circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
there_o to_o sit_v so_o we_o place_v not_o the_o supremacy_n among_o the_o jew_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o which_o be_v there_o seat_v but_o because_o our_o reverend_a brother_n in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o this_o 16_o the_o objection_n bring_v in_o this_o particular_a of_o jerusalem_n supremacy_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n with_o other_o say_v therefore_o i_o conceive_v he_o intend_v not_o we_o therein_o but_o some_o body_n else_o and_o therefore_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o next_o wherein_n ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n vii_o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v in_o his_o page_n 422._o he_o propound_v a_o 19_o the_o objection_n to_o this_o effect_n if_o the_o government_n of_o consociate_v church_n be_v warrant_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n than_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v common_a to_o we_o in_o civil_a as_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o every_o city_n govern_v with_o ruler_n within_o itself_o must_v be_v subordinate_a to_o a_o class_n of_o many_o city_n and_o that_o class_n to_o a_o national_n meet_v of_o all_o the_o city_n and_o the_o national_n government_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a or_o oecumenicke_n civil_a court_n and_o because_o by_o the_o same_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o controversy_n lest_o appeal_v shall_v be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la it_o must_v be_v prove_v that_o this_o supremacy_n lie_v not_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n he_o cit_v mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o in_o page_n 16_o and_o page_z 10_o of_o the_o answer_n as_o author_n of_o this_o last_o bassis_fw-la in_o the_o oâ—ectjection_n answ_n it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n allege_v we_o speak_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n as_o here_o be_v report_v for_o we_o there_o suppose_v it_o to_o be_v clear_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o cause_n and_o that_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v which_o we_o account_v the_o very_a thing_n in_o question_n we_o say_v the_o usefulness_n and_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o not_o a_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o to_o this_o purpose_n we_o have_v write_v in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n the_o sum_n whereof_o be_v this_o much_o that_o though_o the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v grant_v yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n in_o matter_n of_o judicature_n be_v not_o conclude_v thereby_o now_o what_o do_v our_o reverend_a brother_n return_v in_o his_o answer_n do_v he_o prove_v the_o contrary_a to_o what_o be_v here_o affirm_v by_o we_o do_v he_o clear_v it_o sufficient_o that_o if_o it_o be_v once_o grant_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n must_v inevitable_o follow_v i_o conceive_v the_o necessity_n of_o this_o consequence_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v if_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v sufficient_o answer_v but_o do_v our_o brother_n clear_v this_o or_o do_v he_o so_o much_o as_o once_o attempt_v the_o clear_n thereof_o sure_o to_o speak_v free_o what_o i_o find_v i_o find_v nothing_o that_o look_v that_o way_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o wonder_v why_o our_o opinion_n shall_v be_v allege_v in_o this_o objection_n and_o so_o his_o reader_n be_v lead_v into_o expectation_n of_o some_o sufficient_a answer_n thereto_o and_o then_o the_o answer_n which_o he_o return_v to_o be_v take_v up_o in_o other_o matter_n our_o opinion_n propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o in_o his_o answer_n leave_v untouched_a if_o that_o say_n of_o we_o be_v not_o sound_a why_o do_v he_o not_o return_v some_o answer_n if_o it_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a why_o do_v he_o make_v a_o objection_n of_o it_o and_o so_o breed_v a_o apprehension_n in_o weak_a reader_n of_o its_o unsoundnesse_n and_o put_v they_o in_o hope_n of_o a_o confutation_n when_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v perform_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n to_o consider_v what_o this_o do_v argue_v nevertheless_o let_v we_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o do_v return_v for_o answer_n page_n 423._o first_o he_o say_v appeal_v be_v warrant_v by_o the_o counsel_n which_o jethro_n give_v to_o moses_n can_v but_o be_v natural_a answ_n suppose_v this_o be_v so_o what_o can_v there_o be_v conclude_v hence_o that_o make_v against_o we_o can_v appeal_n be_v natural_a but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n must_v needs_o follow_v if_o there_o must_v be_v a_o high_a must_v it_o needs_o be_v yield_v that_o the_o synod_n and_o not_o the_o congregation_n be_v that_o high_a i_o conceive_v this_o need_v not_o to_o be_v yield_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o appeal_v be_v natural_a i_o see_v not_o what_o be_v gain_v thereby_o again_o he_o say_v god_n have_v appoint_v that_o the_o supremacy_n shall_v lie_v within_o the_o bound_n of_o every_o free_a monarchy_n or_o state_n so_o that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o any_o ecumenical_a or_o catholic_a civil_a church_n for_o that_o be_v against_o the_o independent_a power_n that_o god_n have_v give_v to_o state_n answ_n let_v this_o be_v grant_v also_o and_o be_v we_o not_o still_o where_o we_o be_v before_o be_v there_o in_o this_o any_o thing_n at_o all_o that_o do_v make_v for_o the_o removal_n of_o our_o opinion_n as_o himself_o have_v see_v it_o down_o in_o his_o objection_n we_o may_v true_o say_v we_o see_v it_o not_o no_o nor_o in_o that_o which_o do_v follow_v viz._n but_o in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o god_n have_v appoint_v no_o vissible_a monarchy_n in_o his_o church_n nor_o no_o such_o independency_n of_o policy_n within_o a_o congregation_n classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n answ_n for_o that_o which_o be_v say_v of_o a_o visible_a monarchy_n in_o the_o church_n i_o confess_v it_o be_v true_a god_n have_v appoint_v none_o such_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o word_n since_o they_o contain_v a_o express_a denial_n of_o the_o supremacy_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicature_n except_o it_o be_v the_o general_a council_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v how_o our_o tenent_n afore_o express_v be_v disprove_v or_o how_o the_o necessity_n of_o that_o consequence_n afore_o mention_v be_v at_o all_o clear_v hereby_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o congregation_n nor_o yet_o in_o any_o synod_n except_o it_o be_v the_o ecumenical_a do_v this_o prove_v that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v in_o synod_n and_o not_o in_o the_o congregation_n nothing_o less_o for_o how_o can_v our_o brother_n prove_v that_o it_o lie_v in_o the_o one_o and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o by_o say_v as_o here_o he_o do_v that_o indeed_o it_o lie_v in_o neither_o or_o how_o be_v that_o consequence_n make_v good_a that_o if_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a how_o be_v this_o i_o say_v make_v good_a by_o affirm_v that_o neither_o the_o congregation_n nor_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v it_o pass_v my_o understanding_n to_o conceive_v how_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n shall_v be_v the_o prove_v and_o clear_n thereof_o and_o yet_o except_o this_o be_v admit_v i_o know_v not_o how_o our_o apprehension_n in_o the_o matter_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v at_o all_o disprove_v for_o whereas_o we_o say_v appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n will_v not_o follow_v mr._n rutherford_n for_o the_o disprove_v of_o what_o we_o apprehend_v herein_o do_v bring_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n but_o only_o this_o that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v neither_o lie_n in_o the_o congregation_n nor_o in_o the_o synod_n which_o be_v no_o disprove_v of_o we_o all_o except_o as_o i_o say_v that_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n may_v suffice_v for_o the_o confirm_v and_o clear_n thereof_o for_o i_o conceive_v if_o we_o be_v disprove_v the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n must_v be_v prove_v
have_v take_v thing_n upon_o my_o report_n upon_o trust_n and_o partly_o that_o my_o candid_a and_o fair_a deal_n with_o the_o author_n who_o i_o have_v to_o do_v withal_o may_v the_o better_o appear_v for_o when_o a_o man_n word_n be_v not_o keep_v but_o forsake_v and_o other_o substitute_v in_o their_o place_n his_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v soon_o be_v mistake_v and_o represent_v amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n which_o be_v a_o practice_n that_o i_o have_v often_o see_v but_o never_o approve_v and_o therefore_o i_o have_v not_o use_v it_o for_o i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o wrong_v any_o man_n special_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_a as_o i_o take_v master_n rutherfurd_n to_o be_v by_o impute_v to_o he_o what_o he_o do_v not_o teach_v nor_o deliver_v and_o for_o this_o cause_n it_o be_v that_o i_o have_v usual_o transcribe_v and_o express_v his_o own_o word_n and_o by_o this_o mean_v my_o book_n be_v grow_v to_o the_o great_a bulk_n one_o thing_n more_o i_o will_v advertise_v the_o reader_n of_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v quick_o have_v do_v the_o figure_n from_o 185_o and_o so_o forward_o note_v the_o number_n of_o the_o page_n in_o master_n rutherfurd_n his_o treatise_n be_v set_v down_o twice_o therein_o once_o in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o again_o after_o the_o page_n 484._o wherefore_o if_o any_o of_o these_o page_n be_v quote_v in_o this_o reply_n as_o some_o of_o they_o be_v if_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v allege_v be_v not_o find_v in_o the_o page_n that_o be_v name_v look_v for_o it_o in_o the_o other_o place_n of_o the_o book_n where_o be_v the_o same_o figure_n and_o there_o you_o may_v find_v it_o courteous_a reader_n study_v the_o truth_n in_o a_o way_n of_o piety_n and_o peace_n be_v zealous_a for_o it_o but_o lose_v not_o love_v to_o the_o saint_n beware_v when_o the_o world_n be_v fill_v with_o dispute_n about_o discipline_n that_o thou_o be_v not_o draw_v only_o to_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o main_a matter_n of_o doctrine_n be_v sure_a to_o practice_v and_o express_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o humility_n of_o mind_n mortification_n of_o thy_o own_o corruption_n faith_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o love_n to_o all_o his_o redeem_v and_o be_v not_o by_o any_o mean_v draw_v away_o from_o these_o thing_n which_o do_v so_o main_o conduce_v to_o thy_o salvation_n final_o as_o the_o holy_a ghost_n say_v phil._n 4._o 8_o 9_o whatsoever_o thing_n be_v true_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v honest_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v just_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v lovely_a pure_a and_o of_o good_a report_n if_o there_o be_v any_o virtue_n if_o there_o be_v any_o praise_n think_v on_o these_o thing_n and_o do_v they_o and_o the_o god_n of_o peace_n shall_v be_v with_o thou_o improve_v i_o pray_v such_o interest_n as_o thou_o have_v in_o god_n through_o the_o mediator_n by_o afford_v the_o help_n of_o thy_o prayer_n for_o i_o who_o be_o true_o desirous_a of_o thy_o salvation_n r._n m._n decemb._n 10._o 1646._o a_o table_n of_o the_o content_n of_o the_o ensue_a treatise_n chap._n 1._o of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr_n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o must_v not_o be_v appeal_n to_o general_n counsel_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v not_o yet_o deny_v page_n 2._o chap._n 2._o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advite_v and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v page_n 11._o chap._n 3._o of_o the_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 15._o chap._n 4._o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o page_n 21._o chap._n 5._o again_o of_o that_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n page_n 24._o chap._n 6._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n page_n 30._o chap._n 7._o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v page_n 39_o chap._n 8._o whether_o antioch_n acts._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n page_n 49._o chap._n 9_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o page_n 66._o chap._n 10._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a minestry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n page_n 75._o chap._n 11._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n page_n 93_o chap._n 12._o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr_n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congregation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_n or_o national_n council_n page_n 104._o chap._n 13._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o page_n 112._o chap._n 14._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v one_o church_n meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n etc._n etc._n do_v make_v for_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o for_o one_o only_a page_n 123._o chap._n 15._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n baynes_n whether_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 137._o chap._n 16._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o acts._n 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30._o do_v not_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 140._o chap._n 17._o whether_o or_o no_o liberty_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o people_n but_o woman_n must_v exercise_v the_o same_o as_o well_o as_o man_n and_o of_o the_o people_n liberty_n about_o ordination_n or_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n page_n 146._o chap._n 18._o of_o mr_n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n page_n 151._o chap._n 19_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o be_v do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n page_n 153._o chap._n 20._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o
society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o châ—se_v the_o seven_o deacon_n acts._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 159._o chap._n 21._o whether_o congregation_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o word_n mat._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n as_o contain_v a_o rule_n and_o remedy_n for_o all_o offence_n or_o at_o the_o least_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n and_o church_n member_n and_o if_o yea_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o a_o national_n church_n must_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o remedy_n as_o well_o as_o other_o and_o so_o have_v no_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o but_o be_v subject_n to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_n counsel_n which_o yet_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v deny_v page_n 164._o chap._n 22._o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_n synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_n covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n page_n 170._o chap._n 23._o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church-meeting_n only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n page_n 175._o chap._n 24_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o no_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church-officer_n page_n 180_o chap._n 25._o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o acts._n 6_o 2_o 3_o 4._o acts._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbeterie_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o before_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o as_o well_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v page_n 196._o chap._n 26._o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o this_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbytery_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbytery_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbytery_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n page_n 206._o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o there_o come_v forth_o a_o treatise_n against_o independency_n under_o the_o name_n of_o my_o reverend_n and_o learned_a brother_n mr._n charles_n herle_n the_o pastor_n of_o winwick_n in_o lancashire_n this_o treatise_n because_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v write_v with_o such_o a_o candid_a and_o peaceable_a spirit_n as_o may_v witness_v for_o its_o author_n that_o the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o therein_o be_v mere_o the_o disquisition_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o because_o the_o author_n thereof_o be_v many_o year_n ago_o of_o my_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n tompsons_n acquaintance_n and_o i_o therefore_o we_o think_v it_o may_v not_o be_v in_o vain_a if_o we_o shall_v love_o communicate_v to_o the_o learned_a author_n such_o apprehension_n of_o we_o whereby_o we_o be_v detain_v from_o concur_v with_o his_o judgement_n in_o the_o principal_a question_n dispute_v in_o the_o say_a treatise_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o same_o year_n there_o come_v forth_o a_o small_a script_n under_o our_o name_n in_o way_n of_o a_o brotherly_a answer_n to_o that_o his_o love_a and_o learned_a treatise_n against_o this_o answer_n mr._n samuel_n rutherford_n a_o learned_a writer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n have_v allege_v and_o publish_v many_o objection_n exception_n and_o answer_n in_o his_o book_n entitle_v the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n i_o may_v call_v they_o many_o because_o in_o that_o treatise_n of_o his_o there_o be_v no_o less_o than_o 24_o or_o 25_o several_a place_n wherein_o he_o bring_v up_o by_o name_n the_o say_a answer_n dispute_v against_o sundry_a passage_n therein_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o sound_a which_o passage_n if_o they_o be_v indeed_o erroneous_a and_o unsound_a be_v a_o great_a many_o to_o be_v contain_v and_o find_v in_o so_o small_a a_o work_n the_o whole_a book_n as_o it_o be_v now_o print_v contain_v in_o it_o 30._o leaf_n so_o that_o the_o leaf_n in_o the_o book_n be_v not_o much_o more_o than_o the_o place_n therein_o which_o this_o learned_a writer_n do_v object_n against_o which_o be_v consider_v i_o think_v it_o therefore_o needful_a to_o peruse_v and_o weigh_v as_o the_o lord_n shall_v help_v the_o several_a place_n of_o his_o forementioned_a treatise_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o say_a answer_n and_o have_v so_o do_v i_o here_o present_a my_o apprehension_n to_o public_a view_n leave_v the_o prudent_a and_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v and_o judge_v whether_o this_o reverend_a and_o learned_a brother_n have_v sufficient_o overthrow_v or_o weak'n_v the_o say_a answer_n or_o whether_o the_o same_o do_v not_o still_o remain_v agreeable_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o truth_n notwithstanding_o his_o objection_n against_o the_o same_o or_o such_o answer_n as_o he_o do_v return_v to_o several_a passage_n therein_o chap._n i._n of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o may_v not_o be_v appeal_v to_o general_a council_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v yet_o deny_v first_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 315._o for_o that_o be_v the_o first_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v he_o meddle_v with_o the_o answer_n speak_v of_o doubt_n concern_v math._n 18._o 17._o tell_v the_o church_n in_o a_o 9_o the_o objection_n about_o that_o scripture_n beside_o other_o particular_n he_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o appeal_v to_o a_o high_a judicature_n because_o the_o inferior_a may_v err_v because_o all_o above_o a_o congregation_n be_v court_n which_o may_v err_v presbytery_n provincial_n national_n the_o universal_a council_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v and_o then_o for_o author_n of_o this_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v cap._n 2._o pag._n 13_o 14._o answ_n when_o he_o be_v discourse_v of_o doubt_n concern_v that_o scripture_n math_n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v bring_v those_o word_n of_o i_o at_o such_o a_o time_n or_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n for_o though_o i_o do_v acknowledge_v that_o i_o write_v the_o word_n which_o he_o have_v set_v down_o or_o such_o like_a in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v by_o i_o for_o such_o purpose_n as_o he_o do_v report_n viz._n for_o the_o clear_n of_o doubt_n concern_v the_o meaning_n of_o math._n 18_o 17._o that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o the_o chapter_n and_o page_n allege_v will_v find_v that_o i_o do_v not_o there_o meddle_v at_o all_o
such_o appeal_v because_o such_o assembly_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o many_o eye_n do_v see_v more_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n then_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o great_a assembly_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v the_o most_o eye_n do_v of_o all_o other_o most_v seldom_o err_v and_o so_o to_o they_o there_o must_v be_v the_o most_o appeal_v for_o the_o learned_a author_n well_o know_v à _fw-la quatenùs_fw-la ad_fw-la omniâ—_n valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o reason_n of_o appeal_v lie_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o apprehension_n in_o the_o rareness_n and_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v in_o such_o assembly_n to_o who_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v lie_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n of_o eye_n in_o such_o assembly_n it_o must_v needs_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o universal_a or_o general_a council_n as_o have_v in_o they_o the_o most_o eye_n be_v the_o assembly_n that_o do_v most_o seldom_o err_v and_o so_o unâ—o_v they_o there_o must_v be_v most_o appeal_v which_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o classical_a 〈◊〉_d and_o national_n synod_n be_v all_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v and_o striâ—t_v of_o 〈◊〉_d of_o â—â—â—â—diction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o particular_a congregation_n the_o synod_n by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o general_a council_n as_o to_o those_o that_o do_v raâ—iùs_fw-la câ—rare_fw-la aswell_o as_o the_o 〈…〉_z appeal_v unto_o the_o synod_n and_o so_o thera_fw-la must_v be_v no_o entireness_n of_o 〈…〉_z only_o in_o the_o general_a council_n but_o from_o all_o other_o synod_n there_o must_v 〈◊〉_d liberty_n of_o appeal_v aswell_o as_o from_o the_o congregation_n this_o consequence_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v do_v unavoidable_o follow_v upon_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v undowne_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o so_o ouâ—_n brethren_n by_o this_o mean_n have_v spin_v a_o fine_a thread_n draw_v forth_o a_o conclusion_n which_o be_v every_o what_o as_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o own_o cause_n as_o to_o we_o if_o any_o ask_v why_o may_v not_o this_o consequence_n be_v own_v why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o all_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n except_o only_o the_o general_a council_n the_o answer_n be_v thâ—t_v we_o may_v not_o so_o say_v because_o then_o cause_n will_v be_v too_o long_o depend_v aâ—ore_o they_o can_v come_v to_o issue_n yea_o perhaps_o will_v never_o come_v to_o issue_v as_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v for_o by_o this_o rule_n they_o may_v by_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n be_v protract_v until_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o general_a council_n to_o be_v determine_v there_o now_o as_o there_o have_v not_o be_v any_o such_o council_n for_o many_o age_n bypass_a so_o it_o be_v very_o uncertain_a when_o there_o will_v be_v one_o assemble_v whether_o ever_o or_o never_o whilst_o this_o world_n stand_v but_o we_o think_v christ_n jesus_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o his_o church_n then_o so_o and_o have_v not_o appoint_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n but_o that_o cause_n may_v be_v determine_v afore_o any_o general_a council_n can_v be_v assemble_v beside_o if_o such_o assembly_n may_v be_v frequent_o attain_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o clear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v assemble_v they_o have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o but_o only_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n remain_v in_o some_o other_o assembly_n sure_o it_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n thus_o teach_v express_o for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o due_a right_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 482._o and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o page_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o next_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n math._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n he_o say_v thus_o because_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_n church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v a_o ordinary_a communion_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n church_n by_o which_o saying_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o count_v christ_n remedy_n to_o censure_n scandal_n not_o needful_a in_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o and_o he_o serious_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v that_o such_o a_o council_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o to_o censure_v scandal_n which_o be_v so_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o scandal_n must_v be_v censure_v and_o cause_n end_v somewhere_o else_o afore_o they_o can_v come_v 〈◊〉_d such_o end_n to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o then_o how_o can_v that_o stand_v which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n to_o synod_n in_o this_o because_o they_o do_v rariùs_fw-la errare_fw-la more_fw-mi seldom_o err_v than_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o have_v many_o eye_n do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n for_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o appliable_a to_o the_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o notwithstanding_o he_o deny_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o if_o they_o hâ—ve_v no_o such_o power_n there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o such_o purpose_n and_o end_n and_o how_o these_o thing_n can_v stand_v together_o that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v to_o such_o or_o such_o assemly_n do_v he_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v as_o have_v many_o eye_n and_o yet_o that_o to_o general_a council_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o appeal_v at_o all_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o of_o all_o other_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o â—ound_v in_o they_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v if_o any_o shall_v say_v that_o as_o mr._n rutheâ—ford_n do_v make_v that_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v so_o he_o do_v also_o hold_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n even_o in_o general_a council_n and_o shall_v therefore_o doubt_v whether_o i_o do_v true_o report_v he_o 〈◊〉_d touch_v the_o contrary_a i_o will_v wish_v no_o more_o favour_n of_o such_o a_o one_o but_o to_o peruse_v the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o allege_a and_o then_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v â—nd_v the_o word_n to_o be_v no_o otherwise_o but_o as_o i_o have_v set_v they_o down_o i_o know_v indeed_o there_o be_v some_o place_n in_o he_o which_o do_v look_v another_o way_n as_o that_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o invatâ—_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v that_o power_n which_o now_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o due_a right_n page_n 308._o and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v he_o see_v nothing_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o national_n church_n yea_o and_o further_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o general_a council_n at_o this_o dâ—y_n they_o may_v lawful_o in_o a_o juridical_a way_n so_o be_v his_o word_n do_v that_o to_o the_o faction_n of_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n which_o he_o say_v be_v excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o thâ—_n act._n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o say_v this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_n council_n these_o place_n i_o confess_v do_v seem_v to_o i_o not_o very_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o either_o afore_o allege_v for_o in_o the_o one_o he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v in_o general_a council_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v the_o former_a place_n and_o not_o these_o latter_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o in_o which_o former_a as_o i_o conceive_v he_o to_o hold_v the_o truth_n so_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n about_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n be_v much_o infirm_v thereby_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v take_v to_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v which_o be_v most_o
proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
even_o as_o a_o king_n ignorant_a of_o necessary_a civil_a duty_n can_v command_v they_o not_o because_o he_o want_v kingly_a power_n to_o command_v these_o civil_a thing_n for_o undeniable_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n in_o civil_a thing_n but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v in_o like_a sort_n though_o a_o church_n want_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o some_o particular_a question_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o church_n power_n to_o determine_v such_o question_n &_o to_o command_v obedience_n therein_o and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n they_o can_v in_o that_o state_n determine_v right_o because_o they_o will_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n therein_o not_o because_o they_o want_v church-power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n but_o because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o they_o again_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o p._n he_o tell_v we_o that_o christianity_n add_v no_o new_a fatherly_a power_n to_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a husband_n right_a to_o the_o husband_n once_o a_o heathen_a over_o his_o wife_n for_o a_o heathen_a father_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n as_o a_o christian_a father_n and_o a_o heathen_a husband_n a_o heathen_a master_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o as_o essential_o husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v the_o christian_a husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o say_v soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o particular_a question_n add_v no_o new_a church_n power_n to_o a_o christian_a church_n over_o their_o own_o member_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a church_n right_a over_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o for_o a_o church_n that_o want_v such_o knowledge_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o church_n invest_v with_o church_n power_n over_o her_o member_n as_o be_v another_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v the_o case_n be_v alike_o and_o if_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n do_v not_o give_v to_o a_o church_n their_o church-right_a in_o this_o or_o that_o question_n how_o can_v want_v of_o that_o knowledge_n deprive_v they_o of_o that_o right_a sure_o one_o will_v think_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n may_v do_v as_o much_o for_o the_o add_v of_o kingly_a right_n fatherly_a right_n husband_n right_a etc._n etc._n as_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a question_n for_o the_o add_v of_o church_n right_a &_o that_o the_o want_n of_o all_o christianity_n shall_v be_v as_o available_a for_o take_v away_o the_o kingly_a right_n the_o fatherly_a right_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o want_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a point_n for_o the_o take_z away_o of_o church-right_a and_o since_o we_o have_v our_o brother_n own_o testimony_n clear_a and_o full_a for_o the_o one_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o the_o case_n be_v so_o parallel_a and_o proportionable_a that_o the_o other_o be_v unavoidable_a i_o mean_v thus_o since_o in_o the_o one_o case_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n do_v not_o give_v power_n nor_o the_o want_n thereof_o take_v away_o the_o same_o by_o our_o brother_n own_o teach_n i_o know_v not_o how_o in_o the_o other_o case_n soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a question_n shall_v give_v power_n or_o right_n &_o want_v of_o such_o knowledge_n take_v away_o the_o same_o and_o so_o for_o antioch_n in_o particular_a if_o it_o be_v as_o our_o brother_n suppose_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o do_v hold_v against_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o church_n right_a which_o they_o have_v before_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o the_o truth_n this_o say_n i_o confess_v be_v very_o true_a but_o do_v not_o suffice_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o bring_v it_o viz._n to_o prove_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n or_o hold_v against_o the_o truth_n therein_o do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o church_n right_a to_o determine_v for_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v against_o that_o power_n in_o heathen_a king_n parent_n and_o husband_n to_o govern_v their_o subject_n child_n and_o wife_n which_o our_o brother_n as_o we_o hear_v afore_o have_v grant_v and_o teach_v for_o suppose_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o particular_a be_v it_o not_o clear_a that_o the_o king_n parent_n and_o husband_n mention_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o many_o more_o matter_n and_o it_o antioch_n do_v hereupon_o loose_v their_o right_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n â—he_v king_n and_o the_o other_o mention_a must_v likewise_o lose_v their_o right_n to_o govern_v their_o own_o subject_n and_o family_n for_o the_o lord_n give_v no_o right_a i_o hope_v to_o pagan_n against_o the_o truth_n no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v unto_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o reason_n be_v valid_a and_o strong_a in_o the_o one_o case_n and_o for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o our_o brother_n bring_v it_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v as_o strong_a in_o the_o other_o case_n also_o which_o shall_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o brother_n himself_o do_v teach_v in_o a_o word_n churches_n and_o antioch_n in_o particular_a have_v right_a to_o determine_v question_n and_o they_o ought_v to_o determine_v only_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n they_o have_v formal_o a_o right_a to_o determine_v and_o when_o their_o determination_n be_v according_a to_o truth_n than_o they_o will_v â—ind_v vi_o matâ—â—iâ—_n which_o else_o they_o will_v not_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v in_o fore_n humano_fw-la and_o if_o their_o determination_n be_v for_o matter_n agreeable_a to_o truth_n they_o will_v be_v ratify_v in_o foro_fw-la diuâ—â—o_fw-la but_o not_o else_o now_o our_o brother_n argue_v do_v seem_v to_o confound_v these_o two_o and_o because_o of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v free_o grant_v he_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o former_a which_o we_o think_v be_v not_o good_a reason_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_n do_v still_o think_v that_o though_o church_n ought_v to_o give_v out_o no_o determination_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o truth_n and_o that_o otherwise_o their_o determination_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o will_v not_o bind_v before_o god_n yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o may_v have_v right_a formal_o and_o in_o foro_n humano_fw-la to_o judge_n and_o to_o determine_v of_o such_o thing_n moreover_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v for_o true_a that_o antioch_n when_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o right_n to_o determine_v controversy_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o hereby_o much_o near_o to_o a_o issue_n unless_o it_o be_v determine_v withal_o who_o must_v be_v judge_n whether_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o no_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v be_v grant_v that_o they_o do_v not_o lose_v their_o right_n at_o all_o the_o question_n therefore_o still_o remain_v who_o have_v this_o ministerial_a power_n to_o judge_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o church_n antioch_n or_o any_o other_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o for_o it_o and_o unless_o this_o be_v clear_v we_o be_v but_o where_o we_o be_v before_o but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o end_n of_o this_o passage_n about_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n whether_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v controversy_n when_o ability_n fail_v or_o whether_o they_o do_v when_o lose_v that_o right_n i_o will_v here_o 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within_o itself_o either_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n with_o only_a three_o elder_n be_v no_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o it_o must_v have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n within_o itself_o beside_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_a church_n as_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v p._n 307._o it_o be_v then_o a_o marvel_n why_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v only_o three_o elder_n may_v not_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v last_o his_o word_n be_v express_v page_n 338._o where_o there_o be_v not_o many_o church_n consociate_v than_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n if_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n have_v not_o above_o three_o elder_n yet_o be_v not_o consociate_v with_o other_o church_n it_o may_v lawful_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o own_o grant_n for_o decide_v question_n that_o concern_v many_o church_n if_o they_o decide_v they_o no_o further_o but_o only_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o this_o be_v no_o put_v a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n but_o a_o meddle_v with_o matter_n only_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v concern_v themselves_o second_o he_o say_v all_o appeal_n without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n we_o condemn_v as_o the_o abuse_n of_o appeal_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v page_z 425._o answ_n if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_v be_v condemn_v why_o be_v we_o not_o tell_v what_o appeal_v they_o be_v that_o have_v the_o warrant_v of_o christ_n will_n and_o what_o appeal_v have_v not_o for_o such_o a_o general_a word_n aâ—_n this_o of_o the_o warrant_n of_o christ_n will_n without_o some_o further_a and_o more_o particular_a explication_n do_v leave_v the_o matter_n as_o dark_a as_o it_o be_v before_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o only_o such_o appeal_v be_v unwarrantable_a as_o be_v make_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v and_o that_o all_o other_o be_v warrantable_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o appeal_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o all_o other_o court_n except_o only_o from_o a_o general_a council_n be_v warrantable_a for_o who_o do_v certain_o know_v that_o a_o general_a council_n will_v never_o be_v and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o class_n 〈◊〉_d synod_n and_o the_o national_n church_n be_v all_o deprive_v of_o supremacy_n and_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n three_o he_o say_v antioch_n appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a as_o our_o brethren_n say_v be_v no_o judaize_v but_o that_o which_o paul_n and_o the_o apostle_n be_v guilty_a of_o as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n whether_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a or_o no_o as_o we_o have_v never_o affirm_v so_o much_o so_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v now_o to_o inquire_v but_o this_o i_o stand_v upon_o that_o no_o scripture_n do_v witness_v that_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n about_o which_o our_o question_n do_v lie_v if_o they_o do_v appeal_v to_o they_o for_o a_o doctrinal_a decision_n or_o determination_n of_o the_o question_n that_o nothing_o hinder_v our_o cause_n who_o do_v not_o deny_v such_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n in_o synod_n but_o their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v be_v prove_v last_o if_o this_o example_n of_o antioch_n do_v prove_v that_o there_o may_v be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n though_o those_o synod_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a then_o that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n be_v here_o confess_v to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n be_v as_o defective_a and_o burdensome_a in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o as_o then_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a at_o jerusalem_n be_v many_o mile_n distant_a from_o such_o as_o dwell_v in_o the_o further_a part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n and_o special_o from_o the_o proselyte_n that_o dwell_v in_o other_o country_n so_o here_o our_o author_n seem_v to_o yield_v that_o in_o these_o day_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o must_v or_o may_v be_v appeal_n to_o synod_n though_o they_o be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a i_o hope_v then_o if_o other_o blame_v our_o way_n for_o make_v the_o gospel_n as_o defective_a and_o improvident_a as_o the_o law_n or_o more_o defective_a than_o it_o yet_o this_o our_o brother_n will_v not_o do_v so_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_n will_v acknowledge_v for_o we_o and_o with_o we_o that_o the_o way_n which_o himself_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n four_o he_o say_v matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o answ_n this_o may_v be_v grant_v in_o a_o safe_a sense_n without_o any_o prejudice_n at_o all_o unto_o our_o cause_n for_o we_o be_v well_o content_a that_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v many_o they_o may_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o so_o that_o each_o congregation_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o deal_v in_o they_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o and_o thus_o you_o have_v all_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v bring_v against_o that_o passage_n of_o we_o wherein_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o our_o way_n but_o they_o that_o do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n instead_o whereof_o he_o be_v please_v to_o make_v we_o say_v that_o they_o do_v judaize_v but_o for_o eleer_v their_o way_n from_o that_o which_o we_o object_n against_o the_o same_o or_o for_o convince_a out_o way_n to_o be_v guilty_a thereof_o as_o by_o some_o have_v be_v object_v which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o four_o particular_n of_o his_o answer_n that_o do_v any_o thing_n avail_v to_o either_o of_o these_o for_o if_o a_o rash_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n have_v more_o evil_a in_o it_o then_o speedy_a end_n of_o controversy_n have_v good_a if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n be_v unlawful_a if_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a and_o if_o matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v end_v by_o many_o which_o four_o particular_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o answer_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o for_o i_o will_v glad_o apply_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o be_v there_o i_o say_v in_o all_o this_o that_o 〈◊〉_d convince_v our_o way_n to_o be_v more_o defective_a than_o the_o way_n under_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o do_v clear_v the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n from_o be_v true_o culpable_a thereof_o let_v all_o the_o evil_a that_o can_v be_v find_v in_o rash_a deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n be_v extend_v to_o the_o utmost_a and_o let_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o four_o particular_n be_v grant_v do_v all_o this_o sufficient_o clear_v it_o that_o the_o way_n which_o we_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o defective_a or_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n more_o perfect_a and_o excellent_a than_o the_o way_n that_o be_v use_v under_o the_o law_n if_o they_o do_v not_o amount_v to_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o they_o do_v not_o come_v up_o to_o clear_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n which_o for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v still_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v notwithstanding_o all_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v chap._n x._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a ministry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v our_o reverend_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o page_n 453_o 454._o where_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n he_o say_v it_o be_v object_v by_o we_o allege_v the_o answer_n page_n 6._o that_o if_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n by_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o the_o first_o congregation_n as_o jerusalem_n which_o do_v meet_v in_o solomon_n porch_n have_v once_o a_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o 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from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
do_v acknowledge_v it_o follow_v unavoidable_o thereupon_o that_o all_o congregationall_a church_n such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n and_o such_o as_o have_v none_o may_v exercise_v such_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v unto_o they_o all_o unless_o he_o will_v deny_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n which_o he_o free_o yield_v to_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o he_o must_v grant_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n unto_o they_o both_o because_o he_o grant_v it_o to_o the_o one_o upon_o this_o reason_n that_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v thereunto_o which_o reason_n if_o it_o agree_v to_o both_o how_o can_v iâ—_n be_v avoid_v but_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n must_v be_v in_o both_o and_o how_o can_v it_o be_v affirm_v or_o imagine_v that_o a_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n afore_o and_o have_v neighbour_n shall_v lose_v 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first_o for_o the_o performance_n of_o these_o thing_n mention_v be_v as_o compleâ—t_v in_o he_o notwithstanding_o this_o addition_n as_o it_o be_v before_o and_o not_o any_o whit_n abate_v nor_o impair_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o matter_n of_o order_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o pastor_n may_v be_v sufficient_o and_o complete_o perform_v by_o one_o pastor_n single_o which_o act_v of_o jurisdiction_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o own_o word_n in_o this_o case_n be_v these_o viz._n a_o single_a pastor_n may_v ministerial_o give_v out_o commandment_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o christ_n but_o he_o can_v himself_o censure_n or_o excommunicate_v the_o contravener_n of_o those_o commandment_n due_a right_n page_n 387._o and_o again_o page_n 387_o 388_o it_o be_v proper_a be_v act_n of_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a that_o they_o can_v be_v exercise_v by_o one_o alone_a but_o must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o society_n but_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n 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bring_v this_o instance_n and_o example_n from_o a_o pastor_n that_o have_v a_o pastoral_a power_n afore_o other_o pastor_n be_v add_v who_o by_o the_o addition_n of_o other_o have_v no_o less_o power_n than_o afore_o which_o example_n i_o conceive_v rather_o make_v against_o he_o then_o for_o he_o for_o say_v he_o page_z 456._o their_o pastoral_a power_n add_v to_o he_o be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a but_o not_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o therefore_o that_o the_o first_o pastor_n suffer_v loss_n by_o the_o addition_n of_o these_o three_o to_o he_o who_o say_v he_o will_v say_v this_o answ_n i_o know_v none_o that_o will_v say_v it_o but_o if_o their_o power_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o no_o way_n privative_a or_o destructive_a thereof_o then_o what_o power_n he_o have_v afore_o they_o be_v add_v the_o same_o he_o have_v still_o in_o as_o great_a measure_n as_o former_o and_o so_o his_o pastoral_n act_n be_v as_o perfect_v and_o valid_a as_o they_o be_v before_o now_o let_v the_o same_o be_v grant_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n congregation_n add_v and_o we_o have_v what_o we_o demand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o grant_v then_o though_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o pastor_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o the_o other_o pastor_n yet_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o congregation_n seem_v not_o so_o to_o the_o former_a congregation_n but_o rather_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o its_o power_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o example_n confirm_v our_o brother_n purpose_n or_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o example_n which_o he_o produce_v do_v make_v against_o himself_o sure_o if_o the_o power_n of_o these_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o destructive_a to_o the_o former_a pastor_n power_n but_o auxiliary_a thereto_o so_o that_o what_o power_n he_o have_v before_o the_o same_o he_o retain_v still_o and_o in_o the_o same_o measure_n than_o it_o must_v be_v so_o likewise_o in_o a_o congregation_n when_o neighbour_n congregation_n be_v add_v or_o else_o this_o example_n will_v not_o suit_n but_o make_v the_o example_n to_o agree_v and_o our_o cause_n be_v advantage_v thereby_o our_o brethren_n do_v conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n in_o its_o kind_n and_o essence_n to_o be_v monarchical_a so_o as_o if_o any_o power_n from_o consociate_v congregation_n be_v add_v thereunto_o the_o congregation_n power_n monarchical_a be_v diminish_v and_o the_o essence_n of_o it_o change_v answ_n the_o power_n of_o congregation_n we_o â—old_a to_o be_v ministerial_a as_o be_v delegated_a from_o christ_n jesus_n and_o to_o be_v exercise_v according_a to_o his_o appointment_n and_o in_o he_o alone_o and_o in_o no_o other_o do_v we_o place_v this_o monarchical_a power_n according_a to_o what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n witness_v that_o there_o be_v difference_n of_o administration_n but_o the_o same_o lord_n 1_o cor._n 12._o 5._o and_o though_o our_o brother_n be_v please_v to_o put_v this_o upon_o we_o that_o we_o conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchical_a yet_o in_o truth_n the_o same_o be_v far_o from_o we_o nor_o do_v i_o think_v that_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o we_o can_v be_v name_v that_o at_o any_o time_n have_v so_o speak_v nor_o do_v such_o a_o thing_n follow_v from_o any_o thing_n deliver_v by_o we_o concern_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o here_o he_o intimate_v and_o elsewhere_o express_v more_o plain_o so_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n be_v close_o make_v void_a or_o destroy_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o ascribe_v unto_o class_n if_o this_o be_v hold_v by_o we_o do_v it_o thence_o follow_v that_o we_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchicalâ—â—_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n i_o can_v prove_v that_o himself_o dâ—th_v hold_v a_o power_n monarchical_a in_o the_o universal_a or_o provincial_n church_n for_o he_o express_o affirm_v page_n 337._o that_o the_o pope_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a and_o the_o prelate_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n whereof_o he_o be_v pretend_v pastor_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o do_v not_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o the_o one_o church_n nor_o in_o the_o other_o nor_o in_o any_o church_n or_o church_n but_o in_o christ_n alone_o nor_o can_v the_o same_o be_v true_o conclude_v upon_o that_o which_o he_o affirm_v of_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o church_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o prelate_n and_o if_o not_o how_o then_o can_v any_o man_n conclude_v against_o we_o that_o we_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o congregation_n though_o we_o shall_v hold_v that_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n be_v destroy_v or_o diminish_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o will_v give_v unto_o classesâ—_n if_o our_o prâ—mises_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o fasten_v such_o a_o tenent_n upon_o we_o his_o own_o will_v give_v a_o warrant_n for_o the_o like_a against_o himself_o and_o if_o the_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a to_o bear_v such_o a_o conclusion_n against_o he_o as_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v i_o know_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n why_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v impute_v unto_o we_o complete_a and_o enâ—ire_a power_n to_o rule_v both_o the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o consociate_v church_n in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v keep_v communion_n with_o that_o congregation_n and_o may_v either_o edify_v or_o scandalize_v they_o flow_v not_o immeaiate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o every_o congregation_n even_o in_o remote_a land_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o that_o we_o never_o say_v answer_n indeed_o it_o be_v a_o absurd_a and_o gross_a say_n for_o any_o man_n to_o say_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o shall_v have_v power_n yea_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o rule_v the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o church_n consociate_v and_o that_o this_o shall_v flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o congregation_n but_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o our_o brother_n shall_v clear_v himself_o from_o this_o say_n for_o i_o know_v none_o that_o impute_v it_o to_o he_o nevertheless_o the_o say_n here_o â—â—joyned_v can_v be_v deny_v for_o they_o be_v his_o own_o verbâ—tiâ—â—_n first_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o near_a vicinity_n and_o contiguity_n of_o member_n be_v give_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o one_o congregation_n in_o a_o isle_n because_o that_o church_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v it_o be_v a_o little_a city_n and_o a_o little_a kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n have_v within_o itself_o power_n of_o the_o â—ord_n and_o sacrament_n
and_o that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o church_n now_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n page_n 302._o second_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n page_n 302._o three_o where_o consociation_n be_v not_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n page_n 338._o four_o that_o in_o such_o case_n viz._n when_o a_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o they_o have_v the_o word_n preach_v and_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a page_n 454._o five_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n ibid._n six_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n ibid._n seven_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n ibid._n such_o say_n as_o these_o himself_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o page_n and_o place_n here_o cite_v and_o in_o the_o word_n and_o term_n here_o express_v and_o therefore_o from_o these_o he_o can_v clear_v himself_o and_o if_o from_o these_o the_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v just_o be_v deduce_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v and_o have_v above_o manifest_v it_o will_v then_o but_o little_o avail_v he_o to_o wash_v his_o hand_n from_o the_o stain_n of_o that_o other_o absurd_a say_n afore_o mention_v which_o no_o man_n that_o i_o know_v do_v charge_n he_o withal_o for_o as_o long_o as_o these_o other_o say_n do_v stand_v unrecal_v so_o long_o we_o have_v clear_a ground_n from_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o word_n for_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o every_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o our_o own_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n add_v to_o a_o other_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o word_n be_v a_o auxiliary_a power_n and_o no_o way_n destructive_a to_o that_o power_n to_o which_o it_o be_v add_v indeed_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v destructive_a of_o that_o power_n and_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v so_o because_o christ_n never_o give_v any_o such_o power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n answ_n here_o our_o brother_n speak_v of_o two_o case_n first_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o second_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_a but_o beside_o these_o there_o be_v a_o three_o case_n which_o have_v need_v to_o be_v consider_v also_o viz._n a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o which_o may_v be_v the_o case_n when_o the_o power_n of_o classis_fw-la be_v add_v to_o a_o congregation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a but_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v in_o the_o right_n and_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o wrong_n now_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v or_o do_v in_o this_o â—ase_n shall_v the_o congregation_n now_o have_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o its_o power_n or_o shall_v it_o not_o to_o say_v yea_o will_v satisfy_v the_o mind_n of_o many_o if_o the_o congregation_n themselves_o may_v be_v judge_n that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o right_n or_o if_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v thereof_o and_o to_o say_v no_o and_o that_o the_o power_n must_v still_o be_v in_o this_o err_a classis_fw-la be_v to_o subject_a righteousness_n to_o wickedness_n and_o truth_n to_o falsehood_n and_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o maintain_v such_o power_n in_o a_o compound_n or_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la for_o in_o page_n 335._o speak_v of_o this_o very_a case_n and_o the_o great_a presbytery_n be_v wrong_a in_o their_o voice_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v right_a and_o have_v the_o best_a in_o judge_v of_o a_o case_n before_o they_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o power_n which_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbytery_n exercise_v be_v not_o of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o jure_v the_o power_n of_o the_o great_a presbytery_n in_o this_o case_n ought_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o of_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregation_n though_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n now_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o as_o uncertain_a as_o before_o and_o still_o we_o be_v to_o seek_v where_o the_o power_n of_o censure_n or_o jurisdiction_n do_v final_o reside_v for_o in_o the_o one_o place_n our_o brother_n tell_v we_o christ_n never_o give_v power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o the_o like_a of_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o great_a presbytery_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o any_o church_n to_o err_v by_o which_o say_n we_o be_v leave_v at_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o still_o the_o question_n will_v be_v whether_o the_o congregation_n do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o so_o whether_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v of_o this_o we_o be_v still_o but_o where_o we_o be_v and_o no_o near_o a_o issue_n then_o before_o this_o indeed_o be_v most_o true_a and_o must_v be_v so_o acknowledge_v that_o though_o the_o lord_n almighty_n have_v give_v a_o power_n unto_o society_n whether_o they_o be_v family_n commonwealth_n or_o church_n and_o have_v make_v sundry_a of_o they_o subordinate_a to_o none_o other_o the_o like_a society_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o power_n but_o to_o have_v supremacy_n of_o power_n within_o themselves_o yet_o he_o have_v also_o give_v they_o just_a and_o holy_a rule_n in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o direct_n of_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o power_n from_o which_o rule_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o swerve_v or_o go_v astray_o but_o if_o they_o do_v it_o will_v be_v sin_n unto_o they_o and_o he_o will_v sure_o require_v it_o of_o they_o but_o now_o between_o these_o two_o the_o power_n itself_o and_o the_o abuse_n or_o right_a use_n of_o the_o power_n we_o must_v careful_o distinguish_v for_o though_o abuse_n of_o their_o power_n be_v not_o give_v of_o god_n from_o who_o come_v nothing_o but_o good_a yet_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v good_a be_v give_v of_o he_o and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o though_o abuse_v of_o their_o power_n do_v just_o deserve_v at_o his_o hand_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n itself_o yeâ—_n god_n do_v not_o always_o forthwith_o deal_v with_o man_n according_a to_o their_o desert_n herein_o but_o many_o time_n continue_v still_o to_o they_o their_o power_n though_o they_o have_v abuse_v the_o same_o much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v other_o to_o deprive_v they_o of_o this_o power_n because_o of_o every_o abuse_n thereon_o witness_n among_o other_o the_o example_n of_o the_o pagan_a prince_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n who_o through_o their_o ignorance_n infidelity_n pride_n and_o other_o sin_n can_v not_o but_o in_o great_a measure_n abuse_v their_o authority_n and_o yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n command_v the_o christian_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a thereunto_o rom._n 13._o 1_o 2._o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v 3._o 1._o not_o to_o obey_v they_o indeed_o in_o do_v evil_a at_o their_o command_n for_o in_o such_o case_n they_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o than_o man_n as_o act_n 5._o 29._o yet_o still_o they_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o power_n either_o active_o or_o passive_o even_o then_o when_o the_o power_n be_v sinful_o abuse_v even_o so_o if_o a_o family_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o family_n may_v lawful_o for_o this_o cause_n take_v away_o their_o power_n from_o they_o or_o if_o a_o corporation_n shall_v so_o offend_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o corporation_n may_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o power_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o church_n or_o how_o will_v it_o follow_v if_o a_o church_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n
his_o page_n 482._o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o pag._n 16_o 17._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v that_o though_o some_o have_v appeal_v as_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n from_o the_o pope_n to_o a_o general_a council_n yet_o not_o from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n answ_n as_o he_o one_o of_o these_o page_n have_v nothing_o at_o all_o concern_v this_o matter_n and_o therefore_o may_v well_o have_v be_v spare_v so_o neither_o of_o they_o both_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o luther_n either_o of_o one_o purpose_n or_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v mention_v as_o thus_o speak_v of_o by_o we_o who_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o he_o at_o all_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n for_o any_o purpose_n whatsoever_o nor_o do_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o word_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n agree_v with_o we_o as_o we_o have_v set_v they_o down_o in_o the_o 16._o page_n allege_v and_o therefore_o that_o our_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v appear_v let_v i_o relate_v our_o own_o word_n which_o be_v these_o how_o this_o example_n sc_n of_o cramners_n appeal_n to_o council_n relate_v by_o mr._n fox_n do_v suit_n the_o present_a question_n we_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o appeal_n be_v not_o from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n but_o from_o the_o pope_n nor_o be_v it_o from_o a_o synod_n but_o to_o the_o next_o general_a council_n which_o from_o that_o day_n to_o this_o have_v not_o yet_o be_v assemble_v nor_o call_v if_o we_o must_v hold_v a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o judicatory_a as_o cranmer_n appeal_v unto_o than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n provincial_a and_o national_a be_v utter_o take_v away_o these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n now_o what_o do_v he_o answer_v thereto_o in_o matter_n doctrinal_a say_v he_o some_o as_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n though_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o answ_n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o yet_o for_o luther_n how_o can_v it_o be_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o instance_n both_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o not_o and_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o for_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o do_v it_o and_o yet_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n be_v two_o of_o they_o that_o do_v it_o not_o these_o be_v saying_n which_o seem_v not_o to_o agree_v again_o if_o luther_n do_v so_o appeal_v why_o be_v no_o proof_n allege_v for_o confirmation_n of_o what_o here_o be_v affirm_v which_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v have_v consider_v thereof_o but_o since_o there_o be_v not_o we_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o forbear_v assent_n till_o that_o which_o be_v here_o naked_o affirm_v be_v further_o strengthen_v by_o some_o proof_n or_o other_o to_o make_v it_o good_a last_o if_o luther_n or_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n then_o why_o will_v it_o not_o be_v lawful_a for_o other_o upon_o like_a occasion_n to_o do_v the_o like_a and_o if_o so_o then_o as_o we_o argue_v in_o the_o answer_n the_o supremacy_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n be_v utter_o take_v away_o and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n cause_n and_o controversy_n may_v still_o be_v depend_v and_o never_o come_v to_o be_v determine_v so_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o good_a of_o his_o people_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n though_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o answ_n for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o altogether_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n but_o here_o i_o have_v a_o quere_z or_o two_o to_o propose_v to_o our_o reverend_a brother_n serious_a consideration_n first_o of_o all_o how_o this_o passage_n do_v agree_v with_o that_o which_o himself_o have_v write_v pag._n 387._o where_o he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v make_v good_a that_o a_o power_n dogmatic_a be_v not_o different_a in_o nature_n from_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o that_o we_o read_v not_o of_o any_o society_n which_o have_v power_n to_o meet_v to_o make_v law_n and_o decree_n which_o have_v not_o power_n also_o to_o back_v their_o decree_n with_o punishment_n yea_o he_o say_v further_a that_o if_o the_o jewish_a synodry_n may_v meet_v to_o declare_v judicial_o what_o be_v god_n law_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n and_o what_o not_o far_o more_o may_v they_o punish_v contravener_n of_o the_o law_n for_o anomothetick_a power_n in_o a_o society_n which_o be_v the_o great_a power_n and_o be_v in_o the_o fountain_n must_v presuppose_v in_o the_o society_n 〈◊〉_d lesser_a power_n which_o be_v to_o punish_v anomothetick_a power_n ministerial_a can_v want_v a_o power_n of_o censure_v so_o that_o whereto_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v there_o may_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n some_o 〈◊〉_d doctrinal_a power_n without_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n in_o this_o other_o place_n he_o say_v these_o power_n do_v not_o differ_v in_o nature_n nor_o can_v the_o former_a be_v without_o the_o latter_a but_o do_v always_o presuppose_v the_o same_o as_o that_o which_o be_v lesser_a and_o which_o it_o can_v want_v now_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v i_o be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v next_o of_o all_o how_o do_v this_o passage_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n agree_v with_o that_o which_o be_v write_v p._n 308_o 309._o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o inate_a and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v the_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o she_o and_o what_o that_o power_n be_v he_o express_v in_o two_o or_o three_o line_n proceed_v viz._n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o relax_v from_o excommunication_n even_o national_a church_n if_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v please_v to_o give_v the_o christian_a church_n a_o general_a council_n this_o day_n may_v lawful_o in_o a_o jurisdictiall_a way_n declare_v the_o faction_n of_o the_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n to_o be_v mystical_a babylon_n which_o in_o excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o the_o act_n and_o again_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o in_o page_n 304._o he_o tell_v in_o that_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o he_o call_v it_o extraordinary_a and_o remote_a and_o which_o be_v but_o rare_o to_o be_v put_v forth_o in_o act_n be_v give_v to_o the_o catholic_n visible_a presbytery_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n visible_a church_n in_o all_o which_o place_n he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n which_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v three_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n then_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v such_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n which_o be_v far_o less_o yea_o and_o that_o there_o be_v in_o these_o presbytery_n a_o power_n independent_a and_o supreme_a without_o appeal_n to_o any_o other_o for_o such_o power_n there_o must_v be_v in_o some_o of_o they_o if_o there_o be_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o at_o all_o since_o we_o be_v tell_v there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o general_a council_n to_o appeal_v unto_o now_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o any_o such_o independent_a supreme_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v give_v to_o any_o of_o those_o presbytery_n where_o be_v the_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o speak_v of_o such_o power_n for_o our_o part_n we_o know_v of_o none_o but_o do_v still_o think_v that_o this_o power_n be_v place_v by_o christ_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o be_v the_o rather_o strengthen_v in_o this_o apprehension_n for_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v give_v against_o the_o congregation_n power_n and_o wherein_o our_o brethren_n be_v wont_a to_o place_v their_o great_a strength_n sc_n that_o appeal_n be_v juris_fw-la naturalis_fw-la and_o that_o defect_n in_o the_o part_n be_v to_o be_v supply_v
as_o we_o see_v that_o in_o some_o case_n one_o may_v be_v a_o pastor_n without_o ordination_n whereupon_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v either_o that_o one_o may_v be_v a_o pastor_n without_o any_o authoritative_a call_n or_o else_o that_o ordination_n be_v in_o effect_n but_o the_o same_o with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o so_o there_o be_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o they_o as_o be_v pretend_v but_o so_o many_o pastor_n send_v a_o pastor_n to_o a_o congregation_n though_o that_o congregation_n never_o choose_v he_o answ_n take_v your_o own_o word_n for_o answer_n pag._n 496._o we_o never_o read_v that_o in_o the_o apostle_n church_n a_o man_n be_v obtrude_v upon_o the_o people_n against_o their_o will_n and_o therefore_o election_n by_o the_o people_n in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n as_o act._n 1._o 26._o act._n 6._o 2_o 3_o 4._o rev._n 2._o 1_o 2._o act._n 20._o v._n 28._o must_v be_v our_o rule_n any_o election_n without_o the_o people_n consent_n must_v be_v no_o election_n for_o if_o it_o please_v not_o the_o whole_a multitude_n as_o act._n 6._o 5._o it_o be_v not_o a_o choice_n and_o in_o pag._n 465._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o all_o incorporation_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n to_o choose_v their_o own_o ruler_n and_o officer_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v provide_v the_o same_o in_o a_o eminant_a manner_n for_o his_o church_n and_o therefore_o for_o this_o passage_n that_o many_o pastor_n may_v send_v a_o pastor_n to_o be_v pastor_n to_o a_o congregation_n though_o that_o congregation_n never_o choose_v he_o we_o desire_v that_o he_o will_v take_v his_o own_o money_n for_o payment_n chap._n xxv_o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o those_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o act._n 6._o 2_o 3_o 4._o act._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbytery_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consumatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o afore_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minster_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o aswell_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v pag_n 493._o if_o the_o people_n may_v elect_v officer_n then_o in_o some_o case_n they_o may_v ordain_v they_o also_o because_o ordination_n be_v less_o than_o election_n and_o depend_v upon_o it_o as_o a_o necessary_a antecedent_n and_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o consummation_n of_o election_n or_o the_o admission_n of_o a_o person_n into_o the_o possession_n of_o that_o office_n whereto_o he_o have_v right_o before_o by_o election_n if_o then_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v elect_v which_o be_v the_o great_a they_o may_v ordain_v which_o be_v the_o less_o and_o for_o this_o he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46_o 47._o and_o then_o give_v answer_v thereto_o in_o these_o word_n ordination_n be_v the_o more_o and_o election_n the_o lesser_a for_o ordination_n be_v a_o act_n authoritative_a of_o the_o presbytery_n 1._o tim._n 4._o 14._o answ_n take_v ordination_n as_o we_o take_v it_o for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n on_o a_o church_n officer_n and_o then_o we_o think_v it_o be_v less_o than_o election_n as_o be_v but_o a_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n use_v at_o a_o minister_n entrance_n into_o his_o office_n but_o not_o at_o all_o of_o the_o essence_n thereof_o nor_o be_v we_o alone_o or_o the_o first_o that_o have_v so_o think_v for_o to_o omit_v other_o he_o that_o write_v the_o book_n call_v the_o unbishoping_a of_o timothy_n and_o tytus_fw-la affirm_v pag._n 114._o that_o it_o be_v no_o essential_a but_o a_o ceremonial_a part_n of_o ordination_n which_o may_v be_v sufficient_o make_v without_o it_o and_o say_v that_o angelus_n de_fw-fr clavasio_n peter_n martyr_n and_o other_o both_o papist_n and_o protestant_n affirm_v the_o same_o and_o in_o pag._n 116._o he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o service_n or_o ministry_n not_o of_o authority_n and_o no_o more_o than_o a_o external_a compliment_n or_o ceremony_n allege_v dr._n ames_n &_o other_o for_o the_o same_o tenant_n but_o now_o election_n be_v more_o than_o a_o ceremony_n that_o may_v be_v omit_v mr._n rutherford_n himself_o be_v judge_n for_o in_o his_o pag._n 496._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n a_o minister_n be_v never_o obtrude_v upon_o the_o people_n against_o their_o will_n but_o that_o they_o still_o have_v the_o election_n of_o their_o minister_n and_o this_o he_o say_v must_v be_v our_o rule_n so_o that_o any_o election_n without_o the_o people_n consent_n must_v be_v no_o election_n for_o if_o it_o please_v not_o the_o whole_a multitude_n it_o be_v not_o a_o choice_n and_o in_o p._n 202._o he_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o chrysostome_n that_o all_o election_n of_o pastor_n be_v null_a without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n whereby_o it_o seem_v that_o election_n be_v something_o essential_a and_o so_o consequent_o more_o than_o imposition_n of_o hand_n which_o be_v but_o a_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n which_o may_v be_v absent_a and_o yet_o a_o man_n have_v all_o the_o essentials_n of_o a_o minister_n notwithstanding_o as_o for_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n there_o speak_v of_o i_o conceive_v can_v not_o be_v any_o act_n of_o superior_a authority_n but_o only_o a_o approbatory_a sign_n or_o rite_n which_o may_v be_v use_v by_o inferior_n towards_o your_o superior_n for_o timothy_n be_v a_o evangelist_n how_o can_v any_o ordinary_a presbytery_n have_v authority_n over_o he_o or_o give_v office_n or_o authority_n to_o he_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o say_v that_o timothy_n receive_v his_o gift_n by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n but_o by_o the_o prophecy_n and_o by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o paul_n hand_n and_o with_o the_o lay_n on_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n now_o between_o those_o two_o phrase_n by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n and_o with_o the_o same_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n the_o one_o import_v some_o cause_n or_o authority_n or_o power_n the_o other_o import_v no_o more_o but_o a_o approbatory_a rite_n or_o a_o sign_n use_v in_o a_o solemn_a commend_v of_o one_o to_o god_n by_o prayer_n altar_n damascen_n pag._n 161._o of_o which_o more_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o plea_n for_o the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n part_n of_o the_o second_o chap._n 12._o quest_n 2_o 4._o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o author_n may_v argue_v thus_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v ergo_fw-la they_o may_v preach_v and_o baptise_v for_o all_o the_o three_o be_v presbyterial_a act_n give_v to_o man_n in_o office_n answ_n we_o read_v in_o mornay_n de_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la chap._n â—_o that_o of_o old_a time_n it_o be_v a_o argument_n rise_v in_o the_o church_n he_o may_v baptise_v he_o may_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ergo_fw-la he_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n but_o such_o argue_v as_o mr_n rutherford_n use_v they_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v baptise_v this_o we_o remember_v not_o that_o we_o have_v read_v in_o any_o author_n except_o in_o he_o nor_o do_v we_o think_v the_o consequence_n the_o same_o inasmuch_o as_o in_o the_o one_o the_o argument_n proceed_v from_o the_o great_a to_o the_o less_o and_o in_o the_o other_o from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o great_a and_o yet_o affirmative_o in_o both_o thus_o the_o argument_n be_v understand_v by_o the_o forename_a author_n of_o the_o unbishoping_a of_o timothy_n and_o tytus_fw-la who_o in_o pag._n 100_o speak_v of_o these_o word_n of_o mornay_n lay_v down_o the_o argument_n thus_o he_o can_v baptise_v he_o can_v consecrate_v and_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n which_o be_v the_o great_a and_o more_o honourable_a action_n ergo_fw-la he_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n which_o be_v the_o less_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v to_o be_v good_a but_o for_o that_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n i_o see_v no_o more_o consequence_n therein_o then_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v he_o that_o may_v do_v the_o lesser_a may_v do_v the_o great_a also_o in_o which_o i_o see_v no_o strength_n of_o consequence_n at_o all_o pag._n 493_o 494._o whereas_o some_o say_v act._n 6._o 3_o 4_o 5._o election_n of_o seven_o man_n to_o be_v deacon_n go_v before_o ordination_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n v_o 6._o answ_n election_n of_o the_o people_n go_v before_o ordination_n in_o the_o