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A14190
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The state of the Church of Englande laide open in a conference betweene Diotrephes a bishop, Tertullus a papist, Demetrius an vsurer, Pandocheus an in-keeper, and Paule a preacher of the word of God.
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Udall, John, 1560?-1592.
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1588
(1588)
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STC 24506; ESTC S119619
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24,951
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68
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if I were conâ—icted might be punished or else they might haue the rewarde that molesters of the preachers of the Gospell do deserue he graunted it me and appoynted a day which being come rather than I whome hee thought not to fauor his authoritie should haue anie helpe at his handes hee made mee a sleeueles aunswere and sent mee away Thus are Byshoppes coutented to bee bawdes vnto al kinde of sinners rather than they will any way seeme to further the ministerie of those whome they fauour not and euen thus doe you for your hatred vnto my person maketh you to stand with that monstrous vsurer but take hecde of it for God will not be mocked he seeth your dealing and will iudge you accordingly howsoeuer you can pretend the contrarie to the world Diotreph As for mine owne part I passe not what you speake but let me aske you one question concerning these holie fathers and that is this what reason is there that they should do anie good in any respect vnto any of you seeing they knowe you to bee professed foes vnto their dignities Paule Because they taking themselues to be the fathers of the Church shoulde haue a regarde to the good cause and defend it without respect of persons Diotreph No sir I see no reason in that for aboue all things they must look to theÌ„selues without whose authoritie the Gospell would be troden vnder foote and therfore they may defend no cause nor person further than may stand with their owne safety Paule Suppose that were lawfull what hinderance is this to themselues to see theÌ„ that bee common and knowne drunkards vsurers adulterers and profane persons punished for that they are railers at me for teaching the ' trueth of religion and reproouing sharply their godlesse conuersation Diotreph Oh you are a simple man it is great hinderance for they can do nothing in defence of you though it be in matters wherein you and they doe agree but it tendeth to the derogation of their own estimation such is the contrarietie betwixt your building and theirs Paule By that meanes shall we be so wearied with aduersaries that we shal neuer haue any hope to doe good but euen to be constrained to giue ouer the ministerie Diotreph I woulde I might see that once come to passe we haue laboured for it hitherto and neuer could attaine vnto it neyther will the Church euer bee in quiet vntill you all be turned out Paule So thought the Sodomites that they should neuer be wel so long as Lot was in their citie but when he was gone fire from heauen consumed them but I pray you tell me if all were turned out how should the people be taught for it is euident that none else almost maketh a conscience of his duty that way Diotreph You think teaching wold faile without you No sir teaching woulde bee more regarded than it is Paule Shew me how that can be Diotreph Wee woulde haue none to preach aboue once a moneth and then shoulde he doe it profoundly and confirme his matter out of the fathers and humane writers substantially whereas you taking vpon you to preach three or foure times a week must not onely of necessitie handle your matters verie rawlie but also breede loathsomnesse in the people Paule Surely my hart waxeth cold and my flesh trembleth to heare you speake so monstrously dooth preaching consist in quoting of doctors and alleadging of Poets and Philosophers in what part of his commission hath a minister war rant so to do You finde fault with our often preaching because your selues cannot so doe but if you woulde leaue off your vaine glory in hunting after promotion and your couetousnesse in adding murther vnto theft I meane liuing to liuing and betake your selues to study and praier bending your whole indeuor to the glorie of God and edifying of his people you should see the blessing of God so aboundantly vppon you that you shold preach foure times euery week with more fruite than you can doe nowe foure times euery yeare for while you bee minded as you are the Lords iudgment is vpon your gifts and his cursse vpon your labours that you appeare ridiculous euen vnto children And whereas you say often preaching cloyeth the people you shewe your selfe plainely to haue no feeling in the sweetnes of the worde of God for it is so delightfull vnto the childe of God that the more he heareth and readeth it the more desirous is he to proceede therein it is the propertie of the vngodly to whome the word is foolishnes to be cloied with the same Diotreph You shal not be my teacher neither wil I learne at your hands I know wel inough what I haue to do Paule I do not speak as a teacher vnto you but in brotherly loue doo admonishe you and if you refuse mine or rather the councell of the holie-ghost vttered by me you doo but as they do whose condition you defend I pray God forgiue it you and lay it neither to your nor their charge Diotreph They are great moates in your eies they know better what to do than you can tell them they see what is meet for the Church being auncient graue men of long experience better than a sort of yong boyes start vp but yesterday Paule Though some be but yong yet al are not so for we haue some more ancient than they haue any we haue of all ages and degrees of Schooles to compare with the best of them and yet yeares and humane learning and experience must not carrie away the matter but the euidence of truth in the old new Testament and as for experience they haue none for they were first brought vppe in the vniuersities then became Deanes and such iollie fellowes and nowe are made Mitred Lordes so that they cannot tel what it is to traine vp a people to the gospel reclaime them from ignorance and sinne for they neuer stouped so lowe as to labour therein but if they had euen my experience they would sing an other song for before I came into the haruest to worke I liked their hierarchy wel inough but when I laid it to my labours to further them I found that they coulde not possibly stand together Diotreph Did the gospell euer so flourishe in EnglaÌ„d as it doth now at this present Paule No surely God be praised for it and encrease it more more but to what end do you speake it Diotreph To prooue that the authoritie and wise gouernement of the Bishops hath had good successe Paule I thought so but it is if you woulde looke into the matter with a single eie cleane contrarie for the good that hath bin done the Lorde hath brought it to passe by these menne whome you despise and by that course which the Bishops were euer enemies vnto â—â—â—â—â—eph How can you proue that I pray you let mee heare your reasons that mooue you to thinke so for I am perswaded of the cleane contrarie Paule It serueth not
The state of the Church of Englande laide open in a conference betweene Diotrephes a Bishop Tertullus a Papist Demetrius an vsurer Pandocheus an In-keeper and Paule a Preacher of the word of God PSAL. 122. 6. Pray for the peace of Hierusalem let them prosper that loue the Lord. REVEL 14. 9. 10. And the third Angel followed them saying with a loud voice if any man worship the beast and his image and receiue his marke in his forehead or on his hande the same shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God THE PRAEFACE JEntle Reader I haue sette down heere in a dialogue the practize of Sathan which hee vseth as I haue obserued by experience to subuert and vtterly ouerturne the course of the gospel here in England the names of the speakers containe in them for the moste parte the matter that they defend and the affection that they are of For thou knowest that Diotrephes was hee of whom S. Iohn speaketh in his third Epi. v. 9. that louing to haue the preheminence disturbed the course of good things in the Church and therefore sustaineth the person of a Bishop or byshoplie prelate Tertullus is he of whom Luke speaketh in the 24. Acts that was the speaker in the ambassage from Hierusalem to Foelix the gouernor against Paule in the defence of ceremonies abrogated from the ouerthrowe of the Gospell and so representeth the Papists that maintaine their trash to the rooting out of true religion Demetrius is he of whom mention is made in Actes 19. that was enemie to Paule because he liued by an vnlawfull trade and for that cause doth play the part of an vsurer Paule was the defender you knowe of the Gospell in sinccritie he whose pen the holy Ghost did vse to expresse the discipline of the church most clerely and therefore speaketh for the ministers of our time that stand for reformation Pandocheus is an In-keeper in Greeke and it is as much as to say a receiuer of all and a soother of euerie man for his gaine so that the persons in their nature thus considered it remaineth that thou wouldest be intreated by me whosoeuer thou art to whoÌ„ this little booke shall come that thou wouldest in reading of it set all affectioÌ„ aside neither beleeue it because one of thy disposition did pen it neither yet reiâ—ct it because it was not composed by one of thy complexion but considdâ—r well of the speeches vttered by euerie partie compare them with the practize of the worlde and then looke what it is that so hardeneth Pandocheus in Atheisine Demetrin in vsurie Tertullus in Papistrie and you shall I doubt not plainely perceiue that the cause of all vngodlines so to raigne in euery place and of the Papists so to increase in strength and number ariseth from our Byshops and their vnlawfull gouernement on the other side looke into the answers that Diotrephes maketh to Paul and the councell that Tertullus giueth to Diotrephes and compare them with the practize of the B. in all pointes and you shall euidentlye perceiue that the cause why the gospel being so long preached hath taken so little effect ariseth from them onely forsomuch as they haue weakened the knees of the true Preachers and euerie way crossed them in all good actions I haue touched thinges verie briefly of purpose partly for that they who see what reformation meaneth will quickly vnderstand my meaning and partly for that I would haue him that vnderstandeth not mine intent and would be resolued to confer at large of it wyth some godly learned for his further instruction Now I pray thee let mee intreat thee to think thus of mine intent namely that it is not of purpose to disgrace any man albeit we ought to disgrace them by whom God his sonne is disgraced but especially to this end that euery man in his calling might see howe hee is or hath beene made an instrument to do harme or for want eyther of knowledge or prouident forecast being ouertaken vnder colour of right and law lastly that we al seeing the subtilties of the deuill againste the kingdom of Christ Iesus may first of al returne to God by speedie repentance from the wickednesse that we haue in our hands which in deede is the cause of this cursse vpon vs and then praie vnto his Maiestie that he would detect the craftie subtilties of all his aduersaries reueale the trueth to those that are seduced and abused and erect the kingdome of his Sonne Christ Iesus amongst vs by the forme of that discipline that his owne worde expresseth vnto vs. The state of the Church of England Diotreph MIne hoste I pray you stay with me and my friende M. Tertullus and tell vs some newes for wee are lately come out of Scotland and would heare before wee come nere London in what state things doo stand least wee comming on a sudden speede as ill as wee did at Edenborough and S. Andrews Pandoch Good my Lorde I canne tell you no great newes for I go not so farre as to Church once in a moneth but if I doo happen to go one of my seruants doth come for me in all haste to make merrie with one guest or other but there be twoo in this house that came from London if it please your L. I wil intreat one of them to come vnto you it may be he can tell you some thing Diotreph I pray thee doo so you are welcome my friend I vnderstand that you came from London I pray you tell me some newes for I hauing beene in Scotland some space haue not heard much of the state of England Demetri My L. I heare no newes but that our Bishoppes Gods blessing haue theyr heartes for it say pretie wel by one and by one to these precise and hot Preachers for some of them are putte to silence some of them close prisoners in the Gate-house some well loden wyth yrons in the White-lyon and some in the Clinke I hope to see them one day all put downe for they trouble the whole land and are neither contented to obey the authoritie of these holie fathers neyther yet will suffer vs to liue as our fore-fathers haue doone before vs and heere is a good fellowe which I met yesterday vppon the way who is iust of their opinion Pandoch I knowe not of what religion hee of whome you speake is of but I am sure that hee hath manie of our Preachers quallities for whiche I like him the woorse for since our Preacher came I haue not gained halfe so much as heretofore I did but if I had but euery night suche a guest wythin one moneth all men woulde refraine from comming to mine house and so I might begge Diotreph Why mine hoste what are his qualities that you dislike so much Pandoeh VVhat I will tell you as soone as euer he lighted my man that tooke his horse chanced but to sweare by God and he was reproouing of him