half_a that_o you_o now_o oppose_v and_o suffer_v i_o to_o answer_v prove_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n or_o by_o any_o of_o the_o father_n for_o the_o first_o 600_o year_n these_o present_a tenet_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n viz._n 1._o that_o all_o power_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 2._o that_o no_o scripture_n sense_n or_o translation_n thereof_o be_v authentical_a unless_o the_o same_o be_v receive_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o that_o the_o roman_a church_n only_o be_v and_o be_v the_o authentical_a custos_fw-la of_o unwritten_a tradition_n 4._o that_o all_o general_a counsel_n be_v call_v by_o the_o sole_a authority_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o he_o may_v ratify_v and_o disannuall_a whatsoever_o please_v he_o in_o they_o 5._o that_o the_o pope_n only_o have_v power_n to_o canonize_v saint_n 6._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v or_o have_v power_n to_o depose_v prince_n prove_v all_o or_o any_o of_o these_o and_o we_o will_v neither_o carp_v nor_o cavil_n about_o name_n but_o answer_v direct_o without_o all_o delay_n evasion_n or_o tergiversation_n m._n fisher._n when_o you_o doctor_z white_a or_o doctor_n feat_o have_v prove_v your_o church_n to_o be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o name_v visible_a protestant_n than_o i_o promise_v you_o to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o catholic_a roman_a church_n but_o that_o be_v not_o do_v by_o you_o yet_o d._n feat_o it_o have_v be_v do_v but_o for_o your_o delay_n and_o tergiversation_n answer_v brief_o and_o direct_o to_o my_o former_a argument_n and_o i_o will_v descend_v to_o my_o induction_n and_o produce_v the_o name_n of_o such_o eminent_a person_n as_o in_o all_o age_n have_v maintain_v the_o substantial_a point_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o we_o differ_v from_o your_o roman_a church_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v therefore_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n etc._n etc._n the_o mayor_n be_v ex_fw-la concessis_fw-la what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o minor_a m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v the_o minor_n d._n feat_o upon_o what_o term_n do_v you_o distinguish_v m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v of_o the_o proposition_n not_o of_o any_o term_n d._n feat_o here_o be_v again_o another_o strain_n of_o new_a logic_n to_o distinguish_v of_o a_o proposition_n and_o apply_v the_o distinction_n to_o no_o term_n howsoever_o i_o be_o glad_a to_o hear_v you_o distinguish_v and_o not_o simple_o to_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n mark_v i_o beseech_v you_o you_o that_o be_v present_a that_o m._n fisher_n demur_n upon_o the_o proposition_n his_o conscience_n will_v not_o suffer_v he_o simple_o to_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n we_o simple_o and_o slat_o and_o in_o downright_a term_n deny_v that_o your_o present_a tridentine_a faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v you_o before_o that_o your_o minor_n be_v false_a and_o impertinent_a d._n feat_o i_o have_v prove_v already_o that_o it_o be_v pertinent_a what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o m._n fisher._n this_o be_v to_o divert_v from_o the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v not_o now_o whether_o our_o faith_n or_o you_o be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n but_o the_o question_n now_o be_v of_o the_o effect_n to_o wit_n the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n which_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n d._n feat_o may_v not_o a_o man_n prove_v the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v there_o no_o other_o mean_n to_o prove_v the_o effect_n but_o by_o name_v man_n and_o produce_v author_n for_o it_o m._n sweet_a a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la the_o question_n be_v about_o a_o effect_n therefore_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v it_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la d._n feat_o what_o a_o reason_n be_v this_o may_v not_o a_o effect_n be_v prove_v by_o his_o cause_n must_v a_o effect_n be_v needs_o prove_v by_o a_o effect_n or_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la because_o a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la m._n sweet_a leave_v these_o logic_n dispute_v bring_v the_o name_n of_o your_o protestant_n that_o be_v it_o we_o expect_v d._n feat_o if_o i_o shall_v relinquish_v my_o former_a argument_n to_o which_o yet_o you_o have_v give_v no_o manner_n of_o answer_n you_o m._n fisher_n will_v report_v that_o i_o be_v non-plussed_n as_o you_o slander_v d._n white_a in_o a_o former_a conference_n who_o i_o tell_v you_o m._n fisher_n be_v able_a to_o teach_v we_o both_o whereto_o m._n fisher_n reply_v nothing_o to_o prevent_v all_o such_o misreport_n to_o the_o wrong_n of_o either_o it_o be_v move_v by_o the_o hearer_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v write_v down_o by_o the_o common_a writer_n of_o the_o conference_n that_o both_o the_o disputant_n be_v willing_a to_o proceed_v d._n feat_o be_v desire_v by_o the_o company_n because_o it_o be_v late_o to_o produce_v the_o name_n of_o such_o protestant_n as_o be_v extant_a before_o luther_n in_o all_o age_n this_o be_v write_v and_o subscribe_v by_o they_o both_o d._n feat_o proceed_v to_o his_o induction_n d._n feat_o a_o induction_n be_v a_o form_n of_o argument_n in_o which_o we_o proceed_v from_o enumeration_n of_o particular_n to_o conclude_v a_o general_a after_o this_o manner_n it_o be_v so_o in_o this_o and_o this_o et_fw-la sic_fw-la de_fw-fr eaeteris_fw-la and_o so_o in_o the_o rest_n therefore_o it_o be_v so_o in_o all_o according_a to_o this_o form_n of_o argue_v thus_o i_o dispute_v the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o teach_v and_o believe_v the_o doctrine_n thereof_o may_v be_v produce_v in_o the_o first_o hundred_o year_n and_o second_o and_o three_o and_o four_o et_fw-la sic_fw-la de_fw-fr caeteris_fw-la and_o so_o in_o the_o rest_n therefore_o it_o be_v so_o in_o all_o age_n first_o i_o name_v those_o of_o the_o first_o age_n and_o i_o begin_v with_o he_o who_o be_v the_o begin_n of_o all_o our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n bless_v for_o ever_o at_o who_o name_n all_o knee_n must_v bow_v both_o in_o heaven_n &_o earth_n and_o under_o the_o earth_n at_o which_o word_n all_o the_o company_n on_o both_o side_n express_v a_o holy_a reverence_n after_o christ_n i_o name_v the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o saint_n paul_n and_o because_o there_o be_v few_o writer_n in_o the_o first_o age_n at_o least_o who_o undoubted_a work_n have_v come_v to_o our_o hand_n i_o name_v only_a ignatius_n after_o the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o saint_n paul_n yet_o not_o deny_v but_o that_o many_o other_o may_v be_v name_v m._n fisher._n these_o be_v enough_o for_o the_o first_o age_n christ_n the_o twelve_o apostle_n saint_n paul_n and_o ignatitius_fw-la here_o at_o the_o name_n of_o ignatius_n some_o of_o m._n fisher_n side_n seem_v very_o glad_a and_o confident_a say_v we_o be_v sure_a enough_o saint_n ignatius_n be_v on_o our_o side_n d._n feat_o i_o mean_v not_o the_o new_a ignatius_n loyola_n but_o ignatius_n the_o martyr_n between_o who_o there_o be_v more_o difference_n in_o quality_n than_o distance_n in_o time_n m._n fisher._n name_v of_o all_o the_o age_n or_o else_o you_o do_v nothing_o d._n feat_o i_o can_v name_v all_o at_o once_o will_v you_o have_v i_o name_v man_n of_o so_o many_o age_n with_o one_o breath_n will_v you_o have_v i_o eat_v my_o whole_a dinner_n at_o a_o bit_n can_v i_o name_v twelve_o several_o but_o i_o must_v name_v first_o one_o than_o two_o then_o three_o and_o so_o forward_o i_o name_v as_o i_o say_v before_o in_o the_o first_o age_n for_o our_o religion_n our_o bless_a lord_n and_o saviour_n the_o founder_n of_o all_o religion_n the_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o after_o they_o saint_n paul_n and_o ignatius_n the_o martyr_n for_o the_o second_o age_n i_o name_v justin_n martyr_n age._n clemens_n alexandrinus_n and_o saint_n irenaeus_n and_o i_o begin_v first_o with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n m._n fisher._n you_o shall_v not_o begin_v with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n d._n feat_o you_o be_v not_o to_o make_v my_o induction_n i_o will_v begin_v with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n where_o i_o shall_v
cease_v doctor_z feat_o you_o have_v a_o purpose_n master_n fisher_n to_o cavil_n you_o know_v my_o meaning_n well_o enough_o by_o the_o term_n perpetual_a to_o wit_n that_o christian_a faith_n which_o have_v continue_v from_o christ_n first_o publish_v it_o till_o this_o present_a and_o shall_v continue_v till_o his_o second_o come_v the_o church_n which_o hould_v this_o faith_n you_o believe_v shall_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n hold_v this_o perpetual_a faith_n ergo._fw-la master_n fisher._n your_o argument_n be_v a_o fallacy_n call_v petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la doctor_z feat_o a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la causa_fw-la or_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la be_v not_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la but_o such_o be_v my_o argument_n ergo._fw-la be_v it_o not_o a_o sound_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o professor_n from_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o faith_n then_o as_o you_o do_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o faith_n from_o the_o visibilitie_n of_o professor_n visible_a professor_n argue_v not_o a_o right_a faith_n heretic_n mahumetanes_n and_o gentile_n have_v visible_a professor_n of_o their_o impiety_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o hence_o follow_v that_o they_o have_v a_o right_a belief_n on_o the_o contrary_a we_o know_v by_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o church_n which_o maintain_v the_o true_a faith_n shall_v have_v always_o professor_n more_o or_o less_o visible_a master_n sweet_a you_o ought_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o church_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la for_o that_o be_v to_o the_o question_n and_o not_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la doctor_z feat_o shall_v you_o prescribe_v i_o my_o weapon_n be_v not_o a_o argument_n à _fw-fr priori_fw-la better_o than_o a_o argument_n à _fw-fr posteriori_fw-la this_o be_v as_o if_o in_o battle_n you_o shall_v enjoin_v your_o enemy_n to_o stab_v you_o with_o a_o knife_n and_o not_o with_o a_o sword_n or_o dagger_n i_o will_v use_v what_o weapous_a i_o list_v take_v you_o what_o buckler_n you_o can_v master_n fisher._n a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la be_v more_o demonstrative_a than_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la here_o master_n fisher_n show_v his_o academical_a learning_n in_o prefer_v a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la by_o before_o that_o which_o proceed_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la be_v not_o a_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effect_n from_o the_o cause_n better_a than_o of_o the_o cause_n by_o the_o effect_n in_o this_o place_n or_o upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n again_o offer_v near_o the_o end_n of_o the_o disputation_n master_n sweet_a reply_v m._n sweet_a this_o be_v to_o divert_v the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v not_o now_o whether_o our_o faith_n or_o you_o be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n but_o the_o question_n now_o be_v of_o the_o effect_n to_o wit_n the_o visibilitie_n of_o your_o church_n which_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n doctor_z feat_o may_v not_o a_o man_n prove_v the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v there_o no_o other_o mean_n to_o prove_v the_o effect_n but_o by_o name_v man_n and_o produce_v author_n for_o it_o master_n sweet_a a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la the_o question_n be_v about_o a_o effect_n therefore_o you_o ought_v to_o prove_v it_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la doctor_z feat_o what_o a_o reason_n be_v this_o may_v not_o a_o effect_n be_v prove_v by_o his_o cause_n must_v a_o effect_n be_v needs_o prove_v by_o a_o effect_n or_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la because_o a_o effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la master_n fisher_n answer_n thus_o far_o the_o relator_n who_o have_v here_o add_v much_o more_o than_o be_v say_v and_o in_o particular_a those_o formal_a word_n which_o he_o report_v master_n fisher_n to_o have_v say_v viz._n a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la be_v more_o demonstrative_a then_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la master_n fisher_n do_v not_o speak_v perhaps_o he_o may_v say_v that_o a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la do_v better_a demonstrate_v to_o we_o then_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la not_o mean_v in_o general_a to_o prefer_v a_o logical_a demonstration_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la before_o that_o which_o be_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la but_o that_o such_o a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la as_o he_o in_o this_o present_a question_n require_v and_o as_o the_o question_n itself_o exact_v will_v better_o demonstrate_v or_o show_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n than_o any_o proof_n which_o doctor_n feat_o or_o d._n white_n can_v make_v à _fw-fr priori_fw-la to_o prove_v the_o protestant_a church_n to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n as_o shall_v be_v show_v when_o need_n be_v hereafter_o at_o this_o present_a it_o may_v suffieâ—â—â—_n say_v to_o that_o which_o doctor_n feat_o now_o object_v against_o the_o proof_n take_v from_o visibility_n that_o although_o all_o kind_n of_o visible_a professor_n do_v not_o argue_v right_a faith_n yet_o want_v of_o visibile_fw-la professor_n argue_v want_v of_o christ_n true_a church_n for_o suppose_v it_o to_o be_v true_a which_o even_o d._n feat_o himself_o here_o say_v according_a to_o the_o protestant_n relator_n viz._n we_o know_v by_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o church_n which_o maintain_v the_o true_a faith_n shall_v have_v always_o professor_n more_o or_o less_o visible_a and_o as_o master_n fisher_n further_o prove_v in_o one_o of_o the_o foresay_a paper_n give_v to_o the_o old_a gentleman_n before_o this_o meeting_n so_o visible_a as_o their_o name_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n suppose_v also_o out_o of_o doctor_n whitaker_n contr_n dur._n l._n 7._o p._n 472._o that_o whatsoever_o be_v foretell_v by_o the_o ancient_a prophet_n of_o the_o propagation_n amplitude_n and_o glory_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o clear_o witness_v by_o history_n and_o suppose_v last_o out_o of_o doctor_n john_n white_a in_o his_o way_n p._n 338._o that_o thing_n past_o can_v be_v show_v to_o we_o but_o by_o history_n suppose_v all_o this_o i_o say_v it_o be_v most_o apparent_a that_o if_o there_o can_v be_v produce_v as_o there_o can_v name_n of_o protestant_n or_o of_o any_o other_o professor_n of_o christian_a faith_n in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o history_n to_o who_o god_n promise_v agree_v beside_o those_o which_o be_v know_v roman_n catholic_n not_o protestant_n nor_o any_o other_o but_o only_o the_o roman_a catholic_n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n which_o teach_v the_o true_a faith_n and_o of_o which_o all_o sort_n be_v to_o learn_v infallible_a faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n doctor_n featly_n reply_n i_o marvel_v not_o m._n fisher_n that_o you_o leave_v m._n sweet_a in_o the_o sud_n for_o you_o have_v much_o ado_n with_o all_o your_o strength_n and_o skill_n to_o get_v yourself_o out_o of_o the_o mire_n m._n sweet_a since_o he_o leave_v our_o university_n and_o be_v metriculate_v into_o your_o society_n seem_v to_o speak_v in_o our_o academical_a phrase_n to_o have_v resume_v gradum_fw-la simeonis_fw-la and_o to_o have_v proceed_v backward_o for_o whatsoever_o truth_n in_o logic_n or_o philosophy_n he_o have_v learn_v in_o our_o school_n he_o have_v learned_a to_o unlearn_v in_o you_o it_o seem_v he_o have_v meet_v with_o some_o such_o master_n as_o timotheus_n the_o musician_n be_v who_o take_v double_a pay_n of_o his_o scholar_n for_o unteach_v they_o what_o they_o have_v learn_v of_o other_o he_o be_v teach_v in_o our_o school_n that_o a_o effect_n can_v be_v scientifical_o prove_v or_o demonstrate_v 2_o but_o by_o the_o cause_n for_o scire_fw-la est_fw-la causam_fw-la scire_fw-la propter_fw-la quam_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o demonstratio_fw-la be_v syllogismus_fw-la scientificus_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o scientifical_a syllogism_n proceed_v of_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v former_a in_o nature_n and_o more_o know_v and_o cause_n of_o the_o conclusion_n all_o this_o he_o have_v unlearned_a and_o will_v needs_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v we_o that_o a_o effect_n because_o it_o be_v posterius_fw-la must_v needs_o be_v prove_v by_o a_o effect_n and_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n that_o effect_n by_o another_o effect_n and_o three_o the_o roman_a or_o western_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o papacy_n or_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n in_o it_o which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n but_o a_o prevalent_a and_o predominant_a faction_n in_o it_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o member_n though_o a_o sick_a and_o weak_a one_o of_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n and_o consequent_o to_o have_v some_o part_n in_o the_o gracious_a promise_n make_v to_o the_o church_n in_o the_o gospel_n but_o the_o papacy_n or_o that_o predominant_a faction_n be_v no_o member_n but_o a_o botch_n or_o a_o aposteme_a in_o the_o church_n to_o which_o none_o of_o those_o promise_n belong_v yet_o many_o
faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v eternal_a perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a therefore_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v pretend_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o be_v m._n fisher._n i_o distinguish_v the_o mayor_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a so_o as_o the_o name_n can_v be_v show_v be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o m._n fisher_n pretend_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v i_o grant_v it_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a yet_o so_o as_o the_o name_n can_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o m._n fisher_n pretend_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v i_o deny_v it_o to_o the_o minor_a i_o apply_v the_o like_a distinction_n and_o consequent_o to_o the_o conclusion_n in_o the_o same_o manner_n d._n feat_o what_o answer_v you_o to_o the_o conclusion_n also_o this_o be_v a_o strain_n of_o new_a logic_n m._n fisher._n tolle_o distinctionem_fw-la d._n feat_o a_o strange_a distinction_n of_o the_o etemity_n of_o faith_n by_o professer_n to_o be_v name_v writing_n and_o not_o to_o be_v name_v what_o be_v professer_n nominable_a or_o innominable_a to_o the_o eternity_n of_o faith_n m._n fisher._n conclude_v that_o which_o i_o deny_v that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o eternal_a as_o the_o name_n of_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v the_o catholic_a and_o primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v be_v so_o perpetual_a &_o visible_a as_o the_o name_n of_o some_o of_o that_o church_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n but_o distinctio_fw-la the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v the_o primitive_a and_o catholic_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n without_o which_o none_o can_v be_v save_v therefore_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o perpetual_a and_o visible_a as_o the_o name_n of_o some_o of_o that_o church_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v the_o minor_n if_o this_o proposition_n be_v take_v simple_o in_o itself_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o but_o if_o this_o proposition_n be_v consider_v as_o it_o must_v be_v as_o relate_v to_o the_o first_o question_n and_o the_o end_n thereof_o i_o further_o add_v that_o it_o be_v not_o pertinent_a to_o that_o end_n for_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v intend_v to_o weet_v to_o show_v to_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o the_o infallible_a faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n without_o learn_v it_o of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o consequent_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v first_o to_o be_v show_v before_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n in_o particular_a shall_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o first_o writer_n what_o speak_v you_o of_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o faith_n be_v any_o man_n able_a by_o his_o own_o ability_n without_o the_o help_n of_o divine_a grace_n second_o what_o help_v the_o visibility_n to_o confirm_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n visibility_n indeed_o prove_v a_o church_n but_o not_o the_o true_a church_n heer_n m._n fisher_n allege_v some_o word_n out_o of_o d._n field_n of_o the_o church_n suppose_v thereby_o to_o justify_v his_o former_a answer_n whereunto_o d._n feat_o promise_v answer_n shall_v be_v make_v when_o it_o come_v to_o their_o turn_n to_o answer_v now_o he_o be_v by_o order_n to_o oppose_v m._n fisher._n d._n feat_o the_o sum_n of_o your_o former_a answer_n be_v that_o the_o minor_a of_o my_o former_a syllogism_n be_v both_o false_a and_o impertinent_a it_o be_v neither_o false_a nor_o impertinent_a therefore_o your_o answer_n be_v false_a and_o impertinent_a and_o first_o my_o minor_n be_v not_o false_a m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n that_o it_o be_v both_o false_a and_o impertinent_a but_o i_o add_v that_o for_o the_o present_a it_o must_v first_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v pertinent_a or_o else_o it_o divert_v we_o from_o the_o chief_a end_n of_o our_o dispute_n which_o be_v as_o i_o say_v before_o that_o infallible_a truth_n may_v be_v learn_v of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n and_o not_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n by_o first_o find_v every_o particular_a infallible_a truth_n and_o by_o that_o to_o conclude_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n d._n feat_o i_o prove_v that_o the_o minor_a be_v pertinent_a that_o minor_a proposition_n which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a last_o deny_v be_v pertinent_a to_o the_o probation_n of_o that_o minor_a deny_v but_o the_o minor_a proposition_n of_o the_o three_o syllogism_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a last_o deny_v therefore_o the_o minor_a of_o that_o syllogism_n be_v pertinent_a note_v that_o m._n fisher_n answer_n to_o every_o one_o of_o these_o syllogism_n be_v pen_v by_o he_o verbatim_o with_o the_o advice_n of_o m._n sweet_a and_o one_o other_o suggest_v private_o and_o amend_v what_o they_o think_v fit_a which_o breed_v much_o delay_n irkesom_a to_o the_o hearer_n and_o the_o opponent_n then_o say_v you_o be_v very_o long_o ward_n m._n fisher_n m._n chamberlain_n stand_v by_o say_v let_v he_o alone_o for_o he_o and_o his_o learned_a council_n be_v not_o yet_o agree_v m_o fisher._n i_o distinguish_v the_o mayor_n that_o minor_a proposition_n which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n do_v necessary_o and_o direct_o infer_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o minor_a in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v serve_v for_o the_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v ordain_v i_o grant_v it_o to_o be_v pertinent_a but_o if_o it_o do_v infer_v the_o conclusion_n yet_o not_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v serve_v for_o that_o purpose_n for_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v ordain_v i_o deny_v the_o mayor_n here_o the_o disputant_n iar_v and_o so_o the_o writer_n cease_v yet_o that_o which_o follow_v be_v then_o deliver_v by_o they_o d._n feat_o that_o minor_n which_o together_o with_o the_o mayor_n infer_v the_o proposition_n last_o deny_v the_o whole_a process_n have_v be_v per_fw-la direct_v a_o media_fw-la be_v pertinent_a to_o that_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o dispute_n be_v ordain_v but_o this_o minor_a together_o with_o the_o mayor_n direct_o and_o necessary_o infer_v the_o proposition_n last_o deny_v the_o whole_a process_n have_v be_v per_fw-la directa_fw-la media_fw-la therefore_o it_o be_v pertinent_a to_o that_o purpose_n to_o which_o the_o dispute_n be_v ordain_v m._n fisher._n your_o media_n in_o your_o syllogism_n be_v directa_fw-la but_o they_o tend_v not_o ad_fw-la directum_fw-la finem_fw-la d._n feat_o this_o be_v a_o bull._n m._n fisher._n media_fw-la directa_fw-la yet_o not_o addirectum_fw-la finem_fw-la that_o be_v direct_v and_o not_o direct_v for_o media_n be_v say_v to_o be_v directa_fw-la only_o ratione_fw-la finis_fw-la in_o regard_n of_o the_o end_n m._n sweet_a be_v there_o not_o a_o fault_n in_o argue_v call_v transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la when_o a_o man_n by_o argue_v quite_o leave_v the_o main_a question_n and_o subject_n d._n feat_o i_o acknowledge_v that_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la be_v a_o fault_n in_o dispute_v but_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o the_o inference_n of_o the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v transitio_fw-la a_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la such_o be_v my_o argument_n for_o faith_n in_o a_o right_a believer_n produce_v profession_n and_o confession_n thereof_o which_o make_v a_o visible_a member_n and_o the_o like_a profession_n of_o many_o member_n a_o visible_a church_n where_o the_o cause_n be_v perpetual_a the_o effect_n must_v needs_o be_v perpetual_a therefore_o where_o the_o faith_n be_v perpetual_a the_o profession_n thereof_o must_v needs_o be_v and_o consequent_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o be_v this_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la d._n good_n m._n sweet_a you_o once_o learn_v better_a logic_n in_o cambridge_n than_o you_o show_v now_o here_o again_o those_o of_o m._n fisher_n side_n call_v for_o name_n where_o be_v your_o name_n d._n white_a say_v d._n white_a this_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o apparent_a tergiversation_n you_o will_v not_o answer_v any_o argument_n direct_o nor_o suffer_v we_o to_o proceed_v in_o our_o argument_n and_o therefore_o i_o require_v you_o m._n fisher_n according_a to_o the_o order_n mention_v in_o the_o beginning_n for_o each_o party_n to_o have_v a_o hour_n and_o a_o
i_o in_o my_o argument_n nor_o you_o in_o your_o answer_n use_v those_o word_n 〈◊〉_d aeterno_fw-la page_n 22._o to_o that_o syllogism_n in_o the_o conference_n viz._n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o the_o popiâ—â—_n church_n by_o m._n fisher_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v eternal_a perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a ergo_fw-la the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v pretend_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o be_v you_o answer_v that_o the_o mayor_n be_v not_o universal_o true_a for_o that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n or_o company_n who_o may_v have_v inward_a faith_n eternal_a and_o unchanged_a as_o for_o example_n a_o church_n of_o angel_n who_o for_o want_v of_o visible_a professor_n be_v not_o so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v quid_fw-la ad_fw-la rombum_fw-la what_o be_v this_o instance_n to_o the_o purpose_n i_o dispute_v of_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n you_o answer_v of_o the_o church_n in_o heaven_n i_o dispute_v of_o faith_n you_o answer_v of_o vision_n i_o dispute_v of_o a_o church_n succeed_v in_o all_o age_n you_o answer_v of_o a_o church_n in_o which_o there_o be_v no_o succeed_a nor_o age_n i_o dispute_v of_o a_o church_n visible_a in_o all_o age_n you_o answer_v of_o a_o church_n visible_a in_o no_o age._n i_o dispute_v of_o noble_a confessor_n &_o martyr_n who_o have_v seal_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n with_o their_o blood_n you_o answer_v of_o immortal_a spirit_n in_o a_o word_n i_o dispute_v of_o man_n name_v in_o good_a author_n and_o history_n you_o answer_v of_o angel_n who_o name_n be_v write_v in_o heaven_n and_o be_v never_o upon_o visible_a record_n except_o two_o or_o three_o name_v in_o the_o scripture_n page_n 31._o to_o those_o word_n of_o i_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o the_o inference_n of_o the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la such_o be_v my_o argument_n for_o faith_n in_o a_o believer_n produce_v profession_n and_o confession_n thereof_o you_o reply_v that_o m._n sweet_a be_v logic_n be_v not_o less_o to_o be_v esteem_v if_o he_o have_v term_v that_o 〈◊〉_d to_o weet_v prove_v the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la for_o a_o cause_n as_o a_o cause_n a_o effect_n as_o a_o effect_n do_v not_o only_o differ_v specie_fw-la but_o also_o genere_fw-la and_o beside_o a_o proof_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la and_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la be_v diverse_a kind_n of_o proof_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i_o dispute_v of_o a_o transition_n à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la in_fw-la rebus_fw-la you_o answer_v of_o a_o transition_n in_o notionibus_fw-la i_o speak_v of_o a_o stray_n from_o the_o subject_n of_o the_o question_n you_o answer_v of_o pass_v through_o diverse_a head_n of_o logic_n in_o prove_v i_o speak_v of_o genus_fw-la in_o scientijs_fw-la you_o answer_v of_o 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o predicable_n or_o predicant_o so_o well_o in_o defence_n of_o m._n sweet_a you_o observe_v m_n sweet_n pretend_v law_n of_o speak_v nothing_o but_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o certain_o you_o see_v not_o the_o but_o and_o somiss_v the_o mark_n reading_z m._n sweet_n law_n without_o it_o thus_o item_n 2._o that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n every_o puney_n in_o logic_n can_v tell_v you_o that_o the_o meaning_n of_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la be_v the_o prove_v of_o a_o conclusion_n in_o one_o science_n by_o the_o principle_n of_o another_o distinct_a from_o it_o and_o no_o way_n subalternal_a to_o it_o as_o for_o example_n to_o demonstrate_v a_o conclusion_n in_o physic_n by_o principle_n in_o geometry_n or_o to_o demonstrate_v a_o conclusion_n in_o natural_a philosophy_n out_o of_o a_o principle_n or_o principle_n in_o moral_a philosophy_n but_o if_o your_o interpretation_n of_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la shall_v stand_v every_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la or_o of_o the_o cause_n by_o the_o effect_n 〈◊〉_d posteriori_fw-la in_o the_o same_o science_n shall_v be_v a_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la because_o as_o you_o say_v the_o cause_n as_o a_o cause_n and_o the_o effect_n as_o a_o effect_n differ_v genere_fw-la for_o which_o ignorant_a argue_n as_o m._n sweet_a be_v prick_v by_o d._n goad_n in_o the_o conference_n so_o you_o m._n fisher_n for_o your_o more_o ignorant_a and_o gross_a defence_n of_o it_o deserve_v to_o be_v send_v to_o fustitudinas_fw-la ferricrepinas_fw-la insulas_fw-la ubi_fw-la vivos_fw-la homines_fw-la mortui_fw-la incursant_fw-la boves_fw-la page_n 65._o you_o allege_v this_o for_o a_o reason_n why_o you_o refuse_v to_o answer_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n for_o that_o say_v you_o all_o disputation_n about_o particular_n before_o the_o true_a church_n be_v by_o her_o perpetual_a visibility_n or_o some_o such_o evident_a mark_n find_v out_o and_o know_v will_v have_v be_v fruitless_a and_o endless_a which_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o m._n fisher_n in_o another_o former_a conference_n have_v with_o a_o certain_a minister_n will_v not_o enter_v into_o any_o particular_n until_o he_o have_v ask_v these_o general_a question_n first_o what_o ground_n the_o minister_n will_v stand_v upon_o &_o c_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d here_o you_o bring-in_a by_o the_o head_n and_o ear_n a_o conference_n of_o you_o with_o a_o worthy_a minister_n and_o a_o acute_a disputant_n touch_v the_o merit_n of_o work_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n or_o a_o catalogue_n of_o name_n if_o this_o be_v not_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la i_o be_o sure_a it_o be_v transitio_fw-la à _fw-la quaestione_fw-la in_o quaestionem_fw-la a_o vagr_a from_o one_o question_n to_o another_o sufficient_o distant_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o cause_n at_o all_o give_v you_o of_o this_o digression_n for_o i_o draw_v you_o not_o to_o dispute_v about_o any_o particular_n but_o proceed_v to_o prove_v the_o general_a question_n propose_v by_o yourself_o to_o weet_v that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a in_o the_o first_o age_n that_o the_o name_n of_o those_o that_o teach_v the_o protestant_a faith_n may_v be_v produce_v viz._n christ_n his_o twelve_o apostle_n saint_n paul_n and_o ignatius_n to_o who_o after_o you_o have_v give_v your_o answer_n whether_o they_o teach_v our_o faith_n or_o you_o i_o will_v have_v go_v on_o in_o like_a manner_n in_o name_v the_o professor_n of_o the_o protestant_a faith_n in_o all_o age_n now_o then_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_v whether_o this_o your_o digression_n into_o a_o long_a tale_n of_o a_o conference_n of_o you_o with_o a_o minister_n touch_v merit_n be_v any_o way_n necessary_a or_o pertinent_a page_n 68_o 69_o 70._o you_o allege_v many_o say_n out_o of_o tertullian_n golden_a book_n of_o prescription_n to_o prove_v that_o heretic_n who_o reject_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolical_a and_o mother_n church_n and_o refuse_v also_o some_o scripture_n or_o pervert_v the_o text_n by_o addition_n and_o detraction_n shall_v not_o be_v admit_v to_o dispute_v with_o orthodoxal_a christian_n out_o of_o scripture_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o sentence_n indeed_o you_o cite_v be_v golden_a but_o you_o apply_v they_o most_o leaden_o for_o what_o protestant_n who_o by_o a_o ridiculous_a 〈◊〉_d principij_fw-la or_o beg_v the_o question_n you_o style_v heretic_n what_o protestant_n i_o say_v ever_o reject_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolical_a or_o mother_n church_n as_o they_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n much_o less_o either_o refuse_v or_o pervert_v any_o part_n of_o parcel_n of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n by_o addition_n or_o detraction_n we_o attribute_v much_o more_o to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o the_o ancient_a mother-church_n of_o which_o tertullian_n speak_v who_o receive_v the_o original_a of_o scripture_n from_o the_o author_n themselves_o than_o you_o do_v we_o willing_o put_v our_o whole_a cause_n in_o their_o hand_n we_o renounce_v any_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o can_v be_v prove_v to_o have_v be_v hold_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o heir_n tertullian_n speak_v of_o prove_v that_o the_o apostle_n or_o the_o primitive_a church_n immediate_o found_v by_o they_o hold_v your_o trent-faith_n or_o those_o twelve_o new_a article_n add_v by_o pope_n piuâ—_n in_o the_o end_n of_o that_o council_n and_o impose_v upon_o all_o professor_n to_o swear_v unto_o and_o then_o i_o will_v acknowledge_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v a_o good_a title_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o if_o we_o prove_v not_o that_o we_o
syllogistical_o d._n feat_o d._n feat_o you_o yourself_o make_v the_o first_o part_n a_o question_n by_o itself_o for_o at_o the_o margin_n over_o against_o the_o first_o part_n whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v ever_o visible_a you_o write_v i_o will_v answer_v it_o be_v not_o which_o word_n can_v have_v no_o construction_n if_o you_o refer_v they_o to_o both_o part_n or_o at_o all_o to_o the_o latter_a part_n to_o wit_n whether_o the_o name_n can_v be_v a_o show_v m._n fisher._n let_v we_o hear_v a_o syllogism_n d._n feat_o in_o this_o copulative_a proposition_n which_o you_o offer_v for_o a_o question_n and_o require_v i_o to_o prove_v either_o you_o deny_v both_o part_n or_o one_o only_a if_o both_o i_o be_o to_o prove_v both_o one_o after_o the_o other_o if_o one_o only_o than_o you_o grant_v the_o other_o a_o copulative_a be_v not_o true_a unless_o both_o part_n be_v true_a do_v you_o deny_v both_o or_o one_o only_o m._n fisher._n i_o say_v they_o be_v but_o one_o for_o the_o late_a part_n be_v to_o expound_v the_o former_a for_o i_o mean_v by_o visible_a so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n may_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o this_o be_v to_o confound_v two_o distinct_a question_n in_o one_o for_o a_o church_n may_v have_v be_v visible_a and_o yet_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a professor_n not_o now_o to_o be_v show_v m._n fisher._n they_o be_v my_o word_n and_o i_o be_o best_o able_a to_o expound_v my_o own_o meaning_n d._n feat_o a_o exposition_n which_o the_o construction_n of_o the_o word_n will_v not_o bear_v be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v but_o the_o construction_n of_o the_o word_n will_v not_o bear_v this_o your_o exposition_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v and_o be_v a_o conjunction_n copulative_a &_o must_v add_v somewhat_o to_o that_o which_o go_v before_o it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o you_o shall_v expound_v the_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n provide_v honest_a thing_n before_o god_n and_o man_n before_o god_n that_o be_v before_o man_n m._n sweet_a what_o need_v you_o stand_v so_o much_o upon_o this_o if_o there_o be_v visible_a man_n certain_o they_o may_v be_v name_v name_v your_o visible_a protestant_n and_o it_o suffice_v bolton_n name_v visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n d._n feat_o it_o seem_v you_o be_v call_v nominal_n rather_o than_o call_v real_n you_o stand_v so_o much_o upon_o name_v will_v you_o undertake_v to_o name_v visible_a papist_n in_o all_o age_n by_o if_o neither_o you_o nor_o we_o can_v name_v visible_a professor_n of_o our_o religion_n in_o all_o age_n for_o aught_o i_o know_v the_o best_a way_n for_o we_o be_v to_o be_v all_o natural_a man_n d._n feat_o this_o be_v the_o right_a reason_n of_o a_o natural_a m._n sweet_a if_o there_o be_v visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n certain_o they_o may_v be_v name_v d._n feat_o that_o be_v a_o non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la for_o the_o reason_n beforenamed_a by_o i_o what_o say_v you_o to_o a_o people_n of_o africa_n who_o if_o we_o may_v believe_v pliny_n have_v no_o name_n at_o all_o m._n bolton_n yet_o they_o have_v description_n and_o may_v be_v know_v by_o some_o periphrasis_n d._n feat_o what_o say_v you_o then_o to_o the_o heretic_n call_v acephali_n who_o be_v so_o call_v because_o their_o head_n and_o author_n can_v be_v name_v nor_o particular_o describe_v yet_o the_o author_n be_v a_o visible_a man_n be_v all_o visible_a man_n name_n upon_o record_n be_v all_o the_o record_n that_o be_v in_o former_a time_n now_o to_o be_v produce_v here_o diverse_a of_o master_n fisher_n company_n called_z name_n name_n name_n d._n feat_o what_o will_v nothing_o content_v you_o but_o a_o buttery-booke_n you_o shall_v have_v a_o buttery-booke_n of_o name_n if_o you_o will_v stay_v a_o while_n here_o diverse_a of_o the_o auditor_n wish_v d._n feat_o not_o to_o proceed_v any_o further_a in_o the_o disputation_n unless_o master_n fisher_n will_v suffer_v he_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o all_o disputation_n first_o to_o conclude_v the_o first_o part_n of_o his_o copulative_a question_n and_o then_o the_o second_o yet_o doctor_n feat_o '_o desirous_a to_o bring_v the_o disputation_n to_o some_o better_a issue_n before_o he_o leave_v it_o be_v content_a to_o yield_v to_o m._n fisher_n unreasonable_a demand_n and_o conclude_v both_o part_n of_o the_o copulative_a question_n in_o one_o syllogism_n d._n feat_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o some_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a therefore_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n i'faith_o eternal_a who_o ever_o hear_v of_o faith_n eternal_a saint_n paul_n say_v that_o faith_n cease_v d._n feat_o you_o have_v a_o purpose_n m._n fisher_n to_o cavil_n you_o know_v my_o meaning_n well_o enough_o by_o the_o term_n perpetual_a to_o wit_n that_o christian_a faith_n which_o have_v continue_v from_o christ_n first_o publish_v it_o till_o this_o present_a and_o shall_v continue_v until_o his_o second_o come_v the_o church_n which_o hould_v this_o faith_n you_o believe_v shall_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n hold_v this_o perpetual_a faith_n therefore_o it_o have_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professer_n thereof_o may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n your_o argument_n be_v a_o fallacy_n call_v petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la d._n feat_o a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la causâ_fw-la or_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la be_v not_o petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la but_o such_o be_v my_o argument_n therefore_o my_o argument_n be_v not_o petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la be_v it_o not_o a_o sound_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o professer_n from_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o faith_n than_o as_o you_o do_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o faith_n from_o the_o visibility_n of_o professer_n visible_a professer_n argue_v not_o a_o right_a faith_n heretic_n mahumetan_n and_o gentile_n have_v visible_a professer_n of_o their_o impiety_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o hence_o follow_v that_o they_o have_v a_o right_a belief_n on_o the_o contrary_a we_o know_v by_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o church_n which_o maintain_v the_o true_a faith_n shall_v have_v always_o professer_n more_o or_o less_o visible_a m._n sweet_a you_o ought_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o church_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la for_o that_o be_v to_o the_o question_n and_o not_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la d._n feat_o shall_v you_o prescribe_v i_o my_o weapon_n be_v not_o a_o argument_n à _fw-fr priori_fw-la better_o than_o a_o argument_n à _fw-fr posteriori_fw-la this_o be_v as_o if_o in_o battle_n you_o shall_v enjoin_v your_o enemy_n to_o stab_v you_o with_o a_o knife_n and_o not_o with_o a_o sword_n or_o dagger_n i_o will_v use_v what_o weapon_n i_o list_v take_v you_o what_o buckler_n you_o can_v m._n fisher._n a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la be_v more_o demonstrative_a than_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la m._n alesbury_n heer_n m._n fisher_n show_v his_o academical_a learning_n in_o prefer_v a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la before_o that_o which_o proceed_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la be_v not_o a_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effect_n from_o the_o cause_n more_o excellent_a than_o of_o the_o cause_n by_o the_o effect_n from_o this_o place_n and_o so_o forward_o it_o be_v agree_v by_o the_o disputant_n that_o the_o argument_n and_o answer_n shall_v be_v take_v by_o one_o common_a writer_n and_o that_o the_o opponent_n dr._n feat_o shall_v set_v his_o hand_n to_o each_o several_a syllogism_n and_o the_o respondent_fw-la mr._n fisher_n to_o his_o several_a answer_n dr._n feat_o that_o church_n which_o be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v pretend_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o be_v be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o professor_n thereof_o may_v be_v produce_v and_o show_v but_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o as_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v pretend_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o be_v therefore_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o their_o name_n may_v be_v produce_v m._n fisher._n i_o deny_v the_o minor_n d._n feat_o that_o church_n probatur_fw-la who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a and_o unchanged_a be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_n church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o the_o popish_a church_n be_v pretend_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o be_v but_o the_o
one_o thing_n and_o you_o prove_v another_o the_o question_n be_v of_o the_o visibilitie_n of_o church_n but_o your_o argument_n be_v of_o the_o eternity_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o this_o thiug_n ad_fw-la adag_n choun_n ego_fw-la respondeo_fw-la de_fw-la allijs_fw-la tu_fw-la disputas_fw-la de_fw-la cepis_fw-la m._n fisher_n answer_v of_o garlic_n &_o you_o speak_v of_o onion_n for_o this_o unsavoury_a exception_n m._n sweet_a be_v sauce_v in_o the_o conference_n where_o it_o be_v prove_v against_o he_o that_o to_o prove_v a_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v a_o direct_a &_o natural_a and_o not_o a_o diversive_a proof_n my_o argument_n stand_v thus_o the_o true_a primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n have_v have_v must_v and_o shall_v have_v always_o visible_a professor_n thereof_o but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v the_o true_a primitive_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n therefore_o the_o protestant_a faith_n have_v have_v and_o shall_v have_v always_o visible_a professor_n thereof_o the_o mayor_n be_v evident_a in_o scripture_n and_o confess_v on_o all_o hand_n the_o minor_a i_o offer_v to_o prove_v but_o the_o jesuit_n dare_v not_o stand_v to_o their_o denial_n the_o mayor_n and_o minor_n pass_v without_o control_n none_o but_o master_n fisher_n will_v have_v deny_v or_o distinguish_v upon_o the_o conclusion_n this_o argument_n i_o affirm_v not_o only_o direct_v to_o prove_v the_o conclusion_n deny_v but_o also_o most_o pertinent_a to_o the_o main_a scope_n of_o the_o question_n which_o be_v to_o find_v out_o the_o true_a church_n whereof_o there_o can_v be_v no_o sound_n and_o infallible_a proof_n but_o out_o of_o scripture_n and_o for_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n either_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o not_o if_o not_o what_o need_v we_o so_o much_o trouble_v ourselves_o with_o it_o if_o it_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n 16._o aliunde_fw-la scilicet_fw-la possunt_fw-la suadere_fw-la de_fw-la rebus_fw-la fidei_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la literis_fw-la fidei_fw-la can_v they_o otherwise_o persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n then_o out_o of_o the_o writ_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o humane_a story_n and_o record_n in_o all_o age_n they_o be_v not_o easy_o find_v and_o when_o we_o have_v find_v they_o we_o find_v they_o so_o defective_a so_o corrupt_v and_o deface_v and_o oftentimes_o so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o that_o they_o scarce_o beget_v humane_a faith_n subject_n to_o error_n and_o be_v they_o never_o so_o perfect_a as_o bellar._n confess_v they_o can_v not_o beget_v falsa_fw-la divine_a and_o infallible_a faith_n if_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v without_o knowledge_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o true_a church_n and_o no_o man_n can_v know_v that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o true_a church_n unless_o he_o can_v prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n the_o perpetual_a succession_n and_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n to_o which_o he_o adher_v as_o jesuit_n make_v their_o breakeneck_n climax_n or_o gradation_n what_o shall_v become_v of_o many_o million_o of_o christian_n in_o their_o own_o church_n who_o neither_o have_v time_n nor_o mean_n nor_o learning_n to_o search_v all_o record_n of_o antiquity_n can_v all_o lay_v papist_n produce_v writer_n in_o all_o age_n who_o maintain_v the_o present_a tridentine_a faith_n which_o none_o yet_o of_o the_o their_o learned_a clerk_n ever_o do_v or_o can_v yet_o they_o be_v little_o near_o for_o jew_n and_o paynim_n and_o it_o may_v be_v diverse_a sort_n of_o heretic_n can_v prove_v too_o many_o visible_a professor_n of_o their_o heresy_n and_o impiety_n in_o all_o age_n since_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n time_n and_o some_o before_o from_o visibility_n of_o professor_n no_o man_n can_v certain_o conclude_v truth_n of_o save_v doctrine_n conformable_a to_o scripture_n but_o from_o conformity_n of_o doctrine_n to_o the_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v by_o infallible_a consequence_n ground_v upon_o god_n promise_n to_o his_o church_n conclude_v perpetual_a visibility_n of_o professor_n more_o or_o less_o and_o therefore_o the_o course_n i_o take_v be_v not_o only_o the_o straight_a but_o the_o easy_a and_o only_a certain_a way_n to_o bring_v we_o to_o the_o true_a church_n which_o be_v the_o 15_o house_n of_o the_o live_a god_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n thus_o much_o for_o proof_n of_o my_o proof_n by_o syllogism_n i_o will_v now_o give_v you_o a_o account_n of_o my_o catalogue_n and_o show_v my_o inducement_n to_o my_o induction_n against_o which_o i_o hear_v by_o you_o it_o be_v except_v that_o in_o undertake_v it_o i_o leave_v the_o beat_a way_n and_o take_v a_o way_n by_o myself_o where_o i_o shall_v sure_o lose_v myself_o &_o never_o come_v to_o a_o end_n to_o this_o objection_n the_o civil_a law_n furnish_v i_o with_o a_o answer_n nemo_fw-la tenetur_fw-la divinare_fw-la no_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o prophesy_v beforehand_o especial_o of_o the_o success_n of_o another_o labour_n if_o leave_n be_v procure_v for_o a_o second_o meeting_n the_o golden_a thread_n of_o succession_n which_o i_o take_v hold_v of_o from_o christ_n bless_a hand_n and_o his_o apostle_n shall_v be_v draw_v down_o god_n will_v to_o late_a age_n even_o to_o luther_n time_n but_o what_o they_o mean_v by_o hold_v the_o beat_a way_n i_o can_v easy_o divine_v if_o they_o mean_v that_o i_o ought_v to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n by_o have_v recourse_n mere_o to_o the_o corrupt_a popish_a church_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i_o say_v that_o way_n perhaps_o beat_v by_o some_o yet_o seem_v to_o i_o a_o slippery_a &_o dirty_a way_n and_o i_o hope_v i_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v not_o adag_n aurum_n in_o stercore_fw-la quaerere_fw-la to_o seek_v the_o golden_a purity_n of_o faith_n amid_o the_o dung_n and_o dross_n of_o romish_a superstition_n and_o depravation_n in_o late_a age_n many_o of_o our_o worthy_n have_v show_v i_o a_o more_o excellent_a way_n quos_fw-la sequor_fw-la à _fw-la long_o et_fw-la vestigia_fw-la pronus_fw-la adoro_fw-la these_o be_v doctor_z abbot_z now_o my_o lord_n of_o canterbury_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o hill_n humphrey_n to_o campion_n his_o three_o reason_n doctor_n usher_n now_o lord_n of_o meth_n de_fw-fr successione_n ecclesiae_fw-la the_o history_n of_o the_o waldense_n fox_n act_n and_o monument_n crispin_n of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n morney_n mystery_n of_o iniquity_n with_o rivet_n defence_n thereof_o simon_n voious_a catalogue_n of_o doctor_n illiricus_fw-la witness_n of_o the_o truth_n wolsius_n his_o select_a reading_n lydius_n his_o waldensia_n and_o monster_n à _fw-fr vortleys_n noble_a discourse_n as_o those_o that_o travel_n by_o night_n through_o the_o orat._n hercynian_n forest_n when_o they_o be_v at_o a_o stand_n observe_v certain_a bird_n flee_v before_o they_o and_o by_o the_o brightness_n of_o their_o white_a feather_n shine_v in_o the_o dark_a guide_v their_o step_n and_o find_v out_o a_o way_n so_o in_o usher_v the_o witness_n of_o truth_n throughout_o all_o age_n when_o in_o the_o dark_a time_n my_o own_o observation_n shall_v fail_v i_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o by_o the_o bright_a wing_n of_o those_o auspicate_v bird_n that_o have_v fly_v before_o i_o i_o mean_v the_o light_n of_o their_o silver_n quill_n who_o have_v write_v of_o this_o subject_a to_o find_v out_o my_o way_n i_o have_v omit_v nothing_o that_o have_v be_v material_o except_v against_o the_o conference_n except_o a_o omission_n of_o the_o sâ—ate_n of_o the_o question_n which_o they_o say_v be_v not_o so_o perspicuous_o and_o dilucid_o deliver_v as_o they_o can_v wish_v that_o which_o be_v set_v down_o to_o this_o purpose_n in_o the_o entry_n into_o the_o conference_n they_o say_v be_v so_o brief_a that_o ben._n instar_fw-la fulguris_fw-la terret_fw-la magis_fw-la quam_fw-la illustrat_fw-la it_o be_v like_a lightning_n which_o rather_o scare_n than_o light_v the_o passenger_n in_o his_o way_n if_o this_o be_v a_o just_a exception_n yet_o it_o lie_v not_o against_o i_o who_o have_v the_o opponent_n part_v put_v upon_o i_o but_o against_o m._n fisher_n who_o be-spoke_a himself_o to_o be_v respondent_fw-la for_o by_o the_o order_n of_o all_o school_n it_o be_v the_o answerer_n and_o not_o the_o opponent_n task_n to_o state_n the_o question_n he_o that_o keep_v a_o fort_n in_o battle_n be_v to_o make_v his_o rampart_n and_o guard_v the_o wall_n with_o redout_n and_o outwork_n the_o assailant_n part_n be_v to_o lay_v well_o his_o battery_n and_o make_v breach_n where_o he_o can_v at_o the_o next_o desire_v meeting_n when_o d._n white_n or_o myself_o shall_v have_v supply_v the_o respondent_o place_n the_o question_n shall_v have_v be_v explicate_v to_o the_o full_a by_o the_o distinction_n &_o conclusion_n herein_o enclose_v but_o as_o that_o meeting_n by_o injurious_a
et_fw-la fideli_fw-la profana_fw-la et_fw-la perfidâ—_n facta_fw-la est_fw-la ita_fw-la quae_fw-la apostolis_n ecclesiam_fw-la docentibus_fw-la erant_fw-la inandita_fw-la ea_fw-la pòst_fw-la à _fw-la patribus_fw-la caepere_fw-la queri_fw-la ambigi_fw-la quae_fw-la priscis_fw-la 〈◊〉_d scrupulum_fw-la mâ—hebaâ—â—_n ea_fw-la probabilia_fw-la visa_fw-la sunt_fw-la 〈◊〉_d à _fw-la receâ—ioribus_fw-la scholasticis_fw-la et_fw-la canonistis_fw-la habebanturâ—â—ra_fw-la quae_fw-la illi_fw-la opinati_fw-la sunt_fw-la et_fw-la tennerunt_fw-la â—odie_fw-la 〈◊〉_d defendunt_fw-la pertinaciter_fw-la et_fw-la dissentientes_fw-la 〈◊〉_d first_o heathenish_a and_o than_o jewish_a rite_n and_o opinion_n steal_v in_o these_o be_v the_o seed_n of_o ill_a example_n and_o order_n or_o custom_n these_o at_o the_o first_o be_v small_a be_v not_o observe_v sometime_o they_o be_v spy_v and_o check_v afterward_o by_o degree_n they_o more_o and_o more_o increase_v then_o be_v they_o confirm_v and_o spread_v further_o till_o in_o the_o end_n the_o whole_a face_n of_o religion_n be_v eat_v out_o as_o it_o be_v with_o a_o canker_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 〈◊〉_d and_o faithful_a spouse_n become_v a_o profane_a and_o disloyal_a strumpet_n so_o those_o thing_n which_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n be_v unheard_a of_o after_o begin_v to_o be_v question_v and_o doubt_v by_o the_o father_n those_o thing_n which_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n make_v scruple_n of_o seem_v probable_a to_o some_o and_o be_v hold_v true_a by_o the_o late_a schoolman_n &_o canonist_n those_o thing_n which_o they_o hold_v but_o as_o opinion_n the_o papist_n at_o this_o day_n defend_v obstinate_o and_o condemn_v all_o that_o dissent_v from_o they_o just_o as_o velleius_n 2._o paterculus_n report_v of_o the_o roman_a state_n that_o degenerate_v from_o the_o ancient_a virtue_n and_o glory_n it_o fall_v maturè_fw-la à _fw-la rectis_fw-la in_o vitia_fw-la à _fw-la vitijs_fw-la in_o prana_fw-it prâ—uis_fw-la in_o praecipitia_fw-la from_o good_a to_o bad_a from_o bad_a to_o worse_o from_o worse_a to_o worst_a of_o all_o so_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o tract_n of_o time_n fall_v from_o certain_a truth_n to_o doubtful_a tenet_n from_o doubtful_a tenet_n 〈◊〉_d manifest_a error_n from_o manifest_a error_n at_o last_o to_o heresy_n where_o we_o now_o find_v they_o and_o there_o leave_v they_o because_o they_o be_v resolve_v there_o to_o stick_v the_o general_a conclusion_n the_o protestant_a church_n according_a to_o the_o distinction_n and_o assertion_n premise_v have_v be_v in_o all_o age_n in_o some_o degree_n visible_a thus_o much_o of_o the_o first_o question_n propound_v by_o the_o jesuite_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n in_o all_o age_n the_o second_o question_n touch_v the_o catalogue_n of_o name_n follow_v touch_v the_o name_n of_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n the_o second_o question_n whither_o visible_a protestant_n be_v to_o be_v name_v in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o good_a author_n to_o this_o question_n i_o answer_v as_o to_o the_o former_a by_o distinction_n assertion_n the_o first_o distinction_n visible_a protestant_n be_v either_o such_o as_o subscribe_v to_o the_o harmony_n of_o protestant_a confession_n in_o each_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o theological_a conclusion_n or_o such_o as_o have_v deliver_v either_o implicit_o or_o explicit_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d positive_o or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d by_o way_n of_o opposition_n some_o point_n or_o point_n of_o protestant_a doctrine_n especial_o if_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o they_o hold_v any_o doctrine_n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la repugnant_a to_o the_o protestant_n faith_n or_o different_a from_o they_o in_o any_o point_n of_o moment_n or_o very_o material_a much_o less_o fundamental_a in_o this_o question_n neither_o be_v it_o reasonable_a neither_o indeed_o do_v the_o jesuite_n demand_n that_o we_o shall_v prove_v visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n but_o in_o the_o late_a only_o his_o word_n be_v 11._o for_o avoid_v of_o all_o mistake_a and_o consequent_o needless_a and_o fruitless_a dispute_n m._n fisher_n in_o his_o question_n require_v first_o that_o name_n of_o man_n in_o all_o age_n be_v set_v down_o who_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v and_o his_o friend_n conceive_v to_o have_v be_v protestant_n second_o that_o those_o man_n who_o name_n they_o set_v down_o be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n to_o agree_v in_o hold_v some_o point_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o protestant_n differ_v from_o roman_a catholic_n three_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v or_o his_o friend_n will_v defend_v against_o m._n fisher_n that_o the_o same_o man_n hold_v no_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n different_a one_o from_o another_o and_o from_o the_o present_a protestant_a doctrine_n the_o second_o distinction_n the_o name_n of_o protestant_n be_v of_o two_o sort_n proper_a as_o bertram_z lollard_n dulcinus_n calvin_n beza_n jewel_n etc._n etc._n appellative_a as_o protestant_n gospeler_n reformer_n albingenses_n waldenses_n lionist_n piccard_n turlepin_n and_o general_o all_o such_o name_n as_o have_v either_o be_v assume_v by_o any_o society_n of_o protestant_n to_o distinguish_v themselves_o from_o other_o or_o cast_v upon_o they_o by_o way_n of_o reproach_n by_o their_o adversary_n who_o reproach_n they_o and_o we_o account_v their_o glory_n in_o this_o question_n although_o the_o jesuite_n seem_v to_o take_v name_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n yet_o he_o can_v be_v so_o gross_o ignorant_a as_o not_o to_o know_v that_o it_o be_v abundant_o sufficient_a for_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n even_o à _fw-fr posteriori_fw-la to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n the_o appellative_a name_n of_o protestant_n in_o all_o age_n no_o man_n doubt_v that_o it_o be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o israel_n in_o elias_n time_n to_o produce_v that_o sacred_a record_n of_o seven_o thousand_o that_o never_o bow_v their_o knee_n to_o baal_n albeit_o neither_o do_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n there_o set_v down_o neither_o can_v any_o man_n live_v now_o tell_v what_o be_v the_o proper_a name_n of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o no_o geographer_n will_v ever_o make_v question_n but_o that_o there_o be_v now_o many_o visible_a church_n of_o christian_n in_o africa_n and_o diverse_a part_n of_o asia_n under_o the_o turk_n and_o tartar_n know_v by_o the_o name_n of_o abyssens_n maronit_n cophti_n armenian_n georgian_o or_o the_o like_a and_o yet_o neither_o can_v the_o geographer_n themselves_o peradventure_o nor_o you_o nor_o i_o present_o give_v the_o proper_a name_n of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v but_o one_o greek_a christian_n sometime_o student_n in_o oxford_n metrophanes_n critopulus_fw-la the_o three_o distinction_n these_o word_n protestant_n be_v to_o be_v name_v may_v admit_v of_o a_o double_a construction_n either_o that_o name_n ought_v to_o be_v produce_v and_o that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o produce_v they_o to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o our_o church_n as_o if_o without_o such_o produce_v the_o protestant_n cause_n shall_v any_o way_n suffer_v or_o receive_v any_o prejudice_n or_o that_o such_o name_n may_v be_v produce_v and_o that_o there_o be_v such_o record_n yet_o extant_a out_o of_o which_o we_o be_v able_a to_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o protestant_a professor_n in_o this_o question_n the_o jesuite_n hold_v that_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n be_v to_o be_v produce_v that_o be_v aught_o to_o be_v produce_v and_o must_v of_o necessity_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o our_o church_n but_o he_o deny_v it_o in_o the_o second_o sense_n that_o be_v that_o such_o name_n can_v be_v produce_v on_o the_o contrary_a my_o tenet_n be_v that_o visible_a protestant_n be_v to_o be_v name_v in_o the_o second_o sense_n that_o be_v be_v â—minable_a but_o not_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n though_o we_o need_v not_o make_v any_o such_o catalogue_n yet_o ex_fw-la superabundanti_fw-la i_o refuse_v not_o to_o do_v it_o our_o cause_n be_v so_o rich_o furnish_v that_o we_o can_v do_v it_o though_o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o do_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n partly_o allege_v in_o the_o conference_n partly_o confirm_v and_o enlarge_v in_o the_o defence_n thereof_o the_o four_o distnction_n good_a author_n be_v of_o two_o sort_n of_o the_o first_o rank_n and_o such_o be_v classicke_a theological_a or_o historical_a author_n against_o which_o neither_o papist_n nor_o protestant_n much_o except_v but_o both_o account_v they_o of_o great_a worth_n and_o credit_n of_o the_o second_o rank_n and_o such_o be_v those_o author_n who_o though_o they_o be_v not_o of_o any_o singular_a or_o eminent_a note_n yet_o they_o may_v be_v term_v good_a according_a to_o the_o age_n in_o which_o they_o live_v which_o afford_v no_o better_o in_o this_o question_n i_o restrain_v not_o good_a author_n to_o those_o of_o the_o first_o rank_n only_o but_o admit_v also_o of_o those_o
lineis_fw-la materiam_fw-la clausimus_fw-la inter_fw-la quas_fw-la congredimur_fw-la according_a to_o which_o prescription_n d._n feat_o as_o soon_o as_o he_o receive_v the_o question_n from_o m._n fisher_n return_v it_o in_o another_o paper_n in_o which_o he_o brief_o state_v it_o the_o five_o rule_n be_v 1._o saint_n austin_n to_o observe_v logic_n form_n in_o disputation_n quid_fw-la tu_fw-la disputas_fw-la si_fw-la disputare_fw-la non_fw-la noveris_fw-la quid_fw-la est_fw-la aliud_fw-la dialectica_fw-la quam_fw-la peritia_fw-la disputandi_fw-la nun_n etiam_fw-la dialectice_n christ_n we_o come_v judaeis_n egit_fw-la why_o do_v thou_o offer_v to_o dispute_v if_o thou_o know_v not_o how_o to_o dispute_v what_o be_v logic_n but_o the_o art_n of_o dispute_v do_v not_o christ_n dispute_v logical_o with_o the_o jew_n and_o a_o little_a after_o dialecticam_fw-la nunquam_fw-la doctrina_fw-la christiana_n forâ—â—dat_fw-la the_o christian_a doctrine_n never_o fear_v logic_n according_a to_o which_o prescription_n d._n feat_o desire_v that_o both_o the_o opponent_n &_o respondent_fw-la shall_v be_v tie_v to_o logic_n form_n for_o nimble_a wit_n like_o proteus_n will_v turn_v themselves_o into_o all_o form_n and_o unless_o they_o be_v hold_v fast_o and_o in_o a_o sort_n force_v and_o wring_v with_o the_o syllogistico_fw-la knot_n of_o logical_a argument_n they_o will_v never_o be_v bring_v to_o agnize_v the_o truth_n aristotle_n speak_v of_o certain_a polymathia_fw-la organa_n mechanica_fw-la artificial_a frames_n use_v in_o greece_n quae_fw-la teneros_fw-la infantium_fw-la artus_fw-la coercerent_fw-la ne_fw-la in_o prava_fw-la deflecterentur_fw-la sed_fw-la concinna_fw-la illorum_fw-la forma_fw-la nihil_fw-la foedum_fw-la aspectu_fw-la aut_fw-la distortum_fw-la praeferret_fw-la which_o frame_v serve_v to_o keep_v straight_o the_o limb_n and_o joint_n of_o the_o infant_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o go_v away_o but_o keep_v due_a proportion_n and_o a_o comely_a shape_n such_o artificial_a instrument_n be_v logic_n form_n they_o serve_v to_o make_v we_o to_o walk_v straight_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d neither_o tread_v inward_a nor_o outward_a in_o our_o discourse_n to_o dispute_v without_o logic_n be_v to_o rule_v without_o a_o ruler_n or_o draw_v a_o circle_n without_o a_o compass_n or_o steer_v without_o a_o card._n in_o which_o respect_n although_o m._n fisher_n be_v very_o unwilling_a to_o be_v bind_v to_o his_o logical_a behaviour_n yet_o d._n feat_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o require_v it_o of_o he_o because_o he_o bind_v himself_o to_o it_o propose_v all_o his_o argument_n in_o logic_n form_n and_o dispose_v they_o in_o logic_n method_n premise_v argument_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la before_o his_o argument_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la and_o syllogism_n before_o his_o induction_n beginning_n at_o the_o top_n in_o the_o first_o age_n and_o descend_v to_o the_o late_a according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o time_n nature_n &_o dignity_n the_o most_o cunning_a workman_n that_o ever_o wrought_v with_o the_o tool_n of_o natural_a wit_n force_v all_o argument_n into_o two_o kind_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o reprehensorie_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o demonstrative_a elencticall_a or_o reprehensive_a drive_v at_o a_o adversary_n dicticall_a or_o demonstrative_a aim_n at_o a_o thesis_n or_o position_n of_o our_o own_o the_o former_a sort_n serve_v to_o beat_v down_o a_o enemy_n weapon_n on_o his_o own_o head_n the_o late_a to_o make_v good_a our_o own_o ground_n the_o former_a may_v not_o unfit_o be_v call_v 〈◊〉_d argument_n the_o late_a simple_o and_o direct_o prove_v d._n feat_o in_o this_o disputation_n make_v use_v of_o both_o first_o of_o elencticall_a argument_n to_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o his_o adversary_n and_o then_o of_o dicticall_a to_o show_v the_o strength_n of_o the_o protestant_n cause_n and_o the_o visibility_n of_o their_o church_n in_o all_o age_n the_o first_o argument_n of_o the_o former_a sort_n be_v couch_v in_o these_o word_n although_o divine_a and_o infallible_a faith_n be_v not_o build_v upon_o deduction_n out_o of_o humane_a history_n which_o may_v be_v thus_o propound_v at_o large_a whosoever_o propound_v such_o a_o question_n in_o which_o he_o require_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o mere_a humane_a testimony_n and_o record_n betray_v his_o gross_a ignorance_n in_o divinity_n but_o m._n fisher_n propound_v a_o question_n in_o which_o he_o require_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o mere_a humane_a history_n and_o record_n therefore_o m._n fisher_n betray_v his_o gross_a ignorance_n in_o divinity_n the_o mayor_n or_o first_o proposition_n be_v prove_v by_o 25_o bellarmine_n confession_n historiae_fw-la humanae_fw-la faciunt_fw-la tantùm_fw-la fidem_fw-la humanam_fw-la cui_fw-la subesse_fw-la potest_fw-la falsum_fw-la humane_a story_n and_o record_n beget_v only_o a_o humane_a faith_n or_o rather_o credulity_n subject_n to_o error_n and_o it_o may_v be_v more_o strong_o confirm_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o tertullian_n 16._o aliunde_fw-la suadere_fw-la possunt_fw-la de_fw-la rebus_fw-la fidei_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la literis_fw-la fidei_fw-la can_v they_o otherwise_o persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n than_o out_o of_o the_o writ_n of_o faith_n and_o saint_n augustine_n &c_n solis_fw-la canonicis_fw-la debeo_fw-la absolutum_fw-la sine_fw-la ulla_fw-la recusatione_fw-la consensum_fw-la i_o owe_v absolute_a consent_n without_o any_o refusal_n only_o to_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o effect_n can_v exceed_v the_o cause_n nor_o the_o conclusion_n both_o the_o premise_n and_o therefore_o we_o can_v build_v a_o divine_a and_o infallible_a conclusion_n such_o be_v all_o conclusion_n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la upon_o mere_a humane_a testimony_n which_o be_v not_o of_o infallible_a truth_n all_o other_o humane_a history_n come_v short_a of_o the_o apocryphal_a book_n of_o scripture_n for_o you_o rank_v they_o with_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o we_o give_v they_o the_o alij_fw-la next_o place_n to_o they_o yet_o the_o testimony_n out_o of_o the_o apocryphal_a of_o scripture_n may_v not_o be_v allege_v to_o ground_v any_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n upon_o they_o as_o symb._n ruffinus_n affirm_v in_o express_a word_n quae_fw-la omniae_fw-la legi_fw-la quidem_fw-la in_o ecclesiis_fw-la volucrunt_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la proferri_fw-la ad_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la ex_fw-la his_fw-la fidei_fw-la confirmandam_fw-la all_o which_o book_n they_o will_v have_v read_v in_o the_o church_n but_o not_o be_v produce_v to_o establish_v faith_n out_o of_o they_o the_o minor_a or_o assumption_n be_v thus_o prove_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n evident_o ground_v as_o be_v confess_v on_o christ_n promise_n in_o scripture_n but_o m._n fisher_n require_v in_o his_o question_n the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o mere_a humane_a author_n and_o story_n express_o exclude_v scripture_n therefore_o m._n fisher_n propound_v a_o question_n in_o which_o he_o require_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o mere_a humane_a history_n and_o record_n the_o second_o elencticall_a or_o reprehensive_a argument_n be_v couch_v in_o these_o word_n although_o this_o question_n be_v ground_v on_o uncertain_a and_o false_a sâ—pposals_n etc._n etc._n which_o may_v be_v thus_o propound_v at_o large_a that_o question_n which_o be_v ground_v upon_o a_o evident_a false_a supposal_n need_v not_o to_o be_v discuss_v but_o ought_v rather_o to_o be_v explode_v but_o m._n fisher_n question_n be_v ground_v upon_o a_o evident_a false_a supposal_n therefore_o m._n fisher_n question_v need_v not_o to_o be_v discuss_v but_o ought_v rather_o to_o be_v explode_v the_o mayor_n or_o first_o proposition_n be_v evident_a in_o itself_o for_o to_o such_o a_o question_n there_o need_v no_o other_o answer_n to_o be_v give_v but_o simple_o to_o deny_v the_o supposal_n the_o minor_a or_o second_o proposition_n be_v thus_o prove_v first_o if_o the_o name_n of_o all_o professor_n be_v not_o nor_o ever_o be_v upon_o record_n than_o m._n fisher_n supposal_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o a_o protestant_a church_n can_v not_o have_v be_v visible_a in_o former_a age_n unless_o the_o name_n of_o all_o visible_a professor_n can_v now_o be_v show_v but_o all_o visible_a professor_n name_n be_v not_o nor_o ever_o be_v on_o record_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a and_o confess_v by_o a._n c._n p._n 33._o therefore_o master_n fisher_n supposal_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o a_o protestant_a church_n can_v not_o have_v be_v visible_a in_o former_a age_n unless_o the_o name_n of_o those_o visible_a professor_n can_v be_v show_v second_o if_o all_o ancient_a record_n be_v not_o now_o extant_a than_o it_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n to_o say_v the_o name_n of_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n can_v now_o be_v show_v upon_o record_n therefore_o they_o be_v never_o upon_o record_n but_o all_o ancient_a record_n be_v not_o now_o extant_a therefore_o it_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n to_o say_v that_o because_o the_o name_n of_o
here_o tell_v we_o of_o a_o decree_n make_v at_o geneva_n you_o know_v not_o when_o and_o a_o tale_n of_o a_o minister_n you_o know_v not_o who_o and_o for_o proof_n be_v allege_v johannes_n cretensis_n and_o gulielmus_fw-la nullatenensis_fw-la or_o if_o you_o will_v episcopus_fw-la chalcedonensis_n both_o these_o if_o i_o may_v take_v your_o word_n for_o i_o hold_v neither_o of_o they_o worth_n look_v into_o relate_v the_o story_n abovementioned_n and_o that_o agreeable_a to_o their_o name_n and_o title_n fide_fw-la graeca_n a_o pretty_a pageant_n a_o jesuite_n cite_v a_o jesuite_n against_o geneva_n and_o a_o romish_a priest_n a_o new_a no-bishop_n of_o chalcedon_n against_o a_o english_a minister_n aruspex_fw-la aruspicem_fw-la one_o fortune-tellor_a gipsy_n quote_v another_o for_o the_o truth_n of_o his_o art_n simia_fw-la give_v his_o word_n for_o pseudolus_n belial_n cite_v belzebub_n the_o god_n of_o fly_n for_o a_o flyblown_a scoff_a jergon_n at_o geneva_n there_o be_v a_o decree_n make_v define_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o lie_v for_o the_o credit_n and_o honour_n of_o the_o gospel_n where_o be_v this_o decree_n or_o canon_n make_v in_o the_o senate_n or_o in_o the_o consistory_n by_o the_o syndicks_n or_o by_o the_o presbytery_n when_o be_v it_o make_v what_o date_n bear_v it_o who_o draw_v it_o who_o engross_v it_o upon_o what_o occasion_n be_v it_o make_v who_o subscribe_v to_o it_o i_o cry_v you_o mercy_n now_o i_o remember_v when_o it_o be_v make_v it_o be_v make_v the_o very_a year_n in_o which_o beza_n recant_v his_o religion_n and_o immediate_o thereupon_o all_o geneva_n reconcile_v itself_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o at_o that_o time_n the_o pope_n holiness_n to_o assure_v the_o genevians_n of_o his_o unfeigned_a love_n and_o friendship_n to_o their_o city_n send_v they_o a_o copy_n of_o the_o great_a charter_n of_o constantine_n donation_n and_o in_o the_o backside_n of_o it_o this_o decree_n be_v write_v at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o julian_n period_n a_o 764._o ante_fw-la orbem_fw-la conditum_fw-la yea_o but_o some_o papist_n will_v say_v if_o this_o decree_n be_v so_o ridiculous_a a_o forgery_n father_n eudaemon_n johannes_n will_v never_o have_v report_v it_o as_o he_o do_v in_o sober_a sadness_n 12_o hereunto_o i_o answer_v first_o out_o of_o saint_n paul_n that_o the_o cretan_n be_v not_o always_o the_o honest_a man_n and_o father_n eudaemon_n do_v not_o deny_v nor_o belie_v his_o country_n second_o i_o answer_v out_o of_o the_o act_n of_o our_o court_n and_o the_o proceed_n against_o garnet_n that_o this_o eudaemon_n who_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o justify_v that_o powder-traitor_n against_o most_o uncontrollable_a evidence_n and_o the_o public_a justice_n of_o a_o whole_a kingdom_n be_v none_o of_o the_o honest_a among_o the_o cretan_n this_o be_v that_o monstrum_fw-la hominis_fw-la monstrum_fw-la nominis_fw-la andraeas_n johannes_n sidâ—nius_n cretensis_n this_o be_v the_o canonizer_n of_o garnet_n and_o his_o straw_n father_n garnet_n forsooth_o at_o his_o execution_n si_fw-la credere_fw-la fas_fw-la est_fw-la let_v fall_v some_o drop_n of_o blood_n upon_o a_o straw_n which_o miraculous_o fashion_v themselves_o into_o the_o shape_n and_o visage_n of_o that_o powder-martyr_n which_o be_v as_o true_a and_o altogether_o as_o likely_a as_o that_o the_o atomy_n or_o mote_n such_o as_o we_o now_o see_v in_o the_o sun_n by_o a_o casual_a concourse_n make_v the_o whole_a world_n according_a to_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o ancient_a epicure_n but_o the_o best_a jest_n be_v that_o as_o garnets_n tongue_n double_v and_o equivocate_v while_o he_o be_v alive_a so_o his_o face_n equivocate_v and_o double_v after_o his_o death_n as_o in_o plautus_n his_o amphitryo_n socis_n beget_v another_o socia_n and_o blepharo_fw-la another_o blepharo_fw-la and_o the_o goblet_n another_o goblet_n so_o like_v that_o they_o can_v not_o be_v distinguish_v in_o like_a manner_n face_n beget_v face_n and_o miracle_n beget_v miracle_n and_o straw_n beget_v straw_n represent_v garnet_n feature_n so_o like_v that_o without_o miracle_n they_o can_v not_o be_v distinguish_v thought_n be_v free_a my_o conceit_n be_v that_o father_n eudaemon_n read_v saint_n gregorie_n exposition_n on_o those_o word_n of_o job_n boves_fw-la arabant_fw-la &_o asini_fw-la pascebant_fw-la iuxta_fw-la the_o ox_n plough_v and_o the_o ass_n feed_v by_o they_o and_o learning_n that_o by_o ox_n be_v allegorical_o mean_v the_o clergy_n and_o by_o ass_n the_o laity_n think_v he_o may_v well_o defend_v this_o strawn_a miracle_n because_o straw_n be_v fit_a fodder_n for_o ass_n for_o which_o his_o apology_n of_o garnet_n and_o his_o straw_n as_o also_o his_o witty_a invention_n of_o a_o decree_n publish_v at_o geneva_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o a_o lie_v tend_v to_o the_o honour_n and_o credit_n of_o the_o gospel_n he_o merit_v to_o have_v the_o first_o syllable_n of_o his_o name_n to_o be_v cut_v off_o as_o jeconias_n be_v call_v by_o the_o prophet_n conias_n so_o eudaemon_n shall_v be_v call_v from_o henceforth_o john_n daemon_n johannes_n and_o for_o the_o bishop_n of_o chalcedon_n i_o wish_v he_o no_o other_o punishment_n for_o his_o slander_n of_o the_o english_a minister_n but_o to_o be_v send_v to_o reside_v on_o his_o diocese_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v they_o and_o come_v to_o you_o m._n fisher._n master_n fisher_n preface_n i_o for_o my_o part_n will_v not_o promise_v to_o have_v perfect_o remember_v and_o set_v down_o every_o word_n that_o pass_v in_o this_o conference_n especial_o speak_v by_o bystander_n nor_o to_o have_v strict_o observe_v the_o precise_a order_n of_o every_o passage_n but_o for_o the_o substance_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o matter_n that_o i_o do_v relate_v i_o assure_v that_o there_o shall_v not_o be_v find_v any_o falsehood_n unless_o it_o be_v in_o some_o of_o those_o parcel_n which_o i_o do_v not_o relate_v of_o myself_o but_o out_o of_o the_o protestant_a relator_n who_o relation_n ordinary_o as_o i_o do_v not_o contradict_v unless_o it_o be_v upon_o necessary_a occasion_n so_o i_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o approve_v but_o simple_o relate_v what_o it_o say_v i_o will_v leave_v be_v to_o other_o to_o judge_v what_o they_o think_v fit_a of_o it_o only_o this_o i_o will_v say_v that_o every_o one_o may_v believe_v it_o so_o far_o as_o it_o relate_v any_o thing_n which_o may_v advantage_v the_o catholic_a defendant_n and_o their_o cause_n or_o disaduanlage_v the_o protestant_a disputant_n and_o their_o cause_n for_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o no_o man_n will_v lie_v for_o the_o advantage_n of_o his_o adversary_n or_o his_o cause_n nor_o his_o own_o disadvantage_n but_o in_o such_o thing_n as_o it_o have_v set_v down_o advantageous_o for_o the_o protestant_a disputant_n or_o his_o cause_n there_o be_v just_a reason_n to_o suspect_v it_o inregard_n that_o i_o be_o tell_v that_o doctor_n feat_o himself_o who_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o author_n have_v confess_v that_o more_o be_v say_v in_o the_o relation_n than_o be_v say_v in_o the_o conference_n itself_o and_o i_o be_o sure_a something_o be_v leave_v out_o which_o be_v say_v and_o something_o mis-reported_n this_o be_v premise_v by_o way_n of_o preface_n i_o will_v begin_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o answer_n in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o preface_n you_o arrogate_v truth_n to_o your_o own_o relation_n and_o derogate_v from_o the_o protestant_n to_o drive_v forward_o your_o own_o bark_n fraught_v with_o untruth_n you_o fill_v your_o sail_n with_o the_o breath_n of_o your_o own_o praise_n assure_v we_o that_o for_o the_o substance_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o matter_n that_o you_o relate_v there_o shall_v not_o be_v find_v any_o falsehood_n how_o will_v you_o assure_v this_o when_o so_o many_o person_n of_o quality_n present_a at_o the_o conference_n and_o attentive_a to_o it_o in_o diverse_a particular_n testify_v the_o contrary_a under_o their_o hand_n you_o be_v one_o of_o the_o principal_a gamester_n master_n fisher_n and_o your_o credit_n if_o not_o your_o religion_n lie_v at_o stake_n be_v not_o your_o own_o judge_n but_o let_v the_o stander_n by_o determine_v whether_o you_o or_o the_o protestant_a relator_n have_v play_v fair_a and_o above_o board_n for_o omission_n in_o regard_n whereof_o you_o tax_v the_o protestant_a relation_n they_o be_v in_o your_o favour_n and_o not_o to_o your_o prejudice_n but_o because_o you_o can_v not_o see_v when_o you_o be_v well_o and_o complain_v without_o a_o cause_n they_o be_v now_o supply_v make_v your_o best_a of_o they_o for_o addition_n or_o misreport_n to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o any_o the_o witness_n express_o clear_v the_o protestant_a relatour_n from_o any_o such_o imputation_n and_o if_o i_o shall_v fasten_v any_o such_o upon_o he_o as_o you_o covert_o will_v insinuate_v essem_fw-la similis_fw-la vestri_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la mendax_fw-la if_o i_o be_v the_o author_n of_o that_o
relation_n be_v it_o likely_a that_o i_o will_v discredit_v it_o myself_o this_o be_v mess_n meas_fw-la urere_fw-la to_o blur_v with_o my_o pencil_n a_o true_a picture_n draw_v by_o myself_o itaque_fw-la hîc_fw-la non_fw-la modò_fw-la crimen_fw-la non_fw-la haeret_fw-la sed_fw-la nec_fw-la jesuit_n ae_z cohaeret_fw-la oratió_n as_o you_o contradict_v the_o truth_n so_o you_o contradict_v yourself_o to_o conclude_v therefore_o my_o answer_n to_o your_o preface_n and_o give_v the_o reader_n some_o light_n to_o clear_v his_o judgement_n in_o censure_v both_o relation_n the_o civil_a law_n teach_v to_o suppose_v every_o man_n honest_a unless_o the_o contrary_n be_v prove_v and_o therefore_o the_o protestant_a relator_n may_v just_o challenge_v thy_o good_a opinion_n unless_o thou_o find_v some_o proof_n to_o the_o contrary_n on_o the_o contrary_a qui_fw-la semel_fw-la probatur_fw-la esse_fw-la malus_fw-la semper_fw-la supponitur_fw-la esse_fw-la malus_fw-la in_o eodem_fw-la genere_fw-la mali_fw-la whosoever_o have_v be_v once_o convince_v of_o a_o crime_n wheresoever_o afterward_o he_o come_v in_o question_n be_v presume_v always_o to_o be_v faulty_a in_o the_o same_o kind_n but_o you_o master_n fisher_n be_v convince_v to_o your_o face_n by_o two_o witness_n to_o be_v a_o false_a relator_n and_o setter_n down_o of_o some_o of_o my_o answer_n in_o a_o former_a conference_n neither_o do_v you_o or_o can_v you_o deny_v it_o only_o you_o blanch_v it_o over_o with_o protest_v that_o you_o do_v it_o not_o witting_o or_o willing_o from_o which_o start_v hole_n you_o be_v drive_v by_o doctor_n goad_n and_o you_o have_v here_o give_v i_o a_o staff_n to_o beat_v you_o out_o of_o it_o for_o you_o say_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o no_o man_n will_v lie_v but_o for_o his_o own_o advantage_n but_o you_o lie_v as_o be_v confess_v in_o set_v down_o and_o relate_v some_o of_o my_o answer_n and_o therefore_o by_o your_o own_o argument_n you_o must_v needs_o do_v it_o for_o your_o own_o advantage_n and_o consequent_o both_o witting_o and_o willing_o a_o table_n of_o the_o principal_a matter_n contain_v in_o m._n fisher_n answer_n master_n fisher_n before_o you_o embark_v yourself_o into_o the_o main_a business_n to_o answer_v the_o three_o chapter_n of_o the_o protestant_a relation_n i_o expect_v that_o for_o the_o better_a direction_n of_o the_o reader_n you_o will_v have_v some_o way_n analyze_v your_o prolix_a answer_n and_o set_v before_o he_o a_o synopsis_n or_o table_n of_o the_o specialty_n comprise_v be_v this_o your_o treatise_n which_o thing_n because_o you_o have_v omit_v i_o will_v do_v you_o the_o courtesy_n to_o perform_v it_o for_o you_o the_o principal_a matter_n contain_v in_o the_o answer_n may_v be_v reduce_v to_o five_o head_n 1._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o untruth_n 2._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o contradiction_n 3._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o idle_a observation_n and_o exception_n 4._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o impertinence_n or_o maled_n propose_v 5._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o vain_a repetition_n of_o the_o first_o head_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o untruth_n read_v title-page_n a_o answer_v write_v by_o a._n c._n untruth_n for_o m._n fisher_n be_v know_v to_o be_v the_o author_n of_o it_o preface_n page_n 2._o d._n feat_o who_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o author_n have_v confess_v that_o more_o be_v say_v in_o the_o relation_n than_o be_v say_v in_o the_o conference_n itself_o untruth_n for_o d._n feat_o be_v never_o question_v about_o that_o relation_n nor_o say_v he_o any_o such_o thing_n page_n 15._o then_o d._n feat_o begin_v to_o argue_v in_o this_o place_n and_o not_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o disputation_n where_o the_o protestant_a relator_n place_v it_o do_v say_v i_o wish_v 〈◊〉_d i_o warn_v i_o command_v i_o conjure_v you_o to_o answer_v true_o â—d_a sincere_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n and_o as_o you_o will_v answer_v it_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n a_o double_a untruth_n first_o the_o word_n i_o warn_v i_o command_v be_v never_o speak_v by_o i_o second_o those_o word_n as_o you_o will_v answer_v it_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v speak_v in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o disputation_n and_o not_o in_o the_o beginning_n where_o you_o place_v it_o see_v the_o attestation_n to_o the_o conference_n in_o the_o same_o page_n m._n sweet_a propound_v these_o condition_n to_o be_v observe_v first_o that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n shall_v be_v forbear_v second_o that_o â—â—thing_n shall_v be_v speak_v or_o hear_v but_o to_o the_o purpose_n untruth_n the_o second_o condition_n be_v never_o propound_v by_o m._n sweet_a which_o i_o thus_o prove_v both_o relation_n agree_v that_o m._n sweet_a propound_v but_o two_o condition_n in_o all_o likewise_o both_o agree_v that_o the_o first_o condition_n be_v that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n shall_v be_v avoid_v there_o remain_v then_o but_o one_o condition_n but_o all_o the_o witness_n who_o have_v subscribe_v to_o the_o conference_n do_v upon_o their_o certain_a knowledge_n remember_v that_o m._n sweet_a propound_v such_o a_o condition_n that_o none_o but_o disputant_n shall_v speak_v and_o therefore_o this_o second_o condition_n add_v by_o m._n fisher_n that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v speak_v or_o hear_v but_o to_o the_o purpose_n be_v feign_v and_o supposititious_a page_n 16._o m._n sweet_a do_v not_o say_v as_o the_o relator_n report_v they_o be_v scholastical_a point_n not_o fundamental_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o syllogism_n then_o make_v as_o the_o relator_n annex_v double_a untruth_n we_o have_v as_o many_o witness_n both_o of_o that_o answer_n of_o m._n sweet_a and_o d._n whites_n syllogism_n make_v by_o way_n of_o reply_n as_o there_o be_v word_n in_o both_o in_o the_o same_o page_n in_o the_o mean_a while_n name_v but_o one_o father_n one_o writter_n of_o note_n who_o hold_v the_o particular_n abovenamed_n for_o 500_o year_n after_o christ._n to_o which_o instant_a demand_n of_o d._n feat_o say_v the_o relator_n nothing_o be_v answer_v but_o neither_o be_v this_o say_v neither_o be_v it_o needful_a to_o answer_v untruth_n for_o the_o witness_n to_o the_o conference_n perfect_o remember_v &_o direct_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v say_v beside_o this_o i_o speak_v out_o of_o my_o paper_n which_o i_o have_v yet_o to_o show_v and_o no_o one_o thing_n more_o move_v m._n bug_n and_o some_o other_o in_o the_o conference_n than_o this_o that_o for_o all_o the_o jesuit_n lay_v claim_n to_o all_o age_n &_o boast_v that_o all_o the_o world_n be_v of_o the_o popish_a religion_n before_o luther_n yet_o m._n fisher_n can_v not_o name_v so_o much_o as_o one_o man_n in_o the_o world_n who_o for_o 500_o year_n after_o christ_n hold_v the_o tridentine_a faith_n ingenerall_n or_o those_o point_n of_o popery_n mention_v in_o the_o conference_n in_o special_a neither_o do_v he_o yet_o name_v one_o in_o his_o print_a answer_n nay_o he_o dare_v not_o so_o much_o as_o name_v the_o point_n for_o fear_n of_o give_v scandal_n to_o his_o own_o side_n page_n 20._o these_o formal_a word_n which_o he_o report_v m._n fisher_n to_o have_v say_v viz._n a_o proof_n à _fw-la postetiori_fw-la be_v more_o demonstrative_a then_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la m._n fishér_n do_v not_o speak_v untruth_n for_o first_o the_o witness_n to_o the_o conference_n remember_v perfect_o that_o he_o say_v so_o second_o m._n alesburie_n the_o writer_n of_o the_o conference_n set_v down_o these_o formal_a word_n which_o be_v yet_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o seal_a schedule_n three_o m._n alesburie_n immediate_o reply_v upon_o m._n fisher_n word_n here_o m._n fisher_n show_v his_o academical_a learning_n in_o prefer_v a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la before_o that_o which_o proceed_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la these_o word_n of_o m._n alesburie_n be_v set_v down_o in_o the_o protestant_n relation_n of_o the_o conference_n and_o m._n fisher_n do_v not_o deny_v they_o and_o therefore_o he_o can_v deny_v those_o word_n which_o be_v the_o immediate_a occasion_n of_o that_o reply_n page_n 31._o but_o d._n feat_o do_v not_o say_v all_o this_o untruth_n for_o immediate_o upon_o those_o word_n of_o i_o that_o the_o inference_n of_o the_o effect_n by_o the_o cause_n be_v not_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la etc._n etc._n d._n goad_n interpose_v say_v m._n sweet_a you_o one_o learn_v better_a logic_n in_o cambridge_n than_o you_o show_v now_o these_o word_n of_o d._n goad_n set_v down_o in_o the_o protestant_n relation_n m._n fisher_n here_o deny_v not_o and_o therefore_o he_o can_v reasonable_o deny_v the_o former_a word_n of_o i_o which_o occasion_v they_o remember_v m._n fisher_n better_o your_o lesson_n mandecem_fw-la oportet_fw-la etc._n etc._n page_n 32._o but_o d._n white_n do_v not_o speak_v thus_o neither_o do_v he_o in_o all_o
to_o be_v reject_v upon_o any_o pretence_n not_o long_o after_o it_o be_v not_o authentical_a for_o 1592._o clemens_n the_o eight_o correct_v it_o in_o many_o hundred_o place_n now_o go_v and_o upbraid_v we_o with_o our_o late_a revised_a translation_n but_o see_v withal_o that_o you_o dispense_v with_o the_o pope_n that_o he_o may_v dispense_v with_o you_o one_o year_n the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v maintain_v in_o book_n allow_v by_o your_o church_n another_o year_n it_o be_v impugn_a last_o in_o one_o year_n it_o be_v determine_v in_o book_n set_v out_o by_o authority_n among_o you_o that_o the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n may_v lawful_o be_v take_v by_o roman_a catholic_n in_o the_o next_o year_n we_o read_v that_o he_o be_v no_o good_a catholic_a that_o will_v take_v that_o oath_n the_o title_n of_o universal_a bishop_n be_v hold_v insolent_a arrogant_a profane_a antichristian_a luciferian_n in_o saint_n alibi_fw-la gregory_n time_n but_o now_o you_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v the_o holy_a title_n of_o christ_n vicar_n yea_o but_o say_v you_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o certain_a and_o infallible_a rule_n sufficient_a to_o preserve_v they_o from_o change_n belike_o then_o the_o scripture_n be_v no_o certain_a and_o infallible_a rule_n but_o unwritten_a tradition_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v no_o sure_a ground_n the_o pope_n decree_n be_v the_o apostle_n than_o have_v much_o deceive_v we_o who_o say_v let_v god_n be_v true_a 4._o and_o every_o man_n a_o liar_n if_o every_o man_n a_o liar_n every_o pope_n too_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d homo_fw-la not_o vir_fw-la only_a to_o exclude_v pope_n joane_n from_o privilege_n of_o inerrability_n you_o add_v to_o piece_n out_o your_o former_a argument_n that_o in_o my_o demonstration_n i_o prove_v magis_fw-la notum_fw-la perignotius_fw-la viz._n the_o visibilitie_n which_o be_v easy_o know_v by_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n which_o be_v more_o hardly_o know_v especial_o by_o only_a scripture_n of_o the_o sense_n whereof_o according_a to_o the_o protestant_n who_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n may_v err_v no_o particular_a man_n can_v be_v infallible_o sure_a the_o edge_n of_o this_o argument_n have_v be_v turn_v already_o in_o the_o remonstrance_n whereunto_o i_o add_v first_o that_o visibilitie_n be_v more_o know_v to_o sense_n than_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n but_o not_o to_o the_o understanding_n of_o a_o christian._n second_o the_o visiblenesse_n of_o a_o particular_a present_a church_n be_v the_o object_n of_o sense_n but_o not_o the_o perpetual_a former_a and_o future_a visibility_n of_o any_o one_o church_n much_o less_o of_o the_o universal_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v much_o easy_a out_o of_o plain_a and_o evident_a text_n of_o scripture_n together_o with_o the_o three_o creed_n know_v to_o the_o simple_a among_o we_o where_o the_o liturgy_n be_v in_o a_o know_a tongue_n to_o deduce_v the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n than_o he_o can_v produce_v a_o successive_a catalogue_n of_o visible_a professor_n out_o of_o good_a author_n in_o all_o age_n yea_o but_o no_o man_n say_v you_o can_v he_o infallible_o sure_a of_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n because_o protestant_n hold_v the_o whole_a church_n may_v err_v in_o thus_o argue_v you_o bewray_v either_o ignorance_n or_o a_o ill_a conscience_n ignorance_n if_o you_o know_v not_o that_o we_o distinguish_v between_o the_o essential_a or_o formal_a church_n and_o the_o church_n representative_a of_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o not_o necessary_a of_o evident_a text_n of_o scripture_n &_o of_o obscure_a but_o if_o you_o know_v these_o distinction_n as_o indeed_o you_o can_v but_o know_v they_o have_v read_v d._n field_n and_o other_o protestant_a writer_n you_o dispute_v against_o your_o conscience_n because_o in_o obscure_a and_o difficult_a text_n of_o scripture_n the_o church_n may_v err_v will_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a of_o the_o sense_n of_o plain_a and_o evident_a text_n in_o which_o if_o we_o may_v believe_v vivendi_fw-la saint_n austin_n all_o those_o thing_n be_v find_v which_o concern_v faith_n and_o manner_n will_v it_o follow_v because_o we_o hold_v that_o your_o church_n representative_a that_o be_v the_o pope_n and_o his_o consistory_n or_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o council_n may_v err_v that_o therefore_o the_o essential_a and_o formal_a church_n of_o christ_n consist_v of_o all_o the_o visible_a christian_n in_o the_o world_n in_o propound_v doctrine_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n out_o of_o scripture_n may_v err_v the_o church_n follow_v her_o guide_n the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v sure_a not_o to_o err_v whether_o universal_a or_o particular_a for_o which_o preservation_n from_o error_n we_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o there_o be_v a_o far_o high_a degree_n of_o spiritual_a assistance_n to_o the_o general_a counsel_n then_o national_a yet_o in_o both_o it_o sometime_o fall_v out_o that_o as_o austen_n observe_v priora_fw-la à _fw-la posterioribus_fw-la emendentur_fw-la the_o former_a be_v correct_v by_o the_o late_a three_o you_o beg_v a_o argument_n from_o yourself_o draw_v from_o a_o beggarly_a fallacy_n call_v petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la or_o beg_v your_o main_a question_n you_o say_v that_o my_o former_a syllogism_n be_v a_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la and_o therefore_o no_o demonstration_n but_o i_o prove_v it_o then_o and_o since_o confirm_v it_o that_o it_o be_v a_o demonstration_n and_o therefore_o no_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la let_v the_o reader_n here_o observe_v how_o your_o answer_n and_o objection_n interfere_v and_o supplant_v one_o the_o other_o master_n sweet_a will_v have_v my_o argument_n to_o be_v a_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la but_o you_o a_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la again_o elsewhere_o you_o call_v this_o argument_n a_o digression_n from_o the_o question_n &_o a_o diversive_a proof_n and_o yet_o here_o you_o will_v have_v it_o to_o be_v identicall_a wherefore_o as_o xenophanes_n oppose_v a_o motion_n make_v by_o eleates_n 〈◊〉_d in_o behalf_n of_o leucothea_n to_o celebrate_v her_o funeral_n with_o tear_n and_o lamentation_n and_o withal_o to_o sacrifice_v to_o she_o as_o a_o goddess_n this_o motion_n say_v he_o overthrow_v itself_o if_o we_o sacrifice_v to_o leucothea_n as_o a_o immortal_a goddess_n we_o must_v not_o bewail_v her_o death_n and_o if_o we_o bewail_v her_o death_n as_o be_v a_o mortal_a woman_n we_o must_v not_o sacrifice_v to_o she_o as_o to_o a_o goddess_n privilege_v from_o death_n in_o like_a manner_n whosoever_o read_v your_o say_a several_a answer_n may_v object_v against_o they_o if_o the_o argument_n abovenamed_n be_v a_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o transitio_fw-la à _fw-la genere_fw-la in_o genus_fw-la it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la if_o it_o be_v a_o diversive_a proof_n it_o can_v not_o be_v identicall_a if_o it_o be_v identicall_a as_o you_o here_o affirm_v it_o can_v be_v diversive_a for_o it_o imply_v a_o apparent_a contradiction_n to_o say_v thing_n that_o a_o man_n in_o prove_v idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la do_v digredi_fw-la ab_fw-la eodem_fw-la but_o you_o yield_v a_o reason_n why_o this_o argument_n beg_v or_o suppose_v that_o which_o be_v in_o question_n for_o say_v you_o in_o ask_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n or_o congregation_n of_o the_o true_a faithful_a we_o ask_v at_o least_o virtual_o which_o be_v the_o true_a faith_n by_o the_o like_a reason_n you_o may_v prove_v every_o demonstration_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la to_o be_v a_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la for_o in_o propound_v any_o question_n touch_v the_o effect_n we_o inquire_v virtual_o and_o implicit_o of_o the_o cause_n and_o therefore_o aristotle_n in_o lib._n 2._o poster_n analyt_v acute_o prove_v omnem_fw-la quaestionem_fw-la esse_fw-la quaestionem_fw-la medij_fw-la that_o every_o scientifical_a question_n be_v in_o effect_n a_o question_n of_o the_o medium_n or_o the_o cause_n by_o the_o like_a argument_n you_o may_v prove_v that_o all_o argument_n draw_v à _fw-fr definitione_n ad_fw-la definitum_fw-la be_v petitiones_fw-la principij_fw-la because_o in_o propound_v any_o question_n touch_v the_o definitum_fw-la we_o at_o least_o virtual_o inquire_v of_o the_o definition_n if_o the_o term_n in_o my_o syllogism_n be_v but_o formal_o distinct_a the_o syllogism_n can_v be_v no_o petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la how_o much_o less_o than_o can_v it_o be_v term_v petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la when_o as_o it_o be_v certain_a they_o be_v distinct_a real_o as_o yourself_o confess_v in_o your_o four_o argument_n to_o which_o now_o i_o address_v myself_o four_o you_o impeach_v my_o demonstration_n by_o push_v again_o at_o the_o mayor_n say_v although_o faith_n be_v prerequire_v to_o be_v in_o some_o or_o other_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o inward_a faith_n alone_o without_o
it_o be_v be_v only_o upon_o fraâ—ltie_n or_o humane_a fear_n of_o trouble_n and_o not_o any_o firm_a and_o settle_a resolution_n ground_v upon_o the_o conference_n since_o both_o before_o and_o after_o he_o show_v a_o contrary_a mind_n as_o have_v be_v say_v doctor_n featlie_n reply_n what_o you_o repeat_v in_o this_o passage_n touch_v my_o proceed_n in_o the_o conference_n have_v be_v before_o upon_o diverse_a occasion_n answer_v and_o i_o endeavour_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v to_o avoid_v your_o familiar_a figure_n of_o battologie_n or_o repetition_n for_o that_o which_o concern_v m._n bug_n that_o he_o receive_v satisfaction_n by_o the_o conference_n and_o give_v many_o thanks_n to_o sir_n humphrey_n lynd_n for_o procure_v it_o and_o not_o as_o you_o imagine_v when_o the_o trouble_n be_v about_o the_o conference_n but_o the_o selfsame_o night_n in_o the_o very_a room_n wherein_o we_o confer_v be_v not_o only_o prove_v by_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n his_o testimony_n but_o also_o by_o m._n bug_n own_o subscription_n both_o to_o the_o protestant_a relation_n in_o general_a and_o to_o this_o passage_n in_o particular_a and_o that_o of_o late_a since_o all_o pretend_a trouble_n be_v blow_v over_o now_o m._n fisher_n you_o be_v a_o very_a merry_a man_n that_o will_v go_v about_o to_o face_n a_o man_n out_o of_o his_o belief_n and_o dispute_v he_o out_o of_o that_o peace_n and_o comfort_n which_o he_o feel_v in_o his_o consciecne_n m._n bug_n may_v well_o answer_v you_o in_o the_o word_n of_o saint_n austen_n speak_v to_o another_o purpose_n tu_fw-la ratiocinare_fw-la ego_fw-la credam_fw-la etc._n etc._n do_v you_o syllogize_v i_o will_v believe_v demand_v you_o a_o reason_n if_o you_o list_v i_o will_v give_v thanks_n argue_v as_o long_o as_o you_o please_v how_o i_o can_v be_v resolve_v by_o the_o conference_n i_o be_o sure_a i_o be_v resolve_v and_o so_o still_o continue_v when_o the_o philosopher_n in_o a._n gellius_n sophistical_o dispute_v against_o motion_n in_o this_o manner_n whatsoever_o be_v move_v local_o be_v either_o move_v in_o the_o place_n wherein_o it_o be_v or_o wherein_o it_o be_v not_o it_o can_v be_v move_v in_o the_o place_n wherein_o it_o be_v not_o because_o that_o be_v not_o to_o move_v local_o or_o in_o place_n where_o the_o body_n have_v no_o existence_n it_o can_v have_v no_o motion_n neither_o can_v a_o body_n be_v say_v to_o move_v in_o the_o place_n wherein_o it_o be_v because_o while_o a_o body_n remain_v in_o its_o place_n it_o can_v move_v from_o it_o one_o of_o his_o auditor_n there_o present_a who_o arm_n a_o little_a before_o have_v be_v put_v out_o of_o joint_n though_o he_o can_v not_o verbal_o answer_v that_o his_o sophism_n yet_o he_o real_o refell_v it_o thus_o at_o ego_fw-la sensi_fw-la motum_fw-la luxato_fw-la brachio_n i_o be_o sure_a i_o feel_v a_o motion_n when_o i_o hurt_v my_o arm_n and_o put_v the_o bone_n out_o of_o joint_n in_o like_a manner_n when_o you_o argue_v that_o m._n bug_n can_v not_o be_v move_v by_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v speak_v in_o the_o conference_n because_o his_o question_n be_v not_o answer_v or_o the_o catalogue_n of_o name_n not_o produce_v or_o because_o d._n featlyes_n proof_n be_v diversive_a or_o because_o the_o popish_a audience_n still_o call_v for_o name_n or_o because_o you_o and_o m._n sweet_a be_v not_o yet_o satisfy_v or_o because_o i_o know_v not_o what_o m._n bug_n in_o a_o word_n refute_v all_o your_o reason_n at_o ego_fw-la sensi_fw-la motum_fw-la i_o be_o sure_a i_o feel_v myself_o move_v by_o it_o and_o the_o doubt_n which_o sometime_o shake_v my_o faith_n remove_v so_o that_o i_o waâ—_n thereby_o not_o as_o the_o other_o put_v out_o of_o joint_n but_o in_o joint_n and_o of_o lame_a make_v whole_a neither_o will_v it_o hence_o follow_v that_o m._n bug_n must_v needs_o be_v a_o man_n of_o mean_a capacity_n if_o he_o be_v satisfy_v by_o so_o short_a a_o conference_n but_o rather_o that_o god_n oftentimes_o use_v weak_a mean_n to_o overthrow_v satan_n strong_a hold_n firmus_n the_o maniche_n be_v reclaim_v from_o that_o heresy_n by_o a_o digression_n of_o saint_n austin_n in_o a_o certain_a homily_n alipius_n be_v draw_v from_o heathenish_a sport_n and_o pastime_n by_o a_o example_n in_o a_o discourse_n of_o saint_n austin_n on_o the_o by._n that_o noble_a venetian_a marquesse_n who_o leave_v both_o his_o marquisate_n and_o all_o that_o he_o have_v for_o the_o love_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o comfortable_o end_v his_o day_n at_o genevae_fw-la be_v at_o the_o first_o reform_v both_o in_o his_o faith_n and_o life_n by_o a_o elegant_a simile_n in_o a_o sermon_n of_o peter_n martyr_n sometime_o a_o exquisite_a sermon_n take_v not_o the_o auditory_a and_o sometime_o a_o far_o mean_a take_v now_o and_o then_o a_o strong_a argument_n work_v not_o upon_o the_o understanding_n and_o will_n and_o yet_o a_o weak_a proof_n do_v at_o the_o same_o time_n you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o story_n in_o ruffinus_n of_o a_o arrian_n philosopher_n of_o who_o the_o learned_a bishop_n in_o the_o council_n can_v get_v no_o ground_n at_o all_o yet_o a_o simple_a unlearned_a man_n by_o two_o or_o three_o blunt_a interrogatory_n conquer_v and_o quite_o confound_v he_o will_v you_o from_o this_o and_o the_o like_a instance_n infer_v that_o the_o man_n so_o convert_v be_v man_n of_o mean_a capacity_n the_o contrary_a evident_o appear_v in_o story_n you_o shall_v rather_o from_o hence_o gather_v with_o religious_a austen_n who_o may_v true_o be_v say_v to_o 〈◊〉_d write_v rather_o ex_fw-la gratia_fw-la then_o degratia_fw-la so_o gracious_o do_v he_o write_v of_o grace_n totum_fw-la deo_fw-la dare_v qui_fw-la voluntatem_fw-la hominis_fw-la bonam_fw-la et_fw-la praeparat_fw-la adiwandam_fw-la laurent_n et_fw-la adiwat_fw-la praeparatam_fw-la in_o our_o first_o conversion_n and_o every_o good_a work_n after_o to_o ascribe_v all_o to_o god_n who_o both_o prepare_v the_o will_v to_o be_v aid_v by_o grace_n and_o aid_v it_o be_v prepare_v yea_o but_o say_v you_o m._n bug_n much_o desire_v a_o second_o meeting_n therefore_o it_o seem_v he_o be_v not_o so_o resolute_a a_o protestant_n as_o we_o make_v he_o if_o this_o be_v a_o good_a argument_n you_o may_v prove_v all_o of_o our_o side_n to_o be_v unsettled_a in_o our_o religion_n yea_o m._n deane_n of_o carlisle_n and_o myself_o also_o who_o much_o desire_a and_o yet_o do_v a_o second_o meeting_n to_o perfect_v the_o work_n then_o begin_v though_o a_o man_n be_v never_o so_o well_o resolve_v in_o point_n of_o religion_n yet_o he_o may_v desire_v to_o hear_v divinity-disputation_n and_o make_v good_a use_n of_o they_o yea_o but_o m._n bug_n desire_v m._n fisher_n and_o m._n sweet_a to_o give_v he_o a_o catalogue_n of_o name_n of_o professor_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n say_v that_o if_o after_o this_o the_o doctor_n will_v not_o give_v he_o a_o catalogue_n of_o protestant_n he_o will_v dislike_v their_o cause_n if_o m._n bug_n speak_v so_o which_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o doubt_v he_o speak_v it_o as_o have_v certain_a knowledge_n that_o we_o have_v a_o catalogue_n which_o he_o do_v or_o may_v have_v see_v in_o the_o conference_n nor_o indeed_o do_v the_o desire_v or_o require_v of_o a_o catalogue_n infer_v any_o doubt_n of_o the_o conclusion_n though_o a_o plain_a unlearned_a christian_a believe_v most_o firm_o that_o christ_n be_v bear_v of_o the_o seed_n of_o abraham_n and_o david_n yet_o may_v he_o desire_v more_o particular_a information_n by_o hear_v the_o beginning_n of_o saint_n mathews_n or_o saint_n luke_n gospel_n read_v and_o expound_v to_o he_o moreover_o when_o i_o undertake_v to_o name_v those_o who_o teach_v protestant_n doctrine_n in_o all_o age_n if_o i_o shall_v fail_v therein_o he_o shall_v have_v have_v just_a cause_n to_o dislike_v my_o proceed_n yea_o but_o say_v you_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n give_v in_o the_o conference_n at_o all_o of_o any_o effectual_a resolution_n to_o be_v make_v by_o the_o old_a gentleman_n therefore_o he_o can_v not_o be_v so_o resolve_v by_o it_o as_o be_v pretend_v for_o answer_v hereunto_o though_o i_o be_o loath_a yet_o you_o constrain_v i_o to_o recapitulate_v the_o chief_a point_n touch_v in_o the_o conference_n before_o the_o conference_n m._n bug_n be_v somewhat_o stagger_v in_o the_o point_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n by_o your_o bravado_n and_o rhodomontadoe_n that_o all_o the_o world_n be_v papist_n before_o luther_n that_o there_o be_v neither_o vola_fw-la nor_o vestigium_fw-la of_o a_o protestant_a church_n before_o that_o time_n conference_n that_o no_o protestant_a minister_n dare_v encounter_v you_o in_o this_o point_n if_o any_o shall_v be_v so_o hardy_a as_o to_o enter_v into_o these_o list_n with_o you_o you_o will_v present_o blank_n silence_n and_o nouplus_fw-la they_o
thus_o possess_v and_o in_o some_o sort_n perplex_v by_o your_o bold_a and_o confident_a assertion_n and_o false_a suggestion_n he_o with_o much_o ado_n by_o sir_n humphrey_n lyndes_n mean_v procure_v a_o conference_n wherein_o he_o find_v all_o thing_n otherwise_o then_o he_o may_v expect_v he_o and_o all_o the_o auditory_a observe_v d._n white_a and_o myself_o to_o be_v very_o ready_a and_o earnest_a to_o proceed_v in_o the_o question_n both_o to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o our_o church_n and_o disproove_v they_o on_o the_o contrary_a he_o can_v not_o but_o see_v you_o to_o cast_v all_o manner_n of_o remoraes_n and_o rub_n to_o hinder_v speedy_a and_o direct_a proceed_n and_o for_o the_o question_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n first_o he_o hear_v that_o the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o to_o be_v build_v upon_o deduction_n from_o humane_a story_n and_o good_a author_n as_o the_o jesuite_n require_v but_o upon_o divine_a revelation_n in_o god_n word_n as_o be_v confess_v by_o fidem_fw-la learned_a papist_n second_o that_o a_o protestant_a church_n may_v have_v be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o yet_o not_o the_o name_n of_o visible_a protestant_n now_o to_o be_v produce_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n because_o neither_o all_o man_n name_n ever_o be_v upon_o record_n nor_o be_v all_o ancient_a record_n preserve_v to_o this_o day_n neither_o can_v we_o come_v by_o all_o those_o record_n that_o be_v yet_o extant_a three_o that_o notwithstanding_o the_o popish_a brag_n that_o all_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v papist_n before_o luther_n yet_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o name_v any_o country_n city_n village_n or_o hamlet_n nay_o not_o any_o man_n who_o for_o 500_o year_n and_o more_o after_o christ_n either_o profess_v your_o trent-faith_n in_o general_a or_o those_o fifteen_o point_n recite_v in_o the_o conference_n in_o particular_a four_o that_o the_o sure_a and_o strong_a mean_n to_o prove_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o a_o church_n be_v á_o priori_fw-la by_o the_o conformity_n of_o its_o faith_n to_o the_o scripture_n of_o which_o faith_n god_n promise_v in_o his_o word_n that_o it_o shall_v have_v visible_a professor_n to_o the_o world_n end_n five_o that_o a_o visible_a church_n infer_v not_o necessary_o a_o right_a faith_n jew_n mahumetanes_n gentile_n and_o diverse_a sort_n of_o blasphemous_a heretic_n have_v visible_a professor_n of_o their_o impiety_n yet_o be_v they_o all_o of_o a_o wrong_a belief_n if_o of_o any_o on_o the_o contrary_a the_o right_a faith_n infer_v necessary_o a_o visible_a church_n because_o the_o true_a faith_n can_v be_v in_o a_o church_n which_o profess_v it_o not_o open_o or_o private_o therefore_o the_o prime_n and_o main_a question_n of_o all_o be_v of_o the_o right_a belief_n of_o the_o primitive_a and_o catholic_a faith_n whether_o we_o or_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v it_o and_o not_o of_o a_o catalogue_n of_o name_n six_o that_o a_o offer_n be_v make_v to_o name_v some_o eminent_a person_n which_o in_o all_o age_n teach_v protestant_a doctrine_n and_o oppose_v the_o romish_a error_n either_o when_o they_o come_v in_o or_o not_o long_o after_o and_o that_o this_o catalogue_n have_v be_v a_o good_a way_n proceed_v in_o if_o you_o have_v not_o be_v the_o cause_n by_o your_o delay_n and_o tergiversation_n last_o that_o when_o i_o instance_a in_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o urge_v you_o again_o and_o again_o yea_o and_o adiur_v you_o also_o to_o answer_v direct_o whether_o they_o teach_v our_o faith_n or_o you_o yet_o you_o peremptory_o and_o final_o refuse_v so_o to_o do_v which_o he_o may_v well_o interpret_v to_o proceed_v from_o your_o apparent_a distrust_n in_o your_o cause_n and_o now_o let_v the_o discreet_a reader_n judge_v whether_o m._n bug_n have_v not_o reason_n to_o alter_v his_o opinion_n concern_v you_o and_o your_o cause_n at_o least_o in_o that_o particular_a of_o which_o only_o he_o seem_v to_o doubt_v of_o short_o after_o the_o conference_n m._n fisher_n send_v this_o letter_n ensue_v to_o the_o right_n honourable_a the_o earl_n of_o warwick_n the_o copy_n of_o m._n fisher_n letter_n right_o honourable_a lord_n i_o esteem_v it_o a_o special_a providence_n of_o god_n that_o your_o lordship_n be_v present_a at_o a_o late_a conference_n wherein_o d._n white_a and_o d._n feat_o undertake_v to_o show_v against_o i_o and_o my_o companion_n that_o the_o protestant_a church_n have_v be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o that_o their_o professor_n may_v be_v name_v especial_o in_o the_o age_n before_o luther_n your_o lordship_n may_v remember_v the_o substance_n of_o all_o the_o proof_n to_o have_v consist_v in_o this_o that_o the_o true_a church_n be_v always_o so_o visible_a as_o the_o professor_n thereof_o in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v name_v but_o the_o protestant_n be_v the_o true_a church_n we_o refuse_v to_o dispute_v of_o the_o minor_a because_o it_o transfer_v the_o question_n and_o avoid_v that_o plain_a proof_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o be_v then_o propound_v and_o expect_v if_o as_o they_o conclude_v they_o be_v able_a to_o name_v their_o professor_n in_o all_o age_n why_o do_v they_o refuse_v to_o give_v we_o a_o catalogue_n of_o they_o as_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o have_v give_v they_o another_o of_o we_o why_o go_v they_o about_o to_o prove_v they_o be_v able_a to_o name_v they_o when_o with_o less_o ado_n they_o may_v have_v name_v they_o where_o deed_n be_v just_o expect_v word_n without_o deed_n be_v worthy_o neglect_v certain_o hereby_o they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o have_v discharge_v themselves_o of_o the_o great_a enterprise_n they_o undertake_v as_o they_o stand_v more_o engage_v then_o before_o to_o the_o performance_n of_o it_o for_o have_v now_o profess_v and_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o true_a church_n or_o to_o use_v their_o own_o word_n the_o church_n that_o be_v so_o visible_a as_o the_o catholic_n church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o the_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o unchanged_a must_v be_v be_v able_a to_o name_v her_o professor_n in_o all_o age_n either_o for_o their_o own_o honour_n and_o for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o the_o world_n they_o must_v set_v down_o the_o name_n of_o their_o professor_n in_o all_o age_n or_o else_o they_o shameful_o discover_v themselves_o not_o to_o be_v that_o true_a and_o visible_a unchanged_a church_n which_o be_v able_a to_o name_v they_o again_o at_o the_o length_n yield_v as_o they_o do_v to_o show_v the_o continual_a visibility_n of_o their_o church_n by_o a_o full_a induction_n of_o their_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n which_o they_o seem_v to_o undertake_v with_o great_a confidence_n why_o do_v they_o stick_v in_o the_o first_o age_n alone_o refuse_v to_o name_v their_o professor_n in_o the_o age_n follow_v until_o the_o first_o be_v try_v may_v not_o the_o answerer_n choose_v to_o deny_v which_o part_n of_o the_o argument_n he_o please_v and_o be_v it_o ever_o hear_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v enforce_v to_o reply_v to_o one_o proposition_n alone_o before_o the_o whole_a argument_n whether_o it_o be_v syllogism_n or_o induction_n be_v full_o propound_v very_o noble_o therefore_o and_o prudent_o your_o lordship_n in_o the_o end_n desire_v another_o meeting_n not_o doubt_v that_o your_o own_o party_n within_o three_o or_o four_o day_n will_v be_v content_a to_o give_v we_o the_o name_n of_o their_o professor_n in_o all_o age_n as_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o give_v they_o the_o name_n of_o we_o that_o thereby_o both_o side_n may_v be_v the_o better_o prepare_v for_o a_o second_o trial_n which_o when_o they_o have_v perform_v we_o shall_v not_o fail_v to_o encounter_v with_o they_o either_o by_o way_n of_o speech_n or_o writing_n as_o your_o lordship_n all_o thing_n consider_v shall_v think_v fair_a or_o safe_a or_o most_o convenient_a for_o the_o discovery_n of_o truth_n but_o if_o your_o lordship_n shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o obtain_v at_o their_o hand_n this_o your_o most_o just_a and_o important_a request_n the_o defect_n of_o proof_n on_o their_o part_n must_v needs_o be_v account_v a_o plain_a flight_n and_o no_o man_n hereafter_o can_v prudent_o rely_v his_o salvation_n upon_o that_o church_n which_o for_o want_n of_o perpetual_a visibility_n prove_v they_o themselves_o shall_v have_v conclude_v to_o be_v false_a and_o feign_a thus_o expect_v the_o issue_n hereof_o and_o your_o lordship_n further_a pleasure_n from_o the_o mouth_n of_o this_o bearer_n i_o remain_v the_o first_o of_o july_n 1623._o your_o lordship_n servant_n in_o christ_n john_n fisher_n doctor_n featlie_n answer_n to_o m._n fisher_n letter_n in_o peruse_v this_o letter_n of_o you_o i_o can_v not_o but_o think_v of_o the_o old_a riddle_n homâ—_n 〈…〉_z videns_fw-la