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A06074 The baynes of Aquisgrane, the I. part & I. volume, intituled Variety Contayning three bookes, in the forme of dialogues, vnder the titles following, viz. Profit, pleasure, honour. Furnished with diuers things, no lesse delightfull, then beneficiall to be knowne, and obserued. ...by Roger Baynes gent. a long exile out of England, not for any temporall respect. Baynes Roger, 1546-1623. 1617 (1617) STC 1650; ESTC S115504 73,346 126

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was but a Childes play and therfore by the Tutor vnto Cyrus it was presently reuoked and so serueth you also but vnto small effect AQVILONIVS I would then know what you will say vnto the sentence of Xerxes King of Asia who to saue his owne life in a Tempest at sea was perswaded by his Pilot to cast ouer board all his chiefe Gentlemen and when he came on shore he ordeyned a Crowne of Gould to be giuen to the Pilot for hauing saued his life incontinently after iudged him to be hanged for hauing byn the cause of the death of so many worthy Gentlemen wherupon I would know what Profit grew either to the State or to the Pilot by this kind of sentence when as the one lamented still the losse of their Nobility and the other with his owne death paid the sauing of the Kinges life FAVONIVS This was no more but the will and fantasie of a King and not any formall sentence giuen by the way of processe and therfore not auaylable AQVILONIVS Let vs then consider this other sentence in the cause of a poore Tyler who falling downe from a house brake his legge and killed another man vpon whom he fell whose Sonne suing for Iustice receaued this Iudgement that he should go vp to the toppe of the same house and fall vpon the Tyler kill him if he could as the Tyler fell vpon his Father of which sentence what Profit I pray you ensued either to the one man for breaking of his legge or vnto the other for his Fathers death FAVONIVS This was but a shift of a cūning Iudge to make an end of an impertinent quarrell with a more impertinent arbitrement and therfore as little to the purpose as the rest before AQVILONIVS What say you then to the sentence concerning an Inhabitant of one of the old Cittyes in Greece who hauing deliuered his Country from a notorious perill was by a particuler Law of theirs to be graunted any one petition he would aske and so he demanding another mans wife had her whose first husband hauing shortly after done such another like seruice to his Country demanded his owne wife againe wherin was giuen this sentence Let the Law take place If the Law do take place said the first husband she is wholy myne for that I haue wonne her and if the Law do not take place then also is she myne because she was myne before Wherunto the second husband replied thus If so the Law take place she is wholy mine because the same Law hath already giuen her me and if the Law do not take place then can she not be thine because thou hast no Law to claime her from me that haue receaued her by the Law Wherupon by a second sentence she was sequestred from them both to the great discontentment of the one the other therfore tell me now if you can what Profit did grow vnto any of them by either of these sentences FAVONIVS This is a kind of Riddle rather then a case of Law and therfore to be reiected with the rest AQVILONIVS What say you then to the sentence that was giuen not many yeares ago at home in our owne Country against the Maiesty of Mary the late most Memorable Queene of Scotland was it not a disprofitable thing to the State to sentēce in such sort such an absolute Princesse as was no way subiect to the iurisdiction of those who gaue that sentence against her FAVONIVS You be now descended indeed into so notorious a case of our owne that may not well be so easily reiected as haue been your other before Concerning the which for as much as my selfe do know certaine good and assured particulers such as may giue you some satisfaction if they might be related I will not therfore sticke to say and affirme vnto you that hitherto at the least no disprofit hath ensued therof neither vnto our State nor vs. AQVILONIVS Do you thinke that Dishonour and vniuersall foule Imputation to haue committed therin such an act of Incongruity as was neuer yet heard of before nor will euer be left to be spoken of to the worlds end do you thinke I say that it is no Disprofit vnto your State FAVONIVS Was she not I pray you found culpable of all the contriued crymes that were brought in euidence against her the which being true as it cannot well be denied what cause then haue you to crie out so much as you do vpon the Incongruity of that Sentence giuen AQVILONIVS Can there be any greater Incongruity then to execute the rigour of the Law vpon one who by prerogatiue is not tryable by the same For either it must be that those contryued crimes you speake of were committed before she came into England or after if before cleare it is that by the Law and Reason of State her absolute Soueraignty acquiteth her therof if after then must you shew if you will try her by English Laws how she came to be depriued of that her Soueraigne freedome of birth the liberty wherof in the cause of a priuate person and much more of an absolute Queene cannot be taken from him without either prescription consent or forfaite but of any such prescription concerning the Queenes Maiesty of Scotland we see no Record of Consent no Act nor any forfait neither yet any such crime committed as might depriue her of her Principality the which remayning in her still how could she who vnder no Positiue Law was borne be brought to be tried and executed in a forraine Country by the rigour of any such Law FAVONIVS She was a prisoner and all prisoners be subiect to their Lawes whose Prisoners they be AQVILONIVS Then Iohn Francis Kings of France the one prisoner in England and the other in Spaine might haue byn brought to the barre of Transgressors and tried by either of those Country Lawes but neither of them were so handled therfore belike the Congruity of proceeding would not permit it FAVONIVS If Congruity as you said would not permit it how happened it then that Charles the first King of Naples did in like manner put to death by sentence of the Lawes of that Kingdome his prisoner Conradine who succeeding the Emperour Fredericke the second in the Dukedome of Swenia made also pretense to the Kingdome of Naples AQVILONIVS This also was houlden for such an Incongruous Act Cùm nec Par in Parem potestatem habet nec inferior in Superiorem Leg. 3. 4. de arbitr as all the world cried out vpon the same And particulerly Robert Count of Flanders Sonne-in-Law to the said Charles did for the great indignity therof run his sword through the Protonotary Robert de Bary who read the sentence of Conradines death He also who stroke off his head had presently after by another his owne head stroken off in the same place And this Act was the more grieuously cōdemned because the said Charles himselfe hauing byn taken prisoner before by the
those men be better that haue no Lawes at all then those that haue good Lawes and do not keep them FAVONIVS The reason is because good Lawes vnkept do in some sort extenuate the ordinary Law of Nature for that with such as haue no written Lawes at all the Law of Nature is seene to be more of force AQVILONIVS In all places where I haue been the Law of Nature is much extenuated for that euery where I find good Lawes inough but very few of them executed except against poore men only wheras the rich by force of their wealth do escape all penalty like as the great flies do passe through the Cobwebs but the little ones not being able do rest intrapped FAVONIVS But do you take this to be the fault of the Law or of those who should better execute the same AQVILONIVS Of the executors therof and not of the Law for that the Law it selfe is always good and profitable if it be executed accordingly FAVONIVS All these things being well considered then how may your ignorant Lawier before mentioned be able by his Ignorance to make any profit to himselfe in the practise and execution of the Law without knowing the same AQVILONIVS His said practise alone if not in the principall Courtes of Record yet in their inferiour Courtes of Iustice wil be able in a little while to teach him so much knowledg of the Law as he may make a competent profit of it FAVONIVS Then you will haue him at the first to sell that vnto others which he hath not himselfe vntill at their charges and also losses his said ignorant practise may haue yielded him both knowledg and profit which were as much to say as for the following of his worldlines to become a publick deceauer and a betrayer of Iustice AQVILONIVS Me thinks you go a little to farre in applying those vndecent Termes vnto such a ciuill way of getting money as is the trade of Lawiers FAVONIVS Then what haue you to say to the words of Laertius Quòd damnum potiù● quàm turpe lucrum ●li●●ndum est AQVILONIVS As much as you can be able to say to the words of Iuuenall Lucribonus odor ex re qualibet Let vs set the Hares head vnto the Goose giblets and so make vp the quittance FAVONIVS I see by this you be apt inough inclined to proportion the measure of honesty by the measure of riches and not the measure of riches by the measure of honesty AQVILONIVS I can tell you that to talke now adayes too much of honesty chiefly amongst young men who attend vnto Profit is a thing that euery where offendeth the stomake and the rather for that to shunne any kind of commodity for scrupulousnes of honesty wil be attributed to folly more then to wisdome FAVONIVS Do you not know that euery commodity bringeth with it her incommodity and that commonly according to the Prouerbe Ill gotten goods are ill spent AQVILONIVS Let them be spent as ill as they will while at the leastwise this I do know well inough that he who speaketh against Commodity and Profit speaketh against Industrie against Sodality yea against Iustice it selfe for that if Iustice were not commodious and profitable who would extoll her to be the Queene of the World according as commonly she is reputed euery where to be ¶ Heere Subsolanus perceauing that Fauonius began to make some shew of wearines said vnto Aquilinius somewhat angerly SVBSOLANVS O sacred Iustice how many be there that doe calumniate thy Name and how few on the other side that do seeke to defend thee AQVILONIVS Aliud ex alio malum there is now another stone fallen into the well which is like to disturbe all the water What cause haue you said Aquilonius to make any such exclamation in fauour of Iustice when as nothing hath yet been spoken that may any way sound to her derogation SVBSOLANVS As though it were no derogation vnto her to be extolled more for the mercenarie Commodity that may be made of her then for her owne proper integrity AQVILONIVS Hould your selfe contented for I haue only made mention of her comformably vnto that her externall part which is most appropriated vnto vs and to our particuler good leauing her internall integrity vnto her selfe as a part of her owne Essence SVBSOLANVS Then belike you take the Essence of Iustice to be made of many mixtures since you impute integrity to be one of them AQVILONIVS Whether integrity be her whole Essence or but a part therof I will not much stand vpon it since vnto me it shall suffice that she be only voyd of passion because the same obscureth the true vnderstanding of Controuersies betwixt partie and party SVBSOLANVS Altogeather without passion she cannot well be for then she should haue in her no anger wherwith to punish the wicked nor yet on the other side no affectionate loue wherewith to incite her to reward the good AQVILONIVS By this it would seeme to follow since you begin to reckon vp appetites that it were requisite also for her to be somewhat suspitious to the end she may penetrate into the malice of all false measures and meanings SVBSOLANVS Your meaning seemeth to be good but your termes agree not therewith since the same appetite or passion which in men of little wit is called Suspition may be called in the wiser sort by the name of Circumspection the which of it selfe may suffice vnto the doing of Iustice well inough betwixt party and party because no Iudge is bound to proceed beyond that which is produced except in Criminall Causes only for that in these it is requisite to proceed sometimes by due coniectures I meane in causes touching life and death at the least touching the preuention of diuers sorts of euills the which might grow too farre if nothing should be attempted against the contriuers therof vntill the commenced crime might be iuridically proued AQVILONIVS If all this be true that in ciuill causes a Iudge hath not to proceed any further by his art then according to the proofe produced and that also in Criminall Causes he may leaue if he will all art a side and proceed by coniectures then as little Law for the getting of his liuing may serue vnto a Iudge as may haue serued our foresaid practising Lawier since naturall reason alone is able still in Criminall Causes to penetrate far inough by coniecture as also to distinguish the right from the wronge in Ciuill Causes when sufficient euidence is giuen on both sides and he not to passe any further then according to the same SVBSOLANVS Then any man that hath not meanes to liue by may counterfait himselfe for his profit to be of what Trade he will and so by little and little ascend vnto the highest degree of his counterfaite profession AQVILONIVS You say very well herein for such is now the practise of the world As for example how many simple Apothecaries haue ascended by that meanes to be