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A56660 A friendly debate betwixt two neighbours, the one a conformist, the other a non-conformist about several weighty matters / published for the benefit of this city, by a lover of it, and of pure religion.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679. 1668 (1668) Wing P798; ESTC R41393 117,976 250

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same time that this was only commanded concerning that Countrey and that there is no proof can be made that there were any innocent Books there imploy'd in their Idol-worship No we conclude rather all were Superstitious and Idolatrous in themselves and such as could never be imployed in Divine Service It is true at last he comes to remember us that in the New Testament we read the Christian Converts burnt their Curious Books Act. 19.19 But what is this to the Precepts he promised to shew us given to the Israelites And what is this to the business of Prayer-Books Nay why did he not shew us the Innocence of these Books and prove that Conjuring was a very harmless Art N. C. I wish you would have done with this Book of his which I think in one sense is innocent enough and will do no harm among considering people C. I am content to make an end for I fear I have been too tedious But it was out of a desire to examine seriously whether there were such force as he conceives in this Engine to batter down all the Fortifications that they who preside in the Church or their Assistants can erect in defence of the abused Scandalous things as he calls them which with so much zeal we contend for viz. the Liturgy and Ceremonies They are his words in his Epistle N. C. He tells you a little after that he will not offer to impose his belief on others Let every body read and then do as he finds cause C. I commend his Ingenuity and Modesty only I wish his Zeal was a little less in this matter and that he would not think himself and others ingag'd to endeavour to the utmost of their power the Extirpation and abolishing of the Liturgy For what is this but to impose his belief upon us as much as he is able in his place Doth he only offer his Reasons who solicites and perswades and intreats men to promote his Design Doth he leave others to judge who ingages their Affections and stirs up their Passions as if the Cause were already decided according to his mind This it is to be zealous to advance a private Opinion He meant it 's like as he spoke when he told us in his Epistle that he expected and desired 〈◊〉 more but that we would candidly weigh th● case but his zeal made him forget himself and earnestly beseech us to be up and doing as if judgment were already given on his side This I make no doubt was the thing that put him so much beside the Cushion as to make him magnifie the Purity of those Doctrines which in sober thoughts he saw were of pernicious consequence And I would willingly think it was nothing else that made him only pass his word that the Liturgy is one of the things that God would have laid aside without any Proof of it For whatsoever he or the Assembly have been pleased to say no body ever made an Idol of it or were guilty of adoring it These are but a kind of Conjuring Phrases and Magical words which make a great Sound and astonish the silly people but signifie nothing save only this that men care not what they say to serve their cause And therefore I hope you will not be afrighted by such Bug-bears but come and do your Duty to God and man both together in joyning with us in Common-Prayer N. C. I will consider it as I have told you more than once But I have had the less mind to come to it because after it is done your Minister prays so coldly himself C. That is he doth not put himself into a Sweat But are not his words lively and apt to warm the Hearts of those who attend to them N. C. Methinks not And beside his Sermons that follow are very dull and nothing comparable to ours C. Now you are got again to the Hole from whence I did drive you a good while agoe you run in a Circle of discourse and are returned thither where we first began But since I have followed your motions thus far I will ask you this question Why do you not rather think your self dull than him N. C. Because I am not dull in other places and yet was so at your Church C. You may be in the fault for all that For perhaps you was disaffected to his Person or to his method of handling things or you had a greater Kindness for some other and then though S. Paul himself should preach you would be apt to prefer that man before him N. C. No methinks his matter is dull and flat C. Why what did you hear him treat of N. C. I heard him preach about the necessity of Obedience to the Laws of Christ And there he told us how we must do as we would be done unto and love our Neighbours as our selves and forgive Injuries and make Restitution of ill-gotten Goods with a great many other such like things which every body knows already And yet he spent I know not well how many Sermons about these common matters C. Does every body know these things say you The greater shame then that they live not according to them I am afraid they are not sensible of the necessity of these things about which a man of any understanding and seriousness cannot well speak and be flat and dull I much suspect that you even set your self to sleep or suffered your thoughts to run to other matter or fell a reading in your Bible as I have seen some do when he begun to treat of such Arguments as these thinking that you was little concern'd in them N. C. I must confess part of what you say For when I come to Church I look not for Moral but Christian Doctrines C. How now Do you oppose Morality and Christianity Is not the former a part of the latter I mean doth not the Christian Religion teach us the highest Morality N. C. No I think it doth not meddle with it C. Then you talk of this as you do of many other things without understanding Pray what is Moral Doctrine N. C. Do you tell me if you please C. I always took it to be that Doctrine which teaches us how to regulate our manners that is to order and govern our actions or our whole Behaviour in this World Now I appeal to any man that reads the Gospel whether this be not the very design of it to teach us to live soberly righteously and godlily N. C. Is this morality C. Yes that it is And therefore I said that Christian Religion advances Morality to the greatest height because it gives us the best and most excellent Motives to live soberly righteously charitably and piously in this World N. C. For all this I think it were better if Jesus Christ were more preached C. Still I see you deceive your self and trouble the world with Phrases Doth not he preach Jesus Christ that preaches his Doctrine If you doubt of it you shall