Inforce him by any compulsion I cannot perceiue but we burthen him with a maruaylous vntruth notwithstanding it is alwayes graunted that the same fall came by the necessity of Gods appointment but for as much as that necessity tooke not away his owne willingnesse it shall neuer excuse him So that here in rightly appeareth the wonderfull wisedome of God who deriuing his glory determined off before from the grosest of all faults is neyther the cause thereof properly nor doth suffer it to come to passe besides his ordinance He allowed so much as came from him-selfe saying Loe it is good but now forsaking the good it became euill for want of God and in the same forsaking God suffered yet willingly corruption to créepe vnder his ordinance in such wise into the nature of man that his owne will became the cause of that euill act of eating that forbidden fruite Rea. But why did GOD forsake him beeing righteous in his owne sight Rel. Nay rather would I haue thée to shew som reason that should moue God not to forsake him whome he knew it most expedient to leaue Rea. Here agayne dost thou allude to the glory of God but if I might still follow the appetite of reason I should demand why God why such praeposterous meanes doth exact his glory at the hands of his poore creatures Reli. Truly thou maist but I wil take a day to answer thée till such time as the Lord hath called me to sit in commission about the affayres of his secret councell yet if I say he wil be so glorified because it his owne will what then Is ther any fault But take the words of Maister Caluin for thine answer in this case who saith thus The first man fel because the LORD did iudge it expedient why hee so iudged is vnkowne to vs Yet certayne he so iudged for no other reason but because hee sawe that therby the glory of his name should most worthily bee sette forth when thou hearest therefore mention made of the glory of God there thinke of his righteousnesse for it must bee righteous that deserueth praise and let vs rather behold an euident cause of damnation in the corrupt nature of mankind which is nearer to vs then seeke for a hidden and vtterly incomprehensible cause thereof in the secret councell of God which is further from vs and let it not greene vs so farre to submit our wit to the vnmeasurable wisedome of God that it may yeald in many secrets of his for of those thinges which is neyther granted nor lawful to haue knowledge Ignorance is well learned and the coueting of knowledge a méere kinde of madnesse Rea. Well let vs stay here concerning the prouidence of God from which I perceaue nothing can be excluded and therfore in vaine doe men babble of Fortune Chance and other casuall Goddesses now therefore let vs proceed to the predestination of God of which thou oft hast spoken in this treatise of Prouidence and first of all I would haue thee describe vnto me what predestination is Reli. Truly the prouidence of God considered in that generall signification that is to say in the foreknowing or deyning ordering and ending all manner of things so farre as yet I vnderstand doth comprehend the predestination of God and is one selfe-same-thing therewith yet because predestination may bee restrayned in a more particular property namely to Gods ordering and disposing of mankind thus it may bee defined Predestination is the euerlasting and vnchangeable decree of the almighty which going before all causes draweth man to his appointed end that is eyther in Christ to saluation or else in Adam to condemnation the endlesse torments of hell Rea. And what is election not the same thing Rel. No for that is vtterly vnpossible and against all conueniency of Reason because the Reprobate is predestinate as wel as the Elect as witnesseth Saint Iude but we cannot say that the Reprobrate or offcast is elected therefore Election is peculiar to the good beeing chosen out of the totall number and predestination common to the good and the bad Rea. But it seemeth that before election goeth the mercy of God whereby the clect are saued and then doth the nature of contraryes requyre that the hatred or wrath of God should be the cause that the damned are damned Ergo God damneth some not for their sins but because he doth hate them Reli. If to the word hatred or wrath thou had'st put this litlle word Iust whereby God in Justice might haue cast off the ofcasts who neuer doth vniustly I would haue liked wel of thy consequent But I pray you where did you euer find that God hated man except it were for sin shew me the place and then will wee conclude against him that hee hateth his owne worke In the meane time content thy selfe with that which we haue already spoken touching this matter Rea. Well but it may seeme a hard and cruel case that som should be appointed to damnation although GOD may iustly do it for his glory sake Rel. I will not sée thy folly in these two words Cruel and yet Iust But yet I say it may seem a case more harder if God could bee found in the fault of reprobation whereaf he is but the fayling cause the efficient beeing grounded in man him-selfe And if we may speake of the handnesse of causes it séemeth much more harder on Gods behalfe that if hee could be proued the cause of transgression which is vtterly vnpossible that ye◠he may not vse his pleasure with his owne creatures Rea. But what say you to these generall sentences God would haue All men saued God would haue all men come to repentance that they might not perish Reli. You must construe of the word All in that place not after the letter or else auouch to the face of GOD that some are damned whether hée will or not therefore All hath relation here to all sorts of men in degrée and calling that is to say Princes Magistrates Gentlemen Bondmen Artificers and such other aswell of the Iewes as of the Gentiles thus doubtlesse wee must expound the word All. For GOD forbid that the Doctrine of predestination the very ground-worke of saluation should hang in suspence for a few texts that pretend outwardly a kind of repugnancy if this will not suffice then credit the Apostle saying according to the whole course of Scripture Though the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea yet shall but a remnant bee saued Many are called but few are chosen few enter at the straight gate Rea. Truly thou compellest me to yeald vnto thee in this point for if God would not haue some damned they should in no wise be damned that be damned But here againe ariseth a doubt which troubleth many If that necessity of things be prefixed by the eternall decreement it is superfluous and a mere
vtterest except the will of God were not worthy to bee the rule of righteousnesse but sâ— what other absurdities doe arise out oâ— this suggestion of thine as this God created Angels and men in al points sound not pretending that they should degenerate neuerthelesse they are become euill and haue peruerted that estate of integrity Ergo they haue broken the wil of God and conuayed them-selues out of his oâ— dinance as who should say they are therefore exemted from all subiection of their maker because they haue béene stubburne against him Againe al men at this day are corrupt and euill Ergo All men that are now liuing are without the compasse of the ordinannce of God These and many other such absurdities doe follow necessarily of thine obiection Reas Nay Sir herein as I take it you haue deceued your selfe with plausible surmises sor if the essentiall estate of man be considered apart from his faulty quality not onely Adam in the time of integrity was the subiect of God but after his fall also and in this case may the consequent proue that the whole route or sort of wicked men are comprehended within the ordinance of God Neuerthelesse the corruption of natue and all the euill actions of men may simply be transferred to the will and mallice of Satan and the fraylty of the workers Reli. Truely I must néeds confesse that this shift procéedeth not altogether from simplicity Notwithstanding if we â—end our affection simply to accept of the â—ame we shal fal very fondly to conseÌ„t 〈◊〉 the blasphemous Maniches which do oppose Satan against God for yet againe how shall God bée omnipotent if any other successe of things fall out then as doth best agrée with his good pleasure nay then how shall we not take the holy Ghost napping with infinite leasings which saith there is no euill in the Citie which the Lord hath not done Againe out of the mouth of the Lord procéedeth good and euill he hath made all things for his own sake yea euen the wicked for an euill day c. Notwithstanding if we alude to that will of God which hée hath reueled vnto vs according to which he is truly said to be God that can in no wise will sinne but he shall forth with bee vnrighteous so farre am I from not consenting thereunto that on the contrary part I yéeld the whole assent of my soule But that wee may discourse of this matter more familiarly we are especially to obserue two things the first whereof is this how or in what sort sin entered into the heart of man the second of what effect or powre sin is against God these two shall make it manifest enough that Satan neuer hitherto did neither shal aâ— any time hereafter ruffle out his part either in this world or elswhere without â—is pattent or commission froÌ„ the Lord â—s touching the first of these we agrée according to the scripturs that Adam in his â—state of innocency in all the instrumenâ—all parâ—s of his body had a proportionaâ—le resemblance aswel in soule as minde to the Image of God I mean not in perâ—on but in holinesse so that he stood at that time in such high and heauenly perfection that no tittle could be added for his greater integrity how bee it we are well assured that God neuer did beautiâ—e him with the ornament of constancy whereby he might haue obtained ablenesse and power to stand out in that eâ—tate Now therefore is it manifest that â—inne beginning at the same vnconstanty to insinuat among the good â—arts of Adam tooke not euen there his very original as a thing hapning or comming by chance for this only reason that God would not furnish him as in truth there was no law to bind him with constancy 〈◊〉 well as with all other notable endouâ—ents as in whom he had fore-ordained that yâ— high estate should be tickle but change ably good For how was it possible that any thing should intrude it selfe into the worke of God where of hée was not only most wary héedful but of power also to intercept any thing that might osseud him for this cause doubtlesse it is said That the people of Israel the gentiles did gather themselues together against our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ to do what soeuer the hand and counsel of God had appointed to be done from euer lasting in whom saith the Apostle we were predestinate before the foundation of the world Finally we finde that before the instant of mans creation muâ—â— more then before he fel away from righteousnesse God had planted in the gaâ— daine a trée of the knowledge of good â—uil In this truly can we perceaue one â—ther apparance of truth but that God vnchangeable purpose would haue hiâ— to tast thereof although hee were forbiâ— dent for why had not this thing bin prâ—fixed by the decrement of God why madâ— he that tree of nature by yt selfe contrâ—â— to al the rest why made he any different of good and euil at al who without doubâ— could haue made as easily the things yâ—â— would as hee can easily doe the things that be done Why made he any of the instruments whereby man was changed â—amely Satan and the Serpent loe thou â—ost perreaue I hope day light at this little wicket As touching the second thing herein to be obserued namely of what power or efficacy sinne is against God I say that albeit many fond vntoward witted men haue maintayned in time past two originall beginnings of things ascriâ—ing to good things GOD for the author and to the euill things the diuell whome with his euill things they diuelâ—ishly déemed more eternall then God good things and that Maugre the might of God the diuell played all his vngratious pageants yet considering that every man but meanely instructed in the â—chole of reason is ready to spew at this â—lasphemy I hope a few testimonies from among many may serue to suffice the Godly we read therefore in the history of that righteous man Iob that Satan could not once touch his person goods nor cattle before such time as the LORD had giuen him leaue Likewise the deuells besought our Sauiour Jesus Christ saying If thou cast vâ— out suffer vs to go into the hear'd of swine Moreouer if we should hunt out by curious speculation the creation of angels the cause mâ—â—mer time and place of theiâ— fal which little partaineth to edification but rather to séed their itching and fantasticall eares that cannot content them selues with the simplicity of faith we should find that Satan in his first esrate was the creature of God and there fore can haue but a power subiect in the execution of such wickednesse as he executeth Rea. Be it as thou hast said for it accordeth well with reason But let vs come backe to the second instrument or meane cause of Adams sall namely the serpent because I would gladly vnderstand whether he serued Satan as an instrumeÌ„t in that enterprice or whether of his owne malice he did helpe to delude the woman knowing before
as with theâ—â—es which being led to the gallowes doe exclame of the iudâ—e yes 〈◊〉 but if they would consider how miserable the comfort is that is borrowed of that poore reueng they would occupy their heads about their owne desarts which doe make them before God alwaies 〈◊〉 of euill deseruing more then bodily death and for the most part to bee iustly condemned of the world and not vse that malipâ—râ—nesse especially finding therein no remedy The conclusion is this and my aduise also that such as doe Ande them-selues greeued in Adam séeks hence forth to be well pleased in Christ Reas Surely I haue nothing to say against thee therefore I come yet backe to that which thou hast partly answered for why I cannot be satisfied in this wonderfull mistery of Gods seaâ—ret and reucaled will therefore I pray you to enlighten mee once againe with some example more familar then that other Reli. Néeds must he wonder and to no purpose that goeth about to be as wise as God and to vnder stand all the seacrets of his will saith the Apostle are past finding out but againe take the case to stand thus the Lord that disposeth of all things in their appointed seasons putteth the partridge into the marlins foote the pretty bird into the fowlers snare setteth the oxe foot vpon the silly worme bringeth the swelling waters out of their channels to the store-house of the poore prouident Ant the little fish into the net the lambe to the slaughter-house the lion to the hunters hand and man for his due desart oftentimes to a sharpe and sodden death this God in his righteous iudgement hath pre-ordayned my sonne to die amidest the mercilesse waues of the sea But for as much as nature the enemy to wisdome doth not suffer me to yéeld vp mine interest to the ordinance of God which you must suppose according to some extraordinary manner is disclosed vnto mee I say vnto him sonne assure thy selfe that no action in this world shall discontinew my fauour and good will towards thée Againe I make thée LORD of my whole reuenewes vse all that I haue or may procure for thée so that in consideration hereof thou wilt graunt me thy true and faithfull alegeaunce in this onely point depart not thy natiue country and I craue no more for at what time so euer thou shalt commit thy selfe vnto sayle and mast thou diest the death there is no remedy thus standeth thy safty thus thy perill thus my hearty request and thus I leaue thée Well this my sonne according to the maner of men hauing a body at home and a mind else where then where it should be neither making conscience of my great liberallity commandement nor any other good desert nor yet respecting the daunger of his owne person like a man led away with nouelties and the try all of strange aduentures rather then estéeming an honest life and the duty oâ— of a child committeth him-selfe to the safe conduct of will that idle and desperate loadsman and at last after many tormoyles is forced to fish in the déepes without his boat like as before I had tould him shall not the man séeme to do me iniury that shall reproue me for this fault of my sonne who euery way so well and fatherly intreated him as became me Thus much I compare with the Lord of Heauen who created man Lord of the whole Earth saue that hee debard him the trée in the midst of the garden But if thou hapily say that all this is not to the purpose because in the affaires of this processe I haue concealed no seacret but imparted my whole purpose to my sonne well I graunt let vs now therfore procéed euen here the case is altered let it be graunted also that before I begat my sonne I saw the sequell of this matter howbeit sith it concerned my will I would not onely obserue mine owne pleasure in that behalfe but also giue my willing consent to his fatall desteny I pray you in this case who shall let me to doe the thing that pleaseth me what hath my sonne to say against me or if hee say and repine neuer so much is it not folly to kicke against the pricke but if I in the eye of reason may séeme somewhat faulty or cruell in this action yet note that which is most vnrighteous in man is alwaies most righteous in the Lord of heauen with whom no creature doth stand in comparison Moreouer suppose that I sée a blind man taking a direct course vnto a daungerous caue and before his fall I step vnto him and say father beware and turne the â—acke for euen here at hand is such a perâ—ill as threateneth thy death the man not onely blind of body but of mind lame also not regarding my friendly admonition tumbleth downe headlong and doth breake his necke Is it strange to â—ée him burnt that will not come out of the fire but now to the matter let it be graunted that I set him in that way foreseeing his fall shall he not therefore be in 〈…〉 ited of his owne death Reas Surely but here canst thou not goe cleare away without touch for hadst thou not set the blind man in that way he might right well haue escaped that misfortune The like may bee sayd of thy Sonne also Reli. Did I not tell thée that no creature is to be compared with God who if he should damne the whole world setting the desert of Jesus Christ apart were neuerthelesse righteous true it is if I had neuer be gotten my sonne he had neuer bin drowned But the cause standing vpright as I left it canst thou shew any reason why I should not be get him séeing it was my will euen so if God had neuer made man doubtles it had bin long ere man had sinned but in those things which we know the Lord hath iustly done for his owne glory sake let vs be content and leaue off these tovish obiections of iffes and ands for what pretend we thereby but to set the Lord to Schoole and to take him forth a lesson of our owne mother wit who God knoweth hath much lesse néed thereof then the sea to borrow some small streame of water from poore brookes which the Sunne hath dried vp Rea. Wel then considering that nothing in the whole world commeth to passe rashly or casually but according to the will of God that is to say his ordinaunce may it be said that God hath appointed any thing that hee misliketh where-vpon hee doth take occasion to minister iustice Rel. Doubtlesse it must be graunted that whatsoeuer God hath appointed is appointed altogether willingly and without misliking otherwise might he séeme variable or to be canstrained to wil those things that he willeth but stay thy selfe herein appeareth the wonderful wisdom of God for those things that in their owne proper nature are naught haue yet before him great respect of goodnesse wherby
for there-vppon would al this packet of vntruth lustly depend viz. That the Church of God was drowned in the generall ouerflowing when al the world was drown'd and the church of satan saued in the Arke That the church of God perished-among the Sodomites and iust Lot and his family were y◠church of the diuel y◠the Iewes Scribes Pharisees were the Church of Christ and Christ him-selfe with the remnant of beléeuers the Church of Antichrist In conclusion that theyr Church is now the true Church because of the multitude and ours the false we wil demand but one thing of those multitude of men which if they truly tell vs and proue they shall haue our hand and our heart wée will become as true to them as stéele and consent to any religion of theyr forefathers which is that they shew forth at what time the estate of the world was in so good case that the best thinges did please the greatest number or when iniquity had not the most consent of adherents except at that time when all were drown'd except eight persons Alasse theyr proofe is euen as farre to séeke as heauen is distant from hell God graunt therefore the condition of consent be no nearer vnto vs. For it is written broad is the way that leadeth to perdition and many walk therein but narrow is the path to saluation straight is the gate and few do enter therat And further though the childrē of Israel were as y◠sand of the sea yet shall but a remnant be saued This is yet more plainly verified by Elias the Prophet who saw not one man frée from Idolatry and the subiection of Belial besides himselfe in all the world yet did he willingly all regard of the multitude laid apart serue the Lord of heauen truly Wherefore though our fore-fathers serued those Gods on the further side of the flood or the Gods of the Amorstes or the gods of their owne handes Let it amaze vs no more then it did good Iosua who said and let vs also say with him we and our houses will serue the God of heauen And with Iudith we will not follow the sinnes of our fore-fathers which forsake their God and worshipped strange gods The holy Hrophet receaued from the mouth or secret inspiration of God all that doctrine y◠they deliuered or taught the Apostles proued their Doctrine out of Prophets the godly of ensuing ages haue rested vppon them And shall wee alone be carelesse or accompt it ynough if many men haue gon before vs contrary to the Prophets and Apostles No no Al men haue sinned from the first except one and shall doe to the last yet it is nothing lawfull for vs to follow their steps therein Therefore although our forefathers were Idolaters yet must wee learne to serue the Lord And that wee may the better performe our duties in that behalfe it behoueth vs to be wise in the trying of spirits least we become clyents to our forefathers superstitions or superstitious in our owne fancies so ignorantly neglect the precepts of our God Let vs therfore looke vpon the iniunctions of Popery that we may be able to reprehend the Church of Rome but let vs call home theyr generall Councels with the rabble of theyr decretals to the same Prophets and Apostles And woe shal anon perceiue that we haue no cause to feare theyr times out of mind knowing that an euil custom is no better then a commō pestilence which by how much the more is old and ancient by so much the more it is rotten stinking nor yet their commō consents séeing the state of gods childrē is oftētimes to be desolate And because there is no heresie but will challenge som maintenance out of Gods word saying that theyr Church is the Church Apostolicall which the Papist as boldly sweareth taketh vpon him as if nothing were good but his Masse let them shew vs the Prophets and Apostles for their Masses Dirges Trentals praying to Saints praying with brads praying to help soules out of purgatory worshipping of Idols Bishopping of baptized children kissing of Pares Créeping to Crosses baptizing of bells coniuring of water coniuring of balme coniuring of hearbes buying of bulles and pardons and auricular confession the rest of their sacraments paying of vaine vowes going on pilgrimage pace-eggs manyples licking of rotten bones Auc-Maryes blessing with two fingers annoynting annoyling absoluing knéeling knocking whipping crouching kissing crossing shauing greasing and ten thousand such trickets moe I appeale to the iudgement of the wise-harted whether God abrogating the ceremonies of his own law did purpose that the Pope should institute and erect a new of such traditions as these If we hold them hard to the proofs of these and such other by the touchstone aforesaid namely y◠word of God theyr next leape is longer then the passage betwéene Douer and Callice for they crosse the broad ss as to vnwritten verities But how colde theyr entertainment is there we would not much feare to make thē-selues the Iudges if shame grace had not forsaken them In déed wee know and confesse that more was spoken then is written And that whatsoeuer Christ the Apostles preached was the word of GOD were it written or not But we know also that if more had bene necessary to saluation then is written God would not suffer vs to want it least with them we might happen to runne a whoring after our owne deuises But aboue all wee are most assured that the Spirit of God neuer was nor will be contrary to it selfe Therefore let vs try how truly theyr berities vnwritten doe accord with the written word We finde in the Scripture that wee ought to worship God alone and not to make our selues any grauen Image but is it possible that the Word vnwritten should tollerate their prayers to saints theyr sacrificing to Idols and theyr falling downe before blocks In his word written it is called the Doctrine of dinels to forbid matrimony to any man and can it bee his word vnwritten that Ministers shall neuer marry it is his word written that all that depart this world in the Lord do rest from theyr labours and is it also in the word vnwritten that they bee purged of many torments in the fire of Purgatory before they do rest it is playne by the word written that wee haue no remission of sinne but in the blood of Christ without whome we are dead and condemned to the bottome of hell but is it as playne by his word vnwritten that the Pope can saue that who-soeuer shal die in a white fryers scapulary shal be saued or he that dyeth in a gray fryars frocke shall neyther come in Purgatory nor in hell and aboue all is it his word vnwritten that a man may get in s 〈…〉 heap of deseruings 〈…〉 superrerogation 〈…〉 s friendes w 〈…〉 against the hea 〈…〉 Is not this preposterous geare who would thinke that these men