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cause_n	ecclesiastical_a	person_n	supreme_a	2,944	5	8.9634	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16643	A plaine confutation of a treatise of Brovvnisme, published by some of that faction, entituled: A description of the visible Church In the confutation wherof, is shewed, that the author hath neither described a true gouerment of the Church, nor yet proued, that outward discipline is the life of the Church. Whereunto is annexed an ansvvere vnto two other pamphlets, by the said factioners latelie dispersed, of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison. Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this sect, what the articles are which they still maintaine: as also a short confutation of them. There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God.	Alison, Richard, controversialist.	1590 (1590)	STC 355; ESTC S100153	67,007	148

in crying out they are slandered then wil it also be cōfessed that they are not persecuted Christians but vnbridled factioners For these are no slanderous positions as they say forged against them by the bishops but phantasticall assertions first deuised and now againe confirmed by themselues as by their seuerall handling of the seuerall Articles they do shew To the first Article therefore they say that neither the Lords Prayer nor any other praier in the scriptures may be vsed but by explication Also that they serue onely for instruction Againe That the verie forme of words as they are in these petitions was giuen and instituted as a set and stinted prayer we finde not in the scriptures Also to vse it for a set prayer is say they a stinting of the holy Ghost Now if these assertions do not agree with the Article and testifie that they do hold it they haue the greater cause to complaine but I see no difference betwene the one the other Now the folly of this Article is manifest in this that the Lords prayer was giuen for the same end y e other prayers were in the canonicall scripture but other prayers were not for instruction as hath bin shewed before pag. 23. I need not make the conclusion And as touching their denying the forme of praier which Christ gaue to his disciples to be his praier because we reade not that he euer vsed it And their accusing vs to be falsifiers of the text when we call it the Lords Prayer If it were not a strife about words I would say more whereas now I wil onely put them in minde that we haue learned this phrase of the holy Ghost who calleth the prayers which God hath taught and doth approue his prayers as Esa. 56. 7. I vvil make them glad bebeth tepillati in the house of my prayer for there it is called the Lords prayer not for that he vsed it but because he prescribed it And why then may not we in like sort cal this the Lords praier in as much as he hath taught it but of this enough lest it be said of vs para men gar hemin esti logoma chia c To the 2. article they say that the canonicall praiers commended to vs by Gods spirite haue this onely vse that they serue for instruction And that our morning and euening praiers are not onely a babling but apocriphall and idolatrous c. So that neither canonicall nor other praiers that are prescribed are deemed lawfull to be vsed for praiers in the sight of the Lord. Whereby it is made manifest that they are not vniustly charged with this Article Which notwithstanding is but a false assertion considering that sette praiers were vsed vnder the lawe are not forbidden in the gospell and are also vsed in all reformed churches vntil this daie To the 3. article they saie that our liturgie is drawen out of the Popes portuise is not onely idolatrous superstious and a deuised worship but a bundle of infinite grosse blasphemous errours a Pseudodiathesis a counterfet gospell an idoll and huge Chaos of long gathered and patched absurdities a new gospel a masse booke and what not How then are they slandered when it is sayde that they account our worship of God as it is now established to be false superstitious and popish But the best is these calumniations are not greatly to be regarded for if they need not to be ashamed of learning the truth of Donatus who was a schismatical heretique wee haue as small cause to cast awaie good things though it could be proued as it is not that we had taken them from an heretike And though no worke of man and so not our booke of publike praier can be free from all blemishes the Lord reseruing this glorie to himselfe that hee will bee acknowledged perfectly wise and his workes onely voide of imperfection yet so farre is this booke from deseruing these great reproches that it beeing compared with the best treatise that these disturbers haue brought forth the most grosse and blasphemous error which they cā proue therin may be iustified in cōparison of many that are deliuered for sound doctrine in their pamphlets if both of thē be right vnderstood To the 4. they say that it being subiect to the vvorship aforesaid cōsisting of al sorts of vnclen spirits atheists papists heretikes c. it is not a true mēber of the bodie of Christ. It is not thē blasphemy to charge thē with this 4. article And whether they haue cause to hold it vppon this ground or not shal be euident hereafter To the fifth article It is euident to al men saie they and confessed of our enimies that the ministers laws and other ordinances whereby the parish assemblies are gouerned are not such as Christ appointed to his church of pastor c. but by such officers courts and canons as are hatched from Rome Do they not then iustifie this article wherin as in others they cōplaine they are slandered yet in as much as they are constāt in it let thē proue by the word of God both their discipline to be good also our gouernmēt to be Antichristian which they will hardlie afford considering that before the time of papacy there were these offices in the church which these men terme Antichrististian as M. Caluin testifieth Inst. li. 5. ca. 4. se. 4. whose authoritie I vse with these men because I finde that they themselues haue alleaged the same To the 6. article they saie that vve neither hauing a lavvfull ministerie nor faithfull holie free people c. the sacraments in our assemblies deliuered are no true sacraments nor seales vvith promise How thē can these men without blushing put this article in the nūber of forged positiōs for cōsidering that they make their iudgments knowen concerning this point I maruell more they are not ashamed to denie it then I do that some of them Donatist like haue desired to be baptised again The answer to this wilbe easie by that which foloweth in the answer to the 3 brāch of the 5. argumēt To the seauenth they say that no godlie Christians separate from the false church ought to bring their infants to these parish assemblies to bee baptised into that fellovvship and profession c. These wordes do iustifie our Bishops in charging these men with this article The substance whereof seeing it doth depend vpon the former article the follies of it being perceaued the want of wisedom in this will soone be descried To the eight they say that all true christians vvithin her maiestie dominions acknovvledge her Maiestie to be the supreame magistrate and gouernes ouer all persons within the church and without the church yea ouer all causes ecclesiasticall and ciuill Which assertion if it had bene receiued of the whole sect then it had bene a slander in deed but in as much as in an assembly of aboue twentie persons it was concluded that her Maiestie is not supreame head

edifie the most simple approuing it to euerie mans conscience he must be of life vnreproueable one that can gouerne his owne household he must be of manners sober temperate modest gentle and louing c. Answere In this description of a doctor here is nothing differing from that which hath bin in the description of a pastor For as there no mētion was made of any ecclesiastical iurisdiction so here it is also passed ouer in silence as if he had neuer said that the pastor and doctor were gouerning officers And as there he requireth of a pastor the diuiding of the worde of God aright and the approuing of it to euerie mans conscience so doth he heere require the same in a doctor and both alike in the iudgement of our author are to execute their office without any difference either of the place or of the matter or of the manner of dealing then the which what can be more fond if he speaketh the truth in saying that these offices are limited seuered and diuers And lastlie as in the description of a pastor the scriptures were abused so in this of a doctor they are not friendly handled For these-places 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. 2. Tim. 2. 15. haue bene alleaged before for the pastor who being an ouerseer of Christs flocke hath not bene denied the vse of the Scriptures to decypher out his calling but in bringing the same in again for a Doctor it appeareth that the store is now spent wherof there was no spare in the beginning of this Treatise Also these 1. Cor. 1. 17. 2. 4. doe shew what Paul did in his Apostleship but the office of a Doctor is a distinct matter from the office of an Apostle therefore altogether impertinent vnto this matter are these testimonies vsed by the author Their Elders must be of wisdome and iudgement endued with the spirite of God able to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea and accordingly to preuent and redresse euils alwaies vigilant and intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the church that not only by the people in obedience but to see the officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproueable gouerning their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest louing temperate c. Ansvvere The third sorte of gouerning officers in the Church are by our author called Elders concerning which name howsoeuer Caluine reporteth that in churches of former times some had this title giuen vnto them who onely were conuersant in the censure of the church yet is it generally in the Scriptures ascribed vnto them that laboured in the worde and sacraments as appeareth Tit. 1. 5. Act. 14. 12. 20. 17. in other places And therupon Caluin saith Quod Episcopos presbyteros pastores ministros promiscue vocaui qui ecclesias regunt idfeciex scripturae vsu quae vocabulaista cōfundit In that I haue without making difference named Bishops and Elders and Pastors and Ministers I haue done it according to the practise of the Scripture which confoundeth these wordes And Ierome sayth Veteribus eos omnino fuisse presbyteros quos Episcopos VVith those of ancient times the same men were Elders which were Bishops Therfore it is not so directly from the word of God as in the title of this booke is promised but from the practise of some churches that he hath taken this name Elder to giue it vnto those which beare office without anie further dealing in the ministerie of the word As the name Elder in this place is not vsuall in the word so the office of an Elder as it is here described hath neither warrant of the worde nor yet of any church whether ancient or of latter daies I graunt that certain churches haue made choice of men which shoulde deale onely in the censures of the church whom they haue called Presbyteros Elders But the most that they haue euer required in such an Elder was that he should be sound in faith in life vnreproueable able to discerne of the dealings of euerie calling in the church careful to see rightly into the same and readie to ioyne in correcting with ecclesiastical censure those that are vndutifull beeing helpfull vnto the rest But that it shoulde belong vnto them to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea c. It is a plaine pulling of the svvorde out of the magistrates hand They meane no such matter they saie for they graunt the magistrate his authoritie ouer the persons though not ouer the causes of men This it is whereas her Maiesty hath appointed Iudges in the land to end causes decide controuersies to giue sentence vpon malefactors and shirifes to see the execution of that vvhich the Iudges haue determined the seat of iudgement must be brought into the consistorie of these Elders and the office of the Shirife must be onely lefte in the hande of the magistrate to see the decrees of these auncients put in execution Now tell mee if these men do not goe beyond Corah his companie as before vvas said yet I will leaue the further consideration of these matters vnto those whom they doe concerne onely let vs see vvhat warrants they haue out of the worde of God for the largenesse of this their commission Num. 11. 24. maketh mention of three score and tenne men which were chosen by the appointment of God to bee assistants vnto Moses but these were temporall magistrates and not ecclesiasticall Againe it sayth not that Moses was discharged and the authoritie of iudging betweene plea and plea remayned in the power of these men onely As like to purpose is Act. 15. where there is neither anie such authoritie mentioned as aforesayd nor yet such an office as an vnministering Elder spoken of For the worde Elders in that place doeth signifie those that labour in vvord and doctrine as hath beene noted before As touching that of Paul 1. Tim. 5. 17. An Elder is worthie of double honour especially such as labour in the worde and doctrine From whence is collected that there were some Elders which did not labour in the word and doctrine I answere that there was a time as before was saide when such Elders were in the church but when they had their beginning how long they cōtinued how far their office extēded The author hath neither in this place nor els where shewed At the first they were not as by that hath bene shewed may appeare Afterward it should seeme that some such were appointed for the secret meetings of the faithful whiles they were vnder persecution but when the church increased and was dispersed into nations as now it is in England we reade not that such were continued in the Church nay the contrarie is flatly testified For as Ierome sayeth Idem est Presbyter qui est Episcopus antequam diaboli instinctu

studia in religione fieret diceretur in populis ego sum Pauli ego Appollo ego autem Cephae communi Presbyterorum concilio ecclesiae gubernabantur Postquam vero vnusquisque eos quos baptizauerat suos putabat esse non Christi in toto orbe decretumest vt vnus de Praesbyteris electus supponeretur ceteris ad quem omnis Ecclesiae cura pertineret An Elder is the same that a Bishoppe is and before that through the instigation of the deuill affection bare swaie in matters of religion and that it was said amongst the people I am of Paul I am of Apollo I am of Cephas the churches were gouerned by the common councell of the elders but after that euerie one thought that those whome hee baptized were his owne and not Christes it was deereed throughout the world that one of the elders should be set in the place of the rest to whome might pertaine the whole state of the Church If there be any help it must be had from the 2. Chro. 19. 8. for there it is thus writen Moreouer in Ierusalem Iehosaphat did appoint of the Leuites of the priests and of the chiefe of the families of Israel for the iudgements of the Lord and for strifes when they returned to Ierusalem By the iudgementes of the Lord are vnderstood those holy causes the knowledge whereof was committed to the priests Leuites by strifes are noted ciuil contentions the ending whereof pertained to the chiefe of the families of Israell This selfe same matter is expressed also Deut. 17. 9. If there arise a matter too hard for thee in iudgement betweene blood and blood plea and plea betweene plague and plague in the matters of controuersie within thy gates thou shalt then arise and go vp vnto the place which Iehoua thy God shall choose and thou shalt come vnto the priestes of the Leuites or vnto the iudge that shall be in those daies c. So that this disiunctiue or doth expresse a plaine difference betweene the office of the priest and the matters belonging to the iudge For althogh ve al hashpat be red in some translations to the iudge yet the twelft verse of this chapter doth end this controuersie where the disiunctiue or is set downe by an other worde That man that wil do presumptuously not harkning vnto the priest that stādeth before the Lord thy God to minister there o al hashpat or to the iudge shall dye For it is euident that bloud-shed pertained to the iudge the descrying of plagues vnto the priest Likewise contentions being about diuerse matters those that concerned ciuil affaires pertained to the tēporall iudge other matters of faith were to be decided by the ecclesiasticall cēsure so that althogh we shuld grant thē a seignorie yet all causes are not to bee brought into their consistorie In the meane time we see that these men being at defiance with popery haue here shewed vs a reason of it because the both of them would iudge all and would be iudged by none both wold priuiledge their owne deedes and haue the handling of the causes of all others and therefore as in the Papist so in these we may see a sottish ignorance with an arrogant and presumptuous spirit Brownist Their Deacont must be men of honest report hauing the mysterie of the faith in a pure conscience endued with the holie Ghost they must be graue temperate not giuen to excesse nor to filthie lucre Answere VVhereas the office of a Deacon is here mentioned as distinct from the former it had beene requisite for the author more fully to haue expressed his minde for as touching Deacons it is generallie graunted of all writers that they were in the primitiue Church such as our author doth here speake of One saith that Presbyteri Episcopi Diaconi hoc est ministri Christi Elders Bishops and deacons that is to saie the ministers of Christ were names giuen generally to those that had to instruct the people And for proofe thereof he alleadgeth that of Paul to Timothie Ten diaconian sou plerophoreson Fulfilling thy ministerie yet he was the disposer of Gods mysteries at Ephesus Annother saith Primum omnes docebant omnes baptizabant quibuscunque diebus vel temporibus fuisset occasio nec enim Philippus tempus quaesiuit aut diem quo Eunuchum baptizaret At the first all taught and al baptized when wheresoeuer occasion was offered neither did Philip staie for a time nor a daie wherein to baptize the Eunuch Athanasius expoundeth that of Paul 1. Tim. 3. 8. where the Deacon is willed not to be double tongued as if the deacon were a teacher in the word and he himself in describing how he fled for̄ the Arrians sayth thus Monui Diaconum vt recitaret Psalmum populum item vt auscultaret c. I willed the Deacon to reade a Psalme and the people also to giue eare Therefore although master Caluine saieth that Diaconi sub Episcopo pauperum essent oeconumi Deacons shoulde vnder the Bishoppes be prouiders for the poore Yet seeing they dealte in other matters also and were called Diaconi because they were ministers of the worde also our author should haue shewed vs when it was that these Deacons ceased to deale in other matters then in prouision for the poore onely or else hee shoulde haue tolde vs that there are two sortes of Deacons Diaconoi tou logou minister of the vvord and ministers or disposers of the goods of the poore And these thinges hee must haue prooued by Gods worde and then in this pointe hee had perfourmed his promise made in the Title of his booke and shevved himselfe to be so good as his owne worde but nowe by what authoritie hee hath affirmed by the same authority may be denied such an office as is here spoken of to be that Deacon which is mētioned in the places cited Act. 6. For Philip who was one of the Deacons did both teach and baptize Act. 8. which matter although we should graunt that he did it not as a deacon but being an Euangelist as some with this distinction would shifte off the matter yet must it bee confessed that the Deacons mentioned in the Actes were not discharged from dealing in the word onely to take vpon them the care of the poore Neither doeth Paul 1. Tit. 3. 8. speake anie thing to gainesaie this Yet I grant that in the Church of God a care of the poore must bee had and that there be faithfull men appointed for the same of whom the Apostle speaketh Rom. 12. 8. which place cannot bee referred vnto the liberalitie of al Christians in general as some haue taught For this is handled in the thirtenth verse of the same chapter which shoulde haue beene done if there were not a difference betweene the matter required in the eight verse which speketh of the publike officer and the thirteenth verse which extendeth it selfe to all Christians for

of the church neither hath authoritie to make lawes ecclesiastical in the church they must acknowledge a dissent of iudgment amongst themselues or else confesse that there was a time when they were of another opinion but now they haue learned to be more wise yet the caueat that is giuen hath a secret meaning viz. a granting of the latter part of this article that her maiestie hath no authoritie to make anie lawes ecclesiasticall But this being so closely couered I minde not to see it I conceiue the best namely that as they yeelde more to her maiestie then of former times they haue done so will they in time grant her that right which is due vnto her roiall authoritie Of the ninth article they saie that the lavves ecclesiasticall vvherevvith our assemblies are guided are not deriued from the booke of God but culled out from that great Antichrists canons orders deuillish pollicies c. that they are the execrable wares of Antichrist statuts of Omry not to be receiued or obeied of anie that loue the Lord Iesus This article then is maintained by these men and not vniustly imputed to them But as touching this grieuous accusation we are here also to call to minde that the lawes of God are onely perfect the decrees and statutes of men though holy yet haue their wants In regard wherof I doe acknowledge a want of perfection but the deformitie of these laws doth seeme greater partly by the meanes of such as shoulde dispose them more vprightly and partly by reason of others who haue a malitious eie in beholding and an enuious tongue in reproching them Vnto the tenth article they answere that they neither looke for the reformation of Babel our false Church for so they tearme it nor take vpon them to intermeddle with the magistrates swoord but all that will bee saued must forsake the false church and by repentance come vnder Christs obedience to serue God aright in his true church c. Neither may they neglect the seruice of GOD nor the practise of any parte thereof c. Though the Prince shoulde inhibite c. So that they affirme that of their owne authority they are not only to separate themselues from vs but also to prctaise the discipline which they haue fansied though her maiestie shoulde inhibite the one or commaunde the other so that this article is not wrongfully fathered vpon them But before this article be granted vnto them as a true position they must not onelie conuince our church as out of the which there ought to be a departure but also they must proue that a priuate man may attempt reformation in the church contrarie to that which hath bene spoken To the eleuenth article they saie first that the presbyterie may not excommunicate any person by their sole power seeing Christ hath giuen this power to the whole church This is made more plaine in an other place where one of them saith that the least member of the church that is a communicant hath as much interest in all the censures of the church as the pastor Secondly they affirme that the prince if he will be a member of the church must be subiect to the censure in the church The which two positions being considered it shall be needlesse to open what these men would haue but of the authoritie of a priuat man hath ben spoken sufficiently heretofore To the twelfth they answer roundly in this sort as for your religion church sacramentes c. vve haue before shevved the forgerie of them vnto the vvhich former articles I referre the reader Euen so do I for I purpose not palinodiam can●re onely I say that amongst these twelue articles there is not one wherewith they are abused or vniustly charged and therefore are their exclamations before mentioned vaine There are in the ende of the foresaid pamphlet other twelue articles not vnlike to the former which they tearme slanderous articles also forged against them as if they did not hold them which are these 1 THey hold that the Lords praier or anie set praier is blasphemie and they neuer vse anie praier for the Queene as supreame head vnder Christ of the church of England 2 That all set praiers or stinted praies or read seruice are but meere babling in Gods sight and plaine Idolatrie 3 They teach there is no head or supreame gouernor of the church of Christ and that the Queene hath none authoritie in the church to make lavves ecclesiasticall 4 They teach that a laie man may beget faith and that vve haue no need of publike administration 5 They condemne all comming to Church al preaching all institution of Sacraments and saie that all the ministers vvere sent by God in his anger to deceiue the people 6 They affirme that the people must reforme the church and not tarie for the magistrate and that the Primitiue church sued not to courts and parliaments nor vvaited vpon princes pleasures but vve make Christ to attend vppō princes to be subiect to their lavvs gouernment 7 That the booke of common praier is a pregnant Idol full of abhominations a peece of svvines flesh and abhomination to the Lord. 8 They saie it is a greater sinne to go to the church to publik praiers then for a mā to lie vvith his fathers vvife 9 Those that vvil not refrain from our churches preaching or seruice they giue vnto the deuil excōmunicat 10 They hold it not lavvfull to baptise children among vs they neuer haue anie sacrament among them 11 They refuse to take an oath to be examined 12 They vvill not marrie amongst vs in our churches but resort to the Fleet to other places to bee married by one Greenwood and Barrow All which whether these men are vniustly blamed with them or do hold them as firme as they do the former Articles I leaue vnto the consideration of all men Their iudgemēt cōcerning the two first articles hath bene set downe alredie for they do little differ from those two positions set downe in the former place Likewise concerning the third article we haue had their minde in the eight article so that it shall be needlesse either to shew again that those are by their desert imputed vnto them or that in maintaining thē their warrants be of smal force And the fourth article is so far from being an vngodly calumniation against thē y t they hold it not only a possible thing for a priuate man to beget faith but also lawfull for him to preach the word interpret the scriptures in publike assemblies Wherin a question might be moued what is the differēce betwene him y t is Leitourgos a minister of Christ in their publike functiō euery priuate man in the congregation both hauing equall authoritie as well in preaching as in the censures of the church Also what these priuate men are to be esteemed in preaching whether ministers or no ministers vnto the people whom