in those things which succeede vnto vs according to our purpose and pretence but in those that doe exceede our hope or come vnlooked for vnthought of and so we commonly mingle confound Fortune with Chaunce and Chaunce with Fortune yea sometimes we attribute that to either of them which is neither of both But to tel you the very truth this definition of Fortune is so intricate that I my selfe doe not throughly vnderstand his meaning where hee saith according to the purpose and to some end which are two diuers words may be vnderstoode in sondry sence as those doe which glosse vpon his text whose diuersity of opinions maketh the glosse far more difficill then the text it selfe But I will not meruaile hereat because perchaunce Aristotle would doe therein as he did in the selfe same books de Phisicis which being finished and Alexander telling him that it was great pitty that so high excellent a matter should by the publishing thereof become vulgar and cōmon he aunswered that he had written them in such sort that few or none should vnderstand thē And in truth the old Writers in all their works so delighted in compendious breuity of wordes that they not being clearely vnderstoode of those that followed in the ages after were the cause of an infinit variety of opinions neither is there any one which glosseth vpon thē who affirmeth not his interpretation to be the true sence meaning of the Author the same being perchaunce quite contrary But leauing this I say that though in this mother speech of ours we want fit and apt words to signifie the propriety of many things yet in expressing the effects of Fortune we haue more then either the Latine or Greeke for besides prosperous aduerse Fortune we haue Hap Mishap good Luck ill Luck by the which we signifie all successes both good and euill accustoming our selues more vsually to these words then to that of Fortune for what Chaunce soeuer happen to a man we cōmonly say that he was Happy or Vnhappy Lucky or Vnlucky LV. Me thinks that Felicity and Infelicity signifieth also the same that we may very well vse them in such sence as we doe the others AN. You are herein deceaued for Hap Mishap good and euill Luck prosperous aduerse Fortune are as we haue saide when they come by accidentall causes not keeping any order or limitation felicity as saith S. Anthony of Florence is in those things which happen to a man for his merrite and vertue infelicity in not happening to him which hath vertue and merrite to deserue them but these words we vse not in ordinary matters but in those that are of weight and moment some Authors also affirme the same to be vnderstood of prosperous and aduerse Fortune and that we ought not to vse this manner of speech but in difficill matters and such as are of substance and quality BER According to this rule wee erre greatly in our common speech for there are many that come to obtaine very principall estates and dignities not by their vertues and merrites but rather through their great vices and demerrites yet wee commonly say that such mens felicity is great and that they are very fortunate AN. You haue sayde the trueth for indeede wee goe following our owne opinion without any foundation of reason neither leaning to those graue and auncient Phylosophers of tymes past neyther to those which haue written what in true and perfect Christianitie wee ought to thinke thereof who affirme Fortune to bee that which happeneth in worldly and exteriour matters not thought on before nor looked for neyther of it selfe but proceeding from a superiour cause directly contrary to them which hold that such accidents happen without any cause superiour or inferiour but that they all come at happe hazard So that howsoeuer Fortune bee it must bee accidentally and not in thinges that come praemeditated and hoped for but seeing that the most sort of men obserueth heerein no order attrybuting all successes both good and euill to Fortune vvhether they happen or no in such sort as the Definition thereof requireth euery manne speaking and applying as he listeth I hold it for no error if amongst the ignorant wee followe the common vse but amongst the wise and learned me thinkes it were good for a man to be able to yeeld a reason of those things he speaketh and to speake of things rightly according to their Nature and property least otherwise hee be derided and held for a foole BER Greater in my iudgement is the error which wittinglie and wilfully we commit then that which is through ignorance onely neyther can any vse or custome be sufficient to authorize or allow that which in the iudgement of all wise and learned men is held for false and erronious But afore you passe any farther I pray you tell me what you meane in this your last definition whereas you say that Fortune is onely to be vnderstoode in exteriour things AN. It is manifest of it selfe that in thinges spirituall and interiour there can be no Fortune which who so list more at large to see and more particulerly to satisfie himselfe therein may reade S. Thomas in his second booke De Phisicis and in his third Contra Gentiles and S. Anthony of Florence in the second part of his Theologiques LV. As for the opinion of Philosophers you haue sufficiently made vs vnderstand the same now I would you would doe vs the fauour to declare vnto vs what the sacred Doctors of our holy Mother the Catholique Church doe teach and thinke therein AN. Farre different are they from the before alleadged Philosophicall censure for what good Christian soeuer you reason withall concerning Fortune he will aunswer you with the authority of Esay who saith Woe be vnto you that set a table before Fortune and erect Altars vnto her as to a Goddesse for with my knife shall you be cut in peeces The Gentiles as they were passing blinde in all diuine things pertayning vnto God and his omnipotencie so not beeing able to comprehend vnderstand his diuine vniuersall prouidence in all thinges they diuided the same frō God himselfe and made thereof a Goddesse attributing to her gouernment domination power and commaundement all the exterior things of the world which error of theirs herein committed some of themselues doe confesse and acknowledge as Iuuenall where he sayth Where Prudence is thou hast no deitie ô Fortune but wee for want of wisedome doe make thee a Goddesse and place thee in heauen According to which S. Hierome in an Epistle of his to Terentia sayth Nothing is created of GOD without cause neyther is any thing doone by chaunce as the Gentiles thinke the temeritie of blinde Fortune hath no power at all Whereby wee may see that Fortune is nothing else then a thing fained in the fantasie of men and that there is no
for this till that which is promised of the comming of Antechrist be fulfilled which wee knowe not when it shall please GOD to bring to passe In the meane time seeing it now beginneth to grow late let vs deferre this communication of ours till we meet againe to morrow or any other time when it shal please you BER I am well content therwith because the howre of Supper approcheth but on condition that we faile not to meet heere againe to morrow at this time and walke into this pleasant Garden hereby where the varietie of sweet sauours and odoriferous flowers will exceedingly delight vs giue vs occasion to passe our time in good conuersation LUD No man better content with this match then I in the meane time committing you to the protection of the Angels I take my leaue for I must goe this other way AN. God haue both you and vs in his keeping and blesse vs euerlastingly The end of the second Discourse The third Discourse entreating of Fansies Visions Spirits Enchaunters Charmers VVitches and Hags Contayning besides diuers strange matters which haue hapned delightfull and not lesse necessarie to be knowen Interlocutores LVDOVICO ANTHONIO BERNARDO LU. SO soone as I knew of your beeing here I made as much hast as I possibly might to come to you and had not it been that some occasions hindered mee I woulde not haue failed to haue beene the first BER I likewise had a desire to haue come sooner to the end I might the more at leysure haue enioyed the pleasant freshnes of this Garden But because the way betweene this and my lodging is long I stayed for the company of signior Anthonio to enioy by the way his good conuersation LU. To say the very truth I am glad that I finde you here for if I had been heere my selfe alone I should haue beene halfe afraid AN. And of what LV. Haue you not heard that which is bruited abroad these few dayes past AN. I haue not heard any thing neither know I what you meane vnlesse you first declare it vnto me LVD Why it is openly sayde ouer all the Towne that there hath of late appeared in thys Garden certaine visions Spirits which haue affrighted diuers men so that for my part though it be somewhat against my good reputation I am not ashamed to confesse it I am so fearefull that I had rather fight with any man how far soeuer aboue mee in force and strength then to be alone in place where any such cause of feare and amazement might happen AN. There are many which would laugh at this which you say attribute your feare to faintnes and want of courage but I will not meruaile hereat because I know how violently such passions and conditions of the mind are which as it seemeth grow and are borne in men so that though they would neuer so faine yet they cannot shake them off forget them so that I haue seene a man who if you shewed him a Rat would cry out and enter into amazement trembling like a child though in all other his actions he wanted neither valour nor courage Besides this it is a thing publique and well knowne of a Noble man in this Country of ours who if you shut any doore in the whole house where hee is at what houre so euer it be of the night entereth into such an alteration and agony that sometimes he is ready to throw him selfe out at the window And there are others which if you make any iesture at them with your hands or fingers they trouble and vexe them selues as though you did them the greatest oppression and outrage in the world BER These are naturall passions and imperfections which seeing as the olde prouerbe is no man can take away that which Nature hath giuen they that are troubled with them are not to be blamed if they cannot leaue and cast them off so lightly as it seemeth they might to those that are not encombred with them AN. They are not so absolutely naturall as you terme them for they are qualities which worke in men according to the complexion of which they are and as the complexion which is the causer of them may change and is often changed through space of time and many other accidentall causes so also may be changed these which you call passions defects or inclinations naturall We see this verified by good experience in those who are much troubled with melancholly who so long as this humor dureth are amazed at all things which they see hauing in their minds a kind of impression and imagination which maketh those thinges seeme to be of an other figure then in deede they are but this humor consuming and the other humors comming to praedominate aboue that of melancholly this amazement of theirs weareth away and they become in conditions far different to that they were before in this sort the chollerick man is commonly hasty and heedelesse in all occasions and the flegmatick more slowe and tardise But age time and chaunces change many times one complexion into an other and ioyntly the passions conditions and operations of them as by example we see euery day LV. So that you say though they be not wholy naturall yet there is no great error in saying that they are whiles their complexion so continueth without changing AN. Vnderstand it how you will but howsoeuer they are the force which they haue is great so that if it be not with singuler reason and discretion they are sildome kept vnder and subdued BER May they then at any time be subdued AN. Yea indeed may they for I my selfe haue seene good experience thereof in a kindswoman of mine not dwelling farre from hence which being vexed with a kind of melancholly called by the Phisitions Mirrachia vvhich bereaueth the Patient of all iudgement driuing him to a kind of madnes and frenzie in such sort suppressed and preuented the same with discretion and reason that shee sildome suffered her selfe to be vanquished thereof And truly it was strange to see the combate that passed betweene her the melancholly in such sort that you should see her sometimes forced to fall downe groueling to the ground flat vpon her face and though the violence of this humor was such that it forced her somtimes to teare in peeces such thinges as she had about her and to cast stones at those that passed by and to bite those that approached her yet reason continually so striued against the vehemencie of these passions gouerning detaining suppressing them that by little and little they vtterly forsooke her leauing her sences cleare her iudgment vntroubled as it was before but leauing this and returning to your speech of the Spirits which are reported to be seene somtimes in this Garden did you euer procure to sound out the truth thereof LU. Yes marrie did I but I could neuer learne any certainty thereof so that I hold it for a iest and all
feele anguish and payne And if you be desirous to see many particularities and the seuerall opinions of diuers learned Authors read Caelius Rodiginus in his second Booke De Antiquis Lectionibus where hee discourseth copiously thereof But now for not digressing frō the principall let vs come to that which they call Phantasma the vvhich hath his beginning in the fantasie which is a vertue in Man called by an other name Imaginatiue and because thys vertue beeing mooued worketh in such sort that it causeth in it selfe the thinges feigned and imagined to seem present though in truth they are not Wee say also that the thinges which vanish away so soone as we haue seene them are fantasies seeming to vs that wee deceaue our selues and that we sawe them not but that they were onely represented in our fansie But thys is in such sort that sometimes we trulie see them indeed and other times our imagination fansie so present them to our view that they deceaue vs and wee vnderstand not whether they were things seene or imagined and therefore as I thinke comes it that wee call the thinges which we really see Visions and others which are fantasticated and represented in the fantasie Fancies vvhether of which this was that hapned in Fuentes de Ropell I know not but sure I am that it was as true as strange neither is the place so farre distant beeing onely two miles hence but that you may by infinite witnesses be thorowly resolued of the veritie thereof There lyued about 30. yeeres since a Gentleman of good account called Anthonio Costilla who of the vvhich I my selfe can giue good witnesse was one of the valiantest hardiest men of all the Country for I haue beene present at some broyles byckerings of his in which I haue seen him acquite himselfe with incredible courage and valour Insomuch that beeing somewhat haughtie and suffering no man to ouercrowe him he had many enemies thereabouts which caused him wheresoeuer he went to goe alwayes well prouided so that one day riding from his owne house to a place called Uilla Nueua hauing vnder him a good Ginet and a strong Launce in his hand when he had doone his businesse the night cōming on and the same very darke he lept a horse back and put himselfe on his way homeward comming to the end of the Village where stoode a Chappell in the forepart or portall of which there was a lettice window within the same a Lampe burning thinking that it shoulde not be wel done to passe any further without saying his prayers hee drewe neere vnto the same saying his deuotions a horseback where whiles hee so remained looking into the Chappell hee savve three visions like Ghostes issue out of the middest thereof seeming to come out from vnder the ground to touch the height of the roufe with their heads As he had beheld them awhile the haire of his head began to stand an end so that being somewhat affrighted he turned his horse bridle and rode away but he had no sooner lyfted vp his eyes when hee sawe the three visions going together a little space before him seeming as it were to beare him company so that commending himselfe to God blessing him selfe many times he turned his horse spurring him from one side to another but wheresoeuer hee turned they were alwaies before his eyes vvhereupon seeing that he coulde not be rid of them putting spurres to his horse he ranne at them as hard as he could with his Launce but it seemed that the visions went and mooued themselues according to the same compasse wherein hee guided his horse for if he went they went if he ranne they ranne if he stood still they stood still alwaies keeping one euen distance from him so that hee was perforce constrained to haue them in his company till hee came to his owne house before which there was a great court or yard opening the gate of which after hee was lighted of his horse as he entred he found the same visions before him and in this manner came hee to the doore of a lodging where his wife was at which knocking and beeing let in the visions vanished away but hee remained so dismayed and changed in his colour that his wife thinking hee had receaued some wounde or mishap by his enemies often asked him the cause of this his deadly countenaunce alteration and seeing that he would not reueale the same vnto her she sent for a friende of his that dwelt thereby a man of good qualitie and of singuler learning and integritie of life who presently comming and finding him in that perplexity importuned him vvith such instance that at last he recounted vnto him the particularity of each thing that had hapned He being a very discrete man making no exterior shewe of vvonder or amazement bad him be of good courage and shake off that dismaiment with many other comfortable perswasions causing him to goe to supper and from thence brought him to his bedde in which leauing him layd with light burning by him he vvent forth because he would haue him take his rest and sleep but hee was scarcely gone out of his chamber when Anthonio Costilla began with a loud skrietch to cry out for help wherevpon he with the rest entring into the chamber and demaunding the cause of this outcry he told them that hee was no sooner left alone but that the three visions came to him againe and made him blind with throwing dust vpon his eyes which they had scraped out of the ground which in trueth thed found it to be so from that time forward therefore they neuer left him vnaccompanied but all profited nothing for the seauenth day without hauing had Ague or any other accident he departed out of this world LV. If there were present heere any Phisition hee would not leaue to affirme and maintaine that this proceeded of some melancholly humor ruling in him with such force that he seemed really to behold that which was represented in his fantasie BER The same also may wel be for many times it seemeth that we see things which in deed we doe not being deceaued through the force of our imagination and perchance this of those visions may be the like who being once represented in the imagination of fancie had force to work those effects and the humor which caused the same encreasing through amazement and feare might at last procure death yet for all this I will not leaue to beleeue but that these visions were some Spirits who taking those bodies of ayre earth water or fire or mingling for that effect any of those Elements together came to put so great amazement in this man that the same was cause of his death AN. In all things which by certaine knowledge cannot be throughly approoued there neuer want diuers and contrary opinions so that in this diuersity of iudgements I would rather impute it to the worke of Spirits then to any
were thought of some to be Incubi because they were so luxurious Hence many tooke occasion to authorise that for truth which is reported of Marlyn that he was begotten of a deuill but thys is better said then affirmed for whether it be so or no God onely knoweth and besides this vvhich I haue said he speaketh of many other particularities secrets that are amongst the deuils which in truth it is best not to know nor vnderstand for the knowledge of them can be no way profitable and may perchance be some way hurtfull BER If the deuill can doe that which this Marcus sayeth perchance Lactantius Firmianus tooke thence occasion to vvrite that folly of his saying that the authority of Genesis vvhich saith As the sonnes of GOD sawe the daughters of men which were beautifull they tooke them for wiues and had children by them is vnderstood by the Angels vvhom God held heere in the world so that he attributeth to thē bodies with which they conuersed with women and begot chyldren AN. Truly you may rightly terme it his folly for there cannot be a greater as both S. Thomas all the other Docters of Theologie affirme vnderstanding by the sons of God men that serued him walked in the way of righteousnes by the sons of men those that followed their owne lusts and pleasures not regarding that which they ought to doe for it were absurd to thinke that the Angels should pollute themselues with such filthines as the deuils doe who also doe it not because they therin receiue delight but because of the sin and and offence which they therin make men to commit ioyntly with them for they cannot in truth howsoeuer they fashion their bodies exercise any vitall operation though there want not some who say that the deuils come to be enamoured of women pursue them in loue with lust and desire but I esteem this to be a meere mockery for it the deuill at any time make a shew of loue the same is dissembled that which he only seeks is the destruction of the soule without hauing any other respect for verification of which I will tell you what I saw in the Iland of Cerdinia in the citie of Caliar where at that instant was handled the inquisition of certaine Witches vvho they said had confederation did cōmunicate with those of Fraunce Nauarre of which many not long before had bin sought out punished at that very time there was a beautifull young mayden of the age of 17. or 18. yeres old apprehended accused to haue acquaintance and fleshly conuersation with the deuill brought to the same by the allurements and entisements of one of these Witches The deuill vsed oftentimes to resort vnto her in the likenes of one of the most beautifull young gentlemen in the world vsing so sweete and comely behauiour that the poore wench became so vehemently enamoured and so deepely inflamed in his loue that of all worldly felicities she accounted his company to be the greatest but he when he saw his time and thought her to be sure enough his tooke such order that the matter was discouered and the mayden taken who persisted so obstinatelie against the perswasions of those that willed her to repent to craue mercy that it was wonderfull thinking surelie that the deuill woulde helpe her as he had promised perseuering in such ardant loue and affection towardes him that with her passionate speeches she amazed and moued to pitty those that heard her speake and for conclusion willingly suffered herselfe to be put aliue into the fire and burnt still in vaine reclaiming the promised assistance of her abhominable Louer loosing thereby both her body and soule which so easily shee might haue saued in dying Christianlike and taking patientlie with repentance her bodily death in this world LU. Trulie her end was most pittifull and lamentable yet farre better did another of which I haue heard beeing lykewise a young mayden rich beautifull of good parentage who with extreame and vehement affection became to be inamoured of a young Gentleman liuing in the same Tovvne where shee remained but for her reputations sake she couered so warily this secrete feruent affection of hers that it was neyther perceaued of the Gentleman himselfe nor of any man else the deuill onely excepted who seeing occasion offered whereby as he thought to procure her damnation tooke vpon him the likenes habite and gesture of the Gentleman offring vnto her his seruice and loue with such artificiall perswasions that after solemne promise of marriage he came to haue the vse of her body to which otherwise her chast desire woulde neuer haue consented after which hee frequented many nights her companie lying in naked bedde with her as if hee had beene indeede the Gentleman vvhose shape he tooke vpon him and with whose loue the mayden was so ardently enflamed In this manner passed ouer manie monthes the deuill alwaies perswading her not to sende him any messages because it was for some respects conuenient to keepe the matter for a while secret withall that she should not conceaue any vnkindnesse if seeing her in publique hee vsed no outward semblance of loue towards her aduising her also to vse in all poynts the like strangenesse towardes him preuenting heereby the inconuenience that might haue hapned if she should haue found herselfe in company with the supposed Gentleman The matter continuing thus it fell out that the Mother of this mayden gaue vnto her a booke of deuout prayers to read which she often perusing the deuill had no more power at all to come in place where she was nor to abuse her any longer because she ware the same continuallie about her necke Whereupon at the end of three Moneths shee wondring much at his absence and withall hearing that he I meane the supposed Gentleman courted another Gentlewoman entring into a most vnpatient iealousie shee sent him one day word that by any meanes he should com speak with her about a matter most important The Gentleman without vnderstanding the cause beeing full of curtesie and good behauiour awayting a time when her mother was out came and founde her alone and after hauing curteously saluted her demaunded what her pleasure was The mayden seeing him speake as one that scarcely knewe her bathing her face with teares in wordes full of griefe complayned of his strangenesse and forgetfulnesse asking him for what demerite of hers he had left her so long vnuisited The Gentleman astonished at this manner of speech aunswered her as a man amazed and vtterlie ignorant of her meaning whereupon kindled with exceeding choller shee began to threaten him that seeing he had despoyled her of that which she held dearest that he should not now thinke to cast her of and that if he would not of his owne accord accomplish the promise of marriage vvhich he had vowed vnto her shee would besides her complaints to God and the world
bee a bondslaue and such a one mee thinkes may with reason say that his Destenie placed him in that seruitude and bondage because hee came not there-vnto by his owne will neyther could hee by any meanes auoy de the same but would by any meanes seeke and procure his freedome if there were anie possibility thereof AN. This obiection may many wayes be aunswered the one is that it was no Accident or Chaunce that happened to this man to serue as a bondslaue because hee was begotten and borne in seruitude and besides there is no impossibility of recouering his liberty for euery day wee see happen sondry newe occasions whereby a slaue may be manumitted and sette free if then it be possible it followeth that there is no forcible Desteny if you will say that it was an accident in his Auncestors to fall into bondage to the end that this man should be borne a slaue I aunswere that it was in their choise and free-will because they might haue gone some whether else and haue refrained that place in which they stood in danger hazard to be made Captiues so that he cannot lay the fault vpon his Destenie but vpon those that might haue remedied the same and did not LU. You leaue me not well satisfied heerein for if I loose perforce my liberty neyther euer was it neyther now is it in my hand to remedy the same neyther am I hee that was any way the occasion thereof I may well say it vvas my Destenie and consequently vvith reason complayne of the same considering that it vvas not in my povver to auoy de it ANT. All that vvhich is not vnpossible may bee sayde auoy dable and if at anie tyme while one remaineth in bondage occasions may happen to recouer his freedome he can by no meanes say that his Destenie forcibly with-holdeth his liberty for though he want it against his will yet hee wanteth it not with impossibility of euer hauing it if he vse such meanes and industry as is requisite for the obtaining thereof For example we see daily manie slaues runne from their Maisters and set themselues at liberty not onely heere with vs but also such as are in captiuitie vnder the Mores and Turkes and if the enterprize which any such one vndertaketh for his liberty succeede not according to his intent it is because hee procured it not in such as was requisite or because it pleased not God to permit his deliuerie for his sinnes and demerrites or some other cause to vs hidden and vnknowne BER Thinke not that you haue here made an end for the principall poynt as yet remaineth If you remember you said that many of the Auncients held opinion that the causes of Desteny working with such necessity proceeded from the second superior caelestiall causes as the influence of the Planets and starres I pray you therefore make vs to vnderstand what is the force of the constellations and in what sort theyr influence worketh as well in vs as in other things for the cōmon opinion is that all things on the earth are gouerned maintained by the Caelestiall bodies whence it commeth that the Astronomers by calculating Natiuities casting figures and other obseruations come to foreknowe and vnderstand many thinges not onely concerning men but also tempests earth-quakes plagues inundations and other such like future calamities AN. It is a thing notorious that the starres haue their influences but not in such sort as the common opinion maintaineth first therfore you must vnderstand that their influence hath no power or force to worke any operation in the soules of men but onely in their bodies the reason whereof is that the soules are farre more noble and of more excellent perfection then the planets and starres so that the constellations being vnto them inferiour in beeing and substance are vnable to worke in them any effect at all That the soules are more noble then the caelestiall bodies S. Thomas proueth in this sort in his Booke against the Gentiles So much more noble saith hee is euery effect as it is neerer in likenes to the cause whence it proceedeth so our soules being liker vnto God then the caelestiall bodies are in beeing Spirits as is the first cause which is God must needs be more excellent then they so that they can haue no influence vnto them nor domination ouer thē the soules remaining alwaies free For though Dionisius sayd that God hath so disposed the whole order of the Vniuerse that all inferior thinges beneath should be gouerned by those that are superior and aboue yet he presently addeth and those that are lesse noble by those that are more noble and though by this reason the soules remaine free yet the bodies doe not so because they are lesse noble then the Sunne the Moone the other heauenly lights and so are subiect to their influences working in them diuers and contrary inclinations some good and some euill which they that seeke to excuse theyr vices and vvicked life call Destenies as though it were not in their power to flie and auoyde them through the libertie of free-will For if we say that Mars doth praedominate in men that are strong and valiant we see that many borne vnder his Planet are timorous and of small courage All those which are borne vnder Venus are not luxurious nor all vnder Iupiter Kings great Princes nor all vnder Mercurie cautelous and craftie neither are all those which are borne vnder the signe of Piscis fishermen and so forth of all the other Signes and Planets in manner that theyr effects are not of force and necessitie but only causing an inclination to those things the which by many wayes and meanes may be disturned altered auoyded chiefely by the disposition and will of the first cause which is God who addeth altereth taketh away at his pleasure the force vigor and influence of those Planets and starres restraining theyr vertue and force or els mouing directing and lightning our minds not to follow those naturall inclinations if they tend to euill and sinister effects The Angels deuils also may doe the same as beeing creatures more noble then the soule the one moouing to good and the other to euill for oftentimes our good Angell is the cause that we refraine those vices to which by the constellation of those heauenly bodies we are inclined and that we follow for our soules profit such waies as are vertuous and good and that wee auoyde those dangers which these influences doe threaten vnto vs. These also may a man of himselfe beware and eschew by discretion and reason for as saith Ptolomie The wise prudent man shall gouerne the starres LVD I confesse all this which you haue said to be true but yet besides the inclinations appetites of men the starres and Planets worke also in another manner as in aduauncing some men and abating others making some prosperous and rich yea
the rest they may sometimes fall out according as by the vertue and property of the signes and planets may be coniectured and iudged yea and sometimes also otherwise because it may please the first cause which imparted vnto them that vertue to change or alter their property or that there may be diuers other causes in the way which may hinder the effect of their influence AN. You haue in few wordes briefly knit vp the very pith and substance of the whole BER Well then let vs leaue this and come to Palmestrers which are they that tell Fortunes by seeing the lines of the inside of the hand whose diuinations they say prooue oftentimes true I would faine therefore know what credite we may giue them AN. I haue great suspition of those who confidently affirme their diuinations by Palmestry that they deale also in Negromancy that the deuill being farre craftier and subtiler then man and through his long experience and by certaine coniectures being able to knowe certaine thinges that are to come doth reueale vnto them the most part of those things for otherwise by the lines of the hand onely it were not possible to diuine so right though somtimes also the things simply thereby coniectured may proue true neyther can the Phisiognomers affirme that the same must needs be true which by their Science appeareth likely to happen For Aristotle which wrote a booke of Phisiognomy entreating of all the signes marks by which the conditions of men may be knowne sayeth that they are but casuall and by Chaunce As for those that seeing the Phisiognomy of a man doe iudge that he must come to be rich or that his end must be the Gallowes or that hee must be drowned and such like such must thinke that they be deceaued and ought therefore to reserue the successes of all thinges to the will of God whereby they may couer their error and remaine excused if the sequell fall otherwise out then they coniectured it should LU. This matter seemeth sufficiently debated of onely out of the former discourse resulteth one doubt which mee thinks were against reason that it should remaine so smothered vp and that is of the speech of Signior Anthonios where he sayd that of the influence of the signes planets and starres are engendered pestilences and new diseases inundations destroying vvhole Countries long drinesse vvhich causeth dearths infirmities scarsity of corne fruit with diuers other the like AN. This is a question in which the Astronomers and Philosophers doe disagree eyther holding of them their seuerall opinions For the Astronomers in community doe hold and affirme that all this which you haue said proceedeth from the constellations and that through their causes these domages do happen vnto men all the other euils also with the which we are afflicted alleadging for the proofe thereof the authority of Ptolome in his Centiloquium The man sayth he that is skilfull in the Science of Astronomy may fore see and auoide many euils to happen according to that which the starres doe shew portend and also they alleadge Gallen in his third book of Iudiciall daies whose words are these Let vs saith hee imagine that a man is borne the good Planets being in Aries and the euill in Taurus there is no doubt to be made but all thinges shall goe prosperously with this man while the Moone shall be in Aries Cancer Libra or Capricornus but when she shall possesse any signe in Quadrat aspect or in Diameter to the signe of Taurus he shall be molested with many troubles and vexations and hee goeth farther and sayth that this man shall begin to be perplexed with many infirmities when so euer the Moone shall be in the signes of Taurus Leo Scorpio or Aquarius and contrarily shall enioy perfect good health while the Moone shall be in the signes of Aries Libra Cancer or Capricornus They recite besides another authority of Auicenna in his fourth booke where he saith the configuration of the caelestiall bodies to be sometimes the cause of pestilentiall infirmities as when Saturne and Mars are in coniunction And so doth Gentil exemplifie it alleaging the selfe same place but what should I trouble my selfe in reciting their authorities when finally there is no Astronomer or Phisition which holdeth not the same but the Philosophers as I haue said maintaine a contrary opinion affirming that no domage or euil can proceede from the Planets signes or starres into the inferiour bodies and so diuine Plato in his Epynomide I surely thinke saith he the starres and all the caelestiall bodies to be a kinde of diuine creatures of a very beautifull body and constituted with a soule most perfect and blessed and to these creatures as farre as I vnderstand must be attributed one of these two things eyther that they and their motions are eternall and without any domageable preiudice or if not yet at the least that their life is so long that it is not necessary for them to haue any longer These are the words of Plato by the which is vnderstood that if the Caelestiall bodies haue no euill in them as beeing diuine pure cleane and sempiternall without any preiudiciall domage and free from all corruption and euill they can then by no means be causers of those domages euils which happen in the world to the inferior bodies Going on farther in the same booke This is sayth he the nature of the stars in sight most beautiful goodly in their moouings obseruing a most magnificent order imparting to inferiour creatures such things as are profitable for them By these authorities they inferre that seeing the starres are of such excellencie and that from them are imparted to creatures things profitable and wholesome they can by no meanes be the occasion of harme or mischiefe theyr nature office which they continuallie vse being contrarie thereunto But farther the same Author goeth on declaring the same more plainly Finally saith hee of all these thinges we may inferre this as a true and conclusiue opinion that it were vnpossible for the heauen the Planets the starres and the caelestiall bodies which appeare therein vnlesse they had a soule or vnlesse they dyd it through God by some exquisite reason to be able to reuolue the yeeres monthes dayes beeing the cause of all our good and so being of our good they cannot be of our euill And this explaneth Calcidiê° vpon the same Plato in his Tymaeus by these words Either sayth he all the starres are diuine and good without doing any euill or some of theÌ„ onely are euill and domageable But howe can this agree or howe can it be said that in a place so holy and so full of all bounty and goodnes there can be any euill And the starres beeing replenished with caelestiall wisedome euilnes and malice proceeding of the contrary which is folly howe can wee then terme the starres to be malicious or causers of any euill
vnlesse we shold say that which is not lawfull that they are at one time good and at another time euill and that they cannot mixtly be the cause both of good and euill the which is not to be thought or beleeued that all the starres haue not one selfe caelestiall substance none of them separating themselues from theyr owne nature so that all the starres beeing good they may be the cause of good but not of euill BE. These authorities me thinks conclude not throughlie the purpose of their intention for there are manie thinges that can cause both good and euill and therefore the caelestiall bodies also may doe the same AN. This is when there is in any thing both good euill working effects according to the nature thereof but there is no euill in the heauens not in any thing therein contained for according to Aristotle in his seconde Booke De Coelo the motion thereof is life to all things in the ninth of his Metaphisickes also he affirmeth that in those things which are sempiternall there can be found no euill error or corruption And Auerroes entreating of this matter vseth these wordes It is a thing manifest saith he that in those things which are Eternall and whose essence is without beginning there can be no euill error or corruption the which cannot be in any thing but where euill is and heereby may be knowne the impossibilitie of prouing that which the Astronomers say that there are some of them luckie and others vnluckie this only may be knowne of them that there are som better then others By these words we may vnderstand that the starres are all good but not in equalitie neither haue they all equall vertue goodnes and as in them there is no euill at all so can they not be the cause of any harme at all neither can wee say that their influences cause any contagious or pestilentiall infirmities so thinketh Mercurius Trismegistus in his Asclepius Where the heauen saith he is that which engendreth and if the office thereof be to engender it cannot be to corrupt Proclus in his booke De Anima holdeth the same The Heauens saith hee founded with a harmony in reason containe all worldly thinges putting them in perfection accomodating them and benefiting them which being so how then can they damnifie destroy or corrupt them Auerroes also alleadgeth another reason by the testimonie of Plato who sayth That euill is found in those things which haue no order nor agreement and all diuine thinges are framed and constituted in most excellent order whereby it followeth that the starres and other caelestiall bodies haue no euill in them and hauing none in them they cannot worke or cause any This opinion followeth Iamblicus in his Booke De Misterijs Egiptiorum and Plotinus in his tenth Booke where he demaundeth if the stars be the causes of any thing iesting and scoffing at the Astronomers who affirme that the Planets with their motions are not onely the causes of riches and pouertie but also of vertue vices health and diseases that in diuers times they worke vpon men diuers operations And finally he will by no meanes permit that there are any euill starres or that they can be sometimes good and somtimes euill which opinion is also maintained by Auerroes in his 3. booke of Heauen Where whosoeuer sayth hee beleeueth that Mars or any other planet or starre howsoeuer set in coniunction or opposition can hurt or doe domage he beleeueth that which is contrary to all Philosophy Marcilius Ficinus in his Comentaries vpon the sixth Dialogue of Lawes sayth thus One thing we must vnderstande and beleeue that all forces and mouings of the superior Bodies which discende into vs are of their owne nature alwaies causers of our good and guide vs thereunto wee must not therefore iudge that viciousnes of ill conditioned men proceedeth of Saturne or rashnes and crueltie of Mars or craft and deceit of Mercury or lasciuious wantonnes of Venus Let vs see what reason thou hast to attribute vnto Saturne that frowardnesse and vice which thy euill custome conuersation exercise or dyet hath engendred in thy body or minde or to Mars that fiercenes and crueltie which seemeth to resemble that magnanimitie and greatnes to which he is enclined or to Mercurie that subtiltie and craft called by a better name industrie or to Venus thy lasciuious loue and wantonnesse Hapneth it not often that men loose their sight yea and sometimes their liues vnder the flaming blasts of the Sunne-beames which is ordained onely for our comfort and to giue life and nourishment to things And doe wee not see diuers that in open ayre receaue the warmenesse thereof to theyr comfort who in enclosed places are with a small heate smothered sluft choaked And euen as these men through the heate of the Sun whose nature is to helpe cherrish and comfort doe receaue domage by theyr owne faulte in not vsing the same as they shoulde doe so may the successes of those which are borne vnder these planets which by their nature are al good throgh euil vicious education proue naught though the inclination of their planets be neuer so good and fauourable So that by these wordes of Marsilius the opinion of Astronomers Mathematitians and Phisitions seemeth not to be wel grounded but that how commonly held or allowed soeuer it be he holdeth it to be reprouable by many and euident arguments LU. The Philosophers are not a little beholding to you for strengthning their opinion with so many authorities effectual reasons no doubt but if this matter were put to your arbytrement they should finde of you a fauourable iudge AN. I haue not so good opinion of my selfe as to take vpō me the arbitrement of this matter though it were of lesse substance then it is especially so many wise learned men maintaining either side I haue therfore onely rehearsed touched some of their allegations on both sides leauing you in your choyse to leane vnto that opinion which liketh you best referring alwaies the iudgement therof to those that are of greater learning deeper studie and more grounded wisedome thē my selfe though it seemeth vnto me to be a matter scarcelie determinable considering the varietie of effectuall reasons that may be alleaged of either side LVD For all this I account you halfe partiall and therefore I pray you aunswere mee to one obiection which might be of the Astronomers side opposed the which is thus We see that there are diuers venomous and hurtfull hearbes and manie other Wormes Vermins and Serpents so contagious that they are thorough theyr poysons and infections noisome vnto men yea and often causers of their death And seeing that all inferiour bodies are ruled receauing their forces and vertues from the influence of the heauenly and superior bodies it then seemeth that they should be cause of the domage which is wrought by the
before they heard any newes of his comming yet vniting themselues so well as time permitted them with the ayde of theyr neighbours arming themselues with bowes and arrowes and flying fighting and retiring with incredible swiftnes through the Snowes they disconfited the King and chased him away who in his dayes was accounted a puissant Prince and had triumphed of many warlike Nations Comming out of these Prouinces of Byarmya there is presently another which hee calleth Fynlande of which a great part was according to the Author before named in times past subiect to the King of Norway This Land though very colde yet is in some parts laboured and yeeldeth fruites of all sorts vnto the enhabitants who are in proportion of body mighty and strong and in fight agaynst theyr Enemies of great valour and courage Though the ayre be cold yet it is pure and well tempered in so much that their fishes cutte vp onely and laide in the ayre doe endure many dayes without corrupting In Sommer it rayneth with them very sildome or neuer theyr day is so long that it continueth from the Kalendes of Aprill till the sixth of the Ides of September which is more then fiue moneths and the night againe as much the darknes of which is neuer so great but that you may well see to reade a Letter in the same it is distant from the Aequinoctiall in threescore degrees There are no starres seene from the beginning of May till the beginning of August but onely the Moone which goeth wheeling round about a little aboue the earth resembling a great Oake burning and casting out beames of fire with a brightnesse somewhat dimme and troubled in such sort that it causeth great admiration and astonishment to those that neuer sawe it before and which is more hee sayeth that shee giueth them so light the most part of theyr night though it continue so long and as for that little time in vvhich shee hideth herselfe the brightnesse of the starres is so radyant that they haue lyttle misse of the Moone vvhich starre-light at such time as the Moone shyneth forsaketh them whose brightnesse is the cause that they appeare not though I cannot but beleeue that they appeare alwayes somewhat though not so cleerely at one time as at an other seeing in these our Countries we see them shine neere the Moone though she be at full yea and sometimes at mid-day we see starres very neere the Sunne LV. It is likely that it should be as you say in Byarmya and those other vnknown Countries which are vnder the Pole or neere there abouts and it may be inferred also that the dayes goe encreasing and decreasing till they come to the full length of a halfe yeere for being in this part of fiue moneths they are in some places more and some lesse and seeing it is enhabitable as you say where it endureth fiue moneths it cannot but be better where it is of foure and better then that of three and so consequently of two and one whereby there is no doubt to be made but that the whole Land is enhabitable AN. I told you before that generally the whole Land is enhabited vnlesse it be in some places through some particuler cause and secrete ordinance of Nature As touching the Moone and the manner in which she lightneth those Regions I haue not seene any Author that handleth the same but onely Olaus Magnus though by good reason it seemeth that where the Sunne turneth about the heauens in course and compasse so different from that which hee doth with vs the Moone should doe the like in such sort as wee haue sayde BER By all likelihoode there are many secrete and wonderfull thinges of the nature of this Land hidden from vs as the Eclipse of the Sunne and the Moone which must needes be otherwise then it is heere with vs and therefore the Astronomers should doe well to sift out the verity thereof and to make vs vnderstand the same and withall the reckoning of the moneths and yeeres the computation of which it is likely also that they vse in another sort AN. As for their yeeres the difficulty is small seeing one day and one night doe make a full yeere and as for the deuision of their seasons their day is Sommer and the night is their Winter the moneths perchaunce they deuide according to their own fashion and the effects of their heauen but heerein the Authors giue vs no notice neither maketh it much matter whether we know it or no. LU. That which I wonder most at is how this people can tolerate and endure the bitter and extreame colde of that Clymat the effect of which here with vs though it be not so vehement as that of theirs we see daily before our eyes bringeth many men to theyr end and therefore wee take heede of taking colde as of the most dangerous thing that may be AN. You say true it hapneth so heere indeede oftentimes but you must consider that the force of nature is great which where she createth those things that are most full of difficulty there also createth and ordaineth she remedies and defences against thē as you may before haue vnderstood by the words of Iohn Zyglere but I will giue you another reason then the which in my iudgement nothing can be more euident and plaine which is that to all things the same is proper and naturall in which they are bred and brought vp As for example a man who from his child-hood is accustomed to eate some things that are venomous afterwards though he eate them in great quantitie they hurt him not at all and of this I haue seene the experience my selfe in the like sort a man brought vp in the cold the greater he waxeth the lesse he feeleth the inconuenience thereof so that it commeth in time to be naturall vnto him euen as to the fish to liue in water the Salamander to nourish himselfe in the fire and the Camelion to maintaine himselfe onely by ayre And euen as a Moore of Guyney should hardly fashion his body to endure the colde of these Northeren Landes so likewise one of these men brought into a hote Country would finde as great difficultie in enduring the heat Besides this Nature hath framed the mē of these Regions more sturdie and strong and against the rigour of the weather ordained them warme Caues vnder the earth to harbour themselues in They haue wilde beastes in great quantitie whom they kill of whose skinnes they make them garments turning the hairie side inward Their woods and Forrests are many and great so that in euery place they haue store of fuell to make great fires in fine they vvant no defensiuenes against the cold which is so far from annoying them that they liue in better health many more yeeres then we doe for their ayres are delicate pure preserue them from diseases making theyr complexions more robust and strong lesse apt to griefes
they may hope of them in time to come for if they sit fast without feare they nourish them with great care and diligence as of a noble inclination and deseruing to be cherished but if theyr courage faile or that they shew any demonstration of feare they send them to be brought vp in some barren places farre from them selues AN. I doe not so affirme these things for true that I thinke it deadly sinne not to beleeue them mary they are written by a man so graue and which in the rest of his works vsed such sincerity that truly me thinkes wee should doo him great wrong in not beleeuing him LV. I know not what to say that there should be no more notice in the world of a Country so fruitfull and a people so blessed especially seeing the Portugals haue sayled and discouered all the Coast of Aethiopia and India euen to the very Sunne rising where they haue found so many and so diuers Ilands that it should be almost vnpossible for any such Country to remaine vndiscouered AN. Meruaile not at this for the Portugals as you say haue not stirred out of the Coast of Affrica and India the farthest that they went being to the Iles of Molucco whence such store of spice commeth as for Taprobana Zamorra and Zeilan they are all adioyning Ilands neere to those Coasts but they neuer nauigated into the Ocean foure continuall moneths as these others did LV. You are deceaued heerein for in only Magellans voyage they sailed farther then euer any other Nation did and if there had beene any such miraculous people in the world they should then haue had knowledge of them as well as Pigafeta had of the Pigmees for they did not onely as you know discouer the Sea of Sur passing a Sea where in fiue or sixe moneths they neuer saw any land but also on the other side sailed within few degrees of the Southpole And besides this the 4000. Ilands which they discouered in the Archpelago towards the Sunne rising the most part of which are peopled and according to somes opinion are thought to be on the other side of the earth in none of which any such blessed people haue been found as you speake of AN. Though all this be as you say yet the world is so great and there is in it so much to be discouered that perchaunce they are in those parts which we know not thinges so strange and monstrous that if we saw them would make vs wonder a great deale more and giue vs occasion to bee lesse astonished at the others in respect of which peraduenture we should account these very possible and one day hauing more time we may discourse more particulerly of this matter BER I take this worde of yours for a debt marry I would now aske you which you holde for the greatest wonder in that people eyther their tongue so strangelie deuided that they speake differently and with diuers persons seuerall matters at one time or else in steede of bones to haue onely sinewes doubling their members euery way AN. The first I neuer heard of nor of any the like and therefore of the two I hold it for the stranger but the likelihoode of the second is authorised for true by many vvriters and chiefely by Varro who writeth that in Rome there was a Fencer called Tritamio of such exceeding strength that being bound hand and foot he wrestled with very strong men whom onely with pushing his body from one side to another he gaue such a blow that if he touched them they were in danger of their lyues the like force had a Sonne of his who was a man at Armes vnder Pompey the which without Arms went to fight with his enemy Armed whom taking by one finger he made him yeeld and brought him prisoner to the Campe. It is sayde that these two had not onely their sinewes at length like vnto other men but also thwart and croswise ouer all their whole body whence proceeded this their so miraculous strength There are many incredible thinges reported of the forces and strength of Milo which though they were without doubt supernaturall and miraculous yet were they in the ende the cause of his most miserable and disastrous death for putting his hands into the cleft of a great tree thinking to rent and split it forcibly thorough the same of a suddaine turned backe and closed with such violence catching entrapping and crushing his handes so miserably that beeing not able to pull them foorth and beeing farre from helpe and in a desolate place hee was there forced pittifully to finish his life and vnfortunate strength together cutting vp his body they found that the pipes of his armes and legs were doubled LU. Though the strength of Milo were so famous and renowned as you say yet were there in his time as diuers Authors make mention that exceeded him farre Elian writeth that there was one called Tritormo helde in such admiration for his strength that Milo thinking thereby the greatnesse of his fame to bee diminished and obscured sought him out and challenged him but at such time as they were to enter into combate Tritormo taking vppe a mighty peece of a Rocke so huge that it seemed vnpossible that anie humaine force should mooue it cast it from him three or foure times with such exceeding force and then lifting it vppe on his shoulders carried it so farre that Milo amazed at the strangenesse thereof cryed out O Iupiter and is it possible that thou hast brought an other Hercules into the vvorlde But whether this mans pipe bones were double or single no man knoweth BER I haue heard of some whose bones were whole sounde and massiue vvithout any marrowe in them as diuers vvrite of Ligdamus the Syracusan and that the same is the cause of greater force ANTHONIO I neuer savve any such but Pliny vvryteth thereof in these vvordes vvee vnderstande sayeth hee that there are certayne menne vvhose bones are massiue and firme vvithin in vvhome this one thing is to bee marked that they neyther suffer thyrste nor may at any time sweate As for thirste wee see it voluntarilie suppressed of diuers for there was a Romaine Gentleman called Iulio Uiator who beeing in his youth sicke of a certayne corruption betvveene the fleshe and the skinne was forbidden to drinke by the Phisitians vsing him selfe to which abstinance a vvhile hee kept it in his age without euer drinking any thing at all LUDOUICO This is a matter not to bee lette slippe but in the meane time lette vs returne to that of strength I saye therefore that the forces of Sampsonne were such that if the holy Scripture made not mention of them no manne would beleeue them so that wee maye also giue credite to that which is written of Hercules Theseus and other strong menne that haue beene in the vvorlde whose Histories are so common that it were to no purpose to rehearse them heere AN.
they ouerturne some and that they gette vp also into great ships but as it seemeth not with meaning to doe hurte but onely through nouelty and curiositie to view them and that commonly they keepe together in flocks and companies in maner of an Armie and it hath happened that som of them entring into shyps haue been so amazed that they haue been taken by the Mariners but in finding themselues layde hold on they giue loude and pittifull shrikes making a most hydeous and ilfauoured noyse at which very instant there are heard infinite other the like cryes and howlings in such sort that they make deafe the eares of them that heare them and there appeare so many of theyr heads aboue water as though they were a mightie Armie of many people with the vvhich and with their terrible noyse they make the waues rise so vehemently that is resembleth a furious tempest The which is a token that they goe alwaies together vnlesse it be that some one stray by chance when they perceiue that any of theyr company is taken they make this crying tumult to assault the ship vnlesse the Mariners do presently turne him lose cast him into the Sea againe which beeing done they cease theyr clamour and goe their waies quietly vnder the vvater without doing any farder hurt And therfore that which signior Ludouico saide is not without reason for truely though they be not creatures reasonable yet seeme they to haue farre greater vse thereof then other Fishes haue for as farre as wee can conceaue and iudge that entry of theirs so boldly into the ships is not with any intention to do harme but only to view what is in them and to behold the men whose likenesse they beare And if perchance they ouerturne any little vessel such as are Cockboats or Skiffes it is through their heauy weight and not through any will to doe mischiefe But let vs refer this to th' Almightie who onely knoweth the truth of that which we gesse at by coniecture BER I would that you knewe afore we passe any farder a common opinion which is helde in the kingdome of Galicia of a certaine race of men whom they call Marini the which as it is affirmed for matter most assured and they themselues deny not but make their boast thereof are discended from one of these Tritons or Seamen vvhich though beeing a thing very ancient is tolde in diuers sorts yet they come all to conclude that a certaine vvoman going along the Sea-shore vvas surprised and taken by one of these Tritons that lay embusht in a tuffet of Trees and by force constrayned to yeelde vnto his lustlie desire after the accomplishment of which he withdrew himselfe into the water returning often to the same place to seeke this woman but at last perceauing that his vsuall repayre thither was descried and that there was waite layd to take him he appeared no more It pleased God to permitte this woman from the time of that acquaintance with the Triton to conceaue child which though at the time of her deliuery proued to be in each poynt like vnto other children yet by his strange appetites desires and infinite other signes and tokens it was most euident and manifest that it was begotten by the same Triton or Seaman This matter is so ancient that I meruaile not though it be told after diuers sorts seeing there is no Author that writeth it neyther any other testimonie thereof then onelie the common and publique fame which hath spred and published it LU. One poynt herein me thinks by the way is rather to be helde for a fable then to bee credited for though it were that Nature through any such copulation should suffer some thing to be engendered yet should the same be a monster not a man capable of reason as you say this was for hence would arise two no small inconueniences the one that there should be men in the worlde whose beginning shoulde not discend from our first Parents Adam and Eue for this Triton neyther is neyther can bee accounted a reasonable man and of the posteritie of Adam in like sort neither his sonne nor those that shall discend of him the other is to gaine-saie the generall rule of all Philosophers and Phisitions which resolutely affirme it to be vnpossible that there shoulde be engendered of the seede of a man reasonable and of a creature vnreasonable any creature like to eyther of them perfectlie bearing eyther of both theyr shapes Though put the case that the contrary sometimes happen between a Mare and an Asse a dogge and a Shee-woolfe or a Foxe and a bitch yet the contradiction is not so great these beastes differing so little one from another as the great and vnspeakeable difference vvhich in so manie poynts is betweene men and bruite beastes And though in likenesse and similitude a Seaman resemble a man of reason yet it suffiseth that hee differ onely in reason then the which there can in the world be no greater difference And therefore Galen the Phisition in his third Booke De vsu partium in scoffing manner iesteth at a certaine Poet called Pindarus because hee affirmed the fable of Centaures to be true BER All that you haue sayde standeth with great reason but I haue alwayes heard that the seede onely of the man is able to engender without any necessity that the vvomans should concurre also of this opinion is Aristotle LVD In thys sort the contradiction is greater for if the seed of the vvoman concurre not in generation of necessity it must ensue that the thing engendered be like the Father and not the mother the contrary whereof is knowen to be true and that both the seede of the male and female concurre in generation which if it were otherwise the generation could not com to effect and thys maintaineth Hipocrates in his booke De Genitura and in that De sterilibus and Galen in his 14. booke De vsu partium AN. Very vvell hath this matter been debated on both sides yet I will not leaue vnaunswered the two inconueniences alleaged by Signior Ludouico as for the first it followeth not that if a woman conceaue a chyld reasonable by a creature vnreasonable that therfore the same child shold not be accounted the ofspring of Adam for it suffiseth that he is on the mothers side without any necessitie that he must be also of the fathers As for the second I confesse that guyding our selues by the ordinary course of Nature the Phylosophers and Phisitions in maintayning the impossibilitie of perfect generation betweene different creatures haue great reason vnlesse that it be in these before mentioned whose fimilitude is such that they seeme to be all of one kinde But we must not so restraine Nature as they doe without hauing regard to the superior cause which is God by whose will it is directed and gouerned and to whom wholy it obeyeth For seeing it is a
thereupon forthwith went vp to the toppe of a high Bridge that crost ouer the same Riuer whence after he had stript himselfe naked he threwe himselfe downe headlong into the vvater the Riuer running in that place verie swift and dangerous where swimming vp and downe in the maine streame he called vpon Tapia by dding him according to his promise doe as much as he had doone who disdayning to seeme eyther of lesse cunning or courage then the other went likewise vp to the top of the Bridge and threvve himselfe downe in the very same place in which the other had so doone before him till which time still remaining fast a sleepe his feete were no sooner in the vvater but hee avvaked presentlie where finding himselfe plunging in midst of the rough streame though he were in a wonderfull feare and amazement yet as well as hee could and with all the possible speede he might he skambled foorth earnestly calling vpon the companion that came thether with him thinking assuredlie that there was a man swimming with him indeed but hauing passed with great difficultie the danger of the stream after long calling and looking about him when hee coulde neyther see nor heare any man make aunswere hee beganne to mistrust that thys matter proceeded by the craftie illusion and deceit of the deuil who as he truly thought endeuoured by that subtile practise and enticement to destroy in his sleep both his body and soule VVherupon recommending him selfe by hartie prayer vnto almightie GOD and going vp againe to that place of the Bridge where hee and his compapanion as he imagined had left their clothes when he found no more then his owne throughly confirming himselfe in the mistrust before conceaued he returned homewardes to his owne house with very great astonishment meeting by the way diuers of his seruaunts who missing him in his chamber and finding the doore of the house vnbolted went seeking him vp and downe to vvhō hee recited from poynt to point all that happened vnto him from which time forward hee vvas lesse troubled with such passions contayning himselfe alwayes in such heedfull sort that the deuill could neuer haue power to deceaue him againe BER Truly this man was in great danger of eternall destruction but GOD is so kind and mercifull that he alwaies succoureth and assisteth all those that in time of necessity and danger recommend themselues with a deuout hart vnto him And therefore truly we had need looke well and carefullie to our selues seeing wee haue so cautelous and craftie and aduersarie continually dressing so manie grinnes trappes to entangle vs and alwaies busie in laying baites and allurements ready to deceaue vs. But seeing it is now very late and the pleasantnes of our discoursing hath made vs passe ouer the time without scarcely thinking of the same I am of opinion that we should doe well to referre this our conuersation and meeting till another time for the satisfaction of some doubts which as yet remaine if it shall please Signior Anthonio to agree thereunto AN. No man better contented there-with then my selfe appoynt therefore what time you thinke good and I will not faile to be ready LU. Let vs then I pray you deferre the same no longer then till to morrowe morning BER I giue you my hand vpon the same AN. And I also giue mine The end of the third Discourse The fourth Discourse in which is contayned what Chaunce Fortune Destenie is and the difference betweene them withall what lucke felicity and happines doth signifie with their contraries and what the influences of the heauenly bodies import and whether they are the causes of diuers mischaunces that happen in the world touching besides manie other learned and curious poynts * Interlocutores ANTHONIO LVDOVICO BERNARDO LV. I Could neuer haue wished to haue come in a better time then now seeing I finde the company together which I so much desired especially in this place and Garden of Signior Bernardos which containeth so great a variety of pleasant Plants Flowers Hearbs and other things worthy of admiration that though we goe not this day out into the fields we may find heere sufficient to recreate and delight our selues AN. I was saying the same euen as you entred and in truth the contemplation of so rare a diuersity of many beautifull things placed in so due and excellent order within so small a plot and compasse of ground may leade vs to the contemplation of him which is the giuer of all beauty and stirre in vs a zeale and desire to be thankfull for his gifts BER The greatest excellencie of my Garden is this commendation which it hath pleased you to giue it otherwise hauing in it no particuler matter woorthy of such praise for I am altogether vncurious hauing onely endeuoured to place in it hearbs necessary and wholsome and flowers that haue some pleasing freshnes gaynesse of colour wherwith to recreate the sight amongst which somtimes when I am solitary I vse to solace my selfe in entertaining time which to the ende that at this present we may the more commodiously passe ouer Let vs sitte downe in this seate vnder this Arke of Iassemin whose shadow will keepe vs from being encombred with the Sunne for though the weather be temperate yet it is good to auoide inconueniences AN. It pleaseth me well to follow your aduise for though the heate generally be comfortable vnto the body of man yet the excesse thereof causeth great infirmities and diseases as daily experience teacheth vs. LU. Seeing wee are nowe so at leasure I pray you let vs knowe what the matter was betweene you and the Lycentiat Sorya this morning in comming out of the Church I would gladly haue drawne neere to haue heard your difference but I was deteined in talke by a Gentleman of my acquaintance about a matter of som importance If it be true which I haue heard say the Licentiat presumeth much and vnderstandeth little AN. He should loose nothing thereby if he did vnderstand somewhat more then he doth yet in his owne conceite he imagineth that he knoweth more then all the world besides though truly he made little shew thereof in the matter of which wee reasoned to day concerning Fortune and Chaunce I beleeue he had newly read the Chapter that Pedro Mexias maketh thereof in his Forrest of Collections for he could say it all by roate hee was so obstinate in affirming that there was no Fortune but onely God that hee would neyther heare reason nor speake reason nor vnderstand any thing that was sayd vnto him BER This is a matter that I haue long desired to vnderstand for in all discourses almost at euery word wee heare Fortune Chaunce good Lucke ill Lucke Hap Mishap and Desteny named and when I sette my selfe to thinke what the effect of these wordes meaneth I conceaue it not but the farther I wade therein the farther I finde my selfe in confusion AN. The vnderstanding of these wordes is
somewhat difficill yet not so much as you make it for they were not inuented without cause or without contayning vnder them a signification which oftentimes is manifested vnto vs by the effect and sequell of such aduentures and chaunces as doe happen vnto vs. LU. It were not amisse in my opinion seeing wee haue happened on a matter so subtile and disputable if we endeuoured to vnderstand what might be sayde as concerning it for wee cannot passe the conuersation of this euening in a matter more pleasant or more necessary to be knowne then this and therefore sir you cannot excuse your selfe to take the paines to satisfie vs in this of which we are so ignorant and contayneth therein so many doubts AN. Though in respect of my small vnderstanding I might iustly excuse my selfe yet I will not refuse to satisfie you in this or any thing else whereto my knowledge and capacity extendeth on condition that you will not binde me any farther or expect more at my handes If I shall erre in any thing lette it remaine onely amongst our selues as in our former conuersations it hath doone for this matter being so farre from my profession I feare mee I shall not bee able to say all that vvere necessarie and behoouefull for the good vnderstanding thereof BER Greater should bee our error in leauing to reape the fruite of your learned conuersation and therefore without losing any more time I pray you deferre it no farther AN. Well to obey you then I will begin according to the common order with the definition of Fortune which Aristotle writing in his second booke De Phisicis Cap. 6. sayeth in this sort It is a thing manifest that Fortune is an accidentall cause in those things which for some purpose are done to some end Vppon the woordes of this Definition all the Phylosophers that haue vvrytten Glosses vppon Aristotle doe spende much time and many reasons vvith great alterations and argumentes the vvhich differing one from an other I vvill forbeare to recite least vvith the rehearsall of them I shoulde confounde your vnderstanding and beginne an endlesse matter I vvill therefore onely say that vvhich in my opinion I iudge fittest for the purpose and most materiall to satisfie your desire for your better vnderstanding I vvill therefore beginne vvith that vvhich in Humanitie is helde and vvritten as concerning Fortune and then vvhat in Phylosophie is thought thereof and lastlie vvhat vvee that are Christians ought to thinke and esteeme in true Diuinitie in deede Touching the first of the Gentiles as they erred the groslyest that might be without all reason and sence in all things concerning their Gods so without any foundation or ground faigned they Fortune to be a Goddesse dominating and hauing power ouer all things as writeth Boetius in his first booke of Consolation so that as well in Rome as in other places they builded and dedicated vnto her temples in which she was worshipped and adored of the which and of the founders of them many Authors make mention as Titus Liuius Pliny Dionisius Halycarnaseus Plutarch and Seneca The Praenestins a people of Italy held and adored her for the chiefest Goddesse and Protectresse of their Common-wealth but omitting this as not making much to the purpose I will tell you the diuers sorts and manners where-with they figured her forth in their temples Some paynted her like a franticke vvoman standing with both her feete vppon a rounde ball others with great wings and no feete giuing thereby to vnderstand that shee neuer stoode firme others fashioned her with a head touching the cloudes and a Scepter in her hand as though shee vniuersally gouerned all things in the world Others sette in her hand Cornucopia or the horne of aboundance shewing thereby that from her we receaue all both our good and euil Some made her of glasse because it is a mettall so easily crazed and broken but the most vsuall manner of painting her was with a wheele in her hand continually turning the same vp downe her eyes being blindfolded and mufled wherby it might appeare that hee which was in the height of all prosperity with one turne of the wheele might easily come vnder and be cast downe and likewise those vnderneath and of base estate might easily be mounted vp into higher degree Others thought it good to picture her like a man and therefore made vnto him a particuler temple Diuers also paynted her sayling by Sea vpon the backe of a great fish carrying the one end of a sayle puffed with a full winde in her hand and the other vnder her feet deciphering as it were thereby the fickle and dangerous estate of Saylers seafarers and hence as I take it proceedeth that common phrase of speech that when any man hath passed great tempest and danger by sea we say Corrio fortuna as though Fortune had medled with the matter Besides these they deuised and figured her forth in many other shapes with a thousand rediculous toyes and imaginations the cause of which diuersitie of formes attributed vnto her was because shee vvas a thing onely imagined and not knowne in the world as vvas Ceres Pallas Venus Diana and their other Goddesses so that they described her by gesse imagination according to the conceits inuentions of their own fancies some of which were passing grosse ridiculous and absurd LU. I haue not seene any picture of Fortune that pleaseth mee better then that in a table of your inuention where you paynt her vvith the wheele of which you spake in her hand holding her eyes betweene open and shut with a most strange and vncertaine aspect placing vnder her feete Iustice and Reason wearied and oppressed in poore ragged and contemptible habites lamenting in sorrowful gesture the iniury they receaue in being held in such captiuity slauery on the one side of Fortune standeth Pleasure and on the other Freewill both beeing pompously attired with rich and beautifull ornaments each of them holding in her hand a sharpe Arming-sworde seeming with angry gesture to threaten them some great mischiefe if they ceased not their complaints I leaue the other particularities thereof but it appeareth well that her effects are better knowne vnto you then they were to diuers of those Auncients AN. That liberty which they had in their imagination may I also haue to describe her properties and conditions seeing she obserueth neither Reason nor Iustice in her actions but oppresseth and banisheth them in a manner out of the world gouerning herselfe by her owne will pleasure without order or agreement as Tully writeth in his booke of Diuination There is nothing sayth he so contrary to Reason Constancie as Fortune and therefore the Ancients termed her by so sundry Names calling her blind franticke variable vnconstant cruell changeable traytresse opiniatre without iudgement besides infinite other foule Epithetes and ignominious names alwaies accusing and condemning her as vvicked light inconstant mutable
and inconsiderate BER This was a gentle Goddesse that would suffer her selfe to be so handled of mortall men because shee did not whatsoeuer they desired conforming herselfe wholy to their inclinations humours and appetites They might by thys haue perceiued that her power was not so great as that which was attributed vnto her AN. When theyr affaires succeeded prosperously then they praysed and adored her vvith great honours and thanksgiuings and endeuoured to please her with great and sumptuous sacrifices and so as I sayd they builded vnto her temples with sundry names and titles according to their good ill successes of which though the greater part was for the prosperous euent of theyr doings yet diuers also were founded and entitled of euill and aduerse fortune in which shee was worshipped with no lesse reuerence then in the others especially of those which feared aduersitie or tribulation growing towards them verily perswading thēselues that the same proceeded frō her and therfore through sacrifice and humble prayers they endeuoured to appease her to the end she might alter change her determination LV. In this manner they made two seuerall Goddesses of prosperous and aduerse fortune for otherwise in allovving her to be but one how being good could she be euill or how being euill could shee be good For that should be expreslie contrary to the opinion of all the old Philosophers who held that the Gods were Gods through theyr vertue and goodnesse as Tully in his nature of the Gods diuine Plato and all the rest of the graue and learned sort BER They dyd in this as diuers Gentils doe now adayes in sundry parts and prouinces of India Maior who as you Signior Anthonio in our discourse three dayes since told vs thought they know the deuill to be the worst and wickedst thing that euer was framed by the hand of God yet doe they make vnto him temples adoring him with great deuotion and solemne sacrifice being asked why they doe so they aunswer that therby they hope to please win and content him to the end hee should not hurt or anoy them LU. This is like that of the old woman which setting candles before all the Images in the church set one also before the deuill which S. Bartholmewe held bound and beeing asked why shee did so she aunsvvered because the Saints shoulde helpe her and the deuill not hurt her AN. Her meaning perchaunce was good and simple deceaued onely through ignorance but returning to our purpose the Gentiles helde and worshipped good and euill Fortune as the onely Goddesse and giuer of all good euill of all aduersity and prosperitie of all successes as vvell fortunate as vnfortunate of riches pouertie glory and miserie and they esteemed of her and named her according to the good and euill effects which she wrought and finally euery one spake of her according to the benefits and domages receaued from her hand Of the one she was loued and of the other feared Emperours Kinges and Princes helde her picture in theyr secrete chambers and withdrawing places recommending themselues and theyr affayres vnto her hoping thereby that all things should betide them according to theyr owne will and desire and lastly as Pliny sayth to onely Fortune gaue they thanks for all such benefites as they receaued and onely Fortune was she that was blamed and of whom they complained if any aduerse chaunce miserie or vexation hapned vnto thē LV. I would faine aske of these Gentils how they knew or wherby they had notice that Fortune was a Goddesse not a God and wherfore they painted her in that sexe hauing neuer seene her neyther yet vnderstood any assured certaintie of her AN. I verily think that none of them could yeeld hereof any reason but that frō the beginning of their Paganisme when they assumpted her into the nūber of their Gods they imagined her according to her name to be of the feminine sex perchance also as Galen saith they painted her in this sort the better to signifie her inconstancie neither was the subtilty of the deuil wanting to confirme the foolish people in their conceaued opinion for entring into the statues idols of fortune he gaue out of thē oftentimes his answers Yet the greatest part of Philosophers did not account Fortune to be a Goddesse but wrote verie differently of her as Aristotle did in this definition which you haue heard wherfore sith we haue hetherto entreated of the vaine erronious opinion of the old Gentils the grossnes where-with the common people suffered themselues to be abused Let vs now see what the Philosophers thought thereof first Aristotle whom in this matter we will chiefely follow termeth Fortune to be an accidentall cause differencing her from naturall essentiall causes which worketh in those things that are done with some purpose and to some effect BER This definition is to me so obscure that I vnderstand now as little thereof as I did before you told it AN. Haue patience and you shall vnderstand it better First therfore for better declaration thereof you must know that there is great difference betweene Fortune and Chaunce for Chaunce is ampler and containeth more then Fortune doth for all that is Fortune may bee called Chaunce but all that is Chaunce may not be called Fortune as according to the fore-said definition it followeth that if Fortune must be in those thinges which are done for some purpose and to some end they must needes be done with some vnderstanding which beeing so then there can be no Fortune in those things which want vnderstanding so that whatsoeuer betideth to Creatures vnreasonable and things sencelesse cannot be termed Fortune but Chaunce for Fortune is only to be vnderstood in things pertayning vnto men whence it commeth that when we see any man in great prosperity we say that Fortune was fauorable vnto him the which we say not of any sencelesse or vnreasonable Creature but rather that such a thing chanced or that by Chaunce such a thing was done the which very fame word as I said may be also applied vnto men and the definition of Chaunce may be the very same which we said of Fortune taking only that clause away for some purpose or to some end and therfore we will say thus Chaunce is an accidentall cause which worketh in things for seeing this words purpose and end cannot be but in the vnderstanding it is manifest that the definition of Chaunce is more generall then that of Fortune because it comprehendeth all thinges that want vnderstanding which to the ende you may the better conceaue I will vse some examples for the plainer and more euident demonstration thereof If a man should goe from hence to Rome with purpose and intention to prouide himselfe of some honest estate or office whereby to liue and in comming thither the Pope giueth him a Bishoprick or a Deanry we may say that he had good Fortune considering that his meaning
there are Antypodes or no neither can it out of his words be gathered what he thinketh thereof LU. What is the meaning of this word Antipodes AN. I will briefely declare it vnto you though mee thinkes you should haue vnderstood the same by that which I haue sayd before Antypodes are they which are on the other part of the world contrary in opposite vnto vs going with their feete against ours so that they which vnderstand it not thinke that they goe with their heads downward whereas they goe in the selfe same sort with their heads as wee doe for the world being round in what part thereof soeuer a man standeth eyther vnder or aboue or on the sides his head standeth vpright towards heauen and his feete directly towards the Center of the earth so that it cannot be saide that the one standeth vpward and an other downward for so the same which wee should say of them they might say of vs meruailing how wee could stay our selues without falling because it should seeme to them that they stand vpward and we downward and the right Antypodes are as I said those which are in contrary and opposite Zones as they of the North-pole to those of the South-pole and we being in this second Zone haue for our Antypodes those of the other second Zone which is on the other side of Torrida Zona but those in Torrida Zona it selfe cannot holde any for theyr right Antypodes but those which are of one side thereof directly to those that are on the other vnder them or aboue them or howe you list to vnderstand it BER I vnderstand you well but we being in this Zone which is round winding as you say about the earth how shall we terme those that are directly vnder vs who by all likelihoods must be onely vpon one side of the world for if there were a line drawne betweene them and vs through the earth the same line should not come to passe through the Center and middle of the earth AN. These the Cosmographers call in a manner Antypodes which in such sort as they haue different places one frō an other so doe they terme them by different names as Perioscaei Etheroscaei and Amphioscaei being Greeke wordes by which their manner of standing is declared and signified Perioscaei are those whose shadowes goe round about and these as you shall heereafter vnderstand cannot bee but those which are vnder the Poles Amphioscaei are those which haue their shadow of both sides towards Aquilo and Auster according as the Sunne is with them Etheroscaei are those which haue their shadow alwayes on one side but what distinction soeuer these words seeme to make yet Antypodes is common to them all for it is sufficient that they are contrary though not so directly that they writhe not of one side nor other for facility of vnderstanding this take an Orenge or any other round fruite thrust it of all sides full of needles and there you shall see howe the points of the needles are one against another by diuers waies of which those that passe through the sides are as well opposite as those which passe through the very Center and middle of the Orenge But this being a matter so notorious and all men now knowing that the whole world is enhabitable and that the same being round one part must needes be opposite to another it were to no purpose to discourse any farther therein LU. This is no small matter which you say that the whole world is enhabitable for leauing aside that you should say this generality is to be vnderstood that there is in all parts of the world habitation notwithstanding that there are manie Deserts Rocks and Mountaines which for some particuler causes are not enhabited me thinks you can by no meanes say that the two vtmost Zones in which the North South-pole is contained are enhabited seeing the common opinion of all men to the contrary AN. I confesse that all the old Astrologians Cosmographers and Geographers speaking of these two Zones doe terme them vninhabitable the same proceeding as they say through the intollerable rigour and sharpnes of the cold of which they affirme the cause to be because they are farther off from the Sunne then any other part of the earth and so sayth Pliny in the 70. Chapter of his second booke by these words Heauen is the cause of depriuing vs the vse of three parts of the earth which are the three vninhabitable Zones for as that in the midst is through extreame heate not any way habitable so of the two vtmost is the cold vntollerable being perpetually frosen with ice whose whitenes is the onely light they haue so that there is in them a continuall obscurity as for that part which is on the other side of Torrida Zona though it be temperate as ours is yet is it not habitable because there is no way to get into it c. And here-vpon he inferreth that there is no part of the world enhabited nor where people is but onely this Zone or part of the earth in which wee are an opinion truly for so graue an Author farre from reason and vnderstanding That therfore which I intend euidently to make manifest vnto you is that they were not onely deceaued in those Zones wherein eyther Pole is contayned but in Torrida Zona also for as this is found not to be so vntemperate nor the heate and Ardor so raging as they supposed so also is the cold of the Polar Zones nothing so rigorous and sharpe as they described it but sufferable and very well to be endured and enhabited as by proofe we find that all those cold Regions are peopled But the Auncients are to be excused who though they were great Cosmographers and Geographers yet they neuer knew nor discouered so much of the earth as the Modernes haue done which by painefull and industrious Nauigation haue discouered many Regions Countries and Prouinces before vnknowne not onely in the Occidentall Indies the which wee will leaue apart but in the Orientall also and in the farre partes of the Septentrion for proofe whereof reade Ptolome which is the most esteemed Geographer and to whom is giuen in those thinges which he wrote the greatest credite and you shall finde that hee confesseth himselfe to be ignorant of many Countries nowe discouered which he termeth vnknowne and vnfound Landes saying That the first part of Europe beginneth in the Iland of Hybernia whereas there are many other farther North that enter also into Europe and also a great quantity of firme Land which is on the same part towards the North-pole where he might haue taken his beginning and in his eight Table of Europe speaking of Sarmacia Europaea hee sayeth that there lyeth of the one side thereof a Country vnknowne and in his second Table of Asia entreating of Sarmacia Asiatica hee sayth the same not acknowledging for discouered
be chosen but that he beeing naturall of Gothland had seene a great part of these Septentrionall Countries seeing hee is able to giue so good and perfect notice of them Onely this one thing now remaineth to tell you which is that you must vnderstand that the very same which we haue heere discoursed of of Lands and Prouinces vnder the North-pole is and in the very selfe same manner in those which are vnder the South-pole and that in as much as pertaineth to the Heauen they differ nothing at all and verie little in that of the earth neyther can they chuse but haue there some other winde like vnto * Circius seeing the Snowe Ise and cold is there in such extreamity as by experience they found which went the voyage with Magellane who according to those that write of him his voyage was within 75. degrees of the Pole before he came to finde and discouer the straight to passe into the Sea of Sur but he entreateth nothing of the encrease and decrease of the dayes and nights the cause why I vnderstande not it beeing a thing of so great admiration that I vvonder why the Chronaclers make no mention thereof seeing they could not chuse but haue notice thereof both by the relation of those that then accompanied him in his voyage and of others that haue since attempted to discouer those parts beeing prohibited to passe any farther through the extreamitie of the cold who foūd in those parts men of monstrous greatnes such as I saide were found neere to the Pole Artick But this by the way I will not omit to tell you that the snowe which was founde on the toppes of Mountaines there vvas not white as it is in the Septentrionall Lands but blewish and of a colour like the skie of which secrete there is no other reason to be giuen then onely that it pleaseth Nature to haue it so There are also many other strange things as birds beasts herbes plants so farre different from these which we haue that they mooue great admiration to the beholders of them And if those parts were well discouered perchance also after the passing ouer of these cold Regions so difficile to be enhabited through the rigor of the Snow and Ise there might be found other Countries as temperate as that of the superiour Byarmia of which we spake before But let this happen when it shall please God in the meane time let vs content our selues with the knowledge of that which in our age is discouered knowne BER We should be greatly beholding to you if it should please you to prosecute your begunne discourse for no doubt where the course of the Sunne Moone and Starres is so diuers there cannot chuse but bee many other things also rare strange and worthy to be knowne AN. It pleaseth me well to giue you this contentment so that you will referre it till to morrow for it is now late and draweth neere supper time LVD Let it be as you please for to say the truth it is now time to retire our selues The end of the fifth Discourse The sixth Discourse entreating of sundry thinges that are in the Septentrionall Landes worthy of admiration Interlocutores ANTHONIO LUDOVICO BERNARDO AN. YOV may see that there wanteth in me no desire to doe you seruice seeing I came first hether to renewe our yesterdayes conuersation and to accomplish my worde and promise LVD Your courtesies towardes vs are many and this not the least of all seeing we hope at thys present to vnderstand the particularities of that delightful discourse which yesterday you began with promise to end the same to day BER It vvere good that wee sate downe vnder the shadovve of these sweete Eglantines and Iassemynes wherby we shall not onely receaue the pleasant sauour which they yeelde but shall haue our eares also filled with delight in hearing the Nightingales recorde their sweete and delectable notes to which in my iudgement the curious forced melody of many Musitians is nothing to be compared LU. No doubt but of all Birdes their singing is most delightfull if it continued the whole yeere but as theyr amorous desire ceaseth so ceaseth also theyr harmonie whereas the songe of other Birdes endureth the whole yere thorough BER They perchaunce account it needelesse to rechaunt theyr melodious tunes and sweete harmonie but at such time as the the pryde and gaietie of the season entertaineth them in loue and iealousie cheerefully with mutuall sweetnesse reioycing one another and each mate vnderstanding others call LUD According to thys you will haue the Birdes to vnderstand one another BER There is no doubt but they doe for euen as the Beastes knowe the voyce one of another assembling themselues together by theyr bellowing and braying euen so doe they vnderstande the chyrping and peeping one of another calling themselues thereby together into showles and flocks ANT. Nay vvhich is more strange they doe not onely vnderstand one another among themselues but sometimes also they are vnderstoode as it is written of men of which number Apolonius Tyaneus was one LUD That certainlie seemeth vnto mee a thing vnpossible ANT. Well yet I will not sticke to let you vnderstande what I haue read concerning this matter and you shall find the same written in his life Apollonius disporting himselfe one day in the fieldes vnder the shadow of certaine trees as wee doe at this present there setled ouer his head a Sparrow chirping and chyttering to other Sparrowes that were vpon the same trees the which altogether beganne to make a great chyrping a noyse and to take theyr flight speedilie towards the Cittie whereupon Apollonius bursting into a great laughter and beeing by his companions earnestly intreated to declare the cause thereof vnto them he saide that the same Sparrow that came alone had brought newes to the rest that a Myller comming on the high way towardes the Towne with a burden of Corne charged vppon his Asses backe had by chaunce let one of his sackes fall the stringes whereof breaking the Corne fell out which the Myller coulde not so cleane scrape vp and gather together againe but that a great deale thereof remayned tumbled in the dust which was the cause of the great myrth that the other byrdes demeaned who in thanking him for his good newes flewe away with hym to eate theyr part of the same Corne. His companions hearing this smyled thereat thinking it to be but a iest till in returning to the Towne they found the place where the sack had been broken the Sparrowes scraping verie busilie about the same LV. Apolonius was a man of great wisdom knowledge but I rather think that he deuined this matter by some other meanes for it seemeth hard to beleeue that birds should haue any language wherwith they should so particulerly expresse their meaning vnlesse it be certain generall notes by which each kind knoweth and calleth theyr semblable for in thinking
continually hearde so great hideous a noyse that no man dareth to approch neer it by three or foure leagues The shyppes keepe alwayes a loofe of fearing and flying that Coast as death it selfe There is seene amongst those trees such an abundance of great black fowles that they seeme in a manner to couer them who rysing vp into the ayre doe make so great a clowde that they obscure in a manner the cleerenesse of the Sunne theyr crying or rather roring is so horrible and fearefull that such as heare them though verie farre of are constrayned to stoppe theyr eares They neuer flie out of the precincts of thys Iland the same beeing alwayes shadowed with a kinde of obscuritie in manner like a Clowde diuersifying it froÌ„ the Land neere vnto it Some saith he doe affirme this Mountaine to be a part of Hell where the condemned soules are tormented vvhich opinion though it bee ridiculous yet the propertie of this Mountaine is strange and in the cause thereof some hidden mysterie which we comprehend not BER These are matters the secrecie of whose causes are not to be sifted out like vnto that of the Mountaines of Angernamia one of the farthest of those Northerne Prouinces which are so high that they are seene a farre of by those that sayle on the Bothnycke Sea and by them with great care and diligence auoyded through a wonderfull secret in them contayned which causeth a noyse so hideous violent feareful and full of astonishment that it is heard many leagues of and if that by force of tempest driuen or otherwise through ignoraunce vnwitting any ship passeth neere thereunto the horror thereof is so great that many die presently through the penetrating sharpnes and vntollerable violence of the same many remaine euer after deafe or diseased and out of theyr wits Neyther are they that trauaile by Land lesse carefull in auoyding these Mountaines Once certaine young men of great courage beeing curious to discouer the cause heereof stopping theyr eares as artificially as they coulde deuise attempted in little Boates to rowe neere these mountaines and to view the particularities of them but they all perrished in that attempt by theyr desastre leauing an example and warning to others not to hazard themselues in like danger That which we may hereafter imagine is that there are some clefts or Caues within the Rocks of these Mountaines and that the flowing and ebbing of the water striuing with the wind and hauing no aspyration out causeth that fearefull rumbling and hideous noyse and this is vnderstood because the greater the tempest is at Sea the greater is the noyse in those Mountains the same being in calme and milde weather nothing so loude and violent Of these mountains Vincentiê° maketh mention in his glasse of Histories though he write not so particulerlie of them as some moderne Authors doe which affirme that they haue seene them LV. Me thinks this place is as perrillous as that of Charibdis and rather more considering the sharpnes and terror of the noyse which penetrateth so farre and in my iudgement the flowing and ebbing of the water should draw vnto it the shippes and make them perrish though you made therof no mention AN. It seemeth vnto me that you also haue read these Authors which treat of the Septentrional Countries seeing it commeth now to purpose I will tell you one no lesse admirable then the rest which is that in a citty called Viurgo neere the prouince of Muscouia there is a Caue called Esmelen of so secret a vertue that no man hath hetherto been able to comprehend the mistery and cause thereof which is that casting any quicke beast into the same there issueth out presently a sound so terrible as though 3000. great Canons were discharged and shot off together the effect of which is such that the hearers thereof if they haue not their eares very well stopt closed do fall presently down depriued of all feeling sence like dead men out of which mortall traunce som neuer reuiue some do but froÌ„ that time forward so long as they liue they detaine som defect or other The greater the beast is that is throwne thereinto the greater is the noyse and roaring that resoundeth out This Caue is compast about with a verie strong wall and the mouth thereof shut vp with a mightie strong doore hauing many Lockes of vvhich the Gouernour hath one Key in his keeping and the rest of the Magistrates each of them a seuerall least otherwise some desastre might fall out by which the Citty might come to be dispeopled which though it be very strong both of walles and Ramparts yet the greatest strength thereof consisteth in the Caue neyther is there any enemy so mightie or puissant that dareth to besiege it hauing before his eyes the ruine of great Armies that haue attempted the same before by which after the Citty was brought into some extreamitie the Cittizens bethinking themselues of the propertie of the Caue coÌ„maunded by publique proclamation all those of the towne to stop theyr eares and one night vnawares to the enemie they cast into the Caue a great number of liuing beasts vpon vvhich there presently issued forth such a hideous infernall noyse and the violence thereof strooke such amazement into the enemies that some fell downe in a traunce and others throwing away theyr Armes fledde out of theyr Cabbines trenches the most confusedly that might bee and withall to encrease theyr misery the Cittizens issuing out massacred the greater part of them by that meanes deliuering theyr Cittie from seruitude And though they could not but receaue som inconuenience through the horrour of that hellish noyse though theyr eares were neuer so well closed yet through the ioy of theyr victory and recouered libertie they made small account of the same since which time all the borderers there abouts fearing the effect of theyr Caue doe liue in league amitie with them BER In truth this is a matter of great admiration and such that though diuers very great secretes both of heauen and earth are comprehended yet the curiositie of no wit how perfect soeuer can reach to giue heereof anie reason LVD Let vs leaue these secrets to him that made them whose will perchance is to conceale theyr causes froÌ„ vs. AN. You say well and in truth the more wee should beat our wits about them the lesse we should be able to vnderstand them it suffiseth therefore for vs to knowe that these are the secrete and wonderfull workes of God shewen by Nature the vnderstanding whereof is aboue our reach and capacitie But to follow on our discourse of the wonders of this Countrey you shal vnderstand that in those standing waters frozen Lakes of which wee spake before the ayre remaineth oftentimes shut in and inclosed the which moouing it selfe and running vp down vnder the Ise seeking vent causeth such roring and noyse that it were able to amaze
women of Egipt are so fruitefull that they haue often 3. or 4. children at a burden and though he expresseth not so much yet we must imagine that many of them liue and doe well or otherwise hee would neuer make so often mention of them In this our Spayne we haue often seene a woman deliuered of three children at once and one in a Village not far hence of 4. and in Medina del campo some yeres passed it was publiquely reported that a certain principal woman was brought a bed of 7. at once and it is said that a Bookebinders wife of Salamanca was deliuered of 9. and we must thinke that in other Countries haue hapned the like of as great greater admiration though we as they say being in one ende of the world haue had no notice nor knowledge of them LV. Plinie saith it is certaine that sixe children may be borne at one birth which is most strange vnlesse it be in Egypt where the women bring sildome one alone into the worlde In Ostia there was a woman that had at one burden two sonnes and two daughters all liuing and doing well Besides in Peloponeso a woman was 4 times deliuered each time of 5. sonnes the most part of which liued Trogus Pompeius writing of the Egiptian women saith that they are often deliuered of 7. sons at once of which some are Hermophrodits Also Paulus the Lawyer writeth that there was brought from Alexandria to Adrian the Emperor a woman to be seene which had fiue liuing children 4. of the which were borne in one day the 5. foure daies after the deliuery of the first Iulius Capitolinus writeth the like of a woman deliuered of 5. sons in the time of Anth. Pius so that the matter which signior Bernardo rehersed of the woman with 3. liuing children is not so newe nor strange Besides it is coÌ„firmed with the publique fame of that which hapned to a lady one of the greatest of this land which being in trauaile it was told her husband that she was deliuered of one son within a little space of one more within few houres they told him that shee had brought him forth 4. more which were 6. in all who answered merily to those that brought him the newes if you can wring her well I warrant you qd hee you shal get more out of her This is no fable but a matter known to be true AN. Seeing we are falne into the discourse of prodigious births I can by no means passe ouer with silence that which Nicholaus de florentia writeth alledging the authority of Auicenna in Nono de animalibus that a woman miscaried at one time of 70. proportioned children the same author alledgeth Albertê° Magnê° which said that a certaine Phisition told him for assured trueth that beeing sent for into Almaigne to cure a gentlewoman hee sawe her deliuered of a 150. children wrapt all in a net each of them so great as ones little finger all borne aliue proporcioned I know well that these thinges are almost incredible to those which haue not seene theÌ„ yet is this one thing so notorious wel known that it coÌ„firmeth the possibility of the rest though it be far more admirable then any of theÌ„ all That which hapned to the lady Margaret of Holland which brought forth at one burden 306. children all liuing about the bignes of little mise which were christned by the hands of a Bishop in a bason or vessel of siluer which as yet for memory remaineth in a Church of the same Prouince the which our most victorious Emperor Charles the fift hath had in his hands this is affirmed to be true by many and graue witnesses Sundry authors write hereof especially Henricus Huceburgensis Baptista Fulgoso Lodo. Viues which saith that the cause of this monstrous birth was the curse of a poore woman which coÌ„ming to the gates of this great Lady to demaund almes in steede of bestowing her charity she reuiled taunted her reprochfully calling her naughty pack asking her how many fathers shee had for her children wherat the poore woman taking griefe beseeched God on her knees to send vnto this Lady so many children at a burden that she might be able neyther to know theÌ„ nor to nourish them BE. I think there neuer was the like of this seene or heard of in the world and truly herein Nature exceeded much her accustomed limites the iudgment thereof let vs referre to the Almightie who suffered permitted her to conceaue so many creatures which seeing it comes so well to purpose I will tell you what I haue heard of som men of credit such as wold not report any vntruth which is that in the kingdom of Naples or in diuers places therof the childbirth is passing dangerous to the Mothers because there issueth out before the childe appeare a little beast of the fashion bignes of a little frog or little toade and somtimes 2. or 3. at once if any of the which through negligence come to touch the grounde they hold it for a rule infallible that the woman which is in trauaile dieth presently which because so soone as it coÌ„meth out of the wombe it creepeth that swiftly they haue the bed stopt round about besides the ground wals so couered that it cannot by any means com to tuoch the earth besides they haue alwaies ready a bason of water wherein they presently put those litle beasts couering it so close that they cannot get out carry theÌ„ therin to some riuer or to the sea wherein to auoide the danger they cast theÌ„ and though I haue not seen any Author which writ so much yet all those that haue been in those countries confirme the same so that there is no doubt to be made thereof but that it is as true as strange and though it may seeme that I vse some digression froÌ„ the matter yet me thinks that it is not amisse that we should vnderstand what Aristotle writeth in his 3. booke de animalibus of a he Goat which as it seemed was euen ready to coÌ„ceaue if nature would haue giuen him therto any place for he had teates like vnto the femals great full of milk so that they milked him it came froÌ„ him in such quantity that they made cheese thereof AN. Meruaile not much at this for if you read the booke which Andreas Mateolus of Siena made de epistolis medecinalibus you shal find that he saith hee saw himselfe in Bohemia 3. of the same sort of the which hee himselfe had one for his proper vse whose milke he found by experience to bee the best medicine of all for those which were troubled with the Apoplexy or falling sicknes BER There must be some cause for which Nature in such a thing as this exceeded her accustomed order and perchance it was to bring a
remedy for a disease so vneurable as this is accounted to be LU. Seeing we are in thys discourse of byrthes it were not amisse that we knewe in what space a woman may beare child so that the same may liue and be accounted lawful AN. This matter hath been handled by many authors which giue vs light herein The Lawiers say that in the 7 month taking therof some dayes away and in the tenth month likewise the birth may be called lawfull as one of their digests beginning septimo mense and diuers other declareth and Iustinianus in his Autentick of restitutions The Philosophers and Phisitions debate thereof more at large Pliny sayeth that the child borne in the eighth moneth may liue which is directly against the experience we haue and the opinion we generally hold thereof for we see that those children doe not liue which are borne in the seauenth moneth vnlesse they are borne iust at the time complet hee holdeth besides that the birth of eleuen moneths is lawfull and so hee sayeth that the mother of Suillius Rufus was deliuered of him at the end of eleuen moneths Other Philosophers haue held opinion that a woman may goe with child till the thirteenth moneth but to rehearse all their opinions were neuer to make an end he that seeketh to be satisfied heerein may reade Aristotle Aulus Gellius and many more Authors Phisitions which intreate copiously thereof it is sufficient for vs that wee haue said so much in a matter which we haue so sildome occasion to know or vnderstand BER This matter in truth is fitter for Phisitions to discourse of then for vs but in the meane time I would faine know what these Hermophrodites are vvhich I heard Signior Ludouico euen now say were so common to the Aegiptian women LV. This matter is so common that there is scarsely any one ignorant but that there are often children borne with two natures the one of a man the other of a woman though diuers times the one of so slender force and weake that it serueth not for other then to shewe what Nature can doe when she pleaseth but some there are though rare which are as fully puissant in the one nature as in the other of the first sort I knew a married woman my selfe which it was well knowne had also the nature of a man but without any force or effect though in her countenance and iesture there appeared a kind of manlines of the other sort also there are diuers and amongst the rest there was one in Burgos who beeing commaunded to choose whether nature she would exercise the vse of the other being forbidden her vpon paine of death made choise of that of the feminine sort but afterwards being accused that she secretly vsed the other vnder colour therof committed great abhomination she was found guilty and burned AN. I haue heard that there was another the like burned in Seuilia for the selfe same cause but in these parts we hold it for a great wonder that men should haue the nature of vvomen or women of men Yet Pliny alleadgeth the Philosopher Califanes which was with Alexander Magnus in his conquest of the Indies who sayth that amongst the Nasamans there is a people called Androgini who are al Hermophrodites and vse in their embracements without any difference as wel the one nature as the other But we would scarcely beleeue this being so vnlikely were it not confirmed by Aristotle which saith that these Androgins haue the right teate like a man the left with which they nourish their babes like a vvoman BER This matter seemeth vnto me very nevv strange neither doe I remember that euer I heard the like but there are so many things in the vvorld aboue our capacity that I hold it not impossible especially being affirmed for true with the authority of so graue authors though me thinks this Country must needes be very farre from those which are now of late discouered in India LV. I cannot choose but merualie much hereat and I beleeue that it is some influence or constellation or else the property of the Country it selfe which ingendreth the people in such sort as we see other Countries bring forth people of diuers complexions qualities conditions But now seeing we haue so long discoursed of births as wel cōmon natural as vnnatural rare it were not amisse if we said somwhat of such as are prodigious monstrous so far beyond that wonted order and rule of Nature which she is accustomed to obserue AN. It is true that there hath been seene diuers births admirable monstrous which either proceed frō the wil and permission of God in whose hands all things are or els throgh some causes and reasons to vs not reuealed though many of them by coniectures tokens com afterwards to be discouered which though they perfectly cōclude not the demonstration of the true cause yet giue they vs a great liklihood apparance to gesse thereat It is a thing naturall to all children to giue a turn in their mothers belly to come into the world with the head forwards yet this generall rule oftentimes faileth some come forth thwartlong some with their body double neither of the which can liue their body is so crusht and broken the mothers also of such are in exceeding danger Others come to be borne with their feet forward which is also passing dangerous as well for the mother as the child vnlesse they chaunce to come foorth with their armes hanging down close by their sides vvhich if they hold vpward or croswise they crush them or put them out of ioynt so that fevve such liue Of these cam the linage of Agrippas in Rome which is as much to say as Aegrè parti brought forth in paine and cōmonly those that are so borne are held to be vnlucky of short life Some say that Nero was so borne of his mother Agrippina who though he seemed in obtaining the Empire to be fortunate yet in losing it so soon with a death so infamous his end proued him vnfortunate miserable It happeneth also sometimes that the mothers die and that the children by opening their sides are taken out aliue come to liue doe vvell Of these was Scipio Affrican which was therfore the first that was called Caesar another Romaine Gentleman called Manlius as Pliny vvriteth in his seauenth booke BER It is a matter so true notorious that there is no dout to be made therof which we read in the chronicles of Spaine of the birth of Don Sanches Garcia king of Nauarre vvhose mother Donna Ursaca being at a place called Baruban to take her pleasure in the fields vvas by certaine Mores which of a sodaine came thither to spoile and make booty thrust into the body vvith a speare in such sort that the babe vvith which she went great appeared out of the wound as though