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A20388 The ansvveres of some brethren of the ministerie to the replyes of the ministers and professours of divinitie in Aberdeene, concerning the late convenant. Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.; Dickson, David, 1583?-1663. 1638 (1638) STC 68.5; ESTC S100400 28,428 46

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at this time from an humour to contradict any man or to wrong the meanest far lesse any of the honorable Lords of his Majestices Counsell least of all his Maiesties high Commissioner But doe confesse that there was much insisting great working on both sides many meetings before the forme of Declaration could bee agreed upon and received And wee doe believe also that the rescinding of the Covenant so vehemently urged was that which would have given him as his Majesties Commissioner greatest satisfaction Neither are wee ignorant that Partly through the malignancie of Sycophants watching all opportunities to promove their owne projects Partly through the rubs and difficulties which occurre in working of great maters to their wished ends and Partly through the busie and overweaning conceit of some who would seeme to bee somewhat that they may warme themselves at a combustion and who are readie to raise suspitions against the wisest and best affected to Authoritie much must beewritten and spoken per ragioni di stato which otherwise would not bee thought so necessarie Yet cannot wee conceive but the acceptance of the Declaration of the loyaltie of his Majesties subjects set down in writ and seconded by oath was good service to the King and that labouring with his Majestie to possesse his royall heart with the best conceptions and constructions of the actions of his well meaning and honest hearted Subjects deser●…eth from them the increase of that respect and honour which they owe to all whom God honoureth to bee instruments of good and happinesse to this Kirke and Kingdome which the LORD establish under his Majesties long and prosperous reigne TO THE READER GOod Reader what could not be performed by us in Printing or Answeres severally after their owne Replyes let it bee supplyed by thy selfe in reading And if there bee any part of our Answers which seemeth not to be relative to the Replyes let it bee imputed to the D. D. whose printed Copie agrieth not with that which in wr●…t was sent unto us under their hands unto which our Answeres were made Neither is it our fault that our answeres have not come to light before this tyme we having sent the same without the changing of one word to bee printed at Aberdene before our comming from that part of the Countrie This must bee ascribed to the ordinary difficulties and hinderances which use to oppose the Trueth and a good cause in the World and which it is not meete now to specifie TO OVR REVEREND BRETHREN The Doctors and Ministers of Aberdeene THat our Answeres Reverend and beloved Brethren have not given you full satisfaction as it may bee imputed to our weaknesse in the defence of so good a Cause so may it proceede also from your owne prejudice against what could be said by us which wee have some reason to suspect for two causes one is that your Demands which wee conceived to have beene intended meerly for us and were sent unto us from you in write were published before our comming in print lyke as you have now printed and published your Replyes before you had seene our Answeres unto that which wee received from you last in write wee having promised to the bearer to returne an Answere shortly ere wee departed the Countrey This may seeme rather to bee a seeking of victorie from praejudice than a search of veritie for satisfaction The other cause of our suspition is that the groundes of our Answeres to you have proven satisfactorie to others who for Age and gifts of Learning and Understanding are pryme men in this Kirk and Kingdome and to whom modestie will not suffer you to preferre your selves But whether our weaknesse or your prejudice bee the cause must bee now judged by others to whose viewe yee have brought us Whom therefore wee with you heartily desire unpartiallie to considder our first and second Answeres wishing and hoping that partialitie prejudice and all worldly respects and feares layde aside the naked Trueth shall bee seene of all her lovers Concerning your confidence of us as wee in loue judge that yee thinke not your selves to bee striving against the Trueth so maye yee conceive that wee can no more be●… brought to your minde than wee can bee drawne from the profession of our Religion as it hath been reformed sworne and confirmed by the late and preceeding Covenants and from following the example of our religious Reformers and the many Worthies succeeding them in this Kirke who would have beene glad to have seene the dayes which wee now doe see and for which wee pray that both yee and wee may bee thankfull so shall it not be imputed unto us that wee have not discerned and used the daye of the Lords visitation so shall wee all rejoyce together in the Daye of the LORD To the first Reply YOVR experience in your Disputes agaynst the common Adversarie wherein you say ye are so frequent hath no doubt taught you howe easie a matter it is to multiply Objections against the Tr●…th and Cause of GOD and your selves knowe that your Objection against our Calling and the Warrant of our comming to you was framed and published in print before it was propounded unto us and ere our Answere could bee had but so soone as we did heare your Demands we answered incontinent in the humilitie and trueth of our minds that wee were to obtrude nothing upon you or your flock by any particular Authoritie Civill or Ecclesiastick but that we did come in all meeknesse to represent unto you the present case of this Kirke and in love to intreat you to joyn with us for the peace thereof for which wee trust without wronging any lawfull Authoritie wee may claime the Warrant of the highest and greatest Authority although wee had not beene sent from almost the whole Kirke and Kingdome lawfully conveened at this time for preservation of Religion and of the Liberties and Lawes of this Kingdome so sore shaken by the usurpation of the Prelates and their Favourers Let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works c. sayeth the Apostle Heb. 10. 24. And where yee object that without your leave we preached within your Congregation which is aggravated by you as a hainous fault both against Scripture and against the Canons of antient Councells which yee have laboriously quoted against us we intreat you to bee more sparing lest the guiltinesse if there be any reflex upon your selves For your Pulpits and Kirks beeing denyed us not from any injurie done by us but by your owne determination before our comming a necessitie was laid upon us to deliver our message in such places as your courtesie did permit wherein no man will find that we have failed if he consider first That there is as wyde difference betwixt Ecclesia turbata pacata the troubled and peaceable estate of a Kirke as is betwixt Ecclesia constituenda constituta many things are necessarie in the
one which perhaps are not expedient in the other Ye speak of the Constitution of the Kirk this yeere as if ye had beene speaking thereof many yeeres before this time 2. That the word of God and the Canons of Councels will have Pastors so to care for their owne flockes that they forbidde them not to care for the whole Kirke especiallie in the time af a common Combustion When the house is on fire everie man ought to runne to all rowmes where hee may quench it when a laik striketh up in a Ship every Mariner yea everie Passinger ought to labour to stop it Even hee who is not universall Pastor of the Kirke is Pastor of the universall Kirk and the Apostle hath taught us That wee are members one of another Rom. 12. 4. As all the members of one bodie beeing many are one bodie so also is Christ. 1. Cor. 12. 12. That the members should have the same care one of another verse 25. If some members of this Kirk had not cared more kindlie in this time of common danger than other some have done the whole bodie had beene ere now dangerously if not desperately diseased 3. That we made choyse of such ho●…res for delivering our Message that the people might attend your ordinarie times of publick worship which maketh your charge of the peoples contempt or ours of your Ministerie to be most unjust In the second part of your Reply to our Answere to your first Demand yee might have made choyse of words witnessing more respect to the most part of the Kingdome now and to the Kirke in former times than of a Confederation and Negative Confession we know no other Confederation at this time but this same laudable Covenant which our Progenitors and many yet living made with God and amongst themselves at the commandement of Authoritie and according to the example of the people of God in former times Neither is that short Confession meerly Negative since the beginning thereof is Affirmative doeth virtuallie containe the first large Confession ratifyed in Parliament 1567. 2. No Pastors in our knowledge have either beene forced to flee to forraigne Countreyes or have beene threatned with the want of their stipends for the refusing their Subscription but this wee have heard that some of them have of their owne accord gone to Court for procuring of Protections against their Creditours and against the Lawes and Duetie of good Subjects have made Lies between the King and his people Others wee knowe have wilfully refused to abyde with their flock and beeing eranestly entreated by them to attend their Charge have left them and haue gone out of the Countrie for no reason but because the people had subscribed and as ye know that Arguments have beene taken from augmentation of stipends to hinder Subscription so ye may know That feare of worldy losse rather hindereth men to subscribe than scruple of conscience The Prelates flight seemeth rather to have proceeded from inward furies of accusing consciences or for feare of a storme which beeing procured by their owne doing may be easily prognosticated by them than from the inforcing of Subscription of the Covenant which in our knowledge was never required of any of the Prelates although they bee grosslie guiltie of the breach of the Covenant which they did sweare and subscribe before 3. Your helpe by your prayers and other meanes for extinguishing of the present Combustion wee still desire but withall intreat that you would both ioyn with the rest of the kirks of the Kingdome in publick humiliation and fasting which the Lord himselfe doeth proclaime and call for at this time so should your prayers bee the more effectuall and also yee bee good instruments according to your power with your owne people and the countrey about to joyne in the Covenant so should yee find the worke of Pacification the more easie 4. The Reasons which wee touched in our Answere for proving that ye might without iust offence to anye joyne with us in subscribing are not yet answered for first a sound Interpretation of the Covenant although proceeding from a private person and altogether voyde of externall Authoritie can not make a substantiall difference and if the Interpretation bee unsound although it were confirmed with Authoritie it maketh not a substantiall co-incidence 2. Why is it denyed that the former Covenant containeth Mutuall defence since all are obliedged thereby to defend Religion according to their vocation and power and the King's person and authoritie which can not possiblie bee done without Mutuall Defence and since that clause of the Covenant is so expo●…ded and applyed upon grounds of perpetuall reason in the generall Band drawne up and printed by Authoritie anno 1590. 3. Yee must either prove this Covenant to bee sub stantially different from the former which is impossible or ye must acknowledge this to have the same Authority with the former since wee are reallie obliedged in the former Covenant and virtuallie the same warrant of King Counsell and Assembly remaineth and was never yet discharged by vertue whereof the Covenant might have beene renewed yearely by all the Subjects of the Kingdome no lesse than it hath beene subscribed yearely by such as passe Degries in Colledges and such as were suspect of Papistrie from time to time 4. What was done by his Majesties Commissionar was not done in a corner that it needeth to bee pryed into or doubted of and what was allowed by his grace who had so great power from his Majestie to declare his Majesties will and to receive Declarations from his Subjects and who was in every point so zealous and tender of his Majesties service and honour who are yee that it should be disallowed by you Ye will have the kingdome guiltie of Combination against Authoritie and will not have the King to bee satisfied when they have declared themselves to the contrarie their Declaration is accepted by his Majesties Commissionar This manner of dealing is more sutable to Papists and such In●…ndiaries than for you who desire to prove good Patriots in using all means of Pacification 5. We are sorrie that ye shuld be the first who have accounted our Covenant to bee a Confedearcie against the Trueth since some of your selves and all everie where haue beene constrained to acknowledge that they ayme at the same end with us to maintaine the Trueth And for that which displeaseth you in our way that wee deale after such a manner with people to come in wee answere that wee have seene in this Land The day of the Lords power wherein His people have most willingly offered themselves in multitudes lyke the dew of the morning that others of no small Note have offered their Subscriptions and have beene refused till time should trye that they joyne in sinceritie from love to the Cause and not from the feare of men and that no Threatnings have beene used except of the deserved judgment of God nor force except the