Properly in them selves Accidentally they may be when they growe so strong that they paine and grieve the Soule These 2. later kinds of the Soules Suffering you acknowledg to have ben in Christ the 1. kinde you vtterly deny â—â—g 5. 6. 16 〈◊〉 253. â— 255. 335 Now I affirme that Christ tasted also the 1st kinde For how could the Proper and principall Humane Suffering be not in him â—â—â—br 2.10 a Man made of God to * Suffer for all our Sinnes So this in a maner is the point of our CoÌ„troversie And verily how you can deny the same by the Scripture yet acknowledging withall a true and perfit Humaine Soule in Christ I cannot see Namely seeing iust occasion heereof was giuen him from God as afterward shall further appeare You * pa. 248. seeme to sticke at those termes which I vse The Soules proper and immediat suffering you call them “ pa. 257. 336. vnsalted and vnsetled But any may see how easy they are to bee vnderstood and also that wee must in this quaestion necessarily thus distinguish the same from that which is by sympathy is comon to vs with other creatures Thirdly wee must also note that God himselfe is alwayes and evermore the principall and proper punisher then when the Soule suffereth paines after the first maner that is in her proper and immediat faculty of suffering And that is alwayes immediatly for sinne also not for any other cause at all Gods owne almighty power armed with iustice in burning wrath thus punisheth sinne somtime more somtime lesse when and how it pleaseth him Fourthly God himself therfore was thus the principall and only proper Punisher of Christ as hee sustayned the punishment of our sinnes The Divells and wicked men his Persecutours did their parts also indeed for other ends but yet they were all as Instruments only vsed by God vnto his owne end namely that Christ might pay heereby a iust price and full satisfaction for our sinnes It was then the Almighty and most iust God himselfe in his severe wrath against our sin that principally properly inflicted on Christ the paines and punishments which he as our Surety suffered for the paying of our Ransom As it is written “ Isa 53. â— The Lord laid vpon him the punishment of vs all Whatsoever you have against this afterward we shall consider it in due place Fiftly we meane not that in God was is or can be any †As youâ— serve wâ— pag. 24â— perturbatioÌ„ at all and therefore consequently no Wrath nor Hatred as is in vs. But because Wee painfully afflict others with whom commonly wee are Angry and we discerne somtime and see paines inflicted on men by God therefore we say he sheweth his anger and wrath vpon them whom hee punisheth Nevertheles wee must note especially that to suffer as the Godly doe Chastisements and corrections is not to suffer or feele Gods Wrath nor indeed the pumishment of sinne except it bee in a very vnproper speach To suffer the true punishment satisfaction proper payment wages of sinne only that is to suffer properly and truly the Wrath and Curse of God Now then seeing the paines which Christ for vs did feele were indeed properly the Punishment and Paiment and vengeance for sinn such as the Godly do in no wise suffer Christ only having wholly suffered that for vs all Therefore indeed his sufferings proceeded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods meere Iustice bent to take recompence on him for out offences the Godly never suffering any thing at all in such respect Sixt These paines which Christ suffered as the proper Punishment and Price of sinne and inflicted on him even by Gods own hand did not make smart and anguish only in his flesh or onely in the sensitive part of the Soule by mutuall coniuction sympathy with the body but of necessity must also be deepely conceaved felt in the vnderstanding and Mind of Christ Now how deepe this was as we neither do nor can precisely affirme so we are well assured that the sense of paine was not lessened nor abated in Christ needlesly Hee suffered doubtles according as sinne deserved in every point except only in such respects as were flatly impossible For the better vnderstanding whereof wee are heere to note another principalll distinction â—â—â—fering of â—aines for sin 〈◊〉 fold â—or sinne inâ—â—eâ—ent and â—â—puted that there are 3. divers and severall sortes of suffering paines directly for sinne 1. As the wicked and damned do that is by suffering the proper wrath of God truly punishing in them that is properly in their Soules aswell as in their Bodies their sinnes in whom togeather with their paines there is also inherent sinne abiding and imputed the cause of all their punishments with the the adiuncts and consequents thereof desperation induration blaspheming reiection malediction hatred and finall dereliction with such like These are certain proper and right conditions of the reprobat heere of the damned in Hell â—â—r sinne inâ—â—â—ent but 〈◊〉 imputed which Christ never tasted 2. The godly in this world do suffer paines for their sinnes But these whatsoever they be yea though death it selfe are improperly called Punishments as was before noted â—â—ch 12.5 â— 7 8 9 10 â— they are * Chastisements of sinne Yea they are partly remembrances to cause repentance of sinne past presently inherent partly Chastisements to humble vs and to mortifie sinne in vs more and more hereafter And thus they are in no sort inflicted on vs as very Curses by Gods Wrath and Iustice properly so called but properly by Gods Holynes and Love as after wee shall further see These are the ordinary wayes of suffering for sinne but nothing appertayning to Christ neither 3. 3 Suffering sinne not haerent yet impuâ—â—â— There is another peculiar and extraordinary way belonging onely to Christ according to which Christ suffered for sinne distinct and greatly differing from both the former and yet in some speciall points agreeing with both 1. Christ suffered for sinne being sinles indeed How Châ—st sufferings those of thâ— Godly dâ—gree Hoâ— they diffeâ—â— as the Godly also are sinles “ Rom. 4. by imputation Againe their sufferings are temporary and in this life only such also were his But Christes sufferings were exceeding much differing from ours 1 in that his sufferings were for our sinnes now made his by Gods accoumpt and ours are for our owne Also his were the true and proper Punishment or iust vengeance of God for sinne ours onely Chastisements and remembrances which belonged nothing at all to him His the true effects of Gods severe and iust Wrath properly taken ours are from his iustice wrath improperly so called Touching the Reprobats and damned How the sufâ—â—rings of Châ—â—â—â— and of thâ—â— Damned 〈◊〉 differ 1. their sufferings are for sinnes inhaerent Christes were for sinnes only imputed So that Gods Anger
hath no shape of any reason in it It proveth that Christ surely had very great pity and commiseration of them but nothing els in the worlde Besides Christ might have far greater pity of them then Moses or Paul had and yet hee was able to cary his affection far more patiently and quietly then they were able which would rather keepe him from such an outwarde distemper as was even in them Also Christ knew exactly Gods Counsell and purpose for their reiectioÌ„ which those holy men were not so particularly sure of Wherfore Christ might better stay the vehemency breaking out of this affection which in such a case must needs tend against the knowen will of God In those holy men it might better break foorth very strongly as it did seeing they knewe not particularly Gods decree heerein so as Christ knew Lastly those holy men it seemeth having their thoughtes wholly defixed on their vehement pity towardes the Iewes earnestly and constantly wished that the Cup of Gods eternall wrath might come vpoÌ„ them selves that the Iewes who deserved it â—pecially â—ul who â—â—vâ—edly â—proveth yeâ—â—th Rom. 1. might scape But Christ in his Passion contrariwise desired that the Cup which hee tasted to be too bitter and too violent for him might passe away from him selfe Thus here is no semblance of reason in this for your purpose But against you heere are 4. worthie things to be noted If we consider this first that these most servent desires of these rare men were holy and not sinful Because their thoughts being wholly altogeather for the time defixed on their love to their Brethren in the flesh that they might be saved and that Gods glory might be infinitly more ample if he saved so many hundred thousands which now almost seemed to them as lost then it would be in their own particular salvation onely and thus for the tyme not thinking it seemeth vpon their own immutable Election and Salvation not any thing els saving only that they could desire their brethrens salvation yea though it were with their owne damnation for their sakes if so it might stand with Gods will which no doubt alwayes they implyed though expressed nor thus I take it plaine enough that these sinned not in this their desire and I suppose you take it so too in that you alleage them ground your reason of Comparison vpon them Nowe from hence I observe these 4. notable pointes â—â—â—e 1. That if God Omuipotent and only Soveraigne Lord will he may inflict Damnation and the paines of Hel vpon meere men not for them selves but for others not for their own sins but for the imputed Sinnes of other men much rather then may hee doe thus to Christ whom God sent indeed and ordayned for that purpose â—â—g â—76 Flatly contrary to your Assertion That which there you mention is the ordinary common rule The Soule that sinneth it shall Dy. But in Christ this was eatraordinary and singular that The iust dyed for the vniust 2. Wee see heere that there may be possibly a Death of the Soule a Curse and Separation froÌ„ God which is in it selfe neither Sinne nor conioyned with sinne necessarily but meerely a Suffering of Punishment from God for the sinnes of others imputed 〈◊〉 73.310 Contrarie to you also yea generally every where Third That extraordinarily there is greater love even among meere men then only to dy bodily one for another though vsually and ordinarily a greater can not be found among men which is it that a Ioh. 13 1â— Christ meaneth But how much more the may the love of Christ towards his Elect be farre greater Contrary to b Pa. 107 1â— your assertion Fourth Wee see here that these holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath but onely through an earnest and mighty Compassion of love c Pag. 293. have their mindes drawen so wholly to thinke on this speciall thing above their reach that during the time they turne not themselves to any other cogitation Even as the eye being bent inteÌ„tively to behold any thing for that present discerneth nothing els Whereby it coÌ„meth to passe that these wishes of these holy men ravished with Pity and Zeale are not reckoned sinfull in theÌ„ though they were directly against their owne SalvatioÌ„ which otherwise they knew was immutable with God and certainly reserved for them in Heaven This you d Pag. 293. acknowledge may be in men yet you will not skoffe at them as e Pag. 144. cast into a traunce by it nor reproch them with f Pag. 299. infernall confusion How much lesse ought you so to deale with Christ but specially to acknowledge that his marveylous perplexity may well be a meanes that his suddainwishes against his own constant purpose Gods will were yet no sinnes And that much rather even for this because Christ had infinitly more cause by his Paines theÌ„ felt and feared to be in his minde both more amuzed and also amazed then those men had by their affections Thus far of this As for the g Ambroâ—â—â— leâ—om Aâ— Bâ—de Fathers which h Pag. 19. you cite if they meane as they seeme to do that now at his Passion among other causes of sorrow there waÌ„ted not this even his great Pity towards his forlorn CouÌ„trymeÌ„ theÌ„ we ioyne with them If they meane as you would have them that this was the maine and chiefe cause of his extreame sorrows and amazednes therein I vtterly leave them Howbeit this heere note in them that these Fathers avouch Christ feared not his bodily Death and Passion for thereof only they speake heere questionles You contrariwise say that Christ feared bodily death for thereof also i Pag. 26 〈◊〉 you discourse and had more cause as you thinke so to do then any of his members haue Third touching k Pag. 19 〈◊〉 his regard of his Church generally the same answer serveth as is given to the last point before If you vrge that these Fathers are so resolute for these Causes as their wordes heere pretend then your self abuseth them more theÌ„ ever I did or meane to do â—ag 17. where you say a it is curiosity to examine presumption to determine impossibility to conclude as these doe what was the true cause of Christs Agonie Fourth Pag. 20. b you alleage his inward sorrow and zealous grief for the sinnes of the world to be the maine and chiefe cause of his Agonie Surely even to rehearse these your argumeÌ„ts is refutation of them enough All these are proper parts of his Holines Righteousnes as I have said but no proper partes or causes of his bloudy most dreadfull Agonie that is of his Sacrifice satisfying for sinne Only his * Heb. 2.10 Paines were which then he felt and feared Neither in respect of these your supposed causes could he say Save me froÌ„ this hower nor Let this Cup passe from me as
against vs so consequently yea chiefly against Christ him selfe as our Ransom-payer and Surety in our steed If you meane that thus Christ with SubmissioÌ„ beholding his Father in iudgement at this time was cast into this Agonie it is the verie trueth and the same that we maintayne For this denyeth not but that he had real paines inflicted froÌ„ the Father as from a iust iudge against vs in him who were thus acquitted by him And thus if Aust and others a Pag. 3â— sentences be vnderstood that the Compaint on the Crosse was not Christs in respect of him selfe but in respect of his Church for whom then there he answered before God comming now to execute iudgement for their sinne so they are wel rightly vnderstood otherwise there is no trueth in them namely as you seeme to vse them Second God might be considered now as iudging Satan the prince of this world and overcomming him for vs by the victorie of Christes sufferings which he was nowe about to vndergoe that thus the Divell as b Pag. you note out of c Aug. Austin might be vanquished in our Cause not by Gods absolut and meere power but also by doeing iustice so we deliuered Thus where d Pag. you apply e Ioh. 32. Now even at hand is the iudgement of this world Now eveÌ„ shortly shall the prince of this world be cast out and I if I were lift vp from the earth will draw all men vnto me If you meane it in this sense as you seeme to doe it serveth well But that in this respect as God proceeded against Satan and for this cause Christ should bee cast into these dreadfull scates sorrowes and bloudy Agonies what man of iudgement would imagine What colour of likelihood is there in it Rather this were properly cause of great ioy and triumph indeed as sufficiently I have shewed in my f Ph. 5. former treatise wherevnto you answere not Your testimonies touching g Ioel Heb. Psal men sinfull wherevnto may be adioyned h Lucâ— an other of the like somewhat opening those places make nothing to the purpose at al. For these could not by reason of their Sinnes induce the very presence of Gods Maiesty beeing in anie measure revealed vnto them but Christ in him selfe being free from all sinne could be in no such case No better also is i Isa â— that of the Angells meere Creatures vayling their faces at the glorious presence of God the Creatour of all but Christ the Mediator was not a meere Creature but alwayes personally vnited with a greater power then the Angells were and alwayes sustayned by it vnles only in case of his Iudgement and Passion proceeding vpon him from God as is before noted when purposely the Godhead hid him selfe as it were and withdrew his wonted Comfort that the manhood might be subiect â—o full Punishment for vs as was appointed by God Although even nowe also the Godhead did sustaine his manhood thus being overloaden with paines otherwise it could not a â—efore â— 42 but have ben quite overwhelmed Third Gods Maiestie and iustice may be considered sitting in iudgement meerely against sinfull men If you meane heere against the sinnes of the Elect Christ knew the eternall and sure decree of God which had turned the Cup of vengeance alreadie from them vpon himselfe as being their Suretie so that this commeth to our Assertion as is aforesaid Or touching the Reprobates doe you think that Christ heere so vehemently wished them better whom he knew God hated or that for pity of them he fell into this Agonie and sorrowful prayers First Christ saith a little b 〈◊〉 17. â— before He would not so much as pray for them Yea it is certaine Christ rather would have greatly reioyced to see the due execution of Gods most holy and deserved iustice which is a speciall part of his high glory According to that which is written c 〈◊〉 58.10 The righteous shall reioyce when he seeth the vengeance he shal wash his feet in the bloud of the wicked And men shall say verily there is fruit for the righteous doubtles there is a God that iudgeth the earth Againe if Christes mournfull prayers were to wish better to the Reprobat how can that stand where he saith Let this Cup passe from me he should have saide from them Neither this also might he say from them as knowing perfectly his Fathers and his owne will directly to the contrary Your next supposed Cause d 290. Compassion towards men coÌ„tayneth 3. severall causes e 18.19 heere 1. for the Reiection of the Iewes 2. for the Dispersion of his Church 3. His zealous griefe generally for the sins of the world All these I grant were alwayes in Christ and caused no doubt alwayes heavines in him yet no more then a godly and heavenly minde could and would cheerefully digest and beare Wherefore you strangely deceave your selfe if you thinke that these any or all of them did so far exceede in him as to procure his most dreadfull and bloudy Agonie For the Reiection of the Iewes what reasons bring you a Luke 〈◊〉 Christ wept over their City Ergo Now at his Passion he was driven into his dreadfull Agonie for this cause and that rather now then when hee so wept expresly for them I deny this argument how will you doe to prove it I b Treat 〈◊〉 pa. 6. â—7 have shewed from hence the contrary wherevnto nothing is answered that seeing when a little before hee throughly intended expressed his affection about that matter yet therby he fell into no such Agonie but only wept and mourned for them therefore now in his Passion where he speaketh not a worde of them it is strange to say that his Pity of his CouÌ„try men the Iewes should drive him to sweat bloud and thrice to pray with teares and strong cryes that this Cup of grief might passe from him and thrice to yeeld him selfe againe to Gods will saying Not my will but thy will be done This verily cannot stand with any reason Again that his expresse Compassion towardes the Iewes a little c Luk. 19. Mat. 24. before he prepared him to his Passion plainly sheweth that now in the Garden and so still forward he gave him selfe wholy to other thoughtes matters Namely such as coÌ„cerned his great work in hand that is to be are the Paines which now chiefly he was to suffer for mans redemption at Gods hands Wherefore this work of Christ at this time performed and wrought by him Note is by a proper and peculiar Name iustly called his Passion not not his Compassion Againe you say For their sakes Moses desired to be wiped out of Gods booke and Paul could have wished him selfe to bee separated from Christ for his brethren the Israelites Ergo Christ at his Passion was cast into that strange Agonie for the griefe of their reiection This also
A DEFENCE OF A TREATISE TOVCHING THE SVFFERINGS AND VICTORIE OF CHRIST IN THE WORKE OF OVR REDEMPTION Wherein is confirmed 1 That Christ suffered for vs not only Bodily griefe but also in his Soule an impression of the proper wrath of God which may be called the paines of Hell 2 That after his death on the Crosse he went not downe into Hell For Answere to the late writings of Mr Bilson L. Bishop of Winchester which he intitleth The effect of certaine sermons c. Wherein he striueth mightily against the doctrine aforesaid By HENRY IACOB Minister of the worde of God Iohn 7. ver 24. Iudge not according to the appearance but iudge righteous iudgement 1600. To all the godly and religious Magistrates faithfull Pastors and other Christian brethren in England Grace and peace be multiplied in the true sufferinges and victorie of IESVS CHRIST our onely and most glorious Redeemer GIVE me leaue I beseech you Fathers and Brethren right honorable beloved in Christ in so great and necessary a case to reply and Defend my selfe in such wise as becommeth me against the vnseemely writings of a mā who indeed I aknowledg in the world is far greater then I am Yet forasmuch as the Cause which heere I maintaine is right and iust as to any man I hope it shall soone appeare that will simply and soberly trie it by the Scriptures Againe in regard of mine owne person and poore credit although meane in the world yet by Gods mercie such as in conscience I am bound by all honest and Christian meanes to preserue seeing he so strangelie traduceth accuseth me in his booke as is almost incredible I am therfore of necessitie as I take it to open my mouth at this time and specially in the behalfe of that doctrine which I am vndoubtly perswaded for the substance of it that hither vnto I with infinit mo in England haue truly faithfully taught And albeit I finde my selfe very vnequall to try any question with him who is so high in authoritie so prompt of witt so exquisit in learning my selfe in all things so despised and rejected as I am by him and some others insomuch that I might iustlie be altogeather terrified and wholly turned away were my cause neuer so good frō maintayning the same against him yet surely God is my witnes it seemeth to mee so easy and so plaine to defend togeather with the necessitie of duetie binding me as likewise indeed all mē els I think to stande therevnto that I could not choose but speake againe in this matter and cleere it againe so well as I can from his further weake exceptions and vnsufficient obiections against it Neyther let any man thinke that in thus doing I greatly please my selfe or seeme vnwilling to let others to vtter their iudgments heerevpon Nay surely it is the thing that heerein chiefly I desire even that others yea many others if so it may seeme good vnto thē would declare their mindes touching this new doctrine sprung vp from Winchester and likely to bring a common calamitie with other errors mo vpon our Churches in England because I feare that not a few among vs are wil be troubled therewith And so I doubt not but it will most amply appeare how Holy true a doctrine this is which he so disdainfully skoffeth at and reprocheth beeing well assured that even the most learned and godly Teachers in this land Defendours of the trueth against Poperie as wel before time as now at this day vnder our gracious Queene doe concurre agree with my opinion herein This if it shall please God that I may see it wil far more exceedingly please me to beholde then whatsoever myne owne vnskilfulnes hath or can vtter In the meane while I beseech thee Christian Reader consider duly with thy selfe not who speaketh but what is spoken by eyther of vs. As for me I am not ashamed to testifie with all duetie though after my simplicitie in the behalfe of the Gospell of Christ against mens improbable conjectures which my trust is that the godly and sober minded will take in good worth vprightly even as my heart meaneth it the Lord knoweth sincerely The grace of our Lord Iesus Christ bee with you all Amen H. I. A Praeface to the Christian Readers touching our 2. Questions and their Defense following IT is a iust thing with God deare brethren to punish in his dissolute people sinne with sinne and where one iniquitie is not repented to binde others therevnto Which thing surely we may to well see is com to passe and befallen vs in England deseruedly at this day Who after so long plentifull and comfortable enioying of the Gospell the most precious blessing of God in this life are now allmost generally com to this that we haue lost the loue thereof What remayneth then for vs when we set so light by this Heauenly grace forgetting our first loue which once wee seemed to beare towards it and wherein now wee ought to haue abounded but that God should punish this our hainous and generall sinne with others and among others send vs delusions euen strong delusions to broch beleeue lyes seeing we shew so small affection and so little pleasure in his truth The Lord in iustice then no doubt doth punish vs with such delusions of error as are now so rife in our land at this time more then in times past when as the Gospell hath ben soundlyer preached and better beloued among vs then now it seemeth to bee Now so much the more dangerous this mischief is as also it must needes proue yet still because it is offered vnto vs forsooth by the frendes of the Gospell and fathers of the Church as they desire to be called yet being indeed sole Commanders in Religion very Lords ouer mens cōsciences compulsiuely ouerruling their brethren and Gods deare flocke contrary to the “ Mat and 2 2 Cor. 1. Cor. 1. Pet. expresse Scripture and all well ordred Ancient and present tymes How needfull then is it that the Lords faithfull Remembrancers forget not themselues in these deceiptfull dayes nor that great charge which the great Pastour of the Flock hath layd vpon them but to bee watchfull and diligent and for no respect of persons to suffer any part of the gracious truth of God to bee disgraced by men chiefly that part and point if we can discerne what it is which by the corruption thereof raiseth and maintayneth most of our other vaine corrupt and contentious quaestions which now swarme among vs yet which easily would bee cut cleane downe if the word of God alone might beare sway as we see it to be brought to passe this day by the blessing of God in other Reformed Churches of forraine Countryes For my part being occasioned at this time more specially to speak of 2. of these foresaid corrupt doctrines J am not vnwilling though vnequally yoked to defend the truth in them It hath pleaseth Mr Bilson
yeeld vs an easier passage thorough the rest behind To com then to that which hee first * Pag. 2â— beginneth with where he laboureth very much to shew that hee mistooke not his Text wherevpon first he grounded his doctrine This I say that “ Gal. â— pag. 1. this Text whereon he * Pag. 3 groundeth and setteth downe the doctrine of the wholl meritorious contents of Christes Crosse as likewise of †Pag. 42 those effectes therof which he in his Treatise handleth I am perswaded is mistaken and that this place of Scripture intendeth not these things Gal. 6.12 It is manefest that the Apostle * heere reproveth the false teachers for mingling the pure doctrine of the Gospell because they were loth to taâ—t persecution which then followed the true and sincere professors thereof And so incourageth the godly to beare all Afflictions for this persecuted truth and for Christes sake Thus the Crosse of Christ here signifieth I grant Christ crucified Christ afflicted Christ persecuted not in his owne person only but also in his members Hee doth heere iointly togeather vnderstand by Christs Crosse the afflictions of the whole mysticall Body of Christ both Head and members which they commonly have in the world Which many shunned euen with Shipwracke of sincere Religion but Paul reioyced therein so much as in no worldly ioy like to it For so he meaneth when he saith God forbid that I should reioyce but in the Crosse of Christ not that hee makes it a thing detestable to reioyce in any thing ells Pag 227 as you imagine him to do It is lawfull to reioyce in other things besides the Crosse of Christ but it is not lawfull to reioyce in any worldly ioy so much or we are not to reioyce in comparison of our ioy which we ought to haue in this our shame and afflictions sustained for Christ for his Servants and for the purity of the Gospell Paul had very great cause thus exceedingly to reioyce heerein For 1. this was a token to men that he walked in the perfit way and a meanes also to himselfe so to doe 2. Because this his doing rebuked the corrupters and minglers of the Religion who would sustaine in the world no disgrace which followed the sincere course he thus incouraged also the weake professors to suffer willingly for the same 3. This indeed Crucified the world vnto him and him vnto the world as still it doth vs also These causes are both evident in the text and sufficient for Paul so exceedingly to reioyce in suffering for the pure Gospell Now hee cannot heere respect the meritorious and propitiatory Contents of Christs Crosse and so make it detestable to reioyce in any thing ells as propitiatory besides this suffering heere expressed which is the sense that you give vnto it I say this Paul cannot respect in this Word if hee include his own the Godlies afflictions But it appeareth by that before that indeed he doth include them all the circumstances imediatly following do also declare it 1. That which I touched before By suffering in the world for Christ for his simple truth Church sake the * Which your pâ—â— Text v â— world was Câ—ucified to him and he indeed vnto the world Also an other reason sheweth it †v 15. For in Christ Iesus neither circumcision nor vncircumcision avayle any thing but a new Creature That is a sincere vpright conversation being the fruit of a sincere and pure faith and profession which matter hee nameth a little before “ Gal. 5. Faith working by loue So by this Fruit he incourageth men as I said though there com shame and trouble therewith Also in the next place thus * v 16. And as many as walke according to this rule both of pure profession and conversation peace shal be vpon them c. howsoever in the world they have shame and trouble Lastly †v 17. hee willeth that no good Christian heerafter should put him to busines by seeking resolution of him whether for the pretended peace of the Church vnprofitable Caeremonies should be retayned with the Gospel for lo saith he my example sheweth you all my minde J beare about me the markes of the L. Jesus that is Afflictions for the sincere truths sake which I could by policy and wisdom avoyd aswell as those corrupters of Religion if I had no more care of the sincerity of the Gospell then they have This being thus it cannot be possibly that the Apostle should heere minde to name the particular kindes and all the meritorious partes or Contents of Christs suffering in this place but only hee incourageth men as I said to indure all afflictions for Christ and his truth sake Thus you are answered also in that * Pag. 22 you deny the Crosse of Christ in Scriptures to be taken for the Afflictions of the godly You see the Apostle “ ver 17 heere calleth the Afflictions of the godly the markes of the Lord Iesus also the afflictions of Christ in * Coll. 1. â— another place And in another “ 2 Cor. â— the dying of the Lord Iesus What are these in truth but the Crosse of Christ vnlesse you imagin some mysterie in the divers wordes when apparantly the matter is all one Also the very worde Crosse * Gal. 5.1 a litle before signifieth the Shame and hatred of Christ slaine on the Crosse togâ—ather with the shame of his ServaÌ„ts And thus also “ Pag. 22 your maine obiection is answered where you argue that Paul cannot be vnderstood * ver 12. to say that those false teachers would not suffer persecution for the Afflictions of the godly He may be vnderstood to say that he would not suffer persecution for commending the Afflictions and shame of good Christians for Christes sake which they ought to have done Then what sense or reason wanteth this exposition I knowe the roote and originall of their Hatred and disdaine was against Christ himselfe namely for his ignominious death on the Crosse But this excludeth not indeed it includeth in the Crosse of Christ Christs members the faithfull which are his owne Body and so consequently all their Afflictions for Christes sake Which the wicked and corrupt professors I say wil not commend as Paul did by suffering persecution in their own persons they will not by Suffering win credit and reverence to that way in the world Pa. 229 The Fathers which you bring hereabout overthrow not this sense but iustifie it rather Wherefore you cannot avoyd it yet but that it is still an oversight in you to vnderstand heere by the Crosse of Christ the Contents of his sufferings and to note his wholl and intire Passion in every part thereof as he merited thereby for vs which evidently the Apostle intendeth not neither is he about that in this place You say * Pa. 226 you drew no reason from these words of
acknowledge mine errour Adde heerevnto that experience sheweth as Physitians say how som diseases in the Body bring Death presently after most strong and violent crying namely in som excessiue torments as of the Stone c. Where in through extreeme paines and torments the vitall Spirits being dissipated will bee vtterly extinct somtimes before they can recover and gather againe togeather Thus a man having good strength and force in his Body when such a disease resteth not neere the principall partes of nature originally it seemeth hee may notwithstanding by violence of paine onely giue vp the Ghost at a suddaine yet not miraculously but by the course of nature only Pag 7. Ad Hedib quaest 8. But * Ierom saith this was a great wonder and that therevpon the Centurion confessed truly this man was the Sonne of God I deny not but Christ might shew som strang vnusuall thing apparantlie to the beholders in vttering his last voice when he cryed Father into thy hands I commend my Spirit Which might also very much move the beholders and hearers And yet it shall not follow that Death seazed vpon him not naturally or not by the fayling of natures strength in him I say this may be acknowledged and yet verily there is no necessitie at all to yeeld even this for any thing that the text noteth Yet Ierom sayeth the Centurion was moved with this great wonder It is strange that you should persist to vrge Jerom heerein against the plaine text in another place Mat. 27.54 which saith When the Centurion saw the Earth quake and the thinges that were don he said Truly this was the Sonne of God â—er 51. Heere it is expresly noted that the * Earthquake chiefly with other apparant miracles there mentioned or els the Earthquake with the the iniuries of the Persecutours and the innocency and partience of Christ persecuted compared togeather did move the Centurion to confesse and say Truly this was the Sonne of God Heere it is plaine then that not Christes crying in those tormentes was such a wonder or that the Centurion was by reason thereof moved to acknowledge Christ to be the Sonne of God as Ierom collecteth I know not from what ground but those other sights before said Last of all Austin is brought to prove this matter Pag 8. but with no more strength of reason by the Scripture then the former Neither can his words indeed being granted necessarily conclude any thing for your purpose which as sâ—emeth do shew nothing but Christes voluntary dying and that at his death he â—hewâ—d great power and not infirmity only Who denyeth thâ—se things Thâ—n he proceedeth to shew my disdaine to the Fathers further namâ—ly for such “ pag 2â— insolent reiecting all their opinions touching the causes of Christs Agonie in the Garden and of his complaint on the Crosse These supposed causes are alleaged and amplifiâ—d in the †pag 1â— former parte For answere first I dâ—siâ—e to know whether you allow of all these causes or not you sâ—â—me to â—â—fuse them * pag 13â— heere for heerein you shewed not your owne opinion but â—he iudgments of the Fathers Elswhere “ pag 29 yourselfe are resolute for som of these causes and against other som And yet before * pag 37 All these interpretations you say are sound and stand well with the rules of Christian piety Thus variable you are in that wherein you seeme most resolut Howbâ—it in my minde where you deny these to bee your opinions there you are in the best opinion Neither indeede to tell you plaine can I be of opinion that those their iudgements are true pag â—â— The reasons of my dissenting were touched in †my former Treatise and are maintayned further heereafter as very sufficient and iust How then I pray you do I insolently reiect the Fathers if heerein I dissent from them iustly which even your selfe also doth in sundry of them But my maner of speach is insolent perhaps because I say such collections are absurd and vnlikely I answer these my words are purposely meant of those in these dayes that delight to vaunt of the Fathers and chiefly in their errours For seeing these opinions themselues are vntrue though some of the Fathers inclined after them yet such in our time as vrge them cannot but bee absurd and strang teachers Who having so many helpes and meanes to discerne where the Fathers mistookâ— which they vtterly wanted and we abound with all yet do so littlâ— profit by them that even great Doctours as they desire to bee thought see not so much in the truth of the Gospel as many younger men now peâ—câ—ave and in the Fathers they make themselves so cunning that commonly their sound doctrine they little regard their faults only they admire Such I meant and tooke for absurd gatherers from this Scripture Whom heere I noted by the namâ— of our Contraryes The Fathers I call not so Now that this indâ—ed may be also seene even in your expounding heere Consider first how you wavered and spake coÌ„trarily in these supposed Causes Christs subâ—â—ssion â—â—e lewes reâ—ction â—â—e Churches â—â—spersion 〈◊〉 pa 17 â— â—2 37. Treat 1. â—ag 68. as I noted a litle before Again these agree not with any Ciâ—cumstances of the Passion and so are meerely of Humane coniecture without all Scripture also they agree not togeather among themselves One of them crosseth another one overthroweth another Will you then avouch them as you do to be * all sound and to stand well with the rules of Christian piety Howbeit absolutely I dâ—ny not but that thâ—se or some of these reasons were in Christ at his Passion as namely his Care for his Church his love of his enemies c. For these holy affections hee never wanted all his life long But this rather confuteth then proveth these to bee the very cause or causes that †in the hower of his dreadfull Passion wrought in him such Agonies and consternation of minde â—ag 6. But these things heere I omit beeing heereafter more fully discussed Lastly you cast a needles rebuke vpon me for confounding the Causes of the Agonie and of the Complaint togeather 〈◊〉 230.231 Forsooth that was done not without reason I thinke Every reasonable man I beleeve will say that the same cause was of them both in Christ His Agonie and his Complaint are not so contrary nor so divers but that they might yea verily did proceed from the same cause and ground Yea Ambrose 〈◊〉 20. one of your Authours doeth * plainly ioine theÌ„ both togeather 〈◊〉 231. Yea your selfe doth also as by comparing †your cause of the Agonie 〈◊〉 34. with your 1. or 2. of the ‡ Complaint will appeare You have much cause then have you not to make such outâ—â—yes vpon me that I am strangely amazed confounded and forgetfull in my writing Good wordes I pray you I did but ioyne them togeather whom your selfe
soule properly also For the one standeth with Gods iustice and with the Nature of man in Christ aswell as the other So farre for this Then e you addresse your selfe against another â—ag 289. even one of the chiefest reasons of mine which I make from the straunge and incomparable Agoâ—ies of Christ in the tyme of his Passion These invaded him as we read principally at 3. times 1. in the foretast of his Passion shewed vs in the 12. of Iohn 2. In the Garden a little before his apprehension 3. In his very extreame Passion it selfe on the Crosse The Scriptures f heeretofore I rehearsed at full Treat â— â—ag 49. 50. â—oh 12.27 Mat. 26.39 and 44. Mark 14.33 â—uk 22.44 and 43. Mat. 27.46 â—ebâ—â— 5.7 whence these piteous and vnspeakeable Agonies of his are notified vnto vs. Whereby to all that duely consider it appeareth so cleare as the Sunne at noone day that The paines of his Passionâ— which plainly now he felt and feared because he knew he was to feele them further vnto death were the proper and direct cause of those Agonies But we assume that such straunge and lamentable things and behaviour in Christ were not the effectes only and meerelie of his bodily paines and death or of the feare of them Therefore Christ felt and indured more then his meere bodily paine and death by the testimonie of the Scriptures which thing a Before 14.25.5 you deny In your whole discourse you gainsay * Pag. 17 22. 23. 2â— 34. c. the Proposition that the paines of Christes Passion or the naturall feare of them was the proper and direct cause of those Agonies or that these Scriptures doe imply so much The Assumption you graunt and acknowledge that the meere bodily paines and death of Christ or the feare thereof were not the only nor the proper and direct Cause of these Agonies in him For b Pag. 29â— you are resolved that the cause of Christes Agonie could not proceede but from his Submission to God or Compassion to men or froÌ„ both These you name elswhere a c Pag. 23. â— religious Feare d Pag. 124. 20 21. Devotion and Pietie to God pitie to men c. And thus you resolutely denie my Proposition For you meane it seemeth that Christ suffered paines in his Soule by reason of the strength and zeale of these his Holy Affections and that these were the proper and maine Causes of that his most wofull and miraculous Agonie Complaint Therfore not any extraordinarie Paines inflicted vpon him by way of proper punishment as my Proposition intendeth But this your Assertion I simply denie that Christes Holy Affections his Piety and his Pity were the proper and maine Causes of that his most wofull and miraculous Agonie Complaint And then my Proposition standeth firme that his Paines inflicted on him by way of proper Punishment and Vengeance for sinne were the proper and maine Cause thereof Wherefore let vs try your proofes for it and then mine against it But before we com to them you must know that this your Resolution as you call it is first most vaine also directly contrary to your selfe and then altogeather vntrue and presumed by wide coniecture as God willing presently I shall shew For the first I hartily intreat the Christian Reader to marke wel to consider how your L. doth contrive 3. notable Equivocations in these few wordes Christ suffered in his Soule the wrath of God Notable Sâ—â— phistrie which you e Pa 243 24â— 245. 248. seeme to grant but in truth you do not and if we ad also the paines of Hell then hee opposeth a fourth fallacie against vs. And these 3. or 4. are the only Pillars of his Doctrine For the 3. former your first Equivocation is in this word Christ Suffered and about it wee deale in this place now The common and ordinary phrase of men vnderstandeth heerein His feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of proper punishment and satisfaction for sinne â—t Christes â—fering or â—â—lion is proâ—â—ly which he vndertooke for vs. Only this in the ordinarie and vsuall maner of speach is signified by Christes suffering or his Passion and so doe we alwayes vnderstand by it But you cunninglie take another rare sense of this word as it signifieth the Affections of the Minde in Christ wholly bent to Holines Righteousnes Obedience of God that so he might exactly perfitly keep his iust Law Which 2. partes of Christes Mediation are greatly differing â—â—e before pa. 18. 52. 64. and ought not both in trueth to be called His Passion or Satisfaction for sinne Therefore speake plainly I beseech you and deceave vs not call not this His Soules suffering but his Soules Holines Righteousnes And seeing you meane This was the proper maine cause of Christs Passion Suffering wheÌ„ he wrought his satisfactioÌ„ for sin now at the last end of his life chiefly I simply denie it 〈◊〉 Treat 1. pag. 68. 69. all Reason reclaimeth against it and to that which I alleaged for further reproofe thereof you answere nothing Your next Equivocation is in this See before pag 52. Hee suffered †in Soule your next in Gods wrath Both which I have plainly shewed before As also your 4. Before pa. 49. 19. * Fallacy which may be called Fallacia Accidentis But Sit I hope you will not thinke to beare downe all afore you with nothing but with cunning Before pag. 16. 53. yet vaine deceipt countenanced out with cruell and hatefull wordes Further you are in this your Resolution directly contrary to your owne selfe Before pa. 36. 64. as before I have briefly yet sufficiently shewed Againe where you censure your selfe very sharply for your resolutnes in this cause Pag. 17. * It is curiosity to examine presumption to determine impossibility to conclude certainly what was the true cause therof Thirdly “ Pag. 290. where you make but 2. causes submission to God Compassion to men elswhere but one * Pag. 23. Religious feare But †Pa. 17. c. before you very precisely made 6. If you agree no better w th your self I have small hope that you will agree with vs. Last of al this your resolution making Christs Piety Pity to be the only proper maine Cause of all his wofull Passion is vtterly false and vntrue having no grouÌ„d but meere coniectures But before I vnâ—â— my reasons against your Assertion Your 6. Causes of Chr. Agonie vntrue let vs view all your particulâ—â— Causes see if any one of the can be good †Pag. 18. Your 1. Cause is Sâ—â—mission to the Maiesty of God sitting in iudgemeÌ„t Against whom 〈◊〉 in what cause sate he now in iudgment when Christ was thus astonished Agonized therewith Of necessity it must be one of these three wayes 1. Gods Maiesty great iustice now at this time might sit in iudgement
was not contemptible to God himselfe by your assertioÌ„ It was not therefore that onely but some other death farre more dreadful and intollerable which made Christ man being also God in such wise to tremble and quake In deed Christ had farre greater cause as you say to feare even his bodily death then any of his Members have For it was therefore because death approched vnto him clasped fast with Hell so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with one but he must feele the other And thus he did not contemplate and looke on them a farre of nor had to doe with one more then the other but by suffering one he felt both and by induring one he indured both And thus in deed Christ was left by God to the full naturall sense of his bodily torments But the Godly and the Martyrs deale only with bodily Death the paines of Hell or of Gods wrath they feare not because they know by Christes suffering the same they are abolished removed farre from them Sin staÌ„deth not threatning theÌ„ in the prefence of God as it stood now at this time against Christ our Suertie and Ransom-payer Nay they deale not with Bodily death wholely and naturally for they have Gods comfort with them to mitigate it which Christ nowe felt not Yea they mind not their paines very much for their great hope and ioy presenly following but this was all overclowded in Christ at this instant Therefore he had exceeding great cause to be affrighted and terrifyed to cry out with bitter teares though the godly have cause to triumph sing in Death Thus also you forget * my argumeÌ„t 〈◊〉 1.51 that Christ alwayes charged his Disciples not to take their bodily Death heavily for righteousnes sake Ergo He him selfe would never be so dismayed with the feare of it Heere you have a notable sayinge in the margen whiche must not be forgotten we must preferre Christes suffering before all Martyrs * not for his paines 〈◊〉 26. but for his patience Not for his paines but for his patience A rare distinction If you could make vs believe that the greatest patience is tryed and discerned where the smallest paines are then you said somewhat I know Christes patience was perfit in all his paines both small great and so is not the patience of his servants in their paines neither small nor great But what is this to our purpose We speake not of his inward habit of patience which our faith beleeveth to be in him but of the outward triall and discerning thereof by naturall meanes signes wherevnto it pleased him now to submit his patience after the verie course and operation of Nature Wherefore as Christ had in him indeed farre more patience then we have so it is out of doubt when he came to the chiefest trial thereof in his Passion he would not in any wise as he did shewe lesse in vse then many men doe vnles the trial encouÌ„tring thereof in him were infinitly greater By this also we may see how vaine your next coniecture is that he feared in his Agonie Corporall castigation above his strength 〈◊〉 22.24 For why may not Martyrs and others feare as much cruelty extraordinarie torments at the handes of men as Christ had cause to doe Againe why should the feare of any whatsoever meere bodily paines so overcome his patience as outwardly it seemed at this time Why should he not be able to beare it quietly And principally seeing he knew well enough before what his death should be and that God had vnchangeably appointed it for him Wherefore in no wise ought he so to shunne and shrinke from his meere bodily paines if they were no greater which hee suffered If a Pag. 2 you meane that he felt greater concurring in and with his bodily punishment inflicted by the wrathfull hand of God b Pag. 2 armed with infinit vengeance then you say well and we acknowledge it Your other c Pag. 2. 27. Cause is for that by death his body should want a while the feeling of Gods presence But did not Christ perfitly know that this was Gods decree and certaine appointment yea his owne most free will purpose And shall we imagine that Christ would expreslie pray against that knowen will of his Father yea against his owne Call you this d Pag. 2â— greater perfection in him then was in other men Againe could this thing in any reason be such a horrible griefe vnto him to have his flesh ly dead without paine for a day and a few howers yet his Soule coÌ„tinually living and inioying the coÌ„fort of God and that for such an occasion as to procure thereby the Salvation of mankinde would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for grief and to need an Angell from heaven to comfort him and to pray 3. times vehemently that this Cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinke so Which Cause also if it were true is flatly contrary to your e Pag. 29â— owne resolution But of all these I wonder where you have found anie inkling that any of these may be beleeved to bee the true and effectuall cause of Christes most dreadfull Agonie You say excellent f As be 〈◊〉 have nâ—â— pag. 28. well but by your practise in all matters so farre as I see you never meane to observe it g Epist paâ— in Gods cause let Gods booke teach vs what to beleeve and what to professe h Pag. 91 I love to followe and not to lead the holy Ghost In matters of so great depth I dare not wade without or before my guide Againe i Pag. 41. what I reade in Gods worde that I beleeve what J read not that I doe not beleeve Shewe mee then where you read in Gods word any or all these to be effectuall Causes of this strange Agonie or some sure grounde whence evidently we may gather so much or els for my part I shall never bever beleeve you Your Sixt and k Pag. 27. c. last maine Cause is that Christ by this his bloudy sweat and vehement prayers did nothing but voluntarily performe that true bloudy Offering and Priesthood prefigured in the Law This we simply grant it hindreth not our Assertion Except you meane voluntarily in such sense that hee was not also vrged therevnto by any violence of paines or feare procuring it in him naturally Wherein you seeme to labour by bringing some Fathers and misapplying some Scriptures â—ag 29. and doe say that a you are content to admit also this exposition and of this with all the rest you pronouÌ„ce that b they are sound and well agreeing with Christian pietie â—ag 37. Yet is it contrary to c your resolution also yea it is contrary to the Scripture â—ag 290. expressing his d feare and vehement sorrowes and e discomfort to have caused his Agonie â—â—â—h 14. 〈◊〉 â—4
â—â—bâ— 5.7 Againe if you meane that all this was voluntary in him and not felt indeede according to the outwarde semblance and as men beholding him would iudgâ— Luc. 22.43 then belike you make him to have counterfayted Which thought God for bid should ever come into any Christians heart For no cause you say f I iest and iybe with the Apostles wordes Pag. 302. but I feare this is to iest and iybe in deed with the most dreadfull and bitter sorrowes of our Saviour in working for vs our Salvation And heere why say you not aswell that his Death and bloudshed on the Crosse shewed in him no paines nor infirmitie but only that voluntarily he made him selfe there the true Priest and pe formed the prefigured bloudy and deadly Sacrifice for the sins of the world As good reason altogeather you have to say so as to affirme it of his Agonie â—ag 29. As for the Scriptures which g you cite they prove in deed that Christ nowe executed his office of Priesthoode but will you divide exempt his Death on the Crosse froÌ„ his Priesthood Or his â—ines and fit mity froÌ„ ther The sanctifying of him self doeth it not as well intend and comprehende that Sacrifice on the Crosse as that of his Prayers in the Garden To thinke otherwife is without all shewe of trueth or reason yet I see not why you should cite these textes vnles you meant so neither can I see what els you meane where you conclude saying Christs Agonie being alleaged by the Apostle to demonstrat Christs Priesthood must not rise froÌ„ the terror of his own death â—ag 27. And yet h a little before you openly doe confesse and grant that his Agonie did rise from the feare of his death and that Christ had farre greater cause then any of his members to feare it Also it is contrary to your citing of Cyrill pag. 25. And heere why should i Hilary deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmitie â—ag 28. Or k Austin that his feare and perturbatioÌ„ was of infirmitie â—ag 25. Surely there is no cause For though it be against the coÌ„mon course of our Nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud yet the Divine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweat As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text a Luk. 2 44. An Angell came to give him some comfort that is least hee should have bene overwhelmed quite in his sorrow and discomfort but still he was in his Agonie and swet like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground and presently saieth My Soule is full of sorrowes even to death and thrice he prayed that this Cup and this Hower might passe from him It cannot be therefore but that by Sorrowes and Paines this sweat came though also Gods power caused it by laying vpon his Soule and body invisible supernaturall vnspeakeable sorrowes and horrors and by making his fleshe visibly to expresse in some sort this spirituall and extraordinary torment of paine and feare which he suffered And in deed where they say 1 Not Infirâ—â—ty but Poâ—â—â— did this Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that proveth the cleane coÌ„trary For Jdeo infirmitas quia potestas gessit 2 Therforâ— there waâ— firmity â—â—cause thâ—â—â— was Powâ—â— For the working of his Power in him argueth the suffering of his Infirmitie The power of God is peâ—fited in infirmÃtie And because it was aboue the course of nature therefore nature was herein oppressed not exempted from paines Thus these speak fully for vs and against you that heere appeared not Christes infirmity only in suffering but his Divine power also in punishing And this I iudge in deed to bee their very meaning But those other mysticall and figuratiue sayings of Austin Pag 28. â— Bede Bernard howe shall we admit them without better warrant That Christes bloudshead was to signifie that Martyrs should shead their bloud what reason have we so to thinke Or that his bloud head should signifie the purging of his Disciples hearts froÌ„ sinne yea or of all his Church in the whole world It did not signifie this but it did it in deed Lastly if it had thâ—se significations in it yet withall his Agonie might rise from his very Paines Feare comming from the present sense of Gods iustice and wrath nowe revealâ—d and working vpon him Hitherto we have made it manifest that in trueth you have nothing in all these wordes against our doctrine that Paines and sorrowes were the true and proper cause of Christes dreadfull Agonie nor to prove that his meere bodily paines or death was the whole Cause Now we are to shew the like in his most we full Complaint on the Crosse where he saith My God my God Math 27. why hast thou forsaken me You will aske me heere what kinde of Forsaking may this be I shewed you plainly * Treat 1 â— 6â— 65 6â— before if you had regardâ—d it Namely that Christ being also now yea specially in the feeling of infinit Paines inflicted on him sundry wayes â—â—w Christ on 〈◊〉 Crosse was â—â—â—saken of â—â—â—d See also â—â—â—g 112.113 and that directly froÌ„ Gods proper Wrath for our sinnes he felt his whole Humane nature for the time left all comfortles and alone without any ioyous assistance of his Deitie I say not that he wanted now all assistanc of his Deitie for it surely would then have quite overwhelmed him with this intollerable burdeÌ„ But his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his Passion gave him no sense nor feeling of ease comfort or ioy but all the sense of sorrowes and paines as well in spirit as in soule and body that might bee all the sense of his ioy and comfort for the while being cleane gone and wholy swallowed vp in that huge bottomles gulfe of sorrowes and paynes issuing vpon him out from the fierce Wrath of God Howbeit yet even nowe he wanted not sufficient assistance of the Deitie to sustayne him in life heerein as I said Phil. 2.7 Rom. 8.32 â—eut 10 17. â—â—c 16.17 This was that extreeme humiliation and exinanition of nature wherein †God spared not his Sonne and wherein also Christ spared not him selfe For hee vndertooke all this most willingly and yet being in it naturally grieved and sorrowed for it at some moments being astonished with it suddenly and naturally desired ease and release from it This forsaking or dereliction beseemeth the time place person and case of Christ our Ransom-payer and Purchaser of salvation with the price of his owne most direfull paines Pag. 24. c â—â—â—r 6. Expoâ—â—â—ions of â—hristes CoÌ„â—â—aint are all â—â—â—isse Not any other farre fet or hardly applyed or strangely devised by the braynes of men As in trueth all those other senses heereof are which you rather imbrace
him selfe Where you obiect Athanasius Cont. Aâ— Serm. that He could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwayes in his Father It is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christes Deitie could not be forsaken of his Father seeing it is alwayes in his Father and so was not inferior to the Father which was Arius haeresy Touching his humanity he denyeth not but God might forsake it For the Scripture saith so And in deed he forsooke it by causing in it the feeling of all Paines for sinne and by leaving it therin for a while all comfortles Your 5. Exposition is Leos conceit without warrant far fetcht hardly applyed thaâ— heere Christ putteth vs in minde why God doth often not heare our prayers but provideth better for vs then if our wils were satisfied that this is a mysticall sense â—â—g 37. a Origen also is heere as weake that Christ meaneth nothing ells but that hee was abased lower then his divine maiesty Also these senses be contrary to all the rest heere observed Your 6. and last also is likewise as contrary to the rest and as improbable in it self or more then the former That Christ heere should cite the beginning of that b Psalme â—â—al 22. only to shew the Iewes that their wrongs towardes him were Prophesied of before This c Treat 1. â—â—g 66. already I fully answered which you refute not Likewise where you say â—â—g 65. 66. He sung the whole Psalme it is d answered Wheâ—in moreover this is to be noted that surely hee now vttered no more of this Psalme but the 1. verse Eli Eli Lamma sabachtham For heereby the standers by imagined that he called for Elias Therefore he sung not the Psalme Your authorities are bare arguments Ierom bringeth no reason but his own word Chrysostom I see not what he saith to your purpose at all Finally those kindes of Dereliction which you mention c besides â—â—g 32. 33. c are nothing fitter then the former Thus far I have waded in examing your sundry and variable expositions of one poore little plaine sentence of Scripture At least 6. or 7. divers yea contrary senses you have brought of a few wordes 〈◊〉 14. of them all you say They are f all godly expositions and †All these interpretations are sound â—â—g 37. and stand well with the rules of Christian pietie How sound and fit they are it hath ben seene But verily you have a good head if you can reconcile all these and make them stand togeather and a very bad opinion of the holy Scriptures you seeme to have if you thinke they may be handled by interpretations and expositions thus that a man may take them in 6. or 7. divers senses and all iustifiable Your saying therefore â—â—g 113. that g you have spoken before asmuch to this matter as may content any man that is not fastened to his fancies more then to to the truth I omit as vaine and frivolous Now it resteth that I gather some reasons from the expresse Scripture â—â—s for vs to shew you that indeed very paines and the vehemency of sorrowes namely which hee now sustayned by way of yeelding Satisfaction and Sacrifice for sinne were the principall and onely proper Cause of his most dreadfull Agonies Complaint Which truly though it neede no reason for proofe of it the matter being so cleere in it selfe yet your vnreasonablenes is such that it draweth somewhat from me about it First No Christian doubteth I suppose much lesse denyeth that Christs most wofull Agonies Complaining belonged properly and directly to his Passion and Sacrifice and that they expressed a parte thereof yea as I thinke not the least parte But his whole Sacrifice consisted in Afflictions The Prince of our Salvation was consecrated through Afflictions Therefore Afflictions Sorrowes and Paines were the Cause of his Agonies and Complaint not his religious feare not his Piety or Pity If you say These were Afflictions vnto him I answer they properly belonged to his Holynes as partes thereof and were not a Before pâ—â— See alâ—o 〈◊〉 91 9â— immediatly directly nor properly in him as the Wages Price of sinne as his whole Passion was and every part thereof Againe that these should or could afflict Christe so much above his strength and patience it is more then strange Yea also it were no vertuâ— but sinne in any to give way to our Affections though about good thinges immoderatly beyond our patience strength of nature Lastly though they somwhat molest the minde yet in truth they are most pleasing and delightfull to good men not tedious much lesse painfull vnto death Therefore you do very ill to make these partes of Christs Holines to be proper partes of his satisfaction and the maine Causes of his Agonie and Complaint And worse you doe if you ascribe them b Pag. 27â— 115. not to any Paines in him at all Secondly The summe of these c Pag 90. forenoted Texts must be considered namely that Christe expresly wished sundry times in his dreadfull astonishment suddainly even against Gods knowen will in one respect though allwayes after his knowen will in another respect as afterward wee shall see And heere are expressed with his strange Astonishment his mighty Sorrowes and Feare of them partly felt and partly further to come You d Pag. 9 â— skip this Feare when you reckon but 4. kindes For this was neither a religious care nor doubtfull feare nor desperat nor damned feare but a right Naturall feare in Christ Which was as I said for the infinitnes of his sorrowes partly now revealed and partly further to bee laid vpon him afterward Whence also his sweating drops of bloud trickling downe from him and his intolerable Agonie and his comfort receaved by an Angell from heaven that now in this his wofull discomfort ministred vnto him and his complaying on the Crosse that his Father had forsaken him finally all his prayers and supplications with teares and strong cryes against that death which he feared Now all these things we see in Christ came because of his sorrowes and Paines in his Passion not for his zealous Holines and Sanctification â—â—â—l 51.11.2.8 David waÌ„ted somtime the present feeling of Gods comfortable spirit and mourned dolefully for the want of it albeit yet hee were not destitute of his spirit indeed which also himselfe knew well enough And thus did Christ even in his greatest plunge of wo for then he called God his God resolutly Nevertheles he being infinitly more punished then David nature could not but suddainly cast out that affection which yet was meerely naturall in him to wish ease and release of his vnmeasurable and intollerable paines Third Adde heere vnto Christs own expresse words Ioh. 12.27 â—ark 14.35 when in this season he prayeth that a this Hower and This Cup may passe from him That which This Hower and This Cup do signifie the same
is the proper principall cause of his Agonie But what can bee meant by This Hower vnles the Paines of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to beare at this determined time from Gods Iustice for sinne What is this Cup but the bitter tast of the same Paines aforesaid This I hope was not his Holines and sanctification which so troubled and molested him not his Piety nor his Pity Nay finally he himselfe expresseth the true Cause even his excessive Paines his overabounding Sorrowes and anguish saying My Soule is full of paines or full of sorrowes even vnto death Heere hee nameth the Cause For which Cause also even of intolerable and vnsupportable sorrowes and paines it must needes be that he cryed at his end My God my God why hast thou for saken me This then manefestly was the only proper and principall cause of Christes most dreadfull Agonies and perplexity in his Passion even excessive Paines and the intire want of feeling of Gods comfort Pag. 17. and nothing els How hard soever b you make it I c know not why to shew the proper principall cause thereof Treat 1. Pag. 72. And heere wee will remember againe what is taught by Authority in England The rather for that you take on as a man impatient because I doe affirme that our doctrine not yours hath the publike Authorie for it Pag. 334. You d call it an egregiously an insolent and impudent speach well becomming an alehouse c. And yet in the verie next b Pag. â—â— page in plaine termes you graunt the same to bee taught in our Homily of Christes Passion for you say thus the Hom teacheth The Justice of God pursued Christe with most paynefull smart and anguish even vnto death and forced the weaknes of his humane flesh to cry My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Heere I am sure you think not that our Homelie maketh Christs Pietie or Pitie nor yet his meere Bodily paine to force him thus farre Nor in those wordes next following there c Hom â— Pass 2. O that Mankinde should put the everlasting Sonne of God in such paines for the grievousnes of our sinnes And in trueth that the Homily is farre from both these your meanings I have plainly shewed d Pag. 6 before Adde heerevnto the full and large declaration heereof in the authorised Catechisme e Nowe techisâ—â— Christ suffered not only a common death in sight of men but à lso was thoroughly touched with the horror of eternall death he fought and wrastled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of Hell before Gods iudgement seat he put him selfe vnder the heavy and grievous severitie of Gods punishment he was driven to most hard straights hee suffered for vs and went through horrible feares and moct bitter sorrowes of the minde that he might in all things satisfye the iust iudgement of God appease his wrath For to sinners whose person Christ did heere beare not only the sorrowes and tormentes of present death are due but also of death to come and everlasting So when hee did take vpon him and beare both the guiltines and iust paine of Mankinde damned and lost he was affected with so grievous feare trouble and sorrowe of the minde or soule that he cryed out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Finally the Annotation of our great f Bibl. 1591. â— Bible authorized and appointed to be read in our Churches iustifyeth all this saying g Annoâ— Luk. 2â— Christ here felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I pray who is that Egregious lyar now I hope for my part I have spoken the truth in avouching my doctrine that forenoted Proposition Assumption also by you denyed to be our publike doctrine and fully authorized in England Wherefore you may meane some other to be h Pag. â—â— a giddy Spirit lately buzzing in the peoples eares the coÌ„trary I hope I am clear from it And thus it remayneth that we conclude even our whole Reason to be firme true which is i Pag. 9â— before delivered The paines of Christes Passion which now he felt and feared were the principall and proper cause of those his Agonies But his meere Bodily Paines and death or the feare of them caused no such things and lamentable effectes in Christ much lesse did his Pietie and Pitie Therefore Christ felt and feared Paines more and infinitly greater then meere Bodily paine and death which were the principall and proper Cause of this strange plight in him Which consequently can be none other by necessary reason then the Paines and sense of Gods wrath in his spirite properly Therefore Christ suffered that also and not only in Body as you hold Howbeit you have yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say â—ag 290. a I extend Châ—istes Agonie too farre because I will have it proceed from b the intollerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods fyrie wrath equall to Hell Treat 1. â—â—g 80. I shew not there the Cause of Christes Agonie and Feare I shewed it of purpose in the c beginning Why did you not refuse that Treat 1. â—ag 6 7 You ought to have dealt directly against that which I expresly mention to have ben the cause Thus I said His Sorrowes and sufferings for the redemptioÌ„ of sinnes The Cup of Affliction and sorrowe which now he felt and was to feele yet further Caused him to mourne and feare Say then plainly that this Cause is mistaken and too farre extended or els you say nothing to vs but by indirect and pâ—aeposterous collectioÌ„ Now if this Cause which we gave and doe give be true and right as I hope it is before proved more then sufficiently then I doubt not it is as true also by invincible reason that Christ suffered the intollerable sorrowes horrors of Gods fyrie wrath equall to Hell Which I hope also is as fully proved â—â—g 91. 117 being the effect of our d Assumption before Seeing it could not be his meere Bodily paines much lesse his Holy Affections as you hold that brought him to this miraculous miserie and distresse wherein wee see by the Text hee was Therefore they were the intollerable and incomprehensible dolours of his Spirit questionles which wrought the same There is no other sorrow in the world to be found which can be imagined to be the Cause possibly â—ag 290. And then my other wordes also which e heere you cruelly coÌ„demne shall stand well enough * That Christ as touching the vehemency of paine was as sharply touched as the Reprobats themselves â—reat 1. â—â—g 81. yea if it may be more extraordinarily Though you labour with might and maine to make them amount to Haeresie open blasphemie But why do you not bend your odious outcryes and accusations against that Authority before truly cited
either now or before he dyed in the flesh or both now then also For he might well suffer it eveÌ„ now and yet feare it more ensuing Yea such a maner measure of Feare as this manifestly was could not be but a very Suffering of these spirituall sorrowes Which also that sheweth where hee saith My Soule is full of actuall sorrowes even vnto death c. Neither is there in this any a doubt full word Pag. 304. which is your maner of writing Pag. 296. nor b device vnfit for Divinity but your CoÌ„parisons of c fearing Captivitie Pag. 301. loosing a purse c. are very vnfit to be matched with this feare in Christ Pag. 302. You thinke this was but a d iest if God be said to have heard Christ and deliuered him from that he feared and yet to let him suffer it Forsooth no iest for he doubtles suffered it as before we haue seene Nowe nevertheles GOD might well heare him 2. wayes 1. by sufficient sustayning him in it 2. by delivering him out of it in due time In one place you seeme to observe a point both strange and very contrary to your selfe Pa. 118. 119 in saying e Feare is more intollerable in Christ theÌ„ doubting Is feare so intollerable a thing for him when as you haue so often and so earnestly affirmed that he feared Pa. 22. 124. and for f feare became thus astonished Pag. 303. Where * you seeke a weake advantage in that I said eisakoustheis may seeme to shew that Christ was heard being in that which he was saved from you see I challenge no certaine but a seeming reason from that worde But your selfe maketh a stranger coÌ„clusion Ergo the Active referred to God importeth that God being in the same Paines did heare him Lastly you say g Indeed but in the Garden Christ never prayed with strong cryes teares to be saved froÌ„ Death Pag. 22 that we read in the Scriptures I hope neither doe you read expreslie in the Scriptures at all that thus he prayed in the Garden You may soundly gather it from the Scriptures I graunt Ioh. 12.27 and so you may that his praying h before was of the self same nature and maner also after in that most dolefull complaint on the Crosse when he cryed My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Where the very like request is plainlie implyed as he made in the Garden when he saide Let this Cup passe from Ieb 5.7 So that the i Apostle in all reason may bee vnderstoode to have respect to all these tymes and wofull cryes of our Saviour Christ Pag. 30. And thus it is without all reason that you say k his Agonie ended in the Garden Pa. 115. 116 and that on the Crosse hee had l alwayes persistance in ioy without obscuration or intermission Likewise also that otherwise his astonishment must a Pag. â—â— continue 18. howers from his entering into the Garden after supper to the ending of his life the next day at 3. of the clocke after noone Howe vaine is this consequence how false are these sayings and contrary to Scripture in all the circumstances But you say b Pa. 30. the cause coÌ„tinuing the effect could not cease The Cause was Gods leaving his weake nature in these sorrowes at somtimes more at sometimes lesse also he is to be thought to reveale and inflict the very sorrowes not alwayes in one tenor but sometime more sometime lesse finally his Manhood apprehended these arrowes of Gods wrath sometime more suddainly then at other times These were the true causes of his Astonishment but these continued not 18. howers togeather therefore the effect was not to coÌ„tinue still in that maner on him Then you c Pag. 29 say in the vttering of these wordes the Cup did passe from him by my owne confession I coÌ„fesse it not But I confesse his extreame astonishment did even quickly passe from him yet the sense and tast of that Cup might continue longer in such a maner and measure as he was better inabled by his Deitie to sustaine it Now what ill is there in these conceites I pray you What folly is there in them Against vs heerein you doe nothing els almoste in your large Treatise Iniuriouâ— sâ—eacheâ— but heape vp many and most false imputarions That we thinke Christ was in d Pag. â—â—â— 116. 1â—â— doubt and feare of Gods favour e Pag. 1â—â— destitute of faith hope love ioy forsaken of Gods favour grace Spirit that f Pag. â—â—â— he continued 18. howres togeather amazed as it were in a trance that he g Pag. â—â—â— vehemently and often strugled and strived in his prayers against the knowen will of God sought by all meanes to decline the worke for which he came into the world His flesh feared death though his Spirit submitted it self to the will of his heavenly Father h Pag. â—â— We put Christ besides him selfe when it pleaseth vs that he knew not what he prayed nor prayed in faith Your L. if you had reasons but any thing probable wanteth not outward meanes enough to commend your cause you neede not to devise against vs such grosse and base vntruths But it bewrayeth how desperat your matter is which can not come foorth nor make any shew to the world without such proppes to leane on Besides that which heere in severall places wee haue declared to the coÌ„trary in our i Pag. 5â— 70. 71. former Treatise we shewed our minde though briefly yet sufficientlie against these iniurious speaches How you seeme to avouch that Christ was by God forsaken in a Body 〈◊〉 114.116 â—â—2 103 â—â—ore 〈◊〉 but not in b Soule let them declare that can For my part I know not your secret therein I am sure no man can in trueth maintaine it As for c Ambrosâ— 114. â—â—â—e pag. 113. 128. 1â—0 〈◊〉 1. of yeâ—â—â—ion See â—â—â—re pag. you wrest him as you did Hilary c d before After this you are bold and aske if e any dare doubt of your doctrine Yea surely I dare not but doubt of it Also we have seene that the publike f authorised doctrine in England dareth to doubt of it Which maketh Christes putting him selfe betweene Gods Wrath and our sinnes a parte divers from his bodily death on the Crosse â—â—â—ore pag. â— yet the extreamest part of his Passion See also other g authorised testimonies heereof But why may not any dare doubt of your doctrine Pet. 2. Because the Scripture saith h Christ suffered for vs. leaving vs an example that we should followe his steppes c. And this is very true also the godly doe followe his steppes heerein many times as I i shewed you before â—at 1. pa. heere 120.129 Some are conformable in some measure with Christe even in these his sufferings Then k you say we ought to be glad and reioyce thereof I answer we ought to
turne them to ioy gladnes though not properly to be glad of them Nay we ought most instantly to pray against them No affliction at all is good in it owne nature and the greatest of all is good to Gods children by his grace So that touching this vse of them therein wee are to reioyce even when we are most bruized and pearced in our soules with the terrours of God Lastlie 〈◊〉 134. l you frame an obiection against your selfe which you neither doe nor can answer Christs soule might feele the tormentes of Hell for the time without any distrust or doubting of his salvation or our redemption You pretend thïs answer The essentiall tormentes of Hell are the absolute losse of Gods kingdom everlastingly and that m Eternall continuance is of the nature and substance of Hell But we shew you â— 53 although the damned are in Hell torments everlastingly and of necessitie so must bee yet eternall continuance in them and to feele them but for a time are indeed but Circumstances not of the essence or nature of Hell tormentes Gods proper and extreame wrath only and his sharpest vengeance for sinne is the essence or nature of Hell paines Which against the Damned indeed is eternall and vnsatisfyable but lighting on Christ it was not eternall because it was satisfyable Wherefore it is plaine that you have answered in effect nothing to your owne obiectioÌ„ Thus far we have gone shewing that we a Pag. 2 neither extende the cause of Christes Agonie to far in affirming it to have com of most bitter extreame Paines which he suffred properly for our sinns neither that we coÌ„tinue it to long in affirming that he felt the same most extreamely on the Crosse Contrariwise that you curtaile it to short when you say it was no more but b Pag. 1 290. Devotion to God and Compassion to men also that Christes Agonie touched him c Pa. 11â— not at all on the Crosse So that d Before 90.91.116 our Maine argument which you would haue frustrated standeth firme and good still that seeing his Agonies Paines and Feares were such so great as the Scripture by the effects signes sheweth that they were both before his death and at his death therefore they were more then meere bodily paines and more then meere bodily death much lesse were his Holy and Religious affections the proper and speciall Cause thereof But of necessity they were the Paines proceeding from the infinit and sharpe Iustice of God which Christ truly suffered in his Spirit and Soule and Body After this a Pag 3â— Touchiâ—â— Death oâ—â—â— Soule you set vehemently against my last argument That Christ suffered in some sorte the death of the Soule First if wee should speake strictly after the maner of Death in the Body then no man is so mad or foolish as to say that any mans Soul can dye at all that is want life and sense as a dead body doth Thus the very damned soules in Hell suffer not death But such a death as immortall soules are subiect subiect vnto is Gods separation froÌ„ them And this is 2. folde The 1. death and the 2. death as the Scripture speaketh The 1. is the separation of them from Gods grace which is in this life by sinne raigning in them The 2. death is Gods leaving them in the feeling of the most sharpe and most vehemeÌ„t paines inflicted by Gods iustice for sinne This last kind of death is so called and named in many places of b Ezek. Gen. 2â— Rom. 6â— 2. Cor. 3.7.5.20 aâ— 1. Ioh. 17. Scripture It hath also a double consideration First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the Damned for their owne inherent sinne where withall are the ordinary Accidents and coÌ„comitants togeather Desperation induration blaspheming vtter darkenes c. with Perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in Hell In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they deny that Christ suffered the death of the Soule and so likewise do we Secondly The death of the soule or the 2. death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essense of it 〈◊〉 Death the Soule â—â—rist tasted That is the feeling of most deadly infinit paines inflicted by God himselfe in his proper iustice for sinne all sense also of his comfortable presense being taken away This is a Death to the Soul â—â—g 113. â—ag 135. 6. â—ag 112. 3. as * before we have shewed according to this sense the Scriptures †Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to deny it in Christ so that this kind of Death in the soule but none other we may safely say Christ did suffer for our sinne imputed to him Moreover let it be observed that if wee had no proofes at all in Scripture for this point yet our Question is fully proved coÌ„firmed notwithstanding by those other sufficient pregnant proofes alleaged iustified before For it is be to noted that no man setteth the questioÌ„ in these termes That Christ dyed in his soule neither doe we at all vse them very much in speaking of this matter We do only when some speciall occasion draweth it from vs neither then do we vtter it in those termes but with vsing some further declaration of our minde The reason of this warynes is because we are not ignorant how ambiguous the phrase is and how apt to be mistaken specially where men list to cavill Also people vntaught and vnsetled in construing the scriptures sense do quickly take offense at thinges which they ought better to digest So that you doe very iniuriously to grate still one this phrase of speach and to straine it to the worst as you do as if by no meanes it could beare any good sense and as if we built our maine Assertion onely heerevpon Which in truth is nothing so The same also doe we affirme touching our vsing in this matter the phrase of Christs suffering Hell paines Both these phrases are but seldome and respectively vsed by vs. Howbeit we deny not but that both these phrases may be well and rightly applyed vnto Christ on occasion â—â—g 16. 52. â—â— 113. as * before is observed may both serve truly and most emphatically to expresse the infinitnes of the paines and sorrowes of his suffering for vs. Yea this very phrase of death extended in Christ further then to his meere bodily dying hath I doubt not expresse ground in the Scripture and therefore may the better be vsed soberly admitted charitably You will aske where is there any scripture Proofes that Christe suffered any other death then that meerely of his body I answer First consider well that to the c Hebr. â—ebr 5.7 Hee offered vp prayers and supplications with strong crying teares to him that was able to save him from death It is not possible that this Death heere should be
same Hee was crucified touching his infirmitie but liveth by the power of God His infirmitie the text heere nameth Metonimically vnderstanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were Now his Soule had infirmities of suffering in it as well as his body Therefore his Soule also is vnderstood heere that it was Crucifyed and dyed that is according to the condicion thereof as likewise his body according to the condicion thereof And thus that which Paul calleth infirmitie Peter calleth Flesh and that which Paul calleth the power of God Peter calleth the Spirit That is his Deitie is set oppositly in both these places to his whole Humanitie even to body and soule Aug. de 4.13 To which purpose that place also to the “ Rom. Romanes doth serve where the like opposition is found as I have shewed betwene the Flesh and the Spirit in Christ that is his Manhood and Godhead Other reasons also * Treat 137 1â— I haue noted serving well heerevnto as the 4 5 and 6. but I omit to rehearse them againe For it seemeth your selfe agreeth with vs in them â—â—g 324. holding a expresly that the Spirit heere in Peter is the Deitie of Christ according to Austins iudgement Now this being granted and acknowledged that the Spirit heere signifieth Christes Godhead how can it be likely but that the other opposit part the Flesh must needes import his whole and intire Manhood Verily thus it seemeth most plaine that Peter heere distributeth the whole and absolute person both God and Man into these Natures the Flesh and the Spirit Wherfore I can not thinke but that the Apostle heere vnderstandeth by Flesh the whole and intire Manhood of Christ even his Soule and his body Now this being so then it followeth by the text that Christ in his Passion was don to death both in Soule Pag. 320. body Heere you obiect that thus I make all the attributes of the body common to the Soule Nay forsooth that I doe not Nor yet this attribute of Dying vnderstood in such sort and maner as the Body properly dyeth that is to become without life and sense I ascribe Death to both but yet according to the divers condicion and state of both â—reat 1. Pâ—g 78. And thus you might vnderstand my b meaning to be where I say it is absurd false that Christ was made aliue in his Humane Soule that is it neither lost nor recovered life and sense so as his body did â—â—â—e before 〈◊〉 135 136 Howbeit as Death is oftentymes attributed to mens soules in the c Scripture that is the feeling of the extreame wrath of God and the punishment for sinne so d I make Death commoÌ„ both to Christes Soule and body â—â—eat 1. â—â—g 79. even to his whole and intire humane Nature Which if you do not acknowledge the shame of ab surditirie and coÌ„trarietie which in your fancy e you accuse me of that Christes Soule dyed and dyed not â—â—g 322. â—â—3 will sit neerer to you theÌ„ to me Also in such a sense I deny not but Christ may be said that he was quickened in the Spirit that is refreshed and comforted againe in his Soule and restored from that bottomles gulfe of sorrowes to the lively feeling of heavenly ioyes and glory which for a season he had no sense of at all Howbeit though this sense bee a true quickening in his Soule yet I deny that heere in this place of Peter it can be translated quickened in the Spirit meaning the Soule because Spirit heere in this opposition is set indeed for the Deitie of Christ â—â—â—d you with â—â—â—stin doe â—â—sent * as before I have shewed Thus the matter I hope is cleere to reasonable men that Christes Soule even according to the Scripture phrase may be said in some sorte to have tasted and suffered Death that is the extreamest feelings of Gods wrath for sinne and the most vehement paines of the damned though not as the damned doe in respect of the Accidents and concomitants of their ordinary damnation but in a singular maner and extraordinarie way as became the sonne of God and a sinles man yet a very maÌ„ being our Redeemer Now besides the matter you “ Pag. 3 gird at me in divers places as where I say The Death of the Soule is such Paines and sufferings of Gods wrath as allwayes accompanie them that are separated from the grace and love of God Forfooth it is true they are alwayes wicked whom these Paines doe accompanie ordinarily They came vpon Christ extraordinarilie as in a Treat â— pag. 77. this place I expresly noted That was therfore my meaning here if you would haue seene it In another place also b Pag. 33. you know that I say Hell as I take it that is such paines of Gods wrath is * Treat 1 pag. 80. sometime found in this life Thus then you might haue vnderstood my former wordes and not that the tormentes of Hell doe alwayes accompanie the wicked in this life I pray conceave not my meaning against my expresse wordes Againe c Pag 31â— you pretende to haue much against me where I say The feeling of the sorrowes of Gods wrath due to sinne in a broken and contrite heart is indeed the only true and perfitly accepted sacrifice to God True so I said and againe I say it What see you amisse in it Then vnhappy men are the godly which are at any time free from the paines of the damned To what purpose is this I speake of Christs Sacrifice I pray is any other Sacrifice perfitly accepted or a Sacrifice at all but Secondarily that is in and by Christes Sacrifice They are not His Sacrifice then is the onely true Sacrifice and perfitly accepted to God All others are imperfit and accepted not in them selues but only in and by Christ Thus your triumphes before the victorie come to nothing but blastes of vanitie But Augustin †Pag. 32 doth flatly deny that this text can be thus vnderstood or that Christes Soule might dy Austin d Epist 9â— denyeth that Christ suffied any paines of damnation locally in Hell after his death as it seemeth some helde about his time whoÌ„ here he laboureth to confute So that he meaneth to reprove onely the e See besâ—â—â— pag 139 1st sense of the Death of the Soule in him viz. that he suffred it not Ordinarily after the maner of other men nor any way locally Hâ— hath no nâ—cessarie cause to speak of the 2. sense thereof how the Soule may be said to suffer death Extraordinarily for sinne imputed only neither doeth he speake against that in Christ Nay according to Austins owne Definition of the Soules Dying it will easily appeare that Christes Soule may be said to have suffered some kinde of Death de verh 〈◊〉 Ser â—0 〈◊〉 Trin. 4. Saith he a Moritur anima si recedit Deus and b Mors est spiritûs deseri Ã
effect they are all one with Thanatos Death but that Thanatos belongeth properly to Bodyes Hades Sheol sometimes to Bodyes sometime to Soules of Men indifferently Yea sometime these 2. are applyed though more rarely to other things also which are in this visible world namely wheÌ„ they com to Destruction and No being any more as anon we shall better vnderstande Now let vs proceed and shew further even by the Scriptures first that Sheol and Hades are as I say more then once vsed for the generall condition of death wherein even iust mens soules are held or the mansion of soules departed aswell good as bad Then afterward the common consent of others will availe the more That a Psalm 4â— Psalme which intreateth wholy of Death of the impossibility to escape it of the power which it hath over the wicked whose ioy and pompe is only in this world in that it cutteth of all their hopes it endeth their pleasure and marreth all their bewty I say in this Psalme where all expresse circumstances do shew that the Prophet speaketh of this death not of Hell yet David heere saith * verse 1â— notwithstanding God shall deliver my soule from the power of Sheol that is death or the state of death when hee shall reoeave mee most mightily So Tremelius turneth it noting heere Davids hope of the Resurrection which I think he hath well vnderstood in this place Otherwise David might heere comfort himselfe in this that hee knew God would save him alive from this common death not alwayes as you friuolously obiect but oftentimes yea alwayes till he should enioy the Kingdome which indeed God did for him when he was neere death not seldome and when his enemies the wicked were caught therewith Againe that b Psal 8â— Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My Soule is filled with sorrowes and my life draweth neere to Sheol By his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountayne of life in him which also in the first parte of the sentence hee expresly named As the manner of phrase in the Psalmes is in the 2. parte of the sentence commonly to speake of the same things that are vttered in the former but varying the termes That life heere should signifie the body distinctly from the soule there is no such likelyhood nor reason Indeed I deny not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man As in these â—esaide Psal â— 48. 49 â— 10 16. al â—116 8. in â—â—y many â—aces of scripâ—â—e besides and so may c nephesh the soule also very wel and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the Grave which only is for the carcase but the condition of the Whole maÌ„ after he hath no being in this world In which regard chose what sense you will either that nephesh and chai shall in all these places of the Psalmes before handled signifie strictly the soul as very fitly it may or the whole person of man consisting both of a soule and of a living body contrary to which estate Sheol and Hades is very often taken g That is if it â—re not strictly â—â—d peculiarly â—â—e habitation â—sâ—y Souls yet â—â—s the condiâ—ur of the whole â—son that is â—â—â—h of Soul â—â—dy separaâ—â— by Death â—ob 30.23 and d peradventure so it is vnderstood heere in these places In which sense Sheol Hades are far from signifying hell yea or heaven either yea or only and meerely the Grave but it signifieth destruction from out of this world no-being here any more as afore time to the whole person that is both to the Soule and to the Body And thus Sheol and Hades Iob resembleth to a house or Habitation where he nameth it †Beth mâ—gned lecol chai the habitation after this world appointed for every person or if you will for all living things The same also Iob wisheth and desireth of God to himselfe that God would hide him Bisheol in this world of the deceased â—ob 14.13 would give him terme till his wrath was overpast In another place he comforteth himselfe thinking quickly to enioye it saying †Jf I have any hope Sheol or Hades â—ob 17.13 the world of the deceased shal be my habitation He ioyneth therevnto also particularly the grave but as touching Sheol seeng Iob speaketh of it as his continuall habitation till the worldes end it cannot be meant only of the Grave for his body which indured but a very short time neither had his flesh any being at all after it was turned to very earth and wormes He speaketh heere therefore also of his soules continuing habitatioÌ„ or mansion in another world Gen. 37.35 because they â—â—ch dy their â—â—ons do fall â—â—vne according to the Latin â—â—tase cadere â—â—idere occuÌ„â—â— to Dy. And in greatest reason this is that which Iaacob meaneth when he saith He will goe downe mourning to his sonne iâ— Sheol That is He will mourne till he dy for this he meaneth by * going downe heere speaking of death And then he hopeth to enioye the societie of his deare sonne in soule For his body hee thought was devoured and digested in the bellies of wilde beasts therefore he would goe to the soule of his sonne in Sheol Or els vnderstanding heere the dissolution passage of his Whole person he may meane partly his going downe to the graue as touching his body and yet also the enioying of the societie of his deare sonne in Sheol which surely as J said could not bee in body but in soule Thus Sheol heere hath respect to the changed estate of Iacobs whole person dissolved and not to one parte thereof only his body but to his soule also and it hath respect likewise to the estate of his dead sonnes soule where this loving Father hoped againe to haue society with him not any where els without which he could not be comforted Albeit in another place it seemes hee limiteth Sheol to the graue only but that we doe so vnderstand by reason of the Circumstances a Gen. 42. you will bring my Gray Head with sorrow to the Grave But againe to follow our purpose Good Hezekiah also looked for Sheol to be his habitation likewise after this life I said saith “ Isay 38. â—â— 11 12. he I shall goe to the gates of Sheol the Land of the dead I shall not see the Lord in the Land of the living I shall see Man no more among the inhabitaÌ„ts of the world My habitation or Mansion is translated and removed from me as a sheapheards tent c. This heere cannot be the Grave nor Hell which he describeth For he thought he should theÌ„ have dyed and thus his habitation he thought should haue ben removed and translated from him that is I take it his body should be remoued from his soule which was the mansion or habitation of his soule while he lived but now he should
haue another age “ Dâ—r◠〈◊〉 age my coâ—â—nuance or during oâ— my maÌ„sioÌ„ or induring or Mansion and be remoued to another place This can not be vnderstood of his Carcase rotting and wasting away to nothing in the graue and therefore indureth not as the word signifieth therfore he meaneth it of his Soules removing and abiding elswhere Also he expresly opposeth the land of the living to Sheol therfore Sheol is the land of the dead not the graue only nor Hell only * Which alâ— to be collecâ— of that in Prophet toâ—â—ing Christ scinditurâ— râ viventiâ— Isai 53.8 but as large and as generall to the dead and as fit to receaue both the partes of men yea both good and bad men but separated and dissolved as the land of the living is to receave both those partes vnited and knit togeather Againe Hezekiah was a godly man therefore hell was not for him also though hee should not see the Lord in the land of the living which was the thing he desired yet thereby hee seemeth to insinuate that in the land of the dead hee might see him whither he was about to go and that must needes be the place of blessed Soules even that which heere is noted by the word Sheol â—â—g 150. It is a most vaine reason that you give that sheol heere is to be taken for Hell and so to be translated because death to the wicked is the passage to Hel which death Hezekiah was now neere vnto It is vntrue that Hezekiah was neere vnto that death which the wicked dy or that he feared that kind of death or that there is no sound differeÌ„ce betwene the death of the godly the death of the wicked or that by any meanes according to sound divinity the death of the godly may be named or taken for Hell This is so vaine that I will not stand any longer to answere it Another obiection of yours a is as weake Pag. 400. where you say Sheol heere must be the Grave because it is said b afterward ver 18. Sheol doth not confesse the death cannot praise thee c. Though I grant that the Grave is not heere excluded especially in the words next after They that go down to the pit cannot hope for thy truth yet I affirme that Sheol namely in the former place vers 10. cannot exclude the mansion of good mens soules departed hence that for the reasons aboue noted Neither heere doth this circumstance limite it to the Grave onely because it is said Sheol confesseth not thee For it is evident that He Zekiah meaneth not absolutly that there is no praising of God in Sheol but onely hee vnderstandeth that which c hee so greatly desired â—hich was ytâ—â—inary great â—re of the â—lly geneâ—y psal 42. 84.1 the outward frequenting of the Temple the holy Ceremonies and Sacrifices ioyning to the visible congregation and publishing of Gods goodnes to others Which hee expresseth immediatly to be that praising of God that he meaneth cannot be in Sheol by knitting close to the former these words d The living â—sa 38.19 the living he shall confesse thee as I do this day the Father to the Children shall declare the truth This is that which he denieth of sheol that none there doe praise God to the example and edifying of others He denyeth not simply nor absolutly that there is none in sheol at all in any respect that praise God The very same David expresseth also very plainly Psal 116.9 saing e I shall walke before the Lord in the land of the living Psal 118.17 and f I shall not dye but live and declare the workes of the Lord. Where vnlesse they meant only this visible praysing of God to others edifying otherwise these holy men had no cause so greatly to desire to praise God heere for they knew very wel how that for their own parts they should prayse him much better and more perfitly in the next world The Seâ—â—â—â—gint vse 〈◊〉 in the fanâ—â—â—â—â— To the very same purpose the Septuagint vse hades in other places also besides in their translating of these aforesaid For it is truly and well acknowledged by you g Pag 4â— that both these wordes Sheol and Hades are iust all one Now the Septuagint I say in other places do shew thus much also h Psal 9 〈◊〉 after the â—â—â—tuagint Jf the Lord had not holpen me my soule had almost dwelt in Hados in Hebrue it is in silence Which is not meant of hell for there is weeping and wayling and gnashing of teeth but of the state of death Nor yet of the Grave onely because heere it is named to bee the Habitation of the Prophets soule whither it was almost come when he was like to have dyed Againe i Psal 7â— My soule was filled with sorrowes and my life drew neere to hades How my soule and my lift heere are taken for the selfe same I have shewed before As also in that of Iob k Iob. 3â— his life or soule is in hades in the world of the Dead Againe it suffiseth for our purpose that Hades and Sheol are often vsed even indifferently for “ Sheoll 〈◊〉 Hades aâ—â—â—sed often 〈◊〉 only Deaâ—â— effect Thanaâ—â—â—mors Death and as being in effect the same or for the state and Condicion of Death or the Power of Death Which also sometime we may likewise conceave of the Latin Inferi which is by the Translatours and other writers vsed for Sheol and Hades though I deny not very daungerously and corruptly in deed First for a Pro. 2â— misheol the Greeke hath ek thanátou from death reckoning Death and Sheol to be all one So in Ecclesiastes b Eccle. Sheol and c veâ—s Hammethim the dead are in effect all one And the very same doeth Esai call d Isa 3â— Shagnare Sheol the gates of sheol which the e Psa 9. â— 107.18 Psalmes and f Iob. 3â— Iob doe call Shagnare maueth the gates of Death In the * Pâ—o. 3â— and 27â— Proverbes he meaneth Death not Hell nor the Grave strictly taken where by an excellencie the greedines of it is noted for being Neuer satisfied For Death generally craâ—eth more then either Hell or the Grave strictly taken do So likewise Abakuk coupleth them togeather as being in effect alone “ Abaâ— Like sheoll and Death it will not be satisfied Thus also it will appeare that that which g Psal â— David reioyseth for the very same in effect h Psal â— Christ heere reioyseth for Only with this difference David reioyseth that God had delivered his soule from death theÌ„ when he was likely to have dyed Christ reioyseth because God would deliuer his soule from the Condicion of Death sheol after he was in it speedily even before his flesh should corrupt This might be evideÌ„tly shewed in infinit places mo but that it is vtterly needles In this
this last way is not the vnlikelyest Hades heere signifieth in effect nothing els but Death that Christs Soul departed this life was held therein but could not be holden fast â—â—g 166. You obiect c We must not make a Figurative sense but where manefest need is Heere is no need of a figurative sense Therefore heere ought to be no Figure supposed I answer First wee grant your Conclusion whether of the 2. former wayes soever that we take hades so there is simply no Figure at all therein Sec Then your own sense of Hell in this place is cleane overthrown by your selfe For whensoever hades and sheol do signifie Hell it is indeed by a Figure namely Synékdoche where the Whole is set for a part Which I have proved at large before â—â—re pag. particularly by d Tremellius a sufficient man for his Hebrue skill Wherefore by this reason Hell cannot possibly be meant heere if no Figure be admitted Third it seemeth convenient and also likely to take hades heere by a Prosopopoea after our 3. sense before noted Which kind of Figure supposeth as it were a Person of that thing which otherwise a word properly signifieth So that by this figure nothing of the wordes native signification is diminished Thus our word hades is vsed in the Corinthians O Hades where is thy victory Also as it may seeme in the Revelation Death Hades were cast into Hell â—â—ther as pa. 17â— Thus then it is nothing but emphatically signifying the power of Death Fourth Admit that hades and sheol did properly signifie Hell as we see they do not Likewise that sometime they signifie only the Grave which also you acknowledg it is true when it is applyed to a dead Body Againe admit that nephesh by a Figure may signifie the whole Person yea e the dead Body somtimes 〈◊〉 doth 〈◊〉 21.1 〈◊〉 2â— 4 Then I affirme that heere in this place of necessity there ought to be vnderstood a Figurative sense Heere is plainly most necessary cause For take them thus literally as you doe and they impugne the groundes of faith and charitie Which f Pag 1â— you grant that rightly is sufficient to cause a Figurative sense in Scripture But how do they impugne faith or charity being taken as you take them Verily thus Your sense implyeth by the way and consequently Points in Assertion â—â—â—trary to â—â—â—coÌ„mon â—â—oâ— Faith 〈◊〉 charity that a good and sinles man yea the best that ever was worthy of Paradise and the highest Heavens yet after death did go to Hell And further that being in Heaven yet he stayed not there as you say but immediatly came out againe to go into Hell Againe that a Humane soule being in the depth of Hell yet should feele no paines and that being locally in hell it should com out thence also What can be more against the generall rules of the Scripture then these things Yea how doth this impugne our generall charity towards all the iust when they dy Besides many other disproportions and vnreasonable inconveniences following withall as anon we shall further see Wherefore if by any meames possibly a Figure may be heere admitted certainly it must be so for these most necessary causes last rehearsed The rather seeing no other text any where insinuateth any such peculiar matter in Christ that he should differ in these points from all good men els as you do vrge But you say The Cirâ—â—stances 〈◊〉 against yâ—â— the circumstances heere doe prove that the word must be Hell properly taken That I would faine see What are these circumstances First this place sheweth * Pag. 1â— a special prerogative verified in none but in Christ I deny it heere is no such prerogative mentioned Except this that whereas some other men after death have returned to life againe it was not by their owne power as Christs ResurrectioÌ„ was Againe God in his revealed wil having signified by his Prophet long before that he should be restored speedily to life againe thus it was simply impossible that Christ should be holden fast by the power of Death although it had got hold of him And so indeed he had a prerogative before all men ells which also is heere shewed vs but no other prerogative in the world neither heere nor any where els caÌ„ be gathered touching his returne from Hell You adde No flesh dead was ever free from corruption but only Christes What then Ergo his Soule was in Hell Or ells why bring you such needles and impertinent matter Besides I iudge that not to be true Were not a Pag. 1â— some being dead raised to life againe before their flesh putrified But nonâ— you say in the sepulchre And what then How will this inferre or prove that so none but Christs Soul was ever supported in Hel or that it was ever there These are simple reasons for so great a conclusion Then you say Jf by Hell we vnderstand Paradise it was no privilege to be there not forsaken but rather a childish absurdity to thinke any Soule might be there forsaken It is a strange absurdity still to abuse your reader calling this word Hel â—â—tio prinâ—◠〈◊〉 which indeed is nothing but Death in effect the Power of death or the condition and state of death Againe to presume that wee take it for Paradise or Heaven or Hell at any time when we referre it allwayes to the generall state of the Dead and no further immediatly Now in this Christ had cause to reioyce that neither his Soule nor Body was left but so soone raysed vp to perfit life againe and so sitted to a full receaving of glory which within few dayes after he had Also besides this cause his deliverance from the condition of death he had an other inestimable cause to reioyce that he was raised to life againe namely that he might fulfill his whole work for our Salvation which before his Resurrection Ascension c he could not accomplish â—â—g 170. Further b you obiect that Peter maketh mention that the sorrows of death were broken that they should not hold Christ nor hinder him from rising againe But there were none such in the Grave none in Paradise Therfore in Hel Christs Soule was whence he was delivered when he rose againe I denie vtterly this sequele Because the text saith not that there were any present sorrowes in Hades where Christ was Heere is not a word to any such purpose 〈◊〉 2.24 What saith the text God raised him vp loosing the sorrowes of Death because it was impossible for him to bee holden fast of it Wil you coÌ„clude froÌ„ hence Ergo there were present sorrows in that place where Christ was There is no strength in this reason The Apostle signifieth heere 2. or 3. things 1. That God loosed Death froÌ„ him wherein hee was held but could not be holden fast 2. That this Death had bene a most sorrowfull painfull Death
which indeed he tasted to the full vpoÌ„ the Crosse As this Hebraisme the sorrowes of Death for a sorrowfull Death may emphatically signifie Also he may set these 2. the sorrowes of Death thus togeather as the Cause and the Effect signifying that by the violence of sorrowes and bitter paines which he suffered Death came vnto him tooke hold of him but it could not hold him fast because God himselfe loosed and dissolved it Thus then it can not follow by the text that there were sorrows now in hades where Christ was Further the very text implyeth that Christ was holden in this which was loosed from him I say he was holden but not a Kraâ—â— to bâ—â— fast â—â—enâ—â—â—â—ctoriâ—â— holdâ—â— holden fast Now he was not holden in sorrows for then he could not but have felt them after death which you will not affirme It was therefore Death which came by sorrows whereof he was holdeÌ„ but not held fast Againe it appeareth that Christ was in that which was loosed and rid from him Thou wilt not b enâ—aâ—sai leave my soule in hades I say he was now in the same wherein he was not left nor forsaken But he was in no sorrows at all now for then I think he should have †By 〈◊〉 Sorrowâ—â— felt of 〈◊〉 who aâ—â— them felt them he was in death and in the power thereof Therefore it was Death and the power thereof which was loosed at Christes resurrection not any present sorrowes and paines Neither is it the nature of Sorrowes to hold and hinder froÌ„ ResurrectioÌ„ but it is the strength of Death which doth that Thus c Pag. 1â— your collection out of Austin is against the true and plaine meaning of the text where you say that the sorrowes of death or hel were brokeÌ„ before Christ so he was never in theÌ„ but as the snares of hunters are broken ne teneant non quia tenuerunt before “ You 〈◊〉 the veâ—â— pa. 17â—â—â—ting â—hâ—â— it they tooke hold not after they had taken hold This is meerely imagined the text plainly meaneth an other loosing and dissolving namely of the power of Death as I said vnder the which Christs manhood even the Body also aswell as the Soule was now for a while held but not victoriously holden fast when Gods will was that he should rise againe Yet you mightily vrge how that it is d Pag. 1â—â— 196. Austins collection from this text I perceave your argument is from Austin and not from Peter as e Pag. 13â— 170. you pretend When you cite Scripture it is enough belike if any learned man do collect and frame an opinion from the text whether right or wrong You may easily see by that before that this collection of Austin hath no ground nor reason in the text but is indeed disproved by it Which may the sooner be conceaved if we note how he missed in his Translation of these words Thus he readeth solutis doloribus inferni August 〈◊〉 99. quia impossible erat teneri eum in illis whom God raised vp loosing the sorrows of hell because it was impossible that he should be held in them But the text hath Loosing the sorrowes of f Thanátâ—â— not Hadâ—â— which he 〈◊〉 staketh foâ— Hell death seeing it was impossible that he should be g holden fast or strongly holden h of it â—â—teisthai 〈◊〉 is more 〈◊〉 Austins â—â—ri to bee â—â—ply holdeÌ„â—â—â—p ' aâ—tou 〈◊〉 illis in 〈◊〉 sorrows 〈◊〉 hath it Thus it seemeth Austin looked not to the originall which he ought to have don specially nowe inquiring into and sifting out an obscure point of Christian faith as it appeareth that heere Austin doth In no wise ought he to have leaned to a faulty Translation as this is which he followeth Seeing therefore hee fayled in expressing the text no marvaile if his Collection froÌ„ it were wide Wherein also he is no where resolut nor perswaded indeed therfore a weak stay is he alone for our faith to rest on in this article Nay in the winding vp of that Epistle his godly modesty is registred for example to you and all Christian Ministers He gives vs good leave to refuse his collection and opinion heere so that we bring better reason Thus he saith Hec expositio verborum Petri cui displicet c. Now whether we bring reason to dissent from Austin heerein or no I referre it not to you to iudge who are to partiall but to every indifferent learned reader The rather for that mo Circumstances of this text doe make also affirmatively for vs. 〈◊〉 2.29 First a Peter plainly granteth all this matter of David aswell as of Christ except this that David was left therein even till this day as Christ was not But David was never in Hel. Therefore neither Christ was ever there whose figure David was Sec If it be altogeather heere from the purpose of Peter to speake to the ignorant and vnbeleeving Iewes of Christs Souls being in hell then there is no reason to take these wordes hades and sheol heere for hell But by the whole b 〈◊〉 â—2 Text it is evident Peter had no reason nor purpose to speak to the Iewes of Christs Souls being in hell Therefore I see not how hades sheol if they but might signifie otherwise can heere signifie hell His whole and direct purpose was to shew them of Christs Soules departure out of this world and of his Body lying dead in the grave as is the maner of other men when they dy and that he was from thence mightily c raysed vp againe to life 〈◊〉 31. more then other men were or can be Heere to speake to them of his Soules being in hell what were there in it 1. They being as I said ignorant vnbeleeving and stubborne 2. The thing being invisible strange and vncouth not subiect to sense and without all example of the like in the whole Law namely no Figure foreshaddowing any such matter to be fulfilled in him 3. He intending only in all this speach to shew them that this Iesus whom they had slaine was not now dead but risen againe why should he speake heere of hell Christes being there made nothing the more to shew his Resurrection which was the * ver â—â— only scope of his speach But being so disproportioned with then former faith and vnderstanding it would rather hinder then further them to the Christian faith Both these CircumstaÌ„ces I noted before but I see no answer to them Wherefore I hope they with the rest of my assertions heerein are firme and good Thus it appeareth that hades doth not every where signifie a Pa. 17â— 403. Hell in the New Testament We have seene that it hath no such meaning in the Actes which yet is the only Scripture whereon you build Alas how litle a shew serveth your turne when affection leadeth you This were sufficient to end this Argument but yet it shal be
that is the DominioÌ„ or power of Death were cast into Hell â—â—v 20.14 I said it was absurd to say Hell was cast into Hell You answer it is more absurd to say the world of Soules was cast into Hell Where you doe but dally and play with words â—t â— e woâ—â—â—e â—e Deaâ— Aâ—â—ally For I vse not that terme * the world of soules though it may be named sometime in a good sense Which you will by no meanes conceave only you delight much to sport your sâ—lfe with it Our answer theÌ„ is this There is no absurditie to say that at the last day when the * last enemy shal be destroyed then Death â—â—â—ore pag. 2. and the power of Death or the Kingdome and Dominion of Death shal be cast into Hel that is eternally dâ—stâ—oyâ—d abâ—â—ished shall râ—turn to the Divell whâ—â—â— they came To say many soâ—t that theÌ„ Hell phalbe cast into Hell souÌ„deth sensâ—les in my â—atâ—s Although you meane the Contayning to bâ— put for the Contayned Hâ—ll for the Divels of Hel and that the Divels shalbâ— theÌ„ cast into hâ—l fire Yea although one Andreas â—eda vnderstand it so likewise For neither you nor they it â—â—â—meth do cosidâ—r that this place assigneth them to Hell then at the last day who yet are not in Hell but shal be then cast into Hell â—nd destroyed But the Divels are a 2 Pet. 2. Iâ—d 6. in Hell already reserved in eâ—â—rlasting châ—mes of darknes Therefore the Divels cannot be vndâ—â—stood heere by Hadâ—s that they shal be then cast into Hel seeing â—hey are already cast in to Hell for ever Death and the Power thereof being the last enemie that shal be dâ—stroyed is not yet but shal be indeed at the last day aboliâ—hed swallowed vp of Hell Lastly â—eere is shewed the most general vniversall rendring vp of all the â—ead whatsoever to iudgment But Hel plainly hath not all the Dead Death the world of the Dead or thâ— Dominion of Death have all Therefore Dâ—ath Hades heere do not signifie properly the Divâ—ll Hell but this only that Death and the vniversall Dominion or power of Death yeelded vp to iudgment al the Dead both great smal both good and bad to be iudged according to their workes Thus it is evident and cleere that Hades no where in the â—ew Testament doth signifie properly Hel as you say it doth Thus also that is concluded fully and perfitly which my 2. Reason †Pag. 15 before affirmed that you have not one place at all in the Scripture to prove that Christs Soule was in Hell b Act. â— 2 One place only you have stood vpon that Christs Soule was in Hades but that helpeth you nothing at all as we have seene You must prove indeed that Chriâ—ts Soule was in Gehenna if you would perswade any man of knowledg which you shal never do Gehenna in the New Testament is properly Hell but Hades is never properly so taken as I hope it is sufficiently before proved Therefore the Concluâ—ion is good To thinke that Christes Soule was ever in Hell is a thing that ought to be vâ—terly denyed Yet heere we must consider a maine obiection of yours â—ven those words of our common Creed Touching Câ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 which vsually in English wâ— vtter thus He descended into Hell originally 〈◊〉 is He descended into Hades And in truth this is all that you have to allâ—age for your opinion â—swere But I answer 2. wayes First Admitting then Denying the authority of thâ—se words in our Comon Creâ—d 1. Admitting the authority of these words yet Not as sufficient not as Aposâ—â—hâ—all but such as may be fâ—oÌ„ godly and sound Christians wâ— affirme that we can well vnderstand them according to the Scriptures vse of Hades rightly viz that Christes whole humane Person came vnder the power and Dominion of Death or that he dâ—caying in this world * falling down from that state of life wherein a while he flourished went absolâ—tly from hence into the world of the Dead 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 153. according to the law of nature which all other men follow likewise when they dâ— How this sense doth fully agree also with the mindes of the ancient Fathers generally we have at large dâ—clared c before Pag. 166. Pag. 1â—4 But this serveth not your turne therefore you will needes inioyne vs d 3. Rules to be exactly and prâ—câ—sâ—ly kept in the expounding of these words namely 1. Distinction of matter 2. Consequence of order 3. Propriety of words You must know that we can be no more strict Note nor more religious in observing the Ciâ—cuÌ„stances of matter order even in the holy Scriptures themselves then you inioyne heere to be observed in these words of men Might not these godly men think you misse in som such Circumstance or light point although the Scripture can not Or if they might why impose you such strictnes on our consciences about mens words as if heere were no possibility of any the least missing or imperfection How beit we admit your 3. Rules also 3. Rules and will observe them sufficiently First these words He descended to Hades may very well expresse a Distinction of matter differing from all the words heere besides They naturally and properly signifie as before we shewed that Christ came to vtter decay in this world and being taken hence was gathered in both partes of his Manhood dissolved wholy intirely to those who were departed before him into another world Or ells thus that he came vnder the full power e before Pag. 192. Dominion of Death Now either of these differeth verily from meere and simple Death â—vian â—â—â—â—â—â—ce â—eaâ—h For to Dy propeâ—ly is nothing els but the going a sunder of the Soule from the Body That other is to be wholy razed out from the presence and sight of this world also a remayning vnder the possession and strength of Death and a going to the society of them in another world g. 192. These indeed are f differing points and degrees in Death albeit in effect generally they bee all one with Death that is they be necessaâ—ily consequent alwayes conioyned vnto Death Againe if those wordes in the Creed were only but a more emphaticall phrase of through and perfit Dying and Departing hence if there were in them no further DistinctioÌ„ of matter then so yet this were enough to distinguish them froÌ„ the other words Dead and Buryed This is cause enough especially in the Ancient times when men suppose this Creed was framed when Christs Humanity and naturall Death was by al meanes subtilly and violently oppugned after a short worde signifying his Death and Buriall yet for more emphasis sake and for further Viging the same to addâ— this other short familiar phrase importing no other maine matter then was before noted but only a more effectuall and more absolut signification
to Christ with all the godly in like cases Wherfore Austins sentence will not helpe you heere Pag. 25. m that Christ was troubled not by infirmitie but by his owne power For he meaneth not only by infirmitie but also by his owne will and power or els you coÌ„fute him yourselfe Neither ther is this any reproch to Christ as n Pag. â— you most iniustly insinuat But as it was glorious to him so to debase his Maiestie for our sakes to take our true and perfit Nature yea to bee humbled therein to the most shamefull death of the Crosse so was it also glorious to him to take all the true weaknesses of our nature togeather and so it was his singular good-will towards vs to become throughly like vs and feelingly subiect to all our Calamities paines and miseries to heale vs of them Only in him the guilt and corruption of sinne it selfe was excepted Faine you would o Pag. 2â— wipe away that ArgumeÌ„t of ours which sticketh neerer to you the you will seeme In Malefactors there is a quiet and contented suffering of most exquisit and extraordinary torments oftentimes The couâ—â— and stâ—â—â— of Maâ—â—ctours â—â—â—ments which they indure only by a naturall strength and courage of minde Howe much more likely is it then that Christ the very rock of all strength and fountaine of patience would not thus seeme affrighted and astonished and so wofully behaving him selfe for his meere bodily death and that before it came vnto him All your answer is that this is no fit comparison for the Sonne of God for they are desperate not having any feare or care of God till they feele the force of his wrath in Hell fyre What an answer is this They have no feare nor care of God What then Yet naturally they have feare and care of most bitter paines and namely then when they feele them If you say before they feele them they are so desperate and so hardened by Satan that they care not for any tormentes that in deed is commonly true But what will you or can you alleage to hinder their full and most dreadfull sense of them when they are in them Satan wisheth them not so much good as to benumme them now in their senses so that the cruell paines of death should not trouble them in the time of their death which hee would rather make more fearfull and intollerable vnto them Let them be then in their life time as desperat as they will yet in death and in the middest of most horrible tortures which oftentimes very quietly they indure surely they cannot choose but feele as liuely and as perfitely as other men doe Only it is a naturall boldnes and strength of minde in it selfe no discommendable propertie that sustayneth them in such extreme paines One instance for all may serve in this kinde even that wretched Murderer of the Prince of Orange in Netherland What strange quietnes did he shew in suffering most wonderfull and rare tormentes vntill death Nowe to make our Saviour Christ lesse able or willing to suffer quietly outward tormentes no greater then that wretch and many other such have suffered I suppose is a bad indeavour And it is no vnfit matter for you to thinke more vpon before you skip it over with silence We compare not the Sonne of God with them but are sure that his Humane nature had beyond all comparison more commendable courage boldnes strength of minde patience and contentment even in the middest of his extreamest paines were they but meere bodily then such caytifs had or possibly could seeme to have This that I say pertaineth alike to the Theeves that were Crucified with Christ Of whom the H. Ghost saith a They were togeather in one and the same Condemnation with Christ 〈◊〉 23.40 That is they suffered from men all one and the like tormentes of death adiudged them by the Magistrate except happily Christ suffered lesse then they because they indured them longer then hee did Yet we finde in none of them any such piteous and strange Complaintes and Cryes and Teares as we finde in Christ But to leave these and to come to the patience of Martyrs in their sufferings That also is admirable what ioy what peace what triumph they shew yea how they sing in the middest of frying flames in their rosting on gridirons in their fleaing off their skinnes and tearing of their fleshe by piece-meales with a thousande other of most strange and butcherly torments no lesse if no greater in outward shewe then the sufferings of our Saviour Christ To this you answer If death be not fearfull to the Servants of Christ they are the more bound to their Lord and Maister Who knoweth not that But what answer is this to our argument And you will also give a reason of your saying Because he was the first that by death disarmed death and severed Death and Hell He was surely both the first and the last both α and ω. For he â—â—ly and none with him nor before nor since him conquered Death and Hell Yet what is this to our Reason The effect that Christ wrought is not our quaestion â—he matter 〈◊〉 or Obâ—â—â— and the â—â—iect of his â—â—ffering are 〈◊〉 question but the maner and kinde of suffering whereby hee wrought it You tell vs of the effect which he perfourmed which we gladly acknowledge viz. that Christ did this in deed by his death he made our death since to be no Cursed death but a blessed death But how did he this by suffering nothing but his meere bodily death only or also a Religious feare of Hell All which other godly men doe also suffer and feele which they take passing ioyfully and quietly But thus Christ did not seeme to doe neyther indeed did he in his Agonie Or did Christ suffer some greater sorrow You say The death which Christ suffered when it approched came fast clasped with Hell What meane you by that meane you that Death and Hell both alike came iointly vpon Christ and that both iointly were ordayned of God to seaze vpon him Then it is thesame that wee affirme Otherwise how came they clasped togeather against him By breaking the knot betwixt Death and Hell he could not be so wofully affected and afflicted above measure as he was if he did not suffer by them somewhat extraordinarily Vnto this you have nothing to answer Only you say he severed them and none ells but only the Sonne of God could dissolve them Which we deny not Neither can we see how Death by Gods ordinance might seaze vpon Christ and not the paines of Hel seeing neither of them is in themselves sin but both alike are the due vengeance of sinne which he was ordayned to suffer so far as was possible Why then did he suffer the one and not touch the other Neither yet do you shew that which you take in hand heere how bodily death is contemptible to the Godly which