carried to the earth vpon a goodly Béere with great magnificence and pomp the which the Satyrical Poet hath comprised in a few verses speaking of those which through their excesse and for that they follow not the counsayle of the Phisitian and kéepe not good dyet doe kill themselues saying With such like train they march before with trōpe torches bright To guyde the rich man to his graue a goodly gorgeous sight Who on a curious coffin lyes mourners beare his beere And all his friends bewayle his death with sad mourning cheere On the contrary parte if there doe dye any poore man or anye younge childe or man of small callynge they doe bring him simply with a lyttle procession and a small company and the most times in the night for the causes which already before haue bene touched and they hadde but one lyttle Flute Of which among others the Poet Statius doth witnesse it wryting of Archanorus after this manner But when poore men or children dye their buriall is not braue A lyttle Flute doth serue their tourne to bring them to their graue Sith that we are fallen into the talke of the Flute I doe remember an history that Plinie maketh mencion off of a Rauen that was at Rome who had learned to speake insomuch that euery morning he went into the open stréets and saluted the Caesars to wytte Tiberius Germanicus Drusius by their proper names and also the people of Rome For which cause he was so wel beloued that when he was dead the people of Rome put him to deathe that had killed him and made such great sorrow and lamentations that they celebrated funeralls and pompes for him so that he was carryed to the graue vppon a goodly beere very trimly decked adorned the which two Aethiopians or black Moores did beare vpon their shoulders with a great number of garlāds crowns of flowers a Fluter which played vpon the Flute before vntil they came to his graue Thomas Is it possible that the Romaynes who haue ben so greatly estéemed thorow out the whole worlde to haue bene so foolish Hillarius They witnesse it themselues by their owne historyes and you must vnderstand bicause that the deade body was blacke it was carryed by two Aethiopians or blacke Moores as he was But if they had had of lacopins Augustines or Moonkes of the order of Saint Bennet they had bene a great deale fitter for that office and so the Rauens should haue carryed the Rauen to the graue and should haue put him in the Paradise of the Rauens And doubte not that if the Rauens Dogs and Asses had wherewith to bury them and that the Priestes might get so much money from them as they doe from the rich men that they woulde spare them no more then they doe the rich and would haue no more pittie and compassion of their soules then of the soules of men I doe meruayle of nothing but of this that the Romaynes vsed rather the Flute in those funeralls of the Rauen then the Trompette sith that in all the rest he was buryed as solemly as the rich men be And what doe our Priestes If any great Usurer be dead they runne by and by to the great bell There is not a Church nor parishe but that all the belles are walking insomuch that they make a greater noyse then the Cyclopes doe with their Hammers and Mallets I would counsell them to doe as the women of the Lacedemonians did when their king was dead who did runne about the country sounding and tinging of fire pannes pots and basins as men doe after Bées when they swarme for to declare the death of their king After that the belles are once set in order a ringing behold frō all quarters do come Moonks Priests white gray blacke smokid of al colours as Owles and Shrichowles Rauens Eagles Wolues and Dogges doe after carren and they haue no néede to shaue themselues as the Panims doe for to lament and be sorrowfull For they are already shauen of themselues as the Priestes of the Babilonians Aegyptians and the Priestes of Isis are and are clothed wyth lynnen white shirts as they are They doe serue for all In stéede of Minstrells singers wéepers and lamenters And euen as those Panim Minstrells did sing pittifull and lamentable songs and the euill fortunes of men for to comfort the parents euen so haue these our Priestes and Moonkes turned the booke of Iob into suche lamentacions and complaynts Theophilus Neuerthelesse it is concluded in the counsell of Tholet that those which are called of the Lorde from this worlde ought to be carryed to their graue onely with singing of Psalmes the rather to witnesse and declare that they doe not so mourne and lament as the Panims doe then for any other thing and also to declare the hope of the resurrection Hillarius There was more appearaunce in that which the Idolaters did for they did sing in a language vnderstanded of all men if the songs did not serue any thinge to the dead yet at the least they serued somewhat to those that were alyue But the roaring and bellowing of our Priests and Moonkes doe serue neyther for the one nor the other but onely to accroche and gette to them money and to cause it to come as the Birdes to the call except peraduenture they woulde alleadge the reason of Macrobius which sayth the men do accōpany the dead to the graue with singing bicause the panims beléeue after the the soules are seperated from y bodies they doe follow that swéet harmony wyth the same goe vp to Heauen For monye were of the opinion of Herophilus Dicearchus and Aristoxenus of whom Cicero maketh mention who sayd that the soule was not altogether nothing or onely a harmony the which taketh pleasure with that pleasaunt singinge and melody and goeth wyth it And God graunt that these héere doe beléeue the soules to be immortall and that they may haue a better opinion then those had And also as touchinge the torches that the Panims carried ther was some honest cause wherfore For they carried them partly for to kindle woode that was prepared for to burne the dead bodyes withall bicause that when they were come to the place appointed ordained for the same the néerest of kin did take one of those torches and kindeled the fire as Virgile hath sufficiently declared it speaking of the burying of Misenus after this manner In mourning sort some heaue on shoulders hye the mightie beere A dolefull seruice sad as children doe their fathers deere Behinde them holding bronds thē flame vprising broad doth spred And oyles and dayntyes cast and Frankensens the fire doth seede Also in some places they haue néede of them bycause that they doe bury them in the night after the law of Demetrius Phalereus who hath so ordayned it for to correct the superstuous pompe and
men after their death to make Drations in their prayse aswell for the consolation and comforte of their parents as for to incitate and moue others vnto vertue by theire examples For that cause they doe rehearse their prowesses their vertues and valyauntnesse And to make an honest mention at sometime for to encourage others to bée vertuous Thucidides witnesseth that the custome to praise the dead did begin among the Greekes by Pericles who was the first that openly made an oration in the prayse of those which were dead in the warre of Peloponense Also among the Romaines Valerius Publicola was the first which after that manner praysed his companion Brutus as witnesseth Titus Liuius Afterwards that custome hath continued among the Gentiles Idolaters If our Priests would serue vs in that stead the thing would be more tollerable although the we haue the word of God sufficient inough for to merte moue vs vnto vertue honestie But they serue vs to none other ende but to ease and the greatest thoeues and vsurers are those vnto whom they doe the greatest honours and giue the greatest prayses and doe bury them with greatest magnificence But if any poore man doe bye that hath not readye money scant and with muche a doe shall hee haue one Priest sor to beare him companye nor one scant to ringe the lyttle bell Theophilus There is no doubt but the the auncient Christians bicause the some were come of the Iewes some of y panims haue yet hept many of the manners and customes that they vsed in their countryes the which yet neuerthelesse they haue chaunged into a better vse For the Iewes and Panims had many things which of theÌ„selues might be tollerable and to serue to some kinde of honestie and cluilitie if the supersticion and the foolish opinions had bene taken away In the auncient Churche when that any faythfull man was dead béeing constant in the fayth of Iesus Christ and that he made a goodly confession in his death they vsed to make a commemoration to the congregation for to incite and stirre vp others to such faithe and constantnesse and chiefely when he hath bene killed by the Tyrants and that he hath bene the true martir of Iesus Christ in the mids of his torments hath constantlye confessed the truthe and hath witnessed it by his death and sealed it by his bloude For that cause the Notaryes and Protonotaryes were constituted and appoynted who were charged to write truely and after the truth the Ecclesiasticull historyes the lyues and dooings of the holy Martirs true seruaunts of God for the edification of the Church and congregation for at certein times they made commemoration vnto the Congregation of the fayth and constantnesse of the Martirs for to comforte and for tesie the poore faythfull in the middes of the persecutions that they suffered for Iesus Christ to the ende that after the example of the Martirs they shoulde prepare themselues rather to dye valyantly for the witnesse of the truth then to renounce and forsake it And the Dration and Sermon that Saint Ambrose made for the Emperour Theodosius after that he was dead tended to none other ende And when the good auncient byshops praysed after that sorte the good seruants of God that had faithfully trauailed in his worke vyneyard they did go about no other thing by that meanes but to edifie the congregation with good examples euen as the holy prophets and Apostles haue described vnto vs the holy scriptures the liues and actes of holy men which haue bene called of God for to instruct and teach vs by their example This manner of doing was not altogether to be despised and it might be practised to ediflcation if sathan the enemie vnto all goodnesse had not altogether conuerted and turned it into superstition Idolatry and blasphemie as wee see and proue it dayely For from those beginninges the Prothonotaries are descended whome wée haue yet at this present time who keepe onelye the name without exercising the office For to what ende doe they serue vs Hillatius To hunt after and so laye wayte for benefyces What woulde you they shoulde doe woulde you haue them to wrytte and register the lyues of our Popes Cardinals Byshoppes Priests and Moonkes They will leaue the charge of that vnto the Lutheriaus whiche are their protonotaries for to describe and paint out the legend of such saints and Martyrs of Venus rather then of Iesus Christe For theyr lyfe and conuersation is so holy that they had rather that men woulde neuer speake of it and that the remembraunce thereoff shoulde bée altogether defaced and forgotten Yet I thincke that they rendered no greate thanckes vnto Platine who hathe wrytten so muche althoughe that he tourned the sayest side outwardes as nigh as hée coulde Theophilus Thys is yet the leaste faulte of the Prothonotaries But from that same fountayne is risen and sprong vp the errour of inuocation of Saints of feasts wanderings blessings relycks pilgrimages and all other Idolatry and supersticions which men do commit dayly about the Saints For wheras in the auncient Church men did but onely make mention of the lyfe faith and constantnesse of the Martirs and Saynts when the people assembled themselues in the Ecclesiasticall assemblyes without inuocating or praying to the Saynts but onely vnto God Afterwards in processe of time the supersticious and Idolatrous Christians haue made of the Saynts Gods and haue dedicated to them Feasts Temples Aultars and Chappell 's And haue begonne to sing Himnes and supersticious songs in their honour prayse after the same manner as the Panims and Idolaters did to their Binges and Emperours when they Caâ—onized them And are not content to preach their lyues and Legende as the auncients did but haue added vnto it fables and lyes and haue made to them Masses in such sort that for one supper of Iesus Christ we haue more then thrée hundreth nullyons of Masses all contrary and differinge the one from the other By that meanes the Prophecie the preaching of the worde of God the Supper of Iesus Christ Prayers and Ecclesiasticall assemblyes and the true commemoration of the Saints are altogether abolyshed in such sorte that there is nothing but that it is altogether peruerted and tourned into more greater superstition and Idolatry then euer it was among the Panims As much happened about the other faythful that dye which are not counted for Canomsed Saynts For as on the one side they are giuen to inuocat pray to the Saynts whom they beléeue to bée in Heauen Euen so on the other side they giue themselues to praye for the deade whom they thinke to haue yet neede of their prayers and good deedes for to helpe them and to prepare the waye to Heauen â—â— steede of the simple commemoration y they did in y auncient Chruch without vsing praiers for the health of their soules but
they cannot agrée together and it is impossible that the one can endure continue with the other sith that the one purgeth without money through the onely grace of God and the other is an insatiable goulfe which melteth consumeth all the golde siluer of the world neither purgeth it the sinnes but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation Hillarius I doe compte him to be foolish mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell then to receiue Paradise fréely which shal cost him nothing Thomas In hearinge you speake I am greatly estonied to see how men haue chaunged their nature For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise if it coste nothinge then to buy the bad very deere or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money Theophilus And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues and to lose both their bodies soules and goodes For they are mad to runne after the priests for to buy death and refuse life which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ Hillarius I beléeue it well behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men who doe liue vpon that fire haue endcuoured themselues as much as lyeth in them to quench out altogether the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ which quencheth putteth out theirs bicause that it is more vehement and more violent and consumeth it into Asshes Thomas Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say and that there remaineth nothing whole Theophilus There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine which are not yet all burned But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all into Asshes for that is a fire which none can quench Hillarius I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it Whereto serueth their holy water wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his vertues as well as against the lightninges tempestes when they coniure them Theophilus They do cleane contrary For euery one runneth to the fire to the fagots to the brimstone to the lights to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne And they are so hot after it that there is neyther King Prince Lord Bourgis Merchaunt or Labourer whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire to cast on fagots in such sort that it is become so great that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée aliue Thomas Can they quench it by that meanes Theophilus You are not deceiued hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God No but they doe kindle it dayly more and more Hillarius I know the cause wherefore they doe it They do greatly feare least those Lutherians and heretickes should not be dampned and that they should not go into hell sith that they denie the Purgatory and that they will not enter therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world and to purge them from their sinnes to put them in Paradise against their wils They doe well declare thereby that they differ from the Persians who will not burne the dead bodyes as the Greekes Latines do bicause they hold the fire as a God and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies and to nourish him with flesh But these héere do giue him none other meat but do sacrifice to him men as the Idolatres dyd God Moloch Pluto Saturnus and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe But one maye replye vnto mée and saye that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh Theophilus I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that as I am to sée how they make the princes lords their hangmen putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed Hillarius They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those who sayde vnto Pylate speaking of Iesus Christe we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye But it is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death And therefore they praye ayde of the seculer power the whiche men dare not refuse I doe thincke that many Princes Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander against the Bactrianians The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde and did thincke it to be the best burying For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians hée endeuoured himselfe to reforme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime But he could neuer take order to reforme it but to the contrary as witnesseth sainct Hierome they did rise againste him in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo For that cause I thincke that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy called the dogges the Chanons of mount Faucon as I haue heard him oftentimes say in his lessons Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh it is no meruaile though men do feare them that they féede them deintely as they doe in Hircania For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs besides those that are kept fed commonly in euery towne village Theophilus I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them sith the they wil set no good order according to the power that God hath giuen vnto them I do greatly feare that in the ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether For they haue already wel begun Hillarius Me thincks that they take the Pope for Moloch Pluto or Saturne whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men The Pope woulde bée called our holy father but that is such a father as Saturne was who did eat his owne children if the Poets haue not lyed but yet Rea his wife hid them from him and kept them the he should not eate them But the court of Rome the papisticall Church who would be called our holy mother Church doth
to mingle it with a little wine then with salt as the Priests do in their holy water Eusebius They do it not for to drincke Hillarius I beléeue it well for they are not so deintie they loue the wine as well as I. But wherefore doe they it Thomas For to deface purge the sinnes by the sprinckling thereoff Hillarius I am ashamed of their folly One may very well say vnto them as Diogenes said vnto a certeyne Panim who sprinckled himselfe with water for to purge his sinnes after their auncient manner O miserable man saith he if thou hast sâ—â—led in thy Grammer and committed a fault and incongruite thou canst not be absolued w sprinckling of the water how dost thou then thinck with the sprinckling of the water to be absolued and washed from thy sinnes Thomas It séemeth vnto me that if you haue such great thirst as you say you wil not begin to enter into a new matter for to make vs fast any longer Theophilus Admit it were so that we had a day of fasting For it is now Lent although it were not yet I do beléeue that Eusebius would haue fasted peraduenture Thomas also And when we shal be all vnder the Popes religion we must theÌ„ fast the Lent al out or els at the leastwise a great part thereoff Hillarius It is true and it is better for vs to fast at libertie then through compulsion But sith that ye be all of that minde let vs goe then to dinner ¶ Finis primi Dialog THE SVMME OF THE seconde booke SIth that we haue already declared in the first Dialogue the agreeing of the Platonicall Poeticall and Papisticall Purgatory and the diuers manners of purgations that haue bene aswell among the Panims as the Christian Idolaters and howe all those things were inuented by the Priestes for to serue their auarice and rapacitie the which was more greater in them then it was euer in others Now we wil bring in declare and sette foorth perticulerly their other practises the office which thei do for the dead how at the funeralls burialls mortuaries they follow more the errours and abuses of the Panims then the examples of the true seruaunts of God aswell in their singings and lamentacions that they make for the deade as in torches lyghtes belles ryngings and sepultures Therefore I haue intituled this Dialogue The office of the deade In which also we will declare what is the honour that is due vnto the deade what ought to be the burialls funeralls and the sorrowing of the Christians what hath bene the beginning in making coÌ„memoration prayers for the dead Also we will declare the principall poynts of the Masse of Requiem that they doe sing for the dead and wee will proue by their owne words that they doe pray rather for the Saints and Saintes and for those that are in Paradise in ioye and celestiall rest then for those which are in paynes be it in Purgatorie or in any other place according to their owne doctrine and how by their owne praiers they sufficiently testifie and witnesse that in their doctrine there is nothing that is certeine and that they holde not those whome they doe iudge to be in Purgatory as assured of their saluation It shal be also declared what is the true Purgatory of Iesus Christ and the true satisfaction of the Christians towards God for their sinnes and how the Papisticall Purgatory and satisfactions doe disagree altogether from the promises of god the remission of sinnes by Iesus Christ It shal be declared in lyke maner for what cause God doth chastise and punish the faythfull in this world and not in the other what are the good workes and wherefore God will iudge men by them and how we must watch and do penaunce and trauayle whilst we are in this lyfe without trusting vppon the good deedes that other will doe for vs after our death Item what are the good deeds that we ought to doe for the dead and wherein we may succour helpe them and the great iniury wrong that the Popes and the Priestes doe vnto Iesus Christ and to all the Christian people holding them in the sincke and dungeon of their peruerse doctrine and traditions What fishermen they are and what their flouds and ryuers are wherein they fish and catch the golde and siluer and not the men what are their relicks and holy bodyes and how they do abuse the dead bodyes to the great dishonour of God and of his Saints as the Coniurers and Sorcerers doe And wherto serueth all that which is done at the burialls and chiefely to those which are buried in the habite or coole of Saint Fraunces And in the ende we declare how Iesus Christ contayneth in himselfe all that which is needefull for vs both in lyfe and death For to enter then into the matter Theophilus bringeth the other in order THE SECOND DIALOGVE which is called the office of the dead THeophilus You did erewhile complayne bicause that in speaking of Purgatory wée were so affectioned after it that it hav almost made vs to forgette our dinner But now I doe feare very much the contrary that the dinner doth make vs forget purgatory and the residue which yet remained to be thought on Hillarius You know very well that the Priestes haue accustomed to breake their fast and to eate the soppe in the wyne in the middest of their Masse Wherefore it were good reason that we did pause a lyttle in the middes of our Masse for to breathe our selues For we haue sayd and sunge inough for the dead for to drinke once And yet wée are more beneficiall vnto them then the Priestes For wée haue not dronken vppon their costes and expences Thomas Therefore you are so much the soberer For me thinkes that you haue not druncke very much according to that that you say you were a thirst Hillarius I toke that which sufficed me and no more and was content For it doth to me more good then all that which the Priestes and Moonkes haue eaten and dronken in the name of the dead doth profite the dead It is already longe since that I would haue brought in for you that but I doe alwayes wayte when that Eusebius would beginne But I know very well that the dinner hath a lyttle abated his choler and that the aduice and counsayle of Seneca is good who counsayleth those that are subiecte to ire choler not to fast nor to take in hande any wayghty matter if they do finde themselues by experience to be more enclyned to wrath before they haue eaten then after bicause that hunger increaseth it the more Eusebius Therefore doe you breake your fast so willyngly in the morning and are so much afraide to fast You must not impute my choller vnto fasting but to your importunate and wicked tongue For he must haue great patience which would not be moued to wrathe through your
ende that by them you shoulde satisfie for your sinnes or that you shoulde merite the kingdome of heauen and bée iustyfied For the faythfull man hath obteyned alreadye all that by the fayth of Iesus Christe whiche is our wisedome ryghteousnesse sanctification thorowe whose merite Paradise is gyuen vnto vs For that cause the holye Apostle calleth the eternall lyfe the gift of god Wherefore wée maye vnderstande that we meryte it not thorowe our good déedes but it is gyuen vs froelye thorowe Gods lyberalytie Euen as the Fathers enheritaunce is gyuen vnto the sonne not for that he hath deserued it but bycause that hée pleased hym so for that hee loued him and that hée is hys chylde and wyll gyue hym his goodes fróely Otherwyse grace shoulde bée no more grace but debte On the contrary when Saynct Paul did speako of the eternall death hée calleth it the wages of sinne declaringe thereby that man hathe well deserued it and that hée can deserue none other thinge but that that wages is due vnto hym for a recompence of the seruice that hée hathe done vnto the Diuell the Prince of this worlde euen as the wages which is payde vnto a souldyer for bearynge of weapons vnder hys Capitayne Wee 〈◊〉 then sée that the woorkes done by the chyldren of God and the seruice that the Angelles dooâ— vnto hym doe tende all vnto one ende to witte to glorifie GOD and to sanctyfie his name Euen as then the Angelles serue not GOD for to merite Paradyse of whiche they are alreadye in possession neyther for satisfaction of theire sinnes of whithe they are not entangled But onelye for the loue that they haue in GOD and the desyre of hys glorye so Gods electe doe regarde none other thinge for they are alreadye washed and purged from theire sinnes by the bloudâ— of Iesus Christ and they re hearte puryfied by the faythe in hym and thorowe the woorde that they haue hearde of hym And are already possessors of the kingdome of heaueÌ„ in hope the which is no lesse sure and certeine then if the thinge were present and that the Angels are assured of that that they haue Therefore the holy Apostle sayth that wee are saued thorowe hope and that Iesus Christ doth make vs sitte in the heauenly places And therefore when God doth chastise and cortect vs in this worlde that is as the Apostle also writeth vnto the Corinthians for to correct and chastise vs that we should not be damned wyth the worlde and the Infidels bicause that we are yet in the waye and capable of chastisment and ainendement But there is an other reason after thys lyfe héere when wee are out of the waye and néede and that wee cannot any more empayre nor amend And therefore the Lorde doth chasten vs héere as the good Father who beateth not his sonne for to haue any recompence thereby for the faulte that hée hath committed For the paine of the childe bringeth no profite vnto the Father Also he doth not beat him through rigor nor throughe mallice that hée hath to take vengeaunce of him For hée loueth him as his childe and the fatherly affection maketh him soone forget the faultes and iniuries that he hath done vnto him As it is cleerely shewed vnto vs in the Father of the prodigall childe Eusebius What hath the father then to do to chastise him Theophilus If hée knewe that he woulde neuer doe any more fault he would soone pardon him without any punishment But fearing least thorow his great patience â— gentlenesse shoulde fall agayne hee is constrained to beate and chastise him although that he doe it not willingly but it to that ende to make hym more prudent and wyse and to better aduise himselfe in time to come and that he take diligent heede not to sall againe in y fault or in any other greater The which is no more to be feared in those whome GOD hath called from this worlde Wherefore they cannot anye more rectius punishment whiche shoulde be to câ—nâ—en them as is y same of the father towards his child for to amend him But if there hée a punishment it is rather to declare the iudgement the seuerity of God towards the wicked and reprobates and to manyfest his goodnes and mercy towardes his elect As the Iudge doth condemne the traytor murtherer and other malefactors that haue deserued death not for to haue any recompence nor those vnto whom they haue done wronge and iniury For what recompence can they haue by their deathes neyther do they it for to cause them to walke in time to come more vprightly sith that they take from them their life But for to satisfie righteousnes and to mayntaine it to that end that other may take example and that they may know how auayleable it is to haue followed vertue and eschewed vice Eusebius To what purpose then doth Sainct Iohn in his reuelation say Their works do follow them what workes do follow them but the good déedes that men doe for them after their death For those that they haue done whilest they lyued went before not after Wherefore it followeth that there are some other which do profit them Theophilus Sainct Iohn speaketh it bycause that their workes do beare witnes that they are the children of god He sayth not other mens workes but theyr owne workes For as man lyueth of his owne soule and not of the soule of an other mans euen so doth the righteous man of his faith And as the righteous man lyueth of his faith not of the faith of an other euen so shal euery one be iudged according to his workes and not after those that other men shall doe For it is written Euery one shall beare his owne burthen And therefore Iesus Christ sayth by thy worde thou shalt bee iustified and by thy wordes thou shalt be condemned That is so saye thy wordes and thy workes shal beare witnes of thy heart and by them thou shalt bée iuslified that is to saye absolued declared and pronounced iust and righteous Oâ— by them thou shalt be condemâ—ned knowen and iudged worthy of death and condemnation Not that God néedeth any witnes of our workes for to know whether we are worthy of absolution or condeÌ„nation For he knoweth y hearts néedeth none other witnes but his owne But y scripture vseth such maÌ„ner of speaking for to apply it to our capacitie for to manifest declare vnto vs better the Iust IudgemeÌ„t of god which wil shew foorth y hâ—pecriâ—e of maÌ„ heart For maÌ„ how wicked soeuer his heart be he wold alwaies hide it if one put it to his own coÌ„â—câ—éce although y he do condemne it he wil not for y leaue off to aduasice brag he y le an honest man vntil such time as he he také with his wicked déed as y theefe with his steaâ—ing For he is so peruers wicked
hope either to merit or not to merit and a place to do good or euill as in this mortal life and to be damned or saued Eusebius There is great difference For in this life man may merit or not merit of him selfe But after he is dead he can do no more for him selfe but others may do it for him And the merites of those that bee alyue doe serue him to saluation Theophilus And so by that meanes Iesus Christe shal be a Sauiour neither of the lyuing nor of the dead the merite of his death and passion shall saue neither the one nor the other but the lyuing shall saue themselues during their life and after their death others that shal be thē alyue shal saue them especially the Priestes and Moonks By that meanes we haue many sauiours and men should neuer be certaine nor sure of their saluation neither before their death nor afterwards whiche is a thing altogether contrarie to the doctrine of the scriptures Eusebius And if I would maintaine that those which are in hell can be somewhat deliuered from the pains theroff eyther by the prayers and good déedes of the liuing or bicause of the good deedes that they themselues haue done during their life that should be a strange thing vnto thée What wouldest thou aunswere to that Haue wee not the witnes of a great many histories and good doctours worthy to be beleeued which certefie vs how that Sainct Gregory deliuered Traianus the Emperour from the paines of hell who notwithstanding did put to death many of the Christians and namely Sainct Ignacius the discyple of S. Iohn the Euangelist It is in like manner written in the life of the fathers that Sainct Machaire deliuered a priest being a Panim who affirmed vnto him that he was damned And in the life of sainct Brandon we read that hee did sée Iudas which walked by the meadowes of whom he asked the cause wherefore he was not in hell who aunswered him bicause of the good deedes that he did in his life time he had therefore some solace and comfort Theophilus If Thou canst no better confirme my sentence nor better proue that your doctrine is altogether vncerteine variable inconstant and gamesayinge it selfe For hast thou not alreadie confessed vnto me that the priestes do not praye for the dampned bicause that there is no deliuerance from hell and from the fire of hell Consider I pray thée how that agreeth with those goodly fables with that which thou meanest now to speake off Eusebius If you had read diligently the bookes of the good auncient doctors and especially of Saint Thomas you might easely make all these places agrée For they do alledge foure opinions reasons for to satisfie suche doubts The first is that Traianus was raysed thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory and that he dath done penance in this life thorowe the which he meryted grace and pardon of his sinnes Wherefore he is dead in the grace of God and hath bene saued and this is the best allowed opinion of the doctors The second is that the soule of Traianus was not simplye deliuered from the paine and fault thereof but that his paine was suspended and delayed vntill the daye of iudgement and afterwardes shal be saued The thyrd opinion is that Gregory deliuered him not from the place of hell but from the paine The fourth which is also best allowed among all the other that the soule of Traianus was deliuered from the paines of hell and hath obtayned mercie thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory the which thing was done not after the common law but after the disposition and dispensation of the wisdome and prouidence of God who did foresee that Sainct Gregory should pray for him Wherefore it hath not dampned it by or through diffinitiue sentence but by a sentence suspenciue The which thing hath bene a perticuler priuiledge For Sainct Hierome saith that the priuiledges are but for a fewe people and not for all For the priuiledges of a fewe are not lawes common to all And the things which go out of square from the common lawe ought not to bee drawen into a consequence Hillarius I thinke that that is the priuiledge whiche is written in the Aeneados of Virgill the which Cyble recited speaking to Aeneas after this manner Then prophet Cyble said O borne of bloud of heauenly kind Thou Troyan Duke the way that leads to hell is light to finde Both nights and dayes the doore of Limbo blacke doth open gape But backward vp to climbe and free to Skies est soones to scape Their woorkes their labour is few men whom equall loue did loue Our vertue pearcing all did to the starres aduaunce aboue Beholde the priuiledge of that good doctor whiche peraduenture Iupiter in whom Traianus did beléeue granted vnto him Theophilus I do greatly meruayle both of Thomas of Aquin and of other questionarie doctors whiche haue taken suche great paines for to couler and set foorth a fable It must be that they haue had very much leasure and that they were not muche occupied about other better affaires They would sooner haue giuen a more true and certeine solution if they had by and by answered that they receiued not such fables as some of their owne secte haue done namely our maister Iohn Maioris the Scotte the whiche I haue heretofore heard reade in the Colledge of Mountaigu Hee reiecteth without making anye doubt both the history of Sainct Machaire and also that of S. Brandon As touching that same of Traians although that he alledge the common solutions of other doctors yet neuerthelesse he first doth aunswer that he knoweth not from whence that history had his first beginning the which hath no certaine author not withstanding that some doe attribute it vnto Iohn Damascenus But how shoulde hee haue written it sith that according to their owne witnesses and chronicles he raigned long time before that saint Gregory lyued and was dead before that Sainct Gregory was borne For their chronicles do witnes that Damascenus florished in the years of our Lord 440. And that he was very familier with the Emperour Theodosius The which yet neuerthelesse I beléeue not For by that account he had lyued in the time of Sainct Ambrose neuerthelesse there is great differēce betweene his bookes and these of Sainct Ambrose For these of Sainct Ambrose are a great deale purer keepe a great deale better the puritie of that aunciēt church But peraduenture they meane the young Theodoseus which rayned after Honorius Although that it be so by their owne Chronicles he was before the time of Gregory about 152. yeares For they do write that Gregory reigned in the yeare 592. Hillarius It must néeds be then that either the Chronicles are false or the witnes of those the do make Damascenus the author of that fable Except peraduenture they will say that thorow the spirite of prophecie he hath
deade which were truely Christians And hath commaunded that the Priestes ought to make commemoration of them Dne may very well presume by that aduertisement and commaundement that which Gregory made vnto Boniface touching this matter that it is not long agoe that the Masse hath begonne to bee a sacrifice for the dead and that the institution is not so auncient as some men do thinke it to bee at the least-wise that Iesus Christ and his Apostles haue not bene the author thereoff For Boniface would not haue kept it secret in that time Wherefore I giue more credite vnto those whiche haue written that Pope Pelagius hath bene the author inuentor and promoter of those suffrages and prayers the which we sée dayly yet in vse amonge the Christians and we call them the good déedes for the dead then to any of those which haue followed the Apostles Eusebius If you had reade ouer and ruminated the auncient doctors of the Churche you shall not finde that doctrine so newe but you woulde speake otherwise and should know that the Churche hath followed it of long time before that Pelagius or Sainct Gregory were borne Wherefore then did Sainct Ambrose make mention writing of the death of the Emperour Theodosius of the first seuenth thirty and fourty day that the Churche did celebrate making remembraunce of the dead and for what cause they did the same of whome the wordes are written in the decrées after this manner Bicause that some haue vsed to obserue the thirde caye other some the seuenth and others the thirty in the office of the dead Let vs consider what thing that lesson in the scripture teacheth vs It saith After that Iacob was dead Ioseph commaunded his seruants that they should bury him And the children of Israel buried him and the forty dayes beeing accomplished for so were the daies of the burial compted they lamented seuen dayes We ought to follow that solemnitie the whâ—che the holy scripture describeth vnto vs It is also written after this manner in Deuteronomium that the children of Israel lamented Moses and did wepe thirty dayes and then the mourning was ended heth those two obseruations haue then authoritie by the which the necessary office of piety and humanity is accomplished Doe you not sée here plainely by the words of Sainct Ambrose that already in his time the Churche did the office and commemoration of the dead and did celebrate in their memory certaine dayes and yet the auncients haue not instituted them after the inutation and example of the Panyms and Idolaters as you say and affirme but after that imitation of the auncient Patriarkes and Prophets and of the people of God Theophilus I am abashed I knowe not whether I shall speake it of the ignorance mallice of your doctors For if they vnderstande that Saincte Ambrose hathe allowed that which they at this day do vphold and maintaine they do greatly erre and shewe themselues to be verye ignoraunt Also if they vnderstand his intention and meaning they are very malicious and wicked to peruerte and marre the sence of the same for to maintaine their abuses and alwayes the more to kéepe the poore people in errour Firste they well perceiue and sée that Sainct Ambrose maketh no mention neither of Purgatory nor of Masse for the dead and that that place cannot serue but for the sorrow that men take for the dead For yet in that time the Churche approched néerer vnto the puritie of the primatiue Churche and was not so muche corrupted as she hath bene afterwards sithence the time of Pope Pelagius and of Gregory the greate This then that he maketh mention of the first seuenth thirty and forty daye in his booke and sermon that hée made of the death and buriall of Theodosius is not set forth by him for to nourishe and holde the pepole in the supersticions of the Panyms as you doe but rather to draw them backe from it and for to induce and leave the Christians vnto more greater honesty and modestye to the sorrowe that they ought to haue for the dead For that cause did he propound and set foorth the example of the Israelites not that he woulde thereby make a law vnto the Christian people that they shoulde mourne seuen thyrty nor forty dayes bicause that the Israelites haue mourned so many dayes for lacob Moses Aaron and Marie their sister yet lesse for to cause Masses to be said and to banket and make the priests broken as they do dayly at the Portuaries and Anniuersaries For then he should teache the Christian people to playe the Iewes and sinne against the Christian liberty if hee woulde of all the examples of the Scripture and of the thinges done by the Israelites draw out take lawes and statutes for to commaunde them vnto the Christian people as necessarie and ordeyned of god For first of all God neuer hath defined nor determined by his lawe certaine dayes nor yet to lament and mourne for the dead nor for to make any commemoration of them as it appeareth very well by the examples asore alledged For the Israelites themselues haue not kept a certaine number of dayes at the mourninge of Iacob Moses Aaron and of Marie For they did kéepe Iacob in Aegypt fortie dayes after that hee was enbaumed and the Aegyptians bewept him Ixx dayes He was carried into Hebron afterwards his sonnes bewept him seuen dayes in Atad But Moses Aaron and Marie their sister were beewept euerye one of them thirty dayes Thou doest see alreadie here that they are not very superstitious in the dayes and that some time they haue vsed eyther more or lesse It should séeme that their ordiuary was but for seuen dayes For it is written Seuen dayes do men mourne for him that is dead but the lamentation ouer the vnwise shoulde endure all the dayes of their life But when it is for some noble personne as for a Prince or a Prophet or anye man of great estimation and renome they woulde of custome prolonge theyr mournynges vntyll thyrtie dayes But they woulde not wyliyngly passe béeyond it as wée sée here in these three examples of Moses Aaron and Marie who were bewept and lamented of the people of Israel asmuche and more then anye other euer were The mourning of Iacob was a little more loÌ„ger bycause he was carried to be buryed a great way and that they carried him from the land of Aegypt into the land of Canaan not that they esteemed the land of Canaan more holy then that of Aegypt as touching his nature or that it had any more vertue for the health of the body or soule of him that was buryed there as the superstitious Christians and poore ignorant do iudge of the earth in the churchyarde bicause that it was blessed and halowed by their Bishops and Priests But they did that for to witnes in the article of the
a wise man doth not afflict nor lament himselfe too much when he looseth his children or his friends but beareth their death with such a stomack and heart as he would doe his owne For that cause amongst others was Anaxagoras praysed who without any trouble to himselfe answered vnto him which brought hun tidings of the deathe of his sonnes Thou tellest me of no new thing nor a thing but that I ahue longe looked for it For I knew very well that he whom I engendred was mortall Thomas When I doe heare spoken of the constancie and modestie that the Panims haue shewed in the death both of them and of their friendes I am greately ashamed of vs christians who haue so great feare and doe make such noyse and torment our selues after the dead Hillairus Thereby we declare that we are very ignoraunt and effeminated And therefore the Lycians did apparayle them with womwnes apparell when they did mourne and lament to the ende that they should bée moued thorow that deformitie of apparell and thereby constrayned to cast downe all that foolish sorrow Declaring by the same that they accompted it folly to lament and wéepe For that cause Lycurgus did not permit to the Lacedemonians but eleuen dayes to mourne and lament in and after at the twelfe day they must cast it downe after that they had made a sacrifice vnto Ceres Uppon that matter ahth Plutarch written that all things not accustomed nor vsed were applyed vnto those that dyd lament and mourne And therefore the men went foorth openly hauing their heads couered the woemen vncouered and shorne or altogether polde agaynst the order of nature that being ashamed of such desormitie they should be constrayned she rather to moderate themselues and the better to banqutsh and ouercome their affections And whereas the Romaines prescribed a yeare full out vnto the woemen for to mourne was not for to compell them to lament and mourne so long time but to moderate and correct them to the ende they exceeded not measure And therefore the widowes did cary the signes of sorrowfulnesse being apparayled with blacke and wearing white kerchiefes vppon their heades as the Papists doe at this day The which thinges ouid hath comprised in a fewe bearses speaking of the yeare ordayned by Romulus after this manner When funeralls were once fulfilde the wise with ruthfull cheere His husbands death dyd wayle the want the space of one whole yeere And the Poet Statius sayth also The woemen weare in their attire the haue of blacke and white To represent the difference betwixt the day and night And it was not lawfull for them to marry before that those tenne moneths were expired except the had a dispensation of the Senate and Counsell as wée haue vsed to take of the people For Numa Pompilius of the same made a law the which did condempne the widow which maried before that the terme and lawfull tyme was accomplished to sacrifice a Cow with calfe Not that he estéemed that it was a sinne worthy of great punishment in marrying hir before that terme but had regarde to the honestye for two causes The first was bicause that it was not honest for the woeman but very much contrarye vnto the shamefastnesse and naturall modestye which oughte to be in hir to marye agayne so soone and before that the féete of hir first husband as the common Prouerbe is be throughly colde The other cause is for to conserue and kéepe the lynage and generations without minglyng them and destroying the séedes For it may so chaunce that the woman shal be with chilce by hir first husbande and she shall not know it so soone Neuerthelesse when there is any person of great callyng the Senate and Counsell would dispense with him as it appeareth at the maryages of Anthony and Octauia who by the authoritie of the same were allowed notwithstanding that Octauia did mourne for C. Marcellus Theophilus It is most certeine that it lyeth not in mans power to make a law which is repugnaunt and agaynst that which the Lorde hath sayde by his Apostle Hée that cannot abstaine let him mary to the ende that none do put any snare about the necke of any man put his soule in daunger Therefore sayth he it is better to mary then to burne For that cause let vs not make a law for to bynde any man and to take from him his libertie in such things but let vs leaue y vnto euery ones discression following the customs most allowable Yet neuertheles it is requisite whatsoeuer infirmitie of the flesh that one can alleadge that one haue alwayes reason of honestie and Christian modestie For that cause friende Eusebius haue wée propounded vnto thée so many examples and sentences both of the holy scriptures of auncient Doctors and also of the Panims to that ende that thou maist the more cléerely know what hath bene the custome of the auncient Israelites and of the Panims and of the first Christians also what hath bene their mourning what daies they haue dedicated for the same for the dead and for what cause and how the auncient Doctors haue written and to what intent and how much the Christian religion hath degenerated frō his auncient puritie insomuch that it is not worthy to cōpare them in such things I say not vnto the auncient Iewes but vnto the Panims themselues which haue had some iudgement honestie And yet neuerthelesse S. Hierome doth desire that the christiās should be yet more sober in such things then y auncient Israelites whose maner of doing he praysed not greatly which they haue vsed towards the dead But he excuseth them bicause that they had not yet receyued so amply the lyght and knowledge nor the accomplything of the promises of God so amply so excellently as we Wherefore he would that we should be a great deale more moderate and that we should declare more lyuely the hope that we haue of the resurrection But if we can doe no better nor be more perfect then they let vs not be at the least more imperfect and lette vs not doe worse after the manner of the Papists who are mroe to be rebuked in those things then any people that euer was vppon the earth Wherefore it were better friende Eusebius that we should reduce our selues to the imitacion of the Apostolicall Church then to continue alwayes in our folly and madnesse vnder the colour of a word or two that we finde eyther in Ambrose or in some other auncient doctor for want of well vnderstanding them And it shal be a great deale more conuenient and meeter for vs to follow the example of Dauid who mourned lamented for his childe all the while that he was sicke and whilest that he was yet alyue not after that hée was dead For which all those of his house were much abashed For whilest that the childe was yet
vse in the censecration and halowinge of them bee a witnesse in the which you doe praye God that it woulde please hym to sende his holy Angel from heauen to blesse and sanctifie these asshes to the ende they maye bée a healthfull remedy vnto all those whiche doe call vpon his name and that althose which de poure them vpon them maye receiue bealish of their body and safegarde of their soule for the redemption of their sinnes Those asshes should haue as much vertue as the bloud of Iesus Christ They should haue yet more shew and colour as already hath bene declared to restore the auncient Iewisth Ceremonye and to make asshes of the younge heyfer then to doe that that they doe or to make them of a Calfe as the Pomaines dyd For they shoulde haue more coulor in the holy Scripture in the which they shall finde no institution of their asshes Hillarius If they doe not finde it in the holy Scripture ought it not to suffice thée that it is founde in the Balender of Ouid. But they doe adde moreouer that the Vestalles wyth those consecrated asshes for the purgation of the people not onely made wyth a Calfe but also wyth stalkes and poddes of beanes had perfumes of Brimstone of Torches of the Laurell or Bay trée of the Dliffes of Rosemarye and other lyke swéete and oderiferant trées and hearbes of which your Missell teacheth you to make your asshe to wytte of the boughes which were blessed the yeare before and of the bandes and begins which they doe put on the little chyldren in their baptisme and confirmation Dost thou thincke Eusebius that those thinges doe euyll agrée wyth your Ceremonies and the purgations that you haue nas wel for the quicke as for the dead For sith that the bloud of Iesus Christ is not sufficient for you it must néedes be that you haue a Purgatory both for the one and the other But I haue yet forgotten that at the feast of the dead the Panims dyd shut their Temples and couer and hide their images as Ouid hath in lyke manner descrided by these verses The Gods of Churches were shut vp with close and priuy doores And alters wanted sacrifice none incense on them poures Then did poore soules and bodies dead committed to the graue Still stray abroade and feede on that set for them then to haue The Athenians also vsed Ceremonies altogether like vnto that feasts of Praxiergide which they celebrated in Athens in the moneth of February to the which the one holdeth the secrete misteries one other pulleth downe all the ornamentes of the Temple and an other couereth the Image that was there Doe not you receiue and vse yet at this day all in all those same manner of dooings the which you haue referred to Lent and doe stoppe the noses of your Idolls and hange a vayle before them for to declare that it is taken no more from you then from the Iewes I know not whether you be afraide least they should smel the garlike which you eat in Lent. I wil leaue off to speake of other sperstitions Idolatries which you haue borrowed of the Panims For I should neuer make an ende But I will onely shew one part of those which are descended from the feast of the dead celebrated amōg the Panims and of the purgations y they haue aswel for the quick as for the dead to the ende thou shouldest know that euen as you haue followed thē for y purgations of the buing so haue you done in those of the dead Theophilus It séemeth also y Tertulian would referre that which y Corinthians did baptize themselues for the dead to the Februales purifiecations of the panims as letting to vnderstand that where the Corinthians dyd baptize themselues for the dead was a superstition which they did yet kéepe of their auncient customes crcept y in stéede of that panish superstitions they did abuse that baptisme thinking y it ought to serue for the dead as we do sée in our time that they haue applyed it vnto the Lords supper by the means of Masses that which the superstitins Papists doe thinke to profit the dead in whose name the Priest doth cōmunicate and sing it Although that the wordes of Tertulian are obscure and very harde yet to cramine them together it séemeth verye well that he meaneth the same and the auncientes haue almost all taken it after that manner notwythstandinge that others doe take it in an other sence and doe interprete that place of Sainct Paule of those which doe cause themselues to bée baptised when they were in extreme sicknesse and néere vnto death For the custome was that those which came to the sayth which men call the Catechumenis bicause they are instructed in the fayth and Christian Religion dyd not of custome cause themselues to bée sodedinely baptised vntill suche time as they were well instructed and taught in the secrete misteries and doctrine of the Christian Religion And therfore bycayse they had the baptisme in great reuernce and dyd beléeue that thorow the same they had full remyssion and forgiuenesse of all their sinnes and were altogether renued many taryed and referred to be baptised vntyll they were lyke to dye thinckinge that when they dyed in such a state they were more purewr and cleaner from their sinnes the whiche they coulde neuer haue done if they had not truelye beléeued and hoped for the immortalytie of the soules and the resurrection of the fleshe Although that the Apostles allowed not suche manner of dooinge Those which doe take the woordes of the Apostle after such a sence and meaninge are induced to doe it bicause that they thincke that if the Apostle dyd vnderstande and meane that of the Panish superstitions that he would not haue passed it ouer wythout rebuking that errour and doe expound it that they should baptise themselues of the dead that is to say as dead and as people which repute themseluesalready dead I haue the willinger touched this for to giue occasion vnto the readers to examine well that place and the exposition of the auncientes and others Hillarius We haue sufficiently entreated of that matter Eusebius and thinke that thou shalt haue somewhat to doe to seperate against that which we haue propounded for to proue that your ceremonies prayers for the dead are taken of the true Church of Iesus Christ For I haue rehearsed vnto thee one parte of the Popes Kalender and mée séemeth that he ought to giue mée good wages for to end them all and his feasts as Ouid hath written those of the Romaines Eusebius If thou haddest as well read the workes of Sainct Augustine and of other auncient Doctors as the bookes of Ouid and other Poets and Autors of the Panims thou wouldest speake otherwise and thou shouldest not haue fallen into such déepe rootes of errors and heresles in which thou art wrapped in in such for that thou
Purgatory that the thing was not incredible But yet neuerthelesse he â—urst not affirme it but spake of it as of a thing doubtsull and incertein notwithstanding that hee â—â—emeth to bee of an opinion that the prayers made for the dead did profit them But when all shal be well considered what witnes or what example doth hee alledge out of the holy Scripture either of the olde or new testament sufficient for to proue and confirme that doctrine Iâ— he shewe foorth vnto me y custome of the auÌ„cient Church the traditions of the Apostles I will demaunde vpon the same the witnes or example of the holy scripture or of the primitiue Church For I am certeine he shall not finde it It is then necessary that we do come to the next age as was the time of Tertulian Ireneus and other like and afterwards from thence vnto the same of Cyprian For I haue already proued by their writings that in those times they did not make such prayers for the dead as they were after the time of Sainct Augustin For they did them not to the intent to helpe succour the dead but they directed them vnto God only for to giue him prayse for to demaund his grace mercy towards the lyuing euen as then the Commemorations of the Martyrs wâ—ich were done about their Sepuleres to the glory of God consolation of the liuing haue bâ—ne conuerted chaunged to y inuocation of saincts they haue made Idols of theÌ„ so the coÌ„memoration which is done of other that be dead hath bene chaunged into meritorious prayers for to draw thé from paine successiuely sithency that one hath learned the custom to make a certein remeÌ„brance mention in y ecclesiastical assibles thei came afterward to y point to make y coÌ„memoration in y supper for to witnes y they held theÌ„ of whoÌ„ in y same they made remeÌ„brance for true faithful catholicke of y coÌ„munion of saints which in y supper is represâ—tâ—d 〈◊〉 y same manner ought we to vnderstád y which S. Augustin hath writté of y remeÌ„brance which they celebrated for y dead in the sacrifice of y aulter of a mediator by which we ought not to vnderstaÌ„d a sacrifice in which Iesus christ our only mediator is offred to god his â—ather for y rediption of our souls as he was offred vpoÌ„ y trâ—e of y crosse after y manner as y priests do glory boast theÌ„selues at this present time to offer in their Masse according to y witnes of their Canon For there is but one such Sacrifice the whiche Iesus hath once offered which of none other can be done but of him alone who is the Priesse and euerlasting bishop after the order of Melchizedec if we wil not be lye the holy Ghost who spake by the mouth of the holy Apostle Thomas Of what Sacrifice then doth Sainct Augustine speake off Theophilus Thou oughtest to vnderstand that there bee two sortes of Sacrifices whiche doe comprehend all y other The first is y sacrifice of reconciliation redemption for to deliuer the sinners from the yre and wrath of God But this apperteyneth but to Iesus Christ alone of whom y Leuiticall sacrifices wer but a shadow and figure The other is y sacrifice of praise thanks giuing by which we may comprehend al y workes of the faithfull by which they do prayse God and doe trauiale to be ioyned vnto him As Sainct Augustine doth expounde it Now forasmuche as the sacrament of the holye supper of our Lord is one of the principall things that the church hath for to glorifie God rightly it was called by the auncients sacrifice as not long agoe hath bene touched not by reason that Iesus Christe is offred vnto God by vs But bicause that he offreth himselfe vnto vs and that thorow faith we receiue it and render vnto him it ankes for the greate benefit that he hath done for vs giuing himselfe to the death for vs and we confesse and protest that wee doe not take nor holde anye other for a sauiour then hée onely nor we accept any mans sacrifice but his For that cause hath the supper in like manner bene called Eucharistia by the Greeks The which word signifieth giuing of thankes After the same manner haue Sainct Augustine and other anncient Doctors of the Churche vnderstanded it And they vnderstand not by the aulter any other thinge but the table vpon which y Church hath vsed to celebrate the supper making allusion vnto the aulters of the auncient law and haue regarde to that sacrifice of thankes gyung which in the supper is offred vnto god by his church Behold the estate which was in the Church touching that poynt in the tyme of Sainct Augustine which was about foure hundreth yeares after the death and passion of Iesus Christ in which the church dyd begin then very much to degenerate and to be corrupted For after that one once had begonne to myngle the commemoration of the dead with that of Iesus Christe for which onely the supper is celebrated not for sinfull men who haue not redemed vs by their death from one opinion and error it is fallen into another in suche sorte that men are fallen into such dreamingâ— that they haue thought that y supper to the which those that were a lyue dyd coÌ„municate dyd profyt the dead and that they might take it for them and to their health saluation after the same manner as they dyd the other suffrages in theyr name Hillarius If we will vnderstand that which saint Paul hath wrytten of the Corinthians which baptised themselues for the dead after the sence in which the auncients haue taken it we should haue no lesse reason to excuse them then those here For if I may take the supper for an other man wherefore may I not in lyke manner be baptised for him I thinke that they will not graunte we that that one may be baptised for an other and that that baptisme doth profite him and yet lesse to the dead then to the lyuing Theophilus It is well founde out who haue bene of that opinion that they may be baptised for the dead which without baptisme were departed out of this world that y baptisme profiteth them But the Doctors questionaries and namely Thomas of Aquin benyeth it and condempneth that opinion Hillarius If I may not then be baptised for the dead whereto serueth or profiteth the supper that I shall take for them For it hath not bene more ordayned for the dead then the baptisme but both of them were for the lyuing aswell the one as the other sith that both of them are Sacraments giuen vnto the militant Church and which is yet couered and wrapped in this flesh Theophilus There is nothing more certeyne And yet neuerthelesse behold how the one of the errors hath drawen the
now Eusebius There is no doubt of it Theophilus Sith that it is so tell mée what soules went thether For eyther it must bée altogether emptie and voide or else it must be that some went thether eyther those of the elect faithfull or those of the Infidels and reprobate Now I do not thinke that thou wilt say that the Purgatory was for the Infidels and reprobate Eusebius One may so iudge by that which is written of the wicked rich man. Theophilus Sith then that hell was for the reprobate it followeth then necessarily that the soules of the elect shoulde goe into Purgatorye If it hée so to what ende serueth the Limbe For you doe saye that all the Patriarches Prophetes and true faythfull whiche are departed out of this worlde before the death and passion of Iesus Christe were there kepte and deteyned and they coulde not goe into Paradise vntyll such time as Iesus Christe had satysfied for them Wherefore I doe conclude accordinge to your doctrine eyther that the Limbe and Purgatorye were all one place and lodginge or else that the one of them two was voyde and supersâ—uous or that there was but one or for to speake the truth neyther the one nor the other For if the Limbe were for to receiue the faythfull that dyed in the fayth of the promyse made vnto Abraham what néede was there anye more of Purgatorye bad they not Purgatorye suffycient inough in the Limbes Were they not sufficientlye tormented to bée excluded from Paradise and depryued from the ioyes thereoff and from the fruytion of the glorye of GOD as you doe affirme For what more greater torment can a faythfull man haue then to bee depryued from suche a good thinge That is not onely a Purgatorye but a very hell Eusebius I do know that in hearing thée speake that thou which wouldest teache others art yet in greater ignoraunce and that thou vnderstandest verye euyll this matter The Limbe then was for those which were in such estate as those are nowe which haue finished their penaunce and haue made entire and whole satisfaction for their sinnes in this world which doe go strayght waye into Paradyse sauinge that those there cannot yet enter bicause that the doore was shutte vntyll that Iesus Christ came to open it and to breake the gates of Hell. Theophilus Wherefore was the Purgatorye Had it in it yet a certeyne other sorte of soules and of an other condytion then those which went into the Limbes Eusebius Yea. For thou mayst well vnderstande that all the faythfull which haue procéeded and bene before the comminge of our Lorde Iesus Christe haue not all of them bene so holy and so perfect as the Patriarches and Prophetes Wherefore it were no reason that incontinently after they are deade they shoulde receyue as much felicytie as they wythout they doe first accomplishe and ende their penaunce in Purgatorye and satysfie for their sinnes the which they haue not done in thys world as the holy Patriarches and Prophets haue done or otherwyse GOD shoulde not bée iuste For what reason is it that hée whiche hath lyued in all viees and sinnes all the time of this lyfe vntyll the laste tyme of hys death in whiche gée hath had repentaunce of hys sinnes and hath asked mercye of God shoulde haue no more gréeuous punishment but should receiue as great reward as he which al his life time hath serued God faithfully and hath alwayes lyued in holynesse righteousnesse and innocencie Theophilus Take héede thou doe not blaspheme God and doe imurye vnto his grace and mercye For I doe greatly feare but that thou wilt bée like vnto the brother of the prodigall childe who was enuious against his brother and murmured against his father béeing angrye at the gentle receiuing and of the grace and fauour that hee dyd vnto his sonne whome he had recoured béeing reduced and brought into the right way or least that thou be one of the companions of theÌ„ which were hired to work in the vineyard which did murmure against the good man of the house bicause y he did giue as much wages vnto those whom he called at the eleuenth houre a little before night for to work in his vineyard as vnto those whoÌ„ hée appointed from the morning which haue borne the burthen and heate of the day Wherfore dost thou not accuse our Lord Iesus Christ who hath aunswered vnto that poore theefe who dyd hange vppon the Crosse â—â—yth him This daye shalt thou bée with mée in Paradise What good déedes had hée done before Art thou enuious of the grace which God doth vnto the poore sinners Eusebius God forbid But we must vnderstand that as God is mercifull so is hée righteous And if the théefe which was crucified with Iesus Christ had had that priuiledge it followeth not therefore that all haue the lyke or that they ought to haue it For as the lawe makers doe say the priuiledges of a fewe are not common lawes to all men Theophilus If that théefe hath receiued so greate goodnesse by one singular priuiledge I doe aunswere vnto thée further that none is saued but by priuiledge For all wée haue meryted eternall dampnation of our nature Inasmuch then as wée be saued that is thorow a singular priuiledge which is giuen of God vnto the elect by Iesus Christ which is not common vnto the reprobate Eusebius There is yet an other reason wherefore that théese went straight into Paradise wythout passinge by the fire and the paines of Purgatorye that is bicause that he had alreadye done his penaunce in this world and hath satisfied for his sinnes Theophilus What penaunce or satisfaction coulde hée haue made For the theftes and murthers for which hée was hanged on the Gybet Eusebius But it was the paine that hée endured and suffered and the death that he hath receiued for his demerites Theophilus As much did his companion suffer which was hanged on the left hande but yet neuerthelesse his torments haue serued him nothing at all and hée dyd not heare such promise of Iesus Christ as the other Eusebius Bicause that hée dyd not take his death and torment quyetly and patientlye and hath not beléeued in Iesus Christe and demaunded pardon of hys sinnes as his companion did Theophilus Thou alwayes commest vnto my compt and thou shalt hée compelled to confesse that there is nothinge which was the cause of his saluation but the faith which he had in Iesus Christ and the mercy of God which hée hath obteyned by the same without that that God had regard neither to his dignitie or worthinesse nor vnto his workes but vnto Iesus Christe his sonne for whose loue he hath pardoned him not for the forment and death which the théese hath suffred and the satisfaction that he could doe vnto him but for the forment death and passion which Iesus Christ hath suffred the satisfaction that he hath made for him the which
canon which was made But yet at this day that errour continueth among the Bohemians and Morauians the which yet neuerthelesse the Papists themselues doe not allow no more then that which S. Cyprian Origene did which did distribute the supper vnto young children when their fathers and mothers brought them in their armes in comming to communicate the same And they gaue vnto them not onely the breade but also the cup. Now let vs thinke if already such errors were about the sacraments in that time there what may chaunce afterwards For Cyprian reigned about the yeare after the death and passion of Iesus Christ two hundreth and fiftie Those worthy men would not haue so much attributed vnto the Sacraments if they had not so much taken to the rigor and to the letter the words of Iesus Christ Of the like beginning came vp the error of those which estéemed thought the he which after that he was baptised hauing once receiued the supper could neuer be damned or at the least should be once delyuered from damnation bicause that Iesus Christ hath said I am that liuing bread that came downe from heauen if anyman eate of this bread hée shall liue for euer They vrge vpon the letter said that Iesus Christ could not lye which hath promised the same Yet neuertheles Sainct Augustine rebuketh confuteth their errour Beholde y absurdities into which men do fall for fault of wel examining the Scriptures when they doe take them according to the rigor of the letter For whosoeuer wil according to the opinion which the Papistes haue of the Sacrament of the alter take litterally y which Iesus Christ said of eating of his flesh drinking his bloud there is no doubt but that we shall be constrayned to confesse that all those which haue once taken the supper are all saued and y all those which shall not once receiue it are all damned And so it shal be no lesse requisite to giue y supper vnto the young childrē to giue power vnto womē to giue it them then y baptisme they y would take the words those matters by y rigor And therfore for to retourne to the place by thée alledged by the absurdities which should follow of thy expositiō the which do repugne against the grace of Iesus Christ as I haue declared vnto thee thou maist wel know that we must not vnderstand that place after that manner as thou doest expounde it For Iesus Christ speaketh not in that place there of visible baptisme nor of his institution But speaketh of the regeneration of man and sheweth what thing he must haue for to be a Christian to wit that it is necessary that he doe renounce forsake his first generation natiuitie which is altogether corrupted and cursed and that he be regenerated by the spirit of God and thorowe the incorruptible séede of his woorde insomuch that he is made a newe creature bearinge the Image of Iesus Christ the true celestiall Adam euen as hée hath borne that of the olde and terrestriall Adam And therefore hath hée sayd Except a man be borne from aboue or a new be cannot sée the kingdome of god And after he expoundeth it by the other proposition following which signifieth none other thing then that which hée hath already sayd before For to be borne from aboue or to bée borne againe and to be borne of water and the holy Ghost are equiualent manners of speakings And the two propositions of Iesus Christ are equipolent y one to the other ther is none other difference sauing that y last is more ample and expoundeth the first For sith that our first natiuitie is carnal it must be y the second be spirituall Sith that the first man is of the earth earthly it is requisite that the second which is from heauen be heauenly and spirituall Now that regeneration transformation cannot be made but by the spirite of god For as it is written in that same place That which is borne of the flesh is flesh That that is borne of the spirit is spirit And therefore Iesus Christ willing to expoūd vnto Nicodemus y which he had said before Except y a man be borne frō aboue or a new he cannot see the kingdome of God Afterwardes saith which shall not bée borne of water and the holy Ghost bicause that the holy Ghost author of that regeneration is giuen from aboue which worketh a secōd natiuitie in vs which is celestiall and spirituall Eusebius But what néeded it to adde the water was it not sufficient to name the holy Ghost Theophilus Wherefore hath Iohn Baptist sayd speaking of the ministry of Iesus Christ That he would baptise with the holye Ghoste and with fire what néeded it sith that he named the holy Ghost to adde vnto it the fire Shall it be therefore necessary to constitute a baptisme of the fire as some do say that some Christians which are amongst y Indians Aethiopians Persians do who for that cause did vse the fire for baptisme of the fire Eusebius One may well perceiue there that Sainct Iohn taketh the fire by a Metaphore and that he vnderstandeth no other thing by the fire then the holy Ghost of whom he hath already spokē the better to expound the nature of the same for as the fire is pure cleane and cannot suffer any spot or filth but purgeth maketh cleane illuminateth the consciences enflameth them to the loue of god For which cause he was sent vnto y Apostles in y liknes of tongues of fire the which S. Iohn did foresée forespeak off vsing such wordes Theophilus Thy exposition doth please me very much Wherefore if thou makest it no difficultie to take in that place the fire for the spirit of God for more ample expositiō of his nature properties wherfore oughtest thou to make a doubt to take y water in that place for that same signification séeing y agréeing y the water hath with the nature of y holy Ghost For there is no lesse reason but a great deale more appearance For Sainct Iohn putteth the holy Ghost first the fire afterwards Wherfore it séemeth either that he vnderstandeth two thinges seperated or that he expoundeth the thing more cléere by a more darker thing Although that thy aunswere doth sufficiently satisfye that obiection But in that place Iesus Christ putteth y water first afterwards as if hée would expound his Metaphore and comparison and giue vnto it more greater brightnesse he declareth what he would signifie by that water to wit the holy Ghost vnto whom he giueth that name for many causes First bicause that as the fire is an element meruailous pure and cleane and so necessary vnto mans life that it is impossible for men to lack it so is it of y water the which is also by nature cléere pure and
beleeue that thou art not ignorant how your owne doctours do answere to that place Among which Holcot repugneth Saint Augustine saying that his exception is not sufficient and that the man which knoweth Iesus Christ may be saued without baptisme by an other meanes then by martyrdome But which is more he affirmeth that the man which beléeueth himselfe to be perfectly baptised yet neuerthelesse is not shal be out of all daunger of dampnation and saith that that saith shoulde sâ—rue hun to saluation although that it were builded vpon a falsitie But what is he among vs which is perfectly assured whether he be baptised or no. Howe can we knowe it but by the witnesse of an other Therefore the maâ—ster of the sentences aunswereth vppon the obâ—â—ctions made by thée that we must vnderstande the wordes of saint Augustine according to the declaration that he hath giuen in other places in which he entreateth that matter more amplie And therefore saith he we must vnderstande those thinges of those which haue had the time and leasure for to be baptised haue not done it For if any hauing faith and charitie woulde be baptised and cannot being ouertaken with necessitie the benignitie liberalitie of y most puissant God recompenseth y which wanted in the sacrament For when he may pay if he do not pay he abideth bound But when he cannot and yet neuertheles he is willing to do it God which hath not tyed his power vnto the sacraments imputeth it not vnto him I haue alledged vnto thée the very wordes euen as they be written in the booke of the maister of the sentences which yet proueth by saint Augustine that the inuisible sactification hath béene in some and hath profited them without the visible sacramentes saying after this manner the visible sanctification the which is done by the visible sacrament may be without the inuisible but it cannot profite Yet we must not neuerthelesse contemne and dispise the visible sacrament For the contemner of the same cannot be sactified inuisibâ—â—e And notwithstanding that Holcot alloweth that which others haue written of the baptisme of bloude he declareth yet neuerthelesse sufficiently ynough that he which without being baptised sheddeth his bleude for the name of Iesus Christ is not baptised by that bloude which hath béene shed But that the Church holdeth him for baptised bicause that by the same he hath sufficiently witnessed that he hath not dispised baptisme but that he woulde willingly receiue it if it had béene possible for him Sith that he hath shewed such faith in the Gospell of Iesus Christ Eusebius I graunt that thou saiest as touching men of age vnto whome the faith and repentaunce doe recompence the want of baptisme But of young infantes it is otherwise For sith that there is neither â—aith nor repentance in them they cannot be saued without baptisme Therefore saith the maister of the sentences that those which dye without baptisme yea though one bring them to bee baptised shal bee dampned and doth proue it by saint Augustine saying holde this for a suertie and doubt nothing at all of it that not onely men hauing already reason but also the young infants which begin to liue in their mothers belly and doe there die without the sacrament of holy baptisme which is giuen in the name of the father the sonne and the holy ghost or those which without the same doe passe out of this worlde after that they are borne shal be punished with eternall fire For although that they haue not had sinne by theyr proper acte and woorke yet they haue neuerthelesse drawen vnto them by their conception and natiuitie the dampnation of originall sinne Theophilus Thou hast nowe beaten downe the Lymbe of the young infants For if the wordes of Saint Augustine be true according to the sence whiche thou giuest vnto them the little infantes dying without baptisme are all dampned and punished in eternall â—re They are then in hell Wherefore it is not nowe néede to forge and make for them a Lymbe By that meanes all the doctrine of your doctours is here ouerthrowne And therefore they haue not all allowed that sentence but haue iudged it too rigorous and cruell in such sort that some for that cause haue called S. Augustine the hangman of the young Inâ—ants notwithstanding that he is well worthie that they doe speake of him more reucrently For I do not thinke that he himselfe would that these wordes shoulde be taken after such râ—gour and extremitie And therefore it is néede to consider the occasions which might haue moued him to write after that sort For if the necessitie and the impossibilitie excuseth the great ones wherefore shall the little ones â—e lesse excusable which haue yet more excuse then the great ones may haue For when they dye being young or in their mothers bellie or out of it what fault then was in them that they were not baptised hath God conceiued more greater hatred against them then against the great ones although the baptisme of the water shoulde be asmuch necessarie vnto saluation as you do make it if there be any exception for the ene by what right reason may it be denyed vnto the others when the cause the excuses are equall But we ought to consider that in the tâ—â—e of Saint Augustine there might be a great sort of people which had not the Sacraments in such estimation and reuerence as they ought to haue as wée haue proued it in our time in which some haue so much attributed vnto it that they haue made of the visible signes a Iesus Christ and an Idole The others to the contrarie do holde them as signes without vertue and efficacie no more then the signes which the souldiours do beare for to shewe what Prince they do serue Hillarius But haue we not had Anabaptistes which would baptise them selues againe and haue coâ—demned the baptisme of young Infants willing to deferre it vntill they should come vnto the age of discretion Theophilus Let vs not doubt that from the time of Saint Augustine but that there be many founde more negligent then they ought to he touching the sacrameÌ„ts the which thing hath coÌ„pelled the aunâ—ients to magnifie them so much And therefore those which are come after them not considering the causes wherefore they did the same haue taken the wordes rawly without a fit interpretation and without taking beede to their manner of speaking rethorically and figuratiuely which hath beene the cause that they haue made Idols as though the vertue of Iesus Christ and of the Christian religion were in those visible signes Wée cannot deny but that in the time of those good auncient fathers many after that they had knowen the Gospell tarryed not long time to cause themselues to be baptised yea often times vntill the latter end of their life Nowe they did the same some through negligence others bicause of
sainct Augustâ—â—â—ath 〈◊〉 â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—â—â—ly of the woeman but of the priâ—â—te and pâ—â—ticulâ—r man to witte whether hée do◠〈◊〉 i◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i◠〈◊〉 of neces 〈◊〉 To the whiâ—h â—é◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the rather for to 〈◊〉 it thâ—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the â—easâ— wiâ—e it is a thing 〈◊〉 that â—◠〈◊〉 â—ot 〈◊〉 that it is lawfull but confeâ—â—eth 〈◊〉 that there 〈◊〉 â— certeyne fault although that â—ée made it light But he hath taken it as it happenâ—th 〈◊〉 â—â—to the good Mariners who through the â—iolâ—â—câ—s â—â— the 〈◊〉 are constrayned to 〈◊〉 from their right 〈◊〉 and to followe whether the tempestes and windes will driue and cary them There â—s no doubte that 〈◊〉 from the time of Sainâ—t Augustine that errour and custome was not any thing at all receyued Wherefore Sainct Augustine â—â—rst not altogether condempne it No more also durst hée â—o allowe it nor altogether excuse it o◠〈◊〉 Yet neuerthelesse if wée doe followe the rule of Iesus Christe that will put vs â—ut of all doubâ—e Althoughe that wée yet haue on our side the fourth Councell of Africa whiche hath forbidden the same without any exception It is most true that in the â—eâ—réâ—s â—f Graâ—ian that Canon is alledged but not accordinge to the truth as it is written in the booke of Councells For hée addeth to it the exception whiche is not in the true oryginall Hillarius Althoughe that â—here wâ—re none but the witnesses of the Priestes they doe sufficientlye declare that it is euill For when one bringeth the â—hildren to â—ée baptised they doe demaunde is there any thinge but good They demaund the same for to know whether that the Infant hath bene baptised by the woemâ—n If it hath not bene baptised thâ—â— aunswere that all is well or there is nothinge but good It followeth then that thâ—re was an euill when the childe was baptised by them Eusebius They dâ—â— not vnderstand it so as thou takest it Hillarius I beléeue thée well and I doubt not but that God will make thâ—m speake â—â— he hath made Caâ—pâ—â—es to prophecie without vnderstanding themselues Eusebius For that thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thy selfe so much that we haue no witnes of the Scripture how wilt thou theâ— excuse Zipphora the wiâ—e of Moses who circumcised hir sonne Eleaser in Moses own presence how hath then Moses peâ—â—â—itteâ— the same Theophilus The example is not like but rather against thée then for thée For first thou séest that Moses did not estéeme the circumcision so necessary as you estéeme the baptisme sith that he made so small accompt to circumcise his â—onne although that he had more expresse commaundement thâ—â— we haue of baptisme Furthermore notwithstanding that that place is very obsâ—ure bicause that Moses rehearseth the history â—o short and briefly Yet neuerthelesse iâ— one doe examine it throughly one shall not finde that that example can be better applyed then to the â—ispiâ—â—ng of the circumcision and of the Saâ—â—aâ—â—eâ—â—es For that which is written that the Lord or his Angell came before him and assalted him minding to kill him 〈◊〉 ently declareth that the Lord was angâ—â— bicause that Moses notwithstandinge that he had the â—â—â—e and the occasion to circumcise his sonne hath not done such diligence as he ought to haue done Wherefore the Lord punished him But as soone as the childe was circumcised he was deliuered from that daunger and the Lord did not pursue him anye more But there is an other reason when the Infantes doe dye and that there is no negligence nor default in the parentes As touching that that Zipphora did the office to circumcise not Moses we must consider that then Moses coulde not doe that bicause that he was pressed and grieued by the hande of God who would haue killed him Wherefore for to saue his lyfe Zipphora laide to hi◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For none other coulde haue done it but shée Eusebius Nowe thou art compelled to confesse that which I demaund For thou wilt excuse Zipphora bycausâ— of the necessitie whiche constrained hir no more also doe wée allow the baptisme administred by woemen and others then the ministers of the Church but in case of necessitie Theophilus I haue yet other reasons against thée The first is that wée doe not reade that God hath giuen expresse commaundement vnto men onely to circumcise as he hath doâ—e of baptising The second is there was not thâ—â—â—ny forme of the Church nor policiâ— and publike ministrie amonge the Medianites and where Moses was The third is that it is lykest to â—ée true that Zipphora did that by the commaundement of Moses hir husbande who feeling himselfe strokeâ— of God admonyshed hir to do that for to saue his life For otherwise how could â—he haue vnderstanded and knowen that hir husâ—ande had bene in daunger of death for such cause if hée had not aduertysed hir of it Although that Moses writinge briefly hath not reâ—â—â—rsed all those thinges at large But he hath made them sufficiently to bée vnderstanded Nowe if Moses did commaunde hir she did it not without the worde of God Sith that Moses was a Prophet yea him by whome God addressed and gaue his ordinaunce in the Church of Israel Furthermore although that it be so yet that example is not sufficient for to builde the baptisme of woemen against the ordinance of Iesus Christ For we ought not to draw into a generall consequence the perticuler examples of Sainctes and that which by a singuler priuiledge and dispensation hath bene somtime permitted them if we haue no expresse commaundement as they haue had or the same occasions and circumstaunces Besides that that there be some examples of holy men the which the Scripture alloweth not alwayes notwithstanding that it rehearseth them or if it doe allowe them in those there it followeth not therefore that it doth the like in vs if we haue not a certeine vocation and calling of God. Thomas I greatly feare Eusebius that in disputing after this manner the Lymbe and the Purgatorye which thou vpholdest and mainteinest will be altogether destroied and ouerthrowen For as farre as I can iudge the same of the young children is altogether throwen down to the ground if thou do not helpe it The Purgatorye hath but a little more holde There remayneth now but the Limbe of the fathers of which I do very much desire to know the resolution and to vnderstande whether it bée all one with Paradise For Theophilus hath already almost proued it to bée so speaking of the estate of those which were in Abrahams bosome Eusebius I do not deny but that the auncient Fathers which were deteined in the Limbes had already a certein participation of the celestial ioyes but not so great as they haue had after the death and passion of Iesus Christ Theophilus I hope that we shal be soone agréed and that there shall be in the ende no other difference betwéene the Sainctes which are dead vnder the
Shall it be reasonable that the faythfull should be put into the hande of the diuell for to he subiect vnto him whom they haue vanquished and ouercome and punished by him ouer whom they haue triumphed Theophilus They haue not yet wel triumphed if they be yet so deteined and kept in sinnes that for them they must be kept in a fire altogether lyke vnto that same of hell for the time that they are there Mee thinkes that that office should be more decent and meete for the Diuels then for the Angells For it is not lyke to be true that the Angells should be the hangmen of the soules of the faythfull and that they shoulde take pleasure to imprison and torment so cruellye their neighbours and bretheren whiche are Citizens of Heauen with them I haue read in the holy Scriptures that the Angells caryed the soule of Lazarus into the besome of Abraham into a place of ioye and rest and that they haue deliuered Saint Peter and the Apostles out of prison But I haue neuer read that they haue lead them into prison nor into places of tormentes nor that they did leade the rich man into hell For as much as your Doctors confesse that the Diuels do holde themselues next to the soules of those which are purged in Purgatory and doe accompany them for to reioyce themselues of their torments and to mocke them of the same They may best giâ—e that office vnto them and to exempt and omit the Angells But what appearaunce hath it with thy exposition If the Duâ—el or the sinne ought héere to be vnderstanded for our aduerse partye it followeth then that Iesus Christ commaundeth vs to agrée and to be at one with the diuel and sinne But how can we be agreed with him and with God Furthermore he would that that same agréement should be done whilest that one is in the way that is to say in this lyfe For after that man is dead he is out of the way It must then followe that he must make héere his good déedes before he doe dye for to auoide that prison of Purgatorye And the same shall be for to confirme the prouerbe of the Priestes saying that better is the candle that goeth before then that that commeth behinde Eusebius How wilt thou interprete that place Hillarius Sith that there is an allegory and that your Doctors doe play so with the word of God I will also play and iest with them First although there were none other reason but that you will heare build the Purgatory vpon an allegory it is sufficient inough for to ouerthrow and pull downe all your foundation For there is not a Theologian which confesseth not but that the Allegoryes are not sufficient for probation and confirmation of doctrine whatsoeuer it bée if it haue none other foundation more cléerer and more playne in the worde of God but is more proper and fitte for to beautifie and set out the matters to delite and mooue the auditors and hearers then for to proue and confirme it For one maye expounde them after diuerse manners accordinge to the dexteritie and wit of him which declareth them And therefore if I woulde ieste and playe with the woorde of GOD as your Doctours doe I might allegorise and declare that place expoundinge the Iudge for the Pope which is the God Pluto The aduersariâ— for the Priestes For they doe quarrell with vs alwaies for to get money from vs and we can neuer be at one and agréed with them except they haue al and that they haue eaten vs quicke and dead The Sergeaunt that is the Angell and the God Mercury For according to the Poetical Theologie he had wings and â—aryed the soules to hel and was the God of gayne of deceipts larcâ—nyes as already hath bene touched Now who leadeth the soules into Purgatory but that Sâ—rgeaunt héere of God Pluto As the cause of the gayne and hope of the money and raunsome which our Merchaunts and aduerse parties doe looke for They would gladly that we should agrée with them whilst that we are in the way in this present lyfe and that wée should distribute vnto them all our goodes without leauing any thing neyther to our children parents nor friends I am very certeine that after that we haue giuen them all and that there is no more hope to gette any more raunsome of vs that there shall bée no more prison for vs nor Sergeaunts for to leade vs thether Doest thou thinke Eusebius that my interpretation is not as good as thine I am well assured that as to the sence and meaning of the words of Iesus Christ neyther the one nor the other approcheth nigh vnto it and lesse thine then mine but according to your Theologie mine is more sufferable and more true Thomas Thou wilt then say that the one and the other are nothing worth and therfore Theophilus expound vnto vs the true sence and meaning of Iesus Christ Theophilus We must wel note and marke that which Hillarius hath sayd of Allegories How much difference there is betweene thiâ— héere of Iesus Christ and those which y expositors do make commonly For in these words of Iesus Christ there iâ— an example a comparison wrapped in with an Allegorie For Iesus Christ would not here declare any other thing but into what dangers inconuâ—niences those doe put themselues which had rather to goe to the â—igour of right then to agrée friendly with the aduerse partie before they doe come to iudgement to that ende that hée doth the better incitate and stirre forwarde men vnto amitie and brotherly reconcilyation of which he speaketh in this place After the same forte doth Saint Chrisostome expounde it without making any mention of Purgatory and he alloweth not those which do vnderstand by the aduerse partie the diuell but interpreteth that place oâ—â—lees anâ— processe Now our Lord Iesus the better to moue the hearers to brotherly reconcâ—lyation taketh example vppon the pleaders as if he shoulde saye If thy aduerse partie do bring thée into iudgement thâ—â— canst doe no better for thy honour and profite then to agrée with him before thou proue and try the rigour of right For if thou agrée friendly with the partie he may shew thée some faâ—our and forgiue thee the debâ—e and thou shalt auoyde the dishonour shame and the costâ—s which is bestowed vppon the playnts On the contrary if thou doe not agrée thou canst not so well auoyde the payment but the Iudge shall know it and thou shalâ— be condemned and compelled to pay to the vttermost all the debt without rebating one farthing euen as those which for debt are deteined and kept in prison vntill the ende of thâ— payment Beholde the example and the similytude which Iesus Christ propounded vnto vs for to bring vs to reconcilyation But he declareth not amply that which he would haue vs to vnderstand by the same but it suâ—â—seth him
Canous of Lesus Christ The Emperors Pope do abolish the statutes of their predecessours Iesus Christ the eternall Plipe Plat. in vita Stepha 6. Formosus 1. Stephan 6. For mosus 1. Antibopes Schismatickes Christ Antechrist Rom. 6. a. 4 1. Cor. 15. b. 12 Ephe. 1. d. 28 2. b. 6 Coloss t. c. 18. Mat. 28. d. 20 Ephe. 3. c. 15 Daniel 7. 1 22 Esa. 9 b 6 Phll. 2. b. 10 Apo. â— d. 13 All Popes Antipopes Anticurists The Papisticall â—irges The lakes and internall finds Fire vvater Holy vvater vn profitable Fluds of vvyne of milke Ouid. Meta. 1 Flumina Iam lactis Iam flumina nectaris ibant The infernall fluddes their names interpretations Lethe AcheroÌ„ Styx Cocytus Phlogeton Psa 12. a. 3 55. â— 1. Iere. 2. c. 13. The significatios the deepe lake The lake without vvater Zach. 9. c. 11 A soule taken in a net Barleta feri 4 hebd 4. quadr de pe purg The Bishop Tibaud The papisticall lakes and â—ondes The â—luds of Paradise Esa. 11. a. 3 Geneâ— 2. b. 10 The tree of life Cicâ—ro Tuse q. li. 1 A soule drawen from hell Aueruus The forbidding of bookes The fluds of paradise Pyson Genes 2. b 10 Fluds bringeth golde Tagus Pactolus Ganges Hebrus Padus Eridanus Orcus Eurotos Peneus 4. ca. 8 Plin. li. 4 ca. 8 Pâ—neus accipii amnem EurotoÌ„ nec recipit sed olei modâ— super natatem breui spaicio portatuÌ„ abdicat penales aquas dirisque genitas argenteis suis miscere recusans The floude of Christ The ouerflowing of Tyber The floud Nylus and the fertility of Aegipt Strab. Geor. li. vlti Solin ca. 45. Seneca li. 4. natu quae Luc. Phar. 10 Plin. in panegy ad Traia Plin. natu hist li. 5. ca. 9 Nilometres Diodo sicu li. 1 Tibul. li. 1. ad Nilum Te propter nul los tellus tua postulat imbres Arida nec pluuio supplicat herba loui Claudia in con su Theo. Lene sluit Nilus sed cuÌ„ctis amnsbus extat vtilior Deutat bae Palaemon ex Diony Non alius tantum fluutorum ditat arenas Atque trahens limum complec titur vbere caÌ„pos The floud Nilus of the Pope Charibdis The dykes of the fortresses of the Papists To passe the floude Lethe To forget God. Esa 29. d. 13. Mat. 15. a. 8 A cl cron The kingdome of god Rom. 14 c. 17. Iere. 2. c. 13. Styx Cocytus Phlegeton Ihon. 14. d. 16 The holy ghost is called the comforter Claudiut Foelix qui phaitas prescindit vomere terras Nubila non spe rat tenebris coÌ„dentia coelum Nec grauiter slantes pluuiali frigore Coros Inuocat aut arcum varlota luce rubentem Aegyptus siue aube ferax inbresque serenos Sola tenet so cu ra poli non indiga venti Gaudet aquis quas ipsae vehit Niloque redundat Deu. 11. b. 10 To fish in the troubled water The fishers of Iesus Christ of Antechrist Mat. 4. d. 19. Luc. 5. c. 10. Fishers of gold and siluer Sub anulo pisca torto Fishers of soules The nets of the Priestes The vvaters of Aegypt To go out of Aegypt Exo. 14. c. 21 The taking of Babilon Cirus Darius Euphrates Pli. li. 3 ca. 14. Solin ca. 50. Xenoph. in Cir. hist li. 1. in cho Daniel 5. s 23 Ioseph lib. 10 ca. 13 The Prophecie against the Aegyptians Esa. 19 2. 5. The fisshers for saken Demetrius Act. 19 s 14 Diana the goddesse of the Ephesians Daungerous Martâ—ers Mat. 8. c. 2 â— Mar. 14. d. 32 Iohn 3. b. 19 Prayer for the lyuing The vvater of tribulation Psa 2â— c. 21 Psaâ— 6. e. 23 Esa. 8. h 8 Sennacharib Euphrates Strab. li. 16 Proc. li. 1. Pers bel Esa. 36. cap. 4. Reg. 18. and 19. cap. The Romish Sennacherib The deuouring Lyon. 1. Pet. 5. b. e The Lyon of the tribe of Iuda Apoc. 5. b. 5 Sampson and Dauid Iudg. 14. a. 5. 1. Sam. 17 c. 35 Esa. 31. b. 4 Mat. 6. b. 13 Luc. 11. a. 2 Iohn 17 b. 9 1. Pet. 5. b. 8 Repugnaunce of doctrine The Papisticall doctrine is vncertaine Deleyueraunce from hell Traianus delyuered from hell Saint Ignatius lo. Maio. 4. sent dist 45. quae Saint Machayr Saint Brandun Alrus in fine sui 4. Iudas out of hell Diuers opinioÌ„s of the deliuerance of Traianus Tho. in 4. dist 1. 3. Argu. 2 10. Maio. 4. sent dist 45. qua 1. Barl. ser 3. Hab. 4. sermo de pen. inser Priuiledges Extra derog sur li. 6 Virg. Aenci. 6. Our master Iohn Maioris 4. sent dist 45 q. 1. The Author of the history of Traianus Damascenus Supple chro Bergons li. 9. â—latin in vit Celest 1 The time of Gregory Bergo li. 10 Maio. 4. sent dist 45. q. 1. Berl sermo de pen. inse Ne absorbeat eas Tartarus ne cadant in obsura The place of the Papisticall soules The fall of the soules Paradise The fall of Angels of man Genes 3. d. 24. 2. Pet. 2. a. 4. The Limbe Purgatory Three kinds of righteousnesse after Plato Ruth and Booz Ruth 2. d. 20 Works of mercy towardes the dead August de ciui dei li. 1. ca. 12. 13. que 2. c ani ma. 4. sent dist 45 c. de pompit The profite of the buriall Virgil. Facilis iactura sepulera Comparison of the rich and of Lazarus Luc. 16. c. 19 Luca. li. 9. phras aternus animaÌ„ colligit in orbes Non illue auro positi nec thure sepults perueniunt Psa 79. a. 2 Luca. li. 6 phars Nihil agis hac tra tales ne cadauera saluat An rogus haud resert Placido natura receptat Cuncta suni post capit omnia tellus 〈◊〉 Quae genuit coelo igitur qui non habet vinaÌ„ August in psal 94. cone 1. The benquettee for the dead To do good during our lyfe Preparation for the departure out of this lyfe Mat. 25. d. 40. Hierome in Esa of Forgiuenesse in this vvorld Daies dedicated to the dead Neeysia Lunata Euagismata Ceterismata Terchismata Triacas Parentationes Nouendialia Demealia Ratio diui off de off pro mort Rub. 7. The seuenth dayes and the yere mindes Dist 44. ex coÌ„cilio NauenteÌ„si Nullus A lesson for the Priests Quaffing for bidden Gluttony Maskes and Morrishes God hath not instituted feasts nor sacrafices for the dead VVherein the Priests doe folovv y Ievves Panims Ruth 1. b. 8 Ruth 2. d. 20 What good deedes God requireth for the dead Ruth Noemi The good deedes done vnto the dead by Booz Ruth 4. c. 10 Mat. 1. 3. 3 The Authours institutors of the funâ—ralls Pluto Diedo Aeneal Virg. Aene. 5 Ouid. Fast 2. 5 Romulus Plutar. in Romulo Plato de repub li. 12. After death the parents and friends can doe uothuig Diuers sacriliâ—ces for the dead for diuers causes Virg. Aene. 5 The opinion of the Rabius and Doctors of â—ae levvs touching the body The dwell Aâ—izel Geâ— of 3.