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A88107 The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster. Ley, John, 1583-1662. 1645 (1645) Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462 96,520 124

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of power to let into the Church by the Sacrament of Baptisme as indeed it is and whom to admit to and whom to keep back from participation of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper it is a degree of power farre above both whom to ordaine to or whom to debarre from the order of Presbyters for 1. Whatsoever power or authoritie a Presbyter may claime by the word of God is virtually included in his Ordination 2. They that have power to ordaine a Presbyter have power upon just cause to silence and suspend the execution of that power and to stop his mouth Tit. 1.11 if it be opened to broach heresie or blasphemie or if his conversation be vitious and scandalous 3. The Covenant for the generall heads of it comprehendeth a perfect enumeration of the maine parts of the desired reformation under the titles of Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government but Ordination is not to be referred to Doctrine or Worship but to Discipline or Government for the ordaining of Governours and the exercise of Government properly appertaine to the same Topick or Classis 4. Though Government and Worship be distinguished betwixt themselves yet both agree in this that their generall grounds and rules are found in the word of God and in that respect the one may be set forth in the Civill Sanction with a relish of and reference to a religious constitution as well as the other But in case they will not be pleased to expresse any Divine right in any part of the Government in their Civill Sanction and will in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing which really and in it selfe is agreeable to the Word of God though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ as is noted before out of the learned Commissioner of Scotland his * Sect. 8. p. 25. Brotherly examination and he hath the like in his * p. 32. Nihil Respondes we must be satisfied * p. 22. SECT XX. An Appendix to the precedent examination being an Apologeticall Narrative of the Petitions of the Common Councell of the Citie and Ministers of London presented to both the Honourable Houses of Parliament the 19th and 20th dayes of Novem. 1645. with a Vindication of them and the proceedings in them from the scandalous aspersions of the weekely Pamphleters especially of him who miscals himself by the name of the Moderate Intelligencer BVt howsoever the hope of union hath gon on hitherto since the Petitions of the Common Councell and of the Ministers of the Citie were presented to the Parliament there is great likelyhood of a dangerous breach betwixt the Parliament and them which will not easily be cemented up to perfect accord So haply may some conceive who know no more of the matter then they are told by the Moderate Intelligencer or by his Plagiatie the writer of the continuation of especiall and remarkable Passages who repeats his lying and scandalous Relation word for word in these termes This day the Common Councell did present a Petition to the Commons House of Parliament by divers Aldermen and others of that Councell which seemed to complaine or take ill the proceedings of the Parliament with the Assembly in the late businesse past concerning the election of Elders c. The Commons sate long about the businesse and laid it much to heart that any such thing should come from the Citie and that they should lend an eare to any that should in so evill a way represent things unto them and of what dangerous consequence it was and gave them an answer to this effect That they did perceive that they had beene informed and that they could not but lay it much to heart that they who had ever beene so ready to doe all good offices for the Kingdome and goe with the Parliament should from any but the Parliament take a representation of their proceedings and intreated them that herealter they would take satisfaction from themselves It s true they did beleeve they meant well and had a good meaning and intention in it but they were abused They had no sooner given answer to this but there came another from the Clergy to the same effect which was more sad then the former for they conceived this latter was an appeale from the Houses to the people and of as dangerous a consequence as could be imagined and that it deserved a high censure and withall they resolved if that was the way intended they would goe on with their Declaration and quickly undeceive the people and in the interim they referred it to the Committee of examinations that the first contrivers and after fomenters of this businesse may be dealt with according to merit This is a parcell of their weekly report but principally his who miscals himselfe the Moderate Intelligencer for he is neither Intelligent writing what he understands not nor Moderate being passionately addicted to a partie to flatter either out of an erroneous sancie fondly set upon irregular novelties in opinion and practice or out of a covetous affection to the wages of iniquitie the reward of flatterie or slander as the bad cause whereto he hath engaged his Pen hath need to be served with the one or the other and in the latter he hath shewed himselfe this last weeke a very 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that 's the word in the Originall for a false accuser 2 Tim. 3.3 a false accuser of the brethren Revel 12.10 not of brethren in evill as Simeon and Levi Gen. 49.5 but in good in most sincere and zealous desires and endeavours to be serviceable to the Parliament in prosecution of the great Cause that is in hand the through reformation of Church and State Among whom there are many who taken single by themselves might in good manners have been entertained with termes which savour more of reverence then of contempt but this three-farthing News-monger takes upon him as if he had beene authorised by the Parliament to involve all the venerable Magistrates and prime men of power and trust in this Honourable Citie and a very great number of the most learned laborious and consciencious Ministers of the Province of London in an unfaithfull and undutifull association against the Parliament for their joynt petitioning to the Parliament And where lyeth the crime that may make them lyable to so loud a clamour was it for petitioning in generall or for their petitioning in particular If we consult with his scandalous paper we shall find that he layeth an heavie charge upon both First for the generall in the precedent page he ushereth it in with an egregious calumny in these words * p. 203 Now let us come home and looke about us and see if while our Army is labouring to subdue the enemy and end strife there is not new beginning by those that Fame saith have beene the causes of all the strife we did intreat them the last weeke they would let the Parliament alone and waite
and not doubt they would see a good issue and good content they need not feare they may be kept a while from their desires but in the end they will have content if their owne earnest pressing for it doe not hinder Now let us come home It would be well Sir if you would come home and keepe at home and take measure of your owne parts and sit close to your Trade and not ramble abroad to busie your selfe in writing Intelligence of matters which are farre above the elevation of your Pole or the comprehension of your head-piece But your zeale perhaps such a zeale as the Apostle taxeth which is without knowledge Rom. 10.2 just like a pressing-iron which hath heat without light stirred you up to complaine of some troublesome spirits who while the Army is labouring to end strife begin it anew and they are such say you as Fame saith have been the causes of all the strife and who be they Fame saith the late Deputie of Ireland and the little Drelate of Canterburie were prime causes of the Kingdomes and the Churches disturbance And are they since their heads were cut off as Herod thought of John Baptist Mark 6.16 raised from the dead to revive our divisions Common Fame saith the Queene and her Faction that have parted the King and the Parliament Digby Hopton Goring Greenvile and other Military male-contents have caused and doe still continue the most dangerous contentions and convulsions in England as Moutrosse and his party in Scotland Ormond and his barbarous and bloody Papists in Ireland But we must looke for these make bates at home and find out such as at present doe trouble our peace and if we doe so Fame saith that they are such among us as oppose the settling of an uniforme Government and breake out communities into severall Sects such as so divide the husband from the wife the parents from the children the master from the servants that a zealous Ioshua cannot say I and my house will serve the Lord Iosh 24.15 since his family is distracted and sorted into severall Congregations and it may be also into hereticall conventicles Fame saith that such factious journeymen as Mr. D. are publique Incendiaries and Trumpeters of Sedition by taking all occasions making use of all advantages casting about for all manner of devices to increase their divided partie that they may be able to uphold a faction and because they cannot hope that their noveltie and paucitie should be able to maintaine a publique contest against so many both persons and Churches as are engaged against their way they make it their Master-piece to leaven the most considerable Societies Cities Sea-Townes Armies but especially the Parliament with their Independent Principles and practices and either to get Independents into places of chiefe power and trust or to seduce such as are eminent in dignitie endowments or authoritie to their side and if they cannot obtaine them they plot how to displace them and if they cannot doe that to render them lesse serviceable to the Publique their way is to weaken their reputation with reproaches or cunningly to intimate some matter of suspition touching their acts or intentions if they be of such integritie as is of impregnable proofe against their obloquie then they will by way of compliance worke out of them what they can which may conduce to their designe and if they can prevaile no further they will at least by an artificiall sweetnesse of behaviour by appearances of more then ordinary piety by a pretended extenuation of difference of opinion and practice and by such insinuations so becalme or becharme the spirits of some Presbyterians of eminent parts as to make them if not favourable to their cause yet so that they may not appeare against them when they should or but in a very remisse and moderate degree of opposition Lastly to returne to our Intelligencer they set up weekly Pamphleters who are wholly of their stampe or fee them or by some other artifices worke upon them to take all occasions to magnifie their partie and to vilifie and calumniate those that oppose them and so they sometimes hyperbolize a Shrub on that side into a Cedar and disparage those who under God are the chiefe pillars and supporters of the publique welfare as if they were of no more worth or use then Reeds shaken with the wind and this is not the least part of the Independent policy to drive on their designe all over the Kingdome for most of the common people know little of the progresse of publique affaires but by such Informers and they furnish them with weekly lies to honour those of their owne sect or sects rather for they are many and to cast reproaches on such as are serious and resolute in all just and lawfull meanes of establishing of truth and restoring of peace But it may be he meaneth by Fame that report which he and his fellowes in loose sheets have dispersed abroad in City and Countrey and if so I say Famaest malum his fame is infamous notoriously false as he applyeth it viz. to those who make addresses to the Parliament by way of Petition We did intreat saith he the last weeke they would let the Parliament alone and wait and no doubt they would see a good issue and good content We did intreat them to let the Parliament alone We Sir who besides your selfe and why you and what meane you by letting the Parliament alone doe you forbid the subject of England to petition the Parliament if that be your meaning as a man of Moderate Intelligence may easily perceive it is do you not mean they should be deprived of the most undoubted Priviledge and Libertie which by the Law of Nature and of Nations is allowed all over the world if the Parliament had beene of that mind since their first Session they would not have tendred so many Petitions to the King nor have received so many Petitions from all parts of the Kingdome nor could they but by the informations received in them have knowne so much of the distemper of severall Counties nor had so just grounds and causes as they had for many of their Orders and Ordinances which were issued out from that Honourable Senate and your selfe say in the next page that a part of the Parliaments Answer to the Citie Petition was that the Citizens were intreated hereafter that they would take satisfaction from themselves that is satisfaction of their doubts and desires by immediate recourse to that Honourable Court and how can that be better or more acceptably done then by way of petition But he saith They need not feare they may be kept a while from their desires but in the end they will have content if their own earnest pressing for it doe not hinder How knowes he that better then they who have put up their desires for expediting the difficulties of the Government by way of petition to the Parliament The truth is if he beleeve