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cause_n	doctrine_n	general_a	great_a	156	4	2.1088	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77478	A review of the seditious pamphlet lately pnblished [sic] in Holland by Dr. Bramhell, pretended Bishop of London-Derry; entitled, His faire warning against the Scots discipline. In which, his malicious and most lying reports, to the great scandall of that government, are fully and clearly refuted. As also, the Solemne League and Covenant of the three nations justified and maintained. / By Robert Baylie, minister at Glasgow, and one of the commissioners from the Church of Scotland, attending the King at the Hague.	Baillie, Robert, 1599-1662.	1649 (1649)	Wing B467; Thomason E563_1; ESTC R10643	69,798	84

for the Word and Sacraments so for discipline in this all who are Christians old and late the Prelaticall and Popish party as well as others go along with us to maintain in doctrin and practise a necessity even in times of persecution that the Church must meet for the worship of God and execution of Ecclesiastick discipline among their own Members In this the doctrine and practise of the Scots is according to their setled laws uncontroverted by his Majestie If the VVarner will maintain that in reason and conscience all the Churches of the world are obliged to dissolve and never more to meet when an erroneous Magistrate by his Tyrannous Edict commands them to do so let him call up Erastus from the dead to be disciplined in this new doctrine of the Prelats impious loyalty The third Principle is that the judgment of true and false doctrine The finall determination of all Ecclesiastick causes by the Laws of Scotland is in the generall Assembly of suspension and deprivation of Ministers belongeth to the Church Ans If this be a great heresie it is to be charged as much upon the State as upon the Church for the Acts of Parliament give all this power to the Church neither did the Laws of England or of any Christian State Popish or Protestant refuse to the Church the determination of such Eccclesiastick causes some indeed do debate upon the power of appeals from the Church but in Scotland by the Law as no appeal in things civil goes higher then the Parliament so in matters Ecclesiastick none goes above the Generall Assembly Complaints indeed may go to the King and Parliament for redresse of any wrong has been done in Ecclesiastick Courts who being Custodes Religionis may by their coercive power command Ecclesiastick Courts to rectifie any wrong done by them contary to Scripture or if they persist take order with them But that two or three P●aelates should become a Court of delegates to receive appeals from a general assembly neither Law nor practice in Scotland did ever admit nor doth the word of God or any Equity require it In the Scots assemblies no causes are agitat but such as the Parliament hath agreed to be Ecclesiastick and of the Churches cognisance no process about any Church rent was ever cognosced upon in Scotland but in a civill Court it s very false that ever any Church censure much lesse the highest of excommunication did fall upon any for robbing the Church of its patrimony The divine right of discipline is the tenet of the most of Praelats Our fourth challenged principle is that we maintain Ecclesiastick jurisdiction by a divine right Ans Is this a huge crime is there divine right in the world either Papist or Protestant except a few praelatical Erastians but they doe so If the Warner will profess as it seems he must the contradiction of that which he ascribes to us his avowed tenet must be that all Ecclesiastick power flowes from the Magistrate that the Magistrate himself may execute all Church censures that all the Officers appointed by Christ for the government of his Church may be laid aside and such a kind of governors be put in their place as the Magistrate shall be pleased to appoint that the spiritual sword and Keyes of heaven belong to the Magistrate by vertue of his supremacy as wel as the temporal sword and Keyes of his earthly Kingdom our difference herefrom the Warner will not I hope be found the greatest heresie All the power of the Church in Scotland is legal and with the Magistrates consent Our last challenged principle is that we will have all our power against the Magistrate that is although he dissent Ans It is an evil commentary that all must be against the Magistrate which is done against his consent but in Scotland there is no such case for all jurisdiction which the Church there doth enjoy they have it with the consent of the Magistrate all is ratified to them by such acts of Parliament as his Maj●stie doth not at all controvert Concerning that odious case the Warner intimates whither in time of persecution when the Magistrate classheth with the Church any Ecclesiastick discipline be then to be exercised himself can better answer it then we who with the ancient Christians do think that on all hazards even of life the Church may not be dissolved but meet in dens and in the caves and in the wilderness for the word and Sacraments and keeping it self pure by the divine ordinance of Discipline Having cleered all the pernicious practises and all the wicked D●ctrines which the Warner layes upon us The Prelats rather then to lay aside their own interest will keep the King and his people in misery for ever I think it needless to insist upon these defences which he in his abundant charity brings for us but in his own way that he may with the greater advantage impugne them only I touch one passage whereupon he makes injurious exclamations that which Mr. Gilespie in his theoremes writes when the Magistrate abuses his power unto Tyranny and makes havock of all it is lawful to resist him by some extraordinary wayes and means which are not ordinarily to be allowed see the principles from which all our miseries and the loss of our Gratious Master hath flowed Ans We must here yeeld to the Warner the great equity and necessity that every doctrine of a Presbyter should be charged on the Presbytery it self and that any Presbyter teaching the lawfulness of a Parliaments defensive arms is tantamont to the Churches taking of armes against the King These smal inconsequences we must permit the Warner to swallow down without a stick however we do deny that the maxime in hand was the fountain of any of our miseries or the cause at all of the loss of our late Soveraign Did ever his Majesty or any of his advised Councellors declare it simply unlawful for a Parliament to take arms for defence in some extraordinary cases however the unhappiness of the Canterburian Praelats did put his Majesty upon these courses which did begin and promote all our miserie and to the very last these men were so wicked as to refuse the loosing of the bands which their hands had tyed about his misinformed conscience yea to this day they will not give their consent that his Majestie who now is should lay aside Episcopacy were it for the gaining of the peaceable possession of all his three Kingdoms but are urgers of him night and day to adhere to their errours upon the hazard of all the miseries that may come on his person on his family and all his people yet few of them to this day durst be so bold as to print with this Warner the unlawfulness of a Parliaments armes against the Tyranny of a Prince in any imaginable case how extraordinary soever CHAP. III. The Lawes and customes of Scotland admit of no appeal from the

general assembly IN this Chapter the challenge is that there are no appeals from the general Assembly to the King as in England from the Bishops Courts to the King in Chauncery Appeales in Scotland from a generall Assem●ly were no lesse irrational then illegall where a Commission uses to be given to delegats who discusse the appeals Ans The warner considers not the difference of the Government of the Church of Scotland from that which was in England what the Parliament is in the State that the general assembly is in the Church of Scotland both are the highest Courts in their own kinde There is no appeal any where in moderate Monarchies to the Kings person but to the King in certain legall Courts as the Warner here confesseth the appeal from Bishops lies not to the King in his person but to the King in his Court of Chancery As no man in Scotland is permitted to appeal in a civill cause from the Lords of Session much lesse from the Parliament so no man in an ecclesiastick cause is permitted by the very civil Law of Scotland to appeal from the general Assembly According to the Scots order and practice the King in person or else by his high Commissioner sits as usually in the generall Assembly as in Parliament But though it were not so yet an appeal from a generall Assembly to be discussed in a court of Delegats were unbeseeming and unreasonable the one court consisting of above two hundred all chosen men the best and most able of the Kingdom the other but of two or three often of very small either abilities or integrity who yet may be more fit to discern in an Ecclesiastick cause then a single Bishop or his Official the ordinary Trustee in all acts of Jurisdiction for the whole Dioces But the Scots way of managing Ecclesiastick causes is a great deal more just safe and Satisfactory to any rational man then that old Popish order of the English where all the spirituall Jurisdiction of the whole Dioces was in the hand of one mercenary Officiall without all relief from his Sentence except by an appeal as of old to the Pope and his Delegats so thereafter to the King though never to be cognosced upon by himself but as it was of old by two or three Delegats the weakest of all Courts often for the quality and ever for the number of the Judges The Churches ●●st severity a●●inst Mont●●mery A●●mson was ●proven by ●●e King and ●●e parties ●●mselves Two Instances are brought by the Warner to prove the Church of Scotlands stopping of appeals from the generall Assembly to the King the cases of Montgomery and Adamson if the causes and events of the named cases had been well known to the Warner as he made this chapter disproportionably short so readily be might have deleted it altogether But these men were infamous not onely in their Ministeriall charges but in their life and conversation both became so insolent that contrary to the established order of the Church and Kingdom being suborned by wicked Statesmen who in that day of darkness had well neer brought ruine both to King and Countrey would needs take upon them the Office of Arch-Bishops While the Assembly was in Process with them for their manifold and high misdeameanors the King was moved by them and their evil Patrons to shew his high displeasure against the Assemblies of the Church they for his Maj●sties satisfaction sent their Commissioners and had many conferences whereby the pride and contempt of these Prelats did so encrease that at last they drew the sentence of Excommunication upon their own heads the King after some time did acknowledge the equity of the Church proceedings and professed his contentment therewith both these unhappy men were brought to a humble confession of their crimes and such signs of repentance that both after a renunciation of their titulary Bishopricks were re-admitted to the function of the Ministry which they had deserted Never any other before or after in Scotland did appeal from the generall Assembly to the King the late Excommunicate Prelate in their declinator against the Assembly of Glasgow did not appeal as I remember to the King but to another Generall Assembly to be constitute according to their own Popish and Tyrannicall principles CHAP. IV. Faulty Ministers in Scotland are lesse exempted from punishment then any other men THe Warner in his fourth Chapter The pride of Prelats lately but never the Presbytery did exempt their fellows from punishment for their civill faults offers to prove that the Scotish Discipline doth exempt Ministers from punishment for any treason or sedition they can act in their Pulpits Answ This challenge is like the rest very false The rules of the Church Discipline in Scotland obliges Churchmen to be subject to punishment not only for every fault for which any other man is lyable to censure but ordains them to be punished for sundry things which in other men are not at all questionable and whatever is consu●able in any they appoint it to be much more so in a Minister It is very untru● that the Pulpits in Scotland are Sanctuaries for any crime much lesse for the grievous crimes of sedition and treason Let the Warner remember how short a time it is since an Episcopall Chaire or a Canonicall Co●t did priviledge in England and Ireland from all censure either of Church or State great numbers who were notoriously known to be guilty of the foulest crimes Was ever the War●●●● companion Bishop Aderton challenged for his Sodomy so long as their common Patron of Canterbury did rule the Court did the Warner never hear of a Prelate very sibb to D●ctor Bramble who to this day was never called to any account for flagrant scandals of such crimes as in Scotland are punishable by the Gallows the Warner doth not well to insist upon the Scots Clergy exempting themselves from civill punishments no where in the world are Churchmen more free of crimes deserving civill Cognisance then in Scotland and if the ears and eyes of the World may be trusted the Popish Clergy this day in Italy and Spaine are not so challengeable as the Prela●icall Divines in England and Ireland lately were for many gross● misdemeanors The Warner is injurious to the Ministers of Holland But why does the Warners anger run out so far as to the Preachers in Holland is it because he knoweth the Church D scipline in Holland to be really the same with that he oppugnes in the Scots and that all the Reformed Churches doe joyn cordially with Scotland in their rejection of Episcopacy is this a ground for him to slander our Brethren of Holland Is it charity for him a stranger to publish to the World in print that the Ministers in Holland are seditious Orators and that they saucily controll the Magistrates in their Pulpits Their crime seems to be that for the love of Christ their Master they are

King of his Tythes first Fruits Patronage and Dependence of his Subjects Ans The Warner understands not what he writes The Kings Majesty in Scotland never had never craved any First fruits The Church never spoiled the King of any Tithes some other men indeed by the wickedness most of Prelates and their followers did cozen both the King and the Church of many Tythes but his Majesty and the Church had never any controversie in Scotland about the Tythes for the King so far as concerned himsef was ever willing that the Church should enjoy that which the very Act of Parliament acknowledgeth to be her patrimony Nor for the patronages had the Church any plea with the King the Church declared often their mind of the iniquity of patronages wherein they never had from the King any considerable opposition but from the Nobility and Gentry the opposition was so great that for peace sake the Church was content to let patronages alone till God should make a Parliament lay to heart what was incumbent for gracious men to do for liberating Congregations from their slavery of having Ministers intruded upon them by the violence of Patrons Which now at last blessed be God according to our mind is performed As for the dependence of any vassalls upon the King it was never questioned by any Presbyterian in S otla d. K. James avowes himself a hat●● of E●●stian●sm What is added in the rest of the Chapter is but a repetition of that which went before to wit the Presbyters denying to the King the spirituall Government of the Church and the power of the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven such an usurpation upon the Church King James declared under his hand as at length may be se●n in the Historicall vindication to be a sin against the Father Son and Holy Ghost which puts in the hand of the Magistrate the power of Preaching and celebrating the Sacraments a power which since that time no Magistrate in Britaine did assume and if any would have claimed it none would have more opposed then the most zealous Patrons of Episcopacy The injurious invectives which the Warner builds upon this his Erastian assertion we pass them as Castles in their ayr which must fall and evanish for want of a foundation Only before I leave this Chapter let the Warner take a good Sentence out of the mouth of that wise Prince King James to testifie yet farther his mind against Erastianisme His Majestie in the year 1617 having come in progress to visit his ancient Kingdom of Scotland and being present in person at a publick disputation in Theologie in the University of St. Andrews whereof also many both Nobles and Church-men of both Kingdoms were auditors when one of those that acted a part in the disputation had affirmed and went about to maintaine this Assertion that the King had power to depose Ministers from their Ministeriall function The King himself as abhorring such flattery cried out with a loud voice Ego possum deponere Ministri caput sed non possum deponere ejus officium CHAP. VII The Presbytery doth not draw from the Magistrate any part of his power by the cheat of any relation IN the seventh Chapter The Presbytery cognosceth only upon scandals and that in fewer civill things then Bishops courts were wont to meddle with the Warner would cause men believe many more of the Presbyteries usurpations upon the Civil Magistrate The first is that all offences whatsoever are cognoscible in the Consistory upon the case of scandal Ans First the Presbytery makes no offence at all to come before the Consistory but Scandall alone Secondly these civil offences the scandall whereof comes before the Presbytery are but very few and a great deal fewer then the Bishops Official takes notice of in his Consistorial Court That capitall crimes past over by the Magistrate should be censured by the Church no society of Christians who have any discipline did ever call in question When the sword of the Magistrate hath spared a Murderer an Adulterer a Blasphemer will any ingenuous either Prelaticall or Popish Divine admit of such to the holy Table without signs of Repentance The Warners second usurpation is but a branch of the first that the Presbytery draws directly before it self the cognisance of fraud in bargaining false measures oppression and in the case of Ministers bribing usury fighting perjury c. Ans Is it then the Warners mind that the notorious slander of such grosse sins does not deserve so much as an Ecclesiasticall rebuke Shall such persons without admonition be admitted to the holy Communion Secondly the named cases of fraud in bargaining false measures oppression come so rarely before our Church-judicatories that though this thirty years I have been much conversant in Presbyteries yet did I never see nor doe I remember that ever I heard any of these three cases brought before any Church Assembly In the person of Ministers I grant these faults which the Canons of the Church in all times and places make the causes of deprivation are cognosced upon in Presbyteries but with the good liking I am sure of all both Papists and Prelates who themselves are free of such vices And why did not the Warner put in among the causes of Church-mens deprivation from Office and Benefice Adultery gluttony and Drunkenness Are these in his c. which he will not have cognoscible by the Church in the persons of Bishops and Doctors The Warners third challenge amounts to an high crime that Presbyterian Ministers are bold to preach upon these Scriptures which speak of the Magistrates duty in his Office or dare offer to resolve from Scripture any doubt which perplexeth the conscience of Magistrates or People of Husband or Wife of Master or Servant in the discharge of their Christian duty one to another What ever hath bin the negligence of the Bishop of Derry yet I am sure all the preaching Prelates and Doctors of England pretended a great care to goe about these uncontroverted parts of their Ministeriall Function and yet without medling with the Mysteries of State or the depths of any mans particular vocation much less with the judgment of jurisdiction in Political or Aeconomical causes The Ch●rc●es p●oceedings in t●e late engagement ●leered from mist●kes As for the Churches declaration against the Late engagement did it not well become them to signifie their judgment in so great a case of conscience especially when the Parliament did propone it to them for resolution and when they found a conjunction driven on with a clearly Malignant Party contrary to solemn oathes and covenants unto the evident hazard of Religion and them who had been most eminent instruments of its preservation was it not the Churches duty to give warning against that sin and to exhort the ring-leaders therein to repentance But our Warner must needs insist upon that unhappy engagement and fasten great blame upon the Church for giving any advice