AN ANSVVER To Vindicate the Cause of the Nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying Pamphlet otherwise called A Discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T. L. or as I understand the signification of the Letters Tho Ledger By GEO BAITEMAN A Word to the Reader of this Booke IT is common among the sonns of men every one to vindicate his own cause whether he be in the right or wrong For Solomon saith Every man seems to be just in his own cause And the truth is every one will speake the best he can in his own behalfe But Christian friend whatever thou art that Readeth these ensuing Lines I would have thee to understand that I have not written these Lines in my own defence or to vindicate my selfe of any aspersions that any can cast upon me in any kinde whatsoever for though I am a man who have undergone and at this day doe undergoe the heavy burthen of false aspersions cast upon me by the fools of the times who neither know me nor themselves yet to me they are no more then the barking of curs the which may affright children for my backe is broade enough to beare all the weight of these burthens and am possessed with a Spirit that maketh me easily passe by all the censures of men and had the cause been my own which is included in these Lines I thinke they had never come to the beholding but my Spirit is such that it leadeth me out rather to justifie others then my selfe for I would have thee to know that my Sect or Profession Tenets or Religion call it what thou wilt is neither of that sort of People called Quakers neither am I Papist Prelacyan Presbyterian Independant Anabaptist Famelist Brownist Arryan Atheist Free-willer Free gracian Raunter Saduccy or Lihertine c. then make of me what thou pleaseth yet such a one I am as knoweth my right hand from my left and that is enough for any man to know and by that light in me I am made in some measure to see what is of God and what is of man and what is of the spirit of darkenesse I professe unto thee I am not the Enemy of any man neither doth any mans Forme or Religion trouble me but wish all men well in their way yet I must tell thee that I am not unacquainted with the wyles of Satan in Formes and out of Formes and likewise of Gods working both in Formes and out of Formes and what I have found by experience I wish that all men had found the same and aâ— hundred times more And I must tell thee I am led out to owne the truth of God where ever I see it in a Forme or out of a Forme but the purest truths is not manifested in Formes though Formes may have their time and in their time is tollerable if not Idolized And to give thee a true Reason why I was led out to draw these Lines it is to vindicate the truth in its appearing in some people in these dayes the which is disposed to the scandall and reproach of most people in these times some by wrong imprisonment some by beating some by threatning some by false accusations and scandalls some by Petitions and some by writing lying Pamphlets all of these arising from the very malice and instigation of the Devill who would have these poore people destroyed for he well knoweth that if these goe on his kingdome will fall Amongst those whom the devill moveth to act and speake against these people one T. L. or Tho Ledger hath written a lying Pamphlet the which I have here answered in some of his false accusations therein and if time would but have permitted I would have answered them more fully but what is here spoken I hope may serve to give thee satisfaction of the truth in these people and if thou have but any light of God in thee thou wilt see and mayest easily judge that these people are no other then such as God hath marvailously called to himselfe to make the riches of his goodnesse knowne in their soules and what ever either Formalists or other say against these people take thou heed thou be not as one of them for better were it for thee to have a Mill-stone hung about thy necke and throwne into the midst of the Sea then that thou shouldest offend one of these that beleeve in God in whom Christ liveth and they in him And for thy better information in the truth I haue drawne these Lines the which I freely commit to thy Christian consideration and the Lord give thee a good understanding that thou mayest learne to have a good opinion of any People in whom the truth of God doth appeare And my desire is that the God of Truth may make his Truth knowne to thee whereby thou mayst be made to know what evill is in thy selfe and the emptinesse of all things acted and created let thy Forme be what it will This is the worst I wish thee Geo Baiteman An Answer to vindicate the cause of the nicknamed Quakers c. THere is two great monsterous evils in the world and they are common among the sonns of men and from these two evills ariseth all other sinnes and wickednesse whatsoever acted spoken or thought either against God himselfe or against any appearance of God in his creature Man and by the venome which ariseth from these two evills one man is set against another in bitter envyings evill wishings evill speeches evill actings c. Now these two great evills is the very ground and originall Rice of all other evill as is before-said the one of these hath its proper being in one of the chiefe faculties of the soule viz. the Reason and by the operations from thence proceeding the sonnes of men becommeth much deprived of the pure understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus And the other great evill hath its proper being in another chiefe faculty of the soule viz. the Will from the operations of which evill ariseth all disobedience and rebellion against the Truth as it is in Jesus yet the difference between the sinns arising from these grounds is great though nothing that ariseth from either be good the evill effect proceeding from the ground or cause in the Reasonable part will be found inferiour to these which ariseth out of the Will Yet wise Solomon saith Without Knowledge the Soule is not good Prov. 19. 2. And God complaineth by the Prophet That his People perished for want of knowledge Hos. 4. 6. And Solomon who knew how wicked the sonns of men were without knowledge and how darke and blinde they were in the understanding the dictates of God without Knowledge how oft doth he counsell men to seek W. sedome and prize her above Gold But who is that wise man that can truely distinguish between the Wisedome of God and the light which is in Reason which may be much increased
have both this Author and all other of his order to understand what shall be said concerning Ordinances As for that which is an Ordinance of God we have commands for the observing of the same And one of his chiefe and greatest Ordinances is his Sonne Christ one with himselfe Acts 10. 42. and in as much at he would have us obedient to that Ordinance he hath given out his Command To love the Lord our God with all our heart c. and beleeve in his Sonne Jesus Christ whom he hath sent Now the fulfilling of these commands in being obedient to that Ordinance it is out of the compasse of the power of every man and therefore God in stouping to the weakenesse of men hath given out other inferiour Ordinances as Rules for men while they are in their weakenesse and those Ordinances are within the power of the creature man to be observed as Reading Hearing Praying Baptizing Breaking of Bread c. Yet in these inferiour Ordinances I would have men to be so wise as to understand the ground and intent or the cause and effect of these Ordinances It will be found that sinne is the cause or ground of all Laws or Ordinances For the Law was added because of transgression Gal. 3. 19. And the Law is made for the ungodly 1. Tim. 1. 9. And Gods intent in giving out Laws and Ordinances is to be as a Line or Rule untill the effect be brought to passe viz. that a man be brought into that condition by walking by these Rules of the knowledge of himselfe and his owne weakenesse and the weakenesse of all those Laws and Ordinances that so the Soule may be made â—it to close with that which is the chiefe Ordinance of all and the soule once being truely brought to live under obedience of the chiefe Ordinance all those inferiour Ordinances is of little use For there is a time for every thing a time to Plant and a time to plucke up that which was Planted For the Law was added because of transgressions so is all Ordinances But the Law maketh nothing perfect Heb. 7. 29. no more doth the inferiour Ordinances But when the Promised Seed is come the Law hath no more jurisdiction over man and when that which is perfect is come then that which is imperfect is done away The Law and Ordinances are not perfect but imperfect and yet not imperfect but perfect But marke well what I say in defining my selfe for the Law or any of Gods Ordinances hath a perfection in them but their perfection tends to death by reason of the sinne that is in us and the greatest perfection that is in any Law or Ordinance is but to bring man to be perfectly made senceable of the sinne and selfenesse that is in him And when man is brought thus farre Laws and Ordinances is but of little use for further man cannot be brought by them and so their perfection is at an end and what soule soever findeth not this to be true in observing of Ordinances may take it for granted that he hath not been faithfull in walking close by the rule of the Ordinances or otherwise the Angell of darkenesse hath playd that soule a tricke of which it is little capable and so raiseth some certaine sweetnesse in the soule out of the walking in these Ordinances and the false fiend maketh the soule to beleeve that to be in comes of Christ when it is nothing else but a life raised out of that whose nature is alwayes to produce death and when the false fiend hath got power to worke this worke no marvaile if such soules cry up Ordinances so fast and cry downe any appearance of God in others who are let see and led out from such delusions but I let such passe with the saying of the Prophet Thou hast wearied thy selfe in the greatnesse of thy wayes yet saidest thou not there is no hope thou hast found the life of thine hands and therefore thou art not grieved Isay 57. 10. In every soule which is rightly carried on into that which is the chiefe good it will be truely made appeare that the perfection of Laws and Ordinances is fulfilled in bringing it into a perfect death and the imperfection of Laws and Ordinances will appeare in that they cannot restore the pure life to the soule but that proceedeth from another Fountaine viz. the chiefe Ordinance and when that which is chiefe and supreame is come that which is inferiour is out of date with that soule and so it is made to live in that which is chiefe above that which is inferiour for these inferiour Ordinances are but Childrens Tutors in their minority untill the time appointed of the Father though Children may sometimes for want of knowledge be led out to love their tutors better then their Father yea and thinke both their Fathers and all other enemies that would seeme to seperate them and their Tutors though it were to carry them to live in the bosome of theiâ— naturall Fathers but these are but the foolish thoughts of Children and the Apostle was such a one at sometime himselfe but when he grew up to be a man he put away childish things meaning whatsoever was inferiour to the living in that which was the chiefe Ordinance even the love of God in Christ or Christ made truely knowne to his soule and was the Apostle condemned for saying so or dare any judge or question his light that led him into that condition or who dare say that he was in an error when he counted all his religious walking by the rules as dung and drosse Phil. 3. or who dare say that he was guided by a false light when he counted Ordinances but as shaddowes and reproved the people for being subject to such things Col. 2. 20. But you may say That these was Ordinances Instituted in the time of the Law but now we live under Gospel-Ordinances and therfore none may live above them To which I say The Ordinances under the Law had their time and pointed out that which was the end viz. Christ appearing in the Flesh and there they ended and the Ordinances under the Gospel hath their time and their end also and that is when Christ appeareth in the spirits of men for he is the end of all Ordinances whatsoever to them who live in him and he in them But you may say That Beleevers in the Primitive time made use of Gospel-Ordinances whose Example it behooveth all men to follow To which I say it was meet they should doe so at sometime especially when they were in their minority in beleeving and so for all young Christians For as I said before there is a time for every thing but even in the Primitive time there was degrees of Christians some Children some young-men some old-men or Fathers and it was the wisedome of the Apostle to frame his discourse and behaviour to every ones condition and to feed Children with Childrens meate and to
ditches It would be too tedious and draw out too long a Volume to answer that Author in every perticular of his blind Discourse therefore I will passe by many things the which if time would have permitted I would have answered in order but what I have said already though in briefe will satisfie the wise and for the foolish there is too much said already for beate him in a morter and his folly will not depart from him But before I conclude I cannot chuse but take notice of somewhat more he sayes concerning these People called Quakers where he telling of comming to these People in the power and evidence of Gods Word and tels them of admiring Christ holy walking with God subjection to Ordinances Baptisme Kirkefellowship c. and they will tell you or as he saith that uncleane spirit in them will cry out and witnesse against you that you be but yet in the spirit of the world and under the power of carnall reason c. It s true they will do so to some people and wise men cannot but admire to see such a spirit of discerning in many of these people for an hypocrite can hardly beguile them though he may come with never so faire pretences to try them and let an hyhocrite arme himselfe as strongly with the Scripture and his worship of God in Ordinances as possibly he can and that light or eternall word in them will finde them out and discover these to the very bottome And I know for a truth that no hypocrite is able to stand before them and I beleeve an hypocrite that once hath had discourse with them dare not appeare before them the second time and indeed they may the easilier discerne an hypocrite when they themselves are delivered from that great evill the which no doubt but many of them had in them while they were in their pretended close walking with God and in their admirings of a Christ without them and hide-bound under a faire seeming Forme and the truth is while men live in such a condition they are not able to see how the Harlot is decked in them And this Author seemeth to take it for a strange and delusive saying That the people should say that they pray alwayes and that they have the Baptisme of Fire and that they eate the Flesh and Blood of Christ continually c. Indeed I doe not marvaile at the Author for thinking so for I beleeve he little knoweth or is acquainted with the mystery of these things for I doubt he is too busie about these things without him so that he is but little acquainted with the mystery of these things within him But at one thing I marvaile in the Author that he worshipping and idolizing the Scripture so much and yet should be unacquainted with what is written in it or otherwise why is it that the Scripture that he maketh no lesse then God should not reueale the truth of these sayings to him for if he doe but remember the Scripture it commands us to Pray alwayes but no command in it for set times and set Formes of Prayer And for the Baptisme with Fire it was the Promise of Christ and was fore-told by John Baptist Mat. 3. 11. And for eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ continually that soule that doth not so is in the captivity of death and hath no life in it and there is no abiding or living in the word of God or Christ but by eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood after that manner for he that eateth his Flesh and drinketh his Blood in this manner abideth in Christ and Christ in him John 6. 56. It is not the outward act of Baptisme or the Bread and Wine eating and drinking that makes a Christian or bringeth the soule to live in Christ and Christ in it no no these are typpicall things under this dispensation in which we live and they hold it out in the mystery the dying with Christ and the living with Christ For as in the time of the Law there was severall Ceremonies which poynted at the appearing of Christ in the Flesh so when he was in the Flesh he left types of another nature and these pointed at Christs appearing in spirit and as the types under the Law ended when Christ appeared in the Flesh so the types under the Gospel end when Christ appeareth in the spirit But none will beleeve the great Mystery herein but such as have found the same truely fulfilled in them and yet those who have attained this Mystery and speaketh thereof to the world or to the out side religious shall be accounted no lesse then Blasphemers because this crosseth their humane wisedome by which they understand God and his way and many of those people is able to make good the truth of this Mystery in them and witnesse the same by Scripture to yea and some of them will witnesse the same by signes and wonders to if they be put to it And yet this Author doth falsly accuse these people saying That they can give no Scripture account for what they hold out and doth falsly say That they deny Scripture when no people in the world doth answer the Scripture in its requiring more then they Other false accusations I omit because time will not give way to answer them for as he saith The mary absurd ridiculous practises of these Fantastickes as he calls them would be too much to relate so I say to answer all his false accusations would be too tedious But as he goes on in his discourse he lighteth on a great hole in their Coate as he thinketh viz. That they will not put off their Hats to any no not to a Magistrate and where doth this Author finde in Scripture any command for so doing but if he minde Scripture well he shall finde something to the contrary and that was a command of our Saviours who bad his Disciples That they should salute no man by the way Luke 10. 4. and for a Magistrate or other men in Authority what are they more then other men for if they would but well consider the originall root of Authority they shall finde that they have no just cause to look for more respect then other men for if sin had not bin brought out in the world one man had not ruled over another And the Scripture saith the Devill brought sinne into the world and sinne brought out Lawes and Lawes brought out Authority but as for Magistrates and men in Authority that are good men these looke but for little honour of men though there be an honour that is due to such but that honour consisteth not in putting off Hats to them for if it had the Scripture would have commanded such honour in some place of it Likewise that Author findeth other great defects amongst these people because they will not call men Rabbies and Sirs and because they speake and write men Thou and Thee I would know of the