thinges we praye for tende to the glo ie of God who is the authour and giuer of all thinges both eternall and temporal Things that are to be prayed for are of two sortes the o e temporall the other eternall but they both perteyne to the glorie of God though not equally and in lyke manner The wyse man sayeth in the dayes of prosperitie thinke of aduersitie c. Christe Math. 24. forewarning his disciples of the external afflictions and euils which should Prayers be daunger happen as well before the destruction of Ierusalem as the ende of the worlde willeth E cle 11. them to praye before the daunger be present saying Praye that your flight bee not in wynter nor vpon the sabbath and will you not ha e vs to praye for deliueraun e from Math. 24. such perilles and daungers wherevnto we be subiect except they be present shall we not praye to be deliuered from thundering lightening stormeand tempest plague and pestilence and such like except we be in manifest perill and daunger these things beyng in Gods handes to punishe vs with euen in a moment and when we thinke it moste vnlike haue we not sundrie examples of such as haue sodenly perished with thundering and lightening and some sithence the publishing of your booke what scripture The presum tion of the Re plier haue you or authoritie of any learned man to the contrarie wyll you be credited vpyour bare worde against so many graue learned wyse and godly men that ad the penning and allowing of that booke surely that were against all order and reason and it is to great presumption for you with so light and slender reasons to go aboute the ouerthrowe of that which so many godly and learned men haue both liked and allowed except they had allowed that which the scriptures do disalowe Chap. 2. the. 12. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 3. There was one Mamereus bishop of Vienna which in the tyme of great earthquakes which wer Plat. cap. Leo. in Fraunce instituted certayne supplications which the Grecians and we of them call the Letany which concerned that matter there is no doubt but as other discommodities rose in other countries they lykewyse had prayers accordingly Nowe pope Gregor e either made hymselfe or gathered the su plications that were made against the calamities of euery countrey and made of them a great Letany or supplication as Platina calleth it gaue it to be vsed in all churches which thyng albeit all churches might do for the tyme in respect of the case of the calamitie which the churches suffered yet there is no cause why it should be perpetuall that was ordeyned but for a tyme and why all landes should praye to be deliuered from the incommodities that some lande hath vin troubled with Io. Whitgifte As though we were not at all times subiect to these perilles and daungers and as though we ought not by the calamitie of other nations to be moued earnestly to pray against the like which might also happen to vs. It is not to be doubted but that the prayer of the iuste is acceptable to God and that of his mercy he beyng thereby moued doth stay from plaguing vs with earthquakes thundring and lightenyng and such like calamities wherewith he would otherwise punish vs. Truly your reasons be maruelous prophane and they might as well be alleaged The reason vsed agaynst the Letanie is of the same force agaynst the psalmes agaynst any of the Psalmes which all were made at the first vpon some speciall occasion and yet are profitable for euer in all states of the Churche to be vsed Whatsoeuer good and godly prayer in the time of any common miserie and calamitie hath bene inuented the same is at other times profitable to be vsed in the Church bycause the like punishments and plagues are in Gods handes at all times to execute vpon sinners and therefore continually to be prayed agaynst Chap. 2. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 4. The lyke may be sayde of the Gloria patri and the Athanasius Creede it was fyrst brought into the Churche to the inde that men thereby ▪ should make an open profession in the Churche of the diuinitie of the sonne of God agaynst the detestable opinion of Arius and his Disciples wherwith at that tyme maruelously swarmed almost the whole Christendome (*) A weake reason nowe that it hath pleased the Lorde to quench that fyre there is no such cause why these thinges shoulde be in the Church at the least why that Gloria patri should be so often repeated Io. Whitgifte Euen as conuenient now as it was then for it is as necessarie to maynteyne The manifestation and maintenance of truth as necessary as the suppressiō of errours truth and make it knowne as it is to suppresse errours and yet it is not vnknowne that euen in our dayes and in this Churche there haue bene Arians and I praye God there be none still I much suspect the matter not well vnderstanding wherevnto those glances of yours at Gloria patri ▪ and Athanasius Creede do tende Gloria patri besides that it conteyneth a briefe confession of the Trinitie and of the Diuinitie of Gloria patri Iesus Christe it is a magnifying and glorifying of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost thrée persons and one God and Athanasius creede is not onely an excellent Athanasius Creede confutation of Arius heresie but a playne declaration of the mysterie of the Trinitie such as is necessary for all Christian men to learne and know and therefore he that is offended with the ofte repetition or saying of eyther of them I cannot tell what I should iudge of him But vndoubtedly there is greate cause why I should suspect him at the leaste of singularitie and vnquietnesse Shall we not oftentymes rehearse the Articles of our beliefe in God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste bycause all menne be now perswaded therein and none knowne that maketh any doubte the reason is all one and preuayleth as well agaynst the repeating of this as of the other I thinke your meaning is that we know to muche and therefore now we must learne to forget Well your authoritie is little and your reasons much lesse and therefore they are lyke to stande in Statu quo and this is moste sure that harme they do none but much good bycause a good thing cannot be to ofte sayde or hearde Chap. 2. the. 14. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. vlt. Moreouer to make Benedictus Magnificat and Nunc dimittis ordinarie and dayly prayers seemeth to be a thing not so conuenient considering that they do no more concerne vs than all other scriptures do and than doth the Aue Maria as they called it For although they were prayers of thankes giuing in Simeon Zacharie and the blessed virgin Mary yet can they not be so in vs which haue not receiued like
disciples did minister the baptisme of water in times past without any doctrine and without giuing the holy Ghost for they baptised when as Christ taught and did not baptise as we haue before shewed out of the. 4. of Iohn and out of the 1. Cor. 1. for Paule Zuinglius sayth Christe sent me not to baptise but to preache therfore some taught and other baptised But we may gather out of the sixt of Iohn that baptisme was vsed before that men being indued with true faith did sticke vnto the doctrine for there we reade that many forsooke Christ whom notwithstanding no man doubteth to haue bin before baptised Again intreating of these wordes Euntes docete omnes gentes c. Math. 28. which the Anabaptistes vse for an argument to improue the baptisme of infantes bicause Christe sayd there Docete before he said Baptizate whereof they gather your assertion that preaching must go before baptisme and therefore conclude that infantes may not be baptised bicause they can not be taught saith thus By these wordes they which deny baptisme vnto infantes do not only seduce them selues but drawe others also into great errors and Laberinthes for vrging of the bare order of the wordes of Christe they haue nothing else in their mouthes but onely this Docete baptizate teache and baptise Beholde saye they the commaundement of Christe In the meane tyme they do not marke nay in deede they will not marke that the same thing that they so much crie vpon doctrine is afterwarde also set after when as he sayth Docentes eos seruare c. teaching them to obserue all those thinges vvhich I haue commaunded you By the which wordes it is manifest that baptisme is a signe whereby we giue our names and haue our firste entrance vnto Christ the which being giuen and receiued yet notwithstanding those thinges are to be taught and to be learned which Christ would haue vs to keepe but these men vrging the bare letter Crye still that Christe sayd Docete baptizate teache and baptise VVherfore I will also vrge the same bare letter but for their causes onely if by any meanes I might withdrawe them from their desire to contende Sirs you vrge that saying Go and teache al nations baptizing thē in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and I say this Baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost teaching them to obserue all things vvhatsoever I haue commaunded you VVherefore nowe I aske whither of vs hath the worde more plaine and apert that concerneth doctrine you verily bring the worde of God whiche proueth that men should be taught but what kinde of doctrine that is is not in those your wordes expressed But wee haue the worde of God more cleare and playne than yours which is Teaching them to obserue all those things vvhatsoeuer I haue commaunded you and these wordes are put after and not set before baptisme And a little after Although we graunt that this order of wordes hath some force in this place yet these things perteine nothing vnto young children and infantes that they should not be baptised before doctrine for these wordes perteine vnto those that are instructed in doctrine and the outward worde but it is manifest that infantes are not taught therfore these wordes can not so be referred vnto children that they ought not to be baptized And in the same booke speaking of this 3. chap. of Mathewe by you alleadged When preaching is necessary before 〈◊〉 and vsed of the Anabaptistes to the same purpose he graunteth that Iohn did preache before he did baptise For necessitie so required that by teaching he should expounde to the people the causes of baptisme For except doctrine were preached no man woulde in these our dayes haue their children baptized But after they were of yeares of discretion and had receiued faith through the ministerie of the doctrine as we reade that it was done of them in olde time they brought their children also to be baptised And in the ende he concludeth thus In the meane time we do willingly graunt this vnto them that doctrine and instruction ought to go before if at any time we come vnto infidels for none of the Heathen ought to be baptised but he which hath heard and beleued that doctrine which was before vnknowen vnto them and theirs Thus then you sée howe nere your opinion of the necessitie of preaching before the administration of the Sacramentes approcheth to the heresie of the Anabaptists If you would shifte off the matter as though you required not this necessitie of preaching before the administration of the Sacramentes alwayes in respecte of those whiche are ro receiue them but in respect of the rest which are present as this would be but a shifte so can it not agrée with your assertion for the lyfe of the sacramentes perteyneth not to those that bée present but vnto those that are partakers of them Wherefore M. Doctor néedeth not his egles eyes to espye your errors that I saye no worse but with dimmer sight than he hath might easely sée that you in this doctrine haue playnely ioyned handes with the Anabaptistes And yet I would not haue any man thinke that I mislyke preaching in the administration Preaching be fore the ministration not disalowed of the sacramentes which can be vnprofitable at no tyme but this only I affirme that it is not so necessarily ioyned with the administration of the sacramentes but that they may be rightly administred though the woorde be not at the same tyme preached ¶ Of Reading of the Scriptures Tract 13. A comparison betvvene reading of scriptures and preaching Chap. 1. the first Diuision T. C. Pag. 125. Sect. vlt. After this M. Doctor accuseth the authors of the Admonition as though they simply condemned reading the scriptures in the church and this accusation he foloweth in many wordes and in diuers places wherein as in a number of other places of their booke the authours of the Admonition haue cause to renew that olde complaynt of Theodorus which is that whensoeuer any thing is sayde that is vnpleasant that is by and by expounded otherwyse than it is ment of hym that speaketh it so that that which is giuen with the right hande is receyued with the lefte For the authors of the Admonition declaring their vtter mislikyng that there shoulde be in steade of a preaching minister (a) A daungerous parenthesis if I may so call hym and in steade of preachyng reading are vntruely expounded of M. Doctor as though they condemned all reading in the churche And here he maketh himselfe worke and picketh a quarell to blot a great deale of paper and to proue that which no man denieth for besydes this treatise he speaketh afterward of it in halfe a score pages euen from the. 159. page vntill the. 170. page so lighteth vs a candle at noone dayes
in the Defense for Archbishops and the superiority of Bishops 470. c. ¶ Archdeacons 344. c. ¶ Archiflamines 320. c. 323 ¶ Argumentum à secundùm quid ad simpliciter 23 Argumentum ab authoritate negatiuè 24. 26. 77. 328. 543 Argument of Negatiues by comparison 26 27 Argumentum à petitione principij 26. 62. 95. 249. 302. 304. 314. 322. 440. 451. Argumentum à non causa pro causa 27. 293. 482. Argumentum ab aequivocatione 62 Argumentum à facto ad us 142. 161. 505. Argumentum ab authoritate affirmatiuè 78 Argumentum ex solis particularibus pag. 79 Argumentum ab ignorantia Elenchi 109. 181. 187. 206. 426. A deformed argument 316. c. Arguments borowed of the Papists 466. 696. 697. 698. c. Argumentum à toto ad partes affirmatiuè 265 ¶ Aristotle not rightly alleaged 243 ¶ Arrogancie cloked with zeale 42 Arrogancie disprayseth good things pag. 725 Arrogancie of the libellers 57 ¶ Assertion vnaduised 475 ¶ Athanasius Archbishop 471. 339 Athanasius Creede 496 Athanasius being a child baptized pag. 519. ¶ Atheists in the Church 178 ¶ Auncient Fathers contemned of the vnlearned 811 ¶ Augustine of thinges indifferent pag. 99. c Augustine deliuered from vntrue surmises 100 Augustine heareth ciuill causes 771. 772. Augustine retorted vpon the aduersarie 811 ¶ Aurelius Bishop of Carthage had the ouersight of many Churches pag. 471 ¶ Authoritie the best proofe in Diuine matters 200 B ¶ Babling in prayer what it is 805 ¶ Baptisme the sacrament of fayth pag. 608. 609 Matters touching baptisme 607. c Of the parties to be baptised 619. c Baptisme once ministred remaineth perpetuall 622 The essentiall poynte of Baptisme pag. 519. Baptisme called priuate in respect of the place 93. 504 Baptisme ministred but once a yere pag. 238 Baptisme true though not ordinarily ministred 517. 521 Differring of Baptisme not cōuenient 521 Baptisme by lay men 518. 519. 523. Baptisme by women not collected out of the booke 504. 793. Baptisme by women not defended pag. 509. 516. 29. Baptisme ministred in priuate places 511. c. 513. Necessitie in Baptisme 523. Baptisme ministred withoute preaching 563 The name of Baptisme transferred to the giftes of the spirit 564 ¶ Basilius a Metropolitane 341. 471 ¶ Battus a babling Poet. 805 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 804 ¶ Beggers and ignorant persons are thoughte onely to bee saued of some 10 ¶ To beleue and to be elected not al one 611 ¶ Benedictus 494. c. 496. 497 ¶ Beza calleth the names of Archbishops c. holy names 472 Beza his iudgemēt of baptising the children of excommunicate person c. 623. 624. ¶ Bishops moste mete to haue the examination of ministers 131 Bishope haue authoritie to admitte ministers 196. c Bishops appointe their successours pag. 205 Bishops authoritie 297. c 408. Bishops called heades of the Churches 301 One ministerie of Bishops but diuerse degrees 320 A Byshop aboue a priest in Cyprians time 358 One Byshoppe in one Cittie 366. 444. Difference betwixte Byshoppe and Priest 383 Byshoppes in the Apostles tymes pag. 384. 470 Ieromes Byshoppe aboue an Elder in rule 385 Byshops gouernours simply not of one action onely 3 Byshoppes authoritie consisteth in offences 75 Byshop high priest 411. 470. 471. VVhat kinde of authoritie Byshops exercise 420 Byshoppes succede Apostles in gouernment 32 Comparison betwixte our Byshope and the olde Bishops 472 〈◊〉 Byshops alone excommunicate 6 6 c. Byshops may haue assistance in excommunication 673 Authoritie ascribed to Bishops in x communication not infinite but limited 6 8 Byshops gaue sentence in ciuill causes 773 ¶ A Bloudy assertion 150 ¶ Booke of common prayer Looke Communion Booke Booke of ordering Ministers iustifyed concerning examination pag. 134. 〈◊〉 42 The reasons of T. C. agaynste the Booke of ordering Ministers pag. 134. c ¶ Bodye what it signifieth in Caluine 46 Of these wordes The Body of ou e Lord Iesus Christ. c. 6 ¶ Bragges 58. 297 ¶ Bread in the Communion Looke Communion Bread ¶ Brethren may be punished 809 ¶ Bucer of things indifferēt 113. c. Bucers censure of the first Communion Booke 595 615 Bucer defaced by the Replyer 522 ¶ Burialls 727. c The place of Buriall 737 The dutie of the minister not hindred by burying the dead 730 A prayer at Buryall expounded pag. 729 The dead buryed by the minister with prayer 728 Buriall Sermons Looke funerall sermons C ¶ Caius Fimbria 7 8 ¶ Caluine acknowledgeth the names of Archbishop c. 417. c Caluine of thinges indifferente 109 c. Caluine alloweth Superioritie 390. 398. Diuerse editions of Caluines institutions 391. 50 Caluines opinion of Communion bread 592. c ¶ Canon law not altogether condemned 463 c ¶ Can is not taken for ought 778 ¶ Catechist and pastor differ 425 Catechi mes 152. c ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 280 ¶ Cathedrall Churches 742. c Cathedrall Churches before Antichristian Popes 747 A Colledge of Ministers in euery citie 747. Our Cathedrall Churches not much differing from those of old time pag. 747 The vse of Cathedrall Churches necessary 747 ¶ Cauilles 130. 352. 401. 506. 574. 585 628. ¶ A Caueat 448 A necessary caueat 481 ¶ Ceremonies of 2. sortes 80 How we haue but 2. ceremonies 119 Substantiall ceremonies 80 Accidentall ceremonies 80 Rules of ceremonies 86. 87 The controuersie about ceremonies confessed by T. C. 85. 86. 126 Euery church hath an order of ceremonies 707 How Ceremonies serue to edifying pag. 286. c. VVhy God appointed so many ceremonies to the Iewes 305 Disterence betwixt Popish ceremonies and oures 616 The ground of the Assertion about ceremonies vnanswered by T. C. pag. 94 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 158. c. 163 ¶ Children of Papists and excommu nicate persons may bee baptisedpag 621. c How children are said to beleue 608 ¶ Christ called Archbishop 300 Christ vsed vnleauened biead 593. c. ¶ Christian men sheepe but reasonable 172 The number of Christiās more now than in the Apostles times 175 ¶ Chrisostome an Archbishop 412. c. 472. Chris stome exerciseth Archiepiscopall iurisdiction in Asia 414 Chrisostome of distinctiō of degrees pag. 387 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 682 ¶ Church cannot be shut vp in one prouince now 465 The Church is reformed not transformed 474 To frame all churches after one is daungerous 481. 482 Church for the gouernours of the church 636. 66 No church maye challenge to bee a patterne necessarily to be followed 704 The church full of hypocrites 176 Some in the church and not of the church 179 No church established in the Apostles time how 180. 18 The church in persecution in Constantines time 188. 189 The Authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76. c. VVhat thinges are left to the order of the church 83. 88. c. 713. The
Sacramentes that cannot preache 4 Sacraments ministred in priuate pla ces 511. c. Doctrine tending to the derogation of Sacraments 524 Necessitie of saluation not tyed too Sacraments 52 5 4 The lyfe of Sacramentes dependeth not of preaching 566 Euery one muste applye the Sacrament to himself 601 The Sacramentes purely ministred pag. 606 Sacramentes receyue the name of things signified 608 VVhat is required to the making of a Sacrament 618 The proper signification of Sacraments 618 Outvvard Sacraments giue not grace pag. 73 Sacramentall signes 738 Euery thing signifying is not a Sacrament 291. 617. 618 ¶ Saintes dayes 543. c. VVhy the names of Saintes are gyuen to our lydayes 543 ¶ Saunders the Replier agree 695 ¶ Sceuola 708 Scarse the face of a church vvhat it implyeth 795 ¶ Scripture abused to coloure slate y pag. 10 Scripture alledged for the proofe of the phrase 22 The abusing of Scripture is too bee maintayned in none 22 Shiftes to coloure the vnapt allegation of Scripture 22 Scripturs vvrested and abused by the Admonition 58. 59. 61. 73. 128. 251. 261. 454. 460. 463. 655. 687. 752. Scripture wrested by T. C. 83. 84. 85. Scripture vnskilfully and fondly alleadged by T. C. 89. 90. 92. 172. 2 297. 374. 592. Canonicall Scripture onely perfect pag. 74 VVhat is said to be expressed in Scripture 77 VVherein the Scripture is sufficient pag. 7 VVhat things the scripture hath not expressed 83 Howe the Scripture conteyneth all things incident to the life of man pag. 84 ¶ Schismatikes 41 Schismarikes deserue to be sharpely reproued 778 Schismaticall meetings aptly called conuenticies 41 Schismaticall meetings not sufferable 41 ¶ Seniors and Seigniorie 626. c. The gouernment of Seniors ought to be perpetuall 633. c The office ascribed to Seniors depriueth the Magistrate of his authoritie 635. 643 The office of Seniors not commaun ded 637. 644 Difference betwixt necessitie of Pastors and of Seniors 644 Ieromes Seigniorie or Presbyterie pag. 652 Inconueniēces of the Seigniorie 657 c. VVhether Seniors were in euery con gregation 626. c. ¶ Sermons of the same nature with Hou ies 718 Seniors ▪ Looke Preachers ¶ A prescript forme of seruice 488. c. ¶ Shiftes of the Replier 293. 399. 418. 429. 462. 547. ¶ Sheapheard 220. 221. 237. 238. ¶ Things meere ciuil may haue signi fication 291 ¶ God vseth not the simple only 10 set sorth the truth 10 ¶ Similitudes weake arguments 220 ¶ A Sillogisme without al forme 316 ¶ Symcon Archbishop 341. 471 ¶ Singing used in all reformed churches 606 Singing of Psalmes by course 740. ¶ Singularitie and prope s therof pag. 14 ¶ Sitting at the cōmunion 597. c. ¶ If the Skie fal we may catch Larks pag. 465 ¶ Slaunderers are not the generation of Christ. 17 Slaunders 449. 558. 704. 739. 744. ¶ Socrates a fauorer of the Nouatians 350 Socrates doings agreable to our time pag. 350 ¶ Stephens oration a Sermon 584 Stephanus a good Bishop inuented the apparell 272 ¶ Subiects animated against authoritie 267 ¶ Of subscribing to the communion Booke 709. c. ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 304. 663 ¶ The office of the speaker or mode rator 393 ¶ A sparing restraint 490 ¶ Superioritie among the Apostles pag. 37 Superioritie conuenient among Ministers 388 Caluine alloweth Superioritie 390. 467. ¶ Superstition in garments condemned 277 ¶ The Sword that Christ sendeth is not betweene the faithfull 34 The sword of Discipline necessary pag. 56 ¶ Supremacie of the Queene secretly denied 801 T ¶ The feast of tabernacles obserued since losua 9 ¶ Tēples of Idols cōuerted to churches 274 ¶ T. C. ascribeth his own deuise to the Apostles 674 T. C. maketh greater accompt of the gonernment than of the Gospel pag. 7. 82 T. C. ioyneth with the papistes concerning the Princes authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters 7. 377. 694. c. T. C. alleageth Iosias for Ezechias 10 T. C. alleageth Gregorie for George pag. 447 T. C. charged with vntruth 8. 69. 70 74. 77. 99. 103. 15 158. 163. 166. 186 188. 205 207. 209. 226. 262. 280 332 337. 342 344. 345. 346. 347. 356. 366. 377. 383. 385. 412. 413. 415. 422. 435. 441. 443. 446. 451. 459. 462. 487. 501. 522. 545. 611. 618. 637. 651. 669. 673. 680. 682. 718. 731 8 6. T. C. peruerteth the wordes meaning of the Aunswere 17. 117. 130. T. C. chargeth the Aunswer falsely 24. 25. 28. 29. 30. 31. 35. 36. 89. 92 93. 111. 112. 130. 153. 164. 188. 196. 197 198. 200. 253. 321. 352. 366. 418. 461. 466. 487. 516. 585. 586. 593. 630. 631 651. 704. T. C. contrary to the Admonition 3 88. 530. 605. T. C. bringeth places against himselfe 160. 179. 184. 185. 186. 187. 378. 430 442. 542 697. 698. 759. T. C. reasoneth against himselfe 130 T. C. contrary to himselfe 46. 88. 138. 151. 173. 329. 372. 400. 430. 439. 458 502. 517. 533. 566. 604. 718. 740. 784 T. C. inconstant 614 T. C. desireth that which hee hath sought to hinder 16 The vaine excuses of T. C. why hee hath not set down the Answer the true causes thereof 16 The presumption of the Replier 622 T. C. altereth the state of the coutrouersie 44. 100. 768 T. C. setteth the Fathers by the eares without cause 102 T. C. iustifieth the Answere 120 T. C. accuseth learned men of contra rietie 114 T. C. tendeth to Iudaisme 120. 169. T. C. fetcheth cōmaundements out of the ceremoniall lawe 167. 592. T. C. depraueth learned men when he cannot answere them 146. 191. 369. 377. 402. 410. 415 526. 785. T. C. suppresseth the words against him 184 T. C. pusheth at the Ciuil Magistrate couertly 157. 650 T. C. bendeth his force against a Mo narchie 641 647 T. C. vseth only papistes reasons against the Princes supremacie 694 c. The Repliers arguments strike aswel at the Ciuill Magistrate as at the Ecclesiasticall 765 T. C. speaketh suspiciously of Gouernement 389 T. C. Tripped in that he chargeth others 193 T. C. pretending Scripture bringeth that whiche hath no warrant in scriprure 173. 425 T. C. vseth popish corrupt authorities 223. 247. 442 T. C. seeketh immunitie from lawes pag. 266 VVhy T. C. bēdeth his force against those in authoritie in the church pag. 299 T. C. addeth to the text 520 The Replyer had rather conforme himself to the Iewes than to this Church 730 T. C. forgetteth himself 733 T. C. must eyther dissent from Beza or graunt the controuersie 759 T. C. consesseth the grounde of the controuersies 768 T. C maketh Caluine contrary too himself but vntruly 785 T. C. requireth that of others that he persormeth not himselfe 799 The cause why T. C. ioineth against degrees in Diuinitie 78 T. C. preferreth his iudgemente too Councels 365 T. C. answered by his owne wordes 263. 306. 307. 309. 371. T. C. appealeth from auncient authoritie 547 The Doctrine of the Replier tendeth to Anabaptisme 566. 567. 622. 626. The Replyer neere to
like matters I woulde wishe you to deale sineerely the question that we haue nowe in ▪ The suttle dealing of T. C. in altering y e state of the controuersie hande is VVhether the Scripture hath expressed all externall things touchyng the orders Ceremonyes and gouernment of the Churche I proue it hath not both by the Scripture it selfe and by manyfest examples and by the iudgement of the beste learned you not beyng able to answere and yet desyrous to séeme to saye somewhat to shifte of these examples and authorities dallie at the matter and would make your Reader beléeue that I woulde haue thyngs vsed in the Churche contrarye or not accordyng to the Scriptures from the whych opinion I am as farre of as you and a greate waye farther excepte you reuoke some poyntes of youre Booke You shoulde therefore nowe haue kepte you to the improuyng of thys generall proposition and if hereafter in speakyng of particular matters I had approued any thing against the word of God you might haue spent ▪ your wit and eloquence in confuting of that You saye that thys place of Saynte Augustyne maketh muche agaynst me c. but you are greatly deceyued for Saint Augustyne in that place doth not gyue a certayne rule to the whole Churche but to particular men for it is hys aunswere so Ca ulanus demaundyng of hym Vtrùm liceat sabbato ieiunare A priuate man maye not take vpon hym to violate the particular orders of anye particular Churche much lesse suche orders as be obserued of the whole Churche excepte they be agaynst the Scriptures for bothe in thys and suche other rules of Augustyne that is generally to be obserued whyche the same Augustyne dothe adde in hys 118. Epistle ad Ianuarium quod nequè contra fidem nequè bonos mores iniungitur c. And that thys Augu. ep 〈◊〉 rule In bis rebus de quibus nihil certi c. is gyuen to particular men to dryue them from schismes and contentions in the Churche it is euident by that whyche the same Augustyne writeth in the ende of that Epistle ad Casulanum VVherefore if Idem you wyll willyngly content your selfe wyth my counsell namely whych haue in this cause being by you required and constrayned spoken peraduenture more than enough doe not resiste your Byshoppe herein and followe that whyche he dothe wythout any scruple or doubte Wherefore when Saint Augustyne sayth Mos populi Dei c. hys meanyng is that they are to be obserued as rules to kéepe priuate and particular men in order and in quiet obedience to the Churche Althoughe in deede The Church may not alter any order generally obserued without iust cause the Churche it selfe maye not wythoute iuste cause chaunge suche thyngs as haue beene generally obserued not beyng contra fidem bonos more 's agaynst faythe and good manners as the Lordes daye the daye of the Resurrection Ascention and suche lyke And there maye be iuste causes why thyngs once determyned by the Churche shoulde not be chaunged afterwardes thoughe before the same thyngs were arbitrarye and myghte haue béene otherwyse and in some other manner decréed as the Churche had thoughte moste conuenient If no suche causes be it maye alter anye vse Ceremonye or order whiche it hathe before determyned as Saynt Augustyne hym selfe declareth Epist. 118. ad Ianuarium His Idem enim causis id est propter fidem aut propter mores vel emendari oportet quod perperam fiebat vel institui quod non fiebat Ipsa quippe mutatio consuetudinis etiam quae adiuu t vtilitate nouitate perturbat For these causes that is to saye for faythe and good manners eyther that muste be amended whiche was euyll done or appoynted which was not done for euen that chaunge of Custome whych helpeth throughe profitte doth trouble through noueltie Nowe howe true thys collection of yours is Augustyne prescribeth thys rule to Casulanus that in those thyngs wherein the Scripture hathe determyned no cer aynetie he shoulde followe the Custome of the people of God and the decrees of oure forefathers that is that he shoulde vse hymselfe in those thyngs ▪ that be not agaynste faythe and good manners accordyng to the order of the Churches where he commeth therefore these Customes vpon iuste cause maye not be altered by the Churche let the learned Reader iudge Ap nate man a I sayde may not breake the lawfull and good orders of the Churche thoughe they be not expressed in the worde of God yet maye suche as God hathe gy that authoritie vnto in hys Churche alter and chaunge them as shall be moste 〈◊〉 euen according to this r le of Augustyne bis im 〈◊〉 id est aut propter fidem aut prop ores vel emendari oportet quod perpe m fiebat vel institui quod non f ebat c. before by me recyted We must followe suche cu omes of the Apostles and examples as they haue vsed What examples and customes of the Apostles we must follow and done for vs to followe but suche customes or doyngs of the Apostles as 〈◊〉 eyther peculiar vnto thems lues o 〈◊〉 onely for such 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 in ▪ we are not compelled to followe For as in the Scriptures 〈◊〉 be me preceptes generall some onely rsonall so are there in the sa of examples and orders some that for euer are to be obserued and some for a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that there were suche customes and orders among them shal be declared in seue all places as occasion is minis red Whether we haue receyued or maye retayne customes c. of the Papistes or no is partly to be discussed where I speake of apparell and partly in other places where more particular occasion is offered to speake of the same and therefore I will passe it ouer vntill I come to those places Whyther it were well done to fast in all places according to the custome of the place or no is not the question I looke to Augustynes meanyng and purpose not to euerye one of hys examples howbeit I thinke that there is a greate difference betwixte the manner of fastyng vsed then in the Churche and the manner of fasting vsed nowe in some Churches I thinke that in Augustynes tyme a man myghte haue obserued this rule of fastyng wythout anye offence to God But I doe not thinke that he may doe so in lyke manner nowe bycause it is certayne that in the Churche of Rome there are manye wicked opinions bothe of differences of meates tymes c. and also of merite ioyned to theyr fastyng and therefore are contra fidem bonos more 's and so not wythin the compasse of thys rule of S. Augustine I perceyue no repugnancie at all betwixte Ambrose Augustyne Ignatius and The Replyer setteth the fathers together by the eares without cause Tertullian For the Sabboth daye mentioned by Ambrose and Augustyne is not the Lordes daye whych we call the
this doth that we retaine in the Churche of England at this day and a great deale more Chap. 8. the. 3. Diuision The reasons why the people haue bene secluded from such elections and so ought Why the people haue bene nowe ought to be debarred from the election to be are these 1. Fyrst the meruailous contentions that haue bin in suche kinde of elections by the sinister affections of the people béeyng easily moued to diuision and partes taking vpon euery light occasion Examples wherof there be infinite almoste in euerye Contention about the election of ministers election as it may enidently appeare to euery one that hath but lyghtly runne ouer any Ecclesiastical historie When Damasus was chosen Bishop of Rome there was one Vrsicinus a Deacon Plat. in vita Damasi sette vp against him and the contention was so vehement betwixte them and the rage of the people so intemperate that they fell from voyces to blowes in somuch that there was many slaine euen in the place of election What sedition was there moued in the election of Boniface the second when Platina Dioscorus contended with him for the Bishoprike the people were so deuided that the contention could not be ended but with the death of Dioscorus The lyke brawle was in the elections of Conon Sergius Paulus 1. Constantinus Platina and almost in euery election made in that seate as it is euident in suche stories as especially entreate of the liues of the Bishops of Rome The lyke sturre there hath bin in other places also especially after that the churches were deuided with heresies and sects At Constantinople after the death of Alexander their Byshop there was a maruellous vprore for his successor some desiring to haue Paule a Catholike and some Macedonius an Arrian this contention was so vehement that the whole citie was disturbed and many slaine on both parties yea euen the Emperours officer that was sent to appease it Sozom. lib. 3. cap. 4. 7. The strife that was in the same place after the death of Atticus Philip Prochis and Sisinius striuing for the Byshopricke at one time Socrates testifyeth lib. 7. cap. 26. Sozom. lib. 3. cap. 4. 7. Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 26. Lib. 7. cap. 35. Sozom. lib. 4 cap. 28. Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 9. the same doth he write also to haue bin betwixt Philip and Prochis after the depriuation of Nestorius lib. 7. cap. 35. After Endoxius remoued from Antioch to Constantinople there was in Antioch great strife for a successor as the same Sozo sheweth lib. 4. cap. 28. where he addeth these wordes as in such things it commeth to passe that ther are diuers contentions and seditions betwixt the Cleargie and betwixt the people Socrates lib. 5. cap. 9. declareth the like tumultes to haue bin aboute the election of Flauianus and he addeth atque ita Antiochena ecclesia denuò non propter fidem sed propter Episcopos scinditur And so the Church of Antioch is agayne deuided not for matters of faith but for their Byshops I declared before out of Nazianzene in his funerall oration at the buriall of his father Nazianzene what great trouble and daunger was at Cesaria in his time about the election of their Byshops The same also I noted out of Augustine Epist. 110. it was the cause why August in tom 2. epi. 110. both he and his predecessor in their life times did prouide to themselues successors as it is there manifest Socrates lib. 6. cap. 11. declareth what contention there was at Ephesus about the election Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 11. of their Byshop the people being deuided into sundry factions in somuche that Chrysostome was himselfe enforced to appoint vnto them one Heraclis his Deacon The same Authoure lib. 7. cap. 7. testifyeth the like contention to haue bin in Alexandria Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 7. Euagrius li. 2. cap. 5. whilest some desired Timothie an Archdeacon othersome Cyrill Euagrius li. 2. ca. 5. writeth thus Cum antem bic Proterius c. when this Proterius was placed in the Byshops seate of Alexandria there arose a greate and intollerable tumult among the people which were tossed with diuers sentences for as it often falleth out in such cases some would haue Dioscorus agayne others stucke stoutly to Proterius so that many incurable mischieses were committed For Priscus the Rhetorician writeth that the gouernour of Thebes came the same time to Alexandria and saw the people wholly to set them selues agaynste the magistrates and that when the garison of souldiers woulde haue kepte backe the sedition they beate them backe with stones into the temple whiche was in times past called the temple of Serapis then the people comming thither with speede tooke the temple and burned the souldiers quicke But whēthe Emperour vnderstoode herof he sent thither two thousand new souldiers who hauing a prosperous winde passage arriued the sixt day after at the great citie of Alexandria and so raged against the wiues and daughters of the men of Alexandria that much more mischiefe was now wrought than before To what further inconuenience this intollerable contention came afterwards the same Euagrius writeth cap. 8. where he also describeth the manners and conditions of Euagrius li. 2. cap. 8. the people at large and declareth how easely they are moued to contentions and tumultuous dealing how willingly led by any factious person that pretēdeth liberty c. In the end he sheweth how villanously and cruelly they murdered Proterius appointed to be their Byshop What should I speake of that hurlyburly that was in Millains before the election Theod. lib. 4. cap. 6. Chrysost. lib. 3. de sacerdotio of Ambrose whereof Theodo speaketh lib. 4. cap. 6. I shal desire y e learned reader to peruse Chrysostome in the. 3. booke that he writeth de sacerdotio wher he speaketh of this matter plentifully declareth y e maruelous partialitie the vntollerable cōtentiōs that y e people vsed was y e cause of in such electiōs If I were disposed to heape vp examples I could fill a large volume but these being almost in the best time of the Church vnder Christian Princes manifestly declare what intollerable inconuenience ensueth such elections as are committed to the people especially in these matters 2 My seconde reason is that if suche elections shoulde be committed to the people the iuill Magistrate who hath the chéefe gouernment of the Churche and to whome the especiall care of religion doth apperteine should not be able to procure such reformation nor such consent and agreement in matters of religion as he is when he hath himselfe the placing of Bishops and such as be the chiefe of the Cleargie for the people The election of ministers by the people an impedimēt to the ciuill magistrate in ecclesiasticall matters who are commonly be t to nouelties and to factions and most ready to receyue that doctrine that séemeth to be
And Hierome saith that y e cause why among y e Bishops one was chosen to gouerne y e rest was to remedie schismes Do you not perceiue how these two fathers ioyne in one truthe directly affirme y e self same matter It is true y t time corrupteth therfore much more occasion is offered to appoint gouernment according to y e times least the corruptions preuaile get the vpper hand for this cause Hierome saith that vpon these corruptions of time the Church was constreined to appoint this order Chap. 3. the. 17. Diuision T. C. Pag. 79. Sect. 3. And here I must put M. Doctor in remēbrance how vnfitly he hath dedicated his booke vnto y e church which hath so patched it peeced it of a number of shreddes of the Doctors y t a sentence of A friuolous di from the matter the scripture either truly or fal ly alleaged is as it were a Phenix in this booke If he would haue had y e church beleue him he oughte to haue setled their iudgement grounded their faith vpon the scriptures which are y e only foūdations whervpon y e church may build Now he doth not only not giue thē ground to stand of but he leadeth them into wayes which they cannot follow nor come after him For except it be those which are learned besides haue the meanes abilitie to haue the bookes which are here cited which are y e least smalest portion of the Church how can they know that these things be true which are alleaged as I haue said if they could know yet haue they nothing to stay themselues vpon quiet their conscience in allowing y e which M. Doctor woulde so faine haue them like of Therfore he might haue much more fitly dedicated his booke vnto y e earned and riche which haue furnyshed lybraries Io. Whitgifte M. Doctor hath brought more scriptures thā you haue answered as in the sequele it wil fal out although as I said before in such matters y e scripture hath not expresly Tract 2. determined any certeintie but hath left them to the Church to be appointed according to the circumstances of time place and person as I haue proued both out of the scriptures learned writers intend to do hereafter more particularly whē I come to entreat of your Seigniorie If al other men should do as you haue done that is borrow the sayings of the Doctors out of other mens collections not read y e authors thē selues a few bokes wil serue with very smal charges they mightbe prouided The patches peeces shreds of Doctors that be in my boke are taken out of the Doctors thēselues they be whole sentences faithfully alledged But the shreds of doctors that your boke is stuffed with you haue borrowed of other you haue falsifyed thē cut them off by the half you haue fathered vpon them that which is not to be founde in them and the words of late writers you haue set downe vnder the name of ancient fathers and the scriptures you haue falsely alleaged and vntruely translated I would not gladly haue burst out into this accusation at this time being from the matter but that you haue vrged me therevnto Chap. 3. the. 18. Diuision T. C. Page 79. Sect. 4. 5. 6. Hierome saith y e at the first a Bishop an elder which you call a priest were all one but afterward through factions schismes it was decreed y t one should rule ouer y e rest Now I say against this order that y e Bishop should beare rule ouer all y e which our sauiour Christ saith vnto y e Phariseis from y e beginning it was not so therfore I require that y e first order may stand which was Contr Prax. that a Bishop elder were all one And if you place so great authoritie against the institution of God in a mortall man heare what Tertullian saith vnto you That is true whatsoeuer is first and that is false whatsoeuer is latter Hierome you confesse y t this was first that y e Bishop was all one with y e elder first also by y e Tertullians meaning falsified word of God thē I conclude y t that is true You both do likewise confesse y t it came after that one bare rule ouer the rest then I conclude y e that is false for all that is false that is latter Furthermore Hierome in the same place of Titus saith after this sort As y e elders know themselues to be subiect by a custome of the Churche vnto him that is set ouer them so the Byshops must knowe that they are greater than the elders rather by custome than by any truth of the instatution of the Lord and so they ought to gouerne the Church in common Io. Whitgifte It followeth after in my answere to the Admonition that there was superioritie among the ministers of the word e ē in the Apostles time which I 〈◊〉 by the riptures other testimonies it is also 〈◊〉 that great factions schi mes did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church euē in the Apostles time therfore most like these that Icrome sp keth of to haue bin thē determined The which to be true his words ad 〈◊〉 touching y e church of Alexādria doth euidently declare for he saith y t this order was kept 〈◊〉 frō S. Marke But admit these were not true which you wil neuer be able to proue yet your argument is of no force the place of Tertullian is not vnderstanded for Tertullian in that boke after he hath repeated the rule of faith which is to beleeue in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ one God and in his sonne Iesus Ch ist c. he saith that this rule hath come from the beginning of the Gospell euen before all former heretikes muche more before 〈◊〉 that was but yesterdaye as well the posteritie of all heretikes as the verye noueltie of 〈◊〉 which was of late will proue VVhereby iudgement may hereof be indifferently gyuen against all heresies that that is true whatsoeuer is first that count rfeit whatsoeuer is last Wherby it is e ident that Tertullians rule is to be vnderstanded in matters of saluation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to be 〈◊〉 s ode 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gin veland of faith not in matters of ceremonies kinds of gouernment which thing he himselfe in plaine words declareth in his booke de virginibus velandis where in lyke maner after he hath recited this rule of faith he addeth this lawe of aith remaining other things of discipline conuersation admit newnesse of correction the grace of God working and going forward euen to the end So that Tertullian thinketh that matters of ceremonies and discipline may be altered y e rule of faith remaining 〈◊〉 notwithstanding his former rule If you will not haue this to be the meaning of Tertulliā then will I reason thus The reason of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
and from all other auncient authoritie of learned menne for you knowe full well your lacke of abilitie to maynteyne this and other your opinions by the testimonies of auncient wryters nay you can not but confesse that the olde learned Fathers are vtterly agaynst you which is the cause why you appeale from them but it is an vnlearned shirt Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag â–ª 122. Sect. 1. And yet also I haue to say that the obseruation of those feastes firste of all was much better than of later tymes For Socrates confesting that neyther our Sauiour Christe nor the Apostles li. 5. ca. 22. did decree or institute any holydayes or laye any yoke of bondage vpon the neckes of those which came to the preaching addeth further that they did vse firste to obserue the holydayes by custome and (*) Socrates wordes vntruly reported that as euery man was disposed at home which thing if it had remayned in that freedome that it was done by custome and not by commaundement at the will of euery one and not by constraynt it had bene much better than it is now and had not drawne such daungers vpon the posteritie as did after ensue and we haue the experience of Io. Whitgifte Surely they were neuer better nor more pure from al supersticion and other errours than they be nowe in this Churche and therefore in that respecte there is no cause to complaine You do not truely reporte Socrates words nor yet his meaning for he doth not say Socrat. Lib. Cap â–ª 22. that euery man at home kepte those dayes as he was disposed but thus he sayth VVherefore neyther the Apostle nor the Gospell do at any tyme laye a yoke of bondage vpon them whiche come vnto the preachyng of the Gospell but menne themselues euery one in theyr countrie according as they thought good celebrated the feast of Easter and other holydayes of custome for the intermission of theyr laboures and remembrance of the healthfull passion his meaning is not that euery priuate man in his owne house kepte Easter and the other feastes as him lysted but that euery Churche appoynted such an order and tyme for the same as it thought conuenient and that this is his meaning that whiche followeth in that Chapter and expresseth his owne opinion of this mater dothe euidently declare His woordes be these Surely I am of this opinion that as many other thinges in diuerse places haue bene brought in of custome so the feaste of Easter had a priuate or peculiar obseruation with euery particular people of custome bycause none of the Apostles as I haue sayde did make any lawe hereof c. For his whole drifte is to proue that the feast of Easter concerning the daye and tyme was diuersly obserued in diuers Churches and Countries but he neyther can proue nor goeth aboute to proue that there was any Churche wherein it was not obserued And I haue before declared that the feast of Easter was obserued by the Apostles and sithence that tyme continued Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 177. Sect. 1. Pag. 178. Sect. 1. c. Other reformed Churches also haue dayes ascribed to Sainets Bullinger aswell as we as it may appeare by these wordes of Bullinger writing Obseruing of holydayes in other reformed churches vpon the. 14. to the Rom. In the auncient vvriters as Eusebius and Augustine thou mayste finde certayne memorials appoynted to certayne holy menne but after an other manner not muche differing from oures vvhich vve as yet reteyne in our Churche of Tigurie for vvee celebrate the natiuitie of Christe his Circumcision Resurrection and Ascention the comming of the holy Ghost the feastes also of the virgin Mary Iohn Baptiste Magdalene Stephen and the other Apostles yet not condemning those vvhich obserue none but onely the Sabboth daye For perusing olde Monumentes vve finde that this hath alvvayes bene left free to the Churches that euery one should follow that in these things that should be most best and conuenient M. Bucer in his Epistle to master Alasco speaking of holydayes Bucer sayeth That in the Scriptures there is no expresse commaundement of them it is gathered notvvithstanding sayeth he from the example of the olde people that they are profitable for vs to the encrease of godlinesse vvhich thing also experience proueth To be shorte Illyricus writing vpon the fourth to the Galat. maketh Obseruing of dayes considered foure wayes this diuision of obseruing dayes and times The first is naturall as of somer spryng time winter c. tyme of planting tyme of sovvyng time of reaping c. 1 The second is ciuill 2 The third Ecclesiasticall as the Sabboth daye and other dayes vvherein 3 is celebrated the memorie of the chiefe histories or actes of Christe vvhiche be profitable for the instruction of the simple that they may the better remember vvhen the Lorde vvas borne vvhen he suffred vvhen he ascended vp into heauen and be further taught in the same The fourth superstitious vvhen we put a necessitie vvorshipping merite 4 or rightuousnesse in the obseruing of tyme and this kinde of obseruing dayes and tymes is onely forbidden in this place Thus you see by the iudgementes of all these learned menne that dayes ascrybed vnto Sainctes is no suche matter as ought to make menne separate themselues from the Churche and absteyne from allowing by subscription so worthie and godly a booke as the booke of common prayer is much lesse to make a Schisme in the Churche for the same T. C. Pag. 122. Sect. 2. 3. As touching M. Bucers M. Bullingers and Illyricus allowance of them if they meane such a celebration of them as that in those dayes the people may be assembled and those partes of the Scriptures which concerne them whose remembraunce is solemnised redde expounded and yet men not debarred after from their dayly workes it is so much the lesse matter if otherwise that good leaue they giue the Churches to dissent from them in that poynte I do take it graunted vnto me being by the grace of God one of the Churche Although as touching M. Bullinger it is to be obserued since the time that he wrote that vpon the Romanes there are aboute 35. yeares sithence which time although he holde still that the feastes kept vnto the Lorde as of the Natiuitie Easter and Pentecoste dedicated vnto the Lord may be kept yet he demeth flatly that it is lawfull to keepe holy the dayes of the Apostles as Confessio Ecclesiae Tigur alianim Eccles cap. 24. it appeareth in the confession of the Tiguryne Church ioyned with others Io. Whitgifte How perfect an Answere this is to these learned mennes authorities lette the learned Reader iudge You are not a Churche but a member of the Churche and therefore seing the matter is such as the Churche may take an order in you ought to submitte your selfe to the determination of that Churche
Sunday whiche you haue denied to be his opinion in the former two places I haue tolde you what he meaneth by discipline and order or pollicie whereby he giueth to vnderstande nothing lesse than that whiche you woulde conclude beyng but your owne deuise to serue for a poore shifte at a néede And although the matter is not greate whether they labour or no yet the lawe of the Prince and the order of the Churche is to be obserued And so it appeareth that there is no reasonable cause as yet proued why you ought not to subscribe to the seruice Booke Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 82. Sect. 1. 2. In the ende you adde patched if not altogither yet the greatest peece out of the Popes Portuis To this I answere briefely it maketh no matter of whome it was inuented in what Booke it is conteyned so that it be good and profitable and consonant to Gods worde Well sayeth Ambrose Omne verum à quocunque dicitur à spiritu Sancto est All truth of vvhome soeuer it is spoken is of the holy ghost T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 6. Nowe whereas M. Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter wither these thinges be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet beyng not necessarie and abused horribly by the Papists other beyng as good and better than they ought not to remayne in the churche Io. Whitgifte Your reasons be not sufficient to proue them not to be good the abuse hath not bene suche but that it beyng remoued the thing may still remayne as profitable and The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iudgement conuenient the iudgement of the Churche in determining what is best and moste fittest in matters of order pollicie and gouernment not beyng agaynst the worde of God is to be preferred before any priuate mans opinion and imagination Chap. 2. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 10. And as for Ambrose saying all truth of whome soeuer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste if I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaunde of him which careth not of whome he haue Mark 1. the truth so he haue it what our Sauiour Christe ment to refuse the testimonie of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimonie ▪ that he was the Sonne of God and the holy one And what S. Paule ment to be angrie and to take it so grieuously that the Pithonisse sayde he and his companion Act. 16. were the seruantes of the highe God which preached vnto them the way of saluation Here ▪ was truth and yet reiected and I would knowe whether M. Doctor would saye that these spake by the spirite of God Thus whilest without all iudgement he snatcheth here a sentence and there another out of the Doctoures and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose choose out the brosse and leaue the siluer within a while he will make no great difference not onely betwene the Prophetes and Apostles and prophane wryters as Aristotle and Plato but not betwene them and those which speake not by the conduyte and leading of the holy ghoste but by the violent thrusting of the wicked spirite Io. Whitgifte Christe liked not the truth beyng vttered of the Diuell bycause he spake it of an euill meaning but he liked very well the same testimonie of truth afterwardes vttered by Peter sincerely Math. 16. Mar. 8. Neyther did he mislike the woordes bycause they were abused by the Diuell before But I will leaue Diuels and speake of men of whome I thinke Ambrose mente although the truth is truthe of whome soeuer it is vttered but to Answere for Ambrose he hath sayde nothing in that sentence which may not be iustified M. Caluine vpon these woordes 1. Corinth 12. And no man can saye that Iesus is the Caluine Lorde but by the holy Ghost sayeth thus It may be demaunded whether the wicked haue the Spirite of God seyng they sometime testifie playnely and well of Christe I answere that there is no doubte but that they haue so much as concerneth that effect but it is an other thing to haue the gifte of regeneration than to haue the gifte of bare vnderstanding wherewith Iudas was indued when he preached the Gospell M. Martyr also vpon the same woordes after he hath recited the opinions of other P. Martyr maketh this resolution But when I weygh this matter with my selfe I perceyue that the Apostle here dothe speake not of the Spirite whiche doth regenerate or of that grace which iustifieth but of the giftes which are freely giuen whiche may happen as well to the good as to the euill Therefore I thinke that Paule spake simply that he might declare that by what meanes soeuer we speake well of Christe it is of the holy Ghost of whome Omne verum à spiritu sancto est commeth all truthe as all vntruth proceedeth of the Deuill who is the father of lyes You sée therefore that Ambrose is not of this iudgement alone and that his saying is verie true The Doctoures that I haue vsed in this cause be Ierome and Augustine whiche be not the worst but comparable with the best I haue rehearsed out of them whole sentences and perfite the which you are not able to answere the rest of your opprobrious woordes wherewith you conclude this question of holy dayes I leaue for other to consider of as notes of your spirite And to the intent that the Reader may vnderstande that it was not for naught that you set not downe my Booke togither with your Replie I will here set downe such portions of my booke touching this matter as you haue not answered vnto but closely passed ouer not thinking that any man should haue espied your lacke of abilitie to answere them Chap. 2. the. 10. Diuision Admonition They should first proue that holy dayes ascribed to Sayncts prescript seruices for them c. are agreeable to the written worde of the Almightie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 153. Sect. 4. Pag. 154. Sect. 1. Holy dayes ascribed to Sainctes wherein not the Sainctes but God is honoured and the people edified by reading and hearing suche stories and places of Scripture as perteyne to the martyrdome calling ▪ and function of such Sainctes or any other thing mentioned of them in Scripture must needes be according to Gods worde For to honor God to worship him to be edified by the stories and examples of Sainctes out of the Scripture cannot be but consonant to the Scripture The prescript secuice for them is all taken out of Gods worde and not one peece thereof but it is moste consonant vnto the same If ther be any that is repugnant set it down that we may vnderstande it I tolde you before that touching the dayes and times and other Ceremonies the churche hath authoritie to determine what is most cōuenient
his appoyntment himselfe sitting as moderator and this was in a matter of fayth But be it as you say though I can finde no suche thing in the firste Action of that Councell dothe it followe that bycause Emperours cōfirmed ordinaunces that were made in Synodes and Councelles therefore they haue no authoritie to make Ecclesiasticall lawes surely I vnderstande not howe you can make any suche conclusion for as I sayde before it is a poynt of greate wisedome and singular care to prouide that weightie matters in controuersie be determined with great deliberation and aduise of suche as be most skilfull in them But this can be no argument to proue that Ciuill Magistrates may make no orders in the Churche or Ecclesiasticall Lawes for euen those orders and lawes whiche were made in suche Councels were made by the authoritie of the Emperour as dothe very well appeare in the same Councels for when the matters were concluded in the Councell of Chalcedon the Bishops brust out into these voyces It is a true and a right iudgement long lyfe to the Senate many Conc. Chalced ▪ Euagr lib. 2. cap. 4. yeares to the Emperour Whereby it appeareth that the chiefe authoritie in suche Councels was giuen to the Emperour and that he was esteemed as the chiefe iudge which appeareth also at large in the seconde booke of Euagrius The. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 154. Sect. 2. The practise of this he mighte haue also moste playnely seene in Ambrose who woulde by 5. Lib. epist. 2. no meanes suffer that the causes of the Churches should be debated in the Princes consistorie or Another reason of the Papists agaynst the authoritie of the ciuil magistrate courte but would haue them handled in the Churche by those that had the gouernment of the Churche and therefore excuseth himselfe to the Emperour Ualentiman for that beyng conuented to answere of the church matters vnto the ciuill courte he came not Io. Whitgifte This is an other of M. Hardinges reasons agaynst the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall matters and he vsed it against the Apologie but the answere made to the same in the defense of the Apologie by that reuerende Father 6. Parte 14. Chap. 5. Diuision the Bishop of Sarisburie is learned and true the summe whereof is this The Emperour Ualentinian at that tyme when Ambrose wrote this Epistle vnto him was very yong he was not yet baptized he knewe not the principles of Christes Why Ambrose refused to come at the Emperours commaundement Religion he was an Arian Heretike he woulde haue thruste out the Christians and placed Heretikes in their Churches he thought it was lawfull for him to do what him listed c. For this cause Ambrose refused him to be his iudge so that he did not mislike his authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall but onely his wilfull ignorance and his tyrannie for that he knewe his iudgement was corrupted and not indifferent And if you had marked the beginning of his Epistle you might haue perceyued that he alleageth for his chiefe defense and excuse for not appearing the decrée of Theodosius the Father of Ualentinian so that in not comming or appearing at the Emperours summon he did but challenge the priuiledge graunted before of godly Emperours vnto the Cleargie And it is euident that the learned and auncient Fathers haue committed the The auncient Fathers haue committed the deciding of controuersies to Emperours deciding of matters of controuersie to Emperours as it appeareth in Athanasius his seconde Apologie where he committing himselfe and his cause to the Emperour sayeth thus VVe require that the Emperours moste godly and most religious Maiestie may haue the hearyng of the same matter before whome we may open both our churches right and also our owne for we hope that his godlinesse vnderstanding our reasons will Athanasius Apol. 2. neuer condemne vs. Likewise S. Augustine Contra Epist Parme. Lib. 1. speakyng to the Donatistes August contra epist. Parmen lib. 1. sayeth Is it not lawfull for the Emperour or his deputie to giue sentence in a matter of religion wherefore then went your Ambassadoures to the Emperour why made they him iudge of their cause Sozomene Lib. 4. Cap. 16. sayeth that the Emperour commaunded that tenne Bishops Sozom. lib. 4. 16. of the East and ten of the VVeste chosen by the Councell shoulde repayre to his courte and open to him the decrees of the Councell that he might not only consider whether they were agreed according to the Scriptures but that he might further determine and conclude what were best to be done Socrates Lib. 5. Cap. 10. sayeth that Theodosius the Emperour for the appeasing Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 10. of contention cōmaunded an assemblie of Bishops best learned to appeare before him and eche parte to write a confession of their faith and religion the which being done at a day appointed they came to the Courte and deliuered vp their writinges to the Emperour who after earnest praiers made perusing the writings that were deliuered rent in pieces the confessions made by the Arians and Eunomians and allowed onely and receyued the confession of the Catholikes The practise therefore of the authoritie of Princes in Ecclesiasticall matters euen in determining and iudging controuersies in Religion you might haue learned by these examples in Ambrose tyme. The. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 154. Sect. vlt. And by whome can the matters and orders of the Churche be better ordeyned than by the ministers of the Churche And if that be a good reason of M. Doctor in the fortie and seuenth Page that the Bishops ought therefore to ordeyne ministers bycause they are best able to iudge An other argu ment of the Papistes to the same purpose of the learning and abilitie of those which are the fittest it is also as good reason that therefore the ministers and gouernours of the Churche should appoynt and decree of suche ceremonies and orders as perteyne to the churche for bycause it is to be supposed that they can beste iudge of those matters bestowing their studies that wayes and further best vnderstanding the state of the church aboute the which they are wholly occupied Io. Whitgifte This also is a reason of M. Hardinges in the same cause but it onely preueth that it is moste conuenient and necessarie that Bishops and ministers of the Church The debating and deciding of matters in religion by bishops doth not derogate from the princes authoritie whyle they he learned and godly may haue the debating and deciding of matters in religion neyther dothe this derogate any thing from the authoritie of the Prince in the same causes we sée that matters in lawe are determined by iudges lawyers so be other ciuill matters by wise and prudent officers in like manner and yet is not the authoritie of the Prince thereby abridged but what if all the ministers of the Churche or moste of them be corrupt and vngodly