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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30189	An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.	Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662.	1642 (1642)	Wing B558; ESTC R3127	281,779	264

what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Minister you reade that he usurped over the faithfull hindred the due execution of Church-censures abused excommunication prated against the Brethren and practised a false government And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution prove a Church to be no Church the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate If the Church had not the power of government at this time if we may beleeve you or receive your position they were no church if they had power in their hands and suffered it to be abused their sinne was the greater And if you take a view of your dealings in this or other particulars vilifying what you are not able to confute and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning if your paper blush not I can hardly thinke but your conscience will smite SECT II. IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes Can. Neces of Separat pag. 154. shee is not his saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes saith Mr Brightman and y Syons plea. 111. others Therefore shee is not his house and consequently to be separated from ANSVVER YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I passe over because they have been answered already and are here thrust in to no purpose but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply His answer was the want of discipline though an integrall part is no sufficient ground of separation This z Can. Neces of Separat p. 152 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason but with railing and reproach to disgrace wherein whether you more wound your own conscience or hurt your adversary be judge your selfe a Can. Neces of Separat pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9 Rom. 13.21 You say truely It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke and a thousand times better were it to sustaine even a legion of reproaches than for a man by turning though but one to give cause of suspition that evill hath got some part of conquest over him But if you looke into your own writings you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting scornfull taunts and reproaches unbeseeming your place person and a good cause I dare say all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline never went in practise so much against their Principles as you in this one particular goe against your profession in the foresaid passage and a good conscience The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church To what end then doe you bring That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England is an infectious Liturgie Romish-stuffe a devised service raked out of three Romish Channells That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian That the Ministery worship and government of of England are corruptions Doth this make ought to confirme your position or weaken the answer which was truely given But some thing must be said whether to or besides the purpose it matters not Another stratageme b Can. Neces of Separat pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place not very commendable You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe What say you if it appeare that Mr D. arguments doe lead rather to separation and that he speaketh one thing and practiseth another would not this be a strange sight especially to himselfe Now whether this be so we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure But though the moode and figure be his the reasons be your owne and not his and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises as the D. answered and we have shewed before Perhaps in warre stratagems may be of use but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms This I note to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done and now I come to the argument here propounded whereunto I make answer as you relate it for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written The power of the keyes is twofold Concioualis Judicialis as it is usually called The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent sinnes remitted life promised and heaven shut to the obstinate which is the sword and the scepter of Christ whereby he saveth his people 2 Cor. 1.21 2 Cor. 10.4 Isa 11.4 Rom. 1.16 and conquereth his enemies beateth downe every strong hold p●ireeth to the division of foule and spirit and of the joynts and marrow and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart These effects Christ executeth by his Word even when it is not assisted by the c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper least by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table the ungodly should condemne themselves and defile others Bilson perpet gov cap. 9. discipline spoken of Now if it be rightly understood the Church of God cannot be without this key For the Church is gathered by the Word and is a company or societie which hath received the Word in profession at least and doth possesse it and amongst whom it dwelleth The Judiciall power of the d Excommunication is a meere spirituall punishment reacheth no further by Gods word than to take from offenders the remission of their sinnes by wanting the Word and Sacraments untill they repent Bilson Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures and so of the manners and necessities of all men which agreeth not to any one member nor to the communitie of the faithfull nor to any one singular governour but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull In the first sense the Church of England hath the power of the keyes e Cyp. lib. 1. epist 3. I hardly perswade the people yea I am forced to wrest it from them before they will suffer such to be admitted Bilson perpet gov c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied before they released the sentence of excommunication c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop but what ●●e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life I am not altogether averse that the whole Church should concurre in that action c. See August contr Par Ep. 1 l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired but in an eminent sort and that with Gods

their servant from whom you derive your office and authoritie and from whom you receive your Commission your Ministery in that respect is no lesse false and antichristian than theirs that derive it from the Bishops Secondly If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops and be called and chosen by the people their calling is just and lawfull according to the rules of Scripture and their Ministery heavenly and from above if they preach the intire faith and feed the flocke of God For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation not by authoritie from men but by commission from the chiefe Shepheard and Bishop of our soules their calling may be justified by the Word and warrant of truth which shall stand for ever the more hainous and fearefull is your sinne in matching the Ministery of such men to the idolatry of Jehu Thirdly You are bold to affirme That no Church under Heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery c. And it is true the Church hath no power to ordaine any Ministery for Christ is the Author and institutour of the Ministery for his Church But your meaning is That this kinde of Ministery is against the Scripture not ordained and then if we call for your proofe we have nothing here but I deny it Can. Neces of Separat pag. 217. You take up Mr Br. how well it becomes you let the Reader judge as a bold Sophister because he makes flat deniall of expressed truthes As thus I say it is false I deny it c. As if the weight of an argument were sufficiently removed by empty denials But when you should make proofe of what you affirme it sufficeth you to say I deny or this proves it not or I have proved from their writings when you have falfified them onely And if an empty deniall be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation it is very strange Bilson Christ subject par 1. p. 41. I may justly say to you as Dr Bilson to the Papist whom he answered If great vaunts were sound proofes the victory were yours you have words and cracks at will they cost you nothing SECT III. THat it is so I prove it thus Neces of Separat pag. 53. That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give But none may lawfully bestow the Ministery of a Lecturer Therefore that Ministery is unlawlawfull The Assumption for shame cannot be denied if the nature of it be considered For as we but even now said their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them they make covenant we●h the people but for a certaine time the peculiar worke of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them weither expected of them If any object that they preach the Word To this Dr Ames gives an answer fully that the preaching of the Gospell is not a worke peculiar to a Minister for such as are private men and out of office may and ought to preach the Word as occasion is offered and not onely privately but saith he in the publique Congregation c. ANSVVER VVE have here the same thing over againe and when all is said it is but this I deny it or I say it The assumption cannot for shame be denied The proposition rightly understood is true and sound but it may carry divers constructions As first the meaning may be That Ministery is for substance unlawfull which none may lawfully give to such or such persons scil to such as be unfit or prophane And in this sense the proposition is not sound For the Ministery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man an hypocrite but the Ministery it selfe is heavenly and from above Or the sense may be That Ministery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally And then it is weake For Pastours and Teachers are the gifts of Christ unto his Church from whom they receive their office and not from men Or it may beare this sense That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give in such forme and manner as it is executed And then it is lyable to exception For of right the power of administration of the Seales and Censures of the Church belong to the Pastours Teachers and Governours of the Church when in the execution of this office they may be hindred It is lawfull to be an assistant or helper to a Pastour for a time when it is not lawfull to give the office of Ministery to a man for a time onely and then to expire To the assumption The Lecturers of whom we speak have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ by the Ministery of his Church as instruments their entrance into it lawfull the service and worke it selfe holy the manner of performing it warrantable and the authoritie they have received the same which Christ hath communicated to the Ministers of the Gospell To publish the truth by way of instruction or exhortation is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospell but by authoritie 〈…〉 ●●culiar to the Minister For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word and dispensation of the Seales as both belonging to the Officers Math. 28.19 1 Cor. 1. who have received commission from Jesus Christ And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise and so the Governours of the Church shall have power to doe nothing which every private member of the societie may not doe as well as they But Lecturers preach the Gospell by authoritie and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest And this may suffice to shew the vanitie of such exceptions as are taken against our Church Ministery and worship to prove it to be no true Church worship and Ministery and how untruly and unjustly the Nonconformists are charged to lay the grounds of that 〈◊〉 and affected Separation which some have run into To examine what argument is returned to Dr Ames Mr Daw Mr Br is needlesse for nothing of weight is said against them but the same things vainly repeated with insolent scoffes and reproaches as if by evill speaking you hoped to get the victory It is to be observed generally you say Can. Neces of Separat pag. 211. that those which stand for bad causes doe after this sort still reproach the Adversaries Thus doe the Papists the Protestants so the Protestants the Puritanes and so they us as here and in other writings usually Now I would entreat you to review your two books and speake in good earnest whether in scoffing reproaching falsifications you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall Consider seriously and then let conscience be Judge whether it be the note of a good or evill cause c. FINIS A Table of some principall Points handled in this Treatise In the first Part. Concerning a false Ministerie and communicating therein p. 3 4. Nonconformists lay not the grounds

not beene noted for noveltie singularitie and division is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God If these assertions be true then is this condemnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue For not only all old writers generally but the most learned of later times yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie themselves excepted are against it Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord CAN stay sect 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement and to judge the wrongs Gregorie to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu q●●● Christo universali ecclesic capiti in extr●mi judicii d●cturus es examine qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere CAN stay against straying sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians whose intemperate furie made Ernestus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants out of a fear they were all of the same spirit and would in the end procure like mischiefe Am. Polan in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches which are cast upon his Church and Saints ordinances and worship they would not speake evill of what they know not revile his heritage despise his worship condemn the righteous vilifie the ordinances of grace abuse Scriptures misalledge Authors cause divisions and schismes in the Churches of God distract the minaes of some obstinate others and expose religion it selfe to contempt Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day speaketh to his opposite in a cause of lesse importance When God ariseth up what will they answer him what will they say when hee shall not onely charge them that they have made a rent in the Church brought an evill report upon his ordinances spoken contemptuously of that which he approved yea commanded and perverted his word for that end and purpose But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed the weake scandalized the godly made sad and that which was halting quite turned aside If it be sure that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend than for them which doe such things themselves let the adviser weigh seriously whether it doth not concerne himselfe as much as any other to tremble and stand in awe It is a vaine boast that at this day there are few CAN say Epis● to the Reader The judgment and practice of some men of speciall account in the Church of God have to this day held this impression in me that I esteem the Captaines and Ancient-bearers of this schisme unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutation S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne Ep. to the Christian Reader CAN Neces of separa Epist to the Reader Galschill to Martial Epist Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequi●● paranda if any except Formalists and Familists and men of corrupt mindes who suppose that gaine is Godlines that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship For the professors as he is pleased to stile them are of the same judgement touching those things that formerly they have beene of and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ and their worship to be of his holy institution If of later times they have beene silent in these matters it is not because they are better informed or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous but they would not spend good houres in vaine seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered not with reproaches taunts and boastings as is suggested but with solid proofe out of the booke of God Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise than to mispend their time in answering that which in the eares of all indifferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it or is sufficiently confuted already specially when experience had lessoned them that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring when weight of reason is wanting to them Neverthelesse If not reply if they please and when they will CAN stay Epist When the undertakers have finished their answer and ●ast Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it Id sect 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent or beget too great confidence in men of the goodnesse of their cause and others should stumble at their vaunts as if none durst because they doe not undertake their answer I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies and from the worship of God performed amongst us Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his bookes CAN stay epistle to the Reader 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set himself as in Gods presence and look on with a single and unpartiall eye 2 That he live by his owne faith and build not upon another mans fancie 3. That he denie himself and be contented to be guided by God alone 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not condemne the whole 5. That hee change not the state of the Question 6. That he may finde plaine dealing Id. Stay sect 1. p. 2.4.5 Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur Amb. de vocat Gent. tom 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus ●ffi mare de Scripturis sanctis Hier. in Psal 98. tom 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si d●ssentiant Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay sect 4. p. 32. sect 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes the Law or Gospell Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himselfe in his writings let the indifferent judge as namely whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged Authors rightly quoted arguments plainly propounded conclusions soundly drawne his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he commendeth unto his Reader Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes than confute their grounds with substantiall reasons and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing simplicitie and integritie he doe not play the jugler who pretends plainnesse that he might beguile and deceive the sooner For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion

false worship is neither absurd nor childish howsoever you are pleased to spurne and kick at it Peruse your owne manner of arguing implyed here CAN Neces of separat p. 190 191. and then speak of your answer to the other be not rash and partiall As for the particular point in hand the authors alledged by you speake nothing to your purpose For men may run when they bee not sent two wayes First when they are outwardly called but not inwardly qualified as with knowledge truth holinesse or care to doe the duties of their place and these are lawfull and unlawfull Ministers both lawfull as Ministers of Gods providence for the punishment of some and the good of others unlawfull as not approved of God in their place and standing Secondly when they have no manner of calling neither set apart by men in authoritie nor received by the Church nor qualified as they ought and these are every way unlawfull Againe false Prophets are of two sorts I Such as spring up in the Church teaching corrupt or perverse things but either not discovered or not convicted or not cast out These the faithfull must not believe though they may not forsake or cast off the Societies where such are tolerated 2. Such as teach damnable doctrines are not set apart to offices false and idolatrous and either never were in the societie of the true Church or bee lawfully convicted and justly cast out and with these the faithfull must hold no communion This is that which the learned teach as it hath beene shewed but it makes nothing at all to your purpose For you can never prove from Scripture reason or Nonconformists principles either that the ministerie of the Church of England is absolutely false or that any Ministers in the Church be false in the second acceptation of the word It is needlesse to proceed further in the examination of particular Authors CAN Stay sect 12. p. 118 because you your selfe doe affirme as much The godly say you are admonished to examine doctrines delivered to them in a right way and order And if they find any by teaching to be a false Prophet Id. sect 11. p. 115. they are to depose him and afterwards not to heare him againe Againe it is a question whether the godly in the Jewish Church having by hearing discovered the Scribes and Pharisees to be strangers that is false Prophets might afterward heare them againe Robins Iustif of separa p. 434. The Treatiser was once of minde that they might not and gave some reasons for it But howsoever the case is not easily to be determined considering the state of that Church and time yet this is cleare to all men of sound judgement that in the Churches now under the Gospell false Prophets may not be suffered But after due and orderly conviction being found so and obstinate they are to bee rejected and so no outward hearing of them any more Whence briefly let these things be noted First that the effects may be right and lawfull when the instruments are wrong and unlawfull in themselves and that a man may lawfully communicate in the effects of such actions whose instruments are unlawfull For the Scribes and Pharisees were unlawfull instruments by your own confession T.C. to his sister Anne Stubs You have indeed enough that bitterly speake against us but having no reproofes in their mouths nor arguments to confute their thunderbolts of judgement and condemnation are like headlesse arrowes not taken out of the Lords quiver but from their owne sides c. but the effects of their ministerie in which the faithfull might and did lawfully communicate A false Prophet not discovered not convicted orderly before he can be deemed obstinate and cast forth is an unlawfull instrument but you will not say the effects of his Ministerie are unlawfull and not to be communicated in I might here adde that is unskillfull to confound instruments and working causes or linke them together as if there were the same reason of both seeing all instruments are not working causes Secondly the Ministers of the Church of England have not duely and orderly beene convinced of corruption in doctrine especially in points fundamentall or that their place and standing is unlawfull much lesse can they be esteemed obstinate They were never cast out by the faithfull and true members of the Church but approved maintained and reverenced by them All reformed Churches all the faithfull in the reformed Churches doe acknowledge them the servants of Jesus Christ approve their standing reverence their gifts hold communion with them professe the same doctrine which they maintaine and praise God for his blessing upon their labours And now consider with what uprightnesse and integritie you have alleadged these Authors against the hearing of the word in our English Assemblies as if all the Ministers of the Church were false Prophets convicted obstinate and outed the Church You tell us peremptorily CAN. Necess of Separ p. 188. If the reformed Churches do justifie the English therein they condemne greatly their own practice for in their constitution ministerie worship and Government they are as opposite as light and darknes one to the other Bilson Christ subject part 4 p. 542. We would have you regard if not your consciences before God yet your credits before men Can you find nothing to object that the Sun doth not shine at Noone-day Is it not apparant to all the Christian world that the reformed Churches doe give unto us the right hand of fellowship and esteem as us the true Churches of Iesus Christ In manner of government they differ from us and they have abolished some rites and Ceremonies which we retaine as matters indifferent not as matters of holines necessity or worship this is the profession of our Church but in doctrine worship and ministery for the substance thereof there is a sweete agreement And the differences that are betwixt them and us in other matters Calv. instit l. 4. c. 18 Sect. 32. Confess Helv. c. 27 Angl. Conf. art 34 Aug. Conf. art 7. Bohem. Conf. art 15. Calv Ep. col 170. ●p col 478. they have so learned to tolerate as neither to condemne their owne practice nor to dis-church us and the like Christian moderation they receive from us backe againe The Churches of Christ have not learned to cure every scratch of a pin with a knife or launce This art of curing they leave to you who was never admitted into the society of discreete Physitians among them or us Thirdly consider how uncertaine their wayes are who walke in darknesse Sometimes the Scribes and Pharisees were to be heard because they were lawfully called Sometimes they might not be heard sometime it is a case not easily determined and sometimes in the Churches now under the New Testament false Prophets are not to be suffered as if the passages of Scripture forbidding to heare false Prophets must be restrained to the times of the Golpell Such

Dispute upon communicating at confused Communions affirming that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the kneeler But he was no English-Nonconformist nor doth intreat of English conformitie And if there be any speciall reasons why presence should be accounted approbation with them in that particular it is no equitie his private opinion should be brought to the prejudice of them that maintaine another cause But as yet we cannot see either from Scripture grounds or Nonconformists principles that it is utterly unlawfull to be present at the worship of God in the administration whereof some superstitious rite is used or some fault committed Your long labour in setting downe the faults to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose The Nonconformists doe except against many things appointed in the Booke as inconvenient at least and such as should be taken away or reformed as The reading of Apocryphall books under the title of holy Scripture specially such parts as be corrupt for matter The Crosse and Surplice as Idolothites by participation and signes of mysticall signification The corruptions in the translations and some things in the formes of Buriall Matrimony Thanksgiving for Women after child-bed c. But these they condemne not as Idolatry nor as that which maketh the worship it selfe m Magdeburg centu 2. ca. 2. col 109. A true Church as it containes the pure doctrine so also it keepes simplieitie of ceremonies but an hypocriticall Church as it departs from pure doctrine so for the most part it changeth augmenteth the ceremonies instituted of God and multiplieth its owne traditions c. Can. Stay pa. 123. false and idolatrous It is one thing to say such a rite is inconvenient superstitious scandalous borrowed from the Papists not warranted by the word of God in the use will-worship if the word be taken largely another that the worship it selfe is false and idolatrous Therefore I will not stand to examine the particulars therein but proceed to examine what you bring further to shew the necessitie of Separation SECT IV. HEre is a fit place to propound a Question or two First whether to hold teach and practise the errours and lyes contained in their Canons Service-booke Booke of Articles and the ordering of Bishops Priests and Deacons doe mak● a false Prophet Secondly Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church make a false Prophet Thirdly Whether it be lawfull to heare any false Prophet knowne so to be Qu In what ranke of Prophets unlawfull Ministers be and under what Scripture they are comprehended I would have a private Christian aske this Question of some learned Divine whom he knowes doth hold it lawfull to heare false Ministers And it is very likely he will answer him with deep silence There is one Question more viz. whether the Lords lawfull Priests which served at the Altar in Jerusalem might not as well urge their people to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel as the Ministers now under the Gospell to perswade men to heare in false Churches If is be not all one shew the difference ANSVVER TO your two last Questions answer hath been made divers times in sundry Treatises and in the first chapter of this present answer and you know the Scriptures plainly alledged to confirme what is said which you should have confuted if you had been able and not againe and againe to come over with the same thing If any learned Divine shall answer the demand with deep silence it may be because the partie demanding is uncapable of an answer not because there is any great difficultie in the matter It is a received Rule That the Accuser Plaintiffe and Affirmer should make proofe of what they say and if you erre your Questionist will affirme it is all one for the people of the Jewes to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel and the people in England to heare the word of God in our assemblies you must either bring good evidence for what you say or beare the brand of Slaunderers or false n Beza Epist 2. An enim obsecro aliter est de Sacramētis i. de doctrinae appendicibus quàm de ipsa doctrina judicandum At qui si nullam esse ecclesiā dicamus ubi nullus est prorsus in cunctis doctrinae Christianae dogmatibus naevus refellent nos Pauli Epistolae Corinthiacis et Galaticis Ecclesiis inscriptae c. Itaque ubi non satis pura est Ecclesiâ Ecclesia tamen est in qua salvum manet fundamentum ac multo magis ubi ritus Caenae Domini mutilus est Caena tamen est c. Accusers Is it sufficient thinke you to say If it be not so let them shew the contrary Your second Question will come to be handled in the next Chapter and there it shall be answered Your first Question onely which I scarce thinke another man would have asked pertaineth to this place wherunto I answer directly and plainly That a Minister of the Gospell may hold teach and practise according to the Book of Common Prayer Articles and Ordination and be a true Minister of Jesus Christ Nay he cannot truely hold and practice according to them but of necessitie he must be a true Minister in respect of his office and administration For the worship for substance there prescribed is of God the doctrine professed in respect of faith and Sacraments sound and true No errour either in speech hereticall or which doth tend to overthrow the foundation which is taught in them Suppose the seventie errours which o Can. Neces of Separat pag. 243 244 245. you reckon up were all true and justly taken against the Books and as many more to them might be named as it is not the number but the qualities of the errours which make a false Prophet false Church or false worship One fundamentall errour as the word is commonly used overthroweth the faith and twenty errours of inferiour alloy doe not much hurt the truth and soundnesse of faith The maine truths which concerne the very life and soule of Religion be p Vsher de success Eccl. cap. 1. few and the failings which may stand with the substance of Religion many Let it aske a better wit and head then ever Mr Dar. or your q Can. Neces of Separat pag. 185. selfe had to prove that there are halfe so many corruptions in the Religion professed by the English-Anabaptists adde if you please the Separatists Pelagians Arrians as are to be found in the English-Liturgie It will not be hard to prove that errours must be r The communion of the Catholique Church is not broken by the varietie of rites customes laws and fashions which many places and countries have different each from other except they be repugnant to faith or good manners August Epist 118. ad Ianuar. Euseb hist lib. 5. cap. 26. lib. 5. c. 23. Socrat. lib.