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A30542 Some of the principles of the Quakers (scornfully so called by men) vindicated and proved sound and true and according to the Scriptures in oposition to the false charges and lying reports given forth against the truth in two printed books put forth by one Philip Taverner, a supposed minister of the Gospel in Middlesex near Vxbridge ... / by Edw. Burrough. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 1658 (1658) Wing B6024; ESTC R28519 19,009 24

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not perceive the things of God nor know them yet this is not contrary to what I say that Christ Jesus lighteth every man that comes in the world which light Christ is sufficient and he changeth men from Natural to spiritual as they are brought to beleeve in Christ that hath lightned them and he opposes me as if I should say or hold forth that the Natural man perceives and knows the things of God and that the natural man hath faith which I never spoke nor entered into my mind to say so he hath drawn his evill consequence from my words and then confounded his own Conception but my words remains untouched for my saying and intent is that Christ lighteth every man that comes into the world and his light is sufficient to give faith and to change a man from natural to spiritural and to give him the perceiving and knowledge of the things of God and of his spirit and my words nor intent is no contradiction to the Apostles words though P. T. falsly judged so for want of better understanding I suppose rather than through subtilty at this turn and thus my principle is proved sound and the title of his book a lie And whereas I said that Christ wrought righteousness perfectly without us and also fulfils righteousness in all that believes and no man is justified by one of these without the other or that hath not the other pag. 12. of my first He saith whether I do not confound justification and sanctification he leaves all rational men to judge c. Reply That Christ wrought righteousness without us is not denied by him nor that he fulfils the righteousness of the Law in the Saints he cannot well deny let him read Rom 8.4 and that no man is justified by the righteousness that Christ wrought without who beleeves not nor is converted to God but in the power of Satan this all the Children of God beleeves and knowes that none are justified by Christs righteousness without but who are converted to God and hath received Christ and he is in them for else they are reprobates and not justified and so I am not ashamed of my principle though he would slander it to be too light for he that hath not Christ Gods righteousness within him is a reprobate and not justified by any righteousness without neither do I confound justification and sanctification which he falsly charges me with for they are one in Christ for he is made unto us sanctification and justification and the man that is in the pollutions of the world unsanctified is not justified but condemned so none are justisted by a righteousness without them but them that are sanctified by him within this I own and do not deny and men that are in the save corrupt reason with him must not I be judged by and also I do justifie if any work be wrought by us in the strength and power of grace and not in our own strength then it is the work of Christ in us the work of Gods own righteousness and that no work or word is justified but what the spirit of Christ leads unto and though P. T. ignorantly commenteth upon these words yet are they words of truth and righteousness and all that he saies against them proves not the contrary And whereas I did ask him which he had ignorantly affirmed in his Relation VVhether that righteousness which Christ works in us in his strength and power and not in our own is called our righteousness which he seems to answer but he hath mis-understood my words for I meant not Ours by enjoyment but Ours in the sence the Prophet speaks when he said our Righteousness is as filthy Raggs I know the Righteousness that Christ works in us by his Spirit and the power of his Grace is Ours by enjoyment in the second Adam as the gift of God to us but not Ours in the first Adam in the righteousness of the Law in the state not converted and that was the strength of my Query where that Righteousness wrought in us by the Spirit and strength of Christ and not in our own is called our Righteousness ours as in the first Adam but I see thou hast not understood the meaning of my Query for weakness of understanding and then how should thou rightly answer it Also I Queried How Christ working Righteousness in us by the power of grace not by our own strength can be called the righteousness of the Law which he had affirmed now I meant the righteousness of the Law in the flesh and not in the Spirit I know the working of Christ both in us to will and to do by his Spirit and strength and power of Grace is the fulfilling the righteousness of the Law by Christ in us but it is not the righteousness of the Law in the flesh wrought by us as unborn again but to this thou hast not answered but hast answered thy own conceiving and not the innocency of my Queries And whereas he stumbles and is offended because I said No man is justified in any word or work but what they are lead unto by the Spirit and those words and works the Spirit leads unto are justified and no other words or works and from this he would falsely conjecture I hold a justification by works and by something without or besides that which Christ wrought without I say no by the deeds of the Law shall no flesh living be justified but yet he that moveth and leadeth into words and works of Truth and Righteousness the same doth justifie the Creature in the words and works which he is lead unto and this is not in opposition to the Apostles words which he seems to bring against me Rom. 5.8 9. Whiles we were sinners Christ dyed for us much more being justified by his blood we shall be saved from the wrath this is not contrary to what I say for we do own the blood of Jesus to justifie but yet not such who are not cleansed by it and lead by the Spirit into all truth but it is they that are justified only who are lead into all Truth by the Spirit such are justified by his blood in the Spirit and saved from wrath who are born of the immortal Word but they that remain in sin are not justified nor saved from wrath Then he Queries VVhether I shut pardon of sin out of doors I answer no for they that are lead into all Truth by the Spirit their sins are pardoned and forgiven and remembred no more but blotted out and cannot be read for they are cleansed from it and commits not sin then he asks VVhether I grant two formal causes of Iustification the one forgiveness of sin the other inherent righteousness I say both the cause and the work of Righteousness is in God his free love and mercy which is over all his works and they receive the work of it and the gift of it that are lead by the Spirit as the effect
thereof and none else though he ask VVhether forgiveness of sin hath its rice from what Christ works in us or from what Christ hath done and suffered for us I say whatsoever Christ hath done and suffered without man while man hath not received Christ nor the work of Christ in him but remains in the first Adam in transgression the true work and ground of justification he knows not nor hath not neither knows the Mediatorship between God and him then in the conclusion of this matter P.T. saith Thus far to sh●w E. B. and the truth are not so well agreed but he that cleaves to one must forsake the other c. Reply Hold Friend come back again what hast thou proved yet any thing against me save that I hold the truth thou hast drawn a conclusion too soon without sound evidence and thou must not be judge in thy own cause neither hast thou proved me and the truth to disagree ever a whit as just men may judge it appears thou art the man that seems to be righteousness in thy own eye and justifies thy self and would condemn the righteous and though thou say we do not agree viz. E. B. and the truth yet thou hast not nor never is able to prove it for all that are sanctified are justified and none are justified but them that are sanctified though not as a cause yet as the fruit and effect which will appear in that man that is justified The next thing he observes whereas I said It is true a publick Dispute I had the time and place mentioned with a company of Priests and this same Ph. Taverner was one of them c. First P. T. in answer to this hath pleaded for the honourable Name of Priests Reply Yea the Name is honourable who are come to the Priesthood that was made after the power of an endless life to which P.T. and the Generation of Priests are not yet come as they make manifest but that Priesthood was not my meaning neither did I speak scornfully and reproachfully against any that labour in the Ministry of the Word as he falsely charges me line 34 35. but the people might know who I meant by that word Priest for Ministers of the Gospel I could not call them that are not so without offence to my Conscience because I am taught to speak the truth in all things but Priests I may call them such I mean as disputed against Christ and spake against him the Priests that were subverted from Gods Law and that are persecutors of the innocent such Priests I mean and lawfully and truly such Priests I may call them And as for labouring in the Ministry of the Word which he signifies as if they did do not they labour to get peoples Money and Tithes the tenth of Corn and Hay and Eggs and Pigs and Stipends so much a year or so much a Sermon if it be not thus with some at least let the Country thereabouts judge and what was the meaning that P. T. himself was about removing from one Parish to another a little while since except for money and hire tell not of the Ministry of the VVord till ye repent and reform your selves by denying your Hire and Tithes and old Papish waies and Houses called your Churches and all your practises of Popish Priests for your Garments yet smel hereof and your wages give evidence that you are of the stock of the Papish Priests Priests that persecuted Christ to death not of the stock of the Priests truly called ordained under the Law keeping the Covenant nor yet Priests in the Gospel administration for I know you deserve not the Title of Priests upon neither of these accounts and as for scorning with which thou chargest me thy charge is false yet am I brought to glory in the Lord over all the false Prophets and Deceivers rejoycing with a holy derision even as the Virgin the Daughter of Sion despised and laughed to scorn Sennacherib Isai. 37.22 and in no other sence And whereas I said to the people about Draton concerning their Teachers Cease O cease from your Teachers without you and hearken to the voice of the Lord from them who are dumb Shepheards and preach for hire that take gifts and rewards for Preaching c. as in the 17 and 18 pages of my first to this he saith and Queries VVhy am I a teacher of them called Quakers and saith my charge is high but do not I charge it salsely upon some who are as far from the guilt of it as my self and thus he goes on page 19. Reply Good reason I have to bid you cease from all their Teachers without even as the Prophet Isa. 55.1 2. I answer I am no such kind a Teacher as preaches for hire and divines for money and for great gifts and rewards and that doth make merchandice of Souls yet am I one that turns people from darkness to light and from Satans power to God and to the annointing that it may dwell in them that they may need no man to teach them and such were the Apostles and them that are sent of Christ but such Teachers I would have them to cease from where people are alwaies learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth 2 Tim. 3. and such Teachers are you about Draton as well doth appear and between these two kind of Teachers there is a great difference and though my charge is high yet is it just and I charge none falsely herein for who can clear themselves from the guilt of it of that Generation if any I condemn them not but can P.T. do it ask his Neighbours hath not he sums of money by the year Tythes or other wages for preaching try him give him nothing for a year or two and then if he preach to you and never complain for want of wages and money then I will believe he is clear and then he may better boast than he can now and as for divers of that Function in that County they have cast men into Prison where they yet lye and taken suit of them at Law and taken their Goods because some could not for Conscience sake give you Hire and Tythes and Money and are these free or guilty of my charge let the Lord judge and all his Saints He saith He doth not plead for all who go under the name of Ministers in England he fears there is many of them no better than VVolves in Sheeps cloathing c. Then why doth he not come out and cry against them but remain amongst them in their practice for wherein can he clear himself of any one thing which they are guilty of which he confesses are VVolves in Sheeps cloathing was not his Call the same with theirs and is not his practice in Ministery and maintenance generally the same with theirs if he have ought to say to clear himself we will answer further otherwise all men shall judge that while he