must be obstructed by the grant of an undetermin'd liberty in Man It is not that I know of affirm'd by any Disputant that there is such a lawless Liberty in Man as is not under subjection to the absolute Power of God but that it is a Liberty which God Almighty in an agreeableness to the free nature of Man hath been pleas'd to grant and for the greater part to suffer in the exercise of it Only it is said concerning sin that God cannot force the Will of Man to the commission of it for the production of such a wretched Issue would argue not omnipotency but impotence and imperfection in the parent of it God created Man and gave a Law to him and design'd not to use his Almighty Power to effect the fulfilling of that Law which Power supposeth the Command of a Law to be in vain He therefore that interposeth not his Power whilst he may hath not his Power disanulled when his preceptive Will is only withstood and he permitteth that disobedience Mr. Hobbes But what Elusion can be invented touching the foreknowledg of God The denying necessity destroyeth both the Decrees and Prescience of God Almighty for whatsoever God hath purposed to bring to pass by Man as an instrument or foreseeth shall come to pass a Man if he have Liberty from necessitation might frustrate and make not to come to pass and God should either not foreknow it and not decree it or he should foreknow such things shall be as shall never be and decree that which shall never come to pass Stud. Touching the Decees of God it cannot be proved that they extend to all things which come to pass For his Prescience I 'm sure that it extendeth to all things possible to be known and that it hath no necessary influence upon the Event it doth neither hinder the Power of God nor the Liberty of Man God foreseeth that the Event may come to paâ—s and that he will not hinder it yet that he might and it cometh to pass most necessarily if God â—oreseeth it but the necessity ariseth from the supposition of the infallibility and not from any causal energy of divine foreknowledg It is manifest by the fulfilled Prophesies of divers inspired Men that there is Prescience and a man may also be assured that neither is his Liberty intringed by it nor Prescience by his Liberty It is evident to every Man in many cases as evident as that he perceiveth at all or understandeth that he willeth or â—efuseth without any constraint upon his freedom But there is great difficulty in unridling the manner of the consistence of Foreknowledg and Liberty because although there be some notion yet there is not a knowledg fully comprehensive of the Divine Wisdom in a finite Soul Thus much notwithstanding may with sobriety be offer'd towards the explication of this mysterious truth that the boundless wisdom of God who made the World understanding the Laws and Operations of his Workmanship from the beginning to the end of them understandeth also the nature of all appearances in all Objects in relation to the mind of Man in every Estate wherein he is placed and at all times together with the dispositions of each Man's Soul and thereby foreseeth what he will refuse or chuse whilst he had power absolutely speaking otherwise either to elect or reject He that should drop a piece of money by an undiscerned hand in the way of a man afflicted with extream poverty the same person might readily foresee that the espied money would infallibly be taken up by that poor man though he could not but understand that the Beggar had so much power over his own limbs as not to stoop unless he pleased But it seemeth not worth the time and pains to reconcile to your apprehension the Doctrins of Foreknowledg and undetermin'd Liberty because this Objection is by you proposed in order to the amusing of other Men's Reasons rather than in justification of the Truth For according to your Principles all evidence or knowledg ariseth from Objects already in being Neither understand you this of Essence in the Sense of the Metaphysick-Schools but of the actual presence of caused Objects Mr. Hobbes In my Opinion Foreknowledg is Knowledg and Knowledg depends on the existence of things known not they on it However the Objection serveth for the incommoding of those who maintain another sort of Foreknowledg but the argument on which I establish my Doctrine is of another kind I hold that to be a sufficient cause to which nothing is wanting that is needful to the producing of the effect The same also is a necessary cause For if it be possible that a sufficient cause shall not bring forth the effect then there wanteth somewhat which was needful to the producing of it and so the Cause was not sufficient but if it be impossible that a sufficient Cause should not produce the Effect then is a sufficient Cause a necessary Cause for that is said to produce an Effect necessarily that cannot but produce it Hence it is manifest that whatsoever is produced is produced necessarily for whatsoever is produced hath had a sufficient Cause to produce it or else it had not been and therefore also voluntary actions are necessitated Stud. In the alterations made in Bodies every sufficient is an efficient Cause by reason that matter sufficiently moved cannot stay it self but is wholly determin'd by foreign impulse which impulse also had an undefeated determination But because I have proved the existence of an Immaterial Soul I may affirm that all outward preparations being made so that there remaineth nothing wanting but the Act of Volition the Spiritual Mind not being overcome by the sway of Matter hath a power to abstain from acting though perhaps it is not pleased to use it And this we may illustrate by the Example of Abraham whose Fire Wood and Son to be a Victim and Sacrificing-knife were in a readiness and sufficient strength with these to execute the Command which God Almighty by way of trial had given to him yet who can doubt that Abraham had a power at the same time to render these preparations useless and to be disobedient For how could those Objects and this Command conveigh a force into his Will and thence into his Arm to slay his Son though they might present him with a reason which the goodness of his Disposition would not refuse The intention of Abraham to slay his Son was wrought by a Moral and not a Physical or Natural Power Mr. Hobbes Natural efficacy of Objects does determine voluntary Agents and necessitates the Will and consequently the Action but for Moral efficacy I understand not what you mean Stud. I understand by Moral efficacy the perswaâ—ive power of such Motives as those which arise from fear and love and trust and gratitude and especially such as arise from the meer reason of the Case as when a man doth therefore give Alms
of an Incorporeal God to any end of it distinctly known Wherefore the Stoicks long before you supposing God to be a kind of Fire and the Soul to be a subtil Body held also the opinion of Irresistible Fate And Plutarch and Stobaeus take notice of both Opinions together as I find them cited by Lipsius in his Manuduction to that Philosophy Upon which occasion a worthy and learned person hath in his Discourse at the Funeral of Bishop Hall deservedly call'd you the New Stoick If then there be nothing more divine in Man than Matter and Motion he does as necessarily chuse or refuse as Fire ascends or a Stone is pressed towards the Earth Mr. Hobbes It is no more necessary that Fire should burn than that a man or other creature whose Limbs be moved by Fancy should have Election that is Liberty to do what he hath a fancy to do though it be not in his Will or Power to choose his fancy or to choose his Election and Will Good and evil sequels of Mens Actions retained in Memory do frame and make us to the Election of whatsoever it be that we elect and the memory of such things proceeds from the Senses and Sense from the operation of the Objects of sense which are external to us and govern'd only by God Almighty and by consequence all actions even of free and voluntary Agents are necessary Stud. Were Man such a piece of Mechanism as has been forged by your untoward invention much of the Cause would be granted to you and yet not this that the Memory of good or evil Sequels of Mens Actions do frame us unto Every election because there are too many whom no examples of Punishment will deterr from such evil manners as they see daily producing bitter effects But seeing it has been prov'd that there is in Man an Immaterial Soul it follows thence that the Motions from the Object continued to the Brain and Heart can only solicite and not force the Assent of that Incorporeal Being which giveth them passage or resisteth them and determineth them at its pleasure in divers cases Neither can outward force any more restrain this Spiritual mind than Xerxes could properly fetter the Hellespont There is then left me but little work in oppugning your Opinion about Liberty and Necessity seeing the foundation of your belief of Fate is the Corporeity of the Universe It is also to be considered that a Person of great fame and place hath already contended with you so very much to your disadvantage that it seems not worth the while for any Man henceforth to enter the lists And of this I will not make my self the Judg but repeat the opinion of a Learned Man who was wont to declare his mind in Controversies with unbyassed freedom It is known every where said that Elegant Writer with what Piety and acumen the last Lord Primate of all Ireland wrote against the Manichean Doctrine of fatal Necessity which a late witty Man had pretended to adorn with a new vizor but this excellent person wash'd off the Cerusse and the Meritricious Paintings rarely well asserted the Oeconomy of the Divine Providence and having once more triumph'd over his Adversary Plenus Victoriarum Trophaearum be took himself to the more agreeable attendance upon Sacred Offices Mr. Hobbes This luxuriant Pen-man boasts of Trophies and the Bishop himself of old talk'd of clearing the coast by Distinctions and dividing his forces into two squadrons one of places of Scripture the other of Reasons And I say notwithstanding to continue in the military allusion begun by them that in my Books not only his squadrons of Arguments but also his reserve of Distinctions are defeated Stud. I perceive you intend to make good the Character now given of you of being a witty Man although according to the Principles of your own Philosophy it redoundeth not much to your reputation For Wit depending upon a tenuity and agility of spirits there seemeth wanting in a very witty Man that fixation of parts which is required to Prudence Touching your Antagonist there is no doubt and it appeareth by your fretting and sprawling that you have felt the smart of that Opposition which he hath made against you But so far as I can remember for I have not had for some years any writing of his in my possession he hath not level'd his men in force against that place wherein you seem to me most capable of being wounded and wherein your chief strength seemeth to lay that is to say the Materiality of the whole Sphaere of Nature In relation to which I am apt to be perswaded that in this Controversie about Fate you by a daring consequence do charge the most holy God with all the iniquities committed in the World For all Effects arising from Motion and all Motion being derived from the first immoveable Mover all subordinate Causes and Effects will owe themselves in a chain-like dependance to the supreme Original Cause Mr. Hobbes The concourse of all causes maketh not one simple chain or concatenation but an innumerable number of Chains joyned together not in all parts but in the first link God Almighty That which I say necessitateth and determineth every action is the sum of all things which being now existent conduce and concur to the production of that Action hereafter whereof if any one thing now were wanting the effect could not be produced This concourse of Causes whereof every one is determined to be such as it is by a like concourse of former Causes may well be called in respect they were all set and ordered by the eternal Cause of all things God Almighty The Decree of God Every act of mans will and every desire and inclination proceedeth from some cause and that from another cause in a continual Chain whose first link is in the hand of God the Cause of all Causes and therefore the voluntary Actions of Men proceed from Necessity Stud. Impute not that with falshood and dishonour to God which is caused by Man's unconstrained Will the only Mother which conceiveth and bringeth forth Sin not withstanding that Objects may incline and Examples may entice and opportunities may invite and evil Angels may tempt and Constitution may encline and God permitteth Let no Man therefore say when he is tempted he is tempted of God for every Man is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed Mr. Hobbes 'T is Blasphemy to say God can sin but to say that God can so order the World as a sin may be necessarily caused thereby in a Man I do not see how it is any dishonnour to Him Stud. These Answers should not have proceeded from a Man who professeth himself a Christian of no mean degree They come I was ready to say as unexpectedly as if they had dropped out of the Heavens but that they have relation to a lower place If we brand
the Law or safety of Man is as guilty as Man himself and with indignation to be broken in pieces if Man be unavoidably and fatally managed as in a Puppet-play by a foreign hand discern'd only by you who pretend to see within the Curtain I remember to have read that Draco the Athenian made a Law whereby the very Instruments of Homicide were punish'd And the Sons of him that perished by the fall of Nicon's Statue which he had whipped in order to the greater infamy of Nicon condemn'd the Statue as a Murtherer and with solemnity threw it into the Sea But they were not so sottish by these Laws and practices to pretend a real punishment of such Instruments but they design'd to move Beholders to the greater abhorrence of spilling human Blood and they gave some vent to the fermenting rage of their inward passion which might have swell'd to their greater discommodity if they had not sought some means of dischargeing it Mr. Hobbes 'T is unreasonable to punish some Actions of Men which could not be justly done by man to man unless the same were voluntary The nature of Sin consisteth in this that the Action done proceed from our Will and be against the Law A Judg in judging whether it be a sin or no which is done against the Law looks at no higher cause in the Action than the Will of the doer Now when I say the Action is necessary I do not say it was done against the will of the Doer but with his will And the Will to break the Law maketh the Action unjust because the Law regardeth the Will and no other precedent Causes of Action Stud. The Will if we have regard to the Opinion which you hold concerning it can neither render the Action unjust or the Judg righteous in his sentence of Condemnation because every Volition or Act of the Will and Purpose of Man is by outward violence made unavoidable and the beginning and progress of deliberation dependeth also upon necessary Causes Mr. Hobbes I acknowledg that when first a Man hath a Will to something to which immediately before he had no Appetite nor Will the cause of the Will is not the Will it self but something else not in his own disposing So that whereas it is out of controversie that of Voluntary Actions the Will is the necessary Cause and by this which is said the Will is also caused by other things whereof it disposeth not it followeth that Voluntary Actions have all of them necessary causes and therefore are necâ—ssitated Stud. Wherefore if the Law inflicteth capital punishment upon a Man with regard unto his Will the Man suffers for that which was not in his power to help and is therefore to be reckoned amongst those whose blood is shed without any proper stain in it Mr. Hobbes Men are justly killed not for that their Actions are necessitated but because they are noxious Men are not therefore put to death or punished for that their theft proceedeth from Election but because it was noxious contrary to Mens preservation Stud. The Law regards the free choice ' though it hath respect also to the mischief derived on the Commonwealth Wherefore there have been Cities of Refuge constituted for the safeguard of those who had unwittingly kill'd a man whilst the wilful Murtherers were to repay blood for blood And amongst our selves the blood of the most unuseful person in the Land shall be avenged by the death of the ablest Soldier or Counsellor if the Law may have its course and it be satisf'd that he shed it with a deliberate stroke whilst a pitiful ignorant Criple shall escape if by meer mischance he shall slay such a man as is able to serve a Kingdom either by his Sword or Prudence In which cases the Laws have regard rather to the wilfulness than the noxiousness of the Actors So also in the Roman Law reported by Paulus I. C. de poenis Paganorum he that wilfully burnt an house was to suffer death but he that by accident burnt a Village or an Island was but a Debtor But if noxiousness be the Rule of Judging then are you to change your phrase and say not that men are punished which presupposeth a crime but afflicted or killed after the manner of Beasts which not being capable of Law do perish without Law as their ruin conduceth to the behoof or security of Man And therefore the Civil Law calleth not the fact of a Beast injuria but damnum and determineth that a Beast being devoid of Reason can do no Injury Mr. Hâ—bb As for Beasts we kill them justly when we do 't in ord'r to our own preservation Stud. But that Justice dependeth upon the dominion which God hath vouchsafed Man over those Creatures to which some will not allow so much as sense and many no more than direct Perception though you are so profuse in one of your Books as to grant them Election and Deliberation And here let it be observed that God who hath given this Dominion to Man hath revealed it also to be his purpose not to rule and judg him by absolute Soveraignty nor to approve of Men whilst they measure their Right amongst themselves by a power not to be controll'd But he hath shew'd that he will govern them and have you deal with one another according to the equal Laws of their reasonable Nature Mr. Hobbes You run on in Exceptions against that Doctrine of Necessity which I have proposed but you take no notice of the inconveniencies wherwith your own opinion is pressed And first you take no notice of the consistence of Freedom and Necessity or that God and good Angels are supposed to be freer than Men and yet do good necessarily It was a very great praise in my opinion that Villeius Paterculus gives Cato where he says That he was good by Nature Et quia aliter esse non potisit Stud. The Necessity wherewith Almighty God doth always good is of a kind extremely different from that Physical co-action which you believe to be the Cause of each effect For he determineth himself by the eternal Reason of his own most perfect nature and is not urged by outward impulse which if it could once be attributed to him he would straightway cease to be God Omnipotent Mr. Hobbes That word Omnipotent reminds me of a second inconvenience which attendeth the Opposers of my Doctrine For if Gods Will did not assure the necessity of Man's Will and consequently of all that on Man's Will dependeth the Liberty of Men would be a contradiction and impediment to the Omnipotence and Liberty of God Stud. It is in you absurd to mention Liberty even in relation to God himself because by ascribing to him a Material Nature you assign him no Motions but such as arise from Physical compulsion But upon what account is it said by you that the Omnipotence of God
meerly because he apprehends it to be more blessed to give than to receive and not to be rid of the pang of compassion or to obtain praise or other reward By such Motives the Mind is often prevail'd upon without the force of Corporeal Motion being wooed and not pressed unavoidably into Consent Of these Motives that of Fear may seem to have Meâ—hanick force because that Passion is often stirred up by the horror of Objects disturbing the natural course of the Blood But it will be granted by your self that the very passion of Fear doth not compell but incline the Will For you acknowledg that Fear and Liberty are consistent as when a Man throweth his Goods into the Sea for fear the Ship should sink he doth it nevertheless very willingly and may refuse to do it if he will It is therefore the action of one that was free Seeing then the Incorporeal Soul of Man is induced by perswasion and not compelled by Natural Motion you may as soon convince me that every sufficient Man as we are wont to call a wealthy person is therefore a dispenser of his Goods and a liberal Man as that the immaterial Soul is forthwith compell'd to act when all things are present which are needful to the producing of the effect and all impediments are removed Mr. Hobbes To say that an Agent in such Circumstances can nevertheless not produce the effect implies a contradiction and is non-sense being as much as to say the Cause may be sufficient that is to say necessary and yet the effect shall not follow That all Events have necessary Causes hath been proved already in that they have sufficient Causes Further let us in this place also suppose any Event never so casual as the throwing for example Ames-Ace upon a pair of Dice and see if it must not have been necessary before 't was thrown For seeing it was thrown it had a beginning and consequently a sufficient cause to produce it consisting partly in the Dice partly in outward things as the posture of the parts of the hand the measure of force applied by the Caster the posture of the parts of the Table and the like In sum there was nothing wanting which was necessarily requisite to the producing of that particular Cast consequently the Cast was necessarily thrown for if it had not been thrown there had wanted somewhat requisite to the throwing of it and so the cause had not been sufficient Stud. Here you make instance in an Event resulting from Circumstances of Bodies and from Physical motion in relation to which I have already granted that a sufficient is an efficient Cause and declar'd the reason of it and how it toucheth not the present business But by this last Answer I begin to understand that you obtrude a Sophism upon me instead of a real Argument For whilst you say that sufficient is the same which necessary and that if the Cast had not been thrown there was something wanting you include in your sufficient Cause when you speak of Man the very act of Volition besides all the furniture prepared for that act And then your meaning amounts to this that when there is each thing needful and no impediment and also a Will to act the effect followeth But here you beg the Question which is this Whether all things requisite to action being present the will and act of Volition excepted the Soul hath not a power to forbear that Act and whilst you suppose a removal of impediments and the presence of all things necessary and the act of the Will also and then say the Cause is sufficient and efficient too you say no more than that a Man produceth necessarily an effect whilst he produceth it which indeed is a truth for he cannot act and not act at the same time but in the present Controversie it is an egregious Impertinence For the Necessity which you speak of is not in the Will it self or in the Effect but in that consequence which the mind createth by supposing that the Will complieth with the means and that whilst it chuseth it cannot but chuse Wherefore this fallacy is like to theirs who say the Will is necessarily determin'd by the last act of the Understanding meaning because it is the last they suppose the last act and that the Will closeth with the Understanding and then they say it followeth upon necessity which is no more than to affirm that there is nothing later than the last And if I am not impos'd upon by my memory you somewhere argue that the Will is the last appetite in deliberating and that therefore though we say in common Discourse A man had once a will to do a thing that nevertheles he forbears to do yet that is not properly a will because the action depends not of it but of the laâ—t inclination or appetite You suppose the Will to be the last Inclination and that thereâ—ore the Action depends upon it because it is the last and then you call it sufficient and necessary when you have made it to be such not in its own nature but by the supposition framed in your own brain And thus you have made a great noise and kackling about Sufficient and Efficient whilst there is nothing here said by you which is not as insipid as the white of an Egg. But of that Necessity which is said to compell the Will of Man enough let â—s consider that Law which obligeth it though not by force to action yet upon default to punishment And that we may proceed in order let our beginning be made at Our Seventh Head The Law of Nature that inward Law in relation to which each Man is a Magistrate to himself erecting a Tribunal in his own Breast Mr. Hobbes There is right and also a Law of Nature The Right of Nature is the Liberty each Man hath to use his own power as he will himself for the preservation of his own nature that is to say of his own life and consequently of doing any thing which in his own judgment and reason he shall conceive to be the aptest means thereunto The Law of Nature is a precept or general Rule found out by Reason by which a Man is forbidden to do that which is destructive of his life or taketh away the means of preserving the same and to omit that by which he thinketh it may be lest preserved the sum of the Right of the right of Nature is by all means we can to defend our selves This is the first foundation of Natural Right Stud. The distinction betwixt the Right and the Law of Nature is with good reason to be admitted But you ought not to challenge it to your self seeing it is expressly noted by divers ancient Authors and in particular by Laurentius Valla That which you add seemeth as false as the other is ancient For the right dictate of Natural Reason obliging Man not yet suppos'd a
and are unwilling to allow to others their turns of speaking For the rest I might alledge with truth enough by way of excuse the performance of this Labour in the short space of the last Winter-Quarter but the Apology it self the great haste in those twelve Artiâ—les might perhaps seem a crime and a matter of greater guilt then the errour of Ovid who made the Sun to post through all the twelve Signes of the Zodiack in a single day The whole such as it is is most humbly submitted to the Candor and Charity of your Lordship of which that it is great I have good assurance seeing your Honour hath pleased to receive into the number of your dependants My Lord Your Lordships most obliged though unworthy Servant Tho. Tenison Camb. Iune 4. 1670 A TABLE Of the Contents THe Introduction Page Mr. Hobbes and the Student meet at Buxton-well 2. An instance of the train of imagination occasioned there 4 5. Mr. Hobbes his fear suspitious nature expressed in the instance of S. Roscius and parallel'd with the Character of Epicurus in Cicero 5. The entrance into the Dialogue The Students caution about Moroseness Profaneness c. Mr. Hobbes accus'd by des Cartes in one of his Epistles as a man with whom no correspondence is to be held Des Cartes himself noted for prophaning the holy Text. 5 6. Mr. Hobbes defence against the charge of Moroseness c. 7. Why des Cartes an Enemie to Mr. Hobbes and how they differ in the explaining of Sense ibid. Mr. Hobbes Creed in 12 Articles repeated 8 9. Mr. Hobbes boasts of the good effect of his Leviathan upon many of our Gentry 9. Article 1. Concerning the existence and immaterial nature of God 9. c. What Mr. Hobbes meaneth Atheistically in his pretended argument for the existence of a God 10. Mr. Hobbes opinion concerning the corporeitie of God noted by des Cartes and further shewed out of his Leviathan 10 11. The absurd consequences of that opinion which in effect denyeth the being of a God one of them noted by Athenagoras 12 13. Mr. Hobbes self-contradiction whilest he saith all is body yet denyeth parts in God 14. Mr. Hobbes denieth incorporeal substances because the terms are not in Scripture 15. His self-contradiction and improprietie of speech 16. Against Mr. Hobbes that the Scripture favours the doctrine of incorporeal substances 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cited by Ignatius out of the N. T. 17. Against Mr. Hobbes that both Plato and Aristotle wrote of incorporeal substances 17 18. Mr. Hobbes argueth against incorporeal substances from Tertullian and the Doctors of the Greek Church 19. Against Mr. Hobbes that the incorporeitie of God is asserted by Athenagoras Theophilus Aut. Tatianus Eusebius Athanasius c. 19 20. Des Cartes accuseth Mr. Hobbes of making false illations whatsoever the premisses be 20. An answer out of other places in Tertullian to the words cited by Mr. Hobbes 22. Mr. Hobbes writes the same over and over especially about incorporeal substances 23. That Mr. Hobbes fixeth a wrong sense upon the words substance and matter 24 25. A saying of Marcellus concerning the making words free 24. Mr. Hobbes doctrine concerning the incomprehensible nature of God 26. How God is incomprehensible 27 28. Against Mr. Hobbes that we may have an Idea of God what an Idea is 31 32. That Mr. Hobbes is not advanc'd above the power of imagination 32 33. That Mr. Hobbes condemneth himself by granting a conception of Vacuum 35. Of the Antients calling God the place of all things 36. The first Article concluded with the Apostrophe of Arnobius 36 37. Article 2. Concerning the Trinity 37 38. Mr. Hobbes monstrous explication of that mystery 38. Mr. Hobbes submitteth to the Annotations of the Assembly 40. Pope Alexanders absurd proof of the Trinity noted by Enjedinus ibid. According to Mr. Hobbes there may be more then 100 persons in the Deity 41. Concerning Adam Abraham Moses Saul Christ c. as representing Gods person ibid. Against Mr. Hobbes that Father in the old Testament is used somtimes in reference to Christ. 42. A text cited by Just. Martyr disagreeing with the vulgar copy ibid. The Trinity according to the explication of Mr. Hobbes no mystery at all 43. Article 3. Of the Origin of the Vniverse 43 44. c. Mr. Hobbes conception of a great bulk of matter arising out of a point 44. Against Mr. Hobbes that men are not wearied in ascending by effects and causes to the first 45. Mr. Hobbes supposing an eternal cause in motion supposeth an eternal cause to be no eternal 46. The school of Epicurus noted by Cicero as deficient touching the source of motion 47. Against Mr. Hobbes that the Creation is to be proved by reason not authority 48 49. Mr. Hobbes is followed in his digression about the word Magistrate and refuted and places out of Varro Cicero Tertullian Grotius our Articles are to that purpose cited and Castalio's niceness taxed 49 50 51. Against Mr. Hobbes that if God is it follows he is Creator of the order of the world of the scituation of the heart 52 53. Mr. Hobbes in De homine confesseth that the order of the parts of the body doth inferre the existence of an intelligent framer of them 54. Article 4. Concerning the incorporeal and permanent nature of Angels Mr. Hobbes supposeth them as phantasms in dreams or pictures in a looking-glass 55. c. Whâ—t Spirit and Angel signifie according to Mr. Hobbes at large 56 57. Against Mr. Hobbes that the being of Angels and Spirits may be proved from natural reasoning and the old Testament 58. Against Mr. Hobbes that Religion ariseth not from tales publickly allowed 50. Of Cardan and his Genius ibid. Concerning Witches Sybills Oracles that they ceased not as Mr. Hobbes saith at Christs coming Concerning Michael Nostredamus 61 62. Against Mr. Hobbes that the Angels sent to Abraham and Lot were not meer apparitions 65. That Christ was not tempted as Mr. Hobbes saith in a Vision ibid. Scultetus's mistake of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr. Hobbes his of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ibid. That the N. T. asserteth the existence of Angels â—piscopius mistake concerning Christ appearing aâ— a meer Spectre to the Disciples 66 67. Mr. Hobbes late confession of Angels as permanent â—nd substantial from the places in the N. T. Against Mr. Hobbes that the Scripture speaks of the creâ—tion of Angels 68 69. Of the â—ord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Col. 1. the reading of Irenaeus noted 70. Mr. Hobbes mistake about the word Ghost 71. Of his verses of the Peak ibid. Conclusion of the first dialogue 73. Beginning of the second dialogue Article 5. Concerning the Soul and perception in matter 75. According to Mr. Hobbes the Soul is the organized body in due moâ—ion and the Scripture meaneth by Soul bodily life 75 76. This refuted Why blood called the life not to be eaten 76. Mr. Hobbes hypothesis concerning sensation be putteth
Charity in forgiving Injuries But it was not long before he learnt virtue from necessity and chose rather than to want or seem to shun an equal Companion to put himself into a more sociable humour After they had said those things which are of course amongst men in their salutations and made known to one another their names and qualities and purposes in this Journey they prepar'd themselves to enter into the Bath whilest they were in it in those intervalls wherein they abstain'd from swiming and plunging themselves they discours'd of many things relating to the Baths of the Antients and the Origin of Springs Amongst other sayings and enquiries of Mr. Hobbes he at last brake forth as it might seem abruptly into this Question What Proportion is observed in the Tuscan Order The Divine being well aware of those sudden leaps which the mind often taketh from one thing to another return'd first this Answer That the Tuscan Oâ—der with Base and Capital must be seven times its thickness and then replied also That he could follow the train of Mr. Hobbes 's imaginations as far as that Question having guessed within himself at the first hint of them which proof of his sagacity being desired he applied himself in this sort to the performance of his undertaking You first said he beheld the Bath in which we are you thence proceeded in your thoughts to the Baths of Rome Pagan amongst them you solicited the Fountain of Mars and thence your imagination passed to the rudeness of Nero who as Tacitus saith defiled those sacred Waters and violated the Ceremony of the place by entring with his polluted body immediately after one of his Riots Having thought of Nero his barbarous act of setting Rome on fire came next into your mind and thence yâ—u were led unto the motive which did in part induce him to burn the City that is to say because it seem'd unto him a rude heap of inartificial structures and might arise to a greater glory out of its ashes The thought of building occasioned that of the Fire Orders and so at length your fancy was guided to the Tuscan Mr. Hobbes acknowleged that he had conjectur'd aright and begged pardon for that slight Question protesting that whilest he â—â—sed it came from him unawares and being pleased with the quick ranging of his companions mind which he conceived to have been assisted by the study of his own doctrine concerning a Chain of Phantasmes he encreased in complacence When they had in this manner passed away an hour they stepped out of the Bath and having dried and cloathed themselves they sate down in expectation of such a Supper as the place afforded designing to make a meal like the Deipnosophistae and rather to reason than to drink profoundly But in this innocent intention they were interrupted by the disturbance arising from a little quarrell in which some of the ruder people in the house were for a short time engaged At this Mr. Hobbs seem'd much concern'd though he was at some distance from the persons For a while he was not composed but related it once or twice as to himself with a low and carefull tone how Sextuâ— Rostius was murthered after Supper by the Balneae Palatinae Of such generall extent is that Remark of Cicero in relation to Epicurus the Atheist of whom he observed that he of all men dreaded most those things which he contemned Death and the Gods But Mr. Hobbes having in a short space recovered himself he was willing to enter with the Ecclesiastick into a serious Discourse and to examine and account for such Doctrines in his Books as were usually accused not only of error but likewise of downright irreligion And for the more convenient managing of this Dialogue the Divine addressed himself to Mr. Hobbes to this purpose Student Before we engage in any Dispute I am desirous to deal plainly with you in reference to some things which may obstruct our design and I hope you will not interpret for contempt my ordinary liberty of conversation You have been represented to the world as a person very inconversible and as an imperious dictator of the principles of vice and impatient of all dispute and contradiction It hath been said that you will be very angry with all men that will not preseâ—tly submit to your dictates and that for advancing the reputation of your own skill you care not what unworthy reflexions you cast on others Monsieur Descartes hath written it to the confident Mersennus and it is now publish'd to all the world that he esteem'd it the better for himself that he had not any commerce with you as also that if you were of such an humour as he imagined and had such designs as he believed you had it would be impossible for him and you to have any communication without becoming enemies You are thought in diâ—pute to use the Scripâ—ure with irreverence and you have in a scoff menâ—ion'd the Focus of the Parabola of Dives and Laâ—â—rus I am ashamed of that humour in Descartes who hearing that Monsieur Petit had a little relish'd his Meditations said he wâ—s well pleased adding also that there was joy in Heaven for one sinner that converted If you appear morose wedded to your opinion and profane if you endeavour to enervate any Arâ—icle of moment in our Faith you must expect either to be left alone or to undergo the effects of a just indignation I applaud in others and I labour after a mastery of passion in my self but when the honour of Religion is concern'd it is my judgement not to suppress my warrantable zeal and I cannot value such a moderate man as in a worthy cause is neither hot nor cold Mr. Hobbes For the morosity and peevishness which I am charged with all that know me familiarly know 't is a false accusation But it is meant it may be only towards those that argue against my opinion but neither is that true When vain and ignorant persons unknown to me before come to me on purpose to argue with me and to extort applause for their foolish opinions and missing of their end fall into undiscreet and uncivill expressions and then appear not very well contented 't is not my morosity but their vanity that should be blamed For Descartes he was moved without cause being jealous that I should supplant him in his Principles of Philosophy That fear was groundless for I differed much from him especially in the explication of sense by motion Let any man read Descartes he shall find that he attributeth no motion at all to the object of sense but an inclination to action which inclination no man can imagine what it meaneth Touching the holy Scriptures I am so far from irreverence towards them that I have great regard to the Articles and Decrees of our Church suspending my sentence where the Church hath not determined Stâ—d It would be much
satisfaction to find all this in the sequel of our Discourse confirmed to me by experience But whatsoever your behaviour is like to be I cannot but fear having been conversant in your Leviathan that your opinions will deserve reproof I have sometimes heard the substance of them comprized in twelve Articles which sound harshly to men profeâ—â—ing Christianity and they were delivered under the Title of the Hobbist's Creed in such phrase and order as followeth I believe that God is Almighty matter that in him there are three Persons he having been thrice represented on earth that it is to be decided by the Civil Power whether he created all things else that Angels are not Incorporeal substances those words implying a contradiction but preternatural impreâ—â—â—ons on the brain of man that the Soul of man is the temperament of his Body that the Liberty of Will in that Soul is physically necessary that the prime â—aw of nature in the soul of man is that of self-Love that the Law of the Civil Sovereign is the obliging Rule of good and evil just and unjust that the Books of the Old and New Testament are made Canon and Law by the Civil Powers that whatsoever is written in these Books may lawfully be denied even upon oath after the laudable doctrine and practice of the Gnosticks in times of persecution when men shall be urged by the menaces of Authority that Hell is a tolerable condition of life for a few years upon earth to begin at the general Resurrection and that Heaven is a blessed estate of good men like that of Adam beâ—ore his fall beginning at the general Resurrection to be from thenceforth eternal upon Earth in the Holy-Land These Articles as they are double in their number so do they a thousand times exceed in mischievous error those six so properly called bloody ones in the dayes of King Henry the eighth Nay Sir I beseech you set not so uneasily neither prepare to vent your passion for if it shall appear in the pursuit of this disputation that this charge which is now drawn up is false I will not persist in it but be zealous in moving all your slanderers to lay themselves at those Feet of yours at which as you your self have written so very many of our English Gentry have with excellent effect sate for instruction At present I desire to take no other advantage from that presumed Creed than may be derived from the method in which the Articles of it are propounded as also from the particular subjects contained in them without any forestalling assent or dissent of mind For from thence we may fitly borrow both the Heads and the Order of such a discourse as will lead us without confusion throughout all those Opinions with which you are said to have debauched Religion Let us then take our beginning from the first Article that fundamental principle which being removed all real Religion falls to the ground that is to say the Existence of a God Are you then convinced that God is Mr. Hobbs I am For the effects we acknowledge naturally do include a Power of their producing before they were produced and that Power presupposeth something Existent that hath such Power and the thing so existing with power to produce if it were not eternal must needs have been produced by somewhat before it and that again by somewhat else before that till we come to an eternal that is to say the First Power of all Powers and â—â—rst Cause of all Causes and this is it which all men conceive by the name of God Stud. By this argument unwary men may be perhaps deceived into a good opinion of your Philosophy as if by the aids of it you were no weak defender of natural Religion but such as with due attention search your Books they cannot miss a Key wherewith they may decypher those mysterious words and shew that in their true and proper meaning they undermine Religion in stead of laying the ground-work of it Des-Cartes in an Epistle to Father Mersennus makes mention though with much neglect of your opinion concerning a Corporeal God this it seems you had broached in a studied Letter which passed through divers hands about that time when All things Sacred began to be most rudely invaded to wit the commencement of our Civil Wars And in diver Books since that time published you have often insinuated and sometimes directly asserted that whatsoever existeth is material Seing then it is absurd to say that Matter can create Matter it followeth that the effects you speak of in your argument are not to be understood of the very Essences of bodies which in your Book de Corpore you conceive to be neither generated nor destroyed but of those various changes which by motion are caused in nature your sense then amounteth to this impious assertion that in the chain of natural causes subordinate to each other that portion of matter which in one rank of causes and effects for you admit of an eternal cause or of causes being it self eternally moved gave the first impulse to another body which also moved the neighboring Body so forward in many links of succession 'till the motion arrived at any effect which we take notice of is to be called God In the like sense the Atheist Vaninus called nature the Queen and Goddesse of Mortals being as saith a learned Writer a sottish Priest of the said Goddess and also a most infamous sacrifice Mr. Hobbes This principle that God is not incorporeal is the doctrin which I have sometimes written and when occasion serves maintain I say therefore that the world I mean not the Earth only that denominates the lovers of it worldly men but the Universe that is the whole Mass of all things that are is corporeal that is to say body and hath the dimensions of magnitude namely length breadth and depth also every part of body is likewise body and hath the like dimensions consequently every part of the universe is body that which is not body is no part of the â—niverse and because the universe iâ— all that which is no part of it is nothing and consequently no where nor do's it follow from hence that Spirits are nothing for they have dimensions and are therefore really bodies though that name in common speech be given to such bodies only as are visible or palpable that is that have some degree of opacity But for Spirits they call them incorporeal which is a name of more honor and may therefore with more piety be attributed to God himself in whom we consider not what attribute expresseth best his nature which is incomprehensible but what best expresseth our desire to honor him Stud. If every part of body be body not only â—s to us but in it self there seemeth to be such an inexhaustibleness in the least atome as will render it as infinite as the whole Mass of the
Science For it is with the mysteries of our Religion as with wholesome Pills for the sick which swallowed whole have the virtue to cure but chewed are for the most part cast up again without effect Stud. The danger in my opinion ariseth not from the mastication of the Physic but from the indisposed Stomach and Palate of the Patient to whose health Religion conduceth more when it is relished by an uninfected Judgment in the particular accounts of it than when it is taken in the lump by an implicit faith which is a way agreeable not to grown men but to children in understanding whom we cannot satisfie and must not distast But because you seem not willing to intrude further into this mystery of the God-head considered in its self and persons which yet as you would make it is no more a mystery than if his Majesty should be called one Sovereign with three persons being represented by three successive Lord Lieutenants of Ireland let us descend to the consideration of the Godhead in its outward works in which perhaps we may have surer footing seeing Phylosophers unassisted by Revelation have discoursed much upon Our third Head the Creation of the World Mr. Hobbes The questions about the magnitude of the World whether it be finite or infinite or concerning its duration whether it had a beginning or be eternal are not to be determined by Phylosophers Whatsoever we know that are men we learn it from our phantasms and of infinite whether magnitude or time there is no phantasm at all so that it is impossible either for a man or any other creature to have any conception of infinite Stud. You prove not here that a man can have no conception but only that he can have no image of an infinite Cause whereas it ha's been already shewn may hereafter be evâ—â—ced from the immateriality of Mans Soul that all conceptionâ— and Ideas are not phantasms or arise not from them But whilst you plead the difficulty of conceiving an eternal being in reference to the Creation you elsewhere admit of an Idea difficult enough for you can feign in your mind that a point may swell to a great figure such as that of Man and this you say is the only Ideâ— which we have at the naming of Creator and that such a figure may again contract it self into the narrowness of a point hereby you admit of a natural phantasm of Creation out of nothing as also of re-annihilation for all the supposed points besides that first which is just commensurate to so much space can neither arise out of that one nor shrink into it and whereaâ— you add that you cannot comprehend in your mind how this may poâ—â—ibly be done in nature of which before you pranted a phantasm which ariseth from real impulse if all be Body it is as much as if you had said you can and you cannot comprehend it And I cannot but here admire it in a man who pretends to a consistency with himself that you should allow the above said phantasm and yet reprehend it as principle void of sense and which a man at the first hearing whether Geometrician or not Geometriciam must abhorr the which notwithstanding the learned Lord Bacon did embrace that the same Body without adding to it or taking from it is sometimes greater and sometimes lesse But to return to the conception of an eternal Cause though it be not possible to have an Image of God yet it is easie by the help of Reason from the Images of things we see to climb by degrees above the visible World to the eternal Creator of it Curiosity or love of the knowledge of Causes doe's draw a man as you will grant from consideration of the effect to seek the Cause and again the cause of that Cause till of necessity he must come to this thought at last that there is some cause whereof there is no former cause but is Eternal and is called God Mr. Hobbes Though a man may from some effect proceed to the immediate cause thereof and from that to a more remote Cause and so ascend continually by right ratiocination from cause to Cause yet he will not be able to proceed eternally but wearied will at last give over without knowing whether it were possible for him to proceed to an end or not Stud. We are not as you imagine wearied in this assent of our Reason upon the several roundles of second causes to that which is eternal for we passe not through every single cause and effect but like those who search their pedigree no further than their great great Grand-Father yet say they at first sprung from Adam we view some more immediate causes and effects and consider that there is the like reason of dependency in the rest and thence as it were leap forward unto the top of this Iacob's Ladder and arrive aâ— the acknowledgment of an eternal immovable Mover Mr. Hobbes Though from this that nothing can move it self it may rightly be inferred that there was some first eternal Movent yet 〈◊〉 can never be inferred though some use to make such inference that that Movent was eternally immoveable but rather eternally moved for as it is true that nothing is moved by it self so is aâ— true also that nothing is moved but by that which is already moved Stud. Here you proceed not with such consistence and scrupulous ratiocination as becometh a Phylosopher for if nothing be moved by it self then to say an eternal Mover is moved is to say that that Eternal is not Eternal for there is something presupposed to give it motion and another thing foregoing and causing that motion and so on in infinitum Yet you acknowledge in your Book a first Power of all Powers but at the present your reasoning is connected with your beloved notion oâ— a corporeal Universe For Matter can never move but by that which is moved and so forward not to an eternal Cause but in an endless Circle which yet in some part must have had a beginning for here the question will return how came the sluggish Matter which cannot help it self to have motion at first imparted to it if there were not an eternal incorporeal self-moving mind wherefore you are again involved in the condemnation of the Epicureans of whom Cicero in his first De Finibus ha's left this pertinent observation There being two things to be inquired after in the nature of things the one what the Matter is out of which every thing is made the other what is the force or motion which doth every thing the Epicureans have reasoned concerning Matter but the efficient Power is a part of Phylosophy which they have left untilled So little of Reason in this Article of the Creation is on the side of some men who would monopolize that honorable name Mr. Hobbes Natural Reason is not so much concerned in this question because so
to his own minde but in order to the Laws of his Country that action is not his but his Soveraigns nor is it he that in this case denyeth Christ before men but his Governour and the Law of his Country Stud. Instead of shewing the consistencie of your Doctrine with our Saviour's words you tacitly accuse them either of impertinency or ill advice For you make him to speak to this effect Persecutions will arise but be willing to be treated like your Master a man of sufferings and acquainted with grief and fear not the faces and menaces of men but publish in the openest manner unto the World such Doctrines as you hear in private whilst you sit at my feet And do not so fear those who persecute you as to save your bodily life by the renouncing or suppressing of my Doctrine but stand in aw of me whom if ye disobey ye forfeit life eternal And remember that there is a God who in such perilous times will take care of you If therefore you will own and publish my Faith I will own you as my loyal Subjects and make you happy in my Kingdom if you will renounce my Faith for fear of men I will not take notice of you as appertaining to me when you shall stand in the greatest need of protection But though I have said all this yet upon second thoughts it seemeth reasonable that I excuse you and condemn such bloudy Powers as shall by persecution compel you to blaspheme 'T is they who force open your mouths and move your tongues and form the breath and renounce me but you are all the time very sound Believers Believers in your hearts And therefore if you deny me before such powers I will transfer the blame on them So wretched is your Paraphrase that it overthroweth the plainest and often-reapted letter of the Text. But supposing that our Saviour had not delivered himself thus expresly against your Doctrine how would you have reconcil'd your gross dissimulation with that sincerity which the Searcher of the hearts requireth Mr. Hobbes If any man shall accuse this Doctrine as repugnant to true and unfeigned Christianity I ask him in case there should be a subject in any Christian Common-wealth that should be inwardly in his heart of the Mahometan Religion whether if his Soveraign command him to be present at the Divine-service of the Christian Church and that on pain of death he think that Mahometan obliged in conscience to suffer death for that Cause rather then to obey that command of his lawful Prince If he say he ought rather to suffer death then he authorizeth all private men to disobey their Princes in maintainance of their Religion true or false If he say he ought to be obedient then he alloweth to himself that which he denyeth to another Stud. In this reply which toucheth not the proposed difficulty you run out into two absurd suppositions First that a Christian Magistrate sheddeth the bloud of an Heathen for not frequenting the Christian Assemblies next that there is a parity of reason in the persecution of a Christian and of a Mahometan and that the Alcoran may as much oblige the Conscience as the Testament of our Lord. But I must again ask you what you will say of all those Martyrs we read of in the History of the Church I hope you will not say that they have needlesly cast away their lives Their bloud hath been more truely the seed of the Christian Church then the opinion of Ghosts Ignorance of second causes Devotion towards what men fear and taking of things casual for Prognosticks have ever been as you affirm the seeds of natural Religion which is generated out of the inquisitive temper of men who by observing any excellent effect are naturally led to search out the cause and so proceed to the first Original The Martyrs I say did under Christ preserve the Christian Faith which if it had not been professed with the mouth would have dy'd away as a spark where no breath doth cherish it Their memory is precious in the Church of God and their names will be had in everlasting remembrance They have been thought to have the priviledge of rising first and in that sence to have a part in the first Resurrection The Christians anciently kept their Assemblies at their Monuments and the Church of Alexandria beginneth its account at the Aera of holy Martyrs And yet you seem to disrespect them as imprudent Zealots and to think their bloud was but so much water spilt upon the ground a rash and useless effect Mr. Hobbes For answer hereunto we are to distinguish the persons that have been for that Cause put to death whereof some have received a Calling to preach and profess the Kingdom of Christ openly others have had no such Calling nor more has been required of them then their own Faith The former sort if they have been put to death for bearing witness to this point that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead were true Martyrs for a Martyr is to give the true definition of the word a witness of the Resurrection of Jesus the Messiah which none can be but those that conversed with him on earth and saw him after he was risen for a witness must have seen what he testifieth or else his testimony is not good And this is manifest from Acts 1.21 22. of these men which have companyed with us-must one be a Martyr that is a Witness with us of his Resurrection Where we may observe that he which is to be a witness of the truth of the Resurrection of Christ must be one of his Original Disciples whereas they which were not so can witness no more but that their Antecessors said it and are therefore but witnesses of other mens Testimony and are but second Martyrs or Martyrs of Christs witnesses Stud. By this answer wherein you approve of the Martyrdom of the Apostles you grant unto me what I contend for and contradict your former doctrine For if the Apostles drawing temporal deaths upon themselves by preaching the Gospel when they were enjoyned to desist by the Civil Powers are to be justified by us and honour'd for such resistance unto bloud then there was given to them a Superiour Law by Christ by the vertue of which higher obligation they were free from active duty to the Civil Powers otherwise if without a Law they had opposed the present Governours they had been pernicious Rebels and not honourable Defenders of the Faith What you add concerning the word Martyr is a weak nicety of Grammar upon which the stress of this Cause doth not depend For the Question is not whether no man be properly call'd a Witness but an eye-witness or he who beareth testimony of report received at second or third hand but whether at any distance of time a man may not have sufficient ground to believe the Gospel and whether after