Now what greater crueltie tyrannie and oppressioÌ„ can be then to creat the most parte of the world to euerlasting damnation so that by no maner of mean they can escaip and auoid the cruell decre and sentence against theÌ„ Seing the Philosopher Plato iudged them vnworthie to liue and to be suffered in any commoÌ„ welth which spake euill of God what oght our iudgements to be of such men which haue so wicked and opinion of God what so euer our iudgement be of them and what so euer their deseruing be let vs labore rather to win them then to lose them But forasmuch as he which toucheth pitche is in danger to be defiled there with Therefor oght we to walk warely with such men that we be not defyled and infected of them Specially seing that now a daies this horrible doctrine doeth freate euen as the disease of a cankar which infecte from one membre to an other vntill it hath occupied the hole bodie without it be cut away euen so this error hath alredie infected from one to an other a greate nombre The lord grante them the true meaning and vnderstanding of his worde whereby they may be healed and the sicknes cut of the membre being saued ANSWER Becaus that in all this your long discourse ye more shew your malice which vniustly against vs ye haue conceaued then y t either ye oppugne our beleif either yet promote your fals opinion I will not spend the tyme to recompence your dispite Onely this I will offer in the name of all may brethren that if you be able in presence of a lawfull iudge and magistrate euidently to coÌ„uict vs y t either we speak euill of God either yet y t by our writinges preaching or reasoning it iustly can be proued that our opinion is euill of his eternall maiestie power wisdom and goodnes that then we refuse not to suffer the same punishment which you by the auctoritie of Plato iudge vs worthy of Yea we further offer our selues willingly to vnderlie the verey death which God by his law hath appointed to all blasphemers prouided that you refuse not to vnderlie the same penaltie if falsly ye accuse vs. What is your studies to win vs and whether our doctrine be horrible error or not I do not now dispute Thus you reason THE ADVERSARIE God created man a verey good thing and dare you say that God ordeined a verey good thing to destruction Then God deliteth in the destruction of that which is verie good Man at his creation was a iust and innocent creature â–ª for afore the transgreâ—sion there was no euill neither in Adam nor in vs and think you that God ordeined his iust and innocent creatures to condemnation what greater tyrannie and vnrighteousnes can the most wicked man in the world yea the deuil him self do then to condemne the innocent and iust person Hereby may we se that these careles man by more abominable then the Athei which beleue there is no God But these affirme God to be as bad as the deuil yea and worse for asmuch as the deuil can onely tempt a man to death but he can compell none to fall vnto coÌ„demnation but God may not onely tempt but also compell â—y his eternall decre the most part of the world to damnation And hath so done as they say â–ª so that of necessitie and onely because it was his pleasure and will then must God be worse then the deuil For the deuil onely tempted men to fall but God compelleth them to fall by his immutable decre Oh horrible blasphemie ANSVVER Becaus that before plainely and simply I haue declared our iudgement of gods eternall election and most iust reprobation in all these your dispitefull arguments I will onely shew your malice ignorance and proude vanitie This is your argument God created man a verie good thing therefor he did not ordein him to destructioÌ„ your reason is for that is contrarie to his iustice to ordein a good thing to destructioÌ„ I answere if ye be able to proue that man stoode in the same goodnes perfectioÌ„ and innoceÌ„tie he aÌ„d his posteritie whome so hieghly ye praise in the which he was first created then will I confesse your argument to be good But if man albeit he was created good did yet willingly make him self euill how can it be contrarie to the iustice of God to appoint punishmeÌ„t for transgression which he did not onely fore se by an idle speculation or yet suffre and permitt against his omnipotent will but in his eternall counsell for the manifestatioÌ„ of his own glory had decreed the same Against which albeit ye cry horrible blasphemie till your braines drop out yet haue we Moises Exod. 9. Isaiah 6. Salomon and Paul to absolue vs from your cruell senteÌ„ce For they do affirme that God hath created all thinges for his own glorie and the wicked to the day of destruction that he raised vp Pharao that his power might be shewen furth in him that he blindeth the eis and hardeneth the heartes of some so that they can neither heare nor se that they may conuert That God hath prepared bothe vessels of mercie and vessels of wraith which places albit som of them seme not to appertein to the creation yet if they be iustly weyed it shall euidently appere that the hardnes of mennes heartes their blindnes and stubborn malice are not onely punishments of sinne but also are the effects of reprobation like as faith obedience and other vertues be the fre giftes of God geuen in Christ Iesus to those whom he hath elected in him But yet to your argument which thus ye amplifie do ye think that God ordeined his iust and innocent creatures to damnation what greater tyrannie and vnrighteousnes can the most wicked man in the earth yea the deuil him self do then to coÌ„demne a iust aÌ„d an innocent person I answer as before that your argument is nought worthe For you conclude more then ye be able to proue of your two former propositioÌ„s which be those God created man a verie good thing Trew it is and God reprobated maÌ„ and shall also condeÌ„ne him whoÌ„ he created good I grant also Therefor he damned the good thing which he created or that thing which is verie good I deny the conclusion For before demnation there cometh a change in man so that he of verie good became extreme euill and so gods iust iudgements found nothing but that which is euill to condemne You forme your reason as that God had so created maÌ„ good that he by no meanes after could be made euill which last part is fals and so you are deceaued If ye caÌ„not se iust causes why God should make that thing verie good which after should becom exttreme euill accuse your own blindnes and desire of God to repres in you that presumption and pryde which against the eternall Sonne of God you haue conceaued and so your eyes
burdē God with iniustice in defending his own innocētie At which reasons Elihu offended after that the other three were put to silēce takīg vpō him to reproue Iob affirmeth that the wisdom the power the iustice and the iudgementes of God were incomprehensible that God could do nothing vniustly how that euer it appered to mannes iudgement and amongest other thinges he saieth wilt thou say vnto a king thou art wicked or vnto princes ye are vngodlie How muche les to him that accepteth not the persons of Princes and regardeth not the riche more then the poore For they be all the worke of his handes They shall dye sodenly and the people shal be trobled at midnight and they shall passe furth and take away the mightie withoute hand for his eies are vpon the wayes of man and he seeth al his goings Thus haue I noted partly y t none shall think that these wordes may seme to fauor your error and partly that your vntruethe in wrasting such places may more manifestly appere Ignorance of the tongues may be some caus in you but in some of you I can manifestly proue that malice blindeth knowledge and compelleth you to speake and write against your vnderstanding God touche your heartes with true repentance and giue you his holie spirit with greater reuerence to intreat his scriptures But now to the scriptures that ye alledge God say you hath no respect of persōs Ergo wil ye cōclude he hath no election Your conclusion is fals and my reason is becaus that gods fre election depēdeth not vpon the persones of men but vpon his own promes and good will ▪ But to make this mater more sensible I wil make an argumēt directly against yours God respecteth not the persons of men But yet amongest men is found great diuersitie bothe in vertue ād in vice Therefor there must be som cause from whence this diuersitie procedeth Of the first part I know ye doute not and the secōd parte is confirmed by common experience and by euidēt scriptures for how diuerse be the inclinatiōs of mē none cā be ignorāt except such as do not obserue the same Such as attribute the caus of such diuersitie to the sterres and to the influence of the Planetes are more then vaine education and vp bringing doeth somwhat bow nature in that case but neither of bothe is the cause of such diuersitie for how many haue bene norished in vertue togither and yet haue after fallen to moste horrible vices and in the same perished And contrarie wies how many haue bene wickedly broght vp and yet by grace atteined to an holie conuersation If the cause of this diuersitie I say shal be inquired and soght it shall not be found in nature for thereby were and are we all borne the sonnes of wraith if in education and vp bringing we se how oftē that faileth The cause thereof thē must be of necessitie without man To make the mater yet more plaine by an exēple Paule preached Christ Iesus to be the onely Sauior of the world both amongest the Iewes and gentiles to som his preaching was the sauour of lief and to others it was the sauour of death from whence commeth this diuersitie from the obedience will and faith of the one say you and frome the stubborne inobedience and infidelitie of the other you say somewhat but not all for true it is that faith and an obedient will is that which we call Causam propinquam that is the next cause to our apprehension but what is the cause that the will of one is obedient and the will of the other stubborne that the one doeth beleue and the other doeth blaspheme How so euerye do shift the holie Gost in many places plainely affirmeth the cause not to be in nature nor yet to procede of man nor of his fre will but to be the fre grace of the caller as Christ Iesus doeth witnes None can com vnto me excepte my Father draw him No mā can se the kingdom of God except he be borne againe and that neither of blood neither of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God who toucheth and openeth the heartes of so many as he hath ordeined to lief to aduerte and beleue the thinges that be truely preached As those that be the shepe of Christe Iesus who heare his voice and know the same These and many places mo do most plainely declare what is the cause that some beleue and others beleue not to witt that som are born of God and som are left in nature som are shepe som are goates the heartes of som are touched and opened by the finger and Spirit of God as it was said to Peter flesh and bloode hath not reueled this vnto the but my Father which is in the heauen and the heartes of others left in their own blindnes and hardnes If ye demand how is it then that God respecteth not the person of man I answer if ye did vnderstād a right what is mēt by acceptation of persons or what it is to respect persons ye should not doute in this behalf Acceptatiō of persons is when an vnworthie person is preferred to a worthie either by corrupt affection of those that do preferre him either yet for some qualitie or externall beautie that appereth in man As if to the office of a king or of a bushope should one be elected that neither hath godlynes knowledge wisdom nor yet the spirit of gouernement because he is riche noble of bloode fare and lustie and the persons hauing giftes much more excellent should be contemned this is called acceptation of persons As Samuel seing Eliab and considering his beautie and stature doeth boldly pronounce in his own heart assuredly before the Lord this is his anoīted Such acceptation of persons is not with God for neither looketh he to blood riches nobilitie vertue strength nor beautie temporall in his eternall election but onely to his own good will and eternall purpose by the which he hath elected vs in Christe Iesus If ye shall consider the same place depely ye shall find that none within the hole scriptures of God more confuteth your error then it doeth For as God respecteth not the person of mā so respecteth he nothing that is or can be within man as the chief cause of his election For what can God forese consider or know to be in man that good is which floweth not from his fre mercie and goodnes as it is written we are not sufficient of our selues to think any thing that good is but all our sufficiencie is of God who worketh in vs bothe to will and performe Then if all vertue what so euer be in vs be the work of God can the work folowing be the cause of gods eternall purpose If the cause and the effectes proceding of the same be things diuerse then are our vertues and fruites not
thy self and thy health cometh of me ANSWER Your colde and vnsauerie exposition whichâ— ye folowing the prophane subtilitie of Castalio make vpon the wordes of the Apostle written in the nynth chapter to the Rom. is neither able to iustifie your error neither yet to improue the doctrine which vpoâ— the same we collect and gather which is this That as God by his fre benediction seperated the people of Israel from all nations of the earth so did his fre election make difference betwext the men of the same people of whom he did frely choose som to saluation and did appoint others to eternal condemnation Secondarely that of this his fre Election there is none other cause nor foundation but his mere goodnes as also his mercie which after the fall of Adame doeth without all respect had to their workes receaue and embrasse whom it pleaseth him Thirdly that God in this his fre election is bound to no necessitie to offer the same to all indifferently but contrarie wies he passed by such as it pleaseth him and whoÌ„ it pleaseth him he receaueth These propositions I say are so euident in Paules wordes that they neuer can be moued by your malicious and ignorant wresting of the text for in euerie one of Paules sentences he striueth directly against your error for where he saieth Rebecca conceaued of one that is of our father Isaak he secludeth al cause that might haue bene by accidentes which come in tyme either in the father or in the mother and in these wordes when the chidlren were not yet born and had neither done good nor euill he secludeth al respects that caÌ„ be alledged to haue bene in the children But where he saieth that the purpose of God might abide according to election not of workes but of the caller c is plainely denied merites dignitie or workes to com to be any caus of gods fre election For if he wold haue persuaded men to haue beleued that God had elected som in respect of their good workes to com and had reiected others for their euill workes onely which he foresaw that they should do Paul had not so veheâ—eÌ„tly vrged these termes and sentences That the purpose of God might abyde according to election not of workes c. but he should simply haue said God hath chosen som in respect of their good workes which he foresaw they should do which therefor he wold reward first with his election and after with his kingdome But the plaine contrarie way to this we se the Apostle vseth pulling man altogither from contemplation of him self to God to his fre mercie to his fre grace and eternall purpose and also to his most depe and profounde iudgements Imagin what shift so euer ye can ye shall neuer be able to auoid this plaine simplicitie of the Apostle With what face can ye denie that these wordes the elder shall serue the yonger are not spoken of Iacob and Esau seing that the Apostle in plaine wordes doeth affirm that they were spoken and ment of the two children before they were born He saieth not before the two natioÌ„s were born but before the childreÌ„ were born Your reason is becaus as concerning the fleshe Esau did neuer serue Iacob I answer neither yet did God say the elder shall serue the yonget in the fleshe but simply did pronounce The elder shall serue the yonger But well do ye declare what is your vnderstaÌ„ding of dominion and seruitude be it in fleshe or be it in spirit Was it no kinde of seruitude I pray you yea euen in the flâ—she that Esau was compelled to begge poâ—age at Iacob and for the same to sell all title of his birthright was it no thraldome that with crying owling aÌ„d furious rores he was compelled to begge the benediction which Iacob had gotten and yet could not obtein it Did not his heart fele subiection when he seeth his father so constant in preferring Iacob to him that by no meanes he wold retreat or call back one worde We do not denie but the diuersitie was also established betwext the two nations but that the heades should be secluded that are ye neuer able to proue But rather the battell which did beginne in the mothers wombe was established and confirmed by the oracle of God to continue betwext the posterities of those two heades Did Rebecca and Isaak after he did se gods prouidence and will to be contrarie to that which he had purposed which was to giue the benediction to Esau did they I say vnderstand that Iacob had no parte in that promes touching his own person The wordes of Isaak do witnes the contrarie for he saieth I haue established him lord ouer the c. By the same reason which ye make I may proue that these wordes were not spoken of their posterities for during longer time then either did Iacob or Esau liue the Edomites did not serue the Israelites in the fleshe which did onely beginne in the latter dayes of Dauid and did continue to the daies of Ioram son of losaphat when they departed from that obedience neither yet were they euer after that broght into subiection againe but be thereforeâ— the oracles and promises of God vaine Yea had they not their effect bothe in the one people aÌ„d in the other euen when the one was in moste miserable bondage first in Egypt and after in Babylon and wheÌ„ the other was in greatest felicitie to mannes apperance yet before God was that sentence true The elder shall serue the yonger For he had further respect then the present estate as the Apostle doeth declare that all the faithfull Patriarkes had Iacob wold not haue interchanged the comfort which he receaued in his first iourney fâ—oÌ„ his fathers house for all the worldlie ioy Y â— Esau possessed for in seâ—g that scale or ladder God fitting vpon the head of it the foote of it touching the earthe vpon the which did Angelles asceÌ„d and come downe aÌ„d in hearing that most ioy full and comfortable voice I am the God of Abraham thy father of Isaak the laÌ„d whereupoÌ„ thow slepest I will giue to the and to thy sede c. and lo I am with the and will kepe the whether so ener thow goest aÌ„d will bring the againe into this land In seing and hearing these thinges I say did Iacob vnderstand that the benediction of God extended further then to temporall thinges yea that rather it did extend to that vnion coniunction which was betwext God and man in that blessed sede promised then to the possession of the land of Canaan for the one did neither Abraham Isaak nor Iacob possesse in their liues neither yet their posteritie many yeares after but the ioy of the other did all the elect fele and see and did reioyce as Christ Iesus doeth witnes of our father Abraham That these wordes Iacob haue I loued but Esau haue I hated are not written in Genesis neither
referred to the subsequentes your malicious myndes compell me often to repete one thing Your reasoning of the preterit and future tence is so foolishe that it nedeth no confutation For we confesse that God spake not those wordes to Rebecca but that the Prophete as is declared spake them after by the which he sendeth them to the ancient loue of God which begaÌ„ before that euer their father could know or serue God In which is to be noted that he maketh neither meÌ„tioÌ„ of Aâ—raham nor of Isaak but of Iacob and of Iacob in his mothers wombe to pull doune this pryde which ye with the Pelagians and Papistes haue conceaued of your workes going before and foresene by God to folow in you But the Prophete of God did so dauÌ„ton the stowt heartes of that his people were they in other thinges neuer so wicked that they did not alledge that any cause was either in their father or in them why that they or he should be preferred to other nations and specially to the Edomites who discended from Esau in all thinges like to Iacob gods onely grace excepted I praise God that so far ye will confes of gods eternall trueth that it was not for their righteousnes that Israel receaued the inheritance but onely becaus God frely loued their fathers But why so sodanly ye slyde frome the principall purpose leauing Esau and his posteritie aâ—d do enter to speak why y e Cananites were cast furth â— se no iust cause for neither doeth Moses in the first oracle of God neither the Prophete Malachie in explaning the same neither yet our Apostle in applying boeth those places to the spirituall benediction lay the sede of Iacob against the Cananires but Iacob is set against Esau and the people discending frome the one against the people that discended from the other The question there might iustly haue bene demanded what prerogatiue hath Iacob aboue Esau Moises the Prophete and the Apostle do answer assuredly none except onely grace which made difrence betwext them whom nature in all thinges had made equall for bothe were come of Abraham bothe of one father both of one mother both conceaued at once both fostered vnder one climate region influence of sterres and yet it was said The elder shall serue the yonger We know that the Cananites came of a cursed father whom if Paule should haue compared with the Israelites they should haue complained of iniurie done vnto themâ— And his reasons had bene easely dissolued for if he had said y e electioÌ„ of God is fre aÌ„d hath respect to no workes and had broght in the sede of Abraham elected and the sede of Cham reiected and accursed for probation of the same they sodanly should and iustly might haue replied C ham mocked his father and therefor was he and his posteritie accursed and so had God respect to workes But the Apostle loketh more circumspectly to so graue a mater and therefor did choose such an example as wherin the witt nor reason of man can find no cause of inequalitie Of this I thoght good to put you and the readers in mind lest perchance ye should imagin that as greate cause of reprobation was found in Esau before he was born as Moses laieth to the charge of the Cananites And so I perceaue in a part ye do for in the end and after ye haue affirmed that the cananites were cast owt of the land by reason of their wickednes ye return to Esau repenting your selues I trust that so imprudentlie ye had slipped froÌ„ one linage to an other And these wordes ye affirme That Esau is hated it commeth of his own euill deseruing conforme to the saying of the Lord Thy destruction â— Israell is of thy self and thy health cometh of me In which affirmation and pretensed probation of the same I fynd no les negligence in you then before I haue sheweÌ„ aÌ„d proueÌ„ for as most impudeÌ„tly before ye coÌ„founded y e sede of Abraham who by gods own mowth was blessed with the sede of Cham who in expressed wordes was accursed so here ye confound Israel elected of God to be his people in Iacob with Edom reiected from that honor in their father Esau before that either the one did good or the other did euill The wordes of the Prophete which ye bring to proue that Esau was hated for his euill deseruing were neither spoken to him nor to his posteritie but they were spoken to that people whom God had preferred to all nations of the earthe to whom he had shewen his manifold graces and to whom he had bene saluation and help euen in their most desperate calamitie But then fore their defection from him and for their Idolatrie committed were become most afflicted and miserable dailie teÌ„ding to further destructioÌ„ To these I say aÌ„d not to Esau nor yet to his posteritie did God say ô Israell thow hast destroied thy self or ô Israell it hath destroyed the for so is the hebrew text for in me is thy health In w c wordes he repressed the grudgeing aÌ„d y e murmuriÌ„g of the people who in their miserie did rather accuse God of crueltie theÌ„ repeÌ„t or acknowledge their sinnes and Idolatrie to be the cause of their ruyne as in Ezechiel well may be sene to such God saieth Israel thow art in moste extreme miserie thy honor is decayed and the glorie of thy former aige is now turned to ignominie and shame What is the cause it lieth not in me for as I am eternall and immutable so is not my hand shortned this day neither yet my power diminished more then when I did deliuer the frome the bondage of Egipt In me is thy health now as it was then yf that thy sinnes did not make seperation betwext the and me Plaine it is first that here no mention is made of Esau nor Edom but of Israel onely and secondarely that God speaketh nothiâ—g in this place why he did first elect Iacob and reiect Esau but why it was that Israel which some tymes was honorable aÌ„d feared of all nations was then becom most miserable and afflicted on all sides Except that you be able to proue that Esau committed as manifest Idolatrie before he was borne and before that Iacob was preferred vnto him as Israel did before they came to destruction yâ— haue proued nothiÌ„g of your affirmation further I say that if Esau was hated for his euill deseruing then must it nedes follow that Iacob was loued for his well deseruing by the argument folowing of the nature of the contraries But that directly repugneth to the wordes of Moises to the interpretation of all the Prophetes and to the mind and strong reasons of the Apostle who plainely denie workes by past or to cum to be any cause of gods fre election Trew it is we be elected in Christ Iesus to be holie and to walk in good workes which God hath prepared But euerie reasonable man knoweth
then were his workes full of crueltie miserie damnation and destruction Now as touching this saying who is able to resist his will we must learne what is gods will If you ask the Lord he will answer you it is not my will that any man sinne neither is it my will that the sinner die but rather that he amend and liue but if he will not amend but continew in sinne him wil I punishe and him may I also punishe hauing power aboue all men as the potter ouer the clay Wherefor when any man suffereth iustly for his trespasse he oght not to accuse God and say who can resist his will â–ª as God wold absolutely the destruction of his creatures as ye teach God will all men to repent and amend and also that theâ— who will not repent and amend be punished this his will is iust and full of mercie against which will is no man able to resist for either must they repent and amend orels they must suffer As the potter wold gladly make of his clay a good vessell but if it will not frame he breaketh it and casteth it away and as the king wold all his subiects to be obedient vnto his lawes yet the vnworthiest slaue in his dominion hath power to break the kinges lawes Notwithstanding wheÌ„ he suffereth for his offence the kinges will is fulfilled eueÌ„ so thogh God both wille hand coÌ„man deth vs to obserue his law yet haue we power to offend against the former parte of his will otherwies we should all obserue â—he will of God and be saued and so should there be no reprobate But when for our disobedience we be punished the will of God is fulfilled which will is both good and iust and therefor oght no man to accuse it aÌ„d say who is able to resist his wil. No more theÌ„ clay when it framed not to be a good vessell doeth accuse the potter of breaking it ANSWER Ye be not able to proue that in any vehemencie we alledge those wordes of the Apostle in other sentence theÌ„ he wrote theÌ„ for all praise aÌ„d glorie be vnto God the mercifull giuer we haue not so litle profited in the schoole of Christ Iesus that we wold wrest the wordes of the holie Gost to a coÌ„trarie sense We are not ignorant that the Apostle pronouÌ„ceth these wordes in the person of carnall meÌ„ who hearing that God hath mercie vpon those that he wil and that also he maketh hard hearted such as he will do storm and furiously crye wherefor theÌ„ doeth he coÌ„plein who is able to resist his wil. These wordes I say do we not vrge to proue our doctrine for where we affirme that the onely will of God is the perfect reule of all thiÌ„ges which be done aÌ„d are to be done in heaueÌ„ and in earth we build our doctrine vpon euideÌ„t testimonies of the scriptures aÌ„d vpon the cheif principalles of our religioÌ„ and faith Dauid and Isaiah do both aggre that our God who dwelleth in heauen doeth what so euer he will in heaueÌ„ and in earthe that he formeth light and doeth creat darknes that is giueth aswel prosperitie as aduersitie Daniel affirmeth that the supreme God distributeth kingdomes as best semeth to his wisdom and Salomon doeth witnes that against the Lord there is no counsell can preuale The necessarie principalles of o r faith do teach vs that as in God there falleth no ignorance so in him there is no impotencie He doeth not as it were in suspeÌ„se aÌ„d doubt behold the eueÌ„t aÌ„d chaÌ„ce of thiÌ„ges ronning after to seke remedie but that in wisdom hath he disposed all thiÌ„ges willing nothing which he may not and doeth not bring to passe in time according to his eternall purpose and working nothing which is not most iust howbeit the causes thereof be hidde frome vs. Of these and many mo scriptures and necessarie principalles of our faith do we grounde our doctrine and not vpon that one place spoken in the rebuke of the stubborn and rebellious disputers with God ye burden vs that we accuse and make God to be the author of euill aÌ„d the cause of damnation That we cause many brest owt and say since his will and pleasure no man is able to resist let him lay it on him self aÌ„d not to vs if any sinne be committed And last ye affirme that if our sainges be true that then are gods works full of crueltie miserie damnatioÌ„ and destructioÌ„ and so of two thinges ye accuse vs and the thirde ye affirme ineuitably to folow of our doctrine if it be true Here after I will not greatlie labour to confute thy argumeÌ„tes which is a thing most easie euen to any godlie man how beit he had neuer sene arte nor studied the same But seing that thow and thy most pestileÌ„t sect be not content maliciously to sclander those that in such a case be most innoceÌ„t but that also with most impudent mowthes ye vomite furth your horrible blasphemies against gods maiestie I will most earnestlie and most vnfeanedlie require of all reulers Princes Magistrates and gouernors who in the fear of God do ruele aboue their subiects that as they will answer in the presence of the Lord Iesus for the administration of iustice committed to their charge that indifferently they iudge betwext you and vs. To witt that if we can euidently be coÌ„uicted of those crymes which ye most maliciously and most vniustly lay to our charge that then iudgement without mercie be executed against vs. But and if ye fail in your probation and also if ye can not proue crueltie to be in gods workes supposing that our doctrin remaine as that it is trew aÌ„d stable that then such order may be takeÌ„ for repressing of your vennemous tongues that neither ye be permitted thus openly to blaspheme gods Maiestie neither thus maliciously to sclander innocentes and to offend y e eares of all godlie hearers And to the end that meÌ„ shall not think that being at this time accused we beginne to deuise new defenses or excuses of our selues I will faithfully and simply bring furth of the workes as som what I haue done before of that singulare instrument of Christ Iesus in the glone of his Gospell Iohn Caluin such sentences as shall make plaine to all men what our opinion is of God of the fall of man of the woÌ„derous work of our redemption and of the most iust reiection and damnation of the reprobat Thus saieth he dependeth the perdition of the reprobate vpoÌ„ the predestination of God that the cause and the mater is altogither found in them the first man fell because the eternall iudged it expedient why he iudged it we know not yet certeÌ„ it is that he so iudged it not but that he saw the glory of his name thereby to be illustrate when that thow doest heare the mention of gods glorie there also remembre thow iustice to be for of necessitie it is that iust must y t
were with we be burdened to wit that God is the author of sinne ether that he deliteth or willeth iniquitie ether that sathan or men doing wickedly do obey God ether in so far as they do euil that they do the thing that God will and therefor are blameles Let such blasphemies be far not onely from our mowâ—hes but also from our cogitations aÌ„d thoghtes That none of these blaspemies necessarely may be concluded of ouredoctryn may thus be proued God putâ—eth in execution the counselles of his will by second causes and mid instrumentes not as bouÌ„d vnto them as the Stoâ—kes did affirme but frely and poteÌ„tly making mouing and directing them as it pleaseth his wisdom Of those instrumeÌ„tes there are two principall kindes The one hath lief and mouing the other be without lief which raâ—her be moued by the force of others then moue theÌ„ selues There be two sortes of those that haue lief the one be iâ—dued with reason and iudgement the other be without reason and are onely caried by the blynd force of nature Those that be without lief and those also that haue lief but lack reason can nether be said to do well nor euil but those that vse them as instrumentes may be said ether to do well or euil Those that haue lief endued with reason are ether Angelles or meÌ„ The angelles be of two sortes som good som bad but as for men all by nature are euil But by grace they are so seperated that som are vtterly euil som partly good to witt in so far as the Spirit of God hath sanctified them Such as in any action are moued by their own inward motion iustly may be said to work and therefor in that kynd of instrumentes falleth the differeÌ„ce of good and of euill workes nether yet properly in that respect may they be called instrumentes but the causes efficieÌ„t An euill action I call that which hath not the reueled will of God for the assurance and eÌ„d and by the coÌ„trarie the work is good when the worker looketh to obey gods expresse commandement These same althogh they be causes in so far as they work by their own proper motioÌ„ yet are they in an other respect called instrumentes in so far as they are moued by an other As when the hangman by the commandement of the magistrate killeth a man or when by instigation of the deuil meÌ„ hurt others or wheÌ„ at the commandement of any we do ether good or euill to any maÌ„ In this kynd of actions it is euident that one work is attributed to two to the one as to him that worketh by an instrument and to the other as to the worker by motion or commandement such workers are instrumentes not simply as the haÌ„mer or axe is in the hand of the smithe or hewer but they are such instrumentes as also moue by their own inward motion And for this double respect a double worke appereth som tymes to be done In somuch that the one may be lawdable and the other wicked As if the magistrate shall committ an offender worthie of death to the executor of iustice This worke is praise worthie of all good men But if the lictor inflaÌ„bed rather with enuie auarice or any other wicked affection then looking to the commandemeÌ„t of the iudge shall kill the same offender most certen it is that before God he can not auoid the cryme of murther Now let us applie these thiÌ„ges to God whose efficacie before we haue proued to worke in all thinges without exceptioÌ„ aÌ„d so that by those thiÌ„ges which he hath made as by instrumenâ—es he executeth in tyme what so euer he hath decreed frome eternitie What so euer God worketh is good seing from him who is infinitlie good no euil thing can procede but he worketh aâ—l thinges therefor all thinges be good inso far as they ar done by God And that difference of good and euil hath onely place in the instrumentes aÌ„d in those of whom we haue spoken in the 14. proposition For if those instrumentes be good and if their actions look to the reueled will of God they do well and God also doth well by theÌ„ wherefor that work is alwaies good as when the good angelles execute that which God coÌ„mandeth and holie men do follow God calling them Euil instrumentes euill I say not by creation but by corruption in so far as they work alwais they do euill and therefor iustly do they incurre the wrath of God But in so far as God worketh by theÌ„ they ether by ignorance orels against their purposes serue to the good work of God But God him self by what so euer instrumentes he worketh worketh at all tymes well And so he worketh by those instrumeÌ„tes that not onely he permitteth and suffereth them to work nether doth he onely moderate the eueÌ„t or chance but also he raiseth them vp he moueth he directeth and that which is most of all he also createth to the end that by them he shall work that which he hath appointed Which thinges God doth righteously and without any iniustice For wheÌ„ the wicked man sinneth ether against him self ether against any wicked person God without any sinne doth aÌ„d bringeth to passe that the wicked man shall take vengeance vpon him self or that euill men shall take veÌ„geance vpon other wicked men who haue deserued punishement And this one and other work of God is most iust and by such exemples of his iudgementes God erecteth and comforteth his afflicted How oft that euill men hurt good men the wicked meÌ„ sinne aÌ„d in the end they suffer iust punishement and yet by them neuertheles doth God chasten instruct and confirme his own and by the manifest ennemies of his Church doth God make glorious his Church Yet can it not be said that those euill instrumentes do obey God For albeit that God worketh his work by them yet they so far as in them lieth and as coÌ„cerning their own counsell and will do not the work of God but their own work for the which meritably they are punished Albeit what so euer God worketh by the wicked is good yet what so euer the wicked men work is euel Nether is the consequent good God worketh all thinges Ergo he worketh sinne for the name of sinne is not but in the vicious aÌ„d faultie qualitie which is altogither in the instrument that worketh By reason of this corrupted qualitie the work which in the self is one som maner of way is double and may be diuided Insomuth that the one that is the iust work of God derectly fighteth and repugneth against the vniust work of man God neuertheles far other waies worketh by his good instrumeÌ„tes theÌ„ he doth by his euil instrumeÌ„tes for besides that by his good instrumeÌ„tes he worketh his work the good instrumentes also do their work by that strength and efficacie which the Lord ministereth vnto them And God also worketh his work by them and in them he worketh to will and
AN ANSWER TO A GREAT NOMBER of blasphemous cauillations written by an Anabaptist and aduersarie to Gods eternal Predestination AND CONFVTED By Iohn Knox minister of Gods worde in Scotland Wherein the Author so discouereth the craft and falshode of that sect that the godly knowing that error may be confirmed in the trueth by the euident Worde of God PROV XXX ¶ There is a generatioÌ„ that are pure in their owne coÌ„ceit and yet are not washed from their filthines Printed by Iohn Crespin M.D.LX. To the Reader FOr the vnderstanding of the nombres the readers shall obserue that as the writer in his pestilent booke hath deuided the hole into certeÌ„ argumeÌ„tes so lykewise haue I deuided myne answers into certen Sections And because that many things in his railing reasons are either vnworthie of any answere or els not necessarie to be answered so oft as he repeteth the same I thoght good to signe those thinges in euerie seuerall section which I thoght in the same moste necessarie to be answered And this I haue done as well in his reasoÌ„s as in myne answers so that the figure of 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. which be marked in the mergeÌ„t of his reasons are answered where the lyke nombre is fouÌ„d in myne answers This I thoght good to admonish the reader The Preface AMongest the manifold blessinges where with God hath blessed his chosen childreÌ„ whom before all begining of times he hath predestinate to life in Christ Iesus it is not the least most deare brethreÌ„ that he hath giuen vnto vs plaine aduertisment how diuerse vnto dyuerse persons shal be the effect and operation of his word so oft as it is offered vnto the worlde To wit that as he him self was appointed by his heauenlie Father aÌ„d forespokeÌ„ by the Prophetes to be the Stone of offeÌ„se the stombling block and a snare to the two houses of Israel and yet that he shoulde be to others the Sanctuarie of honor the Rocke of refuge author of libertie so should his word I say truely preached be to some foolishnes and the sauor of death and yet vnto others that it shoulde be the swete odore of life the wisedo me and power of God and that to saluation to all those that beleue I purpose not at this present to intreat nor to reason how and why it is that gods eternall worde which in it self is alwayes one worketh so diuersly in the heartes of those to whoÌ„ it is offered but my onelie purpose is in few wordes to admonish vs to whom it hath pleased God of his owne fre mercy more playnely to reuele the mysteries of our redeÌ„ptioÌ„ theÌ„ he hath done to many ages be fore vs not to esteme this a small and common blessing of God that we haue not onely his trueth but also the effect and operation of the same coÌ„firmed to vs by experience of all ages Great infinite is that benefit of God and rightly can it neuer be weighed when so euer he doth offer his trueth vnto the world But such is either the dulnes of man orels his extreme ingratitude that he will not acknowledge the face of theveritie shyne it neuer so bryght The ingratitude of the Iewes is hereof vnto vs a sufficieÌ„t witnes For albeit that loÌ„g they did looke for the Messias and Sauior promised yet neuertheles when he came with wonderous signes workes super naturall they did not onely not know him but also refusing and vtterly denying him they did hang him bewext two theues vpoÌ„ a crosse The cause hereof in some parte we know to be the carnal libertie which coÌ„tinually they did thirst after and their preconceaued opinioÌ„ of worldlie glorie which because Christe Iesus appeared not to satisfie according to their fantasie and expectation therfore did they conteÌ„pteously refuse him aÌ„d with him all gods mercies offered vnto them Which fearfull example deare brethereÌ„ is to be obserued of vs. For by nature it is euident that we be no better then they were And as touching the league societie with God which prerogatiue long made theÌ„ blessed we be farre inferior vnto theÌ„ For in coÌ„parisoÌ„ of that league made with AbrahaÌ„ the tyme is shorte that the GeÌ„tiles haue bene auowed for gods people beloued spouse of Christe Iesus â–ª yea Paule feareth not to call theÌ„ the very natural braÌ„ches and vs the braÌ„ches of a wilde oliue And therfore if their coÌ„teÌ„pt was so punished that blindnes yet remaineth vpoÌ„ theÌ„ what oght we to feare They not considering the office of Christe the cause of his coÌ„ming were offended with his presence and doctrine And doeth any maÌ„ thiÌ„ck that we be free froÌ„ the same dangers Few shal be found that in mouth praise not veriâ—ie euery maÌ„ appereth to delyte in libertie but such coÌ„panyons do follow boâ—â— the one and the other in this life so that both are despised and called in doubt wheÌ„ they be of fered moste plainly to the world To speake this mater somewhat more planely it is a thiÌ„g as I suppose by many coÌ„fessed that after darknes light hath appeared but alas the vices that haue abounded in all estates and conditioÌ„s of persons the terrible crueltie which hath bene vsed against the saintes of God and the horrible blasphemies which haue bene daily are vomited furth against Christe Iesus and his eternall veritie hath giuen and iustly may giue occasion to the imprudent beholder of such confusion to preferre the darcknes of superstition which be fore did reigne to the light of saluation which God of his greate mercie hath now of late yeres offered againe to the vnthankfull world For what naturall man can think that the iustice of faith planelye and truely preached should be the occasion of sinne That grace and mercie offered shoulde inflaÌ„be the heartes of meÌ„ with rage and crueltie And that gods glorie declared shoulde cause meÌ„ impudeÌ„tly to spew furth their vennom and blasphemies against him who hath created theÌ„ The naturall man I say can not perceaue how these incoÌ„ueniences shoulde follow gods worde therfor do many disdein it a greaâ—e noÌ„ber deny it and few as it becoÌ„meth with reuereÌ„ce do imbrace it But such as with graue iudgemeÌ„t shal consider what was the common trade of liuing when Christe Iesus him self did by preaching and working call men to repentaÌ„ce what was the intreatement of his dearest seruaÌ„ts whoÌ„ he sent furth to preach the glad tydinges of his death and resurrectioÌ„ and what horrible sectes followed and daily did spriÌ„g after the publication of that ioyfull attonement made betwene God and man by Christe Iesu by his death resurrectioÌ„ and asceÌ„sioÌ„ such I say as diligeÌ„tly do obserue these former pointes shall not onely haue mater sufficient to glorifie God for his graces offered be the liues of meÌ„ neuer so corrupted and the confusion that thereof insueth neuer so fearful but also they shall haue iust occasion more
steadfastly to cleaue and stick to the trueth whose force effect they se alwaies to haue bene one frome the begīning The giuers of these offēses shall no doubt sustein the wo pronounced against them by Christe Iesus But yet must the childrē of God vnderstand that of necessitie it is that such offēses come that the elect may first be tryed and after be partakers of that blessing pronoūced by our master in those wor des Blessed is he that is not offended in me The cause of these my former wordes is that as Satā euer frome the beginnīg hath declared him self ennemie to the fre grace and vndeserued loue of God so hath he now in these last and moste corrupted daies most furiously raged agaīst that doctrine which attributeth all praise and glorie of oure redemption to the eternall loue and vndeserued grace of God alone By what meanes sathā first drew mākynd frome the obediēce of God the scripture doeth witnesse To wit by powring into their hartes that poison that God did not loue thē and by affirming that by transgressiō of gods cōmandemēt they might attein to felicitie and ioy so that he caused them to seke life where God had prounced death to be This same practise hath sathan euer frome the beginning vsed to infect the Church with al kynd of heresie as the writings of Moises of the Prophetes of the Apostles of the godlie in the primatiue Church do playnelie witnes But alas to such blasphemie did neuer the deuil draw mākynd as now of late daies in the which no small nōbre are become so bolde so impudent and so irreuerent that opēly they feare not to affirme God to be vniust if that he in his eternal coūsel hath elected more one sort of mē thē an other to life euerlasting in Christe Iesus our Lord which thing of late daies is more planely come to oure knowledge thē before we could haue suspected and that by the sight of a book moste detestable blasphemous cōteinyng as it is intiteled The cōfutation of the errors of the careles by necessitie with that odious name do they burden all those that either do teach ether yet beleue the doctrine of gods eternall predestination ▪ which booke writtē in the english tōgue doeth cōtein as well the lies and the blasphemies imagined by Sebastian Castalio and laid to the charge of that moste faithfull seruāt of God Iohn Caluine as also the vane reasōs of Pighius Sadoletus Georgius Siculus pestilēt Papistes expressed ennemies of gods free mercies The dispitefull railīg of w t booke the manifest blasphemies in the same cōteined togither with the earnest req̄sts of som godlie brethren moued me to prepare an answere to the same others I dowbt not might haue done it with greater dexteritie but with reuerēce feare do I lay the talēt cōmitted to my charge vpō y e table of the Lord to brīg to his church such aduātage as his godli wisdō hath appointed But lest that some shoulde thīk that my labors might better haue bene bestowed in some other exercise I thoght expediēt to admonish all brethrē charitably to requyre of thē not to esteme the mater to be of small weight importāce ▪ for seing that gods fre grace is opēly impugned disdainfully refused I iudge it the duetie of euerie man that loketh for life euerlasting to giue his confession to Christe Iesus whose glorie is by these blasphemers to y e vttermoste of their power suppressed Some do thinke that because the reason of man can not atteine to the vnderstanding how God shall be iust making in his counsel this diuersitie of mankīd that therefore better it were to kepe silēce in al such mysteries then to trouble the braynes and myndes of men with curious disputatiōs I willingly confesse that al curiositie oght to be auoided and that with great sobrietie we oght to contemplate beholde that incomprehensible mysterie of our redēption But yet I say that the doctrine of gods eternal predestinatiō is so necessarie to the Church of God that without the same can faith neither be truely taught nether surely established mā cā neuer be broght to true humilitie knowledge of him self nether yet cā he be rauished in admiration of gods eternal goodnes and so moued to praise him as apperteineth And therefor we feare not to affirme that so necessarie as it is that true faith be established in o r har tes y t we be broght to vnfined humilitie y t we be moued to praise hī for his fre graces receaued so necessary also is y e doctrin of gods eternall predestination For first there is no way more proper to buyld and establish faith thē whē we heare and vndoubtedly do beleue that our election which the Spirit of God doth seale in our hartes cōsisteth not in our selues but in the eternal and immutable good pleasure of God And that in such firmitie that it cā not be ouerthrowen nether by the raging stormes of the world nor by the assaultes of sathan nether yet by the wauering and weaknes of our own fleshe Then onely is our saluation in assurance whē we fynd the cause of the same in the bosom and counsell of God For so do we by faith apprehend life and peace manifested in Christe Iesus that by the directiō and guyding of the same faith we looke farther to wit out of what fountaine life doth procede In Christe Iesus now presētly do we fynd libertie ād life he is made vnto vs of God wisdome righteousnes and sanctification and redēption and in the promes of his Gospel is foūded the stabilitie of our saluation But yet we haue a ioy which far surmounteth this For albeit that we should heare that the mercies the graces of God were offered vnto all men and albeit also that we should fele that our heartes were somwhat moued to beleue yet onles the very cause of our faith be knowen oure ioye and comfort cā not be full For if we shall think that we beleue ād haue embrased Christe Iesus preached because our wittes be better then the wittes of others and because that we haue a better inclination and are of nature more tractable then be the cōmon sorte of men sathan I say can easely ouer throw all comfort buylded vpon so weak a ground for as the heart of man is vain and inscrutable so may it be that those that this day be tractable and obedient hauing also som zeale toward godlines yea and also bothe sense and feling of gods mercie such I say may shortly here after become stubborn in some cases disobedient in maters of greate importance tempted with lustes and finally they may be left so barren that rather they shal tremble at the sight of gods iudgemētes thē that they can reioyse in the free adoptiō of his children And therefor I say that except our comfort be
â–ª this notwihstanding I say we vse not boldly to pronounce whether of the nobres shal be the greater but w t all sobrietie we exhorte the people coÌ„mitted to our charge not to folowe y â— multitude to iniquitie For if they do there is no multitude that can preuale against God And so to vs in this behalf ye are greatly iniurious But yet in y e secoÌ„d parte your malice is more manifest for ye burdeÌ„ vs that we should affirme that the end of the creation of the reprobate was none other but their eternall perditioÌ„ From which calumnie master Caluin clearly purgeth vs in these wordes All oght to know saieth he that which Salomon saieth y t God hath created all for him self aÌ„d the wicked also to the euill day CoÌ„sider aÌ„d mark that we instructed by the holie Gost do first affirme that the cause and end why the reprobate were created neither was nor is not their onlie perdition as ye burden vs but that the glorie of God must nedes appere and shyne in all his workes And secondarely we teach that their perdition doeth so depend vpon gods predestinatioÌ„ that the iust cause and mater of their perditioÌ„ is found within them selues and that albeit the decre and couÌ„sel of God be incomprehensible to mens vnderstaÌ„ding yet neuertheles it is most iust and most holie And thus haue I so plainely and in so few wordes as conueniently I could expound in what pointes ye are malicious liers what ye haue added of hatred to our wordes and what ye suppresse that the equitie of our cause should not appere to men God grant you if his good pleasure be with greater modestie to write and with more humilitie to reason in those hieghe mysteries which far surmount the reatch of mannes capacitie But now I procede to the preface of your confutation which thus beginneth THE ADVERSARIE The confutation of the first error To proue this true they can bring furth no plane testimonie of the worde For there is no such saieÌ„g in the holie scripture that God hath reprobate man afore the world But the senteÌ„ces which they alledge be far set and forged coÌ„trarie to the meaning of the holie Gost as God willing it shal planely appere And where scripture will not serue they patch their tale with vnreasonable reasons for theire hole intention is contrarie to true reason ANSWER In verie dede if all were true w c ye haue heaped vp in your vniust accusation I for my parte wold not ashame to confesse that more were affirmed then plane scriptures do teach but your additioÌ„s which before we haue touched being remoued and that added which of malice ye haue omitted I hope that our propositioÌ„ shal be so plane and simple that the reasonable man if he be godlie shall neither lacke good reason nor plane scriptures to confirm the same Albeit that ye are bold to affirme that we haue neither scripture nor good reason and that our whole inteÌ„tion is contrarie to true reason But now let vs forme our own propositioÌ„s God in his eternall and immutable counsels hath once appointed and decreed whom he wold take to saluatioÌ„ aÌ„d whoÌ„ also he wold leaue in ruyne aÌ„d perditioÌ„ Those whome he elected to saluation he receaueth of fre mercie without all respect had to their own merites or dignitie but of vndeserued loue gaue theÌ„ to his onelie son to be his inheritaÌ„ce aÌ„d theÌ„ in tyme he calleth of purpose who as his shepe obey his voice aÌ„d so do they attein to y â— ioy of that kingdom which was prepared for them before the foundations of the world wer laide But to those whom he hath decreed to leaue in perdition is so shut vp the entrie of life that either they are left continually corrupted in their blindnes orels if grace be offered by them it is oppugned and obstinatly refused or if it seme to be receaued that abideth but for a tyme onely aÌ„d so they returne to their blindnes aÌ„d croked nature aÌ„d infidelitie agane in which finally they iustly perishe Becaus the hole coÌ„trouersie standeth in this whether God hath chose any to lief euerlastiÌ„g before the begiÌ„niÌ„g of al tymes leuiÌ„g others in their iust perditioÌ„ or not my purpose is first by plane scriptures to proue the affirmatiue and after in weying the same aÌ„d other scriptures that by Gods grace shal be adduced so planely as I caÌ„ to shew vnto you what horrible absurditie ineuitably foloweth vpon your error in which ye affirme that God hath chosen no man more one then an other â–ª that either your blindnes remoued ye may turne with all humilitie to the eternall soÌ„ne of the eternall God against whom you arm your selues orels that your damnation may be the more so dayne and iust for your refusall of the plaine light offered That God hath chosen before the foundation of the world witnesseth the Apostle saing Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christe who hath blessed vs with all spirituall blessing in heauenlie things by Christe as he hath chosen vs in him before the foundation of the world was laid that we should be holie and without blame before him by loue Here the Apostle in expresse wordes affirmeth that God hath chosen a certeiÌ„ nombre for he speaketh not to the hole world as you either ignorantly orels maliciously do after alledge but to his beloued congregation of Ephesus who with all obedience had receaued the word of lief offered and with great pacience had continewed in the same euen after the departure of their Apostle from them yea after his boÌ„des and impresonnement Such I say doeth the Apostle affirme that God hath chosen and that before the foundatioÌ„s of the world were laid So that we haue Gods election before all beginning planely proued Here might I bring furth many places but I hauing respect to breuitie stand content with this one place That this he hath done once in his eternall and immutable couÌ„sell without respect to be had to our merites or workes which you alledge to be causes of Gods election witnesseth the same Apostle proceding as foloweth who haeth prâ—destinat vs that he should adoptat vs in children by Iesus Christe according to the good pleasure of his will that the glorie of his grace by the which he hath made vs deare by that beloued may be praised In whom we haue redemption and by his blood remission of sinne according to his aboundant grace of the which he hath plentifully poured vpon vs all wisdom and prudence opening to vs the secrete of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him self to the dispeÌ„sation of the fulnes of tymes summarely to restore all things by Christe bothe those that be in the heauens and those that be in the earth by whom we are chosen in a portion or lott predestinate according to the purpose of him by whose power are all thinges made according to the
the deuill which did manifestly ganesay gods reueled will And therefor do we affirme that neither was the purpose nor counsell of God any cause of sinne but we say with the Apostle that by one man did sinne enter into the world The cause whereof was the malice of the deuill and that fre consent of man to rebelliō whose will was neither inforced neither yet by any violence of gods purpose compelled to consent but he of fre will and redie mynd left God ād ioyned with the deuil Conuict vs now if ye can that we make gods absolute ordinance which maner of speaking I say we abhorre to be the principall cause of sinne Albeit that ye wold be sene subtill in adding your ▪ Logicall termes Causa causae ād Causa causata yet doeth your similitude which ye bring furth for demonstration of your purpose declare that either ye haue not learned orels that ye haue forgottē the chief and principall point of right reasoning which all reasonable men confesse to be rightly to diuide For if ye can not diuide betwext the will of God working all thinges for his own glorie ād the operation of creatures be they Son Moone sterres rayn or dew who can work nothing but as God hath appointed I will not folow you as a God We say not that gods ordinance is the cause of reprobation but we affirme that the iust causes of reprobation are hid in the eternall counsell of God and knowen to his godlie wisdō alone but the causes of sinne of death and damnation are euident and manifestly declared to vs in the scriptures to witt mānes fre will consenting to the deceiuable persuasiō of the deuill wilfull sinne and volūtarie rebellion by which entred death into this world the cōtempt of graces and gods mercies offered with the heaping vp of sinne vpon sinne till damnation iustly came These causes I say of sinne death and damnation are plainely noted vnto vs in gods holie scriptures But why it pleased God to shew merice to som and deny the same to others becaus the iudgementes of God are a deuoring depthe we enter not in reasoning with him but with all humilitie render thankes to his Maiestie for the grace and mercie which we doubt not but of his fre grace we haue receaued in Christ Iesus our onely head When you shall further charge vs that we make God autor of euill we haue good hope plainely to conuict your vennemous tongues of a most malicious lie Now to your wordes THE ADVERSARIE The Lord reasoneth with the inobedient Israelites which did forsake him saing O my people what haue I done vnto the or wherein haue I hurt the giue me answer If the Israelites had ben so well learned as you they might haue answered Lord thow hast preordinate us by thy immutable decre to fall away frome the so that of necessitie we must perish in this hast thow hurt vs with an vncurable wounde ANSWER How so euer we be learned if ye betimes repent not your vnreuerēt skoffing ād iesting at gods eternal predestination ye shall learn in experience that the immutable decre of God is most iust by the which y e fyre which neuer shall be quenched is prepared for the deuill and his angels and for all such as with trembling do not fear his godlie Maiestie and with sobrietie do not contemplat his iudgementes incomprehensible And thus I leaue your blasphemous boldnes to be repressed by the power of him whose iudgementes you mocke THE ADVERSARIE Now I intend with the helpe of God to answer to the arguments which they that be intangled with this error vse to alledge for the proof thereof leauing such as be ▪ but vaine and ingender rather contention then edefying answering to such as some most weghtie collected of certen places of the scriptures wherby it may be thoght that they may be deceaued beseching the gentill reader to wey the mater with an indifferent balance and first heare before thow refuse and God willing thow shalt not repent the of thy labor but forasmuch as the autor ād maīteners of this error do often make mention of election whereby they wold cloke their absurditeis I will first declare how election is taken in the scriptures thre maner of waies that is generally specially and most specially of all first we be all chosen and created in Christe Iesu as Paule witnesseth to the Ephesians in the first and second chapter and conforme to this election he lightned all them that cam into the world and calleth all men to repentance bothe greate and small riche and poore Iew and gētil male and female of all estates without respect of any person And all that be thirstie he calleth to come to the water of lief Secondly he commandeth them which com at the first calling to renounce father ād mother wief and childe with all other earthlie thinges yea and them selues also This is the secounde election where there departed an innumerable multitude which will not forsaik such thinges but for their own lustes Here departed Cayn with the monstrouse Giātes cruell tyrants and bloodie hypocrites and all persecuters which shed innocent bloode here departed Epicurus with all his bellie gods among which was the riche glotton which dispised Lazarus there departed Sardanapalus accompanied with venus and all that be drowned in the lustes of the fleshe Among which was Herodias There departed Cresus with many rich welthie persons among which was the rich yong man of whom we read in the Gospell that with a sorie countenance he departed frō Christe There departed Tarquinius the proude with such as be puft vp with the Pompe glorie of this world Among which was Herode◠of whom we read in the Actes of the Apostles that for his pryde he was striken of God and eaten of lyse There departed Demetrius the siluer smithe with such as will not forsak◠their filthie lucre Amongest which were the maister and mastres of the damsell possessed with a spirit that prophecied There departed a hole band of Stoikes with their destinie plaing fastor loose and that of necessitie which passeth all iuglers coming Among them are all such as defend that of mere necessitie a few nōber must be saued and of mere necessitie all the rest of the world must be condemned Who so abideth this seconde election and calling Christ commandeth them to take vp their crosse and folow him And thus to continue to the end this is the third and last election of which saieth the Lord I haue chosen the in the fire of tribulation here the seuentie disciples departed for they can not abyde this hard saing here doeth Iudas trudge they which remayn suffer greate assaultes in so much that som tyme they turn there backes to their enemies as the Apostles did when Christ was taken and there do worthie soldiours stagger stumble and fall as Peter when he denied his master and swore he knew him not And Thomas
his vessell plaÌ„te a tre to be barren or kil any of his subiects we send you as befor to ask couÌ„sel at the plaine scriptures whether â—in God there is not a greater knowledge greater power aÌ„d a iustice more perfect althogh it be incoÌ„preheÌ„sible to o r dulseÌ„ses theÌ„ y t their is in y e potter husboÌ„d maÌ„ or Magistrate How that God wil not the death of the sinner but rather that he may conuerte and liue we shall shortlie God wiliÌ„g after speak And therefor omitting that which indigestly you heape togither I procede to that which foloweth THE ADVERSARIE Where ye replie w t that it lieth not in maÌ„nes will or ronning but in the mercie of God I answer by the same senteÌ„ce y t we may both will aÌ„d roÌ„ne which is coÌ„trarie to your hole purpose aÌ„d doctrine aÌ„d yet saieth the Apostle our saluatioÌ„ depeÌ„deth of the mercie of God for it is his fre gift The GeÌ„tiles w c for their wickednes wer reiect of God in vaine should they either wil or ronne w tout God exteÌ„ded his mercie towardes theÌ„ as he doeth now preseÌ„tly Lyke as on the other side the Iewes which for their sinnes be now abiect in vaine should they either wil or roÌ„ne without it pleased God to extend his mercie ouer theÌ„ as he shal do after that the fulnes of the GeÌ„tiles become in as witnesseth Paul â–ª for there we must vnder staÌ„d that wheÌ„ it pleased God to offer vs his mercie yet without we both will and ronne we shall not obtein the reward notwithstanding neither for our willing or ronning are we worthie to receaue saluation for it is the fre gift of God which he giueth to vs onely for his own mercies saik God offered saluation to Ierusalem not for the deseruing but of his mâ—rcie yet obteined they not saluation because they wold neither will nor ronne As Christ saieth how often wold I haue gathered thy children as the hendoeth her chekens and thow woldest not so the scribes and the Phariseis made the counsell of God towardes them of none effect for they dispised it Gods will was to saue them but they wold neither will nor ronne but kepe still their old passeâ— so they perished Wherefor vnto our saluation is required chiefly the mercie of God as the onely sufficient and the efficient cause thereof wherby we being vnworthie and his ennemies be reconciled and receaued vnto the feloship of the saintes Secondly is required that we both will and ronne not as the cause but rather as the effect anâ— frute of our reconciliaâ—ion declaring our selues to be thankfull for the benefits which we haue frely without our merits receaued otherwies the kingdoâ— shal be â—aken from vs againe and geuen to such as shall boâ—h will and ronne bringing furth the fruts thereof ANSWER Your ancient father Pelagius coniured ennemie to the fre grace of God did bragge and boast as you do that in man there was a will and a ronning But the probation of bothe is one that is to say your affirmation must suffice for auctoritie You boldly write that of those wordes of the Apostle neither it is of him that willeth neithâ—r yet of him that ronneth but of God hauing mercie it is plaine that we bothe will and ronne But how is this proued your long discourse in which it semeth that ye haue forgotten your self proueth no part of your purpose for the question is not what either the Iew or y e geÌ„till doeth ImeaÌ„ after they haue receaued the grace of God For theÌ„ we confesse that they haue yet not of theÌ„ selues a will aÌ„d studie to walk in godlines but the question is whether this wil aÌ„d studie which now by grace they haue receaued was anie cause of their election the contrarie whereof we haue before proued We do not imagine the faithfull meÌ„bres of Christes bodie to be stockes or stones insensible without will or studie of godlines â–ª but we affirme that it is God that worketh in vs the good will and the good thoght for of our selues we are not sufficient to think one good thoght We further affirme that except with all humilitie the fre grace offered with thankes giuing be receaued that they serue nothing to the saluation of the coÌ„temners But therewith we adde that it is God onely who taketh away the stonie and stubborne heart and giueth to vs a fleshie heart In which he by the power of his holie Spirit writeth his law maketh vs to walk in his wayes draweth vs to his Sonne Christ Iesus giueth vs into his protection I mean as faith assureth vs in our conscience aÌ„d so we acknowledge God alone by Christ Iesus his sonne to be the beginning the middes and the end of our sanctification godlie lief and saluation I for my part do yet againe praise God that his veritie is of that strength that somtymes it will compell the verie ennemies to bear testimonie to it And I pray God to retein you in that mynd that vnfeanedly you may beleue aÌ„d coÌ„fes that what vertues or good motions that euer be in you be the onely effects or fruites as ye call them of your reconciliation and neither cause of your election nor yet of your iustification That Ierusalem and the scribes refused grace and therefor iustly were condemned we consent with you but that euer it was the eternall couÌ„sell aÌ„d will of God to giue them life euerlasting that we constantly deny Our reasons we haue before alledged and after will haue occasion to repete som againe And therefor we procede Thus ye write THE ADVERSARIE Here with great vehemencie ye alledge these wordes of Paule who hath ben able to resist his wil of which saying ye inferre that God without any cause knowen to vs hath reprobated and damned many against which wil no man can resist These wordes did Paule write because he did foresee that of his former sainges som deuelish disposed persons wold take occasion to burden God with vnrighteousnes as ye do making him the author of euill for ye say that God hath a secrete will whereby he willeth the most parte of the world to be condemned which will because it can not be resisted therefor of mere necessitie by the immutable decre of God so many do perish further ye this affirming God to be the cause of damnation onely because it so hath pleased him ye cause many other to burst owt and say Sithe his will and pleasure no man is able to resist let him lay it on him self and not to vs if any sinne be committed and surely for my parte were it not I abhorre your horrible doctrine wherwith ye cruelly affirme gods ordinaÌ„ce to be the cause of damnation I wold not medle further in this mater but with reuereÌ„ce behold the workes of God forasmuch as I se thankes be to God no work of God wheriÌ„ his mercie doeth not clerely shyne But if your saying were true
be which deserueth praise MaÌ„ therefor falleth gods prouidence so ordeining but yet he falleth by his own fault for God of short time before had pronouÌ„ced that all which he had made were verey good frome wheÌ„ce theÌ„ came such wickednes to maÌ„ y t he so traterously declyned froÌ„ his God Lest that it might haue bene through that that it proceded frome the creation God approued by his own commendation whaâ— so euer he had made Therefor did man corrupt by his own malice that pure and clean nature which from God he had receaued aÌ„d by his fall he drew his hole posteritie to perditioÌ„ Therefor let vs rather behold the euident cause of damnatioÌ„ in the corrupt nature of mankind then that we shall pretend to searche it being his and vtterly incompreheÌ„sible in the predestination of God neither yet let vs be ashamed so far to subiect the capacitie of our vnderstanding to the incomprehensible wisdom of God that in manie of his mysteries we acknowledge and confesse our selues to be ignorant for learned and blessed is the ignorante of those thinges which to vnderstaÌ„d and know is neither lawfull neither yet possible in this life The apperance of knowledge in such thiÌ„ges is a kynd of madnes These be the wordes of this most godlie writer frome whose iudgement none of vs doeth dissent in this mater For froÌ„ him we must confesse except that we wold in concealing the trueth declare our selues to be vnthankfull that we all haue receaued comfort light and erudition as from gods good instrument who yet thus further procedeth There be thre thinges saeth he in this mater to be considered first that the eternall predestination of God by the which he had decreed what should becom of all maÌ„kynd yea and of euerie man euen befor that Adam fell was sure and appointed Secondly that Adame for his defection was iustly adiudged to death and last that in the personne of him that then was lost was damned his hole posteritie aÌ„d yet neuertheles God did frely choose of the same such as vpon whom it pleased him to bestow the â—onor of adoption and yet after in the same place he saieth when we speak of predestination I haue constantly taught and this day do teach that frome thence we oght to begin that iustly are all reprobat left in death who were dead and damned in Adame that iustly they perishe who by nature are the sonnes of wrath And therefor that none hath cause to complein of gods rigorous seueritie seing that all do bear the cause of damnation within them selues for if we shall com to the first man we shall find that willingly he fell and so by his one faule he broght perdition to all his posteritie And albeit that Adam fell not but that God both knew and ordeined thesame yet serueth that nothing nether to extenuat and excuse his crime nether yet to wrap God in societie of the same for alwaes must we looke to this that he spoiled him self of the righteousnes which he receaued from God that willingly he made him selfe seruant to sinne and to sathan that without compulsion he cast him self headlong in to destruction and death yet resteth one excuse to witt that he could not auoid nor flie that which was decreed by God but his voluntarie transgression is sufficient to his condemnation nether yet is the secrete counselle of God the proper and naturall cause of sinne but the fre and plaine will of man And there for seing that man findeth in him self the cause of his miserie what shall it profitt him to seke it in the heauen And after albeit that men by long compassing about purpose to delude them selues yet can they neuer make them selues so brutishe and dull but they shall fele the sense of sinne grauen in their heartes Therefor in vaine is it that vngodlines goeth about to absolue man whom his own conscience damneth In so far as God willing and knowing permitted man to fall the â–ª cause may be secrete and hid but vniust it can not be And yet he further writeth this saieth he is to be holden without all controuersie that sinne was euer hatefull to God for most rightely doth this commendation wherewith of Dauid he is commended aggre to him that he is a God that wold not iniquitie but rather in ordeining the fall of maÌ„ his eÌ„d and purpose was good and most right frome the which the name of sinne abhorreth howbeit I say that so he hath ordeined the fall of man that I vtterly denie him to be the author of sinne Let the indifferent reader iudge with equitie if iustly we be accused of that blasphemie which so openlie we abhorre but yet in the same book he bringeh furth a testimonie of Augustine who thus writeth These be the great workes of God saieth Augustine broght to passe in all his willes and so wisely broght to passe that whill the nature of Angell and man had sinned that is had done not that which he that is God wold but that which the self meaning the creature wold yet not the les by the same will of the creature by the which that was done which the creator wold not did he fulfill that which he wold he being infinitely good vsing well those thiÌ„ges that were euil to the damnation of them whom he iustly had appointed to paine and to the saluation of those whom mercifully he had predestinate to grace In so far as to them perteined they did the thing which God woâ—d not but as apperteining to gods omnipotencie they might by no meanes haue done that for euen in that that they did against the will of God the will of God was done in them and therefor great are the workes of the Lord broght to passe in all his willes that by a woÌ„derous and vnspeakable maner that thing should not be done without his will that yet is don agaiÌ„st his will foâ— it should not be done if he did not suffer it And of a trueth he suffered it not vnwilingly but willingly And a litil before saint Augustin saieth it is not to be doubted but that God doeth well permitting those thinges to be done which are euil for he suffered not this but in his iust iudgement Albeit therefor that these thinges which be euill in so far as they ar euill are not good yet neuertheles it is good that not onely good thinges but also that euill thinges be for if that this were not good that euil thinges should be by no meanes should they be permited to be by the omnipoteÌ„t good to whom no doubt it is a like easie not to suffer the thing which he will not to be as to do that thing which he will except we beleue this the beginning of our faith is indangered by the which we professe our selues to beleue in God the father almightiâ— c. And in the end to answer to these calumnies which ye haue taken furth of Pighius that papist
Iohn Caluin concludeth if euer I had said that it came to passe by the instruction or motion of the spirit of God that the first man did alienat him self frome God and not that rather I haue in al places defended that man was pricked thereto by instigation of the deuill and by the motion of his own heart theÌ„ meritably might Pighius and his coÌ„plices haue railed agaiÌ„st me But seing that I remouing froÌ„ God the verey cause of the actioÌ„ do also remoue from him all crime so that man onely is subiect aswell to the crime as to the punishment wickedly and maliciously is this laid to my charge that I should say that mannes defection and fall is one of gods workes But yet lest y t one thing should appere to lacke of our full doctrine I will recite his wordes which he writeth against the libertines in the 14 chapter of that worke we do not deny saieth he but that all thinges are done by the will of God In so much that wheÌ„ we declare wherefor he is called omnipotent we geue to him an effectuall power in all his creatures and we teach that as once he created the vniuersall world so also that he gouerneth the same And that his haÌ„d is alwaies at the work that he might kepe all thinges in their estate and dispose them after his will And to the end that I may expreâ—â—e the same more easely I say that God is to be considered thre maner of waies to work in the administration or his creature first there is an vniuersall operation by the which he directeth all creatures according to the conditioÌ„ and proprietie which he gaue to euerie one when he formed them and this gouernemeÌ„t is nothing els but that which we call the order of nature for albeit the vnfaithfull know nothing in the disposition of the world but that which they se with their eies And therefor they make nature as she were a goddesse to haue impire and dominion ouer all yet is this praise to be giuen to the will of Godâ— that it onely doeth moderat aÌ„d gouern all thinges Wherefor when we se the son the moon and the sterres fulfill their course Let vs vnderstand that they obey God that they execuâ—e his commandement yea and that they are guided by the hand of God And also when we se the course of earthlie thiÌ„ges all thinges are to be ascribed to God The creatures are to be estemed but as instruments in his haÌ„d which he applieth to the work euen as pleaseth him The scripture doeth often make mention of this vniuersall prouidence that we may learn in all his workes to giue glorie vnto God But chiefly in vs doeth God commeÌ„d this his power that we shall know it in our selues to the end that we may be purged of arrogancie which sodanly vseth to arise in vs how son we forgett our selues to be in his haÌ„des Hereunto apperteineth that which Paul said to those of Athenes It is he in whom we liue are moued and haue our being By the which he wold admonish vs that except God vp hold vs by his hand that vnable it is for vs to stand the least moment of time for euen as the soule dispersing her streÌ„gthe throughe the hole bodie moueth the meÌ„bres so are we qwickened of God form whome onely we obtein what so euer strength or power we haue But this vniuersall operation of God impedeth not but that euery â—reature in heauen and in earth retein their own nature and qualitie and also do folow their own inclination The second maner by the which God worketh in his creatures is that he appointeth them in obedience of his goodnes iustice and iudgement somtymes to help his seruantes somtymes to punishe the wicked and somtimes to examin the pacience of his seruantes or to correct and chasten them with a fatherly affectâ—on as when he will giue vs aboundance of frutes he giueth rain in his time he sendeth heat by the son and bright and clear daies as also he vseth all other naturall meanes as instruments of his liberalitie But when he pulleth back his hand the heauen is made like brasse the eaâ—th is yron and so it is he that sendeth thonder frost hale and also it is he that is the cause of sterilitie and barennes Therefor what so euer the Ethnicks and ignorant did attribute to fortune we assigne to the prouideÌ„ce of God Not onely to that vniuersall operation of the which we haue before spoken but to his especiall ordinance by the which he gouerneth all as he knoweth it to be most expedieÌ„t and profitable and this he teacheth when by his Ptophetes he saieth that he created darknes aÌ„d light that he sendeth death and lief that neither good nor euill can chaÌ„ce but froÌ„ his haÌ„d In so much that he saieth that he doeth gouern aÌ„d direct the lottes Yea if that any maÌ„ by chaÌ„ce and not of set purpose be slain he auoweth him self to be the cause of his death and that so he had appointed that we shall iudge nothing to com of fortune but that all cometh by the determination of his counsell And further it displeaseth him wheÌ„ we esteme any thing to procede from any other so that we do not behold him and know him not onely the principall cause of all thinges but also as the author appointing all thinges to the one part or the other by his counsell Thus let vs then conclude that prosperitie and aduersitie rayn wyndes hale frost fare wether aboundance hunger warre or peace to be the workes of God and that the creatures which be the inferior causes are onelie instrumeâ—tes which he hath in redines to execute his will which he so vseth at his pleasure that he leadeth and moueth them to bring to passe what so euer he hath appointed Moreouer it is to be noted that not onlie he thus vseth his insensible creatures that by them he worketh his will but also men them selues yea and also deuilles insomuch that sathan and wicked men are executers of gods will as he vsed the Egypâ—ians to punishe his people and a litle after he raised vp the Assyrians and other such to reuenge the sinnes of his people we se that he vsed the deuil in tormenting Saul and in deceauing Achab. which thinges when the libertines doheare rashely and without iudgement beholding no further they conclude That now the creatures do no more work and so horribly do they confound all things nether do they onelie mingle and mixt the heauens with the earth but also they ioyn God with the deuil aÌ„d that chanceth vnto them becaus they do not obserue two most necessarie exceptions The former is that Sathan and the wicked are not so the instrumentes of God but that they also do theire own partes Nether must we imagin that God so worketh by wicked men as by a stock or a stone but as by a creature participant of reason c. When we say
to perfourme but by the euil as by sathan and wicked meÌ„ in so far as they are not regenerat as oft as God doth execute the iust counselles and decreis of his eternall will he declareth his own strength and efficacie in his work by them which they do ether ignoraÌ„tly orels against their purpose And yet in so far as they worke God worketh not in theÌ„ but he louseth the bridle to sathan to whom by his iust iudgement he giueth them ouer to be moued and possessed forwarde to all iniquitie that they may be caried to perdition euen by the instigation of the deuil and by their own propre will Thus haue you briefly the som of our doctrin in this mater which if ye be able by manifest scriptures or yet by good argumeÌ„tes from the same deduced to improue theÌ„ caÌ„ we not refuse to make satisfactioÌ„ as the Church of Christ Iesus shall require of vs. But if that vniustly ye haue accused vs and haue further imputed crueltie vpon God by reason that his iudgemeÌ„tes most iust in them selues are to your senses incompreheÌ„sible theÌ„ can we not of conscience cease to require of you a greater modestie aÌ„d also of the lawfull Magistrate an ordre to be takeÌ„ that your malice aÌ„d vennon may be repressed assuring them that if by tymes your interprises be not impeded that they shall shortly fele what confusion ye haue of long fostered in your breastes your poison is more pestilent theÌ„ that of the papistrie was in the beginning God for his mercies saik preserue his Churche and purge your heartes to his glorie Towching the secrete will of God which so oft ye lay to our charge we shall after speak as also how God will that all repent and that all be saued Before I haue declared that this difference must we make betwext God and man be he neuer so poteÌ„t that God hath such power ouer his creatures that he reuleth them at his pleasure and is not a simple law giuer which onely can deuise good lawes and giue commandement that they may be kept but can not thogh he wold frame the heartes of his subiectes to obedience Such imperfection I say can we not admitt in our God who doth aÌ„d hath done what so euer he will in heauen and in earth And so your similitude of the king commaÌ„ding and of the poorest sclaue offending halteth aÌ„d is imperfect for God hath greater power ouer all creatures yea euen ouer the king him self theÌ„ the king hath ouer his sclaue for the sclaue when he hath offended by som meanes he may escaip the kinges handes and so the punishemeÌ„t of his lawes But so can not the king the handes of God Consider the inequalitie betwext God and maÌ„ I say and then I trust your iudgemeÌ„t shall ether be reformed or els ye coÌ„streined to deuise more solide reasoÌ„s I haue not learned in the scriptures to call the corruption of our nature by the which we rebell against gods commandement power but rather impotentie and thraldome But ceasing to contend or striue for termes I wonder what ye meaÌ„ by your conditional which thus ye forme otherwies that is if we had no power to offend against gods will we should all obserue the will of God and be saued and so do you conclude there should be no reprobation I will not commonly scoffe at you as your foolishnes deserueth but here I must say that this your reason is no better then if I shuld affirme that there is no difference betwext fowles of the ayr and the rest of the creatures of the earth because that if all creatures had winges and lyke agilitie that then all creatures shuld flie aswell as the fowles and so should there in that case be no difference Your reason hath no greater strengthe for it standeth onely vpon conditionalles whereof ye iustly can conclude nothing Proue if ye can that it was and is the immutable couÌ„sel of God that all should be saued aÌ„d theÌ„ ye may proue that there shal be none reprobate But now we followe as ye procede THE ADVERSARIE As for the sentence of Paule God willing to shew his wrathe to make his power knowen suffered with long pacience the vesselles of wrath ordeined to damnation c. it is direct contrarie to your error not withstanding ye abuse it to maintein the same For seing as Paul saieth God suffered them with greate pacieÌ„ce he is sorie for them if he be sorie theÌ„ hath he no pleasure in their destructioÌ„ aÌ„d that wherein he hath no pleasure he willeth it not and that w c he willeth not he doth not ordein it Wherefor seing God suffered theÌ„ with greate pacieÌ„ce to fall he hath not ordeined theÌ„ to fall y n dispisest saieth S. Paule y e riches of gods goodnes aÌ„d patieÌ„ce aÌ„dloÌ„g sufferaÌ„ce not knowing that y e kindnes of God leadeth the to repeÌ„taÌ„ce behold here the cause why God suffered with long pacience is that we should repent and amend If they had ben absolutely ordeined to damnation afore the foundation of the world â–ª then God knew they should neuer repent and amend to what purpose then suffered he them with loÌ„g pacience Notwith standing this is plaine ynowgh â–ª aÌ„d conform to the word â–ª yet ye dispising what so euer is contrarie to your mynd ye stik fast to the literall sense of thâ—se wordes ordeined to damnation which wordes be spoken after the common maner of speaking as they be called after the common phrase of speach ordeined to damnatioÌ„ whose end is damnation we vse to say of a man that is cast to be hanged this man was born to be hanged not with standing it was not his mothers mynd to beare him to be haÌ„ged Such phrases haue we verey many in the scriptures as Exod. 11 Pharao harkened not vnto you that many wonders may be done in the land of Egipt forasmuch as the wonders done in Egipt were greuous to Pharao he did not disobey the intent that mo wonders which were plagues should com vpon him but this was the issue of his obstinat inobedienco Exod. the XIX who so euer giueth his sede vnto Moloch let him be slayn because he hath geuen of his sede vnto Moloch to defyle my Sanctuarie and to pollute my holie Name The Israelites did not sacrifice their children to Moloch to defyle the lordes sanctuarie and to dishonor the Name of God but to worship Moloch notwithstanding that was the issue and end of their sacrifice vnto Moloch that the Lordes sanctuarie was defiled and his Name dishonored Thereby Ieroboam made the two golden claues wherby he made Israel sinne to anger the Lord God of Israel The cause why Ieroboam made the two golden claues and his intention was not to anger God but he thoght that if the people should go vp aÌ„d do sacrifice in the howse of the Lorde at IerusaleÌ„ there heartes shulde return to Roboam king of Iuda wherefor he made
iudgementes against the inobedient and do consider how prone and redie they them selues be of nature to rebellioÌ„ against God except they were coÌ„ducted by his spirit they com to a more liuelie feling of gods fre mercie grace by the which onely they are exempte frome the rank and societie of the reprobate Albeit that these endes causes of gods long suffering of the vesselles of wrath do not satisfie you yet I doubt not but gods afflicted childreÌ„ wil and do take comfort of the same you thus procede in your sophisticall Sorites If he be sorie say you then hath he no pleasure in their destruction And that where in he hath no pleasure he willeth it not and that which he willeth not he doth not ordein it wherefor seing God suffereth them to fall with greate pacience he hath not ordeined them to fall Your foundation being fals your hole building falleth by y e own weight Before ye procede any further ye must proue y t God did suffer in the vesselles of wrath that which he nether could nor might remedie and therefor that he fell in greif and sorow that his power was no greater and his wisdom no perfiter Wo be to your blasphemies for they coÌ„pell me to write that which I gladly wold not I haue before said that God nether hath pleasure in destructioÌ„ nether yet that he will the death of the sinner absolutely y t is hauing none other respect but to their torment and pain onely But albeit pryde and malice will not suffer you to grante that God hath created all thinges for his own glorie yet will not he be suppliante vnto you that ye shall suffer him to vse his creatures at his own good pleasure Where vpon these wordes of the Apostle doest thow dispyse the riches of gods goodnes not knowing that the kyndnes of God leadeth the to repentance ye inferre that the cause why God suffereth with long pacience is that we should repent and amend If you vnderstand that God suffered his elect euen in the tyme of their blyndnes yea and after their horrible falles and offenses with great lenitie and gentlenes to the end that afterward they may repent I do aggre with you for so he did with Dauid Manasses Paule and many others who after their conuersion did not dispyse gods lenitie but did magnifie and praise the same as in all their confessions may be red But if you vnderstand Paules wordes so that God hath none other end in that his long suffering but that the reprobate shal repent and amend their wickednes because the holie Gost assigneth other causes as before we haue declared I must preferre his iudgement and sentence to yours To your vnreuerent bolde and furious question in which ye aâ—k to what purpose did God suffer them with loÌ„g pacience whom before he knew shoulde neuer repent nor amend I can answer none other wies then I haue done before except that this I adde that if ye be not conteÌ„t that gods iust wrath and greate power shall aswell be manifested both in this world and in the life to com vpon the vesselles of wrath as that his mercie the riches of his glorie shall be praised and extolled in the vesselles of mercie that experience which the common prouerbe calleth maistres to fooles shall teach you that it nothing profited the Gyantes of whom the poetes do speak to heap vp mountane vpon mouÌ„tane of purpose to besiege Iupiter in the heauens To vse the wordes of scripture if be tymes ye cease not so vnreuerently to questioÌ„ with God you shall fele for euer what torment is prepared for such as with humilitie can not be subiect to his iudgementes incoÌ„preheÌ„sible for if ye shall constrein his Maiestie to giue you a reason which ye may vnderstand and apprehend what do you elles theÌ„ go aboute to spoile him of his Godhead We stick none other wies to the literall sense of these former wordes of the Apostle then the rest of scriptures permitt and do teach vs. But how proper be your phrase and common maner of speaking by the which ye labor to obscure the plaine wordes of y e Apostle we briefly shall examin Ordeined to damnation say you after the common maner of speach doth signifie no more but whose end is damnation To grant you som what I wold know of you who hath ordeined damnation to be the eÌ„d of the reprobat I perceaue by your exemple that ye dare not say God for thus ye say we vse to say of a man that is cast to be hanged this maÌ„ was born to be hanged notwithstanding that was not his mothers mynd to bear him to be hanged Besides the foolishe rudenes of this exemple I wonder at your madnes that you can neuer make difference betwext God and earthly creatures Dare you say that God hath no greater power nor foreknowledge in directing and appointing his creatures to their endes then the mother hath to direct forse and appoint the end of her child after that she hath born him she knoweth not what shal be his naturall inclination althogh she instruct and correct him yet can she not bow aÌ„d expell his crooked nature when he is absent from her presence she seeth not his conuersation If he be deprehended in theft or murther and so cast to be hanged she can not althogh she wold delyuer him from the handes of the iudge But is there any of these imperfections in God Consider yet and let reason at length put silence vnto your foolishenes Where of the wordes of Moises of Hoseas Ieremie and Paul aÌ„d of the fact of Ieroboam ye go about to proue that phrase in that sense w c ye adduce to be common in scriptures I am in dowt whether that first I shall lameÌ„t yo r blynd ignoraÌ„ce or abhorre detest yo t abhominable lies horrible prophanatioÌ„ of gods most holie worde It is impossible â— t ignoraÌ„ce hath so blynded you all y t none of you caÌ„ se y e diuersitie betwext tho semaner of speaches God hath suffered y e vesselles of wrath ordeined to destruction these Pharao shall not heare you y t many woÌ„ders may be wroght c. Giue not of thy sede to be offered to Moloch c. I will set my face agaiÌ„st such aÌ„ maÌ„ I will rout him out from the midest of his people because that he hath giuen of his sede to Moloch that he might defyle my Sanctuarie prophain my holie Name And so furth of all the rest for onelie the place of the Apostle after the english phrase and speach may be rightly translated to condemnation I appeall to thy conscience thow manifest corruptor of gods scriptures if in all the places by the alledged there be not this particle Vt which is a causal and not the preposition In which is in the wordes of S. Paul And hath malice so bereft the of knowledge that thow canst make
aduertisement of those coÌ„gregations no les then that which is conteined in these words by you rehearsed Then let vs heare what is writen and spoken by him in this mater I sawe saith he foure Angelles standing vpon the foure corners of the earth holding the foure windes of the earth that the windes shoulde not blow vpon the earth c. And I saw an other angell ascending from the vprising of the sonne c. And he cryed with a loude voice to the foure Angelles to whom power was giuen to hurt the earth the sea saying hurt not the earth nether the sea nether yet the trees vntil we haue sealled the seruantes of our God in their foreheades I pray you why were these who were to be marked in the foreheades more called the seruantes of God by the voice of the Angell then others I knowe you will answer because of their good workes and godlie intentions But from whence I praie you did it procede that y e workes and intention of the one sort were good and of the other wicked If you say from their own fre wil and power the holie Gost doth proue you liers as before I haue declared and our Apostle assigneth also an other cause saing And power was giuen to the beast vpon all tribes tongues and natioÌ„s and all those that dwelt vpon the earth did worship him whose names are not writen in the book of life of the lambe who was killed from the beginning of the worlde Here it is plaine that our Apostle against your affirmation teacheth that some do worship the beast and so do finally perish and other do not worship him and attein to life â–ª that because the names of the one are written in the booke of life and the names of the others are not written and that more plainely he speaketh in these wordes Then I loked and lo a lambe standing on the mount Zion w t him a hundreth fortie foure thousand hauing his fathers name written in their foreheades c. and they sang as it were a newe songe before y e throne and before the foure beastes the elders none coulde learne the song except those hundreth fortie and foure thousand which were boght from the earth c. and aftre in the 17 chapt is mencioned of these inhabitantes of the earth who shall wonder vpon the beastwhose names are not written in the book of life from y e creation of the worlde if in these places I say y e Apostle maketh no differeÌ„ce betwext one sort of men an other let y e reader iudge if there be differeÌ„ce betwext boght not boght writteÌ„ in y e book of life not writteÌ„ to learn y e newe â—og not to learne y e same theÌ„ no dowt o r Apostle putteth as plaine a differeÌ„ce as we do yea y e hole scope of his reuelatioÌ„ is to declare y t there is a noÌ„bre of y â— elect called y e spouse of y e laÌ„be whoÌ„ it behoueth to be coÌ„plete before y â— coÌ„sumatioÌ„ of all thiÌ„gs com before y t y e iÌ„noceÌ„t blood that hath bene shed be reueÌ„ged vpoÌ„ those y t dwell vpon the earth and therefore aduise with your selues how ye be able to proue that S. Iohn taught no such doctrine as we teach But admitting that he had neuer spoken nether yet of any nombre chosen that can not fall vtterly from their election nether yet of any nombre reprobate who must nedes be apprehended with the beast and with him be cast into the lake of fyre Is it therefore a good argument that all those that teach such maner of doctryne be fals teachers or that no such doctryne is conteined in the holie Scriptures I wil make the like reason Nether Moises nether Iohn the Baptist in any expressed wordes haue left to vs written â–ª that Christ Iesus shoulde be born of a virgin that he shoulde suffer in Ierusalem â–ª that his disciples should all be sclaÌ„dered and flee from him that he shoulde rise againe and ascending into the heauen shoulde send the holie Gost visibly vpon his Apostles nether Moises I say nether yet Iohn who were excellent teachers haue taught in expressed wordes any such doctrine Ergo the teachers of it be fals teachers it is not written in gods scriptures your argument is no better admitting that the Apostle had neuer made meÌ„tion of any sort elected But now shortly to answer to all which without purpose ye heape to gether in this place I say first ye oght to haue made a difference betwext those seuen congregations where Christ Iesus had bene preached and receaued and the rest of the worlde w c theÌ„ remained or after was to remaine in blindenes error for to those y t haue by publicke profession receaued Christ Iesus be they elect or be they reprobate do appertein exhortations threatning y e doctrine of repeÌ„taÌ„ce consolatioÌ„ propheciiÌ„g reuelatioÌ„ of thiÌ„gs to com but to those y t yet remaine manifest enemies of the trueth apperteine onelie y e coÌ„mon calling to eÌ„brace the trueth with the threatniÌ„g of destructioÌ„ if they contiune vnfaithfull And therefore becaus these former coÌ„gregatioÌ„s as said is had professed them selues to be of gods housholde they were intreated as his domestical seruantes If any aske the cause why are som so amiably and others so strangely intreated I answer no other cause can be assigned but that it pleased gods infinit wisdome and goodnes to make that plaine and euident difference betwext those that once be receaued in his houshold be it by externall profession onely and those that remaine in blindenes that the one he commonly doth visit but the other he doth as it were neglect and destroy for what other cause can we assigne that God so louingly did often call to repentaÌ„ce the people of Israel so often offending from the daies of Moises vnto y e comming of Christ Iesus that he sent vnto them Prophetes to exhort to rebuke and to declare the estate of things to come and in this mean ceason the space of two thousand yeres permitted the Gentiles to walke in their own waies And now after the reiection of the Iewes what cause can we assigne that among vs Gentiles God vseth to stirre vp now one countrie now an other to receaue the trueth to detest and abhorre our former superstition Idolatrie and wickednes and of so long coÌ„tinuaÌ„ce hath left bothe y e Iewes turkes drowned still in their blindnes damnable errors we shall find none other cause I suppose then did the Apostle se when that he said to God are knowen all his workes euen froÌ„ the beginning and that he will reuele his secretes to such as please him ye do not heare in all this reuelation of Iohn that Babilon is exhorted to repeÌ„tance y t the blasphemous beast is rebuked ether of his tyranny ether of his blasphemie with any promes made to
the expressed image of his substance is greater then euer was Adam so is his power of greater vertue to saue the elect then Adams impotencie was to bring damnation vpon all Where ye ask if our election be surer now after the transgression then afore the transgression I answere the assurance and firmitie of our election was alwaies and at all times one For when we stode in Adam as ye alledge yet were we elected in Christ ▪ and when we fel in Adam then did our election burst for the and appere Ye be neuer able to proue that Cain was elected to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus for God loked not to Cain nor yet to his sacrifice as that he did to Abel And why because as the Apostle affirmeth the one offered in faith and the other without faith Remembre I pray you your former reason there is none say you elected without faith but Cain was without faith euen before he did kil or hate his brother therefor by your owne reason he was not in y e election no not euen before he hated I do not approue this argument but yet your former reason standing true it is inuincible Moises saieth not that God promised dominion to Cain ouer his lustes but saieth vnto thee shal his appetites or lustes be thow shall beare dominion ouer him which is not spoken of sinne but of Abel who as he was the yōger so was he appoīted to be subiect to Cain and to serue him and therefor most vniustly did he hate him It is the same phrase that before was spoken of the woman concerning her subiection to man Such as haue but mean knowledge in the hebrew text know well that bothe these articles be of the masculin gendre the substātiue which signifieth sinne in that place is of y e feminin gēdre therefor wil not y t proprietie of the tongue suffer y t dominion promised be referred to sinne where blasphemously ye aske if god gaue Cain no power to subdue his lust who was thē y e author of his sinne I answer Cain him self for he was not lyke to a dead and vnsensible sworde as ye adduce the similitude but he was a reasonable instrumēt infected by the venom of Satā from the whiche he not being purged could do nothing but serue the deuil and his owne lustes against gods expressed will and commandement I haue before proued taht God is the cause of no mās damnation but sinne in which they are fallen is the very cause which all reprobates do find in them selues Touching the fidelitie of God who suffereth none of his to be tempted aboue their strength it is onely true of Gods elect to whom it is plaine that Paul there speaketh for albeit that amonges the Corinthians there were many reprobates yet doth Paul addresse his style as it were to the elect Church of God calling them his beloued willing them to flie from idolatrie and speaking to them as vnto men indued with wisdome c. And therefore must ye first proue that Cain had as great testimonie of God that he was his elect as the Corinthians had of Paule y t they were beloued and elected in Christ before that ye can make this place to serue for him for albeit he did aduertise him what was his duetie to do yet doth it not thereof follow that he gaue him power to obey his will reueled nether yet power to resist all tentation To Pharao he did no les make manifest his will then that he did to Cain and yet of him he did before pronounce that he should not heare nor obey the voice of Moises I do not denie but that he stubbornly foresooke the counsell of God whiche mercifully called him But why did he and do all reprobate forsaik it we haue oft before declared to witt because the sede of God abideth not in them What was the benediction giuen after the floode vnto Noah and to his sonnes the holie Gost doth not conceale to witt multiplication preseruation and the restitutiō of all thinges as touching the order of nature like as they were before that vastation by reason of the waters which had so long continued In that place is no mention made of election to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus and therefor your connexion that Ham was not reprobat when he was blessed of God is foolishe for albeit that none can be both blessed and cursed loued and hated all at once in that degre of loue or of hatered w c God frely beareth in Christ to his elect and most iustlie hateth the reprobate for the causes knowen to his visdom yet in an other sort it is no repugnancie to say that God both blesseth and loueth in bestowing tempoall benedictions vpon such as in his eternall counsell he hath reiected and therefor hateth As it is no repugnancie to say that God bothe blesseth and loueth his elect children euen when most seruerely he doth chasten and punishe them To all y t which ye adduce of the Israelites my former answers may suffice for you be neuer able to proue that any of thē which was chosen to lief euerlasting did fall into death eternall It nothing hurt y ◠saluation of Moises albeit his bodie fell in the wildernes That place of Paule proueth not that all the Israelites which was called from Egypt were within gods holie election to lief euerlasting in Christ Iesus but doth proue y t they were all externally called and y t they did all cōmunicat with those externall signes and sacremēts w c did signifie represent spirituall thinges but he doth not affirm y t all did receaue y e spiritual and inward graces of the holie Gost. The mynd of the Apostle is plaine ynough in y t place to such as willingly list not blynd them selues For he exhorteth the Corinthians not to think it sufficient that they did commuicat with the sacramentes of Christ Iesus except that a godlie lief vnfeined obediēce to gods will reueled should be ioyned with the same for otherwise the same should happen vnto them that happened to the Israelites And therefor he saieth let him that standeth take hede lest he fall which is nothīg contrarie to our doctryne nether yet is our doctrine in any iote repugnant to y e holie Gost. for we did neuer denie but y t many who before mē had a faire glister of holynes yea which thoght thē selues sure in their own fantasie hath taken horrible falles bothe of one sort of y e other And vnto all mē we cry no les then you do that they tēpt them selues y t they take hede lest by slothfulnes they fall but y t any y t standeth in Christ Iesus and in the eternall counsale of God can so fall that finally he perishe that we cōstantly denie Behold how smothly God conducteth our tossed bote through the raiging waues of your furious argumentes The fall of the
Lord hath taken which is not to be vndersâ—aÌ„d that the Lord did take his goods but oâ—ely suffereâ— the deuil to take them So the Lord punished his people not that he touched them but I will hide my face from them will see what their end shal be saieth the Lord. After the same maner oght that place God hardened the heart of Pharao 〈◊〉 be vnderstand that it God suffered the heart of Pharaâ— to be hardened or left him in the hardnes of his heart which appereth to be so of that whâ—ch is wriâ—ten Exoâ—â—â—e 10. chapter how long refusest thou to submit thy self vnto me to let my people goe by this we see that the will of God was that Pharao should let the people gâ—o Secondly that Pharao â—id not subrnit himself to God that his â—ind was not conforme to gods mynd Thirdly â–ª in that he refused to let the people go it was his owne dede and actâ— not gods for if I should graâ—t that it was gods will that he should râ—fuse to let the people goo then did hâ— subrâ—yt him selfe to â—he will of the Lord which is coÌ„trarie to the word theÌ„ should God aÌ„d he haue bene both of one mynd And the will of God is all wayes good and iust â–ª whâ—ch you can not deny then Pharaâ— refusing to let the people go did well â—ustly forasmuch â–ª as it was gods will he should so doâ— wherfor Pharao oght not tâ— be punished for this good iust dede These such like 〈…〉 â—skape affirming Pharaos heart to haue been actually indured of God ANSWER How meane that euer our reasons be yet great cause we haue to giue thanks vnto God that ye in laboring w t all your wittes to oppugne obscure them are yet compelled by the inuincible grace of gods mercie to iustifie and illustrate the same which shall plainely appere by this your first answere which you make concerning the omnipotencie of God forasmuch say you as God is goodnes it self his wil is alawayes good yet maÌ„ is apte to do and may do euill contrary to gods will notwithstanding God remaineth omnipotent suffering man to do euill whome he might destroy afore he did euill if so pleased him and so ye bring forth y e example of Pharao I will not take in all points that aduaÌ„tage of you w c I think you wold take of vs most gladly if you had vs in such a streit as you haue here coÌ„cluded your selues for if maÌ„ may do euil contrary to gods will so that God for no respect for no end nor purpose wold that such wickednes should be donne for thus you must applie your words orels ye say nothiÌ„g against vs and yet that it pleaseth God not to destroy the wicked doer but to suffer him to do euill whome he might haue destroied before the iniquitie coÌ„mitted What shall I pray you ensue but that either there shal be in God two contrary willes one that willeth no wickednes in no wyes to be donne and an other that suffereth wickednes yea and that is pleased to suffre not to destroye the wicked maÌ„â— orels that there is a power aboue gods wil which compelleth him to suffer that which he wold not one of these two can you not auoyd But I wil dealle more fauorably with you Ye grant that God suffereth the euill and that he might destroy the wicked maÌ„ before iniquitie be committed if so pleased his godlie maiestie and wisdome Do ye not coÌ„sider that in this your confession is no les â—onteined then any of vs hath either written or spoken in this mater for if gods omnipotencie remaineth as no doubt it doth so perfecte and hole that he may not impede onely wicked men of their interprises but also y t he may destroy eueÌ„ SathaÌ„ him self if so pleased his eternal wisedoÌ„ what can be coÌ„cluded but y t God willingly for causes knoweÌ„ to his wisedome alone permitteth suffereth things to be doÌ„ne w c aâ—ter he will most iustly punish And thus I say doth you own answer confessioÌ„ iustifie o r doctrine for we do not teach y t wickednes pleaseth God in so farre as it is wickednes neither yet that God will sinfull actes to be donne in so farre as they are sinfull without any other further respecte But we say that as the actioÌ„s cogitatioÌ„s of the godly please God in Christ Iesus because they are wroght aÌ„d inspired by y e power of his holie spirit so y t the good workes as patieÌ„ce iustice chastitie suche lik God will to be doÌ„ne eueÌ„ because the works be good agreable to his owne nature so say we that God will yea and hath determined the works that be most wicked to be donne for y â— purposes causes coÌ„cluded in his eternal couÌ„sel Which thing if we be able to proue by the euideÌ„t scriptures of God theÌ„ oght you not to be offended althogh we preferre God to maÌ„ and his plaine trueth to your sophisticall euasioÌ„s colde interpretations of such places for the auoiding the prolixitie of many I will choose but two at y â— most plaine and most euident Is it not a great horrible sinne that a fals prophete shall come and deceause the people Yea is it not likwyes sin to deceaue y e Prophet and yet God feareth not to attribâ—t to him self bothe the one and the other for no fals prophete dothe arrise whoÌ„ God for one of two purposes doth not stirre vp to witt ether to trie and examin the coÌ„stancie fidelitie of his seruaÌ„tes orels to execute aÌ„d blind those who delite not in the veritie For Moises witnesseth in these words if in the middest of the there arrise a Prophet and he shal giue vnto the a signe and yet should say let vs go and serue straÌ„ge goddes heare him not for y e Lord your God tempteth you whether that ye wil loue your Lord your God with all your heart in all your fowle if it be the propre office of God to trye tempt and examin y e heartes of his people of his chosen children as the holie Gost affirmeth it to be Then must you confes that the fals prophetes be gods instrumentes appointed for that purpose And that God deceaueth the fals Prophet Ezechiel in plaine wordes doeth witnes saying aÌ„d if the Prophet deceaued speak the word I the Lord haue deceaued that Prophet and I will extend my hand against him and I will roote him out from the midest of my people Israel And the same doeth yet God hiÌ„ self more plainly vendicate to him self in that solemned proclamatioÌ„ made in the eares of the prophet Micheas aÌ„d boldly by him pronounced in audience of two kings Achas Iosaphat as foloweth who shall deceaue Achas to vs or who shall persuade him that he may passe vp and fall in Ramath galaad and there passed out a certen spirit standing before y e lorde he said I
not haue sinne but now haue they nothing to cloke their sinne for they haue sene and hated not onelie me but also my father No man wil be so fond as to affirme that the Iewes before Christs preaching and miracles were cleane without sinne but the coÌ„tempt of grace did so augment and increase their sinne that it became inexcusable euen so say I that Pharao did harden his owne heart frome time to time becomming more vnthankfull vnto God and more cruell to his people And y e fouÌ„teine of this induration and hardnes I confesse to haue bene borne with him and that to raige against gods people he neded no impulsion of gods parte but rather a brydle to impede his fury But yet the question is not resolued as before I haue noted for still we ask why was not that fountein shutte vp why was not the naturall venim purged and his heart mollified searche where you list ye shall fynd none other reason nor cause for the which the subsequent induration of Pharao did principallie procede but y t God in his eternall counsell for causes knowen to his wisedom alone had most iustly denyed to communicate his graces effectually with him but had raysed him vp to haue his power shewed forth in him And so God did hardeÌ„ Pharaos hearte not by permission onely but willingly withdrew his Spirit froÌ„ him as before is said Wonder it is that amongest the ancient doctors ye will seke patrocinie or defense in this mater seing it is a statute amoÌ„gest you that ye will beleue nor admit the wordes nor authoritie of no writer in any mater of con trouersie but all things you will haue decided by the plaine scripture And truly I am not contrary to your mynd in that case so that you vnderstand that ye will not admitt the authoritie of man against gods plaine trueth nether yet that you will beleue maÌ„ any furtherthen that he prouethe his sentence by gods euideÌ„t scriptures If you had produced any doctor who had confirmed his interpretation by the plaine worde of God of reason I oght to haue answered ether by the same or by some other doctor of equall authoritie orels to haue improued his interpretatioÌ„ by the plaine scriptures but seing that ye produce none ye leaue me at greater libertie and yet I will shewe you the mynd of one doctor coÌ„parable to any that euer wrote before him ether in the latin or in the greke Churche I meane of Augustine who writing against Iulian the appostate and against Manacheus who did affirme the self same thing that you do to witte that God was a passiue God that is he did suffer all euill and that against his will but he did work none Against him I say he thus writeth wilt thou say saieth Augustine to Iulian that the wicked that be giuen ouer to their owne desires are to be vnderstand onely left by gods suffering but not compelled to sinnes by power as thogh that the Apostle had not ioyned the suffering and power of God to gether where that he saieth if God willing to shewe wrath and to declare his power fuffered in great patience the vesselles of wrath prepared to destruction w t of these two saiest thou is written And also if the prophet do erre and shall speak I the lord haue deceaued him is this suffering or is it power And after adducing the same w c we before haue alledged of Achas he addeth did God these things ignorantly or doth he any thing iudgeing or doing rashly or vniustly God forbid it is not without cause that it is said Thy iudgemeÌ„tes are a great deapth it is not vaine that the Apostle crieth out Oh the hieght aâ—d depenes of gods iudgementes And after in the same place expounding these wordes lead vs not into temptation after that he hath affirmed that God giueth ouer some for iust causes to their owne lustes and blyndnes as he gaue ouer Roboam to beleue the fals and foolishe counsell of the young men he saith all these things doth God worke by wonderous and vnspeakable meanes who knoweth howe to worke his iust iudgementes not onelie in the bodies but also in the heartes of men he who maketh not the willes euill but yet he vseth them as he will seing that he can will nothing vniustly Thus far haue I alleged vnto you the mâ—nd of one doctor in this our controuersie â–ª when â—e shall bring forth the mynd of any so well grounded vpon scriptures as he dothe this his sentence â–ª I promyse to answer if I can I am not ignorant that diuers of the doctors yea and Augustine him self in some places may seme to fauor your opinion at the first sight But if their wordes in one place be compared with their plaine mynd and with the scope of their disputation in other places it shall plainely appere that none that liue this day do more plainely speak against your error then some of them haue written The places of Iob manifestly and in plaine wordes fight against you for it is said in the one place thou hast excluded their heart from wisedome and therfore this mater shall not be to their praise and in the other God hath taken wisdom from the Estrich and hath not giuen vnderstanding vnto her dare you affirme that in these wordes there is nothing but a bare permission of gods parte is there no difference betwext away taking and suffering to be taken away if any difference be betwext these two maner of speakings God giueth wisdome and God taketh away wisdome then is your interpretation foolishe and absurd nether yet is there any phrase of scripture vnderstand it as you please that can make God to call back that sentence which he hath pronounced to witt that he hath raysed vp Pharao to be an example to all generations folowing what shall be the ende of those that obstinatly resist God Who albeit he tempt no man to sinne by the power of his spirit yet as before I haue proued he iustly giueth them ouer to the inordinat lustes of their own corruption yea he giueth them ouer into the hands power of sathan to be pricked and stirred forward to all iniquitie that their damnation may be iust and also that his vengeaÌ„ce iustly deserued may the more sodenly falle vpon them The mynd of saint Iames is onely to bring men to the right examination and triall of them selues lest that by flattery they beginne to seke y e originall cause of their sinne in an other then in them selues And yet doth that nothing impede but that God in his maner which alwayes is iust doth hardeÌ„ the heartes of those whome before he had reprobated We confesse that no greater plague can chance vnto man â–ª then that he be left to his own lewde mynd â–ª for theÌ„ of him can procede no good nor permanent frute But as the earth lacking rayne dewe and moisture must nedes be barren and so
to repentance offereth light of saluatioÌ„ to all so that God refuseth none except such as vtterly refuse light or such as haue bene partakers of gods grace and do forsaik the couenant of the Lord. for besides the euident testimonies of the scriptures the common experience froÌ„ the begiÌ„ning doeth witnes that God in that maner hath not illuminated euery man for how many do perish in their mothers bellies how many sodenly die before their reason can iudge of good and euill how many are depriued of natural reason vnderstanding Yea how many remaine wylde brutishe liuiÌ„g like beastes and eating one another how many do continewe all their life without any other knowledge of God theÌ„ the visible creatures of God do teach them which I think ye will not affirme to be sufficieÌ„t illuminatioÌ„ to prouoke them to repentance or to atteine to life I pray you what light had Esau refused when God pronounced this sentence the elder shal serue the yonger vpoÌ„ the which the Apostle as before we haue declared doeth conclude that yer the children had donne either good or badde the one was loued the other was hated That God doeth nothing without a iust cause most willingly we coÌ„fesse But that there is no iustice in God to the groud whereof your blind reason doeth not pearse we constantly deny And therfor we must nedes affirme that to seke an other cause of gods workes then his holy will is more theÌ„ impietie for the causes be knowen to his wisedom alone why some he hath chosen to life euerlasting in Christe Iesus his SoÌ„ne and why that others are left in perdition the cause may be secrete as Augustine speaketh but vniust can it not be because it procedeth from gods will which is the perfecte rule of al iustice and equitie If that ye crye till that the mountaines resound againe the obstinat iniquitie of the reprobate will not be reformed and â—hat is he cause of their induration in fewe and sobre wordes we aÌ„swere That in maÌ„ there is no wickednes which God may not reforme if so be his godlie wil and good pleasure Albeit of these your wordes God may haue mercie when he will on whome he will and that besides his couenante some suspition may arise that greatly you do not esteme that inestimable benefite granted vnto vs in Christe Iesus his onely SoÌ„ne yet will I so fauorably interprete your wordes as I can If ye vnderstand that such as this day be ignorant of God ennemies to his trueth persecuters of his saintes may sodenly or after this be called to the trew knowledge of y t communioÌ„ which is betwext God and man by Christ Iesus I do fully agre with you for so was Abraham so was Paule and so were the Gentiles who long did liue without trew knowledge of God and without as touching their owne apprehension the assurance of his couenant and league But if you vnderstaÌ„d that God can or will receaue to mercie at any time such as he hath not elected to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus his Sonne before all times we vtterly abhorre that error as a pestilence most perniciouse Now to that which foloweth ADVERSARIE That place of the booke of â—he kinges The Lord commandeth Semei to curse Dauid I vnderstaÌ„d so forasmuch as God is the author of all goodnes â–ª aÌ„d of no euill he gaue not a wicked mynd to Semei But willing to exercisâ— his seruant Dauid vnder the crâ—sse and finâ—ing Semei a naughtie and euill mynded man specially towards Dauid he gaue him the bridell which being left of God he by the intisement of the deuill which was alredie in his heart did curse Dauid â–ª and Dauid being gouerned by the spirite of God did paciciently suffer the wicked to curse him hâ—ping that God wolde turne his cursing into blessing â–ª for this did Dauid knowe that without the permission and suffering of God Semei coulde no more curse him then Balaam might curse the Israelites it foloweth not therfor that God did effectually mâ—ue Semei to do the wicked dede but onely sâ—ffered 〈◊〉 yet if ye will seke to the litterall sense of this place and aâ—â—â—rm that Gâ—d did effectually command Semei to curse Dauid then I must go this way to work with you all that the Lord commandeth is iust if 〈◊〉 be iust to â—â—mmand to curse It is iust to obey to curse for the righâ—â—ousnes of the dede is knowen by the righteousnes of the commandemeÌ„t as it is uniust to obey an vniust coÌ„mandemeÌ„t so is it iust to obey a iust coÌ„mandemeÌ„t wherefor Semei obeing the coÌ„mandement of God which is iust did iustly you wil say thaâ— Semei did not obedienâ—ly thaâ— is to obey God but of an euill mynd cursed Dauid I answer you after your ownâ— saying that this was also the wâ—ll of God that Semei should haue an euill mynd and not to please God cursed Dauid â–ª for you say that God gaue him an euill mynd to curse Dauid wherfor in thaâ— he of a disobedient mynd cursed Dauid he was obedient to God and aâ— we haue said to obey God it is iust I pray you then why commandeth Dauid his sone Salomon to punishe Semei for this iust acte they which feare â—hey hore frost saieâ—h Iob the snowe shall fall vpon them likwies so long as you stick to your error when you think to auoyd one danger you shall fall into a greater ANSWER You do euer decline from the principall scope and so mak ye a fals conclusion for we do not deny but God finding in Semei at that time a wicked mynd towardes Dauid did lowse the bridle to his corrupted affections but in two things do you and we differre The first is that whether he found any wickednes in him which his godly power might not haue remoued if so he had determined to haue donne from the beginning And secondarily if so he gaue him the bridle that he might not haue impeded the sâ—me if such had bene his godly will and therefore where you affirme that God did effectually moue Semei to that wicked dede if you vnderstand that in so farre as the dede was wicked the Spirit of God I meane the holy Gost did not moue him therunto I subscribe with you for so outrageously to curse Dauid in the day of his great calamitie he was moued by that venime which loÌ„g had lurked in his breast and by the instigatioÌ„ of the deuill But if thereupon you conclude as that you seme to do by your manifest wordes that God did nothiÌ„g elles but onely suffer him Because I say that such ydle permissioÌ„ can neither agre with gods power nor with his iustice we must nedes affirme that when God giueth ouer the wicked into a lewd aÌ„d reprobate mynde that theÌ„ as iustly he punisheth sinne by sinne so doeth he more theÌ„ onely suffer There is more required that a fact be iust aÌ„d iustly and obediently
Philistians priestes and soâ—h sayers gaue glory to God iudged him to be iust in that he plagued Pharaâ— in that he hardened his heart against God desiring their ruler â–ª by the same example not to hardeÌ„ theâ—r heartes against God but to send away the Ark of the Lord lest he likwies plague them But if the Philistians soth sayers had knoweÌ„ as ye presume to do that God did harden Pharaâ—s heart what 〈◊〉 coulde they attribut to God for punishing Pharao for that thing wherâ—of he was the author him self mouing and forcing Pharao therunâ—o seing as you haue said no man is able to resist his secrete will what iustice had it bene to punishe Semei for that oâ—fence where of God was the author commanding him to do it Dauid Saieth thus the Lord is knowen to execute true iudgement when the vngodlie is trapped in the workes of his â—wne handes not when he punished for the offence wherunto he moued men him self If God should punish a man because he hath a beard should any glory redound to God thereof seing he hath giuen vs beards him self â–ª But here you be very religious and say we oght not to speake so vnreuerently of the woâ—kâ— of God for this is the secret iudgement of God vnknowen to vs I answere there be some secretes of God vnknowen to vs. But the iudgement of God is knowen made manifest to vs in the word and after this word as saint Paul teacheth not after your secret iudgement shall God iudge the world so shal God be glorified of all godlie vngodlie forasmuch as all shall iudge is to be iust they which haue not obeyed the trueth not your vnknowene trueth but that which is knowen that is â—he word shal be punished aÌ„d they which haue obeyed to the â—rueâ—h not secrâ—t as yours but reueled in gods word shall receaue their rewarde Moreouer if this be the secret iudgemeÌ„t of God who reuâ—led it â—heÌ„ to you Hâ—we do you knowe it to be secret is it secreâ—e which you knowe and teachâ—n dede I thiÌ„k it to heso for it is so secret that I caÌ„ not cache no holde of it But herin I de perceaue not the secret but â—he manifest iudgemeÌ„t of God which suffereth you to erre thus because you with holde the trueth is vnrighteousnes aÌ„d according to your knowledge you haue not glorified God neither haue you bene thankfull but waxâ—d full of vanities in your owned imaginations wherfore my counsell is that you â—urnâ— againâ— from â—hat infiâ—â—â—â—tie wherin you haue drowned your selues beleue â—he worde sâ—kâ— no forther for it is the power of God to salutation to euery one that beleuâ—â—h ANSWERER As your most pestilent sect euen from the first originall of it hath with all malicious craft labored to subuert and confound gods most perfect ordinance so do you in this mater confound those things which we most plainely aÌ„d most destinctly set a parte and deuide them the one from the other for first you are neuer able to proue that any of vs hath alledged or yet doeth alledge the word or fact of Ioseph and his brethren for any proof of gods eternall election or most iust reprobation but to declare that such is gods prouideÌ„ce towardes his chosen childreÌ„ and towardes their saluation preseruation of his church that what so euer sathan and wicked men imagine to the destruction of gods elect that same doeth his infinit goodnes conuert to their profit comfort and ioye And so this is the first that impudeÌ„tly ye confounde to witt his prouidence which exteÌ„deth to all his creatures with his election which perteineth onely to his children The second is no man hath euer put more plaine difference betwext the wicked will of Sathan the corrupt and malicious will of man and the holie aÌ„d most iust will of God theÌ„ we do in all o r doctrine aÌ„d writings And yet ye accuse vs that we attribut to God that which is propre to the deuill that is to moue the thoght of men to do euill Howe far that impietie is from all our cogitations as God one day shall manifestly reuele to your eternall confusion except that spedely you repent so may all godlie men who either haue heard our voices or redde our writings beare record how iustly you accuse vs. we constantly affirme that God neither moued by his holie spirit the heartes of the patriarkes to enuie aÌ„d hatred neither vet of Pharao to crueltie neither yet to iniquitie for that is naturally borne with all men and nedeth the power of the potent Spirit of God to extinguish and queÌ„ch it but not to inflaÌ„be and kindle it But yet we say that God who out of darknes produced or broght forth light had in y t most detestable facte of the patriarckes both his will and his counsell farre coÌ„trarie to their myndes and purpose euen as hâ— had in the cruell and most vniust death as coÌ„cerning the instrumeÌ„tes that were the executers of his deare sonne Christ Iesus nether yet doth it ther of folowe y t euill thoghtes whereunto we are comanded to resist are moued by him or yet come from him for the fountaine thereof doth euerie wicked man so fynd within him self that his owne conscience shall conuict him that no where elles is the cause of his iniquitie of the seuere punishment which for the same he shall susteine to be soght but onely within him self and as proceding of him self by instigation of the deuill into whose power he is deliuered as was Saul and others by the inscrutable and incompreheÌ„sible but yet most iust iudgemeÌ„tes of God If in you were ether modestie or discretioÌ„ to iudge of those thinges y t be well godly spoken or yet docilitie to be taught in those thinges wher of vterly ye declare your selues ignorant ye coulde not thus as in a furious rage spewe forth your venim against gods supreme Maiestie for your horrible blasphemies are not so much spoken against vs as against God As for vs they do no more obscure the manifest light of our doctrine then if in your despyte ye should spitt against the bright sunne to impede the brightnes therof for in none of our writinges be you able to shewe any of these sentences which maliciously without shame you laye to our charge Euill thoghtes come â–ª from God God punisheth maÌ„ for the offences wherof he is author and wher vnto he prouoketh him God moued and forced Pharaâ— to pnuishe the people These I say and others your horrible blasphemies which we so detest that we affirme the first authors of them to be worthie of most sharp punishment you be neuer albe to shewe in any of our writinges And this might serue for a sufficient answered to all your dispitefull raling But lest you should still glory in your iniquite and grosse ignorance I will discouer the same folowing your answer in the wordes of S. Iames saying God teÌ„pteth no man
any of you think that these thiâ—gs are but imagined by me let him vnder his oâ—ne name impugne them and I shall shewe witnesses which at this time for diuers causes I omitte Your iesting at vs your bold iudgement and condemnation by you pronounced against vs we remitt to him who shortly shall declare which of the two sortes be drowned in infidelitie and leauing gods plaine scriptures haue folowed the vanities of their owne imaginations Now shortlie to that w c foloweth in these wordes THE ADVERSARIES An other proofbring you of that which is written 2. Reg. 24. God moued Dauid to nombre Israell Iuda To which I answer that which is write 1. Parali xi Sathan stood vp against Israel prouoked Dauid to nombre the people I am certen that if it were not for this manifest scripture you wold attribute the wicked prouocatioÌ„ of the deuil to God but here we may see agreat light to vnderstaÌ„d many other places of the scriptures which semeâ—h to affirm God to be the author of any euill for by these two places we may see that God is called to be the author of the thing which he suffered as because he suffered the obstinat resisting of Pharao he is called the author thereof So because he left Semei to the lewdnes of his owne mynd suffered him to curse Dauid God is called the author of his cursing so the partriarkes being left of God did sell their brother aÌ„d here now Dauid being left of God to noÌ„bre the people by the prouocation of the deuil whereuÌ„to he was no more moued by God theÌ„ wheÌ„ he killed Vrias to this you say that we do but flatter God wheÌ„ we do assigne any difference betwene his wâ—l his permissioÌ„ or his sufferaÌ„ce for God permitteth nothing say you but that which he will if ye meÌ„t so that God permitteth nothing but that which he will permits I would them holde your saying true But for as much as you declare you meaning to be this that what so euer God permitteth he willethe it absoutly this is an erronâ—ouse saying â–ª for God permitteth suffereth all the wickednes which is donne vpon the earths and will you say that God willeth absolutly all such wickednes God for bid the people of God should be so persuaded to beleue such abomination I say you are the Propâ—etes of the deuill which teache such filthie doctrine and ye say ye be the prophetes of God nowe of necesitie one of vs lieth for if you be the Prâ—phets of God then I lie and if you be the Prophetes of the deuill they do ye lie and if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs doeth lie which must be by the permissioÌ„ and suffring of God not by his will wherof it foloweth that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God The Lord was angry with the careles heathen because when God was a little angry with the Israelites they did their best to destroye them Then suffered God the heathan thus to punish his people more greuously theÌ„ he willed them to do wherfor there must be difference betwene the will of God and his suffering Obed the Prophetâ—reproued the Israelites because 〈◊〉 afflicted Iuda more greuously then God wold they should haue donne â–ª 〈◊〉 must the Israeliâ—es haue donne this by the permission of God nâ— â—his will The prodigall sonne wasted all his goods riatously if you say that so was his fathers will iâ— should be a great absurditie wherfor it must nedes folowe that the father suffered that which he willed not The faâ—her willed both his soÌ„nes to go aÌ„d labor in his vineyarde yeâ— not boâ—h but one of them did his fathers will so the father sufferred the other which weÌ„t not against his will Thus we may see a great difference betwene the will and the permission of God a notable saying we haue in the prophecie of Ieremiâ— against this error which teacheâ—h â—haâ— sinne is coÌ„mitted not onely by the permission of God but also against his will they haue saieth he builded â–ª high places for Baal to vowe their sonnes daughters vnto Moloâ—h which I neuer commaÌ„ded â—hem neither came it euer in my â—hoght to make Iuda sinne with such abomination Here we se that Iuda committed that which was contrarie to gods reueled will for I neuer commanded theÌ„ saieth he and against his secrete wâ—ll for iâ— came neuer in my thoght saiteh hâ— TheÌ„ did they sinne by the permissioÌ„ of God against his wil. Thy wayes thy thoghtes broght the to â—his saieth the Lord. If it was the lordâ—s secrete wil that the Israelites should sinne and it was also the Israelites thoghtes will to sinne theÌ„ were they bothe of one mynd And as he 〈◊〉 out wardly by the word willeth theÌ„ not to do euil so they out wardlâ—e did promise to kepe gods law wourshipped him with their lippes By 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semed that both in wardlie aÌ„d out wardly they were coÌ„forme to God afâ—er your opinoÌ„ wherfor he oght not to hauâ— bene offeÌ„ded with theÌ„ I am ashamed to write the abominable absurditeis which may be gathered of your poisoned doctrâ—ne The lord shall raise vp the spirit of the king of the Medes which hath alredie a desire to destroy BabiloÌ„ by what meanes 〈◊〉 the lord stirre him vp to do any thing which alredie is bent to do it â–ª but by suâ—fering him And yet is the Lord called the doer therof And â—here for it is written Let one deceaâ—full offender com against anoâ—her and one destrâ—yer 〈◊〉 me against an other â–ª for what neded God to moue the wickd â—o do 〈◊〉 kindly which being giuen ouer of God do imagine nothing buâ— wâ—ckâ—dnesand his master the deuill stepeth neuer but is alwayes with him teâ—pting him with euill thoghtes and promoking him to perfourm his wâ—ckâ—d imaginations ANSWER The more nie ye draw to the end the lesse ye proue your purpose but the more ye vtter your malice aÌ„d venim No iust caus se we why that y e place of the bookes of the kings shall be explained by that which is written in the chronicles in such sorte as you require to wit that nothing be left to God in that greuous offence of Dauid except an ydle and onely permission for the holie Gost feareth not to say The wrath of the Lord God was yet moued against Israell and stirred vp Dauid against them that he said go and nombre Israell and Iuda Here plain it is that the eternall God who was angrie against Israell dad stirre or moue Dauid to nombre them not by an ydle permission as you alledge but by such motioÌ„ as nothing repugneth to his iustice Where ye say the other place explaineth this for it affirmeth that the deuil stood vp against Israel and prouoked Dauid to