Plessis had omitted in his allegation Which iudgments being read and considered yt was wonderfull to behould the great diuersity of affections which they styrred vp to witt of comfort and alacrity in the Catholiks and of confusion greife in the Hugonotts there present who being in number aboue 200. considered that these sentences had passed by the consents aswell of their owne iudges as of the other that there was no way left of tergiuersation And further that Monsieur Plessis being one of the cheefest men simply of their Religion in France and most accoumpted of for his learninge this his disgrace was the disgrace of all their Religion and his error inexcusable in respect of his former bragges and Protestations and of the willfull falshood now found in him Wherfore diuers of them and those also of the principall began soone after by assistance of Gods holy grace to open their harts to another cogitation for their conuersion as a little after yow shall heare The Kings Maiestie also was exceedingly moued in mynd to see what had passed as may appeare by his affectious speaches and letter wrytten to Monsieur Espernon that very night after his departure from the conference which letters we haue recyted before and the causes of his motion we shall touch a little afterward when we haue sett downe what ensued immediatly vpon this first dayes conference which was a great reason also to mooue his Maiesty the more as presently yow shall see Wherfore we shall relate the same in the very words of the printed Acts which are these that follow The next morrow which was friday the fifth of May at 6. of the Clocke in the morning came a gentleman to the Bishop of Eureux telling him that Monsieur Plessis had byn very euill that night that he prayed the Bishop to be content to haue the conference differred for that morninge but the Bishop asked him for how longe this delay should be the gentleman answered vntill that Mōsieur Plessis should be in state of health to prosecute the same Soone after this there came to the Kings chamber Monsieur de la Riuiere cheefe phisitian to his Maiestie tellinge him that the conference was like to be broken vp by reason of the L. Plessis indisposition whome he said that he had left very sicke with violent vomitts and tremblings of all the parts of his body which he King hearinge comaunded him presently to go and tell the same to the L. Chancelour to the end that he and the deputyes should not take their iorney in vaine that day to the pallace which being told vnto them and they imagininge that perhaps Monsieur Plessis his sicknesse might endure longe sent that very night late to his Maiestie to know his iudgment pleasure whether they should remayne still in Fountayne-bleau or returne to Paris The King that he might giue them more certayne answere willed the Chancelour at ten of the clocke at night to go and see Plessis to know from his owne mouth what he would do concerning the prosecution of this conference The Chancelour hauing with him at that tyme the L. President Fresnes Canay cheefe deputy for the Protestant party in the said conference desyred him to go to him which he did and brought answere that Plessis was not in state to go forward now but he would aduise vpon it in Paris which answere being related to the Chancelour by the President and from the Chancelour to the King his Maiestie gaue licence to the iudges deputyes to depart to Paris which they did the next morninge being the sixt of May except only the President Fresnes who remained at Fontayn-bleau with the King But the next day at noone about six houres after the departure of the said deputyes the President Fresnes hauing byn to visitt Monsieur Plessis againe came and aduertised the Chancelour that he was much better in health that for his part the conference might beginne againe which the Chancelour hearinge sent presently for the B. of Eureux in presence of the said president told him the newes who was gladd therof and offered himselfe presently said moreouer that as yet his bookes were not sent away Which the Chancelour hearing called for the Secretary Monsieur Mercier chosen for the part of Plessis and willed him presently to go and signifie vnto him that he had vnderstood that he was better in health contēt to returne to the conference which if it were so the B. was also ready his bookes not yet sent away though some of the deputyes were departed yet the president Fresues their chiefe deputy remained others might be nominated at or vpon the very place it selfe But Monsieur Plessis answered that he was not maister of his owne sicknes which grew more and more vpon him and that he was goinge to Paris from whence he would not depart without seing the L. Chancelour to informe him of his affayres so conforme vnto this he departed the 8. of May being Monday and the Chancelour hauinge receaued his answere aduertised the K. therof and so they went all to Paris and his Maiestie arryued there vpon the 12. of May. And about some 4. or 5. dayes after Monsieur Plessis departed to his gouerment of Saumur without takinge his leaue of his Maiestie or seing the L. Chancelour as he had promised and without sending any word at all to the B. of Eureux about the conference or further triall Thus farre goeth the narration of the printed Acts published by authority of the King deputyes that were present wherby we see the end of this action and how the L. Plessis behaued himselfe therin But about 2. monethes after came forth the aforesaid little discourse with out name of author bearinge the title of true discourse of the conference at Fontayn-bleau full of elusions disguisments and inuectiues saith the B. of Eureux sett forth by Plessis himselfe though dissemblinge his name to the end he might enioye the fable vnder this maske and ly with out blushing obtruding to his Reader what he thought best For so are the words of the said Bishopp in the refutation of this michinge discourse which conteyned as before hath byn shewed three principall points the one in peruerting the story of the Acts themselues the second in diuising new shifts and euasions which occurred not vnto him while he was in the triall the third in recriminations or obiectinge other mens falsityes in like manner Which kind of proceedinge did more yet discreditt Plessis with the wiser sort of men then his former ouerthrow in the field for that this did shew indeed that to be true which Tertullian saith that heretiks may more easily be ouercome then persuaded and that Plessis had an obstinate mynd to go forward notwithstandinge whatsoeuer was should or might be proued against him but yet diuers other of the more learned and grauer sort of his owne
follow be extant in the French tongue and consequently like also to be in England before this day yet for that euery man vnderstandeth not that language nor is it so probable that many men will take the paynes to translate diuulge the same to such as may haue neede or desire to reade it I iudged the labour not vnprofitable to performe the same from hence But besides there is another reason of more moment and more peculiar to this place to witt that albeit the former printed chalenges might come to Englishmens hands by other meanes yet the combat it selfe with the true issue therof togeather with the manner of the triall and particulars occurred therin which haue byn wrytten hither by most authenticall partyes as vnto the place where accompt of such affayres concerninge Religion is wont to be giuen could not or would not perhapps so fully and sincerely be related in England as the truth of the whole action requireth the reason wherof each man will easily coÌ„sider These then being the causes that moued me to take this little paine founded as yow see in the zeale of truth and fidelity I haue thought good to deliuer faithfully vnto you such letters as haue come to my hands about this affayre though not all For that diuers letters wrytten out of France by diuers other partyes reportinge the selfe same thing I thought not needful for me to print nor to multiply relations without necessity but to content my selfe only for breuityes sake with the letter of the K. Maiestie himselfe and with one other of the Bishop that was an actor in the cause wrytten to the Kings Embassadour in this place and to some other Cardinalls besides by them to be exhibited vnto his Holynes to whome the Bishopp well knew that the selfe same thing would be wrytten by others also lesâ—e interessed in the matter then himselfe and more then this that his said letters and reporte would be returned to France againe where all aduaÌ„tage would be taken against him by the aduersary yf in any one point he should exceed the bare truth in his narration which consideration may assure vs that he would haue great care to relate all points both truly and modestly as in his letter that ensueth may be seene that he doth and the same may be gathered also plainely by the K. letter it selfe to the Duke of Espernon which after we shall relate But yet besides these two letters there was another wrytten two dayes after the said Bishops letter by the Popes Nuntio in Paris vnto Cardinall Aldobrandino and by him to be deliuered to his holynes wherin is related verified though in very few words the very same narration which the Bishop wryteth as by the extract therof heerafter sett downe appeareth And this now were sufficient for a preface only to this matter were yt not that I haue thought expedient also to touch breifely two other points First what these two persons are which had the combat and then the briefe summe of that which passed betwene them therein For first the L. Plessis Morney his name and person is well knowne in England for that aboue 20. yeares past I saw my selfe a booke of his intituled Of the Church and notes therof translated into English and much esteemed by protestants of that time for that he wryteth more cunningly and couertly and is more plausible in shew both of scriptures Fathers then commonly other wryters of his Religion then were And for that he is a noble man borne and of the laity and not vnlearned in diuers languages and in great creditt for many yeares with this King of France whose Embassadour he was in England whilst he was yet a protestant and his Maiestie King only of Nauarre and now since his comminge to the kingdome of France much trusted also and vsed by him in his ciuill affayres and in gouernment of the towne and country of Saumur For these causes I say and for that he hath wrytten many bookes he is accompted euery where for one of the cheeife champions and head pillars of Protestant Religion in France wherby this his disgrace so notoriously receaued in that thinge wherin he made publike profession to be exact to witt in true and playne dealinge must needs open the eyes of such as are discreet and desirous in deed to follow truth and decline from falshood and so it did vs after yow see The B. of Eureux on the other side named Monsieur Person is a person no lesse eminent markable both for that his parents being great Protestants himselfe also for many yeares he being a man also of great wyet extraordinary memory and by reason of his state of life more occupied in studyes as is probable then the other comminge afterward by readinge and by Gods especiall grace to be a Catholike he became so zealous earnest and ardent therin as none do more when they are full informed that his greatest indeauours since his conuersion haue byn to conuert also others and to impart that light which God hath bestowed vpon him to as many as possibly he can In which respect the K. Maiestie of France hauinge loued him much and esteemed also before when he was a Protestant and no lesse synce that he hath byn a zealous Catholike and knowinge him to be both learned faithfull sincere made choyce of him for his especially Embassadour in Rome in the yeare 1595. to treat his great affayre for his reconciliation to the Catholike Church which hath come to that happy issue which â—ll the world seeth both for the good of his â—arson people and crowne And thus much of these 2. persons who being both of them so gratefull and well liked of the King as I haue shewed his Maiesties indifferency in iudgmeÌ„t also betwene them both the truth of the cause only excepted must needs be voyd of all suspition and consequently his sentence afterward prononced on the one side as by his letter appeareth must in reason be thought to haue proceeded of the manifest difference of the said cause and force of truth it selfe which he discouered vpon that triall Now then to speake a word or two of the action as it passed you must vnderstand that about Christmasse last there came forth a booke in Paris of the aforsaid Monsieur Plessis against the Masse which booke making shew as the fashion is of great aboundance and ostentation of Fathers Councells Doctors and storyes for his purpose great admiration seemed to be conceaued therof and the Protestants euery where began to triumph of so famous a worke published in their behalfe Whervpon diuers Catholike learned men tooke occasion presently to examine the said booke finding many most egregious deceyts shiftes and falsifications therin diuers bookes were wrytten against it one in particular by a French Iesuite discouering at least a thousand falshoods of his part All the preachers of Paris in like manner
booke against the Masse leafe by leafe and lyne by lyne as he requireth Which demaund of his yf we should yeld thervnto would vnder a faire protext of triall make his offer equiualent to a flatt refusall For besides that there will hardly be found out any deputyes of such patience to try the matter but they wil be wearied before they haue examined in this manner the tenth part of this his worke There will be found also in euery leafe some allegations not so clearly false as the rest the which yf we should passe ouer then would he take them as admitted by vs for true and so take wittnesse therof to the preiudice of the Catholike Church And if we stay and striue about them he would then of purpose settle the whole disputation vpon the first of those which he should thinke might longest be continued to hinder therby the examininge of the rest For these causes then as also for that yt appertayneth notto him who is accused of falsifications to choose out the points vpon the which he is to be examined but to them rather which do accuse him to propose the articles which they are to obiect against him For these causes I say see heere good reader the protestation I make before God man I protest that I do bynd my selfe to shew him in any place furnished of bookes and in such company of capable men as it may please the K. Maiestie to ordayne yea in the presence of his Maiestie yf it may please the same to take contentment to be present at some part therof fiue hundred enormous and open falsifications without any amplification or exaggeration and all these conteyned in his only late booke against the Masse The which fiue hundred falsifications I will choose our amongst a farre greater number to th' end I may auoid tediousnesse and I will choose them all so playne and manifest as there shall be no need of any further disputation to proue conuince them then the only openinge of the bookes which himselfe doth alleage And more ouer I say that yf after this our conference ended he will take vpon him for his part to choose amongst all the citations of his booke or of his bookes becauseâ— he speaketh in generall any such authorityes as he thinketh most sure and to make most for his aduantage most against vs I do bynd my selfe for conclusion of all to refute the whole choice that he shall haue made therof to shew that neyther in his said booke against the Masse nor in his Treatise of the Church nor in his Common welth of Traditions is there to be found so much as any one place among them all which is not eyther falsely cyted or impertinent to the matter or vnprofitably alleaged And this will I shew by the very texts of Greeke and Latyn copies of the authors themselues printed at Geneua Basill Heydelberge other townes of Protestants All which notwithstandinge I desyre should be vnderstood as not spoken against the honour in particular of the L. Plessis whome in all other things which concerne not the interest of Religion I esteeme accordinge to his qualityes and meritts Neyther do I heerby pretend to blame him for any other thing then that he hath byn ouer credulous in beleeuing the false relations collections of others that haue endeauoured to abuse the industry authority of his pen. And wheras he demaundeth instantly that I should ioine with him to present a supplication vnto the K. Maiestie for triall aforesaid I declare againe by this my wrytinge that I do wholy agree thervnto and ioyne with him therin do make accompt for this present tyme to haue subscribed thervnto yea yf need were with my owne proper bloud conceauing infinite gladnes that aâ—ter so many admirable victoryes which his Maiestie hath gotten both of his enemyes by his valour and of himselfe by his clemency the good Angell of France doth now againe open to his Maiestie the way to obtayne another victory no lesse glorious then the former wherby he may as another Constantine after peace and tranquillity restored to his temporall estate restore also the like peace and tranquiâ—lity to the state of God which is his holy Church For that this disputation shall not be like to the others of former tymes wherin were examined matters of doctrine the truth therof as also of the true interpretations of holy scriptures and other such like In examination wherof the shifts and sleights of the disputers and other disguisinge of the matters might make the truth vncertayne to the hearers But heere all questions in this disputation shall only be questions of fact whether places be truly alleaged or no For triall wherof yt shall only be needfull to bringe eyes for iudges to behould whether the citations which we do accuse of falshood be so indeed in the authors as Plessis hath alleaged in his booke And yet of the ouerthrow of these so many falsifications gathered togeather ensueth the ouerthrow and dishonour of the cause which is defended by such weapons And consequently we are much bound to the holy prouidence of almighty God that he hath permitted in this last assault of heretikes the ministers of France to haue placed all the heads of their false impostures and deceytfull dealings vpon one body to the end they may be all cutt of at one blow And that the simple people by them abused seing discouered the false vnfaithfull dealings of those vpon whose fidelity they grouÌ„ded their faith may forsake them heerafter and returne to that faith which is the pillar and sure ground of all truth Wherfore to the end that this happy successe may be brought to effect without delay not only I do subscribe most willingly togeather with the L. of Plessis to present his request to his Maiestie but also do further promise him in the execution therof to vse all sweetnes modesty louing proceeding towards his person for that I esteeme yt a thinge most conformable to reason that combatts which proceed of charity should be tried with charity that as in old tyme in the matrimoniall sacrificos that were ordained for peace and concord betwixt man and wife the gaules of beasts offered vp were taken out euen so in the disputations which are vndertaken for the peace and vnion of the spouse of God which is his Church the gaule and bitternes of hatred and euill will be taken away Made and subscribed by me in the Castle of Condie being the house of the B. of Eureux the 25. of March in the yeare one thousand six hundred By me Iames. B. of Eureux This is the answere and acceptance of the Bishopp full of considence witt and medesty as to the reader must needs appeare now lett vs see the reply of Plessis Mornay no lesse captious and subtile them this is plaine simple and sincere THE REPLY OF THE L. PLESSIS TO
be answered albeit yf he do but sett downe the whole places themselues as they ly in the Fathers books whence they are cut they will need no answere but will answere themselues and confute the alleager and shew the shamlesse dealinge eyther of Peter martyr or Iohn Fox or of both in cytinge them The like deceytfull dealinge was vsed by Nicolas Ridley B. then of Rochester and after of London the next moneth following in the Cambridge disputation about the same controuersy of the reall presence wherof he being president Martyn Bucer refusinge vtterly to deale in that controuersie he affirmed to the whole vniuersity that he had fiue sure grounds for the opinion of Zuinglius wherof the first was to vse his words the authority Maiestie and verity of holy scriptures the second the most certayne testimonyes of the ancient Catholike Fathers c. Wheras the truth is that both these foundations are most euidently against him as much the one as the other which Bucer well kâ—ew therfore would not take part with him in that matter though soone after to remedy this breach he putt vp three other impertineÌ„t questions to be disputed against Catholiks but in this other article he know that Ridley lyed shamfully against his owne conscience for that all Farthers are against him most euidently so do the Magdeburgians their cheefe Protestant Chroniclers shew declare in euery age or century of their Ecclesiasticall history And yt shal be sufficient for the reader to cast his eye ouer the 4. Chapters only of euery century intituled of doctrine And thus much for K. Edwards dayes when Zuinglian Religion first peeped vp in our countrey After this man stepped to Paules Crosse in the beginninge of this Queenes dayes about the yeare 1559. and 1560. Maister Iohn Iewell otherwise called B. of Salisbury and he proceeded yet further in this bragg or fiction For he protested there euen with feigned teares that yf any one authority place sentence or asseueration of any one Father Doctor Councell or authenticall history within the first 600. yeares after Christ could be brought forth by any man liuinge for any one of those points of Catholike Religion which he there recyted to be in controuersie that then plainely and sincerely he vvould subscribe Against which vayne and shamlesse bragg when Doctor Harding and diuers other learned men of our side began to wryte from Louayne and to bring forth authorityes of all Fathers Doctors Councells and historyes in great aboundance the first effect of this chalenge that appeared to the world was a seuere proclamation that no such bookes wrytten in English by the Catholike party should be receaued or read in England vnder great punishments by which prouision Maister Iewell thinking himselfe meetly well deâ—enced he plyed the pulpitt often and renewed his chalenges many tymes and perceauing notwithstaÌ„ding that Doctor Hardings confutation was come into England he answered the same with a longe volume of Rhetoricall words stuffed the margents therof with the shew of infinite authors as though the whole world had byn for him and none for the other side and with this he deceaued the people then and doth to this day such I meane as haue not commodity or learninge or other meanes to examine those places and to find out the manifold lyes and falsifications therin conteyned And this was the gaine by all likely hood that Maister Iewell preteÌ„ded to his cause by that worke knowing full well that this sort of men is farre the greater which would be gayned and setled in his doctrine before the learneder sort who are but few in comparison of the other could haue tyme books and commodity to discouer refute him when they should do yt they should hardly be beleeued And in this conceate he was not deceaued yf we respect that present tyme and many yeares after as also yt is probable the L. Plessis Mornay had the like designment in stuffing vp his bookes with the like authorityes of Fathers but yf we consider the continuance of tyme wherof truth is said to be the daughter yt hath succeeded vnto him as yow haue heard and will do more and more dayly as to such shifts is wont to happen that is to say accordinge to Kinge Dauids sayinge before recorded â—pprâ—brium sempiternum dedit eis God layeth euerlastinge shame vpon them For how many learned men lightly of our nation haue taken vpon seriously to go ouer that booke of Maister Iewells to examine yt by the authors themselues with any indifferency of mynd haue for the most part byn therby conuerted to Catholike Religion though neuer so great Protestants before of which sort I haue heard relation of many but of some I can testify my selfe for that I haue heard it from their owne mouthes who of earnest Protestants were made most zealous Catholikes by that meanes principally of which number I thinke yt not inconuenient to name hâ—â—re some 2. or 3. omittinge others which for iust respects may not to be named The first of them is Syr Thomas Copley made Lord afterward in his banishment by the K. of France who often tymes hath related vnto me with much comfort of his soule how that being a zealous Protestant and very familiar to the late Earle of Licester in the beginninge of this Q. dayes when Maister Iewells booke was newly come forth he being also learned himselfe in the Latyn tongue tooke paines to examine certayne leaues therof and findinge many falshoods therin which were in excusable as they seemed to him he conferred the same with the said Earle who willed him that the next tyme Maister Iewell dyned at his table he should take occasion after dynner to propose the same which he did soone after and receauing certaine triflinge answers from Maister Iewell he waxed more hoate and vrged the matter more earnestly which Iewell perceauinge told him in effect That Papists were Papists and so they were to be dealt withall and other answere he could not gett which thinge made the good Gentleman to make a new resolution with himselfe and to take that happy course which he did to leaue his countrey and many great commodityes which he enioyed therin to enioy the liberty of conscieÌ„ce for saluation of his soule and so he both liued and died in voluntary banishment for confession of that truth which his Sauiour by occasion of Maister Iewells falshood had reueyled vnto him The second example which I remember of my owne knowledge is Maister Doctor Steuens a learned man yet aliue who being Secretary or Chaplyn to Maister Iewell for I remember not well whether and a forward man in Protestant Religion at that tyme espied certayne false allegations in his Maisters booke whilst yt was yet vnder the print in London wherof aduertisinge him by letters for that he supposed yt might be by ouersight the other commaunded notwithstandinge the print to goe forward and passed it ouer
as it was which this man seeing that had a conscience and sought the truth indeed resolued to take another way of findinge yt out and hauinge found yt in the Catholike Church where only it was to be found he resolued also to follow yt and so he did and went voluntarily into banishment for the same where yet he liueth vnto this day in France with good reputation both of learninge and godlynes The third example that I call to mynd is the worthy man before named Maister VVilliam Reynolds who being first an earnest professor and Preacher of Protestant Religion in England and much engaged amonge the Puritans in Northampton-shire as he was wont to tell he fell in the end to read ouer Maisters Iewells booke and did translate some part thereof into Latyn but before he had passed halfe ouer he found such stuffe as made him greatly mislike of the whole Religion and so he leauing his hopes commodityes in England went ouer the sea into these parts and the last yeare of Iubiley to witt 1575. he came to Rome and brought that booke with him and presented both himselfe and yt to the Tribunall of Inquisition of his owne free motion and accord where I ghesse the booke remayneth still yf yt be not burned and himselfe after absolution receaued from his former errors which he with great humility and zeale required my selfe also at that tyme spake with him in that place he returned into France and Flanders and there liued many yeares with singular edification for his rare vertue learninge and how hartily indeed he was conuerted may well appeare by his zealous wrytinge both in Latyn English in defence of Catholike Religion in confutation of Protestant errors which himselfe before had held for verityes And thus much of the falshood of Maister Iewells wrytyngs wherof he that will see more lett him read Maister Hardings returne of vntruthes but especially yt would import him that hath learninge leasure and commodity to examine the quotations themselues by a good library but in this kind of false dealinge I can giue Maister Iewell a compagnion as good as himselfe yf not exceedinge him which is Iohn Fox who aboue all that euer wrote perhaps may be recorded for notorious in this behalfe I haue had occasion these monethes past to peruse a great part of his last edition of Acts and Monuments printed the fifth tyme in the yeare 1596. and do find it so stuffed with all kind of falshood and deceytfull manner of telling tales as I could neuer truly haue beleeued yt yf I had not found yt by my owne experience And I do persuade my selfe fully notwithstandinge all his hypocriticall words and protestations which are more and oftener repeated by him then in all the wryters togeather that I haue read in my life that there is scarse one whole story in that huge volume told by himselfe except when he relateth other mens words out of records and therby is bound to the formality therof but that it is falsified and peruerted one way or other eyther in the beginning middle or end by adding cutting of concealing false translating wrong cyting or cunning iugling and falsification which I do not speake for any tooth against the man that is dead and whome I neuer knew but in respect of truth only and of so many deceaued soules as are in danger to perish by his deludinge them Nor when I speake of Maister Fox his falshoods do I make accompt of any errors or ouersights though neuer so grosse that are found in him as to reckon some for Martyrs that were aliue at the making of his booke for this he excuseth in his later edition in that he was deceaued by false informations nor do I vrge that others are made Calendar-martyrs by him whome he cannot gainsay but that they were malefactors and some of them eyther madde or denyed Christ himselfe and yet placeth he them in his Calendar for Saints These escaped I say are not heere to be vrged by me now but rather in another place The points that I for the present accuse him of are willfull corruptions and falsifications that cannot be excused as among other things and for examples sake when he recyteth any point in controuersie of the Catholiks doctrine he putteth yt downe commonly in plaine coÌ„trary words sense to that which he must needs know that they holde and teach for so much as their publike books are extant in euery mans hands to testifie the same Of this kind a certaine learned student of diuinity brought to me of late 30. places taken out of two only leaues of Fox his booke to witt from the 12. to the 14. which I looking vpon found them all most euident by conference of the Catholike authors alleaged by the said student and moreouer besides these thirty I did discouer so many other plaine falshoods and manifest willfull lyes in those only two leaues as might well double the former number and I do offer to proue them one by one yf any frend of Iohn Fox will ioyne issue with me vpon this point And then yf by Arithmetique a man will multiply these lyes falsifications of two leaues only with a thousand and more which Fox hath in this last volume and will adde afterward to euery two leaues so many falshoods the number will rise to so huge an accoumpt as were a shame to sett downe and would much surpasse Iohn Sleyâ—ans Story in this kind though he be the Protestants Protochronicler out of which an eleuen thousand lyes were only gathered by the Catholike wryters of Germany And this is so much as for the present seemeth needfull to be said about this matter The end of the relation there followeth the defence A DEFENCE OF THE PRECEDENT RELATION against the shiftes calumniations and tergiuersations as well of the L. Plessis himselfe and some of his Hugonotes in France as of their Proctor O. E. in England The Preface concerninge the authority of the Actes sett forth in France THE former relation being sett downe wholy and entirely as yt was printed in the yeare 1600. though somwhere more explaned and towards the end made sâ—orter I am first to yeld a reason in this place why the passages or points accused of falshood that vvere handled in the conference ensue not heere as they did in the former edition wherof the cause is for that those passages indeed were neuer seene or viewed by the relator himselfe but added only by a frend as in the preface therof is signified according to his wrytten copy receaued from Paris which copy though it agree in truth and substance with the publike Acts themselues of that confereÌ„ce which afterward haue byn authentically 〈◊〉 sorth yet for that the points are not so cleerly laid open as some men perhaps would require I haue thought good to relate the same againe in this my defence out of the said Acts
themselues Concerning which Acts yow are to consider that about some two or three monethes after the said conference at Fountayne-bleau that is to say in the moneth of August wheras this conference was made vpon the fourth of May in the same yeare 1600. the Catholiks remayninge quiett and content with the victory of truth that had fallen out in their fauour Monsieur Plessis and his Hugonote Ministers hauinge departed and broken vp the said conference in the manner and sort which a little after yow shall heare and findinge themselues extreemely gauled with so dishonourable an euent resolued for some remedy to sett forth a certayne discourse in French without name of the Author the Title heerof was A true discourse of the conference held at Fountayne-bleau c. In which discourse they endeauoured to handle three thinges First touchinge the history of matters passed therin carpinge bitterly heere and theere both at the King and Chancelour and other Assistants Iudges as disfauourable and partiall in many points against them and their cause which is refuted by the defender to witt and B. of Eureux himselfe by the publike Acts and records of the conference and be the depositions of 200. persons as presently yow shall heare him affirme Secondly they diuised vpon better deliberation new defences for the points wherin they had byn condemned in the conference as both the Arrians did after the Councell of Nice wherin they were condemned and the Donatists after their conference with the Catholiks at Carthage and as euery man condemned at our English barres would do yf they might haue replyes allowed them after their condemnations The third point of euasion vsed by them is recrimination that is to say to shew that others also do falsifie besides them and haue vsed fraud in their quotations which though yt were true as in the particulars obiected is shewed by the defender that they are all false yet were it no honourable defence as each man will confesse And this is the summe of that discourse and the confutation therof Now then for so much as Plessis and his frends had published this false discourse yt was thought good by the K. his Councell vpon request of the Catholiks that the authenticall Acts of the said conference and all particularityes passed therin and taken fourth by seuerall publike notaryes appointed for that purpose before hand and one of them of the new religion should be examined anew vpon the depositions as well of the said notaryes as also of 200. more and so published to the world which was done and the whole presented to the K. by the B. of Eureux vpon the 29. of August in the same yeare 1600. which epistle for that it is short very substantiall I haue thought good to relate heere for a foundation of all that is to â—ollow for creditt of the Acts themselues Thus then he wryteth to the King himselfe that was present and an eye-witnesse of all To the Kinge Sire I would neuer haue beleeued that so publike renowned an action as that of the conference at Fountayne-bleau represented in one of the most illustrious Theaters of the world and adorned with the presence of your Maiestie of so many Princes officers of the crowne Counsellours of Estate and other Lords nobles of great marke could haue bin called in question or that any man could haue byn found that will dare to take vpoÌ„ him to peruert or disguise the knowne verity therof for which cause I haue abstayned hitherto to wryte any thinge of that matter least by publishinge my priuate testimony therof I should seeme to enfeeble the depositions of 200. persons of more authenticall creditt then myne owne but yet seeing now that Monsieur du Plessis contrary to the saith and witnesse of so many eyes eares as were there present and contrary to the testimony both of the mouth and pen of your Maiestie hath cast forth into the field a certayne new discourse wherin by his eloquence of Peâ—icles he will needs go about to persuade those that were present at the Conference coÌ„trary to that which they saw and those that were absent contrary to that which so credibly they haue heard I haue thought coÌ„uenient by your Maiesties permission to lend him the paines of a few dayes labour for settinge forth the true description of the fact it selfe as yt passed and therby to dissolue all his cunninge illusions and inchauntments Wherfore Soueraigne Lord I do offer heerâ— vnto your Maiestie the simple verity of the history as she lyeth in the Acts in her naturall white habyt without colours or paintings most humbly beseechinge your highnesse that yow will vouchsafe to see the same or cause yt to be seene and examined by such of whose wisdome grauity your Maiestie standeth most assured and yf it shal be found to be such as heere I do qualifie yt that then permission may be giuen to publish the same for a faithfull image and representation to posterity of that which there fell out And yf Monsieur du Plessis do hold himselfe content with that which passed in this conference he hath in his hands other 52. articles to be examined as the remnant of those 60. which were agreed vpon for the first Conference from which he departed without bidding any man fare well and hath had tyme inough since that to study better vpon them I for my part am ready to giue him the same exercise vpon the said articles as I did vpon the other 9. handled at Fountayne bleau and after these ended to come to the other that do remaine of the 500. falsifications which I haue bound my selfe to proue against him and so much the more willingly would I passe to the examination of those other articles by how much more graue the authors are and the matters more important his deprauations more enormous then those we haue handled as chosen out by himselfe and in the meane space I shall lifte vp my hands to heauen pray almighty God to continue his grace towards your Maiesty from better to better and to establish his Kingdome togeather with yours c. At Condie this 29. of August 1600. This was the letter and request of the B. of Eureux for examination and publishinge of the Acts whervnto the K. agreeing coÌ„mytted the reuew therof vnto certayne of his Counselle which had byn present at the said conference and findinge the same to be sincere and true in all respects as his Maiestie testifieth gaue order for the publication therof by his letters patents signed at Lyons in France the 22. of December 1600. Wherfore out of these acts as most true and authenticall I shall frame this my defence though very breifely against the extrauagant ouerlashings of O. E. in his answere who saith denyeth at his pleasure without authority wyttnesse reason or probability as after shall appeare by that which ensueth WHAT IS CONTEYNED MORE IN
Neyther was the law of Theodosius and Valens to be reputed new albeit the word humi had bin left out seing both Epiphanius and the Councell of Eliberis in Spaine and diuers other Fathers had condemned paintinge of images Thus pleadeth O. E. for his client but in such sort as I thinke verily heerafter few will entertayne him for their aduocate and though he thrust himselfe in as he hath done in this cause he wil be reiected and thrust out againe and barred of all practise as a puny pettifogger that doth more hurt then help his clients cause we shall make a few notes vpon this his answere wherby and by readinge the examen made before vpon this place in the conference yt selfe yow will easily see the vanity therof First then yt is false that Plessis alleaged Petrus Crinitus though he quoted his name in the margent there being great difference betweene allegation and quotation As all men know that are learned the text of Plessis went thus vvhat vvill they say to witt the Papists to the Emperors Theodosius and Valens vvho by an expresse edict did forbidd the paintinge of images Thus he did triumphe with the Emperors themselues in the text though in the margent he quoted Crinitus for his refuge when he should be pressed Secondly where he saith that Crinitus cyteth the law out of authenticall records and not as they are found now falsified by Idolators yt is a notorious vanity and this audacious Iconoclast should haue cyted some proofe out of some one author or other for yt and not so boldly of him selfe without all reason or authority auouch so vntrew a paradox Plessis himselfe in the coÌ„ference could only say that Crinitus alleaged them Ex libris Augustalibus out of the Emperors bookes which bookes the Bishop shewed euidently to be no other but the Codes now extant conteyninge the Emperors lawes and constitutions and this by the words of Crinitus himselfe referringe his reader thervnto Si quis saith he authorem desiderat c. Yf any require the author of this â— alleage lett him reade the decrees and Edicts of the Emperors gathered by most learned men Trebonianus Basilides Theophilus and Dioscorus especially vnder Iustinian c. Thus Crinitus of the Emperors constitutions Out of which he cyteth this law by memory as yt seemeth erringe as well in the Chronologie as also in the names of Theodosius and Valens who did not liue togeather nor made lawes togeather wheras he should haue said in deed Theodosius and Valentinian as also leauing out the words humi in solo And yt is a desperate defence of O. E. to call in doubt the truth of all the Emperiall lawes for this thousand yeares more gathered by Trebonianus and other learned men before named read in all schooles vniuersityes without note or corruption vntill now that this new academike minister O. E. will needs call them all in question and suspition so as nothing heerafter shal be of certayne credit And yf this had byn so as O. E. affirmeth that the Emperiall lawes had bin corrupted and that Trebonian that liued aboue a thousand yeares past vnder Iustinian the Emperour had puâ— in and put out and altered lawes at his pleasure was there no man to haue noted yt in so many ages before Sutcliffe Cuias a learned lawyer noted only that Trebonian by consent of the Emperour Iustinian changed the word crux that before Constantine signified a gibbett or gallowes in the old pagan Emperors lawes into the word furca But what is this that O. E. should say so boldly that he altered lawes at his pleasure but this is the spiritt of heretiks to bring all things in doubt to take away fidem publicam all creditt from all things but their owne sayings and then he that can talke most shal be most credible this is one ground of their new ghospell Thirdly wheras O. E. endeauoureth to tripp the Relator for ascribinge this law to three Emperours iointly Theodosius Valens Iustinian which Iustinian liued after the former two he sheweth more will then skill to be reuenged for as Iustinian could not make a common law with the former two Theodosius and Valens for that they liued not togeather so neither could the former two make any common law betweene semlues for that they raigned not iointly Valens being slayne a dozen yeares before Theodosius the first came to be Emperour wherfore yt is to be vnderstood of Theodosius the second and Valentinian the third and so yt appeareth by the Code yt selfe which Code for that yt was gathered by Iustinians order and authority beareth the name in like manner of Iustinians Code and by that reason this law also may be called in this respect Iustinianus Law and consequently O. E. was much ouerseene in running so hastily vpon the relator who yet was not he that did sett forth these particular passages in print as before hath byn said Fourthly I would haue yow to note the arrogancy of hereticall writers in conteÌ„ning learned men when they stand in their way as heer Trebonian Vir doctissimus saith Crinitus a most learned man that gathered the lawes togeather with others vnder Iustinian But what saith O. E. of him yow shall heare Neyther ys yt much materiall saith he yf Trebonian in the Emperors name had putt in the word humi for vve are rather to rely vpon the originalls them vpon Trebonians honesty c. Heere to say nothinge of the difference of honesty honour learninge dignity betweene Trebonian and Sutcliffe for that comparisons are odious I would aske what originalls are those that O. E. saith we must rely vpon Crinitus out of whome he would seeme to gather them saith as yow haue heard that they are the Emperiall constitutions conteyned in the Code and gathered vnder the Emperour Iustinian which constitutions haue continued now in diuers editions ouer all Christendome for more then a thousand yeares without any difference in this behalfe yea the edition of Geneua it selfe produced in the conference hath the text of this law as the rest with the words humi in solo The ancient commentaryes and Glosses also made aboue 300. â—eares past vpon this law as that of Azo Salicet others haue the same words and do note no difference euer to haue byn in this point Whence then or where are Mathew Sutclâ—ffes originalls corrupted as he saith by Idolators Crosse worshippers Crinitus is but a late writer and saith he hath none but out of the Code and these are all against the Minister what will he do or what shall we say to such people are not our poore deceaued contreymen in a good state to depend vpon these mens words and assertions in matters of Religion But let vs see the end of his defence vpon this place Neyther vvas saith he this law of Theodosius and Valens to be reputed new albeit the word
vvith falsification c. And vve vvill plainly proue that the Popish sect hath gained nothing by this conference but shame and confusion c. And finally saith he yf Persons meane to reply let him pull of his vizard and come barefaced into the field and he shall not vvant those that vvill encounter him c. Thus he as a cocke of the game that croweth when his head bleedeth and yow must further note that whilst he cryeth heere to other men to put of vizards and to come bare faced into the field himselfe lay yet hidden vnder the vizard of O. E. so as that which he reprehendeth in others he practiseth in himselfe which is the worst and weakest kynd of persuasion that may be Christ Iesus inspire his harte with his holy grace myne also to consider not so much what maketh for the maintenance of any part or faction as for simple truth wherby both of vs must be saued which saluation I desire to him as to my selfe and this is all the hatred I beare him notwithstandinge all his scolding with this would I end but that an others booke of his is come to my hands wherof I must say a word or two briefly in the next Chapter for conclusion of all THE CONCLVSION OF THIS TREATISE VVITH THE notice of another booke sett forth by Mathew Sutcliffe and the contentes and partes therof examined CHAP. VI. AS I was drawinge towards the end of this Treatise I had the sight of a second edition of O. E. his chalenge printed againe vnder the name of Mathew Sutcliffe wherby we see that now at length himselfe confesseth to haue gone hidden hitherto vnder the veyle of those two letters which he so much obiected to others for a fault in his wrytings I had heard of this new edition before but had not had the vew vntil now and I do thinke that yf the author had stayed a little longer and seene the answere that is now out against yt he would haue lost much of his appetite to publish yt againe but the cause of this hasty resolution was for that one E. O. opposinge himselfe to O. E. sett forth a certaine detection of diuers notorious vntruthes corruptions and falsifications found in the former edition of this vayne chalenge which so greatly troubled O. E. being otherwise cholerike impatient both by nature and custome as yt draue him not only to runne out of his name O. E. but neere also out of his witts right senses in diuulginge that which must needs turne to his vtter discreditt yf I be not deceaued I meane his former ridiculous chalenge very learnedly substantially refuted as I haue said by VV. R. therewithall this his new answere to E. O. who if he reply againe as I presume he will if the inequality of tyme place or contempt of the author do not let him he is like to take exceedinge aduantage against him as in part may be seene by that little which afterward I do examine out of the first two or three places obiected by him And wheras to make vp a more complet ostentation of defence O. E. turned now into Mathew Sntcliffe hath thought good to adioyne another supplement also of recriminations against diuers sorts of men this of all other things is like most to disgrace him when yt commeth to examinatioÌ„ for heere wil be fulfilled the poets sayinge Vana sine â—iribus ira much malice and little power all which will in part appeare by some short notes which in this place I meane to make vpon euery part of this worke which are foure to witt the Epistles and prefaces the chalenge renewed the defence against O. E. and the recriminations against diuers To begin then with the first part this whole worke is dedicated to Sr. Robert Cecill now L. Cecill but with what reason euery man will easily consider that knoweth the author and whome and what courses he hath followed and is acquainted with his speaches of him whilst his best maister was in authority For my part I refuse not the noble mans iudgement in this controuersie betweene vs of false and true dealinge for that I assure my selfe that howsoeuer otherwise in affection he may stand auersed from our Religion yet cannot his vnderstanding being such as yt is swarue in so euident a matter of fact as heere we are to handle Wherfore lett vs make yf he please the L. Cecill iudge and vmpire in this our contention de crimine falâ—i desiringe his honour to take so much paines as first to looke backe vpon that which hath hitherto byn treated about Monsieur Plessis and then to stand attent to that which in this Chapter we are to handle of Mathew Sutcliffe and so to giue sentence accordinge to his wisdome and verity of the cause One principall point in his epistle dedicatory as also in his preface to the Reader is extraordinary vauntinge as though no man could match him or durst appeare in his sight wherof you haue seene what cause hitherto he hath had shall do more heraafter I haue wrytten diuers treatisses saith he not only against Robert Parsons but also against Robert Bellarmine and their consorts the Papists yet do I not find any that dare incounter me hand to hand nor haue I receaued any answere to any purpose nor haue I yet encountred any that hath opposed himselfe to any discourse or argument of myne c. This to Syr Robert but much more earnestly after in his preface to the Reader Yf Persons haue not leasure to answere me let Garnet or Blacke well that are neerer supply for him yt is a shame to beginne a quarrell and to giue yt ouer first for one bout they haue no reason to refuse me Heere now I suppose my L. Cecill must needs smile to see the maÌ„ so earnest to haue one boute especially when he shall haue vnderstood that some fiue or six books are out against him vpon the suddayne each one of them geuinge him so many boutes as at length by reelinge the poore fellow is on the ground albeit I must confesse that Catholike writers are come now in such a loathinge and contempt of this mans works writings both for the vanity of the matter therin conteyned and perpetuall scurrility of words infecting the same as few are willing to leese tyme in answering him he bringinge nothinge commonly but absurd shifts foolish euasions old worn-out allegations of others and such excessiue turpitude of tongue as is loath some to any man to aunswere him wherof yow are like to haue some little last in this place as occasion is offered There followeth in the same epistle dedicatory another complaint apprtayninge to the same veyne of vauntinge to witt that Catholiks do now fly the mayne point of ioyninge with him and his fellowes vpon the triall of controuersies and do runne to trifles by-matters let vs heare his words My