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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03398	A suruay of the pretended holy discipline. Contayning the beginninges, successe, parts, proceedings, authority, and doctrine of it: with some of the manifold, and materiall repugnances, varieties and vncertaineties, in that behalfe	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1593 (1593)	STC 1352; ESTC S100667	297,820	466

not to expecte for the vnderstanding of those things which are spoken in the Scriptures out of the words themselues sed imponere but to impose a meaning vppon them non referre sed adferre not to deliuer the true sense of them but to bring a sense of their owne not a yeelding to the wordes but a kind of compulsion inforcement or violence offered to make that to seeme to be contained in thē quod ante lectionem praesumpserit intelligendum which they presumed should be vnderstood by them before they read them Whosoeuer doe deale with the Scriptures in this sort well they may speak proud things exalt themselues promise mountaines bragge of the Prophets of Christ of his Apostles and verisimilia mentiri as many such men in former times haue done whereby for a season some may be deceaued but yet as Sainct Cyprian saith mendacia non diu fallunt It will come to passe as alwaies it hath done hitherto that after a short time the couering of their deuises with so many sleights and falshoodes groweth to be detected and then they are paid to their vtter discredite the wages and full hire of such vnrighteous dealing CHAP. XXXII What account the sollicitors for this pretended gouernment doe make each of other WE haue Christ and his Apostles and all the Prophets on our sides we are assured wee see Gods glorie The order that we contend for is that which God hath left the euerlasting truth of God The matters that wee deale in are Gods and we may not for our parts leaue them The matters we deale in are according to the very will of God There is nothing in our bookes that should offend any that either bee or would seeme to be godly Gods cause by vs is truely and faithfully propounded No no Gods cause is the matter why wee are troubled well may they confer and yeelde for neuer shall they ouerthrow the trueth which we vtter It is not possible for vs to conceale the trueth wee can doe nothing against it but for it Wee are the poore seruaunts of God and professors of the Gospell we are the poore little ones of Christ we are the foolish things of the world chosen to confound the wise wee propound nothing that the Scriptures doe not teach the writers both olde and new for the most part affirme the examples of the Primitiue Church and of those which are at these daies confirme We stay our selues within the bounds of Gods word wee seeke not to pleasure our selues but the Lord and our bretheren we seeke not the admiration of men we will patiently abide vntill the Lord bring our righteousnes in this behalfe vnto light and our iust dealing as the noone day We are of immortall seede we are the lawfull successors of those men who through faith quenched the violence of fire we are those vnto whom the Lorde made this promise I will not faile thee we may boldly say the Lorde is my helper I will not feare what man can doe vnto me we are the chiefe seruaunts of God most worthy faithfull and painefull Ministers feeders of Christs flocke vnreprooueable modest and watchfull Nowe we the seruauntes of God must reason with you the Proctors of Antichrist Paul spake frankely against superstition so doe these Paul was accounted a foole in the world so are these Paul counted mens traditions dong and drosse so doe these They haue one common cause Paul was persecuted and so are these Our side detesteth sinne and wickednes preaching the gospell with all faithfull diligence Our Ministers quietly suffer all euill at the handes of the Magistrates onely refusing to doe euill at their commaundement as did Iohn Baptist Peter and Iohn the Euangelist professing they must rather obey God then men God knoweth we altogether seeke to doe good There is none of our side God be praised but that he hath some competent knowledge of the Scriptures and in life very honest Ours doe follow Christ and labour so to doe more and more They of the wicked sort take part with their aduersaries but the godly doe ioine with vs. We deserue praise of the law and of the Church of God Our zeal when they raile vnmeasurably is to be measured with the zeale of Moises Elias of the Prophets of Iohn Baptist of Paul of the Apostles of Iohn the elder and of Christ. Indeede there is almost nothing spoken in the Scriptures to the commendation of the true Prophets and Ministers of God or which may well be applied to such as truelie feare the Lord and walke in his waies but they seeme to appropriat the same vnto themselues and their followers with the same faith and sinceritie I feare that one in the Gospell sustaining the person of those which trusted in themselues that they were iust and despised others saide vz. O God I thanke thee that I am not as other men extorcioners vniust adulterers I fast twise in the weeke I giue Tithe of all that euer I possesse There is also another reproofe sette downe by the same Euangelist of such kinde of men which I wish they maie look in time to escape Yee are they which iustifie your selues before men but God knoweth your hearts To whome though for mine owne part I leaue them to be iudged yet I haue thought it meete to let you vnderstand what Barrow and Greenewood not priuately but in Printe haue published of them Two men who peraduenture haue beene themselues of the same minde and integritie that these presentlie are of and by their owne harts they doe take vppon them to iudge of these mens hartes nowe They meaning our English Consistorians are most pernicious deceauers presumptuous shepeheardes chiefe Rabbines Baalmites wretched disciples of Caluin blasing starres and paragons of the Countrye new founde Martins saincts glosing hypocrits with God fasting pharisaicall preachers miserable guides counterfeyt false prophets Sycophants trencher-priests that will cunningly insinuate into some great noble mans house Pharisies in precisenes outward shewes of holynes hypocrisie vaine-glory couetousnes resembling or rather exceeding them Conscience brokers most daungerous and pestilent seducers Sectary precise preachers abalienaters of the harts minds of the people from theyr pastors to draw them to themselues The perfidy and apostacy of these reformists is great The perfidye and treacherye of these miserable guides treacherous watchmen sworne waged marked souldiers of Antichrist garding his verye throne and person building the harlotte a false Church Theyr dealing is counterfeyt and corrupt They intangle poore soules by theyr counterfeyt shewes of holynes grauitie austerenes of manners c. These Scorpions so poyson and sting euerye good Conscience so leauen them with hypocrisie c. that such proselytes as are wonne vnto them become twofolde more the children of hell then they

will improoue the vse of it where it is He also goeth further and protesteth that whilest he sustaineth the person that then he did meaning belike whilest he should be the chiefe pastor at Geneua hee would striue to the death for that forme of Discipline But yet toward the end he tempereth all againe in some sorte For else it had been a ridiculous matter to haue referred their doubtes to those Cities and withall to haue signified vnto them that thus and thus we are resolued and if you shall iudge otherwise we care not for your iudgements for we will surely sticke to our owne He therefore thus qualifieth this point saying nec morositate nostra fiet vt loco potius cedamus quam sententia we will not bee so wilfull as that wee minde rather to leaue our places then our opinions Meaning as I take it that seeing they had put their cause into their hands they would be content to stand to their directions You do looke I am sure to know to what purpose maister Caluin vsed all this Rhetoricke and what the matter was which hee desired at their handes He himselfe shall tell you as he told maister Bullinger Breuis summa est c. The summe thereof briefly is this that your honourable Senate may giue this aunswere vz that the forme of our Discipline which heretofore we haue followed is consentanea verbo dei agreeable to the word of God deinde nouitatem improbet and then let them reproue the newsanglenesse of our Citizens Indeed if he can get that aunswere it is to the matter and of likelyhood will serue his turne But what do the magistrates of Geneua all this while you will say Surely I tolde you before As soone as they could they writ and sent their letters to the said foure Cities Of those that came to Zuricke maister Bullinger writeth that they were but short and so I thinke we may iudge of the rest The effect of which letters was vz that they of those Cities would resolue them 1. How excommunication was to be vsed by the worde of God 2. Whether it might not be vsed by some other meanes then by a consistorie 3. What the practise of their Churches was in that point Vppon the receite of these letters euen as maister Caluin foresaw it would come to passe there were appointed in Zuricke foure the Consull and three Senators to consult with three of their learned Ministers what aunswere was meet to be giuen to the said three questions If the magistrates of Geneua had met with as good an orator as M. Caluin was that would haue layd open the qualities and proceedings of the Consistorian faction how they intermedled in all the common affayres of the citty how they vsed to keepe men from the Communion without yeelding any other reason why they do so but because soome of the godly bretheren forsooth were offended with them how if a man haue committed any offence for the which hee is punished and professeth his harty repentance for the same yet they will keepe him from the Communion vntill it please them to say that he is penitent inough which they doe as they affect the party If in their letters they had infourmed how vpon any light displeasure or rash information their wiues their children and seruauntes were called into the Disciplinarian Consistory a place for criminall persons so as thereby they were infamed how they affected popularity wholy which might endaunger the Magistrates of the Citty vppon any displeasure conceiued against them how they of the citty had beene compassed in the framinge of the platforme of the Consistory how although there was a pretence of a Senate yet one man did all and the rest were but attendants of his pleasure how by experience they found that theyr Bishop did neuer tyrannise more ouer them by his spiritual iurisdiction then now some one man did how the autority which had bene taught to belonge vnto them beeing ciuile Magistrates was wholy taken from them againe nothinge lefte vnto them but to bee the executioners of their Consistoriall mens pleasures If they had foresene how likely it was that M. Caluin would seeke to discredite them all to his vttermost had therfore signifyed vnto the Magistrates of these foure citties that there were as honest religious men in the Cittie of Geneua that misliked that forme of Church-gouernment as there were that spake for it that if in their letters they depraued any their euill wordes ought not to preiudice the cause committed vnto them for that it is their custome to slaunder all those that do impugne them that they for their partes the magistrates of that Cittie rested all of them as fully resolued to continue the preaching of the Gospel amongst thē as euer they were glad at the first to procure admit it If they had giuen some round intimation that they the cittizens were resolued to haue their Church reformed according to some of the platformes of the Heluetian Churches and that they would no longer endure to be so ouer-looked and hampered in their owne free Cittie by such a pragmaticall and intermedlinge Discipline If I say their letters had beene penned after this or some such like sort as I suppose there was good cause the proceedings of that Consistory being such at that time as since they haue beene in other places I doubt not but that the ministers of those citties would haue aduised their magistrates to haue giuen an other kinde of aunswere then they did For they the saide ministers belieuing Maister Caluins information that all was true which he had reported vnto them and considering what a small matter it was which hee and the rest of his associates required at their handes that the satisfying of them therein might breake the backs of such a wicked conspiracy as was pretended to haue beene made euen against Christ himselfe and his Church and not onely preuente that mischiefe for that time but procure the establishinge of the Gospell there for time to come hereafter they dealt no otherwise for the sayde aunswere then I am perswaded all the Bishops that now are in England if then they had liued woulde haue done in the like case And that was in effect as Maister Caluin wished sauing that whereas he woulde haue had them to haue sayde that the forme of the Geneua discipline was consentanea verbo dei agreable to the worde of God they refused to write in that sorte but were content to say that it did accedere ad verbi dei praescriptum that is that it drewe towardes the prescript of gods worde or looked that way But you shall heare Maister Bullinger himselfe report the aunswere of their Senate which was that they were grieued theyr Church was so troubled as that one quarrell and contention did begette another that they had lately heard of the consistoriall lawes of that Church for Caluin had sent such of them as he thought good

vnto the sayde ministers by Budaeus his messenger and did acknowledge them to be godly and to drae towardes the prescript of gods worde and therefore that the chaunging of them by any innouation was not to be admitted in their opinions that it was better they should be wholy kept especially in this age when men waxe worse and worse that although say they our discipline doth not agree with that of Geneua in all points yet the same being framed according to the circumstaunces of times places and persons doth not import any ouerthrowe of yours and that according to their desire of Geneua they had sent vnto them the forme of their discipline not minding as they said to prescribe any iote of it to them for that they deemed their owne at Geneua to be more meete for them there This being the summe of the aunswere agreed vppon by the sayde Senate at Zuricke Maister Bullinger presently dispatcheth the same in a priuate letter to Caluin and not that onely but he also writ his letters at the same time to the ministers of Schafhusen and Basill two of those citties belike to the which the deciding of the saide questions was also referred signifying what aunswere the magistrates of Zuricke had made that they likewise there might concurre with them in their aunsweres for the peace and edification of the Church of Geneua although sayth he you haue not the like forme of discipline in your Churches After that M. Bullinger had thus dispatched his priuate letters the Senate then soone after sent their saide aunswere to Geneua Which being receiued perused and considered of there was great muttering in the cittie The magistrates thereby did finde themselues as it were in a laberinth The strength of their state did depend especially as I iudge vpon the league and frendship which they had with the sayde fower citties So as they might not doe any thinge that shoulde dislike them And on the other side remēbring the great abuses of their Consistorialls how they had formerly dealt with them and tyrannized ouer them as they supposed it greatly troubled them to confirme vnto them any such authoritie It seemeth therefore that they endeuoured to protract the time as much as they could And yet because they thought it meet that some thing should be done vpon the receipt of the sayde aunswere they caused a kinde of generall reconciliation by giuing theyr right handes and an oathe was taken that none of them for the time to come would support any euill causes Maister Caluin being discontent with this plausible colour of peace as perceiuing that thereby the restoring of the Discipline vnicus pacis custos the onely preseruer of peace as he tearmeth it was neglected and that their Church was still like Noahs Arke in the floud he grewe after a short time to be resolute and prouoked the magistrates to giue their answere whether they would followe the aduise of the sayd former Cities or they would not Whereupon as it seemeth the matter was put to voyces And now see the vpshoote In illa promiscua collunie suffragijs fuimus superiores in that confused ofscouring of the whole multitude saith maister Caluin we had the most voyces It is very worthy the obseruation and to bee kept likewise in perpetuall memory in what honourable presence according to maister Caluins own estimation by how reuerend a companie of learned fathers and famous persons and with what singular grauitie great wisedome and mature deliberation this solemne and glorious forme of the pretended holy Discipline was reuiued againe and intertained at Geneua In illa promiscua colluuie suffragijs fuimus superiores In that disordered dunghill of riffraffe tagge and ragge our presbyteriall platforme hauing moste of their voyces carried away the bucklers No doubt a worthie victorie For if an assembly be called colluuies as I take it is a maiori parte of the greater part what godly man liuing would not then haue flung vp his cappe and reioyced to haue seene the noble Consistorye triumphing that day with the applause and approbation of so honourable a company Men may talke hereafter of the councell of Nice with shame inough if they shall compare it with this royal assembly In good earnest seeing the multitude of all the Citizens of Geneua was content to gratifie maister Caluin so much it might haue become him well inough to haue recompensed their friendships with some better tearmes But let that go if the Citizens themselues do take it well at his hands to be so vsed by him it shall not any way trouble me any further When maister Caluin had well considered how hardly he had obtained his conquest and how it was not very vnlike but that some of those who had before opposed them selues would still be practising to ouerthrowe his worke againe if possibly they coulde hee aduised as it should seeme with his best and surest friendes what course was meetest to be thought of and taken for the preuenting of so notable a mischiefe And their plot was howe they might strengthen their saide Colluuies or greater part for the better continuance of it The present oportunitie serued their purpose Whereupon like wise men they so hammered their matters whilest the Iron was hot that they procured fiftie of maister Caluins owne nation all of them meere Frenchmen to be admitted Cittizens at one time in Geneua Which was a point of very great importance For as I take it the people hauing reserued to them selues as Bodiue saith ius i●be●●dae legis authoritie to make lawes the Eldership being set vp by them could not be ouerthrowne afterwardes without them And then to haue such an increase of assured friends that would sticke as fast to maister Caluin as the skinne did to his forehead was surely a great matter in so little a towne And as this pollicie was put in practise for the Citizens so I coniecture it was also from time to time as touching the ministers None but Frenchmen might rule there in that Consistorie if maister Caluin could helpe it When the Magistrates vpon a time would needes haue one Trollietus a Geneuian borne to bee one of their ministers heare I pray you how maister Caluin writeth thereof to his friend Viretus Trollietus quidam quod natione sit Geneuensis c. One Trollietus because he is a Geneuian borne is obtruded vnto vs in whome there do appeare many signes which none of vs like of Aud I see not any thing in him worthy a Minister nisi quod Simiae amant suos catulos but that apes loue their whelpes So as I gesse that for maister Caluins time no Apes were fit for his turne but his owne Though maister Caluin writ in this sort merrily peraduenture to his familiar friend yet maister Beza was not bound to haue published such a disgrace in print against those that haue deserued better of him But this partialitie in the choyse of their ministers was not a

of which their allobrogicall food so much as concerneth this poynt of the disciplinarian reformation that I may omitt their desperate poyntes of deposinge of Princes and of putting them to death in diuerse cases of resistance against reformation was this that if the soueraine magistrates refused to admitt it the ministers the inferior magistrates the people c. might set it on foote themselues Of these and such like arguments diuerse bookes were allowed of by the ministers of Geneua to bee then printed there in English and to be published for Englande and Scotland as conteyning such doctrine in them wherof the worlde might take notice that as they had practised some parte of it themselues so they would be ready vpon all occasions to iustifie it I haue heard many greately commende the intertainement that was giuen in Queene Maries time to Englishmen at Geneua And surely the citizens there are in mine opinion to be greatly commended and assisted for it as occasions shall require But yet to speake what I thinke it had beene better for this Iland that neither Englishman nor Scottishman had euer beene harbored or acquainted there in respect of such disciplinarian new lessons consistoriall practises as they haue brought with them from thence If euer you meete with the historie of the Church of Scotland penned by maister Knox printed by Vautrouillier reade the pages quoted here in the margent likewise peruse the English Chronicles of Scotland as they stand corrected by some men of good experience and credite appointed for that purpose in the places also noted but especially procure for your perfect instruction the Acts of the Parliament helde in Scotland 1584. as they are printed and are abroad in many mens hands and then tell me whether you be not of my minde for the fruict of maister Knox his being at Geneua I could referre you to some other Bookes but those shall suffice For there you shall finde that the whole course which hath been held in that country concerning the points I speake of was complotted at Geneua amongst the ministers there and Caluin is named There you shall finde the forme of the Consistoriall pretended Discipline being sette vp without publicke consent ouerthrowen by Act of Parliament and afterward restored againe you may see how As soone as this saide pretended discipline began to get a head in that Countrey then againe as amongest certaine of the Frenche Ministers no forme of Seruice or of the administration of the Sacramentes no orders nor any thing else but all must be done as it was at Geneua As any doubts did arise amongest them concerning any Church-causes though they were but very simple such as a student of meane capacity and iudgement might very easely haue satisfied yet no man but maister Caluin for his time and afterwards maister Beza as though they had beene such Peters for the Protestants as the Bishop of Rome pretendeth himselfe to be for all Papists was accounted of sufficiency or able to dissolue them when they had ouerthrowen the auncient state of theyr Bishops and set vp the Geneua minion by such means as you haue heard and had so farre preuailed therein as that now they began to please themselues exceedingly See how Beza being informed thereof doth allow of their dealings incourageth them to goe forewarde in such their obedient right Consistorian courses He tearmeth their reformation after the Geneua mould if I vnderstand him Caelum in terris situm a Heauen placed in the earth or at the least he compareth the force which had beene vsed about that matter to the power of God He saith that no nation in so few yeares had abidden more assaultes of Sathan to haue hindered the saide pretended Discipline and thanketh God that Knox is theyr Pilotte to guide that ship He exhorteth the said Pilot and his fellow marriners that seeing they had both pure Religion and pure Discipline now amongest them they should keepe them both together and neuer suffer as though they had beene all of them Princes the authority of Bishops in any wise to be restored againe Afterwarde there being some new attempt made as it seemeth in the behalfe of the Bishops and as I perceiue defeated by the pretended reformers vppon information thereof giuen by one Lawson a minister to Beza he returneth him an aunswere beginning in this sorte though he were then sicke Beastime you haue made me an happy man The same yeare also he writte the discourse of his three kinde of Bishops vz. of God of men and of the Diuell and sent it vnto a man of great state in that countrey It hath since beene translated into English by Field as I take it for our instruction in England Wherein Beza dealeth I wil not say like what kinde of Bishop but rather like some new start-vp Oracle and dissolueth questions Pellmell vz. that all Bishops other then such as haue an equality amōgst them and such as he alloweth and requireth that euery minister should be must of necessity be packing that the chiefe Elders should be admitted to be present in their Parliaments as the Bishops were to deale in church-Church-causes and to aunswere in place of God if any other matters fell out wherein the Lordes would be resolued that Papistes may not to be excommunicated what sinne soeuer they committe and that it is Sacriledge for any lay person and such a sinne as God will reuenge to staine his handes with the goodes of the Church He further prescribeth the whole course of the church gouernment for that kingdome to be fashioned after the platforme of Geneua taking much more vppon him therein then Eleutherius the Bishop of Rome would doe hauing a farre better occasion offered him by the king of Britaine Lucius Who after hee had newly receaued the Gospell mouing the saide Bishop in respect of his great fame by his Embassadors to prescribe vnto him some orders for the Churches within his Realme he returned vnto him this aunswere in effect that the King being Christes Vicar and hauing the Scriptures he the saide Bishop would not presume to prescribe any thing vnto him but leaue him to be directed by them Such an answer as this had beene more fitte for a man of Bezaes place then in such a pope-like manner to forbid and prescribe lawes to such a kingdome But I will leaue these and such like Geneuian dealinges in that part of this Iland because peraduenture they are desired to be continued there still and come vnto the Geneuating for the selfe same platforme of discipline here at home amongest our selues As soone as her maiesty whom Almighty God longe preserue to raigne ouer vs was come to the Crown word was sent into this Realme from Geneua in a Booke printed there 1559. that those Princes that would liue without the yoke of Discipline meaning that Geneuian forme were to be reputed for Gods ennemies and therefore vnworthy to