not be concealed and therefore proposed it to their consideration what should be done in it it was at length concluded that Themistocles should propose it to Aristides and if he did next morning acquaint the People that he gave his approbation to it it should be proceeded in Themistocles informs him that the whole Fleet of their Confederates in the War against the Medes had betaken themselves to the great Arsenal upon their Coast where they might be easily fired and then the Athenians would remain absolute Masters of the Sea and so give Law to all Greece when Aristides came the next day to deliver his Judgment to the People he told them that the business proposed by Themistocles was indeed very advantageous and profitable to the Athenians But withal the most Wicked and Villanous Attempt that ever was undertaken upon which it was wholly laid aside And the same Judgment do I give Doctor of your Democracy at this time But to return to the place where I was I do belive that this difference may easily be terminated very fairly and that our House need not be pulled down and a new one built but may be very easily repair'd so that it may last many hundred years Noble Ven. I begin to perceive that you aim at this That the King must give the People more Power as Henry the Third and King Iohn did or the Parliament must give the King more as you said they did in France in the time of Lewis the Eleventh or else that it will come in time to a War again Eng. Gent. You may please to know that in all times hitherto the Parliament never demanded any thing of the King wherein the Interest and Government of the Kingdom was concerned excepting Acts of Pardon but they founded their demands upon their Right not only because it might seem unreasonable for them to be earnest with him to give them that which was his own but also because they cannot chuse but know that all Powers which are Fundamentally and Lawfully in the Crown were placed there upon the first Institution of our Government to capacitate the Prince to Govern and Protect his People So that for the Parliament to seek to take from him such Authority were to be felo de se as we call a self-Homicide but as in some Distempers of the Body the Head suffers as well as the Inferiour parts so that it is not possible for it to order direct and provide for the whole Body as its Office requires since the Wisdom and Power which is placed there is given by God to that end In which Case though the Distemper of the Body may begin from the Disease of some other part or from the mass of Blood or putrefaction of other Humours yet since that noble part is so affected by it that Reason and Discourse fails therefore to restore this again Remedies must be apply'd to and possibly Humours or Vapours drawn from the Head it self that so it may be able to Govern and Reign over the Body as it did before or else the whole Man like a Slave must be ruled and guided ab extrinseco that is by some Keeper So it is now with us in our Politick Disease where granting if you please that the Distemper does not proceed from the Head but the Corruption of other parts yet in the Cure Applications must be made to the Head as well as to the Members if we mean poor England shall recover its former perfect health and therefore it will be found perhaps Essential to our being to ask something in the condition we now are to which the King as yet may have a Right and which except he please to part with the Phenomena of Government cannot be salved That is our Laws cannot be executed nor Magna Charta it self made practicable and so both Prince and People that is the Polity of England must die of this Disease or by this Delirium must be Governed ab extrinseco and fall to the Lot of some Foregin Power Noble Ven. But Sir since the business is come to this Dilemma why may not the King ask more Power of the Parliament as well as they of him Eng. Gent. No question but our present Councellours and Courtiers would be nibbling at that bait again if they had another Parliament that would take Pensions for their Votes But in one that is come fresh from the People and understand their Sense and Grievances very well I hardly believe they will attempt it for both Council and Parliament must needs know by this time-a-time-a-day that the Cause of all our Distractions coming as has been said an hundred times from the King 's having a greater Power already than the condition of Property at this present can admit without Confusion and Disorder It is not like to mend Matters for them to give him more except they will deliver up to him at the same instant their Possessions and Right to their Lands and become Naturally and Politically his Slaves Noble Ven. Since there must be a voluntary parting with Power I fear your Cure will prove long and ineffectul and we Reconcilers shall I fear prove like our devout Cappuchin at Venice this poor Mans name was Fra. Barnardino da Udine and was esteemed a very holy Man as well as an excellent Preacher insomuch that he was appointed to Preach the Lent Sermons in one of our principal Churches which he performed at the begining with so much Eloquence and Applause that the Church was daily crouded three hours before the Sermon was to begin the esteem and veneration this poor Fryar was in elevated his Spirit a little too high to be contained within the bounds of reason but before his Delirium was perceived he told his Auditory one day that the true Devotion of that People and the care they had to come to hear his word Preached had been so acceptable to God and to the Virgine that they had vouchsafed to Inspire him with the knowledg of an Expedient which he did not doubt but would make Men happy just even in this Life that the Flesh should no longer Iust against the Spirit but that he would not acquaint them with it at that present because something was to be done on their parts to make them capable of this great Blessing which was to pray zealously for a happy Success upon his Endeavours and to Fast and to visit the Churches to that end therefore he desired them to come the Wednesday following to be made acquainted with this blessed Expedient You may Imagine how desirous our People were to hear something more of this Fifth-Monarchy I will shorten my Story and tell you nothing of what crouding there was all night and what quarrelling for places in the Church nor with what difficulty the Saffi who were sent by the Magistrate to keep the Paece and to make way for the Preacher to get into the Pulpit did both But up he got and after a long preamable
Discourse nor of the Author's Design This convinced me and made me suffer the Title to pass So that I have nothing more to say to thee Courteous Reader but to desire thee to pardon the Faults in Printing and also the plainness and easiness of the Style and some Tautologies which latter I could easily have mended but that I thought the Author did not let them pass out of neglect but design and intended that both they and the familiarity of the words and expressions suited better with his purpose of disposing this matter to be treated in ordinary Conversation amongst private Friends than full Periods and starch'd Language would have done which might have been Impropriety The next Request I have to thee is that if thou dost believe this Discourse to be a very foolish one as it may be for ought I know for I am no fit Iudge of such matters that thou wilt yet vouchsafe to suspend thy Censure of it for a while till the whole Impression is vended that so although neither the Publick nor thy self may ever reap any Benefit or Profit by it I may be yet so fortunate by thy favour as to do it Which will make me study thy Content hereafter in something better and in the mean time remain Thy Friend and Servant ERRATA PAg. II. lin 4. for we r one p. 16. l. 26. ' for Sphynx r. Oedipus p. 45. l. ult r. Iussu p. 64. l. 24. r. endeavested p. 105. l. 7. r. â—eirotonia p. 124. l. 9. for of r. or l. 26. r. the mending p. 134. l. 24. for or r. and. p. 209. l. 9. for of r. or p. 221. l. 7. for â—is will r. his writ p. 222. l. 27. r. most Monarchies p. 243 l. 24. for is r. by an Political Discourses and Histories worth reading 1. THe Works of the famous Nicholas Machiavel Citizen and Secretary of Florence containing 1. The History of Florence 2. The Prince 3. The Original of the Guelf and Ghibilin Factions 4. The Life of Castruccio Castracani 5. The Murther of Vitelli c. by Duke Valentino 6. The State of France 7. The State of Germany 8. The Discourses on Titus Livius 9. The Art of War 10. The Marriage of Belphegor a Novel 11. Nicholas Machiavel's Letter in Vindication of himself and his writings All written in Italian and from thence newly and faithfully Translated into English In Folio Price bound 16 s. 2. I Ragguagli dj Parnasso or Advertisements from Parnassus in two Centuries with the Politick Touchstone written Originally in Italian By that Noble Roman Trajano Boccalini Englished by the Earl of Monmouth In Folio Price bound 8 s. 3. The History of the Affairs of Europe in this present age but more particularly of the Republick of Venice written in Italian by Battista Nani Cavalier and Procurator of St. Mark Englished by Sir Robert Honiwood Knight in Folio price bound 12 s. 4. The History of the Government of Venice wherein the Policies Councils Magistrates and Laws of that State are fully related and the use of the Balloting Box exactly described Written in the Year 1675 in Octav. Price bound 3 s. 5. The History of the Turkish Empire from the year 1623 to the year 1677 containing the Reigns of the three last Emperours viz. Sultan Morat Sultan Ibrahim and Sultan Mahomet 4th his Son the 13th Emperour now Reigning By Paul Rycaut Esq late Consul of Smyrna In Folio Price bound 14 s. 6. The present State of the Ottoman Empire in 3 Books containing the Maximes of the Turkish Polity their Religion and Military Discipline Illustrated with divers Figures Written by Paul Rycaut Esq late Secretary to the English Ambassadour there and since Consul of Smyrna The Fourth Edition in Octavo Price bound 5 s. him for near two Moneths had certain necessary occasions which called him for some time into the Country Where he had not been above three Weeks before he heard by meer accident that the Gentleman of Venice was fallen dangerous sick of a malignant Feaver Which made him post away immediately to London to assist and serve him in what he might But he found him almost perfectly restored to his health by an eminent Physician of our Nation as renowned for his Skill and Cures at home as for his Writings both here and abroad And who besides his profound knowledge in all Learning as well in other Professions as his own had particularly arriv'd to so exact and perfect a discovery of the formerly hidden parts of human Bodies that every one who can but understand Latine may by his means know more of Anatomy than either Hypocrates or any of the Ancients or Moderns did or do perceive And if he had lived in the days of Solomon that great Philosopher would never have said Cor hominis inscrutabile This excellent Doctor being in the sick mans Chamber when the other English Gentleman newly alighted came to visit him After some Compliments and Conversation of course they begun to talk of Political Matters as you will better understand by the Introduction and by the Discourse it self The FIRST DAY The Introduction English Gentleman THE sudden news I had of your sad distemper and the danger you were in has been the cause of a great deal of affliction to me as well as of my present and speedy repair to London some Weeks sooner than I intended I must confess I received some comfort to hear at my arrival of your amendment and do take much more now to find you up and as I hope recover'd which I knew would be a necessary consequence of your sending for this excellent Physician the Esculapius of our Age it being the first request I had to make to you if by seeing him here in your Chamber I had not found it needless For the Destiny of us English-men depends upon him and we either live or dye Infallibly according to the Judgment or good Fortune we have when we are sick either to call or not call him to our assistance Noble Venetian I am Infinitely obliged to you for your care of me but am sorry it has been so inconvenient to you as to make you leave your Affairs in the Countrey sooner than you proposed to your self to do I wish I might be so fortunate in the course of my Life as to find an opportunity of making some part of an acknowledgment for this and all the rest of your favours but shall pray God it may not be in the same kind but that your health may ever be so entire that you never need so transcendent a Charity as I now receive from your Goodness And as to this incomparable Doctor although I must confess that all the good which has happen'd to me in this Country as well as the knowledge I have received of Persons and Things does derive from you yet I must make an exception as to this one point for if I can either read or hear this Gentleman 's excellent Writings and the Fame he worthily
admired if not adored by the people and considering too that all the power they leave him will serve but to enable him to defend us the better from Popery and Arbitrary power for which latter Monarchy was first Instituted Thus we may exercise during a Parliament or two love-tricks between the Prince and his people and imitate the hony-moon that continued for about two years after his Majesties Restauration till the ill management of affairs and the new grevances that shall arise which will be sure never to fail till our true cure be effected notwithstanding the care of the new King and his Councellors shall awaken the discontents of the people and then they will curse the time in which they made this election of a Prince and the great men for not hindring them Then men will be reckoning up the discontents of the Peers sometime after they had made a rash choice of H. the 7th in the field who had then no title when they saw how he made use of the power they gave him to lessen their greatness and to fortifie himself upon their ruins when it comes to this and that the Governing party comes to be but a little faction the people who never know the true cause of their distemper will be looking out abroad who has the Lawful title if the next Heir be not in the meantime with an Army of English and Strangers in the field here as is most likely and look upon the Prince of Orange or the next of kin as their future Saviour in case the Duke be dead in the mean time and so the cause of all their distrust taken away thus most men not only discontented persons but the people in general lookt upon his Majesty that now is as their future deliverer during our late distractions when his condition was so weak that he had scarce wherewithall to subsist and his enemies powerful at home and victorious abroad which will not be I fear our case I Prophesy then because you will have me use this word that if Nobles or people make any such unfortunate choice as this during the distractions we may be in upon his Majesties death we shall not only miss our cure or have it deferred till another Government make it but remain in the confusion we now suffer under and besides that shall be sure to feel first or last the calamity of a Civil and Foreign War and in the mean time to be in perpetual fear of it and suffer all the burden and charge which is necessary to provide for it besides all the other ill consequences of a standing Army To conclude I assure you in the Faith of a Christian that I have made this discourse solely and singly out of zeal and affection to the Interest of my Countrey and not at all with the least intention to favour or promote the Cause or Interest of the D. of York or to disparage the Duke of Monmouth from whom I never received the least unkindness nor ever had the honour to be in his Company and to whom I shall ever pay respect suitable to his high Birth and Merit Noble Ven. Well Sir your Reasoning in this point has extreamly satisfied me and the Doctor I suppose was so before as he averred therefore pray let us go on where we left Eng. Gent. I cannot take so much upon me as to be Dictator in the Method of our Cure since either of you is a thousand times better qualified for such an Office and therefore shall henceforth desire to be an Auditor Doct. Pray Sir let us not spend time in Compliments but be pleased to proceed in this business and we doubt not but as you have hitherto wonderfully delighted us so you will gratifie us in concluding it Eng. Gent. I see I must obey you but pray help me and tell me in the first place whether you do not both believe that as the causa causarum of all our Distractions is as has been proved the breach of our Government so that the immediate Causes are two First The great distrust on both sides between the King and his People and Parliament the first fearing that his Power will be so lessened by degrees that at length it will not be able to keep the Crown upon his head And the latter seeing all things in disorder and that the Laws are not executed which is the second of the two Causes fear the King intends to change the Government and be Arbitrary Noble Ven. I am a Stranger but though I never reflected so much upon the Original Cause as I have done since I heard you discourse of it yet I ever thought that those two were the Causes of the Unquietness of this Kingdom I mean the Jealousie between the King and his People and the Inexecution of the great Laws of Calling Parliaments Annually and letting them sit to dispatch their Affairs I understand this in the time of His Majesties Grand-Father and Father more than in His own Reign Eng. Gent. Then whoever can absolutely lay these two Causes asleep for ever will arrive to a perfect Cure which I conceive no way of doing but that the King have a great deal more Power or a great deal less And you know that what goes out of the King must go into the People and so vice versa Insomuch that the People must have a great deal more Power or a great deal less Now it is no question but either of these two would rather increase their Power than diminish it so that if this cannot be made up by the Wisdom of this Age we may see in the next that both the King will endeavour to be altogether without a Parliament and the Parliament to be without a King Doct. I begin to smell that you would be nibbling at the pretence which some had before his Majesties Restauration of a Commonwealth or Democracy Eng. Gent. No I abhor the thoughts of wishing much less endeavouring any such thing during these Circumstances we are now in That is under Oaths of Obedience to a Lawful King And truly if any Themistocles should make to me such a Proposal I should give the same Judgment concerning it that Aristides did in such a Case The Story is short After the War between the Greeks and the Persians was ended and Xerxes driven out of Greece the whole Fleet of the Grecian Confederates except that of Athens which was gone home lay in a great Arsenal such as were then in use upon the Coast of Attica during their abode there Themistocles harrangues one day the People of Athens as was then the Custome and tells them that he had a design in his head which would be of Infinite profit and advantage to the Commonwealth But that it could not be executed without the Order and Authority of them and that it did likewise require secresie and if it were declared there in the Market place where Strangers as well as Citizens might be present it could
and a Recruit of an equal number come in And in three Years they shall be all new and no Person to come into that Council or any other of the four till he have kept out of any of them full three Years being as long as he was in And this I learnt from your Quarantia's at Venice and the Use is excellent for being in such a Circulation and sure to have their intervals of Power they will neither grow so insolent as to brave their King nor will the Prince have any occasion to corrupt them although he had the means to do it which in this new Model he cannot have These Men in their several Councils should have no other instructions but to dispose of all things and act in their several Charges for the Interest and Glory of England and shall be Answerable to Parliament from time to time for any malicious or advised Misdemeanor only that Council which manages the Publick Revenue shall besides a very copious and Honourable Revenue which shall be left to His Majesty's disposal for his own Entertainment as belongs to the Splendor and Majesty of the Government have Instructions to serve His Majesty if he pleases to command them and not otherwise in the regulating and ordering his Oeconomy and Houshold and if they shall see it necessary for extraordinary Occasions of treating Foreign Princes and Ambassadors or Presenting them and the like Ostentation of Greatness to consent with His Majesty moderately to charge the Revenue to that end I verily believe that this Expedient is much more effectual than either the Iustitia of Aragon was or the Ephores of Sparta Who being to check the King almost in every thing without having any share in his Councils or understanding them could not chuse but make a sullen posture of Affairs whereas these both seem and really are the King's Ministers only obliged by Parliament to act faithfully and honestly to which even without that all other Councellors are bound by Oath As for the other Council now called the Privy Council the King may still please to continue to nominate them at his pleasure so they act nothing in any of the Matters properly within the Jurisdiction of these four Councils but meddle with the Affairs of Merchants Plantations Charters and other Matters to which the Regal Power extendeth And provided that His Majesty call none of the Persons employed in these other four Councils during their being so nor that this Council do any way intermeddle with any Affairs Criminal or Civil which are to be decided by Law and do belong to the Jurisdictions of other Courts or Magistrates they being no established Judicatory or Congregation which either our Government or Laws do take notice of as was said before but Persons congregated by the King as his Friends and faithful Subjects to give him their Opinion in the Execution of his Regal Office As for Example the King does exercise at this time a Negative Voice as to Bills presented to him by the Parliament which he claims by Right no Man ever said that the Privy Council had a Negative Voice yet former Kings did not only as their Advice as to the passing or not passing of such Bills but often decided the Matter by their Votes which although it be a high Presumption in them when they venture to give him Council contrary to what is given him by his greatest Council yet never any of them have been questioned for it being looked upon as private Men who speak according to the best of their Cunning and such as have no publick Capacity at all But if this be not so and that this Council have some Foundation in Law and some publick Capacity I wish in this new Settlement it may be made otherwise and that His Majesty please to take their Counsel in private but summon no Persons to appear before them much less give them Authority to send for in Custody or Imprison any Subject which may as well be done by the Judges and Magistrates who if Secrecy be required may as well be Sworn to Secrecy as these Gentlemen and I believe can keep Counsel as well and give it too Nob. Ven. But would you have none to manage State-Affairs none Imprisoned for secret Conspiracies and kept till they can be fully discovered you have made an Act here lately about Imprisonments that every Person shall have his Habeas Corpus I think you call it so that no Man for what occasion soever can lie in Prison above a Night but the Cause must be revealed though there be great cause for the concealing it Eng. Gent. This Act you mention and a great many more which we have to the same purpose that is against Illegal Imprisonments shews that for a long time the Power over Men's Persons has been exercised under His Majesty by such as were very likely rather to employ it ill than well that is would rather Imprison ten Men for Honourable Actions such as standing for the People's Rights in Parliament refusing to pay Illegal Taxes and the like than one for projecting and inventing Illegal Monopolies or any other kind of oppressing the People This made first Magna Charta then the Petition of Right and divers other Acts besides this last take that Power quite away and make the Law and the Judges the only Disposers of the Liberties of our Persons And it may be when the Parliament shall see the Fruit of this Alteration we are now discoursing of and that State-Affairs are in better hands they may think fit to provide that a Return or Warrant of Imprisonment from one of these Four Councils which I suppose will have a Power of Commitment given them as to Persons appearing Delinquents before them wherein it shall be expressed That if the Publick is like to suffer or be defrauded if the Matter be immediately divulged I say in this Case the Parliament may please to make it Lawful for the Judge to delay the Bailing of him for some small time because it is not to be judged that these Councellours so chosen and so instructed and to continue so small a time will use this Power ill especially being accountable for any abusing of it to the next Parliament And I suppose the Parliament amongst other Provisions in this behalf will require that there shall be a Register kept of all the Votes of these several Councils with the names as well of those who consented as of such who dissented And as to the former part of your Question whether I would have none to manage State Affairs I think there are very few State Affair that do not concern either Peace and War and Treaties abroad the management of the Arms Militia and posse Comitatus at home the management of all the Publick Moneys and the Election of all Officers whatsoever the other parts of State Affairs which are Making and Repealing of Laws punishing high Crimes against the State with Levying and Proportioning all manner of
PLATO REDIVIVUS OR A DIALOGUE CONCERNING Government Wherein by Observations drawn from other KINGDOMS and STATES both Ancient and Modern an Endeavour is used to discover the present POLITICK DISTEMPER of our OWN with the CAUSES and REMEDIES Non Ego sum Vates sed Prisci conscius aevi Pluribus exemplis haec tibi Mysta Cano. Res nolunt male administrari The Second Edition with Additions LONDON Printed for S.I. and Sold by R. Dew 1681. THE PUBLISHER TO THE READER Courteous Reader ALL the Account I can give thee of this Piece is that about the middle of October last it was sent to me accompanied with a Letter without a Name and written in a Hand altogether unknown to me though different from the Character of the Dialogue it self and the Argument The Letter was very short and contained only that the Writer having the fortune to meet with this Discourse of which he denied to be the Author he thought it very fit to be sent to me to the end if I thought it could be of any advantage to me and no prejudice I might publish it if I pleased and make my best of it When I had opened it and perceived that it treated of Government and of the present Times I supposing it to be something of the nature of those scurrulous Libels which the Press spawns every day was extreamly displeased with my Servant for receiving in my absence and in these dangerous days such a Pacquet without taking any account or notice of the Messenger who brought it 'till he to appease me assured me that the Bearer did look like a Gentleman and had a very unsuitable Garb to a Trapan and that he did believe he had seen him often at my Shop and that I knew him well When I had begun to read it and found no harm I was resolved to peruse it in the Company of a Gentleman a worthy Friend of mine who to his exact Skill and Learning in the Laws of his Country hath added a very profound Knowledge in all other Literature and particularly the excellence of Platonick Philosophy When we had joyntly gone through it he was clearly of Opinion That although some might be angry with certain passages in it yet the Discourse reflecting upon no particular person was very uncapable of bringing me into any danger for publishing it either from the State or from any private Man When I had secured my self against Damnum Emergens we went about the Consideration of the other part of the distinction of the Schools which is Lucrum cessans And I made some Objections against the probability of vending this Dialogue to Profit which in things of my Trade is always my design as it ought to be My first Fear in that behalf was that this Author would disgust the Reader in being too confident and positive in matters of high a Speculation My Friend replied that the Assurance he shewed was void of all Sawciness and expressed with great Modesty and that he verily believed that he meant very faithfully and sincerely towards the Interest of England My next doubt was that a considerable part of this Treatise being a Repetition of a great many Principles and Positions out of Oceana the Author would be discredited for borrowing from another and the Sale of the Book hindred To that my Friend made answer that before ever Oceana came out there were very many Treatises and Pamphlets which alledged the Political Principle That Empire was founded in Property and discoursed rationally upon it Amongst the rest one entituled A Letter from an Officer in Ireland to His Highness the Lord Protector which he then shewed me printed in 1653. as I remember which was more than three years before Oceana was written and yet said he no Man will aver that the Learned Gentleman who writ that Book had stollen from that Pamphlet For whosoever sets himself to study Politicks must do it by reading History and observing in it the several Turns and Revolutions of Government and then the Cause of such Change will be so visible and obvious that we need not impute Theft to any Man that finds it out it being as lawful and as easie for any Person as well as for the Author of Oceana or that Pamphlet to read Thucidides Polybius Livy or Plutarch and if he do so with attentiveness he shall be sure to find the same things there that they have found And if this were not Lawful when that any one Person has written in any Science no Man must write after him for in Polity the Orders of Government in Architecture the several Orders of Pillars Arches Architraves Cornishes c. In Physick the Causes Prognosticks and Crisis of Diseases are so exactly the same in all Writers that we may as well accuse all subsequent Authors to have been but Plagiaries of the Antecedent Besides this the Learned Gentleman added that Oceana was written it being thought Lawful so to do in those times to evince out of these Principles that England was not capable of any other Government than a Democracy And this Author out of the same Maxims or Aphorisms of Politicks endeavours to prove that they may be applied naturally and fitly to the redressing and supporting one of the best Monarchies in the World which is that of England I had but one Doubt more and that was an Objection against the Title which I resolved at the first not to mention because I could salve it by altering the Title Page But since I had opportunity I acquainted the Gentleman with it And it was That certainly no Man would ever buy a Book that had in Front of it so insolent and presumptuous a Motto as Plato Redivivus for that he must needs be thought not only vain in the highest degree but void of Sence and Iudgement too who compares himself with Plato the greatest Philosopher the greatest Politician I had almost said the greatest Divine too that ever lived My Counsellor told me that he had as great a resentment of any injury done to Plato as I or any Man could have But that he was hard to believe that this Man intended to compare himself to Plato either in Natural Parts or Learning but only to shew that he did imitate his way of Writing as to the manner of it though not the matter as he hath done exactly For Plato ever writ these high Matters in easie and familiar Dialogues and made the great Philosophers and learned men of that Age as Simias Cebes Timaeus Callias Phaedon c. yea and Socrates himself the Interlocutors although they never heard any thing of it till the Book came out And although talking of State Affairs in a Monarchy must needs be more offensive than it was in the Democracy where Plato lived And therefore our Author has forborn the naming the Persons who constitute this Dialogue yet he does make a pretty near Representation and Character of some Persons who I dare swear never heard of this
the two other Forms used amongst the Ancients and their Corruptions that so we may come to the Modern Governments and see how England stands and how it came to decay and what must Rebuild it Eng. Gent. You have very good Reason to hasten me to that for indeed all that has been said yet is but as it were a Preliminary discourse to the knowledge of the Government of England and its decay when it comes to the Cure I hope you will both help me for both your self and the Doctor are a thousand times better than I at Remedies But I shall dispatch the other two Governments Aristocracy or Optimacy is a Commonwealth where the better sort that is the Eminent and Rich men have the chief Administration of the Government I say the chief because there are very few ancient Optimacies but the People had some share as in Sparta where they had power to Vote but not Debate for so the Oracle of Apollo brought by Lycurgus from Delphos settles it But the truth is these people were the natural Spartans For Lycurgus divided the Country or Territory of Laconia into 39000 Shares whereof Nine thousand only of these Owners were Inhabitants of Sparta the rest lived in the Country so that although Thucidides call it an Aristocracy and so I follow him yet it was none of those Aristocracies usually described by the Politicians where the Lands of the Territory were in a great deal fewer Hands But call it what you will where ever there was an Aristocracy there the Property or very much the Over-ballance of it was in the hands of the Aristoi or Governours be they more or fewer for if the People have the greatest interest in the Property they will and must have it in the Empire A notable example of it is Rome the best and most glorious Government that ever the Sun saw where the Lands being equally divided amongst the Tribes that is the People it was impossible for the Patricii to keek them quiet till they yielded to their desires not only to have their Tribunes to see that nothing passed into a Law without their consent but also to have it declared that both the Consuls should not only be chosen by the people as they ever were and the Kings too before them but that they might be elected too when the people pleased out of Plebeian Families So that now I am come to Democracy Which you see is a Government where the chief part of the Soveraign Power and the exercise of it resides in the People and where the Style is Iessu populi authoritate patrum And it doth consist of three fundamental Orders The Senate proposing the People resolving and the Magistrates executing This Government is much more Powerful than an Aristocracy because the latter cannot arm the People for fear they should seize upon the Government and therefore are fain to make use of none but Strangers and Mercinaries for Souldiers which as the Divine Machiavil says has hindred your Commonwealth of Venice from mounting up to Heaven whither those incomparable Orders and that venerable Wisdom used by your Citizens in keeping to them would have carried you if in all your Wars you had not been ill served Doct. Well Sir pray let me ask you one thing concerning Venice How do you make out your Imperium fundatur in dominio there Have the Gentlemen there who are the Party governing the possession of the whole Territory Does not property remain entire to the Gentlemen and other Inhabitants in the several Countries of Padua Brescia Vicenza Verona Bergamo Creman Trevisi and Friuli as also in the Vltramarine Provinces and Islands And yet I believe you will not deny but that the Government of Venice is as well founded and hath been of as long continuance as any that now is or ever was in the World Eng. Gent. Doctor I shall not answer you in this because I am sure it will be better done by this Gentleman who is a worthy Son of that honourable Mother Noble Ven. I thought you had said Sir that we should have done Complimenting but since you do Command me to clear the Objection made by our learned Doctor I shall presume to tell you first how our City began The Goths Huns and Lombards coming with all the Violence and Cruelty immaginable to invade that part of Italy which we now call Terra firma and where our Ancestors did then inhabit forced them in great numbers to seek a shelter amongst a great many little Rocks or Islands which stood very thick in a vast Lake or rather Marsh which is made by the Adriatique Sea we call it Laguna here they began to build and getting Boats made themselves Provisions of all kind from the Land from whence innumerable people began to come to them finding that they could subsist and that the barbarous people had no Boats to attack them nor that they could be invaded either by Horse or Foot without them Our first Government and which lasted for many years was no more than what is practised in many Country Parishes in Italy and possibly here too where the Clerk or any other person calls together the chief of the Inhabitants to consider of Parish-business as chusing of Officers making of Rates and the like So in Venice when there was any publick provision to be made by way of law or otherwise some Officers went about to persons of the greatest Wealth and Credit to intreat them to meet and consult from whence our Senate is called to this day Consiglio de pregadi which in our Barbarous Idiom is as much as Pregati in Tuscan Language Our security increased daily and so by consequence our Number and our Riches for by this time there began to be another inundation of Sarazens upon Asia Minor which forced a great many of the poor people of Greece to fly to us for protection giving us the possession of some Islands and other places upon the Continent This opened us a Trade and gave a beginning to our greatness but chiefly made us consider what Government was fittest to conserve our selves and keep our Wealth for we did not then much dream of Conquests else without doubt we must have made a popular Government we pitcht upon an Aristocracy by ordering that those who had been called to Council for that present year and for four years before should have the Government in their hands and all their Posterity after them for ever which made first the distinction between Gentlemen and Citizens the People who consisted of divers Nations most of them newly come to inhabit there aud generally seeking nothing but safety and ease willingly consented to this change and so this State hath continued to this day though the several Orders and Counsels have been brought in since by degrees as our Nobility encreased and for other causes Under this Government we have made some Conquests in Italy and Greece for our City stood like a Wall between the
publisht by Mr. Petit of the Temple and Mr. Attwood of grays-Inne being Gentlemen whom I do mention honoris causa and really they deserve to be honor'd that they will spare some time from the Mechanical part of their Callings which is to assist Clients with Counsel and to plead their Causes and which I acknowledg likewise to be honourable to study the true Interest of their Country and to show how ancient the Rights of the People in England are and that in a time when neither Profit nor Countenance can be hop'd for from so ingenious an undertaking But I beg pardon for the deviation Of the three branches of Soveraign Power which Politicians mention which are Enacting Laws Levying of Taxes and making War and Peace the two first of them are indisputably in the Parliament and when I say Parliament I ever intend with the King The last has been usually exercis'd by the Prince if he can do it with his own Money yet ' because even in that Case it may be ruinous to the Kingdom by exposing it to an Invasion many have affirmed that such a Power cannot be by the true and ancient free Government of England supposed to be Intrusted in the hands of one man And therefore we see in divers Kings Reigns the Parliament has been Consulted and their advice taken in those matters that have either concerned War or Leagues And that if it has been omitted Addresses have been made to the king by Parliaments either to make war or peace according to what they thought profitable to the publick So that I will not determine whether that power which draws such consequences after it be by the genuine sence of our Laws in the Prince or no although I know of no Statute or written Record which makes it otherwise That which is undoubtedly the Kings Right or prerogative is to Call and Dissolve Parliaments to preside in them to approve of all Acts made by them and to put in Execution as Supream or Soveraign Magistrate in the Intervals of Parliaments and during their Sitting all Laws made by them as also the Common Law for which Cause he has the nomination of all Inferiour Officers and Ministers under him excepting such as by Law or Charter are eligible otherwise and the Power of the Sword to force Obedience to the Judgements given both in Criminal and Civil Causes Doct. Sir You have made us a very absolute Prince what have we left us if the King have all this Power what do our Liberties or Rights signifie whenever he pleases Eng. Gent. This Objection Doctor makes good what I said before that your skill did not terminate in the body natural but extend to the Politick for a more pertinent Interrogatory could never have been made by Plato or Aristotle In answer to which you may please to understand That when these Constitutions were first made our Ancestors were a plain-hearted well-meaning People without Court-reserves or tricks who having made choice of this sort of Government and having Power enough in their hands to make it take place did not foresee or imagine that any thoughts of Invading their Rights could enter into the Princes Head nor do I read that it ever did till the Norman Line came to Reign which coming in by Treaty it was obvious there was no Conquest made upon any but Harold in whose stead William the First came and would claim no more after his Victory than what Harold enjoy'd excepting that he might confiscate as he did those great men who took part with the wrong Title and French-men were put into their Estates which though it made in this Kingdom a mixture between Normans and Saxons yet produced no Change or Innovation in the Government the Norman Peers â—â—ing as tenacious of their Liberties and as active in the recovery of them to the full as the Saxon Families were Soon after the death of William and possibly in his time there began some Invasions upon the Rights of the Kingdom 〈…〉 gat Grievances and afterwards 〈…〉 plants and Discontents which grew to that height that the Peers were fain to use their Power that is Arm their Vassals to defend the Government whilest the Princes of that Age first King Iohn and then Henry the Third got Force together The Barons call'd in Lewis the Dauphin whilst the King would have given away the Kingdom to the Sarazens as he did to the Pope and armed their own Creatures so that a bloody War ensued for almost forty years off and on as may be read in our History The success was that the Barons or Peers obtained in the close two Charters or Laws for the ascertaining their Rights by which neither their Lives Liberties or Estates could ever be in danger any more from any Arbitrary Power in the Prince and so the good Government of England which was before this time like the Law of Nature onely written in the hearts of Men came to be exprest in Parchment and remain a Record in Writing though these Charters gave us no more than what was our own before After these Charters were made there could not chuse but happen some encroachment upon them but so long as the Peers kept their greatness there was no breaches but what were immediately made up in Parliament which when-ever they assembled did in the first place confirm the Charters and made very often Interpretations upon them for the benefit of the People witness the Statute de Tallagio non concedendo and many others But to come nearer the giving the Doctor an answer you may please to understand that not long after the framing of these forementioned Charters there did arise a Grievance not foreseen or provided for by them and it was such an one that had beaten down the Government at once if it had not been Redressed in an Orderly way This was the Intermission of Parliaments which could not be called but by the Prince and he not doing of it they ceast to be Assembled for some years if this had not been speedily remedied the Barons must have put on their Armour again for who can Imagine that such brisk Assertors of their Rights could have acquiesced in an Omission that ruin'd the Foundation of the Government which consisting of King Lords and Commons and having at that time Marched near Five hundred years upon three Leggs must then have gone on hopping upon one which could it have gone forward as was impossible whilest Property continued where it was yet would have rid but a little way Nor can it be wonder'd at that our great Men made no provision against this Grievance in their Charters because it was impossible for them to imagine that their Prince who had so good a share in this Government should go about to destroy it and to take that burden upon himself which by our Constitution was undeniably to be divided between him and his Subjects And therefore divers of the great Men of those times speaking with that
for the disappointing the Counsels of a Parliament towards reforming Grievances and making provision for the future execution of the Lawes and whenever it is applyed to frustrate those ends it is a violation of Right and infringement of the King's Coronation-Oath in which there is this Clause That he shall Confirmare consuetudines which in the Latine of those times is leges quas vulgus elegerit I know some Criticks who are rather Grammarians than Lawyers have made a distinction between elegerim and elegero and will have it That the King Swears to such Laws as the people shall have chosen and not to those they shall chuse But in my Opinion if that Clause had been intended onely to oblige the King to execute the Laws made already it might have been better exprest by servare consuetudines than by confirmare consuetudines besides that he is by another clause in the same Oath sworn to execute all the Laws But I shall leave this Controversie undecided those who have a desire to see more of it may look into those quarrelling Declarations pro and con about this matter which preceded our unhappy Civil Wars This is certain that there are not to be found any Statutes that have passed without being presented to his Majesty or to some commissioned by him but whether such Addresses were intended for Respect and Honour to His Majesty as the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Lord Mayor of London are brought to him I leave to the Learned to Discourse onely thus much we may affirm That there never were yet any Parliamentary Requests which did highly concern the Publick presented to any King and by him refused but such denials did produce very dismal effects as may be seen in our Histories ancient and late it being certain that both the Barons Wars and our last dismal Combustions proceeded from no other cause than the denial of the Princes then reigning to consent to the desires of the States of the Kingdom and such hath been the wisdom and goodness of our present gracious Prince that in twenty years and somewhat more for which time we have enjoy'd him since his happy Restauration he hath not exercis'd his Negative Voice towards more than one publick Bill and that too was to have continued in force if it had passed into an Act but for six Weeks being for raising the Militia for so long time and as for the private Bills which are matters of meer grace it is unreasonable his Majesty should be refused that Right that every Englishman enjoys which is not to be obliged to dispence his favours but where he pleases But for this point of the Negative Vote it is possible that when we come to Discourse of the Cure of our Political Distemper some of you will propose the clearing and explanation of this matter and of all others which may concern the King's Power and the Peoples Rights Noble Ven. But pray Sir have not the House of Peers a Negative Voice in all Bills how come they not to be obliged to use it for the Publick Good Eng. Gent So they are no doubt and the Commons too but there is a vast difference between a deliberative Vote which the Peers have with their Negative and that in the Crown to blast all without deliberating The Peers are Co-ordinate with the Commons in presenting and hammering of Laws and may send Bills down to them as well as receive any from them excepting in matters wherein the People are to be Taxed and in this our Government imitates the best and most perfect Commonwealths that ever were where the Senate assisted in the making of Laws and by their wisdom and dexterity polisht fil'd and made ready things for the more populous Assemblies and sometimes by their gravity and moderation reduced the People to a Calmer State and by their authority and credit stem'd the Tide and made the Waters quiet giving the People time to come to themselves And therefore if we had no such Peerage now upon the old Constitution yet we should be necessitated to make an artificial Peerage or Senate in stead of it which may assure our present Lords that though their Dependences and Power are gone yet that we cannot be without them and that they have no need to fear an annihilation by our Reformation as they suffered in the late mad times But I shall speak a word of the peoples Rights and then shew how this brave and excellent Government of England came to decay The People by the Fundamental Laws that is by the Constitution of the Government of England have entire freedome in their Lives Properties and their Persons nether of which can in the least suffer but according to the Laws already made or to be made hereafter in Parliament and duly publisht and to prevent any oppression that might happen in the execution of these good Laws which are our Birth-right all Tryals must be by twelve Men of our equals and of our Neighbourhood These in all Civil Causes judge absolutely and decide the matter of Fact upon which the matter of Law depends but if where matter of Law is in question these twelve Men shall refuse to find a special Verdict at the direction of the Court the Judge cannot Controul it but their Verdict must be Recorded But of these matters as also of Demurrers Writs of Errour and Arrests of Judgment c. I have discours'd to this Gentleman who is a Stranger before now neither do's the understanding of the Execution of our Municipal Laws at all belong to this discourse Onely it is to be noted that these Juries or twelve Men in all Trials or Causes which are Criminal have absolute Power both as to matter of Law and Fact except the Party by Demurrer confess the matter of Fact and take it out of their hands And the first question the Officer asks the Foreman when they all come in to deliver their Verdict is this Is he Guilty in manner or form as he is Indicted or not Guilty which shews plainly that they are to Examine and Judge as well whether and how far the Fact committed is Criminal as whether the person charged hath committed that Fact But though by the Corruption of these times the infallible consequences of a broken frame of Government this Office of the Juries and Right of Englishmen have been of late question'd yet it hath been strongly and effectually vindicated by a learned Author of late to whom I refer you for more of this matter I shall say no more of the Rights of the People but this one thing That neither the King nor any by Authority from him hath any the least Power or Jurisdiction over any Englishman but what the Law gives them and that although all Commissions and Writs go out in the King's name yet his Majesty hath no right to Issue out any Writ with advice of his Council or otherwise excepting what come out of his Courts nor to alter
in the Property of the Peers and Church whose Lands five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tâ—llitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as fearing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King Iames's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir Iames a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name is Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King Iames to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will
not to teach nor will I presume in such a matter to talk all as you have made me do to day for what I have yet to say in the point of Cure is so little that it will look like the Mouse to the Mountain of this days discourse Doct. It is so in all Arts the Corollary is short and in ours particularly Those who write of the several Diseases incident to humane bodies must make long Discourses of the Causes Symptomes Signs and Prognosticks of such Distempers but when they come to treat of the Cure it is dispatched in a few Recipes Eng. Gent. Well Sir for this bout I humbly take my leave of you nay Sir you are not in a condition to use ceremony Doct. Sir I forbid you this door pray retire to stand here is worse than to be in the open air Noble Ven. I obey you both Doct. I shall wait on you in the Evening The THIRD DAY Noble Ven. GEntlemen you are very welcome what you are come both together Doct. I met this Gentleman at the door But methinks we sit looking one upon another as if all of us were afraid to speak Eng. Gent. Do you think we have not reason in such a subject as this is how can any Man without Hesitation presume to be so confident as to deliver his private opinion in a point upon which for almost 200 year for so long our Government has been crazy no Man has ventured and when Parliaments have done any thing towards it there have been Animosities and Breaches and at length Civil Wars Noble Ven. Our work to day is to endeavour to shew how all these troubles may be prevented for the future by taking away the Cause of them which is the want of a good Government and therefore it will not be so much presumption in you as charity to declare your self fully in this matter Eng. Gent. The Cure will follow naturally if you are satisfied in the Disease and in the Cause of the Disease for if you agree that our Government is broken and that it is broken because it was Founded upon Property and that Foundation is now shaken it will be obvious that you must either bring Property back to your old Government and give the King and Lords their Lands again or else you must bring the Government to the Property as it now stands Doct. I am very well satisfied in your Grounds but because this Fundamental truth is little understood amongst our People and that in all conversations men will be offering their opinions of what the Parliament ought to do at their Meeting it will not be amiss to examine some of those Expedients they propose and to see whether some or all of them may not be effectual towards the bringing us to some degree of settlement rather than to venture upon so great a change and alteration as would be necessary to model our Government anew Eng. Gent. Sir I believe there can be no Expedients proposed in Parliament that will not take up as much time and trouble find as much difficulty in passing with the King and Lords and seem as great a change of Government as the true remedy would appear at least I speak as to what I have to propose but however I approve your Method and if you will please to propose any of those things I shall either willingly embrace them or endeavour to shew reason why they will be of little fruit in the settling our State Doct. I will reduce them to two Heads besides the making good Laws for keeping out Arbitrary Power which is always understood the hindering the growth of Popery and consequently the providing against a Popish Successor and then the declaring the Duke of Monmouth's Right to the Crown after it hath been examined and agreed to in Parliament Eng. Gent. As for the making new Laws I hold it absolutely needless those we have already against Arbitrary Power being abundantly sufficient if they might be executed but that being impossible as I shall shew hereafter till some change shall be made I shall postpone this point and for the first of your other two I shall divide and separate the consideration of the growth of Popery from that of the Succession I am sorry that in the prosecution of this Argument I shall be forced to say something that may not be very pleasing to this worthy Gentleman we being necessitated to discourse with prejudice of that Religion which he professes but it shall be with as little ill breeding as I can and altogether without passion or invectives Noble Ven. It would be very hard for me to suspect any thing from you that should be disobliging but pray Sir go on to your Political discourse for I am not so ignorant my self but to know that the conservation of the National Religion be it what it will is assential to the well ordering a State and though in our City the doctrinals are very different from what are professed here yet as to the Government of the State I believe you know that the Pope or his Priests have as little influence upon it as your Clergy have here or in any part of the World Eng. Gent. I avow it fully Sir and with the favour you give will proceed It cannot be denyed but that in former times Popery has been very innocent here to the Government and that the Clergy and the Pope were so far from opposing our Liberties that they both sided with the Barons to get a declaration of them by means of Magna Charta It is true also that if we were all Papists and that our State were the same both as to Property and Empire as it was 400 years ago there would be but one inconvenience to have that Religion National again in England which is That the Clergy quatenus such had and will have a share in the Soveraignty and inferiour Courts in their own Power called Ecclesiastical this is and ever will be a Solecism in Government besides a manifest contradiction to the words of Christ our Saviour who tells us his Kingdom is not of this World and the truth is if you look into the Scriptures you will find that the Apostles did not reckon that the Religion they planted should be National in any Country and therefore have given no precepts to the Magistrate to meddle in matters of Faith and the Worship of God but Preach'd That Christians should yield them obedience in all lawfull things There are many passages in Holy Writ which plainly declare that the true Believers and Saints should be but a handful and such as God had separated and as it were taken out of the World which would not have been said by them if they had believed that whole Nations and People should have been true Followers of Christ and of his Flock for certainly none of them are to be damn'd and yet Christ himself tells us that few are saved and bids us strive to get in at the strait
of desiring more Prayers and Addressing himself to our Senate to Mediate with the Pope that a week might be set apart for a Jubilee and Fasting three days all over the Christian World to storm Heaven with Masses Prayers Fasting and Almes to prosper his Designs he began to open the Matter That the Cause of all the Wickedness and Sin and by Consequence of all the Miseries and Affliction which is in the World arising from the enmity which is between God and the Devil by which means God was often cross'd in his Intentions of good to Mankind here and hereafter the Devil by his temptations making us uncapable of the Mercy and Favour of our Creator therefore he had a Design with the helps before mentioned to mediate with Almighty God That he would pardon the Devil and receive him into his Favour again after so long a time of Banishment and Imprisonment and not to take all his power from him but to leave him so much as might do good to Man and not hurt which he doubted not but he would imploy that way after such reconciliation was made which his Faith would not let him question You may judge what the numerous Auditory thought of this I can only tell you that he had a different fort of Company at his return from what he had when he came for the Men left him to the Boys who with great Hoops instead of Acclamations brought him to the Gondola which conveyed him to the Redentor where he lodged And I never had the curiosity to enquire what became of him after Doct. I thank you heartily for this Intermess I see you have learnt something in England for I assure you we have been these twenty Years turning this and all serious Discourses into Ridicule but yet your Similitude is very pat for in every Parliament that has been in England these sixty Years we have had notable Contests between the Seed of the Serpent and the Seed of the Woman Eng. Gent. Well Sir we have had a Michael here in our Age who has driven out Lucifer and restored the true Deity to his Power but where Omnipotency is wanting which differs the Frier's Case and mine the Devil of Civil War and Confusion may get up again if he be not laid by prudence and Vertue and better Conjurers than any we have yet at Court Noble Ven. Well Gentlemen I hope you have pardoned me for my Farce But to be a little more serious pray tell me how you will induce the King to give up so much of his Right as may serve your turn Would you have the Parliament make War with him again Eng. Gent. There cannot nor ought to be any Change but by his Majesty's free Consent for besides that a War is to be abhorred by all Men that love their Country any Contest of that kind in this case viz. to take away the least part of the Kings Right could be justified by no man living I say besides that a Civil War has miscarried in our days which was founded at least pretendedly upon Defence of the People's own Rights In which although they had as clear a Victory in the end as ever any Contest upon Earth had yet could they never reap the least advantage in the World by it but went from one Tyranny to another from Barebones Parliament to Cromwell's Reign from that to a Committee of Safety leaving those Grave Men who managed Affairs at the beginning amazed to see new Men and new Principles Governing England And this induced them to Co-operate to bring things back just where they were before the War Therefore this Remedy will be either none or worse than the Disease It not being now as it was in the Barons time when the Lord who led out his Men could bring them back again when he pleased and Rule them in the mean time being his Vassals But now there is no Man of so much Credit but that one who behaves himself bravely in the War shall out-vye him and possibly be able to do what he pleases with the Army and the Government And in this corrupt Age it is ten to one he will rather do Hurt than Good with the Power he acquires But because you ask me how we would perswade the King to this I answer by the Parliament's humbly Remonstrating to His Majesty that it is his own Interest Preservation Quiet and true Greatness to put an end to the Distractions of his Subjects and that it cannot be done any other way and to desire him to enter into debate with some Men Authorized by them to see if there can be any other means than what they shall offer to compose things if they find there may then to embrace it otherwise to insist upon their own Proposals and if in the end they cannot obtain those Requests which they think the only essential means to preserve their Country then to beg their Dismission that they may not stay and be partakers in the Ruin of it Now my Reasons why the King will please to grant this after the thorough discussing of it are two First Because all great Princes have ever made up Matters with their Subjects upon such Contests without coming to Extremities The two greatest and most Valiant of our Princes were Edward the First and his Grandchild Edward the Third these had very great Demands made them by Parliaments and granted them all as you may see upon the Statute-Book Edward the Second and Richard the Second on the contrary refused all things till they were brought to Extremity There is a Memorable Example in the Greek Story of Theopompus King of Sparta whose Subjects finding the Government in disorder for want of some Persons that might be a Check upon the great Power of the King proposed to him the Creation of the Ephores Officers who made that City so great and Famous afterwards The King finding by their Reasons which were unanswerable as I think ours now are that the whole Government of Sparta was near its Ruin without such a Cure and considering that he had more to lose in that Disorder than others freely granted their desires for which being derided by his Wife who asked him what a kind of Monarchy he would leave to his Son answered a very good one because it will be a very lasting one Which brings on my Second Reason for which I believe the King will grant these things because he cannot any way mend himself nor his Condition if he do not Noble Ven. You have very fully convinced me of two things First That we have no reason to expect or believe that the Parliament will ever increase the Kings Power And then that the King cannot by any way found himself a New and more absolute Monarchy except he can alter the Condition of Property which I think we may take for granted to be impossible But yet I know not why we may not suppose that although he cannot establish to all Posterity such an