in their printed Supplication against all the new Iulianistes and Atheists mentioned CHAP. XXII They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to their pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall IN the beginning of the reformation of Religion in Germany the learned men there opposing themselues verie mightely against the Popes vsurped iurisdiction did verie learnedly and soundlie shew and proue to their aduersaries the soueraigne authority of Christian Kinges and Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall within their owne dominions and countries Which authoritie vppon the banishment of the Pope as well there as after also in England was both there and here vnited by diuerse laws vnto the interest of their Crowns and to the lawfull right of ciuile regiment This doctrine since that time hath beene so very throughly maintained by sundrie notable men as Brentius against Asoto Bishop Horne against Fecknam Bishop Iuell against Harding and many other learned men against such other Papistes as haue taken vppon them to impugne it that I am perswaded had it not beene that newe aduersaries did rise opposed themselues in the matter the Papists before this time had beene vtterlie subdued For either vppon the attempt in Geneua for the erecting of the Consistorian gouernment which cannot endure any superior authority ouer it in causes Ecclesiasticall when Caluin and Viretus were banished the Citty or else vppon their restitution and after they had preuailed in their said attempt the Ministers there whether in reuenge of their banishment or least their Magistrats should at any time to come giue eare to the aforesaide Doctrine I will not saye but vppon some such occasion they did presentlie thrust themselues into this question that with such spitefull railing and bitternes as though they had conspired with the Pope and his Proctors against al other reformed churches that reiecting their pretended Discipline or new Papacie indeed had submitted themselues vnto the said lawfull authority of Christian Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall And hereof it came to speake the trueth plainelie that Caluin could not abide that King Henrye the eight should bee tearmed the head or supreme gouernour in Earth of the Churches of God within his Dominions And writing to one Myconius how certaine men in Geneua perswaded the Magistrates there Ne potestate quam illis Deus contulisset se abdicaerent that they woulde not depriue themselues of that authoritie which God had giuen them he tearmeth them according to the Consistorian language prophane spirites and mad men whom saith he if we speaking of himselfe and his fellowes shall ioine together to encounter and with a valiant and inuincible zeale fight for that holy authority vz. CoÌ„sistorian c the Lord with the breath of his mouth will destroy The saide Myconius in like sorte reporteth to Caluin from Basill how some in those borders did write to the like purpose in the behalfe of Christian Magistrates alledging the examples of Moises Dauid and other godlye Kinges which saith hee in effect is to make them Popes and then addeth quid si laici huiusmodi argumentis fuerint persuasi what if lay men shall be perswaded by such argumentes Indeede that will cutte the throate of all your soueraigntie But of all others that haue opposed themselues to Christian Princes in this matter besides Martin-Marre-Prelate and some such like companions amongest vs Viretus for rayling scoffing and biting passeth and excelleth Those that stand in defence of the Magistrates authoritie he resembleth to white Diuels and saith They are false Christians though they couer themselues with the cloake of the Gospell and the reformation of the same And againe The Ministers that haue forsaken the Romish Church in seeking to get the Magistrates and peoples fauour against the Pope Priestes and Monkes haue so despised the state of Priestood and Ministery of the Church and so magnified the state of the Magistrate that they now feele the fruict thereof he meaneth that the goods of the Church are thereby gone and wasted Further saith he they thought it a goodby reformation in the Churche to abolishe all the Canons and decrees with the good Statutes which the auncient Fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to maintaine good Discipline in the Church They haue put all into the Magistrates handes and haue made them maisters of the Church which he tearmeth to be nothing else but the changing of the Popedome the taking away of both swordes from the Pope and giuing them to Princes the euerthrowing of a spirituall Pope and setting vppe a temporall Pope which vnder another colour will all come to one end Nay hee taketh vppon him to prooue that these Temporall Popes as hee tearmeth them are more to bee feared if they take roote and will be worse theâ— the Spirituall Popes and that so the olde Popishe â—yr 〈◊〉 is not taken awaie but onely changed and disguised And his reasons are First that the olde Pope had not the Temporall sworde in his own hand to punishe with death but was fayne to praye aide of the secular power which the neâ—e Pope's need not to doe Secondly that the olde Popes had some regarde in their dealinges of Councelles Synodes and aunciente Canons c. but the newe Popes will doe what they list without any Ecclesiasticall order bee it right or wronge Thirdlye because it chaunceth ofte that these newâ— Popes haue neither learning nor knowledge and yet these shall bee they that shall commaund Ministers and Preachers what they list on paine of their sworde and ministerie and shall appoint them lawes touching their estate and ministery and likewise to the whole Church Giue him also the hearing a little further I praie you Who so vseth such meanes to reforme the fault of the Pope doth not reforme the Church but deforme is more then it was before c. This I dare say that I see already in some places that vnder title of reformation by the Gospell some christian Princes haue in ten or twentie yeares vsurped more tyranny ouer the Churches in their Dominions then euer the Pope and his adherentes did in sixe hundred yeares And lastly If there be any Magistrates in these daies which vnder the title of authority and power that God hath giuen them c. will make the Ministers of the Church subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made them subiect to him and his c. the same doe verily set vp a newe Pope changing onely his coate and maske And thus far Viretus in his thirde Dialogue of white Diuels which was not written I feare by the instinct of anie good spirite nor without some euill direction translated into English of purpose to seede the seditious fier that our turbulent Copper-smiths following this Dâ—sciplinarie tract haue kindled alreadie amongest vs. I haue omitted his earnestnes in the behalfe of his own and Caluins Discipline that the authority thus denied to Princes might be yeelded to them and
therefore we confesse that their subiectes ought to obey their ciuile commaundements which may be kept without the breach of Gods law and that not onely for feare but also for conscience sake Thus farre Zanchius whose iudgement in this pointe will be esteemed of I suppose hereafter when all that either is or can be sayd by any man to the contrary will fall to the ground or vanish like smoake If it be saide that Zanchius writeth truely but that my allegation of his wordes is altogether impertinent for that the Bishops of Geneua had neuer any setled right in the ciuile gouernement of that citty I am not the man that will either iustify mine owne discretion or impugne any thinge which may bee brought for the ciuile proceedinges of that state or of any other so as they carry no false groundes of Diuinity with them which may prooue daungerous vnto our owne such as haue bene since published for the authorizing of subiectes in many cases to depose their Princes Christ refused to be a deuider of priuate mens inheritances and then surely it doth not become me to be a decider of any titles to countries citties or kingdomes I pray for all and will not further meddle with any Now it remaineth that hauing made relation vnto you of the premises as you haue heard I should also acquaint you more particularly with the alteration that was made at Geneua in the order and forme of the gouernemente of the Church Wherein you shall finde some greater variety both of actions and pollicy M. Beza speaking of the reformation of religion in that citty sayth that Christes Gospell was established there mirabiliter wonderously A wonder the common saying is doth last but nine dayes but that wonderfull course which he speaketh of will not bee forgotten I suppose in hast As you haue heard that the Bishop of Geneua was dealt withall for the principality of that City so was he vsed as touching his Bishopricke The Ministers cryed out that his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was as vnlawfull as his ciuile Wherevpon the Bishopricke was dissolued and that forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vtterly abolished whereby that citty had bene ruled in church-Church-causes from the time that first it receiued the profession of christianity Together with the ouerthrow of which Bishopricke all the orders constitution and lawes of the Church which had beene in framing by all the learned men in christendome euer since the Apostles times were at one stroake quite chopte of and wholy abrogated vnder pretence forsooth of the name of cannon lawes the popes lawes and I wot not what Wherein the ministers dealt as wisely in mine opinion as if some king succeeding fower or fiue of his predecessors whome he hated should therevpon ouerthrow all the lawes that eyther they or any other of his predecessors had euer made before him Maister Caluin being charged by some as it seemeth with the rashnesse which was vsed at Geneua in this point doth excuse it thus in effect vz. that they deale therein as men doe with rotten houses they ouerthrewe all the whole forme of ecclesiasticall building as once as it were into a rude heape out of the which they might the better make choyse and take of that olde stuffe as much as liked them to build withall againe afterward Indeede there are many builders in these dayes of such a kinde of humor Nothing will content them but that they build themselues And therein also they are very inconstant Now this must downe now that must vppe now this must bee chaunged and that must bee enlarged here the workemen mistooke me this is not in good proportion away with it I will haue this square chaunged into a rounde and this rounde altered into a square A fitter metaphore could not well haue beene found to haue shewed the vnstayed minds of such manner of reformers But to proceed The auncient forme of ecclesiasticall gouernement with all the Elders thereof being thus ouerturned as the citezens in the framing of their newe ciuill gouernement had an especiall eye to the manner of the ciuill gouernement of their neighbour citties and states adioyning so had both the magistrates and the ministers at the first also great regard of the ecclesiasticall pollicy in the same citties relying principally vppon their forme of Church-gouernement and vppon their orders and ceremonyes in that behalfe prouided But this Church Modell was also shortly after wholy misliked For the ministers perceiued that as they thought the ciuill magistrats had too great authorie giuen vnto them in church-causes that they themselues had a great deale too little Maister Caluin speaking of this manner of reformation calleth it but a correcting of the Church And Beza yeeldeth a reason why Farellus Viretus contented thēselues with such a simple Church-gouernement vz. in effecte to my vnderstanding not that they were ignorant what insufficiency there was in it but because in such a hurly burly and great chaunge of things they could haue no better and afterwardes when they woulde faine haue bettered themselues the rest of the ministers that should haue ioyned with them therein were fearefull to attempt so soone any new alteration The same yeare that Geneua was assaulted vz. 1 5 3 6. Maister Caluin came thether and was there admitted non concionator tantum hoc enim primum recusarat sed etiam sacrarum liter arum doctor not onely for their preacher for he had refused that before but also for a doctor of the holy scriptures In which place hee was scarcely warme when like a man of courage reiecting all feare hee tooke in hand to frame a new platforme for the gouernement of that Church or as Maister Bezaes word is ecclesiam componere to compound the Church being of likelyhood before in his opinion tanquam dissoluta scopa as a dissolute Chaos and vndigested bundell And in very short time hee did so farre prouaile therein as that hee caused the cittizens being assembled together to abiure their former popish gouernement as they termed it by Bishops and to sweare to a certaine draught of discipline paucis capitibus comprehensam comprehended as Beza saith vnder a fewe heades What the forme of this draught was I finde it not any where mentioned But whatsoeuer it was it appeareth that both he Farellus and Viretus so vsed themselues in the administration of it as that the rest of the ministers and the chiefest of the cittie grew quickly very weary of it For through their rough dealing in diuers pointes especially in opposing themselues against the orders of Berne before that time receiued there and particularly for their obstinate refusing to administer the Lordes supper with vnleauened bread according to a resolution giuen to that effecte by a Synode at Lausanna of the ministers of Berne which resolution since Beza calleth iniquissimum decretum for these and such like causes I say they were al three of them within nine monethes after
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
their followers and that all men both Princes and others would be content to submitte their neckes vnder that yoke Which were to make Princes saith Erastus trulie quasi carniâ—ices as it were the executioners onely of their pleasures quemadmâ—dunâ— in Papatu factum videmus as we see it practised in the Papacy and in truth is nothing els but that I may vse their phrases to banish one Pope and admitte of thousands or to deliuer their Scepters from the tyrannie of the old Pope and to subiect them to the tyranny of these new Popes euen to excommunication as Cartwright with his English crue doe affirme and so consequently to depriuation or death as Buchanan the Scottishe Consistorian teacheth My purpose is only in this place to make it knowne from whence our brotherhood haue furnished themselues with their inuectiues against the authoritye of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall and that whatsoeuer they pretend in words yet they are of the same minde that Viretus is if they durst so plainly vtter it Or if they be not let them confes in print that the premisses cited out of his sayde dialogue are false and then for that pointe let them be credited But that I am perswaded they will neuer doe I am sure if they should that besides their opposition with Geneua they should also recant their owne assertions which directly exclude the ciuile magistrates from dealing in ecclesiasticall causes As for example The whole gouernment of the Church is to be committed to Ministers Elders Deacons The church is now to the worldes end to haue no other offices in it but of pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons They which are no Elders of the Church haue nothing to doe in the gouernment of the same They deuide the Church wherein anye Magistrate King or Emperor is a member into those which are to gouerne vz. Pastors Doctors and Elders and into such as are to obey vz. magistrates of all sortes the people Indeed Beza will haue the ciuile magistrate one of the Church-officers But Cartwright will not consent for his part to yeald them so much For saith he as Pastors cannot bee officers of the common wealth no more can the magistrate bee called properlye a church-officer And in truth what Beza graunteth it is in effect nothing sauing for a shew and to serue their own turnes forsooth vt tranquillitatem ecclesiae procurent â—t tueantur Their office is to procure and defend the peace of the Church whereas else where hee agreeth with Viretus yee may bee sure and in his Booke against Erastus peremptorily affirmeth That Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church then Ministers haue with the affayres of the common wealth Which by their doctrine generallie is none at all But saide I hee agreeth with Viretus I might saie rather with Cardinall Allen and Saunders if he bee the author of the Booke intituled Vindicie contra Tyrannos as it was reported For there hee saith that if anie Prince shall challenge to himselfe both Tributes that is authoritie aswell in Ecclesiasticall causes as ciuile as by the circumstances of the place it is euident hee doth as if hee would like the old Giaunts scale heauen and surprise it and is guiltie of treason and doth thereby forfeite his fee that hee holdeth no lesse than a subiect or vassall shall that vsurpeth the kinges royaltyes and in this respect such kinges are very often depriued thereof much more iustlye then a vassall or subiecte maye bee insomuch as there is some proportion of comparison betwixte a vassall or subiect and his Lorde but betwixt God and the king betwixt a wretched man and the Almightie there can bee no proportion at all Furthermore Cartwright and some others with him do affirme that Kings and princes do holde their kingdomes and dominions vnder Christ as hee is the sonne of God onlye before all worldes coequall with the father and not as hee is mediator the heade and gouernor of the Church Whereuppon they doe first builde that all Kinges aswell heathen as Christian receiuing but one commission and equall authoritie immediately from God haue no more to doe with the Church the one sorte then the other as being in no respect deputed for Church officers vnder Christ otherwise then if they bee good Kinges to maintaine and defende it And secondlye that as God hath appoynted all Kinges and Ciuile Magistrates his immediate Lieutenants for the gouernment of the worlde in temporall causes so Christ as hee is mediator and gouernour of his Church hath his immediate officers to rule in the Church vnder him and those they saie are no other then Pastors Doctors and Elders to whom they ascribe as large authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall And all this as I take it they haue learned of the Papists For whereas maister Harding saith that the office of a King in it selfe is all one euerie where not onely amongst the Christian Princes but also amonge the Heathen and thereuppon concludeth that a christian Prince hath no more to doe in the deciding of church-matters or in making ceremonies and orders for the Church then a Heathen Cartwright alloweth of his iudgement and doth expresly affirme that hee himselfe is of the same opinion professing his mislike of those who teach another right of a Christian and of a prophane magistrate Whereat Trauerse his scholler aymeth in like sorte when hee saith in effect that heathen princes being conuerted to the fayth receiue no further increase of theyr power whereby they maye deale in causes ecclesiasticall then they had before And lastly it is no lesse agreeable vnto their seconde assertion that whereas the Papists saye the Pope with his Cardinalls and Bishops are a true representation of the Catholicke Church of Christ vnder whom the Pope being Peters supposed Successor is the ministeriall and immediate chiefe gouernour of it here vppon earth now Cartwright and others doe affirme that euerye particular parish hauing such an Eldershippe in it as they desire is a liuelye patterne and representation of the whole and catholicke Church of Christe vnder whom saye they their Pastors Doctors and Elders are the ministeriall and immediate gouernours by right of euery such Catholicke parish-Church vppon earth And thus if I bee not deceiued that playnelye appeareth which was in the beginning of this Chapter propounded vz. that for all their protestations they derogate from Christian Princes and arrogate to their Elderships the supreame and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes ecclesiasticall CHAP. XXIII In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists THere is nothing will lightlye anger our pretended Brotherhood more then if ti be tolde them that they denie in effect with the common aduersaries her Maisties lawefull stile and prerogatiue Royall in causes ecclesiasticall Oâ— saye they wee doe not wee are slaundered wee yealde vnto her Highnes
hands the carefull charge or procuration of Churches as pertaining to their dutie Good Kings and Princes do maintain true religion and by the aduise of their priests vvhen any great defections happen do pull dovvn the false And where Cartvvright doth charge the Papists to constraine their Princes for the keeping of their decrees be they good or bad although it be true in deed that they do so and that those of his owne stampe likewise vvhere they raigne are nothing more fauourable vnto them as farre as their might will reach yet as he doth in this matter prefer himselfe and his adherents before them it is but a meere cauil For the Papists holding this ground that their Councels and Popes in such their decrees and conclusions as it pleaseth them to make cannot erre that being graunted it followeth of necessitie that euery Christian Prince ought to put them in execution and to punish those that shall oppose themselues against them So that vvhatsoeuer they do impose vpon the Church they affirme it is good euen as Cartvvright doth his discipline which he would intrude vpon vs both of them ioining in this point that as wel Cartvvrights new ministery as the popes priesthood will be the iudges of their owne decrees whether they be good or bad and then what leaue they to the Christian magistrat more the one sort then the other Surely this wall riseth very slowly as yet but peraduenture the third part will be higher thē the other two when you haue viewed them iudge Our meaning is not sayth Cartvvright vtterly to seclude the magistrat out of our church-meetings for often times a simple man as the prouerbe sayth the Gardiner hath spoken to good purpose c. He may be assistant and haue his voice in such assemblies Out of question you deale very bountifully with your soueraign But to helpe him in building this part of his wall I will set downe what is the vttermost that he yeeldeth to herein if hee haue not retracted the same as afterward it shall be considered The Prince may call a councell of the ministerie and appoint both the time and the houres for the same The ciuile magistrat is not vtterly to be excluded from such assemblies as do meet for the deciding of church-causes and orders he may be there assistant and haue his voice but he may not be either moderator there nor determiner nor iudge Neither may the orders or decrees there made be sayd to haue bene done by the Princes authoritie And therefore in times past the cannons of councels vvere not called the Emperors but the Bishops decrees Princes may be assistant in councels and ought to defend the same assembled if any behaue themselues there tumultuously or othervvise disorderly the Prince may punish him The Prince ought to confirme the decrees of such councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Thus hereof Cartvvright and now come in the papists It vvas lavvfull in times past for emperors to call councels to appoint both time and place for the same And maister Harding confesseth that princes may do so still by the aduise of the clergie Princes and their embassadors according to their estates haue most honourable seats in all councels may sit there as assistants giue their aduises make exhortations to the Bishops to be very circumspect and carefull and in the end may subscribe vvith them to the causes there decreed But they may not sit there as iudges moderators or determiners and therfore in their subscriptions they vvrōt not as bishops did definientes subscripsimus but consentientes Neither vvere the councels called Imperatoria but Episcopalia Princes may be assistant in councels Nay sayth Saunders they may be presidents ouer Bishops in councels ad pacem concordiam retinendam vt nullum fieri tumultum permittant tumultuantem vero custodiae mancipent and cause such assemblies to auoid all delaies All Christian princes ought to confirme the decrees of generall councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Compare these places with Cartvvrights words and tell me what great difference ye find betweene them But what if Cartvvright as I sayd haue retracted these points then it must needs be confessed that the Papists do yeeld more to Christian princes in causes ecclesiastical then the puritans CHAP. XXIIII Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of Princes in church-church-causes and in the aduancing of their ovvn IT appeareth in the latter end of the two and twentith chapter how by a fine distinction of raigning vnder Christ as he is onely God and vnder Christ as he is mediator they first would exclude all Christian princes from their lawfull authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall ascribing no more vnto them then as if they were heathens except it be to execute their pleasures and to maintaine them which they say is the dutie also of all the heathen rulers and secondly how by the same distinctiō they lift vp their own horns as if it were so many popes challenging euery one of them together with their elderships to be Christs immediat vicars for church-causes vpon earth In the substance of which doctrine although they do all agree yet when they come to the particular grounds whervpō they would gladly lay their foundations of it there they are distracted and do confound themselues I meane not to enter here any further into this matter then as cōcerning the sayd distinction with the seuerall branches thereof Cartvvright bestoweth soure leaues to prooue that no ciuile magistrat may be called the head of the particular church within his dominion And his cheefest reasons are drawn from the parts of the distinction mentioned Now when he laboureth so much vpon this word head hee knoweth that we meane thereby nothing els but a chiefe authoritie and he wrangleth of purpose that whereas his opinion is direct that no ciuile magistrat as he is a ciuile magistrat hath any office in the Church he might dazle the eies of his reader as though he could bee content to maintaine the right of the crowne and did only insist vpon the word head But to muster them together about the said distinction Cartvvright sayth that our Sauiour Christ as hee is the sonne of God only or as he is onely the Creator and preseruer of mankind coequall vvith his father he is the gouernour of kingdoms and common-vvealths and not as hee is the sauiour and redeemer of mankind But the humble motioner doth tell vs from Scotland another tale peraduenture vpon the credit of the brethren there Christ sayth he hath all povver and superioritie aboue all principalities either in heauen or in earth he is Lord of lords and King of kings and the Prince of kings in the earth he is Lord of all kingdoms and common-vvealths to dispose and rule them at his pleasure
and ordination of Ministers and of theyr disagreement about the same Cap. 16. fol. 183. Of theyr Aldermens ioynt-office with the ministers in binding loosing of sins of their disagreemēt therin C. 17. f. 190 Of the first institution of the old Deacons and of the disagreemēt about the new disciplinary Deacons Cap. 18. fol. 198 Of certayne Widdows which are made Church-officers of the disagreement which is about them Cap. 19. fol. 215. Of the charge to bee imposed vppon euery parish by meanes of the pretended Eldership Cap. 20. fol. 227. Of theyr desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might bee restored againe to the mayntenance of theyr Elderships Cap. 21. fol. 233 They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to theyr pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall Cap. 22. fol. 250. In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists Cap. 23. fol. 258. Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of princes in church-church-causes in the aduancing of their own C. 24. f. 268 In what causes more particularly theyr Elderships are to deale as they pretend Cap. 25. fol. 281. Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues Cap. 26. fol. 298 How they deale with the auncient Fathers Ecclesiasticall Histories and generall Councels when they are alledged against them Cap. 27. fol. 329. Theyr dealing with all the new writers and manye reformed churches when they make against them Cap. 28. fol. 354. Howe they depend vppon theyr owne Synodes and fauourers Cap. 29. fol. 364. How falsely they alledge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish-Bishops and Elders Cap. 30. fol. 381. How and with what disagreement they wrest and misconstrue the Scriptures in the behalfe of theyr discipline C. 31. f. 396. What account the solliciters for this pretended gouernement doe make each of other Cap. 32. fol. 416. Of the prayse disprayse of this pretended regiment C. 33. f. 421 Of theyr disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernement Cap. 34. fol. 436. Of the pretended commoditie that the Elderships would bringe with them and of the small fruites that they bringe foorth where they are Cap. 35. fol. 450. FINIS CHAP. I. Howe vnder pretence of the Prophetes loue to Syon some men would gladly set vp their owne fancies THe holy Prophet Esay foreseeing the miserable captiuitie which the Iews for their transgressions were to sustaine vnder the kinges of Babell did thinke it necessary to prepare their heartes to patience by assuring them that the Lord in his due time would worke their ioyfull and happy deliuerance To the which purpose amongst many other most notable perswasions prophecies he vseth these wordes for Syons sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forth as the light and saluation therof as a burning lampe that is donec erigam piorum animos spe futurae salutis c vntill I may confirme the minds of the godly saith Caluin with the hope of their restitution againe so as they may vnderstand and be fully perswaded that God will be the deliuerer of his Church The false Prophet H.N. the moste illuminated father of the family of loue counterfaiting the imitation of the Prophet of God in this place doth take vppon him to tell the world of a farre greater captiuitie not of 70. yeares but of more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that is euer since the Apostles times Wherein saith he darkenes of error hath ouershadowed the earth lumen vitae incognitum factum est the light of life hath been made vnknowen and the trueth hath been hid as vnder the maske of Popery vntill this day of loue He turneth the whole doctrine of our saluation into a vaine mysterie an allegoricall conceit of his own leauing the Church no mediator at all besides himselfe He hath framed a platforme or new kingdome and gospell of his owne inuention bearing this title Euangelium regni dei the gospell of the kingdome of God Into this kingdome as Vicegerentes he hath brought for our ministers his seniores sanctae intelligentiae Elders of the holy vnderstanding patres familiae Christi fathers of the family of Christ and for our Archbishops and Bishops his Primates or principall Elders his seniores parentes Elder fathers and I know not how many illuminated and deified gouernours And perseuering in these and in many other such like very grosse fond imaginations he lewdly presumeth to apply the said place of the Prophet to himselfe and his owne conceites for the better animating of his followers to sticke fast vnto him saying O Syon tua causa non silebo c O Syon for thy sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes thereof breake forth as the light saluation thereof as a burning lampe that is in effect vntill the holy gouernment of the family of loue bee established vppon the earth T.C. a man I confesse not to be sorted with H.N. were it not vpon this occasion wil needs take vpō him likewise the person of the Prophet and to aduertise vs of a wonderfull seruitude that hath continued in the Church of God in effect with H.N. from the apostles times also which yet remaineth as he saith in the church of England From the which seruitude he reckoneth that it shall neuer be deliuered vntill it submit it selfe to be newly reformed again by the aduise of his deepe vnderstanding assisted with those that diligently wait vpon his illuminated deuises after the maner of Geneua To winne himselfe therefore the better credite for bringing this to passe hee laieth about him and would haue al things turned topsie turuie as they say euen the vpside downe Our ministery their callings our seruice our sacraments and all we haue is out of ioint Councels fathers histories they are but dishcloutes with him he shaketh them off as it were with a shrugge they are indeed as after it shal appeare no body in his handes but he flingeth them here and there at his pleasure He in like sorte with the assistance of his partakers hath framed after the fashion of Geneua a platforme and newe kingdome or rather an infinite number of litle petite kingdomes but yet euery one of them of an absolute power aswell ouer Lordes Earles Dukes Princes Kinges and Kingdomes as ouer the meanest whosoeuer vnder them This kingdome he would impose vpon this land Wherein for our Archbishops Bishops ministers c hee placeth his graund Elders whome he tearmeth pastors his second sort of Elders whome he tearmeth Doctors his third sorte of Elders whome he tearmeth Gouernors ioyning vnto them Deacons to carry their purses and widdows to wash their feete where neede shall require And with this deuise he is so possessed that hee
their setting vppe of their short plat of discipline bannished the cittie The causes before mentioned of this their bannishment were giuen out thus in generall termes Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem voluerunt nouum pontificatum reuocare They would haue beene tyrants ouer a free cittie they would haue recalled a new papacy And here beganne the Consistorian humor which raigneth nowe amongst the factious sorte in England to shew it selfe but yet in a more secrete sorte by their priuate letters one to an other Their fauourers and partakers whome they lefte behinde them at Geneua presently after their departure entered into faction and refused to receiue the communion with vnleauened bread as it had beene ordered they should doe by the said Synode at Lausanna The ministers that remained in the cittie after them were greatly disgraced For in that they continued their ministery there without the newe Discipline they were said to hold otiosam functionem an idle function The Senate of two hundred that expelled the said three preachers was termed by Caluin tumultuos a perditorum hominum factio a tumultuoas faction of rakehells castaway es Beza saith that in that councell the greater part ouercame the better But then by the way they were not all of them such manner of men as Caluin reporteth The chiefest magistrates of the cittie euen the Syndickes were termed factionum et discordiarum duces the ringleaders of factions and dissentions They were resembled to Nabucadnezar and the exiles to Daniell And generally they gaue it out against all their backe frendes that they went about to ouerthrowe the Church and that they had obdurated themselues against the Lord Iesus Christ. These and such like speaches you must thinke were giuen out then secretly but since they are published in printe for other ministers instructions which may hereafter receiue any checke about that kinde of discipline Hetherto for ought I finde the pretended discipline had no great successe I must therfore proceede on forward These three preachers being thus banished their friendes at Geneua were maruailous earnest to haue them thither againe Many letters were procured from certaine churches and learned men to the magistrates in that behalfe as you shall partly perceaue by diuerse epistles set out vnder the title or together with Caluins epistles Euery one likewise in the Cittie that held for the discipline did his best with the people But Maister Caluin was the man whom they all of them most desired for the rest being else where placed they cared not much Vnto these endeuours may be added some very wise courses taken by Maister Caluin in the time that he discontinued from Geneua Cardinall Sadolet hauing written to the Geneuians in dislike of the alteration both of their state and of the Romish religion admonishing them to returne to their olde byace Maister Caluin aunswered him and iustified as he thought meete their proceedinges therein to their very good contentment Also where some that of his owne friends had greatly laboured to discredite the ministers of that cittie which were lefte to the griefe of the magistrates endeuoured to haue brought them vtterly into contempt for executing their ministerie without the pretended Discipline c. Maister Caluin staied that course by writing vnto them that he doubted not but that their ministers deliuered vnto them the chiefe heads of Christian religion which were necessary to saluation and that also they ioyned thereunto the right vse of the Sacramentes And then saith he where those two pointes are performed illic substantia ministery viget there is the substance of the ministerie and a lawfull honour and obedience is to be giuen to that Ministery Lastly the mutinie mentioned which was about refusall to communicate with vnleauened bread he likewise appeased by perswading the authours of it that it was a matter of indifferencie for the which they ought not to disquiet the peace of the Church By which occasions together with the former sutes mentioned the Citie as I iudge hauing conceaued a better opinion of maister Caluin then they had before and supposing that if he came againe amongst them he would vse a great deale more mildnesse and moderation in his proceedinges then hee had earst done they were at the last contented after two yeares bannishment and more to recall him vnto them vz in the yeare 1541. Whilest his friendes were labouring for him as you haue heard he himselfe perceiuing that hee shoulde returne thither was still harping to his friendes vppon this string how he might haue the Citie so bound to the forme of Discipline which he had in his head as that afterwardes they might not when they list start from it And therefore as soone as he was come thither hee imployed his studie that way especially At the first offering of his paines to the Senate he told him that the Church there could not possibly continue except there were same certaine forme of Church gouernement established Whereupon the Senate ordered at his request that he and fiue other of the Ministers should conferre together about such a forme as they thought meet and that hauing so done they should offer the same to the consideration of the said Senate Here then you shall see the strength of maister Caluins wit He wisely saw that notwithstanding the Bishops ecclesiasticall authoritie had been vtterly disgraced and was thereupon reiected as being forsooth Popish and tyrannicall yet it was not good for the Church that the ministers should bate the citie one ace of an ecclesiasticall authoritie aequiualent at the least to that which their Bishops formerly had enioyed amongest them Howbeit he well perceiued withall that for the bringing of this matter about there must be verie good pollicie and circumspection vsed or else that it would be a thing impossible to bring a people hauing gotten their libertie into the like or a worse seruitude then they were in before His plot therefore as I take it was as followeth He laboured to perswade the people and the Magistrates that as there was a ciuile Senate for the gouernement of the Citie and the territories thereof in ciuile causes so by the word of God there should be an ecclesiasticall Senate for the gouernment of the same Citie and territories conteining aboue twentie parishes in causes ecclesiasticall And to this purpose he wanted not I warrant you very many probable reasons The persons that should beare authoritie in this Senate I nothing doubt but that he could haue been very well contented they should haue been all of them ministers euen as the ciuile gouernment did then wholly consist of ciuile persons But by reason of the great authoritie that the preachers had before intituled the ciuile magistrates vnto for the bannishment of their Bishop for their dealing in Church causes wherewithall they were in some sorte possessed hee very wisely considered with Farellus and Viretus that if they tooke that course
they should finde vnresistable opposition And therefore they deuised a way which if they could obtaine should bee in effect all one as if they had been all Ministers and yet shoulde carrie such an outward shewe as though there had been no such matter intended And their deuise was that their ecclesiasticall Senate should consist of twelue Citizens to be chosen yearely not out of the baser sort of the people but out of the ciuile councels of the Citie all of them to be states men and but of sixe Ministers who were to continue for their liues except there fell out some occasion to remoue them With this inuention after many perswasions vsed both publickly in the pulpit and priuately vppon euery occasion the Cittizens at length were contented They sawe there should bee twelue of them continually as any matters should fall out to sixe ministers which was oddes inough They imagined that notwithstanding they yealded to such a platforme for the satisfiyng of their Ministers importunitie when they sawe that needes they would be some body amongest them yet they should in effect keepe the raines still in their owne handes and be able to curbe them at their pleasure Vpon these and what other such like considerations I knowe not but after maister Caluins very great paines taken about that matter insomuch as hee was therewith all almost oppressed the Cittie at the length was induced to admit of their platforme with the lawes and prerogatiues thereunto appertaining And this was the first time for ought I finde that the pretended consistorian Discipline euer drew breath Maister Caluin hauing thus as you haue seene preuailed in this attempt it was not long after but that the wiser sort of the Citie perceiued their owne ouersight For vnder pretence of ecclesiasticall causes there was nothing done in the Citie which this newe Senate misliked but by one meanes or other they drewe it vnto their cognizance They would say that this and that was an offence to the godly and then forthwith it was a cause for the Consistorie Besides the maner of their proceedings in such causes as were brought before them was altogether misliked They endeuoured by all their deuises to winne the people vnto them If any of the Magistrates fell into their handes especially if they had no good opinion of them they were sure to pay for it A very rigorous course was held with certaine of the chiefe of that Citie about their dauncinges vpon a certaine time priuately in one of their friendes houses as you may read in the 26. chapter following And their especiall drift therein besides their affectionate dealing vpon a quarrell towardes one of them was as I take it to curry fauour with the multitude Oh saith Caluin writing how like men both he and his associates had proceeded in this dauncing matter exemplum valde proderit c. the example will do much good For now it is alreadie a common saying amongest the people nullam esse spem impunitatis cum primarijs non parcatur that there is no hope of impunitie seeing the chiefe men of the Citie are not spared But you will say howe came it to passe that the twelue Elders all of them states-men would suffer such things to be done in that Senate as should breede such discontentment amongest the Citizens You may remember that I tolde you howe maister Caluin in this matter shewed his great wit and ouerreached the Citizens notably He was not ignorant how easy a matter it would proue for him and his fellow ministers to ouer-rule twelue simple men all of them vnlearned as being either apronmen artizans or marchantes But his chiefest reach was that he knewe these twelue graund gouernours woulde certainely remember that their office was but annuall and that if they opposed themselues against their ministers being theyr superiours in office and whose authoritie was still to continue they might afterwardes peraduenture be caused to repent it And in deede according to his good foresight so it came to passe which encreased the cittizens generall discontentement and dislike of that manner of Church-gouernement Besides an other thinge there was that especially grieued them and disclosed their want of prouidence They saw their cittizens of that Senate not onely ouer-ruled by the said six ministers but likewise all the ministers so ouertopped by Maister Caluin as that in effect he was Domine fac totum tooke vpon him to doe all in all Wherevpon there were some that beganne to feare least as I suppose Maister Caluin sought by his cunning to bring them againe to the gouernement of one which they alltogether detested Thus he himselfe reporteth in effect of this matter vz. that there was a supplication found which was meant to haue beene exhibited to the people at their most generall assembly wherein these two propositions were contayned Nihil esse legibus vindicandum nisi quod rempub laederet that nothing was to be punished by lawe but that which did hurt the common wealth And the other periculum esse ne dum haec vrbs vnius hominis melancholici cerebro obtemperat excitata seditione perdat mille ciues that there was daunger least whilest the cittie obeyed the brayne of one melancholy man vppon some rebellion raysed it might ouerthrowe a thousand cittizens But it will be said that Maister Caluin reporteth this as a slaunder I confesse he doth so And yet for my part this I belieue was true that in effect he ruled there in that Senate as peremptorily as euer the Byshop of that cittie did before him by vertue of his ecclesiasticall authoritie And I am led to iudge so by his owne wordes For in the time of his banishment when he was vrged by sundry ministers to admit of equall conditions and to returne to Geneua for the good of that Church hee aunswered them partly thus Ad tantam multitudinem regendam qui sufficerem how should I be able to rule such a multitude Againe desuetudine oblitus sum artis regendi multitudinem through want of practise I haue forgotten the art of ruling a multitude And to Viretus speaking of his going to Geneua Cerno quam arduum sit munus ecclesiasticum regere I perceiue howe hard a matter it is to mauage an ecclesiasticall function Againe I am nescio quid factum sit vt animo incipiam esse inclinatiore ad capessenda eius gubernacula I know not how it now commeth to passe that I am of a more inclininge minde to take the gouernment of that Church vpon me What doe all these speaches meane I pray you but that notwithstanding his pretence of assistantes yet hee meant so to lay his plot as that they should all be constrayned all the sort of them to daunce after his pipe But howsoeuer these thinges may be interpreted this is most apparant that as I sayd such were the Consistorian proceedinges as that both he and his Consistory did grow into
stand in their own c̄oceit that they feare not to speak euill of th̄e that are in dignitie authoritye likewise of those things that they know not that they vse swelling words of vanitie that they beguile vnstable soules that they seperate them selues from other and that they haue not the spirit It will not surely serue their turnes one day to saye that in such their wilfull opposing of themselues as it were against heauen in such their outragious rayling and bitternesse against so holy a calling they followed certaine of their bretheren the ministers in Scotland or in the lowe countries or in Geneua For in this vaine they haue exceeded them all especially them of the two countries last mentioned Maister Caluin although after his restitution to Geneua he might be thought to haue had some harder opinion of Bishopps then he had before yet if you compare him with these fellowes you would thinke him an especiall fauourer and defender of them He could well enough indure it◠to vse these honorable tearmes to Archbishop Cranmer Illustrissime domine clarissime presul et mihi ex animo reuerende commendinge his authoritie his wisdome and his integritie desiringe him to put them all in practise for the benefit of the Church And in his letter to the King of Polonia he sheweth himselfe to be far from Cartwrights minde vz. that the Popes authoritie is more necessary ouer all Churches then the authoritie of an Archbishopp ouer a prouince and that neither of them can discharge so great an office For there writinge against the pope he propoundeth to the Kinges consideration the auncient forme of church-gouernment by Archbishops tearminge it a moderate honor meaninge therby as I take it the preheminence and authoritie which Archbishops then had as beinge limited for the execution of it within the compasse of mans power wheras the Popes pretended authoritie beinge of so large an extent as comprehending the whole world could not possibly be executed by any man liuinge But yet I am short of M. Caluins moderatiō in this matter for discoursing of the state of the auncient churches before the time of popery of Bishops Archbishops and patriarches their authority and superiority in their circuites dioces and prouinces he vseth these modest speeches Although the Bishops of those times did set foorth many canons wherin they might be thought to expresse more then is expressed in the scriptures yet they framed their whole gouernement according to the onely rule of gods word with that caution vt facilè videas nihil fere hac parte habuisse a verbo Dei alienum that you may easily see there was nothing almost in this behalfe disagreeing from the word of God If there may be found any imperfection in the orders which they made yet they indeuoured with a sincere studie to keepe the institution of God from the which nō multum aberrarunt they swarued not much And a little after the elders that were ministers of the worde did choose one from amongst them-selues in euery Cittie vnto whom especially they gaue the title of Bishop Ne ex aequalitate vt fieri solet dissidia nascerentur least by aequalitie as it vsually happeneth dissentions should arise As touching the beginning of this order he agreeth with S. Ierome that it hath continued in the Church since S. Markes time And saith he that euery prouince had her Archbishop that also in the Nicene Councel Patriarches were appointed who were in order and degree aboue Archbishops Id ad disciplinae conseruationem pertinebat It did pertaine to the preseruation of discipline But his conclusion is yet more full and differeth but a little if it differ at all from that which the learneder sort in England doe now maintaine with all antiquitie For speaking of the forme of gouernment so framed as is said in the councel of Nice he vseth these wordes Si rem intuemur reperiemus veteres Episcopos non aliam regendae ecclesiae formam voluisse fingere ab ea quam Deus verbo suo praescripsit if we looke to the forme of gouernment it selfe we shall finds that the auncient Bishoppes would not deuise another forme of churchregiment differing from that which God hath prescribed in his word And thus you may perceaue what great difference there is betwixt our mens spirites and Maister Caluins their outrage and his modestie their pride and his humilitie their rashnes ignorance and giddines and his sobrietie learning and iudgment The forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment agreed vpon in the councell of Nice differeth not from that which God hath prescribed and who then but men that haue shamelesse foreheads dare so incounter it But it may peraduenture be sayd that howsoeuer Caluin did carrie himselfe in this cause yet Beza is of an other opinion Indeed he is so but it turneth more more dayly to his own discredit He succeeded Maister Caluin in place but neither in his learning nor in all his vertues And I do attribute it vnto his want of iudgment that he hath shewed himselfe such a busie body where he had nothing to doe It is chiefly he that hath set the pretended reformers in this whole land so much a gogge against Bishops by his secret letters and other disordered writinges of incouragement vnto them And yet forsooth he can write to other men and pretend the quite contrarie Consider the processe following and then if I be too blame thus to write of him tell me of it In one of his epistles dated 1570. he affirmeth that Archbishops Primates are a shadowe and image of the policy of Roome that they are petty tyrantes in respect of the Pope and that although the names be neuer soe auntient yet it ought to haue beene enquired whether it were lawful to bring them into the church c. It had beene a maruailous beneficiall matter to all posteritie that Beza had beene the commaunder at Geneua in the times of the Primitiue church that so the learend graue fathers of those ages might haue inquired this point of him knowen his pleasure In the yeare 1572. it seemed good vnto him as it hath beene said before to write his letter into this Iland to Knox the reformer in Scotland at what time the Bishops there had receaued the Gospell at the least many of them as I thinke though it woulde not serue their turne to keepe them in their places In which letter amongst many other good consistorian documents hee writeth thus But I would haue you and the other brethren to remember that which is before your eies as Bishops brought foorth the Papacy so false or counter set Bishops the reliques of Popery will bring in Epicurisme They that desire the churches good let them take heede of this pestilence And seeing you haue put that plague in Scotland to flight quaeso c. I hartily pray you that you neuer suffer it againe vnder any pretence or color of keepinge
it containeth in it not the iudgement onlie of any particular man but is the full resolution of Cartwright and all his crue here in England contained in a certaine booke of Discipline whereunto the chiefest of theÌ„ haue subscribed The presbyterye saith that booke is an assembly or senate of elders By the name of elders are ment ministers of the word and those that are properly called Elders They meane such as in their place I haue spoken of Here then you haue that Deacons are of the presbyterie and that they are not of the presbyterie Chuse which side you will belieue I thinke they are bewitched If I might aduise you beleiue them both alike But some will peraduenture saie that it maketh no great matter whether side hath the truth that the point betwixte them is of no importance and that I am too blame to make so much of nothing Whereunto I answere that if there bee anie who shall so conceaue he is not well acquainted with the depth of this matter For indeed it worketh a meruailous alteration in the Deacons office Admitte them to haue their places and voices in the Consistories and then their authoritie is growen to bee verie great Then they haue equall right with their pastors and Doctors to ordaine ministers by imposition of their handes Then the forgiuing and retaining of sinnes doth appertaine vnto theÌ„ Then they are become the Apostles successors and doe carry the keyes of the kingdome of heauen aswell as any of the rest For in Consistorio standum maioris partis sententiae In the Consistorye men must stande to the sentence of the greater part One mans voice there is as good as an others And so in all other matters that do belonge to the Consistorie and which are to be executed there iointly by them all together the Deacons beare swaie haue a stroake with the best of them Wheras on the otherside if they be excluded out of the Consistorie as Beza our men would haue theÌ„ then they haue nothing at all to doe with any of these matters but are restrained draweÌ„ into a more narrow coÌ„passe must content theÌ„selues to be either proctors of hospitals or else collectors distributers of the peoples deuotioÌ„ to the poore And therein also they are subiect to great controlment For as the lawes certaine grounds of Geneua affirme therfore also coÌ„monly so held elsewhere DiaconoruÌ„ administratio pastorum inspectioni est obnoxia the deacons administration is vnder the ouersight of the pastors It is true thâ—t Beza is pleased to allow the deacons a little more scope theÌ„ hitherto I haue mentioned And that is that in the celebratioÌ„ of the Lordes supper they may by their office carrie the cup to the communicants M. Cartwright goeth a little further and telleth vs also that they maie likewise distribute the bread In all reformed Churches almost saith he the Deacons do assist the minister in helping of him to distribute the cup in some places also the bread If none would be angrie with me I would gladlie aske this question vz. why the Deacons might not aswell helpe the minister to baptise and to distribute the worde as well as the Lordes supper But as I saide before of the Noblemen Elders so do I also of our worshipfull Deacons What a sight were it to see a Iustice of peace peraduenture in his veluet cloake his chaine of golde and such correspondent attire as is agreeable to that calling deliuering to the people that I maie speake of so holie a sacrament sacramentallie the most blessed bodie and blood of our Sauiour Christ And yet I allow the sight as reasonable as to see the proctor of a Spittlehouse executing of that charge Peraduenture it will here be said againe that if there be anie deformitie in the beholding of either of these sights it is not in them but in the beholders For they are ecclesiastical persons as soone as they are made Deacons And then why doth it not belong vnto them to deale in ecclesiasticall causes It is wel obiected That point indeed would not be omitted It is generallie agreed vpon amongst them I confes that their new found halfe-partie Deacons are ecclesiasticall persons For our Counter-poisoner saith That whosoeuer are called as you must vnderstande their Deacons are to beare office in the Church with due examination and triall and with the consent of those to whom it appertayneth and are with fasting and prayers or with prayers onely and with imposition of handes separated or put a part to that office they are al Ecclesiasticall persons and not lay men as they terme them Surely if our Noble men were once become Elders and our chiefest Gentlemen Deacons and so both the sorts of them Ecclesiasticall persons what a clergy should we haue in England Now there is no one calling in the whole common wealth that is growen to be more contemptible with many then the calling of Clergy men But that would soone be recouered when such men of estimation should bee in the account of Ecclesiasticall persons There was an old saying Soluat Ecclesiae let euery man pay to the Church Which now is altered and made aunswerable to the humor that now raigneth Soluat Ecclesia let the Church-men pay for it And indeede if we had suche Elders and Deacons to be of the number of vs that are Church-men and Ecclesiasticall persons we might surely pay wel for it At the least if their tenths subsidies should be in all respects rateable to ours And there were no reason that the Pastors and Doctors men so farre in degree aboue the Elders and Deacons should finde lesse fauour then their inferiours or be more deepely charged except their liuings were in true value according to their degrees But this would be the mischiefe of it that the Disciplinary platformres haue so far ouershot themselues already as certainely they haue marred all these their former speculations For they haue made the Deacons office but annual And I am perswaded that if our noble men worshipfull Gentlemen were but for one yeare to all respects become Ecclesiasticall persons they would hardly be drawen to continue in that calling the next yeare after It was neuer heard of in the Church of Christ for the space of a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that the deacons office should be annuall Imposition of handes by the Presbytery to an office for a yeare In what Apostle in what Euangelist in what History may we finde it A man shalbe an Ecclesiasticall person to day and to morrowe without any fault committed by him he shall become a lay man againe Maister Beza seeing the absurdity hereof doth indeuour to salue it as well as he can And wot yee howe Surely he saith in effect that few men will bee willing to â—arry long in that office and that therefore they are glad to haue them as they may and to frame their lawes accordingly But
sibi persuasit papa diaboli vicarius The pastors themselues shall not be Christ's vicars as he is priest vvhich office notvvithstanding the pope the diuels vicar tooke falsely vpon him The pastors he saith shall not be Christs vicars as he is a priest And thē ther is no remedie They shal not How shal they hold then immediatly of him as he is a prophet That is it They are his substitutes or vicars saith hee onely as he is a prophet Did any man euer say so before Surely not to my remembrance Maister Fenner in his diuinitie perused by maister Cartvvright and allowed of at Geneua can find but two kinds of offices appertaining to Christ vz. his priesthood and his kingly office and therfore he maketh prophesie a part of his priesthood It is much what also to the same purpose and directly contrary to I. B. that the diuinitie grounds printed at Geneua do affirme by the mouth of one Abraham Henric where they say Pastorū ministeriū vt olim sacerdotum c. The dutie of pastors as in times past of the priests consisteth in three things teaching administring of the sacraments publicke praier So as either I.B. must be content that ministers may be Christs vicars as he is a priest or else I see not how he will bestow them You will say peraduēture that they may be Christs vice-gerēts as he is a king but that as I sayd he will not indure If any might be Christs vicars sayth he as he is a king the Apostles Prophets Euangelists Ministers and Doctors might be his vicars At ne hi quidem quia rex est dicendi sunt vicarij But they neither are to be called Christs vicars as he is a king Well some place they must haue there is no remedie I dare say you would smile if it should so fall out that all our consistorian ministers will needs bee Christs substitutes in that he is a king Surely I must tell you it proueth so For as touching I. B. they reckon him I perceaue but a simple politian Christs kingdome it hath bene truly vrged is not of this world it is plea good enough against our bishops but it holdeth not to impaire the estimation of our petit consistorian kings A distinction will helpe thē at a pinch Christs kingdome is not of this world but it ought to be in this world Do you not here desire to know what this kingdome is That I may not keepe you long in suspence it is the Geneuian Eldership and euen the very same kingdome saith our counterpoizer vvhere of Christ spake many times after his resurrection by the space of sortie daies as the Iesuits themseluss are compelled to confesse See the seducer Who cōpelled the Iesuits to say so would not a man haue thought that this place had bene vrged by some protestants against the papists for the ouerthrow of some especiall points of poperie wher vpon after much paines the Iesuits bad bene driuen in spight of their heads to admit of the interpretatiō mētioned But it is clean contrary the Iesuits do abuse this place of purpose in the behalfe of the Antichristian Romish form of church regimēt so doth the Counterpoizer following the Iesuits therin for the setting forth of their Geneuian papacy or Regalitie I could adde here a number of strange sayings whereof you shall here anon in some other chapters following concerning this new presbiteriall kingdome But now it is more pertinent to make the point I haue in hand more apparant vnto you Christ as a king prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment saith Cartvvright not as a priest nor as a prophet but as a king With Cartvvright his scholler Dudlie Fenner doth agree in this point setteth downe the first part of his kingly administration to be about the building and continuance of the church by the officers appointed Eph. 4.11.12.13 Maister Beza also he runneth the same course how Christ being a king the head of the church doth administer his kingdome Per legitime vocatos pastores by pastors lavvfully called And Sonnius in like manner affirmeth that Christ doth execute his kingly office in the collectiō of the church by the ministerie of the word and sacraments and by the internall gouernment of his spirit and the external of the ministerie Here is indeed very roiall preferment for al the ministers of the word But I meruaile how the ruling elders do hold their authoritie They are neither priests nor prophets of likelihood then they must be little kings Wel then Christ is the king the presbiterie is his kingdome his immediat vice-gerents they are all of them What Surely by the due course of degrees which are acknowledged the pastors must be all of thē as it were emperors the doctors kings the elders dukes and the deacons lords of the treasurie c. And for the authoritie of euery such kingdom it must needs fal out to be very soueraign For if euery presbiterie as it is before noted be properly to be called the body of Christ and the true portraiture of the catholick church that euery one of thē is of equall authoritie now that the officers in them are Christs immediat vice-gerēts within their own kingdoms who shall controll any of their doings or whither should a man appeale if he found himselfe iniuried I remember maister Bezas saying That euery eldership is the tribunall seat of Christ. Which is all one almost with the assertion of some Romish parasits that the pope and Christ haue but one consistorie They tell vs of appellations from an eldership to a classis from a classis to a prouinciall synod from a prouincial synod to a nationall from a nationall vnto a generall councell But as the papists do make euery appellation from the pope to be as absurd and all one as if the appeale were made from Christ so must it necessarily follow to be as vntollerable to appeale from any consistorie it being as it hath bene affirmed the tribunall seat of Christ and the officers in it Christs immediat gouernors And because it is pretended that the regiment they speake of is in the best perfection at Geneua I would gladly know whither a man might appeale vpon occasion from that eldership there The churches of Bern or Zuricke haue no more to do with the church of Geneua they will say then Geneua hath to do with them or an eldership in Scotland with another of the low countries But I haue taried too long vpon this matter in collecting vpon their contrarie assertions Therefore to conclude I would wish all christian and godly magistrats that haue as yet in their hands the lawfull authoritie in church-church-causes which belongeth vnto them by the word of God to keepe it stil vntill at the least these disciplinarie deuisers be fully resolued whether we must account thē priest prophets or kings priests if they be Christs substitutes as he is a
hee shall thereby incurre the high displeasure of these Rabbies which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne yet I say againe vvhat is left to the magistrat The iniurie is confessed afore There shall need no triall of the fact where so many witnesses may be vsed to prooue his confession afore if now he should denie it All that the magistrat hath to do is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie and to tax my charges If you say nay hee will heare the cause againe Indeed I confesse he had need to do so But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and troubled Besides that course would turne to the vtter discredit of the presbyteries that their dealings fitting in the seat of Christ should come to be scanned by those that are but humane ordinations For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet that vpon certificat from them the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense and to rate mine expenses without any further adoo Some such thing it is though not in this very case which the ministers of the low countries haue desired Thus a very graue man borne amongst them reporteth of this matter Ministri nullam habent coërcendi potestatem nec habere volunt Tantùm cupiunt vt magistratus puniant eos qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent Quod nunquam sunt facturi nisi prius de tota causa legitime recognouerint actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris consistorij Quod seniores ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant In haec absurd a inciderunt propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē c. The ministers there haue no povver to correct any man neither vvill they haue any Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such as should refuse to obey their cōmandements vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv the ministers of the consistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge not to be agreeable to their ministerie And they are fallen into these absurdities he had also before named some other through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops You see their desire in this case and it may in mine opinion bee stretched to the former And then as I haue shewed through scandales offences consciences and I know not what pretences challenges and counterfait prerogatiues the iurisdiction of their elderships will be so large as the ciuile magistrats iudges and lawyers shall not need to be greatly troubled These things with all the premisses of this chapter considered I dare say you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many and so infinite causes And to satisfie your longing the learned discourser shall first speake his mind Our sauiour Christ sayth he in the vvord church alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters amongst them the like vvhereof he vvilled to be established in his church for administration of gouernment What you will say but weightie matters How come they now to al matters euen to Robin-hood maigames and may poles Ye say truly but Cartvvright will supply this defect For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves and of the sinagogue saith he from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church And M. Beza Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege cur non valeat in ecclesia sub euangelio authore Christo Math. 18.17 non video I see not why the same authoritie that the Synagogue had vnder the lawe shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter it is good reason it should bee so But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes let vs see what prettie tales they will tell vs of those times They say and it is true that the Priests were the Lawyers of the land And would they be so now If the same pollicie continue why should they not They tell vs further that in ciuill causes when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction If that also were a good pollicie and that it be continued by Christ then I see no reason why it should not againe be now established in all places They say that the 17. of Deuteronomie from the beginning of the eight verse vnto the ende of the thirteenth doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate where it is said that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud between plea and plea c. did belong to the priestes and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination If this pollicie be in like manner continued who then in the common-wealth but the ecclesiasticall Elderships Matters of bloud and of all pleas Who would not take those points to be more ciuil causes It is true But they tell vs that when the priests dealt in any of those causes they dealt not in them ciuilly but ecclesiastically It will trouble a man to find out their sleights But one example to this purpose you shall haue When such a doubt did rise saith Beza Non de facto Not of the facte for that was meere ciuill but Deiure what the law was in such a case then the Ecclesiasticall Eldership determined thereof and that doone the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall one for matters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes consisting of temporall Iudges and another for matters of Conscience for all sortes of offences and for matters of lawe consisting of ecclesiasticall persons some Pastors and Doctors assisted in solemn maner with their church Aldermen Suppose then I pray you that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall such a difficult matter in lawe as is pretended commeth before the Iudges of some fact whereupon downe they come from their seats and go to the Elders May it please your Maisterships there is such a cause before vs which seemeth to be a foule matter if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid what is the law in this point The Elders consult together resolue them The Iudges giue them a legge returne to their places the cause falleth out according to the complaint and so they pronounce the sentence as the Aldermen taught them Suppose I say all these things
themselues are excepted Whereof it commeth that the very same proiect is made to the Lordes of her Maiesties most honourable Councell which was deuised by Beza for Scotland vz. that in place of the Bishops there might be present in the parliament house some wise and graue Ministers of especiall gifts learning sorted out of all the land to yeld their Councell according to Gods heauenly lawe euen as the ciuill Iudges are readie to giue their aduise according to the temporall law and for matters of greater difficultie But would they sitte there as the Iudges doe and haue no voices I take it they would scorne that greatly For I nothing doubt but if they were there they would account themselues the wisest in the companie And therefore it was more substantially considered of by him who penned a Supplication to her Maiestie and wished That foure and twentie Doctors of Diuinitie to be called by such names as it should please hir highnes might be admitted into the Parliament house and haue their voyces there in steade of the Bishops And would they bee called Lords if it pleased her Maiestie for the honour of that house to appoynt it so Their wordes doe import so much and I make no doubt of it but that to gratifie her highnesse they would bee content to humble themselues so farre In the hope which they haue conceiued to ouerthrow the state of Bishoppes and to haue their deuise allowed of and established in the lande they inueigh most bitterly against the Bishoppes and the Conuocation house misliking that the dealing in ecclesiasticall causes should bee committed vnto them in sorte as now it is affirming that the liberties of the Parliament are thâ—reby betrayed and that it appertaineth to that Court to order matters of religion But what if the Bishops were excluded and none admitted into the Conuocation house but such as they woulde chuse from amongst themselues how then Indeed saith the Supplicator If the Conuocation house were such as it ought to bee c. then were it not lawfull for the Parliament to establish any thing in the matters appertaining to the pure worship of God but by theyr direction Which is this in effect if I vnderstand them that the Parliament should prouyde theyr new pretended gouernours of sufficient maintenance and set vp theyr Eldershippes and then enact it likewise that whatsoeuer they should ordaine in their assemblies and meetings for the time to come concerning Church causes should be in full strength and for euer obeyed vntill it might please them to make some alteration Which is the point that Knox aymed at in his Exhortation to England wherein for the good instruction of her Maiesties subiectes he sendeth them from Geneua these Allobrogicall rules That the pretended discipline ought to bee set vp that all Princes ought to submit themselues vnder the yoke of it that what Prince King or Emperour shall disanull the same he is to be reputed Gods enemie and to be helde vnworthie to raigne aboue his people and then sayth if such order were once established as there he prosecuteth and the discipline well executed accordingly theyr yearely comming to the Parliament for matters of religion shall bee superfluous and vayne And this also is playne by Cartwrights newe forme of discipline subscribed vnto by himselfe and his fellowes Which forme they haue auowed vppon theyr oathes to bee such as that they purposed to haue beene suitors to her Maiestie for the generall establishing of it In which their purpose if once they may preuayle there shall neuer Parliament bee troubled againe in matters of religion otherwise then as I sayde for making of lawes that the people may obey their orders For the whole gouernement is there ascribed vnto their Elderships other assemblies insomuch as the ciuill Magistrate is not once mentioned in it It is well knowne how vehement they haue been and still continue against the now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in that he is one of her Maiesties most honourable priuie Councell accounting it vnlawful for a Bishop or Minister of the worde to holde anie such roome and authoritie And yet notwithstanding it is greatly allowed of liked that Beza in Geneua should be one of the Councel of that state there one of the threescore and they admit not anie into theyr Consistory so much as the meanest of their Aldermen but hee must bee eyther a Syndicke or one of the Councell of threescore or one of the Councell of two hundreth Now I cannot possibly be brought to thinke that the worde of God should deale so partially but that it may bee as lawfull heere as there if it please her Maiestie to haue a Bishop to bee one of her most honourable Councell It is apparant in the former Chapiter what little account they make of generall Councels The best are censured by them and reprooued It is not well borne by Cartwright that the Councell of Nice should be tearmed a famous Councell And for other Councels or Synodes they are scarcely reckoned to bee worthie the mentioning If you presse one of that forte with the authoritie of them all though hee be not thirty yeares of age hee will not sticke to make a tush at them and tell you that himselfe is of another opinion No decrees made by them will bind these fellowes And as touching our owne nationall Synodes and Parliaments they are prosecuted with the greatest contempt The reformation of religion made by that authoritie is tearmed a deformation The articles of religion are misliked in diuers points The Iniunctions Aduertisements Canons Orders Ceremonies and all thinges in a manner are despised by them For they are but mens preceptes forsooth euery man must trie them and keepe or allowe what he list at the least if hee will but pretend that hee dooth it of conscience Howbeit if they may haue once authoritie to establish their Elderships and to meete together in theyr classicall prouinciall or nationall assemblies there to make such lawes and orders as they shall thinke good then see I praye you how they chaunge theyr song Touching my departure from that holy assembly without leaue c. Icraue pardon Holy assembly It was a Conuenticle in London about the yeare 1584. I am ready to runne if the Church commaund according to the holy decrees and orders of discipline Holy decrees and orders The matter was for his going into the Lowe Countries with the Earle of Leicester and for his absence from his benefice To the determination of a nationall Synode men shall stande as it was at Ierusalem except it bee in a great matter of fayth or a great matter expressely against the Scriptures It was agreede vppon in the Northampton classis that concerning any matters of doctrine or about the sense of any place of Scriptures the brethren within that compasse must stande to the determination of that clâ—ssis And these are the
orders to this poynte in the newly subscribed booke of discipline Plurium sententiae verbo Dei consentaneae singulares omnes eius cansilij conuentus ecclesiae parere debent All Churches must obey the sentence of the greater part of that Councellor assembly vnder whose direction they are the same being agreeable to the worde of God And agayne It is made a part of theyr Aldermens office to see Vt quae à conuentibus piè decreta retulerint à ciuibus suis earum ecclesiarum studiosè obseruentur that those godly decrees which they shall bring from the assemblyes bee diligently obserued of theyr Cittizens of those Churches Lastly Conuentus sententia rata habeatur donec à conuentu maior is authoritatis secus iudicatum puerit Let the sentence of euery assembly bee ratified vntill it shall be otherwise iudged-of by an assembly of greater authoritie As a classicall to bee ouerruled by a prouinciall a prouinciall by a nationall a nationall by a generall And thus they write of theyr owne orders and assemblyes Which rules take them altogether as they lye if they bee true as I doe not greatly dislike them being well applyed then do these busie bodies among vs sin most directly against theyr own consciences in that they oppose themselues as they do against those things which the greater part of the national Sinode high court of parliament of this Realme hath allowed of beeing most agreeable to the worde of God before some generall Councell or assembly of more authoritie haue iudged otherwise and determined for the course that they haue proceeded in Generall Councell I am sure they haue none And for any other assembly that hath beene held and should haue greater authoritie in England than the nationall Synode of all our owne Churches and the high Court of Parliament let them name it In their writinges generally they exclayme against the high Commission or at the least against the Commissioners as many of them as bee clergie men affirming it to bee against the worde of God that any such should bee of that Commission And yet in Scotland it was agreeable with the Scriptures that fortie or fiftie at the least Ministers of the worde as I conceyue it shoulde bee verie great Commissioners from the King Anno 1589. to very manie great purposes euen for the purging of that lande from all sortes of enemies to the religion there professed Likewise earnest suite is made in the Supplication before mentioned to her Maiestie and found in Fields study that the foresaid foure twentie Doctors that should bee of the Parliament house might be likewise generall Commissioners vnder the great scale of England or the more part of them to beare and determine all and euery secte errour heresie contempt default and misdemeanour agaynst the worde of God and her Maiesties lawes of reformation of religion to depriue any Pastour not dooing or neglecting his duetie to examine witnesses and to imprison the bodyes of all such malefactors and to certifie their names to the Lordes of her Maiesties Councell that they may receiue further condigne punishment Besides there bee some that resemble the high Commission nowe in force vnto the authoritie which they challenge to theyr seuerall Elderships Whereupon one of them acquainted I doubt not with the desires of the rest sayth That if the high Commission were setled in fiue hundred places more than it is and shoulde gouerne by the worde of God and lawes of this Realme there would rise more profit thereby to religion than yet hath beene found by the Bishops He would haue it in fiue hundreth places Scotland is diuided into two and fiftie Eldershippes and of likelyhood they would haue fiue hundred in England And that as I take it is the mystery of his number of fiue hundred To conclude I finde another motion which liketh wel that if there were fiue hundred Elderships more or fewer established yet there might be in euery great Towne certaine Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall appoynted to looke that the Elderships did their dueties if they did not to compel them therunto by ciuill authority So as therby it appeareth that although our Bishops other Clergie men may not be such Commissioners with vs in some few places yet their Pastors Doctors Aldermen may in euery parish or so many of them or I knowe not whom as it should please her Maiestie to assigne to euery greate Towne Surely the worde of God is much troubled with such kinde of choppers and chaungers of it euery giddy heade wresting and wringing it to serue his owne deuise Wee shoulde haue Commissions to thatch houses withall I see if they might be our directors They are offended with the authoritie that her Maiestie dooth giue vnto her Commissioners for causes ecclesiasticall as beeing vnlawfull in that by vertue of that commission they may sende sometimes for offendors to appeare before them by purseuants and commit them to prison as occasion shal fall out and theyr faultes misdemeanors and contempts shall require But at Geneua the like authoritie in effecte is lawfull in their Eldership For there the Consistorie hath a Beadle sergeant or purseuant or as you lift to tearme him appoynted by the ciuill Magistrates to attende vppon it whose office is to call such before the Consistorie as the Aldermen shall appoynt him And for imprisoning of any offendors and contemptuous persons there is notany matter almost for the which they may call a man before them but one parte of the punishment of it by the lawes of the Cittie is imprisonment As if any when hee appeareth in the Consistorie or els where be so hardie as but to speake euill of any of the Ministers or misname them he is to be imprisoned Besides as I haue noted it before theyr Elders are alwayes of the Councell of state and seldome or neuer but they will bee sure to haue one of the foure Syndickes to bee of that bench So as together they raigne lyke Lordes in theyr Consistorie and who dare say My Lordes why doe you so If they direct imprisonment is but a small matter I speake not agaynst that order there let them vse it as they thinke good Only I see not why the worde of God should bee so bountifull to them and is so sparing to vs. In that by the orders of our Church and the laws of the Realme there is required of Ministers a subscription to her Maiesties lawfull authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes to the Articles of Religion and to the Communion booke c. greate quarrels haue beene raysed and many exceptions are taken against it Insomuch as one a wise man I warraunt you dooth ascribe all the daungers that haue beene complotted against her Maiesties person by the traitrous Papistes the dearth of corne the cause that we haue had such watching and warding by souldiers and lastly that the Spanyards would haue inuaded this land
scriptures So Cyprian so Gregory c. did carry some weight in S. Augustines opinion Those things which diuerse notable men haue alledged out of the auncient Fathers for the iustification of the present ecclesiasticall gouernment in the church of England ought not so lightly to bee regarded with euery princox What the Fathers haue written that agreeth not with our Phantasticall giddye headed fellowes pleasures they write it not of parciality either to grieue them or to gratifie vs but as trueth led theÌ„ Quod inuenerunt in ecclesia teneruÌ„t quod didiceruÌ„t docueruÌ„t quod a patribus acceperunt hoc filiis tradideruÌ„t that which they found in the church saith Augustine they held that which they had learned they taught that which they had receaued of theyr fathers they deliuered to theyr children Though Cartwright his companie do carrie so base a conceit of those times wherein the auncient fathers liued yet the Fathers themselues did not so thinke of theÌ„ Iulianus the heriticke did speake as it seemeth insuch a scornfull sorte of theÌ„ as our Sectaries do But S. Augustine laieth it to his reproch as an apparant argument of his great folly presumptioÌ„ thinking it a most absurd point for him so to vse them Vsque adeò permiscuit imis summa longus dies c. hath time so confounded all things saith Augustine is darknes growen to bee such light and is light it selfe turned into such darknes vt videant Pelagius Celestinus Iulianus et caeci sunt Hilarius Cpyrianus Ambrosius that Pelagius Celestinâ—s and Iulianus can see and Hilary Cyprian and Ambrose are become blind And surely I do not perceaue why I may not without offence applie the same wordes to those men in these daies which treade in the saide fellowes steppes concerning this their contempt pride Were there neuer learned men before you were taught the principles of the Geneua discipline was wisdom dead till you were borne Doe you know what was in the Apostles times better then they did who succeeded the Apostles were the auncient Fathers able to defende the greatest misteries of our saluation against so many pestilent heretiques and were they ignorant in the matters of the externall gouernment of the church Knew they the distinction of the three persons in the blessed Trinitie could they not find what difference Christ allowed off to be continued in his Church betwixt a Bishop and a priest Is the darknes which pride carieth with it groweÌ„ to be so light and is the light that shewed it selfe so many waies in the ancient fathers as in their singular learning great humilitie become such darknes that Cartwright Trauerse Fenner and such like but the shadows of learned men in respect should be thought so clearly sighted shall Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Hierome Chrysostome Augustine Gregory Hilarye and all the rest of those worthie men be reckoned blind Surely he is a bussard that thinketh so And therefore I will coÌ„clude this chapter with another saying of S. Augustines against such busie innouators as you are oportet vt populi christiani vestris prophanis nouitatibus anteponant c. It is meet that all christian people should preferre the auncient fathers before your nouelties eisque potius adherere quà m vobis rather sticke fast to their iudgements then to runne after your phansies CHAP. XXVIII Theyr dealing with all the new writers and many reformed churches when they make against them THis is a grounde layde downe by Cartwright that few men that are of any stayde or sounder iudgement in the scriptures and haue seene or read of the gouernment and order of other churches are against them in such matters as they haue broched vnto vs. And agreablie to this ground his answeres are framed when any thing is vrged against him out of anie of the new writers except Caluin and BeZa If either of them do happen to crosse him it is strange to see how he doubleth shifteth As for any other they are but a puffe with him hee careth not greatly howe hee handleth them Pellicane Bucer Bullinger Illyricus and Musculus affirming with all the auncient Fathers that Timothye was Bishop of Ephesus what then sayth Cartwright If they were for one a hundred they could not beare downe the Apostle As though they hadde euer ment it Luther expoundinge a place of Zacharie contrarie to his liking his exposition sayth Cartwright is out of season Musculus affirmeth that the places 20. of Sainct Mathew 10. of sainct Marke and 22. of sainct Luke vos autem non sic doe not condemne Superioritie but an ambitious desire and tyrannicall vsage of it but Caluin as learned as hee sayth Cartwright is of my iudgement Bucer holdeth that the sayde 20. of Mathew doth propound a generall rule to all magistrats and christians Where Cartwrights extenuating the authoritie of man braueth out Bucer with this that his iudgment hath counterpoise of other as learned Whereas Peter Martyr Bullinger and Gualter do bring diuerse reasons for the lawfull vse of the surplise and such other apparrell as is appointed with vs for Ministers Cartwright is so farre from being moued with their authoritie as that he aduentureth to confute their said reasons after his manner very sophistically affirming in effect but falsely that either they vnderstoode not auncient fathers alleadged by them for that purpose or that they peruerted their meaning Bishop Ridly and Maister Bucer approouing that where there are no preachers there should bee godly learned homilies read in those Churches Cartwright thus dismisseth Bishop Ridley being a partie in this cause hee ought to be no witnesse And for Maister Bucers wordes he saith they are not to be weighed insinuating that his booke concerning his iudgement in king Edwardes daies vppon the communion booke is counterfeited Againe of maister Bucer for his allowing of priuate baptisme and of the signe of the Crosse likewise of the ring in marriage and that the parties married should receiue the communion he saith Bucer hath other grosse absurdities to this authoritie I could oppose other men of as great authoritie sometimes Homer sleepeth his reasons are verie ridiculous verie slender and colde and sauour not of the learning and sharpnesse of the iudgement of maister Bucer Maister Fox in like sorte setting downe his full approbation of the present state ecclesiasticall that Archbishops should be in degree aboue Bishops and Bishops in degree aboue other Ministers and relying for this his iudgement partly vpon the scriptures and partly vppon the primatiue Church and concluding that this is to keepe an order duely and truely in the Church according to the true nature and definition of order by the authoritie of Augustine he is I say thus censured Maister Fox writing a storie doth take greater paine and looketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whome then howe iustly or vniustly how
the church of Christ. The second question before mentioned being as concerning priests or elders was as it followeth VVhether can it be shevved out of any ancient father out of any councell either generall or prouincial or out of any ecclesiastical historie for the space of 1500 od yeares euen frō the Apostles times till of late that in the sayd ordinarie distribution since that time euer vsed of church-officers into episcopos Presbiteros Diaconos Bishops priests and deacons whether I say can it be shevved that the vvord presbyter priest or elder vvas at any time taken and vsed for certain meere lay men as craftsmen husbandmen citizens gentlemen or noblemen such as should be chosen for a yeare or tvvo to be assistants vnto the ministers of the vvord for the better gouernment of the church as to haue authoritie vvith others to ordaine and impose their hands vpon a minister of the vvord and sacraments to bind and lose sinnes c. vsing in the meane time their seuerall vocations as they did before and ceasing after the said one or tvvo yeres vvithout any offence cōmitted by thē to be any longer presbyteri Or vvas it not euer vvithin the time limited taken vsed only in the said distribution for the ministers of the vvord and sacraments Vnto this questiō one hath made this answer The vvord Presbiteri vvas neuer othervvise takē since the Apostles times in that distribution but for the ministers of the vvord and sacramēts as it is most euidēt to any that shal peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or vvill take any paines to read the vvritings of the ancient fathers But of this point before it be long you shall heare more by one who as he hath done euery thing he dealeth with so hath hee handled this very notably Now in the meane while according to the order which hitherto I haue kept it shall be sufficient for me that the three sayd doctors men well accounted of with maister Cartvvright and his adherents and such as will not bee thought to speake any thing partially may deliuer their opinions as touching this matter For to my vnderstanding they are as direct in this point what the word Presbyteri should signifie in the ancient fathers as they were before in the other of Bishops If in the sayd ancient Fathers the name of Bishop be appropriated to one that had a greater dignitie than was common to all ministers and that by the name of Bishops they neuer vnderstood the pastors of euery parish as doctor Robinson sayth If in the primitiue church and in the Fathers language they were called Bishops that were the cheefe and presidents ouer the rest of the priests or elders euen such as our Sauiour himselfe by the holy Euangelist S. Iohn doth call angels as doctor Reynolds affirmeth If by ancient vse of speech he was onely called a Bishop which in the scriptures is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If the elders that were subiect to these gouernours were of one order and authoritie with them in preaching the word and administration of the sacraments as doctor Fulke hath written against the Iesuits doth it not follow most necessarily that all the Clergie being deduced into three degrees vz. of Bishops priests or elders and deacons that by priests the ancient fathers must needs vnderstand the rest of the ministers of the word and sacraments that were no bishops except any will be so impudent as to say that they were none of the clergie He that will doubt hereof let him doubt for me whether the sunne be vp at noone Besides doctor Raynolds sheweth that Ciprians elders did administer the sacraments And for doctor Fulke after he had once incountred with the papists and amongst many other points was come to this whereof I speake concerning the name of priests as it is a distinct degree vnder bishops though before and peraduenture then also hee had a great fancie to the consistoriall Aldermen yet then that hee was driuen to deale directly and truly consider how he was inforced to alter his disciplinarie stile Those priests or ministers that are made among vs are the same elders that the scriptures in Greeke calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the bishops letters of orders they call them by the name presbiteri vvhich tearme though in English you sound it priests elders ancient seniors or ministers it is the same office which is described by the holy ghost Tit. 1. and in other places of scripture Againe VVe refuse not the name priest as it commeth of presbiter c. it is odious to some that knovv not the true Etimologie thereof Againe The name priest as it is deriued of the Greeke vve do not refuse it Again It appeareth by many places of VVicklifs vvorks and namely in his homilie vpon Phil. 1 that hee acknovvledgeth the destinction of bishops and priests for order and gouernment although for doctrine and administration of sacraments they are all one Againe In the fathers Episcopus and Presbiter Bishop and Priest are tvvo distinct degrees And againe In the fathers the vvord Presbiter is one degree only that is subiect to the Bishop Whereas therefore maister Cartvvright with his followers do pretend that they propound nothing which the writers both old and new for the most part do not affirme and the examples of the primitiue churches confirme As that where the ancient fathers and ecclesiasticall histories make mention of bishops and priests they vnderstand by bishops his parish parsons and by priests his counterfeit Aldermen beleeue both him all that glaine after him therein as they deserue and as by the premisses you shall iudge there is cause CAP. XXXI Hovv and vvith vvhat disagreement they vvrest and misconster the scriptures in the behalfe of their pretended discipline ABout the yeare 420 there fell a great contention betwixt the bishops of Affrike and Zosimus the bishop of Rome The point in question was this whether it was lawfull for them of Affrike to appeale from the proceedings of their owne bishops to the bishop of Rome Vpon which occasion partly there was a councel held in Affrike tearmed the sixt councell of Carthage wherein S. Augustine was present The bishop of Rome hearing of this councell and that it was assembled especially about that matter sent thither his factors Faustinus bishop of Potentia with other two priests of Rome Philippus and Asellus In this councell when the sayd question began to be debated the bishop of Romes factors being for their wit and learning three of the especiallest men that Zosimus could find out for such a purpose did deale most expresly against the bishop of Affrike for the prerogatiue and iurisdiction of the see of Rome In all the which contention notwithstanding the sayd factors were such excellēt men vsed the strēgth of al the wit and learning that was in them yet they could not find any one argument in all the
no longer this wonderfull thing that Trauerse speaketh off is this vz. that as it seemeth some of the said Churches so highly by him commended haue by vertue of their discipline excommunicated alreadie some great princes or Kinges If he had not himselfe published this matter in print and propounded the same as a president for the honour of his discipline I would not haue presumed yee maie be sure to haue touched it Neyther yet will I further meddle with it then onely to set downe his wordes After a long discourse how where there discipline is on foote there is nothing in effect amisse no priuate administration of the sacraments no baptizing or reading of seruice by Deacons no commutation of pennaunce no respect of persons he saith thus Memorable is that rare but right christian example of Theodosius the Emperor publicklye humbling himselfe vnder the hande of God and professing his repentance for his bloodye commaundement and the cruell execution done accordinge to it A president well worthy so christian a prince the honour of the Discipline yea and of the whole church of that age Such Theodosians haue the reformed churches of this age to speake off to the high honor of almighty God and his onlye begotten sonne Christ Iesus king of kinges Wherein a Prince of bloode royall and by birth within a step or two to one of the greatest Kingdomes of these partes of the worlde and for princely giftes worthy to haue borne a Scepter in his hande and a Diademe vpon his heade when as another Dauid hee hadde been ouerthrowen by Sathan and committed things for which the name of God was euill spoken off endured to heare the seruant of God as Dauid did Nathan to rebuke him lamenting his offence openly before the publicke assembly of the Church desired pardon of God and reioyced heauen and earth men and Angels with his conuersion from sinne to the obedience of the liuing God blessed for euer Amen Whose christian president both a crowned King and also a worthie sonne of that noble Father haue followed after that by terror of as barbarous crueltie as hath beene commited in any age they had done otherwise then Daniell and the yonge princes brought vp with him did in a case not vnlike to theyrs c. Hitherto Trauers And what this importeth iudge you I will aunswere no questions who these Theodosians are As princes like it let them allow it And thus of the commendation of this gouernment which if it were true indeed and that it had by any lawfull title so Regall an authority as here you see is pretended who would not almost fall downe and worshippe it But you must belieue them with discretion Men that thinke they know this platforme as well as the best of those that haue extolled it do carrie a farre differing opinion of it And therefore they haue been bold to write of it as followeth It is a sillye Presbytery or Eldership A sequestred withdrawen Presbyterye A sweeping new reformation A presumptuous irregular Consistory which hath no grounde in the worde of God A second beast Let them consider how far the â—auinge of such a Consistorie and Pastor in one Congregation differeth from that Apostolicall sea of Rome and that holy father that sitteth therein Of this Consistorie through the whole testament they can shew no warraunt They make themselues transgressors of the worshippe of God disturbers violaters of that holy order which Christ hath established in his Church These deceitfull workemen not onelye builde theyr owne timber and stubble deuises but most highly prophane that heauenly frame and gratious gouernement of Christ. In their leauened and corrupt writings of discipline and theyr supplications vnto the Parliament are declared theyr pernitious forgeries and sacrilegious prophanation of Gods holy ordinance They fetch their reformation from the primatiue defection That counterfeyt reformation which these counterfeit preachers pretende is as euill as that which is alreadie Both these factions pontificall and reformists woulde assume the whole gouernment of the Church into theyr owne handes How can o these forgers these coyners of religion seeme sue to cast out the heape of humane traditions as contrary and such as cannot bee ioyned vnto or with the testament of Christ and yet bring in these forgeries of theyr owne Is it likely or possible that our Sauiour Christ woulde fetch his patterne for the Elders of his Church and the executing of these high iudgements from that corrupt degenerate Synedrion of the Iewes which by the institutioÌ„ of God was merely ciuile and not ordayned for causes ecclesiasticall as appeareth Exod. 18. Num. 11. Deut. 1 The priestes bearing the charge and hauing the deciding of all ecclesiasticall causes Num. 18. Deut. 17. But this Councell of theyrs was now mixed of the Elders of the people and the Priestes and handled all causes both ciuile and Ecclesiasticall indifferently Mat. 26.3 Act. 4.5 If by the light of Gods word you examine and measure the secret Classis the ordinary sette Synods and Councels of ministers as they tearme themselues which these reformists now priuilie bring in and would openly set vp they shall no doubt be found as new strange antichristiaÌ„ as preiudicial to the libertie of the Saincts and to the power right and duties of the whole Church and as contrary to the gospell of our Lord Iesus Christ as the gouernement by Bishops c. what shew so euer of former antiquitie or of present necessitie they may pretend It is a new r adulterate forged gouernement in shew or rather in dispight of Christs blessed gouernment which they in pride rashnes ignoraunce and sensualytye of theyr fleshly hartes most miserablye innouate corrupt and peruert Theyr most exquisite plots of gouernment which they can deuise vnto theÌ„selues are but the instruments of foolish shepeheards to theyr owne perdition and of as many as are gouerned by them There is great difference we may perceiue hereby betweene the opinions of these two sorts of men concerning this presbyteriall forme of the new pretended discipline If any that are possessed with the former mens conceites shall lightly esteeme what this second sort of fellowes doe hold or thinke of their platforme he is to be put in mind that they are not so lightly to be regarded Diuerse ministers well reckoned of heretofore for their learning are lately fallen from Cartwright and his secte into another more new frenzy of Barrowisme In a letter that was taken not long since I find some points to this effect The preachers of Midleborow and Flushing haue both giuen ouer their vnlawfull callings M. Iohnson hath written a most learned discourse concerning the striking of a newe couenaunt with some conferences had in that country It is also reported and I am perswaded by that which I haue seene that the report is true vz. that maister Penry is entered in like manner into this
her particular officers both men and women after her owne humor to doe nothing else but carrie her purse and wash her feete A Discipline that by reason of her traine would be very chargeable A Discipline that hopeth to turne all the Church liuinges which either are or haue beene belike into Nunries and so to become herselfe the Prioresse of them all A Discipline that will needes be a new Pope Ioane and haue to deale in all ecclesiasticall causes either by hooke or crooke nay almost in all sortes of matters whatsoeuer A Discipline of such partiality as what she condemneth in others she approueth in herselfe A Discipline that disdaineth the auncient fathers and generall councells A Discipline that dareth to disgrace any of the new writers if they take not her part A Discipline that seemeth to allowe of nothinge but scriptures yet dependeth alltogether vpon her owne friends and Synods A Discipline that sometime to dazle mens eies withall can be content to pretend that the auncient fathers and councells doe plead for her estate but shee doth peruerte them A Discipline that to serue her turne doth wringe and wrest the scriptures this way and that way as she is disposed A Discipline that possesseth men with so greate selfe-loue and pride as for wante of good neighbours they are faine to take paines to commende themselues A Discipline that is contented to bee magnified and exalted against all that is called god vpon earth A Discipline that is vtterly forsaken by many that haue beene her friendes A Discipline accounted by those that do stil remaine her best friends not to be so necessarie as heretofore she hath beene reputed A Discipline that promiseth mountaines and bringes forth Myce. A Discipline that is greatly disliked for her pride her making of debate where she comes her taking vpon her like an Empresse to commaund and rule at her pleasure In these respects and many other which I could alleadge she is I say a discipline that is greatly disliked of sundry of her neighbours and euen of them who when she was at the last gaspe did reuiue her little suspectinge that euer shee would haue proued so ambitious a creature as since by experience they haue found her to be And therefore for mine owne part seeing I finde no country as yet that is so greatly to be enuied for any especiall happines that this pretended Cherubin hath brought forth or procured where shee is receiued I will continue my former praier that the Church of England be neuer troubled with such a discipline but that our olde and present Apostolicall forme of Church-gouernment vnder her excellent Maiestie by Arch-bishops or Arch-builders and Bishops practised in the Apostles times approued by all the auncient fathers and generall councells and continued in this land since the time that it first professed christianitie may together with her Highnesse our most Soueraigne Lady be long many happy yeares mainetayned blessed and preserued amongst vs. The which allmightie God graunt for his Sonne Iesus Christs sake our Lord. Amen Errata Pag. 17. lin 15. for Elders read orders Pag. 21. lin 31. for he told him read he told them Pag. 43. lin 22. for her full read theyr full Pag. 58. lin 8. for comming read conning Pag. 71. lin 6. 7. for out Bathes read out of the Bathes Pag. 73. lin 25. for scroules read scrappes Pag. 75. lin 14. for reparation read reputation Pag. 75. lin 29. for carries read carrieers Pag. 92. lin 11. for nominaum read nominauit Pag. ead lin 20. for protrahere read pertrahere Pag. 96. lin 11. for reasonable read vsuall Pag. 117. lin 24. for capitali read capituli Pag. 122. lin 18. for nisters read ministers Pag. 141. lin for or read eyther Pag. 143. lin 3. for not read most Pag. 145. lin 7. for all read almost all Pag. 146. lin 13. for then read they pag. 148. lin 5. for Vezelius read Pezelius pag. 149. lin 6. for his read these pag. 155. lin 29. there wants to pag. 171. lin 3. for laicis read laicos pag. 195. lin 2. for cares read eares pag. 216. lin 28. for adherent read adherents pag. 221. lin 8. for doth read doteth pag. 225. lin 22. for tendeth read tend pag. 228. lin 14. accommotated read accommodated pag. 231. lin 9. for to read of Ibi. lin 22. for preacher preachers pag. 231. lin 31. for precisely read pretily pag. 234. lin 30. for hath read haue pag. 238. lin 1. the which course read the course which pag. 291. lin 28. for more read meere Pag. 340. lin 26. for all proude read all that proude pag. 342. lin 27. auncienty for antiquitie pag. 346. lin 24. amst for amongst pag. 350. lin 9. for to Aerius read of Aerius pag. 353. lin 28. for as you are read as they are pag. 355. lin 10. not auncient for not the auncient pag. 374. lin 21. the word can is omitted pag. 375. lin 24. for know read knew pag. 377. lin 23. simple read simple men pag. 392. lin 16. read former chapter pag. 393. lin 3. for Adrius read Aerius pag. 397. lin 3. for Bishop read Bishops pag. 399. lin 19. read thus aswell with very manie of their maisters as with their schollers pag. 405. lin 28. for he should read he should not pag. 486. lin 21. for this read his FINIS Psal. 58. Esay 62 1. Caluin vpon Esay Euang Regni H.N. 1 Exhortation pag. 33 43. Euang Regni The Barroâ—â—ists Petition directed to her Maiestie Esra 4. Psal. 12. Psal. 138. Numb 16. Treatise of obedience Ibid. pa. 114. Ibid. Iohn Wall oâ— Ball in the time of Iacke Cades rebellion in Rich. 2. daies Chroni par vlt. Munster Simlerus de repub Helu Munster Bodinus de repub pa. 353 Caluin to Sadolet pag. 172 Ibid. Bodinus de repub pa. 353 Bodi meth pag. 243. De. repubHelu Munster Cos. Sleidan lib. 10 Simlerus de rep Heluit D. L. Cap. 25. Aphoris 21. De auth mag in subd c. vindic cont Tirannos Hottom Francog c. Beza in vita Calu. Calu. de neces ref eccl pa. 64. Calu to Sad Beza in vit Calu Ibid. Beza in vit Calu. Capit. to Farell epl Cal. 6 Beza invit Cal. Capit to Farell epl Cal. 6. Beza in vit Cal Capit. to Farell epl Cal. 6. Cal. epI. 40 Beza in vit Cal. Cal. epl 10. Calu. epist. 17 Beza in Vit. Calu. Calu. to Viret Epist. 25. Calu. to Farel Epist. 50. Calu. epist. 54. Beza in Vit. Calu. Cal. to Viret Epist. 76. Calu. Epist. 71 Ibidem Cal to Viret cp 77. Cal to Farell ep 23. Cal. to Viret ep 25. Cal. ep 79. Cal. to Viret ep 73. Cal. to Viret ep 3. Cal. to Viret ep 73. Cal. to Viret ep 82. Cal. ep 165. Beza de vit Caluin Calu. to the minist of Tig. ep 165. Calu. to Bul. epist. 164. Calu. to the minist of Zurick epist. 165 Ibid. Ibidem Bullinger to Cal. epist. 166 Bul. to Calu. epist. 166. Bul.
oppression as the Israelites were in it is altogether vnlike that they should haue the benefites of Magistrates of their owne Indeede now he hath won his spurs In effect all that he saith is but thus much It is likely that the Elders he buildeth vppon were such officers as hee dreameth of It is likely It is probable Well I trust the vizards of such maskers will be so throughly weatherbeaten in short time as that the simplest will be able to discerne their deformities For in this cause assuredly they pretending onely probabilities all probabilities indeede are flatly against them Is it probable if Christ had appointed any such gouernment as they speake of to haue continued to the end of the world or if the Apostles themselues had ordayned or practised it in their times that all the auncient Martyrs Councels and godly Fathers would with one consent haue abolished it It is probable Moyses being so carefull as it is to another purpose by thē alledged that he would not omit to signifie vnto his people euen the smallest matters that God gaue him in charge till he came to their basons besomes and pinnes about the Tabernacle that he woulde haue made no mention of such a waighty point as this is pretended to be if the Lord had euer giuen him commaundement for the institution of it Is it likely Moyses so ofte speaking of the institution of the publicke courts for Iustice and correction of manners amongst the Iewes which he knew were but to continue vntil the cōming of Christ that he would haue beene silent as touching the institution of this spirituall gouernement which should haue lasted till the day of iudgement if he had receaued any such Commission To draw therefore to an end of this point The institution of this pretended gouernment cannot be shewed out of the old Testament and then by theyr owne confessions in effect it may not be vrged out of the new Because they say that Christ appointed no other forme of regiment then they thought they could haue found to haue beene instituted by Moyses But my conclusion shal be built vppon one of Vdals demonstratiue propositions vz. That gouernement whose originall is vnknowen hath no warrant in Gods word and is vnlawfull But the originall of the Geneua platforme of Discipline is vnknowen therefore it hath no warrant in Gods word and is vnlawfull And thus you see that as I sayd in the beginning the first time that euer this fained Geneuian deuise saw light for ought I can read or iudge was at Geneua Whether for my part I doe remitte it again to see if they can deduce the pedigree of it from any further Monuments of antiquity or that else they may blotte it out of their now deuised Creede whereof you shall heare hereafter CHAP. VI. The seekers of the pretended Discipline are not yet agreede what name they should giue vnto their Hierarchicall parish-meetinges THings for the most part are not long in being before they haue their names In that therefore the name of this pretended gouernement is so vncertaine as now I shall shew you it argueth in my opinion that it is but a counterfaite The time was not long after the creation of all kind of cattell and of the fowles of the Heauen and of the beastes of the field but they were brought to Adam to giue them theyr names And I am perswaded the like course hath still been euer obserued that in a manner as soone as thinges haue had their being they haue also had their names giuen thē or at the least they haue not beene long without them Let Cartwright then first tell vs here if he will still relie vppon his likelihood mentioned in the former Chapter What was the name of his Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy before the law But you shall finde him herein as mute as a fish Marry if you will come to the time of the law when forsooth as Beza saith it was instituted then both he Beza and diuerse others will soone satisfie any man that will not bee wilfull What will they shew it vs in the old Testament Surely the chiefest of them haue not yet done it neyther will they euer be able as I thinke to doe it And therefore they are driuen to seeke it in the Iewes Talmud which is saith Beza blasphemus liber a blasphemous booke Would a man haue thought that men so curious to admitte of nothing that is not in the Scriptures would haue stooped so low as to the Talmud I cannot thinke that seeing Almighty God would not suffer the beastes of the earth and fowls of the aire to be without their names past two or three daies that he could be content that such an excellent creature as this is pretended to bee shoulde be without a name so many hundreth yeares as from Moyses time vntill the Iewes Talmud was made I trust no man will say that Moyses was in this point vnfaithfull or that the Lorde bringing it vnto him to know how he would call it he obstinately refused to giue it any name Peraduenture Moyses a ciuile Magistrate foreseeing that this regiment was to be placed in euery parish or Synagogue and that so he himselfe should become subiect vnto it did seeke to disgrace it as much as he could and therefore left it namelesse Indeed that is an exception which the Atturnies for it in these dayes doe make in effect against such Christian Princes and magistrates as doe refuse to admitte it within their dominions But to come to the name which they finde in the Talmud They say it was called amongest the Iewes Sanedrim a corrupt worde by them vsed that was degenerated from the true Greeke name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Beza doth translate Councell A strange thing that the Hebrew tong should be so penurious as that it was not able to afforde an Hebrewe name to suche a worthy regiment or that it shoulde bee namelesse vntill the Iewes and the Gretians had such familiar intercourse as that they eyther coulde or would vouchsafe to borow any thing from them which as most men thinke was not till Alexanders time or not much before But straunge or not straunge be it as it may be By this doctrine then of the Talmud and maister Bezaes translation shall wee tearme this parochiall regiment a Councell and the Gouernours therein how manie soeuer so manie Councellors Surely this were greatly to the honour of England and to the benefite of her Maiesties subiectes For whereas nowe they haue many occasions to come to the Court to their Lordships for the redresse of manie great enormities they should haue a Councell table to repayre vnto in euerie Parrishe But it will heere bee aunswered peraduenture that wee may not call it a Councell For that our Sauiour Christ minding as they say to translate the forme of the Iewes ecclesiasticall gouernement tearmed Sanedrim from the lawe to the Gospell vsed not that name of Councell but
called it ecclesia that is the Church Very well any thing will content me Howbeit for ought I know there was no cause why it might not haue pleased our sauiour Christ if he had conceiued so notable a liking of that Iewish platforme but that hee might also haue retayned the olde name and so haue made no alteration at all The authour of the booke of Discipline hauing as it should seeme some such like consideration in his head or what other I know not and thinking scorne as I gesse to runne to the Iewes Talmud for a name for this regiment is not afraid to dissent from Caluin Beza his olde tutor Cartwright and a number of other his good maisters here in saying obseruandum est vnà cum re ipsa nomen etiam a Iudaeis ad nos translatum esse It is heere to be obserued that together with the thing it selfe the very name also is translated vnto vs from the Iewes And what name is that Forsooth saith he Nomen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is congregation or church saepius apud Mosen certis delectis viris tribuitur qui a toâ—a congregatione adres obeundas designarentur is often giuen by Moses vnto a certaine number of chosen men that were to be appointed by the whole congregation to deale in sundry affaires So as by this fellowes saying Christ made no alteration at all when he said Dic ecclesiae tell the church but kept euen the olde name of it vz which it had before giuen vnto it by Moses How blinde then was Beza Cartwright and the rest that they could not finde this proper name of their soueraigntie in all the olde testament but were faine to flie to the Talmud But will Beza thinke you take this at his handes No I warrant you For saith he vocabulo ecclesiae significari ciuium conuentum nemo est qui ignoret c. Haebrei 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocant Sed postea communis loquendi consuetudo fecit vt pro eoruÌ„ caetu accipiatur qui ChristuÌ„ profitentur There is no man ignorant that the word ecclesia doth signifie an assembly of Citizens The Hebrews do call it an assembly or company met together But afterward by custome it came to passe that it was taken for the assembly of them that do professe Christ. Which custome I hope it will be confessed did begin about Christes time and not in Moses time And then the disciplinarian Trauerser is very well serued for his sawcinesse in taking vpon him to proceed further then his sayd Maisters had giuen him in commission But howsoeuer these fellows will agree amongst themselues me thinketh a man might be bold by their place of Mathew to call their parochiall regiment by the name of the church For they all wil coÌ„fesse that Christ called it so And then it will follow by their grounds that euery parish or church must haue a newe church erected in it which new church must haue authoritie to command censure the old and so one Church must be ouer another Yea but saith Beza in effect we are rather to follow the apostles in this point then Christ. That which he called Church meaning the Synedrium that is Councell the apostles called presbyteriuÌ„ Eldership Quod Christus ecclesiam iam mutato Synagogae vel Synedrij nomine appellarat Paulus presbyterium nominauni That which Christ called the Church changing the name of Synagoge or Councell Paul called Eldership Againe quod Iudaei Synedrium Christiani presbyterium teste Apostolo vocarant That which the Iewes called Councel the Christians as the Apostle witnesseth called Eldership And why Beza would blush if he could not giue a reason for any thing Idcirco fortassis potius quam Synedrium ne qua pateret calumniandi occasio quasi Christiani statum publicum turbare de magistratuum authoritate ac iurisdictione quicquam ad se protrahere vellent The Apostles peraduenture called this regiment rather Eldership then Councell least there might be giuen thereby some occasion of slaundering as though the christians had purposed to haue troubled the publicke state and to haue taken to themselues some part of the Magistrates authoritie and iurisdiction Well and are we yet come to an issue how we may call this forme of gouernement Shall we tearme it the Eldership No surely if wee will follow some other reformed Churches which are so ofte commended vnto vs. Presbyterium vocare Consistorium apud nos mos est It is the maner and fashion with vs at Geneua saith Beza to call the Eldership a consistorie With whom agreeth I.B. the superintendent as it is thought of the Italian Church in London saying Although we haue in our churches the same order which the Apostles ordained yet we haue changed the name of Eldership do call it now by another name vz consistory And good reason It is so called at Geneua The Apostles call it Eldership but yet they dispensing with that point doe call it as they list Men no doubt of a soueraigne prerogatiue But to proceede It shoulde seeme that as these men haue chaunged the name of Eldership into Consistorie so haue others in some places done it into Synod Against both which sort Bannosius in his long and tedious disciplinarian discourse is verie bold to write his minde that it ought rather to be called Eldership then eyther Synode or consistory And that for two reasons vz first because some men do not distinguish sufficiently the assemblies of the christians from the Synodes of the Iewes and secondly because the Hierarchy of Rome doth call their presbyterium Eldership consistorium a consistory From all these as I suppose many of the French Churches or at the least that of Heidelberge doth dissent For thus Iunius lately a chief Ruler there writeth Concilium ecclesiae Senatumue appellamus quod Paulus presbyterium That which Paul called the Eldership wee call the councell of the churche or the Senate and so the Elders there are Senators Which names both of Senate and Senators sayth Beza Vt ciuilibus dignitatibus couuenientius calumniae obnoxium videtur studio quodam vetus purior ecclesia in occidente repudiasse as being proper to ciuile dignities and subiect to slaunder the olde purer churche in the West doth seeme of purpose to haue reiected And Bannosius affirmeth that the reason that moued those where hee was to call the Eldershippe a consistorie was quod nomen minus odiosum quam Senatus esset because it was a name lesse odious then the name of Senate You haue heard also before out of Beza that the Apostles themselues refused the name of Synedrium as being all one with Councell or Senate for the same respects But all this notwithstanding now that belike they thinke themselues in some places to haue laid such sufficient foundations for the coÌ„tinuance of their regiment as that it shall not be remoued what soeuer the Magistrates shall
as much authoritie as anye King maie lawfully challenge we abbridge her of nothing that the worde of God alloweth her and many other such ambiguous protestations they vse to make in this behalfe But they plav the deceitfull sophisters whom the Lord abhorreth For these are some of their grounds A man would thinke that they had taken them out of Hosius The Christian soueraigne ought not to be called the head vnder Christ of the particular and visible churches vvithin his dominions No ciuile magistrat hath prehemineÌ„ce by ordinary authoritie to determine of church-causes No ciuile magistrat in Councels or assemblies for church-matters can either be cheefe moderator ouer-ruler iudge or determiner No ciuile magistrat hath such authoritie as that vvithout his consent it should not be lavvfull for ecclesiastical persons to make any church-order or ceremonie No ciuile magistrat ought to receiue either tenths or first fruits of any ecclesiasticall persons The iudgemeÌ„t of church-matters pertaineth to God they ought ordinarily to be handled by the church-officers the principallitie or direction of the iudgement of them is by Gods ordinance pertaining to the ministerie of the Church As for the making of orders and ceremonies in the church they do vvhen there is a constituted and ordered church pertaine vnto the ministers of the church and to the ecclesiasticall gouernors and that as they meddle not vvith the making of ciuile lavves and lavves for the common-vvealth so the ciuile magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies pertaining to the church The ministers are to determine of controuersies as they arise and to make or abolish needfull or hurtfull ceremonies Herevnto may be added that which is before obserued how he ascribeth the same right in church causes to an infidel or prophane magistrat that he doth to any Christian princes and of their mutuall agreement with the Pope himselfe in the manner of both their excluding of Christian magistrats from hauing any thing to do as vnder Christ in his Church Hitherto then concerning all these puritane-popish assertious so much derogating from the lawfull authoritie of Christian princes There is but only this difference betwixt them the rankest Iesuits in Europe that what the one sort ascribe to the Pope and his shauelings the other do challenge to themselues and their Aldermen Vpon which occasion Cartvvright finding himselfe with his fellowes ranged to walke step by step with such a crue taketh vpon him like some dawber or bricklaier to make a high wall as he tearmeth it betwixt the Papists and them in this point But God knoweth it is a simple one and so thinne that you may easily looke through it and discerne them marching both togither First sayth he the Papists exempt their priests from the punishment of the ciuile magistrate vvhich vve doe not It is reason in deed you should not But if you doe not what doe these things mean The author of the second admonition desireth that he and his companions may be deliuered by act of Parlement from the authoritie of the ciuile magistrates as Iustices and others and from their inditings and finings Furthermore where Cartvvright sayth that the authoritie of christian Princes commeth immediately from God and not from Christ as he is mediator and that the authoritie of the svvord is the same ordinance of God as vvell in heathen princes as in Christians doth it not follow that in his iudgement Christian princes haue no authoritie ouer any of their subiects but only as they are men and not as they are either Christians or priests If you thinke it doth not then what T.C. wanteth I.B. doth supplie and that in proper tearmes as if it please you to peruse the place it will appeare vnto you Besides there goeth a letter from hand to hand written by certaine gentlemen of Suffolke to the Lords of her maiesties councell wherein there is great complaint made in the behalfe of certaine of the brotherhood as a matter fit to bee reformed that being ministers they had at their assises bene presented brought to the barre endicted arraigned and condemned Which dealing they tearme to be very hard and tending to the vtter discredit of the vvhole ministerie and profession of truth So that of all likelihood for all Cartvvrights saying both he and his fellowes could be well contented to be exempted from the ciuile magistrats But let vs heare the papists vpon this point or first part of Cartvvrights wall and peraduenture you shall find them as forward for their subiection herein as hee himselfe is or at the least as small a difference betwixt them as euer you saw though it were betweene two twiâ—nes Good kings may put bishops and priests in mind of their duties and bridle both their riot and arrogancie The prince by the vvord of God may make lavves for the obseruation of both tables and punish the trangressors I do here presently offer my selfe to receaue a corporall â—ath vpon the Euangelists that I do vtterly thinke and am persuaded in my conscience that the Queenes highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this realme and of all other her highnesse dominions and countries c. And further I shall presently svveare that her highnesse hath vnder God the soueraignty and rule ouer all maner of persons borne vvithin these her highnesse realms of vvhat estate ecclestasticall or temporall soeuer they be Fatemur person as EpiscoparuÌ„ qui in toto orbe fuerunt Romano imperatori subiectos fuisse VVe confesse that the persons of all the Bishops in the vvorld vvere subiect to the Romane emperour Rex praeest hominibus Christianis verum non quia sunt Christiani sed quia sunt homines quoniam ipsi episcopi sunt homines episcopis etiam ea ex parte rex praeesset The king ruleth christiaÌ„s not as they are christiaÌ„s but as they are men because bishops are men the king in that respect hath authoritie ouer them Harding also confesseth that if the causes be ciuile and temporall and all other causes our reformers do tie to their Elderships Bishops may be conuented before ciuile authoritie And it appeareth amongst all the learned Papists that the cheese prerogatiue they haue had in this point hath proceeded from the meere fauour and good will of Christian Princes the rather to couer and keepe from the people such faults in the Clergie as might breed their contempt Hitherto then this wall riseth vp but easily especially if I should adde in this place the brethren of Scotland their diuinitie for this matter when they not the Papists gaue the king and state occasion to make it by act of Parlement 1584 treason for any man to refuse to answer before the king though it were concerning any matter which was ecclesiasticall Now concerning the second part of Cartvvrights wall it is this The Papists sayth he vvill haue the Prince to
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
euerie king prince being as he saith a new Pope by that meanes much worse then the olde So that hereby you see what is the drift of our factious cōsistorians in laboring to make the name of the Canō law odious You may not think that they differ in substance frō their M. Viretus but they are growē more crafty The matter that pincheth thē is this that in the acts of Parliament which are in force there is euer a Prouiso that nothing therof shal be in force which is contrary to the laws of this Realme or to the prerogatiue roiall of the prince If euer anie K. in England should be so far seduced as that he would yeald to establish their counterfeit elderships in this Realme with all the royall authoritie which they challenge of right to belong vnto thē changing the two former prouisoes should enact it that all the canō-law shold be in force sauing so much as should bee contrary to the orders prerogatiue of their elderships If I shold then be aliue as I trust I shall not I durst before hand hazard a great wager vpon it that they would most readily with a great applause receiue it almost worship it For as I said you may not imagine but that Viretus hath disclosed their verie hartes You know there is in euery church for the most part a distinctiō of places betwixt the cleargie the laity We terme one place the chauncell the other the bodie of the church which manner of distinctiō doth greatly offend the tender consciences forsooth of the purer sorte of our reformers Insomuch as M. Gilby a chiefe mā in his time amongst thē doth tearme the Quire a cage reckoneth that separatiō of the ministers from the congregation one of the hundred points of popery which hee affirmeth do yet remaine in the church of England Howbeit admit but of their elderships into euery parish thē you haue thē who will proue it out of the word of God that there ought to be such a separation of their Aldermen euery one of thē though he be but a Cobler from the rest of the Idiots that is all the other parishioners of what state soeuer Hic or do in ecclesia seruetur c. Let this order be obserued in the church saith Danaeus he sendeth vs the rule frō Geneua that these who do beare any office in the church distinguātur et separentur a reliquo populo may be distinguished separated frō the rest of the people c. It a fieri decorū est et vtile For it is decēt profitable that it should be so The Bishop he meaneth euery minister must stand or sit eminente loco alofte c. and let the elders sit by him tum vt populo appareant that the people may beholde them tum vt ministri concionantis doctrinam facilius intelligant et obseruent and that they maye the more easily heare the doctrine of the Minister preaching and the better marke it For of likelihood they are to be the preachers Censors You wil saie peraduenture wher there is some L. Maior some Councellor of state or some other great Magistrate Nay the King himselfe for he must bee of some parish where shall he or anie of them sit That is wiselie prouided for I warrant you For how should it otherwise be seeing the Prouiso commeth from Geneua Magistratus pius c. Let the godly Magistrate who is an honorable member of the Church sit in an honourable and perspicuous place where the Church may neither seeme to fauoure the arrogancy and pride of men nor the contempte of Magistrates And great discretion therein surely If the Magistrate should sit too high it would make him proude if too low it would bring him into contempt Ergo modus in loco illi concedendo seruetur c therefore let a mean be kept in appointing of a place vnto him Knight Lorde Earle Duke King or Emperour the holie Discipline respecteth no mens persons that he may both vnderstand he is preferred before the rest and yet withall that he hath no dominion ouer the word of God In deede excesse in anie thing is nought Sedeat itaque inferiori subsellio let him therfore sit in a lower seat then the preacher of the word of God and the Prophet that he may both see and acknowledge himselfe to be subiect to the threats of the word The parson or Bishop of euerie parish with his Artizan Elders must sitte in the highest place that the people may feede themselues with the sight of them the ciuile Magistrates of what degree soeuer must content themselues with inferior roomes and the rest of the people are to sit super mattas sedilia inferiora vppon pesses and little lowe formes I am perswaded it would greatlie trouble the subiects of England to see such a Metamorphosis in her Maiesties Chappell But see what a notable thing Discipline is and how the Ministers of Geneua can plaie the Herralds in marshalling of euerie state into their due places according to their callings If these men were then in England and should suruey our Quiers I suppose nothing would offend them but that that they are too low The place where the Roode-loft was would bee thought peraduenture more sutable for their Elders Indeed there the people might best behold them Lastlie because I will end this Chapter if Cartwright can get but one Scholiaste that doth in shew make for anie thing he liketh it is notable to see what reuill hee maketh with it And in like sort Maister Beza when the Fathers do fit him as in some points they doe against Erastus then these manner of phrases are common Rectè obseruauit Augustinus Augustine wel obserued it c. Againe an vero Chrys. c. what doe you thinke that Chrysostome and all the old Churches not one excepted saw not this Againe Hic te obtestamur frater c. we do here besech you brother that you would wel consider in whose behalfe and against whom you dispute cum rem ipsam ab vsu non distinguas when you distinguish not the thing it selfe from the abuse of it Againe Haec Chrysostomus quae tibi satisfacere rectè debent These thinges Chrysostome affirmeth which ought to satisfie you fully Again Nunquam aliter fuit hic locus in Ecclesia explicatus This place was neuer otherwise expounded in the Church And againe A temporibus Apostolorum ad haec vsque secula nunquam illa caruerunt Ecclesiae From the Apostles times euen vnto the age wherein we liue the Church did neuer want autoritie of Excommunication And as at times they are content to accept of the Fathers so will they also vpon the like occasion allow of generall Councells Whereas certaine persons in Transiluania beganne to reuiue diuerse old Heresies about the person of Christ Maister Beza writeth in this sorte An non in