cut halfe away of the Bishops definition which within eight lines after though nipping and wresting the woordes yet some what more truly than before he expresseth saying in those actions that may any way properly belong to the subiecte or thing gouerned Wherein he séemeth vnskilfully or as one astonnied to make no difference betwixt the subiect which is the person and the obiect which is the matter and action or not to vnderstande that properly the gouernour is not said to order and direct the obiect but the subiect in or about the obiect In which point as the Bishops definition is distinct and cleere so M. Stap. finding fault therewith but not able to saie here lieth the faulte nor to amende it and yet going about to amende it either in conclusion maketh one nothing differing in matter or farre worsse so much as it differeth from it A supreme gouernour saith M. Stapl. is he that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned not in those actiōs that may in any wise belong to the subiect or thing gouerned as M. Horne saith but in those actions that belong to the ende whereunto the gouernour tendeth This is your perfect definition M. St. which either is Idē per Idem a gouernour is he that gouerneth in those actions wherein he is a gouernour and so your fautles definition is very faultie it selfe or els it is in effect and matter all one with the Bishops definition that ye reprehende though ye would in wordes séeme to make some difference so againe it is the more vitious the more obscure it is But this may well be say you to confirme your definitiō although he haue not the chiefe gouernment in al the actions of the thing gouerned but in such actions as properly appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour M. St. we stande not now in question what may well be but what is of necessarie consequence But ye séeke out corners and darke speaches to wrappe the truth in such obscuritie after the Popishe manner that your readers might rather meruayle at ye than vnderstand ye Which if they did they should sée your folly and contradictions and that your selfe scarce vnderstād your owne wordes if they were your owne for if ye vnderstoode your selfe when ye say he hath chiefe gouernment in such actions as properly pertayne to him as a subiect to that gouernour then would ye also sée how it followeth that being a subiect to him as M. Feckenham hath confessed as well in that he is an Ecclesiasticall person as Temporall he is also a subiect to him in such actions as are so well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall The argument is euident He that is subiect to the Princes supreme gouernment is vnder him in all such actions as appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour But euery manner person so well Ecclesiasticall as Temporal borne in the Princes dominiōs is subiect to the Princes supreme gouernment Ergo The Prince hath the supreme gouernment ouer euery manner person borne in his dominions in all such actions as are Ecclesiasticall so well as Temporal And thus his owne darke speaches being brought to light make flatte agaynst him selfe But to make the Reader vnderstande his meaning better and to vnwrappe him selfe out of this obscuritie in the which he hath rather hindred than bettered his cause he setteth out the same with sundrie ensamples of a Master and his Seruaunt a Father and his Sonne a Mayor and a Citizen the Prince and his subiect a Schoolemaster and his scholers the Shipmaster and the Mariners For in one man saith he many rulers may and do dayly concurre which in some sense may euery one be called his supreme gouernour As if he be a seruant the Maister and if he be a sonne in that respect the father and if his father and Master dwell in a citie the Mayor also is the fathers maisters so his chiefe gouernour to for things concerning the chiefe gouernment of the citie and of all these the Prince chiefe and supreme gouernour as they be subiects Otherwise the Prince doth not intermeddle with the fathers office in duetifulnesse dewe to him by his sonne nor the Master for that gouernmēt he hath vpō his seruant no more than with the scholemaster for the gouernment of his schollers and their actions or the maister of the ship for the actions doings of the mariners otherwise than any of these offende the positiue lawes of the realme and so hath the Prince to do with him as his subiect or when he shal haue neede to vse them for the cōmon welth wherein as subiects and members of the said common welth they must to him obey Much like is it with the spiritual men which be also members of the said common welth and therefore in that respect subiect to the Prince and his lawes and so is it true that the Prince is supreme gouernour of all persons as well spirituall as temporall But that therefore he should also be supreme gouernour in al their actions will no more follow than of the actions of thē before rehersed yea much lesse M. St. thinketh he hath now clered the coast that by all these ensamples the matter goeth cléere with him Shewyng first how euery one of these rulers master father mayor and Prince may in some sense be called supreme gouernours But yet either he doth not or wil not sée withal how in the sense now in controuersie all these ensamples are also flat against him For as the father in all causes that haue respect from the father as father to the sonne as sonne ▪ is the sonnes supreme gouernour as he saith and as the master in all causes that haue respect from the master as master to the seruant as seruant is likewise the seruants supreme gouernour and as the mayor in all causes that haue respect frō the mayor in that he is mayor to the citizen in that he is a citizen is also the citizens supreme gouernour so the supreme gouernour of ecclesiasticall persons in all causes that haue respect from him in that he is a supreme gouernour to ecclesiasticall persons in that they be ecclesiasticall persons is in all those causes their supreme gouernour but the causes in respecte whereof they be called ecclesiasticall persons beyng no other than ecclesiasticall causes it followeth that he is not onely supreme gouernour of the persons but also in the causes belonging to the persons as the father or master is not onely supreme gouernour of the sonnes or seruaunts persons but also in those causes in respect whereof he is the sonne or seruant Yea but saith M. St. though the Prince be supreme gouernour to these and all other persons in the realme yet as he entermedleth not with father schoolemaster shipmaster c. in their seuerall actions of their offices or vocations so though the Prince be supreme gouernour of all persons ecclesiasticall yet is he not supreme gouernour in
fourth time dixit Dominus and Samuelem the Lorde sayde or as ye call it pronounced vnto Samuell c. confirming all that he had pronounced before by the former Prophet As for Samuell béeing straightly charged by Hely the hye Priest not by the way of prophecie pronounced those words of the Lords to him or to any other but onely shewed him al that God had sayde Indicauit ei vniuersos sermones non abscondit ab eo And Samuell tolde him euery whit of the â—…ayings and hidde it not from him And therefore where ye say he onely executed the sentence pronounced before by Samuell Gods minister as though God had prophecied it by the mouth of Samuell as he did in the chapter before by an other and as ye say in your Counterblast published before by Samuell the Leuite the texte mentioning neither the pronouncing nor publishing of this sentence by Samuell at all but onely the fore sayde maner of priuate telling to Hely what he heard God pronounce it is but an vntruthe in your selfe to tell your tale so to your aduauntage that it might séeme that Salomon was but the executour of some solemne sentence published and pronounced before by Samuell commaunding or mouing king Salomon to obey that senteÌ„ce and so to depose Abiathar And héere appeares also your other vntruthe that Salomon shoulde doe it to this ende and intent to fulfill this prophecie Which in déede he fulfilled in the dooing but it was not fulfilled by him alone king Saule had fulfilled a greate parte of it before in causing to be killed wickedly the whole familie of Hely excepte onely this Abiathar that escaped by flighte Whiche cruell facte of Saule proceeding onely of méere malice agaynst Dauid and furder agaynst them as Dauids abettours fautours was the onely cause of this tyrannie and not to fulfil Gods prophecie Neither coulde he pretende it and yet he fulfilled the same when he fulfilled his wicked luste But Salomon that deposed Abiathar the onely remaynder of Helies stocke and his sonnes after him had good and righte cause to depriue him and all his posteritie of thys dignitie bicause he was as your selfe confesse a traytour to him For which cause Salomon deposed him and layde this cause to his charge onely not that he must execute Gods sentence of punishing his fathers offence and yet in doing the one he perfourmed the other also Bothe of these Princes were executours of Gods sentence that wrought by his secrete Iustice what soeuer he purposed yea as well by the euill deede of Saule as by the righteous déede of Salomon And things foretolde in the scripture came not to passe bicause they were foretold but bicause they should come to passe therfore they were foretold God did foretell what he would do to that house yet he named not by whom so that none could pretend to do it bicause God had foretold it but when God had done it by suche instruments as he purposed good or bad then the writers of the scripture by the instruction of the holy ghost bicause of the certenty of Gods prophecie doe say it was done to fulfill suche or suche a thing So when Herod had killed the innocents sayth S. Mathew tunc adimpletuÌ„ est theÌ„ was fulfilled that which was spoken by the Prophet Ieremie of which kinde of spéeche as well in factes of the godly as the vngodly we haue many ensamples Though therefore the wordes of the Scripture be Eiccit ergo Salomon Abiathar vt non esset sacerdos domini vt impleretur seâ—…mo Domini quem locutus est super domum Heli in Silo And so Salomon cast out Abiathar from being the priest of the Lorde that the Lordes wordes might be fulfilled which he spake vpon the house of Hely in Silo yet doe not these wordes import that Salomon did it of this purpose to fulfill that prophecie as you woulde make the reader to vnderstande by youre guylefull translation saying And so Salomon put out Abiathar c. to fulfil the words of the Lord as though the cause why he did it was that when the cause was Abiathars treason and therfore he tolde him before he was â—…ilius mortis the childe of death id est sayth Lyra morte dignus pro conspiratione coÌ„trame â—…rdinationem Dei patris mei that is to say Thou art worthie to suffer death for thy conspirâ—…cie against me and the ordinance of God and of my father Here is the verie cause why Salomon deposed him although also he fulfilled therein Gods secret iustice whiche the holie writer considering wrote vt adimpleretur that the Lordes woordes might be fulfilled c. And thus whyle yée would charge the Bishop with one lye euen your self discharge him and you committe a couple for failing to menâ—… the matter withall Neyther the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued in any thing pertayning to their office from that the king commaunded them The 43. vntruhe those woordes are not in the Scripture alleaged These wordes make a heynous quarell at which wordes also in his Counterblast he stormeth saying He hath swarued lewdly from the text added wordes more than is exprest and that with suche homely shiftes an yll cause must be furthered And when all is done it is but a little parenthesis placed in the middle of the text by the way of explication tâ—… declare wherein the king commâ—…ded them and they obeyed in their offices nexte before set out howe the king ordeyned according to the disposition of Dauid his father the offices of the Priests in their ministeries and the Leuites in their orders to prayse God and minister before the Priests according to the custome of euery day and the porters in their diuisions porte by porte for so had Dauid a man of God commaunded and neither the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued from any thing that the king commaunded Thus lyeth the texte worde for worde Wherein the Bishop placing this parenthesis â–ª what did he that any most exacte interpreter might not do M Stap. héere escrieth it for so horrible a cryme yea and an vntruthe of his bedroll withall wheraâ—… first there is no vntruthe at all in the parenthesis and himselfe in the same chapter confesseth for Princes a great deale more that they may not onely commaunde the Priests to do those things that appertayne to their office but cause them to do them which is a manyfest proofe of the Princes supreme authoritie 〈◊〉 them so that vntruthe in this parenthesis was there none Nor any other faulte at all sauing that M. Stapleton was frowardly disposed to picke a quarell at the forme and print of the letter not at the matter as though those wordes were pretended to be the wordes of the texte wherein he himselfe though there were some negligence in the printing dothe yet excuse the Bishop of this faulte of any suche addition of wordes For twice in his Counterblast mentioning those
c. In deede sayth he the bodie of Marie was holye but God it was not The Virgin was a Virgin in deede and honorable but she was not giuen to vs to be worshipped but hir selfe worshipped him that was borne of hir who came to hir from heauen out of his fathers bosome And for this cause dothe the Gospell arme vs telling that whiche the Lorde spake woman what haue I to do with thee mine houre is not yet come least any should thinke the holy virgin to be more excellent he calleth hir woman as it were prophecying suche thinges as by reason of sectes shoulde come to passe on the earth Least that any bodye maruelling too muche at the holy Virgin slippe into this heresie and these dotages For all the handling of thys heresie is but a mockerie and as a man maye saye an olde wyues tale For what Scripture hathe euer declared whiche of the Prophetes commaunded man to be worshipped muche lesse a woman shee is in deede an excellent vessell but a woman and nothing chaunged from hir nature Shee is honorable in honoure bothe in vnderstanding and sense euen as are the bodies of the Sainctes And if to hir glorifying I should haue sayde somewhat more euen as Helias a virgin from his mother and so still remayning was translated and sawe not deathe euen as Iohn that leaned on the Lordes breast whome Iesus loued euen as sainct Thecla Yea Marie is yet more honorable for the dispensation of the mysterie wherewith shee was made woorthie But neither Helias is to be worshipped althoughe he be yet alyue neither is Iohn to be worshipped althoughe by his prayers he obtayned his wonderfull sleepe or rather hee obtayned grace of God Nor yet Thecla neyther any Saynct is worshipped For the auncient errour shall not master vs that leauing the lyuing God wee shoulde worshippe those thinges that are made of hym For they worshipped and honoured the Creature more than the Creator and became fooles If he wyll not haue Angels to be adored howe muche more will he not haue hir whiche was engendred of Anne which was giuen to Anne of Ioachim which by their prayers and all their diligence according to the promise to hir father and mother was giuen yet was she not engendred beyonde the nature of men but as all are of the seede of a man and the wombe of a woman c. For it is vnpossible for any to bee engendred on earth beyonde the nature of man Only it was sitting for him nature gaue place to him alone he as the work master and hauing powre of the matter fourmed him self of the Virgin as it were of the earth VVho beeing God the word discended froÌ„ heauen â–ª and put on flesh of the Virgin Mary but not that the Virgin shoulde be worshipped not that he would make hir a God nor that we should offer in the name of hir c. he suffred hir not to giue baptisme nor to blesse the disciples he bad hir not rule in the earthe but onely that she shoulde haue hir sanctification and bee made worthy of his kingdome From wheÌ„ce then commeth agayne to vs the round Dragon that wrappeth him self on a heape fro wheÌ„ce are these Councels renewed for any cause Let Mary be had in honor let be worshipped the father the sonne and the holy ghost let no man worship Mary I say not a woman no not a man This mysterie is due to God the Angels receiue not suche glorifying Let the thinges euill written he rased cleane oute of the hearte of those that are deceyued let the luste of the tree be taken out of their eyes let it tourne to the Lorde that framed it let Eue vvith Adam feare God that shee maye vvorshippe him onely least shee be ledde by the Serpentes voyce But let hir abyde stedfast in Gods commaundement eate not of the tree Let no body eate of the errour that is for sainct Mary For thoughe the tree bee fayre yet it is not to be eaten althoughe Mary bee moste fayre and holy and honorable yet is she not to be adored But these Arabicke women worshipping Mary do renue again the mixture to Fortune and prepare a table to the Diuell not to God as it is written they are fedde with the meat of wickednesse And agayne And their women do boult flowre and their children gather stickes to make cakes kneaded with oyle to the Q. of heaueÌ„ Let suche women be put to silence by Hieremie and let them not trouble the worlde let them not saye wee honour the queene of heauen c. Thus sayth Epiphanius and muche more neither for hir only though chiefly for hir but in generall for all the Saintes Non conuenit colere sanctos c. It is not mete to woorshippe the Sainctes beyonde comelynesse but it is meete to honour the Lorde of them let the errour therfore ceasse of those that be seduced Nowe if ye say vnto me all this is spoken againste the worship of offring to hir and sacrifising to hir not for inuocation of hir first this shift is false M. Sta. for Inuocation in déede is the chiefest worship that we can giue not of the lips so much as of the heart farre aboue any outwarde sacrifice of the bodie and therefore to be muche more giuen to God alone as S. Aug. reasoneth Sicut orantes c. Euen as when wee praye and prayse wee directe signifying vowes vnto God when we offer the verie thinges in our heart the whiche we signifie so sacrifycing we know that no visible sacrifice ought to be offred to any other than to him to whom we our selues ought to be an inuisible sacrifice As therfore no bodily sacrifice may be directed to any but to God so knew Epiphanius that all spirituall sacrifice is onely due to god And therefore he so little ascribeth it to hir or any other that bothe in the beginning of his treaiise and in the ende he maketh his inuocations onely to god Saying in the beginning Nunc autem clarè c. But let vs now clearely speake of the heresie it selfe and inuocating God as we will adioyne confutation agaynst it c. And in the ende thereof Ad vnam illam c. Let vs proceede to that onely heresie which is yet vntouched inuocating God that he would helpe vs c. Thus ye sée to whome he ascribeth inuocation not to hir of whom he writeth or to any other saincte but alonely to god This shifte fayleth therefore in saying he writeth onely agaynst offring and sacrificing to hir But setting all this aside haue not you I beséeche you offred and sacrificed to hir I pray you turne back agayne to those your prayers whiche I haue cited that playnely confesse the facts and glorie therein Neither coulde they tell by what meanes they shoulde worshippe hir inoughe But if it yrke ye to turne to that whiche was so yrkesome to reade before I will shâ—…we you yet once more so playne a
commendations these vertues so highly coÌ„mended are both a goodly and godly president for all Princes to set before them Thus much therefore to the former winde of your counterblast Now to the later which after all these long discourses draweth somewhat néerer to the matter in admitting the authour Nicephorus his testimonies and the Emperours doings and answering to the Bishops allegations thereon The effect whereof is to improue all that is alleaged as insufficient to inferre this supremacie And it is quartred into foure partes Firste prâ—…supposing this Prince to be Andronicus all 〈◊〉 doing about to be the reuoking of Michâ—…els yelding to the Pope at the Councell at Lions he 〈◊〉 to proue that not 〈◊〉 but the Priestes though wicked had the chiefe â—…uperioritie Secondly he 〈◊〉 against the gathering and sorting of the Bishops 〈◊〉 Thirdly he entreth into the inualiditie of the allegacions And fourthly here vpon he maketh his triumph and 〈◊〉 thanks for the victorie In the first parcell sayeth M. Stapleton But now M. Horne what if these hereticall doyngs do nothing releeue your cause nor necessarily induce the chiefe superioritie in all causes and perchaunce in no cause Ecclesiasticall concerning the finall discussing and determination of the same verily without any perchaunce it is most plainly and certainely true it doth not For euen in this Schismaticall councell and hereticall fynagog the Bishops played the chiefe parte and they gaue the finall though a wrong and a wicked iudgement VVho also shewed their superioritie though vngodly vppon this mans Father in that they would not suffer him to be enterred Princelike them selues much more worthy to haue bene cast after their decease to the Dogges and Rauens vppon â—… durtie doonghill What those Priests were worthie we haue your worthie iudgement M. Stapleton whereby we perceiue your Priests can erre although they be Massemongers and by your former sayings Reuerent worshippers of Images too But all will not helpe they are adiudged to be cast on a dâ—…rtje doonghill to be deuoured of Dogges and Raues bicause they would not suffer â–ª Michael Paleologus their Emperour who notwithstanding intruded him selfe by violence to be enterred Prince like I pray you M. Stap. be an vpright iudge What then are those Priests much more worthy that would not suffer their liuing Princes to vse their princely authoritie what are those Popes more worthie â–ª that haue not onely not suffred their predecessours to be enâ—…orted Pope like but haue pulled them out of the ground againe and hacked and mangled them What are those prelates worthie that haue caused the Priestes and the people to renounce their obedience to their sworne Princes I thinke ye will not say these should be â–ª call out on durtie doonghils and yet their faulte is as much as the other it is to be feared least they shal be cast out into vtter darkenesse â–ª But ye do a little to much charge the Gréeke Priestes with the whole burden of this crime It was not onely they as Uolaterane saith but it was the whole nation as Baptist Egnatius writeth as is also noted in Laugus his margine Ex qua tuntam â—…nuidiam â–ª c. VVherevppon he gotte so great enuie of the Greeke notion that neither they performed the obsequies of the dead also denied him the place of his Sepulchre But you applie it onely vnto the Priestes that their superioritie might the more appeare For which purpose you direct all your tale to sette foorth their superioritie euen in such as ye call wicked and hereticall doings whereas the Princes claime is not for any such superioritie in wicked doings but onely in Godly and Christian causes Ye driue all the matter to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghosts proceeding and to Andronicus cealing therein against the dealing of his Father In 〈◊〉 thus do the last editions of Nicephorus Printed at Paris 1562. and 1566. whether truely or no is doubtfull to say referre al to Andronicus and euer in the place of Emaâ—…el put Andronicus and for driâ—…ing away of the Turkes put in the anulling of the doings at Lions Councell Which sentence soeuer be the truer either the former which the Bishop followed or the later which you follow yet caÌ„ you not go so round away with the matter but that euen Michael which yéelded to the Pope mangre all his Priestes and made them perforce while he liued to acknowledge the Pope shewed therein a superioritie â—…uer them which I thinke ye will not call a tiranâ—…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gaue it ouer to the Pope And his sonne in doing the contrarie euen in the Councell ye mention sheweth also a supreme dealing therein And that supreme dealing that you most stiffly denie to Princes to wâ—…te the calling of Councels the Patriarch did it not but the Prince 〈◊〉 as your selfe haâ—… confessed before that he after his Fathers death suâ—…moned a Councell of the Grecians And so sayeth Langus in the Margine of the Preface Imperatoriâ—… istius ductu c. By the guydance of this Emperour in the Councell the Easterne Bishops contrarie to the Westerne decreed that the holy Ghost proceeded onely from the Father But not long after by his Nephewe Iohn Paleologus being Emperour in the Synode at Florence holden in the yeere of the Lorde 1439. the Grecians accorded to the determination of the Latines in so much that they professed the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne when they were perswaded that the Latines beleeued God the Father to be the onely cause of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and that they accursed the being of twoo beginnings or two causes in the consubstantiall Trinitie Which sentâ—…nce as it sheweth the 〈◊〉 to be called by the 〈◊〉 â–ª so it sheweth the cause of the Gréekes diâ—…ision 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 in this 〈◊〉 aboute which here and in your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…e make so much a do to haue bene rather of misunderstanding the one of the other than any such 〈◊〉 â–ª as ye here â—…o often charge them â—…aunder Niâ—…phorus reâ—…ite this Prince and afterwardes 〈◊〉 â—…o vs also And withall it sheweth that this controuâ—…rsie was not so much tho matter betweene them as was the reâ—…enting vnto the Popes obedience which the Greeke Church could neuer abide and to say the sooth they of all other had chiefe cause â–ª for the Pope was the chiefe ruine 〈◊〉 their Empirâ—… But to returne to my purpose In this Councell the Prince hath this point of supremacâ—…e that he sumâ—…oned and guided it â–ª which M â–ª Stapleton espying dareth not fully affirme â–ª that thiâ—… doing maketh â—…atly againste the Princes supremacie but he cometh fâ—…intly in with what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 And what if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shalt we 〈◊〉 haue larkes â–ª what 〈◊〉 â—…id â–ª phie on Deuill with his shifting if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou be the 〈◊〉 of God. And what if it do not necessarily enduce the chiefe supeâ—… in all causes
his Legates â–ª Forsoothe when he dothe it then it is a principall matter it argueth his supremacie and therefore none can do it but he But nowe when examples are founde and alleaged that Christian Princes had wonte to doe it Ergo They were supreme then belike therein Nay then it argueth no supremacie then it is no principal matter nor any eccl. matter at al. Thus you play mockhalliday with vs and boe péepe as though we were children it is and is not When the Pope dothe it then it argueth a supremacie when the Prince dothe it then it argueth none And why so for sooth then the case is altered Thus do you dally out the matter and when any substantiall proufe is brought agaynst you either ye giue it suche a mocke as this or leape cleane ouer it as though ye sawe it not or in stéede of answere to that that is propounded propounde your selfe an other allegation which is clauâ—…m clauo pellere to driue out one nayle by another For to the allegation out of the Emperours Theodosius and Ualentinianus Epistle ye answere nothing but set a péece of another letter of Ualentinian to Theodosius in the téethe of it VVe sayth Valentinian to the Emperour Theodosius say you ought to defende the fayth which we receyued of our auncestors with all competent deuotion and in this our tyme preserue vnblemished the worthy reuerence due to the blessed Apostle sainct Peter so that the moste blessed Bishop of the Citie of Rome to whome antiquitie hath giuen the principalitie of Priesthoode aboue all other may O moste blessed father and honorable Emperour haue place and libertie to giue iudgement in suche matters as concerne fayth and Priestes And for this cause the bishop of CoÌ„stantinople hathe according to solemne order of Councels by his Libel appealed vnto him And this is writteÌ„ M. Horne to Theodosius him selfe by a coÌ„mon letter of Valentinian And the Empresses Placidia Eudoxia which Placidia writeth also a particular letter to hir said sonne Theodosius and altogither in the same sense Héere ye clap vp a marginall note The Popes supremacie Proued by the Emperour Valentinian alleaged by M. Horne And héere agayne full triumphantly ye crie out HerkeÌ„ good M. Horne giue good aduertisemeÌ„t I walk not and wander as ye do here alleaging this Emperour in an obscure generalitie wherof cannot be enforced any particularitie of the principall question I go to worke with you playnly truely and particularly I shewe you by your owne Emperour by playne words the Popes supremacie the practise withall of appeales froÌ„ Constantinople to Rome Héere is a ioly face of this matter M. St. But yet héere is not one worde to answere the bishops allegation but to coÌ„mend your owne that ye set against it and so thinke ye answere it bicause it is of the same Emperour Ualentinian whom the bishop alleaged But such answere as it is sithe ye can make no other we muste take it or none at your handes Neuerthelesse since ye so crake that ye walke not and wander not in obscure generalities but go playnly and particulerly to worke if ye ment as ye say how chaunce ye open not any of the necessary particuler circumstances of the matter whervpon the Emperour wrote whiche might haue made this matter plaine would haue shewed what and wherin they coÌ„mended the B. of Rome and what authoritie belonged to the Emperour Yea if you had but set downe a little more largely the selfe same Epistles that ye cite the matter had beene a great deale more cleare Ye say also ye go truely to worke and yet you falsly translate euen those very words that ye cyte and so cutte them off ere ye come to the periode that that which shoulde haue shewed the matter to haue béene about a particular controuersie of the fayth then risâ—…n might séeme to be generally spoken of all controuersies And therfore ye leaue out these wordes For the controuersie of the faith that is sprong vp And where the wordes of your allegation are Locum habeat ac facultatâ—…m de fide sacerdotibus iudicare that he may haue place and leaue or facultie to iudge of the fayth and of the Priests you captiously and falsly translate it that he may haue place and libertie to giue iudgement in suche matters as concerne fayth and Priestes This subtile translation in generall ye vse to make it appeare that the Bishop of Rome hath a generall authoritie to be the chiefe Iudge to decide all doubtes in matters of fayth and to be the chiefe Iudge of all Priestes where your texte inferreth no suche thing Likewise where the Emperour sayth of the Bishop of the Citie of Rome to whome antiquitie hath yeelded the principalitie of Priesthoode aboue all others ye conclude that by playne wordes is shewed the Popes supremacie and so sette vp your Marginall note The Popes supremacie proued by the Emperour Valentinian Where in your letter are no suche playne wordes of supremacie nor any proufe thereof at all Do you thinke that the Emperour acknowledged that supremacie which your Pope nowe chalengeth and vsurpeth not onely ouer all Priestes but ouer all Kinges and Emperours also No master Stapleton it is euident by the dealing of these Emperours and that euen in this matter that the Pope â—…ad no suche supremacie but the Emperour dyd those thinges then that your Pope dothe clayme nowe as further shall appeare in the proper treatise therof Your Pope nowe woulde be lothe to be suche an humble Lâ—… and fall downe to the Egles féete as the Pope dyd then to the Emperour whiche nowe ye make the Emperour doe to the Popes féete For why ye may â—…ay â—…empora mutantur nos mutamur in illis the tymes are changed and we are changed in them All the playne wordes and proues ye crake of for this supremacie are these that the Emperour sayth antiquitie gaue hym the principalitie of Priesthoode But there is a greate difference betwéene the principalitie of Priesthoode and supreme head or chiefe gouernour of Priesthoode or that all Priesthoode is deriued out of the Popes Priesthoode as diuers of your wryters affirme that Christe made Peter onely a Priest and all the other Apostles had their Priesthoode from him and so all other from the Bishop of Rome whome they call hys Successoure But as they erre in the office of Priesthoode wherof God willing we shall speake hereafter so whatsoeuer the office of their Priesthood was their saying is manyfest â—…alse For if Peter were a man as he confessed hym selfe to be S. Paule sayth he had not hys authoritie of men but immediatly of God and Peter gaue him nothing neither yet Iames nor Iohn And here if I might spurre you a question bicause master Heskins setteth oute his Parliament so solemnelie before his boke in pictures for the nonce making s. Iames the first that sayde Masse wherin he followeth the coÌ„mon opinion
He toucheth two reasons The one in that he saith to my Lorde The other To the Lordes anoynted But bicause that was the chiefest reason for that Saule was anoynted of the most highe God that onely he nameth twyse Whereby we sée he accempted Saule still as his lawfull king and himselfe to be his dutifull and obedient subiect And so he acknowledged him selfe to Saule when he cried after him saying O my Lord the king â–ª and when Saule looked behind him Dauid enelined his face to the earth and bowed himselfe And Dauid sayd to Saul wherefore giuest thou eare to mennes words that say beholde Dauid seeketh euill against thee Beholde this day thine eyes haue seene that the Lorde hath deliuered thee this day into my hand in the caue and some badde me kill thee But I had compassion on thee and sayd I will not lay my hande on my Maister For he is the Lordes anoynted Moreouer my father behold I say the lappe of thy garment in my hande For when I cut off the lappe of thy garment I killed thee not Vnderstande and see that there is no euill nor wickednesse in me neither haue I sinned against thee According to the Hebrue saith Caietane neither is rebellion in me c. He excludeth all sinne by repeating his worke backwarde For last of all he excludeth sinne against Saul and before rebellion against the King and first of all euill vniuersally And vpon these words The Lord be iudge betwen thee and me And the Lord auenge me of thee and let not my hand be on thee This he said saith Lyra in the zeale of Iustice and not of reuengement For no body ought to take vengeance on his own iniurie by himself except it lye vpon him by his office and euen then it were better that he did it by another All these words saith Caietane are not of him that wisheth but foretelleth and expecteth For they are in the Hebrue texte of the future tence and the indicatiue mode He shall iudge and he shall auenge So farre is Dauid from wishing any euil vnto the king And he so humbleth himselfe vnto him that he calleth himselfe in comparisoÌ„ of the King a dead dogge and a flie Sith I am saith Lyra of no moment or nothing worth in regarde of thee Thus farre was Dauid froÌ„ euer attempting to depose King Saul after Samuel had anoynted him And that not onely where Ionathas but euen where Saul himselfe acknowledged that Dauid shoulde be Kâ—…ng after him saying and nowe I know of a certaintie that thou shalt raigne and the kingdome of Israel shall be established in thy hand But yet he saith not that he then presently raigned neither doth he resigne vnto him but make a couenant and take an othe of Dauid that when he should raigne he shoulde not destroy his séede after him nor take away his name from his fathers house this Dauid swore vnto him Wherin he acknowledgeth though a state to come yet no state in present The like occasion falling out againe 1. Reg. 26. Dauid behaued himselfe to Saul in semblable wise For when he might haue killed him and Abisai would haue killed him â—…he not onely woulde not doe it nor suffer it to be done But he sayth to Abisai destroye him not For who can laye his handes on the Lords anoynted and be giltlesse Dauid sayth Lyra wold gyue this to the person of him so long as he was suffered of God in the Kingdome Alwayes sayth Caietane Dauid had fixed in his harte and in his mouth the honour of the moste high God in so muche that he thoughte none innocent that stretched hys hande vpon the anoynted of god As the Lorde lyueth saith he either the Lord shall smite him or his day shall come to dye or he shall descende into battell and perishe The Lorde keepe me from laying my hand vpon the Lords anoynted By this saith Lira Dauid entended that by no meanes he would be the efficient cause of his death excepte perhaps in defending himselfe so that he could not otherwise escape And when Dauid called to Abner he challenged him to be worthy of death for keping the Kings person no better and when Saul knowing his voice said is this thy voyce my sonne Dauid and Dauid sayd it is my voyce my Lorde O king And he sayde wherefore doth my Lord thus persecute his seruant for what haue I done or what euil is in my hand Now therefore I beseeche thee let my Lorde the King heare the wordes of his seruaunt c. thus humbleth he himselfe in his purgation and sayth the King of Israell is come out to seeke a flie as one woulde hunte a Partridge in the mountaynes So lowly abasing himselfe in comparison of Saul whome he calleth the King of Israel Neyther dissembled he but spake Bona fide euen as he thought in his hart So farre was Dauid from not acknowledging Saul to be still hys soueraigne Lorde and lawfull King so farre from gathering anye vnlawfull assemblyes againste him so farre from any priuie conspiracie or open rebellion so farre from so much as thinking to depose him that when he had him in his daunger he woulde not onely not hurt him nor suffer other to doeit but gaue him so great honour as any subiecte can giue his Prince How then is not the storie of Saule and Dauid wrested for a Christian subiect that hath no such authoritie as Dauid had to depose or take armes against his Christian Prince or to go from the obedience of him as no longer lawfull Kyng after the Byshop shall saye he hathe deposed him and to obey any other that the Bishop shal appoint for King The third thing that Master Saunders inferreth is this that althoughe the Pope and his Bishops may doe thus to Princes yet Princes were very tyrants if they should doe oughte to them And hereto he alleageth that when the high Priest Achimelech asked counsell of the Lord for Dauid Saul hauing intelligence thereof commaunded his seruants to fall vpon the Priests of the Lord no man durst execute so cruell a commaundement besides onely Doeg the Idumean For Achimelechs asking counsell of the Lord for Dauid Whâ—… Dauid fled vnto him first the case Maister Saunders is not so cléere but that as Lyra confesseth a question is made theron for there appéereth no such thing in the. 21. Chapter Althoughe Doeg so accused him and Achimelech standeth not to the deniall thereof but vpon his innocencie Lyra sayth Dicunt aliqui c. Some saye that he lyed as tale bearers are wont to saye more than is in deede but the contrary seemeth rather to bee true So that this is not so cleare a case as you make it But what is all thys storye to the purpose or not rather againste you especially that that followeth of Saules puttyng the Priestes to death Wherein although he dyd a wycked and tyrannous acte yet it argueth
But sith none hath aduentured on it I thought it my dutie to yeelde to the godlie and vrgent requestes of those personages that vnderstanding I had priuately delte therin required the publishing of my labours to the vvhich I condescended a great deale the vvillinger partly bicause it touched vvithall the defence of that Reuerende fathers innocencie and learning the Bishop of VVinchester vvho had although briefly yet most orderly and exactly handled this questioÌ„ before and vvas oppugned by this aduersarie neither vvas it for diuers causes thought so coÌ„uenient for the Bishop himselfe to ansvvere and I for my part was bounde in so iust a cause to defend him But chiefly for that it spared not most opprobriously to slaunder your most excelleÌ„t Maiestie your title your state your gouernment your most honorable and godlie CouÌ„saile your nobilitie your Bishops your clergie your magistrats your iustices your people and all estates of your dominions your doctrine your faith your religion yea the truth and glorie of God vvhich your Highnesse defendes to all vvhich I and all other are bounde in principall I thought not good therefore to stay it any longer and suffer these vncircumcised Philistines blaspheming the truth of God reproching the Lords anoynted and rayling on the hoste of Israel to stand thus and vaunt vnansvvered but lette this ansvvere that I had thus farforth made in priuate â–ª come abrode to others Promising god vvilling by your Maiesties fauourable protection to deale further vvith them and to shevvethe continuall practise hereof hovve in all ages since Christendome began to flourishe vnder the Great Constantine that christian Emperors Kings and Princes haue dealte as doth your Maiestie in the ouersight of Ecclesiastical matters till the Pope by little and little encroching on them not onely spoyled them of this their chief authoritie but of their temporal estates and vvorldly kingdoms yea of their goodes liues also In the meane season for this that is here alreadie ansvvered vnto I most humbly craue your Highnesse acceptation vvhose right is here defended by truth from sclanders that by iustice defendeth our right from iniuries Most hartily beseeching almightie God as he hitherto hath vouchsafed so to blesse preserue continue and prosper your Royal Maiestie to the loÌ„g establishing of your Highnes Throne to the vtter vanquishing of all your spirituall and bodily priuie and open enimies to the godlie comforte and quiet gouernment of all your faithful subiects and to the prosperous aduancement of Gods euerlasting glorie thorough Iesus Christe AMEN Youre Maiesties humble and obedient subiect IOHN BRIDGES The Preface to the Reader IT is nowe a good while since deare Christian Reader that this maister Stapletons Counterblast was blowne ouer the seas from Louaine against the Reuerende father in Christe the Bishop of Winchester or rather against the Quenes Maiestie and hir Supremacie was thus farre answered vnto as here is nowe set foorth Which may easily be perceiued by the reading for there is little or nothing altered except a sentence or two here there added as things haue falne out since I speake this that thou shouldest not here loke for any great or exquisite penning thinking that after so loÌ„g a leysure some more notable and exacter answere should come forth Our aduersaries vaunt much of their wittes herein and chieâ—…y this my matefellow master Stapleton to be verie fresh pregnant in readinesse of answering for he is his mothers sonne and hath it on his fingers ends Howbeit I may say to these as Apelles sayd to one who when he had drawne a picture Lo quoth he I did this apace Some thinkes quoth Apelles it is so ruÌ„ningly done And thus it falleth often out with our Loâ—…anists writings but Sat cito si sat bene It is soone ynough if it be well inough say I when all is done The reasâ—… why this answere came forth no soner are these First I kept it priuate to my self abyding if either the Bishop against whome it was made or any other woulde aunswere to it Secondly I heard at the length that Maister Nowell the Deane of Poules trauayled in it whose learning and wisedome being suche as all the aduersaries could neuer withstand I surceased to proceede any further Thirdly when I perceiued he set not out his answere neither I thought it best to lay myne asyde also Thinking that either he was stayed vpoÌ„ som weightier consideration than I did know or else that he did thinke the boke not worth the answering at al as in very deed to the lerned marker it is not M. Nowel had answered Dorman in muche like matter before which were the occasioÌ„s why it slept so loÌ„g But since that time as many haue mused and talked much on the matter so they haue not a little marueiled why nothing was said vnto it The argument was great and waightie not so muche whether nowe the Supremacie belonged to the Pope as whether it pertained to the ciuil Magistrate and whether the Queenes Maiestie did claime and hold it by right or no The parties in controuersie were of note as wel master Feckenham among the Papistes as the Bishop of Winchester whose estimation among vs is not more for his authoritie than his name amoÌ„g other nations for his learning Nowe when Master Stapleton stept in lyke a lustie yoncker and blewe vp this Counterblast betwene these twain so hotly hallowing for answer out of hande to be made by the Bishop therto al this while had none some did interprete it that he was a very vnfit matche for so graue a Bishop as to say the truth the match was nothing euen And therefore I wite not the Bishop if he vouchsafed not to answer him especially seing home his booke was so pestred with scoldes and scorners Rhetorike Neither will the horse of noble corage strike at euery brauling curre that barks at his heeles But when others missecoÌ„strued this to the worst said the Counterblast was so notably blown that the Bishop durst not nor was able he nor any other to answer it wheÌ„ vpon the head of all this M. Saunders Latine volume coÌ„mes forth although chiefly on the Popes visible Monarchie yet once again entring into this questioÌ„ of the Princes Supremacie with fresh matter as he bosteth with such inuincible arguments against it that all are but vnlearned starke fooles and cleane madde that do defend it and not thus content so depresseth the Princes estate that he will now proue the Pope hath interest to depose al Christian Princes and release their sâ—…biects of their sworn obedience which valiant champion vauÌ„teth also of his felow Stapletons noble peece of woorke againste the Princes Supreme Gouernment saying in his prayse Quod argumentum â–ª Thomas Stapletonus omnium copiosissimè tractaâ—…it in â—…o Libro quenâ—… 〈◊〉 eloquentia doctrina refertum contra Hornum Psâ—…udoepiscopum Wintoniensâ—… edidiâ—… vvhiche argument Thomas Stapleton hathe moste copiously handeled in that booke vvhiche beeing replenished
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
Peter therefore an hereâ—…ike nor saint Paule woulde haue B. to be hereâ—…ikes But herein your owne Canons answere and confute you And yet here to proue vs heretikes for defence of mariage he saith he will referre vs to the olde Canons of the fathers What fathers meane you the Apostles Master Stapleton that sayd mariage was honourable among all men Meane ye the Canons that beare those fathers titles and say Episcopuâ—… aut Presbiter vxorem propriam nequaquam sub obtentu religionis abijciat si vero reiecerit excommunicetur sed si perseuerauerit deijciatur Let not a Bishop or a Priest putte awaye his owne wyfe vnder the pretence of Religion and if he put hir away let him be excomunicate and if hee continue in his fault let him be put out of his office If you meane these fathers your selues heare their verdict agaynst you Dr meane ye the fathers of Nicene councell that agréed to the reuerent father Paphnutius but for some of the fathers ye name whom ye meane specially S. Augustine and Epiphanius whom ye call poore Catholikes in déede master Stapleton they are very poore helpes that ye can wring from them to maintaine Poperie withall but thinking we will reiect them M. St. will wrap vs euen in our owne confessions Your owne famous Apologiâ—… sayth he sayth that Epiphanius numbreth 80. heresies of the which it is one for a man after the order of Priesthood to mary But I trust you wil not be agaynst your owne Apologie Ergo ye are heretikes by your owne confession that marie after Priesthood The coÌ„sequence of this argumeÌ„t goeth hard M. St. to reason from the Apollogies reciting of Epiphanius to the Apollogies allowing of all thinges that either he hath or they recite out of him But letting go your logike I aunswere to the maior The Apologie sayth truely that Epiphanius numbreth 80. heresies and the Apologie vsâ—…th this tearme Heresies in the same sense that Epiphanius did as appeareth plainly by the example of heresies that are therein rehearsed Epiphanius entituling his booke contra 80 hereses meaneth not 80. perticular and seuerall false opinions for so he should haue doubâ—…ed at the least that number but he meaneth by 80. heresies so many head or chief â—…ectaries or sects whereof euery one maintayneth many seuerall perticular opinions hereticall this is the plaine meaning of Epiphanius as appeareth most manifestly through out his booke which argueth that M. St. séeking this poore shift full lyke a poore Catholike and poore clearke also neuer read Epiphanius himselfe but hearing tell that Epiphanius wrote agaynst 80 heresies 〈◊〉 at 80 â–ª perticular opinions hereticall Of the which heresies taken after Epiphanius his vsage sect or sectarie either for a perticular opinion hereticall he reckeneth this for none that I can finde for a man after the order of priesthood to marie If he had reckened this for any be sure M. Stap. would hane reckened vp hys wordes and quoted the place Master Staâ—…leton now imagining with himselfe that he hath quite foyled vs and that we must runne from the fathers yea and eaâ—…e our owne wordes cryeth out what then haue you to iustifie your cause But againe to help vs in this distresse he conceyueth that there is yet one poore and sâ—…elye helpe behinde and that is to flie vnder the defence as he contumeliouslye tearmeth it of our brickle Bulvvarke of actes of Parliament And here for raging after many impertinent things he coÌ„cludeth thus Such and such articles are commaunded to be set forth by the authoritie of Parliament Ergo our fayth hangeth onely on the authoritie of Parliament Item such and such articles of religion are not namely expressed in the actes of Parliament Ergo they are heretical and vnlawfull The follie of these arguments néede none other answere but to shew them But all this while where were your eyes fixed that they once looked not to the question in controuersie doe ye obserue your owne rule so well M. Stapleton howbeit sith ye doe it of bluntnesse agaynst these wordes of M. Feckenhams title the Lord Bishop of VVinchester Ye must be borne withall The seconde Diuision Fol. 1. b THe B. to proue this chalenge of M. Feckenhams title to conteyne manifest guile and falshoode sheweth the whole processe fyrst of Master Feckenhams treatise composed in the Tower and directed to the Queenes highnesse Commissioners and afterwardes howe he scrapeth out those phrases and pretendeth as thoughe the treatise had beene composed at Waltham and directed to the Bishop Secondly for his pretence of scruples as deliuered to the B. by writing to be resolued in them and of the B. resolutions there vnto the B. sheweth the whole dealing of the coÌ„fereÌ„ce betwene theÌ„ First that by mouthe not by wryting they reasoned on these poynts and that M. Feckenham seemed resolued in them and vpon what occasion afterwarde he fell to wrangling agayne from them what a doe the Byshop had to haue master Feckenham write some positions or assertions in for me of propositions to the ende they mighte certenly goe forwarde whiche the Byshop coulde not bring him vnto tyll at the lengthe at his owne requeste the Byshop putte in wryting the woordes of the othe with the sense or interpretation added therevnto that master Feckenham considering therevppon mighte deuise the fourme of his propositions wherevppon they mighte afterwarde debate Whereby appeareth bothe howe vntrue it is that he had deliuered vnto the Byshoppe any suche scruples of his in wryting for then the Byshop needed not haue soughte any propositions of hys assertions and also howâ—… vntrue that is that the interpretation of the othe whiche the Byshop wrote at his requeste before he euer sawe any writing of master Feckenham was to answere hys scruples and stayes deliuered to the Bishop in writing To these the Byshoppes chalenges of master Feckenhams false tytle master Stâ—…pletons answere is thréefolde First sayth he here is no matter effectuall but that maye seeme already by our former ansvvere sufficiently discharged Howe this matter is before of you discharged is yet freshe in the Readers memorie I thinke he will not giue ye your quietus est so lightly except ye bring better proues and agrée better to your owne tale For here where ye say ye haue ansvvered suffyciently before to all that is effectuall this argueth that he was charged with somewhat that was effectuall else haue ye answered to no effectual thing And yet your answere before was that the matter wherwith the B. charged M. F. for his false title was but a bie matter which whether it were true or false doth nothing preiudicate or touch the principal question and so the whole charge is a matter nothing effectuall But let go this to your contradictions and let the reader iudge howe sufficiently ye haue discharged M. Feck or not rather charged him with as muche or more than the B. did The secoÌ„d part of M. St. answere is a gathering
surmile vppon my silence any suche distrust ▪ I will compendiously as the matter shall require abbridge their aunsweres and that master Horne shall thinke that our stuffe is not all spent ▪ I shall on the other syde for a surplussage adioyne some other things to our opponent accomodate An Almonde for Parate so finely our student begins to speake that a good plaine simple man can scarce vnderstande his 〈◊〉 termes But this is the effect of it we shall now haue new stuffe of some olde store good stuffe and God will for all their stuffe as he crakes is not yet spent but I perceyue it goeth harde with them in their store house and that this stuffe is some of the last cast God sende it be not such stale stuffe when it comes to the view as Cardinall Campeius moiles did bring into Englande and vttered in Cheape side But such as it is we must take it in good worth it is the best he hath to answere the Bishops ensample withall The first ensample is of Moses in whome the Byshop noteth thrée things First that he was the supreme gouernour of Gods people Secondly that hée ordred and set forth Gods true Religion wyth great regarde and care prescribing aswell to Aaron and the Leuites as to the people Thirdly that he was not the chiefe priest therfore could not do them in suche respect but as he was supreme gouernour The first and the seconde propositions that Moses was the supreme gouernour and that he did order and direct all things M. St. graunteth The thirde parte he denieth and affirmeth that Moses was the chiefe priest and in that respecte dyd all these foresayde thinges This assertion he sayth he will proue bothe by his masters olde and by his owne surplusage of newe stuffe also His argument of both these stuffes is this I say with M. D. Harding and S. Augustine that Moses was a Priest aswell as a Prince I say the same with M. Dorman ▪ with Philo Iudeus with S. Hierome and with S. Hieroms master Gregorie Nazianzene Ergo Moses was the chiefe Priest. By the like reason if M. St. be a priest he might proue him selfe to be the Pope of Rome He is a Romish priest Ergo he is the chiefe Romish priest which is the pope The one reason is as good as the other But here he will cry out and say I do him wrong to change his conclusion for he inferreth no such words but these And so consequently Moses ensample serueth not your turne but quite ouerturneth your assertion True it is in déed this is your cōclusion M. St. but what was the bishops assertion which this ye say quite ouerturnes was not this his assertion that Moses was not the chiefe priest and did not you denie this assertion affirme it to be an vntruth saying for Moses was the chiefe priest as shal be proued did ye not héere make promise to proue it did ye not say that to answere this example ye had other freshe stuffe not yet spent must not then this stuffe be directed to this ende conclusion to fulfill your promise ouerturne the bishops assertion which was that Moses was not the chiefe priest but Aaron and you should proue as ye haue freshly promised that Moses was the chiefe priest And therfore if this be not your conclusion ye subtilly falsly swerue frō the cōclusion that ye ought to haue cōcluded ye performe not your promise to proue Moses the chiefe priest nor your conclusion as ye crake ouerturnes the byshops assertion which was that Moyses was not the chief priest but Aaron And therfore either this is your argument Moses was a Priest Ergo he was chiefe Priest or else ye conclude not agaynst the bishops assertion If ye say ye conclude this al the world séeth what a fonde conclusion it is And if ye haue a poleshorne priests crowne of your owne as I doubt not but ye haue a faire one ye may aswell conclude to your self the Popes triple crowne And if ye cōclude it not ye conclude not agaynst the bishop nor fulfill your promise for all your proues stande on this profe that Moses was a priest Nowe the question was not whether Moses was a priest or no which is another question in controuersie But the question is whether he or Aaron were the chiefe priest Yet will ye peraduenture say though I haue herein as ye haue proued swarued from the directe conclusion in hande that Moses was not the chiefe priest nor kepte my promise yea and made a scape in saying that I ouerturned the bishops assertion when I did not or if I went about it yet mine argument proued but a fonde reason from priest to chiefe priest yet in the ende I haue proued Moses a priest and so consequently it serueth not your turne vnlesse ye will king Henry the eight and his sonne king Edwarde yea our gratious Queene to be a priest to but rather quite ouerturneth your assertion and think you M. Horne that the Queenes authoritie doth iumpe agree with the authoritie of Moses in causes ecclesiasticall then may she preache to the people as Moses did then may she offer sacrifices as Moses did then may she consecrate priests as Moses did consecrate Aaron and others then may it be sayde of the imposition of handes as was sayde of Moyses Iosua the sonne of Nun was full of the spirite of wisdome for Moses had put his hande vpon him It must needes therefore followe that Moses was a priest and that a high priest whiche ye heere full peeuishly denie Where ye aske M. Stap. of the Byshop And thinke ye M. Horne that the Queenes authoritie do the iumpe agree with th' authoritie of Moses might not the byshop demaund agayne the like of you and thinke you ▪ M. Stap. that euen your Popes authoritie admitting it were not the vsurped tyrannie which it is dothe iumpe agree with the authoritie of Moyses yea admitting also that question that he was a Priest and so consequently agayne it serueth not your turne nor master D. Hardings nor master Dormans neither I am sure as ye confesse he was a priest so ye will admit a difference betwéene your Pope and him and euen so since ye reason thus precisely of differences in the persons ye ought also to haue made a difference betwéene Moyses his diuerse offices and to haue giuen either office his proper actions and so to haue applied them and not to haue confounded them admitting that he one person were both a Prince and a Priest also which hangs in controuersie for all your cited authors But you reason confusedly à secundum quid ad simpliciter Moyses by an especiall priuiledge was a Prieste as well as a Prince and thereby did preache offer sacrifice consecrate Aaron lay imposition of handes and did other offices of Priests and many extraordinary things besides Ergo Moses in that he was a Prince not a Priest in
ye can not denie it Would God yet ye could blushe and be at the least ashamed of it But why wishe I shame in so shamelesse maiden Priestes if ye can be maydens that neither haue maidenhed nor shamefastnesse in you are ye not those Locustes that S. Iohn saith should come out of the bottomlesse pitte hauing on their heads as it were crownes like vnto golde and their faces were as it had bene the faces of men and they had heare as the heares of women that is to say a shew and countenance of maydenly virginitie hauing notwithstanding tayles like Scorpions Surely Eneas Siluius your Pope called Pius 2. did not for nought so commonly vse this sentence that where the Fathers not without great consideration at the first forbad Priests to marry and to keepe them selues single they should now not without a greater cause suffer them to marrie In the which wordes he not onely noteth the popish Priestes abominations but also that this forbidding of marriage is not of any commaundement of Christ but merely of mens prohibition but such prohibition as were much better reuoked euen by the best learned Popes opinion as the writers of his life do note that euer satte in that sâ—…ate Of the same iudgement was Erasmus who seing the abhominable life of the popish Priests abosing the simple vnder the nâ—…e of virginitie â–ª Muâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª c. Many causes faith he â—…o persuade a change of the lawe of single life in ecclesiasticall persons And when your Sorbonistes of Paris stamped hereat and wrote against him boasting as you de of the excellencie of virginitie shining in holines Erasmus answered them Qui tractâ—…nt c. They that lay those that medle with the diuine mysteries and the administration of the heauenly worde chastitie doth most become them they say true and godly and I allow their iudgement very well but they do consider what the thing it selfe requireth I consider â–ª what the imbeâ—…ilitie of men requireth Many discommodities I graunt might follow if wiues were permitted vnto Priestes but such discommodities as either the Church or the carefulnesse of Princes might easilie with certaine constitutions remedie But now in so corrupt manners of men their most silthie single life hath farre more greuous discommodities Would to God so many as are priests would turne their minde to cleannesse Thus saide Erasmus of your birginly Priesthood not onely with whâ—… but euen with S. Paule we say it is better marry than to liâ—…e in such wicked burnings and viciouse liuing Yea although the partie had neuer so much vowed virginitie before yet if he could not keepe his vowe but burne in lust it were farre better for him to marry and his mariage as S. Angustine saith is perfect matrimonie And not whoredome as you your Papistes slaunderously do terine it â–ª But no meruaile if ye slauÌ„der our Matrimonie that not onely liue your selues in such wicked demeanour he such stalions as the Prophete cried out of that neighed after their neighbours wines rather than with the honest care of Matrimonie ye would haue any of your own since as ye defiled others â—…eddes so ye accoumpt and write of all matrimonie as a polluted state For so saith Durandus and so ye say all Matrimonium tollis puritatem maculat corpus Matrimony taketh away cleannesse and deâ—…ileth the bodie Whereas the Scripture calleth it Cubile impollutum An vndefiled bedde and an honorable estate And yet for simple fornication it is a common question moued among you whether it be a mortall sinne or no. So fauourable ye are to wickednesse and so harde to Matrimonie To liue in Matrimonie is with Papistes to liue after the â—…eash Which what is it els with S. Paule but to liue in sinne to offende God to deserue death Sâ—… secundam carnem vixeritâ—… moriemini If ye liue after the flesh ye shall die Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non pofsunt They that are in the flesh can not please God. And therefore they reason that Priests may not liue in Matrimonie But to sorsweare Matrimonie to liue a single life how soeuer he liue it Si non caste 〈◊〉 cauâ—…e If not chastely yet closely This with Papistes is virginitie this is an excellent life this at Gods handes deserues a speciall rewarde This hypocrisie of fained virginitie this defacing and destling of honorable matrimonie bicause we crie out vpon we are 〈◊〉 Bicause we reprehends your forced single life that compelleth Priestes not to marrie whether they will or no oâ—… whether they haue or no the gifte of virginitie which is not of them selues but a gift and that of God and that a rare gifte as Christ saith and as experience hath proued a most rare gifte among your votaries we are therefore Iouinians Bicause we preferre marriage before such vncleane virginitie as the honorable necessarie and vndefiled meanes to auoide fornication Bicause we say virginitie I meane not Popish virginitie but true virginitie is in it selfe no such vertue as you make it of especiall rewarde but in respect of auoiding some hinderances as also Matrimonie in respects of auoyding greater cuils therefore we are Iouinians and make them both alike But what say we herein that euen your Schoolemen say not â–ª Durandus aforesatde vppon this selfe same question whether virginitie be to be preferred before matrimonie Aliquod est 〈◊〉 c. Something is good in it selfe something accidentally or inrespect of another thing that is bicause it remoueth an euill or inconuenient thing After the firste sorte meate is good to the bodie After the seconde forâ—…e medicine is good VVee must say therefore that virginitie is not good after the first sorte but after the seconde which appeareth three wayes First thus to abstaine from that that is conuenient in it selfe and good can not of it selfe be good But by virginitie we abstaine from Matrimonie which of it selfe is good therefore virginitie of it selfe is not good Iâ—… which woordes omitting his contradiction to his owne tale he maketh in it selfe Matrimonie to be better than Uirginitie But what stande I on Durandus when all your Priestes incurring therein worse contradiction make Matrimonie a Sacrament but Uirginitie they make none If therefore we be louinians be not you louinians to yâ—… rather per syncopen be ye not louinians as good virgin maydens as euer Iupiter was But to supplie that wantes in you ye presse vs with S. Hieroms authoritie To whome though â—… might fully answere ye with the learned censureâ—… of Eramus on that S. Hieromes 〈◊〉 against 〈◊〉 yet for your furder satisfiyng your deâ—…â—… will referre ye to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excellent learned father and euen fellow student with S. Hierome one also that had written against 〈◊〉 Whereby ye may sée how farre S. Hierome ouershotte him selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hâ—… 〈◊〉 saith Ruffinus to Hisrom speaking of Iouinian did first
no quoth he that will I neuer doe I had rather alway begge my breade And so the matter was dasht The yong man retourning came by a chapell where was the picture of the blessed Virgin holding hir childe in hir armes and he began to inuocate hir with all his heart and by the merites of hir repented earnestly calling instantly vpon the Virgin Marie for he durst not call vppon the highest whom he had denied VVith that he hearde the mother speake to hir sonne in hir armes saying my most sweete Sonne be mercifull to this man To whom hir Sonne would not speake one worde but writhed his face from hir And when againe she besought hir Sonne for him he turned his backe to his mother and said he hath renied me what shall I doe to him when she saw this she set downe the childe on the altare and fell at his feet saying I beseech thee sonne that for me thou wilt forgiue him and streight the infant lift vp his mother and sayde O mother I coulde neuer denie thee any thing beholde for thy sake I forgiue him all Thus ye made the mother farre more mercyfull and louing than Christe and that forgiuenesse of sinnes is in hir name and for hir sake And made the people by these tales beléeue that it was a more heynous offence to denye the blessed Uirgin than it was to renounce oure Sauioure Christe The same authour telleth yet a more fonde and wicked tale How S. Dominike on a night saw Christe standing in the ayre shaking in his hand three speares against the world and his mother ranne hastily againste him and demaunded him what he would doe and he sayd to hir All the worlde is full of vices of pride of luxurie and of auarice and therfore I will destroye them with these three speares then the blessed virgin fell downe at his feete ▪ and sayd Deare sonne haue pitie and tarrie thy iustice by thy mercie And Iesus Christ sayd to hir Seest thou not howe many vvrongs and iniuries they haue done to mee And she answered Son attemper thy wrathe and tarie a little I haue a true seruaunt and a noble fighter against the vices he shal runne ouer all and vanquishe the worlde and subdue them vnder thy seignorie and I shall giue him an other seruaunt into his helpe that shall fighte as hee dothe And oure Lorde her sonne sayde I am appeased and receyue thy prayer But I woulde see vvhome thou wilte sende in so greate offence And so the tale telleth howe she fette and presented vnto him Saincte Dominicke and S. Frauncis and howe Christe praysed them And thus once the worlde was saued by hir and hir two champions On the other syde of the leafe as a confirmation to this is declared howe an other tyme a deuout Ladies chaplein called sir William dyd see Christe sitte in his throne and on his right hand an angell standing with a trumpet whom Christe with a cleere voyce in the hearyng of all the armie of heauen bad blowe And when he had blovven the blast was so mightie that all the worlde shooke as it had bene a leafe on a tree to whome Christe sayde the seconde tyme Blovve and he blevve as before But the Virgin Mary mother of mercie knovvyng that yf he blevve agayne all the vvorlde vvere ended the other Sainctes being all husht shee starte vp and fell at hir Sonnes feete and besoughte him vvith muche adoe to deferre his sentence and spare the worlde To vvhome Christe aunsvvered Mother all the vvorlde is sette on wickednesse and doe so prouoke me vvith their sinnes that neither I ought to suspende my sentence nor spare man Sith not only the laitie but the clergie also yea the Monkes haue vtterly corrupted theyr vvayes and offende me from day to daye And then sayde his mother My deare son spare them though not for those wicked ones yet at the least for my frends sakes and so Christ vvas pleased once againe An other tyme the matter wente so harde that the Uirgin Maries image fell a sweating so fast in the Church that all the people maruelled And the cause was this The sonne of Marie had euen stretched oute his arme to strike the vvorld and if his mother had not run the quicklier and stayed his arme the vvorlde had bene destroyed ere novve This is the intercession that youre Church ascribeth to hir M. Stapleton makyng hir a greate deale more prone to mercie than Christ the fountain of mercie and mercie it selfe by these youre wicked and blasphemous fables But what said I ▪ I should haue said by these your holy histories and deuoute sermons But sée withall what true doctrine ye teache that the sainctes do pray for the deferring of the kingdome of God where Christe teacheth vs to pray that he would vouchsafe to hasten his kingdom saying Let thy kingdome come And willeth the godlie to lift vp their heads when they shall heare of the signes thereof and sayth that vnlesse God should shorten those dayes no fleshe should be saued and he will cut them off for the electes sake And the Martirs slaine for the worde of God doe long still for his cōming and crie How long O Lord which art holie and true wilt thou not iudge the worlde and reuenge oure bloud of those that dwell in the earth And there were giuen to them white garmentes and they were bidde rest a whyle till the number of theyr felow seruants and brethren were fulfilled that should be slayne likewise And the spirite and the spouse sayth come and he that heareth let him say Come c. And Christe sayeth Yea I come quickly Amen Yea Lorde Iesu come quickly sayth S. Iohn And your Church saith As an harlot that is afrayde of the husbands comming come not And ye tell vs that the blessed Uirgin hath nowe thrée tymes stayed backe his arme and wil not lette him come You haue hitherto ascribed verie muche and much more than ought to be ascribed to a creature but do ye go no further ye pretende that the death of Christ is auaylable but no further than the blessed virgin doth obtain it at his hād by hir mercie What a tale is that ye tel vs euen where as ye mention the bloud of Christe howe a certains noughtie religious man vsing notwithstāding to say an hundreth Aue Maries euery day the deuils brought him béeing dead in his sinnes before Christ to be iudged Christ pronounced him to be eternally condemned With that came the blessed virgin and offred the papers wherein the Aue Maries wer written desiring Christ to go to iudgemēt once again The deuils seeing that brought all the bookes of his sinnes and when the balance was peysed his sinnes did ouerwey the Auies which séeing the virgin besought Christ saying Thou art my sonne the bloud that thou hast thou hast of me I pray thee giue me one droppe thereof
his free mercie not of our freewill workes So that what we haue now either in will or worke to do any thing acceptable to his most blessed will and pleasure the same in déede is in vs bicause his spirite is in vs but not of vs but of him bringing forth in vs Uelle perficere Both to will and to worke as fruites of his holy spirite within vs And if this agrée with the pestiferous Fables and lies of Simon Magus Marcion and Manes then ye haue mounted faire and well If not had ye mounted farre higher than they write Simon Magus did yea than euer Lucifer did yet as Simon Magus fell downe and brake his necke as Lucifer was throwen downe to hell fire so must you M. Stapleton with shame come downe againe for feare ye be hurled downe with them Now if as ye rashly mounted vp ye will orderly come downe through out all ages as it were by steppes ye may descende by this doctrine euen to your owne time againe But I pray you M. Stapleton in your comming downe let Pelagius be your host What maÌ„ drinke with him at least one free draught of his erroneous doctrine He is a free companion and will let ye drinke at will freely and he hath pleasannt licour well swéetned with pure naturall drugges and brewed with strong spices of your owne habilitie perfection and merites delectable to the palace of mans selfeloue But swéete soppes must haue sowre sawce they say â–ª This pleasaunt errour is but a sugred poyson and as ill on the other parte as Sâ—…noÌ„ Magus fatall necessitie was if not a great deale worse But ye will come neere vs and touche ye say the very foundation and well spring of this your newe Gospell which altogither is grounded vpon Iustification without good workes In that also ye drawe very nighe to the sayde Simon Magus Do we drawe nighe him M. St God sende grace you draw not with him and that many of your works yea euen of your good works and suche as ye ascribe iustification vnto be not suche as Simon Magus and his disciples workes were We grounde not vpon iustification without good workes you grounde vpon lyes without good consciences that thus do slaunder vs Iustification in déede may well be without your good workes yea it can not be with them The good workes that God commaundeth iustification bringeth foorth and therfore it can not be without them bicause they be the necessarie fruites of Iustification we seuer not them therfore from Iustification but discerne them from the Acte of God in iustifying Not to make our selues our owne iustifiers in whole or in parte We discerne theÌ„ from the causes of our iustification and ascribe the causes to the loue fauor and mercies of God the father for Christ his sonnes sake by the sanctification of his holy spirite We discerne our workes from the merite and deserte of iustification muche more from the merite of our saluation and say it is onely wrought by his merites and giuen to vs gratis freely All haue sinned sayth S. Paule and wante the glory of God but they are iustified freely by his grace through the redemption which is in Iesu Christ whom God hath appoynted to be the reconciliatioÌ„ through fayth by his bloud comming betweene Which worde freely is contrary to merite and excludeth it as S. Paule reasoneth Sâ—… ex gratia iam non ex operibus alioquin gratia non est gratia If it come of grace then commeth it not of workes otherwyse grace is not grace That is to say it is not frée fauour but bound fauour as deserued or bought As Barnard said NoÌ„ est quo gratia intreâ—… vbi iam merituÌ„ occupauit VVhere merite hath taken vp the rowme there is no place for grace to enter And so S. Aug Haec est electio gratia c. This is the electioÌ„ of grace bicause all good merites of man are preuented For if it were giuen by any good merites then were it not giuen free but rendred as ought And by this meanes it is not by a true name called grace where reward is As the same Apostle sayth it is not imputed according to grace but according to duetie but if that it be true grace that is to saye freely giuen it findeth nought in man to whom it may be worthily owing Infinite are the places that may be cited out of the fathers and many are by others at large collected in this behalfe yea I haue shewed you Thomas his iudgement alredy therin who is the prince of al your scholemeÌ„ For merite of works therfore in iustification we are of S. Paules minde Arbitramur hominem iustificari fide absque operibus legis we suppose that man is iustified by fayth without the works of the law Thus in the poynt of iustification workes are excluded as he sayde immediately before VVhere is then thy boasting it is excluded By what lawe of workes no but by the lawe of fayth Althoughe our workes are not at all excluded in respect of the fruites of those that are already iustified For they are ipsius factura c. His workemanshippe created in Iesu Christ in good workes which God hath prepared that we shoulde walke in them But before this workemanshippe of Iustification we were but very enimies And therefore as sainct Augustine saith Quae merita bona tuÌ„c habere poter amus quando Deum non diligebamus VVhat good merites could we then haue when as yet we loued not God VVithout fayth it is impossible to please god And what soeuer is not of fayth is sinne Nowe this fayth which lykewise is not of vs but is the gifte of God we discerne from workes bicause it hath relation to the onely mercies of God promised in Christ vnto vs Which promises fayth catching holde vpon is the only meanes and instrumeÌ„t that God hath giuen vs to receiue the frée offer of his grace and to applie to vs forgiuenesse of our sinnes And so stedfastly beléening the same we are iustified by God onely as the efficient and actiue worker by Christ onely as the formall cause in whome our righteousnesse consisteth and by faythe onely as the instrument giuen of God vnto vs wherby we receiue the same And this sayth S Paule exemplifying it by Abraham Quid enim dicit scriptura For what sayth the scripture Abraham beleeued God and it vvas imputed to hym for righteousnesse But to him that worketh rewarde is not imputed according to grace but according to duetie But vnto him that worketh not but beleeueth in him that iustifieth the vvycked his faythe is imputed to righteousnesse according to the purpose of the grace of God. And this is that we say fayth onely iustifieth that is fayth is the onely eye that séeth the onely hande that catcheth holde vpon the onely meanes whereby we receiue the onely instrument wherewith we applye to our selues
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
of the Papistes I demaunde if Peter was made the first priest al other froÌ„ him how s. Iames could say the first masse that was said was Peter made Priest without singing or saying his first masse or any masse at al then belike Peter was no masse 〈◊〉 priest 〈◊〉 pope hath not hâ—… principalitie of priesthood froÌ„ Peter nor any priesthod at all from him for Peters was no massing Priesthoode suche as the Popes is and pretendeth to be the principall of that order But at your leysure answere this onely nowe I note that there is a great difference betwéene the principalitie of Priesthoode and the supremacie of all the Churche of Christe which is your conclusion and that that your Pope chalengeth But the Emperours words héere do nothing proue it And yet suche principalitie or excellencie of Priesthoode as it was it neither came from God nor from Peter for any thing that either is playnely alleaged or proued héere but rather the playne wordes are to the contrarie that this principalitie was yéelded and giuen to the Bishop of the Citie of Rome by men for so sayth the Emperour antiquit as contulit antiquitie gaue it Béeing partly moued with the opinion that Peter was bishop there and partly for that Rome was the auncient and moste famous Citie of the Empire as appeareth in the nexte Epistle of Placidia by you mentioned who calleth it Ciuitatem antiquam the auncient Citie and the Citie that is the Lady of all the Emperours Cities And therefore it became them to conserue the reuerence therof For which considerations that antiquitie gaue to it the principalitie and to the bishop therof Which principalitie of priesthoode or bishophâ—… was not aboue but vnder the principalitie of the Emperours estate as appeareth euen by these Epistles cited by you For first in the Epistle whereout ye take your allegation Ualentinianus telleth howe when he came to Rome I was sayth he bothe of the Romane Bishop and also of other that were with him gathered togither out of diuers prouinces entreated to write to your mildnesse saith Ualentinian to Theodosius of the fayth which beeing the preseruer of all faythfull soules is sayd to be troubled which fayth beeing deliuered vs froÌ„ our Elders we ought to defend with al coÌ„peteÌ„t deuotioÌ„ in our times to coÌ„serue vnblemished the dignitie of the reuerence proper to the blessed Apostle Peter so that the most blessed B. of the citie of Rome to whom antiquitie hath giuen a principalitie of Priesthood aboue all others may O most blessed Lorde Father and honorable Emperour haue place and facultie to iudge of the faith of the Priests and for this cause according to the solemnitie of Councels the Bishop of Constantinople hath appealed to him by his Libels for the contention that is sprong vp of the faith to him therefore requesting and adiuring me by our common sauing health I denied not to grauÌ„t thus much as to moue my petition to your mildenesse that the foresaid Priest meaning the Bishop of Rome all the other Priestes being also gathered togither through all the worlde within Italy all other former iudgement set aside may with diligent triall searching all the matter that is in controuersie from the beginning giue such sentence thereon as the faith and the reason of the true diuinitie shall require For in our times the frowardnesse of multitudes ought not to preuayle against religion since hitherto the faith hath bene conserued stedfast And to the more perfect instruction of your worthinesse we haue also directed the gestes whereby your godlinesse may know the desires and outcries of them all Thus farre the Epistle Which if ye had withall sette downe it wold haue dashed your Marginall note and conclusion of the Popes supremacie It would haue shewed that this principalitie of priesthoode was so vnder the Princes principalitie that the Pope was faine to labour to Ualeâ—…tinian and the Empresses also to write to Theodosius that he might haue place leaue to iudge the matter And that the place of iudging it might be in Italie and the Bishop of Rome might giue sentence not as he him selfe should please but conditionally as the truth should require and that thus he would admit the Bishop of Constantinoples appeale to take place and so he sendeth all the gestes of the matter for the Emperour to peruse and know them and to graunt their petitions and desires In all whiche things though there were a principalitie of the Priestes and Bishops and chiefly of the Bishop of the chiefe emperiall Citie olde Rome so farre as appertayneth to the debating discussing and iudging the doubtes in controuersie yet so farre as appertayneth to the licencing thereto the commaunding directing ordering setting out and maintayning euen of the same Synodicall iudgements of the Bishop of Rome or any other the supreme principalitie belonged to the Emperours And this appeareth yet furder by the other Epistles that ye mention In the next Epistle of the Empresse Placidia to Theodosius the Emperour hir Sonne for the Bishops of Rome and of Constantinople after she hath shewed with what teares the Bishop of Rome moued hir to write she sheweth how all thinges were done vnorderly at Ephesus against Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople bicause sayeth she he sent a libell to the Apostolicall seate and to all the Bishops of these parties by those which were in the Councell directed from the moste Reuerende Bishop of Rome VVho are accustomed O moste holy Lorde my Sonne and Reuerent Emperour to be put according to the Decrees of Nicene Councell and for this cause let your mildenesse withstanding so great troubles commaunde the truth of the Religion of the Catholike faith to be kepte vndefiled And so ascribing a principall prerogatiue to the Bishop of Rome she desireth the Emperor that the iudgement of the matter may be sent ouer to him Which sheweth that the Bishop of Romes principalitie was vnderneath the Emperours Likewise in the next Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius after she hath praysed the Emperour saying It is knowne vnto all men that your mildenesse hath a care and earnest heedefulnesse of Christians and of the Catholike faith in so much that you would commaunde nothing at all to be done to the iniurie of it And after she hath shewed how the Bishop of Rome besought hir in the foresaide matter to derect hir letters to the Emperour saluting you sayth she I desire right that your tranquilitie would vouchsafe to haue care to the letters and those things that are ill done ye would commaunde them to be amended vntill that all things that also already are determined be altogither reuoked the cause of the faith and Christian religion that is moued in a Councell gathered togither in the partes of Italy may be fetched out For it is written that all this contention raysed commeth from hence that the Bishop Flauianus might be remoued from the Ecclesiasticall dealings Thus do these
Empresses write for Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople and for the Bishop of Rome Wherein though they ascribe the dealings to the Councell and to the Bishop of Rome yet the licence and authoritie to do any thing or to stay any thing they al ascribe to the Emperour And as they ascribe this in these Epistles vnto him which argueth his supreme gouernement in all these matters so the Emperour in the answeres to these Epistles that are immediatly set downe to those by you cited acknowledgeth and claymes his supreme authoritie therein In the answere to the first from whence ye bring your allegation for the Popes primacie he saith The Emperour Theodosius to my Lord Valentinian Emperour In the beginning of your letters it is signified by your Maiestie both that your mildenesse came to Rome and that a petition was offered vp to you by Leo the most reuerende Patriarche As concerning your safe returne to the Citie of Rome O my Lorde my moste holy Sonne and honorable Emperour we render thankes accordingly to the diuine Maiestie but as concerning those things which the foresaide most reuerende man hath spoken it is already declared vnto him more plainly and fully as we suppose and he knoweth that we swarue in no parte from the Religion of our fathers and the tradition of our auncetours We will no other thing than the fathers sacraments deliuered as by succession to keepe them inuiolably For this cause therefore hauing knowledge that certaine persons with hurtfull noueltie trouble the most holy Churches we haue decreed a Synod to be holden at Ephesus VVhereas in the presence of the most reuerend Bishops with much libertie and with sounde truth both the vnworthie were remoued from their Priesthood and those that were iudged to be worthy were receyued VVe therefore know nothing committed of them contrary to the rules of faith or iustice Therefore all the contention was examined of the holy Councell Flauianus which was founde giltie of hurtfull newfanglednesse hath receiued his dew and he being remoued all peace and concorde remaineth in the Churches and nothing but truth doth florish Thus the dealing and determining of the controuersie remayning Synodically to the Priests and Bishops the decreing of the Councell the assigning of the time and place thereto the giuing them in charge to boulte out the truth the receyuing intelligence from them of their iudgements the allowing and ratifying their determination belonged to Theodosius And in respect of this his supreme doing though at other times he extoll the Bishop of Rome yet here he onely calleth him but most reuerende Patriarche and most reuerend man as he calleth other Bishops The answere to the second Epistle hath the like Theodosius to my Ladie Placidia the honorable Empresse our highnesse vnderstandeth by the letters of your mildenesse what the most reuerende patriarch Leo hath desired of your highnesse To these your letters we declare that concerning those things whiche are spoken of the most reuerende Bishop we haue written often times alreadie more fully and more at large by which writing it is without doubt manifest that we haue defined or decreed or vnderstoode nothing besides the fayth of the fathers or the diuine opinions or the definitions of the most reuerende Bishops which were gathered togither in the Citie of Nice vnder Constantine of godly memorie or of late were gathered togither at Ephesus by our precept But this onely we commaunded to be ordeyned that all persons which by noisome hurtfulnesse troubled the holy Churches should worthily be remoued c. Thus doth the Emperour commaunde the Councell to be holden He giueth a generall charge to the Bishops to ordeyne that that they ordeyned to wete the expulsion or deposition of perturbers of the Church whatsoeuer they were and in what matter ecclesiasticall soeuer they were And when the Bishops had according to the Emperours commaundement ordeynes this decrée and in their synodicall discussing of the matter found out Flauianus though therein they did him wrong to be culpable hereof then the Emperor peruseth ratifieth and confirmeth the same their synodicall iudgement and sayth he defined and decreed it himselfe bicause he approued and confirmed their definition and decrée Which is a manifest argument of Thodosius supreme authoritie ouer all the Bishops debatings and determinings of their ecclesiasticall constitutions To the same effect is the other Epistle to Eudoxia Wherin he telleth the Empresse flatly that since these things were alreadie decreed it was not possible to determine of the matter any more In which deniall of suffring the matter to be tryed any further he sheweth also his supreme authoritie of debarring and frustrating any appeales to Rome that you make so great accompt vpon The Emperour will not onely not suffer it to take place and to infringe the Councels and his owne doing but sayth it is impossible to procéede on the matter alreadie determined And thus he reiecteth Flauianus appeale from the Epheâ—…ine Councell to the Bishop of Rome Which Councell notwithstanding should also haue bene held by the Emperours leaue and appoyntment But he would not allow it although Pope Lee laboured to him and to Ualentinian Emperors to Eudoria and Placidia Empresses neuer so much therefore Lo M. St. here are the generalities and the particularities also Wherein ye may sée what belongeth to eyther partie Hearken good M. Stap. and giue good aduertisement therto since ye will not vtter it your selfe and yet woulde haue vs listen to you You say ye wander not in obscure generalities but ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly And yet of all this ye speake not one word Ye would neither answerâ—… the Bishops allegation but set another agaynst it which is no plaine nor true kinde of aunswering neither yet for that you alleage ye alleage it either plainely or truely or particularly as ye pretende But cull out a piece of that that séemeth to set forth your cause by extolling the Bishop of Rome and when the matter is plainly truly and particularly sifted out it neither proueth any supremacie for him and in all poynts sheweth the Princes supremacie against you But ye are the more to be borne withall for I thinke ye read not the whole particulars but either as your commoÌ„ places led you or the title prefixed tickled you that saith In qua quoque Romani Pontificiâ—… authoritas comâ—…ndatur VVherein also the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome is commended And so gréedily ye snatched at that sentence and let go all the residue But call ye this plainly truly and particularly going to worke master Stapleton The. 26. Diuision THe Bishop hauing hitherto as master Feck required in his issue proued by the Scriptures both by the olde testament and the newe and by some such Doctours as haue written thereon and also which was more than M. Feck requested by the ecclesiasticall writers Nicephorus and by some of those Emperors whom they commend for most godly proued the like
the royall power hath done it submitteth it selfe to the true power ecclesiasticall as not hauing a superioritie of all ecclesiasticall matters to exercise or doe them but hauing a superioritie in all ecclesiastical matters to ouersée them rightly don and exercised And this distinction of of and In M. Sanders him selfe vsed immediatly before and vseth againe in the fourth chapter folowing which also is a common distinction and therfore I maye well vse it bycause it not onely expresseth the manner of the Princes Supremacie but also detecteth the Papistes common fallatiâ—…n as thoughe by the name of Supreme gouernour the Queenes Maiestie tooke vppon hir the gouernement Ecclesiasticall when shée onely taketh vpon hir that is due vnto hir a gouernement in causes ecclesiasticall Secondly I answere that although there be no comparison betwene these two powers yet is the royall power farre aboue that which here he makes it that nothing belonging to this power hath bâ—…n reuealed from heauen pertaining to eternal saluation hid in Christ but only to matters that conserue peace among men springing of the seedes of nature either for profite or necessitie Herein he saith in dede as St. doth but this is no lesse manifest vntruth than shamefull slauÌ„der to all christian princes estates The Scripture is euident to the contrarie as well in Gods institution of the royall power as in all the examples of godly Princes commended in the Scripture not so much for their worldly policie Iustice peace and naturall giftes as for matters pertaining to eternall saluation both hidde in Christe and reuealed in Christe also And let these things sayth he be spoken for the originall of either power The seconde point of difference he maketh in the vse and office saying But so farre as belongeth to the vse and office of those thynges wee knovve that distinction to bee obserued in them that he which had the full power ecclesiasticall might also haue had in gouernyng the people of God vvithoute any especiall consecration as happened in Noe in Melchizedech in Abraham in Moyses in Helie and in Samuel and in the Machabees Howebeit it was not onlyke sorte true that hee vvhiche eyther by the Lawe of Nations oâ—… the Ciuil was kyng whiche is the firste degree of honour in this kynde shoulde streightway haue also the power Ecclesiasticall except that right had ben giuen vnto him by especiall consecration Yée confonnde your owne tale Maister Saunders and speake contraries Before ye sayde speakyng of the Ciuil power of faythfull Kinges Christus talem in sui regni Ministris esse noluerit Christe in the Ministers of his his kingdome woulde haue no suche power Now ye say He that hadde the one power had vvithout any especiall consecration the other also And hereto yée â—…ite these holye Fathers Noe Melchizedech Abraham Moyses Hâ—…lie Samuel and the Machabees Were none of these Ministers in the kingdome of Chryste Besydes this ye confoâ—…nde your distinction heaping vp confusedly these wytnesses of the whych but one serueth proprely to the purpose of the former part of youre distinction for the Priestes to haue had the Ciuil power â—…nd that is Helie to whome proprely the Ecclesiasticall power belonged being the high Priest and likewise had the Ciuil power béeing the Iudge also But yet this was not without some especiall consecration or appoyntment of God thervnto For else eyther it had ben ordinarie to his predecessours or he had vsurped it sithe none was Iudge among the Israelites all the whyle that the Ciuil power was directed by that kinde of gouernement but those that were by especiall calling appointed of God thereto As for the other were of dyuerse tymes and sortes The holye Patriarkes Noe Melchizedech and Abraham hadde I graunte also bothe powers Ecclesiasticall and Ciuil But at that tyme before the lawe when bothe estates pertayned to them by their birthrighte And this maketh rather for the Ciuill magistrate to haue had the ecclesiastical power than for the Ecclesiastical magistrate to haue had the ciuill power For the gouernment descending to them by reason of their birthright was a naturall or ciuill gouernment as your selfe before confessed saying Eâ—…enim vt pater infilium c. For as the father hath a certain power ouer his sonne the grandsier ouer his nephew and so foorth the elder ouer the yonger this verily god hath wrought by the lawe naturall while by the maner and order of my birth he declareth him to be my superiour which either ministred the cause why I should be borne or else is ioyned in some kindred with him by whome I was borne And so these Patriarkes by birthright hauing the ciuil power by the law of Nature as ye confesse had not the ciuil power bycause they had the Ecclesiasticall but rather had the Ecclesiasticall power bycause they had Ciuile power by natural righte till these two offices were by the Lawe of Moyses seuered As for Moyses and the Machabees were indeed of the tribe of Leui. Moyses had power in bothe estates but béeing before the Ecclesiasticall power was lotted to the tribe of Leui and béeing the lawemaker in appoynting it to the race of his brother Aaron his example maketh agayne for the Ciuile Magistrate rather to haue hadde the gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters than the Ecclesiasticall in the Ciuill The Machabees by an extraordinarie vocation had the Ciuile power As for Samuell was also of the tribe of Leui but yeÌ„t no Prieue althoughe a Prophet and the Iudge also but by especiall calling of God thereto Nowe all these estates béeyng thus diuers bothe in sortes and tymes hee confoundeth together to enforce his obseruation that the Priestes ordinarylye maye deale in the Princes office but in no case the Prince maye deale with any thing belonging to the Priests and yet his owne examples make agaynst him But he addeth without some especiall consecration But what especiall consecration had Dauid had Salomon had Ezechias c. to gouerne the Priests in their ecclesiasticall matters We reade of no especiall consecration other than the dutie of their royall power But wherto tendeth all this forsooth priests may deale with Princes and take the Ciuil power vpon them ordinarily but Princes in no case may deale with Priests Herevpon say you when Ozias woulde haue offred incense vpon the altar of incense Azarias the Priest wente in after him and with him the Priestes of the Lorde resisted the king and sayde It is not thy office Ozia to offer incense to the Lorde but it is the office of the Priests that is to say of the sonnes of Aaron that are consecrated to suche mysterie The example of Ozias is often â—…rged of himselfe and al his fellowes howbeit it is méere impertinent flaundederous The Prince taketh not vpon hir as Ozias woulde haue done the power nor office nor administration ecclesiasticall But suche power as Ozias did well take vpon him while
that the Kyng should be obedient to the disposition of the humaine minister of Christ which is the question nowe in hande And yet whether it signifie this mysterie that you say it onely doth or no may be called into question For if it hath such a significatiō it is a very darke mysterie And me thinks it might more easilye signifie other things For oyle sometimes signifieth mercie sometimes plentie sometimes remedie against poyson sometimes it is referred to the Priesthoode sometimes to the kingdome of Christ somtimes to the mysticall members of Christ as they are Kings Priests with him so that the anoynting with oyle which espetially was vsed to Priests and Kings who therefore are called the sons of oyle is applyed to sundry significations and not onely to the incarnation and humaine nature of Christe And yet is there no suche necessitie of anoynting Christian Kings as was of the Iewishe Kings For they had commaundement so to doe and it was a ceremoniall figure of diuerse things in christ Which commaundement and ceremonies Christian Princes are not bound vnto It is cropen vp of a custome I cānot tel how to imitate the Iewes herein But as for the nature of a Kings estate he is neuer a whit the lesse King if he wante the anoynting with oyle and as the Papistes superstitiouslie doe vse it it were muche better away But the Papistes make a great matter of anoynting Kings with oyle yea sayth Maister Saunders they were wont to be annoynted no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes as thoughe they shoulde be so anoynted still And true it is in one sense that they shoulde no other wise be so annoynted still that is to say neyther of them shoulde be anoynted No say you should not the Priestes be annoynted ▪ We are In deede you be Maister Saunders and all your order But the Apostles and Disciples of Christe were not and therefore your order is differing from theirs and all godly ministers should differ from yours be ye shorne or be ye anoynted But if it be true that you say kings should be no otherwise anoynted than you howe chaunce then ye are anoynted otherwise than kings as your glosse doth reason that vpon the King is powred oile but vpon the Bishop is powred Chrisme Kings are anoynted on the righte shoulder but Byshops and Priestes are annoynted vpon their heads but the heade is better than the shoulder and Chrisme is better than oyle Ergo Bishops and Priests are superior vnto Kings Were not they which anoynted their pamphlets with such greasie argumentes to perch vp their balde crownes aboue the imperiall crownes of their natural Soueraignes worthy by the Princes commaundemente to be well anoynted with vnguentum baculinum to make them acknowledge their due subiection if they rather deserue not sharper instice but let vs procéede vnto M. Saunders other arguments Let vs put the case that Christ himselfe is at this day conuersant in the earth as he was conuersant in times paste Can any man doubt but in that he is man al Christian kings ought to be vnder his gouernment both in all eccl. and in those secular causes that may promote the cause of the Chruche for he shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and there shal be no ende of his kingdomes If therefore earthly Kings are parte of the house of Iacob Christ shall raigne ouer them and shall subdue their Kingdomes to hys spirituall Kingdome But whatsoeuer power was necessarye vnto Christe to eternall saluation he transformed the externall and and visible ministerie thereof vnto the Apostles when he said as my father hath sent me so I send you The Apostles therefore and their successors doe no lesse rule in spiritual causes ouer Christian Kings so far as the visible Ministerie than Christ himselfe is in truth ouer them so farre as the holy power of his humaine nature VVherevpon sayth Epiphanius Christ hath giuen a kingdome to those that are placed vnder him that it should not be sayde he proceedeth from little things to greater The throne of Christ abideth and of his kingdome there is no ende and he sitteth vpon the throne of Dauid so that he hath translated the kingdome of Dauid together with the Bishoprike and hath giuen it vnto his seruaunts that is to the Bishops of the Catholike Church Beholde so well the priestly as the Kingly power is communicated to the pastors of the Churche of Christe that by that meanes Christ shoulde be declared to raigne for euer yea euen as a spirituall and heauenly man And this truelye dothe that annoynting testifie that the Kings receyue of Priests The argument is thus If Christ himselfe were conuersant in earth in his humaine nature as he hath bene he shoulde haue ouer all Christian kings all eccl. and secular power in those things that might promote the Church But Christ hath giuen to his ministers in the visible ministerie all the power necessarie to saluation ouer Christian kings that belongeth to himselfe in his humaine nature Ergo he hath giuen his Ministers in the visible ministerie all ecclesiasticall and secular power in those things that maye promote the Church First this argument standeth vpon another presupposal which as it is no lesse false than the other so is it more impossible being flat contrarie to the worte of God and to the will of christ He puttes a case that Christ woulde come againe and in his humaine nature be conuersant vpon the earth as he was from his natiuitie till his death Good Lord M. Saūders is your cause so bad and false that you are still driuen to these shiftes to put the cases of false and forged presupposals if your cause were good it woulde stand of it selfe you might go plainely to worke and neuer reason vpon suche deuised cases as you knowe and beleue shall neuer be true except you be a Millenarie indéede as you gaue before a shrewde suspition of that heresie to think Christ shall come againe and here for a thousand yeares in all worldly might and glorie raigne in the earth and then go dwell in heauen But perhaps you wil say what wil you let me to put what case I lyft when the sky falles they say we shal haue Larkes True M. Saunders we can not let you to put what case you lyst be it neuer so absurde and repugnant to the truth But is this the rediest way to boult out the truth to put the case of an euident vntruth and to imagine that to come that neuer shall be to inferre that vsurpation of your Priestes that is and ought not to be But sée howe sone your argument is ouerturned For if your case be not admitted then is all your labour loste and you haue wonne nothing for your Priestes But the Scripture is manifest that this shall neuer come to passe And that the heauens containe Christ til the day of Iudgement he is neither here