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A34065 The examiner examined being a vindication of the History of liturgies / by T.C., D.D. Comber, Thomas, 1645-1699. 1691 (1691) Wing C5465; ESTC R23336 57,285 70

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the manner of praying to the Father that we may be heard more easily are those Instructions that spiritual and true Prayer pronounced by Christ's mouth are they Christ's prayer which ascends to his Fathers ears and are owned by him as his Sons words when we pray is our following his Instructions asking forgiveness in his own words and by his own Prayer Alas to what absurdities hath his Resolution to defend an ill cause reduced him 'T is true S. Cyprian digresseth a little as Tertullian had done to explain the directions which our Lord gave about the manner of praying but he soon returns to the Form it self repeating it verbatim and as he explains every single Petition affirming that the Christians said so and so in their Prayers And it is clear from him that they both used this Prayer and others formed by this pattern wherefore alitèr orare praying otherwise in S. Cyprian which he so severely censures cannot be designed to condemn those Churches who framed other Forms by this pattern and always used this Form for one as our Church hath done it is levelled at those who either wholly omit the Lords Prayer or in their arbitrary Composures take no care to suit them to this Heavenly pattern of both which some Dissenters are guilty He concludes with observing that I noted Origen's phrase of using Prayers imported they were composed by others and he wonders what I would note upon Cyprian's phrase of making Prayers And I have a Note upon that which will not please him viz. That S. Cyprian saith a Man makes his Prayer when he uses the very words of the Lords Prayer the Form of Christ's making And if Mr. S. B. would infer from hence That they prayed extempore or arbitrarily he cannot draw that conclusion from S. Cyprian where he that prays by a Form is said precem facere to make a Prayer So that using Prayers in Origen plainly supposes them made before-hand but making Prayers here do not at all suppose them to be Extempore nor can they infer that from the words of S. Paul who would have prayers c. to be made for all men 1 Tim. ii 1. Pag. 44. I brought that passage in S. Cyprian Publica est nobis communis oratio to prove that the Congregation vocally joyned with the Priest in prayers which doth suppose a Set Form Mr. S. B. saith Common-prayer signifies no more than that we must pray for all People Now S. Cyprian indeed doth make this one sense of Common-prayer as appears by the words he cites but then the Father goes on to shew that the Lords Prayer for it is of that he speaks is a Common prayer because it is said as that of the Three Children was Who saith he all agreed in their prayer in voices as well as in hearts and sung their Hymn as it were with one mouth note here the meaning of that phrase And so saith he did the Apostles who are said to pray with one accord Thus far S. Cyprian Mr. S. B. wholly omits this sense of a Common-prayer and which is worse denies that this is any meaning of it But let it be considered that the people then vocally repeated the Lords Prayer the Common-prayer here spoken of and let it be remembred what I said about 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon pag. 20. and then I hope it will be granted this is one sense of a Common-prayer that is a Form in which Priest and People may vocally joyn Yea this seems the only sense in the second Quotation which I cited Cypr. ad Cler. Pleb ep 8. We must pray for all as the Lord taught there where he enjoyned not every one a single Prayer but commanded us to pray for all men with a Common-prayer in which all agree For here S. Cyprian saith The Lords Prayer was a Prayer for all Men and then adds it was a Common-prayer Now this would be a tautology If the only sense of a Common-prayer were a Prayer for all Men this had been as if he had said We must pray for all men in a Prayer for all men if that were all S. Cyprian might have left out Orare pro omnibus or communi prece but his using both these phrases shews not only that the subject of the Lords Prayer was general for all men but the way of using it was by the peoples joyning with the Priest and reciting it in common And if S. Cyprian believed Christ taught us to pray thus by vocal joyning in one common Form then they who will have the Minister alone make all the prayers Extempore while the people silently sit by and hear teach another manner of praying than Christ taught Pag. 45. The Preface Lift up your hearts with the Response We lift them up unto the Lord in Cypr. de orat § 22. I still take to be a firm proof of the use of alternate Forms in the public Service and think it probable he cited them out of the Liturgy A Versicle and Response is an alternate Form and S. Cyprian mentions it as a thing known and daily used in public The Centuriators infer hence That there were Forms in his time and Goulartius a learned Protestant in his Notes on the place Owns it was a Form used of old at the Eucharist where it continued to be used in S. Augustin ' s days Goular not in Cypr. p. 322. I might produce innumerable eminent Authors who are of the same Opinion but Mr. S. B. saith He is not to enquire into the Inferences which others make form this place yea he threatens me with Reflections for my observing them Which minds me of that Saying of old Fabius related by S. Hierom ad Pammach ep 26. It were happy for Arts if none but Artists might judge of them However his Reflections could not have hurt me in so good Company if he had vented them they must have returned on his own head for he that despises such Evidence brings both his learning and modesty into question Again he retires to his old Fallacy That I should first have proved there was then a Liturgy before I had supposed this passage was cited out of it I hope I have proved this to every body but Mr. S. B. who will not allow any proof to be the first and by that politick Supposition hopes to persuade such as take his word there can be no second proof but whatever become of my former Evidence in his Opinion I am sure there was one in this place which he could not answer viz. That this very Preface in so many words is found in all Liturgies of the African Eastern and Western Churches To which I add now that S. Aug. saith All Mankind as with one voice used these words de ver Rel. c. 3. And the Liturgies wherein these words are prescribed must be elder than S. Cyprian's time for S. Aug. believed this Form came from the Apostolical Age. S. Cyril who explained this Form in S.