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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A95750	A nevv discovery of old pontificall practises for the maintenance of the prelates authority and hierarchy. Evinced by their tyranicall persecution of that reverend, learned, pious, and worthy minister in Jesus Christ, Mr. John Udall, in the raigne of Queene Elizabeth. To give satisfaction to all those that blindely endeavour to uphold episcopall government, that their lordly rule in the purest times of the said queene, is the very same with that they have exercised ever since, even to these times. Together with the prelates devises to make him submit, and to subscribe to submissions of their own contriving and invention. And also King James his letter out of Scotland to the queene, in the behalfe of Mr. Vdall and all other persecuted ministers in her realme.	Udall, John, 1560?-1592.; James I, King of England, 1566-1625.	1643 (1643)	Wing U14; Thomason E87_6; ESTC R212794	52,416	53

againe unto Mr. Nowell earnestly charging him to take my case to heart seeing he had promised to procure me favour whereupon I wrote unto him this letter following RIght Worshipfull Mr. Nowell as I did rejoyce when I perceived that you were imployed to deale with mee about my submission because of that Reverend estimation that you have bin so long of among the Worthies in the Church of God hoping that I I should have found thereby some comfortable meanes of meditation unto authority for my release so I am now occaisoned to feare that all that credit with you are of shall be used as an instrument to further and hasten extremity upon me For so much time being passed since I voluntarily yeelded to that submission which you brought unto me and no liberty appearing from any place but rather that being given out that my submission shall be a speciall meanes to hasten my death and no way to procure my liberty I am constrained to write unto you to let you understand that as I looke for that end the next weeke at the Assises at Kingston where I have been a Preacher which hath so long bin threatned but to the doubling of my torments deferred whereunto I doubt not the Lord will strengthen me as graciously he hath hitherto done So I pray you as you will answer unto God for my blood which I am perswaded your credit being imployed to the uttermost as in the word and faith of a Christian you promised might have preserved that you would so take my case to heart as it may inforce you to leave no stone unturned which may either further my liberty or at lest cleere your conscience from being any way accessary to my death For it will one day bee an heavy thing to your heart to thinke that you should be set on worke and the accompt that is worthily made of you imployed under pretence yea and as it were with assurance of life and liberty to draw that from a Preacher and Professor of the gospel which afterward shall be used to hasten his end and you will say it had bin better that you had never bin of any reckoning then to bee made an Instrument to further such an action This I write unto you not in any troubled affection with the feare of death for I thanke God I am willing to end my daies and if it please the Lord even in this manner and hope that my death shall further the cause for which I suffer more then my life But lest I should neglect any meanes which might seeme to be a furtherance to prevent the same or leave that dutie unperformed unto you which I take my selfe in conscience bound to discharge the Lord make us willing and able to discharge every good dutie that he enjoyneth us to his glory the good of his Church and our own comfort whether by l●fe or death About the same time came a Letter from the King of Scotland to a Scotish Merchant one Mr. Iohnson lying in London to be delivered to her Majesty as was said being written in my behalfe as he had done once before when I was close prisoner this Letter did the Merchant deliver to her Majesty and the Dean of Pauls upon my Letter went to the Councell whereby whatsoever was wrought as soone as the Judges heard that I was brought to Kingstone where the Assises were then kept I was immediately returned unto the White-Lyon in the evening before the first day thereof Afterward Mr. Iohnson had the Copy of the Kings Letter sent unto him which then appeared to be written not for me alone but also for the rest of my Brethren the Ministers in prison for the same cause of Discipline the tenor of which Letter here followeth RIght Excellent high and mighty Princesse our dearest Sister and Cousen in our heartiest manner we recommend us unto you Heareing of the apprehension of Mr. Udall and Mr. Cartwright and certaine other Ministers of the Evangell within your Realme of whose good erudition and fruitfull travells in the Church we heare a very credible commendation howsoever that their diversitie from the Bishops and others of your Clergy in matters touching them in conscience hath bin a meane by their dilation to worke them your misliking at this present we cannot weighing the duty which we owe to such as are afflicted for their conscience in that profession but by our most effectuous and earnest Letter interpone us at your hands to any harder usage of them for that cause Requesting you most earnestly that for our cause and intercession it may please you to let them be relieved of their present straite and whatsoever further accusation or pursuite depending on that ground respecting both their former merit in setting forth of the Evangell the simplicitie of their conscience in this defence which cannot well be their let by compulsion and the great slander which could not faile to fall out upon their further straiting for any such occasion which we assure us your zeale to Religion besides the expectation we have of your good will to pleasure us will willingly accord to our request having such proofes from time to time of our like disposition to you in any matters which you recommend unto us And thus Right Excellent Right High and Mighty Princes our deare Sister and Cozen we commit you to Gods good protection From Edenborough the 12th ' Day of June 1591. The just Copy of the Kings Letter sent to her Majestie PResently upon these things fell out that wretched matter of that lewd fellow H●cket whereby the adversary did take occasion so to slander the truth and to disgrace the Professors of the same unto her Majestie that I thought it bootelesse to sue And so I did little til the Lord Chancellor was dead and forgotten by such as were sorry for it so that about Easter terme following I sued for liberty to goe to Church which was denyed mee being a condemned man but by the Lord Treasurers meanes I got a copy of my Inditement which before I could not obtaine HEreupon I getting a pardon framed according to the Inditement sent it with a Petition by my Wife to the Councell who referred mee to the Arch-bishop unto whom I both sent diverse Petitions and dutifull Letters and also got many of my freinds both honourable personages and others to sue to him yet could not his good will be gotten At last the Turkie merchants having my consent to goe for a time into Guynea to teach their people that abide in that place if they could procure my liberty sent unto him for his consent who promised his good will so that they would be bound that I should goe indeed when I had my liberty But when two of the Auncients of the Company went unto him for his hand thereunto he would not yeeld it unlesse they would be bound not onely that I should goe which they were willing unto but also that I should tarry there till I had her Majesties licence to come thence This Condition they could not yeeld unto for that I denyed to go upon any such ground so was their suite and my hope of liberty at an end saving that one Mr. Ca●ell who had bin the first beginner of it and being to goe into Turkie did most affect it moved the Deane of Pauls in it who thereupon wrote unto my Lord Keeper perswading him of the conveniencie of that Journey for me and my fitnesse thereunto which letter when he received he did so deale with the Arch-bishop as they both promising at their next meeting at Court to deale with her Majestie to signe my pardon that so I might have liberty to goe the Voyage FJNJS

one Roch. Your sentence f●r this time is to goe to the Gate-house close Prisoner and you are beholding to my Lords here that they have heard you so long Vda I acknowledge it and do humbly thanke their Honours for it And when they were all gon my Lord Cobham stayed me to speake to me who told me that it might be he and others wished things to be amended as well as I but the time served not and therefore he wished me not to stand in it and I praying his Lordships good favour he promised to do for me what he could for which I humbly thanked him and so was carried to the Gate-house by a Messenger who delivered me with a Warrant to be kept close prisoner and not be suffered to have pen inke or paper or any body to speak with me Thus I remained there halfe a yeare in all which time my wife could not get leave to come unto me saying only that in the heareing of the Keeper she might speake to me and I to her of such things as he should thinke meet notwithstanding that she made suit to the Commissioners yea unto the body of the Councell for some more liberty all which time my Chamber fellowes were Seminary Priests Traytors and professed Papists At the end of halfe a yeare I was removed to the VVhite-Lyon in Southwarke and so carried to the Assises at Croydon where what was done I will not mention seeing there were present such as were both able and I th●nk willing to set down unto whose report I refer those that would know the same A collection of such things as were truely gathered concerning the Arraignement of Mr. John Udall at the Assises at Croydon the 24. and 25. of Iuly 1590. noted faithfully by such as were beholders of the same MAster Iohn Vdall Minister of the word of God at Newcastle in the North being suspected to be the Author of a Booke called a Demonstration of Discipline was sent for to come to London who at his comming was committed close prisoner at the Gate-house at Westminster from whence after he had b●n kept close there the space of six moneths and above he was in like manner committed to the prison of the White Lyon in Southwarck and from thence the 22. of Iuly was carried to the Assises held at Croydon in the County of Surrey where were appointed for that Assises to be Judges Baron Clarke and Serjeant Puckering who according to the custome gave the charge of the Assises wherein Baron Clarke shewed the intent of their comming thither which he referred to 3 heads viz. The safety of the Church the good of the Common wealth and the preservation and honour of her most Excellent Majesty And then speaking of these in particular he shewed the great use and necessity of Laws and giving our Laws their due commendation hee preferred them before all other Laws of any other Nation in the world and further declared how neere they were for outward government to the Laws of God wherein he noted some particulars of them shewing that as the Laws of God did condemne Blasphemers Idolaters prophaners of the Sabath rebellious and disobedient against Superiours Murtherers Adulterers Thieves raylers and false witnesses for most of these or all of them hee shewed particular Statutes of our land that condemned them and shewed the punishments of them Then he shewed that as the law of God would not have any to be condemned but their cause must first be heard and that not in corners but in the gates and publique places that all might heare and see with what equity they were dealt withall so also our laws condemned none but in publique places and those that were accused had free liberty to say what they could for themselves and as the law of God condemned none but in publique places and when there were witnesses to prove the guiltinesse of the offenders so also our law condemneth none but plaine evidences and true witnesses must be produced against them Many other things he spake of which is too long to rehearse but this is the sum of it After the charge given the prisoners were brought forth amongst whom Mr. Vdal● came having fetters on his leggs which moved many greatly to lament to see a Minister of the Gospell brought the foremost as principall of so many Malefactors then were the prisoners called by name and answered severally to their names who were no further dealt withall for that time by reason of many other things that the Judges were busied withall the next day in the morning the Iudges being set and the prisoners standing at the Bar one Iohn Pepper a felon and a robber by the high way was called forth to answer to his Inditement and according to the order he held up his hand at the Bar and pleaded for himselfe that he was not guilty and being demanded by whom he would be tried he referred himselfe to be tried by God and and the Country After whom there were five or six others called and were tried as the first was Then was Mr. Vdall called and commanded to hold up his hand at the Bar who held up his hand accordingly Then was his Inditement read being thus Iohn Vdall late of London Clerke thou art indited c. The forme of which Inditement was as against murtherers namely that he not having the feare of God before his eyes but being stirred up by the instigation and motion of the Devill did maliciously publish a slanderous and infamous libell against the Queenes Majesty her Crown and Dignity and being asked wheteher he were guilty or not guilty he answered thus Vda My Lords may it please you to heare me a word or two Iud. Cla. Answer first to the Iuditement and then you shall be heard Vda My Lords I beseech you heare me first a word or twaine Iud. Say on Vda My case is rare and such as hath not bin heard of heretofore and consisteth upon divers points of law I humbly crave of your Lordships to grant me to Answere by Councell if it may be Iud. Cl. You cannot have it and therefore answer to your Inditement Vda Then I answer my Lrods that I am not guilty Iud. Cl. How wil● thou he tried Vda I do desire to be tried by an Inquest of learned men but seeing I shall not I am contented to be tried by the ordinary course as these men before me are that is as you use to say By God and the Country Then the Clerke of the Assises said to the parties A raigned after he had read the names of the Iury before them These men whose names you have heard are to goe upon your lives and your deaths loooke upon them when they are called to be sworne and if you know any cause take exception against them Then the rest of the Felons haveing nothing to say Mr. Vdall said My Lords I am ignorant of the law in this point I pray you therefore shew me the manner

of challenging the Jury how many I may challenge and whether I may render a reason of the same Iu. I think you will know a cause in your conscience before you challenge any of them Vd. Then I pray you my L. how many am I by law permitted to challenge Iud. Nay I am not to t●ll you that I sit to judge and not to give you counsell Then Mr. Vdal keeping silence Proclamation was made according to the manner that if any man could give in evidence against Iohn Vdall prisoner at the Bar that they should come into the Court and be heard Then Mr. Daulton stood up And in the meane while Mr. Vdall said to the Iudges thus My Lords I beseech you answer me to one question before Mr. Daulton begin to speake Jud. Sa● on Vda Is it permitted me by law to answer to those things in particular which are brought to prove this Indictment Jud. It is permitted Vda Then I humbly crave of your Lordships to grant me two Petitions which I thinke will greatly further both him in speaking me in answering and also be a more ready helpe to the memory of the Jury that they may be able to beare the matter away Jud What are your Petitions Vda The first is that when Mr. Daulton hath spoken to one point what he can I may answer to that before he proceed any further lest my memory being overwhelmed with multitude of matter I should forget to answere to some points of importance and the Jury made the l●sse able to discerne of the particulars The second is that it might please you to grant me to answer without interruption Jud. You shall have them b●th granted Dau. Then Mr. Daulton said Mr. Udall you have these Petitions grandte you I desire the same of you And then he desiring leave of the Judges before he should prove the Indictment to say something touching this that this man and such as he is do maintaine c. After leave given him hee used a very long speech to the great disgrace and slander of the cause and those men that professed the same especially of Mr. Udall and making mention in the same his Speech of five severall Bookes of Common Prayer made by such as desire Reformation he affirmed that in one of the said Bookes there was horrible Blasphemy in these words of the consecration of the Lords Supper Take eate this is my Body drink this is my blood Then he cryed out saving Oh horrible ●lasphemy and taking occasion upon the variety of these Bookes he affirmed that there was no constancy in these men And whereas one of the Bookes doth allow that over every Congregation there should be a faithfull Pastor that is quoth hee a Shepheard whereby they may take the Government out of her Majesties hand and so bring her Majesty to be one of their Sheepe no quoth hee her Majesty is no Sheepe under any Shepheard in the wo●ld except Christ and for the government that these men do seeke for I am assured there is none such to be found in the word of God Vda Mr. Daulton hath used a very large speech which doth nothing concerne to prove the Indictment or me in particular and therefore seeing I am not called hither to dispute and if I would I should not be permitted I will not answer it onely thus much will I say if it please your Lordships that seeing Mr. Daulton is by profession a Lawyer and the cause is yet in question amongst the learned Divines methinks it had bin more modesty for Mr. Daulton to have suspend●d ●●s judgement un ill the Controversie had bin determined amongst them to whose profession it belongeth especially seeing Mr. Daulton knoweth in his conscience that he hath heretofore carried some shew of ●●keing to the cause which now he speaketh against Jud. Sirra Sirra answer to the matter that Mr. Daulton hath against you Mr. Daulton proceed to the proofe of the points of the Indictment Daul My masters you of the Jury c. I will prove first that he had a malicious intent in making of this Booke secondly that he is the Author of it and thirdly that these matters contained in the Indictment are Felony by the Statute Eliz. 23. cap. 2. Then was Mr. Beadle the Register called who was sworne that these Examinations following were as the parties themselves confessed the same And to prove the first the Clarke of the Assises caused Stephen Chatfield to be called into the Court to give in evidence against Iohn Vdall but he appeared not at all for which the Judges were offended and Sergeant Puckering said there was a Warrant sen● for him whereupon some standing by affirmed that the Warrant came after his departure from home Then Mr. Daulton said that he went out of the way of purpose and Iudge Clarke said Mr. Vdall you are glad of that Mr. Vdall answered Vda My Lords I wish heartily he had bin here for as I am sure he never could say any thing against me to prove this point so I have heard and am able to prove it to be true that he is very sorry that ever he made any complaint against me confessing he did it in his anger when Martin came first out and by their suggestions whom he hath proved since by experience to be very bad men Dault. It is no great matter whether he be here or no for we have his Articles against you and your own confession to prove this point sufficiently Then were Mr. Chatfields Articles that he brought to the Arch-Bishop against Mr. Vdall read by the Clarke containing a report of certaine written papers tending as he supposed to the making of such a Booke as this is and thereupon asked Mr. Vdall whose writing they were who answered they are a friends of mine whereunto Chatfield replied wishing him to take heed of them and to rid his hands of them and to returne them to his friend from whom he had them for he doubted they concerned the State These papers he saw in Mr. Vdall Study at Kingston Also he further saith that at an other time he having conferred with Mr. Udall in a certaine field by Kingston called little field about his putting to silence he saith that the said Mr. Vdall uttered these words That if they put him to silence he would give the Bishops such a blow as they never had Vda May it please your Lordships that I may answer to these things in particular Jud. Say on let us heare your Answer Vda I was accused this time two yeares upon the words of Chatfield that these papers that he did see in my studie should be the matter of Martyn Mar-prelate and because I cleared my selfe of that it is now brought to prove an other matter but it proveth nothing unlesse it were set downe in particular what they were Daul It proveth this that you had a purpose to write this Booke and those things were collections from your friends and

Vda My Lord I answer that according to my inditement I am not guilty every point whereof must be proved or else the whole is false And I beseech your Lordships give me leave and I will be very briefe My conscience doth not accuse me that I have so much as offended her Majestie her Councell or the meanest of her people in any thing I have done concerning this cause for if I should of all other I deserved the least favour being one that professed to teach others loyaltie to her Majestie and love one to another and would you have mee to confesse a fault where there is none no I cannot doe it neither will I wherefore proceed in your course begun Daul We have yet more proofe then this though yet this were sufficient of it selfe wherefore read the other examinations Then was read the confession of Henry Sharpe of Northampton who upon his oath before my Lord Chancellor had said that he ●eard Mr. Penry say that Mr. Vdall was the Author of the Demonstration Vda Sharpe and I were never above once in company together to my remembrance neither knew hee ever any of my dealings This is nothing to prove me the Author of the Booke reports bee uncertain and if reports be true the Archbishop himselfe told mee that Mr. Penry made it which is more forcible for mee then any of Sharpes reports can be against me Daul You mistake the matter the force of the point resteth in Mr Penryes report who was one of your great acquaintance and familiars and you and Walgrave and he were at Mrs. Cranes house Vda Here is one mans saying that another said so let the Iury consider of what force this proofe is if you have any more let it appeare Iudg. Clarke You of the Iury have not to enquire whether he be guilty of the Fel●ny but whether he be the Author of the Booke for it is already set downe by the judgement of all the Iudges in the Land that whosoever was author of that booke was guilty the Statute of Felony and this is declared ab●ve halfe a yeere ag●ne Vda Though it be so determined already yet I pray your Lordships give me leave to shew that which I have to say and I will be very briefe and it is to prove that though I were found to be the author yet it cannot be within the compasse of that Stature An. 23. Eliz. cap. 2. whereupon the inditement is framed Iudg. You shall be heard to say for your selfe what you can therefore say on Vda Though I bee not by Profession a lawyer yet I thinke I can shew it clearely by these reasons following First The intent of the law-makers which alwaies is to bee regarded in these cases is to bee considered which appeareth in the Preface of the Statute in these words To suppresse the malice of those that be evill affected to her highnesse Now I pray you consider this how can it be or how is it possible that a Preacher of the same Religion which her Majestie professeth and maintaineth who is known continually to pray unto God for her highnesse prosperity and happinesse both of soule and Body How is it possible I say that such a one should bee maliciously affected towards her Therefore it is evident that the Statute was made against the Papists who use to slander her Highnesse with the tearmes of Heretique c. and no way against us for I dare boldly say of my selfe and in the name of all my brethren Cursed is he of God and he deserveth doubtlesse to be hated of men that doth imagine the least hurt against her Highnesse Secondly the matter that maketh a man a Felon by that Statute must proceeed from a malicious intent against her highnesse which I or any such as I am can no way justly be charged with pattly for that which is said before and partly for that my course of teaching and living in this Country these 9 yeares saving this last yeere wherein I have been absent is known to have tended to no other end then the provoking and perswading of the people to like of and yeeld obedience unto her Majestie and the Religion received in her Dominions for the proofe whereof I referre my selfe to the consciences of all men in the Country that have knowne me And further it is likely that I who have bin trayned up in the Universities under Her Majesties protection and have alwaies bended my Studies to the advancement of the sincerity of the Gospell so that those small crums of learning which I have gatheted I doe acknowledge to have received by her Majesties meanes These things considered how can it be that I should bee evill affected towards her Highnesse whom I protest I unfaynedly reverence And therefore the worst that the author can be charged withall is his overheat and to much vebemency by reason of his zeale against the abuses and not any malice against her Majestie or the meanest of her subjects Againe the matter to bring it within the compasse of the Statute must be false But this booke is written in the behalf of a most true cause Lastly the end of it must be either to the defamation of the Queenes Majestie or stirring up of insurrection sedition or Rebellion For the former I trust that the whole course of our behaviour both in our Ministery and conversation declareth it selfe to bee so farre from seeking to defame her highnesse as it tendeth to the uttermost of our powers to the advancement of her Honour For I am perswaded that there is none of us that would refuse to undergoe any paine whereby her Majestie might any way be the better honoured yea wee would not refuse if need so required to lay downe our lives for redeeming of the least aking of her majesties little finger wherewith shee might bee grieved Now for the second end which is the moving or staring ●p of Rebellion c. I pray your Lordships and you of the Iury to consider this There have beene since the first day of her majesties Raign learned men that have desired the advancemen● of this cause and many of the people that affected it and yet hath it never appeared that by occasion hereof there hath in all this time bin any in any place that have raised any Insurrection or sedition yea this booke which is now in question hath bin extant these 2 yeeres yet I trust neither your Lordships nor any here present can shew that any people in any corner of the Land nay it cannot be justly proved that any one person hath taken any occasion hereby to enterprize any such matter and therefore the making of this book cannot be Felony Besides all this if there had bin any such thing meant by the Author or received by the people as the Indictment chargeth me withall which is the defamation of her Highnesse government yet as I take it it should not be felony by that Statute for the whole course of it

declareth that it is onely meant of them that defame her Highnesse Person and not her Government as it is manifest by the last proviso wherein it is shewed that the whole Statute doth determine and end with her Majesties life and we may not thinke their wisdoms that made the Law to be so unadvised as to make a Law for the preservation of the Princes Government which is continuall to last no longer then the life of one Prince which is temporary Therefore it seemeth that the Statute hath no further regard then this that her Highnesse person might be preserved in that Honour and dignity which becometh her Royall Dignity and Estate And I do beseech your Lordships to answer me for I appeale to your consciences as you will answer to God for my life and I pray you tell the Iury whether you do thinke the intent of the Statute were in any sort meant against us and not rather against the Papists Iud. Puck Iudge Puckering said you do not well to charge us so with our consciences which God only is to know I answere you the intent of the Statute is against all for so the words are Vdall The words my Lord I confesse are so but is the principall intent so Iud. Yea it is so Iud. Cla. We have heard you speake for your selfe to this point at large which is nothing to excuse you for you cannot excuse your selfe to have done it with a malicious intent against the Bishops and that exercising that Government which the Queene hath appointed them and so it is by consequent against the Queene Vda My Lords I am perswaded that the Author did it not of any malice against them and for my selfe I protest I wish them as much good as I do to my own soule and will pray to God to give them repentance But the cause why the Author did so earnestly inveigh against them was this as it seemeth because he perceived them not only to execute an Authority which he taketh to be unlawfull by the word of God but also for that they do not the tenth part of that good even in those corrupt callings which by Law they might doe and I am perswaded that your Lordships know in your owne consciences that they doe not the tenth part of that they are bound to doe Iud. Clar. That is true they do not the good that they might do but yet that doth not excuse you for It is plaine in your Booke that you writ not against them onely but you writ against the State for is it not against the State when you say that it is more easier to live in England a Papist an Anabaptist of the Family of Love and what not yea you say I could live so in a Bishops house it may be these twenty yeares and never be much molested for it what is this but a plaine standering of the State and marke the words for you say you could live so in England And doth her Majesties Laws allow of Papists this maketh eviden●ly against you and it is so plaine that you cannot deny it Vda My Lords if it might please you to heare me a word or two I will shew the meaning of the Author of the Booke I beseech you to heare me and I will be very briefe I know that the Laws of England do not allow of any such as are mentioned in the Booke for there are godly Laws made for the punishing of them if they were put in execution But this I take to be the Authors meaning that it is not spoken in respect of her Majesties Government and Laws but in respect of the Bishops whom your Lordships know to be wholly imployed in finding us out and punishing of us not regarding in a manner the punishing any sinne else Iud. What Sirra will you not confesse any fault to be in the Booke you seeke to excuse all Vda My Lords I do acknowledge that there was never any worke of man so perfect but there have bin imperfections in the same and therefore there may be some fault in the manner but surely none in the matter for the Bishops themselves will confesse that they may faile in their actions and be partiall as they are men in the manner of handling of any thing so also the Author of this Booke being assured that the matter is without reproofe may erre in the manner in being over-zealous in the handling of it and this fault I will easily confesse to be in the Booke my Lords but I am sure the Author never had any malicious intent against her Highnesse or any of her Subjects Iud. Clar. This Booke hath made you to come within the compasse of the Statute though your intent were not so for I am sure there was Mr. Stubbs well knowne to divers here to be a good Subject and an honest man yet taking upon him to write a a Booke against her Majesty touching Mounseir he thereby came within the compass● of Law which he intended not in making of the Booke and I am perswaded that he did it of a good affection towards her Majesty and yet if this Law had bin made then which was made since he had died for it so you though you intended not to come within the compasse of the Statute yet the Law reacheth to your fact as that did to his Vda My Lords his case and mine is not alike for his booke concerned her Highnesse person but the Author of this Booke toucheth only the corruptions of the Bishops and therefore not the person of her Majesty Iud. But I will prove this booke to be against her Majesties person for her Majesty being the supreame Governor of all persons and causes in these her Dominions hath established this kinde of government in the hands of the Bishops which thou and thy f●llows so strive against and they being set in Authority for the exercising of this Government by her Majesty thou dost not strive against them but her Majesties person seeing they cannot alter the Government which the Queene hath laid upon them Vda My Lords we are not ignorant of this that her Majesty hath a care that all things might be well and in that respect hath given them often in charge upon the considerations of these controversies to see to it that nothing be amisse and because she hath a good opinion of them for their gravity and learning she believeth them when they say all is well and in good case whereas if they had the grace to looke into these things and to make them knowne as they be indeed her Majesty and the State I doubt not would quickly redresse them and therefore was it that the Author did so charge them Then the Iudge proceeding further in the booke to prove him to have offended he tooke occasion by the same to speake against railing against Magistrates and speaking to Mr. Vdall he said in effect thus Iud. Cla. Sirra you that should have bin a teacher of her

downe but this is in effect the substance of it concluding he said Thus much Mr. Vdall have your speeches enforced me to speake least the people here present being deceived should be carried away by it To which Mr. Vdall answered briefly Vda My Lords it is bootelesse for me to enter disputation with you in this place touching this matter onely this I could wish you to leave it to be first decided by the learned Divines to whose calling it belongeth And although some weak men wan●ing iudgement have bin headily carryed in seeking the furtherance of this cause and so for want of this government have runne into some errors yet it is no reason to charge us with them for your Lordships know that wee have been the men that have taken the greatest paines to reclaime them to the joyning of themselves with the Church from which they have separated themselves Iudg. Clar. You are deceived it is not a matter of Divinity onely but it is a matter of State and within the compasse of our Profession and it is not so greatly in controversie as you would have us to beleeve it is Vd. It is diversly debated my Lords and the greatest number of learned men in Christendome doe maintaine the same Iudg. How doe you know that have you bin beyond the Seas to know the greatest number of learned men to be of this judgement Vdall Your Lordships know that all the Churches of France the low Countries and of Scotland doe maintaine the same besides many hundreds of learned men in this land Iudg. Have you been in all these Churches that you can tell so much Vda I know it to be true my Lords for their practise doth shew them to be of this judgement Iu. Well if you can alleadg no more neither will submit your self to the Queens mercy then heare your judgement Vda My lords I was beginning to speake but you interrupted me I pray you heare me what I will say and then do as God shall move you Iud. Let us heare what you will say Vda As I said before so I say now I beleeve the cause to be the undoubted truth of God and therefore in the matter I cannot by any meanes yeeld yet seeing by your order of law I am found to be guilty neither can I for the reverence I beare to her majesties lawes take any exceptions against you nor the Iury but that which you have done I acknowledge to bee done in all equity and right Seeing I say you have found me to bee guilty whereby I cannot live without h●r majesties gracious and speciall favour I acknowledge that whatsoever I have done to the advancement of the cause I may offend in the manner in which respect if I have offended seeing it hath pleased your Lordships and the Iury to find mee guilty I doe willingly submit my selfe and heartily crave her majesties pardon Iud. But are you sorry that you have offended the Queenes Majesty Vda I am sorry that the course of the Law hath found me to have offended Iudg. So is every Thiefe that is c●ndemned sorry that his offence is found out but not for the fact This is a plaine fallacy Vda My Lord indeed if it were so as your Lordship doth understand it it were a plaine fallacy but I say further if in the manner of handling so good a cause there be found in me any offence against her Majesties Lawes And I acknowledge that in the manner of handling it Her Majestie may be justly offended for which I am sorry And I protest that I have never gone about to advance it by any other meanes then by manifesting it to all men and tendering it to them in authority and that by such meanes as might not be contrary to the Laws of this Land that so it might be received by Her Majesty and the State and this is the care of us all howsoever we be charged with factions Iud. You say if there ●e found any offence whereby you call in question the equity of dealing in this Court against you Vda My Lords I do not neither will I let it be looked into by you and the rest whom it concerneth I hope you would not deale otherwise then lawfully against me Iud. Puck You say you seeke no unlawfull meanes what can be meant but unlawfull meanes in the words of your Booke If it come in by that meanes that will make all your hearts to ake blame your selves What good meanes ca● bee meant by th●se word● Vdall My Lords yesterday I shewed you what I tooke to bee the meaning of the Author in some places of the booke alleadged against me in the Inditement and then I would have spoken unto all but you cut me off I pray you therefore let me shew you the meaning of the Author in those words now Iudg. Let us heare you how you expound it Vda My Lords your Lordships must understand that the Author taketh it for graunted that the cause is Gods and must prevaile and therefore seeing God hath used all the meanes of his mercy to bring it in in giving us a gracious Prince ●ong peace and aboundance and of stirring up some to exhibite s●●plications to the Parliament these things not prevailing in his mercy he will bring 〈…〉 some judgement as plague or famine or some such like 〈…〉 his is alwaies the manner of Gods dealing 〈…〉 〈…〉 expound it so for the words import another thing 〈…〉 〈…〉 the Author himselfe expoundeth it so in the words follow 〈…〉 saith that it must prevaile for such a judgment will overtake this Land 〈…〉 eares of all that heare thereof to tingle so that he meaneth nothing 〈…〉 God will bring it in by his owne hand by judgment if by mercy hee can 〈…〉 Iud. No no your meaning was that it should be brought in by force and violence Vda God forbid farre be it from us to conceive any such Imagination The Author of that booke doth plainely shew that hee meant no such thing and the words following in the end of the Epistle doe declare the same for there he sheweth by whom it is to be brought in namely by Her Majesty and her Honourable Counsellors that they may see it and establish the same Iudg. Nay the meaning is that if the Queene will not yet you say it shall come in for so the words are that it must prevaile maugre the heads of all that stand against it Vda Nay my Lords the words are maugre the malice of all that stand against it for there are many heads that are not maliciously bent against it there is great difference betweene malice and ●eads for some are against the cause through ignorance Iud. It is all one in effect Vda Nay my Lords there is great difference Iud. Puck Well Mr. Vdall you were best to submit your selfe to the Queenes mercy and leave these courses for I tell you that your Booke is most seditio●s and slanderous against her Majestie and the