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A67875 Laudensium apostasia: or A dialogue in which is shewen, that some divines risen up in our church since the greatness of the late archbishop, are in sundry points of great moment, quite fallen off from the doctrine received in the Church of England. By Henry Hickman fellow of Magd. Colledg Oxon. Hickman, Henry, d. 1692. 1660 (1660) Wing H1911; ESTC R208512 84,970 112

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their nature and no more a punishment then to be a child is Unum Necess p. 371 372. Pacif. This is such Divinity as I should never have expected to hear from any but a Socinian for though in a sense Adam might be said before his fall to be mortal in regard he was compounded of matter the princeiple and root of corruption yet that power of corruption was so remote and God gave him such an excellent temper of body that the remote power could never be brought into a proxime and immediate disposition much less into actual death that death could enter any other way then by sin or that ever any one dyed without some respect to sin is so strange that none who reads the Scripture without prejudice can bear it or count it worth confuting Laud We cannot guess at what degree of knowledge Adam had before the fall certainly if he had had so great a knowledge it is not likely he would so cheaply have sold himself and all his hopes out of a greedy appetite to get some knowledge Unum Necess p. 372. Pacif. That man though now become like to the beasts that perish was at first made for knowledge little inferior to the Angels is easily proved his being tempted through a desire to get more knowledge doth not argue him to have been created with little knowledge but with much for who more desirous to gain knowledge than they who have a great deal already Laud If man had not before the fall had a rebellious appetite and an inclination to forbidden things by what could he have been tempted and how could it have come to pass that he should sin Unum Necessar 373. An evil there is upon us and that is concupiscence this also is natural but it was actual before the fall it was in Adam and tempted him p. 374. Pacif. To say there was a rebellious appetite in man before the fall or an inclination to forbidden things is too bold a reflection on the most holy and wise Creator of man nor can there a Protestant be instanced in that hath so spoken except we call the Remonstrants Protestants who make the rebellion of the sensitive appetite to the rational to arise from the very constitution of man insomuch that one of them is not afraid to say that it was in Christ himself because a man Nothing is more easie to conceive then that these inclinations though divers yet are not contrary unless it be where sin hath made an ataxy The Angels did fall though there was in them no sensitive appetite at all and therefore sure it is not impossible that the creature should fall though there be no rebellion in the inferior appetite to the superior But it may be you and I agree not about the nature and effects of Original sin Laud The evil of death descending upon Adams posterity for his sake went no further then till Moses Unum Necess p. 367 Pacif Would you have me think that what you say is agreeable to those words in the second Sermon of the Passion p. 184. Is not sin think you a grievous thing in Gods sight seeing for the trausgression of his precept in eating of one Apple he condemned all the world to perpetual death and would not be pacified but only with the blood of his own Son Land Original sin is not an inherent evil not a sin properly but metonymically i. e. it is the effect of one sin and the cause of many a stain but no sin 2. It doth not destroy our liberty which we had naturally 3. It doth not introduce a natural necessity of sinning 4. It does not damn any Infant to the eternal pains of Hell Fur. p. 475. In Scripture there is no signification of any corruption or depravation of our souls by Adams sin Vn. Necess p. 392. Pacif. Either I understand not Grammar or this is expresly contradictory to the 9th Article Original sin standeth not in the following of Adam as the Pelagians do vainly talk but it is the fault and corruption of the nature of every man that naturally is engendered of the off-spring of Adam whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness and is inclined to evil so that the flesh lusteth against the spirit and therefore in every person born into the world it deserveth Gods wrath and damnation and this infection of nature doth remain yea in them that are regenerated whereby the lust of the flesh called {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which some do expound the wisdom some the sensuality some the affections some the desire of the flesh is not subject to the Law of God And although there is no condemnation for them that believe and are baptized yet the Apostle doth confess that concupiscence and lust hath of it self the nature of sin And I pray you Sir do you not think seeing you say that Original sin is not properly a sin that a man is under no obligation to repent of it Laud Our share of Adams sin either being in us no sin at all or else not to be avoided or amended it cannot be the matter of repentance As Adam was not bound to repent of the sins of all his posterity so neither are we tyed to repent of his sins Neither did I ever see in any ancient Office or Form of Prayer publick or private any Prayer of Humiliation prescribed for Original sin they might deprecate the evil consequent but never confess themselves guilty of the formal sin Unum Necess p. 425 426. No man ever imposed pennance for it So God himself in Nature never did for it afflict or affright the Conscience and yet the Conscience never spares any man that is guilty of a known sin and why the Conscience should be for ever at so much peace for this sin that a man shall never give one groan for his share of guilt in Adams sin unless some or other scare him with an impertinent proposition Why I say the Conscience should not naturally be afflicted for it nor so much as naturally know it I confess I cannot yet make any probable conjecture save this only That it is not Properly a sin but Metonymically and Improperly Deus Justis p. 128 129. Pacif. That no Form of Lyturgy takes notice of Original sin so as to confess it or be humbled for it you will never perswade him who hath the Administration of Baptism in our own Common-Prayer-Book and is it not great pride or uncharitableness or both to say that no mans Conscience did ever afflict him for Original sin never any groaned for it or under it Have all those eminent Protestant Divines that have so often in their Prayers before their Sermons bewailed the corruption that we brought into the world with us been scared with impertinent propositions or did they play the Hypocrites so as to groan where they felt no burden But if you really think that all the Disputations and Questions about Natural Sin and Corruption