c. In deede sayth he the bodie of Marie was holye but God it was not The Virgin was a Virgin in deede and honorable but she was not giuen to vs to be worshipped but hir selfe worshipped him that was borne of hir who came to hir from heauen out of his fathers bosome And for this cause dothe the Gospell arme vs telling that whiche the Lorde spake woman what haue I to do with thee mine houre is not yet come least any should thinke the holy virgin to be more excellent he calleth hir woman as it were prophecying suche thinges as by reason of sectes shoulde come to passe on the earth Least that any bodye maruelling too muche at the holy Virgin slippe into this heresie and these dotages For all the handling of thys heresie is but a mockerie and as a man maye saye an olde wyues tale For what Scripture hathe euer declared whiche of the Prophetes commaunded man to be worshipped muche lesse a woman shee is in deede an excellent vessell but a woman and nothing chaunged from hir nature Shee is honorable in honoure bothe in vnderstanding and sense euen as are the bodies of the Sainctes And if to hir glorifying I should haue sayde somewhat more euen as Helias a virgin from his mother and so still remayning was translated and sawe not deathe euen as Iohn that leaned on the Lordes breast whome Iesus loued euen as sainct Thecla Yea Marie is yet more honorable for the dispensation of the mysterie wherewith shee was made woorthie But neither Helias is to be worshipped althoughe he be yet alyue neither is Iohn to be worshipped althoughe by his prayers he obtayned his wonderfull sleepe or rather hee obtayned grace of God Nor yet Thecla neyther any Saynct is worshipped For the auncient errour shall not master vs that leauing the lyuing God wee shoulde worshippe those thinges that are made of hym For they worshipped and honoured the Creature more than the Creator and became fooles If he wyll not haue Angels to be adored howe muche more will he not haue hir whiche was engendred of Anne which was giuen to Anne of Ioachim which by their prayers and all their diligence according to the promise to hir father and mother was giuen yet was she not engendred beyonde the nature of men but as all are of the seede of a man and the wombe of a woman c. For it is vnpossible for any to bee engendred on earth beyonde the nature of man Only it was sitting for him nature gaue place to him alone he as the work master and hauing powre of the matter fourmed him self of the Virgin as it were of the earth VVho beeing God the word discended froÌ„ heauen â–ª and put on flesh of the Virgin Mary but not that the Virgin shoulde be worshipped not that he would make hir a God nor that we should offer in the name of hir c. he suffred hir not to giue baptisme nor to blesse the disciples he bad hir not rule in the earthe but onely that she shoulde haue hir sanctification and bee made worthy of his kingdome From wheÌ„ce then commeth agayne to vs the round Dragon that wrappeth him self on a heape fro wheÌ„ce are these Councels renewed for any cause Let Mary be had in honor let be worshipped the father the sonne and the holy ghost let no man worship Mary I say not a woman no not a man This mysterie is due to God the Angels receiue not suche glorifying Let the thinges euill written he rased cleane oute of the hearte of those that are deceyued let the luste of the tree be taken out of their eyes let it tourne to the Lorde that framed it let Eue vvith Adam feare God that shee maye vvorshippe him onely least shee be ledde by the Serpentes voyce But let hir abyde stedfast in Gods commaundement eate not of the tree Let no body eate of the errour that is for sainct Mary For thoughe the tree bee fayre yet it is not to be eaten althoughe Mary bee moste fayre and holy and honorable yet is she not to be adored But these Arabicke women worshipping Mary do renue again the mixture to Fortune and prepare a table to the Diuell not to God as it is written they are fedde with the meat of wickednesse And agayne And their women do boult flowre and their children gather stickes to make cakes kneaded with oyle to the Q. of heaueÌ„ Let suche women be put to silence by Hieremie and let them not trouble the worlde let them not saye wee honour the queene of heauen c. Thus sayth Epiphanius and muche more neither for hir only though chiefly for hir but in generall for all the Saintes Non conuenit colere sanctos c. It is not mete to woorshippe the Sainctes beyonde comelynesse but it is meete to honour the Lorde of them let the errour therfore ceasse of those that be seduced Nowe if ye say vnto me all this is spoken againste the worship of offring to hir and sacrifising to hir not for inuocation of hir first this shift is false M. Sta. for Inuocation in déede is the chiefest worship that we can giue not of the lips so much as of the heart farre aboue any outwarde sacrifice of the bodie and therefore to be muche more giuen to God alone as S. Aug. reasoneth Sicut orantes c. Euen as when wee praye and prayse wee directe signifying vowes vnto God when we offer the verie thinges in our heart the whiche we signifie so sacrifycing we know that no visible sacrifice ought to be offred to any other than to him to whom we our selues ought to be an inuisible sacrifice As therfore no bodily sacrifice may be directed to any but to God so knew Epiphanius that all spirituall sacrifice is onely due to god And therefore he so little ascribeth it to hir or any other that bothe in the beginning of his treaiise and in the ende he maketh his inuocations onely to god Saying in the beginning Nunc autem clarè c. But let vs now clearely speake of the heresie it selfe and inuocating God as we will adioyne confutation agaynst it c. And in the ende thereof Ad vnam illam c. Let vs proceede to that onely heresie which is yet vntouched inuocating God that he would helpe vs c. Thus ye sée to whome he ascribeth inuocation not to hir of whom he writeth or to any other saincte but alonely to god This shifte fayleth therefore in saying he writeth onely agaynst offring and sacrificing to hir But setting all this aside haue not you I beséeche you offred and sacrificed to hir I pray you turne back agayne to those your prayers whiche I haue cited that playnely confesse the facts and glorie therein Neither coulde they tell by what meanes they shoulde worshippe hir inoughe But if it yrke ye to turne to that whiche was so yrkesome to reade before I will shâ—…we you yet once more so playne a
commendations these vertues so highly coÌ„mended are both a goodly and godly president for all Princes to set before them Thus much therefore to the former winde of your counterblast Now to the later which after all these long discourses draweth somewhat néerer to the matter in admitting the authour Nicephorus his testimonies and the Emperours doings and answering to the Bishops allegations thereon The effect whereof is to improue all that is alleaged as insufficient to inferre this supremacie And it is quartred into foure partes Firste prâ—…supposing this Prince to be Andronicus all 〈◊〉 doing about to be the reuoking of Michâ—…els yelding to the Pope at the Councell at Lions he 〈◊〉 to proue that not 〈◊〉 but the Priestes though wicked had the chiefe â—…uperioritie Secondly he 〈◊〉 against the gathering and sorting of the Bishops 〈◊〉 Thirdly he entreth into the inualiditie of the allegacions And fourthly here vpon he maketh his triumph and 〈◊〉 thanks for the victorie In the first parcell sayeth M. Stapleton But now M. Horne what if these hereticall doyngs do nothing releeue your cause nor necessarily induce the chiefe superioritie in all causes and perchaunce in no cause Ecclesiasticall concerning the finall discussing and determination of the same verily without any perchaunce it is most plainly and certainely true it doth not For euen in this Schismaticall councell and hereticall fynagog the Bishops played the chiefe parte and they gaue the finall though a wrong and a wicked iudgement VVho also shewed their superioritie though vngodly vppon this mans Father in that they would not suffer him to be enterred Princelike them selues much more worthy to haue bene cast after their decease to the Dogges and Rauens vppon â—… durtie doonghill What those Priests were worthie we haue your worthie iudgement M. Stapleton whereby we perceiue your Priests can erre although they be Massemongers and by your former sayings Reuerent worshippers of Images too But all will not helpe they are adiudged to be cast on a dâ—…rtje doonghill to be deuoured of Dogges and Raues bicause they would not suffer â–ª Michael Paleologus their Emperour who notwithstanding intruded him selfe by violence to be enterred Prince like I pray you M. Stap. be an vpright iudge What then are those Priests much more worthy that would not suffer their liuing Princes to vse their princely authoritie what are those Popes more worthie â–ª that haue not onely not suffred their predecessours to be enâ—…orted Pope like but haue pulled them out of the ground againe and hacked and mangled them What are those prelates worthie that haue caused the Priestes and the people to renounce their obedience to their sworne Princes I thinke ye will not say these should be â–ª call out on durtie doonghils and yet their faulte is as much as the other it is to be feared least they shal be cast out into vtter darkenesse â–ª But ye do a little to much charge the Gréeke Priestes with the whole burden of this crime It was not onely they as Uolaterane saith but it was the whole nation as Baptist Egnatius writeth as is also noted in Laugus his margine Ex qua tuntam â—…nuidiam â–ª c. VVherevppon he gotte so great enuie of the Greeke notion that neither they performed the obsequies of the dead also denied him the place of his Sepulchre But you applie it onely vnto the Priestes that their superioritie might the more appeare For which purpose you direct all your tale to sette foorth their superioritie euen in such as ye call wicked and hereticall doings whereas the Princes claime is not for any such superioritie in wicked doings but onely in Godly and Christian causes Ye driue all the matter to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghosts proceeding and to Andronicus cealing therein against the dealing of his Father In 〈◊〉 thus do the last editions of Nicephorus Printed at Paris 1562. and 1566. whether truely or no is doubtfull to say referre al to Andronicus and euer in the place of Emaâ—…el put Andronicus and for driâ—…ing away of the Turkes put in the anulling of the doings at Lions Councell Which sentence soeuer be the truer either the former which the Bishop followed or the later which you follow yet caÌ„ you not go so round away with the matter but that euen Michael which yéelded to the Pope mangre all his Priestes and made them perforce while he liued to acknowledge the Pope shewed therein a superioritie â—…uer them which I thinke ye will not call a tiranâ—…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gaue it ouer to the Pope And his sonne in doing the contrarie euen in the Councell ye mention sheweth also a supreme dealing therein And that supreme dealing that you most stiffly denie to Princes to wâ—…te the calling of Councels the Patriarch did it not but the Prince 〈◊〉 as your selfe haâ—… confessed before that he after his Fathers death suâ—…moned a Councell of the Grecians And so sayeth Langus in the Margine of the Preface Imperatoriâ—… istius ductu c. By the guydance of this Emperour in the Councell the Easterne Bishops contrarie to the Westerne decreed that the holy Ghost proceeded onely from the Father But not long after by his Nephewe Iohn Paleologus being Emperour in the Synode at Florence holden in the yeere of the Lorde 1439. the Grecians accorded to the determination of the Latines in so much that they professed the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne when they were perswaded that the Latines beleeued God the Father to be the onely cause of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and that they accursed the being of twoo beginnings or two causes in the consubstantiall Trinitie Which sentâ—…nce as it sheweth the 〈◊〉 to be called by the 〈◊〉 â–ª so it sheweth the cause of the Gréekes diâ—…ision 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 in this 〈◊〉 aboute which here and in your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…e make so much a do to haue bene rather of misunderstanding the one of the other than any such 〈◊〉 â–ª as ye here â—…o often charge them â—…aunder Niâ—…phorus reâ—…ite this Prince and afterwardes 〈◊〉 â—…o vs also And withall it sheweth that this controuâ—…rsie was not so much tho matter betweene them as was the reâ—…enting vnto the Popes obedience which the Greeke Church could neuer abide and to say the sooth they of all other had chiefe cause â–ª for the Pope was the chiefe ruine 〈◊〉 their Empirâ—… But to returne to my purpose In this Councell the Prince hath this point of supremacâ—…e that he sumâ—…oned and guided it â–ª which M â–ª Stapleton espying dareth not fully affirme â–ª that thiâ—… doing maketh â—…atly againste the Princes supremacie but he cometh fâ—…intly in with what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 And what if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shalt we 〈◊〉 haue larkes â–ª what 〈◊〉 â—…id â–ª phie on Deuill with his shifting if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou be the 〈◊〉 of God. And what if it do not necessarily enduce the chiefe supeâ—… in all causes
fourth time dixit Dominus and Samuelem the Lorde sayde or as ye call it pronounced vnto Samuell c. confirming all that he had pronounced before by the former Prophet As for Samuell béeing straightly charged by Hely the hye Priest not by the way of prophecie pronounced those words of the Lords to him or to any other but onely shewed him al that God had sayde Indicauit ei vniuersos sermones non abscondit ab eo And Samuell tolde him euery whit of the â—…ayings and hidde it not from him And therefore where ye say he onely executed the sentence pronounced before by Samuell Gods minister as though God had prophecied it by the mouth of Samuell as he did in the chapter before by an other and as ye say in your Counterblast published before by Samuell the Leuite the texte mentioning neither the pronouncing nor publishing of this sentence by Samuell at all but onely the fore sayde maner of priuate telling to Hely what he heard God pronounce it is but an vntruthe in your selfe to tell your tale so to your aduauntage that it might séeme that Salomon was but the executour of some solemne sentence published and pronounced before by Samuell commaunding or mouing king Salomon to obey that senteÌ„ce and so to depose Abiathar And héere appeares also your other vntruthe that Salomon shoulde doe it to this ende and intent to fulfill this prophecie Which in déede he fulfilled in the dooing but it was not fulfilled by him alone king Saule had fulfilled a greate parte of it before in causing to be killed wickedly the whole familie of Hely excepte onely this Abiathar that escaped by flighte Whiche cruell facte of Saule proceeding onely of méere malice agaynst Dauid and furder agaynst them as Dauids abettours fautours was the onely cause of this tyrannie and not to fulfil Gods prophecie Neither coulde he pretende it and yet he fulfilled the same when he fulfilled his wicked luste But Salomon that deposed Abiathar the onely remaynder of Helies stocke and his sonnes after him had good and righte cause to depriue him and all his posteritie of thys dignitie bicause he was as your selfe confesse a traytour to him For which cause Salomon deposed him and layde this cause to his charge onely not that he must execute Gods sentence of punishing his fathers offence and yet in doing the one he perfourmed the other also Bothe of these Princes were executours of Gods sentence that wrought by his secrete Iustice what soeuer he purposed yea as well by the euill deede of Saule as by the righteous déede of Salomon And things foretolde in the scripture came not to passe bicause they were foretold but bicause they should come to passe therfore they were foretold God did foretell what he would do to that house yet he named not by whom so that none could pretend to do it bicause God had foretold it but when God had done it by suche instruments as he purposed good or bad then the writers of the scripture by the instruction of the holy ghost bicause of the certenty of Gods prophecie doe say it was done to fulfill suche or suche a thing So when Herod had killed the innocents sayth S. Mathew tunc adimpletuÌ„ est theÌ„ was fulfilled that which was spoken by the Prophet Ieremie of which kinde of spéeche as well in factes of the godly as the vngodly we haue many ensamples Though therefore the wordes of the Scripture be Eiccit ergo Salomon Abiathar vt non esset sacerdos domini vt impleretur seâ—…mo Domini quem locutus est super domum Heli in Silo And so Salomon cast out Abiathar from being the priest of the Lorde that the Lordes wordes might be fulfilled which he spake vpon the house of Hely in Silo yet doe not these wordes import that Salomon did it of this purpose to fulfill that prophecie as you woulde make the reader to vnderstande by youre guylefull translation saying And so Salomon put out Abiathar c. to fulfil the words of the Lord as though the cause why he did it was that when the cause was Abiathars treason and therfore he tolde him before he was â—…ilius mortis the childe of death id est sayth Lyra morte dignus pro conspiratione coÌ„trame â—…rdinationem Dei patris mei that is to say Thou art worthie to suffer death for thy conspirâ—…cie against me and the ordinance of God and of my father Here is the verie cause why Salomon deposed him although also he fulfilled therein Gods secret iustice whiche the holie writer considering wrote vt adimpleretur that the Lordes woordes might be fulfilled c. And thus whyle yée would charge the Bishop with one lye euen your self discharge him and you committe a couple for failing to menâ—… the matter withall Neyther the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued in any thing pertayning to their office from that the king commaunded them The 43. vntruhe those woordes are not in the Scripture alleaged These wordes make a heynous quarell at which wordes also in his Counterblast he stormeth saying He hath swarued lewdly from the text added wordes more than is exprest and that with suche homely shiftes an yll cause must be furthered And when all is done it is but a little parenthesis placed in the middle of the text by the way of explication tâ—… declare wherein the king commâ—…ded them and they obeyed in their offices nexte before set out howe the king ordeyned according to the disposition of Dauid his father the offices of the Priests in their ministeries and the Leuites in their orders to prayse God and minister before the Priests according to the custome of euery day and the porters in their diuisions porte by porte for so had Dauid a man of God commaunded and neither the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued from any thing that the king commaunded Thus lyeth the texte worde for worde Wherein the Bishop placing this parenthesis â–ª what did he that any most exacte interpreter might not do M Stap. héere escrieth it for so horrible a cryme yea and an vntruthe of his bedroll withall wheraâ—… first there is no vntruthe at all in the parenthesis and himselfe in the same chapter confesseth for Princes a great deale more that they may not onely commaunde the Priests to do those things that appertayne to their office but cause them to do them which is a manyfest proofe of the Princes supreme authoritie 〈◊〉 them so that vntruthe in this parenthesis was there none Nor any other faulte at all sauing that M. Stapleton was frowardly disposed to picke a quarell at the forme and print of the letter not at the matter as though those wordes were pretended to be the wordes of the texte wherein he himselfe though there were some negligence in the printing dothe yet excuse the Bishop of this faulte of any suche addition of wordes For twice in his Counterblast mentioning those
to content you Io. Langus in his Preface Dedicatorie to Ferdinandus hath these wordes Uirtutes vero Maiestatis â—…uae c. I purpose not here to rehearse otherwyse of your Maiestyes vertues both for that I haue to small habilitie for so great a woorke and better it were not to speake at all of a matter of weight than not to bee able to prosecute it as the worthinesse of it requireth And also for that Nicephorus in hys Preface when hee consecrateth the trauayle of thys Hystorie to Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure of Constantinople for so beeing mooued by coniectures I take him to bee he liuely expresseth as it were in a Glasse the moste of those selfe same vertues Besides this where Nicephorus in the beginning of his Preface Dedicatorie doth call the Emperour to whome he dedicateth his woorke Pricipem omnium Christianissimum atque humanissimum A moste Christian and moste curteous Prince Herevppon Iohn Langus maketh his first marginall note Uidetur is esse Emanuel Paleologus This Prince seemeth to bee Emanuell Paleologus And after that in the same Preface he addeth another note thereof Emanuels nato praedones Turcae Constantinopoli eiecti sunt VVhen Emanuell was borne the Turkishe spoylers were driuen out of Constantinople And againe Imperatoris Emanuelis infantiâ—… The infancie of Emanuell the Emperour Lykewise another Successor eius in Imperio Constantinopolitanâ—… Emanuel filius His successour in the Empire of Constantinople was Emanuell his sonne Another Diuini numinis erga Emanuelem gratia fauor The grace and fauour of the diuine Godheade towardes Emanuell Another Tribâ—…untur Emanueli praecipue Imperatoriae virtutes The chiefe vertues of an Emperour are ascribed to Emanuell Another PalatiuÌ„ Impâ—…riale ib idem ab Emanuele constructum The Emperours Palayce was buylt by Emanuell Another Eam videlicet Constantinopolim per Emanuelem Christiani retinuerunt The Christians helde it that is to say Constantinople by Emanuell And yet another Dedicatur Ecclesiastica hystoria Imperatori Emanueli veluti corona capiti cius imponitur The Ecclesiasticall hystorie is dedicated to the Emperour Emanuell and is set on his head as it were a crowne Nowe master Stapleton might not all these notes vpon the Preface made by Langus a learned Papist moue the Bishoppe to name the Emperour Emanuell Paleologus and cleare the Bishoppe of vnfaythfull dealing and raysing of mystes And if he were deceyued he was deceyued for that he gaue to muche credite to suche famous Papistes as Lazius and Langus the Doctours of the faculties of Sorbone and of Louayne that take vppon them Censoriam potestatem To haue the authoritie of Censors in allowing and approouing the moste of all youre Bookes If therefore ye blame the Bishoppe for this except ye will shewe your selfe ouer partiall ye must needes condemne all these for the same Nowe master Stapleton hauing as he thinketh about this name gotten a great triumphe pretending to driue awaye the myste and cleare the coastes doing nothing him selfe but trampling in the duste and raysing vaine smokes aboute bare names letting the matter alone vnaunswered the more to dimme the Readers eyes telleth vs howe this Andronicus the elder sonne to Michaell after hys fathers death summoned a Councell of the Gretians wherein hee and they anulled and reuoked that hys Father had done at the Councell at Lions namelye concerning the proceeding of the holy Ghoste and for the whiche Nicephorus Maister Hornes Authour beeing also carryed awaye wyth the common errour as with an huge raging tempest dothe so highly aduaunce this Andronicus And so withall ye see vppon howe good a man and vpon howe good a cause master Horne hath buylded his newe supremacie to plucke downe the Popes olde supremacie For the infringing whereof the wicked working of wretched Heretikes is with him here and else where as we shall in place conuenient shew a goodly and a godly President as it is also with maister lewell for to mainteyne the verye same quarrell as I haue at large in my returne agaynst hys fourth article declared What yée haue there declared at large or at briefe Master Stapleton is not our matter nor I haue it to sée and I recke not to looke for I déeme it by this If I iudge amisse GOD forgiue me Onely herein all the worlde maye sée what a iollie bragger ye bée Ye are euer telling vs of youre Forâ—…resle youre Translations your Replies your turnes and returnes besydes thys your Counterblast nothing muste bée forgotten of all your clerkly Pamphletes If yée wante good neighbours ye will not spare to commende them to vs your selfe As for mée I will for this once returne your returne emptie to your selfe and aunswere onelye your presente quarrels The effecte whereof is to deface the Bishops allegation as grounded vppon the doyngs of an Heretike and auouched oute of the sayings of an erronious authour And to this purpose first ye threape vpon the Reader the Prince to haue beene Andromens the elder and not Emanuell And yet for all ye woulde make it so cleare a case ye sée the Doctours doubt as they say and all your owne Doctours and that the chiefe in iudgement Secondly ye woulde make the facte and doings that are commended by Nicephorus in this Emperour to be about the anulling and reuoking of that Michaell had done at the Councell of Lions namely concerning the procéeding of the holy ghost wheras all your Doctors abouesaid name it chiefly to be for expelling of the Turkes and preseruing of the Christians in Constantinople besides his other vertues For the which cause not onely Nicephorus so highlye commendeth him but also Lazius Langus and all your foresayde Sorbonistes and Louanians And yet you to make the Emparor and the matter odious say that it was the denying of the proceeding of the holy ghost for the which Niceph. doth so highly aduaunce this Andronicus Wherein as ye slaunder them both so thirdly doe ye great wrong to Nicephorus to slaunder him with so great an hereste and saye that he was caried away with the common error as with an huge raging tempest But I doubt it will rather séene M. Stapleton your selfe were caried awaye with so huge a raging tempest eyther of the heate of some cholericke passion or some melancholicke enuie so cankered against the Bishop and the truth of his cause that it maketh you freat and rage euen against Nicephorus also For and ye were not caried away in the huge raging tempest of such a sustian fume a man might then be the bolder to pull you by the sléeâ—…e and gently demaunde if ye finde any thing in this Nicephorus wherefore ye shoulde so sore chalenge him of this heresie or wherefore he shoulde so highly commende this Emperour for this heresie I thinke ye woulde be better aduised and mollifie this sharpe chalenge of heresie in Nicephorus Many superstitions and fabulous tales there be found of manye thinges in Nicephorus I graunt but for my owne part I finde not
the B. for saying an Ecclesiasticall writer commendeth him for a Christian Emperour but what will you say to the same writer if he will call him the most Christian Emperour is not this warraÌ„t inough for the B he calleth him an exaÌ„ple a glasse or a spectacle for others What if not onely Nicephorus say the same a great deale more but Langus your catholike Clerke say euen the same also and commend him like wise for a paterne and mirror to the Emperour Ferdinande But Lorde what a stirre is here for that the B. spake of reforming religion to the purenesse thereof Here is the Bishop and Maister Foxe chalenged both of them for heretikes more than any of their felowes Here is Maister Stapleton disposed to haue his tongue roll as though it had not walked and run at large before And then sayth he that I may a little roll in your rayling Rhetoricke wherein ye vniustly rore out against M. Feckenham may I not for much better cause and grounde say to you than you did to him to make him a Donatist M. Horne Let your friends now weigh with aduisement what was the erroneous opinion of the Grecians against the holy ghost and let them compare your opinion and guilefull defences thereof to theirs and they must needes clap you on the backe and say to you Patrisas if there be any vpright iudgement in them deeming you so like your great graundsiers the Grecians as though they had spyt you out of their mouth Howe iustly or vniustly the Bishop proued Master Feck of set purpose to followe the steps of the Donatistes is alreadie declared at large and also howe teatly you haue excused him and brought him and your selfe further into the selfe same briers But howe vnfâ—…tlye and vniustly here ye woulde returne the Bishops words vpon himselfe chalenging him to denie as the Grecians did the procéeding of the holy ghost from the father and the sonne is not only manifest to the contraryâ—… to all that knowe and often heare in publike place the profession of his faith to argue you to be a wilfull malicious lier Abhominatio est domino labia mendacia lying lips are abhominable to the Lorde but also the Bishops wordsminister no occasion to gather any such surmise vpon Which sheweth you to be a captious wrangling sophister for the Bishop doth not flatly say he was such an one as reformed religion to the purenesse therof which you make him here to say but he sayd Nicephorus in his Preface before his ecclesiasticall storie doth compare Emanuel Paleologus the Emperour to Constantine for that he did so nearely imitate his duetifulnesse in ruling procuring and reforming religion to the purenesse thereof in whiche wordes the Bishoppe sayeth that Nicephorus commendeth him for this And this haue I proued at large that Nicephorus doth so which is the Bishoppes full discharge How be it this you wil not sée but make it the bishoppes flatte assertion Which yet notwithstanding were it so no man except hée were sette on gogge of pure malyce woulde wrest this sentence of the Bishoppe to anye other matter than to the present controuersie of the Princes dutie and dealing in ecclesiasticall matters and not to euery other opinion or vice which was either in the Emperor or in Nicephorus or else in al the Gretians And woulde ye but limit your selfe to the boundes of the question as the bishop doth ye coulde not haue made this false extravagant chalenge And ye shoulde haue séene that not onely the bishop had discharged himself but that so farre forth as this controuersie stretcheth both the Emperour Nicephorus and also all the Gretians whatsoeuer they were in other pointes in this controuersie of the Princes supreme gouernement it appeareth they were of a sounde and true opinion although you call it schismaticall and hereticall whatsoeuer be against the Primacie of your Pope but till you prooue it so to be no wyse man will be moued with your bare so calling it If you nowe denie that Nicephorus was of this opinion besides the Bishops allegations that haue prooued it sufficiently The same Preface of Nicephorus is full of other proues First Nicephorus dedicateth his ecclesiasticall hystorie to this Emperour not onely to haue his publike protection but also to haue the Emperors censure and iudgemeÌ„t whether it were sounde doctrine agréeable to Gods worde and méete to be set out among Christian people or no. Inprimis vero si quid minus c. But chiefly sayeth he if anything shoulde not haue bene declared of mee in this woorke that your myldenesse woulde pardon mee and by the sharpenesse of your iudgement you woulde clense my historie eyther by adding to or taking therefrom For whatsoeuer your iudgement shall more exactlye correct that shall bee accounted both to mee and to all other thankefull and sure Forbicause that of all other which haue bene vnto thee it hath chiefly happened by the readynesse and quickenesse of nature through the gift of God to perceyue and finde out suche thynges And bycause thon knowest both to reason and dispute wyth a iust moderation and also hast skill to expound diuine matters with feare And bicause thou canst excellently conceiue in thy minde and with an eloquent mouth declare that which thou thinkest good And moreouer canst in a maner giue such iudgement thereon that one thing may bee throughly knowne from the other Neyther is there any founde so malapert or rash that after thy correction and iudgement will abyde to set his hande vnto thy writing â–ª c. And the like sentence he hath towardes the ende of the Preface Thus besides his authoritie such an excellent iudgement in determining and deciding diuine and ecclesiasticall matters Nicephorus ascribeth to this Prince and commendeth him for euen as you woulde do to the Pope or any of your most reuerend holy fathers All which you cleane denie to Princes to haue any medling knowledge iudgement or determination in them but rather commende Princes for ignorance and woulde haue them onely meddle with iudging mereâ—…cuill matters But Nicephorus euen where the Bishop left in citing his allegations which were sufficient to any man except to such a brabler as you sayth to the Emperour Moreouer thou hast with a feruent order made more sincere and purer than golde the priestly vnction which sounded of a certaine corruption And also both by setting out a law and thy letters thou hast taught a continencie of maners and contempt of money by meanes whereof the priestly ministery of the common weale is become holy the which in former tymes by little and little through a corruption of discipline and maners was defiled and depraued And here noteth Langus in the Margin Reformatiâ—… Ecclesiae The reformation of the Church And thou conceyuing alwayes some more notable matter hast adorned the forme and state and Image of the Church most beautifully polishing it vnto the primitiue example These things
holy ghost that ye terme with an vnclean an impure mouth pure religion were in their chiefe citie of Constantinople in the time of Constantinus sonne to Iohn nephew to Andronicus your Emanuels father euen about VVhitfontide at which time the Catholike Church in true and syncere fayth concerning the holye ghost keepeth a solemne festiuall day of the holy ghost sodenlye by the wicked Turkes besieged and shortly after the Citie and the whole Greeke Empire came into the Turkes handes and possession VVherein God seemeth as before to the Iewes so afterwardes to the Grecians as it were with pointing and notifying it with his finger to shew and to notifie vnto all the worlde the cause of the finall destruction aswell of the one as of the other people What is all this to the purpose M. Stapleton what maketh this against the Bishoppes matter or to further yours except to lengthen your tale although it séemeth that your tale is false neyther you agrée with your selfe therein it is false bicause at that time the great Turke besieged and wonne the Empire of Gréece the Grecians had forsaken this heresie yea and that more is acknowledged the Popes supremacie wherein the question lyeth whether in so doing they fell into another or no for after their agréement at Lions councell by Michaell Paleologus and their reuolt agayne vnder Andronicus the elder Iohn the sonne of Emanuell nephewe to Andronicus the yonger whom before ye mentioned came to the councell at Florence that was called in spits of Basill councell and agréed with Pope Eugenius whome Basill Councell had deposed and so continued in agréement with the Pope till in Constantinus reigne brother to this Iohn the Turke besieged and ouercame them And so your tale is false that say they rested in this opinion till their captiuitie Whereas a good while before they had quite forsaken it after they fully vnderstoode the Latines opinion theron which before they did not Secondly ye agrée not with your owne tale for both in your Preface and hereafter in many places ye ascribe the captiuitie of them chiefly to their not acknowledging of the Pope and so doth Uolaterane which is as false as the other For at that time they were fully agréed with him And here as one that had forgotten his former tale you ascribe the chiefe cause of their captiuitie to the heresie against the holy ghost and so make your proportion betwéene the Iewes bondage at Easter and theirs at Whitsontide at what time is celebrated the solemne feast of the holy ghost And thereon ye take vppon you as though ye were of Gods secrete counsayle to tell vs howe God poynted out the matter wyth hys finger But where to is all this so farre fetched about how is it brought into the purpose For M. St. will haue nothing here that is nedelesse and farre from the matter forsooth this must be presupposed that the Grecians are the B â–ª dearlings â–ª and that the Bishop is of the same opinion bicause he alleged Nicephorus as is before said And her vpon he maketh his marginall note a good aduert sement for M. Horne to consider the cause of the destruction of Constantinople Where by this rule he may saye it is a good note for Langus for Lazius for the Sorbonistes of Paris for his owne Doctors and good maisters at Louaine where he professeth himselfe a student in Diuinitie to beware the same for they haue commended Nicephorus to all the worlde and they allowe his doctrine for pure religion in all pointes not excepting this and therforeal the Papists be belike the Grecians dearlings and denie the proceeding of the holye ghost from the father and the sonne so is it a fitter admonition for the Popish catholikes than for the B. or any other Protestant whose faith in this point and all other concerning the holy ghost the Papistes can not blemish And yet by your leaue M. St. the Papistes be not very sounde in all pointes concerning the holy ghost as I shall shewe you further when you require the same and therefore they had more néede of the twayne to beware of this ensample But since M. Stapl. will so faine haue this cause considered of the Grecians captiuitie I graunt him this their errour might worthily be noted a sufficient cause or any oter errour or naughtinesse of life might well deserue the heauy hande of God and the scourge of such a tyrant as the Turke But whatsoeuer they or we to whome God be mercifull at Gods handes doe deserue not entering into Gods iudgement but speaking of men the most likely and chiefest cause of this Empires decay is euen the verye Pope him selfe his ambitious treacherie first spoyled and diuided the Empire into twaine and made all the West part forsake their sworne obedience And hath also so spoyled this part of the Empyre in the west that besides the bare title of the Empire of Rome the Emperour God wote hath little or nothing the Pope in effect hath all And where the Emperor of Rome had wont to be Lorde to the Bishop of Rome and to other Bishops besides The Bishop of Rome is nowe Lorde to the Emperour of Rome and to all other Princes besides and to attaine to his triple diademe ouer all Princes he hath neuer ceased to stirre and moue such garboyles as all Christendome hath lost onely the Pope hath woon therby and the barbarous nations haue ouerrunne all Europe Asia and Affricke No maruayle then if at the length Christian Princes powers being diuided and weakened with continuall warre and chiefly set on or maintained by the Pope especially against the Grecians the Turks at the last haue ouercome the Empire being destitute of forrein ayde and of themselues giuen to wanton effeminatenesse Although thus much I may iustly note they euer well ynough defended and maintained them selues till they acknowledged obedience to the Pope who was the first cause of their ruine Which done they neuer throue after but were in short time besieged cleanâ—… ouercome When they had once giuen their soules captiue to the tirannie of the Pope their bodies not long after became thrall to the slauerie of the Turke Which séemeth rather to be Gods iust plague vnto them wherein to vse your owne wordes as it were with pointing and notifying with his finger he sheweth to all the worlde to beware of these two aduersaries the spirituall enimie the Pope and the bodilie enimie the Turke Thus M. Stapleton your néedlesse admonition toucheth your selfe and your Pope nearer than ye were a wist Neuerthelesse not so content making as though you had as in déede ye haue ouershotte your selfe you pretende to drawe nearer home But what speake I of Greece say you wee neede not to run to so farre yeares or countries the case toucheth vs much nearer the Realme of Boheme and of late yeares of Fraunce and Scotlande the noble Countrie of Germanie with some other that I
Empresses write for Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople and for the Bishop of Rome Wherein though they ascribe the dealings to the Councell and to the Bishop of Rome yet the licence and authoritie to do any thing or to stay any thing they al ascribe to the Emperour And as they ascribe this in these Epistles vnto him which argueth his supreme gouernement in all these matters so the Emperour in the answeres to these Epistles that are immediatly set downe to those by you cited acknowledgeth and claymes his supreme authoritie therein In the answere to the first from whence ye bring your allegation for the Popes primacie he saith The Emperour Theodosius to my Lord Valentinian Emperour In the beginning of your letters it is signified by your Maiestie both that your mildenesse came to Rome and that a petition was offered vp to you by Leo the most reuerende Patriarche As concerning your safe returne to the Citie of Rome O my Lorde my moste holy Sonne and honorable Emperour we render thankes accordingly to the diuine Maiestie but as concerning those things which the foresaide most reuerende man hath spoken it is already declared vnto him more plainly and fully as we suppose and he knoweth that we swarue in no parte from the Religion of our fathers and the tradition of our auncetours We will no other thing than the fathers sacraments deliuered as by succession to keepe them inuiolably For this cause therefore hauing knowledge that certaine persons with hurtfull noueltie trouble the most holy Churches we haue decreed a Synod to be holden at Ephesus VVhereas in the presence of the most reuerend Bishops with much libertie and with sounde truth both the vnworthie were remoued from their Priesthood and those that were iudged to be worthy were receyued VVe therefore know nothing committed of them contrary to the rules of faith or iustice Therefore all the contention was examined of the holy Councell Flauianus which was founde giltie of hurtfull newfanglednesse hath receiued his dew and he being remoued all peace and concorde remaineth in the Churches and nothing but truth doth florish Thus the dealing and determining of the controuersie remayning Synodically to the Priests and Bishops the decreing of the Councell the assigning of the time and place thereto the giuing them in charge to boulte out the truth the receyuing intelligence from them of their iudgements the allowing and ratifying their determination belonged to Theodosius And in respect of this his supreme doing though at other times he extoll the Bishop of Rome yet here he onely calleth him but most reuerende Patriarche and most reuerend man as he calleth other Bishops The answere to the second Epistle hath the like Theodosius to my Ladie Placidia the honorable Empresse our highnesse vnderstandeth by the letters of your mildenesse what the most reuerende patriarch Leo hath desired of your highnesse To these your letters we declare that concerning those things whiche are spoken of the most reuerende Bishop we haue written often times alreadie more fully and more at large by which writing it is without doubt manifest that we haue defined or decreed or vnderstoode nothing besides the fayth of the fathers or the diuine opinions or the definitions of the most reuerende Bishops which were gathered togither in the Citie of Nice vnder Constantine of godly memorie or of late were gathered togither at Ephesus by our precept But this onely we commaunded to be ordeyned that all persons which by noisome hurtfulnesse troubled the holy Churches should worthily be remoued c. Thus doth the Emperour commaunde the Councell to be holden He giueth a generall charge to the Bishops to ordeyne that that they ordeyned to wete the expulsion or deposition of perturbers of the Church whatsoeuer they were and in what matter ecclesiasticall soeuer they were And when the Bishops had according to the Emperours commaundement ordeynes this decrée and in their synodicall discussing of the matter found out Flauianus though therein they did him wrong to be culpable hereof then the Emperor peruseth ratifieth and confirmeth the same their synodicall iudgement and sayth he defined and decreed it himselfe bicause he approued and confirmed their definition and decrée Which is a manifest argument of Thodosius supreme authoritie ouer all the Bishops debatings and determinings of their ecclesiasticall constitutions To the same effect is the other Epistle to Eudoxia Wherin he telleth the Empresse flatly that since these things were alreadie decreed it was not possible to determine of the matter any more In which deniall of suffring the matter to be tryed any further he sheweth also his supreme authoritie of debarring and frustrating any appeales to Rome that you make so great accompt vpon The Emperour will not onely not suffer it to take place and to infringe the Councels and his owne doing but sayth it is impossible to procéede on the matter alreadie determined And thus he reiecteth Flauianus appeale from the Epheâ—…ine Councell to the Bishop of Rome Which Councell notwithstanding should also haue bene held by the Emperours leaue and appoyntment But he would not allow it although Pope Lee laboured to him and to Ualentinian Emperors to Eudoria and Placidia Empresses neuer so much therefore Lo M. St. here are the generalities and the particularities also Wherein ye may sée what belongeth to eyther partie Hearken good M. Stap. and giue good aduertisement therto since ye will not vtter it your selfe and yet woulde haue vs listen to you You say ye wander not in obscure generalities but ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly And yet of all this ye speake not one word Ye would neither answerâ—… the Bishops allegation but set another agaynst it which is no plaine nor true kinde of aunswering neither yet for that you alleage ye alleage it either plainely or truely or particularly as ye pretende But cull out a piece of that that séemeth to set forth your cause by extolling the Bishop of Rome and when the matter is plainly truly and particularly sifted out it neither proueth any supremacie for him and in all poynts sheweth the Princes supremacie against you But ye are the more to be borne withall for I thinke ye read not the whole particulars but either as your commoÌ„ places led you or the title prefixed tickled you that saith In qua quoque Romani Pontificiâ—… authoritas comâ—…ndatur VVherein also the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome is commended And so gréedily ye snatched at that sentence and let go all the residue But call ye this plainly truly and particularly going to worke master Stapleton The. 26. Diuision THe Bishop hauing hitherto as master Feck required in his issue proued by the Scriptures both by the olde testament and the newe and by some such Doctours as haue written thereon and also which was more than M. Feck requested by the ecclesiasticall writers Nicephorus and by some of those Emperors whom they commend for most godly proued the like
that the Kyng should be obedient to the disposition of the humaine minister of Christ which is the question nowe in hande And yet whether it signifie this mysterie that you say it onely doth or no may be called into question For if it hath such a significatiō it is a very darke mysterie And me thinks it might more easilye signifie other things For oyle sometimes signifieth mercie sometimes plentie sometimes remedie against poyson sometimes it is referred to the Priesthoode sometimes to the kingdome of Christ somtimes to the mysticall members of Christ as they are Kings Priests with him so that the anoynting with oyle which espetially was vsed to Priests and Kings who therefore are called the sons of oyle is applyed to sundry significations and not onely to the incarnation and humaine nature of Christe And yet is there no suche necessitie of anoynting Christian Kings as was of the Iewishe Kings For they had commaundement so to doe and it was a ceremoniall figure of diuerse things in christ Which commaundement and ceremonies Christian Princes are not bound vnto It is cropen vp of a custome I cānot tel how to imitate the Iewes herein But as for the nature of a Kings estate he is neuer a whit the lesse King if he wante the anoynting with oyle and as the Papistes superstitiouslie doe vse it it were muche better away But the Papistes make a great matter of anoynting Kings with oyle yea sayth Maister Saunders they were wont to be annoynted no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes as thoughe they shoulde be so anoynted still And true it is in one sense that they shoulde no other wise be so annoynted still that is to say neyther of them shoulde be anoynted No say you should not the Priestes be annoynted ▪ We are In deede you be Maister Saunders and all your order But the Apostles and Disciples of Christe were not and therefore your order is differing from theirs and all godly ministers should differ from yours be ye shorne or be ye anoynted But if it be true that you say kings should be no otherwise anoynted than you howe chaunce then ye are anoynted otherwise than kings as your glosse doth reason that vpon the King is powred oile but vpon the Bishop is powred Chrisme Kings are anoynted on the righte shoulder but Byshops and Priestes are annoynted vpon their heads but the heade is better than the shoulder and Chrisme is better than oyle Ergo Bishops and Priests are superior vnto Kings Were not they which anoynted their pamphlets with such greasie argumentes to perch vp their balde crownes aboue the imperiall crownes of their natural Soueraignes worthy by the Princes commaundemente to be well anoynted with vnguentum baculinum to make them acknowledge their due subiection if they rather deserue not sharper instice but let vs procéede vnto M. Saunders other arguments Let vs put the case that Christ himselfe is at this day conuersant in the earth as he was conuersant in times paste Can any man doubt but in that he is man al Christian kings ought to be vnder his gouernment both in all eccl. and in those secular causes that may promote the cause of the Chruche for he shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and there shal be no ende of his kingdomes If therefore earthly Kings are parte of the house of Iacob Christ shall raigne ouer them and shall subdue their Kingdomes to hys spirituall Kingdome But whatsoeuer power was necessarye vnto Christe to eternall saluation he transformed the externall and and visible ministerie thereof vnto the Apostles when he said as my father hath sent me so I send you The Apostles therefore and their successors doe no lesse rule in spiritual causes ouer Christian Kings so far as the visible Ministerie than Christ himselfe is in truth ouer them so farre as the holy power of his humaine nature VVherevpon sayth Epiphanius Christ hath giuen a kingdome to those that are placed vnder him that it should not be sayde he proceedeth from little things to greater The throne of Christ abideth and of his kingdome there is no ende and he sitteth vpon the throne of Dauid so that he hath translated the kingdome of Dauid together with the Bishoprike and hath giuen it vnto his seruaunts that is to the Bishops of the Catholike Church Beholde so well the priestly as the Kingly power is communicated to the pastors of the Churche of Christe that by that meanes Christ shoulde be declared to raigne for euer yea euen as a spirituall and heauenly man And this truelye dothe that annoynting testifie that the Kings receyue of Priests The argument is thus If Christ himselfe were conuersant in earth in his humaine nature as he hath bene he shoulde haue ouer all Christian kings all eccl. and secular power in those things that might promote the Church But Christ hath giuen to his ministers in the visible ministerie all the power necessarie to saluation ouer Christian kings that belongeth to himselfe in his humaine nature Ergo he hath giuen his Ministers in the visible ministerie all ecclesiasticall and secular power in those things that maye promote the Church First this argument standeth vpon another presupposal which as it is no lesse false than the other so is it more impossible being flat contrarie to the worte of God and to the will of christ He puttes a case that Christ woulde come againe and in his humaine nature be conuersant vpon the earth as he was from his natiuitie till his death Good Lord M. Saūders is your cause so bad and false that you are still driuen to these shiftes to put the cases of false and forged presupposals if your cause were good it woulde stand of it selfe you might go plainely to worke and neuer reason vpon suche deuised cases as you knowe and beleue shall neuer be true except you be a Millenarie indéede as you gaue before a shrewde suspition of that heresie to think Christ shall come againe and here for a thousand yeares in all worldly might and glorie raigne in the earth and then go dwell in heauen But perhaps you wil say what wil you let me to put what case I lyft when the sky falles they say we shal haue Larkes True M. Saunders we can not let you to put what case you lyst be it neuer so absurde and repugnant to the truth But is this the rediest way to boult out the truth to put the case of an euident vntruth and to imagine that to come that neuer shall be to inferre that vsurpation of your Priestes that is and ought not to be But sée howe sone your argument is ouerturned For if your case be not admitted then is all your labour loste and you haue wonne nothing for your Priestes But the Scripture is manifest that this shall neuer come to passe And that the heauens containe Christ til the day of Iudgement he is neither here
But sith none hath aduentured on it I thought it my dutie to yeelde to the godlie and vrgent requestes of those personages that vnderstanding I had priuately delte therin required the publishing of my labours to the vvhich I condescended a great deale the vvillinger partly bicause it touched vvithall the defence of that Reuerende fathers innocencie and learning the Bishop of VVinchester vvho had although briefly yet most orderly and exactly handled this questioÌ„ before and vvas oppugned by this aduersarie neither vvas it for diuers causes thought so coÌ„uenient for the Bishop himselfe to ansvvere and I for my part was bounde in so iust a cause to defend him But chiefly for that it spared not most opprobriously to slaunder your most excelleÌ„t Maiestie your title your state your gouernment your most honorable and godlie CouÌ„saile your nobilitie your Bishops your clergie your magistrats your iustices your people and all estates of your dominions your doctrine your faith your religion yea the truth and glorie of God vvhich your Highnesse defendes to all vvhich I and all other are bounde in principall I thought not good therefore to stay it any longer and suffer these vncircumcised Philistines blaspheming the truth of God reproching the Lords anoynted and rayling on the hoste of Israel to stand thus and vaunt vnansvvered but lette this ansvvere that I had thus farforth made in priuate â–ª come abrode to others Promising god vvilling by your Maiesties fauourable protection to deale further vvith them and to shevvethe continuall practise hereof hovve in all ages since Christendome began to flourishe vnder the Great Constantine that christian Emperors Kings and Princes haue dealte as doth your Maiestie in the ouersight of Ecclesiastical matters till the Pope by little and little encroching on them not onely spoyled them of this their chief authoritie but of their temporal estates and vvorldly kingdoms yea of their goodes liues also In the meane season for this that is here alreadie ansvvered vnto I most humbly craue your Highnesse acceptation vvhose right is here defended by truth from sclanders that by iustice defendeth our right from iniuries Most hartily beseeching almightie God as he hitherto hath vouchsafed so to blesse preserue continue and prosper your Royal Maiestie to the loÌ„g establishing of your Highnes Throne to the vtter vanquishing of all your spirituall and bodily priuie and open enimies to the godlie comforte and quiet gouernment of all your faithful subiects and to the prosperous aduancement of Gods euerlasting glorie thorough Iesus Christe AMEN Youre Maiesties humble and obedient subiect IOHN BRIDGES The Preface to the Reader IT is nowe a good while since deare Christian Reader that this maister Stapletons Counterblast was blowne ouer the seas from Louaine against the Reuerende father in Christe the Bishop of Winchester or rather against the Quenes Maiestie and hir Supremacie was thus farre answered vnto as here is nowe set foorth Which may easily be perceiued by the reading for there is little or nothing altered except a sentence or two here there added as things haue falne out since I speake this that thou shouldest not here loke for any great or exquisite penning thinking that after so loÌ„g a leysure some more notable and exacter answere should come forth Our aduersaries vaunt much of their wittes herein and chieâ—…y this my matefellow master Stapleton to be verie fresh pregnant in readinesse of answering for he is his mothers sonne and hath it on his fingers ends Howbeit I may say to these as Apelles sayd to one who when he had drawne a picture Lo quoth he I did this apace Some thinkes quoth Apelles it is so ruÌ„ningly done And thus it falleth often out with our Loâ—…anists writings but Sat cito si sat bene It is soone ynough if it be well inough say I when all is done The reasâ—… why this answere came forth no soner are these First I kept it priuate to my self abyding if either the Bishop against whome it was made or any other woulde aunswere to it Secondly I heard at the length that Maister Nowell the Deane of Poules trauayled in it whose learning and wisedome being suche as all the aduersaries could neuer withstand I surceased to proceede any further Thirdly when I perceiued he set not out his answere neither I thought it best to lay myne asyde also Thinking that either he was stayed vpoÌ„ som weightier consideration than I did know or else that he did thinke the boke not worth the answering at al as in very deed to the lerned marker it is not M. Nowel had answered Dorman in muche like matter before which were the occasioÌ„s why it slept so loÌ„g But since that time as many haue mused and talked much on the matter so they haue not a little marueiled why nothing was said vnto it The argument was great and waightie not so muche whether nowe the Supremacie belonged to the Pope as whether it pertained to the ciuil Magistrate and whether the Queenes Maiestie did claime and hold it by right or no The parties in controuersie were of note as wel master Feckenham among the Papistes as the Bishop of Winchester whose estimation among vs is not more for his authoritie than his name amoÌ„g other nations for his learning Nowe when Master Stapleton stept in lyke a lustie yoncker and blewe vp this Counterblast betwene these twain so hotly hallowing for answer out of hande to be made by the Bishop therto al this while had none some did interprete it that he was a very vnfit matche for so graue a Bishop as to say the truth the match was nothing euen And therefore I wite not the Bishop if he vouchsafed not to answer him especially seing home his booke was so pestred with scoldes and scorners Rhetorike Neither will the horse of noble corage strike at euery brauling curre that barks at his heeles But when others missecoÌ„strued this to the worst said the Counterblast was so notably blown that the Bishop durst not nor was able he nor any other to answer it wheÌ„ vpon the head of all this M. Saunders Latine volume coÌ„mes forth although chiefly on the Popes visible Monarchie yet once again entring into this questioÌ„ of the Princes Supremacie with fresh matter as he bosteth with such inuincible arguments against it that all are but vnlearned starke fooles and cleane madde that do defend it and not thus content so depresseth the Princes estate that he will now proue the Pope hath interest to depose al Christian Princes and release their sâ—…biects of their sworn obedience which valiant champion vauÌ„teth also of his felow Stapletons noble peece of woorke againste the Princes Supreme Gouernment saying in his prayse Quod argumentum â–ª Thomas Stapletonus omnium copiosissimè tractaâ—…it in â—…o Libro quenâ—… 〈◊〉 eloquentia doctrina refertum contra Hornum Psâ—…udoepiscopum Wintoniensâ—… edidiâ—… vvhiche argument Thomas Stapleton hathe moste copiously handeled in that booke vvhiche beeing replenished
This worthie Champion ibid. Of his noble worke and of his noble holy martyr ibid. This worthie article ibid. Like to capitaine Kets tree of reformation ibid. Ye make your reckoning without your hoste 68. a. Your reformation or rather deformation 68 b. Master Hornes foolish figuratiue diuinitie 69. a. The great weight of so mightie a proufe 69. b. Master Horne of his great gentlenesse 69. b. These mē make a very VVelshmans hose of Gods word 70. a So aptly and truly you alleage you doctors 73. b. This good Antiquarie and Chronographer 76. b. Gayly and iolilie triumpheth 77. a. Verie good stuffe as good pardie as master Hornes owne booke and as clerkely and as faythfully handled 77. a. O what a craftie Cooper smooth Ioiner is M. Horne 77. b. Your handsome holy dealing 78. a. You are worthie exceeding thankes 78. a. A'iolie marginall note 78. a. O more than childishe folly 78. a. That craftie Cooper ibid. As wise as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a saddle for as well doth a saddle fit a Cowe 78. b. Such beggerly shifts ibid. Ye haue demeaned your selfe so clerkly and skilfully ibid. Such a personage as ye counterfait 80. a. This blessed Martyr ibid. Ye are a very poore silly Clarke ibid. M. Foxe will not suffer ye to walke post alone ibid. That I may a little roll in your rayling rhetoricke ibid. Your dearlings the Grecians 80. b. Seeing ye deale so freely and so liberally 81. a. Ye haue iuggled in one 82. a. Ye haue so craftily conueyed your galles 82. a. Your darke sconce a sconce of dimme light 82. a. The new pretended clergie the pretended Bishops 84. a. To all this and all other his frumpes and scoffes he may be aunswered with his owne wordes Modestia vestra M Horne not a sit omnibus hominibus Let your modestie M. Stapleton be knowne to all men 435. b. His owne obiection of bragging This is but an impudent facing and bragging 4. a. His fourth common place of bragging In his first Preface NOt beeing able to alleage any authour that maketh not for vs pag. 7. Doe what ye can c. 15. You haue in this replie a iust and a full defence 22. I haue replyed throughout 22. I haue not omitted anie one part or parcell 22. I haue aunswered the whole 22. I wishe that the most honourable c. would commaund you to proue it so to the worlde 22. I haue here replied to all and euerie part 22. If truth be on your side ye haue no cause to sticke hereat ▪ c. go through therefore as you haue begonne c. if ye thinke your foundation good c. go through I say c. if ye now draw backe men will laugh you to scorne 23. The dealing of the Catholike writers is so vpright that suche small occasions must be piked c. else against their dealings haue ye nothing to say 18. Your cause I assure you will come forth starke naked feeble and miserable 19. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes master Iewell and the rest the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed and your contrarie doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite 8. In the seconde preface I VVas fully purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially master Iewel for a season to rest me and to stande at mine owne defence if any woulde charge me 24. I haue shaped to the whole booke a whole and full Replie wherein I rather feare I haue sayd to much than to litle 25. Thy religion is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede 27. These be such absurdities as euery man of meane consideration seeth and abhorreth 28. The primacie of the Bishop of Rome is euidently here proued 28. Master Hornes whole aunswere is but as it were a vayne blast 29. The sea Apostolike is the fountaine and welspring of all vnitie in the Catholike faith 33. Neither shall we euer finde any cause of good and sufficient contentation till we returne thither 35. In the answere to the Bishops Preface AS I assuredly vnderstande that the reuerende father my Lorde Abbate of VVestminster fol. 1. a. But this may I boldly say and I doubt nothing to proue it that in all his booke there is not as much as one worde of Scripture one Doctor one Councell general or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throughout the world counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regimēt as master Horne auoucheth nor any one maner of proufe that hath any weight or pith in the world to perswade I will not say master Feckenham but any other of much lesse wit learning and experience 3. a. I say master Horne commeth not once nighe the principall matter in question 3. a. I say further in case we remoue and sequester all other proufes on our side that M. Horne shall by the verie same fathers Councels and other authorities by himselfe producted so be ouerthrowne in the chief and capitall question vnto the which he cōmeth not nigh as a mā might say by 1000. miles that his own cōpany may haue iust cause to feare c. 3. a I say and master Feckenham wil also say that euen M. Horne himselfe retreateth so farre backe c. 3. b. The premisses then being true and of our side abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them 4. a. Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matters 4. b. In the first booke I Must be so bolde by your leaue as plainlie and bluntlie to go to worke with you as I haue done before with master Grindall and master Iewell 7. b. The Queene cannot make you Lord Bishop of VVinchester as I haue otherwhere sufficiently proued in the Fortresse of of our first faith annexed to venerable Bede 8. a. Luther and Caluine and other being therewith pressed were so messhed and bewrapped therein that they could not in this world wite what to say thereto answering this that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them 8. a. The Protestants wonderfully troubled about the question of the continuall succession of Bishops 8. a. VVhat haue ye to iustifie your cause 8. b. Master Horne can not defende and maintaine his herisies nor himselfe to be a Bishop by anie law of the realme 9. a. The Catholikes not suffered to replie least their aduersaries weakenesse should as it would haue done in deede and now daylie doth God bee praysed euidently and openly haue beene disciphered and disclosed 13. a. I dare vndertake that not onely master Feckenham but manie mo that nowe refuse shall moste gladly take the saide othe 31. a. VVhat should I reason further with this man. 32. b. Notwithstanding all your great bragges and this your clerkly booke ye knowe not nor neuer shall know but that the
alleaged c. and all thinges else that is here alleaged yet all will not reache home 68. a. VVhich aunswere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in c. 68. b. VVhich I am assured all Catholikes will graunt 68. b. Giue to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar and to God that beloÌ„geth to God â–ª which later clause â–ª I am assured doth much more take away a supreme regiment in all causes ecclesiasticall than necessalily by force of any wordes binde vs to pay yea any tribute to our Prince 69. b. VVe plainly say that this kinde of supremacie is directly against Gods holy worde 70. a. VVhat can ye conclude of all that ye haue or shall say to win your purpose 74. a. I say that if Saint Augustine were aliue he woulde say vnto you as he saide vnto Gaudentius 74. b. Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor all the residue which ye reherse of this Constantine c. can import this superioritie as we shall there more at large specific In the meane season I say it is a stark most impudeÌ„t lie 75. b As I haue at large in my returne against master Iewels fourth article declared 77. b. VVhat honour haue ye got what honour haue you I saye wonne by this or by the whole thing it selfe 78. a. And shal we now M. Horne your antecedeÌ„t being so naught the consequent ye will hereof inferre nay pardie 79. a b. VVell I will leaue this at your leasure better to bee debated vpon betwixt you and master Foxe 80. a. Ye are a verie poore sielie clearke farre from the knowledge of the late reuerende fathers Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner 80. a. That I may a little roll in your rayling Rhetorike hearken good master Horne I walke not and wander as ye doe here c. I go to worke with you truely plainly and particularly I shewe you by your owne Emperour and by plaine wordes 81. b. Hitherto ye haue not brought any one thing worth a good strawe to the substantiall prouse of your purpose 82. a. I am right well assured ye haue not proued nor neuer shall be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue 82. b. I walke not in confuse and generall wordes as you do 82. b. To all these facings and crakes though many of them be particularly aunswered as occasion requireth these his owne wordes may suffise for aunswere All men knowe that your great vauntes are but wordes of course to saue your poore honestie 1. Pref. pag. 23. Bicause he quarelleth so much with the Bishop as for other things so for his Rhetorike as also Doctour Harding and his fellowes vpbrayde likewise vnto Bishop Iewell his Rhetorike and master Dorman to master Nowell I haue therefore set downe as one of his chiefest common places a briefe note or two by the way to shewe wherein our master Stapletons flourishing Rhetorike doth most consist His obiections of Rhetorike AS for your Rhetorike ye woorke your matters so handsomly and so perswasiuely c. what a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you 1. Pref. pag. 6. 7. His chiefest floures of Rhetorike partly nothing but copia verboruâ—… an heape of needlesse wordes partly nothing but rolling on a letter With which Rhetorike thou shalt 〈◊〉 his whole booke so poudred that it should be superfluous to trouble thée with any exacter collection of theÌ„ being in effect nothing else but â—…rs bahlatiua Only I will giue 〈◊〉 a light taste thereof throughout his whole volume and the rest thou 〈◊〉 continually finde as thou readest his Counterblast His fift common place of flourishing Rhetorike IT is the Castle of your Profession the Key of your Doctrine the principal Fort of all your Religion the piller of your authoritie the fountaine of your iurisdiction the ankerholde of all your proceedings 1. Pref. pag. 1. Your cause is betrayed your doctrine dissolueth your whole Religion goeth to wracke the want of this right shaketh your authoritie stoppeth your iurisdiction and is the vtter ship wracke of all your proceedings 2. Haue I not grounded this worke c. haue I not posted it c. haue I not furnished it c. haue I not fenced it c. haue I not remooued all c. an outward shewe and countenance a gay glorious glistring face a face I say all is but a face and a naked shewe 3. Most miserably and wretchedly pinched pared and dismembred Most shamefully contaminated depraued and deformed 12. A mishapen lumpe of lewde and lose arguments 5. VVith like good Logike ye lay forth 6. The truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed 8. T. Turkish trecherie L. Lauashing language 14. B. Bluster and blow F. Fume and freat R. Raile and raue as L. Lowdlyas lewdly as B. Beastly as boldly c. ye B. Bluster not so boysterously as ye L. Lie most lewdly 15. A H. Happie happe for master Horne that happed c. S. Such slender circumstances to M. Minister him matter of such T. Trifling talke 6. b. A prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate 7. b. You will happly forsake and abandoÌ„ Saint Augustines authoritie with the olde C. Canons and Councels and 〈◊〉 vnder the defence of your B. Brittle Bulwarke 8. b. A pretie legerdemaine played and a leafe put in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the parliament c. what Parliament haue your preachers 9. a. b. O poore and siely helpe O miserable shift c. This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togither heauen and earth 9. a. VVhie good sir make ye such post haste what are you so soone at the ende I see your haste is great VVhat will you leape ouer the hedge ere ye come at it And I might be so bolde I woulde faine demaunde of you the cause of your hastie posting Perhaps there is some eye sore or somewhat that your stomacke cannot beare Grieueth it you to heare Doth it appall you to heare c. Doth it dasell and amase you to heare c. Doe yee take it to the heart Master Horne â–ª Is it a corsey to you Is there yet any other lurking sore priuily pinching your stomack I trow it nipped you at the very heart roote 212. b. 213. a. b. VVhie master Horne can your eares paciently abide all this can your stomacke digest all this master Horne can ye suffer can ye suffer How chaunce we haue not at the least for your comfort one pretie nippe 287. a. A rascall rablement of monstruous hereticall names A rablement of straunge monstrous hereticall names This rascall rablement of huge monstrous names 317. It is so it is so master Horne c. You can not you may not you shall not c. You sawe you sawe master Horne you master Horne 430. Your horrible dissention glistreth so cleare crieth so lowde and blustreth so great that so long as we haue
replie vvill declare Hovv vvell so euer he hath played his partes full ilfauoredly you begin to plaie yours M. Stap. thus to wrangle about the partes of opponent and answerer The B. playeth not the opponent but you playe the Marchant The B. not in playe but in truth good earnest as M. Feckenham pretendeth to 〈◊〉 requireth to be satisfied answereth to his requestes by the foresayde proues that here ye confesse he bringeth forth The partie opponent as in the other scruples still is M. Feckenham But be he opponent or defendaÌ„t as either of theÌ„ in respects may be either if he bring those proues that ye graunt he doth ye haue litle occasioÌ„ to make a playe scoffe at the matter Neither doth this blemish the truth froÌ„ whom he had it wher with ye would séeme as it were with an awke blowe to foyle the B. learning that he founde out these prooues not all by his owne studie but by the helpe of his friends Which as you M. Stapleton for your owne parte were faine to confesse right now so is there no cause ye should measure the Bishops knowledge by your owne defecte But herein ye do but as the residue do this is the fashioÌ„ of all your coÌ„péeres Where truth faileth you â–ª at the least to winne a credite of learning to your selues like prowde Pharisies ye dispise al other besides your selues To which purpose as M. Stapl. would staine the Bishops godly and learned labour herein at the least that all might not séeme to be his owne but gathered by others to his hands so in the telling of his owne well ordered péece of worke he setteth out euery point to the vttermost to coÌ„mende the better vnto vs his great learning industrie and perspicuitie He telleth vs solemnly how to the first parte he replieth in three bookes how he hath deuided eche booke into seuerall chapters what he hath noted at the toppe of eche page But he telleth not what common places he hath set out in eche line He telleth how he hath exceedingly lightned the matter and what recapitulations he hath made thereof To the second parte he telleth vs it shall appeare but when he telleth vs not both what strong and inuincible arguments M. Feknam right learnedly proposed as most iuste causes of his said refusall And also vvhat â—…ely shiftes and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maynteine that obstinately vvhich he once conceaued erroneously And thus forsoothe nothing to the prayse and setting forth of him selfe M. Feckenham nor to the blemishing of his aduersarie hath M. Stapleton deuided the content of the Bishops answere and his counterblast thereto Now thinking with this preiudice of both their labours he hath sufficiently affectionate the Reader to his partie thirdly he entreth into a generall fore warning of him the effect whereof is to forsake this religion which he beginneth with this earnest adiuring of him Novv good Reader saith Master Stapleton as thou tendrest thine owne saluation â–ª and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of heauen so consider and vveigh vvith thy selfe the importaunce of this matter in hande What hope of saluation M. St. can the Popish doctrine bréede that alwayes doubteth as much of damnation as it hopeth of saluation haÌ„geth wauering betwene dispayre hope admitting no certentie of faith or trust to grouÌ„de vpoÌ„ The attenâ—…ion that ye desire in the Reader we as earnestly desire the same also neither that he come to reade attentiuely with any preiudicate opinion on either parte as you would haue his minde foresâ—…alled on your side but euen with indifferencie as he shall finde the matter in hande to leade him so to weigh and consider the importance thereof euen as he tendreth and verely hopeth his ovvne saluation And as the Reader shall do this for his parte so let vs sée how you do for yours and of what great importance your arguments are to sturre vp this earnest attention in the Reader The first argument that ye make is this First vvithout authoritie is no religion Then if this Religion vvhereby thou hopest to be saued haue no authoritie to grounde it selfe vppon vvhat hope of saluation remayning in this religion canst thou receyue Now as though the Maior were in controuersie and the pointe we sticke vpon he first solemnely strengthneth it with the authoritie of S. Augustine For no true religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receaued vvithout some vvaightie force of authoritie As for the Minor which determineth nothing but hanging on a conditionall pinne maketh no directe conclusion too or fro We graunt him that iâ—… our religion haue no authoritie no hope of saluation can be grounded thereon But then he replieth If it haue any authoritie it hath the authoritie of the Prince by vvhose supreme gouerment it is enacted erected and forced vpon thee other authoritie hath it none Ergo For want of sufficient good authoritie it is no true Religion Ye desired right now M. St. euen as the Reader tendreth his ovvne saluation to consider and vveighe vvith him self the importance of this matter And is this all the importance of your first argument against our Religion that the Reader should weigh coÌ„sider so déepely What is here alleaged besides a bolde and manifest slaunder forced vpon the Reader by the authoritie onely of your bare woorde Which the more the Reader shall consider and especially thus your beginning for an handsell of good lucke to the residue he shall the better perceaue the falshood and impudencie of your whole cause dealing For to set one If against another If the reader better coÌ„sidering weighing with himself shal finde this religioÌ„ not to be of so late enacting erecting forcing but enacted erected and forced of God in his holy woorde shall not this coÌ„sideration detect you to be a malicious slauÌ„derer if the reader with al shall vveigh the peise of your argument that the Prince hath a supreme gouernment in all Ecclesiasticall causes Ergo the Religion that the Prince sets forth hath noâ—…e other authoritie but of him shal be not finde it like the father of it as light as a thing of nought But exhorting the Reader to vveigh and consider the matter not considering nor vveighing what ye say your selfe ye blunder on in your Ifs and say If then that supreme gouernment that hauing none other authoritie enacteth erecteth and forceth a Religion vpon thée be not due to the laie Prince but to the spirituall Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the vvhole spiritualtie thou â—…eest thy ReligioÌ„ is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede Here whether he be ashamed to set it downe or thinketh it so cléere it néedeth not recital but is inferred of the Maior he leaueth out the Minor of his argumeÌ„t But that supreme gouernment is due to one chiefe spirituall magistrate only and to
Peter therefore an hereâ—…ike nor saint Paule woulde haue B. to be hereâ—…ikes But herein your owne Canons answere and confute you And yet here to proue vs heretikes for defence of mariage he saith he will referre vs to the olde Canons of the fathers What fathers meane you the Apostles Master Stapleton that sayd mariage was honourable among all men Meane ye the Canons that beare those fathers titles and say Episcopuâ—… aut Presbiter vxorem propriam nequaquam sub obtentu religionis abijciat si vero reiecerit excommunicetur sed si perseuerauerit deijciatur Let not a Bishop or a Priest putte awaye his owne wyfe vnder the pretence of Religion and if he put hir away let him be excomunicate and if hee continue in his fault let him be put out of his office If you meane these fathers your selues heare their verdict agaynst you Dr meane ye the fathers of Nicene councell that agréed to the reuerent father Paphnutius but for some of the fathers ye name whom ye meane specially S. Augustine and Epiphanius whom ye call poore Catholikes in déede master Stapleton they are very poore helpes that ye can wring from them to maintaine Poperie withall but thinking we will reiect them M. St. will wrap vs euen in our owne confessions Your owne famous Apologiâ—… sayth he sayth that Epiphanius numbreth 80. heresies of the which it is one for a man after the order of Priesthood to mary But I trust you wil not be agaynst your owne Apologie Ergo ye are heretikes by your owne confession that marie after Priesthood The coÌ„sequence of this argumeÌ„t goeth hard M. St. to reason from the Apollogies reciting of Epiphanius to the Apollogies allowing of all thinges that either he hath or they recite out of him But letting go your logike I aunswere to the maior The Apologie sayth truely that Epiphanius numbreth 80. heresies and the Apologie vsâ—…th this tearme Heresies in the same sense that Epiphanius did as appeareth plainly by the example of heresies that are therein rehearsed Epiphanius entituling his booke contra 80 hereses meaneth not 80. perticular and seuerall false opinions for so he should haue doubâ—…ed at the least that number but he meaneth by 80. heresies so many head or chief â—…ectaries or sects whereof euery one maintayneth many seuerall perticular opinions hereticall this is the plaine meaning of Epiphanius as appeareth most manifestly through out his booke which argueth that M. St. séeking this poore shift full lyke a poore Catholike and poore clearke also neuer read Epiphanius himselfe but hearing tell that Epiphanius wrote agaynst 80 heresies 〈◊〉 at 80 â–ª perticular opinions hereticall Of the which heresies taken after Epiphanius his vsage sect or sectarie either for a perticular opinion hereticall he reckeneth this for none that I can finde for a man after the order of priesthood to marie If he had reckened this for any be sure M. Stap. would hane reckened vp hys wordes and quoted the place Master Staâ—…leton now imagining with himselfe that he hath quite foyled vs and that we must runne from the fathers yea and eaâ—…e our owne wordes cryeth out what then haue you to iustifie your cause But againe to help vs in this distresse he conceyueth that there is yet one poore and sâ—…elye helpe behinde and that is to flie vnder the defence as he contumeliouslye tearmeth it of our brickle Bulvvarke of actes of Parliament And here for raging after many impertinent things he coÌ„cludeth thus Such and such articles are commaunded to be set forth by the authoritie of Parliament Ergo our fayth hangeth onely on the authoritie of Parliament Item such and such articles of religion are not namely expressed in the actes of Parliament Ergo they are heretical and vnlawfull The follie of these arguments néede none other answere but to shew them But all this while where were your eyes fixed that they once looked not to the question in controuersie doe ye obserue your owne rule so well M. Stapleton howbeit sith ye doe it of bluntnesse agaynst these wordes of M. Feckenhams title the Lord Bishop of VVinchester Ye must be borne withall The seconde Diuision Fol. 1. b THe B. to proue this chalenge of M. Feckenhams title to conteyne manifest guile and falshoode sheweth the whole processe fyrst of Master Feckenhams treatise composed in the Tower and directed to the Queenes highnesse Commissioners and afterwardes howe he scrapeth out those phrases and pretendeth as thoughe the treatise had beene composed at Waltham and directed to the Bishop Secondly for his pretence of scruples as deliuered to the B. by writing to be resolued in them and of the B. resolutions there vnto the B. sheweth the whole dealing of the coÌ„fereÌ„ce betwene theÌ„ First that by mouthe not by wryting they reasoned on these poynts and that M. Feckenham seemed resolued in them and vpon what occasion afterwarde he fell to wrangling agayne from them what a doe the Byshop had to haue master Feckenham write some positions or assertions in for me of propositions to the ende they mighte certenly goe forwarde whiche the Byshop coulde not bring him vnto tyll at the lengthe at his owne requeste the Byshop putte in wryting the woordes of the othe with the sense or interpretation added therevnto that master Feckenham considering therevppon mighte deuise the fourme of his propositions wherevppon they mighte afterwarde debate Whereby appeareth bothe howe vntrue it is that he had deliuered vnto the Byshoppe any suche scruples of his in wryting for then the Byshop needed not haue soughte any propositions of hys assertions and also howâ—… vntrue that is that the interpretation of the othe whiche the Byshop wrote at his requeste before he euer sawe any writing of master Feckenham was to answere hys scruples and stayes deliuered to the Bishop in writing To these the Byshoppes chalenges of master Feckenhams false tytle master Stâ—…pletons answere is thréefolde First sayth he here is no matter effectuall but that maye seeme already by our former ansvvere sufficiently discharged Howe this matter is before of you discharged is yet freshe in the Readers memorie I thinke he will not giue ye your quietus est so lightly except ye bring better proues and agrée better to your owne tale For here where ye say ye haue ansvvered suffyciently before to all that is effectuall this argueth that he was charged with somewhat that was effectuall else haue ye answered to no effectual thing And yet your answere before was that the matter wherwith the B. charged M. F. for his false title was but a bie matter which whether it were true or false doth nothing preiudicate or touch the principal question and so the whole charge is a matter nothing effectuall But let go this to your contradictions and let the reader iudge howe sufficiently ye haue discharged M. Feck or not rather charged him with as muche or more than the B. did The secoÌ„d part of M. St. answere is a gathering
Princes that they mislyke and is in déede to be vtterly mislyked of all Christians But as this is a plaine description of your Popes supremacie that playeth in all these poynts Heraclius part so it nothing toucheth that supremacie that the Quéenes maiestie claymeth It is but your wicked malice to slaunder hir with such tyrannicall vsurpation of Heraclius as they condemne Whie doe ye not rather take theyr other comparison from Constantinus Pogonotus to al other godly Princes and referre that to hir regiment With what care and singuler diligence trauaile and godlinesse when the Churches were horibly deformed and torne by the sect of the Monothelites He summoned the sixt generall Councell he ouerwhelmed not the debating of the controuersie of doctrine by might or preiudice He willed the Ministers of the Churche and preachers of the worde of God to searche out which opinion was and which was not agreable to holye writte He regarded not the ensamples of hys auncesters who by publike Edictes had approued the doctrine of the Monothelites which was harde for him to abolishe Neyther did the authoritie of the Patriarches and Bishoppes in Constantinople and all ouer the East that stifly helde that opinion any thing moue him Nor he suffred himselfe to be made afrayde although he heard that the pryde of the Byshop of Rome was incredible as one that wickedly chalenged a dignitie and authoritie aboue other Bishops and teachers But sent his letters to him exhorting him to come or sende some other in his place Neyther gaue he him any prerogatiue nor craueth licence of hym to call the Councell but of hys owne duetie he defineth him selfe for the appoynting of the Councell He louingly biddeth the Romaine and other Bishoppes not to bee absent at so necessarie matters and concerning the Churches publike weale The Emperour himselfe is present at the Synode not as a dumbe or deafe person like a cifer in Algorisme or receyuing the decrees without iudging of them or placing the B. of Romes Legates in the chiefest place and receyuing them without all contradiction as oracles from them as it were from Apollos triuet but modestly reuerently and godly as much as became his calling he gouerned the Synode propounding to them the state or scope of the cause and enquiring on a rowe gathered their sentences togither least ought should be done rashly or confusedly He commaunded not the one partie but the contrarie partie also plainly and without subtilties to declare their opinions and what groundes they had of their sentences out of the holye scriptures and what autenticall witnesse of the approued fathers And so forth they declare howe indifferently he dealt with either partie knowing that he must not condemne any before he knewe the full matter And when it was euidently found out that the Monothelites could not defend their opinion by the clere testimonies of the scripture nor any sentences of the doctours allowed yea when it was founde out they hacked of purpose certaine of the Doctours sayings and in place of them cited certeyne sayings falsly fathered in the Doctors names theÌ„ the Emperor subscribed to the iudgemeÌ„t of al those that thought aright and earnestly and stoutly executed the condemnation made in the name of them all Here these wryters commend this Emperor the more for that he had about him no doubt say they such parasites as woulde tickle in his eare that these thinges were vnsitting foâ—… his maiestie to intermeddle him selfe with the brawles of the Churches pelting Doctours It were a blemish to him to condemne his ancesters to cal into doubt or retract things already decreed This were not the safest way Let the bishops alone with the matter for euen they are able to make lawes agaynst the Emperors estate and abase it The Emperour by his authoritie may do no more than commaund silence sende into exile or punish with other violence those that make clamors or disobey the councels decree But the Emperor not regarding these fancies thought it honorable to him to be present in the midst of the teachers of gods worde assisting not a little the triall and iudgement of the coÌ„trouersie This ensample these wryters thus set out for a princes gouernmeÌ„t dealing ouersight in the chiefest ecclesiastical causes And thus before they determined in generall that God or deined not Princes to spoile their subiects and make themselues â—…at Neither onely to attende to outward discipline and that men may liue in honest tranquilitie for say they seing that magistrates are in the scriptures called Gods this ought to bee their first and chiefest care that their subiects serue God after such a sorte that his kingdome in their dominions may bee knowne encreased and conserued that is to were sincere doctrine c. may be deliuered remaine passe froÌ„ theÌ„ to their posteritie To this end tendeth all politike administration all defence of peace and neighborhod that laborsome care of getting the liuing gathering goodes that these spirituall euerlasting goodes both of the body of the mind should be gotten Thus do they stretch out further than doth M. St. the bounds of a princes gouernment to al ecclesiastical canses And all that they write on the other part is against such a popish supremacie as establisheth maketh a new religioÌ„ quicquid imperitaâ—…erit reâ—… And yet sée howe spitefully and falsly M. St. wresteth it as writteÌ„ against the Q. maiestie When as he confesseth himselfe they coÌ„mend hir euen by the ensample of Constantine they allow that supreme gouernment that she doth take vpon hir Now M. St. after his maner presupposing we will reiect these writers as though they spake against the supreme gouernmeÌ„t of the Quéene In case ye thinke sayth he theyr testimonie not to haue weight ynough then herken to your their Apostle Luther who writeth that it is not the office of kings princes to coÌ„firm no not the true doctrine but to be subiect and serue the same The effect of this argument is this princes must not take on them so to confirme the true doctrine that they be not subiect therevnto nor serue but rule the same Ergo Princes may not set forth the true doctrine nor be supreme gouernors in their dominions ouer all ecclesiastical persons and causes This argument is like to his fellowe aboue And as ye wrested the former writers so wrest ye Luthers saying also whose seÌ„tence as it is nothing against the godly gouernment of our most noble soueraigne subiect to the principall authoritie of Gods word that it might be of chiefest authoritie subduing thereto the authoritie of all other writers remouing those superstitions that exalted them selues in authoritie equall or aboue Gods worde so this sentence is eftsones as the other agaynst such vsurpation as is euident that your Pope taketh vpon him But M. Stapleton dreaming that he hath so sore pressed vs and this is so harde and straunge a case that
cut halfe away of the Bishops definition which within eight lines after though nipping and wresting the woordes yet some what more truly than before he expresseth saying in those actions that may any way properly belong to the subiecte or thing gouerned Wherein he séemeth vnskilfully or as one astonnied to make no difference betwixt the subiect which is the person and the obiect which is the matter and action or not to vnderstande that properly the gouernour is not said to order and direct the obiect but the subiect in or about the obiect In which point as the Bishops definition is distinct and cleere so M. Stap. finding fault therewith but not able to saie here lieth the faulte nor to amende it and yet going about to amende it either in conclusion maketh one nothing differing in matter or farre worsse so much as it differeth from it A supreme gouernour saith M. Stapl. is he that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned not in those actiōs that may in any wise belong to the subiect or thing gouerned as M. Horne saith but in those actions that belong to the ende whereunto the gouernour tendeth This is your perfect definition M. St. which either is Idē per Idem a gouernour is he that gouerneth in those actions wherein he is a gouernour and so your fautles definition is very faultie it selfe or els it is in effect and matter all one with the Bishops definition that ye reprehende though ye would in wordes séeme to make some difference so againe it is the more vitious the more obscure it is But this may well be say you to confirme your definitiō although he haue not the chiefe gouernment in al the actions of the thing gouerned but in such actions as properly appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour M. St. we stande not now in question what may well be but what is of necessarie consequence But ye séeke out corners and darke speaches to wrappe the truth in such obscuritie after the Popishe manner that your readers might rather meruayle at ye than vnderstand ye Which if they did they should sée your folly and contradictions and that your selfe scarce vnderstād your owne wordes if they were your owne for if ye vnderstoode your selfe when ye say he hath chiefe gouernment in such actions as properly pertayne to him as a subiect to that gouernour then would ye also sée how it followeth that being a subiect to him as M. Feckenham hath confessed as well in that he is an Ecclesiasticall person as Temporall he is also a subiect to him in such actions as are so well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall The argument is euident He that is subiect to the Princes supreme gouernment is vnder him in all such actions as appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour But euery manner person so well Ecclesiasticall as Temporal borne in the Princes dominiōs is subiect to the Princes supreme gouernment Ergo The Prince hath the supreme gouernment ouer euery manner person borne in his dominions in all such actions as are Ecclesiasticall so well as Temporal And thus his owne darke speaches being brought to light make flatte agaynst him selfe But to make the Reader vnderstande his meaning better and to vnwrappe him selfe out of this obscuritie in the which he hath rather hindred than bettered his cause he setteth out the same with sundrie ensamples of a Master and his Seruaunt a Father and his Sonne a Mayor and a Citizen the Prince and his subiect a Schoolemaster and his scholers the Shipmaster and the Mariners For in one man saith he many rulers may and do dayly concurre which in some sense may euery one be called his supreme gouernour As if he be a seruant the Maister and if he be a sonne in that respect the father and if his father and Master dwell in a citie the Mayor also is the fathers maisters so his chiefe gouernour to for things concerning the chiefe gouernment of the citie and of all these the Prince chiefe and supreme gouernour as they be subiects Otherwise the Prince doth not intermeddle with the fathers office in duetifulnesse dewe to him by his sonne nor the Master for that gouernmēt he hath vpō his seruant no more than with the scholemaster for the gouernment of his schollers and their actions or the maister of the ship for the actions doings of the mariners otherwise than any of these offende the positiue lawes of the realme and so hath the Prince to do with him as his subiect or when he shal haue neede to vse them for the cōmon welth wherein as subiects and members of the said common welth they must to him obey Much like is it with the spiritual men which be also members of the said common welth and therefore in that respect subiect to the Prince and his lawes and so is it true that the Prince is supreme gouernour of all persons as well spirituall as temporall But that therefore he should also be supreme gouernour in al their actions will no more follow than of the actions of thē before rehersed yea much lesse M. St. thinketh he hath now clered the coast that by all these ensamples the matter goeth cléere with him Shewyng first how euery one of these rulers master father mayor and Prince may in some sense be called supreme gouernours But yet either he doth not or wil not sée withal how in the sense now in controuersie all these ensamples are also flat against him For as the father in all causes that haue respect from the father as father to the sonne as sonne ▪ is the sonnes supreme gouernour as he saith and as the master in all causes that haue respect from the master as master to the seruant as seruant is likewise the seruants supreme gouernour and as the mayor in all causes that haue respect frō the mayor in that he is mayor to the citizen in that he is a citizen is also the citizens supreme gouernour so the supreme gouernour of ecclesiasticall persons in all causes that haue respect from him in that he is a supreme gouernour to ecclesiasticall persons in that they be ecclesiasticall persons is in all those causes their supreme gouernour but the causes in respecte whereof they be called ecclesiasticall persons beyng no other than ecclesiasticall causes it followeth that he is not onely supreme gouernour of the persons but also in the causes belonging to the persons as the father or master is not onely supreme gouernour of the sonnes or seruaunts persons but also in those causes in respect whereof he is the sonne or seruant Yea but saith M. St. though the Prince be supreme gouernour to these and all other persons in the realme yet as he entermedleth not with father schoolemaster shipmaster c. in their seuerall actions of their offices or vocations so though the Prince be supreme gouernour of all persons ecclesiasticall yet is he not supreme gouernour in
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
in his owne person throughout al his couÌ„trey What fault find ye herewith that he called it a progresse call you it an egresse or by what ye can finde a more vsuall or â—…itter name where the prince him selfe doth trauell The text is 〈◊〉 egressus est ad populuÌ„ and again he went foorth vnto the people Stande ye on that he said it was in his owne person In déede Lyra saith per sacerdotes Leuit as sicuâ—… ante ficaraâ—… He went foorth by the Priests Leuites as he had done before But the text séemeth coÌ„trary that he traueled him selfe Wheron Uatablus noteth vt ambularet per populuÌ„ fortasse queÌ„ offenderat â—…alo exeÌ„plâ—… vel per populuÌ„ cut praeâ—…rat quasi dicat peâ—…agrauit regioneÌ„ sibi subditam That he might trauel by the people whoÌ„ perhaps he had offended by his euill exaÌ„ple for personally he went out with them to Achabs warres or by the people whoÌ„ he ruled as though he should say he trauelled all ouer the realme that was subiect to him Are ye offended that he sayth throughout al his countrey The text is playne De Bersabe vsque ad monteÌ„ Ephraim from Beersabee euen to the mount Ephraim Id est sayth Lyra à principio regni sui vsque ad finem that is from the beginning of his kingdome euen to the end therof Of which progresse in the note before sayth Lyra Hie consequenter ponitur ipsius Iosaphat emeÌ„datio in se populo primo in cultu diuino Here consequently is set foorth the amendment of Iosaphat in him selfe and in the people and first in the worship of God. In none of these words hitherto there is any indignitie nothing to be detested or any ridiculous tale to be laughed at but euery word is agreable to the most graue holy and infallible worde of God. If there were therfore any such leuitie detestablenesse in the bishops termes it is only in this that he likened those parties to iustices of the peace But this name I am sure is neither to be detested nor laughed at except you be some od wicked Lucian or Timon â—…all godly christians can allowe this name with reuerence Is the ridiculcusnesse detestablenesse in saying the one might resemble the other reade the text Constituitque Iudices terrae in cunctis ciuitatibus Iuda munitis per singula loca and he appointed Iudges of the land in all the walled cities of Iuda through all places Now could a man expresse this by a liuelyer example than to say those petit iudges were as it were Iustices of the peace if you can shewe a more apter estate to expresse them by do it on Gods name I dare say for the Byshop he will giue you good leaue though ye somewhat missed the quishion make no such haynous matter therat Lyra sayth Hic secundo describitur ipsius Iosaphat populi melioratio in regimine populi primo in communibus causis secundo in arduis in quibus erat recursus in Hierusalem Circa primum dicitur constituitque Iudices vt non oporteat populum discurrere à loca ad locum ad habendum in causis communibus Heere secondly is described the bettering of Iosaphat him selfe and his people in the gouernance of the people first in common causes secondly in difficulte causes wherein the recourse was vnto Hierusalem Concerning the firste it is sayde and he appoynted Iudges to be had in the common matters that the people shoulde not runne vp and downe from place to place And is not this exposition of Lyra so agreable to the Byshops that it conteyneth euen the same what cause then had ye héere Master Stapl. to make this haynous exclamation Were not this youre dealing rather ridiculous and to be laughed at sauyng that the indignitie of your enuious demeanour is more to be detested But nowe in the matter of all this what is héere that directly inferreth not Iosaphats supreme gouernement not onely ouer the nobles and the people but ouer the Priests Leuites preachers al the clergy in directing and setting foorth the word worship of God that not only in coÌ„moÌ„ matters but eueÌ„ for those matters also of the priests senteÌ„ce at Ierusalem for the which hitherto ye haue made so muche ado but all this M. Stap. though he saw it plaine inough yet he thought best not to meddle therwith But rather least the reader shoulde marke it also to finde him play about the printing of words and phrases and here at to hallow and make suche outcries as though all the matter lay therein Yea he bursteth out into such a vehemencie of his spirite that not contente with his former haynous quarels he layeth yet greater to the Byshops charge saying But from fonde counterfayting he proceedeth to flat lying for where he sayth that Iosaphat commanded and prescribed vnto the chiefe Priests what fourme and order they should obserue in the ecclesiasticall causes and controuersies of religion c. This is a lewde and a horrible lye flatly belying Gods holy worde the which in one that goeth for a Byshop what can be done more abhominable In déede M. Stapl. it were an abhominable thing to belye Gods holy worde were it in any man chiefly in a Byshop but this abhomination besides many worsse not only lewdly flatly horribly to belie but to deface blaspheme yea to take away and burne Gods holy worde are the right properties of your Popish Bishops not of ours But what hath the Bishop nowe héere saide that belyeth and accordeth not with the holy scripture for the wordes which you your selfe set foorth do they not playnly comprehende a fourme and order which they should obserue in ecclesiasticall matters and controuersies of religion Sic agetis c. Thus shall ye do in the feare of the Lorde faythfully and with a perfect heart And as your selfe expound it They should do their duetie faythfully and perfectly as they had done before in the dayes of Asa and Abias Lo do not your owne selfe héere confesse a maner and fourme of order which be prescribed them to do those things by Agayne are not these your owne words howe Iosaphat appoynted the Leuites and priestes to these ecclesiasticall functions it shal appeare in the next Chapter by the example of Ezechias Where ye say howe he did it had that how no maner or fourme of order in it Yes but ye say that maner of fourme shall appeare in the example of Ezechias A Gods name so let it doe in the meane season ye graunt he did it after the fourme of order that Ezechias dyd it And there ye say that Ezechias did it as Dauid did it But ye wotte well the Scripture sheweth at large the fourmes and orders of Dauids appoyntments if therefore Ezechias did it like to Dauid and Iosaphat like to Ezechias then is the bishops saying proued true by all these your confessions that he
commaunded and prescribed vnto the chiefe priests what fourme and order they should obserue in ecclesiasticall causes and controuersies of religion Is not this then your own abhomination and contradiction â—…atly to say here is no fourme or order prescribed and that the Bishop belieth Gods holy woorde which in one that goeth for a student of Diuinitie to sclaunder one that goeth for a Bishop what can be done more malapertly But as ye thus sawfely misuse your better so full fondly and malitionsly do yâ—… gather that thereon then the which the Bishop minded nothing lesse nor can instly be gathered thereupon Yâ—… say the Bishop writeth thus to make folke weene that religion proceded then by way of commission from the Prince onely This is your owne spitefull sclander M. Stapl. not onely on the Bishop but on the Quéenes Maiestie your argument is this He prescribed them a fourme and order to obserue in coÌ„trouersies of Religion Ergo He attempted to make Religion proceede by way of commission from the Prince onely This is a false and maâ—…itions collection M. Stapl. from the fourme and order of athing to the thing it selfe It is your holy father the Pope to whom ye may obiect this conclusion he maâ—…eth religion to depende on him and to proceede from him onely â–ª by his Commissions and Legacies â—… latere We-acknowledge all true religion to procéede onely from God the father through Iesus Christ his sonne by the insâ—…ctioÌ„ of the holy ghost in the mouth of the Patriarches Prophets and Apostles And from the Prince to procéede onely such godly orders and formes of directing and setting foorth that true religion as he by the notable examples of these godly Kinges shall finde out paterns most expedient for him and his people to gouerne and order them of what â—…state soeuer they be in that true religion and all other ecclesiastical causes belonging thereto So did Iosaphat then so doth the Quéenes Maiestie now FroÌ„ whose authoritie next â—…nder â–ª God the order direction procéeded though the religioÌ„ procéeded not from them but altogither from God. Nay say you king â–ª Iosaphats dealings were rather with 〈◊〉 persoâ—… thâ—…n with matters ecclesiasticall This was M. FeckeÌ„hams former shifte and many proper ensamples and similitudes you also vsed thereon to dally about the 〈◊〉 of the ecclesiasticall person but not in ecclesiastical matters But those were but séely shifts and euer turned against your selfe in the ende And therefore ye darâ—… not abide by this shifte but within a litle while after yea euen in this Chapter ye recant and denie the obedience of the persons and all And what hath bene your practise any other than cleane to ridde your selues out of al obedience from the Princes authoritie ye knowe your Pope hath bene vnder the Emperour ere now but vnder what Princes obedience euen for his person will ye confesse your Pope at this day to be And do not all the packe of the popishe Priestes as his chickens clâ—…cke vnder his winges and exempt euen their persons also from the dutifull obedience they owe to their naturall soueraignes in so much that where the Popes primacie is admitted Princes can not by any of their laweâ—… â–ª fasten any condigne punishement vppon any ecclesiasticall persons â–ª what mischiefe soeuer they committe and all bicause the ecclesiasticall persons were priuileged and exempted from their Princes authoritie Wherein your generation dealt surely for themselues that hauing graunted them an inche got an elle For seing that if they should graunt againe the obedience of the person the cause and all would at last returne to his old master the Prince as it did before but you thinke your selfe sure inough if ye graunt that Iosaphat dealed with ecclesiasticall persons but not with their matters As ye shifted of the matter before that the Prince dealeth with a Bishop for his homage baronie and temporalties but not otherwise Thinke ye M. Stapl. and tell me on your fidelitie did Iosaphat meddle with the high Priestes and all other of the Clergie so well as his temporaltie onely in respecte of their persons or in respecte of their reuenues and linings vnder him or chiefly in any of these respectes did he thus commaunde them and deale with them or not rather and most of all in respect of refourming abuses in religion and setting in order all ecclesiasticall causes he appointed not onely the persons but the places where the persons shoulde execute their offices and what matters these and those persons shoulde entreate vppon and how they shoulde do them as your selfe haue confessed the manner And least we should thinke he â—…ubbered ouer the matter as ye say many good and godly princes among the Christians also haue charged their Bishops and clergie to see diligently vnto their flockes and charges Ye say true M. Stapleton many godly Princes haue thus done to your further confutation in this issue But you meane they haue onely giuen them a generall exhortation and yet neuerthelesse lefte the matter wholly in their Clergies hands not medling themselues therewith Least ye should thinke that Iosaphat did it thus sclenderly not that his chiefe charge of ouersight lay thereon not onely of them all generally but particulerly in euery kinde of matter the holy ghost hath penned out how precisely he went to worke that rather hauing his care about the matters then the persons For this was his principal marke care not so much that the person might sit in authoritie as that the matter might wisely and truly be iudged and discerned and therfore saith the text In Hierusalem quoque constituit Iosaphat Leuitas sacerdotes principes familiaruÌ„ ex Israel vt iudicium causam domini Iudicarent habitatoribus eius c. Praecepitque eis c. And Iosaphat appointed in Ierusalem Leuites and Priests and families of Israell that they might giue iudgement and iudge the cause of the Lorde to the inhabitants thereof c. And he coÌ„maunded them saying Thus shall ye do in the feare of the Lord faithfully and with a perfecte harte and in euery cause that shall come vnto you of your brethren that dwell in their Cities betweene bloud and bloud betweene lawe and precepte statutes and iudgements ye shall iudge them and admonish them c. Whervpon saith Lyra Hic ordinatur regimeâ—â— populi in arduis causis c. Here is ordeyned the gouernment of the people in difficult causes which could not well be cutte of without recourse had to Ierusalem according to that which is coÌ„maunded Deuter. 17. Where it is saide if thou shalt perceyue the iudgement before thee to be difficult and doubtfull arise and get thee vp to the place which the Lord shall choose c. And therefore Iosaphat appointed iudges there to determine such difficult matters Wherefore it followeth euery cause which commeth vnto you c. VVheresoeuer the question is if it be of the lawe so
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
ye can not denie it Would God yet ye could blushe and be at the least ashamed of it But why wishe I shame in so shamelesse maiden Priestes if ye can be maydens that neither haue maidenhed nor shamefastnesse in you are ye not those Locustes that S. Iohn saith should come out of the bottomlesse pitte hauing on their heads as it were crownes like vnto golde and their faces were as it had bene the faces of men and they had heare as the heares of women that is to say a shew and countenance of maydenly virginitie hauing notwithstanding tayles like Scorpions Surely Eneas Siluius your Pope called Pius 2. did not for nought so commonly vse this sentence that where the Fathers not without great consideration at the first forbad Priests to marry and to keepe them selues single they should now not without a greater cause suffer them to marrie In the which wordes he not onely noteth the popish Priestes abominations but also that this forbidding of marriage is not of any commaundement of Christ but merely of mens prohibition but such prohibition as were much better reuoked euen by the best learned Popes opinion as the writers of his life do note that euer satte in that sâ—…ate Of the same iudgement was Erasmus who seing the abhominable life of the popish Priests abosing the simple vnder the nâ—…e of virginitie â–ª Muâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª c. Many causes faith he â—…o persuade a change of the lawe of single life in ecclesiasticall persons And when your Sorbonistes of Paris stamped hereat and wrote against him boasting as you de of the excellencie of virginitie shining in holines Erasmus answered them Qui tractâ—…nt c. They that lay those that medle with the diuine mysteries and the administration of the heauenly worde chastitie doth most become them they say true and godly and I allow their iudgement very well but they do consider what the thing it selfe requireth I consider â–ª what the imbeâ—…ilitie of men requireth Many discommodities I graunt might follow if wiues were permitted vnto Priestes but such discommodities as either the Church or the carefulnesse of Princes might easilie with certaine constitutions remedie But now in so corrupt manners of men their most silthie single life hath farre more greuous discommodities Would to God so many as are priests would turne their minde to cleannesse Thus saide Erasmus of your birginly Priesthood not onely with whâ—… but euen with S. Paule we say it is better marry than to liâ—…e in such wicked burnings and viciouse liuing Yea although the partie had neuer so much vowed virginitie before yet if he could not keepe his vowe but burne in lust it were farre better for him to marry and his mariage as S. Angustine saith is perfect matrimonie And not whoredome as you your Papistes slaunderously do terine it â–ª But no meruaile if ye slauÌ„der our Matrimonie that not onely liue your selues in such wicked demeanour he such stalions as the Prophete cried out of that neighed after their neighbours wines rather than with the honest care of Matrimonie ye would haue any of your own since as ye defiled others â—…eddes so ye accoumpt and write of all matrimonie as a polluted state For so saith Durandus and so ye say all Matrimonium tollis puritatem maculat corpus Matrimony taketh away cleannesse and deâ—…ileth the bodie Whereas the Scripture calleth it Cubile impollutum An vndefiled bedde and an honorable estate And yet for simple fornication it is a common question moued among you whether it be a mortall sinne or no. So fauourable ye are to wickednesse and so harde to Matrimonie To liue in Matrimonie is with Papistes to liue after the â—…eash Which what is it els with S. Paule but to liue in sinne to offende God to deserue death Sâ—… secundam carnem vixeritâ—… moriemini If ye liue after the flesh ye shall die Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non pofsunt They that are in the flesh can not please God. And therefore they reason that Priests may not liue in Matrimonie But to sorsweare Matrimonie to liue a single life how soeuer he liue it Si non caste 〈◊〉 cauâ—…e If not chastely yet closely This with Papistes is virginitie this is an excellent life this at Gods handes deserues a speciall rewarde This hypocrisie of fained virginitie this defacing and destling of honorable matrimonie bicause we crie out vpon we are 〈◊〉 Bicause we reprehends your forced single life that compelleth Priestes not to marrie whether they will or no oâ—… whether they haue or no the gifte of virginitie which is not of them selues but a gift and that of God and that a rare gifte as Christ saith and as experience hath proued a most rare gifte among your votaries we are therefore Iouinians Bicause we preferre marriage before such vncleane virginitie as the honorable necessarie and vndefiled meanes to auoide fornication Bicause we say virginitie I meane not Popish virginitie but true virginitie is in it selfe no such vertue as you make it of especiall rewarde but in respect of auoiding some hinderances as also Matrimonie in respects of auoyding greater cuils therefore we are Iouinians and make them both alike But what say we herein that euen your Schoolemen say not â–ª Durandus aforesatde vppon this selfe same question whether virginitie be to be preferred before matrimonie Aliquod est 〈◊〉 c. Something is good in it selfe something accidentally or inrespect of another thing that is bicause it remoueth an euill or inconuenient thing After the firste sorte meate is good to the bodie After the seconde forâ—…e medicine is good VVee must say therefore that virginitie is not good after the first sorte but after the seconde which appeareth three wayes First thus to abstaine from that that is conuenient in it selfe and good can not of it selfe be good But by virginitie we abstaine from Matrimonie which of it selfe is good therefore virginitie of it selfe is not good Iâ—… which woordes omitting his contradiction to his owne tale he maketh in it selfe Matrimonie to be better than Uirginitie But what stande I on Durandus when all your Priestes incurring therein worse contradiction make Matrimonie a Sacrament but Uirginitie they make none If therefore we be louinians be not you louinians to yâ—… rather per syncopen be ye not louinians as good virgin maydens as euer Iupiter was But to supplie that wantes in you ye presse vs with S. Hieroms authoritie To whome though â—… might fully answere ye with the learned censureâ—… of Eramus on that S. Hieromes 〈◊〉 against 〈◊〉 yet for your furder satisfiyng your deâ—…â—… will referre ye to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excellent learned father and euen fellow student with S. Hierome one also that had written against 〈◊〉 Whereby ye may sée how farre S. Hierome ouershotte him selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hâ—… 〈◊〉 saith Ruffinus to Hisrom speaking of Iouinian did first
Concerning Berengarius bicause your slaunder both of him and vs in the controuersie of the sacrament is confuted by the learned trauayles of those that fully haue answered all your cauillations therin I wil now passe it ouer as vn worthie further answere Only I bid you looke to it your selues that charge him with heresie least that reâ—…nfation that your Pope coÌ„pelled him to make sauer not as euen your glosse theron doth warne of a greater heresie than you lay to him Where ye aske vs what we say to the Paulicians that sayde these wordes of Christe Take eaâ—…e this is my body are not to be vnderstanded of his bodie or the bread wine vsed at the celebration of our Lords maundie but of the holy scriptures which the Priest should take at Christes handes and deliuer and distribute to the people I answere let the truth of this obiection to vs be a measure on Gods name to all the rest and as men finde you true or false herein so estéeme you in the other For my part I scarce can tell what wordes I should vse vnto you vnlesse ye will giue me leaue to vse your owne that except ye had a face harder than any horne M. St. yea harder than any yron staple except the deuill at your backe prompted lyes vnto you for these be your owne termes you woulde neuer for very shame charge vs herewith Your selfe knowe saue that ye are hyred as Balaam was to speake cursed slaunders contrary to your conscience that we hold no such opinion but affirme euen the â—…at contrary That those words of Christ take eate this is my bodie are to be vnderstanded both of his bodie and of the bread and wine also Both which you say the Paulicians denie and we confesse and beleue both Only the question on the former part betwene you and vs is of the maner of the bodies presence which we with the fathers say is sacramitall spiritual you say with the Capernaits is natural carnal As for the other part of the bread wine you come a great deale nearer the Paulicians than we The Paulicians say you did say these wordes of Christ take eat this is my body are not to be vnderstaÌ„ded of bread wine And you say also these words are not to be vnderstanded of bread and wine for there is no bread wine there to vnderstand theÌ„ vpoÌ„ Thus herein you the PauliciaÌ„s agrée togither But we say the contrary to you both they are vnderstanded both of bread and wine And so Christ plainly speaketh calling further the wine to be vnderstoode the better contrary to you and the Paulicians the fruite of the Grape and the bread which we breake sayth Saint Paule not the fleshe which we do â—…asticare as you say champe and chawe it gnashing the bones and the bloud running about the teeth as ye caused Berengarius to confesse This is a grosser Heresie than that of the Paulicians and yet are you nearer the Paulicians to than we But what should make you obiect this heresie to vs there is no cause that I can see except ye enuie at this that at the ministration of the Sacrament the holy scriptures are read that the people may vnderstande the true institution of it and celebrate the Lordes death till he come And that in your sacrament of the altar as ye call it there is no holye scriptures read that the people may vnderstande but onely the wordes are mumbled vp to your selues that the people neither heare nor know them And if you say yet be ye not like the Paulicians herein it may well be for ye be rather like Magicians murmuring vp a charme than like Paulicians or any bodie else I know Where next ye demaunde what we say to Claudius and Vigilantius that denyed the inuocation of Saints the blessed Reliques and the vse of lightes and other ceremonies in the Church First to Claudius I aunswere that I can say no more than Alphonsus doth For he reckoneth vp one Claudius and nameth another Iuo Carnotensis cited out of Thomas Walden which Iuo he confesseth he had not séene You father it on an other called Ionas whome also I confesse I haue not séene nor am greatly curious to searche him out For if he denied those thinges or any of them no otherwise than we do it will be hard for you to proue him therefore an Heretike As for Uigilantius opinions on these things are manifest in Saint Hieroms inuectiues and conteyne no Heresie that I can perceyue He misliked greatly and spoke against diuerse abuses betweene whom and saint Hierome thereaboutes fell out foule language Insomuch that diuerse misliked Saint Hiâ—…romes lacke of modestie But letting him chide with his aduersarie let vs go to the matter And first for inuocation The scripture acknowledgeth no kind of inuocation but only of God Laudabilem inuocabo dominum c. I will make sayth Dauid inuocation on the Lorde that is to be prayâ—…ed and I shall be safe from mine enimies In tribulatione mea inuâ—…cabo dominum ad deum meum claâ—…abo c. In my trouble I will make inuocation vpon the Lord and I will crie vnto my god Inuocabit is me â—…iuetis saith god Call vpon me and ye shall liue The Lorde is riche to all that call vpon him sayth S. Paule VVho so euer calleth on the name of the Lord shall be saued Thus sayth the scripture all ouer for the inuocation of god As for any other inuocation the Scripture admitteth none no not of the holy Patriarkes Tu enim pater noster Abrahâ—…m 〈◊〉 nos c. For thou art our father sayth the Prophete Esay as for Abraham knewe not vs and Israell is ignorant of vs thou God art our father and redeemer No doubt Abraham was and is aâ—… good a Saint and much better than many in your Popes Calender of whome some are doubted to be Deuilâ—… in hell that are inuocated for Saints in heauen yea Abraham is called Pater omnium crâ—…dentium The father of all the faythfull and yet in this poynt of inuocation Abraham is no father at all Tu deus pater noster onely God is our father Abraham is not inuocated yea he is by name excepted and that as ignorant of vs â–ª If Abraham then the father of the Saints haue no priuelege yea léese his priuelege of fatherhoode in this behalfe of inuocation what shall we thinke of all the children of Abraham the Saints of God that haue succéeded him that they are to be inuocated or not rather conclude thereon if inuocation be not to be made to Abraham then inuocation is to be made to no Saint but all and onely vnto god And the reason is this God is a iealous God of his glorie and will not communicate any part thereof with any other But the greatest glory that we can giue to God
very many should runne to Hierusalem leauing their wiues and childreÌ„ and thinke that a meruaylous kinde of godlinesse is therein that we should thinke all the constitutions of men to binde vs on paine of hell fire That we should put the chiefest parte of Religion in the choyse of meates that in the Churches no decking should seeme to much but eueÌ„ excesse also should pertaine to the honour of God that to what Ceremonies ye lust very much should be attributed that boyes and wenches for triflings causes so sone as euer they repent them of their estate dispising their parents should runne to MoÌ„kes or Nonnes that no man but a Diuine should talke of Christ or of the holy Scriptures that in Sainctes we should put very much confidence that we should know euill men not to be indeede in the Churche but to be of the Churche that we should beleue the Church to be marueylously trimmed with an exceeding and wonderfull strange varietie of seruices and vestiments that lawyers should be comly appareled that we should kisse the shoe soles and the shoes of saincts that nothing at all of the Popes institutions should be released although great profite should moue it that they that are dying should lay-out obites that mans mortuaries may be made that in them we should repose very much trust other matters of this sorte But Christian godlinesse is placed herein that we should loue God with al our hart and our neighbour as our selues That in Christ we should put the summe of our hope that we should frame our manners our life after the doctrine and exaÌ„ple of him after the rule of the Scriptures FroÌ„ the which whosoeuer calleth vs away by any manner of means they do rather leade vs into the dauÌ„ger of Paganisme Thus much Erasmus so far as he durst so truly that you nor all the world can denie theÌ„ escried the wickednesse of your popish Ceremonies which bicause we refuse on these so good coÌ„sideratioÌ„s ye cal vs Heretikes But whether we in not admitting them or you in vrging maintayning them be rather Heretikes let the Reader discerne Iudge You aske vs next what we say to the Messalians and other Heretikes saying concupiscence as a sinne remayneth in vs after holy Baptisme To your other namelesse Heretikes when ye name the childe we shall tell you what we say vnto them To the Messalians saying sinne remaines in vs after holy Baptisme I answere that euen your selfe do shewe by your continuall lust of lying that concupiscence after holy Baptisme is yet a fowle sinne in you Otherwise ye would not still so lust to lie both on vs the Fathers and the Heretikes also Ye cite S. Augustine to declare the Messalians errour and so he truly doth telling how they say that in Baptisme our sinnes are taken away as a raâ—…er taketh heare away leauing the stoompes vntaken away If ye obiect this vnto vs your selfe beareth witnesse against you that ye sâ—…ander vs For we fréely coufesse that by Baptisme the forgiuenesse of all our sinnes stoomps all past or to come is sealed vp vnto vs So that they are all washt away but as S. Augustine saith of Originall sinne him selfe Non vt non sit sed vt non imputetur Not that it is not but that is nor imputed So that hereby you will make S. Augustine him selfe a Messalian that writeth against the Messalians And I may say to you your iolie porkling Pigghius maketh of S. Augustine litle better accompte Deinde hoc mihi videtur eâ—…identer falsum c. Furthermore saith he this seemeth to me euidently false in that he saith carnall concupiscence the which is in our flesh sighting against the lawe of our minde to be properly and truly sinne in those which are not Baptized The which should be forgiuen in Baptisme that it should be sinne no more and yet not withstanding should remaine the gilt of it being taken away For the which cause he is so offended with S. Augustine that very groynishly he saith Ut autem haec ipsa vis concupiscibilis c. But that this very force of concupiscence should properly be sinne a faulte iniquitie odious of it selfe to God and execrable and placing in his wrath indignation or displeasure it seemeth to me to be spoken most absurdely â–ª nor no lesse absurdly that the selfe same should remaine and not be also abhominable to God if at any time it were so Thus hoggishly someth Pigghius against S. Augustine for making Concupiscence and Original sinne to be verily sinne euen before Baptisme misconstruing S. Augustine in saying it is not sinne after baptisme Where S. August expoundeth himself that it is not sinne then in that respect that it is not imputed but forgiuen where before it was sinne in it selfe and in imputation also being not yet forgiuen Nowe where he sayth this is most absurde to say that it was sinne before and it still remayneth after baptisme the same that it was before baptisme and that it is not abhominable sinne after baptisme if it were so before putting the case it were so before It followeth then that eyther you confesse master Stap. with Saint August that it is still in it selfe sinne after baptisme though not sinne by imputation or else that ye say with Piâ—…hius that it is neyther sinne in it selfe nor by imputation neyther after nor before If ye say with Saint Augustine you incurre that which Pigghius calleth the most absurditie and yet incurre you a greater making Saint Augustine a Messalian to that purposely wrote agaynst them yea and your selfe a Messalian with vs also agréeing with vs therein and yet therein wryting agaynst vs. If ye say with Pigghius thinking to escape absurditie in being agaynst Saint Augustine which notwithstanding is absurditie inough to be agaynst him whom ye pretende to follow you incurre manifest falshood in being against the truth yea and more absurditie to then any yet rehearsed For whether is it more absurde to impute sinne to him that hath none or to forgiue him his sinne that yet in déede hath sinne and of mercie not to impute it to him as though he had not that he hath which is no absurditie at all â–ª For although where sinne is it may be not imputed yea as Dauid sayth this is blessednesse Beatuâ—… vir cuâ—… dominus non imputauit peccatum Blessed is the man whose sinnes the Lorde hath not imputed to him Yet can there not be imputation of sinne where there is in déed no sinne at all as Pigghius most absurdly sayth Groyne you nowe with Pigghius that it is neyther sinne after nor before and we will take Saint Augustines great absurditie on vs to defende that it is in it selfe verie sinne and damnable sinne before baptisme and remayneth still in his nature verie sinne but not damnable bicause it is not imputed after baptisme And now let vs
his free mercie not of our freewill workes So that what we haue now either in will or worke to do any thing acceptable to his most blessed will and pleasure the same in déede is in vs bicause his spirite is in vs but not of vs but of him bringing forth in vs Uelle perficere Both to will and to worke as fruites of his holy spirite within vs And if this agrée with the pestiferous Fables and lies of Simon Magus Marcion and Manes then ye haue mounted faire and well If not had ye mounted farre higher than they write Simon Magus did yea than euer Lucifer did yet as Simon Magus fell downe and brake his necke as Lucifer was throwen downe to hell fire so must you M. Stapleton with shame come downe againe for feare ye be hurled downe with them Now if as ye rashly mounted vp ye will orderly come downe through out all ages as it were by steppes ye may descende by this doctrine euen to your owne time againe But I pray you M. Stapleton in your comming downe let Pelagius be your host What maÌ„ drinke with him at least one free draught of his erroneous doctrine He is a free companion and will let ye drinke at will freely and he hath pleasannt licour well swéetned with pure naturall drugges and brewed with strong spices of your owne habilitie perfection and merites delectable to the palace of mans selfeloue But swéete soppes must haue sowre sawce they say â–ª This pleasaunt errour is but a sugred poyson and as ill on the other parte as Sâ—…noÌ„ Magus fatall necessitie was if not a great deale worse But ye will come neere vs and touche ye say the very foundation and well spring of this your newe Gospell which altogither is grounded vpon Iustification without good workes In that also ye drawe very nighe to the sayde Simon Magus Do we drawe nighe him M. St God sende grace you draw not with him and that many of your works yea euen of your good works and suche as ye ascribe iustification vnto be not suche as Simon Magus and his disciples workes were We grounde not vpon iustification without good workes you grounde vpon lyes without good consciences that thus do slaunder vs Iustification in déede may well be without your good workes yea it can not be with them The good workes that God commaundeth iustification bringeth foorth and therfore it can not be without them bicause they be the necessarie fruites of Iustification we seuer not them therfore from Iustification but discerne them from the Acte of God in iustifying Not to make our selues our owne iustifiers in whole or in parte We discerne theÌ„ from the causes of our iustification and ascribe the causes to the loue fauor and mercies of God the father for Christ his sonnes sake by the sanctification of his holy spirite We discerne our workes from the merite and deserte of iustification muche more from the merite of our saluation and say it is onely wrought by his merites and giuen to vs gratis freely All haue sinned sayth S. Paule and wante the glory of God but they are iustified freely by his grace through the redemption which is in Iesu Christ whom God hath appoynted to be the reconciliatioÌ„ through fayth by his bloud comming betweene Which worde freely is contrary to merite and excludeth it as S. Paule reasoneth Sâ—… ex gratia iam non ex operibus alioquin gratia non est gratia If it come of grace then commeth it not of workes otherwyse grace is not grace That is to say it is not frée fauour but bound fauour as deserued or bought As Barnard said NoÌ„ est quo gratia intreâ—… vbi iam merituÌ„ occupauit VVhere merite hath taken vp the rowme there is no place for grace to enter And so S. Aug Haec est electio gratia c. This is the electioÌ„ of grace bicause all good merites of man are preuented For if it were giuen by any good merites then were it not giuen free but rendred as ought And by this meanes it is not by a true name called grace where reward is As the same Apostle sayth it is not imputed according to grace but according to duetie but if that it be true grace that is to saye freely giuen it findeth nought in man to whom it may be worthily owing Infinite are the places that may be cited out of the fathers and many are by others at large collected in this behalfe yea I haue shewed you Thomas his iudgement alredy therin who is the prince of al your scholemeÌ„ For merite of works therfore in iustification we are of S. Paules minde Arbitramur hominem iustificari fide absque operibus legis we suppose that man is iustified by fayth without the works of the law Thus in the poynt of iustification workes are excluded as he sayde immediately before VVhere is then thy boasting it is excluded By what lawe of workes no but by the lawe of fayth Althoughe our workes are not at all excluded in respect of the fruites of those that are already iustified For they are ipsius factura c. His workemanshippe created in Iesu Christ in good workes which God hath prepared that we shoulde walke in them But before this workemanshippe of Iustification we were but very enimies And therefore as sainct Augustine saith Quae merita bona tuÌ„c habere poter amus quando Deum non diligebamus VVhat good merites could we then haue when as yet we loued not God VVithout fayth it is impossible to please god And what soeuer is not of fayth is sinne Nowe this fayth which lykewise is not of vs but is the gifte of God we discerne from workes bicause it hath relation to the onely mercies of God promised in Christ vnto vs Which promises fayth catching holde vpon is the only meanes and instrumeÌ„t that God hath giuen vs to receiue the frée offer of his grace and to applie to vs forgiuenesse of our sinnes And so stedfastly beléening the same we are iustified by God onely as the efficient and actiue worker by Christ onely as the formall cause in whome our righteousnesse consisteth and by faythe onely as the instrument giuen of God vnto vs wherby we receiue the same And this sayth S Paule exemplifying it by Abraham Quid enim dicit scriptura For what sayth the scripture Abraham beleeued God and it vvas imputed to hym for righteousnesse But to him that worketh rewarde is not imputed according to grace but according to duetie But vnto him that worketh not but beleeueth in him that iustifieth the vvycked his faythe is imputed to righteousnesse according to the purpose of the grace of God. And this is that we say fayth onely iustifieth that is fayth is the onely eye that séeth the onely hande that catcheth holde vpon the onely meanes whereby we receiue the onely instrument wherewith we applye to our selues
the prince caÌ„ not iudge much lesse are by him punishable As are all such crimes which properly belong to the court of conscience to weâ—…e misbelefe in God mistrust in his mercie contempt of his coÌ„mandements presumption of our selues incredulitie and such like VVhich all are offences against the first table that is against the loue that we owe to god Contrarywise true beleefe confidence in God the feare of God and such like are the vertues of the first table and of these Melancthon truly saith Haec sunt opera prime tabulae These are the vertues of the first table All this M. St. that ye speake is beside the question concerning such crimes or vertues of the first table properly belonging to the courte of Conscience What néede ye stande so long descanting on the first table as though in the secoÌ„d table many such vices were not lurking in the hartâ—… of maÌ„ for which the Prince also can make no lawe For he can not compel his subiects to beare no hate nor wrath in their hartes nor to lust or desire in their harts vnlawfully their neighboures wife and goodes nor to loue another as them selues All which are of the second table properly also belonging to the court of conscience You might as well haue added these of the second as the other of the first table but then had your falshood bene espied going aboute by this meanes to reuoke all your graunt for the first table that because the Prince cannot punish such inwarde and peculiar breaches therefore he can not iudge vpon the doctrine and open causes and so ye simply conclude The punishing correcting or iudging of these appertaine nothing to the auctoritie of the Prince or to any his lawes but onely are iudged corrected and punished by the speciall sworde of excommunicatioÌ„ of binding of sinnes and enbarring the vse of holy Sacramentes by the order and auctoritie of the Priest onely and spirituall Magistrate Ye might M. St. as well conclude this of the second table also and quite debar the Prince of all dealing in either table bicause the inwarde action of either table the Prince can not punish so defeate all your graunt which before ye confessed that the furthering or punishing for both the tables as well of the first as of the second belongeth to the Princes aucthoritie Quod ad externam disciplinam mores attinet So far as belongeth to outwarde discipline and manners And now ye say the quite contrary he can not punishe nor Iudge the offences of the first table if ye meane â–ª the open offences thereof he can do it by your own limitacion Quod ad externam disciplinam mores attinet And so you make a fallacion à secundum quid ad simpliciter except ye meane as your reason pretendeth properly as yet belonging to the courte of conscience betwene God him Then whether it be in the first or in the second table the Prince in déede can not iudge or punish the secrete offence no nor properly the minister but so God alone The minister doth but pronouÌ„ce Gods sentence and the Magistrate punisheth it be it in the first or secoÌ„d table come it once to the breach of external â—…tes discipline as your selfe do limite their aucthoritie there in haue promised to agrée with Caluin and Melancthon But as in this your first parte ye haue graunted so much as suffiseth all the matter besides the referring your selfe to Caluins and Melancthons iudgement so in your second parte ye wrest and wrangle about your graunt and labour to proue contradiction in theÌ„ though in déede you can finde none and yet would ye looke on your selfe ye should finde an heape of fowle manifest contradictions besides those foresaide euen in this present chapter Againe say you whereas the chiefe vertue of the first table is to beleeue in God to know him and to haue the true faith of him and in him in Externall regiment as to punish open blasphemie to make lawes against Heretikes to honour and maintayne the true seruice of God Princes especially Christians ought to furder aide and mayntaine the same but to iudge of it and to determine which is the true faith in God how and after what manner he ought to be serued what doctrine ought to be published in that behalfe the Prince hath no aucthoritie or power at all Sée how ye first pinche and wrest your former graunt M. Stapl. and inconclusion take it quite away Before ye saide Christian Princes had the regiment in externall matters now ye come in with externall regiment Right now the Prince had authoritie to further and punish ouer the one table as well as the other and now he cannot determine so much as which table is which Right now he had authoritie Quoad externos mores as much as belongeth to externall manners now he must not iudge how or after what manner God ought to be serued Right now he had Externam disciplinam the outward discipline now to know what doctrine or discipline ought to be published he hath no authoritie or power at all This géere hangeth trimly togither and haue we not gotten a faire graunt we thought as the Papistes had wont to say we had God in the Ambry but the Diuell I see was in the Horologe Now after he hath renoked his graunt he beginneth to quarrell with the Protestants with whome before he said he and all his felowship would agrée and first he beginneth to proue contradiction in Melancthon His argument is thus Melancthon saith that Princes ought to looke vnto true doctrine to correct the Churches when the Bishops falle of their dutie yea and to consider the doctrine it selfe Againe the same Melancthon saith they must make no newe doctrines in the Churche neither institute any worships Ergo Melancthon either recanteth as better aduised or writeth playne contraries to him selfe How hath malice blinded you M St can ye sée no lesser difference than contrarie betwéene looking to the olde and coynyng newe betwéene considering and instituting worships Surely then can ye neuer consider nor well looke vnto not the truth but euen your owne follie that dreame of recanting and contradictions in other hauing your selfe scarse written a line before wherein so plainly ye contraried your owne wordes in recanting your former graunt Thus as in vaine ye séeke for coÌ„tradiction in MelaÌ„cthoÌ„s wordes so as fondly do ye conclude thereon your purpose MelaÌ„cthon would not haue Princes make new doctrines and worships of God nor haue the functions of both Magistrates spirituall and temporall to be confounded Ergo he taketh away all auctoritie from Princes in iudging and determining of doctrine But what dealing call ye this M. St that in translating Melancthons sentences ye both falsely wrest them addâ—… of your own vnto them Where Melancthon saith Nec instituant cultus Neither let them institute or appoynt of new any worshipping
againe to common furder of Constantines doings I pray ye do not as hitherto ye haue done in other answears telling the reader ye will specifie it more at large in such a place hereafter when ye come to the answering of that place ye tell him againe that ye specified that more at large before and so sende your Reader from hence thither and from thence againe hither to trotte vp and down he satisfied in neither place Howbeit this is a good readie answere for you for by this shift one answere serueth both places Neuerthelesse what néede any more large specifying either hers or there For ye tell vs roundly to make a shorte tale of the matter that all is to shorte Neither this say you â–ª that is here alleaged neither al the residue which ye reherse of Constantine with whose doings ye furnish hereafter six ful leaues caÌ„ import this superioritie This is in déede a round answere and a shorte and if it were withall as true â–ª ye néede not M. Stapleton promise to specifiâ—… it more at large hereafter but belike ye thought this answere was to short and therefore ye do well to referre the Bishop furder As for the Bishops present allegation out of Constantine fully importeth this superioritie that the ministerie of the Prince hath to set forth Ecclesiasticall causes so well as Temporall or rather much more in so muche as it is the Princes best ministerie to set forth by his decrees the true religion the lawe of God and the most holy faith and to remoue and punish all euils that trouble the worlde such as chiefly are errours Heresies Schismes superstitioÌ„s abuses false or wicked pastors c. all which is euident by Constantines owne auouching And I pray you M. St. marke all these things a little more aduisedly tell me then what wanteth of the issue in question betwene these parties that the Prince hath supreme gouernment so well in Ecclesiasticall causes as in Temporall And whether these be facings without proufe or halfe proufe in the world as ye say or rather these be not your to to impudent facings and bracings without any proufe or half proufe or any iote of proufe in the world but say only it importeth it not neither tel â–ª how nor why and say it is here alleaged out of place and ye will specifie it there more aâ—… large and so shift it off here vnanswered and there say here ye haue answered to it and neither here nor there meddle furder withit Doth this trow you importe a full sufficient answere The. 24. Diuision WHereas the Bishop on S. Paules sentence declared before out of Eusebius commending Constantine that the Princes best ministerie consisteth in setting forth all true Religion and abolishing all false doctrine and errours in this Diuision he confirmeth the same with the iudgement of another later Ecclesiasticall historier Nicephorus whom the Papists set out for Catholike Comparing in these things these two Emperours the one with the other Paleologus with Constantine commending this Emperour of Gréece aboue al other things for this his rule and dealing in reforming religion as did Constantine For which cause as Constantine called it his best ministerie so Nicephorus calleth it a vertue among all other belonging to an Emperour and most seemely for his imperiall dignitie which what it is and wherein this ministerie doth chiefly consist the Bishop gathereth togither diuerse sentences out of the Preface of Nicephorus to the Emperour in his commendation for his zeale his defence his chiefe authoritie his gouernaunce his restoring his clensing his establishing his setting forth of true religion and pulling downe the contrarie whereby Nicephorus protesting that he speaketh nothing for fanor or statterie declareth his iudgement to agrée with Eusebius on Saint Paules sentence that the Princes supreme gouernment in these things is his best ministerie and most properly belonging to hys charge and office To this allegation of Nicephorus Master Stapleton deuideth his Counterblast into two windes The former blast procéedeth altogither out of his stinking breath of rayling Rhetorike to deface not onely the Bishop his aduersarie the Bishop of Sarum and the Homelies set forth agaynst Idolatrie chalenging them for lyes and forgeries but also to deface the authoritie of Nicephorus and the Emperour whome he affyrmeth to be wicked and wretched Heretikes In the other blast admitting the authoritie of Nicephorus he bloweth as fast to ouercome the force of the Bishops allegations as insufficient to proue hys purpose In his first part to get the more credite for plaine and true dealing with his Reader and to blemish the Bishop with suspition of cloked dissembling he promiseth saying But first we will dissipate and discusse the mist that master Horne hath cast before thine eyes where indéede none was for the Bishop most clearely set downe the wordes of Nicephorus Master Stapleton himselfe of purpose rayseth a miste whereby not onely he dimmeth the Readers eyes but also wandreth in his owne mist vp and downe slunâ—…bling at many impertinent matters and al besides the purpose For whereto else serueth all that he discourseth about the Greâ—…ians Heresie of the holy Ghostes procéeding or the Councell of Lions of Michaell Paleâ—…logus that agréed with the Latins therein of the â—…recians reuolt of the malicious spite of the Gréeke Bishoppes of the denying Michaell his buriall what néede all these declarations Which if the Bishop had set forth as he had nothing thereby opened the matter so had he giuen occasion to Master Stapleton of iust reproouing him for straying of purpose from the marke and dalâ—…ying in vayne circumstaunces And nowe that he hath not stoode in anye suche long 〈◊〉 and fodings off of the matter master Stapleton sayeth he casteth mistes And thus which way soeuer the Bishop take â–ª Master Stapleton woulde finde an occasion to picke a quarrell And pretending to dissipate and discusâ—…e a myste in the fayre and cleare Sunne shyne hée rayseth suche a smoke that blundering foorth he wotteth not well whether he stâ—…uibleth hee can not tell on whome and falleth into a bitter innectiue at the authour of the Homelie â–ª agaynst Idolatrie onely vpon this occasion that he chaunced on the name of Michaell Paleologus Wherein he playeth as I heard once of a â—…opishe Priest in Cambrige that in his Sermon naming Abraham in his discourse to dissipate and discusse all mystes as he pretended but most likely to stretche out his matter beganne to tell what manner a man Abraham was and hauing named his sonne beganne to tell of Isaac and so of Iacob and on a rowe of all the twelue Patriarkes and of Egypte of the lande of promiss of the wildernesse and waded so farre that he had quyte loste himselfe in the Wildernesse and his theame be beganne withall After whiche sorte fareth Master Stapleton bicause the Bishoppe mentioned Michaell Paleologus herevppon he entreth into an exclamation agaynste the Authour of the
And what if it did not necessarily if it did it what is here the necessitie to or fro the matter and what if it did some necessariliâ—… though not all Yet ye see here is somwhat gotten to helpe the matter for warde Ye graunt this doing argueth a supremacie in some Ecclesiaâ—…call causes although not necessarilie But stâ—…pping backe againe ye â–ª say And 〈◊〉 in no 〈◊〉 Eccâ—…siasticall concerning the 〈◊〉 discussing and determinâ—…cion of the same Well and what if this also were graunted you that concerning the finall discussing and determination he had supremacie in no cause ecclesiasticall yet might it followe that in all other poynts except the finall discussing and determination he had the supremacie Verily say you waxing somewhat bolder without any perchance it is most playnly and certaynly true it dothe not And howe proue you this M. Stap. For say you euen in this schâ—…maticall councell and hereticall synagoge the Byshops played the chiefe part â–ª and they gaue the finall thoughé a wrong and wicked iudgement And verily then without any perchaunce either your selfe do make a foule lye or else bothe in calling the Councell and giuing the finall sentence also the Prince had the superioritie For whatsoeuer ye deniâ—… héere not 16 lynes before ye graâ—…nted that he â—…othe summoned the Councell and also that he and they anulled and reuoked that hys father had done at the Councell at Lions Lo heere in the annulling and reuoking which was the finall discussing and determination â–ª ye bothe ioyne hiâ—… with them and place him before them And thuâ—… vnawares whyle ye speake agaynst the truthe ye wotte not what or care not howe ye wrappe your selfe in contradictions and make your selfe a lyer Your seconde parcell is onely agaynst the order of the sentences collected by the Byshop asking him what honor he hath got for al his craâ—…tie cooping or cunning â–ª and smoth â—…oyning combining and incorporating a number of Nicephorus sentences togither For all these wordes you vse to outscoffe the matâ—…er and quarell at the placing of them vnorderly But all this whyle ye answere not one worde to any one worde in them and yet set you downe your marginall note with a solemne outâ—…rie O what a craftie Cooper and smothe Ioyner is master Horne But sée how handsomely it falleth out and how orderly euen where ye talke of order â–ª For where ye 〈◊〉 haue set downe this your marginall exclamation at the comming to his second parte saying what honor haue ye go for all your craftie cooping c. Ye set it downe for haste in the matter before answered concerning the schismaticall Councel and the bishops dealing therin doing as the story telleth of Doctor Shawe in his sermon of the prayse of king Richarde the thirde that or euer the king was come to the sermon had already sayde his parte that he should haue sayde at his comming and so with shame inough out of place and out of time repeated the same But you may say thankes be to God inke and paper can not blushe and although I thinke you can do as little your self yet a Gods name let it passe be it but the Printers misplacing of the note although it fell out ill fauorâ—…dly to light euen there where ye reprehende the Byshop for ill ioyning togither of his senteÌ„ces and your booke ioyneth your marginal notes all besides your matter Now hauing thus stoode trifling in reprehending the order of the bishops collection of Nicephorus sentences bicause he setteth them downe togither béeing not so set togither but here there dispersed in the great long Preface of Nicephorus where the Reader now at the length should looke that M. Stap. should come to answere some poynt materiall of all the bishops allegations as though he had fully answered them all hauing sayde not so much as Buffe vnto any one sentence alleaged he repeateth his former vaunt full lustily saying What honor haue you I say wonne by this or by the whole thing it self little or nothing furthering your cause and yet otherwise playne schismaticall and hereticall For the which your handsome and holy dealing the author of the foresaide Homilie and you yea M. Iewell too are worthy exceeding thanks Is not héere a proper answere thus to iest out the matter with scoffes crakes raylings Surely M. St. what honor soeuer the bishop hath wonne by this or not wonne as he looketh for none at your haÌ„ds your thaÌ„ks ye may reserue for your friends you win much shame to your selfe your cause thus shamefully to â—…umble vp the matter all onely with out facing it Ye say the B. hath patched vp a number of Nicephorus sentences togither Why do ye not â—…ip a sunder those patches ' If he hath vsed craftie cooping cunning smoothe ioyning combining and incorporating it were your part to vnhoope theÌ„ to dissolue theÌ„ to answere them Tush say you what néede that they are al little or nothing furthering your cause Now M. Sta I thinke then they might be the easelier answered not so to skip ouer them like whip Sir Iohn at his morrow Masie But til you answere something to theÌ„ an vpright iudge will déeme them much to further our cause Although it is somewhat that ye grauÌ„t that yet a litle they further our cause â—… I think by that the reader hath wayed theÌ„ better he shal sée they so hinder your cause that ye thought it the best way to let them all alone And that the Reader may the better beholde bothe your dealing and the Byshops allegations so iudge how much or howe little they further the matter and whether they might haue bene thought worthy the answering as the Byshoppe hathe gathered them so will I set them downe Who hath glorified God more and shewed more feruent zeale sayth Nicephorus to the Emperour towardes him in pure religion without fayning than thou hast done Who hath with suche feruent zeale sought after the most sincere fayth muche indaungered or clensed agayne the holy table When thou sawest our true religion brought into perill with newe deuises brought in by counterfeite and naughtie doctrines thou diddest defende it moste paynefully and wisely thou diddest shewe thy selfe to be the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and staye in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to faynte and to perishe as it were with shipwracke Thou arte the guyde of the profession of our fayth Thou haste restored the Catholike and vniuersall Church beeing troubled with new matters or opinions to the olde state Thou hast banished from the Church all vnlawfull and impure doctrine Thou hast clensed agayne with the worde of truthe the Temple from choppers and chaungers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof Thou haste bene set on fyre with a godly zeale for the diuine Table Thou haste established the doctrine Thou haste made constitutions for the same Thou haste entrenched the true religion with
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
his Legates â–ª Forsoothe when he dothe it then it is a principall matter it argueth his supremacie and therefore none can do it but he But nowe when examples are founde and alleaged that Christian Princes had wonte to doe it Ergo They were supreme then belike therein Nay then it argueth no supremacie then it is no principal matter nor any eccl. matter at al. Thus you play mockhalliday with vs and boe péepe as though we were children it is and is not When the Pope dothe it then it argueth a supremacie when the Prince dothe it then it argueth none And why so for sooth then the case is altered Thus do you dally out the matter and when any substantiall proufe is brought agaynst you either ye giue it suche a mocke as this or leape cleane ouer it as though ye sawe it not or in stéede of answere to that that is propounded propounde your selfe an other allegation which is clauâ—…m clauo pellere to driue out one nayle by another For to the allegation out of the Emperours Theodosius and Ualentinianus Epistle ye answere nothing but set a péece of another letter of Ualentinian to Theodosius in the téethe of it VVe sayth Valentinian to the Emperour Theodosius say you ought to defende the fayth which we receyued of our auncestors with all competent deuotion and in this our tyme preserue vnblemished the worthy reuerence due to the blessed Apostle sainct Peter so that the moste blessed Bishop of the Citie of Rome to whome antiquitie hath giuen the principalitie of Priesthoode aboue all other may O moste blessed father and honorable Emperour haue place and libertie to giue iudgement in suche matters as concerne fayth and Priestes And for this cause the bishop of CoÌ„stantinople hathe according to solemne order of Councels by his Libel appealed vnto him And this is writteÌ„ M. Horne to Theodosius him selfe by a coÌ„mon letter of Valentinian And the Empresses Placidia Eudoxia which Placidia writeth also a particular letter to hir said sonne Theodosius and altogither in the same sense Héere ye clap vp a marginall note The Popes supremacie Proued by the Emperour Valentinian alleaged by M. Horne And héere agayne full triumphantly ye crie out HerkeÌ„ good M. Horne giue good aduertisemeÌ„t I walk not and wander as ye do here alleaging this Emperour in an obscure generalitie wherof cannot be enforced any particularitie of the principall question I go to worke with you playnly truely and particularly I shewe you by your owne Emperour by playne words the Popes supremacie the practise withall of appeales froÌ„ Constantinople to Rome Héere is a ioly face of this matter M. St. But yet héere is not one worde to answere the bishops allegation but to coÌ„mend your owne that ye set against it and so thinke ye answere it bicause it is of the same Emperour Ualentinian whom the bishop alleaged But such answere as it is sithe ye can make no other we muste take it or none at your handes Neuerthelesse since ye so crake that ye walke not and wander not in obscure generalities but go playnly and particulerly to worke if ye ment as ye say how chaunce ye open not any of the necessary particuler circumstances of the matter whervpon the Emperour wrote whiche might haue made this matter plaine would haue shewed what and wherin they coÌ„mended the B. of Rome and what authoritie belonged to the Emperour Yea if you had but set downe a little more largely the selfe same Epistles that ye cite the matter had beene a great deale more cleare Ye say also ye go truely to worke and yet you falsly translate euen those very words that ye cyte and so cutte them off ere ye come to the periode that that which shoulde haue shewed the matter to haue béene about a particular controuersie of the fayth then risâ—…n might séeme to be generally spoken of all controuersies And therfore ye leaue out these wordes For the controuersie of the faith that is sprong vp And where the wordes of your allegation are Locum habeat ac facultatâ—…m de fide sacerdotibus iudicare that he may haue place and leaue or facultie to iudge of the fayth and of the Priests you captiously and falsly translate it that he may haue place and libertie to giue iudgement in suche matters as concerne fayth and Priestes This subtile translation in generall ye vse to make it appeare that the Bishop of Rome hath a generall authoritie to be the chiefe Iudge to decide all doubtes in matters of fayth and to be the chiefe Iudge of all Priestes where your texte inferreth no suche thing Likewise where the Emperour sayth of the Bishop of the Citie of Rome to whome antiquitie hath yeelded the principalitie of Priesthoode aboue all others ye conclude that by playne wordes is shewed the Popes supremacie and so sette vp your Marginall note The Popes supremacie proued by the Emperour Valentinian Where in your letter are no suche playne wordes of supremacie nor any proufe thereof at all Do you thinke that the Emperour acknowledged that supremacie which your Pope nowe chalengeth and vsurpeth not onely ouer all Priestes but ouer all Kinges and Emperours also No master Stapleton it is euident by the dealing of these Emperours and that euen in this matter that the Pope â—…ad no suche supremacie but the Emperour dyd those thinges then that your Pope dothe clayme nowe as further shall appeare in the proper treatise therof Your Pope nowe woulde be lothe to be suche an humble Lâ—… and fall downe to the Egles féete as the Pope dyd then to the Emperour whiche nowe ye make the Emperour doe to the Popes féete For why ye may â—…ay â—…empora mutantur nos mutamur in illis the tymes are changed and we are changed in them All the playne wordes and proues ye crake of for this supremacie are these that the Emperour sayth antiquitie gaue hym the principalitie of Priesthoode But there is a greate difference betwéene the principalitie of Priesthoode and supreme head or chiefe gouernour of Priesthoode or that all Priesthoode is deriued out of the Popes Priesthoode as diuers of your wryters affirme that Christe made Peter onely a Priest and all the other Apostles had their Priesthoode from him and so all other from the Bishop of Rome whome they call hys Successoure But as they erre in the office of Priesthoode wherof God willing we shall speake hereafter so whatsoeuer the office of their Priesthood was their saying is manyfest â—…alse For if Peter were a man as he confessed hym selfe to be S. Paule sayth he had not hys authoritie of men but immediatly of God and Peter gaue him nothing neither yet Iames nor Iohn And here if I might spurre you a question bicause master Heskins setteth oute his Parliament so solemnelie before his boke in pictures for the nonce making s. Iames the first that sayde Masse wherin he followeth the coÌ„mon opinion
of the Papistes I demaunde if Peter was made the first priest al other froÌ„ him how s. Iames could say the first masse that was said was Peter made Priest without singing or saying his first masse or any masse at al then belike Peter was no masse 〈◊〉 priest 〈◊〉 pope hath not hâ—… principalitie of priesthood froÌ„ Peter nor any priesthod at all from him for Peters was no massing Priesthoode suche as the Popes is and pretendeth to be the principall of that order But at your leysure answere this onely nowe I note that there is a great difference betwéene the principalitie of Priesthoode and the supremacie of all the Churche of Christe which is your conclusion and that that your Pope chalengeth But the Emperours words héere do nothing proue it And yet suche principalitie or excellencie of Priesthoode as it was it neither came from God nor from Peter for any thing that either is playnely alleaged or proued héere but rather the playne wordes are to the contrarie that this principalitie was yéelded and giuen to the Bishop of the Citie of Rome by men for so sayth the Emperour antiquit as contulit antiquitie gaue it Béeing partly moued with the opinion that Peter was bishop there and partly for that Rome was the auncient and moste famous Citie of the Empire as appeareth in the nexte Epistle of Placidia by you mentioned who calleth it Ciuitatem antiquam the auncient Citie and the Citie that is the Lady of all the Emperours Cities And therefore it became them to conserue the reuerence therof For which considerations that antiquitie gaue to it the principalitie and to the bishop therof Which principalitie of priesthoode or bishophâ—… was not aboue but vnder the principalitie of the Emperours estate as appeareth euen by these Epistles cited by you For first in the Epistle whereout ye take your allegation Ualentinianus telleth howe when he came to Rome I was sayth he bothe of the Romane Bishop and also of other that were with him gathered togither out of diuers prouinces entreated to write to your mildnesse saith Ualentinian to Theodosius of the fayth which beeing the preseruer of all faythfull soules is sayd to be troubled which fayth beeing deliuered vs froÌ„ our Elders we ought to defend with al coÌ„peteÌ„t deuotioÌ„ in our times to coÌ„serue vnblemished the dignitie of the reuerence proper to the blessed Apostle Peter so that the most blessed B. of the citie of Rome to whom antiquitie hath giuen a principalitie of Priesthood aboue all others may O most blessed Lorde Father and honorable Emperour haue place and facultie to iudge of the faith of the Priests and for this cause according to the solemnitie of Councels the Bishop of Constantinople hath appealed to him by his Libels for the contention that is sprong vp of the faith to him therefore requesting and adiuring me by our common sauing health I denied not to grauÌ„t thus much as to moue my petition to your mildenesse that the foresaid Priest meaning the Bishop of Rome all the other Priestes being also gathered togither through all the worlde within Italy all other former iudgement set aside may with diligent triall searching all the matter that is in controuersie from the beginning giue such sentence thereon as the faith and the reason of the true diuinitie shall require For in our times the frowardnesse of multitudes ought not to preuayle against religion since hitherto the faith hath bene conserued stedfast And to the more perfect instruction of your worthinesse we haue also directed the gestes whereby your godlinesse may know the desires and outcries of them all Thus farre the Epistle Which if ye had withall sette downe it wold haue dashed your Marginall note and conclusion of the Popes supremacie It would haue shewed that this principalitie of priesthoode was so vnder the Princes principalitie that the Pope was faine to labour to Ualeâ—…tinian and the Empresses also to write to Theodosius that he might haue place leaue to iudge the matter And that the place of iudging it might be in Italie and the Bishop of Rome might giue sentence not as he him selfe should please but conditionally as the truth should require and that thus he would admit the Bishop of Constantinoples appeale to take place and so he sendeth all the gestes of the matter for the Emperour to peruse and know them and to graunt their petitions and desires In all whiche things though there were a principalitie of the Priestes and Bishops and chiefly of the Bishop of the chiefe emperiall Citie olde Rome so farre as appertayneth to the debating discussing and iudging the doubtes in controuersie yet so farre as appertayneth to the licencing thereto the commaunding directing ordering setting out and maintayning euen of the same Synodicall iudgements of the Bishop of Rome or any other the supreme principalitie belonged to the Emperours And this appeareth yet furder by the other Epistles that ye mention In the next Epistle of the Empresse Placidia to Theodosius the Emperour hir Sonne for the Bishops of Rome and of Constantinople after she hath shewed with what teares the Bishop of Rome moued hir to write she sheweth how all thinges were done vnorderly at Ephesus against Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople bicause sayeth she he sent a libell to the Apostolicall seate and to all the Bishops of these parties by those which were in the Councell directed from the moste Reuerende Bishop of Rome VVho are accustomed O moste holy Lorde my Sonne and Reuerent Emperour to be put according to the Decrees of Nicene Councell and for this cause let your mildenesse withstanding so great troubles commaunde the truth of the Religion of the Catholike faith to be kepte vndefiled And so ascribing a principall prerogatiue to the Bishop of Rome she desireth the Emperor that the iudgement of the matter may be sent ouer to him Which sheweth that the Bishop of Romes principalitie was vnderneath the Emperours Likewise in the next Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius after she hath praysed the Emperour saying It is knowne vnto all men that your mildenesse hath a care and earnest heedefulnesse of Christians and of the Catholike faith in so much that you would commaunde nothing at all to be done to the iniurie of it And after she hath shewed how the Bishop of Rome besought hir in the foresaide matter to derect hir letters to the Emperour saluting you sayth she I desire right that your tranquilitie would vouchsafe to haue care to the letters and those things that are ill done ye would commaunde them to be amended vntill that all things that also already are determined be altogither reuoked the cause of the faith and Christian religion that is moued in a Councell gathered togither in the partes of Italy may be fetched out For it is written that all this contention raysed commeth from hence that the Bishop Flauianus might be remoued from the Ecclesiasticall dealings Thus do these
the royall power hath done it submitteth it selfe to the true power ecclesiasticall as not hauing a superioritie of all ecclesiasticall matters to exercise or doe them but hauing a superioritie in all ecclesiastical matters to ouersée them rightly don and exercised And this distinction of of and In M. Sanders him selfe vsed immediatly before and vseth againe in the fourth chapter folowing which also is a common distinction and therfore I maye well vse it bycause it not onely expresseth the manner of the Princes Supremacie but also detecteth the Papistes common fallatiâ—…n as thoughe by the name of Supreme gouernour the Queenes Maiestie tooke vppon hir the gouernement Ecclesiasticall when shée onely taketh vpon hir that is due vnto hir a gouernement in causes ecclesiasticall Secondly I answere that although there be no comparison betwene these two powers yet is the royall power farre aboue that which here he makes it that nothing belonging to this power hath bâ—…n reuealed from heauen pertaining to eternal saluation hid in Christ but only to matters that conserue peace among men springing of the seedes of nature either for profite or necessitie Herein he saith in dede as St. doth but this is no lesse manifest vntruth than shamefull slauÌ„der to all christian princes estates The Scripture is euident to the contrarie as well in Gods institution of the royall power as in all the examples of godly Princes commended in the Scripture not so much for their worldly policie Iustice peace and naturall giftes as for matters pertaining to eternall saluation both hidde in Christe and reuealed in Christe also And let these things sayth he be spoken for the originall of either power The seconde point of difference he maketh in the vse and office saying But so farre as belongeth to the vse and office of those thynges wee knovve that distinction to bee obserued in them that he which had the full power ecclesiasticall might also haue had in gouernyng the people of God vvithoute any especiall consecration as happened in Noe in Melchizedech in Abraham in Moyses in Helie and in Samuel and in the Machabees Howebeit it was not onlyke sorte true that hee vvhiche eyther by the Lawe of Nations oâ—… the Ciuil was kyng whiche is the firste degree of honour in this kynde shoulde streightway haue also the power Ecclesiasticall except that right had ben giuen vnto him by especiall consecration Yée confonnde your owne tale Maister Saunders and speake contraries Before ye sayde speakyng of the Ciuil power of faythfull Kinges Christus talem in sui regni Ministris esse noluerit Christe in the Ministers of his his kingdome woulde haue no suche power Now ye say He that hadde the one power had vvithout any especiall consecration the other also And hereto yée â—…ite these holye Fathers Noe Melchizedech Abraham Moyses Hâ—…lie Samuel and the Machabees Were none of these Ministers in the kingdome of Chryste Besydes this ye confoâ—…nde your distinction heaping vp confusedly these wytnesses of the whych but one serueth proprely to the purpose of the former part of youre distinction for the Priestes to haue had the Ciuil power â—…nd that is Helie to whome proprely the Ecclesiasticall power belonged being the high Priest and likewise had the Ciuil power béeing the Iudge also But yet this was not without some especiall consecration or appoyntment of God thervnto For else eyther it had ben ordinarie to his predecessours or he had vsurped it sithe none was Iudge among the Israelites all the whyle that the Ciuil power was directed by that kinde of gouernement but those that were by especiall calling appointed of God thereto As for the other were of dyuerse tymes and sortes The holye Patriarkes Noe Melchizedech and Abraham hadde I graunte also bothe powers Ecclesiasticall and Ciuil But at that tyme before the lawe when bothe estates pertayned to them by their birthrighte And this maketh rather for the Ciuill magistrate to haue had the ecclesiastical power than for the Ecclesiastical magistrate to haue had the ciuill power For the gouernment descending to them by reason of their birthright was a naturall or ciuill gouernment as your selfe before confessed saying Eâ—…enim vt pater infilium c. For as the father hath a certain power ouer his sonne the grandsier ouer his nephew and so foorth the elder ouer the yonger this verily god hath wrought by the lawe naturall while by the maner and order of my birth he declareth him to be my superiour which either ministred the cause why I should be borne or else is ioyned in some kindred with him by whome I was borne And so these Patriarkes by birthright hauing the ciuil power by the law of Nature as ye confesse had not the ciuil power bycause they had the Ecclesiasticall but rather had the Ecclesiasticall power bycause they had Ciuile power by natural righte till these two offices were by the Lawe of Moyses seuered As for Moyses and the Machabees were indeed of the tribe of Leui. Moyses had power in bothe estates but béeing before the Ecclesiasticall power was lotted to the tribe of Leui and béeing the lawemaker in appoynting it to the race of his brother Aaron his example maketh agayne for the Ciuile Magistrate rather to haue hadde the gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters than the Ecclesiasticall in the Ciuill The Machabees by an extraordinarie vocation had the Ciuile power As for Samuell was also of the tribe of Leui but yeÌ„t no Prieue althoughe a Prophet and the Iudge also but by especiall calling of God thereto Nowe all these estates béeyng thus diuers bothe in sortes and tymes hee confoundeth together to enforce his obseruation that the Priestes ordinarylye maye deale in the Princes office but in no case the Prince maye deale with any thing belonging to the Priests and yet his owne examples make agaynst him But he addeth without some especiall consecration But what especiall consecration had Dauid had Salomon had Ezechias c. to gouerne the Priests in their ecclesiasticall matters We reade of no especiall consecration other than the dutie of their royall power But wherto tendeth all this forsooth priests may deale with Princes and take the Ciuil power vpon them ordinarily but Princes in no case may deale with Priests Herevpon say you when Ozias woulde haue offred incense vpon the altar of incense Azarias the Priest wente in after him and with him the Priestes of the Lorde resisted the king and sayde It is not thy office Ozia to offer incense to the Lorde but it is the office of the Priests that is to say of the sonnes of Aaron that are consecrated to suche mysterie The example of Ozias is often â—…rged of himselfe and al his fellowes howbeit it is méere impertinent flaundederous The Prince taketh not vpon hir as Ozias woulde haue done the power nor office nor administration ecclesiasticall But suche power as Ozias did well take vpon him while