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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13028	An assertion for true and Christian church-policie VVherein certaine politike obiections made against the planting of pastours and elders in every congregation, are sufficientlie aunswered. And wherein also sundrie projectes are set downe, how the discipline by pastors & elders may be planted, without any derogation to the Kings royal prerogatiue, any indignitie to the three estates in Parleament, or any greater alteration of the laudable lawes, statutes, or customes of the realme, then may well be made without damage to the people.	Stoughton, William, fl. 1584.; Knollys, Francis, Sir, d. 1643.	1604 (1604)	STC 23318; ESTC S117843	177,506	448

deforced wronged or otherwise kept or put from his lawfull inheritāce estate seysin c. of in or to the same by anie person clayming or pretending to haue interest or title in or to the same that then in all and euerie such case the person so disseysed deforced or wrongfullie kept from his right or possession shall and may haue his remedie in the Kings temporal Courtes as the case shal require for the recouvery of such inheritance by writt originall c. to be devised and graunted out of the Kinges Court of Chancerie in like maner c. It is there likewise provided that that Act shal not extend nor be expounded to giue anie remedie cause of action or suite in the Courtes temporall against any person which shall refuse to set out his Tythes or which shall deteigne c. his Tythes and offerings But that in all such cases the partie c. having cause to demand or haue the same tythes shal haue his action for the same in the Ecclesiasticall Courtes accordinge to the ordenance in the first part of that act mentioned and none otherwise Now then sit hence euery person whether he be laie or Ecclesiasticall having ●●ght to demand tythes and offeringes hath the partie from whom those tythes 〈◊〉 due bound obliged vnto him and thence also the partie not dividinge yeelding or paying his tythes doth actuallie and reallie deteigne the same and thereby doth vniustlie wrong the partie to whom they be due contrarie to iustice the Kings lawes sithence I say these things be so what alteratiō or disadvantage could befall or ensue to the common law or the Professors thereof if so bee it might please the King with his Parleament to haue the last part of this Act so to be explaned extended and enlarged as that the same might giue remedie in the Kings temporall Courts by writt original to be devised granted out of the Chācerie against any person deteigning his tythes and offerings● the Hospitall of St Leonards in Yorke of the Kings foundatiō and Patronage Hospitall of S. Leonard 1. 2. H. 6. c 2 endowed of a thrave of corne to be taken yerely of euery ploūgh earing with in the Counties of Yorke Comberlande Westmerland and Lancaster hauing no sufficient or covenable remedie at the common law against such as withheld the same thraves it was ordeigned by the King in Parleament that the Maister of the said Hospitall and his successors might haue actions by writt or plaintes of debt or detinue at their pleasure against all and every of them that deteyned the same thraves for to recover the same thraves with their damages And by a statute 32. H. 8. c. 44. it is enacted That the Parsons and Curates of five parish churches whereinto the Towne of Roysen did extend it selfe and everie of them the successors of every of them shall haue their remedie by authoritie of that Act to sue demaund aske recover in the Kings Court of Chancerie the Tythes of corne hay wooll lambe and calfe subtracted or denyed to bee paide by any person or persons Againe Vicars Parsons or Improprietaries do implead any man in the ecclesiasticall Court for tythes of wood beeing of the age of 20. yeeres or aboue for tyth-hay out of a medow for the which tyme out of mind memorie of man there hath onely some Meade-silver bin paied or if a debate hang in a spirituall Court for the right of tythes having his originall from the right of Patronage the ●uātite of the same tythes do passe the ●urth part of the value of the benefice prohibition in all these and sundrie other cases doth lie and the matters are to be tried and examined in the Kinges Courts according to the course of the common lawe vnlesse vpon iust cause there be graunted a consultation And if in these cases in maintenance of the common law the defendants haue relief in the Kinges Courts I thinke it more meete to leave it to the consideration rather of cōmon then to the iudgemēt of canon Lawiers to determine what alteration the common law could sustayne in case all Plaintiffes aswell as some defendants might pray the Kings ayd for the recovery of tythes especially seeing at this day the maner of paying tythes in England for the most part is now limited by the cōmon and statute lawes of the Realm and not by any forraigne canon law Obiect But there is some fact happely so difficile so secreat and so mystical in these causes of tythes as the same cannot without a very great alteration of the common law be so much as opened before a lay Iudge or of the hidden knowledge wherof the Kings temporall Iudges are not capable Answere Why then let vs see of what nature that inextricable fact may bee I haue perused many libels made and exhibited before the ecclesiasticall What facts touching the witholding of tythes are examinable in the ecclesiasticall Courts Iudges yea and I haue read them over and over and yet for grounde of complaint did I never perceave any other materiall and principall kinde of facte ' examinable in those Courts but onely such as follow First that the partie agent is eyther Rector Vicar Proprieiarie or Possessor of such a Parish-Church and of the Rectorie Vicarage farm possession or dominion of the same and by vertue thereof hath right vnto all Tythes oblations c. apparteyning to the same Church and growing with on the same Parish bounds limitts or places tythable of the same Secondly that his predecessors Rectors Vicars c. tyme out of minde and memorie of man haue quietly and peaceably receaued and had all and singular Tythes oblations c increasing growing and renuing within the Parish c. and that they and he haue bin and are in peaceable possession of hauing and receaving Tythes oblations c. Thirdly that the partie defendant hath had and received in such a yere c. of so many sheepe feeding and couching within the said Parish c. so many fleeces of woll and of so many ewes so many lambes c. Fourthly that the defendant hath not set out yealded or paid the Tyth of the wooll and lambe and that every Tyth fleece of the said wooll by common estimation is worth so much and that every Tyth lamb by cōmon estimation is likewise worth so much c. Fiftly that the defendant is subiect to the iurisdiction of that Court wherevnto hee is sommoned Lastly that the defendant doth hetherto deny or delay to pay his Tythes notwithstanding hee hath bin requested there vnto These and such like are the chief matters The Kinges Iustices are as able to iudge of exceptions against tithes as the ecclesiastical Iudges of fact wherevpon in the ecclesiasticall Courts proofes by witnesses or recordes rest to be made for the recoverie of tythes And who knoweth not but that these facts vpon proofes made before the Kinges Iustices may aswell bee decided by

the ordinaries in every Parish for the better retayning of the people in obedience vnto divine service In everie Parish saith the Iniunction three or foure discrete men which tender Gods glorie and his true religion shall be appointed by the ordinaries diligentlie to see that all the parishioners duelie resort vnto their Church vpon all Sundayes and holie dayes and there to continue the whole time of the godlie service And all such as shall be negligent in resorting to the Church having no great or vrgent cause of absence they shall streightlie call vpon them and after due admonition if they amēd not they shall denounce them to the ordinarie Thus far the iniuction Which that it is not meant of the Church Wardens appeareth by the verie next article for vnto them as is assigned an other name so also another Office That sidemen also are not these kinde of overseers is playne in that they be neither so manie in number as are here required neither chosen by the ordinaries neither yet do they admonish denounce according to this article Wherefore because it is meete that the effect of this Iniunction being religious should bee put in due execution it seemeth a thing verie reasonable and much tending to the honour of the King that his Highnes vnder his letters patents would bee pleased to appoint three foure or more discrete and faithfull persons in everie Parish not onely to performe the effect of this article but also generallie to oversee the life and maners of the people that without great vrgent causes they resorte not vnto Typling-houses or houses of evill note and suspected fame and that vpon the Sabboths they vse no Heathnish dauncing about their disguised May-poles And after due admonition if they amend not to denoūce them to the Pastor of the place For then might the Pastor be encouraged to giue Book of the forme of ordeining Priestes his faithfull diligence as at the time of his ordination hee solemlie promiseth vnto the Bishop alwayes to Minister the Doctrine and Sacramentes and Discipline of Christ as the Lorde hath commanded by which words inserted in the booke there is a plaine and open confession made by al estates in Parleament that Christe hath not onely established Everie Minister ought to minister the discipline of Christ in his own cure by consent of parleament discipline but a certaine forme of discipline in his Church and that the Pastor to whom the care and charge is committed to teach the people ought to minister the same discipline For it had bene a verie absurd parte for the Parleament to appoint the Bishop to receaue a promise from the Minister to minister the discipline of Christ if Christ had not instituted a Discipline or that the same discipline which he instituted had not in their iudgements belonged vnto the Minister And therefore this verie letter of the booke cōvinceth the whole answere made vnto the abstract touching this point to be verie erroneous frivolous and impertinent to the point in question For whereas in the abstract it is alleaged that the Bishop by vertue of The Minister by promise bindeth himselfe to Minister the discipline of Christ the order and forme appointed by acte of Parleament bindeth the Minister aswell to minister the discipline of Christ within his cure as the doctrine and Sacramentes of Christ as the Lorde hath commaunded c. herevnto first he answereth that these clauses do not dispositively Pag. 55. Pag. 60. ordaine any thing for discipline as though the lawe ment by authoritie hereof to establish that the order in these thinges by the Realme receaved should be holden as agreeablie to the word of God but must be taken enunciatively to declare and affirme that following the order by law established they should doe agreeable to Gods will But alas what repugnancie is there heard for howe Regugnance in the aunswere to the abstract can the law declare and affirme that the Ministers following the order by lawe established shall doe agreeablie to Gods will if the order in these thinges by the Realm receaved should not by the meaning of the law bee holden as agreeable to the word of God What doth the law meane that a man can doe agreeably to Gods will in any thing whiche is not agreeable to his word or if the law haue established an order in the discipline which is not agreeable to Godes worde shall the Ministers do agreeably to Gods will if they follow the Lawe For the meaning of the law is plaine viz. that the Minister by vertue of his promise made to the Bishop shall be no further bound to minister any Doctrine Sacramentes or Discipline receaved by the Realme vnlesse the Realme haue receaved the same according to the cōmandment of God For the Parleamēt having a religious consideration that the Minister of Christ must not haue so much respect what the lawe of the Realme as what the law of God commādeth carefully provided for his indemnitie in this behalfe Besides what a friuolous comment hath hee made vpon the wordes of the A frivolous comment vppon the wordes of the boo●e of ordeining Priestes c. booke when he sayth that these wordes of the Bishopp doe not dispositiuely ordeyne any thing for discipline When as the question is not whether the Bb. words but whether the lawe and booke dispose any thing for discipline For the Bishop being but a servāt to the booke and to the lawe and one vnto whose fidelitie the execution of the law booke is committed though he doe not by his wordes dispose any thing of Discipline yet by his demaunde hee sheweth vnto the Minister that the office of the Ministration of discipline within his cure charge is committed vnto him that by his ordination his person is fully inabled aswell to minister the Discipline as to preach the doctrine of Christ And herevpon also falleth to the ground his other answere as wholie impertinent to the point in questiō For where he saith that the Lawe meant not by authoritie hereof to establish that the order of these things by the Realme receaved should be holden as agreeable to the worde of God this I saye seemeth wholie to bee impertinent to the purpose of the abstract For there is no such thing insinuated The answer to the abstract wholie impertinent to the point in question to be intended by the statute onely the scope of the Authours drift in that place seemeth to be this viz. That everie Minister by vertue of his promise enioyned by act of Parleament to be made by him and by the office of ministerie taken vpon him at the time of his ordination hath bound him selfe to minister the doctrine sacramentes and discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commaunded And what then if the Lawe The not disposing in perticularitie all rites ceremonies of discipline doeth not hinder the exercise of discipline by the Minister haue not

before such time as he did heare or see the Parish Clerke to trudge with the Church-dore keyes to let in the Sextin to ring the bell for the saide Parson or Vicars induction and reall possession And if the people of every Parish had their consents in the choyse and approbation of their Minister were it possible to haue lesse acquaintāce with him then this For we avow that the people ought not to giue their consents vnto any Pastour before they haue seene him before they haue heard him devide the worde before they haue procured a good testimonie of his gifts from those who by the worde haue interest to approove him and lastly before they haue gotten sufficient notice of his condition estate conversation birth education and life Wherefore these thinges being carefully and diligently searched into not by one but by many not for a fee but of duty not for reward but for conscience not for one day but for many dayes I trust it will not still bee holden for an oracle that the people should haue as litle acquaintance with their Ministers as now they haue As for the seconde point that farre No partiall suits cā follow the election of Ministers by the people greater occasions of partiall suits should follow this manner of common electiō whereof we speake then nowe there is this is also I say not true nay that farre l●sse occasion of partiall suites should follow then now there is this I saye is true For by this meanes all partiall suites now happening may eyther bee extinguished or with lesse charges pursued then now they be For there can bee no suites much lesse can there bee anie partiall suites when neither Plaintif nor defendant may be foūd where also there can lie no writ nor any action be commenced For who be the parties betweene whom these partiall suites should arise Be there many Ministers who for one place and at one time are found meete for the same And do they sue and contende one against another which of them should possesse the place or should these so many partiall suites consist betweene the inhabitants of one Parish one part leaning to one side and another part cleaving to the other side Touching the Ministers we affirme that none may or ought to sue or sollicit any mans voyce directly or indirectly much lesse to labour for a place of Ministerie And therefore we desire by an irrevocable law according to the manner of the Medes and Persians to haue it enacted That as well every procurer and labourer for a voyce as also every suitor and sollicitor for a place of Ministerie bee adiudged ipso facto incapable for ever of the same place For the second touching partiall suits to arise betwene the No occasion of partiall suits about election betweene parishioners Parishioners about the election of their Pastour these suits for ought I yet conceaue wherein I graunt I may erre and conceave too litle may easelier bee dispatched then bee once begunne Parishioners ordinarily in the Countrie sue not ne molest one the other for pleasure but for profit they are not so lavish of their purses nor so carelesse of their thrifts as to iangle in vaine when before hand they know there is no hope of gayne And in deed what advantage or what pleasure should Ancientes divided against Ancientes and chief men distracted against chief men in a Parish about the election of a Minister reape by such a division and distraction Besides by our daylie experience wee haue learned that verie rarely or not at all about elections made by the people of any officers eyther in the Countrie or in Cities and Townes anie variance or partiall suites haue bene stirred betweene the Electors For though some times perhappes they varie in their iudgementes one from another yet rest they more wise provident then to empaire their owne estate to advance an other mans reputation And if in former times there hath no occasiō of partial suits touching publike Officers in the common weale No partiall suites can be among parishioners when one only is propounded to bee chosen by them fallen out betwene the people when out of a multitude they haue chosen one much lesse can there be any occasion of partiall suits if onlie there remaine but one to be chosen to be a Church-Officer For if all the ancients agree to chuse that one then is all the suite about him ended and if the greater part disagree yet this their disagreement can bee no occasion to breed and nourish suite and contention And why first because no other cause by the greater part ought to bee alleaged to withdraw their consent but only such a cause as the law should precisely allowe in the same case to be a iust cause Secondly because this iust cause before the day of election ought to be made known vnto the Magistrate and by him to bee approved so that if the greater parte vpon the day of election shall dissent not having before hande alleaged and provided a iust cause of their dislike the voyces of the lesser part as being supposed the better part shall prevaile confirme and make good the election Oh! heere is much saide my Lordes spoken of a choise election to be made by the Ministers people by proofes to be made before the Magistrate but here is not any one word spoken or any mention made of the Patrone of the Bishop or of the Archdeacon of presentation institution or induction And what an alteration and innovation would that bee and what a dangerous attempt were it to alter lawes setled and that Patrones should be curbed and that Bishops and Archdeacons should not medle in these businesses any more Well then to wipe away as much as in me lyeth this cavillous reproch obloquie from the servants of God who are chalenged to bee newfangled giddie-headed fanaticall spirites strange innovators and desirers of perilous alterations to wipe away I say this slaunder If it may please the King with his The forme of Church policie now in practise by the Bishops the platforme of Church policie desired to bee planted by Pastours compared together Princely wisdome to conferre the forme of pollicie now in vse and practise touching ordinations presentations institutions and inductions by Bb. Patrones Archdeacons with the maner of that platforme of Discipline cōcerning the substance of these things which is propounded And if the Propounders preferre but the commaundement of God before the traditions of men but the Kings Crowne before the Bishops Myters but a feast of fat things yea of fatt things full of marrow before leane spits and emptie platters but a feast of wines yea of wines fined and purified before sower vntoothsome whey I hope his Maiestie will gratiouslie vouchsafe so to protect the propoūders being his faithfull loving and obedient subiectes as that hereafter they shall not be charged with any moe so vniust and scandalous imputations

the Kings prerogative Royall be duely advanced Which things if it might please them rightly to consider then let them humblie and seriouslie beseech our Sovereine Lord the King and States in Parleament to giue their consentes to such a law as the proiect ensuing may warrant thē the same not to be dangerous to the overthrowe of their civill studies The Proiect of an Act for the explanation and amplifying of one branch of a statute made in the first yeere of the raigne of Queene Elizabeth entituled An Act restoringe to the Crowne the ancient iurisdiction over the state Ecclesiasticall and also for the declaring and reviving of a statute made in the first yere of King Edward the sixt entituled An Act what seales and stiles Bishops and other spiritual persons exercising iurisdiction ecclesiasticall shall vse FOr asmuch as by one braunch of an Act made in the first yeere of our late Soveraigne Ladie of blessed memorie Queene Elizabeth entituled an Act restoring to the Crowne the auncient iurisdiction over the state Ecclesiastical Spirituall and abolishing all forraigne power repugnant to the same it was established and enacted That such iurisdictions priviledges superiorities and preheminences spiritual and ecclesiasticall as by anie spirituall or ecclesiasticall power or authoritie hath heeretofore bin or may lawfully be exercised or vsed for the visitation of the Ecclesiasticall state and persons and for reformation order correction of the same and of all maner errors heresies schismes abuses offences contempts and enormities should for euer by authoritie of that present Parleament be vnited and annexed to the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme by meanes whereof it may now be made a questiō whether any Archbishops or other Ecclesiasticall persons having since that time vsed or exercised any such spirituall or ecclesiasticall iurisdiction in their owne right or names might lawfully haue done or hereafter may lawfully doe the same without speciall warrant and authoritie derived immediatly frō your Highnes by and vnder your H. letters patents And whereas also by a statute made in the first yeare of Kinge Edward the sixt entituled an act what seales and stile Bishops or other spirituall persons shall vse it was ordained that all and singular Archbishops and Bishops others exercising ecclesiastical iurisdictiō should in their processe vse the Kings name and stile and not their owne and also that their Seales should bee graved with the Kings armes And forasmuch also as it must bee highly derogatorie to the Imperiall Crowne of this your Highnesse Realme that any cause whatsoever ecclesiasticall or temporall within these your H. Dominions should be heard or adiudged without warrant or commission from your Highnes your heyres successors or not in the name stile and dignitie of your Highnes your heyres and successors or that anie seales should be annexed to anie promesse but onelie your Kinglie seale and armes May it therefore please the King at the humble supplication of his Commons to haue it enacted That the aforesaid branch of the aforesaid Act made in the first yeere of Queene Elizabeth her raigne everie part thereof may still remayne for ever be in force And to the end the true intent and meaning of the said statute made in the first yeere of King Edward the sixt may be declared and revived that likewise by the authoritie aforesaid it may be ordayned and enacted that all and singular Ecclesiastical Courts and Consistories belonging to any Archb. Bb. Suffraganes Colege Deane and Chapiter Prebendarie or to any Ecclesiasticall person or persons whatsoever and which haue heretofore bin commonly called reputed taken or knowne to bee Courts or Consistories for causes of instance or wherein any suite complaint or action betwene partie and partie for any matter or cause wherin iudgment of law civil or canon hath bin or is required shall and may for ever hereafter be reputed taken and adiudged to be Courts and iudgmentseats meerely civill secular and temporall and not hence foorth Ecclesiasticall or spirituall and as of right belonging and apperteyning to the Royall Crowne and dignitie of our Soveraigne Lorde Kinge Iames that nowe is his heyres and successors for ever And that all causes of instance and controversies betwene partie partie at this day determinable in any of the said Courts heretofore taken and reputed ecclesiasticall shall for ever hereafter bee taken reputed and adiudged to be causes meerely civill secular and temporall as in trueth they ought to be and of right are belonging and appertayning to the iurisdiction of the Imperiall Crowne of this Realme And further that your H. liege people may be the better kept in awe by some authorised to be your H. Officers Ministers to execute iustice in your Highnes name and vnder your H. stile and title of King of England Scotlād Frāce and Ireland defendor of the faith c. in the said Courtes and Constories and in the said causes and controversies Bee it therefore enacted by the authoritie aforesaid That all the right title and interest of in and to the said Courts and Consistories and in and to the causes controversies aforesaide by any power iurisdiction or authoritie heretofore reputed Ecclesiasticall but by this Act adiudged civill secular and temporall shall for ever hereafter actually and reallie be invested and appropried in and to the Royall person of our Soveraigne Lord the King that now is his heyres successors Kinges and Queenes of this Realme And that it shall and may bee lawfull to and for our saide Soveraigne Lord and King his heyres and successors in all and everie Shire and Shires Diocesse and Diocesses within his H. Dominions and Countries by his and their letters patents vnder the great Seale of England from tyme to tyme and at all tymes to nominat and appoint one or moe able and sufficient Doctor or Doctors learned in the civill law to be his and their civil secular and temporal Officer and Officers Minister and Ministers of Iustice in the same civill secular and temporall Courts Consistories which in and ouer his and their royall name stile and dignitie shall as Iudge and Iudges doe perform execute all and every such act and acts thing and things whatsoeuer in and about the execution of iustice and equitie in those Courts according to the course and order of the civill lawe or the Ecclesiasticall canons and constitutions of the Realme as heretofore hath bin vsed and accustomed to bee done by for or in the name of any Archbb. Bb College Cathedral Church Deane Archdeacon Prebendary or any other Ecclesiasticall person or persons whatsoeuer And that all and every such civill secular and temporall Officer and Officers Minister and Ministers Iudge Iudges in his and their processe shall vse one manner of Seale only and none other hauing graued decently therein your Kingly armes with certaine characters for the knowledge of the Diocesse or Shire And further bee it enacted c That it shall and may be lawfull by

the backwardnes of the people in the trueth of religion how backward so ever they be how soever the same backwardnes may happen cā be no good plea in barre to take from the people of God their right interest and freedome from the allowance and approbation of their Pastour As for that vaine and ridiculous gibe whether Answere to the abstract all hand over head men boyes woemen and girles yong and old c. should giue their consentes to this fonde gibe I aunswere that there is no such vanitie of vanities intended For when we saye that the people of every Parish ought to chuse and elect their Pastour wee meane not that the electiō should soly be committed to the multitude but we intende onely that the chief Fathers Ancientes and Governours of the Parishe in the name of the whole should approove the choyse made by the holy Ministerie wherein we follow the example of the auncient people of God whose affayres were committed to the chief Fathers sitting in the gate Where the Admonitour hath pretended Pag. 80. that it is impossible to bee brought to passe which as he saith is most of all pretended for the common maner of election that the people may know their The people may know a man to be a fit minister though hee bee not brought vp among them Minister and thereby haue the better liking of him vnlesse every Parish shall haue within it selfe a Schoole or College where those should be brought vp that shal be preferred to the ministerie amongst them This I say is an other vanitie of vanities a vexation of spirit without all meane or measure yea it is an asseveration void of all sence and sobernes For is it not possible for a Lorde Bishop to know the equities condition and behaviour of a mā fit to be reteined for his Secretarie or Gentleman-vsher vnlesse the same party be brought vp in some Schoole or College within his owne house Or is it impossible for his Lordship to knowe the education life learning gifts of vtterance and aptnesse to teach of a man so to haue the better liking of him to make him a Minister vnlesse within his Parish there be a Schoole or Colledge wherin such as are to be preferred to the ministerie bee brought vp If then without having any Schoole or Colledge within his owne house or within his owne Parish for the bringing vp of such as are received by a Lord Bishop either to his private service or to the publique ministerie his Lordship may know so haue the better liking of them whom he would preferre How then followeth it to be impossible that the people should know their Minister and so haue the better liking of him vnlesse every Parish had in it self a Schoole or College where those should be brought vp that should bee preferred to the Ministery amōgst them What is one toung of one man alone able to enquire and learne the maners of many men to be ordeined and placed Ministers in many places and are many tongues of many men not able to enquire and learne the cōversation of one man to be placed in one place or haue the eyes eares of one man sight quick inough and hearing good inough to heare to see into the educatiō life of all the Ministers within all the parishes of one whole diocesse are all the eares and eyes of many men deaf and dimme to heare and to 〈◊〉 into the life and education of one Minister in one Parish If the Parish of Maries in Cambrige or the Parish of All-hollowes in Oxford were destitute of an able and preaching Minister might not the people of the first know Maister Doctor Overall haue the better liking of him and might not the people of the second know Maister Doctor Reynolds and haue the better liking of him to be their Pastor vnlesse Corpus Christi College in Oxford stood in All-hollowes Parish or Katherin Herle in Cambrige stand in Maries Parish or did the Deane and Chapiter the Clerkes and people of Lincolne and Wincester therefore know H. C. and thereby had they the better liking of him to choose him first Bishop of Lincolne and secondly Bishop of Wincester because hee was brought vp in some Schoole or College in any of the Parishes of Lincolne and Wincester I trow him selfe if he were now liuing would not so affirme and what then should eale the Gentlemen of the Temple or the people of the Parish of Bow in London that they may not know thereby haue the better liking of M. Travers M. Barber to be their Ministers albeit neither of the twaine were brought vp in any Schoole or College in or about the Temple or Parish of Bowe For who knoweth not that there be meanes inough inough to know a mā within and without and to haue a good opinion liking of him though the same man be not brought vp in any Schoole or College amongst them Wherefore his argument of cannot possibly bee brought to passe may passe and repasse as the only streame of an humorous passion Neither may the people in this The people would not doe as the Ordinaries vse to doe first choose Ministers thē set them to schole case doe as the Ordinaries vse to doe For the Ordinaries first ordeyne Ministers secondlie they set them to schole and giue them their tasques that by their Archdeacons they may know how they profit and lastlie they haue the better liking of them because they be brāded with their owne stampe But the people I say may not ne yet would they thus vngainly sett the cart before the horse But they would vse all good and circumspect care and diligence firste to know them secondly vpon iust and equal cause to like them and lastly vpon their liking to allow and approve them For how should a man allow any thing before he like it or how should hee like it before he know it or how should hee know it before he had seene heard or enquired after it And heerevpon also his two asseveratiōs next ensuing fall to Pag. ●0 If the people were admitted to the election of their Minister they should bee better acquainted with him then now they be the ground For albeit he affirme that if this maner of election were admitted the people neverthelesse should haue as litle acquaintāce with their Ministers as now they haue albeit I say he thus thought yet neverthelesse his ipse opinatus sum I am of opinion is no ipse dixit vnto me No I averre and holde the contrarie to be true and therfore his opinion in this case to be erroneous For this can not be denied that there is not any one man or woman amongest fortie in any one Parish amongst fortie that can tell that ever he or shee did see or heare of the Minister appointed and sent by the ordinarie to be Pa●son or Vicar of the Parish Church vacant

childes Baptisme should be of stone of pewter of brasse or of silver whether the Minister should descend to the lower ende or the childe ascend to the vpper end of the church Whether the child should haue a great handfull or a litle sponefull of water powred vpon his head In the celebration of the Lordes Supper it is directlie commaunded that the people shal stand sit or passe whether it should be celebrated every first or second Sabboth of the moneth whether in the morning at noone or at night In the ordination of Ministers there is no iust proofe to bee made that any certeyne number of Ministers are to lay on their hands that the day of ordination should be alwayes one that the Minister should bee of such an age or that the prayers should bee of this or of that lenght and forme of wordes And therefore touching these and such like thinges of indifferencie we agree with the Admonitor and reverend Bb. that one forme of externall orders rites ceremonies is not of necessitie to be in every Church because there is no such order witnessed by the holy Scriptures to bee of necessitie But touching the ioynt severall functions of Bishops Pastours and Elders that they or any of them should in any age or state of the church of Christ bee wanting or that such offices as by warrant of the Scripture are coupled together should be severed or that any other persons should be appointed to execute any functions in the Church then such persons only as for their functiōs haue warrant from the holy Scriptures wee can not in any sorte therevnto agree And why forsooth because all both offices and officers in the Church must only and alonely be derived from our Saviour Christ as from the only fountaine and bestower of all officers offices in the house of God And therefore albeit we should graunt as the Admonitor hath saide that the outward order vsed in the primitiue Church touching rites ceremonies by Bishops Pastors and Elders is neither necessarie nor so convenient as it may be otherwise in the time of peace vnder a Christian Magistrate yet we may not herevpō imply as his negatiue implieth viz. that Bishops Pastors Elders or any of them are neither necessary nor so convenient officers or governours as other officers of mans invention might be For which our opinion by the helpe of God wee shall assay as before hath bene mencioned in an other place to lay down out of the worde of God some iust proofes according to the Admonitors request that there ought to be in all ages and states of the Church this outwarde order forme of goverment viz. that Bishoppes Pastours and Elders ought evermore to bee spirituall governours and that evermore they and none other ought to vse that essentiall kind of spirituall goverment and none other which was practised by the Bishoppes Pastours and Elders in the Apostolicall and primitiue Church Allwayes leaving the outward rites and ceremonies of their spirituall kind of goverment to be indifferent as erst hath bene said FINIS Speaches vsed in the Parleament by Sir Francis Knolles and after written to my L. Treasurer Sir William Cecill TO the end I may enform your Lord shippe of my dealing in this Parleament-time against the vndue claimed superioritie of the Bishoppes ouer their inferior brethren Thus it was Because I was in the Parleament time in the 25. yere of King HENRY the eight In which time First all the Clergie aswell Bishops as others made an hūblie submission to King HENRIE the 8. acknowledging his Supremacie and detesting the vsurpation of the Bb. of Romes authoritie Vpō which submission of the Clergie the King gaue vnto the said Bb. the same ample rule that before they had vnder the Pope ouer their inferior brethrē saving that the same rule was abridged by statute by this parenthesis following that is to say without offending the prerogatiue Royal of the Crown of England the lawes customes of the Realm In the latter end of the Statute it was added that whosoeuer offendeth in any one parte of that statute their Aydors Counsellers and Abbetters they did all fall into the penaltie of the premunire And after I had recited this statute in the Parleamēt-house I declared that in King HENRIES the eight days after this There was no Bishoppe that did practise superioritie ouer their inferiour brethren And in King EDWARDES dayes the said Bb. obteyned a statute wherby they were authorised to keepe their Courts in the Kings name the which statute was repealed in Queene Maries dayes and was not revived in her Majesties time that now is wherevppon it was doubtfull to mee by what authoritie the Bishoppes doe keepe their Courts nowe in their own names because it is against the prerogatiue Royall of the Crowne of England that any should keepe a Court without sufficient warrant from the Crowne Wherevpon I was answered that the Bishopps do keepe their Courts now by prescriptions it is true that the Bb. may prescribe that King HENRY the 8. gaue them authoritie by the statute of 25. of his raigne to haue authoritie and rule ouer their inferiour brethren as ample as they had in the Popes time But this was no speciall warrant for them to keep their Courts by and that in their owne names And yet they haue none other warrāt to keep their Courts as they do now in their owne names to my knowledge And this was the cause that made them obtaine a statute in King EDWARDS dayes to keepe their Courts by in the Kings name Now it is a strange allegation that the Bishopps should claime authoritie at this present to keepe their Courtes in their owne names as they do by prescription because the statute of 25. doth restraine thē generallie from offending of the prerogatiue Royall of the Crowne of Englande and the lawes and customes of the Realm And no man may iustly keepe a Court without a speciall warrant from the Crowne of England as is aforesaid And the generall libertie given by King H. the 8. to the Bishops to rule and governe as they did in the Popes time is no sufficient warrant to the Bishops to keepe their owne Courtes in their owne names by prescriptiō as I take it And therefore the Bishops had done wisely if they had sought a warrant by statute to keepe their Courts in the Queenes name as the Bb. did in Kinge EDWARDS dayes In which time Archbishop Crammer did cause Peter Martir and Bucer to come over into this Realme to bee placed in the two Vniversities for the better instructiō of the Vniversities in the worde of God And Bb. Crammer did humblie prefer these learned men without any challenge to him selfe of any superiour rule in this behalfe over his inferiour brethren And the time hath bin that no man could carry away any graūt frō the Crown of England by general words but that he must haue speciall wordes to carrie the same by Therfore how the Bb. are warrāted to carry away the keeping of their Courts in their own names by prescriptiō it passeth my vnderstāding Moreover where as your Lordship said vnto me that the Bishopps haue forsaken their claime of superioritie over their inferiour brethrē latelie to bee by Gods ordinance and that now they doe only claime superioritie from her Majesties supreme goverment If this be true then is it requisite necessarie that my L. of Canterburie that now is do recant and retract his saying in his booke of the great volume against Cartwright where he saith in plaine wordes by the name of Doctour Whitgift that the superioritie of Bb. is Gods owne institution Which saying doth impugne her Majesties supreme govermēt directlie therfore it is to be retracted plainly and truly For Christ plainly truly cōfesseth Ioh. 18. 36. That his Kingdom was not of this world And therfore he gaue no worldly rule or proheminence to his Apostles but the heavenly rule which was to preach the Gospel saying Ite predicate in omnem mundū quicūque crediderit baptizatus fuerit salvus erit qui non crediderit condemnabitur Goe preach in all the world who soever shall beleeue be Baptized shal be saved but he that will not beleeue shal be condemned Mark 16. 15. But the Bishops do cry out saying that Cartwright his fellows would haue no goverment c. So belike the Bb. care for no govermēt but for wordly forcible goverment over their brethren the which Christ never gaue to his Disciples nor Apostles but made them subiect to the rule of Princes who ought not to be resisted saving that they might aunswer vnto Princes that they must rather obey God then men Acts. 5. 29. and yet in no wise to resist the Prince but to take vp the crosse and follow Christ FINIS