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A54947 A private conference between a rich alderman and a poor country vicar made publick wherein is discoursed the obligation of oaths which have been imposed on the subjects of England : with other matters relating to the present state of affairs. Pittis, Thomas, 1636-1687. 1670 (1670) Wing P2316; ESTC R26884 111,578 274

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whatsoever either granted and commended to the trust and managery of the Kings Majesty or else joyned and annexed to the Imperial Crown of this Kingdom Part of which there is none that understands any thing of the State of his Country or Religion but immediately reckons Spiritual or Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction for correction and amendment of all Errors and abuses in Church Affairs To enter therefore into a League and Covenant contradicting and violating a former Oath that plucked also a choice Jewel out of our Sovereigns Crown and entrenched upon his Royal Prerogative is an Action to be abandoned by Mankind and damned to that place to which it is to be feared it has condemned many a Promoter Ald. These methinks are hard words and were it not a derogation to my Honour and a blemish upon my Grandeur I could almost be sorry and sigh for my taking it But I hope as I was saying but now I shall pass still among the Herd Vic. Truly Sir without repentance it must be amongst the Goats then and I would advise you and if in any thing I may inform then in this to be serious where Eternity will be the measure either of your bliss or misery Will you be pleased that I shall proceed to the third reason Ald. Yes to any thing so as I may be rid of those I have already heard Vic. Then thirdly your Worship must easily grant that it was not imposed by a sufficient power For an Oath cannot lawfully be taken by a person subject to another in relation to those particulars in which his subjection is due or to constitute any thing or confirm it by such a Solemn Sanction concerning those matters in which he is lawfully subjected without the leave and permission of his Superiour First Because in this he does an injury to another and obliges himself to injustice by an Oath because he determines and disposes of those matters and affairs that are totally dependent upon anothers Commands And Secondly because every one in those things in which he is subjected to a Superiour is bound to attend and obey his Will and be passive only in relation unto his disposal to whom he has been obliged either by Nature Contract or a precedent Oath which no subsequent can disanul And though these Reasons are ponderous enough to weigh down whatever can be produced to the contrary yet if you try them by the weights of the Sanctuary you will not find a grain deficient For the thirtieth of Numbers is throughout the whole a compleat confirmation of this particular where if a woman remaining in her Fathers House whilest she is under his tuition and Government vow a Vow unto God and bind her self by a most Sacred Bond that Bond and Vow though never so solemn was to be null and void if her Father disallowed it Ald. But the Holy League I hope was no such thing that was cloathed with such unluckie Circumstances Vic. Yes Sir that it was For first the King not only disallowed but protested against it so far was he from giving it the least Contenance or Sanction And had he indeed consented to that he knew he should seale his own ruine as well as violate his Coronation Oath and make a Deed of Gift of all his Prerogative Ald. Then it seems this way a Net that would have entangled and catched both King and Subject Vic. It was a Net Sir that was fit to fish with in troubled waters for had not the Rivers been stained with bloud and the Clouds of Heaven as well as the Mud of the Earth darkned the Waters it is impossible that so much fish should have come to net the Web being so monstrously big that all that had eyes would have seen the Snare but so it was that it had fatal Circumstances attending it that it might prove a ruine to such a People that were out of love with their own beauty murmured and repined at their own plenty and were willing to abandon their blessings and felicity Ald. Well Sir I have no reason to say much agaiast what you reply but I can bear witness to the Old Proverb that it was good fishing in troubled waters But pray make good your second particular that the matter of the Covenant was not within our own power Vic. That I shall make good to your Worship too But first I must take notice by the by that your Worship would make a good Pope for that you have I perceive got a special Argument to prove your self St. Peters Successour because you have catched such fish as brought money in their mouths Ald. I tell you Sir I had rather have my Shop full of them than of Red Herrings Vic. Well there 's salt however in a Red Herring but I never knew your Worship so covetous before however let us throw aside the fish for the present and take up the Net The matter of the Covenant was not within your own power because those very things which you Covenanted to alter and extirpate and what you swore to defend and maintain were all contrary to that duty and subjection which before both by Birth and Oaths you owed to his Majesty Ald. How so Vic. But that I must allow to your Worship the infirmities of Old Age and account your memory as short as your days I could else tell you that but just now it was plainly evinced to be quite opposite to our Natural Obligations to our Oaths of Allegeance and Supremacy and not only tended to the diminution but the total destruction of the Kings Prerogative Ald. You are something zealous in your cause Mr. Vicar Vic. Not so zealous as your Worship was formerly in yours my Zeal is neither so hot as to boyle over into raging fury nor yet so blind as not to see its own Object and yet I hope I shall obtain your Worships pardon if so much discourse begins to make me a little warm Ald. I hope this Town stands in an Air that is able to cool you and therefore pray make your last particular a little plainer Vic. I shall chearfully undertake that task and I most humbly thank your Worship for your patience You know omitting the Proem and Conclusion the Covenant consisted of six Articles Every one of which is quite opposite to that obedience you before were engaged for to his Majesty besides the forfeiture of that Religion your Fore-fathers died for Ald. I would fain hear this proved Vic. That you shall certainly Sir without injury to any thing but your own patience As to your Religion the two first Articles do so palpably offer violence to that it not only demolishing the present structure of our most famous Churches but utterly extirpating that pious and most ancient Order of Bishops without which some doubt whether the Christian Church can have its being and by this means leaving us as much as in it lies without any future hopes of a true Priesthood Ald. But how does it oppugne that obedience