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A25589 An Answer to the declaration of the pretended assembly at Dundee and to a printed paper intituled The protestation given in by the dissenting brethren to the General Assembly, July 21, 1652, reviewed and refuted &c., in which answer are set down ten steps of their defection who follow the way of publick resolutions : together with observations upon some of the acts of the p. assemblies at Dundee and Edinburgh and some papers concerning the endeavors of the protesters for union with their brethren who differ from them in judgement. 1653 (1653) Wing A3405; ESTC R34190 125,882 174

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against them both by preaching and by writing their minds to the Commission of the Kirk and to others of their Brethren as they had opportunity Upon which occasion also it was that many were necessitated to withdraw from such Fasts as did involve an approbation of these Resolutions and what was in all this but duty May not yea ought not the servants of God Ministers and People bear testimony against declining and backsliding and study to keep their own garments pure and refuse to say a confederacy to wicked men in the Interests and Cause of God It is a shrewd insinuation that is made of their drawing factions amongst the People as if they had stirred the People to sedition or to tumults The utmost length which Ministers went was to hold forth the sinfulnesse of that course how contrary it was to our former Principles how it would help to hasten on more wrath or if it did seem to prosper how dangerous it would prove to the Cause and People of God by setting up of such as had been and still were adversaries to both and the greatest length which People went was To profess their dislike thereof and without tumult or faction to withdraw or in a sober and modest way to refuse to concur because they had no clearness nor satisfaction in their consciences concerning these Resolutions withal they did clearly declare their judgments against the Invasion and for the defence of the Cause and their Country and their readiness to concur in all lawful means according to the Word and former Principles for that end If any who had been formerly honest and born any part of the burden and heat of the day were branded as back-sliders it was not so much by Dissenters from the Publick Resolutions as by the multitude of that generation with whom they did associat I mean the Malignants who did not spare openly and every where to say That these honest men were now come to them as for others though they cannot so vindicate themselves as to say that there is none amongst them who doth at any time speak rashly or unadvisedly with his lips yet the Lord knows it was the grief of their hearts that honest men should have fallen from their integrity and though they could not chuse but bear Testimony against their sin yet they did it as afflicted in spirit keeping reverence respect and affection unto the men themselves and had the iniquity been private they would most willingly have covered the shame thereof but it was publick and such as did relate to the publick Cause and wherein their con●ent and concurrence was desired and therefore they were forced to speak and not to suffer sin upon themselves nor upon their Brethren There is yet one thing remains That whilst no means were left unes●ayed for making of Publick Resolutions ineffectual that no possible nor probable mean was holden forth for t●e relief of the Kingdom if it be meant as to the time when these Resolutions were first taken by the Commissions Answer to the Parliaments Quaere there could nothing of that kind be then holden forth by such a are dissatisfied with these Resolutions because few or none of them were present advertisments not being so much as sent to many of them and the time being so short that others could not come upon the advertisments which w●re sent to them The advertisment came to Sterline upon the Tuesday to be dispatched unto all the Presbyteries in the West that their Commissioners might keep at Perth upon the Thursday immediately following which day could not probably be but past before the advertisment came at most of them it being in the depth of the winter-season when the day was at the shortest and by such bearers as was not fixed or sent of purpose but by such as were occasionally going to those places for other business yea suppose the utmost diligence imaginable had been used it had not been possible to send these Advertisments from Sterlin to the Commissioners of these Presbyteries in the West in so short a time and these Commissioners thereupon to have kept the Diet at Perth as any who knows the distance of these places will easily acknowledge it being above fourty miles betwixt Perth and Glasgow which is the nearest of the Presbyteries of the West the rest of them being a good deal more remote some of them three or fourscore miles And if it be meant that after the taking of these Resolutions no possible nor probable mean was holden forth by these who did object against them it was to no purpose then to do it the Authors and Abetters of them being so zealous for them that they would admit of no obiection to the contrary much less be content to wave these Resolutions and go to a calm and peaceable enquiry about other possible or probable means of defence and yet as before the taking of these Resolutions the possibility and probability of other means had been often holden forth so was it also holden forth after the taking of these Resolutions To say nothing of Treaty and Conference which was moved by some but peremptorily and bitterly rejected by others the possibility and probability of getting an Army without employing and entrusting of the Malignant party was holden forth and they who did assert otherwise did a great deal of wrong to the Kingdom and Kirk of Scotland and make them too much malignant It is true they were considerable for number power and policie who were and ought to have been excluded yet were there as many besides as might have been means competent in rational prudence for defence of the Kingdom and Cause especially in a Nation covenanted with God which ought to be tender in all their wayes and to stay themselves not upon Horses and Chariots but upon the Name of the Lord. After the setting down of all these things they are pleased to assert That they do of their own nature contribute no less effectually to the delivering up of all to the will of the En●m●e without stroke of sword then if it had been purposely intended As no evil cause can of it self produce any good effect so neither can any good cause of it self produce an evil effect good and evil being contrary in their natures and the one not natively arising out of the other What was done in these was duty and good in it self and therfore had no connexion in it self with any evil thing that is charged upon it when I reade this charge● I remembered the challenge of the Pripets of Jud●h against the Prophet Jeremiah That he weakened the hands of the men of war that remained in the City and the hands of all the People and that he sought not the welfare of the People but their hurt Jer. 38.4 DECLARATION THe last step is set down in this answer to the Protestation but because it is u●hered in with a large Preface that is not mentioned in this Answer therefore I shall speak
whether they have given diligent heed to that word of exhortation that saith Let them come to thee but go not thou to them 2. That the Protesters have studied to take hold of every oportunity to declare and make known their approbation of and adherence unto the Work of Reformation and to bear testimony against all injuries done thereunto and encroachments made thereupon and have endeavoured to the utmost of their power to prevent and remedy the same 3. That the Authors and Abettors of the Publick Resolutions have now met several times in their Assemblies and Commissions yet to this day have we had no word of testimony from them against these adversaries of our Cause with the promoting of whose design they do so much charge the Protesters but their spirit and zeal hath been spent another way As to what they have done at their late Assembly with closed doors none being present but themselves that cannot be looked on as a testimony to the Cause of Christ and at the best it will amount to no higher then the profession of Nicodemus in private Why have they not made it a testimony indeed and appointed some of their number to present own and avow it before some of these against whom they testifie as the Protesters did seasonably and with the first oportunity Or why did they remove all others out of their meeting Were they afraid that some should have born witnesse and testified what they had done If they looked on themselves as an Assembly of this Kirk they cannot be ignorant that the transactions of Generall Assemblies ought and use to be publick and especially their testimonies Or why did they not communicate the same to Synods Presbyteries and Congregations but let it ly in the dark to this day If they desire to be accompted faithfull they would either give a more distinct and certain sound concerning these adversaries or else speak lesse against the Protesters lest they bewray more passion then piety and more of the zeal of themselves then of the true zeal of God 4. Where hath that spirit lodged which this last year past hath been most effectuall for carrying on the design of the adversaries whether among the Protesters or amongst the Authors and Abettors of the Publick Resolutions let themselves speak But because he is pleased from that Warning and Declaration of the Assembly at Dundee to mention seven steps of progresse whereby they labour to prove what they do assert in the former passage acted by him therefore seeing that Declaration which is fraughted with much ill-grounded charity to Malignants and with a great deal of causelesse prejudice and mistaken zeal against many of the precious and godly in the Land begins again to be digged up out of its grave wherein sad dispensations of Providence did once seem to bury it before it could be heard speak in many of the Congregations of the Land therefore though he do insist on the last Step. yet for truths sake and for clearing of these who are traduced without cause I shall speak shortly to all the seven The DECLARATION at Dundee THe first step is expressed thus The credulity of some believing the hypocriticall pretences of this now prevailing faction of Sectaries mixed apparently with the crafty designe of others would not so much as admit the suspition of this enemies purpose to invade us and thereupon did resist and retard the lifting of an Army for the defence of the Cause and Kingdom untill the Enemy was very near our Borders and had emitted a Declaration of their resolution to invade us so that all means of defence was like to be utterly marred DEFENCE TWo things are charged here upon the Protesters and their adherents as the principle of their actings credulity in some and designe in others As to the first it is indeed ordinary to gracious men to be credulous of these who have the shew of godlinesse until they see them deny the power thereof and I think this fault if it be a fault may be easily pardoned by these who allow so large charity to Malignants upon bare and naked Professions now and then when they come before the Judicatories of the Kirk notwithstanding of their many former breaches and relapses and known dissimulatio contrary cariages in the tenor of their speeches actings but what ever be these mens credulity yet seing they walked in the simplicity of their hearts the Lord hath to this day keeped them out of snares and given them as to the main of their carriage to keep the straight way declining extreams on both hands As to the second to wit a crafty designe in others it is alleadged to be apparently so but no evidence is brought of that neither can any evidence be brought of it it being a meer alleadgeance without all ground of truth such things have been spoken and written and preached by some now for a good while past it is now high time since it hath been so often called for for their own credits sake to bring some proof of what they say I beseech the Author if these words and of all such expressions as before the Lord and as they would not wrong themselves nor their brethren nor delude and do injury to others by filling their hearts with thoughts of jealousie and rancour against innocent men if they know any thing of this kind to bring it forth and if they know nothing to forbear such reproches which thogh for the present they be bitter to these whom they asperse yet in the end the shame wil return upon the heads of these who have broached and vented them It nay be remembred that reproaches of this kind were cast upon the most eminent and faithfull in the year 1648 by the Authors of the unlawfull Engagement because of their opposing thereof and bearing testimony against the same but passing these I come to that which is alleadged to be their work and that was that they did resist and retard the lifting of an Army for defence of the Cause and Kingdom for clearing and confuting of which it would be remembred that as in resolving and condescending upon the Instructions given to the Commissioners of this Kingdom for Treating with the King there were some who too much favouring the Malignant party would have had it put in Instruction that this Kingdom would engage in a War against England for restoring the King to his Throne upon condition of his giving satisfaction in the Demands propounded to him which when they could not obtain their next endeavour was that the transaction at Bredah might be so carried as that the King and his Party might have some probable assurance of this and therefore was the first invitation given to the King there contrived in such words expressions as seemed to import the same which being sent home to this Kingdom was censured corrected by the Parl. 〈◊〉 new Instructions sent back to Holland containing the express demands of this
be admitted judges to Pious men and true P●ety I fear all that arrive beyond a meer formality shal be condemned for Hypocrites I would not appeal to the generality of the Land in the matter of judging what is right and wrong in jure betw●xt those that are for the Publick Rosolutions and the Protestets but I d●re freely hazard to the vote of the major parton the Land the matter of fact which is the thing in contest betwixt these that are for the Publick Resolutions and the Protesters that is to say whether the Assembly at Dundee and Edinburgh be keeping their former Principles yea or not If you will ask any even of the Malignant party at least all that ever I could speak with my self or hear of from any other they will tell you the Kirk was wrong before but now is become right since the King came to Scotland and these who are most grossly prophane and wicked in all the Land are now become great Zealots and stout patriots for the late Assemblies though before they were haters of all Kirk Judicatories PROTESTATION Reviewed NExt they speak of a party of insufficient scandalous il-affected Ministers c. complying with the times expressing their dis-affection to the Work of Reformation as they found opportunity as in the time of James Graham and the unlawfull Engagement who got greater advantage by the Publick Actings for bringing in of Malignants to places of trust And who perceiving they wore not able to endure tryall and purging began the last year to lift up their heads and being encouraged by the Acts and Censures of Dundee have so strengthened themselves as to carry on Publick Determinations to their own ends from whom say they what can be expected but to favour every evill course to persecute such as seek the Lord in sincerity suppresse the power of Godlinesse and open the door of the Ministery to such as for insufficiency scandals or dis-affection have been justly deposed in regard whereof they think there is too great cause to make use of the Prophets words Jer. 23.14 15. There be many things here deserve animadversion I. Although we deny not but that in every Order there may be some out of Order as Judas among the Apostles and Saul among the Prophets yet know we not of any such party as they speak of nor did so much as any person of that kinde sooner appear among us then according to the measure of his offence he found the severity of Discipline It would be seriously considered whether or not by this Party they mean the Body of the Ministery represented at Dundee whom thus they would cast an odium upon but what favour the Party that was truly such as they describe found at that venerable Assembly let their Acts and Declarations speak which Declaration of theirs mentioneth another Party that hath alas too long lurked among us and under specious pretexts brought their design to that pass we now see These men should according to the common rule first have purged themselves and taken this beam out of their own eye PROTESTATION Defended I Wish the corrupt party amongst the Ministery were as thin sowen as he would insinuat by telling there was a Ju●at among the Apostles and a Saul among the Prophets But the many Acts of Assemblie for purging the Ministery by ordinary Judicatories and because of their negligence the Commissions appointed for Visitation and the great work they had where they came Visitations in other parts of the Land where as much if not more work of that kinde was to be expected being interrupted by the troubles of the time and other impediments the grosse ignorance not only of the People but even of the Elders in many Congregations where their present Ministers have been living amongst them some twenty some thirty years and have not so much as taken pains to instruct them in the necessary grounds of Religion together with the neglect of Discipline during that time and yet such suffered to remain in the Ministery the scandals of many Ministers for drunkennesse and other common vices together with their godless carriage at home and abroad are more then abundant proof of what is alleaged in the Protestation And though this Reviewer is pleased to say they knew not of any such Party yet alas it is more palpable to the mourners in Zion then that they need any further proof thereof then to be conversant amongst many of them but a very few dayes and I know that some who concur with the late Assemblies will not deny it but I trust do make conscience to mourn for it in secret before the Lord. The Protestation doth not speak of the Body of the Ministery but a corrupt Party which had too great influence at the Assembly in Dundee Whereas he referret his Readers to the Acts made at Dundee to know what favour the Party that was truly such found there no such Acts are ordinarily to be seen I am sure but such as are made against the Protesters and the Dissenters from the Publick Resolutions are to be readily found in all hands If the thing he meaneth be the slight Act made against the divisive Supplication what hath followed thereupon for execution lesse ur more If he mean that the Supplications of Ministers formerly deposed for grosse faults were not granted he may remember the Politick argument used at Dundee and renewed at Edinburgh upon the same occasion viz. That it was good to abstain from present reponing them because of the odium it would bring upon them and for that Declaration he yet again mentioneth I have told him it hath been answered PROTESTATION Reviewed IT is true indeed and I trust the Kirk of this Nation hath no reason to repent that she still hath some who during the prevailing of the Prelats were carryed down with the tide of the times even to give subscriptions according to the then way of entry and being weighted therewith do comfort themselves with Paul that God will be mercifull unto them in that which they did ignorantly But for those horrid Oaths they speak of nothing is known but the common subscription and if ought concern the Kirk to know more it should neither have been so long concealed by those who appropriat to themselves the title of the Godly nor now revealed at such a time and in such a way As for their subscriptions they were generally known yet notwithstanding thereof were the subscribers even at first invited to the Covenant and some of them with the first appeared against the Service-Book and many of them have not to this day fallen from their stedfastnesse neither were all that have fallen of that number But for further and full clearing of this I offer these things 1. Some of the prime of their number are also if not more grossely guilty of the ill then any of ours 2. There are of our number ten for one of theirs who in that hour and power of