e Bellar. de nâ—â— eccl c. 2. When the question is concerning the Church which it is and the Scripture is admitted on both hands then the Scripture is more apparent and easier to know then the Church So that the Papists do but spend time and mocke the world in obiecting to vs the authoritie and dignitie of their Church they may do it as they list one to another but in their controuersies with vs they may not not onely because we reiect it but principally for as much as the doctrine of the Scripture by their owne verdict is easier and plainer 4 Neither are the Iesuites reasons to the contrary of any value For I grant that to the finding out of the true faith we haue need of learning iudgement and illumination as the meanes Yea the doctrine hereof is so hard to natural men as we are all till God haue regenerate vs f Ioh. 7.17 8.31.43 14 17. 1 Cor. 2.14 2. Cor. 3.14 Mat. 16.17 Iob 32.8 that it goeth beyond the capacity of flesh and bloud But he should haue remembred the ministery of the Church and light of Gods spirit helpeth our infirmities the doctrine it selfe is a light shining through all these incumbrances These meanes are not such but the simple may attaine to a sufficient portion thereof and his Ad haec quis idoneus with that which followeth is denied as an idle conceit and g §. 7. 8. alreadie confuted And let the impediments be what they will yet shall the Iesuite finde them in the way of his owne Church and let him if he can free his owne notes from them For is his Catholicke Romane which so eagerly he putteth to his friend such a Church as needeth neither learning nor iudgement nor the light of heauen to discerne it If it be I am content he enioy it himselfe neither will I euer perswade my friends to communicate with that companie which is so famous that the very wind wil blow a man into it And yet h Staple relect controu 1. q. 3. Greg de ValeÌ„t commen theol tom 3. pag. 145. some of the Iesuites owne side will say sometime that they had need both of wisedome and skill that shall alwayes discerne the Church 5 The text of Esay speaketh of the ministery of the Gospell and it meaneth that it shall infallibly guide the meanest people that liue therein to eternall life which it doth by propounding to them the word of God that thereby they may know it to be the true Church and be drawne to walke in the paths thereof And though the Prophet call it a direct way yet I am sure he meaneth not that any can walke in it till he haue found it or any can finde it i Esa 35.5 till his eyes be opened k Ioh. 12.40 Act. 26.18 2. Cor. 4.4 which is done no way but by the doctrine of the Church Or if he think the way of the Church so easie because the holy Prophet calleth it a direct way that fooles may walke in it let him say vnfainedly if his affection to the Romane Helena haue not blinded h s eyes l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theocr. Bucoliast as louers are blind and besotted his conscience that he cannot see the doctrine of the Scriptures to be as easie seeing it is called m Psal 19.8 Pro. 1.4 a sure law giuing wisedome to the simple and light to the eyes sharpening the wit of the simple and giuing knowledge and discretion to children And Austine saith n Enar. in psa 8. The Scripture is bowed downe to the capacitie of babes and sucklings And Chrysostome affirmeth o Hom. 1. in Mat. They are so easie to vnderstand that the capacitie of euery seruant plow-man widow and boy may reach vnto them p Hom. 3. de Laz. yea the most simple that is of himselfe onely by reading may vnderstand them In which sayings we see as much affirmed of the doctrine of the Scripture as the Iesuite can say is affirmed in the place of Esay concerning the Church and yet possible he will turne him in a narrow roome afore he will yeeld and keepe possession still in his Church-porch against all the pulpits in England that speake for the Scriptures § 27. Secondly I proue the same because when we seeke for the true Church we seeke for it principally for this end that by it as a necessarie and infallible meanes we may heare and learne and perfectly know the true faith in all points which otherwise is in it selfe hidden obscure and vnknowne to vs according to that of S. Paul Animalis homo non percipit ea quae sunt Spiriritus Dei 1. Cor. 2. For as no man by the onely power of nature can attaine this supernaturall knowledge of diuine mysteries which we beleeue by our faith so neither doth the Spirit of God who doth as the principall cause infuse this gift of faith into our soules ordinarily instruct anie man in the knowledge of true faith immediatly by himselfe alone but requireth as a necessary condition the preaching and expounding of matters of faith to be made by the true Church according as S. Paul saith Rom. 10. Quomodo credent ei queÌ„ non audierunt quomodo audient sine praedicante quomodo vero praedicabunt nisi mittantur Therefore the true Church is rather a marke whereby we must know the true faith then contrarie the true faith to know the true Church The Answer 1 This is the second argument and is concluded in this Syllogisme That is no marke or meanes to know the Church by which it self is vnknowne to vs till the Church teach it and is learned by the meanes and ministery of the Church But such is the true faith that we cannot know it til the Church teach it vs and it selfe is learned by the meanes and ministerie of the Church for God instructeth no man immediatly but by the preaching of the Church as Saint Paul saith Rom. 10. Therefore the true faith is not a sufficient marke to finde the Church by For answer to this argument it will easily be granted that the ministery of the Church is the ordinary meanes whereby we learne the faith of Christ and that no man of himselfe can attaine to the knowledge thereof but as the Church teacheth him This I say is granted so it be well vnderstood For the spirit of God in the Scripture is the principall schoolemaster from whom all truth cometh and which openeth the heart to beleeue and the Church is it which by her ministery holdeth this truth before vs and therefore except in some extraordinary cases the preaching thereof is required as a necessary condition as the text of Saint Paul speaketh 2 But hence it followeth not that therefore the Church is rather a marke of the faith then the faith a marke of the Church for these two the true Church and the true faith are like relatiues inseparably vnited together by a
be more edified they want therefore this fruit Thirdly touching Latin Seruice Thomas Aquine and Cardinall Caietan u in 1. Cor. 14 hold it is better for the edification of the Church to be in the vulgar tongue Fourthly touching the power of Priesthood to remit sinne x 4. d 18. §. Non autem the Master of Sentences and y Fr. Victor relect 1. de potes Eccl. sect 3. others with him hold that onely God forgiueth sinne and the Priest bindeth and looseth onely by declaring them to be bound or loosed himself working no spirituall effect Fiftly touching shrift z De poenit d 5 in poenit gloss Panot ibid. the Canon Lawyers say it was not ordained by Christ but taken vp by an institution of the Church and Michael Bononiensis a Expos in Ps 29. saith It is not needfull for our iustification or the pardon of our sinne and Caietan b 3. Tho. q. 80. art 4. holdeth A man by contrition without any confession is made clean a formall member of the Church 6. Touching iustificatioÌ„ by our own righteousnesse Th Aquin c In Gal. 3. lect 4. saith No workes either ceremoniall or morall are the cause why any man is iust before God For works are not the cause that man is iust but the execution and manifestation of his righteousnesse because no man is iustified with God by his works but by the habite of faith infused And againe d In Rom. 3. lect 4 1. Tim. 1 lect 3. he saith The Apostle sheweth iustification to be wrought by faith onlie there is in the workes of the Law no hope of iustification but by faith onely Seuenthly touching the imputation of Christs holinesse for our iustification and the apprehesion thereof by faith Pighius e Bell. de grat l. 1. c. 3. de iustific l. 2 c. 1. holdeth that there is in vs no inherent righteousnesse whereby we may be iustified but f Controu Ratispon contr 2. pag. 47. edit Paris 1549. that we are iustified in Christ not by our owne but by the righteousnesse of God and Christ interposing his iustice betweene his Fathers iudgement and our iniustice so we present our selues boldly before Gods tribunall not onely seeming but also being iust and the reason why our righteousnesse is placed in the obedience of Christ is because we being incorporate into him * Nobis illi incorporatis acsi nostra esset accepta ea fertuâ— ita vt ea ipsa etiam nos iusti habeantur it is imputed to vs and by the same we are accounted iust And the Diuines of Collen g Antididagm Colon. pag. 29. A booke written by Gropper of whom the def of the Cens saith he was the rare man of our age See his commondations in Sur. comment An. 1547. p. 424. say We are iustified by faith as by the apprehending cause such a faith as without all doubting assureth vs of the pardon of our sinnes through Christ whereof notwithstanding it behooueth vs to be assured by the testimony of the holy Ghost through faith and after the same manner we are iustified of God by a twofold iustice as it were by formall and essentiall causes whereof the first is the perfect iustice of Christ not as it is without vs abiding in him but as the same being apprehended by faith is imputed to vs. This righteousnesse of Christ thus imputed to vs is the principall cause of our iustification whereon we must chiefly trust and stay our selues Eightly touching the certaintie of a mans owne saluation h Enchirid. Concil Colon. tit de iustif c. noÌ„ habes ergo the same Diuines of Collen write thus We confesse the truth is that to a mans iustifiâ—ation it is required that he certainly beleeue not onely in generall that they which truly repent haue their sinnes forgiuen by Christ but that his owne selfe also hath forgiuenesse through Christ by faith i Innoc. Gentill exam Con. Trid. The same was also preached openly by Marinarius a Frier at the Trent Councell Ninthly touching merits k De iustif l. 5. c. 7. idem Waldenâ— tom 3. de Sacra c. 7. Bellarmine saith In regard of the vncertaintie of our owne righteousnesse and because of the danger of vaine glory the safest way is to put our confidence in the sole mercy and goodnesse of God 10. Touching the sacrifice of the Masse Cornelius Mus l Sixt. Senen bâ—blioth sanct lib 4. a Bishop so famous for his learning that he was a Preacher at twelue yeares old and all Italie ran after him defended m Fr. Sua. tom 3. d. 74. s 2. that Christ at his last supper offered no sacrifice at all 11. Touching the Apocrypha it is cleare n Lyra Hugo Caâ—et Sigonius and others that many deny them to be canonicall Scripture 12. Touching the communion vnder one kinde Ouandus o 4. d 9. Pro. 6. saith It were better to allow the cup to the people then to deny it and lesse hurt would grow by yeelding then by detaining it 13. Touching mariage p 4. d. 26 q 3. quem refert Ioh. Capreol ibid. Durand held it was no sacrament and Canus q Loc. l. 8. c. 5. saith it is none vnlesse the Priest by solemne words of the Church do it And r Tolet. Sum. cas l. 7 c. 21. that which some Papists call heresie that the innocent party may lawfully marrie againe after diuorce is affirmed by Å¿ Comment in 19. Mat. Caietan and t Annot in Caiet l. 5. Catharinus 14. Touching freewill Ariminensis u In 2 d. 26 p. 103. denyeth that a man can will any thing that is good by nature without the special helpe of Gods grace and Alphonsus x Lib. 9. verbo Libert holdeth our wil is free from constraint but not from necessitie 15. Touching the descention of Christ into hell y In 3. d 22. q 3 Durand and z Apol. qu. 1. Picus Mirandula deny it affirming that he descended not properly and in substance but onely by effect in that without any locall motion the power of his death reached thither By these few examples you may coniecture how well they agree that thus are diuided about the principal articles of their faith and nothing can be so generally or certainly receiued but some or other among them deny it 21 And to manifest this contention yet a little more you shal see what a number of opinions they haue among theÌ„ concerning any question which themselues moue in Diuinitie For example whereas in the Sacrament they thinke the substance of bread and wine passe away the formes or accidents onely remaining the question is in what subiect or substance these accidents abide Some say they remaine separated without any subiect this is the opinion of Occham Biel Cameracensis Maior and the Nominals Some that they obtain a way wherby to exist of themselues this is the opinion of
according to the spirit Neither when we say faith onely do we thinke that the faith whereby we are iustified is alone and without loue and works any more then he that saith the heate onely of the fire burneth meaneth thereby that the heate is without light but we hold that iustifying faith is alway accompanied with workes as the Sunne is with his light and trees with their fruite and causes with their effects though the workes themselues iustifie not but being the effects of iustification haue their proper vse to sanctifie vs which is a condition in his due time and order necessarily required to saue vs as well as iustification because as I said God bringeth no man to glory by iustifying him alone but by sanctifying him also for whom he electeth them he calleth and iustifieth and sanctifieth both 41 And this is it we meane by saying our sinnes are not imputed or we are iustified by faith onely whereat as often as our aduersaries wonder they should be put in mind of that which Erasmus told them long since This word Only which now adayes they shout at so in Luther is reuerently heard and read in the writings of the Fathers For Saint Ambrose t Comment 1. Cor. 1. saith This is the worke of God that he which beleeueth in Christ should be saued WITHOVT WORKES FREELY BY GRACE ONELY receiuing the pardon of his sinnes Chrysostome u Hom. 7. Rom. 3. saith But what is the law of faith Euen to be saued by grace here the Apostle sheweth the goodnesse of God who not onely saueth vs but also iustifieth and glorifieth vs vsing no workes hereunto but requiring FAITH ONELY Basil x Hom. de humil saith This is true and perfect reioycing in God when a man is not lifted vp with his owne righteousnesse but knoweth himselfe to be void of true righteousnesse and to be iustified by FAITH ONELY in Christ Comment 2. Eph. Theodoret y saith We haue not beleeued of our owne accord but being called we came and being come he exacteth not puritie and innocencie of life at our hands but by FAITH ONELY he forgaue our sinnes Bernard z Cant. ser 22. saith Whosoeuer is touched with his sinnes and hungreth after righteousnesse let him beleeue in God that iustifieth sinners and being iustified by FAITH ONELY he shall haue peace with God Thus the Fathers in their time spake according to a Rom. 3.28 4 5. Gal. 2.16 the Scriptures whereupon we ground our selues whose words can no way be so wrested but they will yeeld our very opinion and plainly shew that in this point they held the same thing that we do 42 And out of all question our aduersaries themselues in times past haue thought it the truth For Aquinas hath left b Rom. 3. lect 4. Gal. 3. lect 4. written that workes be not the cause why a man is iust before God but rather they are the execution and manifestation of his iustice for no man is iustified by workes but by the HABIT OF FAITH infused yea IVSTIFICATION IS DONE BY FAITH ONLY And c Iac. 2. the ordinary Glosse Abraham was not iustified by the workes he did but by FAITH ONELY his oblation being a worke of his faith and a testimonie of his righteousnesse But Gropper with the Diuines of Colen d Antididagm pag. 29. speake more fully that By the faith of Gods word working in vs contrition and repentance and other workes of preuenting grace we are iustified as by a certaine preparatiue and disposing cause but by faith whereby without doubt we firmly beleeue our sins to be forgiuen for Christ we are IVSTIFIED AS BY THE APPREHENDING CAVSE So God iustifieth vs by a double righteousnesse as by formall and essentiall causes whereof one and the chiefe is the perfect righteousnes of Christ not as it is out of vs in him but as and when the same being apprehended by faith is imputed to vs for righteousnesse And this imputed iustice of Christ is the chiefe and speciall cause of our iustification whereunto we are principally to rely and trust 43 And thus we see the Protestants doctrine of onely faith and the not imputing our sinnes vnto vs was thought sound diuinitie among our aduersaries themselues till within these threescore yeares that the Trent Councell began to looke asquint at it which was no maruel for it is an ordinary thing that a man marrying a latter wife looketh strangely on his owne children had by a former yea giueth his land from them to their yonger brethren though once the time were when he was of another mind And so no wonder if the Church of Rome now begin to turne away her louing countenance from her former faith when she hath about her so many brats of latter opinions begotten by the Friers and Iesuites her new louers that would haue no nay Otherwise faith onely is a doctrine that might haue inherited her mothers lands euen this day in Rome had she not in her widowhood played the wanton And yet seeing in auncient times it was holden in the dayes of the Church of Romes first husband our aduersaries for reuerence of their schooles and credit of the Doctors should handle the matter as gently as might be and not so intemperatly reuile their mothers elder sonne calling it as this Iesuit doth a doctrine drawing men to leudnesse or as e Rom. 3.22 the Rhemists do a new no-iustice a fantasticall apprehension nor as f Whright art 9. another doth a Solifidian portion nor as g Apolog. ep sect 8. another doth a desolation of order a doctrine against a common wealth because such foule words as these will touch the Scripture it selfe and all the ancient Fathers and many Romane Catholickes as well as vs and they that are so lauish of their tongue in vsing them if they take not good heed may chance to haue his hap that threw a stone at a dog and vnawares hit his step-mother Digression 41. Intreating of Predestination and Free-will as the Protestants hold them and shewing that their doctrine concerning these points doth neither make God the author of sinne nor leade men to be carelesse of their liues nor inferre any absolute necessitie constraining vs that we cannot do otherwise then we do 43 In the last place he mentioneth our doctrine touching Predestination and Freewill as if thereby we led men to be carelesse in their actions because as this Iesuit vrgeth it God hauing predestinate all things mans free will is lost thereby that he cannot do otherwise then he doth but God himselfe is the author of sinne Wherein he sheweth his vnsatiable desire of contention and that besides h Pâ—â— 30.15 the graue the barren wombe the earth and the fire which neuer say I haue enough there is a fifth thing as vnsatiable as they the contentious spirit of an aduersarie neuer satisfied with lying and contradiction For let them say directly what is the point they mislike
ministerie thereof may be a condition subordinate for the obtaining of that which is the rule As a Ioh. 4.29.39 the woman of Samaria was a good meanes to bring her countrimen to Christ that knew him not and yet their beleefe was not built on her b ver 42. but on that which she reuealed to them And c Ier. 6.16 God biddeth vs by his Prophet Stand by the wayes and behold and aske for the old way which is the good way though in the meane time the persons to be asked are our direction no further then while they point to the old way And the Prophet biddeth d Hag. 2.12 Aske the Priests concerning the law and saith e Mal. 2.7 The Priests lips should preserue knowledge and they should seeke the law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hoasts yet these Priests many times spake vntruly being deceiued themselues and deceiuing others And so may it happen to the Pastors of the Church 2 All which notwithstanding the Church abideth still the same that Saint Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of truth in that the truth is no where else to be found Which that I may shew the beter it is to be noted that f Iul. Pol. Onomast lib. 8. pag. 454. Scol Aristoph Nub. Rosin antiq Rom. l. 8 c. 2. Alex. ab Alexand. genial dierum l. 6. c. 23. in old time the Gentiles vsed to write their lawes in tables and so hang them vp on pillars of stone that the people might reade them as Proclamations are nailed to posts in market townes and somtime g Phauorin Hesych Lexic verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they whited the pillar and so wrote the lawes vpon it h Lexic decem Rhet. Harpocration saith they reared vp straight pillars of stone and so wrote their lawes vpon them And it was also an ordinary thing that they had other pillars like the Pasquill in Rome i Eustach Il. λ. Suid. verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereupon whosoeuer listed hung their Epigrams or libels that they would haue knowne Now the Apostle describing the Church likeneth it to one of these pillars whose vse was no more but to shew that which hung thereon it selfe not being the law but that whereupon the law was hung For so the true faith written in the tables of the Scripture whereunto the world will giue no testimonie is fastened to the Church as to a stately pillar and strong supporter that there it may be seene and holden out vnto vs. Hence the Iesuite can challenge no more but that the Church is vnto vs a witnesse and vpholder of the faith and alway preserueth it which we denie not but in the meane time he forgetteth that it is one thing to hold out the rule and another to be the rule it selfe and he that saith the Church is the supporter of truth doth not say withall that the Pastors can neuer erre or faile in deliuering any part thereof The Apostle saith the former but the Iesuite onely beside the text affirmeth the latter 3 This exposition must needs be granted for foure reasons first it is called the pillar of truth in no other sence then k Eph. 5.27 elsewhere it is called glorious without spot or blemish or blame but it is certaine that the puritie there mentioned is mingled with some imperfection therefore it is also certain this vpholding of the truth is not free froÌ„ all error Secondly Paul in this place sendeth not Timothy to learne of the Church which he should do if the Iesuits conceit were sound but l vers 14.15 wisheth him to teach the Church out of the Scriptures that so it might be the pillar of truth Thirdly that which the Apostle saith in these words is true of euery particular Church but of euery particular church it is not true that it caÌ„not erre for we see they may as did m Act. 20.30 Apoc. 2.4 this of Ephesus concerning which the Apostle saith here it is the pillar and ground of truth Fourthly if this place proue that the Church cannot erre in any thing but of it all men must learne the infallible truth then seeing o Bellar. de verbo Dei l. 3. c. 5. Greg. de ValeÌ„t coÌ„ment Theo. tom 3. disp 1. q. 1. assert 3. the Papists hold their Prelates and Pastors to be the Church I demand what is that which must teach them for the Church doth not seeing they are the Church themselues 4 Or if the Iesuite dote vpon his owne exposition then let him cal to mind how other Papists haue expounded before him p Staphyl Apol. part 1. Sâ—apl his translat pag 50. who say The Apostle calleth the Church the pillar and ground of truth signifying by the word ground the largenesse of Christendome by the word pillar the continuall smooth and not interrupted succession of the Apostles and their schollers vpon whoÌ„ all truth is builded Which exposition differing from this of the Iesuites may giue him occasion to looke better into the text and at least mistrust his collections therfrom till he haue conferred with his fellowes For vpon the reckoning it will fall out that vntill the Friers and Iesuites of late began to hammer the Scriptures there was neuer any that out of them would deliuer his conclusion but the contrary The Apostles writings are the pillars and supporters of our faith saith q Lib. 3. c. 1. Irenaeus The Gospell is the gound and stay of the Church saith r Lib. 3 c. 11. the same Irenaeus The truth is the pillar and ground of the Church saith Å¿ Hom. in hunc loc Chrysostome The diuine Scriptures must teach who hath the true Church These are the proofes these are the foundations these are the grounds of our cause saith t De vnit Eccl. cap. 16. Austin 5 The words of Austin alledged by the Iesuite are good but they had bene better if he had not left out the beginning for thus they lie u Contra. Crescon gram lib. 1. cap. 33. For somuch as the holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs let him who feareth lest the obscuritie of this question concerning the baptisme of the Donatists should deceiue him enquire that Churches iudgment of it which the holy Scripture without all doubtfulnes doth demoÌ„strate Wherin Aust saith not the church is the rule or the Church cannot erre but onely as the Iesuite himselfe noteth that the iudgement therof should be inquired His meaning is that in the question of rebaptizing because in Cresconius his suppositioÌ„ the Scripture said nothing of it such as were doubtful might ask the iudgmeÌ„t of the true Church there they should learn Cresconius to be in an error Wherein the Iesuit shal find vs to consent with Austin for doth he think we allow not the Church her ministery or that we silence her from bearing witnesse to the truth or that we turne away the people
appeareth by d Ep. 109. lib. 7. the epistle of Gregorie to Serenus and e De inuent l. 6 c. 13. Polydore a Papist confesseth All the Fathers condemned the worship of Images for feare of idolatry Afterward the second Nicene councel brought in the worship also f Act. 7. decreeing notwithstanding that no image should be adored with Latria diuine honour but at the last g Part. 3. q. 25. art 3 4. Thomas of Aquin h Ses 25. and the Trent Councel i Fr. Suar tvm. 1 disp 54 sect 4. Vazqu de adorat l. 2. c. 4. expouÌ„ded so by the Iesuits taught that diuine honor also should be giuen to them Here we see three alterations in one point the bringing of Images in the reuerencing them with ciuill honor the adoring them with diuine worship 14 The fift example shall be in the article of iustification For Thomas k Lect. 4. in Gal. 3. writeth that no workes either ceremoniall or morall are the cause why any man is iust before God For workes are not the cause that man is iust but the execution and manifestation of his iustice because no man is iustified with God by his worke but by the habit of faith infused This doctrine of Thomas is proued to haue bene the faith of the Romane Church in his time by this that he was made a Saint therein and was as l Studiosus impendio pontificum Fr. Vict. rel 1. de potest Eccl. p. 41. they say of him exceedingly deuoted to the Pope yea m Henriquez sum moral proaem the fift Doctor of the Latin Church and the light of all the world who brought all Theologie into a briefe summe c. Yet n Ses 6. the Councell of Trent is varied from this decreeing that mans owne inherent iustice is the formall cause of his iustification and that we are not iustified by faith since which time the learned men of that Church haue left Thomas in the point 15 Many other examples may be giuen of their inconstancy and no doubt they could be content to alter much more if the feare of losing their credit with men did not restraine them as their owne confessions now and then vnawares breaking out from them giue probabilitie We acknowledge freely o Biblioth sanct l. 8. pag 365. saith Sixtus Senensis that there are many faults in our Latine edition of the Bible which yet the Church hath left therein lest the faithfull whose eares haue alwayes from their infancie bene inured thereunto should now be offended with the noueltie of an exact correction And concerning the Communion vnder one kind p Fr. Ouand 4. d. 9. prop. 6. one of them saith that All things duely considered it were better to grant the cup then to denie it And touching the adoration of Images with diuine worship q Bel. de Imag. li. 2. c. 22. Sâ—ar to 1. disp 54. sect 4. the learnedst among them that euen themselues hold it yet thinke it not fit to be vttered in common talke or sermons before the people but rather the contrary that they ought not so to be worshipped And whereas to take away the odiousnes of this opinion that yeeldeth the honor of God to an Image r Cathar lib. de Imagin ador concl 6. 7. Peres de tradit part 3. some would haue them worshipped with a worship inferiour to that which is giuen to the first Samplar and Å¿ Holk in Sap. lect 157. Durand 3. d. 9. q. 2. Picus Mirand apol q. 3. some would haue no worship at all giuen to them but onely men should vse them to stirre themselues vp to the worship of the Samplar by kneeling before them this is misliked by othersome t Vazq de adorat l. 2. nu 415. who thinke it could be propounded to the people with small fruite yea it were foolishnesse to speake it So that we see the learned in the Church of Rome can hold nothing so absolute but some of their fellowes vary from it and what is propounded therein as matter to beleeue and practise is misliked among themselues the most being readie to receiue alteration in some points or other whensoeuer occasion should bring it in Digression 24. Touching the contentions among the learned of the Church of Rome and how the Papists liue not in that vnitie that is pretended 16 They which know Rome and Papistry are sufficiently satisfied in this matter onely some ignorant persons whom the cunning handling of such as this Iesuite is hath got into their possession will beleeue no discord to be among them But were we all so blind that we could see none of this contention yet their noyse outcries in schooles Councels pulpits and consistories one against another would make vs heare it the clamors of the conteÌ„ders resouÌ„ding in our eares no lesse then the noyse of two armies when they ioyne battell or as the old philosophers of whom u Lucian in Timon one saith merrily that with the noyse of their disputations they so filled the eares of Iupiter and made him deafe that he could not heare their praiers In whose roome x Schol. in Lud. Senec. de morte Claud. §. Facilius inter Philoso saith Rhenanus himself a Papist haue succeeded a Gods name Scotus Aquinas Egidius Romanus and others whose contentions are no lesse then that which was among the Philosophers that herein they may seeme aboue all things to resemble the old Academicks Stoicks and Peripateticks For first y See Auentin anal Boio l. 6. pag. 407. they haue the families of the schoolmen wherin euery one professeth his particular sect-maister Thomas Scot Occham or Durand where both masters and scholers haue spent their life and writings in nothing else but opposition against each other that it is truly spoken of them THERE IS NOTHING DISPVTED OR AFFIRMED BY ANY ONE OF THEM WHICH IS NOT GAINSAID BY ANOTHER Thus the Dominican and Franciscan Friers spent with their partakers whole ages in quarelling about the conception of the virgin Marie and thus the moderne Doctors of this time contend about euery thing depending in controuersie betweene them and vs hauing no certaintie among theÌ„selues what they may say against vs so far forth that I * An offer made to the Papists for the triall of the questions betweene vs. offer to make demoÌ„stration hauing done it partly already throughout this treatise against any that will deny it That there is no one point denyed or affirmed against vs wherein they vary not among themselues and if any Papist will alledge or set downe what he thinketh is the truth in any question or exposition of Scripture controuerted betweene vs I will name him againe a learned Papist either old or new that saith the contrary which is enough to show they haue no vnitie 17 This may also be confirmed by their writing one against another z His sermons printed with the booke of his answer to