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A04491 A dialoge describing the originall ground of these Lutheran faccions, and many of their abuses, compyled by syr William Barlow chanon, late byshop of Bathe; Dyaloge descrybyng the orygynall ground of these Lutheran faccyons, and many of theyr abusys Barlow, William, d. 1568. 1553 (1553) STC 1462; ESTC S101046 40,661 178

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vnto them whych is apartely proued by the oracyō of king Abya Roboams sone laynge to the people charge that they forsoke god made them goldē calues expu●syng the prestes deakons of goddes ordynaunce and instytutynge other after the order of hethē ydolaters Wherto agreeth in defence of mine opinion the generall confessyon of the people with theyr vnyuersall submissiō in knowlege of theyr trespaces recited in sondry places of scripture after thys forme we haue synned with our forefathers we haue done wickedly haue cōmitted iniquite all we haue transgressed thy commaundementes And surelye as the worlde is nowe crokedlye enclyned to malyce yf God sent heades and Prynces accordyng to thedeuelyshe appetites of much people the welth of this region wold be sone subuerted euery state brought to confusion albeit they other wyse coloure it and make as though they ment none harme but rather much deuotion that the vnlearned would haue the Scripture in theyr handes for none other cause but onely to preache secretly to them self for lacke of good preachers abroade But then in dede it appereth that they preach to thē selfe and theyr neyghbours to many an horryble heresye and abuse the scripture to the colorable defence of the same And then are they also to all Tyndals bokes whiche for the manyfolde mortall heresyes conteyned within the same openlye condempned and forbyddē they are I saye yet vnto those bokes so sore affectionate that neyther the condempnation of them by the clergy nor the forbydding of them by the kinges hyghnes with his open proclamations vpon greate paynes nor the daūger of open shame nor parell of paynfull deth can cast thē out of some fond folkes handes and that folke of euery sorte Howe thynke ye then these folke wold haue bene stomaked how many mo wold haue blustred out with them yf the mayntenaūce of the prynces and the states of the realme whych our lorde defende had bene vppon they re syde And where about wolde they then haue gone aboute no great good ye maye be sure Se ye not the vyllayne beggers and valyaūt vagaboundes whom god plageth with pouer te and myserye for theyr abom ynable lyuyng dysposed to no goodnes howe hartely they wysshe for a ruffelynge daye Beholde euery state all moste in euery chrystē realme as husband mē artyfycers marchaunts courtyers with all other degrees as well spyrituall as temporal I fere me that ye shall saye but if god of his goodnes amēde vs the soner there shall come to passe amonge vs the ferefull iugemēt of god spoken by the prophete Osee to the people of Israhell and inhabyters of the lande There is no truthe no mercye nor scyence of god in the yerth Cursynge lyenge manslaughter theft and aduowtrye hathe ouer flowen bloode hathe towched bloode for the which the yerth shall wayle and euery inhabyter in it shall be feebled And this as I haue sayde not one contrey fawty another fawtles one estate fowle and deformed and another pure clene the spyrytualtie synful and the temporaltie set all on vertue the heades rulers culpable the people oute of blame nor that any estate maye laye the hole weight of Goddes wrath vnto the other and therof discharge them selfe but eche of theym is cause both of theyr own harme and other folkes to And the people are nothynge lesse fawtye prouokynge the wrathe of God than theyr heades or gouernours nor one state partyculerlye cause of anothers calamytie But all we together haue synned haue deserued the vengeaūce of God whiche hangeth before our eyes redy to fall ere we be aware N. In this poynt ye haue ryghte well satisfyed my mynde but what remedye now of reconciliacion agayne to God W. Forsoothe I knowe none but onely penaunce I saye not repentyng onely as Luther and Tyndall and these new folkes call it whiche wolde begyle vs make vs wene that we nede no more but onely repente and do no penaunce at all tellynge vs that Christes passion shall stand in stede of al our penaunce though we do neuer so euyl and lyue neuer so longe With this false doctryne they dryue many a soule to the deuyll makynge theym neglygente and take lyttell care or sorowe for theyr synne and so muche the more rechelesse in fallynge to synne agayne But I speake of pennaunce as it implieth both repētaūce of our synnes past the y● sacrament of penaunce wyth ●are sorow and bodely payn afflyccy on taken for our syn wyth prayer almouse other good workes to purchase the more grace that we shuld with recourse to confessyon the sacrament of penaūce dylgently prepare our selues in folowing the exāple ▪ of the Nyniuytes whyche at the preachynge of the prophete Jonas repented wyth ernest purpose of amendynge theyr lyues and dyd penaunce in deede in fastynge and prayer humblynge they re ●owles frome the moste to the least vnto the mercy of god N. wolde our lorde that we had such a prophete sent amōg vs to exhorte vs vnto penaūce as the prophete Jonas was to theym W. That were lyke to the request of the ryche glut tone in hell of whom the gospel telleth which desyred that Lazare myghte be sente to warne hys brethern to whom it was answered that hauynge Moyses the prophetes they shuld gyue credence to theym wher fore seynge that we haue holy scrypture which expresseth the rightwysn̄es of god declaring howe our forefathers were punysshed for theyr synnes yf we refuse to be warned by they re admonycyon truely we wolde be as neglygent to amende yf Jonas raysed frō death to lyfe shulde preache vnto vs. For we haue saynt John baptist a greater prohete than Jonas was cryēg to al sinners Do ye worthy frutes of penaunce of whom Christ wytnesseth that there is none greater than he amonge the chyldrē of womē Also oure saueour Christ hym self of whom saynt John̄ testyfyed that he was vnworthy to lose his shoe latchet preached penaunce sayinge Do ye pennaunce the kyngedome of heauen is at hande And in another place of the Gospell he sayth yf ye do not penaunce ye shall all peryshe And Saynte Peter his vy●ar here in earth vpon whom and whose faythfull confession he promysed to bylde his churche preached likewyse in his fyrste Sermone sayinge Do ye penaūce and be conuerted to God that youre synnes maye be done awaye Also saynt Paule the chosē vessell of God preached fyrste of al to them of Damasco that they shuld be penitent and turne to god perfourming the due workes of penaunce Cōfyrmynge the same when Christ appered vnto the .ii. disciples iorneinge to Emaus he sayd y● after his death and resurrection it behoued penaunce to be preached in his name and remission of sinnes for why the cause of his comynge was not to call ryghteous folk but sinners vnto penaunce And the aungelles of heauen reioyced not so greatly in nynty nyne iuste persons as vpon one synner doyng penaūce
As concernyng the olde testamente God him selfe promyseth in dyuers places that asynner shall be forgyuen hys synnes whensoeuer he wyl do penāce wherfore seig we haue so euident exhortatiōs of scripture mouynge vs to penaunce ▪ and manyfolde warnynges to correct our lyues through the the pacyent suffraunce of god happy are we yet if now atlast ere that it be to late we coulde faythfully saye wyth Job perfourming y● dede lord we haue hard y● wyth our eares therfore we reprehēd our selfs do penaūce N. yet wote I not well what ye call penaunce W. I haue ones told you yet I tell you agayn I call penaūce a chaūge of our lyfe in castyng of y● synfull old man with his dedes and doynge on anew man of vertuous conuersacyon whiche by fayth hope and charyte and the good workes y● come of them as prayer almouse sorow for his synne and payne gladly taken and susteyned for the same is renewed in to the knowledge fauoure of god accordynge to his ymage that made him N. how shuld laye mē come to this knowlege when y● gospell is lockyd fro them W. The gospell of Christe whiche is goddes worde is free and can not be boūde nor kepte frō any Christen man N. By saynt Marye for all that laye people maye not be suffred to haue the newe testament in englysshe whyche I call the gospell W. O ye meane Tyndals Gospell N. In dede though Tyndall was the trāslatour it is the worde of God and the verye same testament whyche ye haue in latyn of the euangelystes puttynge forth W. yetlerned mē and good men haue founden suche fawtes in his corrupt translation that it is for the same well and lawfully forbiden N. if they be good men as ye saye the haue founde it fauty I should reken thē better a great deale which wold amend it W. Though it were amended sufficiently corrected yet wyll I not saye that it is expediente for laye people to haue it considering the time as it is nowe N. Whye ye sayd that the gospell maye not be kept frō christē men W. No more it maye thoughe it be restrayned from the laye people in theyr vulgare tonge For the worde of God whiche is the worde of fayth as Scripture sayth is nere the in thy mouth in thy harte to thintent thou mayste do it N. Than I pray you where saynte Paule sayth that fayth cometh by herynge and herynge cometh by the worde of God how can we haue it without preachynge or information of it by readynge of scrypture W. Outwarde preaching and lyterall redyng of scripture are necessary meanes to attayne vnto the knowlege of the spyrite N. Wherfore then is the Gospell wythholden from the laye people W. I sayd they be two thynges necessarye but I sayde not that both twayne be to euerye man necessary But it is necessarye that euery man haue the tone or the tother and so haue they for they haue the worde of God preched expouned vn to them N. ye as the preistes lyste with false gloses W. Wyth the same gloses that the olde holy doctours sayntes haue made other maner of mē thā Luther Tyndale which now corrupt the trewth wyth theyr false gloses N. But why should not the comē people haue the scrypture them self in theyr own mother tong W Because of theyr abuse makyng of theyr owne gloses many also for theyr vnworthynes accordynge to Christes cōmaundement forbiddynge to cast perles before swyne or to gyue holy thynges to dogges Dyd not saynt Paul forbidde women to speake the worde of god in congregacyons for the auoydyng of abuse and dysorder Also dyd not he and Bar nabas forsake preachyng to the iewes because of theyr vnworthynes N. That is not a lyke case for the text is playn that the iewes wylfully resisted the worde of god and wolde not receyue it But these people are so desyrous that they putte theym selfes in no small ieopardye many tymes for the hauyng of it W. I graunt there be some which of a good mynd are desirous to haue the gospell in theyr mother tōge for the erudyciō cōfort of theyr soules But they that be suche good folk may be wel sufficiently fed with the gospell punched so wyll they rather chese to be than to haue the scrypture ronne in euery rasshe bodyes hande the wold abuse it to their owne harme and other mēnes to For well ye wot many ther be and as it appeareth in Almayne where they haue the scripture translated alreadye the more part and farre the greater multitude are not lesse vnworthye in receyuinge it then were the Jewes in the wylfull resistaunce of Christes gospell whiche couet it onely for the libertie to be free from the exercyse of penaunce and doyng of good workes to rayle and iest of other mennes fawtes wyth out any correctiō of their owne synfull lyues nothyng conformable to the vertue of the gospell whereof to bable manye wordes they are not dombe Marke it there substauncially in cities and townes where ye se the people most ryfest most busye to prate of the Gospell whether they be or not as gret vsurers disceiuers of they re neyboures blasphemous swerers euyll spekers and geuen to all vyces as depely as euer they were This I am sure of and dare boldely affirme that sythe the tyme of this new contencious lernyng the drede of God is greatlye quenched and charitable compassion sore abated Shall ye not se there a cock brayned courtier that hath no more fayth than a Turke lesse christen maners thā a Pagane with lordelye coūtenaūce knauyshe conditions whiche takyng the name of god ī vayne shall vnreuerently alledge the gospell with scoffyng and scornynge in reprehensyon of the clargye where as hys owne ●ewd lyuynge is so vnthryfty that ye can not aspy one good pyont in hym except it be vpon his hosen nor a nynche of honesty besyde his apparayle nor scantly therone neyther beyng al to hacked and iagged wyth dowble weapen redy to fyght and syngle wyt busy to brawle and chyde more lyke a furious tormentour of Herode than apacyēt dysciple of Christ Shal ye not also se there a marchaūt perauēture made a gentyll mā by promocion ere euer that he had a good yemās condicyōs whych gettynge hys chefe substaunce as many do there by vsury false dysceyte of trewe people and other wrongfull wayes wyll take vpon hym to preache the Gospell agaynste the auaryce of relygious persones how they hauyng theyr bare necessary foode ought to parte the resydue of theyr gooddes with pore people where as he hym selfe hath thousandes lyenge by hym in store vnoccupyed and wyll nother help his poore neyghbour nor scarcely gyue a galy halpeny to a nedy creature in extreme necessyte And at theyr belly festig days amonge such of theyr affynyte which are not so wyse nor well lerned as they wolde be sene yf it chaunce them to haue