe That the Nobility of France vnder the noble Prince of Condy laide the first foundation of restoring true Christian religion in France by consecrating most happily their blood to God in the battel of Druze Where of also the Ministers of the reformed French Churches as their phrase is do giue their common verdict in the confession of their faith thus We affirme that subiects must obey the Lawes pay tribute beare all burdens imposed and sustaine the yoke euen of infidel Magistrates so for all that that the supreme dominion and due of God bee not violated Theo. You haue already belied Caluine and nowe you take the like course with Beza and the French churches Their speach can bee no declaration of Caluines words if they did leane that way which you make them as they doe not therefore this is but a Friers tricke to abuse both writers Readers Phi. Beza highly commendeth the fighting in Fraunce for religion against the Lawes and lawfull king of that countrie Theo. The battell which Beza speaketh of was neither against the Lawes nor the king of that countrie That olde fore the Duke of Guise hating the Nobles of Fraunce as being himselfe a straunger and seeking to tredde them downe whom he knew inclined to religion that he might strengthen him selfe and his house to take the crowne if ought shoulde befall the kinges line as his sonne the yong Duke at this present in armes for that cause doth not sticke to professe watching his oportunitie whiles the king of Fraunce was yet vnder yeares armed him-selfe to the field as his sonne now doth and against all Lawe with open force murdered many hundreth subiectes as they were making their prayers to God in their assemblies vpon pretence that their seruice was not permitted by the Lawes of that Realme The Nobles and Princes of Fraunce perceiuing his malice seeing his iniustice that being a subiect as they were he would with priuate and armed violence murder innocents neither conuented nor condemned which the king himselfe if he had beene of age by the lawes of their Countrie could not doe gathered togither to keepe their owne liues from the fury of that violent bloodsucker and in that case if they did repell force what haue you to say against it or why should not Beza praise the Prince of Condy and others for defending the Lawes of God and that Realme against the Guises open iniurie with the consecrating of their blood most happily to God Phi. The Duke did nothing without the king and the Queene mother and therefore impugning the one they impugne the other Theo. The king was yong and in the Guises hands therefore his consent with the Peeres states of his Realme that a subiect should doe execution vpon his people by the sword without all order of iustice could bee nothing worth The king had neither age to discerne it nor freedome to denie it nor law to decree it Phi. The Queene mother had her sonne in custodie and not the Duke and with her consent were these thinges done Theo. Of the Queene mother of Fraunce I will say no more but that the auncient lawe of that Realme did barre her from the Crowne and therefore her consenting with the Guise might sharpen the doer but not authorize the deede Phi. Defend you then their bearing armes against the king Theo. To depriue the king or annoy the Realme they bare none but to saue themselues from the violent and wrongfull oppression of one that abused the kinges youth to the destruction of his lawes Nobles and commons Phi. As you say Theo. And you shall neuer proue the contrary But these thinges are without our limites Wee be scholers not souldiers diuines not lawyers English not French The circumstances of their warres no man exactly knoweth besides themselues as also we knowe not the lawes of that Land We wil therefore not enter these actes which haue so many parts precedentes causes concurrents and those to vs vnknowen and yet all to bee discussed and proued before Beza may be charged with this opinion by his cōmending the battel of Druze but will rather giue you his vndoubted iudgement out of his owne workes quite against that which you slaunder him with Purposely treating of the obedience which is due to Magistrates thus hee resolueth Quod autem attinet ad priuatos homines tenere illos oportet plurimum inter se differre iniuriam inferre iniuriam pati Iniuriam enim pati nostrum est sic praecipiente Domino suo exemplo nobis praeeunte quum nobis illam vi arcere non licet ex nostrae vocationis praescripto extra quam nefas est nobis vel pedem ponere neque aliud vllum remedium hic proponitur priuatis hominibus tyranno subiectis praeter vitae emendationem preces lacrymas As touching priuate men they must holde great difference betweene doing and suffering wrong It is our part to suffer iniurie the Lord so commaunding and teaching vs by his owne example for so much as it is not lawfull for vs to repell it with force by the prescript of our calling from the which we may not step one foote neither is there here proposed any other remedy for priuate men that are vnder a tyrant but the amending of their liues and therewithall prayers and teares And making a plaine distinction betweene not obeying and taking armes whē the Magistrate commaundeth against God hee saith This rule is firme and sure that we must obey God rather than man so often as we can not obey the preceptes of men but wee must violate the authoritie of that supreme King of Kinges and Lord of Lordes yet so that wee remember it is one thing not to obey them and an other thing to resist or take armes which God hath not permitted thee So the midwiues are praised that obeyed not Pharaoh and the Apostles and all the Prophetes and Martyrs could by no tyrants bee
the bosome of the Catholike Church as you terme it to obay their Prince against the censures of your Church Phi. I haue hast in my way Theophilus and I haue said as much as I wil at this time Theo. I can hold you Philander no longer than you liâ—t but yet remember this as you ride by the way which I reiterate because both your Seminaries shall think the better of it that as many as you reconcile so long as you teach this for a point of faith that the Pope may depose Princes and must bee obayed in those his censures of all that will be Catholikes so many both heretikes against God and traytors against the Prince you hatch vnder the hoode of religion and also that the thinges now reformed in the Church of England are both catholik and christian notwithstanding your fierce bragges and fiery wordes lately sent vs in your RHEMISH Testament To the KING euerlasting immortall inuisible vnto GOD which is only wise be honour and praise for euer and euer Amen The speciall contents of euery part The contents of thâ— first part The Iesuits pretenders of obedience Pag. 2 The causes why they fledde the Realme 5 The proofes and places of their Apologie 7 Forcing to Religion 16 Two Religions in one Realm 21 Toleraunce of error 26 Toleraunce of error in priuate places and persons 27 Compulsion to seruice and Sacraments 29 Exacting the oth 30 Their running to Rome 35 This Lande receiuing the faith from Rome 40 Preachers sent from Rome with the Kings consent 41 Preachers not conspirators froÌ„ Rome 41 Howe the Fathers soughte to Rome 42.48 Athanasius at Rome 44 Chrysostomes request to Innocentius 51 A forged Bull against Arcadius 53. Chrysostomes banishment 55 How Saint Augustine sought to Rome 56 How S. Basil sought to Rome 58 S. Ieroms letters to Damasus 60 The Rocke on the which the Church is built 62 S. Cyprian lately corrupted 65 Gratian suspected 66 Peters person laide in the foundation of the Church 67 Theodoret and Leo. 67 The Bishop of Rome resisted 68 Paul resisted Peter 69 Polycarpus resisted Anicetus 70 Polycarpus resisted Victor 70 Cyprian resisted Stephanus 71 Flauianus withstoode foure Bishops of Rome 72 Cyrillus withstoode the Bishop of Rome 72 Councels resisting the Byshop Rome 73 The Councell of Africa resisted the Byshop of Rome 74 Forged Decretals 76 The councel of Ephesus threatning the Legates of Rome 78 The Councell of Chalcedon against the Bishop of Rome 79 The Councell of Constantinople against the Bishoppe of Rome 81 CorruptioÌ„s in the CanoÌ„ lawe 81 The Brytons resisting the Bishop of Rome 82 The Grecians detesting him 83 The Germans deposing him 84 His owne Councels depose him 85. Fraunce resisting the Pope 92 Paris appealeth from him 94 The french King resisting the Pope 95 The Kinges of England against the Pope 97 Our resistaunce more lawefull than theirs 104 Peters dignitie not imparted to the Pope 104 S. Ieroms praise of Rome 105 The manners of Rome since his time 105 The manners of Rome in his time 106 S. Cyprian forced to make for Rome 106 S. Augustine forced to make for Rome 107 From Peters seate is from Peters time 107 The intent of the Seminaries 108. High experiments of Popes 112 High experiments of the Popes clergie 114 The Iesuits slaunder England and Scotland 118 What the Iesuits worke teach in this land 119 The Pope succeedeth his Auncestors neither in seate nor beliefe 12â— The contents of the second part The Princes power to COMMAVND for trueth 124 Princes be gouernours of countries Byshops be not 127 Byshops by Gods lawes subiect to Princes as well as others 128. The Prince by Gods law charged with Religion 129 Princes may commaund for religion 133 Constantine commaunding for Religion 134 Constantius commaunding Bishops in causes ecclesiastical 135. Iustinian commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 137 Charles commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 139 The lawes of Charles for causes Ecclesiasticall 140 Ludoâ—ikes lawes for causes Ecclesiasticall 144 Ludouikes lawes visitors 144 What is ment by SVPREME 146. Supreme is subiect to none on earth 146 Princes subiect onely to God 147. Princes not subiect to the Pope 147. The Pope subiect to his Prince 148. Constantine superiour to the Pope in causes ecclesiastical 150 Emperours superiour to the pope in causes Ecclesiasticall 152 The Prince superiour to the Pope 160 Ieremies words expounded 160 How Prophets may plant and roote out kingdoms 161 Howe Kinges must serue the Church 162 How Byshops are to be obeied 164 How the Church is superiâ—ur to Princes 167 What is ment by the Church 168. The Prince not aboue the Church 171 Princes haue power ouer the persons of the Church 172 The woordes of S. Ambrose to Valentinian 173 The behauiour of S. Ambrose towards Valentinian 174 Valentinian refused to be iudge betweene Byshops 177 Valentinians fault 178 Theodosius searched and established the trueth 178 Princes decreeing for truth 179 Athanasius Osius Leontius 179 Athanasius reproued Constantius 180 Athanasius expounded 181 Why Constantius was reproued 182 Osius words examined 188 Leontius discussed 189 What Hilarie misliked in Constantius 190 Kings commended in the scriptures for medling with religion 191 Moses â—oshuaes example 192 King Dauids care for religioÌ„ 193 Princes charged with the whole law of God 194 Asa Iehosaphat Ezekiah perfourmed that charge 193 Manasses Idolatry repeÌ„tance 196 Iosiah reformed religion 197 Nehemiah correcteth the high Priests doings 197 Princes medled with religioÌ„ 198 Princes vsed to commaund for religion 198 God commaÌ„deth by their harts 199. Princes commanding for Religion 200 Princes haue ful power to command for trueth 202 Princes may prohibite and punish error 203 To commaund for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with Princes 204 To commaund Bishops for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with auntient Princes 206 The Iesuites purposely mistake the Princes supremacie 213 The Iesuits cauelling absurdities against the Popes power 221 This land oweth no subiection to tribunals abroade 228 This lande not subiect to the Popes tribunall 229 What subiection the Pope requireth 231 The Pope maketh it sacrilege blasphemie to doubt of his tribunall 231 A right Rhomish subiection 232 Patriarks of the west 233 Patriarks subiect to Princes 234 This Realme not in the Popes Prouince 135 The Patriarkeâ—dome dissolued 235 The words of the oth examined 236 It is easie to plaie with wordes 237 Princes gouerne with the sword Bishops do not 238 Princes only beare the sword in all spirituall things causes 238. Princes supreme bearers of the sword 240 Supreme gouernour displaceth not Christ. 241 Princes may not commaunde against the faith or Canons 242. Gregorie shamefully corrupted 243. Spirituall men aâ— matters 244. Carnall things called spirituall 245 Carnall thinges made spirituall to increase the Popes power and gaine 245 Carnall things made spirituall 246 Princes charged with spirituall things 247 Princes chiefely charged with things truly spirituall 247 Princes charged at Gods hands with things spirituall not
THE TRVE DIFFERENCE BETVVEENE CHRISTIAN SVBIECTION AND VNCHRISTIAN REBELLION WHEREIN THE PRINCES LAWFVLL power to commaund for trueth and indepriuable right to beare the sword are defended against the Popes censures and the Iesuits sophismes vttered in their APOLOGIE and DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES With a demonstration that the thinges refourmed in the Church of England by the Lawes of this Realme are truely Catholike notwithstanding the vaine shew made to the contrary in their late Rhemish Testament by THOMAS BILSON Warden of Winchester Perused and allowed by publike authoritie Matth. 22. Yeelde to Caesar the things which are Caesars and to God the things which are Gods August contra epist. Permen Lib. 1. Cap. 7. These men inobedient and impious in either neither yeeld Christian loue to God nor humane feare to Princes AT OXFORD Printed by Ioseph Barnes Printer to the Vniuersitie MDXXCV TO THE MOST EXCELLENT VERTVOVS AND NOBLE PRINCESSE ELIZABETH BY THE GRACE OF GOD QVEENE OF ENGland France and Ireland Defendor of the faith c. MOST RENOWMED AND VERtuous Princesse I am in hope it shall seeme no presumption to offer these my rude labours to the sight view of your Maiestie The cause is Christs as being the defence of his will and ordinance who hath mercifully placed and mightily preserued your Highnes in your fathers throne and expecteth as it were in recompence that the power which he hath giuen you and honor which hee hath heaped on you should bee imployed to protect his trueth and safegarde his Church within your Realme Which your religious and gratious disposition so wisely considereth and so carefully putteth in execution that not onely with good liking you beare the title to bee DEFENDOR of the Christian faith but with manie daungers and some enuie you stoupe to the verie burden of harbouring the afflicted and helping the distressed by all conuenient and godly meanes not refusing with Princely courage and constancie to endure the displeasures and abide the disfauours of such as seeke to restoare or vphold the decayed and accursed kingdome of Antichrist A thing rare in so high a state but a great blessing from God our Sauiour to be both protectour of his persecuted seruaunts and partaker of his sonnes reproches which perhappes worldly mindes doe warilie shun but your Christian wisedome well perceiueth to be the assured signe of Gods fauour and to haue his vndoubted promise of an immortall and farre more glorious Crowne than this which hee hath alreadie possessed you with This good long experience of your Maiesties most willing inclination and affection to plant pietie and relieue innocencie might embolden mee if there were no farther cause to presse to your Highnesse for the Patronage of so good a purpose but as the case nowe standeth besides this generall inducement I haue a speciall â—nforcement to leade mee to this onset The whole discourse doth so directly and namely treate of your Maiesties Scepter Sworde and Crowne that neither I might aske protection of anie other but of your royall person nor such demurres be published without your Highnesse leaue So is it most gratious Soueraigne that certaine your subiectes borne forsaking your happie gouernment and their natiue Countrie vpon doubt of Religion as they pretend haue feated themselues in two Societies or Colleges which they call Seminaries founded and furnished at the Popes charges beyond the Seas the one at Rome the other at Rhemes with purpose thither to drawe the best wittes out of England as well from both vniuersities as from other Grammer schooles there to traine them to their fansies and faction and thence to direct them backe into this Realme for the reconciling of poore soules as they say to the Catholike Church or in truer termes for the peruerting of simple and ignorant persons from the duetie which they owe to God and your Highnesse This attempt beeing throughlie looked into by the Lordes and others of your Maiesties most wise and worthie Counsel was thought as in deede it is verie dangerous and pernicious to your Realme that the capitall enuier of your state disturber of your peace and pursuer of your person should allure and abuse so great a number of your subiectes with a shewe of liberalitie and haue them in such bondage by the Rules of their Societie that they must obeie the will of their SVPERIOR the Popes Agent among them none other-wise than they would the voice of Christ from heauen for so them-selues professe and thereupon by your Highnesse authoritie proclamation was giuen out that none should depart the Realme without licence and a time prefixed for those that were abroade to returne home vpon some paines there specified farther threats if your Highnesse were thereunto prouoked The Guiders of these vngodlie Societies in steede of obeying your Highnesse edict fell to defend their owne act in departing this Land and resorting to Rome as also the Popes intent in erecting those Seminaries and appoincting a number of them to be sent into England to reduce the Realme to the Romish obedience which they call the faith of their fathers And because they were to laie the fault of their vnlawful departure long absence either on them-selues which they would not or on the state from which they were estraunged they declaring their founder by their fruites spared not in a slaunderous pamphlet of theirs intitled An Apologie and tâ—â—e declaration of the institution and 〈◊〉 of the two Englishe Colledges to charge your Christian milde and aduised regiment with no lesse crimes than heresie tyrannie and blasphemie as the onely causes why they departed and absented themselues so long from their naturall countrie agâ—ising none of your Ecclesiasticall Lawes to bee orderlie or duelie made but calling them straunge and vnnaturall dealings violent disorders which to all posteritie must needes breede shame rebuke repugnant to the lawes of God the church nature and most of all spurning at the act and othe which abolished the Popes vsurped power out of this Realme and declared your Highnesse to bee the SVPREME bearer of the sworde and establisher of publike Lawes within your Dominions a power confirmed to Princes by God and therefore not to be infringed or claimed by Priestes or Popes And to make their matter more saleable in the eares of the simple they vsed all their Rhemish art and eloquence to deface and traduce that right of your authoritie and bande of our obedience with cauilling Sophismes florishing termes as if that SOVERAIGNTIE vsed by your Highnesse were a thing improbable vnreasonable vnnaturall impossible and the O THE yeelded by vs intollerable repugnant to God the Church your Maiesties honour and al mens consciences Of such wastfull words and mightie bragges that booke is full hauing otherwise for matter and proofe nothing in it that is worth the reading much lesse the answering as being rather a Rhetoricall declamation of an vngracious witte than a substantiall confirmation of their actes and
to this infection might perceiue the way to recouer their former health temperatly that the enimy should not thinke himselfe rather illuded then aunswered Which if it please your most excellent Maiestie to like alow that it may passe to the hands of your people I trust in Christ that such as haue any feare of God before their â—yes and care of life to come will hold themselues satisfied and the rest be better aduised before they runne headlong into that extreeme perdition of bodie soule and horrible downefall of disobedience and infidelity to God and their Prince The king of kings and Lord of Lordes blesse and preserue your Maiestie and as hee hath begun a good and glorious worke in you and in this Realme by you so continue the same by lightening you with his holie Spirit and defending you with his mightie arme as hee hath doone from the daie that hee chose you to bee the Leader and Guider of his People that you maie long keepe them in trueth and peace by the assistaunce of his grace to the praise of his glorie increase of the Godlie and griefe of his and your enimies Euen so Lord Iesus Your Maiesties most humble and dutifull subiect THOMAS BILSON THE GENERALL CONTENTS of euerie part The first part Examineth all the proofes and places of the Iesuits Apologie their forsaking the Realme and running to Rome what aid the Fathers sought at Rome and how the Bishop thereof in all ages hath beene resisted the intent of his Seminaries and vertues of his Clergy The second part Prooueth the Princes supreme power to commaund for truth within her Realme and the Pope to haue beene a duetifull subiect to the Romane Emperors Ecclesiastical Lawes for eight hundred yeares and vpward answereth the Iesuites authorities and absurdities heaped against the Princes regiment searcheth the safest way for the Princes direction in matters of religion and concludeth the Pope in doubts of doctrine to be no sufficient nor superiour iudge The third part Refelleth the Iesuits reasons and authorities for the Popes depriuing of Princes the bearing of armes by subiects against their Soueraignes vpon his censures declareth the tyrannies and iniuries of Antichrist seeking to exalt himselfe aboue kings Princes conuinceth that no deposition was offered by the Pope for a thousand yeres after Christ and none agnised by anie Christian Prince vntil this present day The fourth part Sheweth the reformation of this Realme to be warranted by the woord of God and the auncient faith of Christs Church and the Iesuites for all their crakes to bee nothing lesse than Catholikes To the Christian Reader IT is some time since good Christian Reader that lighting on the Iesuits Apologie I receiued the same with purpose to refute it if the matter so imported Perusing it ouer I found it curiouslie penned with picked termes and beautified with plausible and popular persuasions reasons but as for substaÌ„ce or learning or weight of proofe I saw nothing in it that should occupie a meane Scholer the space of two daies Laying that booke therefore aside I determined at mine own choice and libertie to handle the matters there most impugned I meane the othe and the Princes supremacy in such sort as men of meane capacitie abused by their secret whisperinges and open raylings might plainly perceiue both the Princes power to commaund for truth to be lawfull and good and the Iesuits cauils impugning the same to be vaine and childish As I was in this resolution saw no cause for that I should refute no direct aduersarie to make more hast than both health which was not great businesse which I cannot want would suffer me there hapned an iniurie to bee offered to the inheritance of the College where I am by a false title deriued from before the foundation of the house and so strengthened on euery side with auncient deedes and euidence that the forgerie was hard to bee discerned and harder to be conuinced but by infinite searching in the muniments of many churches and Bishopricks as well as in our owne and re-examining sundrie large and laborious commissions which they had taken out before my time to testifie the keeping and iustifie the deliuering of those suspected deedes and ligiers To the deâ—ecting and impugning of this no person was or would be vsed I speake for the paines and not for the skill but my selfe the cause was so huge the comparing of the circumstances and contrarieties both of deeds and witnesses so tedious the proofe so perplexed and intricate and the daunger so neerely touched the whole state of the house I was forced for two yeares to lay all studies aside and addict my selfe wholy first to the deprehending and then to the pursuing of this falsehood No sooner had I breathed from this vnwoonted trauell and betaken my selfe to my former purpose but my happe was to light on the Iesuites Defence of English Catholikes not hauing the Authors name but in order of writing and phrase of speech resembling right D. Allen the maker of their Apologie Looking earnestly into the contents thereof I perceiued the pen-man to haue such confidence in his tongue that hee doubted not but to ouerrule the world with words his pretensed policies So far he wadeth in other mens causes and common wealthes So boldly he pronounceth what himselfe pleaseth of Popes and princes and of their titles Counselles Lawes and actions neither alloweth hee any man to bee religious or catholike but such as him-selfe liketh and euerie-where hee sheweth a speciall care to smooth and stroke his holy Fathers indeuors and censures actes and iudgementes warres and wickednesse with termes of the greatest deuotion and reuerence subiecting all things vnder his feete inuesting him with both swords and suffering no man king nor Cesar to haue assurance of honor or life longer than he kneeleth downe and adoreth the image of the beast In this maiestical course surrly conceit hee goeth on thinking he can captiuate kingdomes with the volubilitie and intemperauncy of his tongue which is so swift to furnish a lie that he disdaineth the basenesse plainesse of trueth The saucinesse and egernesse of that Defence I was then and am yet persuaded to ouerskip as hauing learned that princes affaires and actions are aboue my vocation and wholy without my profession neither doe I thinke it lawfull for priuate men rashly to speake or possible for them vprightly to iudge of Princes doinges vnlesse they be fully acquainted with the secretes and circumstances of the things which Princes vse not to commit to many nor to any but those that are of their counsell I therefore then did now do determine to leaue this peremptorie prater whosoeuer he be to his own vaine knowing that besides open rightes and titles secret preuentions are often vsed betweene Realmes and sometimes reuenges which Magistrates by lawful meanes may procure Onely the Popes power to depriue Princes which with all his skill learning
and eloquence hee seeketh to proue and perswade to the people of this Realme as the chiefest Bulwark of their Defence that were condemned he saith for religion we say for treason and in deed the very ground of all their actions I thought needefull to examine and to let the simple see on what a sandy slime they haue built as well their consciences as their Colleges and in how wretched and vnrighteous a quarell they haue hazarded their liues in this world and their soules in the next to inlarge the power and make vp the purse of their Rhemish founder Taking that therefore in hande I haue worde by worde refelled the fifth chapter of their Defence which purposely treateth of this matter and inserted so much of the fourth as tended to this ende the rest being a voluntarie pang of their vnbridled eloquencc as also I haue ripped vp the shamefull attemptes and tumults of Popes these last fiue hundred yeares for before that time Antichrist neither was nor durst be so bold presuming to displace depose their Lord Maister the Romane Emperor incountering him other Princes with treasons poysons battayles bloodsheds periuries treacheries such as Christendom neuer before tasted of euer since rued Where I haue not only opened the facts noted the meeknes of their martial spirits but haue vnfoulded the causes quarels for which those Princes were thus pursued with such excommunications and depriuations from Rome shewing as I go the Italian stories in fauour of their countrieman and foreman the Pope to bee exceeding partiall The like order I would haue followed in their Apologie but that as I first protested I found nothing in it worthy to bee refuted vnlesse I should haue banded their idle and emptie termes backe againe to them with others of the same making and so brought the cause of Christ and trueth of Religion to a warfare of woordes which I neither ought nor would If any man thinke me no indifferent iudge of their paines it may please him to cast his eye on the second sheete and hee shall find all the proofes and places of their Apologie aunswered in three leanes and of those fewe and weake quotations to haue made a conquest in open writing had beene incke and paper ill imployed I would therefore not take that course which seemed to me neither needeful nor profitable but to benefite the poore deceiued subiectes of this Realme and bring the Iesuites cause to the touch-stone in deede I haue chosen the principall intentes of their Apologie on which their whole foundation standeth and after mine owne course debated them more exactly and largely than the confutation of their Apology would haue suffered me For where they pretend they departed for lacke of the Catholike Sacrifice Sacramentes and Seruice which want in this Realme and because they were forced by oth to confesse an vnnaturall and impossible power in the Prince to be supreme Gouernour of all persons and causes as well ecclesiasticall as temporall and in their absence they resort for reliefe to none but to him that is the head of their catholike communion the chiefe Pastour and Bishoppe of their soules in earth and the vicar generall of Christ to whose predecessors all the famous Fathers called for aide comfort and counsell in their like distresses and traine vppe such as come vnto them in obedience to the churches Lawes Apostolike Traditions both written and vnwritten and to the precepts of Ancients Superiours who haue the promised spirit of trueth and are sent backe againe into this Land to execute spirituall offices and to absolue in foro conscientiae the penitent people from their sinnes of what sort soeuer schisme and heresie not excepted who seeth not that these assertions being the seueral braÌ„ches of their Apologie depend either on religion that is in strife betwixt vs or on the Princes power which they impugne or on the Popes claime to bee head of the church which we deny And therefore the proofe or disproofe of their particular actions must be fet and deriued from those chiefe and capitall springs The consideration whereof first induced mee to neglect the rouing discourses and vaunting florishes of their Apologie no lesse voide of trueth than of proofe and to betake my selfe to a stricter and directer kinde of examining the most materiall pointes on which the rest did hang as first their running to Rome siding themselues with the Pope as Christs Vicar generall against their Prince for which they haue no president in the primatiue Church The next is the princes power to commaund for trueth and right to beare the sword within her owne Realme ouer all persons for thinges and causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall without any subiection or relation to the Popes tribunall which I prooue is agreeable to the Lawes of God and practise of Christes church and therefore the oth importing the same to be good and godlie Thirdly the Popes censuring and depriuing princes of their crownes I shew to be nothing else but a wicked vnchristian pride contumelie not long since deuised by Antichrist to frustrate the word and ordinance of almighty God and to make himselfe great and so of force the subiects which be partakers with him in that hainous conspiracie by perswading assisting executing or defending the same in worde or deede against their princes to bee traytours and not martyrs if they die for that quarell Lastly the publique reformation of diuine Sacramentes and Seruice made by her Maiestie I declare to be Christian and Catholike and the partes of poperie repealed and abolished by the lawes of this Realme to be repugnant I speak for the substance of theÌ„ and not for certain indifferent ceremonies in them to the sacred scriptures and ancient fathers Other incident and adiacent matters I haue handled and those not a fewe as the generall and speciall contentes before and after will better insinuate but these foure bee the pointes that beare the burden both of their first Apologie for their Seminaries and last Defence of English Catholikes By these shal we soone discerne the truth or falshood of their pretences clamors against the Princes Lawes and such as are authorized by her highnesse therefore from the sober sad discussing hereof if they get them as they haue done to outragious and tragicall exclamations we must leaue them as men wilfully diuerting from the right way crying as loude as they can for life to drowne the voices of such as woulde recall them If they looke that all the parts of their Defence should haue bin answered in like sort as the fifth chapter is that labour I say for a man of my calling wold haue bin as fruitles as it is needles the proofs that are not here discussed may â—afely be despised the rest of their rolling rhetorik a diuine neither need regard nor should repeate As much as is inforcing to their purpose is here
coÌ„prised their politik obseruations as they be for the most part fals passing slaÌ„derous so to their defeÌ„ce are they idle altogether superfluous and argue rather mindes loaden with malice and tongues fraighted with poyson against the present state euen for very temporall and ciuill affaires than anie religious or dutifull respect of authoritie and submission to the Magistrate But such is the doctrine and education of their Romish seminaries they fell first to flattering and because that tooke no place in a rage they be now run to leude and open slaundering An example whereof to him that hath the booke and may read it appeareth as through the the whole so in fewe lines pag. 177. more spitefull wordes than which the rankest caterpiller in Rome could not haue vttered against the state and kingdom where wee liue not touching the persecution which they suffer but obiecting in plaine wordes to the whole body of her Maiesties most honorable most christian Counsel ignominious practises plaguie iniustice yea euen piracies proditions spiâ—ries soule artes to afflict and coosen the world round about vs with many such disloyall vnnaturall vntrue and vnhonest both surmises and reproches whereof that fardle is full This is one of the reasons why I neither might nor would at large refell their Iesuiticall Defence of English Catholikes as they terme it in deede an artificiall inuectiue defacing and slaundering the publike Gouernment of this realme to the vttermost of their powers The other is for that the summe and effect of those chapters which I haue omitted and might not without offence to the state be published are wholy reduced to those principal questions which I haue handled In their first second and fourth chapters their chiefe scopes are these that Manie Priests catholike in England haue bin condemned executed for meere matter of religion that Campian the rest of the Priests condemned executed vpon pretence of treason were neuer yet guiltie of any such crimes but behaued themselues verie discreetly and nothing seditiously in their answeres to the questions of the Bull of Pius Quintus In these the wise Reader soone perceiueth the whole contention toucheth the Popes iurisdiction and claime denied him by the Lawes of this Realme and his power to depriue the Prince of her crowne and scepter which was the sole respect the Bull of Pius Quintus had The iustifying then of these two foundations with cleare and pregnant proofes had beene requisite for the Iesuites if they had purposed to manifest the innocencie of their brethren where nowe by their rhetoricall vagaries inucighing at the partes and circumstances of their inditementes conuictions and executions they storme at the course which the Iudges obserued but saie nothing to the crime wherewith the guiltie were burdened The Popes power to depriue Princes they will say they haue fully proued and so their brethren in trueth and equitie to be cleared If that were so they sayde somewhat but as I haue shewed they profferre it often they neuer proue it And therefore on the contrarie part as I neede not strengthen the publike iudgements of this Realme with the particular reportes behauiors hopes and enterprises of the Iesuites hauing their triall in Courtes of Recorde and places of vsuall and open iustice neither is that incident to my calling or requisite in these cases so for the maine and generall ground of the crime there fastned on them and after punished in theÌ„ which was that to aide assist persuade or defend the Popes Bull depriuing the Prince of her crowne and throne to incourage her Subiectes or enimies on that pretence to rebellion or inuasion was high and hainous treason the trueth I say of this illation is euident by the third part of this my booke where that point of their Defence is refuted So for the rest which would needes venter their liues in the like quarell I meane for inuesting the Pope with the princes sworde the Iesuites should haue brought sound and sufficient proofe that the Pope by Gods lawe hath a Soueraigne and supreme power ouer this Realme to make Lawes to appoint penalties to dispose the goods landes and bodies of Clerkes and others for such causes and crimes as they count spirituall For this is the power which the Pope lately vsurped in this Realme and from which hee is now rightly and orderly repelled by the Lawes of the same It is no treason with vs to make him chiefe Pastour of your soules nor to giue him an Episcopall or Apostolicall authoritie ouer the whole Church though that also bee a wicked and frantike Heresie but to giue him an externall dominion and coerciue iurisdiction ouer this Realme aboue and against the Prince which the Apostles of Christ neither had nor could haue without apparent iniurie to the Magistrate this is it the Execution of iustice doeth duelie respect and this is farre from any matter of faith or religion Right to commaunde and power to compell belong properly to the sworde by the Lawe of God which they can not attribute to the Pope but they must make him a Superiour Magistrate to the prince in guiding and prescribing the vse of the sworde and consequently the prince to holde her sword and scepter at his pleasure and if she refuse to be streightway displaced This wilie conueiaunce to tie Princes swordes fast to the Popes side and to spoyle them of their Crownes if they doe not execute his rage is the chiefest plotte that Iesuites haue at this instant to resettle the kingdome of Antichrist for which they haue not so much as the paring of anie Scripture or Councell or Father in the Church of Christ for a thowsande yeares and yet in our dayes it must bee a meere matter of Religion and the forefront of their brethrens defence But no maruell if they which make open rebellion a point of their faith so soone consent to haue the Popes presumption holden as the surest key of their Religion To their thirde chapter that they haue great cause to complaine of iniust persecution intollerable seueritie and crueltie towardes Catholikes in Englande and wee no reason to doe the like for the iustice as thy call it doone on vs in Queene Maries and other Princes dayes I neede not replie To this conceite of the Iesuites that they may consume whome they will with fire and faggotte and no man must stoppe them of their passage or hinder their pastimes without iniustice and crueltie what shoulde I saie but that I thinâ—e the Scribe was skant waking whiles hee was penning this drowsie Diuinitie What learning I will not aske what witte was in this to make such definitiue resolutions that no Prince may amerce or imprison their adherentes without intollerable seueritie and crueltie forsooth they might hang and burne olde and young men and women for doubting of their Decretalles and all this with prayse though it neuer pleased anie good man in the Catholike Church
that Heretikes should be put to death for onely religion as S. Augustine verie earnestly auoucheth Their sixt chapter is a maruelous profound Rhetorication that it is much to the benefite and stabilitie of Common wealthes and specially of Kinges Scepters that the differences betwixt them and their people for Religion or any other cause for which them may seeme to deserue depriuation may rather be decided by the Pope as the Iesuits would haue it and so they shall be on the surest side than by Popular mutinie and phantasie of priuate men as wee desire and practise or else they bely vs which is no wonder in such Seminists To these trifling and tedious discourses of men trusting wholie to their tongues and seeking with deintie speach and couched termes to hoodwinck Princes eyes and delight subiects eares that all the world may daunce in a string after the pope and his nourceries what other aunswer should we giue then that if there were not a God to be serued and honoured who hath committed the sword to Princes and will exact at their hands the well vsing of the same for the publike maintenance of his will and worship surely Princes should doe more safely to followe that aduise of the Iesuits For their holie father will neuer leaue practising by all the meanes hee possibly may to subuert their states and shorten their liues except they receiue his keyes and busse his shoes The warres of Ireland and dangers of England which this roming man so much bableth of as matters of State I referre to such as be Common-wealth men I will not passe the bounds of my profession the Pope may continue his olde worme-eaten claime to the Soueraigntie of Ireland which these louing subiects pleade in open writing against the Crowne of England and God no doubt hath meanes enow to visite our sinnes vnlesse it please him to be mercifull and gracious to this Realme but as we from the bottome of our harts submit our selues to his holy will and wisdome as well to tast of his chastisement whereof all his children are partakers as to enioy his blessings so let these prophane Rouers and Vaunters vnderstand that the arme of God is long enough to reach euen them and their holy father at Rome and to take from him his desired vsurpation of the kingdomes of England Scotland Fraunce and Spaine c. though he shuffle neuer so shamefully to keepe them in his obeysaunce For the matters handled this may suffice for the manner I haue not many thinges good Christian Reader to warne thee of By forme of Dialogues I thought best to lay open the whole before thine eyes as well for auoiding of tedious repetitions as for adding of perspicuitie to the pointes which I would haue knowen to the simpler sort as farre as the nature and weight of the thinges them-selues permit And being to refute no certaine text I was constrained to take this course that I might in the aduersaries person obiect not only what they had said if it were worth the hearing but I am sure what they could say that the matter might be more manifest If any thinke I fauour my selfe in opposing besides that in euery part I bring the very choice of their strongest and latest proofs as in the first and second part their Apologie in the third their Defence of Catholikes in the fourth their Rhemish Testament whether I spare to presse and persue the same to the vttermost let the Christian Reader in Gods name be my iudge It may be the aduersarie would haue often replied in hotter and larger manner but my intent was to discusse the thinges and not to holde on a brable in wordes and of that which to any purpose might bee saide I haue omitted nothing And yet somtimes though seeldom where the place so forceth I stick a little at a letter and shew howe greate a chaunge it maketh in the sense which is soone missed in the printe As where in Sainct Augustine they printe Esset I thinke it should bee Esse And so likewise in Chrysostome whose Greeke exemplar I then hadde not when I first mistrusted the Latine the worde is printed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suffer thy selfe to bee intreated to write Which the verbes precedent consequent import should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suffer your selues to be intreated to write so the other parte of the sentence doth plainly conuince where hee saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and graunt vs to enioy your letters still your loue and all other things as before for is easily ouerseene and yet in the matter the difference is much though not so much that it shoulde either helpe them or hurte vs as they perhaps will imagine In these and such like corrections of words or printes I leaue the learned reader to his iudgement when he considereth the sentence and yet I see no reason why the aduersarie should builde himselfe on such suspected places In the fourth parte I haue examined the chiefe and publike actions of the Rhomish Church which are nowe reformed by the lawes of this Realme and not only refuted them as vncatholike but confirmed the Sacramentes and Seruice of the Church of England to bee consonant to the sacred Scriptures and Catholike Fathers In handling the which where their Rhemish Testament offered any shew of proofe I haue particularly refelled their authorities where they fayled I was constrained to make the Iesuite supply of his owne the best obiections that they haue Other thinges named in the beginning of my fourth parte because the volume increased and they were not so materiall partes of the Church Seruice as the former I haue reserued to bee handled by themselues in a seuerall treatie Of quotations and translations I had speciall care in my copy that they should be direct and true howsoeuer the Composers haue now and then displaced the one and in the other not distinguished my additions which I sometimes interserted to illustrate the rest with an other letter and two inclosures in my copy and this caueat I am forced to giue thee gentle Reader that whatsoeuer in alleaging is inclosed with two halfe Moones though it bee the same letter with the rest yet it is no part of that authoritie which I cite but my adiection to shewe the force of the place I produced because I could not stand beating on euerie word without extreme losse of time and labour The Lord treade downe Satan vnder our feete that the honour may bee his and the comfort ours and abolish the strength of wickednesse till his comming THE TRVE DIFFERENCE BETWEENE CHRISTIAN SVBIECTION AND VNCHRISTIAN REBELLION THE FIRST PART EXAMINETH ALL THE PROOFES AND places of the Iesuits Apologie their forsaking the Realme and running to Rome what aide the Fathers sought at Rome and how the Bishop thereof in all ages hath beene resisted the intent of his Seminaries and vertues of his Clergie THEOPHILVS the Christian. PHILANDER the Iesuite THEOPH
It is so long since I saw you Philander that I had almost forgotten you I thought I should remember your face but this apparell made me doubt of you Philand Euen he Theophilus and though you haue descried me where I would not be knowen yet I trust for olde acquaintance you meane me no harme Theo. If you be as far from doing euill as I am from wishing you euill I dare warrant you for any hurt you shall haue but what meaneth this strange attire are you wearie of a studients life that you fall to ruffling in your latter daies Phil. Not choice Theophilus but feare driueth me to this I take small pride in going thus disguised Theo. What neede you feare if you be faultlesse true men hide not their heades Phi. Not where truth may take place but where falshood ouer beareth all it is time for true men to hide their heads except they wil loose them Theo. Is your case so desperate that you stand in danger of loosing your head Phil. Not my deserts but the rigour of your lawes giue me iust cause to feare that which so many of our side haue felt Theo. Your frindes neuer felt the least part of that they did to others neither haue they cause to complaine but of too much ease Phil. You haue spoyled them of their goods cast them in prisons among theeues hanged them as traitours call you this ease what could they feele worse what could you do more Theo. Whom meane you the Northren rebels or Irish conspiratours that were thus hardly dealt with Phi. As though you knew not whom I meant Their heads and quarters pitched in rowes on your gates and bridges are to this day witnesses of their constancie and momiments of your cruelty Theo. Though I can gesse you only ean tell whom you meane Belike the Iesuits that lately suffered for Treason Phi. Treason was obiected to them for a colour to make them odious to the people but in deede religion was the very cause why they were condemned for would they haue recanted their faith they should neuer haue bene brought to the barre Theo. It may be Pardon was offered them so they would recant their Trayterous assertion that Popes at their pleasures may depose Princes and discharge their subiects from all obedience which Christian mildnes in seeking their amendment and shewing them so much fauour doth not quite them from the lewdnes of their enterprise The Princes mercy is no proofe of their innocencie But in sadnes Philander are you since your departure become a Iesuite that you take their part so freshly Phi. The question you aske mee is very dangerous considering the straitnes of your lawes Yet promise me that you will not bewray me and I wil be plaine with you what I am I loue not to dissemble much lesse to deny my vocation Theo. Promise me likewise that you wil attempt nothing against your duetie to God and your Soueraigne and I wil do the best I can for your safety Without this condition I may not yeeld to your petition Phi. I require no more but will you performe that Theo. None so deceitfull as those that be most mistrustfull Hauing our former acquaintance for a warrant and my promise now made you for your better securitie why feare you Phi. Blame mee not if I bee somewhat curious in disclosing my selfe life is sweete and that nowe must I put wholly into your hands which is no smale aduenture Theo. Were your life in my hands as it is not you should well perceiue wee delight not in blood Howbeit you cast greater perill than you neede The lawes of this lande doe not touch you so neere for entering the new found order of Iesuits neither for infecting the simple with the leauen of your doctrine but onely for making deuotion a cloke for sedition Leaue your vndermyning the Princes right state by these secrete and suttle meanes I see no daunger of death that is toward you Phi. If I be taken with any practise against the Prince I refuse no kind of torment onely from preaching publishing the Catholique faith I neither can nor wil be drawen Theo. Wel profered if it be wel performed In deed true Christians euer endured neuer displaced Princes no not when they were tyrants heretiques for God is not serued with resisting the sword which himselfe hath ordeyned to cherish the good chasten the bad but with duetiful obedience to Magistrates when their lawes agree with his in case their willes be dissonant from his thē is he serued with meekenes readines to beare and abyde that which earthly powers shall inflict And this was the cause why the Church of Christ alwayes reioyced in the blood of her Martyrs patiently suffering the cruell rage both of Pagans and Arrians and neuer fauoured any tumult of rebelles assembling themselues to withstande authoritie Phi. Tell vs that we knowe not this we neuer doubted of Theo. Then if your late Iesuites were sent hither as Pioners to make ready the way for the Popes bull that should disherite the Prince and giue her crowne to an other what say you were they iustly condemned for Treason or no Phi. You shall neuer be able to proue them sent to that end Theo. I doe not as yet say they were but what if they were doe you thinke them Martyrs or Traytours Phi. I am sure they were not For I my selfe came in the same message with them and knowe what charge was giuen both to them and to me that in no wise we should meddle with matters of state Theo. I thought all this while by the counterfaiting of your apparell and earnest defending of Iesuites that you were of that crewe Phi. You vrge mee so farre that I can not conceale it The truth is I am of their societie and haue so been euer since my last going beyond the Seas and am now sent backe with others to labour the conuersion of this Realme and to reconcile men to the Catholique fayth and Apostolique Sea for the sauing of their soules Theo. I am the more sory for it if sorow would helpe your lighting on them was vnhappy your ioyning with them is vngodly Phi. You do the men great wrong to carie that hard opinion of them without cause for my part I protest I neuer mette with a more religious vertuous and learned company than the Iesuites are Theo. You take light occasions to set forth your owne prayses as if it were a poynt of perfection to commend your selues Phi. Though we striue to excell others in learning and vertue which we lawfully may yet bragge we not of it Theo. You need not The maker of your Apologie doth it for you whose fingers ytched till he came to the comparing and aduancing of himselfe and his fellowes in this insolent manner Our wittes sayth he be of God in as plentifull measure as theirs our foundation in all kinde of faculties requisite
the truth of Christ which is all that Sainct Hierom saith what inferre you thence that Rome is now the like This illation commeth twelue hundred yeares too short of your antecedent and no waie dependeth vpon S. Hieroms wordes vnlesse you thinke that Rome now because shee beareth the same name must also chalenge the same vertues and praises which Rome so longe since both had and deserued which were verie ridiculous But is this all you will adde before you growe to your maine conclusion Phi. The greatest part is yet behinde For as I beganne whither shoulde we rather flie than to him whose Predecessors gaue vs our first faith in the time of the Britanes restored it after in the dayes of the English recouered vs from Paganisme from Arianisme from Pelagianisme from Zwinglianisme often receiued harbored and releeued diuerse blessed Bishops and Priestes of our nation as well in the times of their prosperitie as persecution and who haue receiued againe of all our Princes Prelats and People all duetifull and correspondent honours and good Offices for so many hundred yeares togither when they and their dominions florished in much glorie and felicitie and were dreadfull to Gods enemies the Churches and their owne among whom hir Maiesties Father for his worthie writinges and doings against the Lutherans receiued the glorious and eternall title of Defender of the faith to him of whose Predecessors all the famous Fathers called for ayde comfort and counsell in their like distresses Cyprian of Cornelius and Stephanus Athanasius of Iulius and Marcus Chrysostom and Augustine of Innocentius Basill of Tiberius Felix and other Bishops of Italie Hierom and Milecius of Damasus Theodorete of Leo the great and all the rest of otherholy Popes as time and necessitie required to him whose Seat as Eusebius reporteth of Sainct Denys of Corinth did alwayes sende reliefe to all the Christians persecuted and condemned to mettalles and refreshed all the faithfull comming vnto it as the Parent the children to him who as he canonically succeedeth all these in Seate doctrine and dignitie so is inferiour to none farre passeth many and resembleth most Sainct Gregorie the great our Apostle in all charitie hospitalitie zeale and tendernesse of heart and affection toward the desolate namely our nation for the spirituall calamitie whereof the writer of this hath seene him weepe full hartily and hath heard him saie the goods of that holie Seat whereof he had the dispensation were for the poore afflicted domesticals of faith Finallie whither could we with more hope haue recourse than to him by whose bounteous goodnesse so manie Patriarches Bishops learned Gentlemen and Christians of all sortes English Scottish Irish Almans Hungarians Syrians Armenians Cyprians and all other vnder the Turke or any way for Christes sake oppressed or impouerished haue beene and shall be relieued Theo. A long processe to little purpose Graunt that diuerse good men in times past haue sent and gone to Rome for counsell and comfort in cases of distresse which is all in effect which you can or doe say what conclude you nowe Phi. That wee may doe the like Theo. The like you may but not the contrarie Phi. We follow precisely their steps Theo. That we denie Well you may goe to Rome as they did and so your iourney not differ from theirs in the paines which you take nor the place which you see but you neither carrie with you the same mindes that they did neither doth your holy Father content him selfe with those meanes which his predecessors vsed For the auncient Bishoppes of Rome were duetifull and obedient Subiectes to the Christian Emperours and dealt by petition and supplication in most humble wise for their afflicted brethren they neuer offered armes nor encouraged Rebell against the superiour Powers no not when Constantius the Arian banished Liberius the Bishop of Rome for dissenting from his opinion nor when Iulius the Apostata renounced the faith and openly fell to Gentilisme but euer submitted them selues to the same Lawes and paines that other godly Bishops did when the Prince tooke part with error And for this cause the traueling then to Rome whiles the Bishop there embraced the truth obeyed the State assisted their brethren by good and lawfull meanes coulde no waie be displeasant to God iniurious to Princes nor daungerous to common-wealthes In our dayes it is farre otherwise The Pope nowe taketh vpon him to depose Kinges to inuade Realmes to authorize rebellion yea to curse all that yeelde any subiection or duetie to those Magistrates that withstand their fantasies Which vile and intollerable presumption of the late Bishops of Rome neither Cyprian nor Athanasius nor Chrysostome nor Augustine nor Basill nor Hierom nor Theodorete in their times euer founde or feared And therefore both you must alter the leude perswasions of your heartes and your holie Father must leaue his wholie practises to pull Princes out of their thrones by stirring sedition and inuading their Dominions before your flocking to Rome can bee warranted by these examples Phi. I maruell you still obiect that which wre by oth haue purged You knowe wee haue sworne that in going to Rome wee had no such intent Theo. Your oth if it bee true cleareth one man for one viage but which of you doeth or can sweare for all other times and persons Howbeit in this place wee doe not vrge you with your intentes nor attempts against her Maiestie wee onely weigh the strength of your argument that you may slie to Rome as well as some learned and auncient Fathers haue done This collection of yours is not good because the bishop of Rome nowe claymeth full power to depriue Princes of their Crownes and discharge their Subiectes from all obedience contrarie to the worde of God and examples of Christes Church which in those dayes whiles these Fathers whom you mention liued the Bishoppes of Rome neither did or durst presume Phi. Wee meddle not with the Popes clayme hee can answere for himselfe Theophil You must meddle with it and bring ineuitable proofe for it before your consequent will bee currant or your slight to Rome lawfull Phi. If wee sought to Rome for succour against the Prince your saying were somewhat but I haue often tolde you we doe not Theo. And I haue told you as often that graunt you did not the Popes clayme to discharge Kinges and Queenes at his pleasure is enough to reuerse your argument Wee care not what you dissemble of pollicie for a season but what he chalengeth for euer as of right His pride not your craft is the thing we stand on and that being such as the learned Fathers whom you name neuer sawe nor suspected maketh so great a difference betweene those dayes and these that from their fact to yours no good consequent can be framed And yet I could tell you besides that when hee commaundeth you must and will execute So that although you were no seekers nor prouokers of his vnchristian dealinges
their mutuall consents for the suppressing of errors that dayly sprang when generall Councels coulde not bee called In which case the Bishop of Rome both in respect of his Citie that was Imperiall and his See that was Apostolicall vsed to receiue the first letters Phi. The Councell of Carthage writeth thus to Innocentius Hoc itaque gestum charitati tuae intimandum duximus vt statutis nostrae mediocritatis etiam Apostolicae sedis adhibeatur auctoritas pro tuenda salute multorum That which was done we thought good to intimate to your charitie that to the decrees of our meannesse the authoritie of your Apostolike See might be added for the sauing of many from infection Theo. First they for their partes decreed against Pelagius without the Bishop of Rome next they seeke the consent of the Bishop of Rome not to make that good which they had done but to preuaile the rather with many that were out of their Prouince Error ipse impietas quae tam multos assertores habet per diuersa dispersos etiam auctoritate Apostolicae sedis anathematizanda est This error and impietie which hath so many fauorers dispersed in so many places had neede be condemned by the credit and authoritie of your Apostolike See Phi. Innocentius saith they did but their dueties Theo. A man might soone intreate Innocentius to take enough vpon him and yet the worst he saith is this Arbitror omnes fratres Episcopos nostros quoties fidei ratio ventilatur non nisi ad Petrum id est sui nominis honoris authorem referre debere velut nunc retulit vestra dilectio I thinke that all our brethren and fellow Bishops when any matter of faith is in question ought to referre the same to none but to Peter the author of their office and honor as now your kindnesse hath done Where by referring to Peter he did not meane as you do that all faith and Religion should depende on the Popes sleeue but that when they had concluded as they saw cause they should giue him intelligence to this ende that he might cōcur with them for the better repressing of heresie with full consent Now that which Innocentius made but a thought of you since that time proclaime for a Gospell Phi. Innocentius would not thinke so without some ground Theo. Thoughts are weake proofes when the case is our owne And Innocentius Epistles in answere of these two Councels Erasmus noteth for want of words wit and learning requisit for so great a Prelate Phi. Erasmus is very bolde with the Fathers Theo. Your decretall Epistles be euen such for the most part mary that is not to this purpose Basill is the next man in your beadrole who called as you say for helpe of Liberius Felix and other Bishops of Italie but can you tell vs where we shall finde all these thinges that you affirme Phi. In his Epistles Theo. There be foure or fiue Epistles of his written to the West Bishops in general and to the Bishops of Italie and Fraunce for succor and helpe where the Bishop of Rome perhaps is included as one amongst the rest but neuer intreated nor so much as named asunder from the rest And here may you learne of Basill the cause why good men being oppressed in the East Church by the craft and power of heretikes or enimies sought to the West for ayde and assistance Not that they tooke the Bishop of Rome for supreme Iudge of all doubts and doctrines as left in Christs steede but that the number concorde of the West Bishops might temper and hinder the malice of their aduersaries and bring their quarels to be decided in an open and euen Councell So Basill aduiseth Athanasius to do For the experience that I haue had in things I know this to be the only way to get help that our Churches are linked with the West Bishops For if they will readily shew the same zeal for our Coūtries which they did against one or two that were diffamed in the West perhaps somwhat wil be done that shall generally profit all whereby those that are in authority may be moued to reuerence their number the people euery where wil follow thē without contradiction And Basil himself writing to thē As much cōfort helpe as you can saith he delay not to yeeld to the distressed and afflicted Churches As we thinke the concord vnitie which you enioy there among your selues to be our own happines so ought you to labor with vs in these dissentions which assault vs. If then there be any comfort of loue if any communion of the spirit if any bowels of pitie be moued to helpe vs take ye the zeale of godlines deliuer vs from this tempest And describing at large the miserable state of the Churches thereabout The principles of godlines saith he be ouerthrowen the rites of religion peruerted faith it selfe in daunger godlie preachers put to silence euery blasphemous mouth is open holy thinges are prophaned and those that are sound amōg the people flee the house of prayers as in the which impietie is published Therefore while yet some stand before a perfect and full shipwrack oppresse the Church hastē vnto vs hasten at the lēgth yet What you shall do to help vs we neede not tell you but onely this that you must make speed the presence of many brethren will be requisite for this matter to this end that they which come may make a full and iust Synode This is the chiefest thing that we require that by your meanes the troubles of our coūtries may be knowen to the Emperours own person or if that be hard that some of you come to see comfort the afflicted The thinges that we spake many suspect as proceeding of priuate contention you the farther you dwel off the more credit you haue with the people If therfore many of you with one consent shal decree the same it is euident that the verie number of you concurring in one minde with vs shall cause all men to receiue this doctrine without any doubting You see what helpe Basill asked of the West Bishops making no mention of the Bishop of Rome but praying them all to ioyne togither and to shewe their zeales for the truth either by meeting in a ful Synod for the condēnation of such errors as were newly risen in the church or by writing their letters to the East Bishops that the teachers embracers of those impieties should be seuered frō the communion of the faithfull vntill their amendment The redresse of these things we seeke for at your hands the which you shall performe if it please you to write to all the East Churches that those which in this sort haue corrupted the doctrine of truth be then admitted to the communiō when they correct their errors if they will not be brought from this innouation but frowardly continue the same
aduantage Theo. How loth you be to come to that which at length you must For say Philander might the Councell of Constance do that which they did or no You holde a Wolfe by the eares I can tell you Phi. The truth is I finde my selfe in some straite If I say they did well then I confesse that a Councell may lawfully resist and depriue the Pope for all this they did if I say they did euill then must the Councell of Constance be schismaticall in offering Christs Uicar so great and open wrong and the Church of Rome yea the Catholike Church that allowed and honored their actes and decrees fowly deceiued and Martin the Sixt whom this Councell elected and the Christian world obeied no lawfull successour but a violent intruder which God forbidde I shoulde affirme Theo. Then if you dare not say the Synode did euill you must yeelde they did wel and consequently the point which you first doubted is fully proued that a Councell may lawfully controle correct and depose the Pope notwithstanding you make him chiefe iudge on earth head of the whole Church Phi. Was Pope Iohn lawfully chosen Theo. You search euery angle but in truth you can not scape Phi. Platina saith some such thing Theo. So some would shift the matter but if his entrie to the Popedome were not good his summoning the Councell of Constance could not bee good and so this Synode neuer lawfully called Next the Councell did not reiect him as vnorderly chosen nor disclaime him for no Bishop but remoued him from the function which he had as vnworthy the same And their generall decree by which they define the Pope to be subiect to the Councel must not be referred to wrongfull inuadors but wholy restrained to lawfull possessors of the Romane See else no masterie for the Councell to bee superiour to those that were no Popes but onely vsurpers And therefore if there were any fault in his election since the Councell did omit the same in his depriuation and proceeded against him for other crimes it can do you small pleasure Phi. Did hee not submit himselfe to their definitiue sentence and with his owne mouth ratifie their actes whatsoeuer before they ventered to depose him Theo. When Pope Iohn sawe the Duke of Austria proscribed and adiudged by the Emperour to forfeit all his goodes and landes for helping and receiuing him in his flight and himselfe now brought backe and kept in prison to abide the determination of the Councell and foule matters obiected against him and witnesses produced and examined vpon the same being already suspended from his Popedom by the Councell then required to say for his defence what he coulde and warned against the next day to bee present in the Councell to heare the iudgement that should be giuen vpon the premisses what maruell if hee seeing no way to preuent that which the Synod would execute thought better to please them with a forced humilitie than to prouoke them to farther bitternesse with a bolde defiance But did the Councell ground themselues vpon that his submission or else did they deriue their authoritie from Christ without the Pope aboue the Pope Phi. I know they chalenged their power immediatly from Christ. Theo. By that you may see they ment to exclude the Popes consent allowance which also well appeared by their doings For they cited suspended conuicted imprisoned assigned him a tearme to receiue iudgement before euer he came to that submission And last of all if you could light on it there is a great difference betweene confessing the proces referring himselfe to the discretion of the Councell which Pope Iohn did at length much against his stomake authorizing the Iudges to proceede which they neither did aske nor would accept at his handes And least you should thinke I mistake the Councel of Constance the Councel of Basil which began 14. yeares after doth not only confirme that which I defend but also repute you for heretikes that egerly withstand it Their words be these Veritas de potestate Concilij generalis supra Papam declarata per Constantinēse hoc Basiliense Concilia generalia est veritas fidei Catholicae veritas haec Papa generale Concilium actu legitimè congregatum sine eius cōsensu nullatenus potest autoritatiue dissoluere aut ad aliud tempus prorogare aut de loco ad locum transferre veritas est fidei Catholicae Veritatibus duabus praedictis pertinaciter repugnās est cēsendus haereticus This position that a general councell hath power ouer aboue the Pope declared in the generall councell of Constance Basill is a truth of the catholike faith Againe that the Pope by no means can dissolue defer or translate a generall councell lawfully called once sitting of his own authoritie without the consent of the said councell this is likewise a truth of the catholike faith These two former truthes he that stifly denieth must be taken for an heretike Now choose whether you will forgo your assertion or else abide the verdict of your own Councell Phi. Against the Councel of Basill much might be saide if time and place did serue Theo. Time and place do serue except you relent by their illation to conclude you an heretike Phi. That Councell was neither generall nor lawfull Theo. It is not enough for you to say the worde you must tell vs why Phi. They bent themselues against Eugenius the fourth and did what they could to thrust him from his Seate Theo. Perhaps Eugenius deserued no lesse Phi. No they did it vpon a faction in fauour of the Duke of Millan that hated Eugenius Theo. Contention is no iust exception against a Synode For so you may refuse the best that euer were But what can you say why the Councell of Basill shoulde not be counted in your Church both lawfull and generall Was it not orderly summoned as your manner is Were not all nations called The Bull of Martin the fift is extant by the which the Councell was first indicted and Eugenius himselfe that struggled a while to dissolue the Councell was glad at length to chaunge his tune and to retract all that hee had done in derogation of the Synode and with an other Bull fairely subscribed with the Cardinalles handes to confirme and confesse the Councell of Basill to bee a generall sacred and lawfull Councell And here you shall see a plaine president that the Princes and Bishops assembled at Basill not onely resisted Eugenius labouring what hee could to disperse them but also forced him to yeeld and acknowledge the lawfulnesse of their Synode Eugenius saith Platina much distressed first with warres on euery side next for that he saw the councell of Basill began by Pope Martins decree daily increase the Princes of Spaine Fraunce Germanie and Pannonie repairing thither and referring the common cause of christendom to the iudgement of the councell meaning to shut
blood and bowels against them And therefore no maruaile if king Henrie relented somewhat of his former stoutnesse when the king of Fraunce the Earle of Flaunders the king of Scots the yong king his sonne and two other of his children the Duke of Aquitane and Earle of Britaine cōspired against him but it is euident that frō the conquest till the time these lawes and liberties stood in their full force and were publikely receiued and vsed in this Realme Phi. Did the Pope procure him these enemies Theo. What packing there was betweene the French king and the Pope though the stories in this place do not confesse yet we may soone coniecture by the generall drift of your holy Father his blessed adherents in those daies specially by the exāple of king Iohn the sonne of the said king Henrie whom for refusing the disordered election of Stephen Langton to the church of Canterbury Innocentius the 3. so terrified with open inuasion of enemies secret defection of subiects that for safegard of himselfe he was driuen to resigne his kingdome take it againe at the Popes hands in fee farme vnder the yearly rent of a thowsand marks binding himself his heires for euer to do the like homage fealtie to the Bishops of Rome for the crowne of England Which shamefull seruitude of the Prince vtter ruine of the Realme so much displeased the barōs bishops that before toke the Popes part against the king that in plaine contempt of the Popes keies curses they chose them an other king chased king Iohn the Popes farmour from place to place in despite of al y his new Landlord could do or deuise But this I omit because the quarel touched the right title to the crown I medle only with those resistances which the kings of England made for men and matters ecclesiastical Phi. I trust they were not many Theo. For the first hundred yeares next the cōquest it is clear the kings of this Realm would neuer allow their subiects to run to Rome nor suffer appeals to be made to the Pope without their expresse consent now shall you see what they which came after did When king Edw. the 3. reuiued the statute of Premunire made by king Edw. the 1. in the 35. year of his raign against such as sought to Rome to prouide thē of benefices other ecclesiastical promotions wtin this realm enacting the same penalty for those that by processe frō thence impugned any iudgement giuen in the kings courts or brought from Rome any Bul writing or instrumēt to those other like effects Gregory the 11. then Bishop of Rome vnderstanding therof was very earnest against it protesting this was nothing else but to make a schism in the church of Christ to abolish religion to subuert right reason infringe al coūcels speedily dealt with king Edw. to abrogate this law A schisme rising not long after in the church of Rome there was not a Pope that had any care of this til at lēgth Martin the 5. wrote more vehemēt letters to K. H. the 6. But these two bishops of Rome receiued one the same answer which was that an act of Parliament could not be repealed without the autority of a Parliamēt that shortly one should be called to that end which neuer after was performed Yea the king that came after did not only cause that law to be kept put in vre but increased the terror of it with a rigorous punishmēt which is that the party so offending shal forfeit his goods himself be condemned to perpetual imprisonmēt This writer an Italian born a man wedded to the See of Rome confesseth the Popes authority was abated restrained by the lawes of this Realm in the time of king Edward the 3. and so continued euer after that not only the Popes letters were twise refused but the sharpnesse of the punishment increased to strengthen the Statute that pared their power and limited his iurisdiction within this Realme Phi. Perhaps they wtstood him for tēporal matters Theo. The matters were such as your own church accoūteth spiritual to wit electiōs of Bishops gifts of benefices procedings in other causes tending as the cōmplaint of Gregory teacheth you to the diuision of the church extirpation of religion subuersion of al councels which you may not thinke to be temporall matters And this resistance which the Bishop of Rome so much repined at in the daies of king Edward the 3. neuer ceased till king Henry the 8. of famous memory banished the Popes vsurped power cleane out of this Land Phi. So did none of his progenitors before him Theo. It may be they wēt not so far as he did but as Polydor writeth R. Rich. the 2. wēt fairly towards it In a Parliament held the 14. yeare of his raigne the king his princes were of opinion that it would be very good for the realme of England if some part of the Popes dominion were determined with the Sea that is excluded out of this lād for that many wer daily vexed for causes which they thought could not so easily be ended at Rome Wherefore they made a law that no mā euer after should deal with the Bishops of Rome that any person in Englād should by his autority for any cause be excōmunicated that none should execute any such precept if it were sent him If any mā brake this law the pain apointed was he should lose al he had ly in prison during his life And where the pope trauailed by al means to ouerthrow the statute of prouisiō premunire the parliamēt held in the 13. year of Rich. the 2. for the better establishing surer executing of the law made it death for any mā to bring or send Bul or other proces frō Rome to impugn the same These be the words Itē it is ordained established that if any mā bring or send within this realm or the kings power any sūmōs sentēce or excōmunicatiō against any persō of what cōditiō that he be for the cause of making motiō assent or executiō of the said statute of Prouisors or premunire he shal be takē arested put in prison forfeit al his lands tenements goods catle for euer moreouer incur the pain of life mēber So the kingdoms cōmonwelths as wel as councels of al others Frāce England haue from time to time resisted your holy father in the midst of his terror tyrany P. You shew they did it but you do not shew they did wel in it Th. I need not you must shew they did il The prince by gods ordināce beareth the sword not the pope therfore the presumption lieth for the prince against the pope til you proue the cōtrary besids if bishops in a synod may lawfully resist him why may not princes in their parliamēts
Ecclesiasticall Lawes for 800. yeares and vpward answereth the Iesuites authorities and absurdities heaped against the Princes regiment searcheth the safest way for the Princes direction in matters of Religion and concludeth the Pope in doubts of doctrine to be no sufficient nor superiour Iudge Phi. FIRST then whereas in the Proclamation we be charged to liue contrary to the lawes of God the Realme c. We answere that if the lawes of God the lawes of the Realme did alwaies consent concur in deed as in this clause other cōmon writings speeches proceeding frō autority they be lightly in words couched togither against vs hardly could wee defende our doctrines and doings frō error vnduetifulnes towards our prince But seeing the lawes of kings and Countries are not euer consonant but may be contrary to Gods commandements we may iustly mislike the one without disloyalty to the other When Emperours saith Augustine be in errour they make lawes for their errour against the truth by which iust men are tried crowned for not doing that which they command because God forbiddeth it Theo. That some princes haue made lawes against God his truth is a case so cleare that it needed no proofe as also that wee must rather obey God than men when their lawes do swarue frō his again on the other side that princes haue made lawes for the true seruice worship of God did rightly iudge it to be a part of their charge that all they which resist those lawes shal be grieuously punished at Gods hands though you craftily dissemble you can not deny S. Austen in this very place which you bring for your defence the very next words wil tel you so much Quando autē Imperatores veritatem tenent pro ipsa veritate contra errorē iubent quod quisquis contempserit ipse sibi iudicium acquirit When Emperors hold the truth they cōmand for truth against error which cōmādement whosoeuer despiseth he purchaseth to himselfe iudgement For he shal be punished by mē haue no part with God for not doing that which truth it selfe by the kings hart commanded him These words you did wel to cut off they were enough to mar your market Phi. Not ours The. Wil you thē cōfesse that princes may commād for truth against error that whosoeuer despiseth their commandement in those cases shal incur iudgement So saith S. Austen in plaine wordes Phi. They may commaund mary the Church must appoint them what they shall commaund Theo. What mean you by the Church Phi. What should I meane by the Church but the church Theo You loue to play with wordes Mean you laimen or priests or both Phi. Euer heard you the church taken for laimen The. When S. Paul sent for the elders of Ephesus willed them to take heed to themselues the whole slocke ouer which the holy Ghost had placed them to rule or feed the Church of God what ment hee by the Church the Priestes to whom he spake or the people Phi. There you see the Priestes are to rule the Church Theo. There also you may see the Church is not to rule the Prince Phi. How doth that follow Theo. The Church is there taken for the people which must not rule but obey the Prince Phi. By the Church in my first answere I ment the Priestes and not the people Theo. Can you shew where the Church in all the Scriptures is takē for the Priests without the people Phi. We call them only Churchmen Theo. We respect not your abuse but the right vse of the word The Church is neuer taken in the new nor old Testament for the Priestes alone but generally for the whole congregation of the faithfull And therefore when you say the Prince must be ruled by the Church you dallie with a doubtfull word and put a faire colour vppon a foule cause but you must distinctly tell vs what persons you mean when you say the Church must appoint what the Prince shal command Phi. I meane Churchmen that is Priestes and Bishops Theo. And what if Churchmen do not agree which is truth as in our dayes they do not may Princes make their choyse what Churchmen they will follow Phi. No the chiefe ruler of the Church and head Bishop on earth must appoint them what faith they shall imbrace Theo. That chiefe ruler of the Church you take to be the Pope Phi. We do Theo. We like you well for your plainesse Then Princes may commaund that which the Church you meane Churchmen or if they agree not the chiefe Churchman which is the Pope shall appoint This is your assertion is it not Phi. It is Theo. What you say Princes must do for the Pope we say princes may do for Christ that is they may plant and establish the Christian faith in their Realmes by their Princely power though the Pope say nay This is our doctrine can you reproue it Phi. Who shall be iudge which is the true Christian faith Theo. You slip now to an other question It is one thing who may command for truth another who shal direct vnto truth We say Princes may command for truth punish the refusers this no Bishop may chalenge but onely the Prince that beareth the sworde This is the first part of our question And touching the second which is the safest way for princes to be guided vnto the truth though we differ about the meanes you reseruing it as a speciall priuilege to the Pope we referring it as a common duetie to the Preacher yet this is euident that Princes must be directed vnto truth the same way that al other Christians are to wit by perswasion and not by coaction For no Prelate nor Pope hath authoritie from Christ to compel priuate men much lesse princes to the profession of faith but onely to teach and instruct them These be the two pointes wee stand on disproue them if you can Phi. This is not al. You would haue Our faith and saluation so to hang on the Princes will and Lawes that there could be imagined no neerer waie to religion than to beleeue what our temporall Lord and Maister list Theo. It is a cunning when you can not confute your aduersaries at least to beelie them that you may seeme to say somewhat against them In deede your fourth chapter is wholie spent in refelling this position which we detest more than you Phi. You begin to shrinke from your former teaching Theo. You will neuer shrink frō your former facing Did euer any man on our side affirm the princes will to be the rule of faith Haue we not earnestly written and openly taught that Religion must not depend vpon the pleasures of men Haue not thowsandes of vs here in England and elsewhere giuen our liues for the witnesse and confession of Gods truth against princes lawes and Popes decrees In Spaine Fraunce Italie
yet by Gods and mans ordinance it is so diuided that euery one of you in his order and calling hath a part of our charge in so much that I should bee your admonisher and you all my coadiutors For which respect our intent is by other good meanes and by commissioners appointed for this purpose to learne and trie howe well our lieutenants fauour and execute iustice and howe religiously our Bishops liue and preach WILLING TOV ALL VVITHOVT EXCEPTION TO OBSERVE OVR COMMANDEMENT IN ALL THINGS AND HONOVR SVCH AS WE SEND FOR ANY OCCASION OR BVSINES EITHER ECCLESIASTICALL OR TEMPORAL AND IN RESPECT OF OVR AVTHORITIE NOT TO FAILE BVT PERFORME THOSE THINGS WHICH WE HAVE ENIOYNED YOV BY THEM Nowe the charge that wee giue our visitours is this First they shall indict assemblies in two or three places whither all within the limittes of their commission shall resort and there make it knowne to all men what is the summe and effect of their message to witte that wee haue appointed them for this cause that IF ANY BISHOP or Lieutenant can not do his duetie by reason of any impediment hee should haue recourse to them and by their helpe discharge his dutie and if the matter bee such as by their industrie can not bee redressed then shall it bee brought by them to our knowledge and againe IF ANY BISHOP or Lieutenant BE FOVND NEGLIGENT IN HIS OFFICE by their monition he shal be refourmed Wee charge them likewise to make knowen to all men the Chapters or Lawes QVAE GENERALITER DE QVIBVSCVNQVE CAVSIS STATVIMVS WHICH WE HAVE DECREED GENERALLY CONCERNING ALL MANER OF CAVSES and do their best to see them throughly kept of all men And if any of the things which we haue ordained and commaunded be found imperfect by some defect happily which they can not amend then shall they with speede make relation thereof to vs that we may correct that which they cannot And because the last yere our expectation was not satisfied in such sort as we looked for we will that this present yere our visitours whom wee haue allotted to this seruice haue better respect and care how euery man that we haue preferred to the gouernance of our people in his calling dischargeth his dewtie to Gods pleasure our honor the benefite of our subiects and this shall be the very course of their inquirie whether the things contained in our Capitular which we deliuered them this yere past be kept and obserued according to Gods will our commaundement Therefore about the midst of May next shall they assemble I meane our visitours euerie man in his diuision with all the Bishops Abbats Lieuetenants our fee men and aduocats the Abbesses and such as cannot come to send their proxies the liuetenant to bring with him his vnder officers and hundreders and in that conuent shall they first conferre touching Christian religion and ecclesiastical order next they shall inquire of our officers how they doe their duties last of our people in what concord and peace they liue And this inquisition shall they make so diligently and exactly that we may be trewly certified by thē of al these points And if any such cause be brought before thē which needeth their help according to the condition of the causes specified in the short rehearsal of our lawes then our wil is they shall go to the place and redresse it by the warrant of our authoritie You can neither bee so simple but you may see nor so partial but you must graunt that Ludouike and Lotharius behaued themselues as rightful superuisours of the Bishops in their Empire how they liued and preached ayding those that were hindered correcting those that were negligent in their ministeries and sent visitours to inquire and redresse by their Princely power any cause that needed reformation in Christian religion or ecclesiastical order commaunding all men generally to reuerence and obay them as wel in ecclesiastical as common wealth matters in respect of their royal authoritie What more than this doth that oth impart which you so much declaime against Or what lesse than this did Ludouike and Lotharius execute Can their proceedings please you and our words expressing the selfesame right offend you You must either reiect both or admit both they bee so neare linked you can not disseuer them I now make your selfe iudge whether these Christian and Catholike Princes were not commaunders and punishers those we call gouernours of Bishops Priests and Moncks in maters and causes ecclesiasticall Phi. I see they were but yet not supreme which is the cheefest thing that we mislike in your oth Theo. I beleeue you well for by that worde we denie Princes to bee subiect to the Popes consistorie which is the chiefest thing you respect Phi. That worde maketh them superiours to God himselfe for supreme is superiour to all neither Christes owne person nor his Church excepted Theo. Can you make such merriments when you be disposed Phi. Doth not the word inferre superiour to all or at least subiect to none Theo. Was it in question when this othe was made whether God should be superior to man or whether Princes should bee subiect to the Pope Phi. It skilleth not what was then in question these bee nowe your woordes Theo. By this cunning you may conclude all that euer wrate with pen or spake with tongue to be wicked blasphemers Phi. Why so Theo. Where the superlatiue is vsed by your rule God himselfe is not excepted And so these phrases a most wise teacher a most holy Bishoppe a most mightie prince and ten thousand such like which we find in all mens bookes and speeches bee meere impieties For they import that many bee wiser holyer and mightier than Christ himselfe or at lest as wise holy and mightie as he which is open inexcusable blasphemie Name me what father or writer you will and see by this art of yours whether I proue him not a blasphemer Phi. That is no right vnderstanding but a foolish carping at mens wordes For when we giue these titles to men sanctissimus potentissimus beatissimus the most holy father the most puissant king the most blessed Martyr we meane amongst men wee compare them not with God Theo. And since all men euen your selues speake so why doe you take that foolish aduantage at the word supreme which we vse as if we ment not amongst men but exalted Princes aboue God Phi. But the Church of Christ is not excepted and that consisteth of men Theo. If by the Church of Christ you meane the faithfull liuing on earth certainely Princes be not subiect but superiours to all Christian men Peter spake to the chosen and elect of God when hee sayde Bee subiect to the king as to the chiefe Paul willed Titus to warne not the miscreants but the beleeuers in Creta to bee subiect to principalities and powers and wrate himselfe to all the Saintes at Rome
submitteth himselfe to the Princes commissioners and offereth to amend all that is amisse by the princes iudgement This lowly submission importeth an euident subiection Phi. It was a dispensation of the Popes humilitie not any part of his bounden duetie thus to doe Theo. So Gratian the compiler of your decrees falueth the matter which is as much as if you sayde the Pope by right might haue commaunded the Prince but in a merie moode for once to make sport he would needes bee iudged and ordered by the Prince Is not this a proper kind of diuinitie when the Pope protesteth his obedience to the Princes power and lawes to say the Pope speaketh in iest his wordes are but a tricke of voluntarie which he may recall or refuse when hee will If such vnlearned irreligious and vnsavory shiftes may serue for good answeres you may soone defend what religion you lift It is a very short and easie methode to be rid of all examples and histories to say they did so but it was more than needed or should haue beene done Phi. In temporall matters it might be the Pope was subiect to the Princes power but not in spirituall Theo. No man can bee both a subiect and a superiour to the Princes power A subiect is alwayes a subiect that is at al times to bee commaunded and punished by the magistrate neuer to command or punish the Magistrate Againe Leo referreth him selfe in all thinges both great and small to the Princes pleasure and censure now a subiect in all thinges is superiour in nothing yet left you shoulde cauill that ecclesiasticall causes are not expresty mentioned in this place you shall see that the Bishoppes of Rome for eight hundred yeeres and aboue were suppliants and seruants not of curtesie but of duetie to Christian Emperours and obeyed their ecclesiasticall Lawes and edicts and were commaunded and ouerruled by them in the regiment of the Church as the stories that follow shall plainely declare Donatus and his fellowes pretending that Cecilianus could not be Bishop of Carthage for many crimes falsely surmised and specially for that Felix which layed handes on him had as they sayde betrayed or burnt the scriptures not onely refused his communion and procured his condemnation in a Prouinciall Synode by lxx Africane Bishoppes but in a tumult erected an other Bishoppe besides him diuided the people from him and offering a bill of complaint against him to the Proconsull of Africke made a request to Constantine that hee woulde giue them iudges to decide the matter The Prince carefull to keepe the Church in peace did authorize Meltiades Bishoppe of Rome Marcus a Clergieman of the same Citie but as then no Bishop Rheticius Maternus and Maximus three Bishoppes of Fraunce to consider their allegations and determine the strife Where sentence passing with Cecilianus the contrarie part appealed from the commissioners to the Prince This appeale Constantine might haue iustly reiected as made from his owne delegates but seeking all meanes to pacifie the schisme commanded a greater number of their Bishoppes to meete together at Arle in France there to sit in Councell a fresh about the hearing and ending of this quarell from whome for that they likewise concluded Cecilianus to be right Bishop of Carthage the Donatists appealed as they had done from the first adding nowe that if Cecilianus himselfe were cleare yet so long as Felix was guiltie which ordered and confirmed him his election must needes bee voyde The patient and mild Emperour seeing them twise conuicted and not contented but still murmuring against the Bishoppes as partiall and dayly molesting his eares with importunate suite neuer troubled Bishoppe or Councell with the clearing of Felix but appointed Aelianus a ciuill Magistrate to search out the trueth of these later accusations in a temporall Court where Felix after diligent examination was iudicially discharged and acquitted from all suspition of that sacrilegious abusing the woorde of God Then were both sides called before Constantine to receiue iudgement at his handes without appeale who taking paynes in his owne Person to sit iudge betweene them and exactly weighing what either part could say gaue sentence with Cecilianus against Donatus making therewithall a most sharpe Lawe to punish the Donatists if they persisted in their wilfulnes as dissentious schismatikes from the Church of Christ which rigour the Christian Emperours that followed did rather increase than diminish This I thought good to report out of Eusebius Optatus and Austen somewhat the larger that the circumstaunces being fully knowen the conclusion might the better bee perceiued I trust you will not denie but the strife betweene Cecilianus and Donatus consisted both of persons and causes ecclesiasticall The parties accused and accusing were Bishoppes the faultes obiected were iust impediments of episcopall dignitie the matters in doubt were the committing and partaking of sacrilege the right election of Bishoppes the lawfull deposing of them by Synodes the needefull communion with them or schismaticall dissention from them No causes can possiblely touch the regiment of Christes Church neerer than these wel then in these causes who was supreme Meltiades or Constantine The bishop of Rome or the Emperour The prince sent commission to the Pope ioyned other collegues with him receiued an appeale from him gaue second iudges after him and in his owne person pronounced finall sentence without him the least of these facts proueth the prince superiour to the Pope and all these did that famous Emperour and his doings in this case were very well lyked and accepted in the Church of Christ. Which of these things wil you now encounter Did not Cōstantine authorize Meltiades His commission is yet extant to Meltiades Bishoppe of Rome and Marcus with these words My pleasure is that Cecilianus with ten Bishops of his accusers and other tenne of his fauourers come to Rome there to be heard before you both ioyning with you Rheticius Maternus and Marinus your collegues whom purposely for this matter I haue willed with speede to repaire vnto you S. Austen debating with the Donatists what iust exceptions they could take to so many sentences giuen against them moueth this doubt maketh this answere Should not thinke you Meltiades Bishop of Rome with his collegues haue vsurped that iudgement which lxx Africane Bishops had ended What that he did not vsurpe For the Emperour vpon motion made by you sent Bishops to sit with him as iudges and to rule that matter in euery point as iustice should leade them This we proue by the Donatists supplication and the Princes owne wordes If S. Austen defend the Bishoppe of Rome from vsurping in this case by producing vrging a commission from the prince then apparētly both the pope was authorized by y◠princes power to giue iudgemēt in a matter ecclesiastical had bin but for that warrant an vsurper Phi. S. Austen sayth that Constantine durst not be iudge of a Bishops cause Theo. At the first hee
Chrysostom refused to communicate with Theophilus his deposer and Atticus his successor If any Bishop will not communicate with Theophilus Atticus let him be depriued of his church and his goods if they be laymen they shall forfeite the magistrates their dignities the souldiers their girdle the common sort let them be fined and exiled By Honorius an other of his sonnes ruling the West partes Bonifacius and Eulalius chosen Bishops of Rome in a tumult were both commaunded to depart the Citie and Bonifacius after he was restored put vp a supplication to the prince for a decree that no man by suite or other vnlawfull meanes might be made Bishop of Rome to whom Honorius sent back this rescript By the mouth of your holines we hill haue this knowen to al Clergy men that when you shall forgo this life which we wish not they may learne to surcease from ambitiō For if two striuing be chosen neither of them shall continue Bishop but he onely shall remaine in the See Apostolike whom the diuine iudgement and general consent shall elect a fresh out of the clergie This must therefore be kept that all may put on quiet and contented mindes by our gentle admonition and not attempt any thing by seditious packing since we be resolued that neither faction shall preuaile It was no strange thing in those daies for the Bishop of Rome to be suppliāt and subiect in church matters to christian Princes When Eutiches first broched his error that the fleshe of Christ in substance was not like this of ours Leo thē Bishop of Rome made this sute to Theodosius the yonger If it please your Highnesse to graunt my supplication to command a Councell of Bishops to be kept in Italie speedily by Gods helpe might all things be redressed which nowe trouble the whole Church but hee did not obtayne so much For Theodosius appointed their meeting at Ephesus and for hast prefixed so short a time that the Bishoppes of Italie could not bee prouided for the iourneie Yet Leo sending his Deputies excuseth his absence by writing in these wordes Although to bee present at the day which your godlinesse prescribed for the Councell no possible meanes doe permit neither by former examples is my presence required and vrgent occasions at this time suffer me not to forsake this Citie specially considering the point of faith which Eutiches infringeth is so cleare that a Councell might well haue beene spared yet haue I doone my best to obeie your graces precept in this by dispatching thither such of my brethren as may suffice for this matter and shall supplie mine absence When this Councell by the violent threatning and mischieuous packing of Diosco us Bishop of Alexandria there president had allowed the cursed opinion of r Eutiches and deposed Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople for proceeding against him Leo becommeth a fresh suter to Theodosius in most earnest and humble manner For so much as the Councell of Bishops which you commanded to be kept at Ephesus concerning the matter of Flauianus hath in sight hurt the faith and wounded all churches all the churches of these parts about vs al the Priests make supplication to your Maiestie with sighes and teares that it might please you to commaund a generall councell to bee held within Italie behold most christian and reuerent Emperour I with the rest of my fellow Bishops beseech you to command that all things may stād in the same state in which they were before any of these iudgements vntill a greater number of Bishops may be gathered out of the whole world This request of his he besought the Princesse Pulcheria to commend vnto Theodosius hir brother I haue written to the most glorious and christian Prince that for the calling of a councell within Italie time might be set and place appointed all quarrels and iudgementes past on either side for the meane while suspended which thing that wee may the rather obtaine I beseech you let your accustomed deuotion which neuer failed the church in her troubles further our supplication with his Maiestie The same Leo desireth the clergie Nobles citizēs of Constantinop where Theodosius lay to ioyne with him for the better preuailing in his suite Put vp an humble supplication I pray you with good aduise that the most gratious Emperour wil vouchsafe to grant our petition which we make for a general councel to be summoned yet all the prayers meanes that Leo coulde vse notwithstanding Theodosius perswaded to the contrarie by Chrysaphius master of his pallace who was present at the said councel of Ephesus greatly fauoured the faction of Dioscorus would neuer incline to graunt him any thing but alwaies refused his request If the Bishop of Rome might haue commanded thus much against the Princes will and with-out the Princes power what needed such lowly supplications Why did he make so great friendes fet so deepe sighes shed so many teares and all in vaine What follie was it to wast so much labour and time to no purpose when the least word of his mouth as you pretende might haue commaunded both Emperour and Councell But if for restitution of the parties grieued on either side to their first estates for suspension of all actes and proceedings past in three Synodes for indiction of a generall Councell to debate their cause the Pope were to sue the Prince to graunt as appeareth by the plaine confession and humble submission of Leo then you see that in the Primatiue Church of Christ the Pope was wont to come to the Prince with a supplicamus for matters Ecclesiastical and not onely besought him as his superiour with all humilitie but obeyed him in such cases as his Lord and Soueraigne with all dutie After Theodosius succeeded Martian who by the perswasion of the vertuous Ladie Pulcheria ioynt Empresse with him was content to call a generall Councell but as touching the time which Leo requested and the place which he desired the prince refused the Popes petitiō in them both I besought your Grace saith Leo that the councell which wee made sute for and you iudged needful to pacifie the East church might by your commandement bee differred till some better opportunitie but because you led with a deuoute respect prefer Gods matters before mans I labour not against that which your Highnes hath disposed yea rather I did with so great gladnes imbrace your Maiesties trauell to call a Synode for reducing the church to concord that although my selfe were a suter to haue it kept within Italie and a fitter time to be chosen that more store of Bishops might be sent for from the farthest partes yet so soone as your Graces writ was deliuered me foorthwith I directed some to supplie my roome When this Councell was assembled Leo began to make farther sute to Martian in this wise The second councell of Ephesus can not rightly be called a councell which apparantly subuerted the
faith and which your Highnes for verie loue to trueth will make voide by your decree to the contrarie most glorious Emperour I therefore earnestly request and beseech your Maiestie by the Lord Iesus Christ the founder and guider of your kingdom that in this councell of Chalcedon which is presently to bee kept you will not suffer the faith to bee called in question which our blessed Fathers helde deliuered them from the Apostles neither permit such errours as haue beene long since condemned by them to bee nowe reuiued againe but that you will rather commaunde the faith concluded in the first Nicene Councell to stande in full force remouing all the latter deuises of Heretikes Which request Martian accomplished entering the Councell in his owne person and there by word of mouth absolutely forbidding the Bishops to defend or auouch any thing of the flesh and birth of our Sauiour otherwise thā the Nicene creed did containe To this councel of Chalcedon Leo willed by Martiā to subscribe returned his answere in this suppliant duetifull order Because I must by all meanes obey your sacred and religious will I haue set down my consent in writing to those Synodall constitutions which for the confirmation of the catholike faith and condemnation of heretiks pleased me very well What better witnesse can we produce that in causes Ecclesiasticall the Prince was the Popes superiour than this that for repealing the Councell of Ephesus for summoning the Councell o◠Chalcedon for charging those 600. and 30. fathers not to decline from the Nicene faith and requiring the Bishop of Rome to subscribe to their actes Martian commaundeth with authoritie Leo with al readinesse obeyeth yea that Leo beseecheth Martian to commaund and protesteth that for his part he did and must obey the Princes will in those cases We COMMAVND saith Iustinian the blessed ARCHBISHOPS of Rome Constantinople Alexandria Theopolis and Ierusalem to receiue for ordering and instauling of Bishoppes onely that which this present Lawe doeth allow And taxing the charges of euery Bishoppe according to the yearly value of his Church If any man saith hee presume to take for installations or other duties aboue the rate which we prefixe we cōmand that he repay thrise so much of his own to the church or bishop in that sort grieued Neither doth he limit the Popes receites onely but also bindeth him with the rest by this general constitution If any man be made Bishop contrary to the forme which this law prescribeth the party confirmed shall loose his Bishopricke and the confirmer stand suspended from his Ecclesiasticall function one whole year and besides forfeit all his goods to the vse of his owne church mary when a bishop is accused of any thing that doth by the sacred canons or our lawes hinder his consecration if any man order him before diligent examination had as well he that did order him as he that is ordered shal for euer be depriued Thus coulde auncient Princes commaund in causes and correct for offences Ecclesiasticall euen the chiefest Patriarkes and namely the Bishop of Rome who now taketh on him to depose Princes and dispose kingdomes at his pleasure This illation is more than euident by the wordes of Gregorie the first who writing to the Emperour Mauritius vseth euery where this stile My Lord my most gracious Lord I your seruant and subiect to your commaundement and that not in temporall causes but in things concerning the rules and orders of Christes church as by the speciall circumstances will appeare Mauritius perceiuing that many coueted to be Clergi-men and Monkes some to preuent the daunger of their accomptes others to decline the burden of warfare made this decree that no souldier nor officer accountant to the Prince for any summes of mony should be receiued to sacred orders or Monastical profession charging the Bishoppe of Rome to giue notice thereof to the rest of his Prouince Gregorie though very much amased and grieued at the strangenesse of this law yet durst not resist or refuse the same but first with all diligence put the commaundement of Mauritius in execution and afterward fell to beseeching him to relent somewhat from the rigour of this hard and seuere prohibition My Lord hath giuen forth this edict saith he that no man entangled with seruice for the common weale should enter any ecclesiasticall function which I greatly praysed knowing that he which on the suddaine steppeth from a secular trade to a spiritual charge doth not meane to leaue but exchange the world Where it is added that none such should be suffered in any Monasterie this I maruailed at seeing the place doth not hinder the making of his accompts nor the paiment of his debts It followeth in the same law That no man once mustered as a souldier should cōuert from that calling and become a Monke Which constitution I confesse to my Lord did euen astonish mee because the way to heauen is thereby shut vp from many men and that now prohibited as vnlawfull which hath hitherto bin frankly permitted And what am I that speake to my Lord but dust and a verie worme Yet for that this Edict tendeth against God the creator of all thinges I can not conceale so much from my Lord. I therefore beseech you by the dreadful iudge that your holines wil either mitigate or abrogate this rigorus proclamation I for my part as subiect to your commaundement haue sent your precept into sundrie coastes yet because your Lawe doeth not stand with Gods glorie Lo by letters I haue acquainted my most glorious Lord there-withall So that I haue either way done my duetie which haue both yeelded obedience to my Prince and in Gods behalfe disburdened my conscience I your vnworthie suppliant waxe not thus bold either in respect I am a Bishop or in that I am your seruant by publike right but resting on your speciall and priuate fauour for that most gracious Soueraigne you were my Lord and master when as yet you were not Lord and chiefe ouer all If it be possible for a subiect to shew more submission and dutie to the Princes commaundement than the Bishop of Rome doth to Mauritius restraining all Bishops by his princely power from admission of such Monkes and election of such Clerkes as hee disabled let your Apologie bee had in some credit but if greater obedience than these wordes import neither Gods law doth exact nor Princes can expect I trust Gregories owne confession shal be taken without exception The like submission vpon like occasion is extant in other his Epistles as when Mauritius willed him to grow to some concord with Iohn Bishop of Cōstantinople to whom or from whom Gregorie would in no wise send or accept letters of communion societie because the saide Iohn entitled him vniuersall Patriarke I haue saith hee receiued letters from my vertuous Lord that I should be at peace with my brother and fellow Bishop Iohn In deed
Father or Councell for 800. yeares that proueth the Pope superiour to the Prince Bring somwhat to that end or else say you can not and I am answered Phi. I proue the church superior to the Prince which is enough to confute the supreme power that you giue to Princes Theo. And what for the Pope Shall he be superiour to Princes or no Phi. We wil talke of that an other time we be now reasoning of the church which I trust you will grant to be superiour to Princes God saide to the Church The nation and kingdom that will not serue thee shall perish And kinges shall serue thee Theo. This is right the trade of your Apologie to pretende the church and meane the Pope You sawe you were neuer able to proue the Popes vsurped power ouer Princes and therefore you thought it best to put a visarde of the Church vppon the Popes face and to bring him in that sort disguised to the stage to deceiue the simple with the sounde and shewe of the Church And for that cause your fourth chapter neuer nameth the Pope but stil vrgeth The regiment of the church The iudgement of the church The churches tribunall conuerted kingdomes must serue the church and euerie where the church the church and when the Church is confessed to bee superiour to Princes you set vppe the Pope as heade of the Church to take from her all the superioritie power and authoritie which before you claymed for her and so you make the Church but a cloke-bagge to carrie the Popes titles after him but staie your wisedomes the Church may bee superiour and yet the Pope subiect to Princes Kinges may serue the Church and yet commaund your holie father and his gymmoes the parish Priestes of Rome for their turning winding euery way iustly called Cardinals Phi. Can Princes bee supreme and the church their superiour Theo. Why not Phi. If any thing bee superiour Princes bee not supreme Theo. That I denie The Scriptures bee superiour to Princes and yet they supreme the Sacramentes bee likewise aboue them and yet that hindereth not their supremacie Truth Grace Faith Prayer and other Ghostlie vertues bee higher than all earthly states and all this notwithstanding Princes may bee supreme gouernours of their kingdomes and Countries Phi. You cauill nowe you shoulde compare persons with persons and not thinges with persons there may bee thinges aboue Princes and yet they supreme but if anie persons bee superiour then can they not bee supreme Theo. No The Sainctes in heauen and Angels of God bee persons superiour to Princes and yet may Princes bee supreme Phi. Why Theophilus these bee wrangling quiddities for shame leaue them The Sainctes bee superiour in perfection and dignitie but not in externall vocation and authoritie Theo. I like that you saie but if you looke backe you shall see Philander that you giue iudgement against your selfe Phi. Against my selfe Why so Theo. The Church is superiour to Princes for those very respectes which I nowe repeated First because the Saincts in heauen which are part of the church in happines perfection and dignitie bee many degrees aboue worldely states Secondly though the members of the Church bee subiect and obedient to Princes yet the thinges contayned in the Church and bestowed on the Church by God him-selfe I meane the light of his worde the working of his Sacramentes the giftes of his grace and fruites of his spirite bee farre superiour to all Princes Nowe view your consequent The Church in respect of her members in heauen and graces on earth is aboue the Prince ergo the Prince is not supreme but subiect to the Pope This is worse than wrangling You confound things and persons heauen and earth God and man to beare out the Popes pride Phi. You stretch the name of the church whither you list Theo. I may better stretch it to these thinges which I specifie than you restraine it to one onelie man as you doe But why doe I stretch the church farther than I should The Sainctes in heauen bee they not members of the church Phi. They bee membees of the church which is in heauen Theo. And the church in heauen is it an other church from this on earth or the same with it Phi. I thinke it bee the same Theo. You must not goe by thoughtes Sainct Paul saith You are of the same citie with the Sainctes and Ierusalem which is aboue is no straunger to vs but the mother of vs all Cum ipsis Angelis sumus vna ciuitas Dei cuius pars in nobis peregrinatur pars in illis opitulatur Wee saith Austen are one and the same citie of God with the Angels whereof part wandereth on earth in vs part in them assisteth vs. And againe The true Sion and true Ierusalem is euerlasting in heauen which is the mother of vs all She hath begotten vs shee hath nurced vs in part a stranger on earth in a greater part remaining in heauen For the soules of the godly that be dead be not seuered from the church which euen now is the kingdome of Christ. Certaynely Christ hath but one bodie which is his church and of that body since the Sainctes be the greater and worthier part they must bee counted of the same Church with vs. Phi. I stick not at that so much as at the next where you make the word and Sacramentes togither with their effectes and fruites to be parts of the church Theo. I do not say they be members of the Church but thinges required in the church without the which we can neither become nor continue the members of Christ. In a naturall bodie the spirits and faculties be no members yet without them the members haue neither life motion sense nor action So in the mysticall bodie of Christ the members be men but the meanes and helpes to make vs and keepe vs the members of Christ are the word and Sacraments without the which we can neither be planted quickned nor nourished in Christ. For the members be dead if they liue not by faith if they grow not by grace if they cleaue not by loue to their heade and moue at his will by obedience And therefore these thinges though they bee not members yet they bee ioyntes and sinewes vaines and vessels that giue life groeth strength and state to the bodie of Christ which is his church and may iustly bee called the principall powers or partes of his bodie Phi. Powers if you will but not partes Theo. As though the powers of the soule were not partes of the soule Phi. Not properly partes but powers and faculties Theo. What call you partes Phi. Whereof the whole consisteth Theo. And since without these there can be no Church ergo these be partes of the church Phi. You take partes very largely Theo. No larger than I should The foundation of the house is it not a part of the house Phi. Yes a chiefe
impossible reproueable by all diuine and humane learning which neuer king much lesse Queene Christian nor heathen Catholike nor heretike in this Realme or in all the worlde besides before our age did chalenge or accept You heape authorities and absurdities and terrifie the simple with woordes and crakes of the largest life as if the doctrine were so barbarous and monsterous that heathen and prophane men would abhorre it and when the bottom of your skil is seene and the pride of your tongues spent notwithstanding your often and ioyly profers you neuer so much as come neere the question Phi. Will you make vs beleeue that Theo. Marke the points that wee teach and see howe wide you bee from refuting that which wee defend Wee say Princes onely be Gouernours that is higher powers ordayned of God and bearing the sword with lawful and publike authoritie to command for trueth to prohibite and with the sword punish errors and al other ecclesiastical disorders as well as temporall within their Realmes This wee proue this you graunt to bee good and sound doctrine Of this then there is no question betwixt vs. Secondly wee teach that as all their subiects Bishoppes and others must obey them commanding that which is good in matters of religion and endure them with patience when they take part with error so they their Scepters and swordes bee not subiect to the Popes tribunall neither hath he by the lawe of God or by the Canons of the Church any power or preeminence to reuerse their doings and depose their persons but this is a wicked and arrogant vsurpation lately crept into the West partes of Europe since the Bishops of Rome exalted themselues aboue all that is called God and for this cause we confesse Princes within their owne regiments to bee SVPREME that is not vnder the Popes iurisdiction neither to bee commaunded nor displaced at his pleasure but to bee reserued to the righteous and Soueraigne iudgement of God who will syncerely iudge and seuerely punish both Popes and Princes if they bolster or suffer any kind of Impietie within their dominions This is the very point that is in question betwixt vs of which in your whole Apologie you speake not one woord but cunningly shift your handes of it knowing your selues not able to iustifie your wicked assertion And lest the reader should distrust your silence in that behalfe you followe the woorde supreme with huy and crie as if God were highly dishonoured and the Church of Christ robbed of her right and inheritance because the Pope may not set his feete in Princes neckes and be Lord Paramount of all earthly states and kingdomes Phi. Doe wee mistake your meaning or doe you rather pull in your hornes when you see your selues compassed round with so many grolie and sensible absurdities Theo. What one inconuenience can you fasten on vs for teaching this doctrine Phi. A thousand Theo. You bee better at craking than concluding Proue but one and spare the rest Phi. This Soueraigntie giueth power to the Queene to conferre that to others as to the Priestes and Bishops to preach minister Sacraments haue cure of soules and such like which shee neither hath nor can haue nor doe her selfe It giueth her that may neither preach nor speake in publike of matters of religion to do that which is much more euen to prescribe by her selfe or her deputies or Lawes authorised onely by her to the preachers what to preach which way to worship and serue God howe and in what forme to minister the Sacraments to punish and depriue teach and correct them and generally to prescribe and appoint which way shee will bee gouerned in soule It maketh the body aboue the soule the temporall regiment aboue the spiritual the earthly kingdom◠aboue Christs body mysticall It maketh the sheepe aboue the Pastor It giueth her power to command them whom and wherein she is bound to obey It giueth power to the subiect to be iudge of the Iudges yea and of God himselfe as S. Cyprian speaketh It maketh her free from Ecclesiasticall discipline from which no true child of Gods familie is exempted It derogateth from Christes Priesthoode which both in his owne person and in the Church is aboue his kingly dignitie It diuideth which is a matter of much importance the state of the Catholike Church and the holy communion or societie of all Christian men in the same into as many partes not communicant one with on other nor holding one of an other as there bee worldly kingdomes differing by customes Lawes and manners eche from other which is of most pernitious sequele and against the very natiue qualitie of the most perfect coniunction societie vnitie and entercourse of the whole Church and euery Prouince and person thereof together It openeth the gappe to all kinde of diuisions schismes sectes disorders It maketh all Christian Bishops Priestes and what other soeuer borne out of the Realme forainers and vsurpers in all iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall towardes vs there can bee no iurisdiction ouer English mens soules but prooceeding and depending of her soueraigne right therein Which is directly against Christes expresse commaundement and commission giuen to Peter first and then to all the Apostles of preaching baptizing remitting retayning binding and loosing ouer all the worlde without difference of temporall state or dependance of any mortall Prince therein It keepeth the Realme from obedience to generall Councels which haue beene or shal be gathered in forraine Countries It taketh away al conuenient meanes of gathering holding or executing any 〈◊〉 Councels and their decrees as appeared by refusing to come to the late Councell of Trent notwithstanding the Popes messengers letters of other great Princes which requested and inuited them to the same When a Realme or Prince is in error it taketh away all meanes of reducing them to the trueth againe no subiection being acknowledged to Councels or Tribunals abroad all other Bishoppes Patriarkes Apostles Christ and all because they were and bee forrainers not hauing iurisdiction nor sufficient authoritie to define against English Sectaries and errors Finally if this iurisdiction spirituall bee alwaies of right a sequele of the Crowne and scepter of all Kings assuredly Christ nor none of his Apostles could otherwise enter to conuert Countries preach and exercise iurisdiction spirituall without Caesars and others the Kinges of the Countries licence and delegation Theo. Upon what part of our doctrine inferre you these absurdities Phi. Upon the supremacie wherewith you flatter Princes For all these thinges be consequent to the princes ecclesiasticall soueraigntie Theo. You must tell vs howe Phi. See you not that Theo. Surely not I. There bee two partes of our assertion as I shewed you before the first auouching that Princes may commaunde for trueth and abolish errour the next that Princes bee supreme that is not subiect to the Popes iudiciall processe to bee cited suspended deposed at his becke
Upon one of these twayne if you reason against vs must your absurdities bee grounded The first you can not impugne but you must therewith impugne the Scriptures the best and most famous Princes of Christendome the Church of God it selfe which for eight hundred yeeres and vpwarde embraced and obeyed the Lawes and Edicts of religious Princes commaunding for truth And if you thinke you may say and vnsay with a breath and refell that now as absurd which I before proued and you yeelded to bee sounde and good doctrine take either of our positions rightly vnderstoode for your antecedent and marke howe ioyntlesse and senselesse the sequeles bee that you set downe for ineuitable consequents When Princes commaunde for trueth it is euident they commaund the selfe same thing that God commaundeth or rather as S. Augustine plainly declareth God himselfe commaundeth by their heartes that are in his handes the thinges which no man shoulde refuse Emperours saith hee commaund the selfe same thing that Christ commaundeth for when they commaund that which is good it is Christ and no man els that commandeth by them Againe Marke sayth hee with howe manifest trueth God himselfe speaketh by the Princes heart which is in his hande euen in this lawe which you complaine to bee made against you And therefore hee concludeth when Princes commaund for trueth Whosoeuer neglecteth their commaundement shall haue no part with God for not doing that which TRVETH BY THE KINGS HEART COMMAVNDED HIM TO DOE If you build your absurdities vpon the first part of our doctrine then must you thus conclude When God commandeth by the Princes heart that which is good in matters of religion The bodie is aboue the soule the sheepe aboue the Pastor the subiect is iudge of the Iudges yea of God himselfe and consequently Neither Christ neither any of his Apostles could enter to conuert Countries preach and exercise iurisdiction spirituall without Caesars licence and delegation Well your Rhetorike may beguile fooles sure your Logike will neuer enforce wise men to regard your conclusions Phi. Wee make no such arguments Theo. You must make these or worse The first part of our assertion is that Princes bee Gods seruants and ministers appointed to beare the sword with full commission to command what God commandeth and to prohibite what God prohibiteth as well in matters pertayning to religion as Ciuill iustice You inferre vpon vs that wee make The body aboue the soule the temporall regiment aboue the spirituall the earthly kingdome aboue Christes body mysticall the sheepe aboue the Pastor the subiect to bee iudge of the Iudges yea of God himselfe with many like childish and friuolous consequents Let your owne fauourers bee iudges in this case whether we be absurd in affirming that we doe or you more absurd in refelling vs as you doe If it be no absurditie with you for princes to command that which the Pope appointeth them as your selues defend that is your opinion what inconuenience can it bee for Princes to commaunde that which Christ the Soueraigne Lorde and head of the Church commaundeth which is all the power that wee giue to Princes notwithstanding your fayned and false reports in this slaunderous libell of yours to the contrarie Phi. Wee neuer denyed but Princes might commaund that which God commaundeth and in so doing they be rather to be commended for their pietie than to be charged with any absurditie Theo. And wee neuer affirmed that Princes might commaund that which God forbiddeth or prohibite that which God commandeth And therefore you must seeke out some others whome you may persue with your absurdities they touch no part of our doctrine Phi. They shewe what an absurd thing it is for temporall Princes to chalenge supreme power ouer Christes Church in causes of religion Theo. If you take the word supreme as it euer was and is defended by vs to make Princes free from the wrongfull and vsurped iurisdiction which the Pope claimeth ouer them your illations haue as litle strength and trueth as the former for what fond and vntoward reasons bee these If the Pope may not depose Princes and discharge their subiects from all obedience ergo we giue Power to the Queene to prescribe to the Preachers what to preach which way to worshippe and serue God howe and in what forme to minister the Sacraments to punish and depriue teach and correct them and generally to prescribe and appoint which way shee will bee gouerned in soule ergo wee make her free from ecclesiasticall discipline wee derogate from Christes Priesthoode and open the gap to all kinde of diuisions schismes sectes and disorders ergo there can bee no iurisdiction ouer English mens soules but proceeding and depending of her wee keepe the Realme from obedience to generall Councels and take away all meanes of reducing the Realme and Prince when they bee in error to the trueth againe with many such loose and vnsauory sequences Phi. If the Prince be supreme she may doe what she list in all matters of religion and Ecclesiasticall regiment and so these absurdities follow very directly vpon that assertion of yours Theo. That Princes may do what they list in matters of religion and the regiment of the Church is neither coherent nor consequent to our opinion but a wicked and wylie pretence of yours to cause men that can not so wel discerne of your sophismes to distrust our doctrine as false and absurde and in the meane time to conuey your selues awaie as it were in a mist vnespied And as for the wordes supreme gouernour which you wring and wrest to that purpose take the true construction of them as the oth importeth and we professe them and infer duly but one of your absurdities vpon them we yeeld you the rest Phi. What not one Theo. No not one descend to the specialties when you will Phi. It giueth power to the Queene to conferre that to others which she neither hath nor can haue nor doe her selfe as to the Priestes and Bishops to preach minister the Sacramentes haue cure of soules and such like Theo. It giueth no such power to the Queene as you speake of Bishoppes haue their authoritie to preach and minister the Sacramentes not from the Prince but from Christ himselfe Goe teach all nations baptising them so forth onely the Prince giueth them publike libertie without let or disturbance to do that which Christ commaundeth If you see no difference between the commission which Christ giueth vnto Bishops and the permission whereby Princes suffer and incite them with peace and praise to doe their duties your learning is not so great as you would make the world beleeue it is For what a foolish collection is this The Prince permitteth those that are sent of Christ to preach and administer the Sacramentes ergo the Prince conferreth that power or function to them You might as well conclude The Prince permitteth men to liue
answere Quando se nostro iudicio quibusuis acceptis literis cum sciat damnandum esse committet Qui si accersendus esset ab ijs melius fieret quimagis proximi non longo terrarum spacio videntur esse dsâ—iuncti When will hee commit himselfe to our iudgement write I what letters I will whereas hee knoweth hee shal be condemned And if hee were to bee sent for they may better doe it that are neerer to him and not so farre distant from him as I am Innocentius 400. yeeres after Christ confesseth hee had not sufficient authoritie to call one poore Briton out of this Realme And two hundred yeeres after that the Bishoppes of Britannie woulde yeelde no subiection to him that was sent from Rome nor accept him for their Archbishoppe And euen their manner of baptizing obseruing Easter and other ecclesiasticall institutions contrarie to the rites and customes of the Church of Rome as Augustine the Monke then obiected vnto them make manifest proofe that they were neuer vnder the iurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome Fourthly the Pope coueting and affecting to bee that hee was not disdayned and refused euer since the conquest to bee that hee was and so by his owne fact hath extinguished his owne right if any hee gate in the time of the Saxons who to settle themselues in the possession of this Realme after the chasing out of the Britons were soone entreated to receiue the Bishoppe of Rome for their Patriarke And seeing the headshippe of the Church which hee violently and wrongfully enforced vpon the Normans by Gods Lawe is not his no reason hee should now clayme by his Patriarkshippe which himselfe aspiring to higher tytles so many hundred yeres disused and contemned Lastly the Kinges of England for the most part of them from the Conquerour to this day in the right of their Crowne haue either resisted or rebated the iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall which the Pope claymed in this Lande Wherefore hee was neuer any long tyme in full and quiet possession of his pretensed power in this Realme And her Maiesties Father and brother excluding him both from that authoritie which hee woulde haue ouer this Iland as vnlawfull and repugnant to the woord of God and also from that which for these fiue hundred yeeres and vpward himselfe neglected and omitted had Gods Lawes and mans Lawes for the warrant of their doings and for their leauing him no kind of power or preeminence within this Realme So that his Uicarshippe to Christ must bee prooued by stronger and playner euidence than yet you haue shewed before wee may graunt it And as for his Patriarkeshippe which you woulde nowe take holde of by Gods Lawe hee hath none in this Realme for sixe hundred yeeres after Christ hee had none for the last sixe hundred as looking to greater matters hee woulde haue none aboue or against the sword which God hath ordayned hee can haue none to the subuersion of the fayth and oppression of his brethren in reason right and equitie hee should haue none You must seeke farther for subiection to his Tribunal this Land oweth him nonâ— Phi. Finally if this iurisdiction spirituall bee alwayes of right a sequele of the crowne and Scepter of all kinges assuredly Christ nor none of his Apostles coulde otherwise enter to conuert Countries preach and exercise iurisdiction spiritual without Caesars and others the kings of the countries licence and delegation Theo. Finally if this bee all you can say you may wipe your bill and goe to rest You were told before that Princes haue no right to call or confirme Preachers but to receiue such as bee sent of God and giue them libertie for their preaching and securitie for their persons if Princes refuse so to doe Gods labourers must goe forward with that which is commaunded them from heauen not by disturbing Princes from their thrones nor inuading their Realmes as your holy father doth and defendeth hee may doe but by myldly submitting themselues to the powers on earth and meekely suffering for defence of the trueth what they shall inflict Howe you gather out of this or any wordes of ours that Christ and his Apostles might not preach the Gospell without Cesars delegation and licence from others the kinges of the Countries whither they went I see not except you take the woord supreme for superiour to Christ and all which as I haue often signified vnto you standeth neither with our assertion nor intention but is a very pestilent and impudent sophistication of yours which you still repeate though we still refute Phi. The word supreme is such a Laberinth that wee knowe not what to make of it Theo. You know well enough but you will not acknowledge the true meaning of the woord lest you should discouer your selues and discredite your cause For then either you must shewe which you are no way able to doe that the Pope as a superiour iudge may lawfully commaunde punish and displace Princes if they withstande him or else with vs confesse Princes to bee supreme which your stomackes will not abide And therefore finding your proofes too slender to beare vp the height of his pride and the loade of your follie you thought best to skippe it ouer and in all your Apologie not so much as to offer vs one halfe woorde for the confirmation of the superioritie which the Pope claymeth ouer Princes that being the right construction of the word supreme the first occasion why princes were so called but to braule rather with vs about some words of ours and therefore to make such monsterous and impious imaginations that the simple should be afraid at the very sound of theÌ„ as though we made the prince supreme that is superiour to Christ himselfe and Christs master gaue her absolute infinite power to doe what she listed in al ecclesiastical matters and taught that trueth and faith Scriptures and Sacraments vocation of ministers remission of sinnes preaching baptising and seruing God must proceed from her Soueraigne right and depend on her only will and in this vaine you runne on with a iolly persuasion of your selues that you worke woonders when indeed you doe nothing but leudly peruert our wordes and falsely charge vs with your owne fictions Phi. Neuer burden vs with the peruerting of your words we take them as we finde them and as you sayd before to vs we be not bound to search for your meaning if there bee any generalitie or ambiguitie in your words which you ment not the blame is yours that made choise of such Theo. Cease you to wrest them against the grounds of faith and rules of speach receaued and vsed on both sides we aske you no fauor our wordes be sound and good We call her highnes the Gouernour of this Realm that is the publike magistrat bearing the sword which God hath ordained to commaund good things and punish euill as well in religion as ciuill policie
must haue Theo. The charge which Christ gaue Peter to feede his sheepe is common to all Pastours But with the mercy which Christ shewed him in conuerting him and restoring him after his fall what haue his successors to do Christ promised Peter repentance will you therefore inferre that all Popes haue the like promises Or had they as they haue not doeth this let but they may forsweare their master and loose their faith as Peter did notwithstanding this praier and promise of Christ made vnto him Phi. But they shall also repent as Peter did Theo. If you could proue that promise to pertaine vnto them as you can not yet might their errour be publike and their conuersion secret as Peters was and since they bee subiect to Peters fall namely to denie both their faith and their master though they were promised repentance with him as they bee not yet howe can you knowe what thinges proceeded from the Popes mouth erring and which from the Popes hart repenting Which vnlesse you doe you may erre with him to your eternall confusion and not repent with him for that you haue not the like promise Phi. I will bee with you to the worldes ende saith Christ and hee forsaketh those that erre So that if the church should erre this promise of his were not kept which God forbid Theo. You shew the goodnesse of your cause when you reele thus from the Pope to the church and from the church to the Pope and yet finde nothing to fitte you Christ is with euery one of his and not onely with the Pope as you would haue the place to sound and yet I thinke you will not affirm that no christian can erre Many good men haue erred euen in matters of faith and yet not beene forsaken of Christ. The longer you reason the farther you bee from prouing that the Pope can not erre For this promise concerneth him no more than it doth any other christian and perhaps not so much or if it did yet doth it not free him from errour Phi. The promise which is generall to euery member of the church concerneth him chiefly that is head of the church Theo. Keepe this head of yours till the body need it the church of Christ hath a surer and better head thā the Pope or else it were ill with her Phi. Christ we know is the head of his church and the onely head in such soueraigne and principall manner as no earthly man is or can be yet the Pope may be the ministeriall head Theo. When you proue it then say it in the meane while abuse not the word of God to serue your follies Christ dwelleth in the hartes of all that bee his by faith with them he remaineth vntill the worldes end What is this to the Pope or how doth this fense him from errour Phi. If he be Christs he can not erre Theo. This text doth not proue him to be one of Christs but if he bee then Christ is with him as hee is with all other his members Phi. And they can not erre with whom Christ is Theo. Bee these your demonstrations that the Pope can not erre to shewe for him no better nor other priuilege than that which is common to him with women children if they be mēbers of Christ And were he a mēber of Christ which as yet for ought that I see you can hardly proue hee might be deceiued in some cases of religion as well as Lactantius Irineus Cyprian and others men of great learning and good account in the church of God Phi. Our Sauiour saieth it is not possible that the electe shoulde be seduced Theo. Not possible they should bee seduced to fall from God as the wicked are Yet as they may sinne but not vnto death euen so may they erre but not vnto destruction Their errour shall either be not finall or not mortall Phi. May they that erre bee saued Theo. If they holde fast the foundation which is Christ and erre not of wilfull obstinacie but of humane frailtie why may they not bee saued S. Cyprian said of those that were before him If any of our predecessours either ignorantly or simply did not obserue and keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God And S. Augustin said of him when an errour of his was alleadged by the Donatistes for their defence Cyprian either was not all of this opinion or he after corrected it by the rule of truth or this blemish in his most beautifull brest he couered with the teates of charity And farther alleadgeth and alloweth this saying of Cyprians Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti he that erreth of simplicity may be pardoned Of himselfe and all others S. Augustine saith Homines sumus vnde aliquid aliter sapere quà m se res habet humana tentatio est In nullo autem aliter sapere quā se res habet Angelica perfectio est We are men and therefore to thinke otherwise than the truth is is humane infirmitie or a tentation common to man To be deceiued in nothing is Angelicall perfection And therefore writing to S. Hierom and of S. Hierom he saith Prorsus non te arbitror sic legi libros tuos velle tanquam Prophetarum aut Apostolorum de quorum scriptis quòd omni errore careant dubitare nefarium Absit hoc à pia humilitate veraci de temetipso cogitatione I am fully of opinion that you would not haue your books to be read in such sort as wee do the Prophetes and Apostles of whose writinges to doubt whether they be free from all errour is wickednesse Be this far from godly humilitie and the true perswasion of your selfe So that set the Apostles aside and their writinges no man ought to thinke of himselfe that hee can not erre neither can you haue that opinion of any man without a proude false perswasion aboue mans state and against Gods truth Phi. What shall wee then saie to the promise which our Lorde made to his When hee the spirite of trueth commeth hee shall teach you all trueth Theo. If it bee referred to the Apostles then present with him as the wordes next before doe specifie I haue yet many things to saie vnto you but you can not beare them nowe wee graunt those witnesses chosen by Christ to teach all Nations were to bee furnished with all trueth and to bee established in the same but if it bee extended to all the faithfull they also shall bee ledde into all trueth needefull and requisite to saluation I meane the substantiall groundes of faith though in some questions of Religion happilie they shall not all bee like minded Phi. And what for the Churche shall shee haue no parte in this promise Theoph. If the faythfull haue the Church which is the number and collection of the faythfull must needes haue But that the
deponitur For heresie the Pope is ipso facto deposed and no inconuenience And to that ende hee alleadgeth Petrus de Palude saying Papa quando labitur in haeresin tunc â—o ipso est praecisus ab Ecclesia desinit esse caput The Pope when hee falleth into an heresie is presently cutte off from the Church and ceaseth to bee the heade of it So Gerson the Chauncellour of Paris Tam Papa quam Episcopus deuiabiles à fide The Pope may swarue from the fayth as well as an other Bishop The generall councell of Basill saith Saepe experti sumus legimus Papam errasse Wee haue often both found out by experience and reade that the Pope hath erred And againe Cum certum sit Papam errare posse For so much as it is certaine the Pope may erre Aeneas Syluius afterwarde Pius the seconde inueying against them that woulde not haue councels gathered without the Popes consent saith What remedie shall there bee if a sinnefull Pope trouble the Church if hee destroie soules if hee peruert the people with his euill example Si denique contraria fidei praedicet haereticisque dogmatibus imbuat subditos If he teach against the faith and infect those that be vnder him with hereticall opinions Cardinall Caietane and Pope Innocentius the fourth though they had good cause to fauour the See of Rome yet were they clearely resolued the Pope might erre and so were all the writers of your owne religion before this our age that euer I hearde of and euen at this day the sincerest of them dislike the vnshamefastnesse of your assertion Papa in fide errare potest vt melius sentientes tenent etiam ex hijs qui Papatui plurimum fauent Inter quos est Innocentius eius nominis quartus Pontifex in cap. 1. De summa Trinitate The Pope may erre in fayth as the truer opinion is euen of them that fauour the popedome verie much Amongest whome is Innocentius the fourth of that name Bishoppe of Rome writing vppon the first chapter De summa Trinitate Arboreus a Doctor of Paris and one of your chiefe Sorbonistes Papa in fide errare Potest Et tota mihi aberrare via videtur qui aliter sentit Assentantur sane Romano Pontifici qui faciunt cum immunem à lapsu haereseos schismatis The Pope may erre in fayth And he seemeth to mee to bee in foule errour that thinketh otherwise Surely they doe but flatter the Bishoppe of Rome that make him free from falling into heresie and schisme Erasmus pithily impugneth your inconsiderate follie If it bee true which some say that the Bishop of Rome can neuer erre iudicially what neede generall councels Why are men skilled in the lawes and learned in diuinitie sent for to councels if hee pronouncing can not erre To what purpose are so many Vniuersities troubled with handling questions of faith when truth may be had from his mouth Nay how commeth it to passe that the decrees of one Pope are repugnaÌ„t to the decrees of an other This perswasion of yours must needes be naught which so many of your owne side haue condemned before our dayes and the sobrest of your selues that haue written since our time doe vtterly disclaime And therefore aduise you whether you will faierly resigne this fansie or be conuinced by the verdict of your fellowes for men-pleasers and flatterers It is farre from a Catholike position which your owne church in the midst of darkenesse would neuer acknowledge and at this daie none defende but such hungrie ghestes as you be that gape for thankes and seeke to please Phi. You falsely charge vs with vnhonest respectes Theo. It is not my iudgement of you but theirs that otherwise haue no cause to thinke euill of you Phi. The reason that moueth vs so to say is for that we finde no Pope that euer erred Theo. You refuse Councels Fathers Stories and all that come in your way because you will not finde it Phi. We refuse not that is ancient or indifferent but onely such as we thinke partiall Theo. Then if there bee no cause why they should be partiall you will admit them for credible Phi. We will Theo. We expect no more What say you then to Clemens the first of that name as you make your account though wee thinke it a leude forgerie in his name Doe not your own Decrees report out of his decretall epistles that amongest christians al things ought to be common euen wiues and all Communis vita omnibus fratres necessaria est Communis enim vsus omnium quae sunt in hoc mundo omnibus esse hominibus debuit In omnibus autem sunt sine dubio coniuges A common life is necessarie for all men brethren the vse of all thinges that are in this world ought to be common to all men And in al things no doubt are wiues contained Phi. He meaneth not the carnall vse of women but their domestical seruice ought to be common Theo. So your gloze would make vp the breach but all in vaine For Socrates in Platoes common wealth whom your Clemens in this place citeth and calleth Graecorum sapientissimum the wisest of the Graecians rehearsing the prouerbe which Clemens here vseth inferreth that the coniunction of men women and procreation of children ought to bee common which is a monstruous and heinous errour And were that excused the the rest is a shamefull absurditie that all other thinges ought of necessitie to bee common amongst christians For the Scriptures do not exact that no maÌ„ should possesse any thing but onely that charitie should gladly distribute supply the wantes of such as neede Phi. Your selfe thinke this to be forged in Clementes name Theo. We do but you do not and therefore against you the instance is good The next is Tertullians testimonie who saith of the Bishop of Rome that he agnised the prophesies of Montanus and sent letters of communion and peace to the churches in Asia and Phrygia that were of that sect Phi. But hee reuoked those letters and ceased from that purpose as Tertullian also confesseth Theo. Hee reuoked them after they were sent and ceased from that which he first acknowledged Episcopum Romanum tunc agnoscentem prophetias Montani ex ea cognitione pacem Ecclesiis Asia Phrygiae inferentem falsa de ipsis prophetis adseuerando coegit literas pacis reuocare tam emissas a proposito recipiendorum schismatum concessare Praxeas the heretike forced the Bishoppe of Rome then agnising the Prophesies of Montanus and vppon good liking of them giuing peace to their Churches in Asia and Phrygia to reuoke his letters of coÌ„munion when they were sent and to cease from his purpose of embracing their doctrine Phi. Tertullian was of that sect himselfe and therefore no indifferent witnes Theo. Indifferent enough to report the fact though not to iudge
the Recordes that lay at Rome in your own keeping and the thing not spied Phi. A name is soone thrust in Theo. But whole sentences and whole leaues can not bee thrust in without stealing away the original laying a counterfeit in place thereof which was easie to be discerned Honorius cause is mentioned discussed in 26 seueral places of the councell two of his epistles repeated at large one of 9. skore 12. lines the other of threeskore and sixteene lynes which argue the whole councel to be forged or these branches concerning Honorius to be as sincere as the rest Phi. One Councell is soone corrupted Theo. But may you reiect your owne Recordes as forged and bring neither reason suspition nor probabilitie when by whom or how this was or could bee done Giue vs leaue to doe the like to the rest of your Romish Records where good cause leadeth vs and see what wil become of your Religion Phi. In deede this one we thinke to be forged Theo. A generall Councell repeating the matter which you sticke at more than twentie times and lying safe in your owne custodie you suspect to bee forged and vpon no ground but onely because it condemneth a Bishoppe of Rome for an heretike and yet you can not denie that but you must denie more Leo the second accursed Honorius his predecessour for the same heresie The seconde Councell of Nice which you greatly reuerence and call the seuenth generall Councell confesseth Honorius was condemned in the sixt generall Councell and themselues reiect him by name for an heretike whereto the Legates of Adrian then Bishoppe of Rome there present consented and subscribed Adrian the seconde in a Councell at Rome confessed that Honorius once Bishoppe of Rome was accused of heresie and condemned after his death by the consent of the Romane See and this his confession was read and allowed in the eight generall Councell of Constantinople If al these be forged that at Rome where your selues were the keepers how good cause haue we to suspect the rest of your euideÌ„ce which tend chiefly to vphold the Popes pride to encrease his gaine agree neither with theÌ„selues nor with the state of those times wherein they should be written nor with the best and approued stories of the Church Phi. Synce three generall Councels recken Honorius as condemned of heresie and specially the Decretall of Leo the second which the Bishoppes of Rome woulde soone haue disclaimed if it had beene suspected I dare not say that all these are forged for feare lest I ouerthrowe the credite of all Romane Recordes and therefore I thinke rather the Councell that first condemned him mistooke his meaning or that the letters which they sawe were written in his name by some euill willers of his both which cases are possible Theo. You mend this gappe and make a bigger You saue the Romane Libraries from corrupt Recordes and vpbrayde a generall councel with rash iudgement and lacke of vnderstanding for if they condemned Honorius not onely their brother but also their better as you take him and the head of the Church for an heretike and that after his death and either conceiued not the sense of his woordes or tooke not heede to the seale and subscription of his letters that those were Authentike they deseruâ—d not to bee counted Christians much lesse to goe for a lawfull and generall Councell And the Bishoppes of Rome that came after and confirmed the same when they might and should haue reprooued the Councell of indiscretion or malice and defended the innocencie of Honorius were not successours to him but conspiratours against him and so none of your shiftes are either sound or likely Howsoeuer you wrangle with the fact yet this is euident and without contradiction that three generall Councels eche after other were of opinion the Pope might liue and die an heritike and Agatho Leo Adrian the first and second all Bishoppes of Rome confessed thus much by their Decretals and yeelded thereto by their subscriptions Which if you graunt condemne or acquite Honorius of heresie at your pleasures Wee haue the full consent of the East and West Churches that the Bishoppe of Rome may erre which you at this present so stifly deny Phi. If one did erre the number is not so great Theo. If one did others may yet I haue named three that were condemned for heresie and Apostasie Marcellinus Liberius Honorius and moe I might that erred in like manner as Vigilius Anastatius Celestinus and others but I see you are determined to beleeue none that make against you in this point and therefore I were as good saue my labour as spend longer time with one that is past all sense Phi. If you prooue they erred I will not defende them Theo. But in reporting their sayings and doings you giue credite to none bee they neuer so indifferent and auncient Phi. Wee credite them if a greater number of writers doe not contradict them Theo. If certaine late fauourers of the Pope without trueth or shame doe gainesay the Stories that went before them thinke you the partiall and corrupt writinges of such men woorthie to bee taken against others that bee both elder and syncerer Phi. I euer goe with antiquitie and vniuersalitie Theo. But when you come to the push you care neither for fathers nor Councels Prouinciall nor generall if they crosse your affections or touch the Popes ambition There ancient writers liuing in the same time with Liberius affirme that he subscribed to the Arrians and Sozomene that wrate within 40. yeres of the deed doing saith no lesse you beleeue neither them nor your owne stories which with one consent followed that report till some in our age to make the Popes Tribunal infallible began not only to doubt but also to deny Liberius fact Two general Councels condemne Honorius for an heretike and the third auouâ—heth him to haue been condemned not without the knowledge of his successours the bishops of Rome that came after him You regard neither Popes nor Synods where they say that Honorius erred in other things where you thinke they make with you they shall be sacred and auncient fathers Councels as though you were not bound to yeeld vnto trueth but that onely were trueth which liked you Phi. Liberius was forced and Honorius deceiued with a likelyhood of trueth this is all you can get of these sacred and ancient fathers and Councels Theo. We need no more No man falleth from the faith but he is either forced or deceiued and yet this wee get besides which we most esteeme that these fathers and Councels were of opinion and saw by experience the Bishop of Rome did and might erre Yeeld to this and wee remit you the rest Phi. Not till I see what else you will bring You talke of Vigilius and Anastasius but I thinke more than you can proue Theo. Of Vigillius
Thus S. Cyril largely sheweth In the proposition of Caiphas there is contained a double sense one which Caiphas himselfe ment that it was expedient Christ should die by the hands of the Iewes lest the whole Nation should bee destroyed by the Romanes This was a false and wicked meaning comming from the lewd intention of Caiphas An other sense of the same proposition was intended by the holy Ghost that it was needfull that only Christ should die for the saluation of the whole world This Caiphas neither vnderstood nor ment yet his wordes were such as might fitly serue this sense of the holy Ghost For Caiphas himself as crueller readier to wickednes and bloodier than the rest encourageth others staggering at it by saying you perceaue nothing neither vnderstād you that it is expediēt the life of one man should be neglected for the whole coūtrie Phi. He spake this by the holy Ghost Theo. The diuell possessed his hart but the power of God restrained and ordered his speach Phi. Had he not the Spirit of Prophesie Theo. No more than Saul the bloudsucker had when he praied for Dauid whom hee sought to kill than Iudas the traytor had when he iustified his master and hanged himselfe yea than the Dyuell had when hee confessed and intreated the Sonne of God not to torment him before his time Phi. Why then doth S. Iohn giue this note of him that he was hie Priest for that yere Theo. S. Iohn noteth this that it pleased God so to temper the hie Priests wordes that where hee spake to hasten the death of our Sauiour his wordes sounded that the people should vtterly perish without the death of Christ which was most true but not his meaning Phi. His tongue spake trueth though his hart did erre Theo. Satan poisoned his hart but GOD bridled his mouth Phi. Can not God doe the like to the Bishop of Rome Theo. No doubt he can but you must proue that he will Phi. If he did so to Caiphas much more will hee do it to the head of his Church Theo. How hangeth this geare together Hee did once so to Caiphas ergo hee will always doe the like where you list to haue it Phi. Not where we list but where he will Theo. That helpeth you litle God can do the like where whē he wil. What is that to the Bishop of Rome We doubt not of Gods power but smile at your folly which conclude this to be ordinarie in the Pope which was extraordinarie in Caiphas Phi. It was ordinarie in Caiphas by reason of his office and so saith S. Iohn The. S. Iohn doth not say it was ordinarie either in al hie priests or in Caiphas for Caiphas himself the very same yere as S. Matt. witnesseth iudicially pronounced our Sauiour to be a blasphemer which I hope you will not say came from the direction of the holy Ghost The hie Priest therefore did erre and that most hainously in iudgement and if this be al your hold the Pope may doe the like Phi. What may be is hard to determine But this we know the Pope did neuer yet erre sitting in his Tribunal to giue iudgement Theo. As though the place and not the Pope had assurance of trueth annexed vnto it What holines hath the Consistorie to safegard the iudge from error The promise of Christ was made to the person and not to the place Phi. To the person but sitting in iudgement Theo. Did Peter sitte in iudgement at that time when he denied his master Phi. Wee say not so Theo But that night was the promise made vnto him and that night performed in him when Peter poore man stoode warming himselfe amongst the manye and durst not answer the first interrogatorie that a silly wenche proposed to him And therefore Christ neuer spake of your Courtes nor Consistories but promised Peter to pardon his fault and to strengthen his faith lest hee should perseuere in that his Apostasie Phi. Had we no warrant for the Bishop of Rome that his faith shall not faile yet experience proueth this which we say to be true that he neuer erred iudicially that is sitting in his Consistorie Theo. What need we care where he sate so long as we bee sure he did erre What wrangling is this to aske for the place where and the time when the Pope spake the wordes Hee that may erre at home may likewise erre abroade If the Pope bee an heretike in his chamber hee can be no Catholike in his Consistorie Phi. Definitiue sentence he neuer gaue any against the faith Theo. What are his decretals but definitiue sentences And in those he hath erred Phi. Neuer Theo. The Decretal of Clemens which I before alleaged is altogether erronious They were two Decretall Epistles for the which Honorius was condemned The decretal of Vigilius which Liberatus remembreth is expresly against the faith Celestinus erred iudicially as your owne friendes confesse but you haue pared that Decretall as you haue done many others and left out the later part lest we should spie the fault Phi. Who told you so Theo. They that had no cause to belie you Alfonsus a great Patrone of your side sayth It is a thing manifest to al men that Pope Celestinus erred touching the mariage of the faithful when either part falleth into heresie Neither was this error of Celestinus such as ought to be imputed only to negligence so that we may say he erred as a priuate person and not as Pope because this decision of Celestinus was in the auncient Decratals which I my selfe haue seene and read Innocentius the third when he decided the case confessed that one of his predecessours had decreed otherwise which saith the gloze was Celestinus whose resolution was in the olde Decretals and it was euil that Celestinus sayd Alexander the 3. in a matter of great importance said Quamuis aliter a quibusdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum though some of our predecessours haue heretofore otherwise giuen iudgement Phi. These were matters of mariage and not of faith Theo. As though the seuering of those whom God hath ioyned did not touch the faith and so did some of these Popes and that iudicially by their contrarie Decrees Againe Nicolas the fourth sayth in his Decretal that To renounce the proprietie of all thinges not in special only but in common also is meritorious and holy which Christ taught by word and confirmed by example and the first foūders of the militant church deriued to others by the paterne of their doctrine life Iohn the 22. sayth it is hereticall to affirme that Christ his Apostles had nothing in speciall nor in common Phi. The next extrauagant reconcileth them both Theo. The Pope laboureth for life to shift off the matter at last commeth with a very iest De sola abdicatione proprietatis non iuris alterius in praefata declaratione
sworde which the Prince and not the Priest beareth in Gods behalfe to force refusers and chastiâ—e malefactours as I before at large haue proued And so by consequent Princes are neither bound to the Popes hest for direction nor in daunger of the Popes court for correction but that they may by the aduise and instruction of such as bee learned and godly pastors about them vse their swords for the receiuing setling of trueth and perfect establishing of Christs wil testament within their owne realmes without expectâ—ng or regarding what the bishops of Rome and his adherentes like or allow Phi. But all this while you resolue not who shall be iudge which is the true will and Testament of Christ. Theo. Let him that maketh the claime vndertake the proofe We find no place nor person to whom the sonne of God hath referred vs for the right vnderstanding of his wil but only to himselfe Phi. You bind the people to followe the Prince which of all others is the worst way to come by truth Theo. We bind no man to prince nor Pope for matters of faith Only we say subiects must endure their princes with patience when they command for error obey them with diligence when they maintaine the truth Farther or other seruitude in causes of conscience wee lay on no man and that burden the church of Christ neuer refused neither vnder heretikes Apostataes nor infidels til the Pope growing great by the ruine of the Empire and encreasing as fast in pride as he did in wealth would needs giue the aduenture to rule kingdomes depose Princes though by Gods lawe hee haue no more power nor iurisdiction ouer them than any other Bishop hath which is so farre from that he claimeth and vsurpeth that he as well as other Bishops should be subiect to the sword and obedient to the lawes of the Romane Emperour and so was hee as I haue plainely shewed to the time that forsaking the Grecians and reuolting from the Germanes hee learned to chaunge Lords so often that at length what with sedition of subiects dissention of princes superstition of al sorts the mysterie of iniquitie working he made himselfe Lord and master of all Phi. You bee lothe I see to yeeld the bishop of Rome any right to force princes to their dueties Theo. And you be as willing he should not only take their crownes but tread on their neckes though hee haue no right to superuise their doings or censure their persons Phi. If it be not his right we aske it not Theo. If it be his right we resist it not Phi. Will you admit it if we proue it Theo. Will you not claime it except you proue it Phi. We will not Theo. Then say what you will or can for the confirmation of it THE THIRD PART REFELLETH THE IESVITES REASONS AND authorities for the Popes depriuing of Princes and the bearing of armes by subiectes against their Soueraignes vpon his censures declareth the tyrannies iniuries of Antichrist seeking to exalt himselfe aboue kings and Princes and conuinceth that no deposition was offered by the Pope for a thowsande yeares after Christ and none agnised by any Christian Prince vntill this present daie Phi. THE Pope may reproue Princes excommunicate them and if neede bee depose them which other Bishoppes can not doe Theo. Seuer these thinges which you ioyne togither and the truth will the sooner appeare Reproue them he may when they violate the precepts of God and so may any other Bishop or teacher For God hath placed them in his church to teach reproue instruct reforme as wel Princes as others charged them not to conceale one word of that he hath spoken neither for fauour nor terrour of any Prince The will of God must be declared to all and sinne reproued in all without dissembling or flattering with any sort or State of men and that is most expedient for all euen for Princes themselues rather to heare with humilitie what God hath decreed for their saluation than to run to their owne destruction without recalling or warning So Samuel reproued king Saul Ahias king Ieroboam Elias king Achab Elizeus king Iehoram Iohn Baptist king Herod Neither were wicked Princes onely but also the good and vertuous kinges of Iudah reproued by the Prophets as namely king Dauid by Nathan king Iehosaphat by Iehu and Ezechias by the Prophet Esaie but this reproofe reached no farther than to put them in minde of Gods graces and mercies towardes them and their dueties againe towardes him They neuer offered violence to their Persons nor preiudice to their States onely they did Gods message vnto them without halting or doubling and so should euery Preacher and Bishop not feare with meekenesse and reuerence to laye before Princes the sacred and righteous will of God without respect whether Princes tooke it in good or euill part But farther or other attemptes against Princes than in wordes to declare the will and precepts of God God hath not permitted vnto Preachers Prophets Prelats nor Popes Phi. Yes they may repell them from the Sacramentes which is more than reprouing them in words Theo. If you meane they may not minister the Sacramentes vnto Princes without faith and repentance which God requireth of men that shall be baptized or haue accesse to his table we graunt they must rather hazard their liues than baptize Princes which beleeue not or distribute the Lordes mysteries to them that repent not but giue wilful and open signification of impietie to the dishonoring of his name that is authour of those thinges and the prophaning of the thinges them-selues which bee holie and vndefiled For if Princes will bee partakers of Gods aboundaunt blessinges proposed in Christ his Sonne to all that beleeue and conuert they must not looke to commaund God and his Sacramentes but with lowlines of hart assuraunce of fayth and amendment of life submit themselues vnder the mighty hand of God to receiue his graces in such sort as hee hath prescribed otherwise they prouoke God to their vtter and eternall ouerthrowe and the minister that ioyned with them in their sinnes shall not bee seuered from them in their plagues God hating and punishing the pride and presumption of Princes against him-selfe as much as the vices of meaner men or rather more No small vengeance sayth Chrysostom hangeth ouer your heades which be ministers if you suffer any heynous offendour to be partaker of this table His blood shall be required at your hands Whether he be Captaine Lieutenant or crowned king if hee come vnworthily forbid him in this case thy power is greater than his Phi. If they may be excommunicated ergo they may be deposed Theo. How doth that follow Phi. Well enough When a Prince is excommunicated hee looseth all right to rule and his subiectes are streight-wayes free from yeelding any obedience to him Theo. Who tould you so Phi. No catholike Diuine of
you bee â—owly deceiued Your consequent is as false as your antecedent is true That Princes shoulde vse their swordes for the seruice of GOD is a cleare and vndoubted principle but that Prophetes Priests or Popes may take their Scepters from them if they vse them otherwise than they ought this is a false presumption of yours and not a consequent either of your former examples or your later excurrents where you fâ—â—rish about with many pretences and prefaces to shew the reason of your wicked assertion Phi. Our conclusion is that the Priests and Prophets rightly opposed themselues in all such actions as tended to the dishonour of God and destruction of religion and in the behalfe of God executed iustice vpon such as contrarie to their obligation and first institution abused their soueraigne power to the aduancement of Idolatrie heresie Theo. What wordes you list to colour and cloake your conclusion with wee care not The matter in question betwixt vs is not whether Prophetes might oppose themselues by way of reproofe or do that which God commaunded them to the terror of Idolatrous Princes which you call executing of iustice in Gods behalfe vpon such as abused their power But in plaine termes whether euer any Priest or Prophet by vertue of their vocation as superiour Iudges did violently withstand or iudicially depose Idolatrous or hereticall Princes You take vppon you to proue by holy Scripture they did we say they did not They reproued them and threatned them by special direction and message from God they neuer deposed any Onely God sent one of them to will Iehu to take the sword in hand and as a lawfull magistrate nominated and elected by God himselfe to take vengeance on Achabs house and race Whence it will not follow that other Priests and Prophets by their ordinarie calling might do the like or giue Crownes and kingdomes as they sawe cause This was and is specially reserued vnto God When hee speaketh the worde Princes shall loose not only Scepter and State but life and soule and vntill hee speake neither Apostles nor Prophets Priests nor Popes may presume to dispose kingdomes or name successours to the Crownes of earthly Princes Phi. In these cases and all other doubtes and differences betwixt one man and an other or betwixt Prince and people that Priestes and namely the high Priest shoulde bee the Arbiter and Iudge the interpreter of Gods wil towards his people is most consonant both to nature reason the vse of all nations and to the expresse Scriptures For in Gods sacred Law thus we read Si difficile ambiguum apud te iudicium esse prospexeris inter sanguinem sanguinem causam causam lepram non lepram c. If thou foresee the iudgement to be hard and ambiguous betwixt bloud and bloud cause and cause leprosie or no leprosie and find varietie of sentences among the iudges at home rise and goe vp to the place which the Lorde thy God shall chuse and thou shalt come to the Priests of Leuies stocke and to the iudge that shall be for the time thou shalt aske of them they will iudge according to the trueth of iudgement and thou shalt doe whatsoeuer they say that haue the rule of the place which God shall chuse and shall teache thee according to his lawe thou shalt not decline neither to the right hand nor left And if any shall bee so proude as not to obey the commandement of the Priest that shall for that time minister vnto the Lord thy God by the sentence of the iudge let that man die and so thou shalt remoue euil from Israel and al the people hearing shall feare and take heede that hereafter they waxe not proude Thus farre in the holy text generally with out all exception subiecting in cases of such doubtes as are recited all degrees of faithfull men no lesse kinges than others to the Priests resolution Theo. What will you doe to help your cause that will thus both corrupt wrest the Scriptures to make them serue your fansies You wilfully peruert the words of the holy Ghost to bring them to your beck and as if that were not corruption enough you wrench force the sense of the Scripture against reasoÌ„ against trueth against the whole course of the Iewes common wealth against the very partes and branches of the text it selfe Phi. First what corruption haue wee committed in the wordes Theo. That where the wordes are If any through pride will not obay the commaundement of the Priest which shall for the time minister vnto the Lord thy God or disobay the Decree of the Iudge that man shall die you change them and say If any man will not obay the commaundement of the Priest by the Decree of the Iudge that man shall die Phi. So the latine is Ex decreto â—udicis morietur homo ille By the decree of the Iudge shal that man die Theo. But the Greeke and Hebrue are cleane against it The words of the Septuagint are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The man whosoeuer he be that shal in pride not obay the Priest that is appointed to minister vnto the name of the Lord or els shal not obay the iudge which shal be in those daies that man shal die thou shalt take the euil one from Israel The Hebrew is answerable to the Greeke The man that shal doe in pride Lebilthi shemóahh el-haccohèn hahhomèd Lesháreth shà m eth-Iehouà elohéca ò el-hasshophèt umeth haïsh hahù not to heare the Priest or the Iudge that man shall die And so did Cyprian repete this text Et homo quicunque fecerit in superbia vt non exaudiat Sacerdotem aut Iudicem quicunque fuerit in diebus illis morietur homo ille omnis populus cum audierit timebit And the man whosoeuer shall in pride not heare the Priest OR THE IVDGE which shal be in those dayes that man shal die and al the people when they heare of it shall feare Phi. But S. Hierom read it otherwise as you see by his translation Theo. You haue corrupted the translation which you call S. Hieroms and now you would bolster out your forgeries with his name Howbeit knowe you that the very same translatioÌ„ not long since was not Ex decreto iudicis but decreto iudicis He that obeyeth not the coÌ„mandement of the Priest and the decree of the iudge that man shall die This was the text of the Bible which you cal S. Hierome not much more than 200 yeres since when Nicolaus de Lyra your ordinarie Glosse did coÌ„ment vpon it And so they read to this day as also many written copies that I haue seene Hereupon Lyra saith In these such cases they must haue recourse to the superiour Iudges that is to the high Priest and the Iudge of the people And sometimes it fell out that both offices did concurre in one person
superficial it skilleth not refel it or receiue it Theo. Marke the strength of your argument Needlesse companie with idolatrous wicked persons is prohibited ergo the necessarie subiection to Princes which God commandeth may be refused Phi. We say not needelesse companie but all companie Theo. S. Paul by that worde excludeth not charity much lesse duetie but barreth only that familiaritie which may be relinquished without breach of either Phi. That is your paraphrase not S. Pauls Theo. Weigh the wordes of S. Paul better and your selfe will bee of the same minde with me Thus he saith I wrote vnto you by letters that ye should not keepe companie with fornicatours and I ment not simplie with the fornicatours of this worlde or with the couetous or with extorsioners or with idolatours for then must you goe out of the world But now haue I written to you that you shoulde not bee companions with such If anie man that is called a brother be a Whoore-master or couetous or an idolater or a railer or a drunkard or an extorter eate not with such an one To eate with a man is familiaritie that may be forborne without contempt of Christian Charitie or dutie and that the Apostle willeth them to refraine teaching the Thessalonians to what end and in what sort he would haue it doone If any man obay not our sayings note him by a letter and haue no companie with him that he may be ashamed yet count him not as an enimie but admonish him as a brother When as yet there were no Christian magistates to keepe men by feare from offending S. Paul chargeth the Christians to shew their zeale in shunning the companie of vnruly persons at meate and other familiar meetinges thereby the rather to make them ashamed and to reduce them to Christian and comly behauiour Which precept was general for all disorders We commaund you brethren in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ that you withdraw your selues frō euery brother that walketh inordinately not after the institution which you receiued of vs. Phi. For smaller offences this might be but for heresie S. Paul saith A man that is an hertike after the first and second admonition auoide And so doth S. Iohn If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine receiue him not into your house nor say God saue you vnto him If we may not so much as salute them doe you thinke we may serue them or obey them Theo Were you in debt to an heretike would you not pay him his own because you must not salute him Phi. Debt is dew whether he be Turke Infidel or heretike therefore reason he haue his owne but I must not do that which I neede not Theo. And whether thinke you the truer debt that which groweth by our act and consent or that which is imposed vppon vs by the will and commaundement of God As when S. Paul saith Owe nothing to any man but giue to all men their due Do you not think this as good debt as if it were in coyne Phi. If it be their due Theo. We owe it not if it be not due but if it be must we not render that which is due to all men be they Turks infidels and heretikes Phi. To heretiks nothing is due Theo. Doth not the seruant owe faithful diligence to his master notwithstanding his master be an infidel or an heretik Phi. If the master become an heretik the seruant is ipso facto made free Theo. By whose law Gods or mans Phi. By the ciuill lawes of auncient Emperours Theo. But before those lawes were made by Princes might seruants by Gods law refuse their masters for idolatry or heresie Phi. For idolatrie he might not whatsoeuer for heresie The. If God wil haue christiā seruāts obediēt subiect to their masters in al things to please thē though they be infidels enimies to the faith why not likewise to them that are deceiued in some points of faith The like we aske of man and wife Might the husband forsake his wife or the woman her husband for these causes Phi. For infidelitie they might Theo. And what for heresie Ph. The case is not ruled Theo. Yeas that it is Our Sauiour forbiddeth all men to put awaie their wiues except it bee for adulterie Now adulterie is not heresie And this was Pope Caelestinus his errour which Innocentius the 3. cōdemneth Therfore the case is ruled both by Gods Law and by your own Decretals Phi. They may not bee diuorced Theo. Then must she continue still his wife and is by Gods lawe bounde to bee subiect vnto him and to loue him though he be an heretike or an infidel And so are the children bound to cherish honor and obey their Parentes by the Lawe of God notwithstanding they be Ethnikes or aliens from the faith And therefore these prohibitions Eate not with them keepe them not companie salute them not discharge not seruants children nor wiues for yeelding that duetie to their masters parentes and husbandes which God hath commaunded but cut off onely that familiar and friendly greeting saluting conuersing which amongest brethren is requisite but to wicked and vngodly persons may without sinne be denied Phi. What then is your answere Theo. S. Paul forbiddeth voluntarie companie not necessarie duetie S. Iohn those familar and friendly salutations which argue good liking and fauour to the parties and may bee forborne not that publike subiection to Magistrats which God hath inioyned vs whether we will or no. Phi. Ought we to flatter Princes if they be heretik◠Theo. We may flatter no man in that which is euill yet must we giue euill mē that which God hath allowed them The places which you bring barre no kinde of duetie prescribed by the law of God neither of seruauntes to their masters nor of children to their parentes nor of wiues to their husbandes though their masters parentes and husbands be heretikes much lesse doe they prohibite submission to Princes which God exacteth before these domestical duties and commaundeth all men Apostles and Bishops not excepted to giue feare honour subiection and tribute to Princes as their due when Princes as yet were pernicious idolaters and barbarous persecutors of the faith faithfull And who that hath any regard of trueth will preferre your crooked shapelesse consequēts before the manifest doctrine of Christ and his Apostles Giue to Caesar the things that be Caesars You must bee subiect whosoeuer resisteth power resisteth the ordinance of God Honour the king and submit your selues whether it be to the king as the chiefe excelling or vnto the Gouernors as sent by him For so is the wil of God These be flat plaine precepts which you can not ouerthrow but with an euident direct and speciall release The directions which the Apostles gaue to shame the disordered
neither you nor I be fit iudges wee must leaue that to the sonne of God howbeit I see no cause but the Pope is in farre more daunger before God for his impious abusing the keyes to warrant periurie sedition murder and treason against Magistrates than any Prince can bee for the necessarie defending of his person and Realme against such violence The keyes are to bee feared if they be rightly vsed but if you wrenche them to serue your rages you bind your selues not others whom your vngodly dealings can not hurt Your owne Lawe sayth Apud deum eius ecclesiam neminem grauare potest iniqua sententia With God his Church an vniust sentence can burden no man rash iudgement saith S. Augustine hurteth him that iudgeth rashly Phi. About 13. hundered yeres agoe Babylas Bishop of Antioch excommunicated the only Christian King or Emperour that then was as some count Numerius as others Philippe for executing a Prince that was put to him for an hostage Whereupon as euill Kings sometimes doe he martyred his Bishoppe whom S. Chrysostome others reckon for the most famous martyr of that time because he gaue by his constancie and courage is God a notable example to all Bishops of their behauiour towardes their Princes and how they ought to vse the Ecclesiasticall rodde of correction towardes them whatsoeuer befall to their persons for the same After the said Prince had murthered his owne Pastor then holie Pope Fabian for that he was the general sheepheard of Christendome or as some thinke Fabian the successour of Babylas pursued the said Emperour by like excommunication and other meanes till at length hee brought him to order and repentance Afterward Saint Ambrose Bishop of Millan excommunicated the elder Theodosius the Emperour put him to publike penance among the rest of the people commaunded him to put off his Kingly robes to leaue his Emperiall throne in the Chauncel and to keepe his place among the Laitte and prescribed him after eight monethes penance to make a temporall Law for prouiso against the occasions of such crimes as the saide Emperour had committed and for which he was excommunicated This was an other world than we now are in marueilous courage and zeale in Bishops for Gods cause much humilitie and obedience in Princes Then was there no flatterer so shamefull nor heretique on earth so impudent as to make the temporal King aboue all correction of Gods Church and their owne Pastours nothing being more common in the histories of all ages than that Princes haue receiued discipline As when Anastasius the Emperour was excommunicated by Symmachus Lotharius and Micheal Emperours by Nicolas the first and particular Princes by their prouinciall Bishops as we see in the records of all Nations Therefore we will stand only vpon more famous and auncient examples Innocentius the first excommunicated Archadius the Emperour and his wife Queene Eudoxia for that they disobayed and persecuted their Bishoppe S. Chrysostome We will report the iudiciall sentence briefly because it is much to the purpose and full of Maiestie O Emperour said Pope Innocentius well neare 1200 yeres agoe the blood of my brother Iohn Chrysostome crieth to God against thee thou hast cast out of his chaire the great Doctor of the world and in him by thy wiues that delicate Dalida persuasion hast persecuted Christ. Therfore I though a poore sinful soule to whom the throne of the great Apostle Saint Peter is committed doe excommunicate thee and her and do separate you both from the holy Sacraments commaunding that no Priest nor Bishop vnder paine of depriuation after this my sentence come to their knowledge giue or minister the said Sacraments vnto you Theo. Fairely shot but quite besides the marke Phi. Why so Theo. Our question is whether Prelates may depriue Princes of their Crownes and you proue Bishops may deny them the word and Sacraments if the cause so require Phi. Is not that to the purpose Theo. Not a whit You saw we confessed so much before without vrging What need you then spend time to proue it Phi. If you graunt that the rest will soone follow Theo. We did and doe graunt that with heretikes Apostataes be they princes or priuate men no Christian Pastor or people may communicate Phi. Wee desire no more Theo. Inferre then Phi. Ergo no Christian pastour nor people may obay them Theo. This consequent hath beene often framed and often denied and now you beginne with a long discourse to proue the antecedent Phi. The sequele is sure If we may not communicate with them wee may not obay them Theo. What els haue we doone all this while but refell that sequele We may not communicate likewise with Idolaters and Infidels May we therefore not obay them Phi. With Idolaters and Infidels we may not communicate in spirituall and heauenly things but in temporal and earthly we may and for that cause must obay them if they beare the sword Theo. We say the like for Apostataes and heretikes We may not communicate with them in diuine things but in terrene things we may and therefore we must obay them if they beare the sword Phi. Heretikes be excommunicated and so be not Infidels Theo. Infidels be without the Church of their owne accord and heretikes be put out this is all the difference betwixt them Againe your own Law saith and true it is that excommunication doth not hinder any priuate vtilitie necessitie or duty how much lesse doth it barre the publike vtilitie necessitie and dutie that subiects owe their Souereignes But these reasons were euen now opposed against you and you retired from the Scriptures to the vse and practise of of Christs Church promising as we tooke you to bring vs not the selfe same weake and lame sequele which we refuted before but some plaine and apparant example where the Church of Christ deposed Princes from their seats and discharged the subiects from their alleageance This if you doe we be readie to giue you the hearing If you runne bragging and vaunting of an other match we knowe your mishap a rotten tree will neuer yeeld sounde tymber you would if you could and because you do not wee conclude you can not Phi. Yet answere that we bring and of the sequele we will talke farther anon Theo. That I will what bring you Phi. Numerius or Philip it skilleth not whether Theodosius Arcadius Anastasius Lotharius Michael the yongest of them 700 yeres olde though they were great and mightie Princes and Emperours yet were they excommunicated by Bishops Theo. Your owne conclusion you haue suspended till anon in the mean season heare ours and that out of your owne words These Princes were excommunicated as you say but they were also serued honoured and obayed by all their Christian subiects Bishops and others as wee say and you can not denie it ergo we may serue honour and obey Princes notwithstanding they bee
much lesse so great a Prince Truly I prepared to depart for so Montanus your messenger knoweth that vpon the receit of your letters if your grace vouchsafed but to write I might presently bee gone with my readines to obay preuent your rescript For I am not so madde as to thinke I may contradict such preceptes With what forehead then can they say I obaied not powers Neuer recken this man for a resistant that so many wayes protesteth and confirmeth his obedience to Princes learne you rather to follow his submission and draw him not against his own both deeds and wordes to be of your faction Phi. The people of Alexandria were twise or thrise in an vprore about him first vnder Constantius and after vnder Valens Theo. The people of Alexandria were very tumultuous and raised many horrible garboyles both in the Church and common wealth Socrates saith of them Populus Alexandrinus prae alijs populis seditionibus delectatur si quando occasionem seditionis fuerit nactus ad intolerabilia mala prorumpit nec sine sanguine sedatur The people of Alexandria delight in sedition more than other Cities and if at any time they catch any occasion to make a tumult they runne headlong to foule outrages and neuer end but with blood The selfe same report Euagrius giueth of them The people are soone stirred and easilie incited to a tumult most of all others they of Alexandria who by reason of their great number those obscure persons and of all sortes are insolent rash bold and in furie will venter on any thing Lamentable examples whereof you may reade in the stories of the church describing the horrible fights and slaughters that were between the Iewes Gentiles and Christians of that Citie as wel against the trueth as with it And therefore in these populous and tumultuous Cities if you did shew some insurrections of the people for their pastors it would doe you no great good Men haue raised tumults in al ages and that doth iustifie rebellion in you no more than Cains sword dipt in his brothers bloud at the first beginning of the world and neuer since drie doth warrant theeues to take mens liues by the high waies side yea rather lesse for they kill to supplie their needes you to reuenge your grifes they vnhorse priuate men you vnthrowe Princes they rifle howses you spoile kingdomes they fly vpon the fact you stand to the defence of it before the whole world Farre from this affection were S. Basil and S. Ambrose as euen now wee saw and Athanasius as farre if you dare trust him on his oth if not you shall shift him neerer by his acts When he saw the people of his Church grudge at the Emperours precept to remoue him from his seat and readie to take weapon in hand hee departed the citie Under Valens the people of that citie likewise resisted and would not suffer any violence to be offered Athanasius by the Captaines vntill the Emperours pleasure were precisely knowen touching Athanasius In so much that the multitude flocking together and a great hurlie burlie rising in the Citie a sedition was feared When the people some daies after was appeased Athanasius by night closely conueigheth himselfe out of the Citie Others saie that foreseeing the rashnes of the multitude and fearing least he should seeme to be the author of that euill which might ensue he hid him selfe all that time in his fathers tumbe Thus when hee might haue beene defended by the people hee would not and because they suffered him not to depart from them by day hee frale from them by night and left his Bishopricke to be disposed by the prince The like did Chrysostome in his troubles For when the people knew of his deposition they brake out into an vprore and would not suffer those that had it in charge from the Emperour to carrie him into banishment Chrysostom fearing least any other crime should bee fastned on him either that he did not obay the Emperour or that he stirred the people to sedition the third day after his depriuation priuilie leaueth his Church and yeeldeth himselfe to be caried into exile So that by S. Chrysostomes iudgement it is first a fault in a Bishop not to obay the Prince next it is an other fault to stirre the people to sedition be the cause neuer so good as Chrysostomes was not badde Phi. Likewise against Valens the Arrian Emperour Petrus successour to Athanasius and brother to S. Basil did seeke to the Pope of Rome for succour as al other afflicted Bishoppes and Catholikes euer did Theo. The Bishop of Rome in those daies was neither so mightie that he could nor wicked that he would assist subiects with armes against their Soueraignes Peter Bishop of Alexandria brought letters from Damasus Bishop of Rome allowing his election and Confirming the same the people vpon that spying their time displaced Lucius an Arrian and receiued Peter their right Bishoppe Phi. And what was this but resistance to the Prince Theo. Resist they might and did but not with armes Phi. Which way then Theo. By refusing his communion disobeying his iurisdiction and withdrawing their duties from him yeelding the same to Peter as to their lawful and true Bishop Phi. Socrates sayth the people taking courage expelled Lucius and set Peter in his place Theo. They might driue him away and make him forsake the Citie though not with armes But whatsoeuer the people did against Lucius in their heate hauing as I noted before vnto you out of the same writer a very sharp and seditious humour and being miserably handled by Lucius as scourged with whippes their flesh torne with hookes and diuersly tormented with fire vnto death the letters of Damasus incited them to no such thing but onely approued the election of Peter Phi. But Peter it shoulde seeme allowed the people in their enterprise for by their tumult he recouered his Bishopricke Theo. You must not imagine rebellions where none are written The people draue Lucius from the See being an intruder an heretike and a murderer other tumult the Storie doth not mention Phi. The Prince had placed Lucius there Theo. The election of Bishops in these dayes belonged to the people and not to the Prince and though Valens by plaine force placed him there yet might the people lawfully reiect him as no Bishoppe and cleaue to Peter their right Pastor Phi. Might they reiect him with armes Theo. I said not so Phi. But so they did Theo. That must you proue we find no such thing in the Storie neither of Socrates nor Sozomene Phi. Socrates sayth they expelled him Theo. But not with armes Phi. Do you thinke hee would yeeld without force Theo. Do you thinke any great force needed for a whole Citie to expell one man But why come you with thoughts when you should bring vs proofes That hee was expelled wee graunt but whether
I leaue to the iudgement of the christian Reader Your catalogue of the Germane Emperours that insueth As of Frederike the first Frederike the second Otho the fift Lewes the thirde Lewes the fourth and Henrie the thirde or as some call him the fourth maketh shew to the simple but doth you no good The eldest of these that were offered depriuation by the Pope is Henrie the fourth whom Gregorie the seuenth a thowsand threescore and six yeares after Christ prouoked with that iniurie but to his owne vtter ouerthrow You recken Lewes the thirde and Lewes the fourth for Princes depriued of their Empires by the Bishoppe of Rome but reason were you did first tell vs whom you meane and how you proue it Marianus Scotus and they that follow him make Lewes the third to be Lodouicus Balbus to whom Pope Iohn fled annointed him king of the Romanes when the Nobles of Rome inclined rather to Charles the thirde and gaue him possession of the citie who was after annointed by Pope Iohn at his returne Lodouike the thirde liuing skant two yeares after his coronation Martinus Polonus numbreth him for Lewes the third that was next after Arnulphus but whether it were Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus or an other of that name the sonne of Boso he doth not determine onely he saith Berengarius caught him at Verona and recouered the Empire which Blondus and Marianus report of Lodouike the sonne of Boso and not of Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus as Platina doth In this vncertaintie of your Stories you might haue done wel to haue distinguished the person pointed out your author you now driue vs to suspect that you go about to haue them deposed that were neuer crowned Of Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus Martinus saith Hee succeeded his father sed ad coronam Imperij non peruenit but hee neuer was crowned Emperour And Platina confesseth the same In the place of Arnulphus we read that Lodouike was made Emperour quem tamen nusquam habuisse imperij Coronam accepimus of whom we do not finde that euer hee had the Crowne of the Empire If hee neuer receiued the Crowne how could hee bee deposed from the Crowne Phi. Perhappes the Pope kept him from it Theo. Perhappes you can not tell but thinke you that Princes will loose their Crownes for your perhappes Phi. He neuer had it Theo. But had he any wrong to bee kept from it Phi. Howe thinke you of that Theo. Your proofes bee verie mightie that must depende on my thoughtes Phi. Wee brought in these instances as it were by the way to let you see what stoare of examples wee had Theo. Then take them out of the way for they do but hinder your cause When Charles the thirde otherwise called Carolus Crassus grewe both sicke and lunatike the Nobles of Germanie cleane forsooke him and choose Arnulphus which as some say was the sonne of Charlemaine but as Blondus affirmeth was obscurissimo natus loco a man very basely borne and not of Charles line by reason whereof the kingdomes which before were subiect to Charles now as destitute of a right heire beganne to fall in sunder on euerie side to choose kinges of themselues Then Fraunce tooke Charles the childe cognamed Simple and when his simplicitie displeased them they set Otho the sonne of Robert Duke of Saxonie in his place At the same time the people of Italy meaning to haue a king of their own could not agree on the matter but chose some Berengarius and others Guido and so had two kinges in Italy both calling and bearing them-selues as Emperours Besides these defections Arnulphus had long and sharpe warres with Rodolph that proclaimed him-selfe king of Prouince and with the Nortmanes that ranged in many partes of Fraunce and Germanie So that the Pope did not depose Lewes the thirde as you would insinuate but Italie seeing the line of Charles to bee expired thought to make an Emperour of their owne bowels and to keepe off straungers that before had the rule ouer them and so they did for threescore yeares till barbarous inuasions and domesticall seditions and disorders made them glad to send to Otho the great and to receiue him for their Emperor and to yeelde to a forme of electing to the Empire by certaine Bishops and Princes of Germanie which hath indured vntil this present This your own Stories abundantly confirme saue that some write of Arnulphus that he marched with his armie through the middest of Italy and tooke Rome and caused him-selfe to bee crowned Emperour as Regino sayth who then liued by Formosus the Bishoppe of Rome which Blondus doth skant beleeue Howsoeuer that were they all agree that Berengarius and Guido were chosen kinges of Italie when Arnulphus was first aduaunced to Charles his place Blondus saieth Arnulpho apud Francos in Imperatorem creato Romani caeteri Itali nullum ab imperatore nouo dissidijs Regni Franciae implicito auxilium aduersus rebelles Longobardos affuturum intelligentes Berengarium Foronâ—liensem Ducem Roma oriundum crearunt Imperatorem Arnulphus being chosen Emperour by the Germanes the Romanes and Italians perceiuing they might looke for no helpe against the rebellious Lombards from that new Emperor hauing his hands ful of the dissentioÌ„s of his own kingdom created Berengarius the duke of Frioli a Romane their emperor Neither yet did they so wel agree in that electioÌ„ but that other chose Guido the Duke of Spoletum to be king of Italie Otho Frisingensis maketh the same report Charles the next yeare after hee was deposed died From that time to Otho wee finde the regiment at Rome verie confused For after the death of Charles which raigned sixe yeares and ledde a priuate life the seuenth yeare the Empire was rent in many partes euery Prouince desirous to haue a seuerall king onely Arnolfus had the greatest share Therefore the Italians make themselues two kinges Berengarius Duke of Friault and Guido Duke of Spoletum Of the which Berengarius chased out of his couÌ„try by Guido â—led for succour to Arnolfus You can not proue hence that Arnulphus or Lewes his sonne were depriued by the Pope but only that the Romanes made an other defection from the Empire who after they had once tasted the sweetnesse that came by cutting the empire in peeces for where before they were suppliaÌ„ts subiects now by the larges of Pipine they were Lords of halfe Italie by their willes could neuer haue rested And though the Germanes and Italians differ in their reckonings the Germanes accounting Berengarius and those that succeeded him vntil Otho the great for vsurpers and contrary-wise the Italians accepting them for their naturall and true Emperours Yet that is no cause for you to auouch that the Pope deposed any of them For put the case either way that the Germanes were lawfully excluded as hauing no right or wrongfully debarred of their
right you may conclude hence a iust allegation or a ciuill sedition in the Romanes but no depriuation of Princes by the Pope If by Lewes the thirde you meane Lewes the sonne of Boso for him you may meane and by your indistinct speaking you driue vs to ghesse at your meaning he with violence gate some dominion in Italie putting Berengarius to the worst and by negligence lost not onely that hee gate but his eyes also which hee might haue saued with staying at home mary the doers of it were Berengarius his enimie and the citizens of Verona which betraied him mention of the Pope there is none except you thinke it vnfitte for his holinesse that anie treason shoulde bee wrought without him for that his◠See is so well practised in them Of this Lewes Otho sayth In the yeare of our Lord 905. Lodouike the sonne of Boso getting the Empire expelled Berengarius and hauing the whole kingdome of Italie at his becke dismissing his armie went to Verona with a small traine where being betrayed by the citizens that sent for Berengarius from the place where hee was in exile hee was caught and his eyes pulled out And after that Berengarius helde the kingdom of Italie togither with the Romane Empire So haue wee three Lodouikes ech of them in sundrie writers surnamed Lewes the thirde and not one of them deposed by the Bishop of Rome Henrie the fourth was the first that was troubled with the Popes presumption to depose Princes but hee was so farre from taking it that hee put the Pope besides his cushinne and had him deposed from his triple Crowne not onelie by force but also by iudgement and sentence as good or better than that which the Pope pronounced against him Respect whether you will the cause or the manner of their proceeding eche against other Phi. You crake of this Emperour For that in fine by armes hee droue the saide Pope out of his Sea and placed an Antipape that is to say one so opposite to Christes Vicar as Antichrist shall bee against Christ which by armes and patronage of this wicked Emperour vsurped and occupied the Apostolike throne against the true Pope Gregorie the seuenth Theo. We crake not of Princes as you doe of Popes neither do we defend them in open wickednes as you doe Popes in their pestilent disorders and outrages only we say neither your holy father with his proude claime nor you with your smoothe tongues may take from Princes their Crownes without warrant from God of whome they haue their power and by whome they are exalted to their Royall dignitie And therefore if you will play the proctour for Pope Hildebrande in that attempt of his to depriue Henry the fourth leaue wastful woords and spiteful speach and go to the matter Scoffes and taunts are soone cast and recast without any paynes or praise Phi. Because this good and notable Pope was not able in fine to resist the Emperours forces the which Emperour as all the histories of that tyme recorde was a most wicked sacrilegious simoniacal and hereticall person the aduersaries of Gods Church doe triumph as the Libeller here doth ouer the blessed man as Herode might haue done ouer Iohn Baptist whose admonition was taken in so euill grè that it cost him his life as also the executing of the Churches sentence which is Gods hath doone to many a Prophet and Bishop in the worlde Theo. If to call Gregorie the seuenth Hildebrand which was his proper name and whereof neither hee nor you shoulde in reason bee ashamed be a note of rebellious heretiques as you terme them what is it for you to call a Prince on whom by Gods Lawe you are forbidden to rayle a most wicked sacrilegious simoniacall and hereticall person What is it to say that al the stories of that time record the same and to produce none As for Iohn Baptise you may vse his name when you follow his workes Herode was an incestuous Tyrant yet did not Iohn Baptist take the scepter from him nor arme his subiects against him but warned him of the breach of Gods Lawe which hee wilfully committed and the punishment which would ensue at Gods handes farther practices against Herode Iohn Baptist had none and therefore you might as well haue yoked Belial with Christ as Hildebrand with Iohn Baptist. But you must be suffered when other things faile you to haue glorious words which is a right Herodian affection Phi. By the euent of things whosoeuer measureth the right of cause will make a good religion and a good defence of the execution of iustice For so most tyrants might bee iustified for a tyme against all the Saintes of God This Gregorie say they was in fine banished by the Emperour And so was Saint Chrysostome by Arcadius and Eudoxia and dyed in banishment as Gregorie the seuenth did yet they were but homely Christians that woulde iustifie the Emperours and condemne S. Chrysostome Theo. Wee measure not the right of causes neither by the sequele nor successe of thinges for then the Saintes of GOD from the first beginning of the worlde shoulde haue had an euill cause since their successe hath alwayes beene to loose their liues for bearing witnes vnto the trueth Wee make it no reason that Hildebrandes cause was euill because in the ende hee was banished Wee all this while haue stoode with you on this point that neither Hildebrand nor any other Pope had or hath right to depose Princes Your commendation of Hildebrand and accusation of Henry the fourth if both were true are litle to this purpose vnlesse you will reason thus the Pope was a good man and the Prince an euill Ergo the Pope might depose the Prince which were a very rediculous conclusion Phi. The Popes right to depose Princes wee haue prooued before Theo. Not yet that wee see Your authorities came very short of it your examples shorter Some shiftes and sophismes you haue here and there offered vs but so weake that children woulde hardly bee deceiued by them Those you thought being destitute of other helpes to strengthen with examples and hauing searched all the corners you coulde for a thousande yeeres after Christ you finde not one till you come to Gregorie the seuenth who did attempt it but coulde not effect it and lost his Popedome for enterprising it And here you slip from the right of the cause to the praise of the Person which is vtterly impertinent to this purpose For what trowe you is euery thing good that good men doe May you not so commende any vice What sinne is there but some good man otherwise hath fallen into If to measure thinges by their euents bee no sure way to iudge rightly of them what is it to alleage no better grounde for the Deposition of Princes than the bolde attempt of the Bishoppe of Rome Were the Person commended not by the assentation of his
adherents but by the confession of his aduersaries that proueth not his fact to bee good or his enterprise lawfull We must balance thinges by the Lawes of God and not by the fansies and affections of men and yet touching the Person if the syncerest of your own side may bee trusted I see no such cause to commend him Phi. This Pope whome they specially hate because as it may be thought he was the first man that authentically condemned the Berengarians heresie and in open disputation refuted it though certaine of the said Emperours flatterers and enemies of the Sea Apostolike as the fashion of our heretiques is at this day wrote slaunderous libels against him yet was hee a very notable good man and learned and did suffer whatsoeuer hee did suffer for meere iustice in that hee did godly honorably and by the dutie of his Pastorship whatsoeuer hee did against the said Emperour whereof we could alleage all the best writers of those dayes or neere that tyme but that wee should be tedious Theo. Whatsoeuer Berengarius heresie was the recantation which your holy Father with his learned aduise prescribed him is a very wicked and palpable error If Hildebrand were the author of that condemnation we enuie not his praise A lewder or grosser follie was neuer vttered with tongue No maruaile to see you so forward in affirming that Gregorie the 7. was a very notable good man and learned and did suffer whatsoeuer he did suffer for meere iustice and did Godly and honourablie and by the dewtie of his Pastorship whatsoeuer hee did against the Emperour he was the first Pope that euer serued or fitted your rebelling humour Your case and his are all one and therefore vnlesse you should praise him you must dispraise your owne doings which you will not you be so farre entered into these Italian policies and perceiue them to bee so profitable for your Rhemish monarchie But Sirs if you were asked vnder benedicite whether S. Peter did better in submitting him selfe to Nero and charging al others to do the like or Pope Hildebrand in taking the crown from Henry the fourth and dischargeing his subiects which would you preferre The mild and Christian submission of Peter suffering death at Neroes hands or the disdainful and arrogant stomacke of Gregorie the seuenth making the Emperour with his Queene and young Prince in extreme frost and snowe waite his leisure three dayes barefoted and in woollen at the gates of Canusium whiles himselfe was warme in a Ladies chamber and notwithstanding this rare example of humilitie in a Prince practising a generall reuolt of his Nobles and people from him and causing an other to be chosen in his place and licencing his owne subiects seruants and sonnes to beare armes against him and filling the Christian world with vnnaturall and parricidial warres and bloudshed I knowe you dare not in plaine termes disgrace Sainct Peter but in deedes euident to the eyes of all men you take part with Pope Hildebrand against Sainct Peter extolling and praising him for a very notable good Pope that first gaue this detestable and damnable aduenture He did suffer you say whatsoeuer he did suffer for meere Iustice. It was madde meere Iustice that the Church of Christ for a thousand yeres would not bee so much as acquainted with and a madder imagination of yours that all that refused to bee partakers of Hildebrands wickednesse were flatterers to the Emperour and enimies to the See Apostolike farre better cause haue wee to say that they which conspired with the Pope against their Prince vppon so great submission as Christendome hath not seene the like were DESPISERS OF GOVERNMENT RESISTERS OF POWER and consequently disobeiers of Christ and woorse than hierlings of Antichrist And if you may shake them off that liued in the same age and wrate of things they sawe with their eyes and heard with their eares who smoothed not the vices of men but defended the ordinance of GOD What should bind vs to regard the corrupt and partiall iudgementes of those that came some hundreds after and knew no more of the certaintie of those actions than we do at this instant and were withall so wedded to the Sea of Rome that in respect thereof they did resist as you doe now both the power of man and the trueth of God Phi. We haue for Gregorie the seuenth the graue testimonie of Baptista Fulgosius a noble and learned man that was Duke of Genua aboue an hundred yeeres past which wee shall not let to set downe as wee find it in the Latine Constantissimus habitus est Gregorius septimus Pontifex qui quòd Henricum tertium Imperatorem propter aperta nimis Symoniae crimina pro Pastorali officio reprehendebat grauibus ab eo iniurijs affectus est Itaque iniuriarum magnitudine compulsus Henricum Gregorius vt haereticum Imperij honore priuauit Cum autem Henricus solut ecclesiastica censura non emendatione vitae sed armis quaereret alium creari Pontificem enixus capta vrbe obsidere Gregorium caepit Quae mala cum Gregorius pateretur nunquā tamen a iusto proposito dimoueri potuit That is Gregorie the seuenth was notable for his constancie who for that according to his Pastorall charge hee had admonished Henrie the third Emperour to leaue his knowen impietie of Symonie was by manifold intolerable iniuries vexed by the same Emperour and by the greatnes of his wickednes was compelled to depriue him as an heretique of his Imperiall dignitie But Henry seeking not by amendment of his life but by armes to bee absolued from the censure hee went about to set vp a newe Pope and beseeged the Citie of Rome and brought the Pope into great distresse In all which miseries Gregorie coulde neuer bee remoued from his iust purpose So hee writeth of the parties both And of the horrible crimes for which the Emperour was most iustly in the sight of all good men deposed Theo. Truth dependeth not vpon nobilitie but sinceritie Noble men haue their affections and ouersightes in writing as well as others Baptista Fulgosius liued foure hundreth yeeres after Gregorie the seuenth and had no better intelligence of the cause than wee haue at this day In his banishment hee collected certaine examples out of such bookes as came to his handes to spend the tyme ease his miserie but hee tooke not vppon him to iudge between your stories which were credible and which not All that hee sayth of Gregorie the seuenth is Constantissimus habitus est he was counted very constant could neuer be remoued from the purpose which he thought to be iust the rest is a report of the fact no debating of the cause And had this exiled Person giuen greater commendation to Gregorie than hee doeth euery Noble mans fansie that is or hath beene these fiue hundreth yeeres in Christendome must not appoint what power the Pope shal
haue ouer Princes And if Nobilitie might preiudice trueth as in deede it can not why should the iudgement of Baptista Fulgosius in this case bee preferred before a thousand others of greater Nobilitie that haue taken part with their Princes against the Pope Meaner states than Princes will not lose their liberties for the Duke of Genua and therefore if you seeke for the right of the cause it must be tried neither by Dukes Popes nor Princes The word of God doeth not goe by the verdicts of men If you stand not on that but on the vices of Henrie and vertues of Gregorie Your Italian Duke is too yong to pronounce exactly what they were that died some hundreds before he was borne Phi. Trithemius reporteth in briefe thus of the wickednes of this Emperour Episcopatus Constantiensem c. He sold the Bishopriks of Constance Bamburgh Mentz and diuers others for money those of Ausbourg Straisbourgh for a sword that of Munster for Sodomie and the Abbacie of Fuld for adulterie Heauen and earth witnes and crie out on these and for the same abhominations he standeth excommunicated and depriued and therfore hath no power nor iust title to raigne ouer vs Catholikes Theo. This is the next way to build the Tower of Babel to descend from a Duke to an Abbat from one that liued fiueskore yeeres agoe to one that died not much more than threeskore yeeres since and to thinke by men of your own faction that were aliue in this our age to make proofe of thinges that were done fiue hundreth yeeres before Trithemius an Abbate of late dayes hath no credite in this case you must shewe vs some elder writer and nearer the time wherein these things were done or else wee shall passe it ouer as a peeuish and pestilent slaunder Phi. Wee haue elder if you list to beleeue them but you will discredite them as you doe Trithemius Theo. I discredite not Trithemius but leâ—ue him his due commendation onely I say there is no reason that a man of your side and our age shoulde bee the first and sole deponent of matters many hundreth yeeres elder than himselfe Phi. Wee haue long before him that did witnesse the same Theo. Produce them Phi. Dodechinus who liued within an hundreth yeeres of that time hath the same report woorde for woorde of Henry the fourth that Trithemius hath Theo. Wee find that repeated by Dodechinus but not of his owne knowledge or iudgement Valtrame Bishop of Megburg wrate a sober and seemely letter to Countie Lodouike to perswade him to submit himselfe to the king and not to resist the powers which God had ordayned Lodouike puffed with pride and filled with disdaine wrate backe to Valtrame a furious and spiteful libell both against the Bishoppe and the king wherein these thinges are obiected to the Prince without farther triall or testimonie Both their letters Abbate Dodechine inserteth in his storie So that the first author of this tale was Lodouike in fauour of himselfe disfaming the Prince which hee sought to subuert and what credite that can haue in the eares of indifferent men let the wise consider Where hee sayth the Emperour sold the Bishopriks of Ratisbon Ausbourg and Straisbourgh for a sword his malice was so great that he could not dissemble his follie For hee that tooke but a swoorde for three Bishoprikes was no great Symonist your holy father would haue made a better bargaine for him selfe if hee had had the sale of them Sure swordes were very deare or Bishoprikes very good cheape when the Prince let goe three Bishoprikes for a sword Such toyes you seeke to deface Princes and so quickly you giue credite to him that wil say any thing against them How Henry the fourth behaued himselfe in giuing the Abbaie of Fulde and Bishopricke of Mounster I know not neither doe I find it credibly reported in any good writer The rebellious heart and conuicious mouth of Fredericke first raised this vncleane suspition vpon the Emperour and you now are as earnest to proclaime your Abbasses for Whores and your Bishops for Sodomites rather than you wil distrust the bare accusation of a Malcontent against his Prince you bee so linked with him in cause and condition But for our partes as wee detest the vices so wee beleeue not euerie crime that an enimie and a rebell in excuse of himselfe list to vpbraide his Prince with wee require some surer proofe for so hainous a crimination as this is before wee trust the vnbridled tongue of a seditious subiect against his Soueraigne Marianus Scotus and Lambertus Scafnaburgensis which liued both of them at the same time with Henry the fourth and were to flatterers of his but fautours of Hildebrand and of the Saxones that rebelled against him neuer charged him with those enormities Dodechinus him selfe when he commeth to the final censure of Henries faults and offences omitteth these as vnlikely or at least as vnproued and saith He sold all spiritual liuings and was inobedient to the Sea Apostolike by setting Wigbert in Gregories place by exceeding the order of Christianitie towarde his lawfull wife and by neglecting the sentence of the Apostolike See These bee the crimes for the which Dodechinus saith he was iustly cast out of the Church And Marianus saith he was excommunicated maximè propter Symoniam chiefly for Symonie not for Sodomitrie He that wrate the life of Henry the fourth presently vpon his death a modest auncient and Christian reporter of such things as hapned vnto that Emperour saith of the Saxons and others that sought to palliate their ciuile sedition with a faire shew Confictis conscriptisque super eo criminibus quae pessima immundissima potuit odium liuor excogitare quae mihi scribenti tibique legenti nauseam parerent si ea ponerem vera falsis miscentes apud Romanum Pontificem Gregorium septimum eum deferebant Faining and articulating crimes against him the worst and most vncleanest that hatred and enuie could imagine which are lothsome for me to write and thee to reade if I should name them and mingling some trueth amongst their lies they complained of him to Gregorie the seuenth the Bishop of Rome Vrspergensis saith The Saxons making a generall coniuration against the King put vppe against him to the See Apostolike accusationes blasphemas inauditas blasphemous accusations and neuer heard of before These blasphemous and fained accusations you rake vp againe and publish them to the worlde with great sooth vppon the credit of an Abbate that liued in this our age such is your discretion and grauitie that you patrone not onlie the violent and armed rage of rebels against their Prince but euen their vnhonest and lothsome suspitions If we would bring against Gregorie the seuenth not laymen but Bishops not one but many not straungers but his owne Italians Romanes and Cardinals that knewe him and were conuersant with
impugned at one tyme. Phi. Hee impugned Concubinaries and Symonists Theo. So your Cloysterers called such as were maried and preferred by the Prince and for that cause they tooke stitch with the Pope against the Prince and highly commended Hildebrand as the first begynner of ecclesiasticall puritie and libertie But in deede it was but a quarrell sought out by the Pope vnder a faire pretence to tread downe Princes and exalt himselfe He could beare no such sway as he woulde in the Church so long as the Bishops did depend on the Prince and not on the Pope For by their helpe the Prince often tymes not only crossed but depriued the Pope if hee waxed vnruly or ouer lustie This was it that Hildebrande could not digest Lighting therefore on a Prince that was young and somewhat lasciuious and perceiuing the Nobles of his Realme to dislike and disdaine one an other and seeing the Normanes in Italie able to withstande the Emperours force and the Saxons in Germanie willing to cast off the Yoke as they thought of bondage and getting into such fauour with Mathilda a great mightie Ladie of Italie that shee should not bee out of his sight but as a very friend of Gregories sayth Pontificis Lateri comes indiuidua adhaerebat eumque miro colebat affectu shee cleaued to the Popes side as his continuall companion and loued him exceedingly Hildebrande hauing these oportunities gaue the aduenture both to pull all spirituall liuings out of the Princes gift that the Clergie might depend on him and not on their Prince and to shewe him-selfe the censurer and deposer of Kinges and Emperours if they withstoode him And for that cause hee first decreed it to bee Symonie to take any spirituall lyuing at a lay mans handes and in the same Synode did excommunicate as well the giuers as the takers were they Dukes Princes or Kinges which hee knewe the Emperour neither coulde nor woulde endure Not long after hee receiued diuers and sundrie suggestions against the King from the Saxons who sought by armes what they coulde to preuaile against the Prince and when that succeeded not fell to slaundering and accusing their king for answere whereto the Pope summoned the King to appeare at Rome and prefixed him a day to cleare him-selfe of those crimes And when the king neither would loose his right in bestowing his Bishoprickes and Benefices as he sawe cause and as his progenitours before him had doone and refused to come in Person to answere the complaints of rebels against him but sent his Agents to refell their obiections the Pope discouering the malice and pride which till that tyme hee concealed tooke the Princes messengers and cast them in Prison and caused them to bee caried about the Citie as gazing stockes and in his Synode depriued the Emperour both of the communion of the faythfull and of his Crowne and kingdome also and to his dying day would not bee remoued from his purpose Philand These bee your vaine collections which wee regarde not Theo. I looke not you shoulde regarde mine but if your owne writers which haue laboured in this matter finde the report which I make to bee true you may not so lightly neglect them Auentinus a man addicted to your religion not to ours exactly and vprightly weighing the partes and proofes of this cause obserueth the same that I doe and a great deale more Philand Auentinus was too fauourable to the Germanes his Countriemen Theop. Any writer may bee touched in that sort with fauour or affection If you reiect men of the same profession with you because they differ in iudgement from you much more is it lawfull for vs in this contention betweene the Prince and the Pope to refuse such as were altogether inclined and deuoted to the See of Rome If you trust not Auentine because hee was a Germane why should we trust those Monkes and Bishoppes that were ioyned in faction with Hildebrand against the king Philand Will you trust none but your seluee Theoph. You doe not so much as trust your selues wee alleage none but your owne men in this case and you trust them not Philand Wee giue you some cause why wee trust them not Theoph. None but this that you like them not your other exceptions bee very friuolous If some were Germanes and fauoured the Prince others were Italians and flattered the Pope You trust not the one nor wee the other let therefore the sticklers of both sides alone and examine the doers them-selues I hope you will beleeue Gregories woordes and not distrust him as you doe the rest Philand He wil not belie him-selfe Theo. Then touching the causes of Henries excommunication the Pope himselfe maketh this report to the Princes of Germanie Pro hijs illum causis primum videlicet quod ab eorum communione qui pro sacrilegio reatu simoniaca haeresis excommunicati sunt se abstiuere noluit deinde quod pro criminosis actibus paenitentiam non dico suscipere sed nec promittere voluit Synodali iudicio eum excommunicauimus For these causes to witte first for that he would not forbeare their companie which were excommunicated for the sacrilegious and hereticall guylt of Symonie next for that hee was so farre from taking any penance at our handes for his criminall actes that he would promise none we by a Synodal sentence did excommunicate him Here bee the two causes which the Pope pretended for his excommunicatiō and deposition of the prince partaking with Symonists and refusall of iudgement penance at his hands Philand Were not Symonie and obstinacie two great crimes Theoph. Your holy father did call that Symonie which was none Philand The Prince did sell Bishoprickes and Benefices Theoph. So your Monkes affirme but they lie the more The Pope him-selfe you see doeth not charge him with selling Bishoprickes or benefices but with retaining their societie that did Lambertus that lyued in that tyme and wholy fauoured Gregorie confesseth that by many examples the Prince shewed howe much hee detested the corruption and ambition of Prelates and Abbates seeking preferment by money and flatterie When the Abbay of Fulde was voide and the King with his Nobles conferring about the choice of a newe the Abbates and Monkes sayth Lambertus as it had beene at a solemne game began to offer some golden mountains other great booties out of the lands of the Abbay and some more seruices to the common-wealth than accustomed and in offering they kept neither meane nor modestie horum impudentiam rex vehementissimé vt dignum erat detestatus the king most vehemently detesting their impudencie as it became him when hee was importuned with their prayers and offers on the suddaine ledde with a diuine spirite as men thought called one Ruzelin a Monke that stoode before him which came to the court about the busines of his house at the commaundement of the Abbate and neuer dreampt of any
such thing and putting the Pastorall staffe in his handes first himselfe named him Abbate and prayed the rest both souldiers and Monkes to consent to his election Likewise when the Abbate of Loressan was dead and the Monkes and souldiers hee meaneth the Clergie and the people of the place had elected the Prior with one accord to succeede and came to the Court for the kings consent neither was it thought that the king woulde dissent for that the Prior was in some grace and fauour with the king by reason of his diligent seruice afore that tyme the king caught an other of the Monkes of the same house by the hand which came with the rest of his brethren thinking on no such thing and drewe him into the midst of the companie amazed at the matter and to the great admiration of all men gaue him the Pastorall staffe This report the very mislikers of Henry the fourth doe giue him touching his hatred and detestation of Symonie and his Princely disposition to make free choice of Bishoppes and Abbattes If some tymes hee were ledde with affection and fansie I knowe neither Pope people nor Prince that may not bee often affected intreated and deceiued in their gyftes and elections bee they neuer so wise and otherwise neuer so syncere But your Monkes as Marianus Dodechinus and others did the Prince great wrong to diffame him with all posteritie for one that solde all spirituall lyuinges especially where the Pope himselfe charged him with no such thing in his Synodall sentence against him Phi. All Stories crie out on Henry the fourth for Symonie Theoph. Neither doe I thinke that his tyme was free from it though his person were The writer of his life seemeth to complaine of those that were about him and had the gouerning of him in his nonage After the yong king was taken from his mothers lappe and lighted into the handes of his Nobles to bee brought vp by them whatsoeuer they prescribed him as a child hee did it hee exalted whom they would and deposed whome they willed him in so much that they did not serue him but raigne ouer him When matters of the kingdome were handled they regarded not the common-wealth but their priuate respects and in all thinges which they went about the first and chiefest marke they aymed at was their owne gaine But when hee came to that stay of age and witte that hee coulde discerne what was honest and profitable for him selfe and his Realme what not retracting those thinges which hee had doone at the suggestion of the Nobles hee condemned many of his owne factes and becomming as it were a iudge of himselfe hee chaunged thinges where neede so required I will therefore neither excuse him for licentiousnes of life when hee was young nor those that were about him from briberie but the Symonie which your holie Father shot at was an other matter Hee sawe the Clergie did relie too much as hee thought vppon their Prince by reason all Bishoprickes Abbayes and Benefices were in the Kinges gift and none placed in them but such as loued and honoured the King which was not for the Popes purpose the whole Clergie by their example and doctrine leading the people to reuerence and obey the magistrate The first steppe therefore to weaken the king not by sedition on the suddaine but by defection in continuance was to get the Clergie to bee neither promoted by the King nor beholding vnto the king but to exâ—mpâ— first their lyuings and after their persons from the Kinges power that thereby they might the more freely take part with the Pope against the King without all daunger and drawe the people after them vnder pretence of Religion when tyme shoulde serue Which at first was not spied of Princes till all too late they founde by proofe that when the Pope beganne to quarrell with them and excommunicate them for very trifling and earthly causes the Bishoppes Priestes and Monkes presently syded with the Pope against the Prince and taught the people that it was damnable to ayde maintaine or assist any Person or Prince excommunicate against the Church so they called the Pope and his Cardinals and this terror of conscience made subiectes euen by heapes abandour their Princes and aggregate them-selues to the Popes faction which otherwise they woulde not haue done had they not beene rightly instructed by their Pastours to obey their Princes and not to feare friuolous and rash excommunications from Rome whiles Popes will rule all and bee resisted by none The first layer of this corner stone in the kingdome of Antichrist was Hildebrand with his skilfull exposition of Symonie who resolued in his Councels at Rome that to accept any spirituall lyuing from a layman were hee King or Caesar that gaue it must bee taken for Symonie and as well the giuer as the taker bee cursed and excommunicated These bee his woordes Following the steppes of our holy fathers as wee haue doone in former Councels so in this by the authoritie of almightie GOD wee decree and pronounce that he which hereafter accepteth any Bishoprike Abbay or other ecclesiasticall Benefice at a lay mans hand shall in no wise bee counted a Bishoppe Abbate or Clerke and that he shall not dare approch to Rome vnder paine of the greatest curse vntill repenting him of his fact hee hath refused the place gotten by such ambition and contumacie which is al one with Idolatrie To the same censures wee will haue Kinges Dukes and Princes tied and subiected which shall presume to giue Bishoprickes or other ecclesiastical dignities a thing neither fit nor lawfull This sayth Platina he decreed lest the Church of Rome should receiue any hurt by briberie and Symonie Gregorie decided it to bee Symonie for a layman to present to a Benefice or for a Bishoppe to expect the Princes consent whereas in the Primatiue Church the people which were laymen chose their Pastours and for a long tyme the Bishoppes of Rome them-selues were not chosen without the Princes consent and that which Hildebrande affirmeth here to be Symonie the Bishoppes of the same See before him confessed to bee godly and the Emperours were possessed of it as of their right euer since the dayes of Charles which was very neere three hundreth yeres That stood good sayth Platina sixe hundreth and eightie yeres after Christ in the election of the Bishoppe of Rome which the Emperour or his Deputie in Italie confirmed This was in force a thousande yeeres after Christ euen when Hildebrande came to the Popedome as appeareth by the message which Henrie the fourth sent to the Romanes vpon the choise of Hildebrand and his answere backe againe to the Emperour For when the Romanes after the death of Alexander had elected Hildebrand without expecting the Princes pleasure the King sent Eberhardus an Earle to the States of Rome to knowe the cause quare praeter consuetudinem maiorum
Rege inconsulto Romanae ecclesiae Pontificem ordinassent ipsumque si non idoneè satisfaceret illicité accepta dignitate abdicare se praeciperet Why they had created a Bishoppe of Rome without the kinges consent against the auncient vse of their fathers and to commaund him that was chosen if hee made not due satisfaction to forbeare the dignitie which hee had vnlawfully taken To this Hildebrand answered that hee was chosen of the Romanes and violently constrained to take the place and yet by no meanes coulde be brought to permit himselfe to bee ordered Bishoppe of Rome vntill hee certainely knewe that the king and the Nobles of Germanie had consented to his election and for that cause hee had hitherto differred his consecration and surely woulde differ it vntill hee were aduertised of the Kinges pleasure by some trusty messenger The like Custome and priuilege the Prince had to consent to the elections of all other Bishoppes within his Empire before they coulde bee ordered as your owne Lawe confesseth and hee that withstoode it was accursed by the Popes owne mouth long afore Hildebrande was borne Adrian the Pope with a whole Synode of an hundreth fiftie-three Bishoppes yeelded vnto Charles the great right and power to choose the Bishoppe of Rome and to dispose the See Apostolike Also Adrian defined that the Archbishoppes and Bishoppes of euery Prouince shoulde receiue inuestiture of Charles so that vnlesse a Bishoppe were first liked and inuested by the King hee might not bee consecrated by any man And whosoeuer did against this Decree hee accursed In an other â—â—â—ncell helde at Rome Leo the eighth of that name after the example of Adrian confirmeth this custome to Otho the first King of the Germanes and Emperour of the Romanes I Leo with the whole Clergie and people of Rome doe settle confirme and establish and by our Apostolike authoritie we graunt and giue vnto our Lord Otho the first and his successours power for euer to appoint a Bishoppe of this chiefe Apostolique See and likewise Archbishoppes and Bishoppes that they shall receiue inuestiture of him in so much that no man of what dignitie or profession soeuer hee bee shall haue power to choose a Bishoppe of this chiefe Apostolike Seate or to consecrate any other Bishoppe without consent of the Emperour If therefore a Bishop bee chosen by the Clergie and people let him not bee consecrated vnlesse he be first allowed and inuested by the foresaid king And if any man attempt any thing against this our Apostolike sentence wee determine him to stand excommunicate These grauntes and confirmations your owne Stories doe witnesse though Blondus seeme to doubt of them as vnlikely Sigebert sayth From Charles the great for the space of three hundreth yeeres and aboue during the liues of threeskore and three Bishoppes of Rome they that were Emperours of Rome gaue Bishoprickes and Abbayes by the deliuerie of a ring and a staffe that then was counted lawful Now in the dayes of Hildebrand against the Decrees of their fathers the Popes in their Synodes haue determined that no Bishoprike nor ecclesiastical inuestiture can or should be giuen by a lay man with a staffe and a ring and they which so receiued Bishoprikes or other ecclesiasticall preferments were excommunicated Thus Hildebrand pretended to follow the steppes of his fathers when hee forsooke them and concluded that to bee Symonie which was none and made it a cause of depriuation for the Prince to hold that right which two Bishops of Rome with their Synodes expresly confirmed to Charles and Otho and sixtie three Bishops had suffered and approued in the Germane Emperours and himselfe had protested to the Princes Legates at his first entrance to the Bishoprike If this were not a mere quarell vniustlie sought by the Pope vpon the Prince against all order and equitie your nearest frindes shall be my iudges The seconde cause of Hildebrandes presumption against the Prince is like the first For what Lawe diuine or humane forced the Prince to goe to Rome at the Popes call Howe proue you that for sinne committed against God the Pope may enioyne what penance hee list And the Prince must abay Or that if the Prince refuse the Popes newe founde and needlesse penances hee must bee deposed Philand Woulde you not that Princes shoulde repent their wicked liues Theoph. Yeas and amende them with all Christian care and speede But what power hath the Pope by Gods Lawe to pardon the sinnes of Princes more than an other Bishoppe hath Or why shoulde Princes repenting not bee forgiuen without perfourming such penance as the Bishoppe of Rome list to deuise for them Had Gregorie delt with Henry the fourth to correct those thinges which were amisse and to returne to GOD with earnest and heartie repentaunce wee woulde not haue misliked that fatherly monition both to giue eare to the sinister and slaunderous informations of subiectes and Rebelles against their Prince to cite him in person to appeare at Rome that was his Soueraigne Lord and master to repell his messengers with reproche and infamie that came to cleare him to depriue him of his kingdome for not consenting to such penaunces as the Pope in pride and rage should impose to make him stand three daies in the colde frost barefooted before hee could bee admitted to presence and after his submission and absolution giuen by the Pope him selfe to set vppe his seruantes and sonnes to take his Crowne from him If this bee Iustice the dyuell himselfe may suffer for Iustice as wel as Pope Hildebrand Phi. Are Princes too good to do penance for their sinnes Theoph. Prooue first that such penances as you list to enioyne are necessarie partes of our conuersion vnto GOD and then wee will say Princes may be blamed for refusing them otherwise you wickedly abuse the keyes in that you make them serue your lustes to compasse your purposes and to bee reuenged of your enemies vnder colour of repenting and reconciling vnto God Phi. Must not the Church also bee satisfied Theo. If Popes vnder the name of the Church play the Tyrants and content not them-selues with those signes of inwarde sorrowe which God accepteth they bee nowe not forgiuers of sinnes nor watchmen ouer soules but cunning huntsmen after gâ—â—â—e and peruerters of trueth with their prophane policie which turne the keâ—â—s and Cannons of Christes Church to enrich them-selues and to get a Lordly Dominion ouer all persons and places by restraining the Sacraments and enioyning penaunces such as they see make most for their aduantage And this hath beene the manner of all your late Popes vpon priuate and earthly displeasures and quarrels to curse and banne both Prince and people till amendes were made them euen in their owne liking as if Christ had ordayned the Sacramentes to bee not seales of his grace and helpes of our fayth but baites to catch kingdomes and roddes to reuenge such Princes as will
writer witnesseth who also bringeth three reportes of his death one that hee fell mad and slue himselfe an other that in hunting he was cast off his horse and torne of dogges the thirde that wandering into a straunge Countrie he became a skullin in a certaine monasterie and there in repentance ended his life Phi. If his ende were so straunge his life coulde not bee good Theo. I commend not his life if it be true that Cromerus writeth of him I rather acknowledge the iust iudgement of God in taking vengeance of his sinnes Phi. Why doe you not acknowledge the like in his deposition Theoph. Because the Pope is not God to whom the punishing of Princes sinnes doeth rightly belong Phi. Would you that Princes should kill Bishops at the verie Altar for doing their duties and yet goe free Theo. As if God were not both as sincere and seuere a iudge as the Pope Phi. Who doubteth of that Theo. Then shall they not goe free that sinne against his lawe bee they Princes or others Phi. I speake of the meane time before that day come wherein hee shall iudge Theo. And in the meane time which you speake of God mightily punisheth all sortes and states though not by the Pope Phi. He punisheth by diseases and straunge kinde of deathes as hee seeth cause but yet good Lawes must be made and maintained by men for the repressing of vice amongst men Theo. Uerie true but those lawes must bee made by Princes and not by Popes Bishops haue not to do with the sworde which God hath giuen vnto Princes for the punishment of euill doers Phi. And what if Princes them-selues be the doers of euill who shall punish them Theo. Euerie soule must bee subiected to them and they to God They beare the sworde ouer others not others ouer them Besides them or aboue them no man beareth the sworde by Gods appointment Phi. The keyes are aboue the sworde Theo. The keyes open and shutte the kingdome of God they touch not the bodies nor inheritances of priuate men much lesse of Princes Onely the sworde is corporally to compell and punish which is not the Priestes but the Princes charge as I haue often shewed Phi. To let Princes doe what they will without feare of punishment is the next way to ouerthrow common-wealthes Theo. What kingdom can you shewe wherein it hath beene otherwise Saul willed Doeg in his presence to â—lea fourescore and fiue of the Lordes Priestes and hee smote their citie with the edge of the sworde both men women children and sucklinges Did Abiathar the high Priestes sonne that fledde and escaped depriue Saul of his kingdome or did Dauid for whose cause they were slain when shortly after hee had Saul in his power to doe with him as hee woulde seeke the kings life or suffer his men to take it that were readie to doe it Dauid when he was king defloured Bethsabe and caused her husbande to be murdered Did therefore any Priest or Prophet in all his Realme offer to depose him or did Absolon well to conspire against him Achab ioyned with Iesabel in putting Naboth to death and killing the Lords Prophets Did Elias depriue him or incite his subiectes to forsake him Herod beheaded Iohn Baptist and likewise Iames and apprehended Peter with a purpose to sende him after but that hee was deliuered by an Angell did Peter therefore take vengeance on Herode which hee might haue done with a worde as well as on Ananias or did he leaue him to the iudgement of God which shortly after insued with an horrible plague The tyrantes of all ages and vices of all princes both before the comming of our Sauiour and since haue they beene punished by Priestes as you woulde haue it or else haue they beene reserued to Gods tribunals as we affirme Phi. Some haue beene punished by Priestes though not all Theoph. Shew but one prince for fiue thowsand yeares since the first foundation of the earth that was iudicially cited examined corrected by a priest til Hildebrand began this new president If any princes were during all that time repressed it was done by their own states realms that for their extreme tyranny priests alwaies refrained those attempts and neuer thought it any part of their vocatioÌ„ to medle with the changing and altering of kingdoms Phi. It is a better readier way to reforme princes to subiect them to the tribunall of one godly Bishop as we do than to leaue them in thraldome to popular tumults and mutinies as you do Theo. We leaue them in thraldom to none but only to God and to serue him is no thraldome but an honorable and princely liberty Yet if princes were to choose their iudges among men they were farre better referre themselues to the generall consent of their Nobles commons at home than hold their scepters at the pleasures of disdainful seditious Popes which seeke to dishonor their persons impouerish their Realmes Phi. You speake this of spite Theo. Your own examples wil proue it a truth How dealt Adrian the fourth and Alexander the third with Frederike the first a wise valiaunt and vertuous prince Did not Adrian receiue a great summe of mony to excommunicate the Emperor the stomack which the pope tooke against the prince grew it not vpon these causes for that the Emperor in his letters put his own name before the Popes and required homage fealty of the Bishops for their temporalities and would not suffer the Cardinals to pray vpon the churches of Germany Did not the Cardinals conspire bind themselues with an oth that they would neuer choose any to be Pope but one that should be an opposite to this Emperor And when AlexaÌ„der the third was shuffled in by that faction against Victor did he not twise refuse to haue the matter discussed by councel and stirred vp the kings of Scicily France and the states of Venice against the Emperour and caused all the cities countries of Italie to rebell against him and hauing taken his thirde sonne prisoner would hee restore him or make peace with the father til in presence of al the people at the dore of S. Marks church in Venice the prince had cast his body flat on the ground the pope setting his foote on the Emperors neck had auanced himself with that part of the Psalme which saith Thou shalt walke vpoÌ„ the aspe the basilisk and shalt tread the lion and dragon vnder thy feete The parts that were plaied by the Bishops of Rome with Frederike the second Lodouik of Bauaria king Iohn of this Lande and Lewes the 12. of that name king of France which are your own examples if I should largely pursue theÌ„ a whole volume would not suffice them I wil therfore rip vp so much only as shal let the reader see with what cunning these princes were wearied with what pride they
cities of Italie doubled tripled to their vtter ouerthrow and by inciting the kinges of Fraunce England Spaine and Scicily to ioine against Frederike which thing Alexander the third a Cardinall of the same conspiracie with Adrian laboured for life to compasse Phi. Could you blame him Did not Frederik set vp Victor an Antipape against him chase Alexander froÌ„ his See Theo. Frederike did not set him vp but when two were chosen in a tumult the councel of Papia discussing the cause pronounced for Victor against Alexander their iudgement did the Emperor follow Phi. He might wel folow it for himself did procure it Theo. It is not true The Bishops of Italie Germany and other Countries were assembled by him and the matter committed as in the sight of God to their integrities and consciences The Princes words in the councell were Though I see the power to cal councels is ours by the office dignitie of our empire especially in so great dangers of the Church for so Constantine Theodosius Iustinian and of later memory Charles the great and Otho are knowen to haue done yet authority to define this weightie and chiefe matter I leaue to your wisedoms and iudgements For God hath made you Priestes and giuen you power to iudge of vs. And because in thinges which pertaine to God it is not for vs to iudge of you we exhort you to behaue your selues in this cause as those that looke for none other iudge ouer you but God This when he had saide he withdrew himselfe from the councell committing the whole examination of the matter to the church and to the persons Ecclesiasticall there assembled which were infinite There were fiftie Archbishops Bishops Abbats and Priors innumerable There were also the Embassadors of diuers nations promising whatsoeuer the Synod decreed should vndoubtedly bee receiued of their Realmes See their proofes and proceedinges of this councell in the chapters that follow and shew vs howe you can infringe them Phi. Alexander had the greater part of the Cardinals Theo. The greater part of the Cardinals had conspired to choose none but one that was and would be an enimie to the Prince to that intent had they taken an othe Adrian yet liuing After his death when they came to choose a successour the people the Clergie were as earnest to haue none but one that shoulde keepe the citie at peace with the Prince Whereupon the conspirators not daring to vtter themselues for feare of some vproare nine of the Cardinals the rest seeing and not contradicting at the importunate clamour of the people and clergie put the Popes mantle or cope vpon Octauian the Cardinall and placed him in S. Peters chaire and perfourmed all other solemnities of his inthronization with the great ioy of the whole citie the conspiratours which were 14 in number beholding al this and not gainsaying it or any part of it though they were present Twelue daies after Victor was immantled and possessed of the Popedom had receiued the obediences of the clergie throughout Rome the conspirators secretly departing the citie not so much as calling the rest of the Cardinals to their election by them-selues without the presence or allowance of the people or clergie set vp Rowland the chief man of their faction to be Pope named him Alexander This garboyle being brought to the Prince by the complaint of both partes he by letters messengers warned both sides to come to the councell that should be kept at Papia and there to heare the iudgement of the Bishoppes for the determining of this strife which Alexander and his adherentes vtterly refused These thinges were iustly proued before the Bishoppes assembled at Papia and sentence pronounced with Victor against Alexander What did Frederike in this case that a Christian Prince might not lawfully do in the like How could he do lesse than cal both parts to the Synod and commit the matter to the iudgement of the Bishops Or how could he but fauour and defend that â—ide which was now cleared and confirmed by the councell Phi. Victors election was faultie from the beginning Theo. If there were any fault in Victors election it was theirs that should haue presently protested against his ordering but in Alexanders there was neither right nor forme of any election They were ioyned in a wicked compact had thereto bound them selues by oth which by law was sufficient to forfeit their voices Againe their own silence drowned their interest when they would not or durst not speake their minds at the time place appointed for the choice Thirdly to their electioÌ„ they called not those who had right to be present to choose as wel as theÌ„selues therefore all that they did was vtterly voide Fourthly they had neither the consent of the clergy nor laity which by order duty they ought to aske Lastly they disdained the summoÌ„s both of the Emperor yâ— councel which by the canoÌ„s they should haue obeied and therefore might be depriued of the right which they had much more discharged from that which they neuer had Phi. The councell was not indifferent The. No more is any iudge to him that offendeth Phi. The Prince had no power to call the councel much lesse to summon the Pope Theo. You speake like your selfe Who called the ancient councels summoned the Popes to be present at them but Princes And why might not this councell cite depriue Alexander for his contempt as wel as the couÌ„cels of Pisa ConstaÌ„ce Basil did other Popes that came after for the like contumacie specially wheÌ„ as Alexander was yet no Pope but in strife with an other for the Popedome Phi. Platina saith Alexander had 22. Cardinals Victor but 3. Theo. So Alexander himselfe craketh whom Platina followeth but the contrary part testified that there were nine on the one side fourteene on the other Howbeit I stande not on these minutes of elections I note first the causes that prouoked the Pope his Cardinals to conspire against Frederike next the meanes they vsed to persue him and wearie him The causes were the setting of the Princes name in his letters before the Popes the requiring of homage of the Bishops stopping the Cardinals from spoiling his churches vnder a colour of visiting them Of these pretences and Frederiks answeres let the worlde iudge The meanes were the Pope did excommunicate the Prince his fautors gate Crema Placentia Verona Millan Brixia to rebel linked fifteene cities of Italie in a league with the king of Scicilie not long before his mortall enimie of purpose to withstand Frederike procured Henrie Duke of Saxonie to forsake his master in the fielde stirred the Princes of Fraunce England Spainei and the Venetians what they coulde to annoy him With these policies he began and with these he continueth euen at this present Thus your holy father with warres rebellions and
conspiracies sought to shake this Emperour out of his cloathes but God so assisted him that he razed and destroyed the cities that rebelled and turned the Duke that betrayed him out of his Dukedome and electorship and made the Pope glad to leaue his Palace and flie to Venice in a cookes attire and had not indulgence of nature wonne him to accept the peace which the Pope offered and his captiue sonne intreated hee was like enough to haue taught the Bishoppe of Rome a newe lesson but the time was then for Antichrist to be exalted and therefore it pleased the wisedome of God to suffer this worthy Prince to be weariâ—d and content to imbrace peace for the safety of his sonne that was prisoner at Venice Where if it be true that is written of Pope Alexander euen by your owne fellowes he shewed himselfe in his right colours For willing the Emperour before all the people to lie flat on the ground he set his foote on the princes necke and said it is written thou shalt walke vpon the aspe and Basiliske tread the Lion and Dragon vnder thy feete And the prince answereth I do it not to thee but to Peter whose successor thou art the pope replied it must be done to me as wel as to Peter The Pope is now where he would be not on meane mens shoulders but on Princes necks and that aduancement hath he gotten not by religion or vertue but by breaking othes bearing armes shedding blood and such like turkish and diuelish stirres Phi. Would you not he should defend himselfe Theo. If hee be Peters successour hee must feede not fight teach obedience not authorize rebellion praie for his enimies not persue them with force and furie Else he succeedeth Romulus in murdering not Peter in feeding Phi. What if wordes will not serue shall the chiefest Pastour of our soules see the keyes and the church contemned and oppressed and not draw the sword Theo. That is in effect if men will not beleeue your Preaching may you not take boytels and knock them on their heades Nay the case goeth not so well with you You wage warres with earthly states if they dislike your pride or auert your gaine you pretende Sainct Peter and the Church when you meane nothing but your temporall commodities and superfluities it suffiseth you not to bee free from Princes Lawes swords or to be their equalles you striue with them to be their superiours to displace theÌ„ if they displease you These be the quarels which your holy father and his adherentes haue professed persued for the space of fiue hundreth yeares with all their might and maine for these things haue you spilt more Christian blood than euer Turke or Tyrant did at this daie you take it in euill gree that you may not still continue that course With Frederik the first you fel out for that hee durst place his owne name before the Popes which all Emperours euer did and as you fought with Henrie the fourth to get clergie mens liuings of his hands so you tumbled with this Frederik to exempt their persons least they should either for commodity or duty leane to the Prince when he beganne but to looke to your fingers that you should not decay his Realme inrich your selues you conceiued such immortal hatred against him that you tooke an othe to reuenge him not onely by conspiration but euen by succession With Frederike the seconde you delt much after the same sort whom you did excommunicate twise thrise foure times for no cause without all order of law iustice as if princes had bin footbals for popes to play with not powers for christian Bishops to reuerence Phi. Was not Frederik the 2. excommunicated for verie good causes Theo. They were very good I promise you Vrspergensis an Abbate then liuing saith of them The pope of very pride the first yeare of his Popedom began to excoÌ„municate Frederik the Emperor for friuolous false pretences without al order of iudgement Phi. But Blondus Platina tel you an other tale Blondus saith The first yeare of his coronation making light account of his oth he atteÌ„pted many enormous things against the Pope who warned him to forebeare these wicked perfidious and rebellious interprises but he euery day more more despised his admonitioÌ„ which made the Pope to terrifie him with an excoÌ„munication if he did not relent make restitutioÌ„ And when the Emperor set light by the first curse the second time the Pope added a depriuation from his Empire crowne third time when the Emperor stood still out the Pope very much offended therat absolued al his subiects from their othes wherby they were bouÌ„d to yeeld him alleageance And so saith Platina Honorius the third did excoÌ„municate depriue Frederik the second for molesting the Popes dominion against right law Theo. Your Italians perceiuing their Popes to haue bin very waspish eger against the Emperors that liked them not knowing what a shame it would be in the eies of al posterity for them to haue proceeded in such rage wtout vrgeÌ„t euident matter in general words do charge those Emperors with many grieuous crimes But we trust neither the Popes discretion nor the reporters construction vnlesse we see the particular facts that were committed They may think those things to be hainous which indeede are friuolous and if the quarell were for lands and territories lying in question betweene the Empire and the See of Rome the Pope did wickedly in his owne cause to abuse the keies for earthly mammon Phi. Who made you the Popes iudge Theo. I iudge him not there is one that shall iudge both him and his actes yet I may ask you the causes for which Frederike was accursed depriued Phi. You haue heard them out of Blondus and Platina Theo. Platina sayth Contra ius fasque ditioneÌ„ Pontificiam vexabat he molested the Popes inheritaunces against all right that Blondus calleth wickednesse rebellion and periurie These bee high wordes but I see no deedes And if we credite them which wrote that verie present when these thinges were doone the Pope did the Emperour open wrong in receiuing and succouring his rebels against him Vrspergensis sayth the first yeare after Frederike was crowned Emperour hee began to warre vppon two Earles of Thuscan Matthew and Thomas which had surprised certaine fortes and peeces of his territorie within Apulia and cleane put them from all they had who flying to Rome sought helpe at the Popes hand whereof the Emperour often complained that the See Apostolike fostered his publike aduersaries and enimies This was the falling out betweene the Prince and the Pope which your Italian Stories do mention Platina sayth it was the Popes right Vrspergensis two hundreth yeares before him and a writer in the midst of these actions saith it was the Princes right and that
Who rightly considering these attempts will not lament them detest them as the foresignes prognosticatioÌ„s of the ruine of the church And when the composition was made between the Emperor the Suldane that Hierusalem with certaine places neere bordering should be restored to the christians truce remaine for ten yeares the Emperor by letters aduertised the Pope the rest of christendom of this ioyfull newes The Pope cast away the letters would not receiue them with his fautors as men affirmed made a rumor to be spred in Apulia that the emperor was dead Wherupon the cities that yet stood for the emperour inclined to render themselues into the popes hands to kil the Almanes that returned from the holy land or were commorant in Apulia a most barbarous and wicked purpose And lest there should want any thing to the vttermost of al wickednes when Frederik after his arriuing in the holy land sent messengers to Rome to require absolution reconciliation because he had now perfourmed his promise the Pope repelled his petition inioyned the soldiers in Asia to withdraw their help froÌ„ Frederik as froÌ„ a publike enimie It was not enough to fil the Princes hands with ciuill warres when he should prepare against the Turk to stop and spoile his souldiers that should accompanie him to inuade his lande sollicite his townes in his absence your holy father must set the Christians when they should fight against the Turke togither by the eares wil them not only to forsake but also to impugne their Emperor What could the diuel himselfe haue done more if he had bin couched in the Popes chaire than Gregorie did Phi. These things Gregorie himselfe denied the Italians that since haue written reiect them as false Theo. So had they need For if they should confesse them they must yeeld the Pope in so doing to be rather the foreman of Satan than the Uicar of Christ. And therefore your Italian Stories presuming all that the Pope saide in defence of himselfe to bee true and all that hee claymed from the Empire to bee his raile on Frederike in great choler as on a wicked and faithlesse Prince and acquite the Pope as doing his dutie in all these counterplots But Italian wittes are too well knowen to be trusted when they are offended and in Blondus a man may soone perceiue an intemperate heate against those Princes that withstoode the Pope Phi. You dislike our stories and we dislike yours Theo. May you dislike your owne and such as then liued and honoured the See of Rome hauing no iust exception against them but only that they could not apparel the Popes pride with some smoth deuises as the Italians do Phi. Not long since you praised Blondus haue you now cast him out of conceite Theo. I did commend Blondus for his diligence where affection did not interpeale him But in this case drawing all thinges to his appetite the more diligeÌ„t the more daÌ„gerous He not only taketh euery word that Gregory spake for a Gospel but addeth of his own head such things as Gregory neuer obiected to Frederike that with no small spite For where Frederik complained to the Princes of Almanie how iniuriouslie and deceitfully the Pope had dealt with him amongest other thinges whiles hee was in the seruice of Christ against the Turke how the Pope had surprised a part of his kingdom with armes Gegory in his letters replied that because Raynold Frederiks captaine inuaded the kingdome of Scicily the speciall patrimonie of the church least the See Apostolike should thereby be impugned his Legates entred Frederiks kingdom found many ready to submit themselues This is all that Gregory pretended who woulde not spare to speake any thing that with any colour he might in his owne excuse and against Frederike Blondus finding this to be but a simple cause for the Pope to inuade the Emperors dominion in his absence in that seruice first for so much as the right of Scicily was in strife between the Empire the church of Rome secondly for that if Scicily were held in fee of the church of Rome yet Frederike was right heire vnto it by the mother side in ful possessioÌ„ of that kingdom before he was made Emperor therfore wel Raynold his captaine might put ouer souldiers into Scicily to man the forts for al occasions to containe them in their duties whatsoeuer should happeÌ„ to his master in that voiage against the Turk But other inuasâ—oÌ„ preiudicial to the church of Rome the princes captaine neither needed nor coulde make any Bondus I say perceiuing that Gregories pretence woulde seeme but a quarel sought of purpose to make a rebellion against the Emperour whiles he was from home helpeth the matter with certaine additions which are both odious and slaunderous Frederik saith he ready to take ship saile froÌ„ Italie was so far froÌ„ asking the Popes absolution benediction that making one Rainold the gouernor of the kingdome of Scicilie in plaine words willed him to oppresse the Pope and Clergie by all meanes Blondus might haue doone well to tell vs who stoode by and heard these wordes which Gregorie would neuer haue omitted if he had knowen them And if the Pope that sifted his words and deedes with all diligence knew no such thing how shoulde Blondus so many yeres after come by the knowledge of them The other obiection that he despised the Popes absolution is as foolish For as soone as he was landed on the other side and began to march towardes the Turke Platina confesseth that he was very earnest both by letters and messengers to be absolued by the Pope from his excommunication and could not obtaine it To haue delt therefore with the Pope before his going to be absolued had beene in vaine the Pope doubting that he would not goe and refusing as your selues confesse to absolue him when he was there arriued and encamped against the Turke Phi. The Pope would not absolue him because he went about to make peace with the Turke The. The Pope would euer haue some cause to molest him otherwise I see no reason to mislike the peace For whether the Turke stood in feare of him or was to be distracted emploied about other wars I know not the Emperor had not bin there a yere but the Turke was glad to yeeld him the kingdome of IerusaleÌ„ sauing the Temple a few Castles to hold peace with him and Christendom for ten yeres Which conclusion as it was honorable in it selfe so was it acceptable to all Christian states saue only to the Pope mary he of meere malice against Frederike when the letters were brought that should aduertise him of the Emperours good successe threw them away and shewed him-selfe much agreeued with the matter as one that did abode the Princes speedie returne would disappoint him of his hope And he missed not his
coniecture For within short space the Emperour recouered his townes that were lost and staied those that were shrinking from him to the Popes no small regreet Phi. He was offended with Fredericke for that the Temple was left in the Turkes handes Theo. The Prince perceiuing the Pope to enforce his countries at home to irritate his souldiers against him what els should he stay for when he was once reuested with the kingdome of Ierusalem Phi. Our Lordes sepulcher and the Temple were the chiefest things that the Pope regarded Theo. And good cause why They gate him more mony and ridde him of moe enimies than any places in the world besides Phi. Which way trow Theo. The Pope no sooner lacked mony but he must haue a collection through Christendome for the succourse of the holy land as you call it and if he fell out with any Prince or Emperour or saw him likely to stand in his way that he could not rise so high as he would he would neuer cease what with excommunications to feare him what with indulgences to allure him till he had gotten his consent either to bestowe his owne person on the seruice or at least to employ his treasures and forces to recouer the land of Iurie from the hands of Saracens and in their absence he ruled the roast as pleased him and grew great by their decayes Phi. Would you not haue the Turke resisted Theo. Your holy father neuer tooke the way to haue that doone He suffered the Turke to deuoure the Greeke Empire and set the Princes of the West not to helpe them but to fight for the place where Christ was crucified by the Iewes whiles the Turke in the meane time ouerthrewe many thousand Christian Churches and Cities else where and nearer home And the supplies of men and money were so stragling and interrupted with dissentions and discords at home that the Turk reconquered more in three yeeres than the Christians wanne in threeskore yeeres before Phi. Yet the Popes good will is to bee commended the fault was in them that woulde not agree Theo. And who was the cause of that but onely the Pope Phi. You speake of spite Theo. Who filled the Emperours hands with rebellions and dissentions more than the Bishoppe of Rome did Who brought the Empire to a bare title and the Emperour to bee skant able to defend his owne but onely the Pope Who cut Italie into so many seuerall Marquesdomes and Dukedomes as wee nowe see but your holy father seeking to exclude the Germane Prince cleane out of Italie and to hedge vp his way to Rome with many particular states and regiments interiected and all linked in one league to repell him from passing or entring their Countries Neither was it enough to straighten him abroade vnlesse hee did also weaken him at home for feare least some valiant Prince occasioned by so populous and stout a nation as the Germanes are shoulde attempt with force of armes to recouer Italie And therefore you were neuer quiet till Germanie was shaken into as many shiuers as Italie and the Emperour able to command none of them but by their common consent and according to their owne liking Which is the state of the Empire in our dayes This was not the way to make the Emperour strong against the Turke for the regetting of Ierusalem out of his handes but to diet the Emperour and to take him so low that he should not bee able to wraffle with the Bishoppe of Rome without a present foile and instaunt daunger of loosing all And thus weake though hee were yet to make him weaker the holy lande was euer vrged by the Pope as a perpetuall Lottarie to make him and other Christian Princes spende their people and wealth with so small successe and mightie losse that no one thing did wast and weaken Christendome more than this Philand Is this the thankes you giue the Pope for staying the Turke from inuading Europe Were it but for that respect you shoulde thinke better of him than you doe Theo. To keepe the Turke from subduing Christendome is a good and godly enterprise but from that the Pope was fardest off He woulde neuer assist the Christians of Grecia continually fighting with the Turk six hundred and fiftie yeres after the diuision of the Empire vnder Charles the great before their Empire was ouerthrowen but rather held the Princes of Christendome from succouring them vnlesse they would submit them-selues to the See of Rome which they would neuer doe though some of their Princes do now and then in hope of aide inclined to a kind of concord And suffering the Turke still to preuaile against them and at length to swallow them vp to the great shame of the Christiā princes that next adioined but most of himself who was well willing because they were not his obedients to leaue them and theirs as a pray for the Turke he would needes goe fish for for Christs sepulcher as if that had beene the next way to safegared Christendome from the Turke to keepe the place where Christ was buried and to let him in the meane while conquere halfe Christendome And that made your holy father storme so much at Frederikes peace concluded with the Turke wherein the Sepulcher was left out that hee would not absolue him after his returne but vpon the paiment of six skore thousande ounces of gold Which after three pounds an ounce as it is valued in our dayes is three hundered and three skore thousand pounds And though the Prince for all this monie had but one dinner at the Popes table yet Blondus is so farre out of charitie with Frederike that hee saith the Pope was easier in receiuing so small a recompence than hee ought or was fit hee should Phi. That monie was paied for the dammages doone to the Church by the Princes souldiers in their late warres not for his dinner as you gibe Theo. Blondus and Platina doe presuppose that Frederike by his Agents in his absence did spoile and sack S. Peters Patrimonie but Gregory that receiued the monie saith the Princes deputy inuaded Sicilie and no more which was Frederikes right and inheritance though the Pope claimed thence a yeerely custome And therefore since Frederikes captaine did the Pope no wrong to inuade Sicilie being his masters dominion when the cities perhaps vppon the Popes censures beganne to slide from Fredericke no reason the Prince should performe the losses and dammages of the warre which beganne by the Popes egernes and consequently no cause for the Pope to exact so much mony of the prince but either for his dinner which was too deare or for his keies which should not be sold or for his fauor which dured not long For within short space after they fell at worse variance than before and the same Pope the second time accursed and deposed Frederike and the matter grew to such heate that your holy father crossigned souldiers
against the Emperor as if he had bin a Turke or a Saracene Philand Did not Frederike rather play the Turke with such as fought against him when he cut their heades in fower parts and laide them crossewise on their shoulders and with hoat Irons burnt a crosse in their foreheads whose liues he spared and caused the Clergie mens crownes to bee cut square to the very sculles What Turke or Saracene euer shewed like crueltie The. Al executions not in warre onely but in peace also seeme cruell if you looke to the punishments and not to the offences Phi. What was their offence Theo. They rebelled against him for the Popes pleasure whom by Gods Lawe they shoulde haue honoured and obeyed as their Soueraigne Lord and lawfull Prince and not therwith content they take vp the crosse against him in their badges and banners as if it had beene against a Turke or an Infidel If subiects so farre forget their dueties as to vse their Princes like Infidels because the Pope disfauoureth theÌ„ why should not princes forget their clemencie reward rebels and enemies according to their deserts It was therefore more enormous for the Pope to proclaime the crosse against a Christian Prince though his aduersarie for some priuate respectes as hee doeth against the Turke than for the Prince to inflict some such punishment as should make them repent their follies Phi. Frederike impugning the Pope with all his might why shoulde not the Pope such him-selfe the best way hee coulde Theo. And the Pope bringing rebels into the fielde against the Prince as it had beene against an Infidel why shoulde not the Prince teach them to beware howe they vsed the crosse against Christian Magistrates which was deuised against Turkes and Saracenes Phi. The Prince himselfe was in all the fault Theo. Because he woulde not suffer the Pope to ride on his necke as hee had done on his graundfathers and the rebellious Cities of Lombardie to shut him cleane out of Italie For what other cause had Gregorie the ninth againe to excommunicate and depose Frederike after hee had shewed himselfe so desirous of peace that hee paide a huge heape of golde to content the Popes ambitious spirite What one iniurie done to the Church of Rome can your Italian Sories iustly charge him with after his first absolution If you thinke your holy father may turne and wynd Princes like dishcloutes and curse them and depose them for what causes he lyst then Frederike was in some fault for that hee would not graunt peace to the Cities of Italie which rebelled against him at the Popes motion but if that bee madde diuinitie as in deede it is the Pope himselfe was not wel aduised first to set the subiects vp in rebellion against their Prince and next to depriue the Prince for offering to represse them that resisted him Shewe vs therfore what offence it was against the Popes holynes for the prince to compel his subiects to obedience by force of armes or else wee must conclude your holy father did the prince open wicked wrong to thunder his censures against him for seeking his own by those meanes which God hath allowed vnto magistrats Phi. The Emperour hired some to rebel in Rome against the Pope Theo. Your Italian writers would faine find holes in Frederiks coate if they could tel howe but their tales hang not together Platina runneth one way Blondus an other and Antoninus a thirde Platina sayth that Peter Fregepanes taking part with the Emperour kept the Pope out of Rome and made him decline to Viterbium as hee was going with an armie against the Emperour whome hee vnderstoode to bee within Italie and to oppugne the confederate Cities So that by Platinaes confession the Pope was in armes against the Emperour afore the fautors of Frederike offered him any violence Blondus a deadly persuer of Frederike with his pen reporteth this resistance made by Peter Fregepanes before the Emperor entered Italie addeth as his maner is of meere spite that the Prince had hired him with mony so to doe Antoninus as Nauclerus alleageth him writeth that Frederike hearing the cities of Lombardie Millan Bononia and many others of Romandiola to bee fallen from him and turned to the deuotion of the Church went against them with a great armie And the Citizens of Millan with al their strength and the Popes Legates and the whole confederacie of Lombardie which did cleaue to the Church fought a fielde with the Emperour in a place called New court and the Millanoes with their adherents after a sore conflict were ouerthrowen many of theÌ„ being slaine many taken prisoners with their Carroch where the Ruler of Millan being the sonne of the Duke of Venice and sundrie other Noble men of Lombardie were taken and sent into Apulia the Prince causing the Dukes sonne to bee hanged on a tower by the Seas side the rest to be executed some one way some an other This Florentine conâ—esseth the Popes Legates were in the battayle that was fought with Frederike at his first entrance into Italie and that the very original of the warre was the defection of the Lombardes from the Empire to ioyne with the Pope or as he speaketh with the Church which in deede was the only strife betweene the Pope and the Prince whatsoeuer Blondus others in hatred of Frederike do surmise Uiew now this quarrell tel vs whether Frederike did more than a Christian Prince might doe or whether the Pope rather did not wickedly nourish the conspiracie that the Lombardes made with Adrian the fourth against Frederike the first to driue the Emperour cleane out of Italie which was the point that the Pope pushed at all this while Phi. The Pope required nothing at his hands but the preseruation of that league which his graund-father made at Constans and his father during his life had kept inuiolable Theo. That peace included none but Frederike the first and Henrie his sonne it extended not to their heires and aftercommers as appeareth by the othe of fidelitie which the confederate cities tooke to Frederike then Emperour and king Henrie his sonne no farther and therfore that peace being expired by the death of his father the Prince was at libertie to doe as he sawe cause Phi. But the Pope sought the continuance of that peace Theo. And the Prince perceiuing the Popes fetch in time to exclude the Emperour cleane out of Italie by the renuing of that peace would not assent to it but came with a mind resolued to bring the Lombardes to their former subiectioÌ„ What wrong was this in Frederike Phi. It was hard dealing Theo. None at all And considering the Popes drift to be free from the Emperors force that he might with more safetie quarrel with him when he lysted and depriue him at his pleasure without daunger it was necessarie for the Prince to settle his state keepe his right in Italie it should otherwise
not be possible for him and the Princes that succeeded him to represse the Popes insolencie which beganne to increase apace This was the true cause why Gregorie the 9. set himselfe against Frederike the second after his first absolution which cost so many thousands what soeuer the Italian writers do imagine in hatred of Frederike whom they misliked as well for persuing the Pope as for spoyling and wasting their natiue Countrie Phi. Did hee not well deserue their hatred that ranged ouer all Italie with incredible cruelty sacked their cities filled euery towne village familie with mortal discord and dissention banished and murdered Bishoppes imprisoned the Cardinals Prelats as they were comming to the Councel so pursued inclosed the Pope that he died for very griefe of heart as Platina writeth Theo. Will you kindle a fire and then looke it should not burne What other fruits of warre coulde you expect but these or worse You made leagues to bereaue him of his right you caused his subiects to meete him in the field you accursed his person and depriued him of his Empire you came out in armes against him as you would against a Turk or an Infidel you did what you could to requite him his with like rage and violence when you could not be euen with him you thought it best to complaine of his crueltie But you loose your labour For warres are iudged by their causes and not by their consequents If Frederikes cause were good as the persuite of his right demand of obedience within the Territories of his Empire could not be euil thē your rebellions confederatiōs excōmunications depriuations such like actions to resist him defraud him or oppresse him were al wrongful wicked and his reuenge of your conspiracies treacheries though sharp and seuere was lawful as the cause stood needful Phi. No Prince euer delt so badlie with the Church of Rome as Frederike did Theo. No Prince was euer prouoked with halfe the iniuries with the which he was He was foure seueral times solemnly deposed by the bishops of Rome once by Honorius twise by Gregorie lastly by Innocentius the 4. his good friend whiles he was a Cardinal but his capital enimie when hee came to bee Pope Phi. It skilleth not how often it was done so long as it was done for causes vrgent important Theo. If the Pope had any such power as he hath not the causes must be iust and true which these were not Phi. Yes that they were And though the rest did not so plainely expresse thē which maketh you to carp at them yet Innocentius the 4. layeth his downe in writing which are extant to this day Theo. You say trueth The censure of Innocentius against Frederike the second is extant in your Decretals and foure causes of his deposition there remembred Phi. And those no lesse than periurie sacrilege heresie iniurie and oppression of the Church of Rome The. If it be enough for you to obiect what you list you may soone condemne whom you please We heare your holy father in his magnificence charge the Emperour with these foure things but I winne it woulde trouble him or you to prooue them Hee committed periurie the Pope sayth in his iudiciall sentence by rashly breaking the peace that was made betweene the Church and the Empire If the trueth were well tried this periurie lighteth on the Pope and not on the Prince For Howe coulde the Popes Legates be in the field against the Prince to assist his rebels and not breake the peace that was made betweene the Church and the Empire Is the Popes power so infinite that he can make right in the Prince to be periurie and warre in him-selfe to bee peace The taking and deteyning of Cardinals and Prelates was the sacrilege which in this place is obiected to the Prince but when you proue that Prelats and Cardinals be no subiectes and that they may lawfully take armes against Princes and yet no Prince must lay handes on them then you may chaunce to haue an action of wrongful detynue against the Emperour but not of sacrilege It is a point of your popish pride to make it sacrilege for a lawfull magistrate to restraine your parish Priestes of Rome from their seditious intens practises What are your Cardinals by Gods Law more than other Clergie men or why may not the Prince both represse them and punish them if they disturbe his state Phi. They were not his subiects Theo. Then were they his enemies since they came armed and presumed with their shippes to encounter his why should he not sease them as his prisoners Phi. They came to keepe a Councel being thereto called by the Popes authoritie Theo. To call Councels was the Emperours right and not the Popes and this conuenticle was called to oppresse the Emperour Why therefore might hee not preuent it and disperse it especially when straungers offered to passe his dominion by plain force without his leaue Heresie was the third crime for which the Pope suspected him Wherin if a mortall enemie may be both accursed and iudge and proceede vpon no better ground than suspition you may quickly condemne any man of heresie Princes haue warme offices if they shal lose their Crownes as soone as the Pope lysteth to suspect them of heresie The fourth cause is more foolish than any of the former The prince forsoothe forced his subiects in Sicilie to aguise him and obey him as their lawful prince notwithstanding the Bishoppe of Rome had deposed him and the persons that would not hee banished and diuersly punished This in deede was not for your profite but this was nothing against his dutie Ph. He forced them to impugne the Church of Rome whose vassalles they were Theo. The Church of Rome had a yeerely pension out of Sicilie which is here specified more the Pope could not claim and that pensiō was first yeelded by those that vsurped the kingdome of Sicilie against the Empire For Roger of Normanie whē Lotharius the Emperor had chased him out of Apulia Campania taken those countries from him intended the like for Calabria Sicilie but that he was called away by suddain occasions died before he could returne grew to a secret compact with the bishop of Rome to hold the kingdome of Sicilie which the Emperour claymed as from the Church of Rome by a yeerely recognisance After the death of Lotharius Conradus the next Emperour was so troubled first with rebellion at home then with an expedition into Syria that he had no leasure to thinke of Sicilie Against Frederike the first who succeeded Conrade in the Empire did William of Sicilie nephew to this Roger for his sonne raigned not long conspire with the cities of Lombardie and the Bishoppe of Rome to keepe the Germane Emperour aloofe from Italie and so long they striued hauing
the Popes ayde with excoÌ„munications and rebellions that Frederike beganne to hearken to a peace and William of Sicilie hauing no children maried his sister to the Emperours sonne called afterward Henrie the sixt and father to this Frederike that wee speake of as willing the kingdome shoulde returne to the Emperours line who otherwise layd a chalenge to it When William of Sicilie was dead Henrie the sixt by maine force of armes subdued Sicilie and was receiued into Falernum the chiefe towne of Sicilie as a conquerour So that Frederike the second had a double right to the kingdome of Sicilie either as heire to his vncle in which case the Popes pension was not extinguished or els as Emperour by reason his Father did recouer it by conquest reunite it to the Empire Either of these tytles is sufficient to defend his doings in Sicilie As Emperour hee might claime it afore the Pope from the Pope for so did Conrade the third and Otho the fourth As king of Sicilie hee was to pay but a pension not to be the Popes Uasal and if the Pope should offer him any wrong he might lawfully repell force by force and punish the people of the land that would not obey him as their king assist him to hold his owne The Popes allegation therefore against Frederike for compelling the subiects of Sicilie to continue their obedience notwithstanding the Popes interdict is very friuolous Frederike herein did no more than any Prince might and would doe in the like state And graunt he had somewhat abused the kingdome of Sicilie which he did not is that a cause to remoue him from the Empire Phi. The other three be the principall causes Theo. Two of them namely heresie and periurie be starke false the thirde was arrogance in the Pope to make it sacrilege to touch a Cardinall not wickednes in the Prince to take them as enemies that labored to defeat him of his Crowne Phi. You woulde take the Princes part wee see were his cause neuer so euill Theo. You doe take the Popes part wee see though the sentence hee gaue bee neither agreeable to Gods Law nor mans Lawe nor his owne Canons Phi. Howe proue you that Theo. Nay it is hie tyme for you to come forth with your proofes or els wise men wil discerne in Innocentius the image of Antichrist proudly iudging in his Consistorie without regarde of God or man A professed aduersarie to sit iudge alone in his owne quarrel and for causes apparently false or friuolous to proceede to the depriuation of a Prince yea the greatest Prince in Christendome and in right his Soueraigne Lord and master neither admitting his proxie nor hearing what exceptions he could take to his accusers but appointing him to come in Person out of his owne Realme into an other princes Dominion and to pronounce him guiltie of all that was obiected being neither present nor heard for that he refused to put his life into his enemies handes If this bee iustice the wild Irish and Sauage Indians that know not what belongeth to cyuil societie or humane reason may be iudges as well as the Pope Phi. If the crimes were notorious and the Prince refused iudgement why should not the Pope proceede against him in his wilful absence Theo. The prince sent to shew the reason of his absence his atturnees to deale for him as farre as should be needful but that the Pope would not expect their coÌ„ming no not the space of three daies at the petition of most of the Nobles Prelates that were in his councel The crunes pretended to be notorious were conceiued in great words as periurie sacrilege heresie tyrannie but the facts coÌ„mitted by Frederike as breaking peace with the Pope that tooke part in the field with his rebels against him deteyning the Cardinals that went to work his deposition and fought with his fleete constraining his subiects in Sicilie to acknowledge him for their king were temporal priuate quarrels directly concerning the Popes atteÌ„pts against the Prince and the Princes right to defend himself which your holy father of his accustomed presumptioÌ„ called periury sacrilege tyrannie being the aduerse part gaue iudgement in his own cause as liked best his own displeased greeued stomack Now how this could stand with the prescription of diuine or moderation of humane lawes we would gladly learn Phi. Your refuge wil be to impugne the Popes power which was theÌ„ confessed though the hastynes of his censure were somwhat misliked The. By whom was it confessed Phi. By al men euen by Frederike himselfe Theo. You must make truer reports before you giue true iudgements Frederike in his epistle to the king of Fraunce shewing this sentence by all lawes to be voide alleageth that though the Bishop of Rome had full power in spiritual things so as he might bind or loose sinners whatsoeuer yet it is no where read that the Pope by the warrant of gods or mans law may remoue the Empire when he list or iudge temporally of kings princes to depriue them of their crownes The cities people of Italie by that opeÌ„ eger faction of Guelfs Gibelines which dured euen to our age shewed how many there were that tooke with the Prince against the Pope notwithstanding the Popes excommunications depriuations which you would so faine vphold at this day This faction of Guelfs ayding the Pope against the prince and Gibelines standing with the prince against the Pope grew so general sayth Nauclerus that no citie no towne no people remained free from that infectionâ— Citie hath waged warre with Citie prouince with prouince One halfe of the people with the other from that time to this our age for no cause else but for this faction some helping their prince against the Pope some the Pope against their prince For 200. yeres vpward saith Blondus euen to these our times they pursued eche other with such rage vnder these vnluckie names that the Italians wrought greater mischief among theÌ„selues than before they suffered at the hands of barbarous nations Towne against towne Countrie against Countrie the people of eche place diuided among them-selues fought together for no cause but for this dissention and their victories had no ende nor meane but bloodshed and vtter subuersion neither onely neighbours and cohabitants but those that dwelt fiue hundreth miles asunder euen the poorer sort and beggars as wel as rich and mightie men when they met eche other coÌ„mitted al crueltie one side on the other This flame your holy father kindled in his owne Coâ—ntrie with his rash proceeding against the Emperour so wide it skattered so loÌ„g it endured so fiercely it raged amoÌ„gst your own Deuotionists and yet you would make the worlde beleeue the Popes power to depriue princes was neuer doubted of but in these our dayes and by men of our side What Germanie thought of
hee did vppon conference had with the best learned that were in his age When it was knowen in Germanie what Pope Iohn had decreed Ludouike sayth Auentine consulted the best Lawyers and skilfullest diuines that were in Italie Germanie or France especially the doctors of both lawes and diuines of Bononia and Paris They all wrote back that the actes and decrees of pope Iohn against the Emperour were repugnant to Christian simplicitie and the heauenly Scriptures The men of note and such as wrote against the Pope for this inordinate presumption were Marsilius Patauinus Iohannes Gandauus Andreas Laudensis Vlricus Haugenor Luitpoldus de Babenburg Dante 's Alligerius Occam Bergomensis Michael Caesenas Phi. What Recken you these The most of them were condemned by the Church of Rome for heretiks Theo. They were condemned by the Pope for speaking truth Marsilius booke is extant intituled The defender of peace What error can you charge him with but this that hee wrote against the insufferable pride and ambition of the Pope Dants error for the which he was condemned your friendes affirme to be this for that in his booke of the Monarchie he saide The Romane Empire had no dependance of the Pope in temporall things but only of God Occam the Minorite pursued that argument so farre that he brought the Popes power and his Prelates touching their tēporal dominiō to nothing These were their errors for y◠which the Church of Rome otherwise called the Pope and his Cardinals condemned these learned and innocent men With as good reason you might haue condemned christ and his Apostles for the same causes S. Paul auoucheth the one There is no power but of God and Christ himselfe commaunded the other Kings of nations beare temporall rule You shall not doe so Phi. They held other errors Theo. Euen such an other For this was against the state and pride of Prelates and that touched their cofers and treasures which indeede were their Goddes The Poore Franciscanes beganne to dispute that it was a signe of more perfection and a neerer resemblance to the life which Christ and his Apostles ledde on earth for clergie men to renounce the world and possesse nothing of their owne rather than to nestle themselues i◠the sweetest and richest seates of christendome and t◠heape vp mammon and wealth in such abundance that they were able not only to beard Princes in their Palaces but also shoulder them in the field The ground of their opinion they tooke from your canon Law and your holy father himselfe in erecting the Rule of Frier Frauncis could confesse as much mary when the Emperour in hatred of the Popes hauftines and greedines cast some fauour to the Franciscanes the Pope to match the Prince gaue forth an edict and made it heresie to say that Christ his Apostles possessed nothing in this world which because the Friers impugned in their schooles and sermons the Pope cōdemned them and all their aiders and abetters whereof Lodouike was one for heretikes This is that other heresie for the which Micheal Cesenas Occam and other Franciscanes and Lodouike the Emperour as a Patrone of theirs were impeached which Platina thinketh was scant aduisedly doone by the Pope and his counsellers Pope Iohn saith he set foorth a Decree wherein he declared them to be rebels to the Church of Rome heretikes which affirmed that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne This decree doth scant accord with the sacred Scripture which testifieth in many places that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne Thus your holy father to spite the prince and to reuenge such as opened their mouthes at his sumpteousnes and furiousnes made it heresie to commend humilitie and pouertie Philand That Christ and his Disciples did possesse nothing neither in priuate nor in common this was their error and not as you report it Theo. In deede it is worth the noting howe finely your Holie Father did circumuent them For where they ment that Christ and his Apostles lefte the worlde to follow their vocation and woulde after possesse nothing superfluous neither in priuate nor common but helde themselues satisfied with apparell and foode such as the goodnesse of GOD by the almes of other or by their owne industrie not slacking their function did prouide for them the Bishope of Rome hauing alreadie gotten a good part of the Empire into his hands and daily deuising newe quarels to get more and besides oppressing al Christian Realmes with intollerable taxes and paiments for the maintaining of his warres and furnishing of his other expences which were both needeles and excessiue and knowing by this vrging of christs and his Apostles pouertie which the friers began euerie where to publish how vnlike he should appeare to S. Peter whose successour hee would seem to be peruerted the wordes and sense of the poore friers as if they had taught that the diete and raiment which Christ and his Apostles vsed had not beene their own but wrongfully taken and vniustly withheld from others that were the right owners and with this shifte made it heresie and blasphemie to say that Christ had nothing of his own where the friers were neuer so madde to defend that Christ and his Apostles had no right nor proprietie to the clothes which they ware and meates which they vsed but they rather detested the monstruous wealth and riote of Monckes and Bishops which pretending to forsake the worlde and followe Christ heaped greater riches and wallowed in oftner pleasures than any secular persons which soare when the wretched friers began to touch they were condemned and burned for heretikes These were the principal grifes against Lodouike which the Pope and the Cardinals could neuer digest I meane his resisting their pride and misliking their wealth for these causes when he offered reconciliation and satisfaction that the Christian world might haue rest from those domesticall warres and miseries the Pope would receiue none but on these conditions that the Prince shoulde confesse him selfe guiltie of al those errors and heresies that were laide to his charge that he should resigne the Empire and not resume it without the Popes leaue that he should put himselfe his Children and his goods into the Popes hands to be done withal as should please the Pope Such was the mildnesse of this Romish Sainct that his hart could not be satisfied but with the vtter destruction of the Emperour and his children which when the Princes and Bishops of Germanie perceiued they signified their generall determination to Lodouicke in these wordes Most gratious Lord and Emperour the Princes electours and other the faithfull of your Empire perusing the articles of your submission which the Pope requireth and resteth on with one consent haue decreed them to be conceiued to the subuersion and ouerthrow of the Empire so that neither you nor they by reason of the
for the Pope was not as earnest to haue him gone but he was as glad to go as willing neuer to returne And therfore to take his farewel he sould all the right title that the Emperour had throughout Italy as Blondus saith omâ—ia vbique concessit ex quibus pecunia abra di potuit passed away euery thing in euerie place by the which he might get any mony And as he did in Italy so did he in germany For laboring to haue his son VeÌ„celaus chosen his successor in the Empire wheÌ„ the electors wold not agree to it because the child had nothing in him fit for so great a calling the Emperor offered euery of the Electours a hundred thowsande poundes to goe through with the choice and so they did And not hauing mony sufficient to defraie such an infinite summe hee pawned the Landes and reuenues of the Empire into their handes till they were paied and so they remaine to this day Hence the Romane Empire came to naught neither was it euer after able to stand vpright the Princes Electors keeping al in their handes and swearing the Emperour when he is first chosen that he shall not claime such things as they haue of the Empire in morgage Vencelaus for whom his father paied 600000. pounds to haue him Emperour proued so vnprofitable for the place that the electours when Charles was deade of their authoritie put him from the crowne and set an other in his steede Some Princes of other countries you might repeate which I omit no man doubteth but your holy Fathers pride and arrogance serued him to venter on meaner Princes as well as on Emperours this is it that wee stand on for a thowsande yeares there was no such thing vsed nor offered in the church of Christ and since that time though Popes haue beene very forwarde to depose Princes you shall neuer shewe any Prince that acknowledged or obeyed that sentence yea none of their people vnder them nor of the borderers about them embraced those iudgementes but such as had secrete quarelles against them or sought to gaine some part of their kingdoms from them The rest of their subiects neighbours honoured them as Princes notwithstanding your furious lightning and thundering from Rome as I haue shewed by many specialties from the time of Henrie the fourth to these our dayes and an infinite number of your owne side haue by deedes and wordes boldly and sharpely reproued that insolent presumption And therefore if you doe any good in this cause you must goe higher and bring vs elder examples that Bishops of Rome haue deposed Princes than these violent and tragicall vproares of later Popes blinded with errour and puffed with pride who to compasse their vngodly desires haue ouerwhelmed the earth with fraude and force with periurie and iniquity with battaile bloodshed like furies of hel not like teachers of truth or Pastors of mens soules Could you proue tenne thowsand such attempts it would relieue you litle we may not leaue the manifest commaundements of God constant obedience of Christes church for so many hundreths and allow of those hatefull and heathenish deuises which the sonne of perdition hath lately broched Phi. Will you yeeld to an elder example if it be brought you Theo. Reason we know the man before we reuerence his act Phi. It shal be Gregorie the great first of that name whome you confesse to haue beene both learned and holy He being many hundreth yeares before Gregorie the seuenth and our speciall Apostle practised the poinct we now stand on and therefore likely to be beleeued of all reasonable men Theo. Did Gregorie the great euer depose Princes Phi. That he did Theo. Name the Prince which he deposed and winne the field Phi. He deposed them before hand whatsoeuer they were that shoulde at any time after to the worlds end impugne his priuilege Theo. Then he deposed princes not only before they were Crowned but also before they were conceiued of their mothers Phi. He adiudged they should be deposed that so offended though actually he deposed none In the forme of his priuilege graunted to S. Medardes Monasterie thus he decreeth Si quis Regum Antistitum Iudicum vel quarumcunque personarum secularium huius Apostolicae authoritatis nostrae praeceptionis decreta violauerit cuiuscunque dignitatis vel sublimitatis sit honore suo priuetur If any King Prelate Iudge or what other secular person soeuer shall transgresse this decree of our authoritie and commaundement of what preeminence of highth soeuer he be let him be depriued of his dignitie Theo. Why stoppe you there and goe no farther Phi. I neede not here is enough for my purpose Theo. Yet reade on the rest or if you will not I will Cum Iuda traditore Domini in inferno inferiori damnetur and let him be damned with Iudas the traytour in the nethermost hell Phi. There is nothing in this against vs. Theo. You might the better haue rehearsed it But think you that Gregorie did damne men to hel or reserue you that power only to Christ Phi. None can cast body and soule into hell fire but only God Theo. Doth Gregorie take Gods office from him Phi. No but he meaneth to terrifie them with this kinde of curse and praieth it may fal on their heades if they infringe his godly actes Theo. Then as Gregrie had no power to condemne Princes to hel though he threaten it to them no more had he right to depose Princes though he wish their ouerthrow if they frustrate his decrees It is therefore AN IMPRECATION or curse which in the like case the meanest founder that is may lay on the greatest Prince that shall be borne without any iudiciall authoritie It is no depriuation neither prosecuted nor purposed by the Bishop of Rome Phi. He saith Let him be depriued of his dignitie Theo. And know you not that is the optatiue mode by the which Gregorie wisheth and praieth it may come to passe but neither pronounceth nor perfixeth any such iudgement Phi. If it may come to passe then Princes may be deposed Theo. God hath many wayes to displace the mightie from their seats to whom Gregorie praieth for vengeance though the Pope be not the doer Phi. If this bee but a wish euerie doner may doe as much Theo. They be the verie woordes wherewith euerie doner doth strengthen his endowment And euen in this place Gregorie is not alone Thirtie Bishops of diuers cities subscribed to this graunt and curse in the selfe same wordes that Gregorie did Theodoricus the King and Brunichildis the Queene vsed the same manner of subscription that the Bishop of Rome did and the generall comprisement that presently followeth sheweth the wordes that went before to be but curses Omnium maledictionum anathemate let him be loden with al those heauie curses wherewith Infidels and
conscience towards God that is chiefly for religion indure grief and suffer wrong vndeserued If then Peter whom you make the Pillor of your Popedome neither would nor could depriue a poore crafts-man though an infidell or an heretike of his seruaunt or prentize what right can your holy Father now haue to depriue Princes of their crownes for those or any other causes and to absolue their subiectes from all obedience though they woulde yeeld it and haue sworne it That Parentes should loose the regiment and authority which by nature law they haue ouer their children is a late Popes decree which we litle regard not found in the extrauagants as you quote it Cap. â—in but in the Decretals of Sixtus lib. 5. de haereticis cap. 2. and were it to bee founde in ancient imperiall Lawes that heretikes should not bring vp their children for feare of infecting them which we greatly mislike not yet no Law Gods nor mans doth licence the sonne to dishonour relinquish forsweare and murder his father though a Turke or a Saracene as you teach subiectes to vse their Princes Phi. Thus much may as we trust suffice with all reasonable indifferent persons for defence of our brethren Theo. Thus much sufficeth to conuince you of that wherewith you were charged that is with liking labouring perswading and expecting the depriuation and destruction of your naturall and lawfull Soueraigne And since the foundation of your doinges hath neither warrant in the worde of God nor example in the church of Christ for a thowsande yeares as we trust the reader by this time perceiueth but onely dependeth on the late violent and wicked treacheries of Popes swelling with earthly pride and sauoring of filthy gaine who for the readier atchiuing of their interprise began with cursing alwayes ended in sowing seditions menaging rebellions kindling warres allowing periuries vpholding treasons and shaking the frame of the earth with horrible tumults I hope no Christian subiect wil be so vnwise as to beleeue you or so wicked as to follow you seeing you pretend religion defend rebellion come now to the publike patrocination of that which al this while you secretly cloked with cunning and suttle euasions knowing that God is the ordainer of Princes and will be the reuenger of all that presume to displace them or resist theÌ„ he hauing expresly commanded them to be serued obeyed and honoured Phi. It shall not be amisse perhaps to set downe the iudgement and practize of Protestantes in this very case which though it weigh litle or nothing with vs as being altogither both done and spoken of seditious and partiall affection to their heresie and against the lawfull Magistrate of God yet you seeing your own masters against you shall well perceiue that the resisting of Princes and Magistrates in cause of religion as also the subiectes taking armes for their defence in such a case is no way to be accounted treason but most lawfull according to your new Gospell Theo. As for the newnesse of our Gospell we say with Tertullian If Christ were euer and afore all the truth of his Gospell is as auncient and euerlasting Let them therefore looke to themselues to whome that is newe which in it selfe is olde Masters we haue none but Christ neither binde we our selues to the will of any but only of God And though by your owne confession in the next Section before we neede not busie our selues to defende euerie priuate mans writing or action concerning this matter yet least by deprauing the sense and abusing the words of some that neuer spake of the case in question betweene vs you should commend rebellion to the common people as allowed of either side yours and ours in cause of religion I will not be grieued to sitt their sayinges and to consider how far they make with you or against you Phi. First your grand-master Iohn Caluine putteth downe his oracle as a conclusion approued of your whole sect and confraternity in these wordes Abdicant se potestate terreni Principes dum insurgunt contra Deum immo indigni sunt qui censeantur in hominum numero Potius ergo conspuere oportet in illorum capita quam illis parere vbi sic proteruiunt vt velint spoliare Deum suo iure c. Which in english is thus Earthly Princes do bereaue themselues of al authoritie when they do erect themselues against God yea they are vnworthy to be accounted in the number of men and therefore wee must rather spit vppon their heades than obey them when they become so proude or peruerse that they will spoile God of his right and to the same place I further referre the Reader for his instruction Theo. Caluine is so well knowen to those that bee learned or wise for his great paines and good labours in the church of God that a few snarling Friers can not impeach his name though you neuer so wretchedly peruert his wordes Phi. Wee peruert them not we alleadge them as they lie Theo. Caluine in that place speaketh not one word of depriuing of Princes of their Crownes or resisting them with armes but onely sheweth that Daniell did rightly defend himself for not obeying the kinges wicked edict because it was ioyned with the manifest dishonor of God and restraint of his seruice which no king can prohibite By Abdicant se potestate he meaneth not they forfeite their Crownes but that they loose their power to commaunde in those thinges which in other cases that be lawfull they notwithstanding retaine And though the phrase to spit vpon their heades seeme somewhat harde yet the comparison so standing as he maketh it that is whether we were better vtterly to contemne their impious edictes and to defie such sinneful actes to their faces which is ment by spitting at them or else obey them spoyling God of his right and as it were pulling him out of heauen I say we must no way consent to yeelde any regard or reuerence to their idolatrous rage and pride against God This is all that Caluine in vehement wordes as his maner is vrgeth and this is farre from rebelling pursuing Princes with armes as you would haue his wordes to sound Phi. Let the Reader view the place see whether your construction be true or no. Theo. With a good will If you finde one word there of taking or vsing weapon or violence against the king I yeelde the whole For how could any such thing be grounded vpon Daniels example He submitted himselfe to bee cast to the Lions for the breach of the kinges commaundement And when he was mightily deliuered from their iawes by the hand of God all that he said to the king was against thee O king I did no euill meaning in that he serued GOD though the king by his Lawe had prohibited him so to doe for thirtie dayes Upon that Caluine saith Daniell coulde not obey the kinges edict
freshly approue and practise The correction that is here laide on you you euery where amplifie with wordes of the highest and hoattest degree as if it were tyranny to touche the hemmes of your garmentes notwithstanding you seeke to pull the Crowne from the Princes head and teach others to treadde the same path by your example but such is your daintinesse that you offering others fier and sword neuer thinke it sharp enough And tasting no quicker discipline with vs for twentie yeres than the losse of two shillings by the weeke or some restraint of libertie crie out of the greatest persecution and tribulation that euer was since the Gothes and Vandals times We speake of things that are in the eyes and eares of al men what punishment did the Lawes of this realme the first twenty yeres of her maiesties raigne inflict to any recusant for religion but either imprisonment or amercement Which was as easie as you coulde wish till within these sixe or seuen yeeres by the facilitie of the Lawe which you despised your attempts grewe so daungerous that the Prince was forced for the repressing of your audacious aduenture to temper her Lawes with more seueritie You must thanke your selues therefore if this latter affliction seeme some-what heauier till you gaue the onset to put the bull in execution which depriued her highnes of the crowne you were vsed with as much mercy and clemencie as was possible for a Christian prince to afford vnruly subiects whatsoeuer hath since fallen out must bee imputed not to her maiesties inclination whereof you had so good proofe for twenty yeeres but to your wicked and vndutifull affection that were perplexed to see her liue and gouerne in so long happynesse and therefore assayed to shorten her reigne Philand You neuer founde that affection in any Catholike Theoph. Wee neede not search your affections for it you haue made it an open point of your fayth which no Catholique as you teach must denie though the affirming of it shoulde cost him his life Philand What doe wee teach Theo. That if the Pope say the woorde none of your Catholiques within this Realme must obey or accompt her Maiestie for Queene of Englande And because you woulde bee sure to roote this perswasion in the heartes of your adherentes you deliuer it them as a part of their fayth which they must auouche and much more execute notwithstanding any daunger of death that may bee offered Philand Where doe wee teach so Theoph. In the cases of conscience wherewith you furnished the Iesuites that came into Englande There to the 55. article when you bee asked whether notwithstanding the bull of Pius the fifth that was giuen out or any bull that the Bishoppe of Rome can hereafter giue foorth all Catholikes bee bounde to yeelde obedience fayth and loyaltie to Queene Elizabeth as to their lawfull Prince and Soueraigne you make this resolution Qui hoc modo interrogat illud quaerit an id potuerit S. Pontifex facere Cui quaestioni quid debeat Catholicus respondere clarius est quà m vt a me hic explicetur Sirogatur ergo Catholicus credis Romanum Pontificem Elizabetham potuisse exauthorare respondebit non obstante quouis metu mortis credo Quaestio enim haec ad fidem spectat exigit confessionem fidei Hee that demaundeth this question asketh in effect whether the Pope might do it or no. To the which demand what a catholik ought to answere it is plainer than that I need here to explicate If therfore a catholike be asked do you beleeue the Bishoppe of Rome may depriue Queene Elizabeth of her crowne He must answere not regarding any danger of death I beleeue hee may For this question is a point of fayth and requireth the confession of our fayth And your selfe in your defence of English Catholiks say This was the right and power of Saint Gregorie to depriue Princes and this hath beene the fayth of Christian men euer sith our Countrie was conuerted Why then are you so angrie that Iesuites should bee counted traytours since you make treason to be a point of your fayth and religion And howe iust cause hath the Prince to banish you her land vnder payne of death when you doe with this cunning inueighle her subiects to rebell against her Phi. It is no treason to say the Pope may depose Princes Theo. Much lesse is it a poynt of Christian fayth that the Pope may depriue the Queene of her Crowne as you falsly absurdly and traiterously teach Phi. The Pope receiued that power from Christ. Theo. If you did prooue it you had some colour to beleeue it but nowe you require all Catholikes boldly to put that into their Creede which the Pope himselfe for a thousand yeeres was ashamed to professe Phi. Hath hee not the keyes of the kingdome of heauen Theo. But you must prooue hee hath the keyes of all earthly kingdomes Phi. Hee may binde and loose Theo. Sinnes hee may where hee hath charge but no where Scepters Phi. If Princes persist in sinne hee may take their Scepters from them Theo. That is it which all this while you were to prooue you teach that for religion which the woorde of GOD reiecteth for rebellion you imbrace it as pietie which the Church of Christ abhorred as iniquitie Giue to Caesar sayth the sonne of God the thinges which are Caesars The swoorde and scepter are Caesars this therefore is a plaine precept to Peter him-selfe and all other Christians to suffer Caesar to enioy his owne Nowe shewe you an other that you may take from Caesar that which is Caesars When one sayde Master bid my brother diuide the inheritance with mee the Lorde answered man who made mee iudge or diuider ouer you If Christ would not meddle with priuate mens inheritances as being without the compasse of his vocation I pray you who could make the Pope iudge and disposer of Princes crownes Our Sauiour being asked of Pilate what kingdome hee claymed openly auouched my kingdome is not of this world and you by one turne of the keies which he gaue to Peter and the rest of his Apostles would bring all the kingdomes of the woorlde to bee at the Popes appointing S. Augustine assureth Princes by force of these words that they shall not need to feare depriuation of their earthly kingdoms at Christs hands Why enuy you sayth he ye kings Marke enuie not Christ is a king but farre otherwise than you are which sayd my kingdome is not of this world Feare not therfore lest the kingdome of this worlde bee taken from you rather an other kingdome shall bee giuen you and that of heauen where hee is king And so expressely resolueth Kinges ought not to feare lest they loose their kingdome or that their kingdome bee taken from them as wretched Herode feared Which is vtterly against you that make it a point of your fayth for the Pope to take
a matter of more dependence than may bee ouer-ruled with a fewe piked and well couched tearmes You must therefore exactly and directly prooue the Popes authoritie to depose Princes which you shall neuer bee able to doe or else hee for attempting it is the man of sinne exalting him-selfe in the Church of GOD and you for defending and executing the same lacke not many degrees of high and haynous treason The carying of this in your owne heartes and reconciling of others within the realme that they might bee readie to receiue this impression at your mouthes when tyme should serue were the very causes why some of your fellowes tasted of her maiesties iust and prouoked indignation and if it be tyrannie for the Prince to put them to death that lay plottes to haue her crowne and her life and write bookes to auouch it lawful for themselues and all others so to doe when the Pope sayth the word then her highnes hath done you some wrong but if by diuine and humane recordes it bee damnable in the subiect to attempt or abet any such thing and most laudable in the Prince to reuenge the consenter and encourager as well as the doer then for religion hath none of your side beene martyred in England as your shamelesse eloquence would enforce onely some were executed for affirming publishing and furdering the Popes Antichristian power to rule realmes and depriue Princes which you call religion because you would plant it in the peoples hearts with lesse labour and more liking though in deede it be pestilent pride in him and a plaine contempt of God and the Prince in you that should obey Phi. M. Iohn Slade and M. Iohn Body two famous confessours were they not condemned to death in publike iudgement for confessing their fayth of the Popes spiritual soueraigntie and for denying the Queene to bee head of the Church of England or to haue any spirituall regiment and that twise at two diuers sessions a rare case in our countrie the later sentence being to refourme the former as we may gesse in such strange proceedings which they perceiued to bee erroneous and vnsufficient in their owne Lawes Theo. Promotions are rife at Rome you would not else so soone aduance two frowarde and rude companions for masters martyrs Their iudgement was twise giuen not as you peruersly yet after your manner interprete the later to reforme the former as erroneous and vnsufficient but for that they complayned they were drawen afore they were ware and against their wils to vtter speaches against the Princes sworde for which they were condemned the grace mercie of the Prince was such that her highnesse was content they should bee tried the seconde tyme to see whether those words were vnaduisedly and vnwillingly spoken as they pretended or of set mischiefe malice and warned by the Iudge to take good heede and looke wel about thē before they rashly offered themselues to the danger of the Lawes Where if they fell againe openly and lustily to auouch that the Pope was supreme head of the Church of England and consequently the Queene had no right to make lawes as shee had doone but was subiect to the Popes Decrees and censures which is the maine ground of all your rebellion and his presumption who besides you that are yoked in the same cause with them will say they died for religion and not rather for their wilful charging the Prince with vsurpation yeelding the Pope that dominion which hee claimeth ouer kingdomes and you would faine establish with your vntrue surmises Phi. The question of Peters keyes is it not a matter of meere religion Theo. If you draw Princes crownes and swordes within the limits of Peters keyes you leaue religion and hatch rebellion Phi. Yet is it a question whereof diuines do doubt Theo. You may doubt what you list to flatter the Pope but your doubting may not stoppe Princes from defending that which is their owne against the Popes vniust claime and vnlawfull force The Prince striueth not with the Pope neither for the dignitie which hee taketh aboue all Bishoppes nor for the power which hee seeketh to bind and loose sinnes in heauen though therein hee doeth the Church of Christ great wrong and oppresseth his brethren but onely for her right to commaund and punish within her own Realme in ecclesiasticall causes and crimes as well as in temporall which I haue largely prooued euery Prince may within his owne Dominion and for the wrong that her maiestie receiued when shee was depriued of her crowne by him that had no warrant from Christ to disquiet her state or dispose her crown These bee the pointes comprised in her highnes Lawes Against these if your rash and ill aduised brethren woulde runne headlong to their owne perdition when they were admonished by the magistrate to haue better regarde to their wordes they haue the iust rewarde of their vnfaythfull and disloyall heartes and my assertion is true that these two ignorant yet obstinate persons with some others which came not to any particular mention of the Popes bull against the Prince but generally stoode in defence of that power to be good and lawfull from whence the bull proceeded died in the same quarell with the rest that purposely promoted defended and assisted the bull and so can bee no witnesses of Christes trueth and glory which woulde needes cast away their liues for the Popes pride and tyrannie Phi. It is hard dealing to make such trifles treasons Theo. Call you those trifles when Princes shall lose their kingdomes and their people freely rebell and you defende the warres of their owne subiects against them to be iust and honourable by vertue of that power which you attribute to the Pope when you make him head of the Church Had you liued in Saint Augustines dayes you would haue sayde it had beene harder dealing that one word against the Christian Emperours although they were dead shoulde be counted treason Thou doest promise sayth Augustine to Petilian that thou wilt reckon many of our Emperours and iudges WHICH BY PERSECVTING YOV PERISHED and concealing the Emperours thou meanest two Iudges or Deputies Why didst thou not name the Emperours of our cōmunion were thou afraid to bee accused as guiltie OF TREASON where is your courage which feare not to kill your selues To say that Emperours PERISHED FOR PERSECVTING was Treason in his tyme In our age you thinke it much that reproching of Princes as tyrants and heretikes ayding the Pope with your perswasions absolutions rebellions to take their crownes from them should be punished or adiudged Treason Phi. There is no law so rigorous but your diuinitie wil serue you to defend it Theo. What is against your duetie to God and your Prince in that I am a diuine I may iustly debate what punishment the Prince will appoint for such offences as be committed against her neither you nor I haue to doe with it
We may do better to learne obedience than sawcely to check the magistrate for allotting such penalties as we do not like yet this I wil say there is no conspiracie so pernicious and dangerous to the State as that which is secretly crept into the hart vpon a sense of deuotion and outwardly couered with a shew of religion If therfore the Prince seuerely reuenge both your pretences in opinion practises in execution absurdly grounded on Peters keyes and wickedly deriued thence for the remouing of her crowne defacing of her person and diminishing of her right that rigor may wel be defended as comming from iust and lawfull authoritie not without sufficient and euideâ—t necessitie neither can you bring ought against it but onely that you professe it as a point of your Catholique religion not of any sinister or direct intention to hurt her maiestie or any other Christian Prince which is most friuolous false For the Popes authoritie iurisdiction and power lately claymed by him and vsurped within this Realme and since maintained extolled and defended by you and such your adherents as haue suffered death to prescribe Lawes as hee list to commaund Princes and interdict their Realmes yea to depriue them of their crownes absolue their subiects licence rebellions and dispence with the murdering of heretikes as you call them euen of Princes themselues This authoritie iurisdiction and power we deny to bee any doctrine or doubt of Christian religion or to bee so much as once spoken or thought of I say not by the Scriptures which put no difference betweene the Pope and an other Bishoppe but by any father or Councell for a thousande yeeres in the Church of God It was the meere deuise and drift of Antichrist to make himselfe mightie when it was first attempted by Hildebrand and it is nowe coloured by you with the name of religion because you would poyson the people the sooner with that perswasion haue somewhat to say for your selues when you be charged with rebellion and disobedience to the temporall magistrate Phi. Your owne masters and leaders whom I trust you will not condemne for Traytours haue detested the title of Supreme head of the Church in princes as well as wee the Lutherans flatly controling it in generall and Caluin himselfe with all the Puritants much misliking and reprehending the first grant therof to king Henry Why then put you poore men to death for that which your owne side abhorreth Theo. Your brethren were not put to death for denying her maiestie to bee supreme head of Christes Church in Englande in causes ecclesiasticall though one of them for want of trueth or wit did so report at his end and you for lacke of better proofe haue brought his owne woordes spoken in fauour and excuse of himselfe as some worthie witnes No man is compelled by the lawes of this Realme to confesse any such title in the Prince much lesse punishable by death for denying it and therefore your martyr was a Lyer at the houre of his death and either of malice inuerted or of ignorance misdeemed the cause for which he dyed Phi. It is all one to bee head of the Church and to bee chiefe Gouernour in causes ecclesiasticall Theo. They suffered neither for the one nor for the other but for maintaining and defending the iurisdiction and power of the Bishop of Rome heretofore claymed and vsurped in this Realme which generall includeth all your erroneous and trayterous assertions of the Popes power tending no way to religion but only sauouring of the Popes pride to be ruler and displacer of Princes And therfore either proue that claime to pertaine to faith or leaue your vayne presuming and fond discoursing that a number of your brethren haue beene condemned and executed for meere matter of religion Though you list to take that for spirituall which is temporall and cal it religion which in deede is sedition yet your idle multiplying of words and changing of names doeth not conuince your quarrel to bee righteous or the Lawes of this Land to bee tyrannous Shewe that power iurisdiction and authoritâ—e which your holy father hath heretofore claymed and vsed in this realme to bee consonant to the lawes of God or church of Christ for a thousand yeres and wee will yeeld your friends and familiars haue dyed for religion otherwise you do but face out the matter with fierie words to keepe deceiued and simple sâ—ules from suspecting the secrets of your profession As for supreme head of the church it is certaine that title was first transferred from the Pope to king Henry the eight by the Bishops of yoâ—r side not of ours though the pastors in King Edwards time might not wel dislike much lesse disswade the stile of the crowne by reason the king was vnder yeres and so remained vntil he died yet as soone as it pleased God to place her maiestie in her fathers throne the Nobles preachers perceiuing the words head of the church which is Christs proper and peculiar honour to be offensiue to many that had vehemently refelled the same in the Pope besought her highnesse the meaning of that word which her father had vsed might be expressed in some apter plainer termes and so was the Prince called Supreme gouernour of her Realme that is ruler and bearer of the sworde with lawfull authoritie to command and punish answerably to the word of God in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall thinges and causes as well as in temporall And no forraine Prince or prelate to haue any iurisdiction superiority preeminence or authority to establish prohibite correct and chastice with publike lawes or temporall paynes any crimes or causes ecclesiasticall or spirituall within her Realme This Caluin and they of Magdeburge neuer misliked howsoeuer you would seeme to take aduantage of their words Phi. Caluin sayth it is sacrilege and blasphemie Looke you therefore with what consciences you take that othe which your owne master so mightily detesteth Theo. Nay looke you with what faces you alleage Caluin who maketh that stile to be sacrilegious and blasphemous as well in the Pope as in the Prince Reason therefore you receiue or refuse his iudgement in both If it derogate from Christ in the Prince so doeth it in the Pope if it doe not in the Pope as you defend no more doeth it in the Prince Yet we graunt the sense of the word supreme as Caluin conceiued it by Steuen Gardiners answere and behauiour is very blasphemous and iniurious to Christ and his word whether it bee Prince or Pope that so shall vse it For by supreme Caluin vnderstoode a power to do what the Prince woulde in all matters of religion without respect to the will or precepts of God which is a thing most impious Phi. His woordes are They were blasphemers in calling him supreme head of the Church vnder Christ. Theo. They are so but that which goeth before
as you affirme you may but with reuerence and humilitie serue God before the Prince and that is nothing against our oth Phi. Then is not the Prince supreme Theo. Why so Phi. Your selues are superiour when you will serue whom you list Theo. As though to serue God according to his will were to serue whom we list and not whom Princes and all others ought to serue Phi. But you will be iudges when God is well serued and when not Theo. If you can excuse vs before God when you mislead vs we wil serue him as you shall appoint vs otherwise if euerie man shal answere for himselfe good reason he be master of his owne conscience in that which toucheth him so neere and no man shall excuse him for Phi. This is to make euery priuate man supreme iudge of religion Theo. The poorest wretch that is may be supreme Gouernour of his owne hart Princes rule the publike and external actions of their Countries but not the consciences of men and therefure this thwartling is to no purpose Phi. By what authoritie then in the first Parliament of the Queenes highnesse raigne was the determination decision and definition of truethes or of heresies and errors of the true worship of God and the false attributed to that Court of the states no lesse or rather more than to the foure first or any other general Councel to which the deciding of such things is there granted with this limitation so far as they can warrant their doings by the expresse wordes of Canonical Scriptures and no farther but to the Parliament absolutely decreeing at the same time that nothing there determined should be counted heresie errour or schisme what order decree sentence constitution or law so euer were to the contrarie the holy Scriptures themselues not excepted Theo. It is no wonder to see you quarel with the court of the Sates that are so busie with the Princes Crowne And therein as in the former your behauiour doth not change For entring with a manifest vntrueth and keeping on a course of emptie and haughtie wordes which is your glorie you tell vs at length with pride enough that our Lawes be strange and vnnatural dealings proceedings dishonourable to her MAIESTIE and the Realme against Gods expresse commaundement lymiting his constant and permanent trueth to mortall mens willes and fancies violent disorders which to all our posteritie must needes breede shame and rebuke vniust and therefore bind not in conscience repugnant to the dignitie and priuiledges of the Church against the oth of the makers and in deed no Lawes at all the makers lacking competent power authoritie and iurisdiction to proceed iudicially and authentically to heare determine and define 〈◊〉 giue sentence in any such things as be meere ecclesiasticall with a number of those bold and stately bragges hauing neither proofe of your part nor reproofe of ours but only pretending certain legalities quiddities solemnities of humane iudgements which in Gods cause be very ridiculous and in matters of faith more than superfluous For God will not haue his trueth depend either on the numbers or qualities of persons and when his word is offered we may not stand staggering till the Pope and his Cardinals please to assemble and there iudicially and authentically heare and determine what they thinke good which I winne they wil neuer against themselues Christ sent not iudges with iudicial processe but a few disciples with the sound of their voices to conuert the world the Prophetes that taught the people of God and reproued both Priests and Princes vsed no legall nor authenticall proceedings but a bare proposing the will of God to such as woulde beleeue The Kings and Princes before Christ that subuerted Idols and refourmed religion in their realmes relyed on their Princely Power and zeale for the doing of that seruice and not on the ceremoniall and sententiall acts and decrees of Priests or Prophets The Christian Princes take which you will that first receiued and after restored the faith in their Empires and kingdomes tied not them selues to the voices and suffrages of the Clergie that were in present possession of their Churches but often times remoued them without Councel or common consultation You may do well to correct S. Paul where he saith faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God and to adde faith commeth by iudiciall cognition and competent iurisdiction of such as haue legall meanes to deliberate and pronounce of God and his trueth Phi. Would you haue such disorder and confusion suffered in the Church that euery man should follow what he list Theo. I would not haue such presumption or wickednesse brought into the Church that Christ or his worde should be subiected to the wils or voices of mortall men for though the whole world pronounce against him or it God wil be true and all men shall be liars Phi. No more would wee Theo. Why then restraine you trueth to the assemblees and sentences of Popes and Prelats as though they must bee gently entreated and fayrely offered by Christ before he might attempt or shoulde expect to recouer his owne Phi. Wee would haue things done orderly Theo. Call you that order where Christ shall stand without doores till your Clergie consent t◠bring him in Phi. God is not the author of confusion but of peace Theo. It is no confusion for one familie yea for one man to serue God though all the families and men of the same realme besides will not Ioshua sayd to the whole people If it seeme euill vnto you to serue the Lorde choose you this day whome you will serue but I and myne house will serue the Lorde Elias was left alone for any that he sawe willing to serue God in Israel and yet that abated not his zeale Micheas alone opposed him-selfe against foure hundreth Prophetes with what iudiciall authoritie can you tell Ieremie assured the Priests and Prophetes of Ierusalem that God would forsake them and that hee did without any legall meanes that wee can read Amos spared neither Ieroboam the King nor Amaziah the Priest and yet he was but a simple heardman and not so much as the sonne of a Prophet Iohn Baptist had no competent iurisdiction ouer the Scribes and Pharisees that sate in Moses chayre and yet hee condemned them for a generation of vipers The Councels where Peter Steuen Paul and other of the Disciples were conuented accused and punished lacked none of your iudiciall formalities and solemnities and yet the Apostles stoutly resisted and vtterly contemned both their deliberatiue and their definitiue sentences In deede your forefathers assaulted our Sauiour him-selfe with that very question as also they did Iohn before him and the Apostles after him When the Lord was teaching in the temple the chiefe Priestes and the elders of the people came vnto him and sayde by what authoritie doest
persons for that is truely and properly catholike By this rule your erecting adoring of images in the church is not catholike For first it is prohibited by gods law where the text goeth against you the gloze caÌ„not helâ— you If there be no precept for it in the word of god in vaine do you seek in the church for the catholike sense and interpretation of that which is no where found in the Scriptures If it bee not Propheticall nor Apostolical it cannot be catholike nor ecclesiasticall Againe how hath this beene alwaies in the church which was first decreed 780. yeares after Christ It is too yong to bee catholike that began so late you must go neerer Christ his Apostles if you wil haue it catholike or ancient Thirdly al places persons did not admit the decrees of that couÌ„cell For besides Africa Asia the greater which neuer receiued them the churches of England France Germanie did contradict refute both their actions reasons And in Greece it selfe not long before a Synod of 330. Bishops at Constantinople condemned aswel the suffering as reuerencing of images Phi. The most part of this that you say is false the rest we litle regard so loÌ„g as we be sure the church of Rome stood fast with vs. Theo. Al that I said is true as for the church of Rome she can make nothing catholike That the church of England detested that 2. councell of Nice Roger Houeden that liued 400. yeares agoe witnesseth Charles the king of France sent ouer into England the Actes of a Synod sent him from Constantinople Where out alas are found many vnseemely things contrary to the true faith specially for that it is there confirmed with the general assent of all the East teachers to wit of 300. Bishops moe that images ought to be adored the which the church of God vtterly detesteth Against the which Albinus wrote an epistle maruelously grouÌ„ded on the autority of the diuine scriptures caried it with the said Synodical acts in the name of our english Bishops princes to the K. of France Charles two yeares after called a great Synod of the Bishops of Fraunce Italie and Germanie at Franckford where the 2. councell of Nice was reiected and refuted Phi. Nay the councell of Constantinople against images was there reuersed and explosed Theo. Your friendes haue done what they could to make that seeme likely and many of your stories run that way for life but the worst is the men that liued and wrate in that verie age doe marre your plaie Regino saith Pseudo synodus Graecorum quam pro adorandis imaginibus fecerant à Pontificibus reiecta est The false Synode of the Graecians which they made for defence of the worshipping of images was reiected by the Bishops assembled at Franckford vnder Charles Hincmarus Archbishop of Remes then lyuing when these thinges were in freshe memorie saieth thus of Charles his Councell The seuenth general councell so called by the Graecians in deed a wicked councell touching images which some would haue to be broken in peeces some to be worshipped was kept not long before my time by a number of Bishops gathered togither at Nice and sent to Rome which also the Bishop of Rome directed into France Wherfore in the raigne of Charls the great the Sea Apostolike willing it so to bee a generall Synode was kept in Germany by the conuocation of the said Emperour and there by the rule of the Scriptures doctrine of the fathers the false councel of the Graecians was confuted vtterly reiected Of whose confutation tâ—ere was a good big booke sent to Rome by certaine Bishops from Charles which in my yong yeares I read in the Palace Vrspergensis hath bin vnder the file of some monkish deprauer as many other writers fathers haue bin For in him you haue razed out the name of the citie of Nice put in CoÌ„stantinople to make men beleeue the Synod of FraÌ„ckford condemned not the 2. Nicene councel that setled adoration of images but an other of Constantinople that banished images Vrspergensis saieth The Synod which not long before was assembled vnder Irene Constantine her sonne in Constantinople called by them the seuenth generall councell was there in the councell of Franckford reiected by them all as void and not to be named the 7. or any thing else Here some foolish forgerer hath added these words in Constantinople whereas it is euident the councel vnder Irene and Constantine her sonne was kept at Nice not at Constantinople Hincmarus that liued in the time of Charles and read the booke it selfe of the Synode of FraÌ„ckford when it was first made saith the Bishops assembled in Germany by Charles vtterly reiected refuted the councel of Nice called the seuenth generall councell The very same words at Constantinople are in the actes of the councell of FraÌ„kford as LaureÌ„tius Surius saith though very falsly for though that I find in the booke it selfe contrary to the plaine words in many places and namely in the 4. booke 13. chapter where they are refelled from comparing themselues with the 1. Nicene councell because they were assembled in the same city so li. 4. ca. 24. But if the words had bin conueied in as they are not except Surius copie be framed by Surius himself to verifie his own saying what proofe is this that the Synod of Franckford neuer deâ—reed against adoration of Images but rather with it as that mouthie Frier obserueth where the reasons and authorities of the 2. Nicene councell for adoring images are truely and fully refuted throughout those foure bookes And his conclusion that wee haue forged those bookes conueied them into the Popes library where they ly written in auncient characters as the keeper of the Popes library confesseth is like the rest and not vnlike himselfe who careth not what he writeth so it serue his humour and helpe his cause For otherwise who that were master of himselfe would suppose it easier for vs to forge foure whole bookes in Charles name and to write them in auncient handes and thrust them into the Popes librarie and into many other churches and Abbaies and no man spie it than for you hauing the bookes so many hundreth yeares in your keeping to put in this one word Constantinople And if our lucke were so good to forge so neere the Popes nose and not be descried who forged Hinâ—marus Regino Houeden Vrspergensis Adon Auentine and others that testifie the Councell of Frankford refuted the false Synode which the Graecians kept Pro odorandis imaginibus For the adoring of images If you were so negligent as to suffer so many to be forged against you and laide in your libraries you not find it how iust cause haue wee to perswade our selues that you would winke with both eies when others should be corrupted to make for your
Authoritie to witnesse the same For example the worshipping and adoring of Christes Image with diuine honour concluded in your Schooles and practised in your churches is it not a wicked and blasphemous inuention of your owne against all Synodes and Fathers Greeke and Latine olde and newe that euer assembled or taught in the church of God besides your selues The seconde Nicene Councell which first beganne that pernicious pastime of saluting and kissing Images did they not in plaine wordes condemne this errour of yours when they saide 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vni Deo tribuimus diuine honour wee giue to God alone and not to images And againe I receiue and imbrace reuerent images but the adoration which is doone with diuine honor called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I reserue to the supersubstantiall and quickning Trinity onely and to no image Ionas Bishop of Orleans that wrote against Claudius Bishop of Turin in the defence of images 50. yeares after the second Nicene councell did hee not mightily detest your adoration of images as a most heinous errour and was not the whole church of Fraunce by his report of the same minde with him Suffer saith he the images of the Sainctes the histories of holy actions to be painted in the church not that they shold be worshipped but that they may be an ornament to the place and bring the simple to the remembraunce of thinges past Creaturam verò adorari etque aliquid diuinae seruitutis impendi pro nefas ducimus huiúsque scelâ—ris patratorem detestandum anathematizandum libera voce proclamamus But that any creature or Image should be adored or haue any part of diuine honour wee count it a wickednesse and with open voice proclaime the committer of that impiety worthy to bee detested and accursed And prouing by manifold authorities of scriptures and fathers that neither image neither any thing made with handes should be adored he addeth That which you say the worshippers of images answered you for the maintenaÌ„ce of their error we think no diuinity to be in the image which we adore but only in honor of the person whose image it is we worship it with such veneration that answere of theirs we reproue detest as wel as you because they do know there is no diuine thing in the image they be the more blame worthie for bestowing diuine honor on a weake beggarly Image the self same answere many of the East church entangled with this hainous error giue to such as rebuke theÌ„ the Lord of his mercy graÌ„t that yet at leÌ„gth both these and those may bee drawen from this superstition of theirs Fraunce hath Images and suffereth them to stand for the causes which I before rehearsed but they count it a great detestation abomination to haue them adored In this opinion stoode the west Churches a long time till your schoolemen started vp and ouer-ruled Religion with their sophisticall distinctions and solutions and they keeping the wordes of the later Nicene Councell and not marking their drift controled that which they concluded and brought in a lewder and wickeder kind of adoring of Images with the same honor that is due to the Principall The chiefe actor in this was your glorious Sainct and Clerke as you cal him Thomas Aquin who reiecting all that was decreed at Nice inferred against them that no reuerence could be exhibited to the Image of Christ in that it was a thing grauen or painted because reuerence is due to none but to a reasonable creature and alleaging Aristotles authoritie that the motion to the Image and originall is all one he resolueth in these wordes Cum Christus adoretur adoratione latriae consequens est quod eius imago sit adoratione latriae adoranda Since then Christ is adored with diuine honour it followeth that his Image must likewise be adored with the self-same diuine honour Bonauenture an other of your Romish Sainctes canonized by Sixtus the fourth goeth after Thomas with full saile Quin Imago Christi introducta est ad repraesentandum eum qui pro nobis Crucifixus est nec affert se nobis pro se sed pro illo ideo omnis reuerentia quae ei offertur exhibitur Christo propterea Imagini Christi debet cultus latriae exhiberi Whereas the Image of Christ representeth him that was crucified for vs and offereth it selfe vnto vs not for it self but for him in that respect all the reuerence which is giuen to it is done to Christ and therefore the Image of Christ must be honored with diuine adoration Holcote and Gerson somwhat disliked this assertion and disputed against it but the pronesse of the people to follow such fancies the greedines of Priestes and other religious persons to keepe and increase their offerings and the credite of Thomas his learning Sainctship and sectaries bare such a sway in the Church of Rome that the rest coulde not bee regarded nor heard and so the common opinion and resolution of your Churches and schooles as the fortresse of your faith confesseth was that the image of Christ should be worshipped with diuine honor whâ—ch you would faine shrinke from in our dayes the doctrine being both strange and wicked if you could tell howe but that the wordes are so plaine that no pretence can colour them Your schoole doctrine therefore of adoring images with diuine honour not onely prohibited by the law of God and abhorred of all ancient and Catholike fathers but euen renounced in the second Nicene councell as repugnant to truth and shunned in the West church for a thowsande yeares after Christ and vpwarde as a most wicked errour howe coulde it on the suddaine with a sillie distinction of sundrie respectes become catholike what greater wickednes can there be than to giue the honor of God to stockes and stones and to say you do it not in regard of the matter but of the resemblance which the image hath to the originall as though it could be an image vnlesse it had some resemblance either in deed or in our opinion to the thing it selfe or man were not a truer better image of God and yet in no respect to be adored with diuine honor or as if God prohibiting all images made with hands to be adored had not included as well their resemblance as their matter Why may not any Pagan by this euasion worship what creature he will say he beholdeth honoreth in it not the matter but the wisedome power of the Creator And what other conceit is this than that which the Iewish heathenish Idolaters when they were reproued answered that they adored not the thinges which they saw but conueied their adoration by the image to him that was inuisible If such prophane speculations may be suffered in Gods cause wee may soone delude all that GOD hath commanded with one respect or other The
full consent of all ages and Churches in expounding the same but also to chase the people by terror of secular power and ecclesiasticall curse from the cup of their saluation from the communion of Christs blood and felowship of his holy spirit Such fathers such fansies What is mockerie what is iniurie to God and man if this be Religion or pietie The Church of Rome you will say concluded with them That increaseth her sinnes and excuseth not their follies If an Angel from heauen had conspired with them our duetie bindeth vs to detest both him and them as accursed if they step from that which the primatiue church receiued from Paul and Paul from Christ Howe much more then ought wee to reiect that which the church of Rome presumeth not onely besides but against the sacred scriptures And yet to speake vprightly the auncient church of Rome maketh wholy with vs in this cause For no church euer resisted your mangled communions with greater vehemencie than the church of Rome did till couetousnesse and pride blinded her eyes and hardned her heart against God and his sonne Pope Iulius that lyued vnder Constantine the great made this decree We heare that certaine led with schismaticall ambition against the diuine ordinances and Apostolike directions doe giue TO THE PEOPLE the Eucharist dipped in wyne for a full communion They receiued not this from the Gospell where Christ betooke his body and blood to the Disciples For there is recited the deliuering the bread by it selfe and the cup by it selfe Let therefore all such error and presumption cease least inordinate and peruerse diuises weaken the soundnes of fayth If the communion bee neither perfite nor agreeable to Christes institution and Apostolike prescription except the people receiue both kinds seuerall and asunder the bread from the cup and the cup from the bread as Christ ordayned and the Gospel declareth Ergo your excluding the people cleane from the cup is altogether repugnant to the manifest intent of our Sauiour and right imitation of his Apostles And what if the first authors of your drie communion were the Manichees are you not wise men and well promoted to forsake the precept which Christ gaue you the president which Paul left you the course which the christian world for so many yeeres obserued and followe so pestilent and pernicious a sect of heretikes reprooued and long since condemned by the church of Rome for that very fraude and abuse in the Sacraments which you bee nowe fallen vnto The Manichees sayth Leo to couer their infidelitie venter to bee present at our mysteries and so carie them-selues in the receiuing of the Sacraments for their more safetie that they take the body of Christ with an vnwoorthy mouth but in any wise they shunne to drinke the blood of our redemption Which I would haue your dâ—uoutnes speaking to the people learne for this cause that such men might bee knowen to you by these markes and when their sacrilegious simulation is founde they may bee noted and bewrayed by the Godly that they may bee chased away by the priestly power Against this disorder of Manichees wrate Pope Gelasâ—â— as your friende Master Harding confesseth Wee haue intelligence that certaine men receiuing onely a portion of the sanctified body abstaine from the cup of the sacred blood who for that it appeareth they be entangled with I knowe not what superstition let them either receiue the whole Sacraments or be driuen from the whole because the diuiding and parting of one and the same mysterie can not bee without grieuous sacrilege The sense is plaine To take the Lordes breade and not drinke of the Lordes cup is a seuering and distracting of this mysterie which by the iudgement of these two Popes is open sacrilege ergo neither Catholike or christian What shift nâ—we Philander to saue your selues from sacrilege Spake Gelasius of the Manichees as Master Harding resolueth Graunt it were so Then what was sacrilege in them can it bee catholike in you If that auncient church of Rome condenmed this in the Manichees howe commeth your late Church of Rome not onely to suffer but also to commaund the same Can you turne darkâ—nes to light and sacrilege to Religion That were a marueilous alteration But Siâ—s your minds may change wee knowe Christes institution can not changâ— The contempt thereof in Manichees in Papistes as then so still was and will be sacrilege Spake Gelasius not of the Manichees but of certaine Priestes that receiuing the bread at the Lordes table neglected the cup Yet Leo speaketh of the Manichees by name and â—hose Laymen and mingled with the people and calleth their forbearing the Lords blood a sacrilegious sleight reason were you should prooue that onely Priesâ—es are ment in this place of Gelasius and not suppose what you list at your pleasures as the gloze doeth and others of your side that stand on this answere The woordes are indefinite and touch as well people as Priest but let vs imagine that Gelasius spake of Priestes first then you commit sacrilege in restraining all Priestes from the communion of both kinds except they say Masse themsâ—lues Next if it bee sacrilege in the Priest why not in the people The precept of our Sauiour drinke ye all of this compriseth all both Laymen and Priestes His Apostle extendeth the same to the whole Church of Corinth Chrysostome sayth the Priest differeth nothing from the people in receiuing the mysteries but one cup is proposed to al In Chalice nobiscum vos estis You sayth Austen to the people are in the Lordes cup no lesse than we The cup was deliuered to all men Priest and people with like condition as Theophilact affiâ—meth Drinke yee all of this that is sayth Paschasius as well other beleuers as Ministers Hence wee frame you this argument The cup was by Christ deliuered to Priest and People with like condition and like precept the refusing of the Lordes cup is sacrilege in priests by the position of Gelasius and the confession of your friends it is therefore no lesse than sacrilege for the people to refraine the same What then is it for you to pull the Lordes cuppe out of their handes by rigor and force for so trifling respectes as you pretende but apparent violent and wilfull sacrilege Phi. It was sacrilege then for the people to refuse or refraine the cup because the church was content to admitte them to it But now the church is otherwise resolued it were sacrilege to expect or demand it Theo. What shall the man of sinne and sonne of perdition when he commeth if hee bee not already come and you his supporters to hold vp his seate in the temple of God say more than you now say that you at your lists may breake the commandements of the great and euerlasting God and alter his ordinances and to blame you for
dipped his hands in his brothers bloode nor take the wages of Balaam to curse and reuile the people of God nor perish in the contradiction of Corah for resisting both God and the Magistrate but rather that wee may be sanctified and saued by the might of his word and store of his mercy laid vp in Christ his sonne for all that beleeue him and call vpon him Phi. God send vs such part as our fathers had Theo. You be so displeased with God for punishing the sinnes of your fathers with blindnes and error in these later ages that now you will none of his light nor grace though he offer it freely to saue your soules but if you will needes perish your owne bloode be on your owne heades yet haue vs excused if we thinke our sinnes heauie enough though wee adde not thereto the neglect of his worde and contempt of his trueth as you doe In the knowledge of God and reuerence of his iudgements there is a path way to repentaunce and hope of mercy in the proude dislike of his seueritie towards others and sâ—ubberne refusall of his goodnes towards our selues there is nothing but an heaping of extreme vengeaunce which shall consume the wicked and impenitent resisters of his word and spirit Phi. We be not of that number Theo. Were you not you would be more carefull to search and willing to embrace the trueth of Christ once vnderstoode with all readines and lowlines of minde knowing that God resisteth the proud and giueth grace to the humble and not with an high-looking and self-pleasing perswasion that all is yours neglect your duty to God and man Phi. We obserue both Theo. You obserue neither Subiection to your lawfull Prince you haue forsaken and not onely fledde the Realme and incited others to doe the like but the Christian alleageance which the Prince requireth of her subiects you impugne with shifts and slaunders in fauoâ—r of him who wickedly and iniuriously taketh vpon him to be the supreme Moderator of earthly kingdomes chiefe disposer of princes Crowns and so fast are you lincked in confederacie with him that in open view of all men you will allow no Prince to beare the sword longer than shall like him but proclaime rebellions of subiects against their Soueraignes to be iust honorable warres if he authorize them by his Censures And where to cloake your wicked and enormous attempts you boldely surmised that you did whatsoeuer you did for that Religion which was ancient Catholike we haue presently taken you so tardie short of your reckoning that for sixe of the greatest and cheefest points now in question betwixt the Church of England and the Church of Rome and reformed in this Realme by publike authoritie you cannot bring vs so much as one ancient euident testimony that your faith and Doctrine was euer taught or receiued in the primatiue church of christ and yet you please your selues in your owm conceits and compasse the earth to get prosilites fit for such teachers whom you may traine vp in error and vse as instruments to catch vnstable soules and fier vnquiet heades that you by them may disturbe realmes and fishe for Princes thrones and liues in troubled waters Phi. All this is as false as God is true Theo. God himselfe shall skant be trueth if you may be the iudges except hee take your parts But facing and craking laid aside you must referre the iudgement of your doings and sayings to others and not to your selues Phi. To Catholikes I am content The. They must be then of your instructing that is such as will trust neither fathers nor Scriptures against your Canons otherwise in that you haue saide they shall find no great cause to like your impugning the Princes power right to establish Lawes within her owne lande without the Popes leaue and to hold her Crowne against his censures and as litle shall they find to cal you or count you Catholikes Phi. Men of your own pitch will soone assent to any thing Theo. Let them be but indifferent and weigh what you haue brought Phi. More we can bring when we see our times The It skilleth not how much but how sound that is which you can bring Phi. Of that hereafter and yet in the meane time there be many other thinges besides these that you haue handled that must be discussed before we can be pronounced no Catholikes And as in these you seeeme with wresting and wrenching to haue some aduantage so in those we could forthwith confound you The. Euen as you haue doone in these Phi. A great deale more readily if I had time to stay the triall of them but this holy tide I must spend in other matters of more importance Theo. What In spredding newes that the king of Spain doth stay but for the next summer Phi. We meddle not with forraine affaires Theo. A number of you be better seene in policie than in diuinitie you were borne belike to be rulers though it be but of Rebels as Sanders was that thought it a praise to take the field in person against his Prince Phi. My trauell is not to that end Theo. You leaue that for others and trauel to sound the harts of your adherents whether they be in number welth and zeale likely and readie to giue assistance if any should inuade Phi. What vnchristian coniectures you haue of vs Theo. None but such as your owne deedes and wordes occasion Phi What cause haue we giuen you to speake this of vs Theo. What greater cause can you giue than openly to auouch as you haue done in your Defence of Catholiks as you call them yâ— rebellions against such Princes as the Pope deposeth are godly iust honourable wars Phi. If hee may depose them they are Theo. You haue in print affirmed both and sought to proue them with all your might and therefore what shal we thinke your secret whispering and reconâ—ling to the Church of Rome is but a craftie bayte of Malcontentes to make rebels Phi. The parties themselues can witnesse we neuer mention any such thing in our absolution To them we appeale for record Theo. For my part I thinke you doe not It were too grosse conspiracie treason to take vowes and oths of subiects against their Prince by name and therefore if you should take that open course you were worthie to ride to Tyburne not only for traytors but also for disards But when you reconcile them you take assurance of them by vow oth or other adiuration that they shall embrace the Catholike faith and hold Communion vnitie with the Church of Rome for euer after Phi. Why should we not Theo. Then when it pleaseth my Lord the Pope to depriue the Prince and to excommunicate al that assist or agnise her for a lawfull magistrate what must your reconciled sort doe Is it not against their oth faith giuen to you at their restitution to
Apostata 403 The Church of Christ wanted no forces to resist 404. 406 Christes church obayed wicked Princes for conscience sake 405 Leo the third was denied his reuenues in Italy but not depriued by the pope 408 The pope did not appeare in this rebellion of Italy against Leo. 409 The diuision of the Empire was not for religion 412 Their owne stories doe not pretend religion for the diuision of the Empire 413 The diuision of the Empire 416 Platina reproued 417 Who deposed Childericke 418 Childericke deposed for a foole 419 Wauering about Pipines title 421 Philippicus reiected as a rebell 421 Lewes the third 422 The line of Pipine ended 423 An other change of the Empire 423 The pope gained by rolling the Empire to and fro 424 Henry the fourth 424 Pope Hildebrand attempting to depriue Henry the fourth 425 The Iesuits commend HildebraÌ„d to the skies for fitting their rebellious humor 426 Hildebrand Henry the fourth 428 Spitesul slaunders of the Iesuites against Henry the fourth 430 Hildebrands vertues by the confession of his own countrimeÌ„ and Cardinals 431 Hildebrand fauoured of Moncks for taking their part against maâ—ied priests 433 Hildebrandes vndermining HeÌ„ry the fourth 433 The true causes of Henryes excommunication 434 Henry the fourth no Symonistâ— 435 The Moncks to flatter the pope diffame the prince for symonie 436 What Hildebrand ment by Simonie 437 The Princes consent for placing of Bishops was no simony 437 The Pope sought vniust quarels against Henry the fourth 438 The prince not bouÌ„d to the popes penaunces 440 Hildebrands successe 441 Hildebrand the first that offered depriuation to Princes 441 The Romish art to weary princes 442 The â—on dâ—splaceth the father 443 Hildebrand and Boleslaus 444 Princes not punishable by Priests 445. Adrian Frederick the first 446 Fredericâ—s aunswer to the Popes letter â— 447 Adrian conspireth against Frederick 447 The Pope conspireth against the Emperour 448 Alexander made Pope by the coÌ„spirators against Victor 449 Alexanders election not good 450 Frederick tyred by the Popes practises 451 The Popes foote in the Princes neck 451 Honorius Frederick the 2. 452 The Popes quarrels against Frederick the second 453 The lewdnes of Gregorie the 9. against Frederick the secoÌ„d 454 The Italian stories spitefully pursue those Princesse that withstood the Pope 456 Fredericks peace with the Turke could not iustly be disliked 457 The Pope hath beene the ruine of both Empires 458 The Pope crossigned Souldiers against Frederick as against a Turke 459 The second quarrell between Frederick and the Bishop of Rome 460 The Pope nourisheth rebellion against Frederick 461 And to help the matter deposeth him 462 The causes of his deposition examined 462 The censure of Innocentius against Frederick 463 Fredericks right to the kingdome of Sicily 464 The Popes proceedinges against Frederick 465 The whole west Church in an vproare about the deposing of Princes 466 Eberhards oration against the Pope for presuming to depose Princes 467 Frederick poisoned and stifled in his bed 468 Lodouike the fourth and Iohn the 22. 469 Germany taketh part with Lodouike against Pope Iohn 470 The Pope maketh it heresie to mislike his pride or his wealth 471 What submisâ—ion the Pope required of Lodouike 472 The Germanes sweare obedience to Lodouike for all his deposition 473 King Iohn of this Realme 474 King Iohn pursued by the pope for standing in his owne right 475 To interdict whole Realmes for one mans offence is vnchristian policy 476 The Byshops of England eger to haue King Iohn deposed 477 The discord of Princes exalted the Pope 478 The french King finely cousened by the Pope 478 King Iohn the Popes farmor 479 King Iohn could not bind his successour 479 The Nobles lament the seruitude of this Realme 480 George King of Bohemia molested by the Popes censures 481 Half the kingdom of Nauarre surprised by the Spanish King 482 Thomas Becket an arrogant resister of his Prince 483 Princes brought vnder the Popes feet by their own dissension 484 The Kings of France ouerreached the Pope 485 The stirre betweene Philip of Sweueland Otho the 5. 486 The Emperour taketh his farewel of Italy by selling al he had both there and elsewhere 487 These tragicall vprores prooue no right in the Pope to depose Princes 488 The Iesuits mistake an imprecatioÌ„ in Gregory for a depriuatioÌ„ 489 The Realme neuer conâ—esâ—ed the Popes power to depriue princes 490 Iesuits within compasse of treason by the auncient lawes of this land 491 Treason to aide the Pope against the Queene by the statute of Edward the third 492 The Commons â—ide their King against the Pope 493 The King of Englands othe 493 The Patriarches of Constantinople deposed no Princes 494 The people might couenaunt in their elections 494 Zimisces an vsurper a murderer 496 A seditious Patriarck liuing at the same time with Hildebrand 497 Baptisme bindeth no Prince to the â—opes depriuation 498 Byshops may not prescribe conditions to Princes 498 They haue no power to prescribe conditions to Princes 499 Princes not depriuable by the Pope 500 Wicked reasons of the Iesuits for the depriuing of Princes 501 Christians may not kill tyrantes though Heathens did so 502 The Pope his Cardinals woorse than Heathen 503 The Cardinals letter for the killing of the Queene 503 Murdering of princes mainteined by the Iesuits 504 The princes life is sought for by their warres for religion 505 Obedience to Christ forceth vs to no rebellion against the prince 506. Princes appoint paines for others not for themselues 507 Caluins name falsely pretended for rebellioÌ„ against princes 509 Beza doth not allowe subiects to displace their prince 510 The Nobles of Fraunce might lawfullie defend themselues against the Guise 511 Pâ—iuate men may not beare arms against a tyrant 512 Zuinglius woordes concerne not our case 513 Zuinglius aloweth no man to vse violence to tyrants 514 Succession established by God himselfe 515 Goodman and Knokes 516 Luther did not alow rebellion against Princes 517 The Germanes no Rebels in desending their libertie 518 The Iesuits case not like the Germanes 518 The Iesuits obiect they care not what 519 The lawes sometimes permit resistaunce 520 The stirres of Germany Flaunders Fraunce Scotland 521 The manifold rebellioÌ„s of papists 522 The Iesuits treasons 522 Complaint of persecution 522 Treason made religion by the Iesuits 523 Deposition of Princes is against religion 524 Pastours haue no power to compell 526 Death inflicted in England not for religion but rebellion 527 The power which the Pope claimeth is no point of religioÌ„ 528 Peters keyes abused to colour the Popes tyranny 529 Supreme heade misliked by some of the Germans 530 Supreme head mistaken by wrong information 631 Supreme head not vrged by vs. 532 The Magistrate no gouernour of the conscience 533 Where God commaundeth there no authorite wanteth 534 Trueth is authoritie sufficient against all the world 535 One man with trueth is a warrant against all the world 536.
vmitate Ecclesiae Peter the first stone that Christ laid in the foundatioÌ„ of his church Cyprian de vmitate Ecclesiae Exordium and fundamentum all one Peter at this day lieth in the foundation of the church where Christ placed him Galat. 4. Ephes. 2. Heb. 12. Chalcedonens concilij actio 1. Leo tooke Theodoretes part against Dioscorus Euagrius lib. 1. cap. 10. Leo Epist. 61. ad TheodoretuÌ„ Chalcedonens Concilij actio 8. Their examples proue the Bishop of Rome had no such power as he now claimeth The Pope besought the Emperour with sighes teares for a Councel and could not preuaile In all these examples the Bishop of Rome neuer so much as alleadged or mentioned his vniuersall power which your Iesuites defend As the Bishop of Rome resisted others so others resisted him Who they were that resisted the Bishop of Rome Galat. 2. Ibidem Paul resisting Peter that after his installation at Rome if the Romish account be true which most men doubt Euseb. Chronic. in anno 44. Galat. 2. The Papistes make Peter a Nonresident Rhemish annor in Epi. ad Gal. cap. 2. vers 11. Whether Paul might resist Peter is an vngodly doubt Polycarpus withstood Anicetus for the obseruation of Easter Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 26. Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 25. Polycrates withstood Victor for the same cause Ibidem A great multitude of Bishops with Polycrates against Victor Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 26. Victor reproued by his owne side for offering to excommunicate the churches of Asia that stood against him Cyprian lib. 1. Epist. 4. Cyprian Epist. ad Pompeium contra Epist. Stephan CypriaÌ„s stoutnesse against Stephanus Bishop of Rome Ibidem Cyprian in an ill cause resisting the Bishop of Rome did and doth go for a Martyr and father of the church Flauianus withstood 4. Bishops of Rome though their cause were not much amisse Sozom. lib. 7. cap. 3. Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 23. Who tooke part with Flauianus against the Bishops of Rome The Prince willeth Flauianus to keepe his Church though foure Popes for 17. yeares togither impugned him Ibidem Ibidem Nice lib. 14. cap. 27. Cyrill esteemed not the communion of the Bishop of Rome Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 34. Those resistances were offered not by priuate persons but by Councels and Countries Euseb. lib. 5. Cap. 24. 25. Ibidem Cap. 26. Concil Cartha de haeret baptisandis inter opera Cypriani Sozome lib. 7. Cap. 11. Theodoret. li. 5. Cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 6. Cap. 18. The sixt couÌ„cel of Carthage stoutly resisted the Bishop of Rome and conuinced him of forgery Vide Concilium Carthaginense sextum Cap. 3. Bonifacius saith the diuelled Saint Augustine the rest to be sawcie with the Bishop of Rome Bonifacius secundus ad Eulalium de reconcilia Carthaginens Eccl. Concilio tomo 1. Aphric concilij Cap. 92. Appeales to Rome condemned by Saint August and his Collegues Aphric concil Cap. 101. Aphric concil Cap. 105. The fathers neuer heard of Christs vicar general Where then are appeales to Rome The holy Ghost as wel â—â— one proâ—â—ace as in 〈◊〉 The Councel of Nice corrupted by the Bishop of Rome The Popes claime called the smokie pride of the world What the Councel of Africa denied to the Bishop of Rome Was this resisted or no Epist. Aegiptiorum ad MarcuÌ„ pro exempla Niceni Concilij tomo Conciliorum 1. The Papists to saue the Popes credit haue coÌ„mitted shameful forgeries Rescriptum Iulij contra orientales pro Athanasio And he a wise man to chose the worst Episto Africani conci ad Bonif. Cap. 101. No decretals can discredit the diligence of the African Bishops Concilium Carthaginense sextum Cap. 9. Concilij Afric Cap. 102. 103. Their Decretales are too yong to out-face the authenticke copies Ruffin lib. 1. Cap. 6. The Popes silence then conuinceth this forgerie since Marke the likelihoode of this fable and see the shamefastnes of Papists that mocke the worlde with them Extat Socratis lib. 1. Cap. 9. The Canons burnt before they were made Sozome lib. 1. Cap. 17. Beda distinc 16. sexta Sozom. lib. 3. Cap. 1. Athanas. not neere Aegypt when this letter was written thence in his name Rescriptuuâ— Marci Athanasio Aegyptijs Vide Sozome lib. 1. Cap. 25. 28. Concil Africa Cap. 102. An other forgerie vnder Iulius name worse than the former Rescript Iulij ad Orientales Cap. 29. The Papists haue forged a decretal in Iulius name where as his true letter is extant in Athanasius Apologie Socrat. lib. 1. Cap. 40. A man may feele this forgerie with his fingers Sozome lib. 3. Cap. 5. Athanasij Apologia 2. The first dated Calend. Octobris the second calend Nouembris the same yeare Euagâ— li. 1. ca. 4. Theodoret against the Popes deputy The Legats of Rome threatned by the first Ephesine Councel In Apologet. Cyril mandatuÌ„ Synod Ephesâ— Vide concilij Chalcedonens actioneÌ„ 16. The great councel of Chalcedon ouerruleth the Bishop of Rome Actio 16 concil Chalcedonen The Popes Legates could not then commaund in general couÌ„cels The Councel of Chalcedon proceeding without the Romish Legates Chalcedo CoÌ„cil cano 28. actio 15. repetitur actio 16. For what cause Rome had the supremacie giuen her Why Leo was so earnest against this Canon The Romish Legates their allegations reiected the second time in the Councel of Chalcedon EiusdeÌ„ Concilij â—câ—io 16. The selfsame priuileges that Rome had giuen to Constantinople The Pope had no negatiue in Councels Canons made in Counceles mauger the Bishop of Rome his legates Liberatus Cap. 13. Concilij sexti Constantinop Cap. 36. How the Popes law vseth ancient customes Distinct. 22. Renouantes A monsterous corruption of a councel turning an affirmatiue into a negatiue Africani concil Cap. 92. The Canon law glozeth the Councell of African quite against the text Caus. 2. quaest 6. placuit Saint Austen forged to make the Popes decretals of equall authoritie with the scriptures De doctrina Christiana lib. 2. Cap. 8. Distinct. 19. In canonicis Rubricae Ibidem Glosa Ibidem The britanes 4000 yeare agoe woulde yeelde no subiection to the Popes legate Beda lib. 2. Cap. 2. Bed histo gentis Anglorum lib. 2. Cap. 2. Galfrid monemutens lib. 8. Cap. 4. 1200 monks in one time chose rather to die than to be subiect to the Bishop of Rome Concili Laterae sub Innocentio 3 Cap. 4 The Grecians detesting the Bishop of Rome Paul Aemil. in Philippo 4. Idem Aeneas Syluius lib. 9. epitomes in decades Blondi Sessio vltima Florentiae in literis vnionis Graecorum responsio in vltima sessione Florentiae Platina in Eugenio 4. Luitprand li. 6. Cap. 10. Ibidem Cap. 7. The germans against the Bishop of Rome Platina in Gregorio 6. Cronicon Abba Vrspergensis Ibidem anno 1080. This was he that first ventred to depose Princes Ibidem anno 1083. The Romans reiected him as wel as the Germans did Platina in Gregorio 7. The later Italians make Hildebrand a Sainct for
Rom. 15. How kinges must serue the Lord and Christ his sonne Psalm 2. Aug. contra literas Petilia lib. 2. cap. 92. Idem contra Cresconium lib. ◠cap. 51. The church shall suck the brestes of kinges The milke of princes is not temporall wealth August epi. 50. Idem contra 2. Gaudenij epist. lib. 2. cap. 11. Idem contrae Epist. Parmen lib. 1. cap. 7. The Prince charged to punish false and corrupt religion * Read on the place contra epist. Parmen lib. 1. cap. 7. Compell them to come in spoken to the magistrates Luke 14. Aug. contra 2. Gaudent Epist. lib. 2. cap. 17. Mat. 21. 1. Corinth 10. 2. Tim. 2. Mat. 24. Tit. 1. Mat. 20. 2. Pet. 5. Luke 14. August Ep. 50. Idem contra 2. Gaundentij epist. lib. 2. cap. 17. Idem Epist. 48. Idem Epist. 50. Idem Epist. 48. The Princes charge as the scriptures do expresse it Al these things must bee done in euery christiā cōmō wealth and who shall do them but the Prince August contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51. Christian Princes from the beginning haue delt in causes ecclesiasticall Socrat. in prooemio lib. 5. Alciatus incodicem rubric de sacrosanct ecclesijs tomo 3. pag. 198. Constantines example Euseb. hist. lib. 10. cap. 5. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 2. cap. 28. Socrat. lib. 10. cap. 34. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 1. cap. 37. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 13. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 22. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 28. Euseb. de vita Constan. lib. 4. cap. 42. Athanas. Apol. 2. cap. Quum multas Athanasius and his side appeale from the councel to the prince Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 34. The Councell of Tyrus commanded to come before the Prince giue account of their doings What Constantine did in Athanasius his cause Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. The restoring of Arius Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 25. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. Constantine threatneth Athanasius for not receiuing Arius Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 37. 31. Ibidem lib. 1. cap. 38. The Prince cōmaundeth the Patriarke to receiue Arius to the cōmunion Codi lib. 1. tit 1.6.2.3 Tit. 5.7.9.11 Nouel constitut 57.37 42.123 Nouel constit 123.131 Nouel constit 5. 131.3.67.79 Nouel constit 123.133 Nouel const 6. 123. Nouel constitutione 123. Nouel constit 123. The prince receaueth information cōmaundeth correction Nouell constitutione 6. The doctrine discipline of the church must be the Princes cheefest care The Bishops Patriarks of euerie diocesse cōmaūded and threatned Nouel Constitut 5. Nouel Constitut 133. The Prince soueraigne ouer all men and that in things cōcerning God which must be preserued from corruption by the prelates but most of all by the Prince The things were then in the Princes charge which the Pope now tieth to spiritual courtes Careli praefa in leges Franciae The preface of Charles to his lawes directing commissioners to reforme the Church in his name and by vertue of his authoritie Legū Franciae li. 1. Cap. 1.2.3 Cap. 23. Chap. 49.25 Cap. 11. Cap. 57.45 Cap. 13. Cap. 6. Cap. 20. Cap. 41. Cap. 15. Cap. 160. Chap. 76. Cap. 76. Ibidem Ibidem Ibidem Cap. 66. Cap. 132. Cap. 147. Cap. 73. Cap. 155. Cap. 75. Cap. 139. Cap. 158. Cap. 74. Cap. 78. Cap. 103. Cap. 129. Cap. 128. Cap. 130. Cap. 131. Cap. 141. Cap. 136. Cap. 86. Cap. 67. Cap. 79. Cap. 81. Cap. 110. Cap. 71. Cap. 62. Cap. 163. Cap. 116. The Prince visiteth and cōmaundeth for ecclesiastical rules and discipline Cap. 104. The Prince promiseth by the aduise of his faithful determinatiō for such ecclesiasticall matters as were not expressed in his chapters Charles by his lawes rectified al ecclesiasticall things and causes If any wanted he promised at his leisure to supply that defect His sonne his nephew followed his steps and executed his lawes Legion franciae lib. 2. Cap. 1. Cap. 2. Cap. 3. The cheefe of this ministerie consisteth in the princes person to whom the Bishops are coadiutors Cap. 12. Cap. 11. The Prince willeth all without exception to obserue his commaundements in all things as well ecclesiastical as temporal Cap. 26. Bishops to be reformed by the Kings visitours Cap. 27. The kings decrees touching all things and causes to be obserued of all men Chap. 28. The first part of the Princes commission concerned religion and ecclesiastical order Legū Franciae Cap. 12. Cap. 26. Cap. 28. Cap. 11. What lacketh this of gouerning al men in al matters both ecclesiasticall and ciuil Supreme is not superiour to Christ but not subiect to the Pope The superlatiue includeth not God because God with man is not cōpared 1. Pet. 2. Tit. 3. Rom. 1. Cap. 13. Cap. The saints on earth are subiect to the Princes sword the graces of God are not The Church cōfessed princes to be subiect to none but to God Tertul. ad Scapulam Idem in Apologetico Contra Parmenian lib. 3. Ad Populū antioch homil 2. Superiour to al is subiect to none Ad popu Ant. homil 2. Nouel const 133. De obitu Theodosij Greg. epist. li. 3. ca. 100. cap. 103. The word supreme was added to set Princes at libertie from the Pope and that is it that so much offēdeth the Iesuites They must proue Princes to be subiect to the Pope we need not proue them to be free The Bishops of Rome for 300. yeres endured heathē Princes Martin Polon in Iulio Liberio Platina in Bonifacio I. Martin Polon in Syluer Vigil Martino I. Caus. 2. quaest 7. Cap. Nossi The popes submission to the Emperour Ibidem Cap. Perrus A lewd elusiō of Gratian. The Prince superior to the Pope euē in causes ecclesiastical The quarel between Donatus Cecilian Lib. 10. Cap. 5. Lib. 1. contra Parmenianum epist. 162.166 alibi This quarell was forthings causes spiritual Constantine superior to Meltiades Euseb. lib. 10. Cap. 5. The Pope with others were authorized by the Prince to heare this cause August epist. 162. Epist. 166. Constantine himself would not at first fit iudge in the cause for want of skill August epist. 166. Cellatio 3. dici cum Donatistis The Prince receiued an appeale from the Pope Euseb. li. 10. Cap. 5. August epist. 166. And gaue thē other Iudges after the Pope August epist. 166. The Prince sate himselfe in iudgement both after the Pope and after the Councel Idem epist. 162. Idem contra Crescon lib. 3 Cap. 17. August epist. 166. The Prince made a penal law to confirme his finall decision Ibidem The Prince in these foure facts superior to the Pope The Prince willeth Flauianus to keepe his Church after foure Popes had repelled him for no Bishop Theodor. lib. 5. cap. 23. Sozom. lib. 8. cap. 28. Arcadius denied the Pope a Councel punished the Bishops that kept his communion Niceph. lib. 13. cap. 30. Ex libro pontif in vita Bonifacij Epist. Bonifacij ad Honorium Augustum Rescript Honor. ad Bonifac. tom
con 1. * The Pope maketh a supplication to the Prince for a law to punish ambition in getting the Popedom Leo epist. 9. The Pope maketh supplication to the Prince for a Councell missed his sute Leo. Epist. 12. Idem Epist. 13. Idem Epist. 17. Idem Epist. 24. The Pope with sighes teares sueth for a generall Councell to the Prince was repelled Leo Epist. 26. The Pope desireth a gentle woman to further his sute to the Prince Idem Epist. 23. The Pope praieth others to helpe him with putting vp a supplication to the Prince for a Councell If the Bishop of Rome might then haue commaÌ„ded why did he intreate with teares yet misse his purpose Epist. 43. The Pope a fresh suter to the next Emperour Idem Epist. 50. Epist. 43. The Pope beseecheth the Prince by his royall decree to voide the Councell of Ephesus and to commaund the Councell of Chalcedon not to depart from the Nicene faith Concil Chalced. actio 1. Leo â—pist 59. The Pope must obey the Princes will in subscribing to the decrees of the Councell Nouell constit 123. IustiniaÌ„ commaundeth the Patriarkes namely the Bishoppe of Rome for Ecclesiasticall affaires * Ibidem Ibidem The Prince inflicteth depriuation for the breach of his Ecclesiasticall lawes Gregories submission to Mauritius in causes Ecclesiasticall Greg. Epi. lib. 2. cap. 100. Ecclesiasticall Lawes made by the Prince without the Popes knowledge against his liking How far was this man from deposing Princes The Pope subiect to the Princes commaundement sendeth the princes precept throughout his prouince The Pope of duetie yeeldeth obedieÌ„ce to his Prince The Pope the Princes seruaÌ„t by publike right He confesseth the Prince to be Lord ouer all Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 74. The Prince commaunded the Bishop of Rome to be at peace with the Bishop of Constantinople Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 76. The Pope redy to obey the Princes commaundement Idem Epist. lib. 4. cap. 78. The Pope submitting himselfe to the Princes pleasure in causes ecclesiasticall The Pope ouerruled in his consistorie with the princes precept Sextae Synod act 4. The Popes obedience to the Emperour was no curtesie but duetie Sext. Synod act 4. Agathonis Epist. 2. All the Bishops of the North and West partes seruants to the Emperour as well as they of the East Distinct. 10. ca. de capitulis The Pope professeth 850. yeares after Christ that he will inuiolably keepe the Princes ecclesiastical chapters lawes How farre the Pope was theÌ„ from the superioritie which he nowe claimeth ouer Princes * August contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51. The Iesuites cauils against the Princes soueraigntie Ieremies wordes conclude nothing for the Pope Ieremie appointed a Prophet ouer nations Ierem. 1. Ierem. 1. Theodor. in 1. cap. Ierem. Bernard considerat lib. 2. Lyra in 1. cap. Ierem. Lyra in 1. cap. Ierem. Hieron in 1. ca. Ierem. Grego Pastoral part 3. admonitio 35. Hieron in 1. cap. Ierem. 1. Tim. 6. Reuel 19. Dan. 4. Reuel 17. Esai 6. Esaie maketh not the prince subiect to the Pope Hieron in 60. cap. Esai Esai 60. Esai 49. Esai 60. Hieron in Esai cap. 60. Euerie member of Christs church hath as good interest in Esaies wordes as the Pope Princes shall serue thee that is euerie part of thee or the noblest part of thee neither of which maketh for the Pope Princes may serue none but Christ. Psalm 2. Matth. 4. Philip. 2. Heb. 1. Colos. 1. An allegoricall text yeeldeth no literall conclusioÌ„ Esai 60. Esai 60. What it is for Princes to serue and submit themselues to the church Aug. contr lit Petilian lib. 2. cap. 92. Idem contr 2. Gauden Epist. lib. 2. cap. 26. Heb. 13. Obey your rulers as well all as one The Iesuites windlace to bring the Prince in subiection to the Pope Heb. 13. Heb. 13. The words of S. Paul obey your rulers make nothing for the Pope Heb. 13. 2. Cor. 4. 2. Corin. 1. Mark 10. Act. 20. Bishops are set in the Church by the holy ghost to feede not to rule Regère applied to Bishops is to rule ang gouerne with aduise couÌ„cell not with power and dominion S. Pauls words haue no relation to the Popes person nor to that kinde of rule which he claimeth They pretend the Church when they meane the Pope Esai 60. Ibidem The cunning of their Apologie Apolog. cap. 4. The Prince is supreme though the Church bee superiour Howe the Church is superiour to the Prince The Saintes in heauen bee part of the church Ephe. 2. Galat. 4. Aug. de ciuit Dei lib. 10. cap. 7. Aug. in Psalm 149. Idem de ciuit Dei lib. 20. cap. 9. 1. Cor. 10. In the name of the Church are many things contained Ambros. de incarnat Domin sacra cap. 5. August quaest super Leuit. lib. 3. cap. 57. Idem de catechizan rudibus cap. 3. Persons are not the church without other things annexed to them * Galat. 3. Hebre 13. Rom. 8. Rom. 8. Ambro. Epist. lib. 5. oratio contra Auxentium August epist. 157. The Church is sometimes taken for the place Idem quaest sup Leuitâ— â—â— 3 cap 57. Idem in psal 137. Sometimes for the persoÌ„s Idem in Euchivid Cap. 56. The Church of all the chosen men and Angels Ibidem August de Catechiz vudibus Cap. 3. Idem in Psal. 62. The Church is the number of the faithful that euer were aâ—e or shal be * Idem in Psal. 90. concio 2. The church is the number of particular men in seueral times and places August de vnitate eccles cap. 11. Idem in Psal. 64 121. Rom. 14. Mat. 21. 1. Tim. 3. August de verbis Apostoli sermo 22. That which entereth the definition must nedes be coÌ„tained in the appellation of the Church August epist. 38. Idem de baptis lib. 1. cap. 10. Idem in Psal. 57. 30. Idem epist. 203. Ambros. in psal 118. sermo 15. Idem in psal 36. 1. Tim. 3. Ambros. oratio contra Auxent The Prince not aboue the Church though superiour to al persons in the Church Mat. 22. What things Princes haue neither right to coÌ„maund nor power to rule See fol. 147. Mat. 20. Princes are aboue al persons but not aboue the Church Ergo the Church is taken for more than for persons Ambros. lib. 5. Cap. 33. Ambros. de obitu Theodosij Apolog. Cap. 4. sect 30. Epist. 33. ad Sororem Ibidem The Iesuits nippe saint Ambroses wordes Ambros. lib. 1. epist 32. We make no Prince iudge of faith Wherin Saint Ambrose withstood Valentinian The reasons why S. Ambr. refused Valentinians iudgement as neither fit nor indifferent Ambros. lib. 5. orat contra Auxentium Idem lib. 5. epist. 32. Ibidem Ambros. lib. 5. epist. 33. Ambrose would not yeeld his consent to let the Arrians haue his Church Idem orat contra Auxent Ibidem IbideÌ„ epist. 32. Ibidem orat contra Auxent Ambrose resisted not the Prince but denied his consent to part
resisted the Popes power in whole or in part euer since the conquest This Land subiect to him neither as Christs vicar nor as Patriarke of the west Apol Cap. 4. sect 25. Bishoppes may preach wihout Cesars leaue if they submit themselues to Cesars sword as the Apostles did The Iesuites cunning in playeng with the worde Supreme as they doe What the Iesuits imagine of the word Supreme The wordes of the oth be sound eâ—ough if they cease peruerting them Ruler and Prince be as doubtfull as gouernour if men be disposed to cauill Bishops be called Rulers Princes Kings Queenes Heb. 13. Act. 20. In. 1. Cap. epist. ad Titum Idem in 3. Ca. 1. ad Tim. Lib. 4. Cap. 33. Morali in Iob. In 49. ca. Esaiae Euerie of the faithfull is a King and a Priest Reuelat. 1. 1. Peter 2. Lib. Cap. 37. Idem lib. 4. Cap. 24. Ibidem Princes are Bishops and Priests Euagrie tom epist. 2. Idem Oceano eodem tom Exod. 24. Iosua 24. Iudges 8. Iudâ—th 6. The ground of al their absurdities is the cauilling at 〈◊〉 words The gouernment of Princes Prâ—ests are distinct Gouernours of this realme none is but only the Prince This is the profound Logike of Rhemes A right Frier that will neuer be answered though the Sophisme be neuer so grosse Only Princes beare the sworde within their owne dominions If only Princes beare the sword they beare it in al things as well spiritual as teÌ„porall where the sword is required The sworde must be vsed in spirituall things and causes as wel as temporall Princes caÌ„not be defenders of the faith officers of the Church but by means of the sword 1. Tim. 2. The sword ordeined chiefly to preserue godlinesse and honesty among men The sword of Princes is supreme in that it is not subiect to the Pope must be obeyed of al in things that be good These bee right Iesuiticall conceits The true supremacie of Princes The Papists in euery stile which they giue the Pope make him supreme Caus. 25. quaest 1. § Nulli fas Acclamationes in fine Concil Triden Sess. 25. Supreme gouernour doth not touch Christ so nere as Supreme Bishop doth which is the Popes vsuall stile 1. Pet. 5. 1. Pet. 2. My Kingdom is not of this world Ioh. 18. Who made me Iudge ouer you Luke 12. Princes must be indured whatsoeuer they coÌ„mand but not obeyed agaynst the faith or canoÌ„s of the church In temporall things Princes may not frustrate the lawes of their progenitors nor the liberties of the people Lib. 4. cap. 27. Constit. 131. de Eccle. Canon Al godly princes haue admitted the Canons of the Church Constit. 6. Athanas. ad solitar vitaÌ„ agentes Gregor lib. 9. epist. 41. The Pope obeyed the Princes lawes not against the Canons The Popes name put in steed of the Princes Caus. 7. quaest 1. Scripsit Nouel coÌ„st 83. Item const 6. To be tyed to the saith and canons of the Church doth not diminish their supremacie The Princes sword is not spirituall Ephes. 6. Reuelat. 1. Hebr. 4. The word of god is the spirituall sword The magistrats sword is corporall Mat. 10. Mat. 10. And temporall 2. Cor. 4. How the Papists abuse the word spirituall in extending it to men and matters that they should not They be spirituall which haue the spirit of God 1. Cor. 3. 1. Cor. 2. Gal. 6. Iude epist. 1. Pet. 2. Hieron ad Iulian. tomo epist. 1. Their lands liuings must be spirituall though Saint Paul call theÌ„ carnall 1. Cor. 9. Rom. 15. Mat. 22. Ambros. epist. lib. 5. orat coÌ„tra Auxent The Romish kalender of spirituall things See the tytles of their Decretals Malefactours of al sortes should opeÌ„ly repent before they be receiued to the Sacraments Rom. 13. The goods lands and liuings of Clergie men be Cesars right What things ChristiaÌ„ Princes first committed to Bishops for their learning and integritie the Pope afterward toke theÌ„ vp as his own Bishops the fittest men to deale in these causes but by the Princes power and lawes Bishops by their function may deny the sacraments to such as will not repent but they may not compel or punish any man without commission from the Prince Compulsion correction in all things is the Princes right The sword ordayned chiefly for things spirituall Rom. 7. Ibidem Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Mark 10. Worldly thinges be neither good nor euil for which two causes Princes beare the word The spiritual things which the Pope claimeth are teÌ„porall 1. Cor. 13. 1. Cor. 14. Princes were not ordained to cloaâ—â— the backe feede the belâ—â— â— Tim. 6. Mat. 6. 1. Tim. 2. Godlines and honestie the chiefest causes why Princes were ordained The Prince hath the same charge in the coÌ„monwealth that euerie priuate man hath in his familie Ephes. 6. The parentes charge towardes their children Psalm 34. Deut. 4. Deut. 4. Genes 18. Psalm 101. Dauids charge in his kingdome Religion the Princes chiefest charge Nouel Consti 6. Legum Theod. Nouel tit 2. de Iudaeis Samaritanis Aug. epist. 162. The sifting examining of a Bishop did most pertaine to the princes charge by S. Aug. iudgemeÌ„t Epist. ad LuciuÌ„ inter leges Edward cap. 17. Eleutherius opinion of the Princes charge Inter leges Edward Reg. cap. 17. Pope Iohns opinion of the Princes charge Beda hist. gentis Anglor cap. 32. Gregories coÌ„fession of the Princes charge The king of Englands oth expressing his charge Inter leges Edward cap. 17. de Regis offâ—cio Ibidem The very heathen were of the same opinion Politic. lib. 3. cap. 11. Ibidem cap. 5. In all kingdomes and common-wealthes since the foundation of the earth religion hath been setled defended by the Magistrates sword Their authoritie must stretch as far as their dutie God hath giuen Princes the sword in those thinges which himself commandeth The Priest in no cause may beare the sword The confirming of Rites and Ceremonies needeth the sword The abuse or contempt of excommunication reuenged by the sword The sworde committed to the Prince Rom. 13. His Apostles forbidden the sword Mat. 26. Mat. 20. Bernard de considerat lib. 2. Dominion interdicted the Pope himself Caus. 33. quaest 2. ¶ Inter haec Caâ—s 33. quaest 8. ¶ De Episc. No clergimen may vse the sword no not by the Popes authoritie 2. Cor. 10. Ad solitar vitaÌ„ agentes Ambros. lib. 5. Epist. 33. The seruants of Christ may haue no earthly kingdome since their master had none Iohn 8. Matth. 10. 2. Tim. 2. Distinct. 96. ¶ Cum. ad verum A Bishop may not vsurp an Emperours name much lesse his sword Distinct. 10. ¶ Quoniam ideÌ„ Cyprian writeth to Iulian an 100. yeares before Iulian was borne The Disciples of Christ straitly charged not to medle with Princely swords The sworde hath beene may be and should be vsed for that which is good in al spirituall things and causes The oth cleared Their absurdities returned on their owne heades
Alfon. lib. 1. ca. 2. Theosoph lib. 4. cap. 32. Then surely masters you do but flatter when you make the Pope free froÌ„ errour Erasmus annot in 1. Cor. ex cap. 7. And yet the Iesuites make it an high point of their faith The Iesuites reâ—use Councels and Fathers because they will not acknowledge the Pope hath erred Clements erronious decree Caus. 12. quaest 1. § lectissimus Plato dialog 4. de Repub. That althings ought to be common among christians is a grosse error The Bishop of Rome a Montanist Tertul. aduer Praxeam The Bishop of Rome an Idolater Marcellini Papae condemnatio tomo concil 1. The Bishop of Rome an Arrian Ruff. li. 1. ca. 27. Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 37. Theodoret. lib. 2 cap. 17. Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 17. Athanas. epist. ad solitar vitaÌ„ agentes Ex pontificali Damasi in vita Liberij Hieron de ecclesiast script in Fortunatiano The Iesuites neglect al this to saue the Pope froÌ„ error Hieron ad chronicon Euse. adiectio Omission in one writer is no disproofe in an other Martin Polon in Liberiâ— Vincentius specul histor lib. 15. Cap. 11. 12. IdeÌ„ in Damaso Beleeue none but your selfe then you may be sure the Pope shall not erre Honorius died an heretike 6. Synod actio tiâ— 12.13.16.17.18 * Actio 12. * Actio 13. And for no cause but â—or that it condeÌ„neth the pope as an heretike * 6. Synod actio 18. habet haec epist. Leon. 2. ad Constant. Augustum * Nicen. Synod 2. Actio 3. * Nice Synod 2. actio 7. 8. Synod acti 7. If you would forge against your selues how much more for your selues Though Honorius were innocent yet three general Councels confesse the Pope might erre If one did er others may What reason we should beleeue late Papists speaking in fauour of the Pope against the ancient stories How Papists esteeme antiquitie and vniuersalitie wheÌ„ the Pope is touched Vigilius an heretike Liberati breuiarium cap. 22. Ex libro Pontificali in viâ—â— Vigilij Vigilius a lewd Pope Epist. Syluerij Papae ad vigil â—omo Concil 2. Pontificale in vita Vigilij Vigilius drawen by the neck round about Constantinople Distinct. 19. § Anastasius Ibidem glossa ¶ abegerunt Dist. 19. § Anastasius Ibidem glossa ¶ diuino The See was not free from error when the men did erre that sate in the See The Rhemish Testament 22. Luke The office iâ— not the worse though the maÌ„ be naught He that may erre cannot be supreme iudge ouer the whole Church The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke Rom. 10. Faith faileth where the hart erreth The Pope may erre with hart mouth but his Court the Iesuits say can not erre Luke 22. Oraui pro te what place doth te signifie This is rather a plague vpon Peter his successours than a praier for them How the Iesuites constâ—r Christs wordes The Rhemish Testament vpon the 22. of S. Luke Of a particular extraordinarie fact no generall rule can be gathered God ruled Caiphas mouth against his hart Cyril in Iohan. lib. 8. cap. 3. IbideÌ„ li. 8. ca. 2. The diuel possessed Caiphas hart but God ordered his wordes 1. Kings 24. Mat. 27. Luke 8. â— Iohn 11. God can doe the like when he will Caiphas condemned our Sauiour for a blasphemer Matth. 26. Christs promise was not made to peter sitting in â—udgement Erronious Decretals The decretals of Celestinus lately pared and his error left out Alfons aduers. haereses li. â— cap. 4. Decretal lib. 4. de diuortiis § quanto Ibidem ¶ praedecessor Decretal lib. 4. de sponsa duoruÌ„ § licet praeter To decide of marriage against the truth is an error in faith Sixti Decretae lib. 5. tit 12. § exijt Extrauag Ioh. 22. tit 14. § cuÌ„ inter noÌ„nullos Ibidem He should haue told vs what right they might haue besides the propriety Christ and his Apostles renounced the proprietie and reserued the vse Is not this good diuinitieâ— Extra § cum inter nonnullos gloss ¶ declaramus * Expressè contrarium inâ—uit De consec dist 2. § Ego Beren Ibidem ¶ dentibus A sober vnderstaÌ„ding to expound the wordes clean contrarie to the text IbideÌ„ ¶ quaÌ„ Dominus Nicolaus haec sexta Synodus teneÌ„daÌ„ tradidit mihique firmauit They print no more than they list and mind to defend then they aske vs what errors we find in the Popes decres You might as well say the Pope may er in his shoes but not in his slippers or in the shade but not in the sun-shine We caÌ„ propose theÌ„ a thousaÌ„d Sees which they shal neuer proue to haue erred in open Consistories by definitiue senteÌ„ce Heretiks euer condemned for their writings preachings not for their definitiue senteÌ„ces Though no Pope had erred yet they may erre and so long they can be no iudges of faith The highest court in earth may misse the trueth The Church is directed by the word and spirit of christ not by the Popes consistorie Their owne Church 1400. yeres after Christ stoutly auoucheth the Pope might erre Distinct. 40. § Si Papa Abbaâ— VrspergeÌ„s anno 1080. Fasciculus reruÌ„ sciendarum in vita gestis Hildebrandi Ibidem Matth. Paris in Henrico 3. sub anno 1253. Massei Chronic. in anno 1409. * Naucler Chronograph generatio 47. anno 1409. * Genâ—brard li. 2 Chronograph anno 1414. * Concil CoÌ„stan sessio 37. Concil Constan. sessio 11. Concil Basil. sessio 34. anno 1439. Articuli Parisienses A Iudge must haue skill to discerne and power to coÌ„maund The Pope hath neither Erre he may Power to coÌ„maund or compel he hath none He that wil be iudge of truth must proue his claime All that we giue vnto princes is either to be obeyed or indured 2. Timoth. 3. Ierem. 26. Preachers may reproue Princes 1. Kings 15. 3. Kings 14. 3. Kings 21. 4. Kings 3. Mark 6. 2. Kings 12. 2. Chron. 19. 4. Kings 20. The Prophets reproued as well good kings as euill Preachers must not admit Princes to the Sacraments but on those conditions which god requirâ—th If Princes will be partakers of Gods graces they must receiue them as he doeth propose them Chryso in Mat. hom 83. Ibidem ad populum Antioch hom 60. This is newe Romish diuinitie which in deed is meere impietie D. ALLENS DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES cap. 4. LATELY SET FOORTH AGAINST THE EXECVTION OF IVSTICE The defence of the English Catholikes cap. 4. S. Thomas Thomas Aquine a late corrupt writer a great factor for the Pope The defence of English Catholikes Cap. 4. Toledoes opinion of a Prince excommunicate The case of K. Henrie the 8. What care we for Tholedoes opinion Preachers must not admit Princes to the Sacraments but on those conditions which God requireth Tell vs what warrant and not what fellowes they haue to resist the ordinance oâ— God THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES The sentence and definition of
prince against prince are nothing to this purpose The defence Cap. 5. Euseb. li. 9. ca. 6. The Armenians were no subiects but consederates Euseb. li. 9. ca. 7. The defence Cap. 5. Warres made for religion It is not enough to proue that some rebelled but this also must be shewed that their rebellion was allowed * Rom. 13. Well they might shut the Church dores against Ethnickes whiles they were at the diuine mysteries but they neuer rebelled nor refused to suffer any punishmeÌ„t that Galerius or others would inflict on theÌ„ Euseb. li. 8. ca. 7.9.10.12 * Euseb. li. 8. ca. 7.9.10.12 * The defence cap. 5. Nazian de lande Basil. Ambros. lib. 5. epist. * Theod. lib. 4. cap. 19. S. Basil would not suffer the people to grow to a tumult for his defeÌ„ce See Nazianzenes funeral oration in the praier of S. Basil. The people offered to saue their Bishop froÌ„ the priuate and intemperate rage of a deputie but not from the Emperour Nazian in laudem Basilij oratio funebr This tumult seemed tollerable and yet S. Basill would not allow it S. Ambrose would not suffer the people of Millan to defeÌ„d him against the Emperour Ambros. epist. lib. 5. epist. ad Marcel 33. Ibidem Pugnare non debeo See the fifth booke and 33. epistle of S. Ambrose for this whole action This casuall disorder was much against the Bishops will yet nothing neere a rebellion Lib. 5. epist 33. * Ibidem Had the Iesuites been in S. Ambrose place they would haue tolde the Emperor an other tale The Defence cap. 5. If the people were afraid to rebell in the primatiue Church what thinke you were the Bishops The defence cap. 5. Theodoret. li. 2. cap. 13. The example of Athanasius Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 13. Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 7. Dama in Pontific Athanasius no rebell Athanasius horribly belâ—ed by the Iesuits Athanasius cleareth himselfe of that which the Iesuits father on him Athanas. ad Imperator ConstantiuÌ„ Apolog. Did this man stirre Constans against Constantius * And Iesuits Athanasius saith it had been madnes to haue done that which the Iesuits say he did Athanas. IbideÌ„ Ibidem How farre the was he from rebelling Be they sober or wel in their wits that not only thinke but openly affirm they may resist and depriue the prince The people of Alexandria were verie seditious Socra li. 7. c. 13. Euag. li. 2. ca. 8. Socrat. lib. 3. cap. 2. lib. 5. cap. 16. li. 7. cap. 13. Euag. lib. 2. cap. 5. 8. Theeues and murtherers far more tolerable than deposers of Princes Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 9. Sozom. lib. 6. Cap. 13. Athanas. euer submitted him selfe when he saw the people inclined to any tumult for his cause Sozom. lib. 8. cap. 18. And so did Chrysostome The Defence cap. 5. Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 17. 30. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 19. * Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 37. The tumult at Alexandria for the receiuing of Peter and reiecting of Lucius Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 37. The people draue Lucius from his See but not with armes The people might cleaue to their true pastor though the Prince by force had placed an other in his steede That Lucius was expelled from his Bishopricke is confessed but the meane how it was done is not expressed Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 36. Lucius detested for sheding of blood by one that was a conuert of the Saracens The defence cap. 5. Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 18. Niceph. lib. 14. cap. 21. * Theodoret. li. 5. cap. 39. How the Persians were harboured by Theodosius the yonger * Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 18. * Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 18. * Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 20. Can the Iesuits find no difference betweene deposing princes by their owne subiects harboring of strangers by other princes Atticus no subiect to the persian can be no president for subiects Theodosius the Emperor had other good causes to warre vpon the Persian Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 20. Cap. 18. 20. The defence cap. 5. The example of Pope Leo the first Leo. epist. 75. Euag. li. 2. ca. 8. Leo requested the Prince to punish his subiects what is that to the depriuation of Princes Euag. li. 2. ca. 8. It is a glorious thing for a Prince to punish heretikes but not for subiects to rebell against their Prince The defence cap. 5. Gregorie made the like request to the Emperours deputie For 600. yeres after Christ no subiect tooke armes against his prince for any matter of religion Aug. in Psal. 124. If Apostataes were serued obaied by Christians what Princes should be deposed Caus. 11. quaest 13. §. Iulianus The defence cap. 5. What Princes may be excoÌ„municated when The Iesuites finding no example in the Primatiue church where a prince was vrged with armes by his own subiects come to this shift that they might haue doone it though they did it not If the Bishops might haue deposed princes and did not theÌ„ were they permitters increasers of their heresie and tyrannie The defence Cap. 5. The Iesuits slaunder the auncieÌ„t martyrs of christs Church as if they had been willing but not able to resist their Princes Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 22. What oportunities the christians had to distresse Constantius Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 25. Athanas. apolog ad Constant. Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 34. And Iulian. * In Psal. 124. * Socrat. lib. 3. cap. 22. And valens Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 3. Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 35. And Valentinian Paulus Diaconus de gest Romanor lib. 1. And Anastasius Euag. li. 3. ca. 44 Anastasius an heretike offered to resigne his Crowne the people would not suffer him Regard of dutie and the Apostles doctrine kept the primatiue Church from resisting hereticall princes * Rom. 13. Paulus Diaconus de gest Romanor lib. 1. The defence cap. 5. Se. S. Thomas 2.2 quaest 10. artic 10. Rom. 13. Their scroles resolue directly against S. Paul Rom. 13. Luke 20. This is nether pertinent to our question nor any part of their meaning Tertullian ad Scapulam Neuer rebels were christiaÌ„s in the primatiue Church The reasons why ChristiaÌ„s would not resist taken out of their own confessions Tertul. in apologetico Ibidem Christians commanded by God to pray for their Princes though they were persecutors Ibidem See S. Paul S. Peter for obedience to heathen Princes Rom. 13. Tertul. in apologetico Mark what faces the Christians had 200. yeres after Christ. Desolation would haue followed if the ChristiaÌ„s should haue but forsaken the Pagans The Citizens almost all Christians The defence cap. 5. The defence cap. 5. Princes excoÌ„municated depriued for defects in religion An Anti pape Heretical malice No president for the depriuatioÌ„ of princes within a 1000. yeres after Christ. Zonar annal to 3. in imperio Leon. Isaâ—ri Vrspergens in anno 718. Otho Frisingen lib. 5. cap. 18. Sigebert in anno 731. The rebellion of the ItaliaÌ„s against Leo might be the Popes secret practise but he durst not appeare in the
matter Paulus Diaconus de gestis Rom. li. 8. in Leo. The Bishop of Rome depriued not Leo the thirde of his temporalities Regino in anno Dom. 655. Blondus decadis 1. lib. 10. This was a rebellion of the souldiers and not a depriuation of the Popes The Pope durst not opeÌ„ly be seene to take their partes howsoeuer he priuatly incensed or fauored this tumult Naucleâ—us generat 25. Platina in Gregorie 2. This made the Germanes and Graecians impute this rebellion to the Bishop of Rome perhappes not without cause if all his priuate packing had bin knowen Sabel Ennead 8. lib. 7. The Italians were many waies greeued with the Graecians and that made them take light occasions to reuolt Aeneas Sylu. in Decad. BloÌ„d. lib. 10. Decad. 1. The Pope calleth Leo most religious Lord the last yeare of his life Auen lib. 3. annalium fol. 289. IbideÌ„ fol. 291. Marianus in annis 727. 741. The Bishop of Rome did not then take vpoÌ„ him to be the deposer of Princes This proueth rebellion of the people against their Prince if the Iesuites will but it concerneth not the Popes censures The Defence cap. 5. The diuisioÌ„ of the Empire The Empire was not deuided for any defect in religion Synod Nicenae 2. actio 2. Ibidem epist. Adrian ad Constant Imperat. Iren. matrem eius The Pope coÌ„fesseth the church of Rome to be the Greeke Emperours in the seconde Nicene Synode and after that councel was no change of religion in Greece The Empire was diuided by the publike decree of the Romane state and not by the Popes keyes Platina in Leone 3. Blondus Decadis 2. lib. 1. Nauâ—l volum 3 generatio 27. in anno 800. Sabel ennead 8. lib. 8. Auen annal boior lib. 4. fol. 344. Sigeber in ann 801. The Romanes pretended the wickednes of Irene to be the cause why they forsooke the Graecians Otho Frisingen lib. 5. cap. 29. Aeneas Syluius de authoritate Romani Imperij cap. 9. A second cause pretended for the diuision of the Empire The indignity which the Romans conceiued against Irenes vsurpation crueltie The diuision of the Empire maketh nothing for the Popes depriuing of Princes Manie realms fell from the Greeke Empire before the Romanes Bloud Decad. 1. lib. 10. Vppon what occasion the Empire was diuided by the report of their owne stories The Pope him-selfe pretendeth not religion in this consultation Helpe sought from the king of France by the common assent of the people of Rome Sabel ennead 8. lib. 8. Nauel volum 3. generat 26. anno 753. Blond Decad. 1. lib. 1. The Pope had his secrete purposes in labouring the diuision of the Empire The Iesuites by this may proue the Romanes to be rebels if they lift they can not proue the Pope to be the disposer of kingdoms See Zonaras annalium lib. 3. The Grecians were fallen to catching and fighting for the Scepter before the Romanes shranke from them The Grecians depriued Irene as vsurping the scepter The Pope by right of his keyes had naught to doe with the Romane Empire The people had more to do with translating the Empire than the Pope Platina foully ouerseen in the translatioÌ„ of the empire Plat. in Greg. 3. Nauâ— volum 2. generatio 25. anno 725. Volum 2. generatio 25. Sabel ennead 8. lib. 8. Habetur Auentin li. 3. fol. 888. Blondus Decad. 1. lib. 10. Sabellic ennead 8. lib. 8. Platina in Gregorio 3. * Suprà fol. 414. Plat. in Greg. 3. Platina contradicteth all other stories * Sigebertus Zonar Cuspinian Sabel ennead 8. lib 8. Much shuffling in popish writers about the diuision of the empire Philip Childerike depriued Caus. 15. quaest 6. ¶ alius Plat. in Zach. 1. Frisingen lib. 5. cap. 22. Wel the Pope might make a packe for the deposition of Childerike but his keyes were then of no such power as to depose Princes Caus. 15. quaest 6. ¶ alius Sabell eâ—nead 8. lib. 8. The germans consulted the Pope whether it were lawfull for theÌ„ to depose the Prince or not Blondus Decad. 1. lib. 10. The whole nation deposed Childerik Nauc generat 26. Caus. 15. quaest 6. ¶ Alius gloss ibidem in ver Deposuit The deposing of Childerike to make Pipin king of FraÌ„ce had a further reach than euerie man saw The Pope and Pipin diuided the west parts of the worlde betweene them Auen lib. p. 299 Zacharies answere to the German Legates This Pope claimeth no power to depose Princes but supposeth it to be lawfull for any realm to prouide themselues of a fit king Rom. 13. Ieroboam the ten tribes had Gods warrant for their reuolt and so had not the Germanes when they chose Pipine When princes are vnfit for the regiment of their people their own Realmes and not the Pope must haue care of that defect Extreeme follie and frensie be iust causes to remoue Princes from bearing the sworde The last of Pipines race deposed for a bedlem Regino lib. 2. anno 887. Euag. lib. 5. c. 11 Blond Decad. 1. lib. 10. Naucl. volum 3. gener 26. Sabel ennead 8. lib. 8. Gag li. 3. in Carolo Martel Vrss ergens in anno 753. Regino lib. 2. anno 753. The Iesuites must proue that the Pope may dispence with a lawful oth The staggering of their stories make many men thinke that Childerike was no foole * Auent lib. 3. fol. 293. Nau volum 3. generatio 26. anno 750. Frising lib. 5. cap. 13. This power of the Marshal ouer the King made Pipin aspire to the crown Beda de sex aetatibus mundi Regino lib. 1. in anno 648. Marianus in Philippico Frisingens lib. 5. cap. 15. Vrspergens in anno 713. Blondus decadis 1. lib. 10. Nauc volum 2. gener 23. Sabel ennead 8. lib. 7. Sigebert in anno 712. Mo examples than these they haue not for a 1000. yeares after Christ. The eldest of the Germane Emperours that were offered depriuation by the Pope was Henrie the 4. Lewes the 3. was not deposed Marian. in Lodouic 3. Sabel ennead 9. lib. 1. This Lewes was not deposed Marian. in Lodouic â—3 Blondus Decad. 2. lib. 2 Marian. in Lodouic filio Arnulph Platina in Benedict 4. Martinus in Arnulph Plat. in Formos This Lewes was neuer crowned The last of Pipines line deposed for a mad man Blond decad 2. lib. 2. Regino lib. 2. anno 888. Blond vt supra Italy forsooke the Germans choose to themselues two kinges of their owne Regino lib. â— anno 888. Seditions and inuasions made the Romanes glad after 60. yeares to submit theÌ„selues againe to the Germanes Regino lib. 2. anno 896. Decad. 2. lib. 2 Blond Decad. â— lib 2. An other change of the Empire but not by the Popes keyes Otho Frisingen li. 6. ca. 9. 10. The Romanes were no losers by often cutting the Empire in peeces The Germans and Italians differ in their reckonings Lewes the son of Boso was not depriued by the Pope Otho FrisingeÌ„s lib.
6. cap. 15. Three Lodouikes not one of them deposed by the Pope Henry the fourth was the first that euer was offered dopositioÌ„ by any Pope The defence cap. 5. The defence cap. 5. It is no sinne nor wrong to call Gregorie the seuenth Hildebrand The Iesuites mannerly speeches of the Emperor Acts. 12. vers 22. The defence cap. 5. The conteÌ„tioÌ„ between Pope Gregorie the seuenth and Henry the third Emperour Proue the Popes right to depose Princes we remit the successe That right is yet vnproued The praise of the person is nothing to the right of the cause The defence Cap. 5. Pope Hildebrand a good man Hildebrand might well be a dealer in Berengarius recantation for the goodnes of it The Iesuits should condemne them selues if they should not coÌ„mend Hildebrand Which like they better Peter enduring or Hildebrand displacing Princes Lambert Schaf Abbas Vrsperg The mildnes of Pope Hildebrand What iustice call you that which the Church of Christ for 1000. yeres counted wickednes * Iude epist. * Rom. 23. The defence cap. 5. Lib. 3. cap. vlt. factorum memorabilium The testimonie of the Duke of Genuâ— for Pope Hildebrand See Vrsperpen lib. 5. annalium How knew Baptista Fulgosius the goodnes of Hildebrand that liued 400 yeres before him Lib. 3. cap. 8. de Constant. A noble mans fansie is no fit balance for this cause No reason that Princes rightes should be tried by Italian Dukes The defence cap. 5. Trithem in Chron. If Baptista knew little of Hildebrand Trithemius knew lesse of Henry the fourth Trithemius a man of their side our age is no good witnes in this case Dodechinus in anno 1090. This pestileÌ„t slaunder of Henry the 4. came first froÌ„ the mouth of a rebell that sought to supplant him Three bishoprickes for one sword is no such hainous Symony The Iesuits are content to make their abbasses whoores and their Bishops Sodomites to deface this Emperour The greatest fautors of Hildebrand aliue at the same time with him neuer charged him with these vnclean surmises Dodechinus in anno 1106. Marianus in anno 1075. He that will rebell against his Prince must be a slanderer of his Prince or els he shal seeme to rebell without cause Vita Henrici 4. habetur in fasciculo rerum sciendarum Colonie impresso He toucheth the very crimes that the Iesuites obiect Vrspergeâ—s in anno 1071. It were easie to paint out Hildebrand in his coulors if that were to this purpose Vrspergens in anno 1076. Vrsperg in anno 1080. Vrsperg IbideÌ„ The Iesuites beleeue one rebel against his Prince without prâ—sâ— but they will not beleeue the Bishops Nobles of Italie Germany iudicially pronouncing against the Pope Italy displeased with Henry for submitting himself to Hildebrand Lambert Scafnaburgens in anno 1077. Al the bishops of Italie had condemned Hildebrand for capitall crimes Hildebrand infamous for all vices Hildebrand an Apostaticall Pope He that will see the rest of HildebraÌ„ds vertues let him read Beno the Cardinall of his life and acts The fact and not the life of Hildebrand is the thing which we striue for The pope had his flatterers as well as the Prince Mariage in Priests and obedience to Princes impugned by the names of fornication Symonie Hildebrandes griefe against the Emperor Hildebrandes policie to quell the Empeâ—oâ— These aduantages the Pope had against the Prince Lambert scafnaburg in anno 1077. Hildebrands first attempt was to pull the Clergie from the king The next was to make him self the corrector master of Princes The mysterie of iniquitie sheweth it selfe Men of their own religion haue obserued in HildebraÌ„d as much as I report Auent annal lib. 5. fol. 562.569 sequeÌ„t The Iesuites trust none but Italians such as flatter the Pope as fast as themselues Vrspergens in anno 1076. Hildebrands owne confession for what causes he did excommunicate the Emperor Henry the 4. free from Symony by the report of his verie enemies Lambert Scafn in anno 1075. Did not this prince vehemently detest Symonists Lambert Scafn Ibidem No prince freer in his elections thaÌ„ Henry the 4. If the Pope had coÌ„mitted no worse Symony than heÌ„ry the 4. did the Church had beene in better case than it is The Monkes of purpose diffame the prince to flatter the Pope Vita Henrici 4. in fasciculo reruÌ„sciendarum Henry the 4. abused by his tutors in his minoritie This fault of other men is imputed to the Prince by the Moncks The tru cause why Hildebrand was offended that the Prince should giue spirituall liuings This was the way to pull first the clergie after the people from the Prince Princes were neuer weakened till their clergie tooke part with the Pope against them Hildebrand made it Symonie for a lay man to present to a spiritual liuing Platina in Gregor 7. Vide caus 16. quaesi 7. ¶ Si quis deincept Lustily saide and like a Pope Ibidem This was neuer counted Symony before Hildebrands time Platina in Benedict 2. The Bishop of Rome could not be chosen without the Princes consent Lambert Schaf in anno 1073. Hildebrand wheÌ„ he came to be Pope durst not be ordered without the Princes pleasure That which Hildebrand condemned was long before coÌ„firmed to the Prince by the former Bishops of Rome Distinct. 63. ¶ Adrianus Hildebrand accursed by his predecessours Distinct. 63. ¶ In Synod This was the yoke which Hildebrand could not indure Martin Polon in Adriano Leone 9. Plat. in Pasc. 1. Leon. 8. Sigebert in anno 1111. This was the chiefe quarel between Hildebrand and Henry the 4. Was not this a wise cause to depriue a Prince of his Crowne The Prince was not bouÌ„d to appeare in the popes consistorie Refusing the Popes penaltie is no depriuation in a Prince Any Pastor may remit the Princes sinnes as wel as the Pope Marke the stately proceedings of Hildebrand against the Emperour The diuell himselfe may minister as good Iustice as HildebraÌ„d did The popes arbitrarie penances are no parts of our conuersion vnto God The Pope abuseth the keies to increase his gaine and power How Hildebrand sped with his enterprise The iust reward of a rebel shewed in Rodolph Vrspergens in anno 1080. Sigebets in anno 1080. Hildebrand Prophesieth against himselfe Hildebrand himselfe turned out of his Popedome Sigeber in anno 1084. Vrspergen in anno 1083. Siger in anno 1085. In vita gestis Hildebrand Otho Prisingens li. 6. cap. 35. Depriuation of Princes neuer offered by any before Hildebrande Sigeb in anno 1088. This is right the Iesuites cause Apud Auent lib. 5. fol. 563. Vrspergen in anno 1085. The later writers of the Romish faction to please the Pope coÌ„mend Hildebrand to the heauens Vita Henrici 4. in Fasciculo rerion sciendaruÌ„ That part punished which offended What Hildebrand began the pope that came after would neuer leaue off Three erectâ—â— against Henry the 4. and all slaine The two sons of Hen. the 4.
set vp in arms against their father For this whole storie see Cuspinian in HeÌ„r 4. Auent in Annalibus the life of Henrie the 4. in fasciculo reruÌ„ sciendaruÌ„ The Nobles shrinking froÌ„ the father to the sonne Henrie the 4. aided by his mortall enemies when he was forsaken of his friends A right patern of the Romish institution The defence cap. 5. Chron. hist. Pol. lib. 4. Kings of later times excommunicated Cuspin in Hen. 4. Cuspin ibidem Bishop Stanislaie murdered by king Boleslaus This kings â—ct was euill 〈◊〉 the Popes was worse It is a greater sinne for a subiect to kill his Prince than for a king to kill a Bishop Cromerus de rebus Polon lib. 4. in Boleslao Rebellion and murder are the fruites of the Popes deposing Princes We defende not the vices of Princes but examine the Popes power to depriue theÌ„ of their crownes God punisheth Princes though not by the Pope And what if the Pope be a malefactour who shall punish him The keyes do not touch the crownes of Princes Tyrants were neuer yet repressed by Priestes 1. Sam. 22. 2. Sam. 11. 3. Reg. 21. 18 Mat. 14. Act. 12. Many Princes haue beene deposed by their owne Realmes but not by Priestes Princes were better to refer themselues to their realmes if they were to choose their iudges than to endure the Popes pride How Frederike the first was handled By these artes the Pope hath growen great by these he yet standeth Psalm 91. The tyraÌ„nies iniuries of Popes against Princes were infinite Radeuiâ—us de gestis Frederici lib. 10. Apud Naucler volum 3. gener 39. anno 1156. The Popes letter to the Emperour * A foule sinne for the prince to set his name before the Popes The Pope woulde not haue the clergie sweare fealtie to their Prince The popes gaine must not be impaired Nauel ibidem The mildnes of Frederikes answere to the Popes letter Bishops owe fidelitie to Princes not only in respect of their temporalities but of their duties to gods ordinance The detestable beast of prid crâ—pt loÌ„g since vnto Peters seate Antichrist practising for life to make him selfe strong Abbas Vrspergens in anno 1152. Nauc genera 39. anno 1158. The Pope coÌ„triueth a mighty coÌ„spiracie to resist the prince to driue him cleane out of Italie Vrsperg in anno 1152. Naucler generat 39. Cuspinian in Frederico Adrian choked with a fly Cuspian in Friderico 1. Cuspinian in Frederico 2. The Italian stories wholie bent to iustifie the Popes doinges and to belie the Germane Princes In these cases I alleadge no writers but men of their own religion Radeuicus de gestis Frideric 1. lib. 2. cap. 52. cap. 69. cap. 67. cap. 69. 71. Radeuicus de gestis Frideric 1. lib. 2. cap. 52. cap. 69. cap. 67. cap. 69. 71. Radeuicus de gestis Frideric 1. lib. 2. cap. 52. cap. 69. cap. 67. cap. 69. 71. Radeuicus de gestis Frideric 1. lib. 2. cap. 52. cap. 69. cap. 67. cap. 69. 71. This conspiracy was made whiles Adrian liued before Alexanders election came in question The councell of Papia pronounced Victor to bee lawfully chosen Radeuicus de de gestis Frideric 1. lib. 2. c. 64 Bishops had skill in the canons of the of church which princes had not Radeuic lib. 2. cap. 67.68.70 The greater part of the cardinals had conspired against the Prince The choice of Victor Alexander seâ— vp by the coÌ„spiratours against Victo Frederike did but the dutie of a christian Prince and much lesse their ancient Emperors did in the like case Victors election was faultie but Alexanders was worse Alexanders election was vtterly voide Councels before and after did as much as this came to Apud Rudeuic lib. 2. cap. 51. ca. 52. The causes of this conspiracy The meanes which the Pope vsed to tire the Emperour Naucl. gener 39. 40. Cuspinian in Fred. 1. Frederike tamed those countâ—ies that rebelled against him Vide Naucl. gener 40. anno 1177. The time for Antichrist to be exalted Naucl. gen 40. anno 1177 The Pope is where hee would be Can you tell where S. Peter did wage warre vpon any priuate maÌ„ or Prince Naucl. gen 39. anno 1158. The Pope fighteth with Princes for earthly gaines griefs What quarels the Pope hath pursued these 500. yeares First clergie mens liuings then their persons must be exempted from the Prince How Frederik the second was handled Vrsper in anno 1227. Blond dec 2. lib. 7. Al that wickednesse was the lawfull defence of his owne right Platina in Honorio 3. The Italians cannot defend the Pope but by inforcing hainous crimes against the Emperors though they know none The causes of the Popes egernes against Frederik the â— In Henrico 3. Decad. 2. lib. 7. Vrspergens in anno 1221. The Pope did the Prince wrong though the Italians say nay Cuspinian in Frederico 2. Cuspinians admonition of the Italian stories It was no smal point of Antichrists policie to get some that should make all maner of lies for him his See Gregories furie against this Emperor Note the pietie of Popes So had you neede to say for if you graÌ„t them to bee â—ruâ— the pope could be litle lesse than a diuell incarnate Naucler gener 41 anno 1229. The Italians would faine preteÌ„d other causes to saue the Popes honestie thâ—se be so shameful that they blush to hear them Naucler IbideÌ„ The Pope would not admit the Princes embassadors to proue their masters sicknesse This was no pride Vrstergen in anno 1227. The Pope did hinder the Prince from going yet excommunicated him for not going Naucler gener â—1 anno 1226. The Popes keies were euer ready against the Prince but neuer against those that molested the Prince Vrspergen in anno 1228. Vrsper â—odem anno The Pope inuadeth the Emperours dominions whiles he was fighting against the Turke What was this but to betraie the christians to the Turkeâ— Vrspergen in anno 1229. The Pope is angry that the prince returneth with peace and victory Nauâ— l. generaâ— 41. anno 1228. The pope stirreth the princes souldiers to rebell against him when he was incamped against the Turke Though this Prince suffered al these wrongs at the Popes hands yet the ItaliaÌ„s raile mightily on him and magnifie the Pope in al his doings Blondus in fauor of the Pope dealeth very spitefully with Frederik the second Naucl. gene 41. anno 1229. Blondus helpeth Pope Gregories tale â—londus Decad. 2. lib. 7. Blondus false sâ—rmise of Frederike What wil not Italian wittes doe when they be displeased Platina in Gregorio 9. Frederike recouered the kingdome of Ierusalem froÌ„ the Turke The Pope grieued with the Princes returne because his presence would hinder the Popes practises The Prince had been well occupied to stand fighting for Christes sepulcher whiles the Pope spoiled him in the meane time of his kingdome at home The holy land did the Pope good seruice The Pope rather encreased
than resisted the Turks power The Pope himselfe spoiled the west Empire betraied the East to the Turke Italy shaken into shiuers by the Pope And so likewise Germany The Emperor dieted lest he should get strength to wrastle with the Pope The holy laÌ„d vsed as a coÌ„tinuall issue to weakeÌ„ christian Princes left they shuld stirre against the Pope at home The Pope would neuer aâ—sist the Grecians against the Turke The Grecians were deliuered as a pray to the Turke by the Pope and his adherents The price of one dinner at the Popes table and yet Blondus thinketh it was to good cheape Blonduâ— decad 2. lib. 7. The Princes deputie did but defend his masters right inheritance while he was in his voiage against the Turke The Pope after the receit of so much mony persued the Emperour worse than before They came into the field against him as if he had been a Turkâ— why should not he recoÌ„pence them as rebels The crosse first vsed against infidels for Christs glorie the Pope turneth against ChristiaÌ„ Princes to reuenge his priuate enmitie The cause of the second quarel betweene the Pope this Emperour The pope first armed the subiectes against their Prince theÌ„ deposed him for seeking to subdue them with force of armes that rebelled against him Platina in Gregor 9. Blondus decad 25. lib. 7. Naucl. generat 42. anno 1238. The originall of this second war betweene the Prince the Pope The Popes legates were in the field against Frederike when the Prince came to recouer his own Gregory nourished the coÌ„spiracy which Adrian made to keepe the Emperor out of Italie The Popes peace was this that the Emperor should loose all his right in Italie Naucler gener 40. anno 1183. The Prince perceiuing the Popes purpose would make no such peace How needfull it was for the Prince not to giue ouer his right in Italie The Italians hate the Germane Emperours Platina in Gregorio 9. What pranks were plaid with Fredericke before he â—ought reuenge The Princes cause being good his reueÌ„ge was both lawfull and needfull This Prince of all others most wickedly abused by Popes Naucler gener 42. anno 1242. Sexti Decretal lib. 2. de senten reiudicat ¶ ad Apostolice § vt ad Fredericke charged with periurie Sext. Decret li. 2. vt supra The Pope chargeth the Prince with periurie for repressing that rebellion which the Pope fauored With Sacrilege The Pope maketh it Sacrilege for a Prince to imprisoÌ„ a rebellious priest Naucler gener 42. anno 1240. With heresie The Pope proceedeth against the Emperour vpon suspition With iniurie Frederik offered no wrong in defending his owne Sexti Decret li. 2. vt supra * Naucler gener 38. anno 1137. Naucler gener 38. anno 1138. The King of Sicilie conspireth against the Emperor to keep him from recouering his right in Sicilie Naucler gener 40. anno 1186. Naucler gener 40. anno 1193. 1194. Fredericke the second had a double right to Sicilie Vide Naucler anno 1138. 1210. The Pope had only a peÌ„sion out of Sicilie The souÌ„dnes of the Popes ceÌ„sure against the Prince What iustice Princes may looke for in the Popes consistorie The Pope a verie patâ—ent discreet Iudge Naâ—xlâ—â— gener 42. anno 1246. Would it not doe Princes good to haue such a ioylie Iudge Naucler gener 42. anno 1242. The Popes power to depose Princes vttâ—rly denied in those daies What a fier the popes proceeding sâ—â—dled in Italie Naucler gener 42. anno 1240. Blondus decad 2. lib. 7. Horrible tumults ensued this depositioÌ„ of Frederike Germanie reiecteth the Popes proceedings against Friderike Auent annal boior lib. 7. fol. 675. What germanie thought of the Popes enterprise Auent lib. 7. fol. 674. What intertainment the Popes nuncioes had in Germanie Auent lib. 7. fol. 677. The Popes agent accursed in euery Church as a pestileÌ„t arch-heretike Auent annal lib. 7. fol. 683. The Pope liuelie described in his colours The Romish warfare Ibidem fol. 684. Hildebrand the first layer of this plot Ibidem What the Pope seeketh for by warring with Pâ—inces The seruant of seruaunts affecteth to be Lord of Lords The right portraiture of the Pope He was elected 1200. The Bishops of their owne religioÌ„ haue detested the Popes pride in deposing Princes Naucler gener 42. anno 1247. The new elect against Fredericke had smal ioy of their promotion Cuspinian in Frideric 2. The Popes weapons against Princes Naucler gener 44. anno 1313. Lodouike deposed without all cause Platina in Clemente 5. Be not these weighty causes to depose a Prince Naucler gener 44. anno 1314. Auent lib. 7. fol. 748. Lodouickes election Naucler Ibid. The Pope deposed the prince becaus he would not looke on whiles the Popes factioÌ„ did ransacke the Empire Naucler gener 45. anno 1324. The Pope calleth his furious factioÌ„ the Church Naucler gener 45. anno 1324. Pope Iohns doings misliked both of lawiers and diuines Naucler gener 45. anno 1335. And by his own successor Naucler gener 45. anno 1338. Al the prelats and Princes of Germanie tooke with Lodouike against the Pope Naucler gener 45. anno 1338. Thesâ— principles were defended by the Emperor al his adhereÌ„ts Auent lib. 7. fol. 761. Pope Iohns proceedings repugnant to the Lawes of God Defensor pacis Marsil Patin The Pope maketh it heresie to speake against his pride Naucler gener 45. anno 1338. Naucler Ibid. Heâ—esie to denie the Popes temporal dominion Rom. 13. Luke â—2 And so was it to speake against his wastful and excessiue wealth Caus. 12. quaeâ—t 1. ¶ dilectissiâ—â— Sexti Decretal lib. 5. de verb. significat cap. 3. Platina in Ioan. 23. Platina liketh not pope Iohns decretal against the Franciscanes What the Franciscanes ment by their assertion Why the Pope could not digest their doctrine The Pope peruerted the meaning of the wretched Friers The Pope would no peace with Lodouicke but on such conditions as no Swine-heard would accept Naucler gener 45. anno 1343. Where he should be sure to be well vsed Naucler gener 45. anno 1344. The Germans would suffer no such submission A pact made by the Pope to choose an other Emperour AueÌ„t lib. 7. fol. 785. The germans sweare afresh to Lodouike after the pope had deposed him Auent lib 7. fol 787. Naucler gener 45. an 1346. Fredericke drenched Naucler gener 45. an 1347. Cuspinian in Friderico 2. Naucler anno 1347. Naucler anno 1348 Naucler anno 1350. An other elect poisoned King Iohns cause Fructus temporum lib. 7. Gualterus Hemingfordus Gisburnens The monkes turne this poyson to a surfeit Polydor. lib. 15. Anglicae historie in Iohanne Stephen Langhtons election Matth. Paris anno 1207. The Pope disanulled both because he would place a Cardinall of his owne Matth. Paris anno 1207. The monkes forced for feare to chose Stephen Langhton at Rome The goodnes of this election must hang on the Popes infinite power otherwise it had neither lawe
The Popes power ouer Princes vsurped Rom. 13. Supreme is a manifest deduction out of S. Paul Supreme ouer Persons not ouer things We may not limit where we will obey the sword where not Where they may commaund we must obey We may not resist them but with reuerence indure them though they coÌ„mand against God and his truth Heathen Tyraunts had power of the sword ouer Christ and his Apostles Christ submitted himselfe to the Magistrate So Paul Peter both did and taught 1. Pet. 4. Rom. 13. Whom we must indure in that which is euill those must we obey in that which is good Aug. Epist. 50. Idem Epist. 166. The summe of the doctrine which we teach concerning the Princes supremacie The Iesuites iestes wherewith they mocke the Reader THE DIRECTION of PRINCES VNTO TRVETH Princes must take good care to come by faithfull direction The right directors vnto truth must be discerned by their doctrine not by their dignitie No mortall man may Iohn 14. 1. Iohn 5. * Iohn 5. 8. De Nuptijs ad Valentin lib. 2. â—ap 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad â—ermenianum Iohn 17. Bishops no iudges of the word of God The church is not iudge of the Scriptures Iohn 10. * Iames 4. Aust. in Psal. 2. * Idem de vera religione ca. 31. * Idem confess lib. 13. cap. 23. * Contra Cresc lib. 2. cap. 31. Idem Epist. 19. ad Hieronym Iudging taken for discerning Onely God must limit what is truth what error To discerne truth belongeth to all God willeth all men to trie spirites 1. Iohn 4. Matth. 7. And to discerne false teachers Iohn 10. The people must discerne teachers by their doctrine 1. Corinth 10. 1. Corinth 11. * Matth. 24. Colos. 8. Ephes. 5. 1. Iohn 3. * Heb. 5. 1. Corinth 14. Orig in Jeâ—â—â— Naue hom 2. The Fathers referred them selues to the iudgement of the hearers Ambros. Epi. li. 5. orat in Aux Luke 10. Matt. 10. The people haue libertie to discerne and charge to beware seducers Matth. 24. Matth. 23. The people not bound to beleeue the Pharisees doctrine except it accorded to the law of God Aug. in Iohan. tractat 46. Matth. 16. Ibidem vers 11â— 1. Iohn 4. 1. Thes. 5. Rom. 12. Philip. 1. 1. Corinth 2. The whole Scriptures giue the people leaue to discerne the truth and require them so to do Princes haue the same libertie to discerne trie spirites that priuate men haue The former precepts comprise the Prince aswell as the people Heb. 13. Vers. 7. No man bouÌ„d to the Preacher farther than he speaketh truth The Apostles tied to that condition 1. Pet. 1. * 1. Iohn 1. 1. Corinth 4. Galat. 1. The Angels themselues limited to that rule 1. Corinth 7. 1. Corinth 17. Chrysost. in 1. cap. 2. Epist. ad Timoth. hom 2. * Tertul. de praescript advers haereticâ—s * Chrysost. operis imperfect hom 20. in 7. ca. Mat. Much more teachers that are but seruantes of the law and therfore bouÌ„d vnto the law Princes must obey Bishops because they speak in Gods name and not in their owne Act. 20. Bishops haue commission to feede not to rule their flocks 1. Pet. 5. Iohn 21. They be superiour in teaching not in power to commaund and punish Their functioÌ„ is more perfect excellent because God worketh by their hands and mouthes Aug. contra Crescon lib. 4. cap. 6. Aug. in Psa. 10 In 1. cap. 2. epist. ad Tim. hom 2. De spiritu san lib. 3. cap. 19. 1. Corin. 1. 1. Corin. 3 The word sacramentes serue not to aduaunce the Preachers person The Preachers cal for subiection reuerence to their master not to themselues * 2. Corinth 4. * Mark 10. â— Corint 9. The trueth of God is tied to no certaine persons nor places Peters fayth is trueth in deede but that must be taken out of his owne writings not other mens reports No successour may be trusted against or besides the Apostles writings No poynt of fayth vnwritten Rom. 10. Basil. in sermone de fide Idem in Ethiciâ— definiâ— 8. Hilar. ad Constantium August Idem de Trinit lib. 9. Hieron aduersus Helnidium IdeÌ„ in Psal. 86. Tertul. de praescript aduers. haereticoâ— Idem aduersus HermogeneÌ„ Ambros. de virginibus li. 3. Ireneus lib. 3. cap. 1. Cyril de recta fide ad Reginas lib. 2. August de Pastoribus cap. 11. Idem contra literas Petiliani lib. 3. cap. 6. Caus. 11. quaest 3. § si is qui preaest No person nor place may be trusted in matters of faith besides and without the scriptures The best direction for Princes is the word of God Psal. 118. Deut. 17. Deut. 12. Esai 8. Luk. 16. Hieron Cap. 1. in epist. ad Galatas Tertullian de praescriptionib Tertullian vâ— supra Heretikes therfore couet a shew of scriptures because they be the grouÌ„ds of all trueth No tribunall on earth to the which trueth is fastned Where trueth is in doubt the Church is in more doubt The shepheards voice is not knoweÌ„ by the sheepe but the sheep by hearing the sheepheards voice * Iohn 10. Apolog. Cap. 4. sect 28. Succession is no sure direction vnto trueth Ireneus lib. 4. Cap. 43. Cap. 44. Cap. 45. Act. 20. Mat. 7. 2. Pet. 2. 2. Cor. 11. 2. Cor. 11. Bishops haue beene heretikes Bishops asseÌ„bled may erre as wel as Bishops seuered Mat. 18. Two or three haue the same promise of assistance that two or three huÌ„dred haue Councels may erre Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. * Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 9. * Euag. li. 3. ca. 4. Epist. 55 ad Proropium A generall Councel doth not differ froÌ„ a particular but only in number of persons and places Vide distinct 16 § sexta § primo * Tomo concil primo * Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 2. * Idem li. 2. c. 36. Tomo concilior primo A generall Councel erring the Church doth not erre A Councell may be reuersed by the rest that be present or absent Sozo li. 1. ca. 23. Sozo li. 2. ca. 25. Sozo li. 4. ca. 9. Leo epist. 52. ad Anatholium Ibidem Their own fellowes haue consessed that general councels might er Panor de elect electi potestate ¶ significasti Panorm IbideÌ„ A generall councel is not the Church Pigh hierarch ecclesiast lib. 6. cap. 5 4. Pighius is earnest that general CouÌ„cels haue erred in decisioÌ„ of faithes Lib. 6. Cap. 7. Lib. 6. Cap. 13. August de baptist lib. 2 cap. 3. S. Augustine confesseth that councels may erre Ibidem The second Councell of Ephesus was generall * Astio. 1. * Euagrius li. 1. Cap. 10. Reperitur chalcedonens concil actio 1. Chalced. concil actio 1. Ecclesiasticall iudges are often deceiued Contra Crescon lib. 2. cap. 21. August epist. 167. August contra Maximinum lib. 3. cap. 14. Ibidem lib. 3 cap. 14. The Arrians not bound to the authoritie of the Nicene councel The Councell of Ariminum was generall Socrat. lib. 2.