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A41785 The prisoner against the prelate, or, A dialogue between the common goal [ie. gaol] and Cathedral of Lincoln wherein the true faith and Church of Christ are briefly discovered & vindicated ... / written by a prisoner of the baptised churches in Lincolnshire. Grantham, Thomas, 1634-1692. 1662 (1662) Wing G1543; ESTC R14165 45,998 94

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O my Lord why am I busied here Thou knowst from war my heart and hands are clear And yet O Lord I pray thee teach me fight Couragiously that warfare which thy might Only can mannage sith it 's war Divine And Lord I thank thee that thou dost encline My heart and hand thereto and hast assisted My soul therein since what time I was listed Within thy Roll and in this undertaking I pray thee ke●p my hand and mind from shaking That so the Truth with comely boldnesse I May practise preach write teach and testifie For Lord if Truth be Truth and still the same In nature worth and usefulness then blame Must be their Lot who are right bold to speak it In times of Peace and afterwards for sake it Because the times do turn O God forbid That I should for such cause let Truth lye hid In fleshly fears O God how great would le My shame when I thy glorious face shall see In that great Day the Day of final Sentence When none their loss regain can by Repentance The thoughts whereof O Lord doth give me boldness To speak for Truth though in a day of coldness Wherein the Wa●ers are not more congeald Than mens cold Zeal hath all thy Laws repeal'd For what do they less than repeal thy Law Who of poor mortal flesh stand S O in awe As they 'l not act nor speak one word for thee But as great men do give them liberty But Lord I speak of Truth which all confess To be more worth than all that men possess But thou Lord know'st how doubtfull in this day It is become to find that blessed way Of Truth for though there 's nothing more pretended Yet surely there is nothing less befriended What one man saith is true another man Doth say is false yea even such as can Skill all the Sciences and Liberal Arts Are so divided into sects and parts That there 's no end of their most hot Divisions Yea such the multitude of their Confusions As thou Lord know'st cannot be lightly number'd And herewith Europe hath been greatly cumber'd What then shall I poor dust now signifie In Truth 's behalf will any think that I Have found this Pearl or can assign the Field Or Church which doth this precious Treasure yeeld Well whether I have found that Church or no Let him that readeth judge But this I 'll do I 'll shew the Church I 've found even the Truth Which I have fallen in love with from my youth That so if I be right another may By this means get some help into the way Of blessed Truth Or else if I be wrong throng Some one that 's right may break forth through the And she● me that Old Way where Rest and Peace May be obtain'd that my own wayes may cease For is not this that which poor soules desire Where is the good Old Way others enquire Where 's blessed Sion Mother of the Saints Yea for a sight of her some hearts now faints Yea thou my soul remember canst the Dayes The Weeks the Months the Years and dolful wayes Wherein thou Pilgrim-like didst mournful walk And in thy Solitudes wouldst often talk With thy Creator by Pray'rs Vows and Tears That if he would but free thee of thy fears Which these crook'd wayes did minister to thee And of his Sion once but make thee free To set thy feet upon that holy Hill Then wouldst thou wholly yeeld up to his Will To be to do to suffer Gods good pleasure If he thereto would fill thee with his treasur● And now my soul what i' st wherein thy Lord Hath failed of in making good his Word In setting thy bound feet free from the band Of miry paths and in his blessed Land His dearest Church hath given thee a Station A dwelling place in his beloved Nation Yea thou a name and a rememberance Hast there obtain'd with an Inheritance So rich so full so ample every way That what it is no words can fully say Now then my soul see thou perform thy Vows Lest thy Engagements prove but empty Shows What Truth thou knowst the same communicate That others may thereof participate Remember how the Labours of the Saints In former times did much supply thy wants And so do still yea some the Seed-time knew And thou camst but to reap their Harvest true Yet thou a Seed-time with respect to those That are to follow must perhaps disclose Or at the least my Muse bring forth thy gains Which thou achieved hast by others pains That so the Sower and the Reaper may Rejoyce in mutual profiting that day Which shall in Praises to our Lord be spended And yet nor Day nor Praises shall be ended But now my Pen stay here and let us muse Upon the subject which thou must peruse Use seriousness for they are Divine things For the most part whereof thy Muse thus sings Gods precious Statutes are the chiefest Objects Implore his ayd in handling so great Projects To clear his Laws wherein men do abuse them And to declare how rightly they should use them Again there 's many things which thou here blam'st Speak of them seriously when thou them nam'st For some do deem as highly of those doings As of th' Apostles Precepts Walks or Goings Yea some are ma●ked so they think those wayes Had their beginning in th' Apostles dayes As Pedorantisme and other things Which their procedure had from humane springs And whereas thy most weighty subject is About the Church that heavenly place of Bliss Deal clearly in this point for that indeed In this one Question lies both Fruit and Seed Defend her in thy place she 'l thee defend Yea God will him protect that is her Friend Dispute for Truth then will the Truth approve thee See to thy charge my Muse it doth behove thee Bear in thy mind the dayes wherein thy thought Was no way's like to that which I am taught More by Tradition humane than by those Instructions which the Scriptures do disclose This if thou do'st remember it may serve To lay thee low and in thy self preserve A due respect to those that do not see The errour of their way But if there be Any that do malitiously oppose The Truth see thou give them the sharper blows Fear not my Muse if Truth be on thy side As he which fanned Babel well hath cry'd That Truth is strongest by it thou wilt be Made Victor unto all Eternity My Muse sith thou a Prisoner art this day Because thou canst not walk in th' Minsters way Now therefore go thee forth in form of Jayle To Dispute with the Minster do not fail If she sound Reason with the Truth produce I do conjure thee make with her a Truce But if of these thou destitute dost find her Then freely of her fallacies remind her And if she mind thee not appeal to him Whom she pretends to serve and so come in To Goal again till Liberty from Heaven Thee
deem Than other places this though strange it seem I can prove true for in the Gospel day Distinctions of this kind are done away Cathederal It seems then I no holier am then thou In thy conceit but Scripture doth us show There 's holy ground as well as ground prophane Place where God will be worship'd and again Place where he will no Sacrifice accept But th'Off'rer and th' Oblation both reject Jayle The Scripture shews that such esteem there WAS Of Place but shews that such esteem should pass Away from Christians wherefore I say Thy Ground or Place no holier is this day Than other places wherefore every where Men may with holy hearts in prayer appear Cathederal My Place must needs be holy for this cause It builded was therein to teach Gods Laws It consecrated was also by those Whom God to minister his Word there chose So was not every place then thou dost ill Thus to compare thy Place with this my Hill Jayle Were all this proved which thou never can Yet mine 's as holy seeing such a man As Christ hath sanctifi'd each place so far As therein he 'll accept of holy Prayer And Paul i' th Jayle at Midnight sang an Hymn Such as few singers ever sang in thine Cathederal Well I perceive I must with thee engage In a Religious contest ere this Age Doth terminate Then let us now propose The Point to be Disputed and then close In Argument The Question then shall he About the Church Whether 't be Me or Th●e Jayle No Question like to this the Church once found Will for our finding all Truth prove a Ground So clear that we no Truth shall need to know But she will strait be ready it to show Then fit thy self thy Church for to maintain For that 's the thing I question to be plain Cathederal Dost question that then that will I defend Against thy Opposition Now descend To some particularities that we The reason of thy doubt may fully see And fairely Answer Then let 's see the ground Thou hast to prove thy Church and Doctrine sound Jayle Well then the first place where I shall detect thee For no true Church now let who can protect thee Is thy Minority or want of Age To be esteemed for that Matron sage Espous'd to Christ 'bove sixteen hundred years Ago whilst thou as yesterday appears Cathederal Blis me Did ever any creature know A Jayl that had a more unshamefac'd brow Than thou in this What do not I well know ye To be of Leidens breed of Munster trow ye For shame leave talking of Antiquity Thou art in no respect so old as I. Jayle Alas I see thou knowst me not i' th least Whilst thou deriv'st my line from that mad beast Of Munster ' gainst whose pranks I did protest Even in those dayes as Cassander hath prest Me forth in Print and sith he doth acquit me Thy Callumny in this case cannot hit me Cathederal What wilt deny thy Father do not each My Pulpits sound thee forth when there I preach For such an Upstart Yea my Doctors all There shew thy Radix this their Volumns shall Attest yea th'Papists whom thou sayst acquit thee Say Munster as thy Patriarch befits thee Jayle Thy Doctors and the Papists sometimes say I am no older than that Germans fray Yet otherwhile they both confess I came Down from th'Apostls times now then for shame Insist not on their witness which appears In its Concordance like two Dogs by th' ears Cathederal Sure thou dost wrong both Papists and my Men Beware how thou dost thus imploy thy Pen For if thou shew not from sufficient ground Where they themselvs in this case thus confound I will requite thee as a false accuser And of these reverend Clerks a great abuser Jayle First Willet in 's Synopsis Papismi Opposing Papists 'bout Antiquity Observes that Bernard names some Sectaries Who Pedobaptisme did much despise They 'r call'd Apostolicks because 't is thought From th'Postles times these Sectaries came out Cathederal I find that Willet speaks to this effect But those bore not the name of thy proud Sect Men may deny to baptize Infants so They may deny Believers Baptism too So then this Instance thee no way assists Vnless these men were prov'd Anabaptists Jayle The Papists in their Book of Motives say Th'Apostolicks were such as at this day Are called Anabaptists yea that name They do expresly give them and the same Thy old Friend Marbeck gives to some in Rome In Anno Dom. One hundred fifty one Cathedral I read these Books and must confess I find These things are so What then Thou art behind Some which do boast of their Antiq●ity From such like proves to wit the Papacy But yet all this cannot evince the truth Of their Church-state nor yet of thine forfooth Jayle If I no better Plea in this respect Can shew than th'Papists thou shalt me reject As one that 's noval but at present I Am not engag'd for my Antiquity 'T is thou O Minster which must now engage To prove thy self Christs Church in point of age Cathederal Come on I reason thus from Featly's mouth That Church is of full age whose Doctrine's Truth Perpetual unchanged and I say Such is my Doctrine wherefore now I may Conclude with him that thus my Church is true Thy Answer now bring forth to open view Jayle I do deny thy Minor and I say Thy Doctrine which gives enterance to thy way Of Church-ship is not true nor yet so old As in the Scriptures to be found enrol'd For thou without Christs Soul-converting Word Thy Church with carnal members hast bestor'd Cathederal 'T is true my Members now are wholly such When I receive them as no word can touch In order to Conversion yet I say The holy Scripture will evince my way Was not our Father Abra'm and his Seed Brought into one Church-state search now and read Jayle I search and find That unto every Nation To every Creature good news of Salvation For Faith and for Repentance must be taught Before into Christs Church they can be brought Contrary-wise 't is clear that Abr'ams Seed Had no such Obligation that we read Cathederal The Parents do believe and so the Child For Abra'ms Seed in Holy Writ are stil'd Gods Covenant which Abram is the same That 's made with us now therefore here again See how thou err'st making Parental-Faith So needful to let in to th'Churches Path. Jayle The Scripture shews most plain that Abrams Seed In Gospel-times are such as own his Creed Also the Scriptures quite dissolve that Plea Of Parent-interest in a Gospel-day The Jews are Abrams Seed and yet 't is plain That makes them not in 's Covenant remain Cathederal I tell thee Christian-Infants are as free To Gospel-Priviledges as we see The Children of the Jewes were in their time To Legal Rites thus doth my Doctrine shine And is most Antient being not deny'd Till such
my Common-Prayer-Book I allow That way in case of weakness But I show In the same place that dipping is God's way For Baptisme to be perform'd this day Jayle I do confess thou sayst so but behold When thou presumed for to be so bold To give an inch thy Doctors took an ell And now this weakness doth all strength expel Out of thy Church And God's way is rejected And as a foolish thing by thee neglected Cathedral No Alteration in these things I see Will be assented to by such as thee As if we must in these cold Climates go Into the Water when baptis'd But lo. The time requires the Conference should end Now therefore unto what remains descend CHAP. V. The Arg. The Minster's Consistory Court The Jayle to visit goes The Minster takes it in ill sort She should that place disclose Jayle MOngst other things whereby Christs Church doth shine We are to reckon Christian Discipline This Ornament thou wants Whence I conclude Christs Church consists not of thy multitude Nor yet of this thy gorgious Courtly Tent Because you all reject Christ's Government Cathederal What! dost ' come here to hold thy Visitation That thou beginst to make this exclamation Against my Court whose wayes thou cast not know Nor will I unto thee my secrets show Yet will I this my Government maintain ' Gainst which thou mayest strive but all in vain Jayl Well but before we try thy Discipline Let 's take a view of those brave men of thine Which are thy Officers let 's know their names Or Titles for behold their glorious Trains Seem to import they are no Fishers mates Nor yet like Paul Tent-makers sociates Cathederal These are their Titles and the first degree Arch-Bishops are the next Lord-Bishops be Attended with their Bishops Suffragans Arch-Deacons Deans and Chapters Courtezans With Iudges Surrogates and Proctors store Apparitors with very many more Jayle Arch-Bishops and Lord-Bishops what is this Did not our Saviour all such titles hiss Out of his Church when his Disciples would Have bin the chief that so they might have rul'd By Domination over those to whom Christ did intend they servants should become Cathederal Unless these Titles ' gainst plain Scripture be Thou canst not them condemn nor do I see Those Texts alledg'd which any whit oppose These Titles but 't is meant of such as those Which Papists give unto their Popes But I Have eft condemned that Supremacy Jayle Thy Titles are as much beyond the Line Of holy Writ and full as clandestine As those amongst the Papists for whilst they Make one great Pope now heed well what I say Thou makest many Popes for thy Arch-Lords Their Fancies force upon us for God's words Cathedral I thee require some Scriptures to produce Which shews my Titles to be such abuse As they prohibit otherwise thy plea In this our contest cannot mine outweigh For all things which ' mongst Papists are esteem'd Must not unlawful for that cause be deem'd Jayle Peter an Elder Elders doth command The Churches oversight to take in hand Without becoming Lords and Paul avows He preached Christ as Lord and likewise shows He preach'd himself a servant for Christ's sake To th'Church now this against thy Lords doth make Cathedral 'T is true the letter of these Scriptures do Seem to oppose Lord-Bishops but you know The Scripture hath a secret sence and can Not easily be understood now then How canst thou tell the Lordship here is meant Of those Lord-Bishops which my Church frequent Jayl The Texts must needs be meant of some that lord it In things Temporal or as thou dost word it Of Lords Spiritual But Peter doth Allow the first yea and to speak the t●oth Commands the Church all such as such t' obey Ergo 't is Spirit ' Lords he thrusts away Cathedral Thy major Proposition must be true Sith needs it must be meant of one of th'two Thy minor's likewise true Peter doth call The Church t' obey Lords Magistratical That then I must deny is thy Conclusion And truly why It makes for my confusion Jayl If th' Propositions both be verified Th' Conclusion can in no wise be denied Logicians say and therefore thou art one That from both Truth and Reason's so far gone As neither will thy Lordship cause to bend Till Christ the Lord his Judgments on thee send Cathedral Leave off proud Jayl thou art not yet my Judg But thou shouldst rather know thy self my Drudg Nor will I thus permit thee at this season To charge me with the want of Truth or Reason Turn then thy course unto my Discipline And do not thus my Lordship undermine Jayl Thy Discipline we must find in thy Court To which I see poor men compell'd refort To pay their Money And I also see Thy Officers as greedy of their Fee As any Lawyers And I likewise hear These Fees do make them reel with Wine Beer Cathedral Touching my Court thou shalt instructed be Ere long what they do there I 'le warrant thee And as for those who come unwillingly They 'r such as from my Laws have trod awry And I shall let such know their punishment Must peirce their purse till they be penitent Jayl Purse-penalties the Church of Christ knows none As she is such nor can it once be shown In all the Apostolical Directions In holy Writ there should be such exactions And doubtles whilst thou thus minds earthly things Paul under a most sharp reproof thee brings Cathedral Purse-penalties alone may not excuse Those that my Laws presumptuously abuse for Heresie deserves the most severe Chastisement others for to put in fear Even Confiscation 〈…〉 This crime 〈◊〉 the holy Scripture saith Jayle This i● a Monstr●●● Disciplin● fo● you Who Gospel Laws pretend for what you doo ' Ti● true by 〈◊〉 Death might be inflicted On some 〈…〉 But if the Church in 〈◊〉 Should so proceed 't would now prove Persecution Cathederal Here thou 〈…〉 But I am clear from such 〈◊〉 For I no 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 I punish such 〈…〉 That I might them reduce from Heresie Or others keep in Christian purity Jayle That thou ' it a 〈…〉 Witness in part some 〈◊〉 whom thou ha●t slain And partly some thou do●t at this day keep In Prison only cause they cannot sleep With thee in 〈◊〉 but the L●●d's Precept● Have chosen as a Rule unto their steps Cathederal Those I 〈◊〉 and these I have slain Are such as would in Here●ie remain Yet 't is not really I but ' t●● the Power● Which punish 〈…〉 these Ma●●● of yours 'T is true 't is I advi●e them thus to do it And so shall still and care not who do know it Jayle So 't is my will is all the rule indeed By which thou do●● thus ●idgedly proceed For from good ground it never can be shewed That thou or other ought to have imb●ewed Your hands in their blood who did well behave them In all things civil but to God