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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63176	The tryal of Henry Baron Delamere for high-treason, in Westminster-Hall, the 14th day of January, 1685, before the Right Honourable George Lord Jeffreys, Baron of Wemm, Lord High Chancellour of England, constituted Lord High Steward on that occasion on which day, after a full hearing, the Lord Delamere was acquitted from all matters laid to his charge.	Warrington, Henry Booth, Earl of, 1652-1694, defendant.	1686 (1686)	Wing T2189; ESTC R23568	84,177	92

himself and Engage in such an Enterprize in Separation from those other Lords of whose Help there would be so much need He said he could not help it they had appointed this time and that but now when it came to the push they were not ready to do their parts but the People were now in such expectation of something to be done especially in London that it was impossible to restrain them and as impossible to get those Lords ready to joyn with them I told him I was altogether unacquainted with the proceedings in this Affair and that all of it was wholly new to me But pray My Lord said I give me leave to Act that part in this business that I think will most conduce to the Successful Issue of it which is to be a Mediator between You and let me desire you to let things rest as they are till I have endeavoured to Create a better Understanding between your Lordship and those Lords of whose Tergiversation you seem to complain Upon this my Lord was in a great heat and express'd himself with great warming but at last with much ado he gave me Permission to go to the Duke of Monmouth and assure him and the rest of the Lords that were concern'd and tell them from him That if they would be ready to take the Posts that were assign'd them according to their own former Agreement and immediately enter upon Action he would joyn with them but if not he was resolved to go on alone This was as I remember upon Tuesday the Second of October upon the Wednesday Morning I went to find out the Duke of Monmouth but coming to his Lodgings he was gone to Moor-Pank where when I came I found several Persons with him I but after a little time I separated him from the Company and whispering to him I gave him to understand how great a Disorder I found my Lord Shaftsbury in and how great a Complaint he made of his being deserted by him and the other Lords engaged with him and what Resolution he had taken to set upon the Work alone My Lord sayes he I think the Man is Mad his Fear makes him lose his Understanding I do not know why he hides himself from his Friends that no body can telll where he is but as to that which he speaks of oft our forsaking him and breach of Faith he is mistaken For 't is true indeed we are about doing the Thing that he is so eager for but we are not for doing it so hastily as his Fears precipitate him to do and he must excuse us if we Comply not with his Humour to hazard the whole Undertaking by a rash beginning Upon that I said to him My Lord I shall not discourse the Particularities of the business with your Grace but this is all that I at present Address to your Grace for to be a means if I can with your Grace as I have been with him to procure a Meeting between you that you may Settle it with one another Withal my heart sayes the Duke pray let it be so for though my Lord Shaftsbury is angry without a cause yet I would not have him lose himself in a temerarious Undertaking My Lord said I I will tell him what you say and will see if I can work him to a Complyance with the Proposal The next day being Thursday my Lord I went to my Lord Shaftsbury again and reported to him the Discourse I had with the Duke of Monmouth and what Answer he had given to his Complaint of their deserting him He Reply'd It was false they had positively ingaged to be ready by such a time and had appointed the very Day but now they were off and would not tell when they would be ready and withal he told me he greatly suspected the Duke of Monmouth to have a secret Correspondence with the King I then desired him That he would please to consent to the Treaty that was proposed and give the Duke of Monmouth and the Lords a Meeting he in great heat Replyed No he would come no more at them It is strange my Lord said I that you should have such an Opinion of these Men that they would go about to betray you they are not Men of that size but he persisted in it that they had dealt perfidiously with him For after a positive Agreement when the Thing was brought just to the Birth they withdrew their helping-hand but he was sure in London he could Raise a sufficient Force to do the Work and if he were but once set on Horse-back he would Head them himself But yet he was willing to put it off for a Fortnight or three weeks longer if they would be sure to keep pace with him With this Proposal I went the next day which was Friday to the Duke of Monmouth and had the same Answer from him that I had before but withal he bid me tell my Lord Shaftsbury That he did make it his earnest Request to him to give him and his other Friends a Meeting before he Engaged in this business For he found by his precipitation he was about to Destroy himself and all that adhered to him Thereupon I came to my Lord Shaftsbury again upon the Saturday and when I came there after a long and importunate urging all the Arguments I could think of I so far prevailed with him that he agreed to give them a Meeting upon condition that it should be the next day and because it should be so private that no notice might be taken of it he chose to have the Meeting at his own House where no body would suspect him to be and whither he would be conveyed under the Disguise of a Parson I went back with this Message to the Duke of Monmouth who did undertake that the other Lords should be there Lord H. Steward My Lord Howard not to interrupt you Did he name those other Lords If he did pray acquaint my Lords who they were Lord Howard My Lord Shaftsbury named my Lord Russel and my Lord Gray and a great many more that should bear their parts I went to the Duke of Monmouth and told him of it I say and he engaged that they should certainly be there But upon the Sunday Morning when I came to the Temple there I found a Message left for me That my Lord Shaftsbury had receiv'd an Alarum That there were some great Toryes lived near his House in Aldersgate-Street who were continually Spying about and so great a Company might make their more than ordinary Observation That this gave him such a Jealousy as would not permit him to Meet according to his Appointment Afterwards I came to a better understanding of the Reason of this and found there was some fineness in it which I could not comprehend before But after this time I never saw my Lord Shaftsbury for he removed then to other Lodgings So that what I now speak of him is only what I had by

stop any where till he came to Middle-wich where the Countrey Militia were exercising and he just alighted off his Horse and spoke with Major Minshaw and some of the Officers but never so much as drunk by the way till he came to his own house L. H. Stew. What to his house in Staffordshire Kidd No but to Crew-Hall in Cheshire L. H. Stew. Does Mere lye in the Road between Sir Willoughby Aston's and Crew-Hall so that your Master might be there within that time Kidd No that he could not do L. H. Stew. Were you with Mr. Offley the whole Journey home Kidd Yes My Lord I was L. H. Stew. Were you no time from him Kidd No My Lord I was not L. H. Stew. What time did he come home Kidd He came to his own house about 4 or 5 a Clock at night L. H. Stew. And did not he go from thence that night Kidd No My Lord. L. Delamere Now My Lord I will prove as to my self that I was in London at the time as he speaks of And first I desire Sir James Langham may be heard to that He appeared but gave no Evidence L. Delamere Pray call Booth who appeared L. H. Stew. What is this Gentleman's name L. Delamere He is my Brother My Lord his Name is Booth L. H. Stew. What do you ask him L. Delamere Pray can you remember what time in June you saw me in Town here Mr. Booth My Lord I saw my Brother here in Town the 3 d 4 th 5 th 6 th and so on to the 10 th of June and the 10 th of June I went out of Town my self I saw him sometimes twice or thrice a day in that time for I did not lodge above half a score doors from him L. H. Stew. Where was that Mr. Booth In great Russel Street L. H. Stew. How come you to remember the time so particularly Mr. Booth It was that day Sennight before I went out of Town which was Wednesday the 10 th of June and had it not been for that particular circumstance I had not remark'd it so much as to be able particularly to remember it Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mr. Booth did you know of your Brothers going out of Town the 27 th of May Mr. Booth I heard he was gone out of Town about that time L. H. Stew. Why then when came he hither to Town again Mr. Booth I cannot tell but I saw him upon the 3 d of June in the Evening Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord it is not possible for him so to do in that time if he rode Post L. H. Stew. He did make a great deal of haste backward and forward that is certain L. Delamere My Brother does not know when I went but as he heard he says L. H. Stew. But pray my Lord mind the Objection that has been made for it carries a great deal of weight in it It is plainly proved by two Witnesses that you went out of Town the 27 th of May at 9 of the Clock at night and rode to Hoddesdon and the next day came to Hitchin about Noon then they left you and return'd back again to London that Night and you told them you were going to see a sick Child of yours in Cheshire how came you to make such Post-haste back again that he should see you here in London the 3 d of June Mr. Booth My Lord I am certain I saw him that day in the Evening and so on to the 10 th L. H. Stew. Did my Lord then tell you how your Friends did in Cheshire Mr. Booth I cannot remember the particular discourse we had Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir when did he tell you he came to Town L. H. Stew. You say you used to see him every day once or twice a day Mr. Booth Yes I did so L. H. Stew. Pray where was he the 2 d of June Mr. Booth He was not come to Town L. H. Stew. How long time was it before that that you had not seen him Mr. Booth I had not seen him of several days before L. Delamere If it please your Grace here is another Brother of mine that saw me at the same time and tho' he be my Brother I hope he is a good Witness L. H. Stew. Ay God forbid else what is his name L. Delamare George Booth L. H. Stew. Well what say you Sir Mr. George Booth My Lord I saw my Brother Delamere here in Town the 4 th of June by this particular circumstance which I cannot err in that the next day as I take it I went down with him to the House of Lords to hear my Lord Macclesfield's Cause which was then there to be heard upon the Appeal of Mr. Fitton and my Brother was in the House of Lords at that time which was the 5 th of June L. H. Stew. My Lord Delamere I think it not amiss to put you in mind of one thing which it is fit your Lordship should give some answer to Does your Lordship deny that you went out of Town the 27 th of May L. Delamere No My Lord I do not I acknowledge I did so L. H. Stew. Then it will be fit for you to give an account where you were the 28 th of May and so all along till the 3 d of June L. Delamere If you Grace please I hope I shall give you full satisfaction in that by and by but I have one witness more to this point of my being in Town at such a time that I could not be in Cheshire when this Fellow says I was and that is my Lord Lovelace L. H. Stew. There is my Lord Lovelace what will you ask him L. Delamere Whether he did not see me at the Tryal of my Lord Macclesfield in the House of Lords L. Lovelace I vvas in the House of Lords that day that my Lord Macclesfield's Tryal was and I remember I did see my Lord Delamere there L. H. Stew. But we are as much at a loss now as ever we were for what day that Tryal was does not appear What day was my Lord Macclesfield's Tryal L. Delamere The Journal of the House of Lords proves that to be the 5 th of June L. Lovelace My Lord stood just by the Bar and if I am not mistaken took notes L. Delamere My Lord I hope now I have satisfied your Grace and the rest of my Lords that none of us three whom this fellow has mentioned were there at that time at Mere when he says we were For my own part I do positively affirm and I speak it as in the presence of Almighty God that I have not seen Sir Robert Cotton at my house that I know of these many years and I believe Mr. Ossley was never in my House since I was Master of it And I do likewise protest that to my knowledge I never saw the face of this Man till now that be is produced as a witness against me I am sure I never spoke with him

according to the Methods of Law which must be observed in your Case as well as all others You must plead to the Indictment before you be heard to any thing else L. Delamere May it please your Grace I have something to offer to your Grace's and their Lordships consideration which is a matter of Law L. H. Steward I know not what matter of Law you have to offer If you have a mind to demur to the Indictment you may L. Delamere Will your Grace please to hear what I have to say and then I shall submit it to your Grace's Judgment L. H. Steward I would hear what you have to say my Lord with all my heart if I could But I must then pass by all the Forms and usual Methods of proceeding and that without any advantage to you too and that I suppose your Lordship will not desire of me Ask my Lord Whether he be guilty or not guilty Cl. of Cr. How sayst thou Henry Baron of Delamere Art thou guilty of this High Treason whereof thou hast been indicted or not guilty L. Delamere I beseech your Grace to hear me what I have to say I shall not detain your Grace very long but I beg your Grace to hear me L. H. Steward My Lord Delamere I must keep you to the known Rules and Methods of Law This is not your time to speak but to plead in your proper time you shall be fully heard whatsoever you have to say L. Delamere If your Grace please I have something to say which concerns all the Peers of England in point of Right L. H. Steward My Lord you must either plead or demur to this Indictment that is the usual Practice before any thing else can be done L. Delamere My Lord I have a Plea to offer to your Grace and my Lords and it is with reference to the Priviledg and Right of the Peers of England L. H. Steward If you have any Plea to offer it must be received my Lord. L. Delamere My Lord amidst the hardships I have lain under by my frequent Imprisonments and close Confinement L. H. Steward My Lord Delamere You must keep up to the Legal Method of Proceedings In Cases of this nature I would as far is possible for me to do indulge a Person of your Quality and in your condition but withal I must do right to the Court and not permit any Breach to be made upon the Legal Course of Proceedings You must plead or demurr to the Indictment before you are heard to say any thing L. Delamere Will your Grace be pleased to hear me tell you my Reasons why I offer you a Plea of this nature to the Indictment L. H. Steward My Lord if you have any Plea put it in L. Delamere Will your Grace be pleas'd to accept it as I have done it It may be it is not so formal because I have had no Councel allowed me to peruse and sign it But as it is I here offer it to your Grace's consideration L. H. Steward Ay put it in Then it was delivered to the Clerk L. H. Steward Read it Cl. of Cr. The humble Plea of Henry Lord Delamere to the Indictment of High Treason against him now to be tryed by the Lord High Steward and Peers here assembled THE said Lord Delamere saving to himself all benefit of Advantage of any further or other matter of exception to the Generality Incertainty or Insufficiency of the said Indictment and all matters and things which do or may concern the same for Plea hereunto saith That he was by his Majesty's Writ Summoned to this present Parliament which began the Nineteenth Day of May last and attended his Duty there as a Peer of this Realm That for High Treason supposed to be committed by him during the Sitting of the same Parliament he was the Twenty sixth Day of July last committed by Warrant of the Earl of Sunderland one of his Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State to the Tower of London That the Peers in Parliament assembled taking Notice by his Petition of the Ninth of November last of his being absent from his Attendance in Parliament sent a Message to his Majesty to know the reason why he the said Henry Lord Delamere a Peer of that House was absent from his Attendance there Upon the Tenth Day of November last the Lord Treasurer reported his Majesty's Answer to the said Message viz. That the said Lord Delamere was absent from his Attendance in Parliament because he stood committed for High Treason for levying War against the King this last Summer testifyed upon Oath and that his Majesty had given directions that he should be proceeded against with all speed according to Law The House of Peers not being satisfied with this Answer the Debate thereof was adjourn'd till the Monday morning following On which Day the Lords resuming the Debate concerning the Lord Delamere and the King's Message after some Debate the Lord Chancellour by his Majesty's Command gave the House an account what Proceedings had been against the Lord Delamere since his Majesty's Answer to their Address concerning his absence from the House which was to this Effect That the King had given Order for a speedy Prosecution of him That the Treason whereof he was accused was committed in Cheshire and that being a County Palatine the Prosecution ought to be there and not in the King's Bench as it might be if the Treason had been committed in another County and that therefore his Majesty had given Order for a Commission of Oyer and Terminer into Cheshire in order to the finding of an Indictment against him for the said Treason And that accordingly a Commission of Oyer and Terminer was already sealed and if the Indictment be not found before the end of the Term the said Lord Delamere's Prayer being entred in the Kings's Bench he should be Bailed All which Proceedings do more fully appear in the Journals of the said House of Peers to which the said Henry Lord Delamere doth refer himself Afterwards that is to say upon the 〈◊〉 Day of 〈◊〉 the said Parliament was Prorogued by his Majesty unto the Tenth Day of February next as by the said Journals it doth also appear Upon all which Matters the said Henry Lord Delamere doth humbly tender this his Plea to the Jurisdiction of your Lordships in this Cause and doth humbly conceive your Lordships ought not to proceed in the Tryal of him upon the Indictment of High Treason now before you And that for these following Reasons First Inasmuch as it appears by the said Petition of the said Henry Lord Delamere and the several Orders of the Lords and the King's Answers to the Message of the Lords thereupon That the said House are already possessed of his said Cause which is for the same supposed Treason for which he was at first committed and which is the same Treason for which he now stands indicted before your Lordships And for this Reason your Lordships as

not to be found That very Night my Lords this same Brand and Disney they meet this Noble Lord my Lord Delamere at the Coffee-House and give him an Account of the Messages And as soon as ever he had received the Message upon that Twenty-Seventh of May at Ten of the Clock at Night does my Lord Delamere dispatch out of Town with only one Servant to attend him and Two other Friends that he had pick't up or appointed to meet him and go with him With all these Badges of Plot and Design does my Lord Delamere set out that Night It was the same Night that Jones came to Town It was late at Night He changed his Name and went by the Name of Brown He chose to go all the By-roads and would not keep the High-common-road and went with great speed as We cannot but presume according to the Message delivered by Jones on purpose to repair into Cheshire And if your Lordships please to observe You will find several remarkable Instances of Plot and Contrivance in the matter First That a Nobleman and one of 10 considerable a Character in his Country as my Lord Delamere should make such haste out of Town with 10 small an Equipage as but one Servant Then That he should go so late at Night Again That he should change his Name and That should prove to be a Name not casually taken up as the first Name he could think of next his own but a Name of distinction that he was known by among all his own Party For all the Communications between the Confederates and Him were managed as to Him under the Name of Brown By that Name several of the late Duke of Monmouth's Trayterous Declarations were sent for which were to be sent to him or by him into Cheshire And that alone with Submission my Lords would be a shrewd Circumstance of Suspicion that a Noble Lord such an one as my Lord Delamere should assume the Name of a Commoner and post out of Town so ill accompanied in a Disguise at that time of Night especially the Parliament being then Sitting as really it was But besides all this Circumstantial Evidence We shall prove by Positive Testimony what the hasty Business was that made my Lord undertake this Journey in this manner For having notice of the Duke of Monmouth's Intention to Land speedily in England when he comes into Cheshire he actually sets about the Work to put that County in a forwardness to assist in the Rebellion endeavours to stir up the People to joyn with him and acquaints One that he imployed in that Affair with the whole Design that he was engaged to raise so many Thousand Men and so much Money to be ready by such a Day Nor does my Lord rest here But after the Duke of Monmouth was Landed in the West to corrupt the Minds of the People We shall prove what Discourses he had and these will testifie his Inclinations to the Cause concerning the great Victories he had obtained over the King's Forces and how he applauded his Conquests My Lords We shall plainly shew You all this that I have opened in plain Proof And then We shall submit it to your Lordships Judgments Whether this Noble Peer be Not Guilty as he has Pleaded to his Indictment Lord H. Steward Call your Witnesses Mr. Attorney Who do You begin with Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord Howard of Escrick We desire he may be first sworn Which was done Lord H. Steward Well What do You ask my Lord Howard Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I call You to give an Account what You know of a Design of an Insurrection that was to have been and in what Parts and what share Cheshire was to have had in it in the late King's Time Lord H. Steward You hear the Question What say You to it my Lord Lord Howard My Lord I am to direct my self to speak to what was done in the late King's Time For as to that Noble Lord at the Barr I have nothing to say against him Lord H. Steward My Lord Howard If I apprehend Mr. Attorney aright You are not called as a particular Witness against my Lord Delamere but only to give an Account what was agreed upon in any Consultations where You were present in the late KING's Time about a Conspiracy for an Insurrection Lord Howard If so my Lord then I am called not to be an Evidence against my Lord Delamere but against my Self that is to repeat what I have often delivered at several Tryals in the Courts of Justice and which I must always repeat with Shame and Confusion for my Guilt as I cannot but always reflect upon it with Sorrow and Horror But if it be for the Service of His Majesty and this Honourable Court for me so to do I shall endeavour to comply with it and repeat it as well as I can by the Assistance of a broken Memory it being an Account of Things done several Years past and from a Memory interrupted by such Accidents as are very well known and as have disabled me to make a more distinct and particular Relation before so great an Auditory My Lords I suppose it will be expected I should begin my Account with the Occasion and Ground and the Time when those Things happened Lord H. Steward Take your own Method my Lord. Lord Howard Truly my Lord I am not able to fix the particular Time unless You will give me leave to reckon the Years by the Sheriffs of London as the Romans used to do theirs by their Consuls for I have no other means of computing the exact Time Lord H. Steward Pray my Lord tell the Times as near as you can and use what Helps for your Memory you think best Lord Howard My Lords It was in that Year when Mr. Shute and Mr. Pilkington were Sheriffs for the City of London And at that Time it is well known how great Heats did arise upon the Contests that were in the City about Election of Officers for the Year ensuing Mr. Attorney General May it please your Grace My Lord Delamere seems to be faint with standing If your Grace please a Chair may be provided for my Lord to sit in Lord H. Steward Ay by all means Let a Chair be provided for my Lord to sit down Go on my Lord. Lord Howard My Lord I was saying that the Contests about the disputed Election of Sheriffs had occasioned such heats in the City of London and other Places that it was even beyond the common expressions of discontent I knew nothing of any particular Design there was in hand till about six weeks after when Captain Walcot came to me a Person I had known some time before and upon discourse acquainted me that he had found out that there were some persons engaged in a considerable Action that was near its execution and that in order to it he had had notice given him to make preparation and thereupon he had thought fit for that reason

I humbly thank your Grace I desire to know of him who let him into the house Saxon. The man that came with me went with me just to the Door and let me in within the Door and I saw no other man but that man till I came into the Room where my Lord and those two Gentlemen were L. Delamere Was there no body else but we there Saxon. No you were so wise you would let no body be by L. Delamere My Lord I shall trouble this Witness no farther at present L. H. Steward Then Mr. Attorney General will you proceed Mr. Att. General My Lord we shall give no more Evidence at present but shall rest it here till we see what Defence this Noble Lord will make for himself L. H. Steward Then my Lord Delamere your time is now come to make your Defence you have heard what has been Evidenced against you and my Lords now expect to hear what you have to say for your self L. Delamere May it please your Grace a great part of the Day is spent and I would beg the Favour of your Grace that I may have the favour till to morrow morning to review the Notes I have taken and then I shall make my Defence L. H. Steward My Lord Delamere I had this very thing in my thoughts before I came hither this Day because I did foresee that this was likely to be a long Cause and the proceeding in it would take up much time I have a little doubt I must needs say in my own mind whether it may be done by Law I know very well if this were a Trial in full Parliament there have been Precedents to warrant the Adjournment till another Day though it be in the midst of a Trial and in the middle of the Evidence But this Court I take to be of the same nature though of a degree higher with the other ordinary Courts of Judicature and whether it be not obliged and tied up to the same Method of Proceeding with those other Courts where all Capital Offences are tried is a thing I am in some doubt about In those Courts it has not been usual to Adjourn the Court after Evidence given nay it has been sometimes a Question whether the Judges in those Courts after the Jury are gone from the Barr to consider of their Verdict could Adjourn themselves I say the Judges have sometimes made a Doubt of it though I know the Point is now settled and the Practice is that they may and do But this is most certain after the Evidence given the Jury cannot be Adjourned but must proceed in their Enquiry and be kept together till they are agreed of their Verdict this has caused some Hesitancy in me what the Law may be in this Case therefore I think it may be proper to consult with my Lords the Judges for I desire the thing may be considered and settled L. Delamere My Lord I humbly beg this Favour of your Grace but to Adjourn till to morrow L. H. Steward With all my heart my Lord if it may be done by Law L. Delamere I hope it may my Lord and I beg that Favour of your Grace L. H. Steward My Lord I should be very glad to comply with your Lordship's desires but truly I have considered of it and do doubt whether I can by Law do it In full Parliament it is clear it may be done but upon this Commission after my Lords the Peers are once charged and the Evidence partly given whether I can then Adjourn them till another Day is with me a Doubt My Lords if your Lordships please before such time as my Lord the Prisoner at the Barr enters upon his Defence I will with your leave propound the Question to my Lords the Judges and hear their Opinion what the Law is L. Delamere My Lord I shall hardly be able to finish all I have to say in any convenient time this Day L. H. Steward But my Lord if an Adjournment cannot be by Law I cannot help it L. Delamere There has a great deal been said and it will require a great deal of time to give it an Answer L. H. Steward Ay but if it cannot be done as you would have it we must be contented to stay the longer together for I would not abridge you of your Defence therefore my Lords the Judges if you will please to go together and consider of it and report your Opinions what the Law is in this Case and we will stay till you come again Then the Judges withdrew into the Exchequer Chamber E. Nottingham My Lord High Steward I do humbly conceive this is a Matter that concerns the Priviledge of the Peers and because it is a Matter that doth so much concern the whole Peerage I think my Lords here ought in some measure to concern them selves about it Therefore my Lord I have a short Motion to make to your Grace that considering the Consequence that the Precedent of this Case may draw with it since my Lords the Judges are gone together to consult of this Point of which I may say they are not altogether the sole Judges We may also withdraw to consider of this Matter with them because it may not be proper for my Lords in Publick here to offer what they may have to say to incline my Lords the Judges in their Judgments one way or other L. Falconberge My Lord I humbly offer this to your Grace upon the Motion that this Noble Lord has made that with Submission I take this to be a thing that concerns the Priviledge of Peerage only and I conceive the Judges are not concerned to make any Determination of that Matter I think therefore my Lords here ought to retire with them to consider of it L. H. Steward My Lords I think with Submission to your Lordships that this is a Question naturally proper for my Lords the Judges to give their Opinions in whether this Court as a Court of Judicature for the Trial of this Noble Lord may in the midst of the Tryal adjourn till another day And the priviledge of the Peerage cannot at all come in question here as I conceive L. Falconberg My Lord that we conceive is a point of priviledge which certainly the inferior Courts can have no power to determine L. H. Steward If your Lordships have a mind to withdraw you may Lords Ay withdraw withdraw Then the Peers withdrew and after half an hour the Judges returned and took their places as before and after about an hour the Peers returned to their former places L. H. Steward My Lords the Judges have you considered of the Matter that has been proposed to you and what is your Opinion L. C. J. Herbert May it please your Grace the Judges in obedience to your Graces Commands have withdrawn and considered of what your Grace proposed to them and with humble Submission they take the Question to be this Not whether your Grace may Adjourn your Commission from

Stew. Where did you part with my Lord Delamere and when Edlin Upon Thursday the 28 th of May at Hitchin L. H. Stew. What time of the day was it when you parted Edlin It was about 10 of the Clock L. H. Stew. He went forward Post into Cheshire did he not Edlin He did not go Post I suppose for he went upon his own Horse L. H. Stew. Did he go upon his own Horse Edlin It was the same Horse he went to Hitchin upon L. H. Stew. Have you any more Witnesses my Lord L. Delamere No My Lord I hope I have given their Lordships satisfaction in all points and need to give no further Evidence L. H. Stew. Have you any thing more then to say My Lord L. Delamere My Lords I acknowledge I did go at that time privately a By-Road and by the name of Brown and as for Jones who it is said came from Holland that day I appeal to him himself and I call God to Witness I never saw the man before now in my life nay till after I was made a Prisoner upon this account I never so much as heard of his Name and your Lordships see by the Proofs that all that has been said against me except what this Fellow Saxon has testified is but hearsay nay indeed but hearsay upon hearsay at the third and fourth hand My Lords if People will make use of my name and say this and that and the other and among themselves talk of Messages sent to me can I or any man in the world help it at this rate who can be innocent If a man must be guilty because others intend to draw him into Treason For there is no more in the utmost that this proof can amount unto It is at the pleasure of any two men in the world to take away the Lives Honours and Estates of any of your Lordships if it be a proof sufficient to make you guilty of Treason for them to swear you were intended to be drawn into Treason And my Lords as to the truth of the thing it self that there was any Message or Correspondence between the late D. of Monmouth and me I call God to witness I have neither wrote nor sent Letter or Message to him or received Letter or Message from him this 3 years I cannot tell what expectation he might have concerning me or any body else It is very probable he might have expectation of assistance from some body and that without such expectations he would not have made the attempt he did But my Lords all that is nothing to me I had no correspondence either by Letters or Messages with him so that all that has been said upon that point of his expectation and what he declared I must give the same answer to that I gave to the Evidence about Jones's Message That admitting it to be true he did declare so yet no proof being made of an actual correspondence it is no more but only an intention in him to draw men into the Commission of Treason and if that be allow'd for proof of guilt I must repeat it again there 's no man can be innocent Upon the whole matter my Lord I must leave my Case to the consideration of your Lordships I am not Master of so much Law or Rhetorick as the Kings Counsel to plead in my own Cause and I have had but little time to recollect and apply my defence to my accusation but I hope what Evidence I have offered has given your Lordships full satisfaction that I am not guilty of what I stand charged with And after all that has been said my Lords I would beg your Lordships to consider this that if in case I were guilty of these things and were conscious to my self of having been ingaged in an Affair of this nature can any man imagine I could have been so hardy as to have surrendred my self upon the Kings Proclamation nay if I with those other two Gentlemen that he has named had had any transactions of this kind with such a Fellow as he has been made appear to be by his Neighbours that must needs be thought a man of no Faith because of no Reputation tho' he gives himself a great Character as a man of great Interest of wonderful dispatch and dexterity in the management of such matters so as at first sight to put this large confidence in him Can it be imagined I so little regarded my own Life and all that is dear to me as to have surrendred my self were it not that I was certain of my own innocence and integrity Life it self my Lords is to be preferred above all things but Honour and Innocence And Job saith Skin for skin and all that a man hath will he give for his life and why should I be presumed to have so little a value for it as voluntarily to deliver up my self to destruction had I been conscious that there was any one who could really testifie any thing that could hurt me Besides My Lords this very Fellow Saxon is but one Evidence and how far you will believe him I must submit it to you but surely one Witness will never be sufficient to convict a man of Treason tho' thousands of hear-says and such trival circumstances be tacked to it especially when they are tacked to an Evidence which I dare say your Lordships are far from thinking it deserves any Credit My Lords I desire your leave to ask this one Question Would not any of your Lordships think himself in a bad condition as to his Fortune if he could produce no better Evidence to prove his Title to his Estate than what has been produced against me this day to take away my Life and if such Evidence as this would not be sufficient to support a Title to an Estate certainly it can never be thought sufficient to deprive a man of Life Honour Estate and all My Lords I am not the only Man that has been or may be falsely accused God knows how soon the misfortune of a False Accusation may fall to the Lot of any of your Lordships I pray God it never may but since that may happen I question not but your Lordships will be very cautious how by an easy Credulity you give incouragement to such a wickedness For Knights of the Post will not end in my Tryal if they prosper in their Villany and perhaps it may come home to some of your Lordships if such practices be incouraged as I cannot but firmly believe they will not My Lords the Eyes of all the Nation are upon your Proceedings this day Nay I may say your Lordships are now Judging the cause of every man in England that shall happen to come under like Circumstances with my Self at any time hereafter For accordingly as you judge of me now just so will inferior Courts be directed to give their Judgments in like Cases in time to come Your Lordships very well know Blood once spilt can never be