Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	ecclesiastical_a	governor_n	supreme_a	3,829	5	8.9454	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08533	The picture of a Puritane: or, A relation of the opinions, qualities, and practises of the Anabaptists in Germanie, and of the Puritanes in England VVherein is firmely prooued, that the Puritanes doe resemble the Anabaptists, in aboue fourescore seuerall thinges. By Oliuer Ormerod, of Emmanuel Colledge in Cambridge. Wherunto is annexed a short treatise, entituled, Puritano-papismus: or a discouerie of Puritan-papisme.	Ormerod, Oliver, 1580?-1626.	1605 (1605)	STC 18852; ESTC S113478	77,758	124

on the Popes side in this matter His wordes are these c lib. 2. page 48. The Christian Soueraigne ought not to be called the hoad vnder Christ of the particular and visible Churches within his Dominions The Puritane But doe any of our writers spoy le the Ciuil Magistrate of all gouernment in Ecclesiastical matters as the Papists doe The Protestant Yes the Admonitors say in plaine tearmes that d Admon page 126. to these three ioyntly that is the Ministers Seniors and Deacons is the whole regiment of the Church to be committed Now if the whole gouernment of the Church be to be committed to Ministers Seniors and Deacons what authoritie remaineth to the ciuill Magistrate in the gouernment of it The Puritane a These are the words of T. C. page 153. I answere in the name of the Authors of the Admonition that the Prince and ciuill Magistrate hath to see that the lawes of God touching his worship and touching all matters and orders of the Church be executed and duely obserued and to see that euery Ecclesiasticall person doe that office whereunto he is appointed and to punish those which faile in their office accordingly As for the making of the orders and ceremonies of the Church they do where there is a const●●uted and ordered Church pertaine to the Ministers of the Church c. The Protestant I reply with the wordes of the late Reuerend Archbishop b In his defence of the answere to the Admon page 694. 695. 696. VVhat no more but to see them executed how differeth this from Papists The Papists giue to the Christian Magistrate in Ecclesiasticallmatters potestatem facts noniuris that is to see those lawes executed and put in practise that the Pope and his Cleargie shall make and to be as it were their executioner but not to make any lawes in Ecclesiasticall matters for doth not Saunders a popish writer say the same c saunders fol. 64. Although I do not deny saith he that the knowledge of a fact that belongeth to the Ecclesiasticall lawe may be committed to Kinges and Magistrates and before the Ecclesiasticall cause be determined the King may vse his authoritie to this ende that there may bee some quiet place prepared where the Bishops shall consult and that the Bishops be called to the same place at a certaine day and that in the meane time while the matter is in determining common peace may bee preserued euen among the Priestes themselues To conclude after the cause be determined and iudged by the Priestes the King may punish him with the sword which hee carieth not in vaine or by some other corporall punishment which shalrefuse to obey the sentence of the Priestes a Muscul in locis com-titu● de magistratu Musculus also setteth out this Popish opinion touching the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall affaires very plainly in these wordes Those whome they call Ecclesiasticall Persons and wee call them Papists will not commit to the Magistrate any further authoritie in Religion then to bee the keeper and reuenger of it and of their Ecclesiasticall Lawes that the Ecclesiasticall pollici● may remaine immoouable wherefore they deny hin to haue authoritie in that hee is a Magistrate to make or to publish any Ecclesiasticall lawes because such thinges pertaine to those that do represent the Church whose decrees and constitutions must bee maintained and defended by the authoritie of the Magistrate But to leaue this resemblance what arguments doe the Popish Doctors vse against the Princes authoritie in causes Ecclefiasticall The Puritane b Sanders lib. 2 cap. 1. fol. 27. Saunders c Harding against the Apologie fol. 118. Harding and other of them do quote 2 Chron. 198. 11. which place maketh indeede fully against them for Iehosaphat had chiefe authoritie and gouernment both in thinges pertaining to the Church and in thinges pertaining to the Common-wealth but for better execution of them the one hee did commit to bee executed by Amaziah the Priest the other by Zebadiah a Ruler of the house of Iuda euen as the Kings Maiestie being in all causes both Ecclesiasticall and Temporall within these his Realmes and Dominions supreame gouernour committeth the hearing and iudging of Ecclesiasticall matters to the Reuerend Fathers of the Church and of Temporall matters to the Right honourable the Lord Chancelour and other Iudges Now had Iehosaphat nothing to doe with Church-matters because he made Amaziah Priest iudge in the same they may as well say that bee had nothing to doe in Temporall affaiers because he also appointed Zebadiah to heare and determine them The Protestant True and yet T. C. quoteth the selfe same place to prooue the selfe same thing a T. C. page 145. sect 1. looke saith he in the second Booke of the Cronicles in the 19. Chap. and in the 8. and 11. verses and you shall see that there were a number appointed for the matters of the LORD which were Priestes and Leuits and there were other also appoynted for the Kinges affayers and for matters of the Commō-wealth c. The Puritane But in what other thinges agree we with the Papists The Protestant 1. The Papists would not haue the scriptures read in the Church to the people No more would your Puritane-popish writers for b In their viewe of po Pish abuses remaining fol. 2. they blush not to say that reading is no feeding but as euil as playing vpon a Stage and worse too 2. The Papists condemne our Book of common prayers set out by publique authoritie and the whole order of seruice so doe you 3. The papists say that our Sacraments are not rightly ministred so say you likewise as hath beene already shewed 4. The Papists say that we haue no right ministerie in England no Pastours no Bishops because they be not rightly and canonically called to these functions the selfe same doe you affirme as hath also beene shewed 5. The Papists auouch that we are not the true church no that wee haue not so much as the outward face and shew of the true Church the selfe same thing do your Puritan-popish teachers auouch in their first Admonition page 33. and in their second admonition page 6. The Puritane All this notwithstanding we come farre short of the Papists for Popery is as a ● B●in his toyle for 2. legged Foxes chap. 3. one truely saith an hotch-potch and miserable mingle-mangle of all Sathans forgeries and diuelish heresies VVith Carpocratian Heretickes they set vp the image of Christ and other Saints with the Anthropomorphits they pain● God the Father like an olde man with a gray beard with the Pelagian Heretickes they maintaine free will power to iustifie our selues and to fulfill the commandements with the Messalians they mumble their Mattens Pater nosters and seauen Psalmes by number vpon a payre of Beades with the Tatians Cataphryges Montanistes and Ebionites they seeke sanctification in eating and not eating in marrying

other sleights besides these that you haue already mencioned The Germaine The 9. semblance YEs b Sleidan in C●m 5. there was one Thomas Muncer a Preacher who as Sleidan and other Germaine-writers reporte did greately labour both by his conferences in priuate by his Sermons in publike to draw the common people from their liking of the present estate The Englishman It hath likewise beene the practise of our factious preachers in their verball Sermons to speake against the stat● ecclesiasticall the book of common prayer the rites ceremonies of the Church of England For the proofe heereof I referre you to the very confession of their owne lippes On Tuesday saith c Anno 1586. one of their owne side T. C. kept Maister Fens Lecture the Text Psalme 122 4. Vnto the end taking thornes as T●emelius doth and vrging the discipline the want whereof he affirmed to be the cause that some friendes for sooke our Church And as this is the practise of some of our factious Ministers in England so is it also the practise of the same faction in Scotland Yea d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Page 38. 39. they snapper out grosselye with the truth of their intentions informing the people that all Kinges and Princes are naturally enemies to the libertye of the Church and can neuer patientlye beare the yoake of Christ with such sound Doctrine fed they their flockes The Germaine The 10. Sēblance THe Anabaptists did not content themselues therewithal but to the end they might doe y● more harme they published factious Bookes to the view of the world as may bee gathered by this speech of Maister Zuinglius to the Magistrates in his time a Zuinglius de Baptism Si hoc cuiuis hominum impune facere licebit vt quae priuato suae rationis consilio adinuenit in vulgus spergat inconsulta imo resistente etiam vniuersatotius ecclesiae authoritate breui plus errorum quam fidelium Christianorum in ecclesia erit cernere If it bee lawfull for euery man to publish abroad among the people those thinges which he hath deuised of his owne head before he hath consulted with the Church nay against the authoritie of the whole Church in short time we shall see more errours in the Church then there be faithful men and Christians And in an other place Si hoc permittamus vt capitosus quisque male-feriatus homo c. If we suffer euery headie braineles fellow so soone as he hath conceiued any new thing in his minde to publish it abroad gather disciples and make a new sect in short time we shall haue so many sects factions that Christ which scarse with a great paine and labour is brought to vnitie in euery church should be deuided againe into many parts The Englishman Neyther did our Puritanes therewithall content themselues but that their poyson might ranckle the farther to the disturbance perrill both of the Church common-wealth they haue published a great number of Bookes which are as fit for the fire as the Bookes of curious Artes Act. 19. Yea and they haue also exhorted the common-people to peruse these their sedicious Pamphlets I pray you say they b In a Booke of theirs entituled the state of the church of England c. Page 10. when you come to London see if you can get these bookes The Ecclesiastical Discipline A learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment The Counterpoyson A Se●mon on the 12. to the Romans and Ma●ster Cartwights last reply some of which bookes haue been extant this dozen yeares and yet are not them answered and you shall there finde that the gouernment of the Church is contrary to the word of God But not to speake onely of their Bookes in g●nerall l●t vs take a view of the Contents thereof in particular The Germaine Our Sectaries did stuffe their bookes with inuectiues and out-cries both against the Magistracie and the Ministerie TO begin with the Magistracie they taught as Maister The 11. sēblance a Bulling aduers Anabap. Fol. 19. Bullinger also recordeth that the Ci●il Magistrate hath no authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters and that hee ought not to meddle in causes of Religion and Faith The Englishman Our Sectaries come not farre behinde them heerein as appeareth by these their spee●hes b T. C. lib. 1. Page 192 for the making of orders and ceremonies in the Church saith T. C. they doe where there is a constituted ordered Church pertaine vnto the Ministers of the church and to the Ecclesiasticall gouernours and that as they meddle not with the making of ciuill Lawes and Lawes for the common-wealth so the ciuill Magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies partaining to the Church c T. C lib 2 Page 1●5 And againe No ciuil Magistrates in councels or assemblies for Church-matters can eyther be chiefe moderator ouer-ruler Iudge or d●t●rminer d Admon 2 No ciuil Magistrate say the admonitors hath such authoritie as that without his consent it should not be lawfull for ecclesiasticall persons to make any church-order or ceremonie e Admon 1 And againe To these three ioyntlie that is the Ministers Seniors and D●acons is the whole regiment of the Church to be committed By this you may see that our Sectaries doe shake hands both with the Anabaptists the Papists But albeit these three contrary factions haue vnited ioyned themselues together and doe al ioyntly oppugne the Princes authoritie in causes ●cclesiasticall yet the authoritie of the sacred Scriptures the judgement of the auncient Fath●rs the decisions of auncient Counsels and the practi●e of Christian Princes in the p●imatiue Church are able to seuer and dis-ioyne all their forces To beginne with the Scriptures they giue sufficient warrant to ciuill Gouernours to ordaine Lawes in Ecclesiastical causes and doe expressely teach that a 2. Reg 12 4 2 Chro. 19. 4. Ibid●m 30 1 34. 3. Iehosaphat Hezekias and Iosias did make Lawes for the recalling excercising of the Seruice of God As for the Fathers they holde it to bee an Oracle for truth that b Aug. Epi. 48 Kinges doe serue Christ in making lawes for Christ Yea c Aug. Epi. 50 Rex aliter seruit Domino saith Saint Augustine quia homo est aliter quia etiam Rex est Quia homo est ei seruit viuendo fideliter quia vero Rex est seruit leges iust a praecipientes contraria prohibentes conuenienti vigore sanciendo A King serueth the Lord one way as he is a man and an other way as he is a King As hee is a man he serueth him by liuing faithfully As he is a King he serueth him by making lawes with conuenient vigor to cōmaunde that which is right and forbid the contary But not to insist onely vpon Saint Augustins iudgement The d Vide Sozomen lib. 1. cap 17. Bishops that came to the counsell of Nice gaue to the Emperour

d Tit 1 12 Epimenides who were all heathen Poets Is not this a sufficient warrant for a Minister But I see the reason why both your Sectaries and ours doe take such vehement exceptions against Poets Philosophers The Englishman What is the reason The Germaine The 65. sēblance SVrely as e Vide August lib. 3. contra P●til cap. 16 Petilian dispraised Logick Rhethoricke because he himself was igno●āt in those arts so doe our Sectaries contemne all Gentile learning and blame men that make vse of it because they themselues are ignorant therein The Englishman Is this the cause thinke you The Germaine Yes doubtles for as f Greg Nizianz in M●n●d Nazianzene saith non vlla dispicienda disciplina cognitio cum de genere bonorum scientia sit omnis c. There is ●ot any knowledge of learning to be dispised seeing that all science what-soeuer is in the nature and kinde of good thinges Rather those that g Ipsam spermentes rusti●os et plane ignaues existimare de be●●● dispise it we must repute clownish and fluggish altogether who would be glad that all men were ignorant that their owne ignorance lying in the common heap might not be espyed The Englishman Well then they are like the Foxe that despiseth the Grapes which himselfe cannot reach The Germaine Nay they are rather like that olde Foxe a V●lpec●l● c●●●● amissa reliquis ●●lp●bus calli● p●rsuasit vt similiter et ipsa ca●das resecarent ●● sola ●●rpis et defor●●● in su● gener● vider●●●r Melanct. who hauing had a mischance and lost his tayle went straight way to the Beastes of the same kinde and fell to perswade thē euery one to cut of his tayle pleading the waightines and combersomnes of it with many the like circumstances but the matter comming throughly to bee examined and scand it was found that the craftie Foxe did it onely to couer his owne deformitie which if to be without tayles had once become a fashion should neuer haue beene ●spied But to speake in earnest there were other reasons besides this why our S●ctaries dispise all Gentile and Prophane learning The Englishman What other The Germaine IT appeareth by the preface of Luther vpon the Epistle The 66. sēblance to the Galathians that our Anabaptistes condēned the graces and workes of God for the in digni●ie and vnworthynesse of the persons and subiects in whome they were found The Englishman So doe our Puritanes likewise contemne the writinge● of the Gentiles because the authors thereof were wicked prophane and superstitious Idolaters I speake what I knowe to be the opinion of some of them The Germaine To such may you fitly say as Ierome said to Ruffinus in his time volo sis api argumentos● similis c. I would haue thee like the wittie discoursing Bee which from a nettle gathereth hony But let vs leaue this particular and proceed in order to some other matter The Englishman No before I leaue this particular let me shew you how greately they esteeme of their owne writers The Germaine The 67. sēblance VVHat doe they preferre them as our Anabaptists did theirs before the auncient fathers who were the verie pillers of Religion Christianity in their daies The Englishman Yes before all the best late writers too For the iustifying of wha● I haue said I will acquaint you with the expresse wordes of some of T. C. his proselytes and followers I thanke God quoth one b F. to 1 A●●● Dom. 1586 of them I haue satisfied in part my longing with T. C. of whome I thinke at she● did of Salomon Wee want Bookes c F to G A●●● Dom. ●58● said an other wherby we may come to the knowledge of the truth I meane T. C his Bookes Yea T. C. saith the DISPLAYER OF MEN IN THEIR COLOVRS is a man as well able to iudge as all the Lord Bishops in Christendom● Henserui regnant Famuli dominantur Asselli Ornantur phaleris de phalarantur equi But to proceede howsoeuer his Proselites account of his Bookes it is moste true that they are Puritan popish and tha● they haue indeede beene d Viru● eccles ●t r●i● the verye poyson of Church and Common-wealth Not to conceale Doctor Whitaker his iudgement touching this point Quem C●rtwrightus saith he speaking of his second reply ●●per emisit libellum 〈◊〉 magnam partem perlegi Ne viuamsi quid vnquam viderim dissolutius ac paene puerilius Verborū sati● ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet rerū omnino nullam quantum ●go iudicare poss●m Deinde nō modo per●ersse de Principis in rebus s●cris atque ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit sed in papistar● etiam castra transfugit a quibus tamē videri vult idi● capitali dissidere Ver●mne in hac causa ferendus et alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis m●t●atur Denique vt d● Ambrosi● dixit Hi●ronim●s verbis ●●dit plan●que indignus est qui a quop ā docto confutetur That is I haue read ouer a great part of that Book which Cart wright hath lately published I pray God I liue not if euer I sa●● any thing more dissolute and almost more childish He hath ingreat store of plausible wordes but no substance as farre as I can iudge Furthermore he thinketh not onely perue●sly of the Princes authoritie in ecclesiasticall affaires but he flyeth into the very tents of the Papists from whome he would be thought to dissent with a deadly ha●red But he is not to be suffered in this cause and in other partes he borroweth weapons from the Papists To conclude as Ie●ome said of Ambrose he playeth with wordes and is flatly vnworthy to be confuted of any learned man Loe this is the iudgement which this learned iudicious diuine gaue of T. C. his bookes which many now a dayes doe make as great account of as of Oracles And thus much concerning our Puritan-Popish teachers now let vs come to their Proselytes followers The Germaine To their Proselytes what haue they any Proselites The Englishman Yes they haue compassed sea and land haue made many their Proselites the children of error as deeply as themsel●es The Germaine And indeed so did our Anabaptists too The Englishman Of what sorte I pray you were their Proselytes and followers The Germaine The 6● sēblance OF what sorte Master Bullinger telleth you that such of the vulger sort a● were of contentious natures Bullinger ad●ers ●nab●p ioyned with them and commended their doings Amongst the rest there was one Iohn of Leyden a Towne in Holland hauing none other name by reason of his ignobility being but a Cobler by his occupation who came into the Citie of Munster which is the principall Citie of Westphalia a Pouince in Germany and there became an egregious Anabaptist The Englishman What! were your chiefe Cities pestred with Anabaptists The Germaine The 69. sēblance