Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	effect_n	faith_n	good_a	3,186	5	4.5750	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00791	An answer to a pamphlet, intituled: The Fisher catched in his owne net In vvhich, by the vvay, is shevved, that the Protestant Church was not so visible, in al ages, as the true Church ought to be: and consequently, is not the true Church. Of which, men may learne infallible faith, necessarie to saluation. By A.C.	A. C.; Champney, Anthony, 1569?-1643?, attributed name.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649, attributed name.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641, attributed name.	1623 (1623)	STC 10910.4; ESTC S107710	44,806	106

better examine Controuersies of Faith then those who want these abilities Secondly Although Visibilitie alone doe not prooue the true Church yet it supposing Gods Promises That the true Church shal be alwayes visible much helpeth and want of Visibilitie in any one age proueth a Companie not to be the true Church D. Featly The summe of your former answer was That the Minor of my former Syllogisme was both false and impertinent It is neyther false nor impertinent Ergo your answer is false and impertinent And first it is not false M. Fisher. I answer to the Antecedent That it is both false and impertinent but I adde That for the present it must be proued to be pertinent or else it diuerteth vs from the chiefe end of our dispute which was as I said before That infallible Truth may be learned of the true visible Church and not the true visible Church by first finding euery particular infallible Truth and by that to conclude which is the true visible Church D. Featly I prooue that the Minor is pertinent That Minor proposition which together with the Minor doth necessarily and directly inferre the conclusion of the Minor last denyed is pertinent to the probation of that Minor denyed But the Minor proposition of the third Syllogisme doth necessarily and directly inferre the conclusion of the Minor last denyed Ergo the Minor of that Syllogisme is pertinent M. Fisher did distinguish the Maior That Minor proposition which together with the Maior doth necessarily inferre the Conclusion so as it may serue for that purpose to which the whole Dispute is ordained I grant it to be pertinent But if it doe inferre the Conclusion yet not so as may serue for that purpose for which the whole Dispute was ordained I denie the Maior Here saith the Protestant Relator the Disputants iarred and so the Writer ceased What this Iarre was is not set downe nor by me remembred vnlesse it were about this subsequent Syllogisme D. Featly That Minor which together with the Maior inferres the Proposition last denyed the whole processe hauing beene per directa media is pertinent to that purpose to which the Dispute is ordained But the Minor together with the Maior directly and necessarily inferres the Proposition last denyed the whole Processus hauing beene made per directa media Ergo It is pertinent to that purpose to which the Dispute is ordained M. Fisher. Your Media in your Syllogismes were directa but they tended not ad directum finem If M. Fisher did say these words his meaning may be gathered out of his former explication in which he shewed how the direct end of the Disputation was not to treat of particular Controuersies but to finde out first by other meanes the true visible Church whose Professors names may be shewed in al ages out of good Authors Which being once found men desirous of satisfaction might as D. Field said rest in her Iudgement who otherwise as Lawyers without a Iudge might wrangle in euerie Controuersie without end Those Media therefore directa as D. Featly tearmed them might in some sort be so tearmed as being directed by D. Featly to his owne end of transferring the Question to particular Controuersies but not ad directum finem that is not ordayned to the direct end of the whole Disputation viz. To shew a visible Church of Protestants in al ages whose names may be shewed out of good Authors Which supposing D. Featly would haue proceeded sincerely ought to haue beene his onely end as M. Fisher signified by saying these words Responsum nullum dabunt pr●ter vnum quod nunquam dabunt ecce nomina D. Featly therefore had no iust cause to say as the Protestant Relator maketh him say It is a Bul M. Fisher media directa yet not ad directum finem that is direct and not direct for media are said to be directa onely ratione finis D. Featly I say had no iust cause to say this and M. Sweet might wel tel him of his fault in seeking to transferre the Question from the Church to particular points of Faith as the Protestant Relator saith he did saying Is not Transitio a genere in genus a fault in arguing c. But M. Sweet did not speake these formal words which the Protestant Relator hath set downe onely he asked the Doctors Whether it seemed strange to them that a Question should be transferred by a good Syllogisme which he said in regard D. Featly endeuored to proue his argument to be pertinent because his Syllogismes were good Here D. Featly as the Protestant Relator telleth said I acknowledge that Transitio a genere in genus is a fault in disputing but I neuer heard that the inference of the effect by the cause was Transitio a genere in genus such was my argument For Faith in a Beleeuer produceth profession and confession thereof which makes a visible member and the like profession of many members a visible Church Where the cause is perpetual the effect must needes be perpetual Therefore where the Faith is perpetual the profession thereof must needes be and consequently the visibilitie of the Professors thereof is this Transitio a genere in genus But D. Featly did not say al this yet if he did it doth not make any thing against M. Sweet and for him to speake of the cause being obscure when the Question is onely about the effect being more apparant and cleare as in our case is a fault in honest and sincere dealing Neyther is M. Sweets Logicke lesse to be esteemed if he had tearmed that fault Transitio a genere in genus For a cause as a cause and an effect as an effect doe not onely differ specie but also genere and beside a proofe a priori and a posteriori are diuers kinds of proofes Here sayth the Protestant Relator those of M. Fishers side calling for Names D. White said Where are your Names This is nothing but apparant tergiuersation You wil not answer any argument directly nor suffer vs to proceed in our arguments and therefore I require you M. Fisher according to the order mentioned in the beginning for each partie to haue an houre and a halfe for that you now oppose and suffer me to answer Proue by Christ and his Apostles or by any of the Fathers for the first six hundred yeeres these present Tenets of the Roman Church and then he named as the Protestant Relator sayth sixe particular Points But D. White did not speake thus neyther did he in al the Conference make any such long discourse Yet if he had so said M. Fisher might wel haue answered as the Protestant Relator saith he did M. Fisher. When you D. White or D. Featly haue proued your Church to be visible in al ages and named visible Protestants then wil I satisfie your demands But before this was done M. Fisher had no reason to diuert to those particular matters nor to produce Names of Catholikes in al ages in regard

it was his aduersaries fault to spend so long time in impertinent Syllogismes which should haue beene imployed in naming and prouing Protestants in al ages which by the prescribed method was first to be done before M. Fisher needed to proue any thing pertaining to the Roman Church Worthily therefore might M. Sweet cal for Names of Protestants and wel might he say That if Protestants had beene in al ages their Names at least some in euery age might be produced Vnto which as the Protestant Relator saith D. Featly replyed saying That is a Non sequitur c. What say you to a People of Africa who if we may beleeue Plinie haue no Names at al M. Boulton Yet they haue descriptions and may be knowne by some Periphrasis D. Featly What say you then to the Heretikes called Acephali who are so called because their Head and Author cannot be named nor particularly described yet the Author was a visible man Are al visible mens Names vpon record Are al the Records that were in former times now to be produced To this Obiection M. Boulton answered That those Acephali held some particular Doctrine which did amount to the nature of a Name sufficient to distinguish them from others insinuating hereby that these Acephali were not Anonymi Further it may be answered That it is not certaine whether they had any particular Author for some say That they were a Companie who in the Controuersie betwixt Iohn the Bishop of Antioch and Ciril of Alexandria behaued themselues like Neutrals submitting themselues to neyther as to their Head Others thinke That they were certaine men who being the fauorers of Petrus Mogus the Heretike did afterwards renounce him from being their Head because he would not accurse the Councel of Calcedon Others say That one Seuerus Bishop of Antioch was their Author But howsoeuer this particular were it dōth not conclude That there could be in al ages visible Professors of the Protestants Faith whereof no Storie nor other ancient Monument maketh mention of Names or Opinions or Places of abode of any of them or of those who opposed them as Stories make mention of some of these circumstances both of the Acephali and whatsoeuer other eminent Professors of euerie true or false Religion We doe not require that al visible mens names should be vpon record nor al Records produced For although to proue such a visible Church as that of our Sauiour Christs described in Scripture to be spread ouer the World a smal number of visible Professors be not sufficient as S. Augustine prooueth against the Donatists yet to shew how confident we are of our cause we for the present onely require That three eminent Protestants Names in al ages be produced out of good Authors But they are so farre from being able to produce three as they cannot name one in euerie age as is clearely prooued in the Protestants Apologie neyther indeed can they abide with any patience when they be much pressed in this Point as appeareth by diuers who haue beene vrged and in particular by D. Featly in this Conference who hauing beene called vpon seueral times to produce Names as he had vndertaken at one time he burst forth into these words set downe by the Protestant Relator What wil nothing content you but a Buttrie-Booke You shal haue a Buttrie-Booke if you wil stay a while Note Reader this Doctors want of grauitie and patience and what a fit Title he giueth to a Catalogue of Names of Protestants who indeed are more like to be found in a Buttrie-Booke then in any good Record of Antiquitie as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his Arostasie more respected the Buttrie then any Ecclesiastical Storie But how vnwilling D. Featly was to bring out this his Buttrie-Booke appeareth in that after the Auditorie had long stayed and often called for the Names of Protestants in al ages which should haue been giuen at first after not onely Catholikes but also diuers of the Protestants being wearie and not willing to heare any more of his dilatorie and impertinent Syllogismes had entreated him to giue ouer his arguments and to produce Names First he said If I should giue ouer M. Fisher would say of me as he said of D. White That I was at a Non plus and therefore I wil goe forward in arguing To which M. Fisher said Then wil I goe forward in answering But the Companie earnestly calling for Names D. Featly bad the Writer set downe in writing That he was willing to proceed but to satisfie the Companie he would diuert vnto the Names Which M. Fisher seeing to be written said Vnlesse this be blotted out it shal be set downe for Answer That hitherto D. Featly hauing diuerted from the chiefe end of the Question wil now speake to the purpose M. Sweet also said That it was a manifest wrong Whereupon the former words were blotted out And it was written as the Protestant Relator sayth That both the Disputants being willing to proceede D. Featly was desired by the Companie to produce the Names of such Protestants as were extant before Luther in al ages This being written and subscribed both by D. Featly and M. Fisher D. Featly proceeded to his Induction But before he would begin to name any he first endeauoured to fore-stal his hearers with an il opinion against M. Fisher saying There is no credit to be giuen to this man who not onely slandered D. White in a former Conference but also falsely writ what passed betwixt M. Musket and my selfe in a certaine Disputation M. Fisher hearing this false slander did rise vp and for the honour of the Truth and clearing of his Credit did before the Audience solemnely protest vpon his Conscience That wittingly and willingly he did neuer wrong eyther D. White or D. Featly in report of any former Conference And if any thing were false written it was not willingly but as the Protestant Writer of this present Conference hath sometimes mistaken the words of the Disputants which as he being warned did correct so did I said M. Fisher. To this nothing was replyed and therefore I suppose that the Audience was wel satisfied of M. Fishers sinceritie in his Relation and writing of the former Disputations After this D. Featly named for the first age our Lord and Sauior Christ and the Twelue Apostles and S. Paul and S. Ignatius after which he stayed a while as if he studyed for more Names but not remembring any more whom he would set downe for the first age he said These not denying others may serue for the first age Then turning to M. Fisher he said Let vs dispute of these No said M. Fisher name first of al ages What said D. Featly wil you not dispute of Christ and his Apostles Yes said M. Fisher in due place but first name the rest in al ages and then I wil answer you What said D. Featly doe not Christ and his Apostles