heuen whyther wolde Tyndale aduyse them thus whyche yf he dyd then sholde he teche them that mannys endeuoure towarde fayth is not a thynge to be mocked as hym selfe mocketh it now but that mannes own wyll doth somwhat more towarde it then doth the chylde to the bygettynge of hys owne father Or ellys wolde Tyndale forbydde them all suche thynges in any wyse tell them that theyr owne endeuoure wolde rather hynder and make theym ascrybe the fayth that is y e gyfte of god vnto the meryte goodnes of theyr owne wyll theyr owne towardenesse theyr owne prayours theyr owne coÌ„tynence almoyse dede fastynge and all theyr other endeuoure All whyche thynges yf Tyndale take for nought or peryllouse then is it lykely that he wolde of consequence aduyce those dyscyples of hys to be well ware of all suche thynges do none of theÌ„ in no wyse for the counsayle to such thynges coulde come but of betle blynde flesshely reason And therfore Tyndales dyscyples towarde the gettyng of the fayth to the entent they shulde take therof no parte vnto theyr owne prayse but gyue the hole glory to god sholde I saye by hys aduyse vse none endeuoure at all nor do no thynge nor saye no thynge nor thynke no thynge but sytte euen styll sadly and gape by daye agaynste the sonne by nyght agaynste the mone tyll eyther some blynde betle or some holy humble bee come flye in at theyr mouthes and buzze in to theyr brestes an vnholsome hepe of flye blowen errours and motthe eten heresyes And thus good chrysten readers the reason that Tyndale maketh vs agaynste the endeuoure of man towarde the attaynynge of fayth whyche endeuoure he mocketh calleth it a counsayle of betle blynde reason bycause fayth is the gyfte of god I dowte not I saye but that hys reason is suche that a man that were betle blynde in dede may perceyue well inough that Tyndale for lacke of good endeuoure hath had of the gyfte of god lytell wytte and lesse grace in makynge of that feble and vnlawfull reason Tyndals other reason agaynst the good endeuour of mannes wyll is thys Tyndale My wyt muste shewe me a trewe cause or an apparent cause why yere my wyll haue any workynge at all More Lette Tyndale set hys consequente and conclusyon to thys antecedent made of thys reason and saye My wytte muste fyrste shewe me some cause eyther trewe or somwhat semynge trewe before that my wyll can any thynge do at all ergo none endeuoure of my selfe in conformynge and applyenge of my wyll can any thynge do at all And now when hys argumeÌ„t is all made vp ye shall fynde it as full of reason as an egge full of mustarde For what though my wytte and reason muste fyrste set my wyll a wurke can yet my wyll when it is ones moued dyuersly bytwene two reasons no thynge do at all in remouynge an obstynat leâ—ynge to the tone syde or a conformable inclynacyon towarde the consent of the tother If all the fayth of suche trewthes as are taughte were in suche wyse inspyred into euery mannes harte that is a faythfull man as he by that inwarde inspyracion had such a full perfayt and clere perceyuynge therof in the inwarde syghte of the vnderstandynge as the bodyly eye hath of y â— thynge that it playnely seeth and loketh vppon or as the syghte of the soule hath in suche euydent and open conclusyons as it dothe playnely and openly byholde suche I meane as are the generall petycyons in the fyrste boke of Euclidis geometry as that euery hole thynge is more then hys owne halfe or suche other lyke then wold I well agre wyth Tyndale that when the thynge were so shewâ—d vnto my wytte I coulde not but agre therto wyth my wyll But I say that all be it god is able in suche wyse to inspyre and infounde the fayth yf that hym lyste yet I saye that ordynaryly into hys faythfull folke neyther fynall reprobates nor fynall electes for faythfull are at sundry tymes of both the sortes he gyueth not the bylyefe or fayth on that fasshyon For yf he dyd then were it not fayth nor bylyâ—fe but very syghte and knowlege And suche kynde of so certayne and open reuelacyon were vnto the man occasyon of bylyefe and credence necessaryly surely and ineuytable but therfore as it semeth neyther thankworthy nor rewardable Now dothe god wyth hys chrysten folkes ordynaryly take that waye in the gyuynge theym theyr bylyefe and fayth that though they do not meryte wyth any forgoyng good dedes nor deserue the gyfte of byleuynge yet maye they wyth good endeuoure and obedyente conformyte deserue and meryte in the beleuynge And therfore syth god wyll for that cause bynde vs to the bylyefe bycause he wyll that we meryte and be rewarded for our bylyefe the reason of whyche deserte and meryt on our parte standeth in the respecte and regarde that god hath to our obedyence by whyche we wyllyngly submytte our selues to the credence of goddes worde wryten or vnwryten tellynge vs any thynge agaynste oure owne reason tellynge vs the contrary then yf our bylyefe loste hys meryte as that holy pope saynte Gregory sayth it shulde yf reason playnely proued vs the thynge that we byleue so were the meryte of our bylyefe loste in lyke wyse yf the thynge were in suche wyse gyuen vs as we more perfytely perceyued it then we perceyue any suche as reason maye moste perfytely proue vs. And therfore I say that god dothe nat ordinaryly gyue into men the faythe in suche maner bycause he wyll nat vtterlye take awaye the meryte fro man for as moche as he hathe ordayned hym to ioye by the meane of some meryte some conflycte passyon or payne vpon his owne parte though nat sufficient worthy for as saynt Poule sayth all the passyons and sufferaunces of this worlde be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shal be releued in vs yet suche at the leste wyse as his hyghe goodnes accepteth and rewardeth for worthy thorowe the force and strength of those merytes y t are in dede sufficient worthy the merytes I meane of y â— bytter payne and passyon of his alone onely begotten and tenderly beloued sonne Than say I nowe that syth y â— faythe is nat ordinaryly with suche open ineuitable and inuincyble lyghtsomnes inspyred in to the soule that the man muste of necessyte and very fyne force clerely perceyue and agree it but by god prouyded so sufficiently to be shewed taught as he that wyll be conformable and walke with goddes grace may fynde good cause inoughe to captyue his reason to the belefe and yet nat so great and vrgent causes but that he whiche wyll be yll wylled and frowarde may let grace go and fynde him selfe cauellacyons prowdely to test vpon his owne reason agaynste the worde of god eyther sayenge that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proued for goddes worde as Tyndale sayeth in all goddes
or sawe suche a man he runneth strayt to hys remembraunce and sayth he sayd it not or saw hym not to hys remembraunce though it were in leâ—se then halfe an howre afore For therin he seeth hym selfe saufe For though the whole towne sawe them togyther and herde hym speke it yet whyche of all them can proue whyther he remember it styll or haue forgote it were it neuer so late And so playeth Tyndale now beynge fayne to graunte all that he hath denyed he flyeth lyke rede Raynarde the foxe for hys saufegarde into his malepardus of his felyng fayth in whyche though he haue nothynge to proue it yet the Raynarde trusteth to lye saufe bycause he thynketh no man can fynde hym out For who can folow hym thyder to make any tryall what maner fayth hym selfe feleth in hys owne harte But yet good reders we shall so sette aboute hym and then sette in suche terryers to hym that we shall I truste eyther course hym abrode or make hym euyll reste within For lette vs now resorte agayn vnto the gaye gloryous processe of Tyndalys holy dystynccyon And where as in the begynnynge therof he calleth the hystorycall fayth a creâ—ence gyuen to a story tolde hym by men and that such fayth and credence hangeth vppon the trouth and honesty of the teller or of the comen fame and consent of many as yf a man tell hym that the Turke hadde wonne a cytye and that therfore yf there come an other that semeth more honeste or that hath better persuasyons than he thynketh immedyately that the fyrste man lyeth and so he loseth hys fayth agayne If ye consyder well good chrysten readers ye shall fynde that parte of hys dystynccyon that is to wytte the tone halfe of all to gyther is suche a tale as tyll he proue it better shall neuer serue hym here For all be it that in wordely thynges thys tale be trew yet in maters of faythe whyche faythe is the fyrste gate whereby we entre oure iournaye the ryghte waye toward god we canne neuer come at it wythout the helpe of god nor how probable a tale so euer be tolde vs neuer shall we byleue it wythout hys holy hande inwardly set on vs and ledyng vs therin to whych is euer redy in all such thynges both to preuent vs and to goo forth wyth the towardnesse of our owne wyll not frowardly resystynge but applyable vnto hys mocyon And thys order to be trewe Cryste wytnesseth where he sayth No man can come to me but if my father draw hym And saynt Poule sayenge we be not suffycyent of our self to thynke any good thynge as of our selfe And therfore god as I sayde preuenteth vs in the begynnynge goeth forth wyth vs all the waye wythout whom we coulde do nothynge by fayth towarde god nor â—y the outwarde occasyon of fayth toward the inwarde consent therof syth no man can as saynt Poule sayth saye our lorde Iesus but in spyryte And that god is euer redy but yf we wyllyngly wythdraw hym selfe sheweth where he sayth I stonde at the dore and knocke And that god helpeth vs forward not without our own coÌ„formable wyll appereth playn by clere textes of scrypture I wene mo then an huÌ„dred As where he sayth wo be thou Capharnaum for yf in Tyrus Sidon had ben wrought the myracles that haue bene wroughte in the they wolde longe a goo haue done penaunce in asshes and shyrtes of here And also where he sayd vnto HierusaleÌ„ in this wyse Hierusalem Hierusalem how often wold I haue gathered thy children togyther as the henne gathereth togyther her chykens thou woldest not And where he byddeth saynte Thomas of Inde wyll not thou be vnbyleuynge but byleuynge And where he blameth hys dyscyples for not byleuynge those that had seen hym rysen from deth agayne And therfore is it in my mynde false that Tyndale sayth that the hystorycall fayth that is to saye the fayth acquysyte and gotten by gyuynge credence to the reporte and tellynge dothe in the thynges of the chrysten fayth depende vppon the trouth and honesty of menne or comen fame alone For all be it that such thynges be the outwarde occasyons by meane wherof a man cometh therto yet is there euer more in euery such fayth the inwarde cause mouynge our wyll towarde the consent therof the speâ—yall ayde and helpe of the great goodnesse of god wythout whyche oute wyll had neuer walked towarde it And lykewyse as not the mannys tale at oure eare with oute god workynge wythin bryngeth vs into the bylyefe For as saynt Auâ—tayn sayth In vayne sowneth at y e eare the word but yf god worke in the herte eueÌ„ so not y e maÌ„nis tale alone kepeth y e faith in vs but as an outward mocyon yt kepeth as it brought but pryncypally kepeth vs therin he that pryncypally brought vs therto that is the inward workynge of goddes owne holy spyryte And thus ye se that this pyece of Tindales tale is but a bare brokeÌ„ patche Nowe the tother parte wherein he sayeth that yf there come a more honeste man or one that hath better persuasyons to the coÌ„trary that then he that had the faith vppon the fyrste mannys tellynge loseth yt agayne vpon the seconde man tellynge the coÌ„trary I say y t this patche is double noughte For syth as I sayd byfore he came to the fayth by two mocyons the pryncypall god workynge wythin and the secondary the occasyons outwardely geuyn also by god lyke as the good wyll workynge wyth god assented vnto yt so shall neuer any mannys tale nâ—r the tale of a thousande agaynste one ouermayster that inwarde mocyon of god as long as the wyll of the man will contynue styll with god in cleuynge to the fayth as yt dyd in folowynge hym in the commynge to yt Aud therefore some man that hath vppon ryghte small occasyon turned to the fayth and therfore wyth the myche more meryte as Cryste sayde Bleâ—sed be they that haue byleued and haue not seen could neuer wyth any maner occasyon be pulled from yt agayne bycause of theyr good wyll stykkyng styll to the inwarde cause of theyr fayth For yf a man may as in dede he may so obstynately set his wyll vnto the worse syde that no persuasyon of good reason can remoue hym to the better how mych it is more trew that when a man hath coupled his wyll wyth god by inclynynge cleuynge vnto grace there can none euyll persuasyon of counterfeted reason be able to plukkâ— hym from yt tyll the frowardnesse of his wyll do wyllyngly fall therfro as the towardnes of his wyll dyd wyllyngly cleue therto and as yt agayne maye when yt is fallen from yt wyth helpe of grace wyllyngly returne therto Now yf Tyndale call this a felyng fayth yet were his dystinccyon then clene vaynyshed and gone For then were euery historycall fayth in maters in the fayth a felyng faith also And therby
euer sayd such a thyng or durste for very shame so that all the world therby may well perceyue and se that of all shamefull shamelesse sectys that the deuyll can dyuyse these be the botome of the draffe tubbe and the moste poysoned dregges But now doth Tyndale after this to proue that the credence geuen vnto the catholyque chyrche muste nedes be weke feble brynge in the Turkes the Iewes agaynst vs in this maner wyse Tyndale The Turkes beynge in â—omber fyue tymes mo then we knowlege one god and byleue many thynges of god moued onely by the authoryte of theyr elders and presume that god wyll not let so great a multytude erre so longe tyme. And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse this .viii. hundred yeres And the Iewes byleue thys daye as myche as the carnall sorte of theym euer byleued moued also by the authoryte of theyr elders onely and thynke that yt is impossible for theÌ„ to erre beyng Abrâ—hams seed and the chyldren of theÌ„ to whom the promysses of all that we byleue were made And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse thys .xv. hundred yeres And we of lyke blyndneâ—â—e byleue only by the authoryte of our elders and of lyke pryde thynke that we can not erre beynge such a multytude And yet we se how god in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge alwaye a lytle floâ—ke to call the other backe agayne and to testyfye vnto them the ryght waye More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders in these wordes Tindale geueth a specyall goodly doctryne y t yf we byleue the doctryne of the catholyke chyrch of Cryste then haue we no more suertye of our fayth then the Turkes haue of theyrs or y â— Iewes of theyrs consyderynge that the Turkes excede vs so farre in nomber and the Iewes matche vs in tyme. I meruayle myche that Tyndale addeth not vnto them the Paynems also as his mayster Luther dyd in the same argument For the Paynems passed bothe the catholyque Chrysten chyrche and the false Iewes and Turkes and Sarasyns and the false heretyqâ—es to as wâ—ll in tyme as nombâ—â— But yet I meruayle myche more that he hath so lytle wyt as to wene that the bryngynge in any of them all were any thynge at all to purpose For well ye wote good crysten reders that as I haue touched all redy we haue in geuynge credence vnto the catholyke chyrche two maner of mocions one kynde of outwarde causes such as myght yf the mater were wordely moue maÌ„nys reason to the full agrement and consent therof And that the tother mocyon is in them that byfore theyr baptysme haue vse of reason the goodnesse of god fyrste preuentynge them wyth the occasyons of some outwarde mocyon and then walkynge and workynge wyth theyr confyrmable wyllys into the coÌ„sent of that godly treuth and therwyth geuynge theym by baptysme that grace to is rewardable wyth glorye but yf some other synne be the let vpon theyr part And in such as are baptised yong y e inwarde mocyon is the same goodnes of god preuentynge theym with the habytuall fayth infouÌ„ded in the sacrament of baptysme Uppon the seed wherof wyth the good helpe of goddes grace there spryngeth after in the good and well appliable wyll of man the frute of credence and bylyefe whyche they geue vnto crystes catholyke chyrche accordyng to his owne commaundement vppon the preachyng of the same chyrch in the reasons whyche the same chyrche by goddes good ordynaunces geueth as outwarde meanes of credence and enducynge to the bylyefe both of yt selfe and of the scrypture of euery part of fayth as I byfore spake of and shall hereafter speke more Now as for thys inwarde cause we can not bynde the hethen by For though we tell yt theym they wyll not byleue vs or peraduenture tell vs the same tale of them selfe and saye that god moueth theym But vn the tother syde vnto all good crysten men thys thynge muste nedes make yt open that Tyndale in bryngynge forth for his part the Iewes the Turkes to make vs byleue that we maye be as well deceyued in byleuynge the catholyke chyrche syth Crystes days hyther to that the bokes of the new testameÌ„t be the trew scrypture of god as the Iewes in theyr Talmud or the Turkes in theyr Alcharon are deceyued in the beleuynge of theyr elders is a very frantyke blyndenesse For syth amonge all crysten men this is a playne bylyef that the chyrche of Criste is gouerned by the spyryte of god in y â— trewth that all those other chyrches are gouerned be the deuyll in theyr falsed now is to good chrysten people Tyndals argument none other then euen thys The chyrches that are gouerned in falsshed by the deuyll that ledeth them into falsshedâ— maye be deceyued and erre ergo the chyrche that is gouerned in trewth by the spyryte of god that ledeth it into all trouth maye be deceyued and erre in lyke wyse syth they be not so many as the false Turkes be nor haue not coÌ„tynued so longe as the false Iewes haue Is not thys a substancyall reason trowe you fyrste for the inwarde causes of our fayth and theyrs whiche causes arre bytwene vs and them more farre vnlyke thenne are theyr fayth and oures And then as for the outwarde causes of our fayth Tyndale maketh as though we had none other but lengthe of tyme or nomber of peple wherin some fase sectes passe vs. But surely yf we were now to talke wyth eyther Turke oâ— Iewe as we be to talke wyth these heretykes we wolde haue outwarde causes inough to laye wherfore the catholyke chyrche ought of reason to be byleued before any of theyrs and agaynste them all to and yet mo good causes haue we for that poynt to lay agaynst these heretykes then agaynste all the tother But Tyndale wyll happely saye to me therin as Luther answered the kynges grace that the Turke wolde laughe at all our reasons But thys is a wyse answere surely that we sholde be ashamed of euery reason that the Turke wolde laugh at and laye forâ—â— none but suche as we be sure the Iewes and turkes woâ—â— allowe Then must our sauyour Cryste haue holde hys pâ—ace for the Iewes alowed not hys But lyke wyse as though all wolde not yet many dyd and euyn so sholde they now I dowte it not And lyke wyse as though the remanâ—uÌ„t wolde not yet had they causes inough shewed them why they sholde so shold these now haue to But syth Tyndale wyll in no wyse agre that for the catholyke chyrche we coulde lay any causes vnto the Iewes or Turkes wherfore they sholde of reason gyue any credence to it and vppon the credence of it to take the newe testament â—â—r scrypture as saynt Austayne sayth that hym selfe dyâ— then yf we wolde any sende thyther to preche the trewe â—â—â—ypture amonge them and make them fyrste pâ—rceyue and byleue which bokes be the very scrypturys
syth they wolde byleue of lykelyhed as one man of the catholyke chyrche in that poynt better theâ—ne all the whole and that poynt muste nedes by Tyndales doctryne be knowen fyrste as the thynge wythout whyche nothynge can be proued there is no remedy but sende some of Tyndals electes For the trewe reasons and effectuall haue onely ye wote well they But fyrste how shall we knowe them â—yes well inough perde For yf they be freres we knowe them by weddynge of nonnes well sende Luther then How be it that may not be for he sholde be but laughed at there bycause he alloweth the reason of saynt Austayne that he knoweth the sâ—rypture by the catholyke chyrche bycause the chyrche hath he sayth the knowledge and dyscernyng therof from all other wrytynge specyally gyuen by god well wyll we do well then lette vs sende so good a man as no man can dowte of but that he is an electe and who sholde that be but holy wyllyam Tyndale hym selfe what reasons wyll he laye to them He wyll saye by lykelyhed O all you Iewes and all you Turkes to and all ye Saracenys hedes harken here vnto me and geue credence vnto me and byleue me that these bokes be the very scripture of god but byleue it neuer the rather though all the knowen catholyke chyrche saye so for they be all as badde as ye be and ech of you as credyble as any of them and then be you Iewes of more antyquyte then they and ye Turkes and ye Saracenys fyue â—ymes so many as they and therfore why sholde you byleue the catholyke chyrch for any thyng that they can saye vnto you But I shall tell you whom ye shall byleue I saye ye shall byleue me and I shall tell you a good cause why For I haue a felynge fayth For what so euer I tell you god hathe hym selfe so wryten it in myne herte that I fele it to be trewe And therfore thys is a playne euydent open cause wherfore ye sholde byleue me Lo when Tyndale wold telle them thys tale they could not ye wote well laugh therat for it coulde not be but the felynge fayth of hys fâ—lse harte they muste nâ—des fele at theyr owne fyngers endâ— â—ath he not wysely â—andeled thys obieccyon of the Iewes the Turkes and towarde the auoydynge of the catholyke chyrche prouyng of hys felyng fayth brought them to a goodly purpose But then cometh he forth in the ende of hys chapyter and shewed vs that god euer in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge all waye a lytle floke to call them backe agayne and shewe them the ryght way And so he meneth that god hath now sent hym hys mayster and those other holy heretykes to teche the catholyke chyrche the ryght waye But as I haue sayd before god hath promysed to sende hys holy spyryte into thys chyrche to teche it all trouth to remayne therwyth hym selfe also perpetually to guyde hys chyrche from suche fallynge of hys catholyke chyrche from the ryght fayth that he sholde nede to sende any such coll prophetes as these heretykes are to teche hys chyrche the fayth as it appereth well by the olde holy sayntes of euery age syth thapostles dayes wyth whose doctryne as it is by theyr bookes proued the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche agaynst all these heretykes agreeth Also whan he sent hys prophetes of olde he was wonte alway to sende honest men on hys erand that proued them selfe by myracles and not suche rascayle rybauldes as call them selfe apostles and proue it but by iestynge and raylynge Goddes messengers were wonte also to teche euery man clennesse and honesty not as these bestely felowes do teche folke to breke theyr vowys and freres to flye forth and wedde nonnes More ouer yf the trewe flocke be alwaye a lytle flocke then be not these heretykes now the trewe flocke For they be now growen not onely to a greate maynye of menne but also a great shrewde sorte of flockes flockyng in many countrees of chrystendome full faste and in many places mych harme haue done and mych more they go aboute And therfore syth in some places the heretykes be now the gretter multytude and the catholykes the lytle flocke there are then yet syth the treuth standeth by Tyndales tale in the lytlenesse of the flocke the catholykes becomen the faythfull folke and the heretykes the false wythoute any chaunge of bylyefe on eyther other syde Fynally chose few folke that god was wont to reserue or sende to techethe worlde the ryghte waye dyd agre in theyr doctryne For ellys had the worlde ye wâ—te well not wyste whyche of them to folowe But now â—hese heretykes be almost as many sectes as men neuer one agreeth wyth other so that yf the worlde were to lerne the ryghte waye of them that mater were mych lyke as yf a man walkynge in a wyldernesse that fayne wolde fynde the ryghte waye towarde the towne that he enteÌ„ded sholde mete with a mayny of lewde mockynge knauys whyche when the poore man hadde prayed them to tell hym the waye wolde gete them into a roundell turnynge theym backe to backe and then speke all at onys and eche of them tell hym thys waye eche of theym poyntynge forthe wyth hys hande the waye that hys face standeth Fynally that lytell flocke that god reserued to call the great multitude backe and to shewe the worlde the ryghte waye they were euer yet a knowen company For yf men myghte not haue knowen theym they neuer coulde haue herde them nor byleued them as folke of the trewe flocke yf no man coulde haue knowen whyche were the trewe flocke And then muste it theruppon folow that yet the trewe chyrche muste be a knowen chyrche and not an vnknowen sorte of electes onely wyth such an vnknowen kynde of felynge fayth as no man can fele in hys felowe nor no man can fele in hym selfe but he whom all trewe faythfull folke may well and easyly fele for a false fumblynge heretyke whyche by that false fumblynge fayth feleth that the blessed sacrament of the aultar the sacred body of our sauyour hym selfe sholde haue none honour done to it nor be taken for no thynge ellys but eyther for bare brede or starche But now when he hath so well quytte hym wyth y â— false turkes and the Iewes agaynste the trewe catholyke chyrche of Cryste he commeth forth wyth an other chapyter and therin for the fynall conclusyon of all hys mater concernynge the knowlege of the very chyrche and for the fynall solucyon of the seconde argument made for the catholyke chyrche and for the fynall confyrmacyan of hys false felynge fayth he knytteth vppe all hys dyspycyons with these wyse wordes that folow Tyndale ¶ How thys worde chyrche hathâ— double interpretacyon Thys is therfore a sure conclusyon as Paule sayth Rom. 9 that not all they that are of Iâ—aell are Iâ—aelytâ—s neyther bycause the be Abâ—ahams seed
god that he hath a better fayth and a more perfayte than saynt Austayne had after that god had by myracle turned hym to the fayth and wryte agaynst the Manicheys from whose false secte god had called hym PeradueÌ„ture this questyoÌ„ wyll somwhat seme strauÌ„ge to this dyscyple of Tyndale bycause it is none of those to whyche hys mayster hath taught hym to make answere But yet I thynke in conclusyoÌ„ y â— hys mayster wyll not aduyse hym to saye that he feleth hym selfe to haue a more perfayt bylyefe then saynt Austayne in any suche thynge as saynt Austayne and he byleued bothe leste euery man shold fele the mayster of such a scoler to proue a proud fole Now on the tother syde yf he coÌ„fesse that he fele not his owne fayth for any more perfayt then saynt Austayns was but byleue in hys owne mynde that saynt Austayne in any trewe poynt of bylyefe commune vnto them bothe had as full a fayth and as perfayte as he then wyll I aske hym wherfore he doth not now byleue the scrypture styll for the authoryte of the chyrche as well as saynt Austayne dyd styll when he wrote of hym selfe agaynste the Manicheys and sayd I wolde not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto He byleued it for the authoryte of the chyrche alwaye styll and yet dare I saye and Tyndale I suppose dare not saye the contrary but that the spyryte of god hadde as well wryten that conclusyon in hys harte as in the holy harte of any dyscyple of Tyndale whome Tyndale here teacheth to answere vs the contrary And thus as concernynge the knowlege of the very scrypture whyche is our pryncypall mater Tyndals answere in the very chyefe poynte of all but yf he proue hys scolers fayth better then saynt Austayns hys answere that he techeth here hys dyscyple is not worth a rysshe But now let vs in those other artycles aske thys good scoler of Tyndale syth it is so that he feleth and fyndeth in his herte wryteÌ„ by the spyryte oâ— god that freres monkes that haue by vowe forsaken flesshe may lawfully fall from fysshe to womans flesshe and vnder the name of weddyng make stewed struÌ„pettes of nonnes and feleth also by lyke felyng fayth that good workes are nought worth nor shall be rewarded in heuen and feleth also by the same false felyng fayth that in the blessed sacrament of the awter there is neyther the precyouse body nor bloude of Chryste but onely cake brede and wyne or starche in stede of brede I shall aske hym I saye therfore the questyon to whyche hys mayster hath bouÌ„den hym to make answere that is to wyt how he came fyrst by thys fayth that is to saye the hystorycall fayth of them byfore that the spyryte of god wyth wrytynge theym in hys harte caused hym there bothe to rede them and fele them For answere of thys questyon Tyndale sayth to his scoler Tell hym whyther it were by redyng in bokes or heryng it preched Uery well Now syth his mayster byddeth hym tell vs I wolde praye hym to tell vs whyther by prechyng or redynge in bokes To thys he wyll I wene answere me y â— he lerned those thynges by prechynge Then I aske hym by whose prechyng he came to it To this muste he be fayne to saye that by the prechynge of hys owne mayster wyllyam Tyndale Luther Lambert Huyskyn or Suinglius or some suche other apostaticall prechers But now to thys shall I tell hym agayne that syth he had not the felyng fayth wryten by y e spyryte in his harte after his maysters owne tale tyll he fyrst byleued the same thinges with an hystoricall fayth by the herynge of those holy prechers he muste to th entent that he maye lede vs in to the same fayth as they dyd hym tell vs what reason he had to byleue them seynge that they be neyther men of more lernynge nor of more wytte nor of so mych vertue as were saynt Austayn saynt Hierom saiÌ„t Basyle saynt Cyprian saynt Chrysostom saynt Grygory saynt Ambrose wyth many such other lyke whose holy lyuynge trew fayth doctryne god hath approued testyfyed to the worlde by manyfolde wonderfull myracles all which holy doctours haue taught men to beleue y â— coÌ„trary To this questyon Tyndale techeth hys scoler to make answere and saye that he byleued them bycause they laye so good authoryte for them what authoryte laye they for them shall I saye Now to thys questyon Tyndale hym selfe maketh an answere and sayth Concernynge â—utwarde teachynge we allege for vs scrypture elder then any chyrche that was tâ—is xliii hundred yeres and olde autentyke storyes whych they had brougâ—t a slepe where with we confound theyr lyes Remember ye not how in our owne tyme of all that toughte grammer in Englande not one vnderstode the latyne tonge how câ—me we then 〈◊〉 tâ—e laten tonge agayn not by them though we lerned certayne rules aâ—â— prâ—ncyples of them by whyche we were moued and haddâ— an ocâ—â—sâ—on 〈…〉 further but oute of the olde authors Euen so we seâ—e 〈…〉 out of whych we lerne and not of our chirch thâ—â—â—h wâ— receyâ—â—◠〈◊〉 pryncyples of our chyrche at the begynnynge but more faâ—shed amâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 trueth Lo good readers thys dyscyple of Tyndale in these artycles of his felyng fayth that good chrysten mennes good workes shall haue no rewarde in heuyn that frerys may wedde nonnes and in hys blasphemy agaynste the blessed body and bloude of Cryste in the sacrament of the aultare he byleued hys mayster and his mayster his mayster Marten Luther and the other lewde maysters of these newe sectes not wythout a cause ye se well For he sayth that they alledge for theyr heresyes the scrypture olde auncyent sâ—oryes therwyth as men haue brought vp nowe the trewe olde grammer agayne euyn so do they now brynge vp the olde trewe fayth agayne wherof thoughe they toke some pryncyples of the catholyke chyrche at the begynnyng yet they toke therof more falshed amonge then truthe Now which those thynges are that he calleth the falshed that he sayth they toke of the chyrche ye knowe good chrysten reders well inough those are the poyntes for whyche he so sore iesteth and rayleth agaynst the catholyke chyrch the techynge that good wurkes shal be rewarded in heuyn and that folke shold kepe the holydayes fastyng dayes pray for all chrysten soules honour the precyouse boâ—y bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament and obserue theyr holy vowes made to god and forbede that freres sholde wedde nonnes and many suche other thynges These thynges he sayeth that the chyrche hadde taughte hym false tyll that nowe Tyndale and Luther and Lambert and Huyskyn and Suynglius haue restored agayne the ryghte fayth in all these poyntes that hath ben thys .viii. hundred yere loste as Tyndale sayth These thynges haue they now restored and brought vp agayne by antyquytees and old
If he say y t he could not but byleue saint Poule bycause god wrought myracles for hym by the same reason muste he byleue the catholyke chyrche for as myche as god contynually in euery good crysten countrey worketh myracles in yt for the catholyque chyrche and wythdraweth his myracles from all chyrches of heretykes and therby declareth that he dothe those myracles not onely in yt but also for yt And also Tyndale knewe not that god by the mouth of saynte Poule sayde so but bycause that the chyrch taught hym that god dyd so If he saye yes he felt yt by the wrytynge of goddes owne fynger in his herte he muste consyder that I speke of the tyme before y t his hert was so holy that god lyked to wryte wyth his owne fynger therin For hym selfe sayth that the hystorycall fayth goth fyrste the felynge fayth cometh after Therefore at the leste wyse in that tyme why sholde he not as well byleue the chyrche when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd tell as when yt sayde This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd wryte And in lyke wyse for the bokes of the wryten wordes of scrypture of whyche these heretykes receyue suche as lyke them refuse such as they lyste syth y t in the begynnynge sauynge for the catholyke chyrche they neyther knew the tone nor the tother why sholde they not byleue the same chyrche as well in the tone as the tother And as concernynge the bokes of scrypture whych they they them selfe receyue syth the debate betwene the chyrch and these heretyques standeth not vppon the wordes but vppon the sentence yf Tyndale were a Turke borne bycause he layeth so often the Turkes for his parte agayâ—ste vs they wolde and well they myghte reken hym but for a proude fole yf he wold now begynne to constre them theyr Alcharon in great and necessary poyntes of theyr fayth agaynste the consente and agrement of all the olde exposytours of theyr owne and the bylyefe of all the people from the deth of Machomete vnto Tyndales byrth If Tyndale wold now refute myne obieccion of y â— Turkes and theyr Alcharon wyth obiectynge in lyke wyse agaynst me the Iewes and the olde testament whyche Crist and his apostles taught theym to constre contrary to theyr olde vnderstandynge fro Moses dayes to theyr owne and that the chyrch of Cryste doth euen the same styll and wyll therfore say that so maye hym selfe and his mayster Martyne and Huyskyn and Swinglius teache the chyrche of Cryste in lykewyse to constre the scrypture of the new testament in necessary poyntes of fayth contrary to the consent of all the olde exposytours and the comen fayth of all crysten nacyons syth the tyme of Cristes deth and his blessed apostles vnto our owne dayes as Crisâ—e and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche teache the Iewes to construe theyr own scrypture of the old testament that they had had and taught so longe before I answere Tyndale therunto lettynge passe other answeres for this time that Cryst and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche euer synnes haue proued and yet proue the authoryte of theyr doctryne to be aboue the Iewes in the constrewynge of theyr owne scryptures delyuered by Moses and the prophetes by that yt hath pleaseth god for the testyfycacyon therof to shewe by Cryste and his apostles and his catholyke chyrche contynually to this day many meruelouse myracles and wythdrawe theym all from the Iewes Nowe lette Tyndale and Luther and Huyskyn and Suynglius do the lyke agaynste the catholyque chyrche then let them come and teache yt to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrarye to all the olde But tyll they haue the myracles among them and the catholyque chyrche leseth theym yf Tyndale and hys fonde felowes wyll in the meane whyle go nowe aboute to teache the chyrche to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrary to the contynuall fayth fro the apostles days vnto theyr owne we may myche better call theÌ„ proude presumptuous folys then myght the Turkes for teachynge them a contrary construccyon of theyr Alcharon Besydes this his ensample of the Iewis wyll not helpe hym for a nother cause For the olde exposytours of they re scryptures bothe of Moses and of the prophetes were vppon the parte of Cryste and his apostles and consequently of the catholyque chyrche contynually agaynst the false scrybes and pharysyes and the false doctoures synnes in suche necessary poyntes as they and we vary for as appereth well by dyuers of theyr bokê whych be dayly brought forth and allegged by men at this day lerned in theyr own tonge and also by that substancyall well lerned man Lyre in hys exposycyon of the seconde psalme Now yf Tyndale Luther Huiskyn Suingliê° can say y t the old holy doctours expositours vpon the scrypture dyd euer expoune it so that by theyr exposycyon it myghte appere that the scrypture of Cryste appereth it for lawfull and not abhorreth it as a thynge abomynable that freres sholde wedde nonnes I wyll agre wyth Tyndale to gyue ouer all the mater And thus ye se good reders that as concernynge the scrypture which Tyndale here techeth his dyscyple to say that they alledge elder then any chyrche thys .xiiii. C. yere syth the debate and variaunce is not in the wordes wherin they and we bothe agre but in the senteÌ„ce wherin not onely the comen contynued fayth of all chrysten nacyoÌ„s but also all the olde holy doctours sayntes euer synnys the same scrypture wryteÌ„ agreeth with the catholike chyrch agaynst hym hys alledgyng of the scrypture is not worth a leke And therfore is he now dreuen in all that euer we vary for to leue both scrypture and all and when he aske wherfore he byleueth eyther thys or that fayne muste he be to holde hym onely to hys felynge fayth and as Tyndale for a shote ancre techeth hym say that he byleueth it onely bycause he feleth it wryten in hys harte wythout any reasonable outwarde cause wherfore he fyrste byleued it wyth a story fayth wherof as ye haue herde he can for hys heresyes proue vs none at all Then syth he is comen to that poynt that without any good outwarde cause he muste defende hys fayth by hys onely felynge may not the Turkes and the Iewes bothe whome he layeth so sore agaynst vs defende theyr faythe 's agaynste hym by the selfe sam And when he can no ferther saye but that he feleth his to be trew eche of theyrs false may not eche of them answere hym that they fele theyrs to be trewe and hys false And thus were gone the counsayle of saynt Peter that we sholde geue a reason of our hope to euery man that wyl aske vs wherfore we hope so And therfore leuynge saynt Peter hys way lette euery man folowe Tyndale and byleue what he lyste and saye he feleth it wryten in hys owne harte wyth goddes owne hande Men saye that he
myghte haue ben some ouersyghte eyther in hym self or in the prenter by mysse wrytynge or by mysse prentyng those fygurs of algorysme bycause the fygure of .9 the fygure of .6 be all in maner one yf they be contrary turned I assayed them therfore euery way and sought red ouer not onely .99 sermon whyche he assygneth but also .96.69 and 66 and I fynde his texte in none of all those places and thaÌ„ to go seke tohse wordes thorowout all saynt Austayns wurkes were a great longe besynesse For surely it semeth that the man hath alledged hys texte in a wronge place of purpose bycause he wolde not haue it founden for some thynge that hym self seeth of lykelyhed in the same sermon that wolde marre all hys mater wherfore tyll it happen me to fynde the place by chaunce in redynge of saynte Austayns wurkes we wyll take the wordes onely whych hym selfe reherseth than proue they no pyece of hys purpose agaynst the knowen catholyke chyrche For saynt Austayn doth in those wordes no thyng ellys but shew y t the chyrch is not restrayned vnto any one couÌ„tre as those heretykes held whyche were called the Donatystes whyche sayde the very chyrche was onely in Affryque was by god prouyded to rest there sprede no ferther abrode for the defence of theyr frantyke heresye dyd as frere Barns these other heretykes do now bryng forth certayn wordes of scripture coÌ„strewed after theyr owne folysh fantasye But saynt Austayne as I say sheweth in those wordes that the chyrch is the catholyke chyrch y t is to say the vniuersall multytude of all trew chrysteÌ„ people all faythfull chrysten nacyons where so euer they be thorow the worlde Now good reder what maketh thys for frere Barons purpose in profe of hys vnknowen chyrche agaynste the kâ—owen catholyque chyrche well he woteth hym selâ—e that the knowen catholyke chyrch doth not say y t the chirch is nor can be but iÌ„ one cuÌ„trey but he well knoweth that by the knowen catholyke chyrche that false heresye of the Donatystes is as fully coÌ„dempned as are these other false heresyes of hys yes sayth Barns for here ye maye se lo y t neyther pope nor cardynall be no more of thys chyrche than the poreste man in erth why who sayed hym euer naye therof But what is that to the purpose for as a pore man is as well of the chyrche as is the pope so is a cordener as well an englysshe man or a frenche man as is the kynge of eyther other cuntre But yet lyke as reason wyl not agre that the cordener in hys cuntre bere as myche rule as the kynge so wyll it not agre wyth reason that euery man in the chyrche bere as mych rule as the pope whom frere Barons dothe hym self here in this same processe of the chirch knowledge and confesse for Chrystes vicar in the chyrche And therfore it is all besyde the purpose that he runneth forth styll in thys purpose and alledgeth these wordes of Lyranus The chyrche doth not stande in men by the reason of spyryt all power or secular dygnyte for many prynces and many popys and other inferior persons haue swarued fro the fayth wherfore that chyrche doth stanâ—e in thâ—se persons in whom is the trewe knowledge and confessyâ—n of fayth and veryte These wordes of Lyre hath Barns alledged to be wryten in his exposycyoÌ„ vpoÌ„ y e .xix. chapiter of saynt Mathew But I haue loked ouer Lyre vppon all that chapyter and there fynde I no suche sayenge And therfore of lykelyhed Barns playeth here wyth Lyre as he playeth wyth saynte Austayn in the place that he alledged before that is to wyt alledgeth it in a wronge place bycause he wolde not haue it founde for fere of some thynge that wolde appere vppon the place redde and consydered But vppon these wordes of Lyre he maketh a greate exclamacyon and cryeth out Oh my lordes what wylâ— ye say to Lyrâ— I haue great meruayle that you burne hym not It is hyghe tyme to condemâ—ne hym for an heretyke For he speketh agaynste your law 24. Qâ—ua sâ—â—nâ— prima Quodcunque where as your glose declareth that god suffereth not the Rome câ—iâ—che to erre and Lyra sayth playne that many popys haue erreâ— and aâ—so that the chirch staÌ„deth not in dygnite but in coÌ„sessyoÌ„ of Cryst oâ— his blesâ—ed verite Barns wold here seme lo to haue foundeÌ„ a great thyng in Lyre his worde But in good fayth I fynde nothynge here in Barons owne wordes but hys owne dowble foly Fyrste he sayeth Lyre condempneth the lawe and than he sheweth that he speketh not agaynste the lawe but agaynst a glose Is nâ—t that worde wysely proued Then se yet how wysely he proueth that Lyre reproueth the glose he sayth that y e glose sayth that god suffereth not the chyrche of Rome to erre and Lyre sayeth playne that many popes haue erred And what than Lyre â—ayth not y t the chyrch of Rome hath erred nor Lyre sayth not that the pope of Rome is the whole chyrche of Rome no more than the bysshoppe of London is the whole chyrche of London or the archebysshoppe of Canterbery the whole chyrche of the prouynce Now where Lyra sayth that the chyrche standeth not in the dygnyte but in the confessyon of Cryste and hys blessed veryte what sayth he other then all the hole catholyke chyrche agreeth not onely the good folke but the noughty to as many as any wytte haue to perceyue the thing Lyke as a cytye and a realme standeth not so mych by the dygnytye of the rulers as it standeth by wysdome good order true dealynge and iustyce But yet as these thynges wold fayle in a cytye and in a realmâ— yf there were no rulers to se them kepte ye and the rulers beynge of a ryghte seconde sorte yet wolde the people be myche worse yf they were all wythout And the people is therfore bouÌ„den to obay them and not euery lewde felow to ieste and rayle vppon them so is it in the whole chyrche also And therfore no man fyndeth any fawte wyth Lyra neyther to burne hym nor to be angry wyth hym but euery good man hathe good cause bothe to be angry and to burne vppe to suche pestylent sedycyouse persons as not onely by iestynge raylynge and bylinge all those that are in dygnyte prouoke to rebellyon the people that sholde obaye them but also vnder pretexte of techynge the trewe fayth laboure to destroye the trewe fayth and infecte good chrysten peple wyth false poysened heresyes And amonge all those one of the very wurst sort and wheruppon all the remanaunt are in a maner byelded wolde vnder colour of berynge fauour to the good vertuouse people that are in the chyrche make men byleue that the whole chyrche wherof those good men be part were not the chyrche in dede bycause they wolde haue it vnknowen that men myghte haue no suretye of any trewe doctryne
or els muste Tyndale tell vs ones agayne some one of all theym that byleued it lawfull for a monke or a frere professed vnto perpetuall chastyte to runne out of relygyon and go wedde a nonne Now am I glad yet that he cometh forth wyth repentaunce at the leste wyse one way or other For fayth alone was wont to do all thorow all a mannys lyfe And when it was proued them by playne and euydent scrypture that fayth coulde not auayle wythout cheryte then fell they to glose it and say that fayth could neuer be wythout it And then beynge therin repreued playnely by saynt Poule and saynt Iamys both yet stande they styll by theyr worde defende theyr wordes onely by wordes agaynst all reason agaynst the playne wordes of god not vnwryten whych they set not by but the very wryten wordes in playne and euydent scryptures for all that they saye they byleue no thynge ellys And in that poynt I byleue them well and in more to For where they say that they byleue nothyng but scrypture I thynke they saye trewe for they byleue no thynge besyde the scrypture nor yet the scrypture neyther as theyr owne wrytynges do full clerely declare But now syth they say styll that fayth alone suffyseth and yet saye that there muste be cheryte to and now saye there must be repentaunce to they saye none other thynge in effecte but y â— it is mough to haue fayth alone yf a man haue other vertues to and that it suffyseth to haue fayth alone so that fayth be not alone for and it be alone then is it no fayth at all Is not thys a nother goodly rydle wherby Tyndale techeth all thynge playnely Nor thys poynt wyll neuer be well patched wyth hys felynge fayth and hystorycall as ye shall hereafter here when we come to the chapyter But yet agayn in the meane whyle bycause he speketh of repentaunt synners that they make the electe chyrche of Cryste I wolde wytte of hym whyther one parte of repentynge muste not be to repente heresyes If not then Crystes electe chyrche maye kepe them styll and be a chyrche of heretykes And on the tother syde yf a man muste repente hys heresyes then aske I Tyndale agayne how shall an vnlerned man knowe whyche they be The preacher shall tell theym sayth Tyndale So saye we to But what yf y â— preachers do not agre therin how shall he know the trewe preachers fro the false Lette hym loke on the scrypture sayth Tyndale and therby shall he iudge them by the ryght rule of the worde of god But therto I saye that all thynge that we be bounden to byleue and obserue is not wryten in scrypture as I haue in the thyrde boke more then playnely by the playne scrypture proued And besydes that vnlerned men are not able nor euery lerned man neyther surely to dyscerne and iudge the trewe sence of the scrypture in a greate thynge growen in debate and controuersye where playne textes of scrypture seme to speke for bothe the sydes And therfore it muste nedes be that there is by god prouyded and lefte some such suretye as maye brynge vs out of all suche perplexyte And that is as I haue sayde hys holy spyryte sent and lefte perpetually wyth hys chyrche to lede it so by hys owne promyse euer into all necessary trouth that who so here and byleue hys chyrche maye be sure that he can not be deceyued but that yf a false techer wold lede men out of the ryght fayth the chyrche of Cryste shall reproue hym and condempne hym and put the people in certentye For whyche cause saynt Poule sayth that the chyrche is the fyrme â—tablysshâ—mente and the pyller of trouth for the inuyolable suerty of doctryne And therfore that can neuer be no chyrche but a knowen chyrche But then sayth Tyndale that it is trewe that there is all suretye in the chyrche of Cryste But he sayth that the chyrchâ— of Cryste is onely the nomber of repentynge synners that haue the felynge fayth whyche hym selfe descrybeth Then we aske hym wherby shall a man knowe them and be sure of them so that he maye vse them for hys sure and vndoutable iudges bytwene the two contrary preachers of whyche the tone is trewe the tother false It maketh no mater sayth he though ye knowe them not How shall I then be putte in surety by them but yf I knowe that they be the chyrche wyth whom god promysed to leue hys holy spyryte and whom he wylled euery man to here and to obay ye shall perceyue it sayth he by that ye se they be good men and shewe the frewtes of fayth in theyr lyuynge I can not be therby sure syth an ypocryte maye fayne them And also hym selfe graunteth after in hys chapyter that they synne and yet synne not so that though they synne not bycause of theyr felynge fayth and theyr repentaunce folowynge yet they maye ryght often do synne in suche wyse that they maye do and in dede do many suche abomynable dedes as men be hanged for and worthy for myche lesse and suche that them selfe shulde for the same sauynge for theyr felynge fayth be dampned in hell perpetually from which none hystorycall fayth could kepe them as Tyndale sayth Now then yf he saye trewe it is impossyble for me to knowe the electe chyrche of felynge faythfull repentaunte synners to take the sure iudgement by Then yf he walke as it were in a mase and come to the fyrste poynte agayne and say it forcheth not for they shall be decerned by the scrypture it selfe that gappe haue I so stopped all redy that he shall stycke styll at a stake reste hys bones in y â— busshes ere euer he gete out there wherfore wheÌ„ he shall se hym self vnable to defend hys owne chosen vnknowen chyrche in y â— poynt in which it sholde specyally serue that is for y â— sure techyng of the trew fayth he shall then fynde none other shyft but to loke whyther he myght make the catholyke knowen chyrche to fall in the lyke defawte and shall aske vs how we do knowe the trew chyrch of Cryste by whose doctryne we maye be sure of the ryght bylyefe where vnto we shall answere that therin can no man be deceyued For it is the comon knowen chyrche of all crysten people not gone out nor caste oute Thys hole body bothe of good and badde is the catholyke chyrche of Cryste whyche is in thys worlde very sikelyâ— hath many sore meÌ„bres as hath somtyme the naturall body of a man and some sore astonyed and for a tyme colde and dede whyche yet catcheth hete and lyfe agayne yf it be not precyded and cut of from the body Thys catholyke knowen chyrch is that mystycall body be it neuer so syke whereof the pryncypall hed is Cryste Of whyche body whyther the successour of saynt Peter be his vycar generall and hed vnder hym as all crysten
by the outwarde dedes the chyldren of god and the chyldren of the deuyll be made manyfest open For they were not open by the dede yf notwythstandyng the most horryble dedes y t coulde be deuysed yet theyr secret vnknowen fayth frayltye dyd euer kepe it secrete hydde vnknoweÌ„ whyther they were at the dede doyng y â— chyldren of god or the deuyll And therfore where as Tyndale wold make vs wene y â— hym selfe hys holy felowes had by theyr felynge fayth the spyryte of god in such a specyall maner entred in to theyr holy brestes y t none of theyr abomynable dedes coulde be any dedely synne bycause y t the spyryte sayth he dwelleth styll within them saynt IohnÌ„ sayth in the very ende of that thyrde chapyter who so kepeth goddes commauÌ„demeÌ„tes in hym god dwelleth And by that marke we know sayth saynt IohnÌ„ y â— there is dwellynge in vs of the spyryt y t he hath gyuen vs. By whych wordes he declareth clerely y t when these holy heretykes breke his coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„tes by those horryble dedes which Tyndale hym selfe confesseth y â— they do as all the worlde seeth frere Luther do in weddyng the nuÌ„ne wyth the brech of theyr both vowys agaynst the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t of god which hath in holy scripture expressely coÌ„maunded them to kepe and fulfyll theyr vowys saynt IohnÌ„ I saye declareth agaynste Tyndals doctryne clerely that when we se suche dedes in them we maye well perceyue by them that there is at that tyme neuer a whyt of goddes good spyryte in them But now no man dowteth whyther of the two better vnderstode saynt IohnÌ„ whyther Tyndale or saynt IohnÌ„ hym selfe And therfore good crysten readers whyle ye se that these holy fathers and authours of these heresyes prechynge so sayntly of theyr felynge fayth boste them self and theyr felowes for the sure chyldreÌ„ of god that bycause of the spyryte can neuer synne of purpose and therfore neuer synne dedely but be certayne and sure of grace and saluacyon and yet ye se for all this that beyng professed muÌ„kes and freres they fall to the fleshely felynge of noÌ„nes of longe purpose and styll perceuer therin fynally dyuers dye therin to ye maye byleue here saynte IohnÌ„ that saye they what they wyll they be the deuyls chyldren in dede all theyr holy doctryne is vtterly no thynge ellys but very frantyke blasphemy And therfore fynally where as Tyndale knytteth vp all hys mater wyth a quyppe agaynste me and sayth that bycause euery man that onys hath the ryght fayth is born of god and therby hath the seed of god in hym whych preserueth hym so that he can neuer synne therfore it is sayth he a false conclusyon that M. More holdeth how a man maye haue a ryght fayth ioyned wyth all kyndes of abomynacyon and synne ye se now that hys owne conclusyoÌ„ is so clerely proued false that it letteth my conclusyon no thynge at all And yet shall I forther towche hys quyppe where it shall haue better place after that we shall come to the chapyters in whyche he shall open and declare hys vttermost what he calleth fayth But fyrste wyll I consyder a lytell hys ferther progresse in thys chapyter in whych he goth forth in thys wyse Tyndale And yet euery member of Crystes congregacyon is a synner and synneth dayly some more and some lesse For it is wryten .1 IohnÌ„ 1. yf we saye we haue no synne we deceyue our selues and the trâ—eth is not in vs. And agayn yf we saye we haue not synned we make hym a lyar and hys worde is not in vs. And Paul Rom. 7. sayth That good whych I wolde that do I not but that euyll whyche I wolde not that do I. So it is not I. that do it sayth he but synne that dwelleth in me More Lo now ye here hys wurshypfull rydle in the fyrst part wherof he hath all redy shewed vs that a trewe member of Crystes chyrch synneth not bycause it hath y â— ryght fayth and so is borne agayne of god and hath hys spyryt and by cause of that can neuer synne And now he sheweth vs in the tother parte of hys rydle that euery trewe member of Crystes chyrche for all that he neuer synneth yet he synneth dayly And as he proued the fyrste parte by the wordes of saynt IohnÌ„ falsely taken and vnderstanden so doth he now proue vs the seconde parte by the wordes of sayâ—t Poule vnderstanden construed as falsely as euer he coÌ„strued saynt IohnÌ„ For where as saynt Poule in hys pystle to y â— Romayns speketh of the pronytye and mocyons in the fleshe remaynynge as the relyques of orygynall synne wherby we be tycled towarde great actuall dedely synnes and dayly fall in to venyall Tyndale as appereth by hys wordes nexte after folowynge wolde we sholde wene that saynt Poule meneth that euery trew member may dayly fall into great horryble dedes as periury manslaughter and aduowtry of weykenes and fraylte and that all those abomynable dedes be no dedely synnes yet but venyall euerychone bycause it is not the man that doth it but the synne that dwelleth in hym And whyle saynte Poule sayth the wordes of hym selfe Tyndale so layeth them forth that he wolde we sholde take it that saynt Poule hym selfe â— or at the lest wyse yf not hym selfe yet the synne that dwelled in hym coÌ„mytted in very dede many suche horryble dedes as the deuyll and the fleshe dyd moue and styre hym to And then was it well lykely that he dyd inough For well ye wote y â— deuyll wolde not fere to set hys fâ—eshe on fyre and tempte hym to lechery manslaughter both whyle he fered not to â—empte our sauyour hym selfe to glotony couetyse pryde deuyll worshyp and selfe slaughteâ— to And saynt Poule hym self coÌ„fesseth that for a medicyne preseruatyue agaynst pryde there was gyuen hym the angell of Sathan the prycke of the flesh to dabbe hym in the necke and make hym stowpe and beâ—â— hym And it appereth playnely that Tyndale taketh saynte Poulys wordes spokeÌ„ of hym selfe to sygnyfye not oneâ—y styrynge and incytacyons towarde dedely synfull dedes but also the very dedes commytted and done as he calleth it of fraylte by the vyolence of those mocyons For yf he meane not so he layed those wordes nothyng to hys purpose as it appereth openly by those hys owne wordes folowynge Tyndale Thus are we synners and no synners No synners yf thou loke vnto the professyon of our hartes towarde the lawe of god on our râ—pentâ—unce and sorow thâ—t we haue bothe bycause we haue synned and also bycause we be yet full of synne styll and vnto the promyses of mercy in our sauyâ—ur Cryste and vnto our fayth Synners are we yf thou loke vnto the â—rayltye of our flesshe whyche is as the weakenesse of one that is newly recâ—uered out of a greate dysease by the reason wherof our dedes are imperfâ—t and by the reason wherof also
in a man yet he may that bylyefe styll staÌ„dyng fall in to many dedely synnes without any wrong opynâ—o taken agayst the ryght bylyefe now cometh Tyndale agreeth vnto that so y â— he I be therin agreed But than wolde he fayne saue his worshyp with sayeng nay therfore he denyeth that we be agreed For he sayth y t the thyng which I call the ryght fayth is not the ryghte fayth For though a man byleue â—ayth he neuer so ryght without any wronge opynioÌ„ in any artycle of the fayth yet but yf he haue trewe trust full vndowted hope in god cheryte therwith also which sayth he must nedes ensew therupon els hath he no ryghte fayth And so Tyndale auoydeth me not with any prouynge that abomynacyon and synne can not stande wyth the thynge that is in dede a ryghte fayth but that abomynable synne can not stande with the thynge whych hym selfe calleth the ryght fayth bycause it pleaseth not hym to call a ryght fayth that bylyefe that is right inough and hath none artycle wronge therin for as farforth as perteyneth to the nature of onely fayth but yf it be both fayth and hope and cheryte to wherin amonge all lerned men that here vs bothe and se hys sotle shyfte he wynneth so mych worshyp therby that he maye surely be mych ashamed therof as often as he thynketh therof But marke well good reder that he coÌ„meth forth after and sayth that hym selfe and suche other hys holy companyons the trewe membres of theyr electe chyrch as haue y â— ryght fayth and the felynge fayth to that is to wytte after hys owne doctryne full fayth full hope and cheryte bothe so surely that it can neuer fall from theym maye yet for all theyr ryght fayth fall into abomynable synfull dedes vpoÌ„ great occasyons brekyng out of the frute of the synne that remayneth in theyr synfull membres and maye for a space perseuer in those horryble synfull dedes and yet all that whyle theyr ryght fayth doth contynue and theyr abomynable synfull dedes to gyder And so by Tindale hym selfe all abomynacyon and synne maye stande to gyther wyth the ryght fayth that is not onely wyth the ryght bylyefe alone as I affermed but wyth the ryght bylyefe wyth good hope cheryte to as Tyndale sayth whyche I say is playnely false For surely the thynne sotelty therof my groce wytte can in no wyse perceyue And thus good chrysten reders for conclusyon ye now clerely se to what folysshe conclusyon he hath brought hym selfe in conclusyon and all thys chapyter of his with his royall rydle of synnynge and not synnynge is royally ronne to ryghte nought How â— chrysten man can not erre and how he may yet erre Tyndale ANd as they synne not so they erre not And on the tother syde as they synne so they erre but neuer vnto deth and damnacyon For they neuer synne of purpose nor holde any errour malycyously synnynge agaynste the holy goost but of weakenes and infyrmitye As good obedyent chyldren though they loue theyr faders commaundementes yet breke them ofte by the reason of theyr weakenes And as they can not yelde them selues bond vnto synne to serue it euyn so they can not erre in any thynge that sholde be agaynste the promyses whiche are in Chryste And in other thynges theyr errours be not vnto dampnacyon though they be neuer so greate bycause they holde them not malycyously More I Shall good chrysten readers make no longe worke aboute thys chapyter For syth the hole somme therof is as ye se no thynge ellys in effecte but that the trew membres of Tyndals electe chyrche do ofteÌ„ erre and yet neuer erre euyn in lyke maner as they often or rather alwaye synne and yet neuer synne whyche hys manyfolde folyshe heresyes in euer synnynge and neuer synnynge I haue many maner wyse playnely refelled and confuted in the chapyter nexte before I maye therfore wyll â—ake a great dele the lesse laboure and busynesse in thys I wyll therfore but put you in remembraunce that all hys mater standeth onely in thys that hys trewe membres of hys electe chyrche after that they haue onys goten the trewe fayth that saynt Peter confessed vnderstandyng the same in suche erronyous wyse as Luther and Tyndale teche them wyth many playne pestylent heresyes therin as I haue before openly and clerely declared you and when that they haue onys attayned that fayth not wyth an hystorycall maner as a man maye beleue a story but wyth a felyng fasshyon as the chyld byleueth that the fyre is hote bycause he hath burned hys fynger as Tyndale wyll tell you in a nother chapyter after who so sayth he hath onys in suche a fasshyon attayned and goten that fayth that is to wytte who so euer is ones enfect with â—hose heresyes in such a fast felyng fashyon can neuer after erre daÌ„pnably And why For two causes sayth Tyndale One bycause y â— lyke as they can not synne of purpose but of weykenesse infyrmyte so can he neuer erre in any thynge at all y t shuld be agaynst the promyses that are in Chryste A nother cause is bycause what other errour so euer such a trew faythfull electe meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch happen to falle into so that it be not agaynst the promyses that are in Chryst can not be daÌ„pnable be it neuer so grete all though the trueth that is contrary to that errour be wryten sayth Tyndale euyn in the very gospell it selfe And why can it be no dedely synne bycause sayth Tindale that an elected men ber of his can not holde it malycyously So that by this ye maye clerely se that Tyndale affermeth techeth for a treuth that in all other thinges bysyde the promyses a trewe member of hys electe chyrche maye somtyme erre but neuer malycyously and that is to wytte neuer but of weykenesse and furmentye as hym selfe hath often all redy declared And therfore they can not in any suche thynge synne dedely nor dampnably be the thynge neuer so greate and also wryten in the very gospell as he sayth after to By thys also ye may clerely se that concernyng the promyses that are in Chryst he sayth that a trew member can not erre at all neyther malycyously nor of fraylte For syth he graunteth errour of infyrmyte in other thynges onely that towch not the promyses ye may clerely perceyue that concernynge the promyses he holdeth that a trew meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch can not erre at all in any maner of wyse neyther of malyce nor purpose nor fraylte nor weykenes nor infyrimte So y t as he putteth iÌ„ all other poyntes onely malycyouse errour to be dedely synne daÌ„pnable so putteth he concernyng the promyses euery maner of errour to be dedely synne and daÌ„pnable be it of purpose and malice or of infyrmyte fraylte or weykenes and for that cause a trew member of his electe chyrche can neuer fall therin For yf he ment
not thus he wolde not so deuydeâ— these two kyndes of errour one agaynst the promyses and the other agaynst other thinges as ye se hym do but yf it were to teche vs that the tone were dedely synne and daÌ„pnable euery waye and the tother neuer dampnable but yf it were holden of malice and that therfore the trew member of his electe chyrch maye erre in the tone kynde so it be not malycyously bycause that ellys it is not dampnable nor dedely synne But in the tother concernyng the promyses he can neuer erre at all And why but bycause that euery errour therin were dedely synne and dampnable that one of his heresyes is as ye haue herd byfore that a trew member of the elected chyrche can neuer synne dedely And thys ye se therfore is hys playne doctryne whych what treuth it hath we shall nowe playnely shew you Let vs fyrst begynne with errours agaynst y â— promyses in Chryst. And therin let Tyndale tell vs fyrste wherfore a trew meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch can not erre in any thynge that is agaynst the promyses y â— be in Chryst in suche wyse as they may in other great artycles of the fayth that be no promyses what hath he other to say but bycause y â— euery maner errour though it be not holden malycyously is yet dedely synne daÌ„pnable yf it towch any promyse and that none other errour is dedely synne or dampnable whyche towcheth no promyse but yf it be holden malycyously Then must we forther aske hym wherby he woteth and wherby he proueth y t euery maner errour in euery artycle of any promyse y t is in Chryst is dedely synne daÌ„pnable though it come but of weykenes and fraylty and none â—rrour in any other artycle be it neuer so great is dampnable dedely but yf it be holden of malyce we must aske hym wherby he knoweth y â— it is inowgâ— for his saluacyoÌ„ to byleue y â— promyse of god in Chryst thaâ— thorow Chryste he shal be saued byleue not that Chryste the holy goste be one equale god wyth y â— father by which thre persons one god he shal be saued For y e Chryst is one god equale with the father it is no promise made vnto vs nor y t the holy goste is so neyther but it is a thyng by god tolde vnto vs. And I maruayle mych by what menys Tindale can proue vs that there is any lesse parell in not byleuynge of goddes other wordes then in the wordes of hys promyses syth he byndeth vs to byleue them both a lyke The cause of our saluacyoÌ„ is not the bylyefe of the promyse nor the truste therin neyther of any proper nature of that bylyefe in the promyse no more then the nature of our good workes is able of it selfe for our saluacyon but the ordynaunce of god that it pleaseth hym to saue vs for our obedyence of hys commaundement bothe in the bylyefe and the worke For as he coulde yf it so pleased hym brynge vs all vnto the blysse of heuen wythout any good worke at all so coulde he yf he lyste brynge vs all thyther wythout any fayth at all For he coulde brynge vs thyther wythout any knowledge gyuen vs therof tyll we came thyther and had it So it appereth clerely that the cause of the saluacyon standeth all in the obedyence of goddes coÌ„maundement wherby he byddeth vs and by hys byddyng byndeth vs to captyue our vnderstandynge in to the obedyence of fayth and byleue hys promyses Now yf thys be thus as of trouth it is what dowte is there but that we be as vpon lyke rewarde so vpon lyke parell payne bounden to byleue all other thynges y t god telleth vs as well as the thynges whych he promyseth vs. And therfore yf Tyndale wyll to the contrary loke to be byleued of any man in thys poynt he muste accordynge to hys owne ruleâ— brynge forth playne and open scrypture by whyche god hath tolde vs by wrytynge that yf we byleue onys hys promyses care for no more For as for all other thynges that be no promyses he wyll that we be at lyberty to byleue as we lyste so that there be no malyce in vs. And why at more lybertye of byleuynge god in hys other wordes then in hys promyses I can not perceyue what cause Tyndale can imagyne but yf he be so madde to thynke that god wyll in all hys other tales that hym lyste to tell vs though they be wryten in the very gospell as Tyndale sayth after haue vs yet at lybertye in beleuynge hym bycause hym selfe wolde be at lybertye to tell vs for hys pleasure somtyme trew talys and somtyme suche as Tyndale telleth that is to wytte vntrewth and lyes Surely this is a maruelouse tale of Tyndale in my mynde a maruelouse dyfference that he putteth bytwene the bylyefe of the promyses and the bylyefe of all the other artycles of the fayth As though the bylyefe of the promyses onely were so farre aboue the bylyefe of any other artycle when euery man that any wytte hath maye well and clerely se that the bylyefe of the promyses do so depende vpon some other artycles that the bylyefe of those artycles gone the bylyefe of the promyses and all to gyther were gone As who so were as many haue ben so madde to byleue that there were no god at all wyth hym were goddes promyses quyte gone And hys synne were as greate that erred in not byleuynge there were any god as hys that byleuynge there were a god erred yet in that he byleued not that euer he made any promyse to man And yet in goddes promyses Tyndale meneth onely y â— promyses of god made vnto mankynde for so farre go saynt Peters wordes qui in hunc mundum venisti is Tyndals exposycyon to And therfore as for Tyndale ye se well so that he byleue that hys electe chyrche of mankynde shal be saued he maye wythout any parell chese whyther he wyll byleue that euer any angell is eternally saued or not notwythstandyng that Chryst sayd of saynt IohnÌ„ the baptyst that the lest in heuen was greter then he yet bycause it was but a tale tolde by the mouth of Chryst and not a promyse made specyally syth it was no promyse of any gyfte gyuen to man Tyndale maye dystruste it and denye it yf he lyste yf hys wytte haue any such wekenes and so that he do it not of malice for all that it is playnely wryten in the very gospell and there tolde by goddes owne mouth Concernynge yet the promyses made to man let vs coÌ„syder whych thynges be promyses and whych thynges be not the very promyses but other artycles besyde That we shal be saued thorow Chryst and by Chrystes passyon is a promyse And yet that Chryst hym selfe was the same very person by whom that dede shold be done is more properly a tale then a promyse And it maye be that a man
byleuyng the promyse that mankynde shall be saued thorow Chryst may yet erre in not byleuynge y â— Iesus the sonne of Mary was that Chryste And of trouth eyther in that errour or very nere to that errour be all the hole secte of Iewes So that it is as great parell not to byleue god in hys tale wheÌ„ he sayed thys is my welbeloued sonne in whom I myche delyte as not to byleue hym in hys promyse made vnto Habraam that of hys seed sholde such a sauyour come For it is not all one to promyse that of hym sholde one come by whom the worlde sholde be saued and to tell hym thys is the man that in my promyse I spake of For a promise and a tale be not both one thynge For though euery promyse by in dede a tale syth no man can make a promyse but yf he tell it yet is not euery tale a promyse as euery chylde perceyueth And therfore saynte Peter toke a sure waye when he sayed Thou arte Chryst that arte come into thys worlde takyng it for a pryncypall poynt to byleue goddes tale For the tale that thys was he whycâ—â— as our sauyour sayde the father in heuen had hym selfe tolde vnto Peter that tale Peter confessed that Iesus was Chryste whyche was then comen into the worlde But the promyse whyche was the sauynge of the worlde that sholde be wrought in hym that thyng saynt Peter spake not of there as a thyng byleued and loked for afore nor of the mene of the sauyng that it shulde be by hys passyon that thynge saynte Peter as Tyndale sayth at that tyme knewe not of so that y e tale and the promyse were not all one But surely coÌ„cernyng the bylyefe of goddys promyses Tyndale semeth to fare as the Iewes do For lyke as many of them byleue that thorow Chryste the world shall be saued and yet they lese the frute of that bylyefe bycause they wyll not knowe who is Chryste euyn so Tyndale sayth that he byleueth Chrystes promyse made vnto hys chyrche here in erth that hys holy spyryte shal be therwith vnto the worldes ende and teche it and lede it into euery trouth But he leseth yet the frute of that bylyefe yf he byleue it as he sayth he doth bycause that he wyll not knowe whyche is Chrystes â—hyrche here in erth But lyke as the Turkes in stede of the trew sauyour of the world worshyp the false deceyuer Machomet so Tyndale in stede of the trew catholyke chyrche of Chryst of whych chyrch Chryst wolde that euery man sholde lerne the â—routh whyche the holy goste by Chrystes promyse techeth and euer shall tech vnto itâ— and whyche chyrche muste for that cause nedes be a congregacyoâ— knowen Tyndale taketh not onely a secrete scatered company vnknowen but also a rable of fals malycyouse heretykes techyng to the doctryne of goddes spyryt abydyng by Chrystes promyse in his catholyke chyrche euyn clene the contrary And also where as Chryst when he turned the brede into his own precyouse body the wyne into his blessed blode coÌ„mauÌ„ded the same to be done for euer in his chyrch after in remeÌ„brauÌ„ce of his passyoÌ„ dyd in so coÌ„mauÌ„dyng make a faythfull promyse y t hym selfe wolde be for euer with hys chyrch in that holy sacrameÌ„t for a perpetuall memory of hys bytter passyon that he suffered for vs wolde gyue hys owne flesshâ— that suffered passyon hys owne blode that was shedde in hys passyon to abyde perpetually with vs accordynge to hys owne wordes spoken vnto hys chyrche when he sayed I am with you all dayes vnto the ende of the worlde Tyndale wyll not now byleue that promyse at all but as I haue in my fyrst boke by hys owne wordes proued you maketh mockes and mowes at that blessed sacrament and calleth it but cake brede and reasoneth it rather for starche full lyke a starke heretyke god wote and sayth it is neyther body nor bloude at all And thus where he so hyghly magnifyeth the bylyefe of goddes promyses onely settynge all other artycles of the fayth as thynges of a seconde sorte hym selfe byleueth as ye se the promyses as lytell as the tother But now let vs go ferther in hys wordes se for what cause he sayth that none other errour in any thynge saue the promyses can be dampnable be they neuer so greate Lo thus he sayth Tyndale In other thynges that be not the promyses theyr errours be not vnto dampnacyon though they be neuer so greate bycaâ—se they holde them not malycyously As now yf some when they rede in the new testament of Chrystes bretherne wolde thynke that they were our ladyes chyldren after the byrth of Chryst bycause they knowe not the vse of the spekynge of the scrypture or of the Hebrues how that nygh kynnesmen be called bretherne or happely they myghte be Iosephes chyldren by some fyrste wyfe neyther can haue any to teache hym for Tyranny that is so greate yet coude it not hurte hym thowgh he dyed therin bycause it hurteth not the redempcyon that is in Chrystes blood For though she had none but Chryst I am therfore neuer the more saued neyther yet the lesse though she had had And in suche lyke an hundred that plucke not a mans fayth from Chryste they myghte erre and yet be neuer the lesse saued no though the coÌ„trary were wryteÌ„ in the gospell For as in other synnes as soone as they be rebuked they repent euen so here as soone as they were better tawght they sholde immedyately knowledge theyr errour and not resyste More Here haue ye good reders the reason and y e cause wherfore the trew membres of Tyndals chyrch can neuer synne dedely though they erre in any artycle that is no promyse be the article neuer so great The cause is sayth he bycause that lyke wyse as in all other synnes as soone as they be rebuked they repente euyn so as soone as they be better taught they repeÌ„t theyr errour and byleue the trouth and resyste not and for that cause it is no dedely synne in the mene season before they be rebuked and taught better all though they dyed in those errours were the artycles neuer so great and the contrary trouth wryten in the gospell so that they be none of the promyses Thys is the hole somme and effecte of thys hole chapyter though he tryfle with other thynges bytwene And therfore wyll we fyrste aske hym by what scrypture or by what reason he proueth that euery person whych is elected to be saued shall repent as soone as euer he is rebuked of any synne that he doth He wyll shew peraduenture that Dauid dyd so happely some other to That wyll be a very bare argumente Dauid was an electe person and he dyd so ergo euery elected person doth so Thys argument wyll be very lyke the forme of arguynge that yonge chyldren vse in grammer scholes Asinus meus habet
the cytye and sayde come and se a man that hath tolde all that euer I dyd is he not Cryste and many of the Samarytanes byleued bycause of the saynge of the woman how that he had told her all that euer she dyd and went oute vnto hym and desyred hym to come in whych fayth was but an opynyon and no fayth that could haue lasted or haue brought out frute but when they haâ—de herde Cryste the spyryte wrought and made them fele Wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde we byleue not nowe bycause of thy saynge but bycausâ— we haue harde oure selfes and knowe that he is Chryste the sauyour of the worlde For Chrystys preachynge was wyth power and spyryte that maketh a man fele and knowe and worke to and not as the scrybes and pharysyes preached and as cures make a man redy to câ—st his gorge to heare them raue and rage as madde men And therfore sayth the scrypture cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh â—elshe his arme that is to say his strength Anâ— euen so cursed is he that hath no nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so say And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More Lo good crysten reders here haue I geuen you hys whole tale to gether to the ende of his whole chapyter whyche houerly loked on and redde ouer plesauntly with hym that lyketh hyt ere euer he loke on yt for fauoure of the secte can not but seme very gay But who so consyder yt aduyse yt well he shall fynde not one pyece of treuthe therin farther then I haue all redy shewed you in the end of hys fyrste solucyon where I touched in few wordes scant spendynge foure lynys therin that y â— mynde of saynâ— Austayn was and is I wene of all good men besydes that when we byleue the chyrche eyther in knowynge whyche is the scrypture or in the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstandynge of the scrypture god both preuenteth vs in geuyng vs the occasyon and wurketh wyth vs and we wyth hym into the perfytynge of our consent and bylyefe as he doth towarde the perfayt accomplysshement of euery thynge wherby we walke towarde our saluacyon towarde whyche we can no thynge do wythout hym as hym selfe sayth wythoute me nothynge can you do so that the inwarde secrete cause wurkynge wyth vs is hym selfe But ordynaryly god vseth outwarde meanys and instrumentes such as euery man may sumwhat by the same gyue a reason and cause of hys owne faythe to an other man and therby tell hym that for the same causes the man to whome he telleth theym sholde of good reason folowe and byleue a lyke And in these meanes lyke as god vseth the bodyly senses whyche we call the fyue wyttes as wayes and meanes towarde that vnderstandynge whyche men attayne by reason though there be somtyme bytwene the reason and the bodyly senses some debate and variaunce so dothe he vse bothe the seruyse of the bodyly senses and of the reason of the soule towarde the seruyse of the fayth addynge therwyth bycause it is a thyyge farre aboue the nature of them bothe hys owne supernaturall ayde and helpe of hys supernall grace to preuent vs wyth occasyons and mocyons of bylyefe and walkynge on wyth vs excepte we leue of our selfe to the perfaytynge of bylyefe in our hartes and helpynge vs to inclyne oure myndes into the credence of those outwarde causes and motyues whyche wythout hys helpe in thynges ordeyned of god for the waye to heuynwarde we sholde not haue done nor of goddes ordynary course we sholde not haue byleued wythout some such outwarde sensyble causes neyther as is prechynge and myracles and some suche other And therfore as I before shewed you saynte Austayne all be it that without helpe of god he byleued not the catholyke chyrche nor wythout helpe of god knewe and byleued the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche yet he alledged vnto those heretykes the Manichays not that inwarde cause the secrete helpe of god that wroughte wyth hys wyll and hys reason in geuynge credence to those outwarde causes for whyche he sayth that he byleued the chyrche for therin myghte the Manicheys fayne theym selfe hys matchys say that the were inspyred and that they felte theyr inspyracyon in theyr hartes so felyngly that therby they perceyued that Manicheus theyr archeretyke was the very apostle of Cryst and that saynt Austayne eyther had no suche felynge or ellys a false felynge and was begyled And therfore as I saye saynt Austayne layed them not that inwarde cause but the outwarde causes of hys byleuynge the chyrche whyche were so good and effectuall that the heretykes neyther coulde nor neuer can be able to brynge the lyke for them selfe And then layeth he the same chyrch by those outwarde reasons so proued trewe for the outwarde open cause of the knowlege and bylyefe of the very scrypture and then doth the scrypture beynge by that outwarde cause that is to wytte by the chyrche well perceyued and knowen for the word of god bere wytnesse also is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowlege that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrch of Cryst here in erth that all other are vtterly fayned false bothe by the manyfolde textes of the scryptute expressely declaryng it as saiÌ„t Austayn sheweth also for that very reason sheweth that god gyuynge the gyfte of knowlege which is his trew scrypture to a chyrch vnto none but one or by that one wolde neuer gyue that specyall goostely gyfte and prerogatyue vnto any false chyrche and than byd the trew chyrche go lerne the trouth of the false Now good chrysten readers thys waye went saynt Austayne wyth suche outwarde causes as myghte of reason lede the reader wyth hym But now cometh Tyndale and seynge that he can not auoyde the reason of saynt Austayn neyther wyth samples of saynte IohnÌ„ and the pharyseys whyche he broughte in dysguysed of dyuers fasshyons to make one answere seme twayne nor wyth false glosynge of saynt Austaynes wordes wherin ye se Tyndale proued playne false he cometh now and confesseth that same outwarde cause of fayth vnto the scrypture grauntyng that hym selfe and euery man ellys knoweth it and byleueth it fyrst thorow the catholyke chyrch But then flyeth he forth frome the fayth of the chyrche vnto hys felynge fayth by which he now knoweth byleueth y â— scrypture as he sayth and no lenger by the chyrche And â—herin he playeth by hys felynge fayth as hys felowes do by theyr remembraunce For yf any heretyke be taken and examyned vpon his oth of any maner thynge whych he wyll not confesse for hope that it can not be proued nor dare well deny it for fere that it wylbe proued as whyther he sayd such a thynge
were then all his solucyon confounded But this peyce is also nought for a nother thynge For in this patche he supposeth that for y e fayth of Cryste there coulde not be gyuen so good an outwarde cause but that some better myght be made agaynst yt or at the leste some suche as myght appere the better But I say that excepte obstynacy forwardnes be in the mynde of hym to whom yt shall so seme yt is ellys a thynge impossyble that euer there shall be layed so great outewarde thynges agaynste the fayth of Cryst as shall be layed for yt But the reasons all redy made and the thynges all redy shewed for y â— fayth are suche as euery resonable man standynge but indyfâ—erent and voyd of obâ—tinate forwardnâ—sse yf the mater were but the trouth of a â—tory and not the meane of maÌ„nis saluacyon might well descerâ—e all that may be made agaynst yt to be farre the weker parte And now beynge this mater the meane of mannys saluacyon towarde the bylyef wherof god worked Tyndales tale is myche the flebler For ellys geue we them a great excuse that lest not to byleue the trouthe But oure lorde sayth vnto the prechers of hys sayth whome he sent to preache to all the worlde that he wolde geue theym a â—outh and wysedome therin that no man shold be able to resyâ—te the reasons wyth whych they shold conferme yt In â—hych wordes our lord ment not y t euery man wolde for all those reasons of prophecyes myracles martyrs and many other thynges bysydes consente and agree to byleue but that all be yt of abâ—tynacy they wolde not yet to theym that were indyfferent yt sholde well apthat they coulde neuer be able sufâ—ycyently to answere theÌ„ but that they myghte euer by playne outwarde proues be sustancyally confounded and the trew byleuer able alway to declare to the false and faythlesse an outward cause suffycyent of his fayth and hopâ— whyche the tother myghte frowardly saye he wolde not but reasonably could he neuer say why he shold not beleue and geue credence vnto And thus ys lo the fyrste parte of Tyndales dyâ—tynccyon deâ—troyed Now is the seconde partâ— his felyng fayth whych is he sayth that bylyefe and fayth not that a man hath goten and conceyued in hys harte by herynge of other men but by y e playne experyeÌ„ce of his owne felynge And wyth this felyng fayth byleueth he y â— batayle that hath not herd other men talke therof told yt hym but hath hym self both ben present therat aud also ben wounded therin Nor no man byleueth wyth the felyng fayth that the fyre is hote tyll he haue at the leste wyse burned his fynger in yt For all ys but hystorycall fayth byfore Nowe good cristen reders by this tale Tyndale telleth vs that all the credence whyche he gaue vnto the chyrche in takynge the bokes of the foure euangelystes for the very gospelles of Cryste was all to gether but lyke Tyndales mothers blowynge vppon her fynger and therby makynge that prety babe her sonne byleue that the fyre was hote and hadde burned her and that he wolde haue byleued her no lesse yf she hadde tolde hym the same by a cuppe of colde water And that in lyke wyse as he byleued the chyrche that the gospelles were holy scrypture so shold he haue byleued theym yf they hadde tolde hym that a tale of Robben hode hadde ben holy scrypture For syth all was but an hystorycall fayth all muste nedes haue ben one Consyder by the way good reder the dyfference betwene saynt Auâ—tayne and the good man Tyndale in theyr credence geuen vnto the chyrche Saynte Austayne byleued the chyrche in teachynge hym whyâ—h was the trewe scrypture bycause he perceyued well the same chyrch to be so declared by miracles many other menes to be y e trew chirch that therby he byleued that the doctryne therof coulde not be false and that therfore yt could not teache a tale of Robbyn hode to be the gospell of Cryâ—te Now Tyndale as ye se taketh the credeÌ„ce of the whole catholyke chyrch the â—â—der of euery maÌ„nys cristendome lyke his ovne moder blowynge vpon her fynger and therby makynge the babye byleue what she lyâ—te And therfore in this poynt wherin saynte Austayne and the good man Tyndale tell you two so dyuerse tales consyder well with your self the wysedom the lernynge the maners the vertue of those â—wo â—â—n and then of them both loke whome ye fynde beste and by myne aduyse euen hym byleue beste But now doth Tyndale he sayth byleue the trouth that not a tale of Roâ—ben hode but the bokes of the foure euangelystes be the tâ—â—w gospell of Chryâ—te bycause oure lorde â—ath hem self so taught it hym and so shewed yt hym now that all that he hath heâ—â—â— theâ—â—â— vyfore by the teachyng of the catholyque chyrche moueth hym nothynge at all for now he hath an inwarde profe and experyence therof and fully and sensybly feleth yt as he feleth the fyre hote by the burnynge of his fynger And as he feleth yt thus in hym selfe so he perceyueth yt is with all y â— other electes the meÌ„bers of his trew chyrch and that therfore of all them there is none that knowe the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche but by theyr owne sure secrete felynge suche as they fele when they burne they re fyngers This is the tale ye wote well that Tyndale telleth vs. But now is yt perde good reason that Tyndale tell vs also by what meane he proueth yt or ellys at the leste wyse that he tell vs some cause resonable wherfore we sholde in so straunge a mater byleue hys bare worde For furely though that in any such thynge as he wyll saye that he feleth hym selfe in his owne breste and theruppon take hys othe vppon hys honesty that he feleth yt in dede reason requyreth for lakke of other tryall that we byleue his owne worde consyderynge that we may be ledde to byleue hym by the long experieÌ„ce of the contynuall lyeng that we haue euer therfore fouÌ„den in him yet that the lyke felyng is also in all his felowes hartes how feleth he And therfore howe can he desyre that we sholde therin byleue hym wythoute profe namely syth we se that hys owne hyghe spyrytuall mayâ—ter mayster Martyne Luther hym selfe for all hys hygh fleshely vertues layeth not in that mater such feling for his owne fayth but well lyketh and mych alloweth the hystorycall fayth of saynte Austayne and playnely confesseth hym selfe that the chyrche that â—aynte Austayne spake of that is to wyt the knowen catholyke chyrch hath that gyft gyuen of god that yt shall perfytely dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men â—nd therfore â—hall neuer take and teache a tale of Robben hode for the trew scripture of god Now therfore as I say Tyâ—dale muste proue vs this felynge fayth at the lest wyse fâ—â— the fayth of his felowes or ellys shall
he woâ—eth that Cryste promysed and sent the same spyryte to hys chyrch to teche it lede it into all trewth and hym selfe also to dwell therin for euer And that the knowen catholyke chyrche is it that onely hath the same spyryte appereth clerely by thys that onely the knowen catholike chyrch hath in it declared and contynued the power For none other chyrche of Chryste is there in whyche the myracles contynue And therfore yf there were any such felyng fayth in any chyrche then must it be in thys chyrche then were thys chyrche the chyrche of Tyndals electes and then were ther wythall hys whole purpose loste Now yf he wyll not in any wyse agree that any papystes may be electes and haue the felynge fayth nor any man at theyr prechynge bycause they do but raue rage but the menne of Samary were electes must nedes haue the felyng fayth for this onely cause that is to wyt bycause our lord preched to them hym selfe so that ellys they could not at the prechynge of any other then let it lyke hym to remeÌ„ber that Cryste preched to many men his owne mouth of whyche there were some that thorow theyr frowarde wyll byleued neuer a whyt as for ensample the scrybes and pharyseys And some byleued at the fyrst full well afterward yet fell away as dyd almost all the mayny of his discyples when he tolde them of hys body and bloude that sholde be both mete drynke went they not from hym than as Tyndale hath done synnys for y â— self same cause bycause he wyll none other byleue but that it is onely â—ake brede wyne And hadde not Iudas Iscaryoth herd our lorde as often prech and as longe as dyd those men of Samary ye and byleued as well to somtyme and yet fell after to noughte as Tyndale is fallen now Nay sayth Tyndale Iudas neuer byleued How proueth Tyndale that agayneâ— For of all lykelyhâ—â— he dyd syth Cryste toke hym and made hym hys apostâ—e and sente hym forth to prech and forther as some good coÌ„mentours expowne these verses sayth of hym hym â—elfe If myne enemye had cursed me I myght haue susteyned borne it And also yf he that hated me had spoken hyghe wordes to me I wolde perauenture haue hydde me from hym But thou man of one mynde wyth me my guyde and myne acquayntauÌ„ce that dydest eate with me swete mere we walked togyther in the howse of god with one agreable mynd Here sayth our sauyour of hym not onely that he was his acquayntaunce famylyare and that they pleasauÌ„tely dyd eate to gyther but also that they were of one mynde onys walked in the howse of god wyth good consent togyther had Cryste ben of one mynde coÌ„sent with Iudas at any tyme yf Iudas had at no tyme beâ—e of the ryght bylyefe well wyll Tyndale say but yet hadde he but an hystorycall fayth not the felyng fayth Now where is then become y â— profe of Tyndals tale y â— the men of Samary muste nedes haue the felyng fayth bycause they spake with Cryste and coulde not haue so for all the womans wordes tyll they spake wyth Cryst yf Cryst spake wyth Iudas mych more then wyth them yet had Iudas but eyther hystorycall fayth or els no fayth at all or finally his felynge fayth fayled fell awaye wherupon it foloweth that there fayleth falleth away Tyndals hole tale wythall For how proueth he now that theyr bylyefe was a felynge fayth that neuer coulde fayle nor fall And thus ye se good reders how wysely Tyndale proueth hys dystynccyoÌ„ of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth by the sample of the Samarytanys by whych he proueth as ye se neyther one thynge nor other And fynally yf we graunte hym that all was there trew that he sayth that is to wytte that the men had the felynge fayth bycause they spake wyth Cryst mouth to mouth and that excepte hys personall prechyng theyr fayth had bene but an opynyon faynt feble and frutelesâ—e then were Tyndale yet brought vnto the wurste poynte of all For then must it nedes folow theron that neyther Luther nor Tyndale nor Huyskyn nor Suinglius can bynd vs to byleue that they haue the felynge fayth tyll they brynge vs forth good profe that they haue spoken not wyth other y â— preche them Crystes wordes but as the menne of Samary dyd euyn face to face wyth Crystes owne person present Now se ye well good chrysten reders that of all hys coÌ„clusyon of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth wheruppon fynally dependeth all hys purpose to wynd away wythall and â—hyfte hym selfe asyde he proueth vs neuer a pyece And yet as though there muste nedes be such a felynge fayth as he descrybeth he procedeth forth and sayth Tyndale The scrypture sayth cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh floshe his arme that is to say his strength And euen so cursed is he that hath none nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so saye And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More ye se good reders that these wordes waye to proue that of necessyte there muste be suche a felynge fayth as he assygneth For ellys maketh Tyndale as though no man coulde haue any other cause of hys fayth but the trust that he putteth in the man that telleth hym so and that saith he is a thynge accursed in the scrypture A lytell afore Tyndale alledged saynt Austayne in beleuynge the gospell for the chyrche now lo he calleth hym accursed for puttynge of men in so mych â—ruâ—te But I suppose the scrypture speketh of these prounde wordly folke that wene them selfe saufe inough by worldly strength and able to conquere wynne vp the world with multytude of men of whom the scrypture sayth that they put trust of vyctory some in horse some in charyotes These kynde of people do make flessh theyr arme not euery maÌ„ y â— byleueth an other in tellynge of a tale For they byleue not with theyr arme perde but as they walke with theyr haÌ„des bycause they cast them not of But Tyndale that dysdayneth to byleue the chyrche he is by goddes owne mouth accursed out of the chyrche For who so sayth ouâ— sauyouâ— wyll not here the chyrche take hym for a publycan and a very paynym But now good chrysten readers I haue declared you before that saynt Austayne in byleuynge the scrypture bycause of the authoryte of the chyrche and all we that do the lyke do not therby put our truste in man but in god that by hys inwarde spyryee and outwarde myracles enclyneth vs to byleue hys chyrche therin and yet by the same scrypture also confermeth the same bylyefe by hys great promyses therin conteyned and made vnto the same
a good lesson and a goodly gospell of this euangelycall doctour I wysse saynt Peter answered not Symon Magus so sore ye wote well But what syth there is no remedy wyth vs but that Tyndale wyll nedys dampne vs all in to Dymmynges daie yet lette vs beseche hym of hys comfortable counsayle for some other good felowes as haue bene by grace hytherto kepte and preserued frome suche vngodly coÌ„mynge into the fayth and haue so well resysted all credence of myracles and all mennes persuasyons that for any thynge that god coulde do by mene of men or myracles they stande yet clere aborde and byleue nothynge at all If some such good felowe wolde now beseche Tyndale to teache hym the meanes how he myghte gete hys felyng fayth what counsayle wold Tindale now gyue vnto hym wyll he byd hym repente hys vnbylyefeâ— yf he so byd hym the man wyll wene he mocketh hym For how canne he repente the not byleuynge of any artycle but yf he fyrste byleue that hys dutye is to byleue it and harde it is to coÌ„ceyue or imagyne that a man maye byleue that suche a poynte or suche a poynte euery mâ—n oughte to bylâ—ue but yf he fyrste byleue that poynt hym selfe And Tyndale hath also shewed vs that concernyng the byleuyng the electe can no thynge do at all tyll god make hym fyrste bothe for to se and fele and so forth and therfore when he telleth hym thys tale of bylyâ—f and then byddeth hym go and repente hys vnbylyefe byfore he tell hym how he maye fyrste come to the very felynge bylyefe the poore man maye well thynke that Tindale dâ—th but mocke hym what counsayle then wyll Tyndale gyue hym ferther wyll he tell hym that it is the lyberall fre gyfte of god and therfore aduyse hym to praye god to gyue it hym If Tyndale tell hym thus then the man callynge to mynde Tyndals formaâ—e tale that he hath wrytâ—n and taught that the wyll of man can no thynge wurke wyth god towarde god though it maye wurke wyth god towarde outwarde thynges and now thys prayour yf it lye not in hys wyll wherfore doth Tyndale aduyse hym to it And yf it lye in hys wyll yet syth by Tyndals tale it can no thynge do toward god and the turnynge of god to hym and hym to god For yf it coulde then could hys wyll do somwhat toward god whyche Tyndale doth expressely denye the pore man wyll wene that Tyndale doth yet but mocke More ouer syth Tyndale expressely mocketh all endeuoure of mannys wyll in subdewynge of hys reason into the seruyse of the fayth of Cryst and calleth it a betleblynd reason the man wyll soone se that Tyndale is hym selfe betleblynde yf he se not that it is then but a betleblynde counsayle to byd hym go pray therfore For well ye wote the selfe same mynde and eâ—tent of prayenge that god may make hym byleue is some endeuoure of hys owne wyll towarde the bylyefe And yet whenne Tyndale hath more ouer tolde vs yet more playnely that the man can by hys wyll no more do towarde the gettynge of the fayth then can the chylde in the begetynge of hys owne father and euery man well woteth that the chylde can not praye god to cause hys graundefather to bygete hys father thys man muste nedes perceyue that in byddynge hym to pray for the fayth Tyndale doth playnely mocke hym Fynally good faythfull reder I can not in good fayth perceyue what counsayle Tyndale can geue any man towarde saluacyon standyng his frantyke heresyes agaynst free wyll whyche as yt is in euery good and merytoryous worke preueÌ„ted by the goodnesse of god so doth yt in such as haue age and reason worke and walke on wyth god not in other thinges onely but with endeuour also toward fayth by credence geuynge bothe to myracles and good persuasyons of men whych thynges god hath here ordayned for the meanes towarde yt conuenyent for the state of this present lyfe and suffycyent for the iuste cause of damnacyon of all such as for lacke of theyr owne deuour and for frowardnes of theyr owne fre wyll do not vppon so suffycyent caases byleue syth that yf there lakked not endeuour vppon theyr owne parte the goodnes of god wolde haue assysted theym wyth his helpe to the perfeccyon and full infusyon of that grace in fayth hope and charite that but yf the wyll afterward fynally fall therfro shold bryng to the glorye from whyche they sholde neuer fall and towarde whych glory Tyndale standyng his heresy can as ye se bable he neuer so sayntly geue any man any couÌ„sayle forwarde but euen to syt styll and do nought and let god alone For as ye se playnely to this ende at last cometh all his holy heresy when yt is well examyned And therfore wolde not yet mayster More by glad to chaunge his fayth for Tyndales as faythlesse as false Tyndale calleth yt But now concludeth Tyndale all his coÌ„cclusyon thus Tyndale And hereby maye ye se that it is a playn and an euydeÌ„t coÌ„clusion as briâ—â—t as the sonne shinynge that the trouth of goddes worde dependeth not of 〈◊〉 treuth of the congregacyon More who euer sayde that yt dyd who was euer so madde to thynke that the trouth of goddes worde depended vppon the mouthes of any mortall men or any creature eyther in erthe or heuen but wythoute any outwarde dependens hath his solydyte substaunce and fastenes of and in yt self But the thynge that ys in questyon betwene vs ys not wherby Tondale knoweth and I also that goddes worde is trew But wherby he knoweth and I to whyche is the worde of god and bycause Tyndale and I be not agreed theruppon but I saye wryten and vnwryten and he but wryten onely I come nerer vnto hym therin aske hym how he knoweth whyche is the worde of god wryten that is to wyt whych is the very scrypture And theâ— say I that the certaynte of thys thynge euery man that ordynaryly hath yt coÌ„meth to yt by the catholyque chyrche And that I say trouth in this poynt I thynke that euery crysten man that knoweth which be the scrypturesâ— will for his owne part bere me weâ—nesse as holy saynt Austayn hath all redy downe for his parte in the wordes of his before remâ—mbred wryten agaynsâ— the Manycheis where he sayth I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto whyche sayenge of saynte Austayne ye se your selfe that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so â—ayntly glosed for an answere that they remayne styll vnanswered And therfore as for Tyndales coÌ„clusyon we wyll with good wyll graunte hym that yt is as clere as the sonne shynynge that the trewth of goddes wordes dependeth not vpon the trewth of the congregacyon But syth ye se good reders as clere as the sonne shyuynge that no man sayde the contrarye nor the questyon betwene vs was not whyther goddes worde were trewe bycause the chyrche
Austayne felt in the selfe thynge thaâ— saynte Austayne dyd then byleue as well as Tyndale doth now then dare I be bold to say that euery man and womaÌ„ y t any felyng hath can not fayle to fel Tindale for a proude fumblynge fole And that he so is in dede ye shall yet the more fully fele by this For yf yt were all trew that he sayde yet hath hys owne wordes double proued that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche of Cryste Fyrst in that I haue vppon his owne wordes proued you that yf he sayde trew yt muste therof nedes folowe that all crysten people beyng baptysed in childhed must haue the felyng fayth and then were they by his owne dyffynycyon the very chyrche Secundly now consydre well this good reders that as he sayth he byleueth not now no lenger whych is the trew scryptâ—re bycause the chyrch so teacheth hym but bycause he feleth yt writen in his herte by y e spyryte of god so sayth he that in lyke wyse he byleueth not now no lenger any artycle of the fayth bycause he fyndeth yt in the bokes but bycause he feleth yt wryten in hys owne harte by the spyryte of god Now sayth Tindale not nay but that as he came fyrst to the knowledge of the artycles of the fayth by the preaching or redynge of the bokes of the scrypture so came he fyrste to the knowledge whych was the scripture by the teachyng of the knowen catholyque chyrche Now say I therfore that grauÌ„tyng hym to say well and trew in that he sayth be byleueth no leger now the artycles of his fayth for the bokes of the scrypture nor byleueth the scrypture to be the trew scrypture for the teachynge of the catholyke chyrche yet foloweth yt for all that that in lykewyse as that by the preachynge or redynge wherof he fyrst came to the byleuynge of the fayth is the very trewe scrypture so is the knowen catholyke chyrche by whych he fyrst came into the byleuynge of the scrypture and by whose techynge he toke it and perceyâ—ed it for holy wrytynge and for the very scrypture the same chyrche is in lykewyse I saye the very trewe chyrche syth that orygynally the scrypture is knowen as Tyndale hym selfe confesseth by none other chyrche as the fayth is orygynally lerned by none other scrypture And thus good christen readers to make an ende of this boke here ye clerely se that I haue not onely reproued you clerely Tyndals false felynge fayth and auoyded hys solucyon playnely by whyche he wolde auoyde that argument that clerely proueth the catholyke knowen chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste by that the trewe scrypture is knowen by the same chyrche and none other but I haue also yet onys agayne clerely proued you the comon knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste by the veâ—y wordes of Tyndale hym selfe wyth whyche he wolde proue the contrary For thys argument by whyche the knowen catholyke chyrche is proued the very chyrch whyche argumeÌ„t Tyndale hath all thys whyle bumbled about to soyle abydeth in conclusyon so stronge and ineuytable that in the laborynge to soyle it Tyndale hath double confermed it And surely thys is no meruayle For where as all heretykes very well perceyue that by the playne promyses of our sauyour hym selfe clerely coÌ„tayned in the gospell hys chyrche can neuer be brought into any dampnable errour and that yf it myghte there were no suerty neyther of doctryne nor of the scrypture selfe on the tother syde yf they sholde graunte the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche to be trewe then were all theyr heresyes drowned for thys cause lobeynge dreuen to confesse that the chyrche can not fall into dampnable errour they be dreuen to seke aboute for some other chyrche bycause the sure treuth of the chyrch dampneth destroyeth theyr heresyes And yet was there neuer any of them but that in goynge frome the knowen catholyke chyrche to seke out another he walked so wyld about that who so loked on and byhelde hym wolde saye the man were blynde and eche walketh a dyuerse waye assygneth a dyuerse chyrche neuer one lyke another And for ensample ye maye consyder twayne Tyndale for one whose chyrche ye haue harde all redy The secunde shall be frere Baroâ—s of whose chyrche I wyll som what shewe you before I fynysshe thys worke Thus endeth the .vii. boke ¶ The .viii. boke in whyche is confuted doctour Barons chyrche FRere Barons maketh the tytle of hys processe concernynge the chyrch in thys wyse What is holy chyrcheâ— and who be therof and wherby men maye knowe her After this tytle of hys processe he begynneth to playe Tyndalys parte fyrste in flyttynge from the poynt that is to wyt from the whole catholyke chyrche vnto the clergye alone and after in lyke maner of raylyng And surely notwithstandynge that a man myghte wenâ—â— Tyndale were in suche fonde scoffynge perelesse yet doth frere Barons as farre outruÌ„ne hym in â—â—ylynge as he draggeth behynd hym in reasonyng wherin wyth Tyndale Barons can hold no fote as downright as Tindale halteth therin Frere Barons lashethe out agaynste theym pryde and pompe and all theyr lyues spent in whoredome as though there were not a good preste in all the catholyke chyrche tyll they leue the catholyke fayth and fall to heresyes for than can they not be but honest though they wold for than maye freres wedde whores and call them wyueâ— But yet he iesteth on theym ferther bycause they were crownys and longe gownes aâ—d that bysshoppes were whyte rochettes And wheÌ„ he hath lykened them to bullys assys and apys and the rochettes to smockes then he lyketh mych hys mery mâ—ckes and faâ—eth as he were from a frere waxen a fydeler and wolde at a tauerne go gete hym a peny for a fytte of myrth How be it as for crownys and gownys and rochettes and vycyouse lyuynge all these thynges he but playeth sporteth wyth But the thynges whyche he layeth ernestly to theyr charge is that they gyue credence vnto the olde holy doctours of Chrystes chyrche in the interpretacion of Chrystes worde and that they medle to se any good rule and that they vowe chastyte and for that they teche not the people that fayth alone is suffycyent but that folke be bouÌ„den to do good wurkes and penauÌ„ce for theyr euyll yf they wyll be saued and bycause they lette not heretykes alone but persecute them bycause they be not persecuted them selfe For these causes lo he sayth they be as farre vnlyke vnto the chyrche as god is to the deuyll But he forgetâ—th in the meane whyle how many good vertu◠〈◊〉 prestes and relygyouse peple be put out of theyr places and spoyled of theyr lyuyng and beten and sent out a beggynge whyle herâ—tykes and apostatas wyth theyr wedded harlottes in stede of theyr vowed chastyte kepe theyr open auowde whoredome and maynteyne theyr incestuose lechery wyâ—h the lyuynge that
forgâ—uenes wyth For then he sayeth that as god hath washed away our spottes wyth the water of baptysme so he stretcheth out our wryncles vppon his owne crosse And yet he sayth for all this that no man lyueth here so clene but that as long as he lyueth here he so spotteth hym selfe agayn and so caccheth euer some wryncles that he lyueth neuer wythout nor longe can not not for necessyte of our nature peraduenture but thorow our wylfull fraylty and neglygence And then sheweth he farther yet that in those synnes wythout whyche no man lyueth he meaneth not abomynable dedely synnes as maÌ„slaughter or aduoutry or suche other horryble dedely synnes as sle the soule at one stroke For suche synnes crysten men he sayth that haue a good fayth and a good hope wyll not commytte wherby saynte Austayne teacheth vs agaynst the doctryne of those heretyques and these to that a man may be a crysten man and of the very same chyrche to whyche Cryste hath geuen hym self for to make her fayre gloryouse and may haue also a trew fayth that is to wyt a full bylyefe of euery uecessarye trouth and a full hope that is to wytte a great stronge truste in Cryste to be saued by Criste and yet not a good fayth able to make the man good bycause yt is but Barns fayth that is to witte onely fayth without well workynge charyte nor a good hope bycause it is a presumptuouse hope lokynge to be saued wyth dampnable deuelyshe leuyuge And for these causes may the member of the very chyrche here when he dyeth in such mynde for all his knowledgynge and askynge mercy to go from Crystes very chyrche in erthe to the deuyls very chyrche in hell For saynt Austayn sayth here as ye haue herd that they whyche haue suche synnes as at the tyme of deth sholde be remytted that is to say that hath not then such as be at his dyenge dedely both for theyr owne nature and for lacke of trew repentauÌ„ce wyth purpose of amendemeÌ„t well vsyng of the sacramentes shall be fully forgeuen that is to wyt yf he haue for attaynynge therof vsed hym selfe sufâ—ycyently in suche wyse as saynt Austayne here declareth that ys to say in confessyon knowledgyng of his synnes wyth coÌ„trycyon and prayour with good fayth and good hope â—nd a ware lyuynge vsynge dylygence to wythstande synne then he shall be sayth saynt Austayne forgyuen And whâ—n he is so at his deth fully forgeuen then shall he be layed vp for pure golde in the treasurs of god But saynt Austayne meaneth not that eueâ—y man that is of the very chyrche nor that euery man that dyeth out of dedely synne and knowledgeth his synne when he dyeth asketh mercy shall be forthwyth so fully forgeuen that he shall go hense so clene and so pure wythout spotte or wryncle that hâ— shall be by and by layed vppe for pure golde in the treasours of god but yf he long byfore with such other cyrcumstaunces as I haue byfore of saynt Austaynes own wordes rehersed you well and dewly ben accustumed long tyme to pray byfore that god wolde make hym wythoute spâ—t or wryncle by weshynge his spottes wyth the blessed sacramentes and stretchynge out his wryncles wyth the stretchynge them vppon the stretcher or tenter hokes of the crosse And then when god hath in suche wyse washed oute his spottes and in suche wyse washed out his wryncles at the very laste ende after whyche he can neyther gether spot nor wryncle more that then yt may please god to brynge hym into the shoppes and there lay hym where shall neuer be pressynge nor stretchynge more But yf he by long tymâ— byfore his deth pray duely thus ellys shall he not at hys deth be by and by layed vppe for pure gold in goddes treasours as frere Barons maketh ytâ— here seme by mysse rehersyng of saint Austayns wordes but he shal fyrst be wel purged and all the spottes wryncles that then remayn shall be clene burned oute by the hote fyre of purgatorye or by other mennes prayours and almoise dede and other suffrages of the chyrche done for hym be depured and clensed byfore that he shall be layed vppe for pure golde in the treasours of god And that saynt Austayne meaneth here none otherwyse then I do declare hym ye may well perceyue yf ye well aduyse his wordes whych I haue truely traÌ„slated And yet bycause ye shall the lesse doute therof saint Austayn shall him self declare y â— I truely declare you this place by his own very playn wordes in a nother place For in y â— .xxxii. sermon of the wordes of y â— apostle lo thus he sayth No man ought to doute but that wyth prayours of the chyrch and wyth the holsome sacryfyce and wyth almoyse that is geuen for the soules of them that are departed they are holpeÌ„ to be more mercyfully delt wyth of our lorde then theyr synnes haue deserued For this thynge by the tradycyon of the olde fathers the whole catholyque chyrche obserueth that ys to wyt that what tyme they that deceaced in the communyon and blood of Cryste at the tyme of the sacryfyce in they re place and order remeÌ„braunce made of them prayâ—ur shold be made for them and not that onely but also that specyall rehersall shold then be made that the same sacryfyce is offerd vp for them to Now when workes of mercy are done in commendacyon and fauoure of theym who can doute but that they are holpen therwyth syth prayour made for them vnto god is not frutelesse It is not in any wyse to be dowted but that these thynges succour releue them that are deceaced How be it onely suche men I saye as haue so lyued before theyr deth that these thynges maye do theym good after theyr deth For in relyefe of them that be departed out of the body wythout fayth workynge wyth cheryte â—nd wythout the sacramentes of the same suche deades of deuocyon are in vayne vsed the pledge or erneste peny of whyche deuocyon they lacked whyle they lyued here ether bycause they wold not receyue the grace of god or bycause they receyued it in vayne treasurynge and layenge vp for them selues not mercy but wrath wherfore wheÌ„ any good worke is done for them that are deceaced by theyr louers and frendes they meryte not of newe but these thynges are gyuen in rewarde as thynges consequent and well folowynge vppon theyr merytes whyche they deserued before whyle they lyued For it is not sayd that these thynges shold helpe them onely whyle they here lyue and not when they are deade And therfore euery man when he endeth thys lyfe can no thynge receyue but that onely whyche he hath deserued beynge here a lyue And in another place he sayth thus what thyng so euer of venyall synnys is not redemed of vs it must be purged wyth that fyre of whyche the apostle sayth that the worke shall appere by the fyre
wolde be wyth them all dayes vnto the ende of the worlde And that the fayth of the knowen catholyke chyrche that correâ—teth the false fayth of the false precheours and heretykes is the same fayth whyche the holy doctours of Crystes chyrche in euery age haue beleued and taught saynte Ierome saynte Austeyne saynt Ambrose saynte Chrysosteme â—aynte Gregory and saynte Cypryane do well and clerely testyfye by theyr bokes For whyche holy doctours our lorde hath shewyd many a wonderfull myracle These thynges and many other maketh vs sure that the prechour whyche prechyth agaynste the fayth of thys congregacyon is a false prechour and a false wryther and wrester of holy scrypture howe solempnely so euer he paynte yt And yf we were not sure by these meanes that the fayth of thys knowen catholyke congregacyon is trewe how shulde I be sure of the prechour of that vnknowen congregacyon whyche Tyndale calleth the chyrche How shuld I know I saye whyther y e prechour say trew or not For he hath no knowen congregacyon to reproue hym or allow hym the suerty wherof myght make me sure that he sayth trewe or false But then muste I sayth Tyndale trye hym by y e trewth of scrypture what yf I be vnlerned what yf I can rede haue it in my langage and yet vnderstand it but sleÌ„derly what yf I be well lerned and the false prechour as well lerned as I though he were no better yet he shall haue texte agaynste texte and glose agaynste glose and when shall we then agree Or yf I gyue place to hym or he to me how shall yet the nomber of vnlerned herers be satysfyed wyth our dowtefull dysputacyons yf they were not sure by the comon fayth of the knowen catholyke chyrch whyche of vs lyed ere euer we came to gyther By whyche they that neuer redde any scrypture be now by the holy goost that hath planted the trewe fayth in his catholyke chyrche y â— holy doctours wherof haue in euery age ben approued by myracles so inwardly sure of the trewth that a poore symple woman yf Tyndale and I broughte the trouth in debate and questyon and that I were waxen so madde to graunte hym that hys false heresyes were trewe she wold not lette to byleue and saye so to that we were two madde folys and false heretykes bothe And that thys is trewe shall mych the better apere wheÌ„ we well examyne and consyder what congregacyon Tyndale calleth the catholyke chyrchâ— Tyndale I saye that Crystes electe chyrch is the hole multytude of all repentyng synners that byleue in Cryste and put all theyr truste and confidence in the mercy of god felynge in theyr hartes that god for Crystes sake loueth them and wyll be or rather is mercyfull vnto them and forgyueth them theyr synnes of whyche they repente and that he forgyueth them also all the mocyons vnto synne of the whyche they feâ—e leste they shulde therby be drawne into synne agayne And thys fayth they haue wythout all respecte of theyr 〈◊〉 deseruynges ye and for none other cause then that the meâ—â—yfull truth of god the father whyche can not lye hath so promysed and so sworne More Nowe hath Tyndale here defyned and descrybed vs what he called the chyrche And for as myche as hys tytell is of hys chapyter the questyon whyther the chyrche can â—rre and that he now for the clerynge of the questyon declareth that there be two chyrches the tone whyche he sayth that we take for the châ—â—â—he whyche he calleth the pope and hys generaâ—yoÌ„ and sayâ—â— that there is no dowte but that chyrche boâ—â—e maye â—rre and in dede so dothe and thâ— tother chyrche â—hyâ—he hyâ—selâ—e calleth the very chyrche ys thys y â— he now defynâ—th it wold sâ—me that he wold afferme that thys chyrche whyche hym selfe descrybeth were the chyrche that can not erre wherin what his fynall and resolute sentence is ye shall in hys other chapyters hereafter folowyng at a longe length very scantly perceyue excepte hys wordes be somwhat opened and a lytell more clerely declared then as it appereth by his wrytyng hym selfe wolde they sholde be and nathelesse I truste they shall be wherfore to th ende ye may the better vnderstaÌ„de where about he goeth that he longeth to leâ—e vs in derkenesse and fede vs forth wyth hys hygh solempne folyes that he wolde were not vnderstanden let vs a lytell examyne the partys of hys dyffynycyon and descrypcyon of the chyrch where he sayth that Crystes electe chyrche ys the hole multytude of all repentaunt synners that haue the condycyons forther expressed in hys descrypcyon we must fyrst aske hym how taketh he there thys worde electeâ— It had ben good reason that he sholde haue declared whyther he meane electe and chosen as our sauyour Cryste dyd electe and chose hys chyrche and congregacyoÌ„ out of the Iewis and the Gentyles to be dedycate vnto hys seruyce after whyche maner he fyrste elected and chose hys twelue apostles though they were not all fynally good of whose eleccyon he sayd ye haue not elected me but I haue elected you and also sayd vnto them Haue I not elected and chosen you twelue and one of you is a deuyll or ellys that he meane by the electe chyrche the chyrche of the fynall electes and predestynates to glory beynge there vnto predestynate in the prescience and purpose of god before the creacyon of the worlde Thys poynte whyther he meane that hys hole multytude of repentynge synnersâ—â—e the tone electe chyrche or y â— tother hath he not expâ—eâ—â—ed but hâ—th lefte vs at large to gesse and arede vppon 〈◊〉 derke rydles after folowynge whyche of these two 〈…〉 mâ—aneâ—h How be it for awght that I can se hys descrypcyoÌ„â—greeth wyth neyther of theym botheâ— For as for y â— fyrst â—yâ—de of elecâ—yon aâ—ter whych Cryste hath chosen hys catâ—oâ—â—ke chyâ—che out oâ— the Iewys â—nd Gentyls to be hys câ—â—â—che herein 〈…〉 thys kynde 〈◊〉 there penytâ—ntes â—nd iâ—peâ—ytentes â—â—the For peniteâ—â—es are accompted amonge â—he good and in â—hys â—â—yâ—che â—e there bothe good and badde as our sauyour sheweth hym selfe in the parables bothe of the felde wyth good corne cocle and also the nette wyth fysshes good and badde and the scrypture sheweth by the arch of Noe with bestes clene and vnclene and Cryste wyth hys aforesayde wordes to his apostles Haue I not chosen you twelue and one of you ys a deuyll Now as for y â— electe chyrch of predestynates yf he speke therof as it may be verifyed in euery tyme syth it begaÌ„ as he must yf he speke to the purpose then are there therin accouÌ„ted not onely repeÌ„tyng synners but synners also some y t yet repente them not some also y t neuer dyd the thyng wherof they shuld repente as was our blessed lady whyle she lyued here and our sauyour hym selfe also for any syn of hym self For he was neuer penytent synner but beyng synlesse
nacyons haue now longe takeÌ„ hym is no parte of this questyoÌ„ For to this mater it is inough y â— thys body mystycall of Cryste this catholyk chirch is y â— body y â— is animated hath lyfe spyrytuall is enspyred with y e holy spyryt of god y t maketh theÌ„ of one fayth in the howse of god by ledyng theÌ„ in to the coÌ„sent of euery necessary trouth of reueled fayth be they in condycyoÌ„s maners neuer so syke as longe as they be coÌ„formable content in vnyte of fayth to cleue vnto y e body Of this chyrch can we not be deceyued nor of the ryght faith can we not be deceyued whyle we cleue to this chirch syth this chyrch is it in to which god hath gyueÌ„ his spyryt of fayth in this chirch both good bad ê“fesse one fayth For yf any professe the coÌ„trary fayth be it any one man or any one couÌ„trey they be controlled noted and repâ—ouâ—d by the hole body soone knowen from the body Now yf it happen any pryuy heretykes to lurke in this body yet all the whyle they agre with y â— body in open professioÌ„ of fayth teche no thyng coÌ„trary they can not begyle vs though they may by secrete heresyes of theyr hartes synfully deceyue them selfe And when they teche the coÌ„trary then are they as I say reproued opeÌ„ly by y e body eyther reformed cured or els cutte of fro the body and casten out therof So y t this chyrch is knowen well inough therfore maye be well vsed as a sure iudge for to decerne bytwene y â— trew doctrine the false and the trew precher false coÌ„cernyng the ryght fayth and the decernyng of the trew word of god wryteÌ„ of vnwryten from y e couÌ„terfete word of man and in the decernyng of y e ryght vnderstaÌ„dyng of the scrypture of god as farforth as of necessyte perteyneth vnto saluacyoÌ„ And this aduauÌ„tage y â— I speke of haue we by y â— that this chyrch is knoweÌ„ where as Tyndals chosen chyrch of repeÌ„tyng synners we can neuer know them but yf we se them walke in our chyrch in processyon with a candell byfore y â— crosse or stand before the pulpet with a fagot in theyr nekkes And yet can we not knw theÌ„ so neyther for they may seme repentauÌ„t openly and yet thynke in theyr hartes full shrewdely as they comeÌ„ly do Now wherby we shall be sure y t thys knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrch is y â— very trew chyrch y t is to be byleued that no man may be surely byleued y e agreeth not with the fayth of this chyrche all be it I haue both in my dyaloge in sondry places of my .iii. formar bokes of this psent worke well playnly ê“ued you yet shall I fynally before I fynysshe thys worke by such clere open markes tokens shew you wyth euydent reason playne scrypture furnysshed that no chylde shall after nede any thynge to dowte therof But now consyder in the meane whyle that Tyndals dyffynycyon or descrypcyon of the chyrch by whych he calleth it the nomber of all repentynge synners wyth all hys other coÌ„dycyons adioyned therunto is fyrst full of darkenesse And when it is opened â— it agreed neyther wyth one chyrch nor other And yet is it by another poynt of his own false doctryne vtterly destroyed For he techeth playnly that who so euer do after baptysme synne onys of purpose wyllyngly not onely of wekenes and infyrmyte he shall neuer be saued but all his repeÌ„tauÌ„ce after though he trust neuer so myche in god haue after neuer so sure fayth in hym shall neuer serue hym to saluacyoÌ„ but he shal be fynally dampned as I shall shew you forther after And then ye se playnly that his dyffynycyon of hys electe chyrch is by his owne doctryne destroyed For the elect chyrch can not be the noÌ„ber of all repentyng synners y â— truste to be saued in Crystes passyon yf some suche repentyng synners shall neuer be saued by hys passyon as Tyndale playnly lyeth And therfore syth he hath fayled of his dyffynycyon of the chyrche and therby loste and spylled all hys purpose lette vs now consyder whyther he handle any more wysely the remanaunt of hys goodly mater Tyndale Thys fayth haue they wythout all respecte of theyr owne deseruynges ye and for none other cause then that the mercyfull trewth of god the father whyche can not lye hath so promysed and so sworne More I dowte not good reders but ye remember well that all the doctryne of Crystes chyrche is full of warnynge that no man sholde put a prowde truste and confydence in hys owne wurkes nor onys thynke that he can of hym selfe alone without goddes gracious helpe do any good wurke at all and greate cause hath to fere and mystruste all hys owne workes for vnperfyte cyrcumstaunces seldom perceyued by hym selfe And also that in all that a man maye do he doth but hys onely dewtye and that the beste worke were noughte worth to heuenwarde of the nature of the worke yt selfe ne were it for the lyberall goodes of god y â— lysteth so hyghly to rewarde it and yet wolde not rewarde it so sauynge for the passyon of hys owne sonne All these thynges and many suche other mo be so dayly taught and preched in the chyrche that I truste in good fayth that almoste euery good olde wyfe can tell them And therfore it â—â—pereth well that Tyndale varyeth not wyth vs for so farre but that he meaneth a farre forther thynge where he sayth that the electe chyrche trusteth so vtterly to be forgeuyn all synne mocyons vnto synne wythout any respecte of theyr owne deseruyng playnely meaneth therin as in other places also he playnely declareth hym selfe whyche I haue in my formar bokes proued and reproued not onely that men shold not nede but also that it were synne to go about any good wurke wroughte wyth grace in fayth to deserue any thyng toward the gettynge of full and perfayt forgeuenes To thys poynte cometh Tyndals holy felynge fayth that feleth alwaye full forgyuenesse wythout any regard or respecte of mannys owne endeuourâ— deserue it Thys false felynge fayth hath Tyndale taken of Luther when he and all the rable of theyr secte saye that fayth of necessyte bryngeth forth good wurkes as the frute of the tree of faith And yet they say y e good wurkes be nought worth and therby make they y â— tre of fayth lytell better For what good tre can y t be wherof y e good frute is noughte worth But Tyndale and Luther bothe lye lowde in bothe the poyntes For bothe maye a man haue the ryght fayth idle and workelesse and therfore dede and frutelesse Dede I saye not in the nature and substaunce of bylyefe a fayth but dede as to the attaynyng of saluacyon And also good wurkes wrought in fayth hope and cheryte be very profytable towarde
obtaynynge of forgyuenesse and getynge reward in heuyn excepte y e scrypture of god be false when it sayth that as the water quencheth fyre so doth almoyse dede auoyde synne and except our sauyour hym selfe saye false where he sayth Gyue your superfluouse substaunce in almoyse and then lo are ye all clene And in lyke wyse where he promyseth rewarde in heuen in sondry playne places of scrypture for good wurkes done here in erth Now yf Tyndale answere that the good workes be nothynge worth of them selfe nor wythout fayth as he answereth me in his answere to y e thyrd boke of my dyaloge then maye euery chylde se that he is dreuen to the harde wall fayne to seke a shamfull shyfte For what thynge is awght worth of yt selfe to heuenward without goddes grace and the greate goodnesse of god No fyry cheryte though men wolde burne for goddes sake coude deserue heuen of yt selfe wythout the lyberall goodnesse of god For as saynt Poule sayth the passyons of thys worlde be not worthy to wynne the glory to come that shal be shewed vppon vs. And yf he saye that good workes be nought worth bycause they be nought worth without fayth so myght he as well saye y e fayth were nought worth bycause it is nought worth wythout cheryte So that ye maye playnely se that he seketh nothynge but shyftes whyche wyll yet serue of nought when he hath all together done For ye maye fynally perceyue that though euery man maye well fere that the workes which hym selfe hath done semed they neuer so good were yet for some lacke vppon hys parte in y â— doynge so vnperfyt in the depe secret syght of god that they were vnworthy to serue hym or be any thynge rewarded and also that were they neuer so pure perfyt they were not yet worthy â—uche rewarde but of goddes lyberall goodnesse yet is it a very false fayth and a pestylent heresye to byleue as Tyndale here techeth vs y â— god wyll saue suche as maye worke wythout any respecte or regarde vnto theyr deseruynge as though he rought not whyther they dyd good or yll but wyll saue all suche as hym lyste do they what they lyste onely bycause hym lyste and that hym selfe so lysteth for none other cause but onely bycause he hath so promysed and sworen For surely neyther is the promyse the cause as I haue in myne other boke shewed but y e goodnesse of god whych caused hym so to promyse Nor also he hath not so sworne nor so promysed neyther that he wyll saue man wythout any regarde of good wurkes but hath bothe promysed sworne the clene contrary that but yf we wurke well yf we maye or repent that we dyd not and be in purpose to do ellys shall our fayth stande vs in lytell stede but greately aggreue and encrease the payne of our dampnacyon And now that hys fayth is proued very playne false and faythlesse it is a worlde to se how ryally he runneth forth in the prayse as though it were proued trew Tyndale And thys fayth and knowlege is euerlastynge lyfe and by thys we be borne a newe and made the sonnes of god and obteyne forgyuenesse of synnes and are translated from deth to lyfe and from the wrath of god vnto hys loue and fauour And thys fayth is the mother of all trouth and bryngeth wyâ—h her the spyryte of all truth whyche spyryte purgeth vs as from all syâ—â—e euyn so from all lyes and errour noysome and hurtâ—ull Anâ— thys fâ—yth is the fundacyon layde of the apostles and prophetes whereon Paull sayth Ephe. 2. that we are bylte and therby of the howseholde of god And thys fayth is the rocke wheron Cryste bylte hys congregacyon More Lo what a prayse he hath made you of thys fayth that feleth that folke sholde nede to do no good workes How he calleth it euerlastyng lyfe to come to the bare knowlege of that fayth that shall take away from vs all respecte and regarde of deseruynge any rewarde or thanke the rather for any good wurkes For yf men myght haue any suche respecte then were it greate parell leste men wolde fall the more to do them For other greate parell I se none consyderynge y â— we be well taught to put no proude confydence in them but referre all the thanke of them to god by whose helpe and grace we do them Now wote ye well that no good man can deny but that for lacke of suche wurkes men shall be dampned as Cryst sayth hym selfe in the gospell And harde it were that the good nature of god beynge more redy to rewarde then to punysshe wolde punysshe vs for the lackynge and not rewarde vs for the hauynge namely syth hym selfe sayth in the same gospell that he shall gyue men heuen for theyr almoyse ded But Tyndale as he denyeth the tone so denyeth he the tother to and wyth some fonde glose wyll auoyde the gospell and all and then goo boldely forth wyth hys fayth boste it and saye thys fayth and knowlege is euerlastynge lyfe But all faythfull folke wyll saye agayne thys fayth and knowlege ys euerlastynge deth For thys fayth hath Luther and frere Huskyn bothe and yet be farre from euerlastynge lyfe For bysyde that abomynable heresye it selfe agaynste all regarde of good wurkes they be not agreed in bylyefe concernynge the sacrament of the awter the tone byleuynge it to be very brede â— the tother no thyng loweth ellys but brede and false bothe twayne And Tyndale foloweth the falser of them bothe And so thys fayth delyuereth them not fro lyes besydes y t they bothe and Tyndale wyth them do byleue yf they lye not that it is lawfull for monkes freres to breke theyr vowed chastyte and runne out and wedde nonnes whyche poynt of false fayth ys no parte of the fundacyon that the apostles byelded vppon but saynt Poule preched the contrary sayeng that vowed wydowes wyllynge to wedde shold haue dampnacyon by cause they had frustrated and broken theyr formaâ— fayth that is to wytte theyr fayth gyuen to god in theyr vowe of abstynence from all carnall knowlege of man agaynste whyche fayth they wolde now wedde and geue a seconde fayth vnto man in maryage But now goth Tindale forth wyth hys tale wolde seme to proue it trew by scrypture Tyndale Cryste asked hys apostles Matth. 17. whom they toke hym for And Peter anâ—wered for them all sayenge I say that thou arte Cryste the sonne of the lyuynge god that arte come in to thys worlde That is we byleue that thou arte he that was promysed vnto Abraham shulde come and blesse vs and delyuer vs. How be it Peter yet wyste not by what meanes but now it is opened thorow out all the world that thorow the offeryng of his body and bloâ—e More Here is it necessary that euery wyse reder marke well consyder the cause and purpose of Tyndale in
se yet shall ye perceyue as well in hys chapyters folowynge as in thys same chapyter after that he putteth fayth alone for suffycyent and repentaunce as a shadowe that neuer can but folowe it And yet all hys thynges euer so darkely that he wolde fayne leue hym selfe some startynge hole But surely yt ys harde for hym to starte out fro these playne wordes of hys owne who so euer go to god by any other waye then thys fayth that saynte Peter confessed the same is an heretyke out of the ryght waye and not of Crystes chyrche For thys is no more to saye but who so euer bysyde the bare bylyefe wyth as bare repentynge adde confessyon or for synne punysshe hym selfe by penaunce or doth the better after bycause he hath done euyll byfore and hopeth that god shall eyther rewarde hym the more or haue the more mercy on hym or in purgatory punysshe hym the lesse he is a starke heretyke And of trouth so he is in dede yf thys false tale be trewe and all trewe men and all holy sayntes and all holy scrypture false But now gothe he forthe not in the profe but in the prayse and sayth Tyndale For thys knowlege maketh me a man of the chyrche More whyche knowledge the knowledge that a man nedeth no mo artycles in hys fayth now then saynt Peter confesseth then and that he maye not bysyde repentaunce and bylyefe vse any other waye to heuen that is to wytte he maye not therwythall vse as a waye to heuen or to remyssyon any sacramentall shryfte or penytencyall workes or dedes of cheryte towarde satysfaccyon The knowledge of thys fayth maketh Tyndale a man of the chyrche as he sayth But of whyche chyrche trowe ye truely not of the chyrch of Cryste whych bysyde that fayth hath instytuted y e fayth in his blessed sacramentes dyuers other artycles besyde which hath playnely declared y t all be it y e knowlege of hym hys pleasure by fayth be such a way toward heuen y t without it we caÌ„ not come thyther yet if we ioyne not to y â— knowlege good dedes or purpose of good workes neyther can that knowlege nor repentaunce neyther serue vs for a suffycyent waye to heuen And therfore Tyndale is not by thys knowlege made a man of Crystes trewe chyrche but syth he is content wyth the bare knowledge and setteth all good workes at so short he is made therby a man of the false chyrch of the deuyll that is a lyar hymselfe and father of all suche lyars Tyndale The chyrche is Crystes body Collosâ— 1. And euery person of the chyrche is a member of Cryste Ephe. 5. Now it is no member of Cryste that hath not Crystes spyryte in it as it is no parte of me nor member of my body wherin my soule is not present and quyckeneth it And then yf a man be none of Crystes he is not of the chyrche More Here Tyndale runneth in iuglynge by equyuocacyon of thys worde chyrche For where as hym selfe hath byfore thys tyme confessed in wrytyng in thys same boke to whiche I answere now that the chyrch in many places of holy scrypture is the hole multytude that professe the fayth of Cryste whyther they be good or badde here he fareth as though there were no man of the chyrche but onely good folke alone in whom is the spyryte of Cryste wyth an ensample put of the body hauyng some dede parte hangyng theron wherin were not the soule to quycken it and gyue it lyfe whyche therfore he sayth is no parte of the body But he forgeteth that somtyme there is some member astoyned and lacketh bothe lyfe and felynge whyche yet by the reason that it is not clene cut of and caste awaye receyueth after lyfe and felynge agayne as many a dedely synner doth in the body of Crystes chyrche take lyfe agayne that hath in synne lyen full longe dede But now is he yet of thys mynde that the fayth whych hym selfe hath descrybed is the thynge that it onys goten and hadde of any man kepeth in the spyryte of god so fast in hys harte that he ys surely a quycke member of the chyrche that ys Crystes body and that he can not lese that fayth nor that spyryte at any tyme after that he hath onys goten it so that he haue it as he sayth in another chapyter after felyngly and not onely hystorycally And who so euer haue not the fayth that he descrybeth hym he rekeneth for an heretyke and onely hys fayth for the trew and the byleuers therof for the trew chyrche Now hys fayth haue ye herde often inough that onely fayth suffyseth or at the leste wyse wyth repentynge that shryfte or penaunce toward heuen or remyssyon of synnes is heresye and that to wurshyppe the blessed sacrament of the aulter is dyshonour to god and that there is no purgatory and that frerys maye well laufully wedde nonnes and a greate rable of suche deuelysshe heresyes mo of such maner suit and sort that as our sauyour sayed vnto saynt Peter at the confessyon of hys fayth Thou arte blessed Symon the sonne of Ionas For flesshe and bloude hath not reueled thys vnto the but my father that is in heuyn so wyll he saye to Tyndale for confessynge of thys false fayth of his Thou art accursed Tyndale the sonne of the deuyll for neyther fleshe nor bloude hath taught the these heresyes but thyn owne father the deuyll that is in hell And thus well hath he quytte hym in thys chapyter Here endeth the confutacyon of thys chapyter of Tyndale whyther the chyrche can erre Here foloweth the next chapyter of Tyndale in which he sayth that a trew member of Crystes chyrche synneth not and that he ys yet a synner Tyndale How a trewe member of Crysâ—es chyrche synneth not and how he ys yet a synner More NOwe come we to the specyall poynte wherin Tindale gyueth vs a glorious demonstracyon of hys excellent hygh wytte and lernynge farre surmountyng the capacyte of pore popyshe men to perceyue how it myghte be possyble that any man synneth not and yet for all that synneth all waye styll But to the entent that Tyndale shall haue no cause to saye y t I deface hys gay goodly tale by manglynge of hys mater and rehersynge hym by patchys and pecys ye shall fyrst concernynge thys poynt here all hys hole chapyter to gether wythout any worde of hys eyther omytted or chaunged and after shall we consyder examyne y â— partes These are therfore hys wordes Tyndale Ferthermore he that hath thys fayth can not synne and therfore he can not be deceyued with dampnable errours For by thys fayth we be as I sayâ—e borne of god Now he that is borne of god can not synne for his seed dwâ—â—â—eâ—h in hym and he can not therfore synne by cause he is borne of god I. IohnÌ„ â— whyche seed is the holy goste that kepeth a mans herte from consentynge
call as it semeth no man a member of Crystes electe chyrche but hym that is elected fynally to blysse and saluacyon And I call hâ—re the elect chyrche in thys world neyther all that are chosen in to crystendome and the professyoÌ„ of the catholyke fayth nor onely those that shall be fynally saued but all suche as for the present tyme so stande in the state of grace that yf they dye before they fall therfro they shal be saued Of whiche folke many fall after from it so be dampned in dede whyche folke before theyr fall be the chyldren of god saye I. And when they be fallen into dedely synne then ceace they to be the chyldren of god and be become the chyldâ—en of the deuyll tyll they be borne of god agayne by grace thorowe penauÌ„ce and become the chyldren of god agayne And in whyche so euer of these two states a man fynally dyeth in in that he perpetually dwelleth and is therby for euer eyther the chylde of god in hys chyrche of the fynall electes in heuen or ellys the chyld of the deuyll in the chyrche of the fynall reprobatys in hell accordyng to the word of holy wryte yf a tre fall south or north in what place so euer it fall there shall it remayne But here sayth Tyndale that who so euer haue onys the fayth whyche he calleth after the felyng fayth he hath the seed of god the spyryte of god in hym And bycause he hath the spyryte of god in hym therfore he sayth by the authoryte of y â— aforsayd wordes of saynt IohnÌ„ that man can neuer synne dedely So that by that reason who so euer haue onys the fayth is one of the fynall electes Now se you in what maner Tyndale taketh these wordes But agaynste hys takynge â—tande all the olde holy doctours of Crystes chyrche from the dayes of hym selfe and hys apostles hytherto Of all whom let Tyndale tell me the name of any one that euer dyd vnderstande these wordes of saynt IohnÌ„ in such wyse as Tyndale doth that who so euer gate onys the ryght fayth of Cryste and put therwyth as greate a felynge therof wyth hope and cherite therto as euer holy Tyndale hym selfe felte in hys dayes coude neuer after fall into dedely synne or not so depe into it that he myghte after be perpetually dampned in hell Let Tyndale I saye tell me any one of the olde holy sayntes that in thys exposycyon euer toke hys parte and lette hym take all my teth and my tonge to Now yf neuer any good man vnderstode saynte IohnÌ„ so byfore but all holy men clene y â— coÌ„trary by what reason loketh Tyndale now that we sholde now begynne to byleue hym alone in the vnderstandynge of these wordes of saynte IohnÌ„ better then all good connynge men thys .xv. hundreth yere before hym Now is hys exposycyoÌ„ bysydes thys not onely agaynst the catholyke fayth of all crysten people and the playne determynacyon of Crystes chyrche but also agaynste many playne open places of holy scrypture bysyde whych were in so playne and clere a mater almoste a loste labour to reherse And yet leste an vnlerned reder myght happe to any thynge to dowte I shall reherse you some what saye we by the wordes of the spyryte reueled vnto saynt IohnÌ„ agaynste the bysshop of the chyrche of Ephesus whom where as god praysed for many great vertues in suche wyse that it appered that he was at that tyme in grace and goddes ryght specyall fauour yet sayed he vnto hym I haue for all this a few thynges agayst the bycause thou hast lefte of thy fyrst cheryte And therfore remember from whens thou arte fallen and amende and do the good workes whyche thou were wont to do For ellys wyll I come shortely to the and I wyll remoue thy candelstycke oute of hys place excepte thou repent and do penaunce Doth it not here playnely appere that he whyche hath goten so the fayth and that the lyuynge fayth to that he worketh so well therwyth that the lyght of hys faythfull lyuely workes shyne bryght before the face of god maye yet by declynynge from that feruour of deuout workes in to some slouthfull slaknesse though myche of hys vertue tary fall yet so low at laste that god shall reiecte hym and caste his candelstycke wherof the lyght shall be worne out quyte out of hys place If thys myghte not be god wolde not tell hym it bothe myght and excepte he mended shold Doth not saynte Poule saye he that thynketh that he standeth let hym beware he fall not It apereth there playne by the cyrcumstaunces of the place that he speketh there to them whom he rekened for good men and faythfull For to those that stand he gyueth the counsayle to beware they fall not whyche by Tyndale yf they onys in fayth fele them selfe stande they nede not for they can not fall dedely But saynt Poule there mente dedely falles as bothe by hys wordes byfore and after appereth He sayth also to the Romayns in y â— .10 chapyter They that is the Iewys are broken of for theyr lacke of bylyefe But thou standest by fayth be not proude therof but fere There sheweth saynt Poule effectually by a longe processe that lyke wyse as he whyche lacketh fayth maye by grace come to it so he that hath it and standeth in it hath cause to fere bycause he may by his own defaut fall froÌ„ it Sayth he not also The rote of all euylles is couetyce whyche whyle some folke couetyd they walked out of the waye from the fayth He sayth also Hymeneus and Philetus are fallen from the treuth sayeng that the resurreccyon is paste all redyâ— they haue peruerted the fayth of some persons Here sheweth saynt Poule playne that men maye haue the fayth and lese it and that can they not I suppose with out dedely synne Peraduenture Tyndale wyll say that he speketh onely of electys and that I can not proue these textes to be spoken of electes Therto saye I that he calleth euery man an electe that is onely borne agayn of god by fayth and that byleueth to be saued by the meane of Cryste and of suche speke these textes and therfore they speke of hys electes Then wyll he peraduenture say that he meaneth of a felynge fayth onely I know not what he meaneth by hys felynge fayth but I wote well these textes speke of good fayth lyuely fayth that worketh wyth loue If he fynde any other felynge let hym tell vs. And yet yf there be any other felynge of fayth then byleuyng louyng and workyng the selfe same to semeth by saynt Poule that it may be lefte of agayn and loste as appereth by the same wordes of his in the syxte chapyter vnto the Hebrewys of whyche wordes Tyndale taketh hys chyefe holde of the tother parte of hys heresyes that is to wytte that who so synne onys dedely after hys baptysme shall neuer after be
boldely make them self sure therof byfore y t the corage therof gyue them occasyō to synne it may be y e cause y t god shall clerely withdraw it frō them neuer offer it them after And thys vncertaynty of grace to folow is y e brydle y t refrayneth our boldenes where as Tyndale his holy felowes the trewe mēbres of Crystes chyrch feling by theyr feling fayth that after theyr horrible dedes done they shall vndowtedly take repētaūce so gete theyr pardon haue this brydle of drede cast of theyr hed therfore are redy lyke vnbrydled coltes to rūne out at rouers in all horrible dedes whyther so euer y e occasyōs of theyr wyld affeccyōs the synne as Tindale sayth brekyng out in theyr mēbres lyst to cary theym For whē they be caryed out vpō occasyōs by y e deuyll y e flesh then Tyndale calleth it but frayltye infyrmyte no wyll in no wise nor no malycyous purpose And therfore of this heresy without which they can not defēde theyr other ye se what good frute must folow And yet suppose y t Tyndals false heresy were trew y t they were as certayn sure of repētaūce therby of remissyō pardon as they say they be this wold not yet mayntayne his mater For though that a traytoure were so well acquaynted with the condycyon of hys kynge that he veryly knewe that when he hadde all wrought that he coude in his traytorouse purpose agaynst hym he sholde yet after obtayne his pardon and therupon boldely so dyd vpon some occasion and hope of some hygh promocyon and afterwarde were not deceyued but obtayned hys pardon in dede yet had he ben for all that a stark traytour in the meane whyle and hadde dedely trespassed though the deth folowed not but the faute were fully forgyuen And so mych the more traytorouse wretche in how mych the prynce were of hys nature more benyng and marcyfull And thus ye se playnely that Tyndale to proue his rydle trewe that though he synne he synneth neuer dedeli muste seke some better shyfte then thys Tyndale wyll saye that hys felowys he do not synne dedely in the tyme of the doynge of suche horryble dedes bycause as they say they do them not of purpose nor wyllyngly nor do not cōsent vnto synne to serue it but all the whyle that they go there aboute and all the whyle also in whyche they be in doynge they resyste it in theyr wylles haue styll in theyr hartes theyr professyon to the loue of the lawe and be sory that they shall breke it fynally do breke it agaynst theyr wyll by greate occasyons gyuen whyche cary them forth to the doynge of those horryble dedes in a rage of the synne brekynge out of theyr membres whyche horryble dedes after the rage ones passed they repente all waye and forthwyth be clene forgyuen Is not here good reder a goodly defence and a godly And vndowtedly thys is theyr very defence in defendynge them selfe from dedely synne as Tyndals awne wordes as well in thys chapyter as in other folowynge do playne and clerely shew But now seeth euery good chrysten man well inowgh that they be wyckedly occupyed in sekyng as holy Dauid saith excuses for theyr synne For there is no man doth any suche dede agaynste hys wyll but all be it that he resyste y e mocyon of the deuyll and the flesh at the fyrste cleuynge to the contrary styrynge of god and hys good angell repugneth and stryueth agaynste the synne and is peraduenture loth to be brought therto whych doyng is very godd and therby good folke fynally caste of and ouercome all those temptacions thorow the grace of god wurkyng with thē yet suche as in conclusyon fall to the doynge of those horryble dedes whyche they be tempted to though they be not fully so euyll as other that resyste the deuyll nothynge at all but rather runne on apace towarde hell them selfe then tary tyll the deuyll come to cary them yet do they vndowtedly thorow theyr owne defaute fall from the grace wyllyngly that holpe them whyle they resysted And as it were a cowarde that had fought a whyle wolde sodaynly caste awaye bothe bukler and swerde fall downe at hys enemyes fete and yelde hym selfe in to hys enemyes handes so do these folke which cōmytte those horryble dedes after a whyle resystynge by whyche by goddes helpe they sholde haue had the victory yf they wolde haue perseuered in the fyght they chaunge theyr mynde by y e faute of theyr owne fre wyll thorow the delectacyon of the synfull dede and so consent vnto the same and then seke them selfe the waye to come therto and the deuyll helpeth them to fynde it and so breke they wyllyngly goddes commaundement and fulfyll the pleasure of the deuyll and the luste of the fleshe whyche wylfull fallynge from god and hys grace vnto the deuyll and the flesh what god man dowteth to be dampnable dedely synne And therfore whan Tyndale telleth vs that Luther and he and suche other trewe membres of theyr chyrche whā they commytte ony suche horryble dedes do not cōmytte theym wyllyngly bycause they do commytte theym vpon great occasyons and be caryed awaye spyte of theyr tethe with the rage of the synne that breketh out of theyr membres sauynge my charyte syr I beshrewe theyr knauysshe membres out of whiche theyr synne breketh forthe with suche a rage Let theym cast on colde water with sorow quenche that rage For without the defawte of theyr owne fre wyll all the deuyls in hell can neuer caste vpon theym suche an hete that shal be able to brynge theym into that vyolent inuyncyble rage to compell theym vnwyllyngly to do suche horryble dedes For god hathe promysed as in playne scrypture appereth that he wyll neuer so suffre theym God is faythfull sayth saynt Poule whiche shall not suffre you to be tēpted aboue y ◠ye may bere but with the tēptacyon shall also make you a way to get out so that ye may well welde it And whan saynt Poule hym selfe leste the greatnes of his hyghe reuelacyons myght haue set hym vp in an hygh pryde had thorow goddes great mercyfull goodnes the angell of Sathan the prycke of the flesshe gyuē vnto hym to bete hym that in suche wyse that he was fayne thryes to cry to god to take it away our lord agayne shewed hym that it was not good for hym to lacke it so soone nor to haue it so sodenly taken away from hym but shewed hym that his grace was suffycyent whose strengthe in mannes feblenes so worketh with the fre wyll of hym that purposeth to contynue good that all the deuyls in hell shall neuer be able to put hym in suche a rage that may cary hym towarde horryble dedes one here bredth forwarde agaynst his wyll And thus ye se that Tyndale as towchynge his ryall rydle of synnynge and synnynge not
he wold approper some specyall pryuylege of kepynge styll fayth hope cheryte wyth all theyr heuy hepe of horryble deuelysshe dedes I saye that as farforth as in hys wordes is any treuth hys pryuylege is not proper to the membres of hys electe chyrche but comon to the very fynall electes to the fynall reprobatys to For bothe the tone and the tother may synne and repente and amend and synne agayne and amende agayn ofâ—er then Tyndale hath fyngers on hys handes and toos on hys feete to But he that fynally repenteth hys synnys in a ryght fasshyon is an electe foresene to god from the begynnynge And he that finally dyeth impenyteÌ„t as dyuers wedded freres dye in theyr lechery or he that after Tyndals doctryne repenteth without care of shryft dyeth in a fals heresie agaynst hys holy howsell such folkes be fynally reprobates fore knowen vnto god before the worlde was wrought y t they wolde fynally for impenytence fall vtterly to nought And the other part of hys tale whyche can not be veryfyed in the reprobatys that is to wytte the kepynge of cheryte styll in the doynge of horryble dedes can not be veryfyed in the electes neyther And so is his tale on euery syde folysshe false and nought For the semely settynge forthe wherof to make it appere fayre and lykely bycause he can neyther bryng reason scripture nor other good authoryte ye shall now se what ensample he bryngeth forth Tyndale As a good chyld whom the father and moder hâ—â—e tâ—â—ght nurtour aâ—d wisedome loueth his father and all his commaundementes and perceyueth of the goodnes shewed hym that his father loueth hym and that all his fathers preceptes are vnto his welthe and profyâ—e and that his father commauÌ„deth hym nothyng for any nede that his father hath therof but seketh his profyt onely and therfore hath a good fayth vnto all his fathers promyses â—â—d loueth all hys commaâ—â—dâ—mentes and dothe them wyth good wyll and wyth good wyll goeth to scole And by the waye happely he seeth companye playe and wyth the syghte is taken â—â—d raâ—â—shed of hys memory and forgetteth hym selfe and stondeth and byholdeth and falleth to play also forgettynge father and mother all theyr kyndnes all theyr lawes and his owne profyte therto How be it the knowledge of hys fathers kyndnesse the fayth of hys prâ—myses and the loâ—e that he hath agayn vnto his father and the obedyeÌ„t mynde are not vtterly quenched but lye hydde as all thynges do when a man slepeth or lyeth in a trauncâ— And as soone as he hath played out all hys lustes or be warned in the meane season he cometh agayne vnto his olde professyon Neuer the later many temptacyons go ouer his harte and the lawe as a ryght hangman tormenteth hys conscyeâ—ce aâ—d gothe nye to persuade hym that his father wyll caste hym awaye and hange hym yf he â—etche hym so that he is lyke a greate whyle to râ—â—ne awaye rather then to returne vnto his father agayne feare and drede of rebuke and of losâ—e of his fathers loue and of punysshement wrasâ—ell wyth the truste whyche he hath in his fathers goodnes and as it were gyue hys fayth afall but it ryseth agayne as soone as the rage of the fyrste brunte is past and his mynde more quyete And the goodnes of hys father and his olde kyndnes cometh vnto remembraunce eyther of hys owne corage or by the comforte of some other And he byleueth that hys father wyll not caste hym awaye or destroye hym and hopeth that he wyll no more do so And vppon that he getteth hym home dysmayed but not all to gyther faythlesse The olde kyndnesse wyll not lette hym dyspayre How be it all the worlde can not set hys harte at reste vntyll the payne be paste and vntyll he haue herde the voyce of hys father that all is forgyuen More I neyther haue yet euer herde nor neuer loke to here any very wyse worde in all Tyndales workes But yet herde I neuer a more peuisshe processe then this his holy prechynge is nor therewith more pestilently perelouse while he pretendeth to make this chapiter of faythe and then iugleth it in to truste and hope and yet wolde make vs bileue that neither nother at any tyme faileth any man that ones hath goten them nor that any man whiche ones hath the faythe y â— hym selfe describeth thereby is ones a true meÌ„bre of his electe church as euery man is by his dotrine y â— ones attaineth that faith can at any tyme after lese it nor fall awaye there from for that cause can neuer do dedely synne though he do neuer so many daÌ„nable dedes or to call them as hym selfe calleth them horryble dedes For as for dampnable happely Tyndale wyll saye they be not be they neuer so horryble bycause the seed of god that is to wytte theyr felynge fayth can neuer suffer suche treâ—e membres of hys electe chyrche do those horryble dedes wyllyngly or of purpose but onely for weykenesse and frayltye for whyche they can be sayth he no dedely synnes in those blessed bodyes be the dedes neuer so deuelysshe And now to proue vs thys wonderfull straunge paradox thys opynyon inopinable to be very playne open euydent and clere he furnyssheth it wyth samples so feble and so dymme that the faynt syghte of our sore eyes can scant attayne to perceyue how the samples any thynge touche the mater For where he sholde to make vs clerely beholde it put hys ensemples in greate and horryble dedes suche as hym selfe before in another chapyter confesseth that hys holy membres do he forgetteth here now suche horryble dedes as wolde make the reders abhorre the doers of them and speketh fayre easely that they be feble somtyme in temptacyon and than they can not stande and that after they haue synned theyr fayth is faynte and when they sholde helpe theyr neyghboure theyr loue is colde and they be not pacyent in trybulacyoÌ„s and when they suffer wronge they can not forgyue lo and when men take away theyr goodes they be angry so they be lo. Lo how angry Tyndale is wyth hys trew membres of his electe chyrche and how sore he layeth theyr synnes to theyr charge And yet bycause we sholde take theyr fautes for myche the sleyghter he mynyssheth all the mater and maketh it myche the lesse by resemblynge and lykenynge them to a good lytell chylde as though theyr fawtes were all but chyldyshnes and as it were a babe that wepeth and waxeth angry wyth the kyghte for catchynge awaye hys brede and butter and wold complayne to hys mother and byd her go take a rodde and bete the kyght But syth that Tyndale now goth aboute to playe the the mayster and sette all the catholyke chyrche agayne to scole and wolde haue vs lerne suche harde lessons as we neuer herde of the lyke as that men maye comenly do myscheuouse dedes wythout any dedely synne bycause they do them not wyllyngly
wordes as they be and as innocent and as simple as they seme yet in them meneth Tyndale couertly to come forthe with his poyson of false prechynge the predestinacyon of god with destrucion of the fre wyll of man concernynge any maner of deuoure of them selfe towarde the â—eleue and faythe For he â—â—neth here that god alway maketh the electes to se these thynges without any wyll of theyr owne any thynge workynge with god towarde the syght thereof and that all the reprobates that shal be dampned for lacke of the beleue be reprobated and reiected and lefte vnchosen and kept from the syght and perceyuynge of the thynges to be beleued without any demeryte or euyll deserte of theyr owne onely bicause god lyste nat to make them see And that Tyndale thus falsely meneth by those fayre playne wordes ye shall farther perceyue by other wordes of Tyndals owne wrytynge afterwarde in his answere to to the fyrste chapyter of the thyrde boke of my dyaloge For where as I there shewed that the very bokes of the scripture if selfe can nat make men beleue y t scripture nor very surely knowe whyche were the very true scripture of god and whiche were scriptures countrâ—fete sauyng that the catholyke churche techeth vs to knowe the scrypture and the spirite of god with mannes owne towardes and good endeuoure worketh in man the credulite and belefe by whiche we bothe beleue the churche in techyng vs whiche is the scripture also by whiche we beleue the thinges that are wrytten in the scrypture to this bycause I sayde there that whan we here the scrypture or rede it if we be nat rebellious but endeâ—our our selfe to beleue captyue and subdue our vnderstandyng to serue and folowe fayth prayenge for goddes gracious ayde and helpe god than worketh with vs and inwardely dothe inclyne our harte in to the assent of the thynge that we rede and after a lytell sparke of our faythe oâ—es had increaseth the credence in our incredilyte Tyndale to this in moâ—kage of mennes endeuour towarde the belefe and in scornynge that we wolde captyue our vnderstandyng into y e seruyce of fayth answereth me with an 〈◊〉 as exclamacion and cryenge out vpon my flesheâ—â—â—es and foly â—oâ—eth out his hyghe spirituall sentence in this 〈◊〉 oâ— Tyndale O hoâ—e betleblyâ—de is flesshely reason The wyll hath none operacion at all 〈◊〉 the workynge of faythe in my soule no more 〈◊〉 the chylde hathe in the begettynge of his fathe◠〈◊〉 sayeth Paule it is the gyfte of god and nat of vs. My 〈…〉 sâ—ewe â—e 〈…〉 or an appatent cause why yer my wyll haue any workynge at allâ— More Nowe perceyue you good christen reders what an vnchristen mynde this euyll christen man hathe in those wordes that seme so fayre and playne in this present chapyter For thoughe he speke nat out so plainly in this chapyter as he dothe after in his answere to my thyrde boke as ye haue here herde yet that he falsely meneth in eyther place alyke ye may yet more plainly perceyue by hys wordes y â— in this chapiter immedyatly folow which are such sa may be as well ioyned to his foresayde wordes of his answere vnto my thyrde boke as to the wordes vnto whiche they be knytte in this present chapyter In whiche whan he hathe sayed that god maketh his electes se theyr dampnation in y â— lawe and also the mercy that is layed vp for them in Christes bloode and therto what he wyll haue them do it foloweth than forthwith Tyndale And then when we se his mercy we loue hym agayne and chose hym and submytte our selues vnto his lawes to walke in them For when we erre not in wytte reason and iudgement we can not erre in wyll and choyse of thynges The choyse of mannes wyll doth naturally and of her owne accorde folow the iugement of a mannes reason whyther he iudge ryghte or wronge so that in techyng onely resteth the pyth of a mannes lyuynge More Now trust I good reders that it is inoughe that we perceyue and se what Tyndale entendeth in thys chapitre of the ordre of our eleccyoÌ„ and that for all hys great exclamacyon we be nat yet so betle blynd but that we spye well inough whyche way this wyly serpeÌ„t walketh and that he goth about vnder colour of the prayse and commendacyon of goddes predestinacionâ— and ordynaunce vtterly concernyng fayth to put a way the wurke of maÌ„nes fre wyll and yet ouer that though â—om what more couertely of trouthe concernyng all other good workes to And all be it that he seme here to gyue mannes wyll in maner lyke place in the acte of our loue toward god as he gyueth god in the worke of our belyefe and fayth in vs yet whan he is well perceyued he bryngeth all to suche ineuytable necessyte that both in the tone and the tother and in all maner of good workes he taketh vtterly away all manes of meryt from the good men and electes gyueth vnto the euyll peple and reprobatys an excuse for theÌ„ selfe and an occasion to lay the wight of there iuste dampnacioÌ„ to the vniustyâ—e of goddes eternall ordynaunce and moste ryghtuouse predestynacyon And yet are all hys reasons in thys greate mater so small that a man may nat well wyt whyther they be more wykked or more wyttelesse Nowe all be it that I shall purpose to treat of thys matter more at longe wyth Tyndale whan I shall come to the coÌ„nfutacion of hys fond answeres made vnto the thyrde fourth bokes of my dyaloge yet can I nat presently forbere som what to shewe you of hys abomynable errour in thys poynt And yet in good fayth me semeth no very great nede hys folyes after hys wordes of bothe the places brought forth and layde togyther be now so playne and euydent of them selfe For who is so betle blynde that seeth nat clerely y â— darke deuelysh heresye of thys hyghe spyrytuall heretyque that sayth it is a betle blynde fleshely reason to thynke that the good endeuour of the mannes parte in wyllyngly conformyng hym selfe towarde the fayth and captyuyng and subdewyng hys reason and vnderstandyng in to the obsequy and obedyent seruyce of belyefe shulde be no maner helpe nor furtheraunce towarde the gettyng of any â—rysten fayth but y â— the wyll hath none operacyon at all in the workynge of fayth in mannes soule no more than the chylde hath in the bygetting of his father For here ye se wel that we speke of suche as are of age and haue the vse of reason If mannes wyll had no more part towarde the attaynynge of the belyefe than the chylde hath in the bygettyng of hys owne father I se nat wherfore our sauyoure shulde call vppon the people and byd them do penaunce and beleue the gospell as he dothe in the fyrste chapytre of saynt Marke For though it be very trew that wythout goddes helpe and goddes grace preuentyng and foregoyng no man can
turned he to the trewe fayth agayne and exhorted them all vnto the same And thus good reders ye se that of hys order of eleccyoÌ„ Tyndale hath in thys chapyter hytherto sayed no thynge to purpose now shall ye se that as lytell he sayth to purpose in thys that after foloweth Tyndale And though goddes electe can not so fall that they ryse not agayne bycause that the mercy of god euer wayteth vpâ—n them to delyuer them from euyll as the care oâ— a kynâ—e father wayteth vppon his sonne to warne hym and to kepe hym from occasyoÌ„s and to call hym backe agayn yf he be gone to farre yet they forgette them selues oftymes â—nd synke downe into traunces and fall a slepe in lustes for a season But as soone as they be awaked they repent and come agayne without resystaunce More Here maketh Tyndale as thoughe he sayde a greate thynge And whan his wordes are well examyned he both meneth very falsely speketh folysshe wylyly For where he sayeth that an electe can nat so fall but that he shal ryse agayne he meaneth that of necessyte the electe muste nedes ryse agayne thorâ—we the mercy of god that euer wayteth vpon him whiche is very false For all be it that of trouthe the electe shall aryse agayne by meane of goddes grace and mercy yet myghte he if he wolde lye styll in synne whan goddes grace and mercye calleth vpon him and byddeth hym ryse as many reprobates do vpon whome goddes grace and mercye wayteth and calleth as faste as he calleth vpon hys electes and is as redy to helpe them vp agayne as y â— tother if they wolde ryse and that the malyce or slouthe of theyr owne wylles letted them nat to take holde of goddes grace and made them nat lye styll in synne lyke swyne Nowe that Tyndale thus meneth appereth playne by the whole processe of his worke wherin as concernynge saluacyon and dampnacyon he laboreth to make vs wene that the wyll of man dothe nothynge wyllyngly but were vtterly forced and ineuitably necessytat by the eternal eleccyon of god vnto glory and his eternall reprobacyon vnto payne whiche is as moche as to say that the wyll of man is no wyll at all any more than as he myght saye that the wyll of a tre were to growe and brynge forthe frute leaues and that the wyll of an axe were to hewe downe the tre whan a man smyteth the tre therwith And that â—e thus specially meneth in thys chapyter of the ordre of our eleccycon appereth as well in generall by the hole progresse therof as by this also that he assigneth that thynge as the onely difference betwene the electes and the reprobates alledgynge that the electes can neuer so fall but that they shall ryse by the reason that mercy wayteth euer vpon them wherby it well appereth that Tyndale meneth that no reprobate that is to wytte none that finally shal be dampned hathe goddes mercy whyle â—elyueth waytynge vpon him to call vpon him and styrre him to ryse out of his synne For excepte he ment so he shulde put electes reprobates all in one case if he sayde that the mercy of god which onely thinge he sayeth waytyng vpon the electe reyseth hym out of synne wayted vpon the reprobate to but if he shulde put some dyfference bytwene them by reason of y â— different workyng of theyr fre wylles whiche Tyndale wyll none of in no wyse Now menynge falsely thus he vseth yet in hys speche a folysshe wylynes as doth a cony that couereth her hed and weneth all were well when all her loynes be open For he sayth that the electes can not so fall but that they shal be so saued bycause mercy wayteth vppon them And therin he sayth truth For yf god had not foresene that they wolde fynally turne agayne to hym and wyth helpe of hys grace deserue to be parte takers of the merâ—tes of Chryâ—tes passyon and so to be saued he wolde not haue elected theÌ„ to saluacyon But he meneth that they shall necessaryly be saued so that they shall not mow other then repent amend as soone as god of hys mercy calleth vpon them to repent And thys though he thus mene yet doth he dyssymule it and sayth not that bycause mercy wayteth euer vponÌ„ them therfore they muste nedes ryse after theyr fall but bycause mercy wayteth vpon them therfore they shall ryse But thys poynt he layeth so open in many places of his worke that it is but a folysshe wylynes of hym to wene it well couered thus wherfore he were as good to speke out playnely tell vs whyther he mene y â— after a fall mercy wayte any more vpon any reprobate or not If he say nay he sayth agaynst the scryptures playne For as in the begynnyng god of his greate mercy calleth vppon all people bothe electes and reprobates to come to hym so doth he after bothe twayne coÌ„men and receyued and gone a waye by synne agayne call ordynaryly vppon them bothe of hys lyke mercy styll as longe as they lyue in thys worlde here and wolde yf they wolde assente therto them selfe and obaye be as gladde to fynde them agayne as euer he was to wynne them before as the wordes of holy wrytte be playne in the Apocalyps I stande at the dore and knocke And yf Tyndale wyll auoyde thys he muste then saye that all the wordes of holy scrypture by whyche god called vppon the people to repentaunce be spoken onely to the electes And theÌ„ must he tell euery man how he may know hym selfe for electe leste he maye wene that they pertayne not to hym And then shall he by the same reason saye that all the coÌ„maundementes be wryten vnto the onely electes to and then the reprobates can not be reproued for the not obseruynge of them yf they were not wryten for them But surely if Tyndale tell vs that the mercye of god wayte vpon the onely electes and onely calleth vpoÌ„ them he telleth vs a vayne folysshe tale And so he dothe in dede for so he meneth in dede agaynste the playne scripture and all the olde interpretours of the same and agaynste all the olde holy doctours of Chrystes churche and agaynste the catholyke faythe of all christen nacyons this .xv. hundreth yere from the tyme of our sauyour hym selfe his blessyd apoâ—telles euen vnto lowsy Luther dayes And yet natwithstandinge that he semeth to assygne the cause of the rysynge of his electes out of theyr synne to be by the mercy of god alwaye waytyng vpon them yet handeleth he the mater so that a man may nat well wytte by these wordes of his whether he meane that whaÌ„ his electe is sonken downe into his traunces and fallen a slepe in his lustes as he calleth it for a season whether he meane I say that mercy calleth vpon hym in his traunce shaketh hym out of his slepe or els let him slepe styll in hys lustes and the deuyll
bycause they were but women whan the apostels them selfe knâ—we these women for suche as they were worthy more credence some one of them than some many men And for to excuse the apostels in the lacke of belefe bycause the messyngers were but women Tyndale dothe therein no more but lay lacke and ouersyght in oure sauyour that in a thynge that he wolde haue beleued sent out suche women on his myssage But Tyndale woteth well if he beleue the gospell that no more they dyd whan they sawe the myracle of hym selfe commyng in before them the dores beynge shette and spekynge vnto them but were so farre fro the belefe of his resurreccion at the fyrste that they had went that he had ben some spirite tyll he nat onely preched to them but also reasoned with them there vpon Nor yet saynte Thomas whiche as Tyndale sayeth coulde nat beleue tyll he sawe Chryste neyther dyd beleue the woman nor all his awne felowes nor our sauyour him selfe vpon the syght neyther tyll he felt him fully and put hys fynger in his syde And this he dyd of stoberne standynge in his mysse belefe in that after his belefe lackinge he went nat about to seke the truthe and endeuoure hym selfe to beleue them that tolde him the trouthe but as it semeth by the gospell obstinately stode in his distruste and sayd tyll he dyd that he thought of lykelyhede he neuer shuld that is to wytte tyll he felte hym and put his fynger into his woundes he wolde neuer beleue it And I saye plainly who so euer beynge enfourmed of any artycle of the faythe whiche god byndeth vs to beleue beleueth it nat the cause why he beleueth nat is nat bycause he can nat but bycause he wyll nat For if he wolde do the thynge whiche Tyndale taketh for foly that is to wytte nat resyste but endeuour hym selfe to submytte hys reason vnto faythe with askynge helpe of god for the fortheraunce of his imperfeccion he thus doynge hys parte god wolde I say nat fayle on his parte agayne but wolde effectually worke with hym to perfyte in hym the faythe in whyche he preuenteth hym by gâ—ace whyche preuencyon was whan he gaue hym the grace and occasyon to be fyrst tolde of the mater But euer cometh Tyndale by degrees euer he seeth hym selfe lykely to be dreuen fro steppe to steppe And therfore where he sayd y t the elecâ—e can nat synne dedely fyrste he alledgeth for the cause therof that he synneth neuer but vpon great occasyons And seynge that a man may therto say what than He goeth to another steppe and saieth that he neuer consenteth to synne And than seynge that steppe wyll nat be defended he goeth to another and sayeth he consenteth nat to synne to serue it And perceyuynge that he can nat stande sure there he steppeth downe to y e nexte and sayeth that he casteth nat of from his necke the yoke of of loue toward the law of god And yet perceyuynge y â— that steppe wyll not holde hym neyther he cometh at laste vnto a nother steppe and sayth he casteth it not of malycyously trustynge bycause we can not loke into the mannes breste to se whyther he bare any malyce therin we shold neuer be able to conuycte hym of that worde when he put on ys ther to malycyously And yet from y e steppe haue I dreuen hym therin haue I begyled his hope as ye before haue herde in the synnes of king Dauid by the wordes of god spoken by the mouth of Nathan the prophete Now as he played there so playeth he by the apostles here For fyrste he sayth they lost neuer the fayth bycause they were amased then astonyed and then aferde thâ—n bycause they coulde not perceyue the thynge for possâ—ble Ans yet at last he cometh so nere to the grauntynge y t they lacked it y t by playne wordes at length he sayth the same thyng hym selfe affermyng y t they byleued not nor coulde not byleue And yet wolde he now make vs wene that though they byleued not yet had they no lacke of the fayth bycause in the lacke of theyr bylyefe they hadde no malice And that thynge he proueth thus Tyndale There was none of them that euer â—aysed on hym and came so farre fâ—rth â—o say he was a deceyueâ— and wrought with the deuyls craâ—te all this whyle se wherunto he is come in the enâ—e we defye hym false wretâ—he that he was and his false doctriâ—e also And therunto music they haue comâ— at the lasâ—e when feare sorow and wonderynge had ben pasâ—e yf they had not â—en pâ—euented and holpen in the meane season More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders here hath Tyndale taught vs y t who so byleue not y e resurreccyoÌ„ of Chryst yet all y â— whyle he rayleth not vpoÌ„ hym calleth him wrech defieth him he is saue inough For all y e whyle though they byleue not yet lacketh he not hys kylyef And then if he be an â—lecte â— he shal be preuented of god holpen before ere euer he fall in to suche blasphemy But yf he be a reprobate then whan he cometh onys into y e case that y e apostles were in as Tindale sayth he shall for lacke of suche preuencyon helpe fall iâ—to suche raylyng and blasphemye then is he remedylesse he sayth And therfore sayth he bothe here and in dyuerse places that the seed of god preuâ—nteth alwaye and kepeth preserueth the electes from fallynge into y e case Here is a goodly tale be ye sure But now wherby shall Tyndale of thys doctryne make vs sure The gospell to begynne wyth for one pece maketh vs sure of the contrary For therin we fynde that the traytoure Iudas whyche was I wene as farre from the bylyefe of the resurreccyon as euer was saynt Thomas of Inde came neuer yet vnto suche raylynge and blasphemynge of Chryst as Tyndale sayth that the apostles bycause they byleued not had they not ben by grace preuented must nedes haue comen vnto For when he went about to make his bargayn bytray hym and sell hym we fynde not that he called hym false wretche nor no suche vylanouse word And after we fynde that when he repented and brought agayne the money he was farre from raylynge vppon hym and sayed I haue offended god in bytrayenge the ryghtuouse blode And surely though he had at the sellyng rayled as mych vpon him toward hys passyoÌ„ as Tyndale in hys bokes now rayleth iesteth vpon hym in the blessed sacrament after hys resurreccyon yet dare I be bolde vpon hys mercy to say that yf that olde Iudas in his repentauÌ„ce had with the loking vppon hys own synne loked also vpoÌ„ the great mercy of god and also that yf Tyndale now thys new Iudas wyll repeÌ„t hys raylynge agaynst Chrystes blessed body the sacrameÌ„t of the awlter aske our lord mercy therfore both the tone sholde haue had the tother shall haue remyssyon and
be burned here in Englande by the meane of his own bokes As Baynam the iangler and Hytton y â— Ioyner Teukesbery the purser and Bâ—yfeld thaposâ—ata a worshyppefull sort oâ— preachers And yet shall Tyndale fynde none of all these or any other that I haue herde of here but that he eyther though he helde some of Tyndalys yet he forsoke as false some parte of Tyndals heresyes or held as trew some such thynge besyde as Tyndale wolde I wote well yf hym selfe were apposed afferme to be very falsâ— And of this yf Tindale dare deny it I shall playnely proue both the partes And therfore let Tyndale of those that hâ—ue ben burned here chose whych he lyste and name of thâ—ym all some one that he wyll call a trewe prechour and than shall I proue you shortely that yf that prechour be trew Tyndale shall euyn by that prechour whom hym self wyll name for trewe be playnely proued false Then rayleth he ferther on and sayth They 〈…〉 ture from the laye people that they shâ—â—â—e not 〈…〉 I haue in the boke of my dyaloge proued all redyâ— that Tyndale doth in thys poynt falsely belye the clergye and that of trouth wyclyffe and Tyndale and frere Barns suche other haue bene the onely cause for whych the scrypture hath ben of necessyte kept out of the lay peoples handes and that of late specyally by the polytyke prouysyon and ordynaunce of our most excellent souerayne the kynges noble grace not wythoute greate and vrgent causes manyfestely rysynge vppon the false malycyouse meanes of wyllyam Tyndale for whych all the lay people of this realme bothe the euyll folke that take harme by hym and the good folke that lese the profyte by hymâ— haue greaâ—â— cause to lament that euer that man was borne Then forth he goeth on ferther in hys lyes and saythâ— They haue put the storyes that sholde in many thynges 〈…〉 waye as nygh as thâ—y coulde How proueth Tyndale thys lye of hys to be trewe â— let hym proue hys lye trewe in some one story that the chyrche hath put awaye and then tell vs thys tale agayn For they neuer put any awaye but suche as were fayned gospels and fables whyche the chyrche by the spyryte of god whose gyfte Luther confesseth it to haue in that poynte dyd euer more consyderately reiecte and auoyde as it partely appereth by saynt Hierom concernynge the booke of the infancye of our sauyour But fayne wolde Tyndale haue some such fals fayned storyes remayne taken for scrypture to th ende enteÌ„t that as his hâ—resyes be by the very scrypture coÌ„futed and reproued so they myght be by some such false scrypture mayntayned agayne allowed But then rayleth Tyndale ferther yet and lyeth agayn agaynst the chyrche and sayth They haue corrupted the legende and lyues all moste of all sayntes who hath corrupted these legendes let hym name some one and proue it or els let hym leue of hys lyenge The legendes of sayntes lyues were wryten in dyuers tymes as the sayntes in dyuerse tymed lyued and in dyuâ—rs dyed of whose lyues the chyrch none other knoweth but as they fynde wryten or herde by good folke that knew them sauyng that the spyryte of god by whych it knoweth and dyscerneth as saynt Austayn sayth Luther hym selfe alloweth whych is the very scrypture shall not suffre it as that holy doctour saynt Thomas sayth to erre and be deceyued in takynge for a saynt any dampned person therby geue to goddes enemye the honour dew to hys frende And by thys spyryt what so euer be wryten in the legende of any saynte the chyrche dyscerneth yf any thyng were at any tyme in the good man a mysse so taketh it as a faute for the tyme and afterwarde amended as we rede of some of Crystes owne apostles reported in the very gospell And the chyrche also doth not precysely bynde any man to the bylyef of euery thyng wryten in a legend as though euery sayntes legende were parte of the scrypture of god But the thynge that Tyndale is offended wyth is this that the legendes of sayntes testyfye theyr holy lyuynge myracles that god shewed for them wherof we fynde no legende lyke that euer was wryten for any saynt that in obstynate heresyes departed dyed out of y e catholike chyrch Now confesseth Tyndale that all the sayntes legendes be not so corrupted but he saith almost all In which word he sayth inough for vs agaynst hym selfe For let hym leue neuer so few tell vs which they be and I dowte not then in good fayth but that we shall in that fewe fynde thynges inough to proue hys heresyes false yet goth he ferther agaynste the chyrche and sayth They haue fayned false bookes and put them forth some in the name of saynt Hierâ—m some in the name of saynt Augustyne and in the name of saynt Cipryane saynt Deonyse and other holy men whych are proued nâ—ne of theyrs partely by style and laten â—nd partely by autentyke storyes Here wolde he fayne good chrysten reders bryng vs all in dowte of all the olde holy doctours wurkes bycause he were lothe by hys wyll that any were of them all byleued But what great harme and losse were there in the mater though it somtyme happed the boke of one good holy man to be named the boke of an other as a boke of saynte Austayn to be taken for a boke of saynt Ambrose There were in such a mater no very great hurte yf it so happed in dede But to the entent that ye shall playnely perceyue that thys tale of Tyndale wherwyth he wold fayne blynde vs shall nothynge serue for hys purpose let hym take the bokes of whyche hym selfe nothynge douteth and euyn by y t selfe same shall he fynde hys opynyons proued playne heresyes Or ellys let Tyndale fynd vs in some of theyr trew bokes whych he douteth not to be theyr owne in dede let hym proue I saye by theym that all those bokes be falsely put out in theyr names in whych bokes he fyndeth yf they be trewe all holy saintes agre agaynst hym selfe that good wurkes are merytoryouse that folkes do well to honour sayntes theyr relyques and go in pylgrymages and to praye for all chrysten soules to honour the blessed sacrameÌ„t and that it is abominable for freres to wedde nonnes such other thynges lyke Let Tindale I say fynde vs the contrary of these â—alys taught vs in theyr trewe bokes or els let hym tell vs no more of hys own tale but leue of his lyes lyke a fole And fyrst for the meane whyle the boke in whych saynt Austayn maketh thys reason that we now talke of for the catholyke chyrch Tyndale doth hym selfe coÌ„fesse to be the very boke of saynt Austayne And then doth this râ—ason alone playnely perfytely proue this knoweÌ„ catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste consequently therby proueth Tindale that techeth the
contrary to be in the grettest poynte that any man lyghtely can fall in on whiche poynt most heresies do depeÌ„de a very playne opeÌ„ heretyke Now where he rayleth on and sayth that Lyke wyse as the Iewys had set vp a boke of theyr Talmud to destroye the sense of the scrypture so the chyrche hath set vp he sayth theyr Dunce theyr Thomas and a thousand lyke draffe to stablysse theyr lyes thorow falsefyeng the scripture I can no scyll of the Iewes Talmud but one thing I dowte not of but y â— theyr Talmud in y t it gaue false expesycyoÌ„ was a late thyng at the comyng of Cryst yf they had theÌ„ any such boke And I dowte not but that the thinges that were fals therin varyed from the consent of theyr olde exposytours by whych the falshed of it myght be spyed controlled and be byleued the lesse But our doctours of these eyghte hundred yeres laste passed all whome thys worthy wylde gose calleth draffe do consente and agre wyth the olde holy doctours of the tother .vii hundred yere afore And as well all those olde whom he dare not call but holy as these other thousande whom he calleth draffe drawe by one lyne all the mayny to dreue Tyndale as a drudge of the deuyll out of Crystes chyrche for an heretyke or ellys as I haue almost a thousande tymes desyred hym let Tyndale tell vs of all those old which one taught it for lawfull a frere to wed a noÌ„ne Now where the wretche rayleth by name vppon that holy doctoure saynt Thomas a man of that lernyng that the greate excellent wyttes and the moste connynge men that the chyrche of Cryste hath hadde synnes hys dayes haue estemed and called hym the very floure of theology and a man of that trewe perfyte fayth and crysten lyuynge therto that god hath hym selfe testyfyed hys holynesse by many a greate myracle and made hym honowred here in hys chyrche in erth as he hath exalted hym to greate glory in heuyn this gloryouse saynt of god wyth all other lyke and those be of trouth all the whole many bothe olde and newe togyther all whome therfore by the whole thousand on an hepe for no fewer he nombreth them doth thys deuelysshe dronken soule abomynably blaspheme and calleth them lyars and falsefyers of scrypture and maketh them no better then draffe But thys drowsy drudge hath dronken so depe in the deuyls dregges that but if he wake and repente hym selfe the soner he maye happe ere awghte longe to fall into the messhynge fatte and turne hym selfe in to draffe as the hogges of hell shall fede vppon and fyll theyr belyes therof But when the beste hath thus blasphemed theym all then wold he wynde out with a wyle and make men wene that he ment but the doctours of these last eyghte hundred yeres which were yet inough to laye such a raylyng knaue eyghte hundred myle depe in hell But syth he sayth a thousand lyke vnto saynt Thomas he can not so escape as though he met but saynt Bernard saynt Bonauenture saynt Ancelme and suche other holy men of these eyght hundred yeres passed laste but he must nedes take into them all the olde holy sayntes of the seuen hundred yeres byfore as many as in suche thynges as Tyndale fyndeth fawte wyth expownyng the scrypture agaynst the mynd of Tyndale lyke wise as saint Thomas doth But nowe to coloure his blasphemy those wolde he sholde seme were none And therfore â—o thus he sayth Tyndale And yf a man alledge any holy doctour agaynst them they glose hym out as the do the scrypture or wyll not here or say the chyrche hath other wyse determyned More Lo good cristen reder this false pageaunt playeth Tyndale in mo places then one makynge as though that in the maters of his heresies the new doctours onely were agaynste hym And yet calleth he the new the doctours of eyght hundred yere olde and suche a new cote I wold he gate hym and were oute his olde the whyle And then maketh he as though the old of the tother seuen huÌ„dred yere byfore were vpon his parte all the whole mayny and coÌ„strued the scripture as he doth and condeÌ„ne these exposycyons that the new doctours of eyght huÌ„dred yere olde and vnder haue made synnys And he sayth that agaynste all holy doctoures when he layeth any one agaynst vs we glose hym out or wyll not here hym or say the chyrch hathe otherwyse determyned Here must Tyndale vnderstand that we neuer bynde hym to any thynge of necessyte vppon the saynge of any one doctoure be he olde or yonge but eyther by the comen faste fayth of the whole catholyke chyrch groweÌ„ as yt euer doth by the spyryte of god that maketh men of one mynde in his chyrche or by the determynacyon of the chyrche assembled for such causes in the generall counsayles And then the comen fayth of olde tymes byfore our dayes we presume to be suche of lykelyhed as we perceyue by the olde holy sayntes bokes that they were of them selfe For other wyse then by bokes can we not knowe what the people byleued a thousand yere ago but yf we myght talke with the men them selfe and aske theym Now yf Tyndale coulde laye vs for his purpose peraduenture a worde of some one holy man yt were no reason to bydde vs byleue that one byfore the coÌ„sent of many nor agaynste the comen bylyefe of the catholyque chyrche secretely growen to consent by the holy spyryte of god nor agaynst the consent of the catholyque chyrche dyffynynge that poynt in a generall couÌ„sayle thorow the same spyrite Now when we thus do Tyndale can not say that we refuse to here that one holy man whome he shall peaduenture alledge vs for his purpose For in thus doyenge we do here hym and folow hym For euery one of all the olde holy men dyd euer submytte his owne mynde to the determynacyon of the catholyque chyrche and bode euery man do the lyke And of them all we wote wel Tyndale fyndeth not one that sayth contrary to thys How be it thus myche haue I shewed you rather to tell vs somwhat of the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche aboue any one holy man then for any holy man that euer I thynke Tyndale shal be able to brynge forth for the confyrmacyon of his heresyes But now to put this mater out of all dowte and qustey on that euery man may se whether Tyndale speke here in ernest as he thynketh or ellys sayth all thys but for a shyft let him now stande well to his tacklynge and stykke styffely therto Let vs concernynge the ryght construccyon of scrypture or corruptynge the trew sense therof coÌ„sydre some one heresye of his for whyche the chyrch calleth hym heretyque let vs se now we saye that yt ys abomynable for a monke or a frere to wedde a nuÌ„ne Tyndale sayth we saye wronge and that a frere to wedde a nunne is
byleue not the gospell Now as for me I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche moued me therto Thenne syth I obeyd them in that they bode me byleue the gospell why shold I not byleue them in that they bydde me byleue not Manicheê° wyll ye now that I byleue the catholike chirch or not Chese now your selfe whyther parte ye wyll yf ye byd me byleue the catholyke chyrch they be those that byd me y â— I sholde not in any wyse gyue any credeÌ„ce vnto you wherfore byleuyng them I can in no wyse byleue you Then on the tother syde yf ye wolde saye to me byleue not the catholyke chyrch then can ye not of reason bynde me by the gospell to byleue Manicheus syth I had not byleued the gospell it selfe but for the catholyke chyrche Now yf ye wolde then say to me thou dydest well to byleue the catholyke chyrch in that they coÌ„meÌ„ded the gospel but thow doste not well to byleue them in y â— they dysprayse Manicheus wene ye me so very a fole that tellyng me no cause wherfore I shold byleue what so euer ye byd me and byleue in no wyse what ye lyste forbyd me yet mych more reasonably more cyrcuÌ„spectely do now I in that I dedeparte not from y e catholyke chyrche whych I haue onys byleued translate my selfe to you but yf that ye can fyrst not bydde and coÌ„maund me byleue but openly and clerely som what make me knowe wherfore good reason wolde I shold byleue wherfore yf ye wyll shew me any reason then let the gospell alone For yf you take you to y e gospel then wyll I take me to the chyrch by whose coÌ„maundement I byleued the gospell and then by the commaundement of the same chyrche I must in no wyse byleue yoâ— Now yf it so were that ye coulde by possybylyte fynde in the gospell somwhat that coulde clerely proue Manicheus to be Crystes apostle then must it folow theruppon yf I sholde byleue you therfore that I must then not byleue the catholyke chyrche 〈◊〉 byddeth me byleue not you And then agayn yf I 〈◊〉 not the chyrche then can I not byleue the gospell syth I byleue the gospell for the chyrche so could nothynge serue you that ye shold bryng of the gospell And therfore yf ye â—rynge no clere thyng out of y e gospell to proue Manicheus Crystes apostle I must rather byleue the catholyke chyrche then you And on the tother syde yf ye found for Manicheus any manyfest thynge in the gospell then coulde I neyther byleue the chyrche nor you not the chyrche bycause they lyed to me of you when they told me ye were not to be byleued nor you bycause ye proue your parte but by that scripture which scrypture I byleued not but thorow byleuyng them whom I â—ught not to byleue bycause they prouâ— them self false in makyng a lye of you But god forbyd that I shold not byleue the gospell for byleuyng the gospell I can not fynde how I shold byleue you For among all the apostles names y â— are there found y e name of Manicheê° it not fouÌ„d Lo good chrysten reders here se ye playnely that Tyndale is tellynge vs that saynt Austayne where he sayth he wolde not byleue the gospell it selfe sauynge for the authoryte of the chyrche dyd mene therin nothyng ellys but the good lyuynge that then was in the chyrche and theyr constaunce in persecucyoÌ„ ledde hym to bylâ—ue them in techyng whyche was the scrypture it well appereth I say by saynt Austayns owne wordes that the chyrche truely taketh his wordes and Tyndale vntruely glosâ—th them For neyther doth saynt Austayne in this arguyng reproue the lyuyng of the Manycheise nor extolle and commende the lyuynge of the catholyke chyrche but in suche wyse maketh his argument as it both maye and muste serue for the knowen catholyke chyrche agaynste all kyndes of heretykes what so euer the lyuynge be of the tone parte or the tother And this argument is made more stronge now by thre partes than it was whan he made it And syth the chyrche shall as Cryst promysed neuer fayle the argument of saynt Austayne for some of the causes consydered shall euery daye be strenger for the chyrche then other as longe as y e world shall stande For saynt Austayne alledgeth there for one of the causes that moued hym the contynuaunce of the chyrche whiche than had contynued in sâ—â—cessyon aboute the space of foure hundred yere How 〈◊〉 is that stronger now after the contynuaunce in succâ—â—â—â—â—n the space of .xv. C. yeres And as for myracles wyth whych as saynt Austayne sayth they that byleue not be fyrst comenly moued to gyue fayth and credence the comon knowen catholyke chyrche neuer lacketh nor no chyrch of heretykes neuer hath And thus I saye good reders ye may perceyue by that place in saynt Austayne whyche I haue rehersed you and by hys other foure chapyters immedyate before that the mynde and entent of saynt Austayne is playne that god of his goodnesse offereth men occasyon and by good and substancyall causes helpeth them that are wyllynge fyrste of all to knowe the trewe chyrcheâ— of whyche euery trewe precher is a member And then lyke as god vseth myracles dyuers other meanes by whyche meanes hisâ— helpe grace maketh the well wyllyng person to perceyâ—e know whychâ— is his very chyrch so doth he after vse the same chyrch for a â—eane by whych he maketh a maÌ„â—now whych is the very scrypture ye and ouer that in thynges necessarye for saluacyon whych is the very sense and the trew vnderstaÌ„dynge of the very scryptureâ— ye and when god hath vsed the knowledge of the chyrche to make a man know whyche is the scrypture then is the same scrypture a very sure meane to conferme him the faster and y e more surely in the knowlege byliefe of the chyrch he shall so surely therin se proued the thynge that he before perceyued and byleued that the catholyke chyrche is the veâ—y chyrche An this is the trew order and the playn â—â—tente and menynge of saynt Austayne as yt playnely appereth as well in his byfore remembryd boke as in the worke of his confessyons in the order of his owne conuersyon and very playnly in a pystle of his agaynst the Donatystes whych is in his boke of pystles .cxlviii. In whych saynt Austayn playnely sheweth that the knowen catholyke chyrche is playnely by scrypture proued the very chyrche and that in all doutes and questyons euery man muste stande vnto that ende whych shall be eyther by the same chyrch determyned or by the generall custome of the same chyrche approued Saynte Austayne also in his thyrde boke agaynste the pystle of Permenâ—ane sayth in playne wordes that there is no suertye of any vnyte but yf the chyrche be declared and knowen whyche accordyng to goddes promyse sette vppon an hyll can in no
deuyls fayth euery man I wene that well marketh y â— mater wyll be lykely to call hys propre scoffe but a very colde conceyt of my goffe that he founde and tokâ— vp at sottys hoffe I say to Tyndale yet agayne that as ferforth as perteyneth onely to the nature of fayth that is to wyt to the bare bylyefe alone that fayth that maye stande wyth all maner of ahomynacyon is a very ryght fayth and a trewe But I saye that though it be as it is bothe ryght and trewe yet is it not suffycyent to bryng a man to heuyn yf it not onely maye but also do stande wyth any kynde of abomynable synne bycause it is than lewd Luthers fayth and Tindals fayth y â— is to saye fayth not alone but fayth coupled with abomynable synne But now that fayth alone that is to saye bylyefe alone is very ryght fayth and bylyefe is a poynt whyche I haue all redy proued hym mych more ofte I dare well saye then hymselfe hath sayde masse thys moneth and therfore I wyll not now laboure mych about it And to say the trouth the thynge is so playne open of it selfe that sauynge for thimportune bablynge of these heretykes no man sholde euer haue neded to go aboute the profe at all For what sholde I go about to proue the thyng that saynt Poule proueth for me whych sayth of hym selfe y â— though he had all fayth yet yf he lacke cheryte therwith he were no thynge what nede I now to go any ferther therin syth saynt Iamys reasoneth dysputeth dyssyneth the mater coÌ„cludyng that fayth maye be wethout good wurkes but then affyrmyng that when it so is than it is dede not dede in the nature of fayth but dede as vnto the state of saluacyon as the men of whome oure sauyour spake where he sayth Let the dede men very theyr dede men and folowe thou me he ment not I suppose that men naturally ded in dede sholde bere the dede corps to beryenge ye sayth Tyndale but yet thys is not the ryght fayth of Cryste I saye yes for as farre as belongeth to the onely faythâ— that is to saye to the onely bylyefe of these poyntes artycles that Cryste wyll haue vs bounden to byleue yet sayth Tyndale thys fayth is not suffycyent for saluacyon but yf it haue with it bothe hope and cheryte what nedeth Tyndale to tell vs that tale who dyd eueâ— say nay to thatâ— But yet be fayth hope and cheryte thre dyuers dystincte vertues For as saynt Poule sayth fayth hope cheryte the greter of these is cheryte yet sayth Tyndale thoâ—e thre be thre systers that neuer be asuÌ„der so that who so euer hath any one hath all That is playne vntrew For yf that heresye were trew then who so euer had fayth had all thre and who so euer had all thre had all that euer he neded But now bycause of that false heresye lest he that byleueth ryght in all the artycles shold wene that therefore he lacked not cheryte so were saufe inough neded no more this was y e very cause for which both saynt Poule and saynt Iamys labored so myche to tell vs that Tindale lyeth and that a man may haue fayth and lacke yet bothe hope and cheryte ye sayth Tyndale but that is but an hystorycall fayth that a man getteth by hym self of his onely naturall power is not the wurke of god in his soule and therfore y â— faith is but faynt feble and soone gone agayne is therfore no ryght fayth nor no chrysten fayth For the ryghte fayth is wrought wryten alway by god hym selfe in the maÌ„nes harte and therfore it is neuer withoute hope and cheryte wrought wryten within the harte togyther with y â— fayth and is therfore a felyuge â—ayth that neuer can fayle ther â—n neuer can ceace both to hope well and wurke well Thys is of trouth the whole somme and effect of Tyndales holy tale wherin he dyd somwhat yf he wolde onys proue vs halfe But fyrst I denye y t euery historicall faith y t is to say euery hystorycall bylyefe credeÌ„ce is so faynt so feble that it is so soone gone as Tindale sayth it is For we se profe inough that wyth many men it standeth styll all theyr lyfe be the thynge trewe or falâ—e as the false story of Machomet many Turkes take for so trewe that they wyll not withstandyng many suffycyeÌ„t causes wherfore of reason they sholde reken it for false they wyll I saye yet of obstynacy stand styll therin and abyde bond slaues in chrysten contrees vppon the borders of Turkaye ye and dyde theron to rather then byleue the contrary I saye forther that it is not trewe that man in the bylyefe of the artycles of the chrysteÌ„ fayth geteth that bylyefe by hym selfe of his own naturall power wythout the helpe of god wurkynge wyth hym and yet I speke here of bare bylyefe cheryte not yet ioyned wyth it For syth euery man that seketh for the bylyefe and endeuoreth hym self therto purposeth therby to seke the way to saluacyon the corrupte nature of man can neuer begyn to entre into that iournaye nor walke forth one fote therin but yf he be bothe fyrste preuented by grace and haue it walke wyth hym styll For our sauyour sayth wythout me can ye nothynge do But lyke wyse as a man maye by goddes helpe that calleth vppon euery man entre in towarde the bylyefe yet leue agayne ere he gete it and byleue some one poynt and yet leue of at an other so maye he go forth wyth god into all the poyntes of bylyefe and yet leue of and lacke hope He maye olso go forth in bylyefe and hope to ye and ouer greate hope to and yet for the purpose of some flesshely delyte whyche he is not in mynde to leue he maye leue of and lacke cheryte For though the deuyll maye besyde such thynges as he verely knoweth byleue some suche artycles as we do wyth out any preuencyon of grace for as mych as in him beyng perpetually dampned the bylyefe can be no furtheraunce towarde saluacion and therfore can in hym be no mater of the wurke of grace yet in man to whome the faythe is by goddes ordynaunce prouyded for a waye toward saluacion tough the way be two longe lanes besyde fayth therfore he may leue if he lystere he come at any of y e lanys end that is to wytte hope and charyte yet neuer can he fynde y e enterynge into the fyrste lane that to wytte into fayth nor neuer can he sette forth any fote forwarde in yt but yf god worke wyth his wyll For our sauour sayth no man can come to me but if my father drawe hym And who so be fallen into a depe pytte and thens drawen out is not drawen from the brynke but from the botome And so lyke wise god
that draweth draweth euen from the begynnynge and casteth downe the cord of his grace to take holde vpon wheruppon who so taketh hold and holdeth styll is by god drawen vnto god and helpeth hym selfe to be drawen For as saynt Poule sayth we helpe forth wyth god I say also that after that god hath wrought wyth mannys wyll and called hym by preuencyon of grace at the yeres of dyscrecyon eyther from Iudaisme or fro gentylyty and fyndynge no lette in the man hath by baptysme fully infounded the fayth and wyth hope and cheryte put hym in state of grace whych is all the wrytyng in the harte that euer I herde of this man hauynge nowe not fayth alone but hope and cheryte to and standynge in suche state of grace that yf he then so deceaced his soule sholde forthe with flye in to blysse byfore his body were colde yet when he doth after that infusyon of fayth and grace any thefte or auowtry he leseth charyte alway by custome of synne somtyme hope to and leueth but bare fayth that is to say bylyefe alone and somtyme by false doctrine of heretykes leseth some of that to Aud yet is fayth alone good to be kepte ye and the very peyces and fragmentes of the fayth also for they be meanes by whyche a man maye the more easely come to the remanaunt that he hath loste or lakketh And they helpe wyth goddes forther helpe to kepe a man from some synne though they kepe hym not from all For some man that falleth to thefte somtyme remembereth yet his baptyme and beynge by the deuyll entyced to kyll the man maketh a crosse vppon his brest prayeth Crist kepe hym from it in aduowtry lyke wyse And god in that good mynde preueÌ„teth the man by grace worketh wyth hys wyll in kepynge hym therefro as he gaue hym good thoughtes and offred hym his grace yf he wold haue taken holde therof to kepe hym 〈◊〉 the tother to And I doute not but yf god left hym in the â—one as he lâ—â—te god in the tother the deuyll that wyth his 〈◊〉 brought his wyll to thefte and aduowtry wolde â—rynge hym to manslaughter also and make hym kyll and murther the tone man for his money the tother man for his wyfe And thus ye se that of Tyndales ryall tale there is not one worde yet proued trew sauynge where he sayeth that all which come of Abrahams seed are nor Abrahams chyldren all but they only that folowe the fayth of Abraham For I wyll graunt hym this and a great deale more so For I say farther that all be â—ot Abrahams chyldren that haue Abrahams fayth but if they haue his charyâ—e to and therby worke his workes For our sauyour sayth yf ye be the chyldren of Abraham worke ye the workes of Abraham But ye be sayth he the chyldren of the deuyll and after his desyres wyll ye do well wyll Tyndale yet say syth yt is so that M. More grauÌ„teth hym selfe y t though fayth alone be a very fayth and right and trew for so farre as it stretcheth yet bycause yt stretcheth not farre inough to saluacyon in that yt beynge but alone lakketh both hope and charyte wherfore doth mayster More speke so myche therof beyng as hym selfe confesseth but insuffycient and not rather let yt passe and exhorte euery man to my felyng fayth that is both suffycyent and also can neuer fayle As for the fyrste poynte the blame be theyrs that haue geuyn the occasyoÌ„ For men haue be fayn to speke so mych of fayth alone for the selâ—e same cause for whyche saynte Poule dyd speke therof and saynt Iamys both that is to wyt bycause these heretikes now folowed the false secte of some suche as were then in the apostles tyme teachynge that fayth alone was inough for saluacyon as Tyndales mayster Martyne Luther doth manyfestly and playne in his Babilonica where he sayeth expressely that a chrysten man can neuer be dampned yf he will byleue nor no synne can damne hym but only inâ—rudelyte that is to say lakke of bylyefe For as for all other â—ynnys what so euer they be fayth saith he if it eyther abyde styll or come agayn suppeth theym all vppe in a moment and that god hath no nede of mannys good workes but that he hath nede of oure fayth alone This maketh folke to speke of fayth alone and shewe by y e authorite of saynt Poule and saynt Iamys and many other places of holy scrypture that Tyndales mayster holy Luther lyeth But yet wyll Tyndale saye syth I do nowe speke of fayth that is felynge and worketh well and by reason of the felyng a can not but worke well what sholde mayster More eyle now to speke any more of the tother faith alone that for lakke of felynge worketh not consyderyâ—ge also that I bysyde the fayth that feleth and worketk well adde repentaunce also of all that men do amysse what fauâ— ther fore fyndeth he now or what wolde the man haue more Fyrste there ys yet cause to speke of fayth alone bycause Tyndale is not an heretyke alone but y t there be many mo besyde hym whyche yet saye styll as Luther dyd byfore Also there is cause bycause of Tyndale specyally which wolde glose Luthers olde heresye wyth these new wordes whych wyll in no wyse stande wyth whych he wold make the world to wene that in fayth alone he ment fayth hope and charyte and that yt coulde not be that he any other ment bycause there can be none other fayth but onely that alone y t hath both hope and charyte therwith and by thys bald glose that thre vertues be all one vertue and that one vertue were thre agaynst both reason and scripture wold he mokke vnlerned people and make them byleue that Luther ment well and that all other men were so madde that they coulde not vnderstande hym And therfore to make open this wyly foly of Tyndale is also a cause why that I speke so myche of fayth alone bysydes the necessyte of answerynge hym concernynge his worshyppefull euasyon of his owne felynge fayth on whych he hopeth that he maye be bold bycause no man can come into his brest to se what maner of felynge hym selfe feleth there But yet hath god of his great goodnes begyled hym made hym so madde in the brayne that he hath vttred hym selfe such thynges with his own peÌ„ne as our sauyour sayenge hym self y t the mouth speketh of the abuÌ„daunce or fulnesse of the herte muste nedes make euery man to fele euen at his fyngers ende that Tyndale in the botome of hys harte wyth his fulsome felynge fayth feleth a foule fylthy hepe of false sumblynge heresyes For yet is his fayth worse then fayth alone whyche he calleth the deuyls fayth and myne For as saynte Iamys sayth The deuyls do both byleue tremble also for drede but thou sayeth he to Tyndale and euery suche as Tyndale is that for his felyng fayth
sayth y t he is so great with god y t he may do many horryble dedes wythout any dedly synne art worse theÌ„ y e deuyll bycause thou doste not drede Bysydes this syth Tyndale teacheth suche a felynge fayth as no fayth as he sayth can saue a soule but yt and then teacheth therwyth all that toward the getyng therof no man can any more do then the chylde can to the bygettynge of his owne father that is to say all mosâ—e lesse then ryght nought what doth he by this teachynge but teache euery man to syt styll go nothynge aboute ytâ— And when he sayth good workes be nothynge of our wyll but necessaryly sprynge out of the felyng fayth and yet be but lyke leues rather then frut for he sayth they shall neuer haue rewarde in heuen bâ—t that yt were damnable to thynke that euer they shold thoâ—gh he wold by other wordes byd men to do them yet doth he by this tale so strongly teache the contrarye that who so byleueth hym shall leue theym all vndone And when he teacheth repentaunce wythout shryft or penauÌ„ce sayth y e shryft is the inuencyon of the deuyll could he euer haue comen into the felyng of that false fayth but yf the deuyls owne hand had fumbled about his herte I passe ouer his false fayth in all the other sacrameÌ„tes his calling of Cristê blessed body bare cakebrede or sterche with his doctryne of lecherye betwene freres and nunnes and many madde fransyes mo that he techeth besyde this one thynge is inough and may serue for all to gether that he teacheth his felynge fayth onely to serue for saluacyon and wythout whych he sheweth euery mau must nedes go to the deuyll For other fayth he putteh none but such as he sayth is frutelesse and then teachynge therwythall that towarde the getynge of that fayth whyche excepte he gete he muste nedes to the denyll no man can any thynge at all do by good endeuour he both techeth that it were in vayn for any man to labour for yt or so myche as pray therfore or in hys herte onys to wyshe yt syth he coulde wyth no suche thynge helpe any thynge towarde yt or forsuch desyre be any thynge the nerer but syt euen styll and let god worke alone And yf he fele any good mynde neuer labour to kepe it For he that sent it can kepe it yf he lyste And yf he wyll not what can the man do And yf he wyll the man then shall not nede nor nothyng can yf he wold in tornyng towarde god no more then the hachette can in a mannys hande which though it may with the maÌ„nys hand wurke vppon the tree yet canne yt not of the owne nature any thynge helpe it selfe to moue and turne backe towarde the man Thys is Tyndalys teachynge and thys ys hys owne ensample wherby he sheweth vs that we canne nothynge do in turnynge towarde god but god doth all alone And thys dothe Tyndale tell vs and well and boldely dare no thynge aferde of god that cryeth the contrary by the mouth of Salomon where he sayth Turne agayne thou Sunamyte turne agayne And where he sayth also Turne to me and I wyll turne to you wolde the prophete wene you haue sayd so to hys hachet Now where he sayth also Turne you to me ye shall be saued Lyke as if man coulde turne wythout god Cryste wolde not saye wythout me ye can do nothynge so yf on the tother syde man coulde nothynge at all do in the turnynge towarde hym no more then can the hachette in turnynge towarde the man god wolde not so often and so ernestely call and cry vppon vs nor â—tande and knocke at the dore of oure harte yf our selfe coulde nothynge do to the openynge therof and therby to lette hym in Now Tyndale not onely techeth vs this vngracyouse lesson by whyche he wolde make men so to loke for grace that for the lacke of theyr owne endeuoure they maye be wurthy to lese it but also syth he both techeth vs that with out that fayth euery man is dampned and then techeth vs also that to the geâ—tyng therof no man can nothyng do he techeth I say by these two thinges togither euery wreched wylfull beste to lay the weyght of his wrechednes the malyce of hys own wreched wyll vnto the prouydence predestynacyon of god And syth that thys ys so hygh an heresye so sore blasphemynge the hyghe maiestye of god I saye that Tyndalys felynge faythe ys yet farre wurse not onely then bare faythe alone but also thenne no faythe at all as it were lesse euyll neuer to haue herde of god nor neuer hâ—ue thought of hym neyther then to byleue that there is god and then so bestely to blaspheme hym And where as Tyndale calleth fayth alone the fayth of the pope and of the deuyll me what fayth the pope hath or my selfe eyther god shal be iudge and not Tyndale But surely as for hys owne felynge fayth hym selfe here â—â—erely declareth that it is double as deuelyshe as the deuyls own fayth in dede Fyrste for the poynt that saynt Iamys speketh of bycause of hys malepert presumpcyon affyrmynge that for the felynge fayth he maye do myche horryble dedes wythout any dedely synne therfore is as saynt Iamys sayeth oute of the drede of god and therin worse then the deuyll whyche bothe beleueth and trymbleth also for drede And secundely is hys felynge fayth wurse then the deuyls is in that the deuyll byleueth that the very body of Cryste is in the blessed sacrament of the aulter and fereth and trymbleth and gyueth reuerence therto ye and vnto the image of Crystes crosse also as hath in euery agâ— bene proued in sundry places of chrystendome and dayly appereth yet where as Tyndale calleth blessynge and crossyng but waggyng of folkes fyngers in the ayre and fereth not lyke one that wolde at length wagge hempe in the wynd to mocke at all such myracles and say the deuyll fleeth froÌ„ folkes blessyâ—ges as men fle from chyldren faynyng them selfe aferd of them when they lyste to sporte and playe with them nor fereth to mocke the sacrament the blessed body of god full lyke a stretche hempe call it but cake brede or starche And fynally yet is hys faythlesse felyng fayth farre wurse then is the deuyls in that the deuyll I dare saye byleueth and so sayeth to mennes charge that suche as do not byleue myghte yf they wolde and such as do not turne to god myghte yf they lyste and layeth vnto the dampned soules the cause of theyr owne dampnacyon where Tyndale techyng vs y t they could do no thyng to the contrary layeth of theyr daÌ„pnacyoÌ„ all y e blame in god which plasphemouse heresye is such an heighnouse kynde of abominable outragyouse blasphemy y t I veryly suppose in my mynde thys poynt y t Tindals faith feleth in his hert y t very wurst daÌ„pned deuyll in the depest
whyche hath bene onys at Hierusalem may lye by authoryte bycause he shall be sure seldome to mete any man that hath be there by whome hys tale myghte be controlled But Tyndale hath here to lye without controllement wyth lesse labour sought out a shorter waye and as hym selfe thynketh a surer to For he goeth not onys out a dore therfore but saye what he lyste and tell vs that he feleth it trewe and fyndeth it wryten wythin hys own harte by hym that can not wryte false the spyryte of god hym selfe And there he weneth hym selfe surer then yf he wente twyse to Hierusalem and twyse as farre beyonde For yet myghte he for all that fortune to fynde some man that hadde the same waye walked as farre as he and there founden Tyndalys tale false But when he sayeth that he feleth it wryten wythin hys owne harte he weneth hym selfe very sure For he thynketh veryly ther canne no man loke in there to controlle hym and se whyther he lye or not But yet as wyly as that inuencyon was Tyndale ys therin begyled and god hath gone beyonde hym made hys wyly foly founden out more playnely then of late appered and came to controllement the selfe same wyly foly in Rycharde webbe Thys webbe whyle I was chauncelloure to the kynges hyghnesse was by dyuers heretykes detectyd vnto me that he had solde and vsed contynually to sell many of these heretykes bookes forboden by the kynges gracyouse proclamacyon to be brought in to the realme and ferther I was by good and honeste men enfourmed that in Brystowe where he then dwelled there were of those pestylent bookes some throwen in the strete lefte at mennys dores by nyght that where they durste not offer theyr poysen to sell they wolde of theyr cheryte poysen men for nought Now beynge thus enformed of hym and hauynge very sure knowlege that he was a greate medeler in suche vngracyouse maters and vtteryng of suche poysoned bokes of whyche I hadde a doser delyuered into my handes by Michael Lobley whom I hadde attached for lyke maters and whyche hadde receyued the same docer and bookes of webbe and afterwarde abiured hys heresyes I gaue out a commyssyon to certayne good wurshypfull folke at Brystowe to attache Rycharde webbe wheruppon after suertyes there fouÌ„den to appere byfore me he went at large and commynge vppe to London the daye before he came at me gate hym to saynte Catheryns to Robert Necton to whom he had vttered of hys bokes before and fell in a secrete agrement wyth hym what eche of them sholde saye therin when they were examyned therof And whan webbe thought he made the mater saufe and sure there then came he boldely to me But now was he shrewdely bygyled for yet ere he came at me Necton ferynge that webbe myghte happe to tell the treuth thoughte he wolde hym self be before hym and sent me worde in greate haste of webbys beynge wyth hymâ— and of all the communycacyon that hadde ben bytwene theym to And so webbe vnware therof beynge examyned on the morow fyrst of dyuers other thynges answeredâ— on his othe many a false answere as I very well perceyued sauynge the salue of hys remembraunce For euer for the more parte he referred and restraynyd all to hys remembraunce And when he had all done saw that I found no fawte nor nothynge obiected agaynst his answers but so vsed my selfe as though I byleued them then he beganne to loke pytuously vpon me and sayd that he had euer herd that who so were in hys examynacyon trew playne vnto me had ben alwaye wont to fynde me good and fauorable and sayd that for that cause he had hym selfe shewed me all that euer was in hys stomake as playnely as he knewe it hym selfe vpon hys fayth to hys remembrauÌ„ce wherupon I shewed hym that yf I founde hym trew he sholde fynde me fauourable but I fered that his answerys were not all trew Syr quod he yf ye fynde any one false neuer be good lord vnto me nor neuer trust me after whyle ye lyue Then for a say I thought of hys so many lyes to assay hym with some one And than I asked hym agayne of one syr Nycholas to whom he had answered me before that he neuer sold any suche bookes but that the preste hadde he sayde offred hym suche bookes to sell but he wolde none bye and that he hadde not seene the preste thys halfe yere and the laste tyme he sawe hym was at Brystow And whenne he sâ—yll abode therby vppon hys othe that thys was trewe and ellys wolde I sholde neuer byleue hym in any thynge nor shew hym any fauour theÌ„ I asked hym whyther Brystow were in Holborne whyther syx wekes were halfe a yere And when he perceyued by those questyons that I knewe of a certayn asseÌ„ble of theyrs in Holborne within .vi. wekes before then he caste downe the hed and sayd he hadde forgote it And whan I layed vnto hym hys periury he sayd he sware for no ferther then he remembred But when he coulde not make me byleue that he hadde forgote it then downe he fell vppon hys marydonys pytuously prayed me to â—ogyue hym that one lye in whych the deuyll he sayd ought hym a shame For in good fayth syr there is not in all myn answers any one thynge vntrewe but that well webbe quod I in fayth yf that be trew then wyll I wynke at thys one and lette it go for none But nowe yf there be any mo lyes call them agayne bytyme and I wyll thenne take your fyrste tale for vntolde Naye syr quod he and ye fynde any one more then neuer byleue me whyle ye lyue but take all for lyes that euer I tell you and put me to opeÌ„ shame and make me a sample to all the false periured knauys in the realme well sayed I by lykly hed the remanauÌ„t be well tryed trewthes ye wolde not ellys webbe make so large an offer No in fayth syr sayeth he but yf I were sure that all were treue I wolde not be so madde to saye as I do and forsake your fauour so folyshly well quod I when saw ye Robert Necton then Nowe by my soule syr as I haue shewed your lordshyppe vppon myne othe I sawe hym not thys halfe yere to my remembraunce well quod I remember your selfe well ye know perde where he dwelleth and he where you dwell and therfore remember whyther ye were wyth hym at saynt Catheryns or he wyth you at Brystow or that ye met by chaunce to gyther any where ellys wythin these thre or foure monethes Then he began to study a lytell and clawe hys hed and rubbe hys forhed and sayed Nay in fayth to my remembrauÌ„ce we mette not to gyther thys halfe yere and by my trouth I can not now call to mynde well where we met then neyther well webbe quod I let that passe then and tell me another thyng was yesterdaye halfe yere
now wyll he not fayle of lykelyhed to proue vs playnely some people some where so pure and so clene wythout spotte or wryncle of synne that saynt Peter can fynde no fawte in them Lo thus good reders he proueth it Barons To thys I answere that thys holy chyrche hath synne in her and yet is she pure and clene Marke saynt Poulys wordes Chryste hath gyuen hym selfe for her that he myghte make her gloryouse so that the clennesâ—e of this holy chyrch is the mercy of good towarde hyr thorow Chryste for whose sake he layeth nothynge to her charge ye and yf any other person wolde he is reddy to gyue hâ—r hys clennes and to let her by fayth clayme of ryghte hys puernesse for hyr owne For byâ—wene them all is commen as bytwene man and wyfe So that yf the chyrche loke on her owne merytes and of hyr own workes she is full of synne and must nedes say dimitte mihi debita The whiche she nedyd not to saye yf she had none But yf she referre hyr selfe vnto the merytes of her blessed husbonde Chryste Iesus and to the clennes that she haâ—h in his bloude than is she wythout spotâ—e For by the reason that she stycketh â—y fayth so faste vnto hyr husbande Chryste and doth abyde in confessyon of hyr synne and requyreth mercy foâ— theym therfore is there no thynge layed to hyr charge but all thynge is forgyuen hyr And therfore sayth saynt Poule there is no damâ—nacyon vnto them that be in Chryste Iesu. And that thys maye be the playneâ— I wyll brynge you saynt Austayns wordes the whyche was vexed of the Donatystes with thys same reason that is layde agaynste me Hys wordes be these The hole chyrche sayth for geue vs our synnes wherfore she hath spottes and wrincles But by knowledging of theym her wryncles be extended and stretched oute by knowledgynge her spottes are washed away The chyrch abydeth in prayour that she myght be clensed by knowledgynge of her synnes As longe as we leue her so standeth yt and when we shall departe oute of this bodye all suche thynges be forgeuen to euery man wherfore by this meane the chyrche of god is in the treasours of god wythout spot and wryncles And therfore here do we not lyue wythout synne but we shall passe from hens wythout synne c. Here haue you clerely that the chyrch of god is clensed and puryfyed by Crist for knowledging of her synnes and not by her owne purenes Wherfore suche a chyrche there muste nedes be though that the carnall yie can not se her nor fleshely reason can iudge of her Wherfâ—re we beleue this artycle by fayth that holy chyrche is a communyon or felyshyppe of holy men and know yt not by seyeng or felynge as we do the fellyshyppe of drapers or mercers for then were yt none artycle of the fayth And yt is playâ—â— that all your exteryour sygnes wyth all your holy ornamentes as your hâ—â—y myters your holy crosse staues your holy pyâ—leas and pollaxes your holy red gloues your holy ouches and your holy ringes your holy anointed fingers your holy vestimentes your holy chalices and your holy goldeÌ„ shewes ye take aâ—so to heâ—pe you saynte Thomas of Canterberis holy showe with all the holy bâ—tyâ—â—â— hâ—â—y munkes and all these to gether can not make one crumme of holynes in you nor helpe you one prycke forward that you may be within this chyrche For yf 〈◊〉 thynges could helpe then were yt no mystery to make an asse to be of the chirch of god But our holy mother the chyrche hath a nother holynes that commeth from god the fader thorow the sweat blood of his blessed son Iesu Cryste in whom is all her confydens and truste Vnto whom she stycketh only by steâ—faste fayth by whose purenes she is also pure in that that she doth confesse her vncâ—enes for she byleueth stedfastly that she hath an aduocate for her syn to the father of heuen whyche is Cryste Iesus And he is the satysfaccyon for her synnes And he of his mercy and not of her merytes hath choâ—sen her for to be his And bycause she is hys therfore must she be clene so longe as she abydeth in hym Thys is wyll declared in saynte IohnÌ„ where our mayster Cryste is compared to the vyne and all the members of holy chyrche to the branches that as the branches can brynge forth not frute of them selfe so can holy chyrche of her selfe brynge forth no goodnes excepte she remayne in Cryste by perfyte fayth Thys is well proued by your owne law whose wordes be these therfore ys the chyrche holy bycause she byleueth ryght wisely in god c. Here you not the cause wherfore the chyrche is holy bycause she beleueth ryht wysely in god that is she byleueth in nothynge but in hym and she byleueth nor hereth no worde but his as our mayster Criste bereth wytnes my shepe heare my voyce and another maÌ„nys voyce do they not knowe also in a nother place he that is of god hereth the wordes of god how commeth thys that the chyrche of god hath so sure a iudgement that she knoweth the voyce of Cryste from other voyces and can not erre in her iudgement Bycause that Cryste hath chosen her and bycause she is serâ—â—ed of god as â—ur mayster Cryste sayth and by câ—use she hath as saynt IohnÌ„ sayth the inwarde oyntement of god that teacheth his all maner of veryte so that she caÌ„ not erre But why can she not erre because she may do what she will Bycause that all thyng that she doth is well done bycause she may maâ—e nâ—we ruâ—es and new lawes at her pleasure Bycause she may inâ—ent a newe seruyce oâ— god that is not in scrypture at her wyll Nay nay my lordes For she is but a woman and muste be ruled by her husbande ye she is but a shâ—pe and mâ—sâ—e heare the voyce of her shepeâ—erd And so longe as she doth so longe can she not erre bycause the voyce of her shepeherd can not be false This may be proued by your owne lawe â—hâ—se wordes be these the whole chyrcâ—e can not erre Also in a nother place the câ—ngregacyon of faythfull men muste nedes be whyche also can not erre c. These wordes be playne what chyrche yt is that can not erre that is the congregacyon of faythfull men that be gadered in Cristes name which haue Cristis spryt whyche haue the holy oyntement of god whyâ—he abyde â—este by Crystes worde and heare noâ—e other mannyâ— voyce but hys More Here haue I good reders rehersed you the full declaracyon of his purpose to gether whych as yt were well done that no man sholde vouchsaufe to rede ouer ones so were yt good that who so wolde nedes rede yt ones sholde indyfferently wythout parcyalyte rede yt and aduyse yt often For in good fayth I doute yt not but he that so wolde had he no lernynge at all and were wytted but
secte me thoughte they were in so good a waye How be it synne I se now that you father Barns that were onys a doctour can saye no better for it by our lady I bygyn so to mystrust all the mater that saue for sellynge of myn ale and vtterynge of my chafer to gete a peny by them I rought nere though thete came neuer none of theym any more wythin my dore Now wolde wyth this the tother good honest wyfe of lykelyhed haue resorted agayne vnto her ensample of her very mother and of these false wyches of whyche euery one wolde be taken for her mother to grow fyrste in truste wyth her and then after poysen her And then wolde she coÌ„clude yf yt be father Barons suche an vnknowen thynge whych chyrche is my mother holy chyrche and then one there is with whome I was cristened and hytherto brought vp and though I se many thynges in her whâ—ch I wold wysh were amended yet for all y t she counsayleth me to be good and she telleth what I muste do yf I wyll be good How be yt therin of trouthe all you other chyrches vary wyth her and tell me she teacheth me wronge But then so do you also eche of you wyth other and eche of you telleth me that other teacheth wronge And she telleth me the scripture proueth for her parte and eche of you sayth that the scrypture pâ—oueth for your owne part and that she lyeth and eche of you sayth also that other lyeth and she sayth that ye lye euerychone And whyche of you delare the scrypture truely which vntruely passeth my capacyte to perceyue But then I se that the scrypture whyche eche of you wold seme to coÌ„stre truely yet eche contrary to other you do not so mych as know whyche yt is but by the meane of her And I se also that all you were ones wyth her and be fallen at varyaunce wyth her and so be comen from her for angre And I se that though she be not so good as I wold she were yet for angre and enuy synnes ye be come from her ye myâ—se reporte her in many thynges wold make her appere myche worse And I se also that suche vyces as are well kowen for vyce whyche ye fynde and rebuke in her be â—yfe well knowen in you selfes And I se also that many suche holy men haue ben brought vppe wyth her as your self confesse for sayntes and amonge all your chyrches I neuer herde of any one And I se also y e some thyng ye teche amoÌ„g you all most euery one such as all those holy saintes abhorted had in abominacyon as for ensample the weddyng of freres nuÌ„nes And I se also y t in our chyrch as bad as we be yet god contynueth his myracles and amonge all your chyrches that be gone from oures he worketh neuer one And I se also that eche of your chyrches wold fayne seme to be the trewe chyrches for eche of youres affermeth that onely it selfe hath the trouth and the trew chyrch is yt whiche onely chyrche hath the trouthe And then agayne eche of you seeth his owne parte so feble and so farre vnable to be defended in that poynt that syth no one chyrch of all yours may be matche to our chyrche out of which ye all came and then that eche chyrche of yours or all your chyrches to geder beynge eche to other so contraryouse and repugnaunt shold be the trew chirch were ye wote well your selfe a thynge more then impossyble ye be fayne for thys cause to sende vs to an vnknowen chyrche By whych sendynge whyle ye wolde wythdrawe me from ours yet ye coÌ„fesse the contrary of all that ye go about For ye wold seme eche of you to haue the very trouth and then were you the trew chyrthe and the sure teachers But nowe syth ye saye the trew chyrche is vnknowen and eche of your chyrches is knowen it appereth by your own tale y t none of all your chyrches is the trew chyrch And yf it be not the trew chyrch then hath yt not the trew doctryne whych yt preteÌ„deth but is one of y e false chyrches hath y e false doctryne And therfore yf yt so were in dede that our chyrch were not the trew chyrche nor were not my ryghte mother in dede but that the very chyrche and my very mother were onely some one suche as ye wolde sende me to seke that is to say some vnknowen chyrche yet father Barons by your owne tale yt were none of all your chyrches And therfore I were but a fole to leue the knowen catholyque chyrche whom I haue hytherto taken for my very mother and come from her to yours whych as your selfe coÌ„fesseth is not the trew chyrch and therfore not my very mother but that my very mother were one whome ye neyther tell me where I may fynd her sauynge that ye byd me go seke her and ye say she is some where abrode in the wylde worlde whych world is a place to wyde ye wote well for a woman to ouer walke well and at that worde wolde hympe halt his hostes hoppe forth agayne and say mary syr that yt were in dede for me and also yf I wolde wander all aboute to loke her yet yf I happed to come in her company ye tell me no sure marke wherby I might well know her but onely that I shold perceyue her to be there but I sholde not yet wyt whyche were she and then were she for me almoste as good by thense And therfore father Barons in good fayth tyll ye can tell me a wyser tale of my new mother I myght thynke my selfe a â—ole yf for suche a tale as you tell I wold leue of myne old And thus are we now good reders wyth these onely woman vsynge no reason but suche as a woman myght fynd and yet suche as no man maye soyle comen to a poynte of frere Barns vnperfayt tokens by whych we may so knowe his chyrche as we be neuer the nerer for the knowledge of yt for any knowledge that he geueth vs of yt But nowe yf he haue not proued vs his chyrche at all then is he ye wote well myche ferther of from makynge vs haue any knowledge of her For he muste make vs fyrste know that suche one there is byfore he make vs know in what company some of her partes be Now wote ye well that the chyrche whyche he toke vppon hym to proue muste be a chyrche so clene and so pure wythout spotte or wryncle that saynt Peter may fynde no faute in her Nowe where as he goth aboute to proue yt by two meanes one by the scrypture and a nother by the doctours of the chyrche I haue all redy proued you that all the places of scripture that he hath brought in for that purpose he hath in suche wyse handeled that whyle he lyueth he may be a shamed therof For they not onely proue
he hath so shamfully loste his own chyrch of onely good holy people vnknowen clene and pure wyth out spot or wryncle yet that the very chyrche muste nedes be an vnknowen chyrche of onely good holy men at the leste though somwhat wryncled and not all vtterly spottelesse and that it can in no wyse be any knowen chyrch this wyll frere Barns as he weneth well substancially proue so that though he proue not his owne that he promyseth yet wyll he proue that yt can not be oures but some other that neyther he nor we be ware of And therfore he sayth Barns Suche a chyrch muste there nedes be though that the carnall yie can not se her nor the fleshely reason can iudge of her Wherfore we byleue this artycle by fayth that holy chyrche is a communyon or felyshyppe of holy men And we knowe yt not by seynge or felynge as we do the felyshyppe of drapers or mercers for then were yt none artycle of the fayth More Nowe let vs argue lyke A false Iew myght haue sayd in Crystes dayes whyle he preached in Hierusalem To byleue Cryste must be a artycle of the fayth ergo Cryste must be a person vnknowen and not be perceyued by the carnall yie but onely byleued by fayth and not by seyng or felyng as men know a draper or a mercer Thus myghte in those dayes a false Iew haue argued that Cryste hadde not ben very Cryste bycause he was a knowen person And this argument in a maner made the false Iewes in dede when they sayde we knowe this man whense he is but when Cryste cometh no man shall know whense he is But as yt myght haue be answered them that as Criste was both by fayth byleued and yet was also by syght and felyng knowē as well as was in such wyse knowē any draper or mercer eyther for the false Iewes knew hym by the tone meane onely his trew discyples knew hym by both and saynt Thomas of Inde after he hadde both sene hym and felt hym dyd by syght and felynge know his manhed and therewyth by fayth byleued his godhed euen so we know the chyrche by syghte herynge and felynge as we know drapers mercers And we byleue the spyryt of god abydynge therwyth and ledynge yt into all trouthe and Cryste the chyefe hedde therof assystyng yt and preseruyng yt from faylynge agaynste all the gates of hell And we byleue that yt is but one chyrche by professyon of baptysme holyly dedecated vnto god and seuered and openly knowē from all the manyfold open sectes of heretyques as the comen crede sayth that is dayly songē at the masse we byleue one holy apostolyke chyrche whyche worde apostolyque wherfore yt was putte in frere Barons wyll hym selfe as yt semeth not lette to confesse though Tyndale wyll not agree yt And we byleue that the communyon and felyshyp of all suche folke so halowed and dedycated vnto god where so euer they be in the worlde agreynge to gether in the knowē catholyque bylyefe is the bothe knowen and beleued holy catholyque chyrche of Cryste Also we byleue the communyon of sayntes in a nother maner besydes that that is to wyt we byleue that such as lyue here in this chyrche and in this chyrch also dye in the catholyque fayth and in the state of grace shall after thys lyfe haue the communyon and felyshyp of the sayntes that are byfore departed into heuen and that lyued some tyme in this same knowen catholyque chyrche and dyed in the same knowen catholyque fayth Now yf frere Barons aske me how I proue that these wordes of the crede sanctam ecclesiam catholicam be vnderstanden of the knowen catholyque chyrche I wyll proue yt by the wordes of saynt Austayne hym selfe bycause frere Barons beynge professed frere of saint Austaynes order wold seme to sette mych by hym Lo these be therfore the wordes of saynte Austayne ye must knowe that we ought to byleue the chyrch and not byleue in the chyrche for the chyrche is not god but the house of god The catholyque chyrch he calleth the chyrch that is spred abrode thorowe out the hole worlde For the chyrches of heretyques whych be dyuerse are not called catholyke or vnyuersall chyrches For they be conteyned euery secte in some proper place in his owne prouynce But this catholyque chyrche is spred abrode wyth the shynyng lyght of one fayth from the rysyuge vppe of the sonne to the goyng downe There is no greater rychesse no greater treasures no greater honours nor no greater substaūce of thys world than is the catholyke fayth whych saueth synfull men and gyueth to the blynde theyr syght agayne and healeth the syke whych also chrysteneth those that are new come to chrysten relygyon and iustyfyeth the faythfull repayreth penitentes increaceth the ryghteouse folke crowneth martyrs giueth orders to y e clergy cōsecrateth prestes prepareth vs to the kyngdome of heuyn maketh vs felowes coparteners with the holy angels in the euerlastynge inherytaunce who so euer he be what maner of man so euer he be he is no chrysten man y t is not in the chyrche of Cryst For truely she is that onely chyrch of whyche our lord gladly receyueth sacryfyce and which onely maye wythout any dystrust to be herd make intercessyō for those that are wandered out of the way For whyche cause also our lorde cōmaunded of the sacryfyce of the pascall lambe sayeng ye shall eate it in one house onely and ye shall beare no part of that flesshe forth a dores The lambe is eaten in in one house bycause the very trew hoost of our redemar is offred vp in the one catholyke chyrch onely Of whose flesh god cōmaunded forbade that no part shold be borne out of y e dores For he forbydeth vs to gyue any holy thyng to dogges In thys chyrch onely is a good worke frutefully done therfore none receyued the reward of the peny but they onely y t labored within the vyne yerde It is she onely that kepeth them with a strong bonde of cheryte that kepe them selfe within her And for thys cause truely the water of Noyes flode caryed the arke vp to y e hyghar places but she destroyed as many as she foūd wythout the arke She is onely that chyrch in whych we maye veryly byholde the heuenly mysteryes And therfore sayth our lord to Moyses I haue a place thou shalt stand vpon a rocke And soone after I shall take away my hand then thou shalt se me on the backe halfe For bycause the trewth is perceyued sene onely out of the catholyke chyrch therfore sayth our lorde that he hath a place from which he may be sene Moyses is set vpō a rocke to byholde goddes fygure For except a mā holde kepe the sure faste grounde of the fayth he can not dyscerne and knowe the dyuyne presence Dysseuer sayth saynt Cypryan the
Rome alone And therfore that glose can nothyng serue frere Barons but yt vtterly destroyeth frere Barons false glosyng of saynte Austaynes wordes openeth well vnto vs what thynge saynte Austayne ment in this worde all faythfull men For surely neyther saynte Austayne nor that glose ment by these wordes omniuÌ„ fidelium men clene and pure wythout any spotte or wryncles no more then doth euery man that prayeth pro omnibus fidelibus that god maye make theym all good men or pro animabus omniuÌ„ fideliuÌ„ defunctorum that yt may please god to bryng them to heuen all such as are in the paynfull way thether warde men do not meane in the prayours onely such faytfull folke as neyther haue spotte nor wryncle of synne Now where that the glose sayth there muste nedes be suche a chyrch so say I to For I say playnly that y e chyrch muste nedes be For all the deuylles in hell nor all theyr instrumentes vpon erth shall neuer be able to destroy yt but pull they neuer so many from yt leue they the remanauÌ„t neuer so few yet shall the remanaunt alway be the chyrch and a well knowen chyrche to byelded vppon that hygh mountayne that is to wyt vppon Cryst that yt shall alway be syghtely can not be hydde For as our sauyour sayth The cytye that is set vppon a mountayne can not be hyd meanynge that his chyrche shold be well sene and his trew fayth well knowen and not that his chyrche in whych hys fayth sholde contynue and in whyche of whyche yt shold be lerned sholde be suche an vnknowen thynge as they that wolde lerne coulde neyther wote where to fynde yt nor of whome to aske for yt nor so myche as know yt yf yt fortuned them to fall vppon yt by happe as frere Barons wolde here brynge yt to Also the tother glose that Barons bryngeth forth De pene dis 2. Si that sayth The whole chyrche can not erre what maketh that glose for Barons He speketh agaynste Barons For Barons sayth that his owne chyrche whyche hym selfe assygneth though she can not erre whyle she cleueth to her spouse yet she may leue hym and fall from him and then erre And so this glose that Barns bryngeth saith clere agaynst hym how be yt no more then he semeth to do hym selfe For yf yt be trew that he sayth of his chyrch that she may fall from god and not heare her husband and then therby erre then is yt false that he sayth in a nother place that there muste nedes be suche a chyrche as can not erre whyche thynge he wolde proue by this glose of the lawe that saith The whole chyrch can not erre And yet ye se wel that this glose takyng yt after the beste fashyon for it saith not as Barons sayeth that the very chyrche is no mo but that very secrete sorte of faythfull folke that be wythout any errour and y â— be pure clene wythoute spot or wryncle but he sayth that the whole chyrch that is to wit the knoweÌ„ catholyque chyrche can not all erre but that though that god wold suffer some partis or meÌ„bers of his chyrch to erre yet he will not suffer the whole corps or body of hys chyrch to erre This maketh playne agaynste Barons that bryngeth it forth For it affermeth that the trewth alwaye remayneth in the knowen catholyke chyrche for of y e knoweÌ„ chyrche he speketh there I can not therfore meruayle inough of Barns in bryngyng forth these gloses for him that make so clere agaynst hym and than to se him so boldely say therupon These wordes be playne what chyrche it is that can not erre As though these gloses had sayd as he sayth y t the chyrch which caÌ„ not erre is onely the vnknoweÌ„ chyrch of folke pure clene without any spot or wryncle of which thynges neyther nother glose speketh one worde And yet where Barns sayth These wordes of these gloses be playne as playne as he maketh them of them selfe yet hath hym selfe made a playne chauÌ„ge of one worde in the tone of them to make it seme the more playne for hym For where he reherseth the glose by these wordes The hole chyrch can not erre this worde erre is not there but the very wordes be The whole chyrche can not fayle Than be not ye wote well those wordes erre fayle precysely playnely both one neyther in wrytyng nor in voyce nor yet in sygnyfycacyon no more than the two laten wordes errat and deficit For a man may fayle yet not erre As he that doth auowtry woteth wel he doth nought he fayleth and falleth from god yet erreth he not in fayth A man maye also erre yet not fayle nor fall awaye fro god syth euery errour is not dampnable As a man myght erre and not fayle nor fall fro god therby nor be dampned therfore as Iacob dyd in wenyng that Lya had bene Rachell or as hys father Isaac dyd in wenynge that Iacob had ben Esau. But I say not thys for that I care mych for his chauÌ„ge But I mene that I wolde not haue hym come forth and make such great bostes of the playnesse of the wordes whaÌ„ he hath hym selfe made a chaunge in them to make theym seme the more playne for hym and whan the wordes for all hys playne chaunge make yet so playne agaynste hym But veryly me thynketh that in one thynge he vseth no good honeste fashyon in that he sayth fyrste Thys maye be proued by our owne lawe whose wordes be these the whole chyrche can not erâ—e Also in an other place The congregacyon of faythfull folke muste nedes be which also can not erre All they that rede these wordes of Barns in englysshe he maketh thâ—â—m wene that the wordes whyche he reherseth for hys purpose were the wordes of the very lawe it selfe but then are they in dede no wordes of the laweâ— but of certayne gloses that other men haue made vppon the law And thys hym selfe confesseth in the mergent of hys boke But that he doth in laten lettynge them that vnderstande no laten wene styll that â—t were the very lawes why doth he boste that he wyll prâ—ue it by the very lawes than in stede of the lawes brynge vs forth but gloses Hys quotacyoÌ„ is in the mergyn in thys maner De pene dis 2. Si in glossa For these wordes The whole chyrche can not erre And than for the tother wordes that is The congregacyon of faythfull men must nedes be whych also can not erre his quotacyoÌ„ is in the mergent thus .24 que 1. A recta et in glossa So that he wold we sholl wene that at the leste wyse those wordes were bothe in the texte and in the glose But now who so loke vpon these two lawys shall soone se that the cause why he dyd not was bycause he durste not For the law .24 que 1. A recta speketh clere
agaynste hym For that law sayth no thynge ellys but that the very trew fayth wythout errour hath bene euer preserued in the see apostolyke and as the lawe calleth it there the mother of all chyrches the chyrche of Rome And therfore thys lawe ye se wel was not for hys purpose to brynge in but in stede of the law he layeth vs forth a pache of the glose Now the tother law de pene dis 2. Si that law durst he not brynge forth for fere of angeryng hys euangelycall brother Tyndale For that lawe is the wordes of holy saynte Hierom wherin he confuteth at great length those heretykes that than helde the selfe same heresyes that Tyndale holdeth now that they which be onys borne of god can neuer after synne And the tother that he which after his baptysme doth onys any dedely synne shall neuer gete forgyuenes after These two deuelysshe heresyes which Tyndale hath now begon agayn in hys false exposycyon of the fyrst pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ which false exposycyon of hys I haue before coÌ„futed in my fourth boke holy saynt Hierom doth at good length openly confute in the wordes whiche are there by Graciane incorporate in the decrees whiche wordes yf my selfe hadde remembred in tyme I wolde haue broughte theym in in the stede of myne owne and wolde peraduenture haue lefte myne owne out for theym For there sayeth saynte Hierome the selfe same thynges agaynst those other heretykes of old y t I say there agaynst thys new and as he better coulde sayth them farre better thaÌ„ euer I shal be able as I wold make you sone perceyue yf I coulde in translatynge hys wordes into our englyshe tong gyue it the quyknesse and strength that he gyueth it in the laten But as I sayd thys lawe durste not frere Barns bryng in for fere of Tyndale whyche wolde for hurtynge of hys heresyes haue founden hym braulynge inough for all hys lyfe after But Barns wyll I warraunt you gyue hym no suche occasyon of dyspleasure Now yf Barons answere me that he hadde no cause to bryng in any of both those lawes syth they made no thyng for hys purpose but the gloses onely I shall tell hym agayne that than he sholde not haue sayed it that he wolde proue hys purpose by the lawes but by the gloses onely And I say also that than he shold haue lefte out the gloses to For as the lawes proue not hys purpose no more do the gloses neyther as I haue clerely declared you And yet whan he hath handeled hym self so falsely and yet so folyshly therwyth in the alledgynge of these lawes that yf he hadde any sparke of shame lefte in hys body he myghte not well loke any man in the face for fere that these hys false folyes were espyed it is now a worlde to se wyth what a corage and boldenesse he bosteth and reioyceth and what a ioye he maketh as he were euyn made a kynge by the fyndynge of a bene in a chrystmas cake For now he calleth hys lordes about hym and sayth Now my lordes gather you all to gyther wyth all the lawes that ye can make and all the holynesse that you can deuyse and crye the chyrche the chyrche and the counseâ—s the counsels that were lawfully gathered in the power of the holy goste all thys may you saye and yet lye And yf you haue not in dede the holy goste within you and yf you do heare any other voyce than Chrystes than are you not of the chyrche but of the deuyll and theuys and murtherers as Chryste sayth For you come afore hym that is you come into the foulde of Chryst wythout hym you brynge not his voyce but you come with your owne voyce with youre owne statutes wyth your owne worde and with your owne â—andamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excoÌ„municamus These be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Chryste Therfore you can not but erre For you be not taught of god you haue not the holy oyntemente you haue not the worde of god for you you here not the voyce of the trewe sheaperd Therfore must you nedes erre in all your counselles what grounde or colour of grounde hath he to reigne so lordely and rayle so ryally vppon all the lawes May he so boldely sette them all at nought bycause hym selfe hath so falsely bylyed twayne and so folyshely handeled theyr gloses No Sowdan in a stage play may make mo braggyng bostys nor ronne out in mo frantike ragys than may frere fraÌ„tyke Barns yf he take thys for reason For here speking of lawes and layeng but the gloses and the lawes agaynst hym and hys gloses nothynge for hym yet as though all the worlde were hys he falleth forth in a rage agaynste all lawys and all generall counsayles and sayth They haue not the voyce of god with them but they muste nedes erre in all theyr counsayles by cause they say mandamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excommunicamus For he sayth that these wordes be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Cryste Thys felow cometh forth wyth a prowde face vpon all the worlde whan he wolde by his pryncely authoryte more than an imperyall maiestye proclayme all men for murderers and theuys that dare be so bolde as to vse any of these wordes mandamus precipimus or excoÌ„municamus These wordes I se not sent out by murtherers nor theuys but by prynces and rulers agaynst murderers and theuys and agaynst all other vycyouse and mysse ruled persons and amonge other agaynste vngraciouse heretykes which is all thys mannys gryefe And that these wordes of coÌ„maundynge haue bene vsed by folke somwhat better then theuys and murderers may appere by the scrypture it selfe For the holy euâ—ngelyste saynt Marke sayeth of our sauyour thus He commaunded hys apostles that they sholl cary no thynge wyth them as they went by the waye And saynt Poule wryteth vnto the Thessalonyes in thys wyse O my bretherne I truste in god of yow that ye kepe and wyll kepe all thynges that I haue commaunded you And agayne to Timothe thus he sayth I commaunde the before god c. And thus frere Barns maye se that the wordes of commaundynge be not alwaye the voyce of murderers and theuys But all the greate gryefe of thys mater is in excommunicamus For that worde wolde frere Barns haue daÌ„pned But yet muste he consyder that saynt Poule hym selfe vsed eyther that same worde or some other in the language that he spake when he dyd excommunycate and accurse Hymineus and AlexaÌ„der and bytoke them to the deuyll to teche them to leue theyr blasphemy suche as these heretyques vse now and yet peraduenture lesse for greater yt coulde not be Saynte Poule also commaunded the Corynthies that they shold excoÌ„municate and accurse oute of theyr coÌ„pany that incestuouse lecherour that had abused his own faders wyfe For thus he sayth in the fyrst pystle to the Corynthies Trewly I