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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14856	Catalogus protestantium, or, The Protestants kalender containing a suruiew of the Protestants religion long before Luthers daies, euen to the time of the Apostles, and in the primitiue church.	Webbe, George, 1581-1642.; Gee, John, 1596-1639.	1624 (1624)	STC 25160.7; ESTC S123319	58,161	115

were the Prophets so likewise the Apostles at more times and in more places then one charged with many accusations which yet in truth were but meere calumniations Plinius so the Iewes when the visible Church of God was onely among them were slandered as worshippers of Hogs Cornel. Taci● and Asses and contemners of all Religion So the olde Christians in the Primitiue Church were slandered to vse incestuous companie each with other like O●dipus and to eate mans flesh at the banquet of Thyestes Eus●● 〈◊〉 hist lib. 4. c. ● Socrat. lib. 1. ● ● Euseb lib. 9. c. 6. Soram l. 5. c. 25 Idem lib. 8. c. 28 So Athanasius Narcissus Cyrill Chrysostome and which else of the ancientest worthies of the Church haue been free from slanders and sinister imputations No maruell then if these who in their seuerall times did seperate themselues from the common corruptions of the Times and withstood the errours of those lines doe taste of the malignant aspersion in those times Secondly wee are not so much to regard what the Court of Rome and their Councels haue thought and pronounced against these our Ancients for they were parties partially affected against these their opposits and it is no rare thing with that Synagogue to damne those to the pit of hell who any wayes crosse their proceedings Neither doe wee beleeue that all they are or were Hereticks whom the Papists call heretickes for whatsoeuer doth withstand their Hierarchie they account heresie But our Apologie in that behalfe is that of the Apostle St. Paul Act. 24.14 After the way which they call heresie so worship wee the God of our Fathers Rob. Gros●●●d B. of Lincoln vt citatur in ●●che● of tr●●g And if that description of Heresie may goe for currant which was deliuered by a Reuerend and learned Prelate in this Land almost foure hundred yeares agone That Heresie Haeresis Gr●●e electio Latine est sententia 〈◊〉 m●●● sensu ●●●cta script●● sacra contr●● pa'am d●c●● pe●tinacitur defensu is an opinion hatch'd in mans owne braine contrary to holy Scripture openly maintained and stifly defended then can they by no meanes brand either vs or these our predecessors with the name of Hereticks who neither hold any opinions grounded vpon our owne fancies neither openly maintained or stoutly stand to any errours whereof they iustly can conuict vs but that wee and they are truely orthodoxe and right Catholikes who teach and maintaine nothing but that whereof we haue euident warrant out of the Word of God Thirdly what is that which they can obiect against any of those who are mentioned in our former Catalogue Is it concerning our Faith or Life or both Let vs looke to the Triall of the particulars and I doubt not but all their suggestions will proue lyes and meere slanders as may appeare if we doe take a view of the particulars And here 1. Wee will begin at Luther because their spight is most against him as being a principall opposite of theirs and vpon whom they would father the beginning of our cause And let vs heare what they can say against Luther Popish Discourse of Faith ss 57. Martin Luther say they was an Apostate Frier a man knowne by his Writings words deeds and death to haue beene a notorious euill liuer That Luther was somtimes a Frier wee grant and that afterwards through the mercy of God hee obtaining a more cleare knowledge of the Truth renounced their profession we doe not deny But what Apostasie was this in him or how can it more disparage him then it did the Apostle Paul Act. 22.3 23.6 9.1 2 3 6 18 ●9 D. Whi●e his way to the true Church who at the first was a Pharisie and after that being better illightned by God renounced the profession Pharisaicall and became an Apostle both those former professions being meere hypocrisie saue that this of the Frier is of the deeper tincture Stapleton disc p. 159. And what haue they to say against his Writings Forsooth they were vnsauourie rash petulant vnsound and altogether heriticall Soone said but not so soone proued for it doth so appeare by their confutation of the same let them make that appeare and then wee will credit them In the meane space howsoeuer wee stand not in defence of all either matter or manner of his writings neither indeed doe wee build vpon him we will rather giue credit to some lesse partiall but more iuditious euen among the Papists themselues who giue other manner of testimonie concerning Luthers writings Q. Erasm ad Card●n Mog●at for thus Erasmus speaketh of them It is obserued for a truth that these men meaning tho Papists condemne many things in Luthers bookes which in Augustine and Bernard are read for godly and good diuinitie And he addeth That hee seeth this the best men are least offended at his writings Hos●and Hist Eccles cent 16. p. 83● So Andreas Masius in the company of diuers obserued and acknowledged that there was more diuinitie mo●● page of Luther then sometimes in a whole booke of s●●ne Father And what can they obiect against his life did he forsake his Monasterie and giue himselfe to the Deuill following him and doing homage vnto him that all things might prosper according to his minde as did Siluester the second Platinan Sil●est 2. did hee robbe Churches and murther his Predecessors as did Pope Boniface the seauenth Baron au● 〈◊〉 n. 1. O●● 〈◊〉 lib. 3. did he commit incest with his owne Daughter as did Pope Alexander the sixth did he cast the Sacrament into the fire as did Pope Hildebrand did he keepe a be●ie of whores Bruno Cardinalis I●●ipraud lib. 6. c. 6. 7. turne the Church into a Stewes drinke healths to the deuill reuell vp and downe the streetes in armour and set mens houses on fire as Pope Iohn the 12. did No surely Not any shew in Luthers life of any of these or such like offences yea Er●smus one who was familiar with him in a certaine Epistle to Cardinall Wolfie giueth testimonie of him Erasm Epist ad Cardinal E●●rac that his life was approued with great consent of all men And this saith he is no small honour to him that the integritie of his manners is so great that his very enemies can finde nothing which they may Calumniate Pontac Campian Onu●b in Ioh. 8 What deedes then hath he done for which they should finde such fault with his life Forsooth he married a Nunne hee lay with Bora hee lay with her But first he married her hee had not his Marozias Reyneras Theodoraes Stephanaes to be his bedfellowes without any care or veile of marriage Baron in ann 928. 912. But hee was a Frier shee a Nunne both which had vowed not to marrie But who tied them to those vowes or what vow of man can disanull the lawfulnesse of Gods owne ordinance Whether is it not better to marrie

Popish religion about the yeare of our Lord 1516 by occasion of his looking into first the Pardons and Indulgences which Pope Leo the tenth set to sale in Germany by Frier Tecellius and afterwards by p ying into other stuffe of Popish superstitions so that the time of hi● separation from the Church of Rome must be reckoned to be about the yere of our Lord 1516 or 1517. King Henry the eight shoke off the Popish yoake about the 25 yeare of his reign● viz. Chronic. Ang●●● in vita H●●● 8. Statut. ann reg●● 25. Acts and Monum p. 963. Anno Domini 1534 Before which time he wrote against Luther and was an earnest defender of the Papacy Before either of these two times and whilst both Henry the eight and Luther were Papists wee can produce profess●rs of ou Religion betweene the yeare of our Lord 1500 and 1516. In England Doctors and learned men D. Iohn Colet Deane of Paules who was a great labourer for reformation in the Church and in his Sermons bitterly inueighed against inhibition of Priests mar●age pilgrimages and diu●rs other abuses in the popish Church for which hee was much persecuted by Richard Fitz-Iames Bishop of London Pa●et ex Registr Fitz. Erasm ep ad Iodoc. Ion. Gulielmus Lillius Gulielm Grocinus Gulielm Latimer Thomas Lynacre Whole Congregations persecuted for it In the Diocesse of Lincolne to the number of 437 persons Martyrol p. 751 752. c. In London 68 persons p. 734. 745. Martyrs put to death for it VVill Sweeting Iohn Brewster Iohn Browne Iokime Norman Iohn Stileman Thomas Man Robert Cosin Christop Sho●●●●●●● Robert Rane Iohn Scriuener In France Doctors and learned men Iacobus Pauanus Iohannes de Cadurco Laurentius Crucens Patet ex Crisp pantal Congregations Whole villages of them in the tract where the Alpes are ioyned with the Pyrenies P●ir de Soau in hist Concil Trident. p. 3. Whole villages about Merindol and the Country of Prouence Martyrol p. 859. Martyrs Dionysius de Reaux Iacobus Pauanus Bartholomaeus Millen Henricus Poile Iohannes Chastellanus In Germany Doctors and learned men Leo Iuda Iohannes Oxlinus Vldericus Zuinglius Congregations Tigurines Bernates Lucernates Suicenses Vnderualii Basilienses Martyrol p. 791. Martyrs Petrus Spengler Wolgangus Schurch Leonardus Heilar Wendelmuta Vidua In Bohemia There were diuers about this time professing the Protestants religion who were by the Papists tearmed Pycards Calystini and Subutraques Pier de Soau in his Historie of the Trent Councill p. 3. Before this time and before Luther was borne there were professors of the Protestants Religion betweene the yeares of our Lord 1450 and 1500. In England REynold Peacocke Bishop of Chichester who publikely preached against the Pope Fryers transubstantiation and the whole leauen of popery Thomas Gasgorgu lib. de dict Theol. p. 3. Martyrs William Tilsworth Thomas Barnard Iames Mordon Lawrence Gh●st Babram Ieane Boughton Mother to the Lady Young Acts and Monum in regn Henric. 7. Persecuted for the same Iohn Blomeston Richard Hegham Robert Crowther Iohn Smith Roger Browne Thomas Butler Iohn Falkes Richard Hilmin Margery Goit With diuers others in Kent Couentrie and London ibid. p. 713. 714. In France Philippus Comineas a French Historiagrapher who spared not to reproue the vices in Popery and to extol those who opposed the same Martyrol p. 672. Iohannes Selestadiensis Vide eius Epist ad Maximil Imper. contra Pon●ificios Antonius Mancinellus who wrote an eloquent oration against the filthie l●fe and wicked manners of the Pope and his Clergy and for that cause had his tongue and hands cut off by the commandement of the Pope Mar●yrol p. 674. Charles the e●gh was at often defiance with the Pope Ibid. p. 675. In Germany The Germanes in generall exhibited their complaints against the Pope to the Emperor Maximilian Martyrol p. 672. Rodulphus Agri●●la Pontanus Philippus B●roaldus Georgius Valla. Iohannes Ostendorpius Doctor Keisersp●rgius Doctor Andreas Proles Ex Luc. Ostand lib. 1. c. 8. VVeselus Groningensis wrote against popish penance indulgences purgatory workes of supererrogation abuses of the Masse prayers for the dead vowes precepts of the Pope and Prelates c. Hee was a man so famous and notable for his great learning and good life that hee was commonly called Lux mundi The light of the world Ex Noviomag Martyrol p. 670. In Bohemia Georgius Pogiebrachius Gouernor of that Kingdome vnder the young King Ladislaus Rochezana and diuers other Preachers more of whose conformity with vs in Religion and separation from the Church of Rome wee may reade Cocl lib. de Hus Martyrol p. 662. Item ex Aene. Sylv. in Histor Bohem. In Italy Iohannes Baptista Ma●●uanus Angelus Politianus Hermolaus Barbarus Iohannes Picus Mirandula This Picus Earle of Mirandula being but a young man went to Rome and there set vp 90 conclusions to be disputed on of which diuers were about the Sacrament Iustification c. quite contrary to the tenent of the Church of Rome for which hee was persecuted by the Pope and his Clergy Luc. Osiand lib. 1. c. 8. Martyrol p. 740. Hieronimus Sananorola an Italian Monke sorely inueighed against the corruption in Popery maintained iustification by faith that the communion ought to bee administred in both kinds that indulgences and pardons of the Pope were of no effect against auricular confession and the Popes Supremacy so which cause he with two more who taught and preached the same together with him were hanged at Florence and afterwards burnt to ashes Illiric Catal. test Martyrol pag. 450. Before that time there are to be found professors o● the Protestant Religion betweene the yeares 1400 1450. In England THe name of Lollards about this time was commonly knowne in England That they and wee doe agree in the substance of our Religion may appeare ex descript sect Lollard William Bishop of Norwich complaineth how the number of them did here encrease Martyrol pag. 609. Martyrs Rich. Houerden Iohn Goose Paul Craw. William Woite Iohn Claidon Richard Tu●ning Sr Iohn Oldcastle Lord Cobham Persecuted and put to penance for that profession Iohn Burrell Thomas Moone Iohn Finch Nicholas Belward Thomas Grimar Iohn Beuerley Thomas Pye Iohn Mendham Robert Shiruing Iohn Terrio Iohn Aberee Iohn Middleton Iohn Waid Richard Clerke Robert Beet Richard Page Iohn Warden Iohn Kinget Thomas Albeck William Bates Hugh Pie Iohn Parker Iohn Skilly Iohn Cooper Bartholmew Thatcher Thomas Iames. Alane Andrew William VVright Richard Fletcher VVill. Osbourne Robert Briggs VVilliam Marsh Iohn Goodwi● Henry Bood Richard Horne Iohn Spire Richard King with diuers others as wee may finde them named and recorded Mar. yrolog pag. 608. In France Thomas Redonensis a Frenchman by birth came into Italy about the yeare 1433 and there seeing the corruptions of the Church of Rome inueighed exceedingly against the same preaching that the Church did lack reformation that the Popes excommunication is not to bee feared and diuers things to the like effect for which he was persecuted

a meere Sophister both of them Arch heretickes turbulent and pernitious persons ambitiously desiring vaine-glorie Cochleus lib. 2. Histor Hussit p. 88. Dico igitur Iohanne●● Husse neque sanctum neque beatum habendum sed impium petius c. maintainers of damnable and detestable opinions Cochleus thus writeth of them I say therefore that Iohn Husse is neither to bee accounted holy nor blessed but rather wicked and eternally wretched insomuch that at the day of Iudgement it shall be more easie not only with the Infidell Pagans Turkes Tartarians and Iewes but also with the most sinfull Sodomites and the abominable Persians yea also with most impious Cain killer of his owne brother with Thyestes killer of his owne mother and the Lestrigones and other Anthropaphagi which deu●ure mans flesh yea more easie with those infamous murtherers of Infants Pharaoh and Herod then it shall be with him c. Dura verba A rash and harsh sentence yet Michael the Archangell when he contended with the Deuill Iude 9.10 disputing about the Body of Moses durst not bring against him a railing accusation but said The Lord rebuke thee But these speake euill of things they know not They condemne these two worthy Diuines for Heretikes their doctrine for heresie and burne them damne them to hell raile against their memorie before they proue either them or their doct●ine Hereticall Aenaeas Siluius Antonin●s Laziardus True indeed it is that Aeneas Siluius knowne afterwards by the name of Pope Pius the 2. and Antoninus and Laziardus doe falsly father many erronious Articles vpon them which they neuer maintained Recognitio ciuitatis V●iuers Prag August 30. 1414. neither came it into their heart to maintaine as both themselues doe professe and the Citie of Prage witnesse with them And in the Councell of Constance besides many false accusations suggested against them and their doctrine their true opinions were censured as haereticall But how were they proued so to be how were they confuted did not he plead his cause before the whole Councell did hee not promise to reuoke his opinions if by the word of God it might be proued that he had erred did they goe about by the Scriptures and not rather by clamours outrages and reproaches to answer him I appeale to the Acts of the Councell Nay more heare the testimonie of one who was deputed Inquisitor to enquire into the doctrine of Iohn Husse by the Sea of Rome and that is the Bishop of Nazareth Inquisitor of heresie in the Citie and Diocesse of Prage who by his Letters written doth cleere him from any hereticall position The coppie of whose Letter is to this effect WEE Nicholas by the grace of God Martyrolog p. 549. Bishop of Nazareth and Inquisitor specially deputed by the Apostolike Seat for heresies both of the Citie and Diocesse of Prage by these presents make it knowne to all men that wee haue often communed and talked with that honourable man Master Iohn Husse Bachelor of Diuinitie of the famous Vniuersitie of Prage and haue had diuers and sundry Conferences with him both of the Scriptures and diuers other matters And in all his sayings doings and behauiour wee haue proued and found him to be a faithfull and a catholicke man finding no manner of euill sinister or by any meanes erronious doings in him to this present we doe witnesse and protest moreouer how the said Iohn Husse of late in the Cathedrall Church of Prage c. hath set vp his Letters written both in the Latine and Bohemian tongue containing sententially in effect that hee the aforesaid Iohn Husse would appeare before the reuerend Father Conrade Arch-Bishop of Prage and all the Prelates and Clergie of the Kingdome of Boheme c. and there be ready to satisfie euery man that shall require him to shew a reason of his faith and hope that he holdeth and to see and heare all and euery one which could proue any obstinacie of error or heresie lawfully against him vnder paine to receiue the like punishment also that he would be at the Councell of Constance now at hand there before all the Prelates and holy Fathers to declare and shew forth his innocencie After the which Letters as is aforesaid by the said Master Iohn Husse openly set vp There did no man appeare before vs which would accuse the said Iohn Husse of any error or heresie whatsoeuer For euident witnesse of all which thinges wee haue commanded these present Letters to bee made and confirmed the same with the setting to of our Seale Dated in Prague 30. of August Anno Dom. 1414. As for that aspersion of Ambition or vaine glory Ioh. Huss de Sacr●d M●nach● abhominat pag. 84. Nam ist● scribeus fate●● quod nihil 〈…〉 in illis ●rget nifi dilecti● Domini Ies●● crucifixi c. which the Pope-Catholikes would fasten vpon this holy man let vs heare his owne Apologie In writing these thinges saith hee I confesse that nothing else hath moued mee hereunto but onely the loue of our Lord IESVS Crucified whose prints and stripes according to the measure of my weaknesse and vilenesse I couet to beare in my selfe beseeching him so to assist mee with his Grace that I may neuer seeke to glory in my selfe or in any thing else but onely in his Crosse and in the inestimable ignominie of his Passion which hee suffered for mee And therefore I write and speake these thinges which I doubt not but will like all such as vnfainedly loue the Lord IESVS CHRIST and contrariwise will dislike not a little all such as bee of Antichrist Also againe I confesse before the m●st mercifull L●rd IESVS CHRIST Cru●ified that these thinges which I doe now write and those which I haue written before neither I could haue written nor knew how nor durst so to haue written vnlesse hee by his inward vnction had so commaunded mee Neither yet doe I write these thinges as of authoritie to get mee a name for as Saint Augustine and Hierome doe say that is onely to bee giuen to the Scriptures and writings of the Apostles Euangelists and Prophets which doe abound in the fulnesse of the Spirit of IESVS and whatsoeuer is there said is full of veritie and wholsome vtilitie As concerning the life and conuersation both of Iohn Husse and Hierome of Prague which the Papists labour to traduce let vs heare the testimonie not of Plebians but of the Nobles of Morauia not a few but 54. of them written to the Councell of Constance in their defence The Copie of it beginneth thus Extat Martyrol p. 386. 387. TO the right Reuerend Fathers and Lords in Christ the Lords Cardinals Patriarchs Primates Arch-bishops Bishops Embassadours Doctors Masters and to the whole Councell of Constance We the Nobles Lords Knights Esquires of the famous Marquesdome of Morauia wish the desire of all Goodnesse and the obseruation of the Commandements of our Lord IESVS CHRIST For asmuch

same Faith which wee professe by the Bohemians Waldenses c. alreadie hath beene made manifest But how long time is it I pray that the name Papist whereof of late they were ashamed and wherein they now so much glory was knowne or acknowledged in the world Act. 11.26 Optat. Mileuit lib. 2. cont Parm. or whence is it that leauing the auncient name of Christians they rather with the Donatists appropriate vnto themselues the name of Catholicks Doubtlesse howsoeuer they bragge and boast of Antiquity wee may apply that of Bildad vnto them They are but of yesterday Iob. 8.9 for how could a man know what it was to be a Papist or what was the body of Religion before the Councell of Trent had defined it Trent Councel concluded An. dom 1563. which was since Luthers time Let them shew where their Papall Supremacie was before the time of Pope Goodface the third or their Latine Seruice before the yere 680. Platina or their Romish Masse before Adrian the 1. Anno 780. Iacob de Vorag in vit Gregor Exposit Rom. ord ann 1215 1222. ex Act. Rom. Pontif. 1414. or their Agnus Dei before Pope Sergius an 700. or their Transubstantiation before the Councell of Lateran or their eleuation and adoration of the Sacrament before the time of Honorius the third or their eceiuing of the Communion in one kinde onely and the absolute forbidding of the contrary before the Councell of Constance Iohan. Scot. lib. 4. dist 17. artic 3. or their absolute necessity of Auricular Confession before Innocent the third Idem ibid. in his Councell of Lateran or the prohibition of Marriage to the Clergie before the same time I might instance in many other points of Poperie which howsoeuer they may carrie some shew and shadow of Antiquity yet being duly considered they will appeare to be but late inuentions peeced and patched together by their Popes as each of them in their succession was minded to adde something to make vp the full measure of the mysterie of Iniquity Neyther let them boast as of commonly they cracke of the ancient Church of Rome Rhom 〈◊〉 in Act. 1● ● Idem in E●●● 4.13 so famously renowned by the Writings of the Apostles and commended and appealed vnto by the auncient Fathers for the name and shew of the Romane Church See M. Fox his description of the diff●rence of the now Church of Rome and the old Act● and Monum first 26. page● is but an emptie shew of Names and Titles this present Romane being in a manner wholly departed in the Questions controuerted from the auncient and retayneth nothing but the Title The true auncient and Apostolike Church of Rome so much commended by the Fathers and sought to by the World professed another kind of Faith then this doth and the same that we now defend against them That Church affected no such prowd and swelling Titles it vsurped no such transcendent Iurisdictions it obserued no such foolish Superstitions it maintained contrarie Doctrine to their now Errors To what purpose then should any sticke vpon the name of the Romane Church when the true Faith is changed Or what doe the Prerogatiues and Royalties of the auncient Church concerne this that is turned to another Religion Or who regardeth an House of stately Building or anticke memorie of auncient Antiquitie when the Plague hath infected it and Theeues possesse it Leaue therefore yee Romanists to cracke of your Antiquitie or to traduce vs of Noueltie wee may take vp the words of Nicephorus Concil Eph●● sin pag. 307. the Patriarke of Constantinople in an Epistle to Leo Bishop of Rome Wee also haue the Name of Rome the ●di● and auncient Faith of Rome among vs being built vpon one and the same foundation of Faith in matter of Faith we follow them Wherefore let S. Paul glorie and reioice in vs also and ioyning new things with old and comparing vs in Doctrines and Preaching let him glorie in vs both alike for wee as well as they following the Doctrines and Institutions wherein wee are rooted are confirmed in the confession of our Faith wherein wee stand and reioyce c. As for you my poore seduced Countreymen who suffer your selues to be seduced and mis-led by these Popish Circumcellions take heed and beware how you fauour these Merchants of the Romish Strumpet who vnder fained pretences and subtile insinuations goe about to make merchandise of your soules 2. Pet. 2.5 These latter dayes saith the Apostle are perillous times and these Popish Priests and Iesuits I may say are perillous seducers 2. Tim. 3.1 6 7. They of this sort creepe into houses and lead captiue silly women laden with sinnes and led about with diuers Lusts euer learning and neuer able to come to the knowledge of the Truth Listen not vnto them It is not good for Eue to fall to conference with the Serpent Genes 3. no nor for Adam neyther to suffer Eue and the Serpents parley or to encline vnto them least hee also be partaker in the Transgression Consider what is the end they ayme at not Religion but the Soueraigntie of their high-towring Church not the Consciences of men yeelding to their Ceremonies and Superstitions will satisfie them vnlesse they haue their wills in ouer-ruling all and bringing them vnder their Antichristian Yoake How doe they disturbe Thrones and fill the World with Anarchie and Confusions and whose soules they should winne to God by ministring the Word and Sacraments their bloud they sacrifice to the Deuill by stirring them vp to Treason and Rebellion Beloued 1. Ioh. 4.1 beleeue not euery Spirit but trie the Spirits whether they be of God or no. A Foole saith Salomon beleeueth euery thing Prou. And surely it is their folly who suffer themselues to be seduced by giuing too easie credit to the slauering insinuations of these Popish Teachers and are hereby brought into a great dislike of our Church because they beleeue their words and doe not make search and enquirie after the truth of the same Beware least that dreadfull iudgement of God fall vpon you 2. Thess 2 10 11. Because they receiued not the knowledge of the Truth that they might be saued therefore God shall send them strong delusions that they should beleeue lyes You will say That you are no Changelings That yee are of the olde Religion That you keepe the olde Faith and will liue and dye in the same Religion which your fore-fathers professed Poore soules Popish Religion is not the oldest Religion but a late vpstart a Modell of Superstition your Popes Catholike Church is but an Impostume growne in the Church Wee confesse that for a long time the Christian World hath beene annoyed with it yet euen in the time and before the time of this declining from the Truth our Faith and Religion hath euer kept it selfe vnspotted The true cause why during the former ouer-clouding times of Poperie the Exercises