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A08891 The fal of Babel By the confusion of tongues directly proving against the Papists of this, and former ages; that a view of their writings, and bookes being taken; cannot be discerned by any man living, what they would say, or how be vnderstoode, in the question of the sacrifice of the masse, the reall presence or transubstantiation, but in explaning their mindes they fall vpon such termes, as the Protestants vse and allow. Further in the question of the Popes supremacy is shevved, how they abuse an authority of the auncient father St. Cyprian, a canon of the I Niceene counsell, and the ecclesiastical historie of Socrates, and Sozomen. And lastly is set downe a briefe of the sucession of Popes in the sea of Rome for these 1600 yeeres togither; ... By Iohn Panke. Panke, John. 1608 (1608) STC 19171; ESTC S102341 167,339 204

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matter of faith as other men do if in examination it happen to be an error yet shal it be none in the Pope but must be one in al men else For trial of this let any man read the 1. 2. chapt de sanct beat where he proueth it an error vpon whom soeuer shall thinke that the soules of the blessed doe not see God vntill the last day Bellar. de Sanctor beatit l. 1 c. 1. 2 This error is put vpon Iohn 22. Bellarmine confesseth as much Ioannem hunc reverâ sensisse animas non visuras Deum nisi post resurrectionem That Iohn 22. did verily beleeue Bell. de Rom. pont l. 4. c. 14. fol 549. c. 12. fol. 531. he saueth Pope Nicholas by the like that the soules see not God vntil the last day But this he thought saith he when he might so thinke without danger of heresie nulla enim adhuc praecesserat Ecclesiae definitio for there had no determinatiō of the church gone before Why The determinatiō of himselfe is the determination of the church aswel as you said before his telling of a thing to himselfe was the telling of it to the church And why excuseth he the Pope by the not determination of the Church When hee telleth vs himselfe De conc auth l. 2. c. 2 5. That neither generall counsels nor particular which otherwise are subiect to erre can erre if the Pope confirme them And yet see the man be telleth vs De Rom. pont l. 4. c. 14 f. 551 that Iohn need not to reuoke the error cum in errorem nullum incidisset for he fel into no error If hee fel into no error neither did they fal into any error on whō Bellarmine laieth the same error nor must he cal it an error to say The soules of the righteous see not God vntil the last day seeing he himselfe saith that Iohn so held and yet held no error Frō absurd and grosse cōclusions they fal to flat blasphemies Rom. 6.23 Rhem annot on that Text. Blasphemies Contradictiōs The reward of sin is death but everlasting life is the gift of God saith S. Paul the Rhemists say in their annotations that The sequele of the speech required that as he said deathor damnation is the stipend of sin so life everlasting is the stipend of iustice so it is What indignity is this to the holy Ghost to crosse him so manifestly S. Paule maketh opposition betweene eternal life eternal death touching the cause of either The proper working cause of death is sin so saith the Apostie The reward wages or stipend of sin is death but everlasting life is what the stipende of good workes as the Rhemists say no but the free gift of God The Apostle might as easilie haue said so as they if it had bin so Annot 2. Cor. 5. vers 10. Wil Reinolds cont Whi●…k fol. 105● Why did S. Paule invert and turne the sentence if as the one had deserued hel so the other had deserued heaven but only to exclude what the Rhemists bring in They iterate this in an other place where they say Heaven is as well the reward of good works as hell is the stipend of ill workes This is also seconded by one from Rhemes who saith that the Apostle Saint Paule laieth in indifferent ballance good works and euil maketh the one the cause of heauen as the other is the cause of hel But if it be so that good works be the cause purchase merit of eternall life as these men tell vs as trulie as euill works are the purchase and merit of hel what saie they to their owne note Rhem. Annot. Rom c 9. v. 11. 16. vpon another text where they tel vs that by the example of the two two twinns Iacoh Esaw it is euident that nether nations nor particular persons bee elected eternallie or called temporallie or preferred to Gods fauour before other by their owne merits but of thē two vvhere iustlie hee might haue reprobated both hee saued of mercie one What is this as S Paul said before eternal life is the gift of God excluding merits Yet they stand not alwaie to this last For they saie againe Man hath free will to make himselfe a vessell of saluation or damnation Rhem. Annot 2. Tim. 2. v. 21. though saluation be attributed to gods mercy principally the other to his iust iudgment H●w hath man free wil to make himselfe a vessel of saluation or damnation whē saluation is principallie of Gods mercie and the other of his iudgment Whie explaine they not that darke speech that wee maie vnderstand it Interpres eget interprete They neede more Interpreters then the text They told vs before that Gods meere mercie is seene in the elect and iustice in the reprobat And that they that are saued Annot. Rhem. Rom 9. v. 6.11 14. 16. must hold of gods eternal purpose mercy and election And this election and mercy dependeth on his owne purpose will determination that all are worthie of damnation before they bee first called to mercie Make good this doctrine which they haue last set downe and agreed vpon the former will proue blasphemous and deregatorie to the m●iestie of God That good workes are the cause of beauen as evill are the cause of hell Or that man hath free will to make himself a vessell of saluation or damnation I doubt not if the Rhemists be followed but that a man might take vp moe contradictions then those before which they haue heaped amongst their notes in that testament 2. Tim 2.25 God giueth repentance Where S. Paul writing to Tymothy willeth him to instruct with meeknesse those that resist or vvithstand the truth prouing if at anie time God will giue them repentance that they maie acknowledge the truth they note That conversion from sin and heresie is the gift of god and of his special grace Annot. vppon that place in the margent pag. 589. I might aske them first how this agreeth with their owne note one the other side of their owne leafe so oft mentioned before Man hath free wil to make him selfe a vessel of saluation or damnation But I wil leaue that now and demand of them howe it agreeth with this The grace of god woorketh not in man against his will nor forceth anie thing without his acceptation and consent Annot. 2. cor 6. v. 1. Annot. Ioh. 6. v. 44. Annot Luc. 14. v. 23. Conuersion from sin heresie is the gift of God For whosoeuer are lead by the spirit of God Rhem. Rom. 8. v 14. in marg Hee meaneth not that the children of god be violently compelled against their wills but that they bee sweetly d●awn moued or induced to doe good ex Aug. Ench c. 64. de verbis domin Serm. 43. c 7 deverb Apost ser 13. c. 11 1● Acts ● and therfore it lieth in a mans will to
the manner of doing because it is vnbloudy it is in the remembrance of it A real presence they and you are sure of but what Christ did at his last supper to force that real presence none of you know What he tooke what he blessed what he brake what he gaue whereof he spake whē he said Take eate this is my body that you know not nor are ever able with al the wits you haue to explane In the Popes supremacie you do the like no man amongst you whatsoeuer is able to determine whether he claime his superioritie and rule iure divino by Gods Law yea or no because some of you say yea and some no or whether he may called vniversall bishop Stapleton denieth it Bellarmine alloweth it which shall we beleeue So that refusing our bookes if you wil but read your owne you shal content me Reade them fift them compare them if not with ours yet one with an other try whither I be an Impostor or if you finde them constant plaine and sincere follow thē on Gods name I wil neuer perswade you otherwise but if you perceiue them inconstant intricate and darke so that you vnderstand not their meaning think they may deceiue you thinke that their words in conference are more cunningly placed then their arguments are in disputation when they are driven to proue in the one they saie to you what they please and in the other they must proue what they can I do freely protest vnto you I impute not this to the disability of the men if they had a right cause in hand they could easily make it good but as Lactantius saide of Tully Lact. li. 2. c. 10 Haec non est Ciceronis culpa sed secta This is not Ciceroes fault but the sects whereof he was so that your Masters can bring their matters to no better passe in discourse is not their fault but the fault of the cause they haue in hand if it could bee done they could doe it And the same Lactantius noteth of the Heathen Lib. 2. c. 1. although in the course of their liues they would never acknowledge the only God or the God of the Christians But saith he if any necessity vrged them if any pestilence annoyed them tunc deum recordantur then they remember God ad Deum confugiunt they fly to God à Deo petitur auxilium they pray helpe at Gods hand Deus vt subve●iat oratur thee desire that God would succour them so is it with our aduersaries towards vs they beleeue vs not in the matter of the sacrament they detest our supper the presence we make Christ to haue Equidem statuere nō possum dolēdum ne potius an ridendum putē cum vide●… graves doctos vt sibi videntur sapientes viros in tam miserandis errorum fluctibus volutari Lact. lib. 1 c 18. But come to discourse presse them hard with argument hold thē to it they fly their owne very words vse ours ours I say wherwith we expresse our mindes and cannot say any thing for themselues if they borrow not our language as by the discourse following shal be seene Pause vpon this and demand what they meane I cānot determine whether I should more pittie them or laugh at them when I see such zealous men in their cause as they seeme to be so deeply plūged in such miserable quavemires For neuer yet did I read any of your books but in on point or other there was disagreement frō others of the same side or the author contrarie to himselfe or adding or subtracting from the text which he medled with or in some answere or defence so grosse and childish that a weak mā might haue ouerthrowen him Or absolutly whē the matter came to the vpshot said noe other then that which we haue said I wil not bee found in this impudently to belie anie of your writers with more then is to bee found in the verie pages of their bookes as your men deale by vs but what I laie vpon thē be ye sure there to finde it And although the whol course of this booke doe goe against you and your teachers in this kinde yet wil I giue here a tast of their dealing beefore hand which I purposly kept for this place because I would not heape vp al I could saie at once but sparse and let them fall here some there some the better to profit B. Iuells chaleng art 2. Hard. against the Bishop art 2. fol. 55. 56. One of the Articles wherof Bishop Juell contended with D Harding was that the Holie Communion for the space of 600. yeares after Christ was neuer ministred opēly in the Church vnto the people vnder one kinde which is bread the cupp being takē from them In discussing of which point D Harding graunteth that it was ministred in both kinds at Corinth as appeareth by S Paul and in sundrie other places saith he as wee finde most evidently in the writings of diuers ancient fathers Stapleton confesseth as much Retorne of vntruthes art 2. fol. 44. b. that S Paul and the primitiue Church vsed so to doe longe and manie yeares What is this but to grant the whole question so grow frō that which they tooke vpon them to iustifie For if S. Paul the primitiue Church vsed to minister it in both kinds longe and manie yeares together what is this but to saie as B. Iuell said The communion better thē the priuate Masse Hard. art 1. fol. 39. b the communion was neuer ministred openly to the people in one kinde for the space of 600. years after Christ The like doth D. Harding confesse for the priuate Masse for which he disputeth to iustifie the preists sole receauing Marie J denie not saith hee but that it were more commendable and more godly on the Churches part if many well disposed examined would be partakers of the blessed sacrament with the priest but though the clergie be worthilie blamed for negligence herein through which the people maie be thought to haue growen to this slacknesse and indeuotion yet notwithstanding this part of the Catholike religion remaineth sound and faultlesse Againe whether I can shew that a masse was said without companie present to receaue with the Priest that said it or no what skilleth it such particularities and specialties of a matter of fact were verie seldome recorded by writers of the first 600. yeares The priuate masse is now become a matter of small waight yet you saie the people receaue spiritually whē they looke on receaue nothing Reioynder fol 210. This is more then a matter of smal waight as you said euen nowe by this the preists priuate masse makes the people haue a true communion Hard. art 1 fol. 28. Dor. art 4. fol. 97. Hard. cont Iuell art 1. fol. 34 b. for a priuat masse art 2. fo 64. for an ha● communion Saund. de visib monar l. 7. fol.
covenant and promise aside are not worthy of eternal life Gods mercy and promise is then his best stake howsoeuer sometimes he would pul it vp To make our workes truely and properly meritorious and fully worthy of euerlasting life What they say of good works Rhem. 2. Tim. 4 v 8. Ieam c. 2 v. 22. What they say of good works and more principal causes in the matter of iustification then faith to make them the cause of heauen as ill deeds are the cause of hel To say that we may trust vnto them that they are true righteousnesse and that they are able to abide the iudgment of God And yet to say that it is of his free mercie and liberality that either he promised any such reward to our works and that the works of themselues are his none of ours and that when he crowneth our works he crowneth his owne gifts that he rewardeth them aboue our desert and al this in respect of his free promise and graunt are the words of men that are disposed to play their parts on a stage and when they are out of their parts to imagin some God to come downe amongst them to keepe their credit with the people for their tenor and breefe of all their talke is we haue truely and properlie deserued heauen because of his free bountie mercie he first promised and then gaue it vs. Stapleton after much debating of this questiòn De vniuets iustif doct lib. 10 c. 7. fol. 361. God is to himself not not to vs. commeth in the end to this That debter whensoeuer we doe read in the ancient fathers that god is debter vnto vs in the great gift of eternal life It must be vnderstood as debter to himselfe and in respect of his owne promises and that hee is not debter vnto vs to himselfe not to vs for his own promises not for the worthines of vs or our woorks If this suffice them wee will stand to it God is iust sai● we in that he keepeth promise and doth not deceaue his of that reward Whitak cont Gul. Reynold fol. 58. which they hope for but the promise is free for freely he promised and freely hee giueth yet in that hee bound himself vnto vs by his free promise it was iust that he should performe the same not that wee haue iustly and worthilie deserued any part of that reward but because it is meete that God be alwaies faithfull in his words And so make him if debter to any thē to himselfe as Stapleton speaketh The Crowne is the reward which God hath promised to the worke not because the worke is vvorthie of it but because it pleased him so graciously and liberaly to bestowe such excellent rewards vpō vs that haue deserued so little and so keep in with the promise and couenant and exact nothing of him because al are his as Bellarmine a voucheth Cui redderet coronam iustus iudex si nō donasset gratiā misericors pater quomodo eslet ista corona iustitiae nisi pra cessisset gratia quae iustificat impium Augde gra lib. arb c. 6. ●nnot 2. Tim. 4. v. 8. And when he crowneth vs he crowneth his owne gifts not our workes giuing before what he repaieth after For how should hee repay as a iust iudge vnlesse he had first giuen as a merciful father how should this be a crowne of iustice if grace had not gon before which iustifieth the vngodly man as saie the Rhemists Of these notes and the rest in this whole booke following I would haue you that are seduced to demand of your teachers what they thinke praying them to reveiwe reexamine them and for your parts to marke how they answere defend their opiniōs but see with your own eies trust not theirs Thinke that the verie debating of these questions vvhich they cannot chuse but handle hath drawen such confessiōs from them settle your selues but once to compare their reasons First with the holie scripture then with the ancient fathers of the primitiue time and lastly by the protestant writers of this age in the Church of England and then iudge where the truth is you wil then sone perceiue I wil speake of one for all that noe man can more fully contradict Bellarmine then Bellarmine doth himselfe Nec enim poterit ab vilo Cicero quam Cicerohe vehemen ius resutari l 2. c. 9. fol. 148 Cicer pro domo sua post medium Staplet in the fortresse f. 5. b as Lactantius said of Tully If he or anie of them or al of them bee growen in your opinious great it is but the elemēts of your sloth that wil not giue you leaue to looke on him Calamitas huius temporiss lan dem viri propagauit The miserie of this time wherin pusillanimity so much reigneth in your mindes hath gotten him the praise he hath and not the cause he handleth for looke into that and you vvill bee ashamed both of it and him Wee all iumpe in this As noe building standeth without a sure and substantial foundation so noe life no saluation is to be hoped for vvithout a right and true faith Let vs therfore look whom vve trust and what vve beleue Sireligio tollitur vulla nobis ratio cum coelo est Lactant l 3 〈◊〉 10. away religion fol. 224. Take and we haue noe societie with heauen Non hic nobis labor Invtilis ad pernitiem sed vtili ad salutem Aug ep 111. The Iewes could tel that the golden calfe which they worshiped was not God yet were they idolaters and the heathen did not thinke did not thinke that those thinges which they made with their hands to be Gods c. and yet were they grosse Idolaters A quibus si persuasionis eius rationem requiras nuilam possint reddere sed ad maio rum iudicia cōfugiant quod alli sapientes fuerint illi pro bauerint illi scierint quid esset optimum seque ipsos sēsibus spoliant ratione abdicant dum alienis erroribus jeredunt Lact 5. c. 20. the labour therof is not vnprofitable leading vs to destruction but profitable bringing to salvation Beleiue not them that woulde drawe you from knowledge Knowe that they abuse you that saie the scriptures are not for you to read and al to keepe you in ignorance because you shal not see what they say or doe Take you heed of them that teach you worshiping of Images praying to Saints that plead their pardons their purgatorie noe one sillable in Gods booke sounding anie waie to either of them I knowe they haue excuses that you doe it not to the image but to the thinge represented which excuse besides that it is the same that the Iewes and all Idolaters that vvere heathen could make for themselues it is a mōstrous vntruth in it selfe They know there be amongst them who haue written in defence of the vvorshiping of the imag of the Crosse and trinitie
it pleased almighty God to send ease to his Church in making her chiefe enemies her dearest friends Then began Kings to be her nursing fathers Queenes to be her nursing mothers Then first called he Constantinus surnamed the Great to the knowledge of the truth Esay 49. v. 23. After the first 300. yeeres of a Pagan becōming a Christian putting downe Idololatry and erecting the true service of God Vnder him and his sonnes there liued the Romane Bishops Melchiades Silvester Marcus Iulius Liberius and Felix Strife about Felix Eccle 1. hier l. 4 c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this and Felix Strife about Felix Eccles hier l. 4. c. 8. There is much strife in the church of Rome at this day about this Felix some of them reakoning him for a Pope and some putting him out Albertus Pighius saith they that register him for a Pope bewray their own ignorance Bellarmine saith Bell. de Rom. pont li. 4. c. 9. fol. 509. their church worshippeth him as Pope and Martyr The strife betweene them two about Felix groweth about Liberius who was Pope next before him This Liberius in his banishment vnder Constantius the Emperour did subscribe to the Arrian heresy and so in his absence out of the Citty Felix was Pope in his roome Thus much doth Bellarmine cōnfesse of Liberius And because Pighius most impudētly denieth that he subscribed Chron. l. 3. fol. 574. Ammianus Marcellinus Comes So was Marcellinus martired yet he fell before They were wont to tell vs that Christ praied for Peter but nowe they tel vs he praied for the chaire he sitteth on Contra haer l. 1. c. 4. Defen Conc. Trid. li. 2. fol. 244. Fasc Tempor in liberio Platina in liberio Annot. Onuphrij Anast Bibl. in Lib. Feli. About the yere of our Lord. 370. A schisme at Rome between Damasus Vrsinus Polid. Verg. de inven rerū li. 5. c. 4. f. 401. Bellar. de cleric l. 1. c. 18. f. 92. Aug. epist 93. l. 2. ad Bonif. cont 2. epist Pelag. c. 4. therefore he shutteth out Felix from being Pope at all D. Genebrard cannot tel what to say directly on this Felix part First he telleth vs that Ammianus Marcellinus in his Chronicles did passe by him as suspected of heresie and Onuphrius one that wished as wel to the sea of Rome as wel might be maketh him a schismatike and an vnlawful Pope for Liberius over liued him obtained the place alone But other more truer saith he do report that he was Martired in a tumult by the Arrians And yet in the next words he saith that Felix was appointed by Acatius the disciple of Eusebius into the place of Liberius and held for an Arian But such was the force of the Chaire that it would rather hold a Martyr Pope than an heretike Pope or one that should favor the heretikes Thus farre Genebrard Alphousus a Castro maketh no question but that Liberius was an Arrian heretike Anàradius is content that we should cal him vnconstant faithlesse or vniust but in no case an heretike Fasciculus Temporū saith he was the first infamous Pope If you desire more of these two Popes Liberius and Felix read or cause to bee read vnto you Platina who wrote the liues of the Popes and Onuphrius annotations on him and Anastatius Bibliothecarius on the same argument set out by thēselues not aboue three yeeres since and you shal see diversity enough After those followed Damasus Siricius Anastasius Innocentius Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus Sixtus 3. and Leo the great There was a schisme then in the Church of Rome betweene Damasus and one Vrsinus or Vrcisianus but Damasus obtained yet not without bloud Siricius was the first that in the west parts forbad priests to marry as Polidore Virgil alleadgeth out of Gratian whervnto Bellarmine is now fairely come That it is not forbidden by the law of God that Priests should marry Innocentius the first held and taught a dangerous errour that is That it is necessary to salvation for infants to receiue the cōmunion contrary to Saint Paules rule that none should receiue but those that are able to examine themselues and contrary to the doctrine of the Church of Rome vnder Pius quartus in the Tridentine counsell which accurseth those that thinke the Eucharist is to bee given to infantes before the yeares of discretion Sess 21. can 4. The bishops of Rome contended with the bishops of Aphrica for superiority Bonifacius 1. was the sonne of lucundus a Preist as saith Platina so was Felix 3 who immediatly followed sonne vnto Felix a Priest Leo epist 45. Fasciculus tēp Geneb in Chron. l 3. fol. 600. Eulatius against Bonifacius an 423. Gelasius was the sonne of a bishop called Valerius Plat. in vit eius The first 600. yeares Gelasius decreed in 2. maine points against them now Anastasius 2. an heretike so that the Apostolicall seate in one of these two must needs er In Sozimus Bonifacius Celestinus time there was much cōtrouersie between thē the Aphrican bishops touching appeales to Rome Sozimus began the claime and could not make it good he graced himselfe with warrant from the Nicene councell which beeing demanded no canon nor decree could be shewed The Aphricā bishops deny their appeales thither and so grew much turmoile But if all Churches in al cases were subiect to the sea of Rome iure diuino by Gods law as they would make vs beleeue now very simple was Sozimus to claime by the Canons of the councel of Nice and very forgetful of their duties were the Aphrican bishops who would put him to proue his authoritie by an humane invention when the high God had by his lawes subiected them vnto him before Leo the great yet was his authoritie so smal that hee could not remoue Abbat Eutiches from him but was forced to intreate the Empresse Pulcheria to vse her authoritie therin By this time there had bin fowre schismes in the church of Rome yet Genebrard acknowledged but three After Leo were Hillarius Simplicianus Felix 3. Gelasius Anastasius 2. Simmachus Hormisda Iohn 1. Felix 4. Bonifacius 2. Iohn 2. Agapetus Silverius Vigilius Pelagius Iohn 3. Benedictus Pelagius 2. Gregory the greate these reacheth downe to the first 600. yeares Amongst which Gelasius decreed that to minister the holy communiō in one kind is open sacriledge and againe he defined that the substance of bread and wine remaine after consecratiō both which are diametrally opposite to the doctrine of the new church of Rome Anastasius the second was an heretike as appeareth by the histories Wernerus saith he was the 2 infamous Pope he was a Nestorian heretike as before him his predecessor Liberius was an Arrian Vigilius vsed indirect means to attaine to the Popedōe Huius Vigilij ingressus parum legitimus suit cum praetet ecclesiasticas regulas praedecessore suo Silverio viuente Pōtificatus administratione